Episode #59 - Interview with Jenn Mercier

[Music] From the chair that I'm sitting in in the IEDA Alabama Recording Studio, this is All-In Design. [Music] Hello and welcome to All-In Design IEDA Alabama's podcast. Thank you for listening. My name is Chad Moore, here with my co-host, Mark Griffo. Hey everybody. And it is June 15th. And so this is the first podcast past NEACON. Last two years we recorded ATTENIA CON. We did not do this -- we didn't do that this year largely because Mark wasn't there. I would appreciate you not having the show when I wasn't around. Yeah, I tried and it just -- I was missing something. You're a big part of the show, Mark. I appreciate that. But the person that's here with us today wasn't NEACON. So hopefully we'll get into some of that. Yeah, so you guys -- I'm going to ask you guys a bunch of questions about NEACON in design days. And then I'm going to let you guys talk and I'm just going to step out. Okay. So we could have recorded this at NEACON. You could have recorded this at NEACON. You actually both could have just recorded at NEACON. And you know, kind of does a misdemeanor. It was a misdemeanor. Yeah, it does me in the beginning and then at the end. Okay. Yeah, we could have done that. I am a little bit disappointed that we did not get a chance to record at NEACON because those were fun. But -- Also a challenge. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And kind of always very last minute in terms of planning. Yeah. Unlike our normal schedule. Yeah. Or there's at least a few days of planning. I mean, because this one -- this is actually the first one where it will be recorded on the day that it goes live. Yeah. When I say it's June 15 is literally -- It is actually June 15. That's never happened. It's a deadline. Yeah, sometimes it's been like -- And we're here. It's June 15th and it's really like -- We've recorded it. Yeah, they haven't said it several months prior. Yeah. Right. So, all right. Well, that said, without further ado, I am glad to introduce our friend and upcoming fellow board member on the side. Oh, yeah. So, yay. Jen Mercir. She is the director of Interior Design at Fifth Dimension Architecture and Interior here in Birmingham. Glad to have you, Jen. Yeah. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. Thanks for finding it. I will hand over the baton to you if you want to tell the folks a little bit about yourself, a little bit of background. Where are you from? Where are you from? Where are you from? Where are you from? Oh, you know, a little city. Also, I have Atlanta, you know. One of those? Yeah. One of those. So, yeah, I went to West Georgia in Carrollton, graduate with Interior Design degree in 2009. So, great time to graduate. It was perfect timing. Yeah. Yeah. Find that job, that dream job. Right. Everyone was hiring then. Oh, yeah. So, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do at always kind of like the architecture and interior design side. My parents built a house when I was in middle school. They bought the little program and enjoyed playing with it. Okay. I'm being architect. So, what did your parents do? They hired a home builder. Okay. I love the look at her face. She's like, "I love it." That's not quite what I meant by the question. What were their professions? Like the architecture and electrical engineer. Okay. Because that was like my parents designed and built our house. Yeah. So, they had to have a lot of control over everything. And we had a home builder who came in and kind of told him like, "That doesn't work. That does work." But they got to play around in all the cool little programs. So, of course, I enjoyed doing that. I thought I was going to go to Auburn, go to architectural school. But I realized, you know, I could probably get a full ride at West Georgia. So, my parents said, "Go there for a couple of years. Get your basic classes out of the way. Still was 100% sure why I wanted to do." So, I was like, "Okay, I'll do that." I thought about psychology for a hot minute. I realized I don't have the patience for that. And so, our school had. Yeah. Skip over that. That's a good thing that you had. That's a realization. Before you actually had the patience. Okay. Okay. Can we wrap this up please? Yeah. It's like I'm not cut out for this. Okay. Next. I'm going to make that decision what I want to do. I realize I also don't like math or engineering. So, let's try interior design. That's what I ended up doing. So, graduate tales of nine. We worked at Furniture for a while. And, of course, the market just kind of fluctuated for years. I started competing with those who had been industry for a while. They were just now coming back. So, I worked in a lot of different places. It was good and bad because I kind of got to figure out what markets I enjoyed working. And, you know, I worked for really small firms like four to a couple hundred people at the firm. This is all in the Atlanta area. It's all in Atlanta. So, I was all around the area. I worked for Custom Home Builder. I worked for Hospitality firm. And then I worked for commercial spaces. I did film studios, data centers. Kind of you name it except healthcare. And then my last firm is when I got into multifamily. I ended up loving it. And, some stuff went on. And, I was looking for a job. I was very lucky that I found fifth dimension within a couple of days. I interviewed. They hired me. And I was working in that Atlanta market. I was like, I am not leaving. Atlanta is where I'm going to be. We're going to grow that Atlanta Interior Design team. Fast forward to like a year. We ended up hiring like six fresh out of college kids who wanted to go to Birmingham. Not everywhere else. This is a big market for the younger generation. There's an article that came out not too long ago. That was starting up for an ambient. Yeah, a lot of Mississippi State. Yeah. We had one Sanford, Mississippi State. One went to Atlanta but just became a lot of travel. So, they finally wore me down and I moved here. Well, you're sick of. That's inspiring. They're like, come on, you want to move. I can't make me move Atlanta. I'm going to live my life right now. You're here. Yeah, and I love it. Well, that makes sense because when I first, I think, was when I first met you, was when I first started working at BI. And I do remember you being in Atlanta because we were like exchanging emails. And I can't remember, but I didn't know that. And I think I invited you to something or whatever. And you're like, yeah, thanks. I don't live in Birmingham. And then I guess it was like a little while later. I was like, she lied to me. She lied to me. Yeah. So, by the way, I moved. I think it was like three weeks when I kind of got the green light to move. Found a place. Moved. It was very, very quick. So, there's a while I was here. I'd have reps from Atlanta who had the market show up. Wait a minute. Right. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, I moved. I didn't have time to tell you. So, when you say data center, that's what everyone is like, saying to everybody who's talking about now. It's 18 T data centers at that time. So, we kind of did there. They have like the front of house where clients can come in and work. And so, we did that customer experience and prototype throughout the country. Okay. So, not the big like AI data center. No. Okay. We did the pretty front of the house. We lived all the tech stuff to them. Yeah. So, how did you get connected to Fit Dimension while you were in Atlanta? LinkedIn. Okay. They just posted a job of looking for a job. And I'll just, I don't remember. It was very quick. They posted it. Found it. They were looking for somebody to kind of come in and help build their interior design department. Because we really didn't have any interiors. And so, they knew I did that with my past two firms. And so, I was like, hey. We can hire you now. I was like, hey, because I don't have a job. You don't tell me twice. That works every time. Yeah. This is awesome because I am so unemployed right now. Yeah. It was like funny enough. I could start like last week. So, how long was it before then they hired six at a school designers? It was probably six months. It was straight. They went from zero to a bunch. Mm-hmm. Okay. It was me and one other girl at the time. And then we had somebody from Stanford who came in and turned. And then when she came back, we had a misd if you stayed. The entire time. Yeah. Yeah. I do remember that because it seemed like you guys raised an interior design department. Over night. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you went from like no one to like, oh, like, well, yeah, we call on fifth dimension. But like, you know, you got to call on like, you know, a couple like strategic principles. And then like, now it's an entire design style. Right. With a bunch of folks. Yeah. So, not really lucky. The other thing that was on your, you mentioned it was the film studios. What were you designing for them? So, we worked specifically when I was at the firm with Tyler Perry. Mm-hmm. So, anything that was at his for McPherson from the homes that he would film in to his actual film studios, to his offices, to renovations, new builds, everything. We were his architects in interiors. Wow. Yeah. He was fascinating. That's what firm was that? It was with GSB architects. Okay. So, they're known for like their kind of their film studio design. So, they've done obviously, it was a huge hub. Yeah, for sure. They've done a lot there. Did you ever meet Tyler Perry? Or did he ever come into the firm? I never got to meet. And there's one time where I thought I was. We prepared for presentations because he flew in. But they shut it down because Oprah was coming in. And we could not get on to the premises. Oh. Oh. Yeah. I'm going to stay in. But you went out to this. I mean, obviously. Yeah. So. It was really cool to kind of see the behind the scenes and what goes on to build and design a film studio. - I bet. - Like just the open stages and what you have to prep for so that they can come and build their own stage within it. - Mm-hmm. - Right. I saw a really great interview with him and I quote that I'm not gonna get 100% correct, but I'm sure he's probably said several times, but he's talking about building those studios and kind of his whole production team that's his. And he uses the analogy of, you know, the film, you just kind of the film industry historically and just being saturated and it's like, you know, I got to a point where I realized that there was no room for me at the table, so I built my own table. - Right. - And that's how he was like, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go do the damn thing. - Right. - Yeah. - And start, and start, and there's other filmmakers that have now kind of followed suit. - Yeah, he seems like he's done okay. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - He's still a little bit. - He's doing all right. - He was walking around. - He's no trillionaire, but he is probably a billionaire. - Yeah, he walked around in his mediacostum, which made him really tall. So we had to make sure that he could just walk through doors. All of our doors were taller, and they should be. - Oh, that's hysterical. - So when he'd walk around in costume, he didn't have to block every way. - How tall is he? - Tall? (laughing) - Let me time DB that. - How tall were the doors? Maybe because that's that question. Do you remember? - I don't. I think probably all like the typical, like probably eight feet, we would do the really tall ones. - Okay. - But yeah. - You know, he's a fan of this podcast. - Oh, good. - I assume. I just assume. - I heard he listens. - He is. - Totally. - Yeah. - He just makes it a really great face. Like, of course, Tyler Perry listens to us. (laughing) - Well, there's first time for everything. I'm gonna tag him in the post when we put this out. - Awesome. - We should. - Yeah. - So let's talk about Neacon real quick before the hour. - Yeah, let's talk about Neacon. - So yeah, I'm curious, 'cause you've been to Neacon before, and you said you think it was 2019? - Yeah, it was right before COVID. - Right. - The full market you've not experienced before. So I'm curious knowing, and it's a question I've been asking designers, is kind of what are their thoughts on the full market, the dynamic of having two different locations to go to, 'cause now it's not Neacon, it's Neacon, it's also Design Days, and now they're kind of dubbing it, Chicago Design Week, 'cause an overall thing. - Oh, I didn't know. - Yeah. - Yeah, it wasn't as crazy for us, 'cause when I planned it out, I asked where everybody was located, so Monday for us was at the mart. So we stayed at the mart, and then Tuesday was market. So it wasn't that big, I know a lot of people were going back and forth a lot. - Right. - I'm not gonna do that. - Yeah, especially open the routes. So Monday we spent at the mart, and then Tuesday we went to the full market. But it was really neat to see how they set it up, and how they transformed that whole area. - Yeah, it's fascinating, and it's kind of interesting to see where it's gonna go. So I really, and it's true, I think of both sides, the people that are in full market, and the manufacturers that are still in the mart, as to where things are gonna, if they're gonna continue to add more towards full market, or are we kind of getting to a point? I know, I heard Hayworth just signed a five-year lease at the mart, so they're staying, sit on its moving out of the mart. So that's a big one that's leaving. And I know that 11th floor, like the 11th floor, it used to be third floor, 10th floor, 11th floor, where the three show floors for the most part, was temporary space on the 7th, and then there was 7th and 8th, but now it's just 7th. But the 11th floor was mostly empty. - I was gonna ask that, 'cause I heard that this year was kind of half empty. - Yeah, there was a CFC group, so a couple of them had, they've had line on the 10th floor, and then they've got, I guess, a line that's up, maybe snow sound or something like that, on the 11th, and so they took the stairs to go from the 10th to the 11th, but unfortunately, that stairwell emptied out, into the empty area. - Oh, that was not a good vibe. - Well, they got trapped. - Because, I guess maybe that, 'cause some of those stairwells, the door walk behind, so I think the door lock behind them, they were stuck in the dead area, and the mart had built fake walls in the hallways to make it look like there's a wall with a door. - Oh, that's funny. - And so they were stuck, and they had to call somebody at Snow Sand, and like, could you figure out a way to get us out of here? (laughing) Is this Morgan and Matt? Is this who got stuck in the-- - Yeah. - Yes, it's a, I can't wait to see them. (laughing) - Well, I'm like, so how was your experience? - I heard you guys got stuck in a stairwell. (laughing) - That's good, great. - Yeah, and then talking to a friend of mine that's a rep, she was going back, and this was Monday, I saw her Tuesday morning, and so she's got lines that are in full market, lines that are in the merchandise mart, and she was like, I took eight ubers yesterday, just during the middle of the day, to go back and forth to the door. - Oh, man, yeah. - Yeah, that adds up. - Yeah, it adds up. And it's just, well, it's exhausting. Don't try to make it back and forth, you're trying to make appointments. So, I don't know, I think what you did, what most people are doing, which is, the state's dedicated to the mart, the state's dedicated to full market. - I liked how it was built spread out, because sometimes at the mart, if you're in the heat of it, you're just kind of crammed with everybody, trying to find your way, but that one felt like you had plenty of room to kind of see what was going on. - Yeah, it has, I mean, from most of my lines, they're in the mart. And so, what's been nice is that, because people do split it up, we haven't had quite, even though you're still seeing everybody, 'cause they're gonna come to the mart at one point either Monday or Tuesday, they're not all there at the same day. We don't have the huge crowds, you can still find an elevator, or get on an elevator if you need to. I don't know, that's kind of interesting. - And it's been a while, it's up in there, back at tell big difference. - Yeah. - And it feels like, closed in. - How was the weather? - It was hot. - Okay, yeah. I asked this for a very specific reason, 'cause I've said this now for years, that one year it's gonna happen, that it's just gonna rain the whole time. And then that's gonna really change the dynamic of how full market works. - There's been, there's been days where it's rained so far. Like where Monday was a complete wash out, and I think even, I think this year, I can't remember, there was a day where there was some rain, but it wasn't an entire day thing. But I know one of the years, there was a complete wash out on one of the days, and the people that were like, 'cause they split it up, and they made appointments for full market on, say Monday, and that was the day they got rained out. They're like, you know, and there was one year where it was just brutally hot. It was hot this year, but it was more humidity versus the heat. But the first year, one of our manufacturers has a showroom over there, and they'd moved over, and so we went to go see it, and it was brutally hot out, and their air conditioning wasn't working in the unit that they had. - Oh no. - Yeah, so inside their showroom it was like 80 something degrees. (laughing) - People walking in, they're like, nope. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. So it will be, and I think you're right. That's kind of the different between like an open air mall versus, and entirely enclosed mall. - It was just completely different experience for both. - Yeah, to me, it makes sense for the large manufacturers to be in a space that's totally theirs, that they don't have to deal with the mart, and negotiate every year. It's more of a space that they can use 24 set, or year round versus just during the show days. - Oh, for sure. - Yeah. - For smaller manufacturers, I don't think it makes as much sense because you're less likely to get designers just popping in versus if you're in the mart, and you go by a window and you're like, oh, that's cool. You might pop in there and check it out whereas that's not gonna happen at full. - Did you do anything fun, extra curricular while you're in Chicago? - Good. - Ducks game or? - Based on photos they did. - So mad that I'm a huge braise fan. How I didn't know they were there? I mean, again, I was trying to survive after my vacation and going straight to Chicago. - Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that too. - But-- - That you went from Tampa to Chicago. - Yeah. - Don't do that again. (laughing) - I was so mad that I didn't know they were there, but on Monday, after all of our appointments in the mart, we kind of chilled for a little bit and then we went to London House, the rooftop. - Yeah. - That's great to hear. - Yeah, that's good. And then on Tuesday, we were able to do the architectural outdoor. - That was a show, right? - And then went to dinner at Maxwell Trading. - Fivefold? - Oh, amazing. - I'm not familiar with that. - It's a call back at Maxwell Trading. - Maxwell Trading. - Okay. - It is amazing. How they recommend. - Okay, we got it to list. - Yeah. - Had you done the architectural outdoor before? - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, I had done it years ago. - Right. - Of course, but like, seven. - It's a win every time. Did you guys stay just on the river? Did you go out into the lake? - This time we stayed just on the river. Last time we actually went out. - Yeah, it was actually last year, and the many times that I've been lucky enough to go on the boat tour that I didn't know that there were options, 'cause it was either one, I wasn't paying attention when I myself was booking them or somebody else was booking the most just in attending, that there is the option to do kind of like a half river and then go out into the lake. - Yeah. - And the lake is kind of a whole different experience because you go out into Michigan where you get these really cool panoramic views of the city. - Yeah, that's what we did this time. It was on when they have like two or something volunteers, like historian, all that kind of stuff, you're tired. So it was really cool 'cause he knew just kind of everything and little like, just little bit of facts along the way that you probably wouldn't get on a normal tour. - That is really cool. - So I've only been once, and that was the weird knee icon that was in October of 2021. So in 2020, there was no knee icon in 2021. They pushed it to October. And nobody was up there. And so we're like, hey, we can actually like, leave the mart. (laughing) - No one's here, so let's go do others. - So we did the architectural boat tour and it was right, it was right at sunset. And that was phenomenal. - Oh yeah. - To watch the city change. 'Cause you know, going from, you know, none of the lights are on and then it gets dark and then all the lights are on and that was cool. And they go out in the lake, [BLANK_AUDIO] they're just gonna turn around and come back. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - But yeah, that was fantastic. - Yeah, that was really cool. - So there are any trends that you picked out like, it seems like whenever you go from showroom to showroom, and unfortunately this year I didn't get a chance to really get outside of my showroom. So, but sometimes it's either color trends or everyone's using the same light fixtures or they're using the same. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, we've met in this. - Second, that's our everywhere. - Yeah, there are a lot of trends, a lot of saturated colors. And there's a lot of purple too, and burgundy, a lot of botanical kind of themed throughout. So of course, a lot of greens. So we really caught on to that and Acoustics huge thing this year. We felt like everybody had something they were promoting for Acoustics. Obviously the panels are ceiling, flooring reps, like it was just kind of everywhere. So that's kind of cool. It was so quick, you're just running from showroom to showroom for everything. So it was cool to kind of step back and go, could you catch on that you noticed this kind of trend everywhere? - Mm-hmm. - You can take that back. - Right. Do you take notes or just take a thousand pictures? Like, what are you, are you to do neither? - I wish I was trying to survive at that time. - Yeah, she'd come from Tampa. - Yeah, let me remember this. - So what'd you tell people, you don't have to go into details of your personal life? But we've mentioned Tampa several times. So what happened before Chicago? - So my best friend turned 40. And so we went at Fleudown Thursday and his hung out and he just party it up Friday and Saturday, surviving on Sunday, flew straight to Chicago and, you know. - And straight, right? - Yep, straight to Neacon. I'm surprised I survived. - That's a lot. That's a lot. - Yeah. - I was exhausted. - Yeah. - But it was a lot of fun. I went and take it back. But next time I would probably add you know, a day of rest between four. - Or just don't celebrate the 41st birthday. - Yeah. - Just like look. - Yeah. - Like can we give you birthday up a little bit? - Yeah, come on. - Nobody cares about that. - Yeah, no one cares. No one cares. Yeah. - 45 and 50. Do it then. - Just ask to move your birthday. Can you just like have it at different time? Thanks. (laughing) - Did you guys stay in the city? Or did you stay over in full market? Like, hotel? - We stayed in the city. - Yep. - I don't remember what the hotel was. One of the ones Neacon recommended is really cute for tea and hotel. - You mentioned, yeah, because I think I asked that question. - Right. - It was great. - It was great. - It was amazing and Coagher was like, how did you find him? Well, on Neacon instead, okay, you're the closest. Not bad pricing. You're available. Done. - Done. Yeah. - That's how we book our hotels here, 'cause yes, 'cause full market there are hotels there. Some of them are kind of boutique, but also there's a lot of the manufacturers and their employees or the aligned dealers are going in nine, 10 months in advance and booking 24 room blocks in those full market hotels, 'cause they're not, since it's not part of air quotes here, Neacon, they're not in that Neacon booking system for the hotels. So, I was just curious, 'cause yeah, we've kind of moved around this year. We sent up very few people this year, just because our client list was a little low in terms of going up and then I went to Auburn and I'm sure that our two nights in New York had priorities. - I had priorities. - Right, you were planning on going. - I had bought a plane ticket. - Right. - Yeah, I was planning on going up Saturday and coming back Monday, 'cause I did not want to risk coming back into Alabama on Tuesday and then trying to turn it over to New York. - Fight the bays and they get down. - Right, yeah, and then I missed the whole thing. And then there was just, yeah, it was just, it was a little bit, just again, from our perspective, just kind of few people going. That's how we choose which ones of our salespeople go, is client base and firm based. We also had some people that were out of town as well. So, that were on vacation. - Right, that time. - So yeah, so it got to be about a month in advance and I canceled my plane ticket and was like, I'm fully committing to, like, just not gonna worry about this. - And I showed you, 'cause I ran into Richie, one of their sales reps here at BI. He had his paper list of where he was gonna go and what he was doing. It was just kind of, you know, which manufacturers and which reps and it was interesting. - It was the, it was like the Russell Crowe, beautiful mind, me and the Charlie Day conspiracy theory meme on the wall. - Just, I mean, just so much ink on one piece of paper and things scratched out in little notes this way and that way. And so I took a picture of him holding up and he's making a funny facial expression. But I was like, this is what happened when you're not here, 'cause Marx usually, yeah, Marx and Melinda coordinate things. I know where people are and I help coordinate, you know, rep visits 'cause we go up there and this is, you know, everybody's goal, but going up there with intention of like, these are the people that we're gonna see and we're gonna, you know, we're not there. I gave my same speech to the people who went up this year that, you know, you're not there to go to the 530 and you're not there to get up at 10, right? Like, you've gotta get up and be with people and go see our reps and go see the showrooms and go see our clients that are in town. And so even if they're not with kind of our main group, I still kind of have a feel for where everybody is at any given time. Like this year, like I said, we had three people this year last year, we probably had 10, right? And some of that's just like, okay, like we're gonna be here at the same time. Like let's go see Chad, you know, during this time. Yeah, and then you sent me the picture of Richie and it was just like what the actual-- - The everybody else knows you weren't going, are they just like waiting for you up there and you're like, oh, my bad. Hey, where's our dinner reservation? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I missed him, I feel like. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Were we staying? - Yeah, don't worry about it. You're on your own. - We do a verbo and so is a three bedroom that our reps do, which has been great. And I'm happy to report that the liquor that we hid last year was still in the unit. - Nice. - Yeah, have you heard about this? That he does this? - No. - Yeah, so we rent, it's, you know, a three bedroom condo. In essence, so as a kitchen, in a full kitchen, in living room, and so it's really nice for us as a group because it gives us a home base versus just a little, you know, a bedroom where, and especially if you get other people there, if you got multiple people, it's like, okay, well meet, you know, what time are we going to meet in the morning and we don't have to worry about it. Everyone's just in the living room, you make breakfast, what not. And so we all carry on. So if we have any liquor left over from our trip, you can't take it with you because it won't go in the bag. So we hide it knowing that we're going to rent the same place next year, we hide it in the unit. And so far, we're batting 1,000. - Good. (laughing) - So good. - Well now that this has come out, everybody's going to figure out where this beer is. - Right, right, yeah. - Like, there's free liquor in the cabinet. - Check all the, indexing crannies, you guys get banned because people are renting a unit and then tearing it apart, looking for half full bottles of urban. - And it's, they're always beautiful. It's always like you've got a beautiful view of balcony and it's a very nice entertainment space. - Yeah, yeah, it's nice to be able to bring people up if we want to just lead. Because in that happen this year, where Saturday night, Carmen and Lauren were taking Dia out to dinner and invited me, which was nice of them to do, but Lauren's flight got delayed. And so initially it was going to be a 630 dinner. And then Carmen was like, hey, can we push back the dinner a little bit? And it's like, sure, you know, she's like, maybe 730 or like, I was like, we didn't eat until eight last night before. So yeah, this is Chicago, it's nice. - Yeah, it's fun. And then it got pushed back to 830. (laughing) But the place was, it was two blocks from where we're staying. And so I ended up texting them and it was like, hey, you know, if you get, you know, in town soon enough, Lauren gets into town early or Dia or Carmen, whoever, welcome to come over and have a drink. And Dia was like, I'm on my way, you know, it's kind of like, I'll just, I'm already outside. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You think down. Yeah, so she came over and, you know, we just had a drink for about an hour and then walked over to the restaurant. So. - What restaurant was that? - That one was, oh man, I just had it earlier when she was talking about her restaurant. So it's like, yeah, I've not been to this one before and it's not coming to me. - 'Cause I tried it, it'll come to you as soon as we start recording. I try, every time we go, I try not to go to dinner the same place. - The Franklin Room, I think is what it was. - I think I've heard of Dia. - Yeah, the Franklin Room. And it's got a huge, huge, huge whiskey selection. Like you walk in the front door, whiskey bourbon. Like there's just whiskey and bourbon going down all the walls. - That's not where I met Aaron and I met you in lieu. - It's not. - No, no, no, no, that place was crazy. - Now this one is a pretty small. Like that one was massive. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - With cheap stools. - Oh, the war stools that ever-- - That's what you remember. - Was that for people? - Yeah, I want to furnish your people, but like-- - They weighed a pound at that. I mean, they were the lightest, flimsy as-- - These were like, team-oos stools. Like they weren't even like Amazon stools. - Yeah. - Before we sat down-- - Yeah, yeah. - Before my wife and I sat down, Chad and his brother were like, be careful. (laughing) And we were like, what, they're like, they're like, these stools are pieces of shit. And I'm like, okay, like, all right, did it. And I sit on it and I'm like, whoa! Okay, and it was a nice place. - It was a really nice place. - It was at the bar. - It was a danger. - Yeah, very-- - Very dangerous, yes. - Yeah, yeah. And they did, like they had no, I mean, they weighed as much as these microphones. Like it was just awful. - Right. - Yeah. - But yeah, there's just so many great places in Chicago that anytime anybody goes out to dinner, I'm like, okay, where'd you go? - Where'd you go? - Yeah. - 'Cause I want to go there next time. - Yeah. - All right, so maybe we should talk about-- (laughing) - We can talk about-- - No, we've crossed the icon up. We need to get in some-- - New con and design days, like I said, the starship. - Yes, it's right. - We weren't there this year. - I mean, we're half an hour in. So half the podcast. That's largely gone. - Scratch some of my FOMO-witch. - Yeah. - So what inspired you to become into an even very kind of good word that? (laughing) - What was my answer? - That was your parents designed and built your house with their own hands. - Yeah. - I did want to, I like to teach you in the electrical engineering. - One of the questions I do want to ask just because I've got a side story 'cause this is more about Mark and I than you. (laughing) - We're the show-tune. - Yeah. - We're glad to hear that. - Sounds about right. I have listened to the podcast before. (laughing) - Which was, can you share a specific project that was particularly inspiring for you? - Yeah, so at my last firm, I worked on a project, Stockyards and Nashville. And it was the first project that I truly was able to take the lead on. So that once stood out to me 'cause it was very unique as a multi-family that they took like this historic building that was really important to Nashville. So we basically restored it and added amenities. Private became town homes. Trying to figure out the history to a lot of research into it. They had this kind of cigar lounge where the men could go down to the basement. So we made like a speakeasy kind of club room down there. And then we added a new part off to the back that had all the multi-family rooftop amenity. So that one was really cool just 'cause I learned a lot. And my client, she was one that loved to push the boundary, which is kind of hard sometimes. And so she was like, well what's new? And they're ones that they sell their property too. So they're like, let's have fun with it. We're not holding on to it. (laughing) So what's cool and trendy? And what will sell? And so we were able to have a lot of fun with it and kind of push the boundaries on the design and materials that were used in the FFNE. So that one has always kind of stuck out to make some fun. - It's easy to do with the lead designer in that one. - Yeah, so I've always kind of, you know, an assistant or, you know, just kind of helping out. But this is the first one I was able to kind of step up. So it's always just stuck out to make 'cause I learned so much. It had so much fun with it. - Right. - I love my other projects, but that was the first one. - Right, the first one, and also, you have a-- - It's going downhill since then. - So much control for love. - Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm from Nashville originally. And so I remember in, I want to say it's like, it was either, it was probably early high school. So maybe I was a freshman or sophomore in high school. But there was a restaurant called the Sockyards in that area. And I remember going to it, you know, at that age, you don't pay too close attention to things. Like, I knew it was a fancy restaurant. It was a lot of wood paneling and whatever. And there was a celebrity that was in the restaurant called Minnesota Fats, who was a, and I didn't know who he was, but my parents, somebody, it was probably that, you know, maybe the server said something like, oh, Minnesota Fats is over there. And my parents knew who that was. That was a professional pool player that was well known. - Oh, I was going to go with like jazz musician. - Jazz, right, yeah. - So my memory of this, and I did look it up this morning 'cause I'm like, okay, my memory of this was that, there was this professional pool player called Minnesota Fats. My parents told us we should go get his autograph. And so we went over to get his autograph and he pulled out a stamp. And he stamped the autograph. And so this morning I looked up like, okay, is my memory correct on this? Was there a pool player named Minnesota Fats and is the stamp thing a thing? And absolutely was. So that he's well known for not writing his own signature, but having this stamp that he would stamp an autograph. And those autographs still are worth money, like $100 to $500, depending on what he's stamped. - What is that? - It's amazing. - Yeah. How many famous professional pool players? - That was another thing. - Definitely. - It was like, definitely. - I think autographs is the sign. - Definitely, definitely. - It's my hand's tire. - Yeah, definitely from another time. I think I can't win other pool children. - Yeah. - That's like one thing. - Yeah, I guess maybe their hands are, maybe holding on to, it gets, you know, their hands cramp up and then they can't. - Yeah, that's true. - I don't know. - I don't know. - Yeah, so that was my, it was my stock. - I mean, it's probably, I think it's the same place 'cause it was a restaurant before it closed down. - Okay. - Yeah, it's probably that. - Before you started, Fit Dimension, had you managed people before? - Yes, so the one where I was at the film studios and data center, very similar, they hired me to kind of start their interior design department. They had interiors, but not someone in house. So I worked, that's what I did. I kind of started their department and of course, one of those foxes in the market led me to my next firm and went our manager a lot to kind of stepped up and kind of helped manage it. - That's the time to do it. - Yep. - Everybody else, not it. (laughing) - I was looking the other way. - I mean, I never hear when to one step back. - Yes. - Just appearing to the bushes. - Yeah. - You mentioned, you know, the stockyards that they wanted things that were trendy and that was one of the questions was kind of, how do you incorporate and balance design trends with creating a timeless interiors? And I really enjoyed your response on that. Do you remember? - Yeah, I mean, what did I mean? (laughing) - Yeah, I had a client who kind of just told us about they're like, hey, this is way of subscribe to me. That's how I like to look at how you're doing your finishes and it kind of always stuck with me. That, you know, sometimes you do look at a client, they just don't want anything really trendy 'cause they're holding onto their properties. So I can five years, I don't want to tear out half of this because we picked a really cool color or all the flooring is really different. So there's like three kind of levels to it, the background, middle, ground and foreground. So when we're designing, we make the background just very timeless. So when we're showing our clients, we like, it may look really simple, but that's because we haven't added the layers yet. So your background is gonna be, you know, your main flooring, your all your walls, all the big elements that if you weren't to change it out, you'd basically have to like shut it down. - Right, so it's more of a blank canvas to be. - Yeah, so these are the parts that we're gonna keep kind of timeless that we think, you know, will really hold on. And in the middle, ground are kind of those insets that accent tile, maybe some accent walls, some feature lighting that if they were to replace it, you're just ripping out a backsplash, you're not ripping out an entire kitchen so you'd have these cool things. And that's what we'll do, you know, some built-ins, that kind of thing, but we try to layer it. And then the foreground is all the FF&E. Like what can we really add character to it? That again, five, 10 years of its new management company or if you wanna replace it, you're just replacing artwork or furniture or accessories. So when we're designing, we kind of take that step back and we're like, here's the background. You know, do you like it? We see this holding on, now let's add in their layer. And then as we start layering it, the clients kind of see, oh, we understand what they're doing. And so I've thrown everything out them once and all they see is dollar signs and five years. - Right, yeah. I just thought was a unique way of describing it. 'Cause we've had people in the past talk about, you know, keeping the bones of it timeless and then adding, you know, trendy things that could be replaced easily. But I don't think we've had anybody kind of mention it and kind of there's three layers and the kind of turn. - It's good people are gonna steal that. - Go ahead. - Way to go. - I don't remember her I stole it from, so we can just say that I made it up. - Yeah, what did you say that you did it? - It was all me, it was brain. - It was all you. - Yeah. - The other one that I enjoyed and your response was talking about budget constraints while still achieving a studying design and kind of how you all approach specifying products, but then also having a backup. - Yeah, so no first thing the client will say is we have a budget. - Right. - Or we're not sure what the budget is, but please keep budget in mind. - Right, yeah. - Yeah. - Okay. - Do you prefer the first one more? - No. - I feel like there's a constraint on it. 'Cause sometimes the client goes, "I really want this to be a feature. "We can actually spend a little more money." And so majority nine times out 10. They're like, "Okay, let's design the space. "Keep budget in mind, but we're not gonna give you a budget." And then we'll go through the process. So a lot of times I'll look at a project and go, "Okay, we can design all this cool elements, "but have a feeling if something was to be cut, "these items may be cut." So let's go ahead and have a backup option. So they can, if they start freaking out, the pricing goes up. It's in two years they're doing it. We have a backup option. And so a contractor coming going, all right, here's just the middle for the flooring that's already been approved, and it doesn't match anything. So we'll go ahead and have a backup to it. Or even talk with the client going, "Okay, well, what is your main priority?" 'Cause I do a lot of multifamily. So it's okay, the leasing, the club room, and let's start working our way out. So this is where we're gonna spend the money. So if you look at something, it's a really expensive back splash or light feature, we've balanced it out over here. So just wait until you see the entire design. And then we'll go through the exercise with you. - Yeah, I just, I like the idea of, 'cause in the furniture side, we'll see there'll be beds that'll come out where there's specs, and then they end up getting switched. And it seems like, you know, Mark, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like at times where there's this huge call for products and there's all this big evaluation over, you know, we're gonna use this chair here, we're gonna use this, the bid happens, and then whoever gets awarded it, and you start looking at the budget, and it's like, "Eh, you know, we gotta make changes." And a lot of stuff gets switched, that I don't know, it don't seem to really line up with what was originally specified. - Yeah. We try to work directly with our reps. Like that's always been my thing, is the rep knows more about their products than you do. So lean on them. And so I really try to get our clients and contractors to understand like we put their contact and their for a reason. So they've worked with us on the project. They've seen our vision. So you know, I have some right now going, hey, I got this email, they're swapping it out. Are you okay with it? Like am I okay to provide an alternate? - Right. - Like I think this will work better. Are you okay with that? I'm like, that's how it should work. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of times to your point, Chad, I think a lot of times that happens was when, not always, but when there's not a budget conversation. - Right. - And people were just like, oh, like okay. Or there's a misunderstood budget, you know. - Right. - Like we've got, I'm just making up numbers. We've got a million dollars to spend or whatever, if people were going in and they're building their bid package on that, or they in deferreds building on that, and then it comes out and even the clients like, oh, actually we don't want to spend a billion dollars. We want to spend half a million dollars. - Right. - And then, and then, - But the million dollars incorporated these other things that weren't just right. - Yeah, so now there's also this mad dash of like, okay, we're gonna swap this table for this table and this, you know. - Right. - It just, it never ceases to amaze me, even as I've been in industry now for 10 years as to how far along a project can get where things just all of a sudden start flipping. I mean, I know you've experienced your fan, we're like, oh, well now. I had product on there the whole time and then we get two weeks out from the final approval of the ink. - Swink, it's like, oh, yeah. - Oh, hey, by the way, Chad, sorry. - We had to swap them. - Yeah, it's like, oh, no. - No, this is getting in there now. It's like, what happened? It's like, wow. - You see what happened, what happened, what happened? - So I guess maybe what drew me to that was I kind of like the idea of in the bid submission that it could be, okay, this is the, this is what we want. But this is also, this is something that we know is a less price point, but still meets the kind of design that we're going for. We know it's not quite the same, but it's close enough and we know it's a little price point. So that the dealers, when they're doing the bids, they've got the two bids they are already. - Yeah. - And then once it gets awarded, there could be the conversation of, okay, well, in these areas, we actually, we have to, we really, if the client really wants these pieces over here, we can go to the B plan for those other products. But it's already worked out versus, the bid happens and then everything, it's kind of a mad dash to try to figure out how to do this as well. - Yeah, but I also have a little more control over that instead of it coming back. I'm like, okay, well, that gives us time to work with the rep and the timeline and make sure that, 'cause all the time the client doesn't see that, that their stuff is being vey, they just say, hey, we're updating the budget and then when they're not happy with their designs, what we're supposed to do. So having at the front end, having that conversation has been helpful. - What are the, you guys, I mean, we haven't specifically asked the question, but largely you do multi-taping. - Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna talk about fifth dimension. - So I'm not fifth dimension. (laughing) Hi, my name is Jen. - Well, let's go back to Neon, I'm gonna talk about Neon a little bit more. Favorite bar. - So a little bit about me. Yeah, so we mainly do multi-family, it's just kind of our bread and butter. We also do, you know, offices and hotels and like we did the battery over here, but our interior department is really focused on multi-family, because our clients, the word of mouth, were just, which is a good thing. That's how we grew so quickly was, you know, Dan's built this great company and so we were a little, you know, not sure if they were gonna keep the interiors that they were using, but when they came in, they were like, no, we left fifth dimension. You have interiors department, great. So all of a sudden we start having all these projects. They love us, because we're awesome. (laughing) - You know, we know. - Take notes. - We're in tech. - Yeah, we're amazing. (laughing) So. - Nice, so what are some trends that you see in that particular field, multi? - It's kind of been the same cookie cutter as far as leasing, you want the club room with the game. And so what we're trying to do is show the clients the new, you know, quote unquote trends. What we're seeing, what are their competitors doing? And it's hard when we come up going, hey, they're doing a golf simulator. They're doing a sport simulator. Wellness is a huge thing. So we see dry sawnas and cold plunges coming out. Instead of having like this big yoga, you can't do in the class, it's anymore. They're doing more of the big fitness and then they're doing like these wellness centers. Just because a lot of multi-family hasn't really built enough yet to have the quote unquote data for it. - Okay. - But we're kind of seeing pushing that boundary and of course co-working is now turned into a cafe and lounge. - Right. - People are still running. - A business center anymore. - We still have private rooms, but it's not, I mean, COVID changed a lot, but if people want to work, they can run out of private room or they just need to get out of their apartment. So it's more kind of a lounge set up to where they can, they can work there. But. - Do you, where are y'all's clients? Like, like, are you guys kind of work all over the country watching? - Yeah, we work all over. A lot in the southeast, I mean, we have a, you know, office in Denver and-- - Oh, I didn't know you had one. - Yeah, we have one in Denver and we have one in Austin. A lot of our projects are-- - You just real casually said that, too. - Yeah, by the way, we have one in Denver. - You do projects all over. Yeah, I mean, we got an office in Denver. - We have a couple of other office in Austin. - Yeah, we have one in Paris. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. - We're around. - We drove, we have one in Germany 'cause one of our coworkers moved over there. So we know we're overseas now. - Oh, no, we're now our license. - We're in Germany. - Yeah, we're in Germany. - We're in Germany. - A lot of our projects are in Florida. We get just our clientele down there. We keep doing a lot of projects. Caroline is a huge market and then Dallas has been kind of-- - So do you travel a lot for work? - I did. I traveled a lot, especially because my team is so young. So I was going to train them, thankfully. - Now they're trained? - They are trained. Now you to get to go adventure. - Yeah. Which one of your team is your favorite? - Good question. - And which is your least favorite? - Yeah, let me rank them right now. - Yeah, rank them. - Blind rank. - They're all listening, going, "What are you gonna say?" - Oh, they're gonna listen, for sure. Is this where we give Ryan Griefer, we gonna wait till we know each other? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Well, when I was like, "Hey, I'm leaving early today." I'm a podcast. He was like, "Well, I was asked first." Like, but you did not respond. - You were asked first, yeah. - Technically. - Yeah, we were trying to get one of your designers, Ryan, on the show, trying for months now. - Yeah. - I mean, - He's in months and months. - And he hasn't said no. - No. - Right, yeah. - Yeah. - He was falling on deadline. So I was like, "Well, I can move those, you know." - Yeah, yeah, that's right. - To give credit where credit was due, Jen was like, "I can basically make him go on the show." (laughing) And then Chad and I decided to pivot. And we were like, "No, we'll just ask you." - Thanks. - I feel so. - And we'll talk about him. - Yeah. - Yeah, we'll just talk about him. - You're not here to defend yourself. - We're just gonna assume he's at the bottom of the list and we'll leave it at that. So, I have a question about, and we're gonna bounce around a little bit, I'm sure. But like, so you're joining the I.D. board. - I am. - Are you excited about this? - I'm excited. I was heavily involved in I.D. - That's good. - The dance are good. - Oh, I forgot that. - Yeah. - So it's not new to me. and that's kind of where I really was able to kind of dig into the community and meet new people. It was just so much flux and I moved here. And so, it's like, you know what? - So four years now, you're like, I'm like, I'm from me to join the board. - Well, I tried last year. - Oh. - Oh, I know. - You say that with a little bit of a look. - Chad and I are not in charge. - Yeah. - Now, we're very low down on the I.D. board. - We are. - So this year, I guess, you know, just warmed down. They're like, oh, this girl again. (laughing) I just messaged everybody, hey, there's a nomination. Here's the link. - Someone's like, oh, she lives here now. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - She wasn't kidding. She really wants to do something. - Yeah. - What's your role going to be? - So I am a vice president. Like, oh my gosh, what's the direct title? Like the seat use. - Professional development. - Very young go. - Yes. - Okay. - Don't dwell so far. (laughing) - That thing. (laughing) - Wait, Emma. - How my name tacked somewhere? What does it say? - Is it official she's gonna be maybe we have to make a change before we end? - Is the official announcement that we voted on the slate? - Yeah. - Yeah, that one. - Okay. - Is it what was your role in Atlanta? What were you similar or different? - So I was on the committee for like all the events over there. So yeah, a little different. - A little different. - Yeah, but. - They got a little bit more people. - They do. - They do. - Yeah, it was a whole committee for everything. - Yeah, yeah. So I was part of Nikon. Go back to Nikon because I really want to go back to talking about that. I was up at CLC, which is the, I guess, chapter leadership conference, is what it's called, for IDA because it was focused on city centers and on VP of city centers. And so I got to go to that and did learn that we run our city centers totally different than everybody else in the country. (laughing) - Oh. - It's like, - Or better or for different. - Just for different. - Or for smaller. I mean, there was, I think there was another chapter that runs it similar to how we do it, but we almost run it more like those that don't have any city centers than those that do. Because other chapters are either much larger, like Georgia's huge, or there are multiple states. And so they've got these city centers that are really spread out. And so theirs is very much so talking about committees, they have these city center committees that do, and special events and CEUs all fall under city centers, like it's run by these city centers. Whereas ours is, we've got somebody that does professional development, so CEUs, we've got people that do the events. We've got a comms team that does, so it's kind of like we do, we've got these people that do things for the entire chapter, and then city centers, we've got it northern and essential, and we're there to kind of just fill in the calendar with things throughout, so that kind of keeps the cookies of community together, it was kind of the idea. But it was different 'cause they'd be like, all right, we're now gonna talk about committees. I'm gonna be like, great. You guys knock yourselves out. You know, we do, we call our committee the board. I actually ask, so do we have a committee and I think I blanks there, and they're like, oh no, it's you, and you have somebody, and I was like, oh okay, awesome. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did speed dating, it's very intense, the whole thing's very intense, and so this is Saturday. Dia met me, it was just Dia and I that were up there, and so she was very nice. I'd heard from multiple people that the coffee at IED had quarters is terrible, and so the night before, it's like, yeah, yeah, we're in travels. So Dia had the night before, it's like, what coffee do you want? I'll pick up coffee, and I'm like, this is great. So she gets my coffee, we meet in the lobby, we go upstairs, Cheryl kind of kicks it off, welcomes everybody, and then it's speed dating. So Dia and I are moving from table to table to talk about city centers, and after like the first table, we're like, we do this different. You know, so we could go to the next table, and it's like, all right, the new topic is this, it was still city centers, and it was kind of like, all right, before we get into the conversation, this is how we run things. (laughing) Before we get too deep. And then we broke out, after that, it was some individual, like the discussion groups, like, it was this big group. I each, you counted off, and I think there were probably 10 different groups, but you'd go off to a certain area, and then you'd talk for 45 minutes on a topic, and then you'd talk for another 45 minutes on a topic. But again, it was a lot about the committees and things, so it's like, I have not talked less in a group. (laughing) - Which is unusual. - Yeah, and it's taking a lot of time. - Yeah, I was, I pretended I was writing a lot of stuff. - Yeah. - This is really great. - Yeah, you're just not applicable. - Smiley face, Smiley face, Smiley face. - Are you taking Mary Whitney's spot, or are you gonna be working with Mary Whitney? - Yes. - Okay. - I'm taking her spot. - Okay. - So. - You're gonna be easy. - I know. - Yeah, yeah. - 'Cause you see, coming from Atlanta, you were like part of the Bob Awards, and you're like, - Yeah, that was what, all those, - All those big ones. - All those big ones. - Yeah. - Yeah, the Bob Awards was one of the last big ones I did. - So this should be easy. - This is so easy. - Yeah. - So easy. Thankfully, they were very organized. So they had like a lot planned out for the year. I was like, well, just, will you just send me that information you already did? - Right, yeah, well, so the first six months are set. - Yeah. - Yeah, and then I get, you know, a shout out to Mary Whitney. She's done a great job. - Oh, for sure. - And we have a board meeting every month. And she, usually she talks, like each one says a thing, you know, we go through the different positions and they kind of give an update what's happened last month. She usually talks, like talks the longest 'cause she's got like, it's huge. All right, we got this thing, we got this thing. So she's done a phenomenal job. And then it gets to me and I'm like, yeah, I mean, the podcast, and then I don't know, I've got a couple of things and it gets to mark marks, like no updates. - Even shorter than the EP of Web Applications. The website still up. - Yeah. Well done. - We're good. - We're good. - I did want to ask before we get towards the end here, so your job, as you've written, is to guide, teach, and encourage your team. So I kind of wanted to point that out and then ask what advice do you have for upcoming designers? - Yeah, so I think my way of imagining, I mean, I've kind of been around a lot of different places. - I've been around. - I've been around. - Her best friend just turned 40. - Yeah, I'm tan-bottom. - Yeah. (laughing) - I'm a little bit more than she hurriedly. We kind of like, you all get edited out if you're graduated, right? People don't have to do the math. - No, yeah. - No, no, no, no, no. - Thank you. - What's gonna snap? Nobody else is gonna say you have to. You know one does the math. - That's right. Remember that's why I picked a tier two. I don't have to. - No one does the math, no math. - But my big thing was I don't want to be a micromanager. I don't feel like, I mean, everybody learned a little differently, so it was what's their best way of learning and kind of letting them figure it out and finding their own way has been, I mean, I think successful. So far my team has grown a lot only being there three or four years. Like they are managing their own projects and I just end there for support and checking in with them. So I just find that that's been really helpful, especially with my team coming out of colleges being there as a source to help. And they always do like three projects or three site visits, the first one, I'm teaching them. The second one is kind of half and half. So they're taken on task that they feel comfortable with and then third one, I've taken a back seat. So they've kind of seen the progress and have it under their belt. - I'm getting a whole system there. - I do. I've been around for a while, so I figured it out. - Yeah, I graduated in 2009, so that's it. - No, thank you. (laughing) - Just for those who forgot. - Yeah. - I'm gonna get my calculator. - Yeah, thanks. (laughing) And also the five year college that was just not doing the math. So, but you're telling them, it's not the end of the world. Like don't stress out, timelines change, it's not gonna be, and they come in, they want a strict schedule, they want to know what's happening. And so it's just being really fluid with it. - Flexible. - Yeah, what works best for you as far as let's send an internal deadline for earlier and just learning to be flexible with it and just kind of go the flow and understanding that, again, it's not the end of the world. - Right. - You know, we're not surgeons. It's important in our job, but it's okay. - Right. - Yeah, nobody's gonna die with it. - No one's gonna die. - Yeah, no. - Hopefully. - Yeah. - Hopefully. - Things have gone terribly wrong. - Yeah. (laughing) - Do you like living in Birmingham? - I do. - It's grown on you now. - It has, when I go back to Atlanta, I don't realize how stressed I was. I always joke. - Yeah. - I would talk to you, my parents in the way home, sometimes, because you know, you're an hour from everywhere in Atlanta. - Right. - So I'm like, okay, it's a perfect time. And eventually my mom had to say, I gotta stop talking to you. 'Cause I'd just be talking to her and now just start yelling and get angry at the driver in front of me. - Okay. - Yeah. - So let's go now, I just like, I can't your stressing me out. Like, how did I survive? - Do you go visit very often? - I do. I go back a lot. My parents are in Carrollton, so it's still like halfway. - Yeah, I was gonna say, it's on the west side. So yes, it's not bad. - Yeah, it's not bad. - It's not bad. - But my dad's whole side of family lives here, he grew up in Birmingham. So it's not like this huge new city. I have a lot of cousins and ancestors here. - So the move over here wasn't a huge deal. - No. - It really wasn't. I was still close to it. - Only when she thought Atlanta was gonna be her forever. - Yeah, you could not. That's the first thing you cannot make me leave. - I'm never gonna leave here. - No, I'm gonna do it. - Yeah. - Surprise. - As we hired 621 year old. - Yeah. (laughing) - We need you to make sure. - That sounds almost like I'd be a deterrent to move. - Right, yeah. - Well, I was so stubborn that I would drive to Birmingham a lot, maybe twice a week. - Oh wow. - I spent a day in the office and go back. I was like, you can't make me move. I'll drive. That go really fast. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're still yelling at me. - Did you rationalize it? Well, normally it takes me an hour to get home. Anyway, so this is not, it's twice as much maybe, but not too bad. - I was like, you know, I have my whole community back home in Atlanta. So I would just like, like, I'll just drive. And yeah, but I do. - Here you are. - I know. - Yeah, building a community here. - Birmingham is better for you being here. - I'm less stressed. - There you go. - It's great. - Good. You haven't yielded us once. - Yeah. - No. - Yeah. - Still early. - Yeah, yeah. - Let's get to these rapid fire. - Let's get out of here. - Time is up. - This is a new goal. Let's have the guests yell at us during rapid fire. (laughing) - Let's see what you do. - Yeah. I've been writing down things that'll push your buttons. - Yeah. - Yeah. - How can I tick her off? (laughing) - All right. - This is an rapid fire question, but what ticks you off other than traffic in Atlanta? - Sure sounds like a rapid fire question. - Yeah, I know. - This is me slipping in a bonus question at the start. I mean, as a guest, 'cause traffic is on top of my mind, like just get out on my way. And the people cross, they cross, like when they're crossing, knees adjust. I need you to move. - Knees adjust. - I need you to move. - Wow, you man. And you know she said this out loud in her car. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Oh yeah, I saw it like some like video popped up and now I say it. Like, come on. - Knees adjust. - Hey, knees adjust. (laughing) - What is she talking about? - Yeah, my dad said you get double the points for hitting a moving target. So you know, they better move fast. - Okay. - Okay. - Okay. - So you got it from your dad. - Yeah. - Got it. - Okay, rapid fire question. - You're going to start the two-star minutes. - You start the minutes. - All right. Okay, so what was your favorite joke from the Nate Vargasy show? - Oh my gosh. I love everything about it. him. I don't know if there's a certain joke that I could remember. Yeah. I was crying, laughing so hard through the entire thing. He's just so fun in his deadpan face as he tells a joke. That's relatable. Yeah. We were there. I was with my parents and my brother and his wife and my wife were there. But my parents were, they're both in their 80s and so they were in the handicapped section but right behind us. So we got seats for them and then we were in the row right in front of them and Nate went on this whole thing about aging parents and putting them in nursing homes. It was a little uncomfortable. Don't trip in front of anybody because they would get sent to the nurses very quickly. Yeah. They were like, as an older brother, you're like, just keep it together until they believe the house. They're gonna start looking like separating plates and seeing who takes what. That's great. I once, have you ever seen the show? Well, Book of Mormon is one. Right. hilarious. There's another one. Oh my god. And now the name's gonna escape me. But it's a off-broadway puppet show. Avenue Q. Oh yes. Google Avenue Q. Don't Google it in front of your children. Right. It's an off-broadway show. It's hilarious. Melanie was part of it. But I think, yeah, I think John Melanie was part of it. I love Big Sus Dareville. But it's absolutely R rated. Right. And just speaking of seeing shows with your parents, is that two of my most favorite memories in the last say 10 years are going with my parents to see the Book of Mormon and seeing Avenue Q and hearing my mother, preacher's daughter, high school English teacher for 42 years laughing her ass off at the jokes. It's just great. Yeah, there's Jake Jones Hall was had a part on that show. Yeah, which you should Google. It's pretty fun. It's great. So Avenue Q. Anyway, I have a design related question. No. That I just. Oh yeah, I got. Okay. What your go-to move when a project starts going sideways? Me other than cry in the corner. Cry in the corner. Rapid fire answer. We were looking more for dance move. What's your go-to dance move? Is this slow like, was it? We walk back or just go all out? Move back or just go all out. That's why I trained my team so they can handle it. Yeah. That's like that. You're right. Yeah. The given, Simpson just going back and doing the project. Yeah, perfect. That's my answer. Okay, that's a good answer. You've got a three-day weekend. Where do you spend it? Home. I am a home buddy. Okay. So I like having stay-cations. I know that's probably the most boring. I do. I'm trying to play in a big trip this year. Okay. We're at two on top of Tampa, Chicago. Yeah. Well, I was supposed to go to Greece. That didn't happen. So hopefully next year or two will happen again. We were looking like Puerto Rico because it was my 40th this year too. So I kind of wanted to do something. Do the math. Yeah. Don't do the math. There's a math before, yeah. There's a math there. Yeah. There we go. It's okay if she tells her. Yeah. It's not. No one else could say it. Or people figure it out on her own. They can't figure it out on the run. I think it's really what she would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I just am an introvert at heart. So sometimes just five or three days, I just want to be home and just chill with the dogs, go to pool, just kind of stuff. What's your actual birthday birthday? Yeah. Like actual date May 14th May 14th. Oh, so we're right around. Wait. Fortyth next year. Wait, what's today? Your birthday is May 14th. Yeah. I already had it. So you just turned 40. I missed that whole part. I thought you're saying I'm turning 40. No, I turned. Well, I was turning 40. So we had planned this picture. I got your okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. What's the thing? And you had not yet had your well happy, belated 40. Yeah. Thanks. I'm in denial. It's okay. Mentally. I'm in my 20s. So I'm just staying there. I had a conversation today with all my coworkers about that like we just assumed that like we're still in our early 30s. Oh, yes. Yeah. Mentally. Mentally. We're there. Yeah. Until you know, Tampa, then Chicago. And you the body. The body does not hold up. No. Your things don't happen. You're like, what the hell is this? What is this about? Yeah. What is this about? Why can I not read anymore? I can't see any of these words. What do you do when you hit a creative block? Take a step back into the bushes. I'm doing a lot of bushes. Again, I've trained my team here. Yeah. Ryan. Yeah. Mine. I mean, really just take a step back. Sometimes what I'll do is just kind of clear out what I was working on. Just have a fresh slate. I'm working on a floor plan. And I'm just stuck or something. I'm just going to change it. I'll kind of just save it down and just start fresh. I'm just hindering myself. I knew I can come up with. So it's kind of like just taking a step back. Switch gears a little bit. Give your mind a reset. Yeah. Right down. Start over. Yeah. Delete. I start. I delete everything. And then I moonwalk out. That's what Jenny said. All right. Mine and I did write this down, but you just kind of referenced it a little bit. Pets. What's you got? I have a toy Australian Shepherd. Type her. They come in lots of sizes. There's Australian Shepherd. Yeah. She was supposed to be a mini. So about 20-ish pounds. She is 13. Okay. Okay. So I had to all the one I got her. They were the same size. So I have her and then I have a golden doodle. Okay. Twilight. What are their names? Twila is the golden doodle. Okay. And then Piper is the toy Australian Shepherd. Nice. Yeah. So David Piper. Yeah. Just something we said. Well, well, 13. She likes to kind of mean I'm sitting there and have like my arm rest. And she's like, how do I get from here to here while she's on a video call? You know, just cross. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Does she try to hurt you or Twila? She tries to hurt me. She's like a little velcro. So she'll I'll be walking and she'll keep like touching me. Like, okay, let's go. Keep going. Keep going. She leaves the 83 pound dog away. Oh, that's fine. Yeah. I was like, don't come over here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a good buddy who he had a I guess it was a mini Australian Shepherd. She was probably about 25 pounds, I guess. Maybe between 25-30. But she yeah, we used to joke that we were her sheep when we all went to the lake is that she was she would keep an eye on us when we were off the house. But if you went out to the dock to jump in the water, she lost her mind. I mean, when she were in the water, she was like, now you're on your own. Like literally look at you. Like she wouldn't bark or cry or anything like that. But that moment leading up she and she knew what was going to happen. You were going to jump off and she was like, no, it is my job to keep you from not doing that. And then when you're in the water, that is an anxious life. You're on your own. Yeah. She is a me colored derpy. She's just a special one. But yeah, the minute you make any sound, she's up and looking at you. Okay. And then Twilight just does the rain. It's like yeah, all that breeding. I was just like, I'm going to hurt and I don't have sheep. So I'm going to hurt my people. Yeah. Yeah. You are my sheep. Is it on me? Yep. What's one chore you weirdly enjoy? I guess because I lived in the city so long, I like yard work. Okay. I didn't have a yard for you. I like my home yard work. You want a side hustle? So I live in a really small house that you know from the time I pull my car out of the garage to get my loan route, cut it, move the car. It's like 15 minutes. Okay. So by the time it gets too hot, you know, right? Like now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My neighbor ended up cutting my grass because you know, it says, you know, like I started her home kind of thing. So when he cut my grass, there's like clear line. So sweet bud. He just cut the rest of my grass. Oh nice. So when I was like, thank you. And he's like, well, it's getting pretty tall. Oh. No, like nicely, like he'll do that if he's putting it because the future way we'll get onto us. No, he's like, just get a little tall. So now you just have the other side of the yard. I'm like, thank you. But now, because he listens to the podcast, he's going to learn that you love doing yard work and you for tonight. Yeah. He's like, you know, you cut my grass. Or yeah, I was going to say, or like, why don't you cut his lawn? Yeah. Yeah. Well, he keeps his yard. Yeah. Sounds like it. Yeah. I told him I said, why drive by now? It looked pretty high. I was like, I'll get to it. Now I keep sure you're well played. Yeah. Well played. So what is something that you do well that most people would not know? Like what's a sneaky skill you've got? Sneaky skill. Um, Irish exit. Again, moonwalk. It's always a moonwalk. I'm a introvert. So yeah, it's an ongoing joke. Um, but, you know, it's my best friends that they had to keep an eye on me. Because I think it's important though the night they're like, okay, she's going to disappear. Yeah. By K, where are you? I'm in my Uber. Oh, you're like an Irish exit. This podcast story. You're about to find out. We're winding out and be looking at Chad. It's just to be like the sliding glass door swinging even though it's a slide, but it's funny or if it swings. Um, if you could master one skill instantly, what would it be? One skill. I would love to be able just to cook. Yeah. I do Hello Fresh. And I'm good at that. because it gives you the exact ingredients. instructions. I would love to be able to cook and bake. Yeah, like one of those people that's like you just open up the fridge and the thing is what I have and this is what I like. And we didn't have any of this so I substituted this instead. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it ticks me off when you know I feel like everybody but me knows how to cook and bake well. And they're like oh yeah I just tried this out you know just found some things like I've fallen instructions and it blew up. Right. I don't know what you want me to do. In the kitchen conflire. I caught my checks mix on fire. How? That's the question. Wow. I know. Is this a true story? Oh, it's true story. Yeah. It's having a Christmas party and it I don't know how but I guess I wasn't paying to turn it. Or making checks mix. Just regular box ingredient checks mix and they're like you're something smoking. And when I didn't hit my checks mix on fire. What was it doing on the stove? No, it wasn't the oven. It was in the oven. And I guess I just ignored it through. Do you heat up checks mix? No, I'm where you are. I'm with you. You never made checks mix. I thought you just bought it. Yeah. And it's called checks mix. It's a box that says checks mix and you buy it. You can buy all the ingredients and then you put like butter and that wish to try that sauce. Yeah, wish to share. Sure. Sure. Sure. Like garlic and like onion powder and you kind of yeah. And then you had to like the new burn it. Yeah, you're supposed to code it every 15 minutes for a little over an hour. Do you now just buy it out of a box? No, I still cook it. Yeah, I just make sure that I set a timer. I'm gonna Google this later. Yeah. I mean, you can see where it could be. That's made that's probably where checks mix came like what we consider checks mix, which is in a box. Yeah, you just open the box and you don't have a whole lane of all. Yeah, no. German dish. I don't know. Okay. Live with love and a little bit of neglect. Yeah. I think it's like a first time making it and like, well, this is not setting a good present for what's going to happen. This is why all my family members make it and they send me home like zip lock bags. I can do it myself. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Outside of checks mix, what's your favorite comfort food? I love anything dark chocolate. I mean, yeah, it's like dark chocolate covered almonds dark chocolate playing dark chocolate. Don't don't put it on anything else. Okay. Okay. Like how like what's the percent cow? Are we talking? Yeah. The highest. All of it. All of it. Yeah. It's just a guilty pleasure. I have tons of dark chocolate and I'll just you know I hide it. And then I'm like, for me yourself. Yeah. I'm like, I'm going to get into the pantry. Out of my mind. Like, ah, I hit it back there. The last time I was a little too. Okay. She did. Another thing. I'm loving this. Open up the dry. Mix was on fire because I was a dark chocolate. The fact that it's like a tree. The last time I was in Chicago, I got gifted some dark chocolate. Because apparently there's a chocolate here there. And there's maybe one. I mean, or maybe more than one of the Chicago because of Chicago. But it was a bunch of like dark chocolate. I can't remember what it was called. But it was delicious. Before I'm Mike's were talking about work today. And he asked me the same thing. They're like, but this has you know, like 60% dark chocolate. That's not that. Like how much is like 99% like how much can you go? Yeah. That's what I want. Okay. I actually don't know if I've ever seen it more than 90% of the two things that I think she finds a source. I'll let you know. I'll report back to you. Yeah. It's street chocolate. I got a guy. I love Atlanta. You know, that was what I thought a guy. Yeah. I bought it in that alley. In fact, yeah. Back alley somewhere. Do I have one more did I use up my time? No, it's yours because you did that. Yeah. Extra one at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Extra. If your friends described you in one word, actually feel like I know what the answer is going to be. How can I switch it to the answer? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is fun. It's like this one's like if your friends described you in one word, what it would be. Actually, I mean, they probably wouldn't describe you as an Irish Exeter or an introvert. What would they? Yeah. I mean, my best friends, I can just talk your ear off. And so I'm really loyal. I guess I could say that. Like, I guess because I'm such an introvert. Like I, you know, when I have a friend or best friend, I, you may go to Tampa before you have to go to Chicago. Yeah. And I mean, she was like, I was so proud of you. You stayed out the whole time. It was at her cousin's house. It wasn't for somewhere. Just stayed the whole time. I was like, I know. You're like, yeah, don't live here. I actually looked at there. Like, please don't Irish Exit out. You don't know me. Are you right now? I'm in Birmingham. Yeah. I'm standing in the yard. Yeah. Yeah. Loyal is a good answer. That's a good answer. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Well, so we usually finish the episodes with a custom song. So I need a genre of music from you. I really want to pick something and make, see what you can do. Pick like a Disney. Disney. I get Disney. Let's see what you come up with. Like Disney. But I also love Disney. Yeah. Alamun can, you know, the main composer. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, 40 Disney movie. And I, I wrote down, I did write down as far as the hooker that would be moonwalk into the bushes. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Oh, man, I can hear like, I can hear the like hookahana song melody with moonwalk into the bushes. It's going to work. So to close out, I do, since this will watch actually on June 15th, but later the day. Later that. Yeah. This is the pre-midnight drop. So I did want to just remind everybody that this Thursday gallery services is Mark's birthday party. Yes. Otherwise known as battle of the brushes. Oh, yeah. That's going to be going on too. Yeah. Ida events fundraiser. So please come by if you can and have fun there and wish Mark a happy birthday. But thank you so much for coming on. Really. I do it. It's not scary as I thought. It was, you thought it was going to be scary? Yeah. No, it's going to be fine. You should go back to work until Ryan, then it was terrifying. Yeah. I'm like, we talked about you. Oh, he's going to be terrified. Oh, no, I should. Yeah. I figured it out the number of times we've given him grief. And I'm like, Oh, Chad, I think he actually is really nervous. Yeah. Oh, no, he is. We're harmless. We don't try to like make you cry. There you go. We want the person to be honest at the end. That's a new thing. Yeah. We didn't quite do it. Yeah. Thanks. That's because she's already left. Yeah. Yeah. We just talked to ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks again. Thanks, Jen. Yeah. Thank you. Perfect. When I was young, I dream of all the places. Rooms filled with stories and familiar faces. Now I spend my days helping visions come alive. Building little kingdoms where families can thrive. I move and walk into the bushes when the answers aren't in sight. I slide away for just a moment. Then everything feels right. I move and walk into the bushes where the smile and a little sway. Then I come back with a brand new plan to brighten someone's day. The stockyards down in Nashville was my very first big chance. My first design lead project and I learned a little dance. At fifth dimension, every door can lead somewhere new. Creating homes and neighborhoods where dreams can wander through. And somewhere Ryan's moon walking into bushes of his own. Whenever podcasts invitations find their way onto his phone, we know he'll make an appearance when the stars all align just right. Until then we'll keep a microphone ready and hope you'll see the lights. So moon walk into the bushes when the road gets hard to see. A little bit of wonder makes the world a possibility. Moon walk into the bushes then come dancing through the door because every great design begins with believing there's something more. Moon walk into the bushes and discover what you're doing. You're looking for