Episode 5 - Bad Denis

I'm Katie Page, CEO of Harvey Norman. Since 2018, Harvey Norman has been a key partner in the Australian's investigative podcast such as Sick to Death, Bronwyn, Shandy Story, The Teachers Pet and The Night Driver. Harvey Norman are proud sponsors of the Australian's podcast investigations and their award-winning journalism. Today on the front, bags of cash, dodgy hotel key cards, gangsters, free Rolexes, the stunning crime wave inside Australian casinos. Search the front to listen now. Listeners are advised that the Night Driver podcast contains course language and adult themes. The Night Driver podcast is brought to you by the Australian newspaper and digital site. The family of missing back as the woman Janine Vaughn has made an emotional plea for information into her whereabouts. "It's quite wrong for you to mind the least that he's done at a wrist of me. This stuff has tortured me for a long time. It just made sense. It plays me a fucking home." One cold early morning in May, I set out with my teenage daughter on an unusual road trip. We drove south-west for six hours from our home in Brisbane, crossed the Queensland border checkpoint for the coronavirus pandemic, and finally pulled up at a public park in a town of Dust and Tumbleweed. In the park stood a man who looked nervous, but eager to talk. He has previously told people in Bathurst that in December 2001, he picked Janine Vaughn up near the Metro Tavern, drove her to a place called White Rock, raped and stabbed her, and cut her throat. 19 years later, Dennis Briggs has agreed to meet Janine's sister Kylie, her brother Adam and me to explain why he said what he said back then. The retired judge, Peter Murphy, who has been helping me investigate this case still believes, as do I, that Dennis Briggs could be responsible for Janine's disappearance. We just don't know. On the long drive there, I played recordings to my daughter Sarah of interviews I'd done with two women, to whom Briggs had talked about his purported role in Janine's death. So can you just tell me how you came to be talking to Dennis Briggs about what he says he did to Janine Vaughn? His story was that he used to go to her workplace. He told us that he did locker, and that's why he went there every day and he'd taken flowers and things to her. He was smitten by her. He picked her up in Keppel Street. He used to own the color card that apparently he got picked up in. You know, he just went on that he ended up dragging her back into the car when he took her home, he took her out to White Rock, went down a laneway, how he raped her, he stabbed her, he buried her and went back and put it down a wall. That's Janine Wheatley, a nurse who once worked with Briggs. But we've never associated him with violence when you worked with him years before he told you what he did. I'd never thought it would work. Years later, her partner, Peter Barker, befriended Briggs and would drink with him at a local club. What were your impressions of the way he was telling you the story and whether you found him credible? I honestly believed the way he was broken. He did do it one day through the next day. The story was exactly the same. It never changed so he was of a very good lawyer or he was telling us the truth. He had in the past put a knife out on me. It was the fact that I came to get my partner from the pub and he didn't want him to leave. So he threatened me with it then. What did he do? Oh, he just told me if I took him, you know, oh, oh, you know, that sort of stuff. I'd go home and put it on his way home later. Janine Wheatley recalled watching Briggs put fear into a child. He threatened to get rid of her as well in front of me. She was only like 12 at the time, I think. But he did know when that dentist would come, he'd tell us he needs to leave now. So just explain, can you just explain that to me? What would he say? He'd just say to us, we'll be sitting at the table and he goes, you need to leave. And we'll we'd ask why he goes, um, bad dentist is coming, you need to leave. So we'd get up and go elsewhere and then oh, it could be an air all day to come and find us. And he'd tell us then bad dentist is gone. And what would bad dentist do? What was he worried about? I think he must be an angry because he didn't want us to rant when bad dentist coming. He didn't quite often, bad dentist is coming. He knew and he was having some, what do you call it? Um, personality change, you know, but, um, And did you feel like he was telling you to go away for your own protection? Yes, yes. Now there is an explanation for at least some of this behaviour. Dennis Briggs has a diagnosed mental illness. He is bipolar and he's meant to take anti-psychotic drugs to manage the extreme highs and lows in mood that he experiences. Briggs has his own demons. One of those was bad dentist, a reckless violent personality when he was drinking and not taking his medication. When Janine Vaughn disappeared, Briggs had been drinking and gambling heavily. He had stopped taking the prescription drugs which controlled his moods and he had split up with his longtime girlfriend, Julie. And he also told us that he continued to go back there the next day because, you know, his routine was every day and it looked suspicious if he stopped the day he went missing. So he went the next day too. Back where? Back to a workplace. If he had done this, why would he be telling you he does? We don't know. No one ever would say they did it if they didn't do it anyway, but they always seem to tell someone, don't they? No one would claim that to end up in prison, you know? But I think him and Peter that were very, very close, I think he just trusted him. He said he was off his medication and he has these delusions of grandeur and he later said, look, I was only joking, I didn't kill him. And he actually said that we made him, we didn't make him say that at all. It came out of his mouth and constantly came out of his mouth. I was happy to even put a wire on at the time. I was so convinced, you know, I just wanted to help them find her. Because I know for a fact if I had it on, I could have got it every day at the pub. It was always the conversation. There have been numerous searches for Janine Vaughn's body and some of these have been exhaustive. But based on what Briggs told her, Janine Wheatley remains concerned. She believes a search of a property at White Rock was incomplete. There's a deep well there. It's a property she knows because Janine Wheatley once lived there herself. I know for a fact that police have looked at White Rock, but they didn't look on the right side of the river. They are on the wrong side of the river, so it's never actually been looked at. Did you point out to the police that as far as you were aware, they looked on the wrong side? Yes, I had that many different people kept taking over the case. It never ever got fully through. I had detectives come to my house and they wanted me to take them to the lane, right? And it happened to be raining the day they came and they didn't want to drive their car down the dirt road. So it never got looked at. And yes, the next lot never ever contacted me. It's been news since I actually talked to a detective. Okay, they didn't come back when I stopped raining? No, no. Have you, all Peter, ever gone out to look for that well that he described pushing her down? I actually lived there at one stage and I have inquired and there's definitely two out there. I just found it's the star that he told me that he's down a well and there just happens to be two on that property. And he described that property? Yes, they used dogs and they found bones that they were animal bones and they were on the wrong side. Dennis Briggs is a compelling case study. For a start, he's a prolific liar. He has criminal form. Other people have told me he was infatuated with Janine and visited her shop on multiple occasions. He had a salmon colored Hyundai XL car matching the description of the one she got into that night in December 2001. And Briggs has said, I did it. When questioned by police, he's lied. He said he had never told people that he did it. He insisted they were the ones lying. Now his story has changed again. Now he admits he had made claims about having killed Janine, but he insists that he was lying then. Big noting himself, because he was off his medication. But I am so convinced it was Dennis. I won't believe anything else. My daughter has been studying journalism and she jumped at the chance to observe a self-confessed killer. During the drive to Northwest New South Wales, we listen intently to my recordings of others recalling their experiences with Dennis Briggs. and what Briggs had told them. Before we pulled up in the park in a place he asked me to not identify in this podcast, I didn't tell Sarah about his criminal record. For legal reasons, the details of this offense cannot be disclosed. In the beginning, I really believed to describe Dumber. It wasn't just what he said to me, it was how I said it, which really stunned me. Pisa Barker is describing his recollections. I'll never forget that night, the look in his eyes, the constant tone, the detail. And I think it was just after that, and Janine rang the police. And we waited thinking, "Oh, that'll be straight back to us after that." And then now I've got back to us, I think we rang again, now I've got back to us. Pisa was Janine Wheatley's partner back then. He's speaking about it here with a Sydney man who researched the case in 2018. I'm grateful to him for sharing this interview with me. I said, "What only told Janine what you told me the other night?" Thinking that he'd say, "Oh, I was only joking, you know?" And he started telling Janine exactly what he told me. I'm thinking, "Oh, you're kidding." I said, "See, Janine, I wasn't making it up." And every time he went in to tell me about this, it was always the same, like, a click. And it didn't matter who was around. The police officers could have walked up and stood next to me. If he was in the middle of telling someone this horrible story, he'd kept going. Nothing would stop him from finishing the story. So at the time, I really thought he did. Hearing about his bipolar and what bipolar can actually do to someone and not mentioning any of the nouns about the other people that were involved, I started to have second thoughts thinking maybe it was one of the other ones. It's still, I'll never know. Peter believed that the investigating police were frustrated and perplexed over this part of the case. They couldn't accept the word of Briggs that he'd done it. "It was like the place we were getting cranky at, mate. This is how I felt, because I kept saying. But look, it can't be Dennis Briggs. We found the actual courage he owned at the time. We've had it forensically tested. There wasn't one scary, not one here, they're going. He said, "Anyone could be in that car for 30 seconds. There'd be something in that car." But Briggs was a high-un die car lover. Janine got into a small red car. Was it possible that a short time afterwards she got into another small car? That's weird, because he called me over, Janine and me and he said, "Hey, you're out and got a car." He said, "You're always driving Janine's car." I said, "Yeah, he's a perfect car for you." He said, "Hang on to the steering wheel. Hang on to the steering wheel." He said, "Now feel like geels, geels, stick, move it around, move it around." I said, "Yeah, but I don't want this car." I said, "Oh, this is a great car for you." "Touch the stereo, touch the stereo." And then I said to Janine, "When we're having lunch." "Isn't that a bit weird?" Did you notice he was getting me to touch these? Who's going to get asked to do that unless they want fingerprints all over something? And what about this obsession that you mentioned that he said he had with Janine Vaughn before she went missing? Well, if he actually never admitted that he had one, but he would go to Ed Harris every day. Every single day, he'd have a new shirt or something. As Sarah and I listened in the car to the recording of my interview with Julie Cleave, we were struck by her candor. Her willingness to be open with a complete stranger, me, about the good and the bad in a man with whom she was in a relationship. For ten years. In the days before Janine's disappearance, things between Julie and Dennis Briggs were rocky. In happier times, they'd talked about tying the knot together, moving in. But by early December, they were living apart and just checking in on each other as friends by the time Janine got in that small red car. Julie spoke briefly in the very first episode of how she agonized over what to do about the remarkable claims tumbling from the man she'd once loved. And how she ultimately suggested to the police that as his story was consistent, they should arrest the man. But the police could find nothing in his car to support his own claims that Janine had been in it. I said, like, really, I said, well, if you're not going to arrest him, can you just leave me alone? I said, my face is on the news every other day. I'm in the newspaper. I said I'm not even really this person anymore, which I wasn't. I said, I'm seeing somebody else. I said, and, you know, I'm like, I said, this has been driving on mail for donkeys. And it becomes the point where you are trying to course of investigation or you will arrest him. Like, really, but, well, if they're not, neither have they. I said, look, I don't think he's that smart with not least a clue. Some just scripted him, but he was a brand new person. But I don't know that he wouldn't have been able to discard a body so that no one would ever find it. But you wouldn't have to be that smart. Julia dropped a body down a well. The chances are he didn't do it. Julia agreed with a number of Janine's friends who suggested she would not have got into a car driven by Dennis Briggs. He wouldn't have been his style. Not that I'm saying, you know, I like she was stuck up or anything like that. But she was a good looking girl. And to be quiet, I was Dennis wasn't good looking. Julia definitely doesn't want Dennis to be Janine's killer. But like the retired judge who's been helping me in this case, Peter Murphy, she just can't rule it out. I agree. There are parts of Dennis's story which just do not add up. For example, the location of where he claimed Janine got into his car is a little distance from where she was actually seen getting into a car. And maybe he's done it deliberately. Do you know what I mean? To throw the police off. No. And when he told you what he told you that he had raped and murdered her, you ended the relationship. Yes indeed. Because he wasn't just me, he spooked off to, he spooked off to, I'm not someone at the club. You're not wrestling, you're not saying. You need to step outside to body and actually listen to what you're saying. I said, you're just saying that you've killed somebody. I said seriously. And what do you remember him actually saying to you about it? They'll never find it because he's buried under rocks near a rougher and I said, "Oh, you saw a cow and that's when he said, 'Oh, because I raped and killed her.' And I said, 'What? Is it serious?' When Dennis was metacated and when he was not drinking. Oh, he was a placid, he was the nicest person he'd given you the shirt off his back. He was totally different than when he was manic. And did you feel threatened by it? Well, he never threatened me. He already seemed like a never-race can't mean that he yelled at me. And when Janine Vaughn disappeared, he wasn't taking his medication and he was drinking. That's right, because he thought he didn't need it anymore. And I said, well, here's the news, flash fear. You do need it? Simple as that. So, do you believe that an unmetacated Dennis Briggs would have had the capacity to. Well, he could have. And that's what I said to him. And that's why I'm. I can't say for sure that he did do it, but I certainly can't say that he didn't do it. He could very easily have done something. I mean, let's just say everybody related to the case is going to find that they didn't want. And someone has lost their life. A handful of sworn police statements have one thing in common. These statements all say that Dennis Briggs confessed to killing Janine. At first, back in 2002, Briggs didn't deny saying it, but he said he was big noting himself at a time when he wasn't taking his bipolar medication. By the time Detective spoke to him five years later in 2007, Briggs told a different story. Now he was denying he'd said any such thing. It is no surprise then that police were keen to re-interview Briggs, to take him through it step by step. The time is 1.16pm, and there's some electronically recorded interview. Number are 0020776, being conducted at Walker-Walker Police Station on Wednesday, the 5th of September 2007, between Sydney Constable Justine Priest and Dennis Briggs, with Constable Andrew Martin. Dennis, I'm going to ask you some questions about the disappearance and presumed murder of Janine Vaughn. You heard Briggs's former partner Julie Cleve earlier in this episode, and at the very start of this podcast, series. Julie told police that she distinctly remembered talking to Dennis about Janine in early December 2001. Julie has recounted this to me too. Now the police in the interview you're about to hear want to establish that Dennis did visit the dirty tab. Yeah, the metro frequently, sometimes probably some Thursday nights or Friday nights or something like that. If you drink and listen to the discount on it. And pick up any chickies to have a dance with? No, not really. No, not good look as that. Julie told the cops back in 2002 that she was really hesitant about asking Dennis questions when he started describing Janine's death because Julie was scared of the answers she'd get from him. Ultimately, she couldn't help herself. In this interview with police in 2007, parts of Julie's statement from five years earlier were read aloud to Dennis Briggs. But the officers did go to great links to ensure Briggs knew all his legal rights. He didn't have to answer their questions. They reminded him of this several times. They wanted him to be crystal clear about what was being put to him through the words of his former partner, Julie, in her police statement. I'll continue. Yeah. Over 27. I recall being at work the following leak. He came out during my night shift and he said to me. He said the throat has been cut. She has been buried near water. I said that he's way too morbid. No, I don't want to hear any more about it. But there was more. He said, I know for a fact she's dead. I said, I'm really going to strengthen myself for asking his question. But how do you know she's dead? He said, because I killed her. Again, Julie said she didn't want to hear it. And again, Briggs went on. He said, but she's buried at White Rock. She has rocks all over her and she used me in the water. No, I didn't say that. Did you agree with that conversation? I disagree, apparently. Me and myself were not saying anything like that because I'm not guilty of the crime. When you got all this information and everything and every movement I made that feels real sort of incriminating. It makes you feel as though you are guilty sort of thing. But me and myself are not. We've got nothing to fear. But what Julie said there just doesn't make any real sense at all because I'd never say anything like that. I love all sorts of women and that. But I mean, I don't go out to me way doing what she's spying in there sort of thing. So what she says. I mean, we all know what bath is just like the case of small tea. And as soon as something happens, it's bigger than Ben. Everyone's talking about it. Everyone knows everyone else's business. We'll agree with that. You agree with that. You can't go and go the toilet without anyone knowing what you're doing about this. So do you recall hearing something or talking to people or you know, something being brought up? I just can't remember anything as to then why you would have gone out and had this conversation with Julie. Is what I'm trying to get at? No idea. I'm not saying that you did anything. No, no, no, no, make you feel like. I know. All I'm doing is just trying to persevere. So together, I'm just giving you a chance to comment on what I'm telling you. Or what has been a tame bomb, please. Peter Barker gave a detailed sworn statement to the police. Constable Martin took this statement up with Briggs. The statement was obtained from Peter and Barker, okay? Yeah. And I'll just read a couple of lines, okay? I said, okay, let's get a sound on the table in the out. I want to know the truth. Peter Barker put his mobile phone on the table between them. He said he was recording the conversation. But in fact, he wasn't recording. I said, is it true that you had something to do with your name born or are you just bullshitting? Nobody finds it funny, but you're constantly going on about your name born and the fact that you are admitting it to everyone that you don't. Do you recall that? No. Okay. According to Barker, a chilling story unfolded as Briggs dead straight ahead. Then I said, Janine, left the nightclub before me. It was raining. I left and drove down Keppel Street where I came to Janine just before the light wire. I pulled over and said, I will give you a lift, Janine. I took her back to the tavern so she could get her handbag. I took her home to her house. According to the purported account from Briggs to Barker, things then turned violent. When she went to get out of the car, I pulled her back in and drove off. Her door still opened. I drove around for a while. Briggs then went into some of the grizzly details of a rape and murder. I took her to White Rock or River at White Rock. I tried to fuck her and she was fighting me off. I got my knife out. Sorry, correct that. I got my knife and gave her one in the side to try and quieten her down. I fucked her. I fucked her. I stabbed her 14 times. She would not die so I slit her throat. And then the claimed cover up. I buried her under some rocks and went to when home to get a shovel. When I returned, I tried to bury her. The ground was too hard. I had to carry her across the river with the ground was softer and buried her. I left and went home. But there was a salmon-colored high on dye covered in blood. I tried to get that blood out of the car. In the end, I had to pull the seats out to clean all the blood out. It was a big job. When the police put these details from Peter's sworn statement to Briggs, he was having none of it. That's a master of Daniel's door over the herd. And this is what he said. Now I know where he got his sympathy from. Briggs, I don't know. That's absolutely ridiculous. Even the sound of it is just ridiculous. Even if you were drunk? Even if I was drunk, I wouldn't say anything about that. I just put it back out for a start. As far as I remember, it was a blatant lie. You know, you were nodding. Yeah. And were you nodding as to, yeah, I agree with that. Or you were nodding as if you were great. You're hearing it. I was just saying it's so ridiculous. I was just nodding with it. At one stage, you shook your head. I'd probably something stupidly said in there. It was in regards to a factor. No, that's it. Now I know what you're saying. Well, what we're trying to do is present you with what we've got so you can tell us your version. That's it. You know, if there's something you want to tell us, tell us. Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. I didn't think duly it over, sort of say anything like that. And that idiot there did tell you anything. So you just made some stories. Pieces then partner, Janine Wheatley had given a sworn statement too. And you heard a bit from her earlier in this episode. It was another troubling account. Around May 2002, I think it was Saturday night. It was a baddest hour of soul with Peter Barker. And I saw Dennis. He joined us for drinks. He appeared in toxicated once again. It looks like you're drunk. Later in the evening, Dennis, Peter, and him drinking in some hair, Janine belongs, name came up. Dennis said, quote, oh, I murdered her. I'm quiet. I was shocked. Dennis said this. Dennis then said, I was at the tavern. And so was Janine. It was bad weather. And she left the building. I got into my car and I tried to offer her a lift and she declined. I followed her along Capitol Street to the live wire area. And that's when I got her into my car. I drove her home. I wanted to go in, but she wouldn't let me. She had a dog. I got furious. I dragged her by the hair to the car and drove her to White Rock. I went down the laneway to a river where I rode to and stabbed her six times. She was yelling for help. I had to silence her and that's when I killed her. Killed her to the best of my recollection. Bracket. I buried her in a shallow grave with rocks near the river. I later moved her. Unquote. They're both mad as each other. It's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. This podcast is made possible by subscribers to the Australian and our principal sponsor, Harvey Norman. Since late 2017 when I started pursuing Chris Dawson for the 1982 murder of his wife Lynn, Harvey Norman has been a loyal backer. It began with the teacher's pet and Harvey Norman and its CEO Katie B. page's support has continued for over eight years. I'm proud to have had their backing on all of mine and the Australian's investigative podcasts, The Night Driver, Shandy Story, Shandy's Legacy, The Teacher's Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Bronwyn, and most recently, The Sick The Death Podcast. For more information on this podcast, go to theAustralian.com.au. Today on the front, bags of cash, dodgy hotel key cards, gangsters, free roll-exes, the stunning crime wave inside Australian casinos. What about Briggs, do you know him? Do you recall him walking through the shopping center? Yeah, he stood out like a sore thumb. You'll recall Nicole Nolan talking in an earlier episode about her efforts to nudge Brad Hoseman's into asking Janine on a date. Nicole is sure that if Briggs had stopped his small red car near Janine, she would have turned and walked the other way. How do you know him? Can I swear? I think it was a bit of a dickhead trying to get five minutes of glory. Because he said that he murdered Janine. Yeah, just some people at a club. One of my friends Janine Wheatley told me he said it to her own a lady Glenda. Did you ever feel physically threatened by him? He wasn't allowed to flick him off like a fly. There was nothing to me. Janine would not have spoken to this man nor got Nicole with him. I don't think many women would have gotten Nicole with him for the way he looked. And that makes me sound like I think we're above him. I don't think that, but he was not someone that we would have associated with. Mal Pollard spoke in the previous episode about his ownership with Trevor Howey of the Metro Tavin, when Janine disappeared. When we first took over there, there was fights every week, and I had a reputation as being a bit of a goodbye. The dirty tab was also known to some as the Stavin Tavin because of a notorious knife fight. Mal Pollard and Trevor Howey needed good security staff to jump on the troublemakers. One drinker caught Mal's eye. And there was a guy sitting over in the corner. I just looked at a place. I had a feeling sometimes we had someone. It was Briggs. And I said to the security guard that was on Barry, I said to him, "Have you seen that guy in there before?" And he said, "Anyever seen him once we first said that was last Thursday, and that's about it, and how did he get it?" Mal Pollard recalled Barry Gale pointing to the salmon-coloured Hyundai Excel parked outside the Metro. I went and grabbed Trevor and I said, "Don't check that guy yet." And I said to him, "I wouldn't be surprised if this is the guy that they're looking for out of the Janine." I said, "Let's go to the end of the club shop." It's a couple of blocks from the Metro Tavin to the police station. Mal saw some uniform police on the way. And they said to us, "I'm telling you so I can get the guy." And I said, "Come out." So you sure the guys with guns and batons and captains pray that nobody here, these guys, you're going to get it. But they'll waitly work for us. And he came in and said to us, "Do you guys know Dennis Briggs?" And Trevor goes, "Are you ever at the guy Mal reckons responsible for Janine Vaughan?" He goes, "Well, he just told my sister that he killed Janine Vaughan and he went, "Well, you got to go straight to the cops." This is really important. It's someone to get on this, you know? There were a couple of inconsistencies in his story which either known as he didn't do it or that he threw those in there specifically for if he ever got caught. He was going to say, "Ah, so low body can do it." And the biggest gaping one was that she didn't get in the car, where she was saying to get in the car. And what about his story that he has these delusions of grandeur when he's off his medication? And that's why he just made all this up. He thought people knew he was just spinning the arm. There was nothing in it. I don't believe that for a second. The fact that he has a mental illness is that possibly, you know, the complete explanation for why he would say such a shocking thing. Or is it the complete explanation for why he killed her? Kylie's impatience to talk to Dennis Briggs set the wheels in motion for this road trip to his hometown. She was determined to look into the eyes of the one man who had boasted of raping and murdering her sister Janine. And also built up enough courage to give Dennis Briggs a phone call and see whether he would sit down and talk to me. I just rang in out of the blue. So he was surprised when I rang. He was a little bit nervous, obviously, when he first started talking because he's like, "So what's this about?" I'm thinking, "Well, I think you know what this is about." But Kylie is the first to admit that she can be swayed by first impression sometimes. So yeah, he was lovely and I know that sounds weird, but he was lovely to me. And it's going to be hard. Like, you know, when I first mentioned it to Adam, he was just like, "What the why? What could you possibly get from this man? Why would you go out there?" You know, he's taught you do for so long and I'm like, "Well, you see how?" And I want him to know that. It painted a picture of the things that could have gone on at night. You're going to ask questions that I probably haven't even thought of, that you've thought of them from a, um, investigative point of view, whereas I'm speaking from the family and how he's made me feel. Yeah. And I think that that would work better than you going in and interrogating him and then then he's going, "Well, I'm not talking or me going in and making him feel all upset and have a conscience and all these things and then him say, "Well, I'm not going to talk to him now." For 19 years, Dennis Briggs has loomed large over Jeanine's case. He's a menacing shadow, a man described by those who knew him well as capable of extreme mood swings and perhaps murder when he wasn't medicated. For Kylie and her brother Adam, the prospect of meeting the man who said he had killed their sister must have been unnerving. For Kylie, I still regard him as possibly Jeanine's killer. Oh, look, and I'm hoping that maybe when he sees me and he's sitting across from me, that something triggers in him and we notice something, I hope there's something there that we can pick up on. So you haven't really met in your mind. No way. No way. While Kylie and her younger brother Adam go night and day on the case and sometimes gets so frustrated by dead ends, they unravel with fatigue and sadness. Rod has gone the other way. He's tried to avoid it. With his wife, Kristi, he's raising two children and safely distancing himself from the case of his murdered sister Jeanine. He has agreed one piece of paper out of the file. That's just he and he doesn't want to. And I said, "Rod, you are so intelligent. So intelligent. You might find something in there that I've missed, that we've all missed." No, I'm not interested. Not interested. Seven times I've wanted him to just read just one statement even. And my sister just made a decision at some point after she went, "It's an excellent." No, I'm going to concentrate on myself. I'm going to, she's dead. That's it. What can I do about it? I'm not going to waste my effort, time, ruin my life or whatever. I'm getting on with my life. Settle down and become a family man and get in that path. And I made a decision really early on that I didn't really want to part of what the police were doing. I didn't trust the police. They'd just tell you the same old thing. And I was like, "No, I don't even really want to go talk to him." They'd come and say, "Oh, we want to talk to you. There's a bit of an update." And Kristi could batch for it. I'd be like, "It'll be just the same shit. It's just the same stuff. Something like an alarm goes up from their phone." They'd go, "Oh, we better go talk to Janine's family again and say, "We're still looking. They have to revisit each case. I don't have many cases. There are hundreds and hundreds of cases. I have to spend a certain amount of time with each one. But they have to do that for everyone's families. There's a lot of lip service going on and a lot of action, I suppose. You go through all these emotions and I know personally I started drinking more and just getting a bit angry when I was drinking." Rod stopped drinking when he realised he was losing his way in alcohol and he started to look after his mental and physical health properly. He's become adept at martial arts and he works as a senior engineer in one of the big local coal mines. "Yeah, I was very closed off with it. I still am to a certain point. I'm all about my family and my life and my career and doing the best I can in my life and the way I sort of get it. This sort of makes Janine proud, the way I sort of conduct my life." I'm sure it would, as it meant that you also had to distance yourself from what Carly's been doing. And Adam's been doing because. Yeah, I just. I do. I don't get involved with too much. I don't go looking for more than three parents. I turn to have a rock, so. I don't do it. I don't know if it's a blood decision, but it's a decision that I made earlier on. It's going to focus on my own family. I'd say what it's done to Carly and Adam. And Mum and Dad, I've seen how it's changed their life, big time. And I was pretty determined that I didn't want it to change my life or wreck my life. I like talking about it here, and I sort of. I like talking about the times we used to go over there, or she'd come over, or as a kid, you know, playing. So we talk about those times here, and it's a lot easier, and that's just time. It's been a long time, but I also feel guilty that I haven't done enough. Now, that's what I think. I'm smart, but I should have been able to work it out myself. But I haven't even trolled, really, because I know that once I get into a rubber bar, it's very hard to get out, and I didn't want to get in that rubber bar, because I've seen what it's done to Carly and Adam, and then the little I've seen, you know, if I had broken relationships, marriages, dads, same thing. The show of a man what he used to be, because they went in that rubber bar, and they can't get out. They're always thinking about your name, they're always looking at who said what, and what all this new evidence, or the place of doing this, and the place of doing that. Someone so said this, whereas I've been a lot more closed off with it all. Yeah, that's probably more wrong than right, but that's just the way I've dealt with it. I wouldn't be tough on yourself, I mean, you've been able to survive it, not lose your marriage or, you know, your kids, and I hope, you know, that you can understand that. I hope she's not looking the answer, you know, why would you try? So that's the only thing that plays with me with me, whether I've tried it or not. Maybe she'd take a bit of a break. Yeah. You alright? Yeah. When Brad Hoseman's was the leading detective in Bathurst, he knew about Dennis Briggs. I asked Hoseman's about the impact on a murder investigation of so-called confessions from people with the means and opportunity to commit murder. Often it's wanting some sort of notoriety, wanting to make themselves out to be something that they're not as kind of fanciful, fantasy-type thing that they embark upon makes investigations quite difficult. When it happens, of course, you have to disprove what they're saying in order to get to the bottom of it, where more often than not, you're trying to prove something and it complicates an investigation. He explained that rare occurrences like these, particularly when other details match up, put detectives on the horns of a dilemma. Put this set of doubt in your mind, because when someone confesses to something and then you're looking to rule them out or you do rule them out, and there's always human nature, there's always something in the back of your mind thinking, "Well, gosh, I hope I made the right decision on that one." Because the mental health issues of someone who has admitted or claimed that they had committed a serious crime may have been the same issues which actually caused them to commit that crime, right? Yeah, most definitely. And then, in this case, Dennis Briggs said to his then partner, Julie Cleve, as well as several friends, that he had actually raped Janine and he also said that he stabbed her to death. Extraordinary. Extraordinary, the someone who come forward and say back to that brutal and then recant what they're saying, and that the police can't whatever reason time into it. To me, if there's no trace of Janine in a motor vehicle, I don't think is a basis to rule someone out, if you look at the rest of the allegations or evidence in its entirety. 20 years ago, and we're talking 20 years ago now, aren't we, that forensic investigation techniques weren't at the level they are now, could someone sit in a car and potentially not leave a trace and get back out, yeah, possible, given the methods that were available for obtaining that evidence 20 years ago. But to me, it doesn't rule them out, it's just not something to rule them in. And then you're always an investigator in your mind just thinking back, you know, did I cover off everything? Did I make a mistake? Did I get a ride? You're always wanting an outcome. So when someone presents himself, it is all on your outcome, on your agenda that you're looking for, and then you rule them out. Hoseman's cannot forget the case of a young man from a small town, a short drive from Bathurst. Middle of the night, I get a call up diagram. Hoseman's recall that the man had a row with his girlfriend at a local hotel while celebrating his birthday. Their disagreement was over something trivial. He left the hotel and went home. He turned up, and the domestic argument continued, and he picked up a small threat of knife, and said something along the lines I've had enough of this I'm going to do myself in. And he did. And he drove the knife to the hill, and it was hard on his arrest, birthday, and killed himself. As a detective, you get called to that sort of case, and you just, you're second-guessing yourself even to this day, like I firmly believe that the story and the outcome of the investigation was that, that he did do that to himself. So I don't think a mistake is being made, but you can't help it over the years to think back to cases like that. So when you get a case where you don't have an outcome, you haven't been overcome the offender, and then you've got someone that's put their hand up and say, oh, I did it. And then I recant for whatever reason, and come up with a bunch of excuses where I was with my own big knife and missile. I reckon the investigators on the task force were always having the back of their mind just that sort of kneeling down, easy to fell out of reasoning. And if it all hinged just on, there was no forensic evidence found in this motor vehicle. To me, that doesn't really matter, it just doesn't really mean. Oh, we'll pay him a visit. Oh, yes, he'll be on the 28th, it's totally everything. The interview with Dennis Briggs was set for noon. After six hours of highway driving and a slow down at the border to observe restrictions arising from the pandemic, we rolled into the truck stop town where Briggs lived with his brother. A left or right than a left, and we were at the public park. Adam and Kylie and Kylie's husband, David, were already there. Briggs made small talk. There was a brief exchange of pleasantries, and in these pandemic times, an elbow bump instead of a handshake. Good, good. Not too bad. Yourself? Headlies come from Brisbane. Oh, yeah. Jesus. Yeah. Big, bigger drive than I would. Kylie shared an aside out of the air shot of Dennis. Did you hear him say that I look nothing worse today? And he said, um, because she's got, you know, wavy hair. Dennis Briggs told us he was going into Janine's Ed Harry's store a lot. But because he liked the clothing, not because of any infatuation with Janine. She was a bubbly person. She served to me, and that's as far as it went. I wasn't attracted to her, and it was already had a girlfriend at the time, and I was in love with her. We want you to be open and honest. Well, I am. I'm going to shoot you down. She was a beautiful girl and a bubbly girl. You're a bubbly person only in your nose, but I'm not attracted to you. I'd like to talk about the red car. You got rid of that car. I did. Pretty soon after Janine disappeared. Yeah. Why? Oh, I just wanted to update him. Do you agree? It looks a bit suspicious. It does. The point's a finger clearly of me. I can tell you now, I can tell you to your face. I definitely had nothing to do with Janine's disappearance. They can take all the DNA they like, but they're not going to find anything because I'm totally innocent. I mean, they could strip that car bare, bare to the axles. She has never been in my car. Bigs recalled some of the claims he made back then. I said, quote, I cut a straight, and I cut a finger's off of somebody thing, and then I said, I rate it seven times or something. We asked him why he blamed Peter Barker from the club. He said, did you murder Janine or did you abduct Janine? When he kept on egging me on, he just kept handling me. I thought of telling him some outrageous story. He might just bloody back off and loo me alone. He believed it. Yeah. And so did the others. Yeah. Yeah. That's the unfortunate thing. Yeah. Julie, she was your longtime partner. Yeah. She was very fond of you. Yeah. And you were fond of her? Yeah. She says that you visited her when she was at work. Yeah. [BLANK_AUDIO] said that they would never find a body she was dead she'd been murdered and she said how do you know when you said because I did it and she wasn't provoking you she was concerned that because you were off your medication you'd lost the plot. I was unhinged, yeah I was brought off me tree, I was drinking outrageously. Well when you told the police that you had not said those things to Julie and Peter and so on. That must have been a lie because you're sitting here today saying yeah I did say those things and I'm really sorry that I said them. All right yeah yeah. What I'm trying to understand is when should we believe you and when should we think you're still alive? Okay yeah. When are you telling the truth? Yeah. Are you telling the truth now? Of course I am. I am telling the truth. I'm telling the absolute truth. Absolutely. No word of a lie this time. In their particular moments I would have said anything. Why did placid dentist carry a knife? placid dentist carry a knife. I have a stripping wires or fishing or not heard what what you're thinking but yeah I did and protection but I would never like to stab anyone or stab someone or something or anything like that and I was just like a security blanket just that you know it might be feel safe but not that I was in danger or anything but just in case you know carrying a knife getting rid of your car. Yeah. No fear and doodle sorts of things and tattoo these head and arm are good. Changing your appearance soon after Janine disappeared. Yeah tattoo on me here dear. But if the police wanted to line you up at that time yeah you have to say you were giving them a lot to go with. Everything down the line around that time was pointing straight to me because you were pointing to you. It just makes me look like a prime suspect. I was reminded of what he's from a partner Julie Clave had told me so he told the police that he had a seven head. Yes in the car. I don't think I found it very funny to be caught almost with you. I mean I wouldn't reject and I feel only you're a freak. I give you said that to the police here it did sit fruit pigtail on the earth side when they said if you got anything in your car because the car matched. Dennis um do you remember telling police that you had a seven head in the boot of your car? Yeah I did. Yeah I remember that if police officer came up he gingerly opened the the boot and he says what he's got in there and I said oh a seven head and I mean I know sounds terrible but just jokingly I remarked that and he says what? When did you last hear from the police in relation to Janine? I think I was in jail. I was in for sexual assault. A sexual assault? Yeah. Which is what you told Julie and Peter and your friends that you did to Janine? Did you play guilty? Yeah. So you did it? Oh yeah yeah yeah I did it yeah. I was drunk as a skunk. So it's a very big regret in your life clearly? Oh doing that. And saying what you said about Janine? Oh God yes. Every now and again I'll think to myself what the bloody hell was I thinking what was I thinking saying all that all the terrible stuff and it made me feel you know terrible sort of speaking to you now that I just have settled in dreadful things which I've never never ever contemplated in doing sometimes I might get a little bit down on that you know well that's kind of normal but the medication sort of keeps me on an evil curl on that. I don't drink alcohol anymore. I've been clinging for ever since I've been up here. I had one beer when I got out of jail and then that was it. I didn't have anything after that. A Rick and women should be treated like women not as an object and not as a as a piece of meat or something like you know what I mean but there should be treated accordingly like properly you know you buy flowers you take them to dinner. Towards the end of the interview we pitted Dennis Briggs. He had been convicted of a sex offense. He was revealing damning details about his life knowing they were going to be broadcast. I know you won't accept my apologies or anything but yeah I'm deeply deeply sorry that you had to go through this trauma and as I said I can't imagine. I can't imagine. I definitely didn't do it and that's that's a trip is the whole trip and I know that it'll still go on until the perpetrator is caught and that you can finally lay your knee into rest and I hope that is soon. I'll help you all I can but I am not going to admit to anything that I've done or didn't do when I didn't do it. Thank you so much. How are you? I appreciate it. Yeah I appreciate it too. Several days later I spoke to Adam Vaughn. I believed him and that's sad. My thought of her being alive and kept alive and still alive and living alive somewhere whether it's getting away or whatever. It sounds like you want to believe Dennis Briggs because if he's telling the truth Janine might still be alive. Yes. My friend the retired judge in former criminal defense lawyer Peter Murphy and I sat down just a few days before this episode was due to be released. We wanted to have a free-ranging conversation about some of the things that counted for and against Dennis Briggs as a possible killer. All right you all thought Dennis Briggs. I don't know what to make of him. You can't possibly completely really amount because there's too much that connects him. He knows that although not particularly well you got the Hyundai Excel which he drives which he sells relatively soon after the events there's things that possibly connecting. He's got a prior for a sex offence. He's an odd man but just not enough there I don't think. A few other factors. The car that he drove was salmon colored. So matching the description that Strop gives. He was going into her shop a lot and buying clothes there. Julie said that he had something of an infatuation with her and he doesn't put it that highly but he does admit that he did go in there a lot. Yeah I mean he goes in a couple of times a month to buy shirts is where he tells the police where he can believe anything he says is a really significant issue I think. I mean there are things like you mentioned that connecting and I suppose you have to say to yourself when a person confesses to three different people to the murder how do you discount that. I think one of the answers to that is that when you actually look at what he says what his confession quote unquote contains the story is nonsense. Is your point that he gets things wrong? He gives an account which I don't think can be right on based on evidence that we have if he picks her up he picks her up at a different place to where we see her getting into a car on his account. He says he took her home. According to this version told by Dennis Briggs back then he drove Janine back to the Metro Tavan where she got her handbag which had her phone and keys inside but we know that her handbag was found the next day at the Metro Tavan by the cleaner Greg Brody. Janine had not gone back with Briggs to get it. Janine was not seen again after getting into that small red car. Her friends had to effectively break into the place the next day when they went around to see where she was. Let me be devil's advocate. Let's say he's dumb as he's picked her up and murdered her and then recounting the story because of whatever substances he was abusing at the time however messed up he was feeling he got some of the detail wrong. Why doesn't that follow? Why does he have to get the account actually perfectly right for it to be a legitimate case of him confessing to murder? I don't think he has to get the account perfectly right but I think significant aspects of it have to line up. Pollard suggests that Dennis has deliberately come up with wrong details to throw off the investigators. The notion that Dennis Briggs is sophisticated enough or Machiavellian enough to be able to do that to put police off the centres of weather is entirely inconsistent with the Dennis Briggs that we've seen and heard. There's no doubt about it. It is a pure confession. He talks about the events that occurred before he actually killed her. He talks about how he killed her. He talks about how he disposed of the body. He talks about how he cleaned the blood off his car after the event. So he gives a graphic and detailed account of a murder. He gives that graphic and detailed account to three different people. So all three have to be lying. There's no suggestion that they have conspired or colluded for three independent people as it were, giving the same sort of account in detail about the murder. He says, "I know, I didn't say that. That's ridiculous." Well, it's just plainly not true. So anytime someone confesses to a crime, confesses to a murder, and does so by giving significant details of every aspect of it. Of course, it seems to me you have to take it seriously. But there's a lot of it that just doesn't fit for me. Including the fact that according to Janine's family and friends, she wouldn't have got into a car driven by Dennis Briggs. He's not the sort of person she would feel comfortable with, getting into his car at 10 to 4 in the morning. I cannot possibly get a mental picture of her getting into a car with Dennis Briggs. On all accounts, he wouldn't be the only male in Bathurst who was infatuated with her. This is a guy who tells police when they ask what he's got in the boot of his car. He says "Severed heads." The police are looking for a red car in the aftermath of Janine's disappearance. When someone is pulled over by the police, knowing that they're looking for red cars in connection with a murder, and he's got a 10 pin bowling bag with his bowling balls in it in the boot, and the police ask him what's in it and he says "Severed heads." Surely that's a pretty significant sign of the sort of bloke you're dealing with. I think that any police officer with any sort of experience in dealing with crimes, it has to be very skeptical about this bloke. That doesn't mean for a moment that they wouldn't and shouldn't check it out, of course, but you'd have to be very skeptical of these accounts, I think. In the next episode of The Night Driver, why are local pharmacists who worked near Janine's menswear store became a serious person of interest in this case. The Night Driver is a podcast series investigated and written by me "Hedley Thomas" with assistance from Peter Murphy. Music and audio production is by Blacksmith and Co with additional audio support from Chris Bosley. This podcast series is brought to you by the Australian newspaper and digital site. Visit thenightriver.com.au for additional documentary material as well as credits for the full team behind this multi-part production. Anyone with information about the disappearance of Janine Vaughn can contact me confidentially by email by going to thenightriver.com.au. You can search for the Night Driver podcast official discussion group on Facebook and join in with the exchange of ideas and information. This podcast is made possible by subscribers to the Australian and our principal sponsor Harvey Norman. Harvey Norman has provided unwavering support for my investigative podcast since 2018. For more information on this podcast and on our entire investigative catalogue, go to the australian.com.au. Search the front to listen now.