Episode 529: Should Your Gym Have a Free Trial? with G.R. Hoff

[MUSIC] Welcome to the Business Futuricorns podcast, where we help Jim and studio owners create a business and a life they love. I'm your host, Michael Keeler. Join me and the Business Futuricorns team each week for actionable advice, expert insights, and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym. Get ready to unlock your potential and become a real unicorn in the fitness industry. [MUSIC] Hello, fitness business nerds. What's up? Welcome to another episode of the Business Futuricorns podcast. I am back on the podcast again with a guest who's no stranger to this podcast, but been back on before. He'll be on again and again, I'm sure. It's Mr. GRHof, founder of Jim Member Machine. Welcome back, sir. How are you? We're just doing amazing, living dreams, and everything else. Everything's incredible. I appreciate you having me. I love having you on the podcast. Not only you're a fun dude, I could officially call you that with a lot of confidence. You're a fun dude. We also have so much of value to add. You really are an expert in the field of paid ads. This is an area where a lot of people have so much confusion. So anytime we have you on the podcast, we get people writing in telling how valuable it was. We'd love having you on and I'm sure today will be no exception. Before we dive in, for people who maybe have not heard of Jim Member Machine yet, maybe they're then sleeping for a little while or telling everyone, what is Jim Member Machine and why should they work with y'all? Yeah, we're done for you, growth partner for boutique training gyms. So whether it's paid ads, websites, automation, we'll do sales coaching and whatnot to help you squeeze more juice out of whatever campaigns we're running. We are a strategic growth partner for gyms. Like yours, dear BFU listeners, so if you're a global gym or a leave me alone and let me train Jim, we don't have much for you, but if you are in that more boutique, small group personal training, large group training space, we'd like to see if we can help. So yeah, and yeah, we've talked about you kind of those podcasts because we have a ton of unicorns, hunting members, leadership society members. We've worked with you personally in our gyms and our business for years and we're not just friends and fans, we really are clients too. And so we're walking testimonial for how great GR's team is. And so go check them out, go check them out right now, link below in the bio. So let's dive in whenever you're having a podcast, well, it's kind of get an update on kind of your current thinking of how things are going in the realm of paid advertising, etc. And there's been a lot of movement recently and a lot of opinions flying off to right, including Mr. Mark Fisher's opinion on this podcast about how valuable or not paid advertising is in this moment. How meta ads have seemed to have a big shift in the last, I don't know, six to months or so. And so maybe we'll start there. Just what do you see happening right now in the world of paid advertising? Good, bad and ugly. Yeah, so I have a, how do I say this somewhat eloquently and efficiently? I don't think I'm going to hit on both of those things. I have one, maybe somewhat hot take that I feel quite strongly about at this stage. I have some other things that are still currently buzzing the oven. So we're always testing things. Like at this point, we're 360 plus gyms around the world. So we're testing. We've got clients are cool that are cool with being getting pigs, things like that that I, the softly hell take is something that I, it's more of a hypothesis than any day, but I'll end up sharing that today. Again, yeah, we want to mall. It's okay. But this podcast is mostly half baked ideas. So, you're a good company. Yeah, the, if we're cool, it's just diving in to, yeah, I'm going to do it. Fun stuff. Okay. So the first annoying hot take with paid ads right now in an annoying is a very operative word here because paid ads, and I think I mentioned this on the first one. Like anytime I get on stage and talk about paid ads, I talk about how annoying they are. Because if you're used to, you know, utilizing the fantastic coaching, you get it via view and getting a ton of referrals and a ton of really like nice, highly qualified leads that if we're being honest, your clients have done most of the selling for you, dear Jim owner, like paid ads are a much more annoying ecosystem to play in, particularly if you've never played an ad ecosystem before. What I am seeing now paid ads are still working. This is good news that we've got people that are still absolutely crushing with paid ads, but it's still getting harder. Yeah. And so the analogy that I've been kicking around lately is it's almost like asking, okay, just like strength training or just exercise still work to get healthier. Yes, exercise still works to get healthier, but we're almost now it's less like we are the raging hormones teenager that took creating and walked into the gym for the first time and you just look at a weight and you just get stronger. You just turned 45. This is amazing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like you're now paid ads are like for gyms, like you're a pyramid, a puzzle woman and things are getting harder. You're an older dude and it's like, do I need to do TRT? But I'm afraid of getting bought. This is my internal dialogue every day. And so it's just harder. And so you have to get more things right to get the results that you're looking for. I think there's a world where we need a more extreme dialed in effort at each stage of the paid ads process in order to get the outputs that we're looking for. One of those things that I feel much more strongly about now is gosh, our old offers, right? The more traditional offers we see a lot like with gyms across the board. It's oh, I've been running a I've been running a 14 for 99 LBO for years and it's crushed and it's gotten us to 100 members or 150 members. It's like just not working anymore and I don't want to change it. We may have to change some of those things in order to get the results that we're looking for, particularly when it comes to paid ads. That is a that's one of the takes I feel pretty strongly about. So yeah, let's keep pulling that thread a little bit. So clearly you're saying it's just a little harder than it used to be. And does that start with more expensive? And then we put this way down. Yeah. So like the ads themselves are like to spend a little bit more money. You have to do a little bit more follow up with the leads. You have to maybe play around with different offers. Maybe you have to get a little stronger in your sales skills and overcoming objections might get new ones out there because it's a colder audience. So is it we're talking a little more effort, a little more like the bull's eyes a little smaller all the way down the list of tasks. I think it's a great way to put it. Yeah. And it goes all the way down I think even into the actual operation of the gym, which you guys are the best at if our service is not on point and dialed in then sure. Guess what? Like the bar for what good service looks is very different than it was. You want to go extreme like 10 years ago when you can lay in not wear shirts and oh yeah, the coach is writing up the workout on the whiteboard as clients are coming in 10 minutes after they were supposed to be there and the workouts were supposed to have started. We gave community like this is fun. It's not cute anymore people have patience because they have a little choice in most markets right I think go anyway in a lot of places and there's a lot of places who brought a really high touch coordinated like orange theory style experience which is really pretty dialed in. So that's what your markets comparing you do you better have your shit together. Yeah. So what do you think is what's driving the this? I don't know you don't want crystal ball but what's your sense of what's driving it has meta made changes or Google made changes that are driving this or you know what yeah I think there's some changes to the way meta functions and works to a certain extent the overall the cost of eyeballs is just getting higher there's more people advertising what have you. Fisher's comments about is there a conspiracy I don't think there's a conspiracy. However it's just it's like there's more people advertising and it's not just gyms that we're competing against right it's everyone else that is fighting for your clients eyeballs like you're competing against all of those humans. Costs of eyeballs are a little bit higher just like to get the ad served then your conversion is tougher because there's more gyms that are competing for your specific customer and the specific solution that you're presenting and that's where like my my big hot take is I really think more people should be going to free offers. So I think obos are not a compelling enough thing and this is all there's caveats to all of this because there's going to be markets where people are just absolutely crushing on paid ads with their traditional 14 days 99 dollars like whatever insert any obo type offer here there's going to be markets where those things still work and that's great and I love that for you however in the more competitive markets I think by and large going with a more extreme offer and we never recommend the bait and switch stuff like I've been anti that the whole time you can check the frickin receipts kids right I think it's one of the worst things you can do for your business and your reputation long term but I do think there's a world where gosh either you have to go much more high ticket on the front end and collect more cash on the front end to be able to make a profit on your ads because they are more expensive which means every piece of you've got to have a really good really highly skilled salesperson on the phone to book the appointment because you're going to have to deal with pricing objections and handle that elegantly and eloquently to get them to book and show up and so on so forth you're going to have to have a really good sales process you're going to have a have to have a service carpet that matches the offer drapes if you're selling something that is very expensive so you can go on that extreme or you can go on the other extreme where it's more of an in bio this is a day brasco special I don't know if in bio it was like a thing before but like a no barrier offer where it's shout out Dave shout out Dave truly free which sounds annoying but man if you're really dialed on the service side and everything else the there's benefits to the free offer we did free offers a bunch of times at market for sure fitness and we just get flooded with leads and did we get everyone's big concern there's basically a ton of tire kickers people are interested we did but we also got a lot of people who stayed we all people we converted right so it was both were true for us it's like you get a lot of people who are not convert but that's the case anyway we are doing this game right you have to use to that James Pratt I've made the joke with Dave I've been talking about James I've been talking to James up on freaking group coaching calls and on podcast episode he's actually had been released yet but he's the first guest of the GMM podcast because I've been talking about it so much we'll have to have you on Michael Keeler Jim remember machine podcast release actually plug there James James broke my beliefs on so much stuff right so you got this really he's a friend of BFU and you guys had when he started to actually turn on the gas with marketing but dude was like it 300 400 members before he started to enlist either one of us in terms of the marketing side just complete yeah alien when it comes to the service the delivery the quality of the coaching trainers etc all those things he grew the lion share that business on free trial offers where there was free 14 days free 30 days what have you selling people into like minimum I think he said $350 a month memberships and so we've had we had like guru I'm not going to give like the names here but we've had other gurus from other circles still have and operate a gym or gyms right maybe I'm not giving away too much and we don't do free tire kickers and blah blah blah I don't do discounts things like that James has maybe I don't know if there's anybody more successful but maybe the most successful single location gym yeah just training gym in a totally own bootstrap like it's his thing this is not outside money would have you that I've ever been around yeah they build one of the guests yeah hopefully free free yeah I think listen I'm with you I think free is got to be on the table for most of the people I'd rather people experiment with free than with high ticket offers just because I think high ticket offers just leave too many people off the table like it's just so inaccessible just so much of the population unless you're in like a super rich area and your whole thing is serving rich people then I think high ticket offers I'd rather you do free the thing with free is just like you said you just have to have your shit together yet you're willing to follow up with lots and lots of people and every day multiple times or day right I have to have a really good sales conversation you have to and then a great experience when they walk in the door if you can have all that I think free can be a great try once a while maybe not 100 percent of the time but I think it's got to be a tool in your toolbox for sure where James broke me is we convert 83 percent more free trials into memberships and the minimum membership is like 350 bucks there we go there's one of the goblins one of the kids making an appearance sprinting across the bed yeah no it's the and here's the nice thing for folks are thinking about free number one I think like James and then there's we've got dozens and dozens I won't say hundreds but there are certainly dozens and dozens of other small group personal training gyms that have grown to multiple locations that are growing off the back basically of a free turn free trial offer right sometimes it's a Netflix close sometimes it's like there are ways to collect cash upfront on free offers of course with integrity right okay option A is this and option B is this maybe it gives you a little more free for your money what have you that you can do those things but the nice thing when it comes to following up with folks on free offers is you can just tell your prospects tell your gym prospects to come in and use this and abuse this you don't have to have a pricing conversation while you're setting the appointment right the level of skill required to get the person to come in and try the service is much lower than with these like higher ticket or membership or whatever else type offers and so there's some nice I think throughput that you can get on that side and again what we've seen at this point is it's not that the leads are tire kickers so if you are not converting your free trial people into memberships at a rate that is somewhat acceptable to you when you look at the finances of the business then it's a higher BFU tomorrow because probably your product needs to get better you still have a great experience yeah they want to have to wow on yeah that makes sense before we get into the other hot takes let me kind of ask a quick maybe tangential question about the about the landscape which is when we talk about paid ads we mainly are talking about meta ads these days but what other what else should people be considering how important are Google ads to this you know what's all the young eyeballs are on TikTok these days what's there to say about advertising on platforms like TikTok or LinkedIn at this point yeah LinkedIn we have we is normally we'll test a bunch of different platforms over time clients want to try it out and so we'll try it out it's like a good excuse for us to try different platform LinkedIn's never been one where we've seen success like my understanding of it right now is it it's just so expensive it's so clunky of a platform to advertise on yeah I just don't think it makes sense if you want to cross-post some of your organic stuff and start to see if you get some juice on the organic side of LinkedIn by all means sure give it a shot it just it feels like a platform where are you really looking for fitness content organically on LinkedIn like yeah probably not I could be wrong that platform for me and my own personal experience has always been so gunked up by bots and/or automations like my I don't know my own box is always like thousands of messages full of just people I've never heard of which just makes it impossible to do any real advertising on there for things that might actually be valuable but okay so LinkedIn maybe not so much you haven't seen it had a success what about what about google check talk yeah google google is an interesting one google I think is very it's even more market dependent than the meta platform so the deal with advertising on google for the most part and we've got more folks that are advertising on google than ever used to be something where we just say dude you need to be absolutely maxing out your budget on meta because there's a point on meta now like used to five years ago we were running pre sales for folks and they would want to run the budget up is it like highly capitalized franchises that to like you need to spend more I'm only going to spend 500 bucks a day in this singular local gym to get as many clients as many leads as possible used to be able to push budgets budgets up way higher than you can now now the optimal spin on meta for most gyms is going to be typically like under a hundred bucks a day on our buns a day is like a pretty good cap for most markets and you spend oh I spend whatever I spend a hundred bucks to get seven leads and if I spend 150 bucks I get seven leads we shouldn't be spending 150 bucks right that's telling us that the max that we should be spending in that market is about a hundred and so then if you want us keep spending money on marketing in other places then take that budget in the next place that we would place it would be google for us right now I still don't know if tiktok is going to be a strong advertising platform or not I know it's nice in that the platform itself is quite similar to meta in terms of execution and setup I think one of the challenges with tiktok is again with anything you really want to have your carpet match the drapes so if you're going to be advertising on the platform particularly like tiktok you want to have good organic presence already there and most gyms that we see at least in our universe like they're not doing three video short forms a week that are really high quality and so tiktok we've not thrown a bunch of people on at this stage let me say there's a world where it could be good google still a thing we see some of our sports performance people really engage in tiktok people are going after youth athletes even college athletes because that's where their eyeballs are and so those are the folks who I think maybe would be worked if we were considering for them because they are incredibly present on there and then sorry you were going to say something else yeah so with google the issue with the lion's share of google ads and there's actually if you want to get deep into the fricking mechanics of this stuff like google has it and I forget what it's called my brain's not working but google has a more interruption based option now for local gyms and we've been doing some of that so we'll mix some of the higher intent search driven advertising that people are used to on google oh when someone plugs in personal training let's serve and add to that individual when they're in our given location radius and things like that the issue with google is if there are not enough people searching for your thing in your market then you can't throw money at google you can't have it do the interruption based stuff in the same way that you can with the metaplatform right facebook and instagram so google tends to be a typically a lower ROI than lower ROI platform than the metaplatform we will typically only recommend folks go to google when they've maxed out they're basically what they their max efficiency their peak efficiency spend on the metaplatform and then and only then what do we look at google is somewhere where we wanted to spend money it's not going to be something where we're like oh dear client oh does it make sense for us to spend money on google or meta first like it's sure almost always a higher return on investment with meta even though those leads are candidly a more annoying lead to work with than a google lead that's searching for personal trainer near me and then your ad get served to the top i'm much more of the philosophy let's make sure our SEO is really good on our website and if you're up and makes your gmb is gbp gmb they're always changing the name your google business profile right yeah is as optimized as it can be to give you the highest probability of landing in that top three on the mat pack is what we call it in the business and if you're there already and i don't spend more money on google as much as i love to sell you an additional platform like you're already there. - Makes sense. - And you're there for some free. - Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate you going on this tangent with me just because I think it's a question we hear a lot in talking to folks who have been running paid ads or considering running paid ads or maybe you're hitting a plateau with paid ads like what other platforms is them like they often go to so it's great to hear your thinking on that. What else any other what other hot takes during your back pocket? So the I mean I think the offer hot take is the one that Jim owner should take you run with. The it's just so much easier to get a lead to claim something for free up front and you can look at your the ecosystem in your market and be like all right people were running a bunch of bait and switch stuff or maybe you still have people that are still trying to run bait and switch things like you can zig when they can when they're zagging and go completely anti this is actually free there's no bait and switch like no accountability deposit to come in and try this thing out. It is truly uses an abuse us for 14 days 21 days 30 days absolutely free 30 days free G are that sounds insane. Yes it is insane. Also James filled his fricking gym his second location in like four months or so on the back of a free 30 day no bait and switch offer. It was just really easy offer to say yes to and then serve the hell out of people on the other side. And guess what they're closing 83% of the free trial leads into memberships on the other side. Do I think you're going to get that probably not probably not but you could right and the thing I think people should look at with when it comes to an offer like that is just long term conversion look at that list in six months in a year and calculate people who have converted from that offer long term because I think you're right they'll opt in immediately even the timing might not be right or they're already they're still locked into another gym they'll opt in to try and claim it but it might not be the right timing but you look back over the over a year I bet you do convert at a pretty high level to focus on that. The other this is the one that is in the oven so to speak so there's lots out there on meta that I think people should not be paying attention to right there's a lot if you go on YouTube the universe YouTube University and look at all right I'm going to try to run my ads myself and I'm seeing ex-wisey guru talk about the new and trauma to algorithm and then I just need hundreds of pieces of creative and throw it into the AI and the AI is going to do its stuff for me I would highly recommend gym owners never listen to what the masses on YouTube University are talking about and what the Smeda marketing experts that are probably if you're running paid ads yourself you're probably getting calls and emails from the meta marketing experts and hey I'm Sean you're a meta marketing expert I've let's talk about ways to optimize your campaigns guys meta because I'm I eat my own dog food it's own big believer in these like continuing education situations I was in them when I was a gym owner in groups like BFU and I'm in them now as an agency owner we had in the agency group this guy was like sharing a win so oh we got this client up to 1.8 million a month in spend and we're trying to scale them up to get to 2.2 million a month next two months do you think meta's advice is going to be more designed more optimized for the giant e-com company spending 1.8 million a month or for your gym where you're spending a thousand bucks a month and like how many I can even do that math like how many months is going to take for you to be worth what that guy is worth in one freaking month years yeah the algorithm stuff and everything else like the meta's advice it they don't care about your gym spend if you go off the platform tomorrow they don't give a shit what they give shit's about are the people that are spending multiple seven figures a month on their platform their advice is to no fault of their own like it's a smart thing their advice is more geared toward advertisers like that so all of this and drama stuff and everything else and we're constantly testing the management best practices and making sure hey like this is the horn that we're tuning is that the correct horn for us to still be tuning right now yes so the managing your stuff locally is very different where I do see a world that could be interesting this is the baked potential hot take is going back to the world where we're I'm calling it three birds one stone so I may like we've still got a few weeks until the BFU in Atlanta I don't think you're still selling tickets for it but gosh you should be there if you're not this is part of what I'm again potentially going to talk about depending on how these preliminary results start to shake out I think there's a three birds with one stone method that we've been starting to implement for clients that I find quite interesting and basically it's this idea of there there used to be what folks in our advertising space would call carpet bomb campaign where you run brain awareness stuff on the top level right we're going to do engagement or video video video view campaign throw some video create about there and then re target that list with our direct offers and it used to be this fun sexy thing that people like me would say to scare people like you dear listener into giving us money to make this advertising thing sound really complicated it never really did that well we never pushed it to be fair we're seeing some things now where and you guys are probably seeing it on your feed if you're on platform at all where you're doing video driven stuff and it's a comment cta right so comment blank to get the thing you run a ghl automation or a mini chat automation off the back in turn that person into a lead hopefully have a conversation sell by chat yet few teaches that in a really great way and the nice thing there is that you're the reason I'm calling it three birds one stone is number one we're basically running brain awareness or engagement driven campaigns with good video content that's cool right the first stone is just the brand awareness and engagement that you're getting at the top level your following is probably going to grow you're going to get more reach on your post more people are seeing your thing it's just like an exposure a welcome matte to your brand if you will and it's the same hypothesis of doing good organic content but now you're forcing that spend into a certain into your market the second bird that we are viciously annihilating with this stone yay that it's hypothetical right is but now we're trying to get leads off of it so now there's a window there's an opportunity for folks to comment whatever the key word is and have that person become a lead I like it so I when I was first growing my first gym we basically took off like crazy running direct messenger ads it was all messenger there was no email name phone number no calling leads would have you it was just messenger messenger is a less noisy platform than SMS and phone calls right now there's less like robo dials that are happening in your messenger account than there are in other places the downside to it is that you that's the one mechanism you have to follow up with that human sure unless you learn automation that hopefully collects phone numbers and things like that but you are able to a creates some brand awareness b collect some leads right get some leads that hopefully turn into conversations and then into bookings and then into clients of yours with whatever your offer is and then see the third thing is yes those people do become an audience that you can the retarget with your more standard ads so that is something that we are testing promising results the cost of eyeballs is lower running that type of campaign then just direct offer campaigns and so that's a yeah it's an interesting spot that I could see for folks that are listening that are really good at video organic content you get good engagement on your organic stuff already it could be worth all right how can I turn this into something with turn it into a lead collecting mechanism with some sort of keyword that people can comment to move forward right express their interest and then move forward deeper into an additional conversation I could see that thing that's I like this multilayer approach I would also imagine that it really does work well for people who are really good at knowing their brand who are really good at making some noise and having a point of view right if you're going to do that kind of brand awareness style content creation you better know who you're talking to and have your own personality I think folks who do that really well I can see this working even better for yeah yeah that's amazing yeah it's fun yeah I appreciate that way yeah oh yeah yeah so not a big family max but this is I think a way a kind of way of doing that and if I have people raise their hand in their comments they're opting in just not in the traditional sense yes so the way that I'm seeing it top right is still with the traditional lead magnet like comment to get your belly fat guide or whatever it is sure I don't think I don't think I think the best lead magnet that you can run for a business is a thing that makes them want more of the thing they are hopefully going to buy more of the next step yeah right yeah that makes that for gyms in we used to see a lot more of it where it's all like here's the belly fat guide like here's a shit over 40 guide or whatever like yeah you grocery shopping lists and all of the yeah yeah it's like you're gonna get more people that just want the ebook like you have the perfect lead magnet already built into your gym this is full circle the best lead magnet for a local gym again maybe this is how to take maybe it's not is to try the fricking gym yeah yeah I think you're right I think those other things can be a distraction it can be the reason people follow you is because you're giving out this content and makes them even less likely they want to come in because they feel like oh you're helping me do it on my own I don't need to come in I think that there's a risk there for sure let me ask you this we haven't gotten to this topic yet and I want to be respectful of our time and we're almost at the end here which is we haven't talked about AI almost at all yet you mentioned a little bit when a content creation but we can't have a podcast these days who don't talk about AI we're gonna I'm gonna get fired and is there anything related to AI that you find really helpful or false promise at this point in the ads world. - Oh, false promise. Meta's AI ad setup stuff is still trash, for local gems. Like when if I do a talk about how to set up paid ads, I'm like turn off all the AI stuff that Meta wants to make you turn on. So there's that side. I'm more bullish. We're in the middle of beta testing, like AI callers that are pretty good. So the folks aren't having to follow up with leads. There's some chat driven booking bots that you can utilize. And we're, again, we're testing those. Anything that we can do to like take the burden follow up off the gems. It's like the number one thing. So I think those things are getting better. My guess would be in the next year, 18 months, maybe max, phone based appointments that I will be a thing in the past. Like I think AI is just gonna do it better and not take days off and get sick or get annoyed when the lead hangs up on them or whatever else. So I think that's a fun thing to look forward to on the, whatever, the quality of life improvements that AI will hopefully bring in the coming 12 to 18 months. The other thing that we're hearing a lot of in terms of questions is, oh, LLM, I wanna be AEO. I wanna be answer engine optimized and so on and so forth. There's good and bad news with that. The good news is that for the most part, good SEO is still good SEO. Folks are selling like, oh, AI engine optimized, LLM optimized websites and data. Okay, fair play because it's a thing that people are thinking about right now. - Yeah, there'll be a few tips and tweaks that are very helpful there. But generally speaking, I'm with you for when I've heard and seen, if you have good SEO, you have good SEO and the AI's are scanning the same shit that they use the bots who have always been scanning. - Right, right. - Yeah. And you need to make sure you have a website company that is doing good basic fundamental SEO for you. There's some stuff and I'm not the expert on these things, right, I pay people to be way smarter than me on this. There's some stuff on the technical side. Oh, when you make sure the schema is this and that, okay, FAQ pages are actually a nice thing. Like we do an FAQ pages on our sites for years, right? So like a standard positive thing. So there's some little micro stuff, but by and large, good SEO is still good SEO and that's something to consider. If you're building your own website on Wix or whatever, it's probably not the best idea. I mean, you probably could have been with it a long time ago, but these days, I just think, it's the investment in the website from some of the great companies out there that do this. It's so worth it to not do it yourself. Yeah. So there's not, yeah, there's not a ton on that side that I'm like crazy. Do this, don't do that. What have you when it comes to AI? I do think theirs, and this is, I think the same thing we talked about last time. AI writing is still very clearly to me. AI writing, I would very much listen to Fisher's workshop when it comes to, okay, it's really good as a first draft and it's maybe really good as a final review if you're gonna do the first draft. Don't let the cousins make babies together or whatever his term was. So it's good for ideation or as a final pass, if you've got all the ideas in the world, but I would not be putting out just like AI slop in terms of writing unless your business coach is told, you might be a positive thing for you to maybe put you, yeah, definitely told the handful of people with all love. Let's just let the robot write for you. Like it's fine. And also, they're getting better at the official and a lot of us recently have moved over to Claude and you can really do a good job training it to have your voice and tone. Even if it's not perfect for a lot of people who hate writing and don't consider themselves good at it and it really causes them great emotional distress, just let the robot do it. It's better than nothing, but I think you're right that they're not amazing yet. But all these things are gonna be changing, I'm sure we'll have you back in the podcast and in a handful of months, there'll be new tools and new things to have on our radar. But I think that's a good place to leave it. This has been a great conversation. We covered some hot takes, some knots of hot takes, some warm just getting baked takes and any final lessons out. Actually, let's do this final word of advice for anyone on the podcast who has never run a paid ad. What's the first thing they should think about? - Ooh. First thing you should think about, I tell you what the salesman in me is saying, yeah, if you've never run paid ads, we'll probably book a freaking super high pressure call with our team 'cause there's a lot to dive into and then we'll either pitch you or tell you, like maybe not for right now. We do have speaking of the free offer. We believe in the, we're so bullish on the free offer, we're doing it for GMM. So we're doing a pure like no bait and switch 30 day free trial at GMM for Jim's who qualify, right? Like you've gotta have a bit of a critical mass of clients, you've gotta be able to show, hey, we're at least decent at servicing people on the inside 'cause if we throw marketing gas on a crappy service fire, we're just speeding up the rate of your reputation going in the trash can. So if you go to justjimmembrushing.com, mention the podcast and say, hey, is it crazy prematurely agreeing A-hole, Duce Bag pitchman said that they're y'all we're doing a free 30 day trial, but we'll make sure we get you taken care of on that front. And again, the goal of that conversation is to point you in the right direction, whether or not it's time to run paid ads or whether or not we ever work together officially. Yeah, like I think the best thing to do. - I just tell it's my members all the time. Just go talk to you guys 'cause we know you all well enough to know that you genuinely have turned people away that I've sent to say, we're not right for this time. Either you're not ready or whatever the case may be, go work on this and come back. You don't have the infrastructure if you're falling with leads at this point or you've shown an unwillingness to fall but leads at this point or you don't have enough traction or your market is we've worked for a little while and your market's really not getting any traction. And so go talk to GR in the scene because they'll honestly let you know if they can help you or not. If they can help you, great, get some leads. And if they can't, that's the answer. And so I think go click the link below in the show notes and do exactly that. Thanks as always for a great conversation, my friend. I'm sure we'll have you back again soon. We'll be talking about more of this. But thanks for bringing your insights and your personality and your energy to this conversation. I really appreciate it. And dear listeners, I'll see you on the next one. We all have a kick-ass week. - Appreciate you. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]