Episode 46: Glass Backs and Training Hacks with Joe Truman

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At www.veladrum.shop, free international shipping and take your track cycling to the next level today. And now back to the podcast. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of The Peace Take. My name is Johnny Mitchell and I'm one of your hosts. I'm Lewis Stewart. And today, for the first time, in a long time, me and Jonathan are in the same studio together back in the original studio. We're in the same room. And you're also like the good old days. The good old days. It's easier. It's sounds glorious. The Peace Take's back. The Peace Take is back for that. For that. Yeah. We might get another one out while I'm still in Glasgow, more Johnny's in Glasgow. So yeah, we have. Is anything happening this week in track cycling before we get it? Tom Cornish, Roda TP. Tom Cornish. And that's the big news. That's the big news. That's the big news. Greg, you know, when you happened to Ms. Well actually. Yeah. Tom Durash, was there Dinnwin? Dinnwin? They're qualified fastest. Qualified fastest. Good looks only get you so far. Yeah, with that previous podcast guest Pete Mitchell second and third, I think. Absolutely hero. Or second and fourth. You know how you see those kind of like dads get fit motivation pages. Yeah, it's like it's botlics and it's potential. Pete Mitchell with a man. Yeah. And actually, I guess keeping in with the theme of Blackline Coaching. Yep. Which we actually forgot to talk about the entire episode. But you know, we're struggling for time. We'll show our Blackline Coaching just. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I think actually the insight that you'll be getting from this episode will show you the caliber of coaching that you're going to receive from Blackline Coaching. But yeah, we are bringing an old friend, a dear friend of the podcast. Dear friend. Definitely the honey of Hunco. This week's guest is currently the outstanding world's fastest P1, including every rider in the world. Four-time world championship med list. Two-time Commonwealth Games med list. Uncult. I was off to the table. A few minutes ago. Yeah. And fluent in Japanese, Joseph Trimming. Thank you very much, you're having me on. That was a great intro. Yeah, I would say. I would say I would sound fluent, but I am now done cool. So yeah, we don't profess to be totally true in this podcast. You're just back from the world. You're killing a jar of from? Yeah, I don't. Yeah, so we ended we ended worlds. Obviously, I had a pretty most of the year was pretty quiet to be honest. And then the last three months of the year, basically been everywhere. And cheerly for worlds, went home for a bit, and then been travelling for a month or so, and then back into training camp. So it's been good. You've just been in New York, was it? I don't know. It was London. London's right. London's Santa. It's great. It's like, basically, like an all-inclusive, but for everyone that loves sports. So most people are playing pickleball and paddle, but we're there obviously in the German stuff. It's very nice. Oh, yeah. You should play a bit pickle. I think Johnny would be good at pickleball. On what basis? I can imagine he's. Well, I reckon it's the least requirement for hand-eye coordination of all the rags. Sorry, I can bring a lot of passion for about 14 seconds before my heart goes out. So yeah, yeah. I don't think we had any rallies that lasted longer than the four in Star Trek. That's true. Anyway, so yeah, with just. So Joe, we are very. You're generally very happy to have you in the podcast, a friend of the podcast. But we were quite keen just to catch up on Worlds. We were in Santiago. We won a silver in the team sprint with GB and Eddie bronze in the kilo, which was to back up your bronze from last year's kilo. But you obviously cemented your place in that P1 role. Firstly, yeah, I guess we're just going to curious in the team sprint, like first time riding with Matt Richardson as well for GB. Yeah, and a pretty new lineup for Worlds for GB. Maybe it was one of your firsts without Jack Harlan? No, last year was my first of that, Jack. Yeah. I know, it was like, yeah, a fresh lineup. It was genuinely, it was probably the world's I enjoyed the most ever, because not a close up there. It makes sense. It's not because Jack completely understands. I know, yeah, I don't want to join. I definitely want to. I went in the C-space for Jack Harlan here. We need to swing yourself. Yeah, yeah. That's a C-space for Jack. I went in so relaxed and P1, after you've been doing years of P3, you've been terrified of getting drops. P1s are a piece of piss really. You're so nice. You go in. You know that all you're doing is squeezing everything out of your legs. It doesn't matter what anyone else does. You're there just to put everyone in the best position possible. I then obviously with the kilos, oh, it's very much the same way I've done it for myself and I didn't have to worry about any external factors. So, you're so fun. Really enjoyed it. Obviously a new group, Richo comes in with a lot of passion. So yeah, it was really enjoyable. Yeah, so as you say, that change from P3 to P1 is quite a big one. But actually, I'm just going to head straight in with the question, how does it make sense? That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm sure you've probably been asking yourself this a lot, Joel. How does it make sense? I think I can say this without being rude or disrespectful. But then P3, you would get dropped quite a little bit. I've never filled drop. Always a drop gap. And at Dawkins. Yeah, yeah. And P3 for years. And then all of a sudden goes into P1 and it's just exceptional. Does 171 make it make sense? I'll take the compliment at the end of that. Like, yeah, so I think partly it was, like, throughout my career in P3. I mean, I don't think, first, I don't think I've changed from being a P3 to P1. I think I've just a year or so now, sort of just focused on, you know, the technical elements for P1. I've turned out I've been good at them. Like, it's not, I've not changed anything huge in training or, but then I think massively different. I've sort of just hit the technical things that I would need for P1. And it's kind of naturally worked really well. But in terms of like 1SP3 and 1SP3 and 1SP3, it was like, I went from having Jack in P1, 171s, he did Ryan in P1, 170s, then to Ali who was, you know, doing 171s and 2s. So I think I always just had a very, very quick P1 in that first half. And it was always a really hard to get on. So I think when you're trying to balance, you know, a gear big enough for some good length in P3 to hang on, a gear which you can sit with and match P2's acceleration, and also a gear that you can get on with, you sort of pushing the gear bigger and bigger. And then for me, it was always the balance of on a gear that I can produce my own lap well on, but also get on with. So I think I struggled a little bit because I was pushed on that gear, thinking about my lap too much really. And I maybe I should have just took a step back, go on like something comfortable to get on, focus on that, start more and sort of forget about my lap as much. But I think when you're a young rider, P3 is the hardest one because you've got a balance so many plates in your training, if you start your peak speed and you're endurance. Preach it, preach it. So I think it's like, this is for all the P3's out there. - This is a P3 podcast. - Yeah, I mean, George Petrae. - I was not a P3. - A P4 podcast on. - I was just whatever it wasn't shit. I wouldn't really, see, I was any possession. It was just like, I think, yeah, I'm out the way. - I think it was like me, Rhinon's, Jack Carter. We all got on the team at the same time. And it was like, Niva and those guys were going to do P3 when they were younger. So it just naturally came to me. And we never actually, I mean, I was trying. (laughing) - I mean, when you left and we went to our first Euro's, I think it was like a few months after you left. And I think we then, like, you know, we just sort of got, Rhinon or Jack was obviously going to be P1. And Niva and them really fun. We're at that point, we're going to be doing P3. So it comes naturally worked out as a three. So I never actually, looking back, I never really experimented in any other positions, which kind of is strange when I think back. I was kind of like, I'm tall. So they probably just presumed P3 is the place for me. - Yeah, I know. - And they're quite lengthy as well. But it's funny, because there's always that sort of, everyone else says, "Oh, we don't want to pigeonhole you too, "erally, but there's exactly one happens." - Yes, like P1, medium P2. - Tall P3. - Yeah, so it'd be like that, but also because when we started doing euros in worlds in that like 2016, like the Olympic guys all had time off. So immediately, me, Jack and Ram all went to doing World Cup's World Champs Euros for like the next three years, like straight. So we went from being like on that junior squad to being like really development focused to instantly being like performance focused where we sort of forced in, it was great because we got low to race opportunities, but we were kind of forced into those roles really, really fast. And we didn't really get that classic academy two year window way, you can just really try stuff. - Yeah. - Like within like 12 or 13 months, I think we're on podium, 'cause they basically needed us to race or then start to race. Yeah, I think it was, it's more of a, I think, I'm beginning to believe more and more, if you're a good sprinter and you could kind of hone in on what position that becomes, like once you've got a big bank of training behind you. Yeah, it's philosophical actually. Yeah, well, head and strength, the philosophy now. Then ten minutes, we're going to be rolling out all the academy stories like, make that team. But yeah, I think one thing that would be I'm curious to kind of like put to you is that, yeah, like obviously you also are a world championship medalist in the Kilo and obviously like the Kilo at times has been an event which has been a bit of a, like, you know, like no disrespect to some of the riders who have won medals at it. But some of the years you've looked and you're like, I guess just because no one else really is riding it. But at the moment, you know, like the last two years that you've done it, your podium has been Harry Loveries and Jeffrey Huggland, you know, who are arguably two of the best Kilo riders ever. Sprinters, never mind. Sprinters ever, you know, like, yeah, so, so, and yeah, the times that you're riding, you rode what, 58 mid, 50, I think. Yeah, yeah. So, like, mid 58 seconds at sea level broadly speaking, you know, like that's, yeah, that's obviously a pretty incredible Kilo time, you know, you think when Matt Glitzer first went sub-six day and we were like, yeah. I think that was a man's world cup 2017. Yeah, yeah. Because you said to me on Academy, you're like, I reckon you'll be the first to ever go sub-minute. I remember you said to me once and I said, oh, blood, yeah, that's big compliment. And then I speak a lot of shit. You can have some shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. And then, that's the two weeks later and I was at our pollocks. Fuck, I must have just needed a lift to the track. You weren't riding me. You weren't. He's just in the morning at 7 and about to put my winter camp on. I think you'll go sub-sensely. Can I get a lift in the past? Yeah, obviously stuck in my brain, so I remember that. Yeah. God, that's pretty nice. You might have been early, but you weren't wrong. Well, the first Brit actually. Yeah, maybe what you were saying was first Brit. Yeah. We can dress up as that. Yeah, I could be. But yeah, I forgot when I was going, I was actually asking a question. Probably someone had been training. Yeah, but yeah, like, no, well, yeah, I think there's that thing. So you obviously have all of the characteristics, as much as we kind of say in that pigeonhole, and you obviously do have the characteristics to be an incredible P2 or P3 as well with that top end speed that start, and obviously being able to produce that speed off the black line. So I guess the kind of question I had that was a bit of a curious one is, would you consider a move back into P3? Yeah, absolutely. Can I discuss, consider a. It comes out to opportunity, doesn't it, really? Like, if we're needing a P1 to do 17 ones consistently at Worlds, and the only opportunity is to do P2 at Nationals or smaller level events, it's probably going to be hard to get a foot in, but I definitely keep, as you say, if you can do the shortest event and the longest event to a good level, you're going to be able to do the two middle ones. But it just depends on. Yeah, I'll definitely win. Yeah. So I'm curious to, I guess, where the P1 project came from, because we kind of just talked about there how you wore a pigeonhole, how you had years in P3, trying to make it work, and not necessarily that didn't work, but it didn't materialize to the level that you wanted to be there at the P3, the Olympics. And I obviously believed you were capable of. Yeah, and Johnny obviously, cheerleader, sitting across from me just now. When did that pivot happen, and why did it happen? So I think I got down to, like, I got to a decent level in P3 the year before the games, I got down to like 12/8, which on Ali's start, like, it was obviously got off the line so fast. I think it's pretty good. Yeah, so it's for the point, it takes everyone, Ali is like the fastest man in the world ever to the quarter. And then, yeah, and then the offering kind of falls off after that point. Yeah, yeah. The Lord blesses, but not everywhere. Yeah. Which was what I was thinking, because it was the same time. So like, yeah, to get on the team. Yeah. And then he gave it in the first score, so he'd take it in the last. So like, what to get on Ali, I'd have to give it down a little bit. And I got to like, you know, 12/8, which is pretty respectable. Like, it was the best we had at the time. And then Jack started going, I got, actually, I broke my collarbone at commies. And I got concussive out for like eight weeks. I missed that Europeans and worlds. And that basically, that meant Jack then went into P3, sort of did very similar times. And I sort of realized that as we were coming towards the end of 2023, but even if we were doing the same times, we were going to have a little bit faster because of his medals in the sprint and things like that, he's probably going to get the nod. Yeah, he's not going to get dropped. What's that? And he's not going to get dropped. No, exactly. And it became sort of quite clear. That's the way it was going without no one explicitly said that, but I kind of got the feeling. And then I saw, actually, I kind of had a bit of a project. And every time you come back from time off or a holiday and you're super snappy. And that first set of starts after holiday is amazing. I would always, whenever we would do that, I'd like go on a small gig. I'd always be really quick. And I was like, I wonder if, is that just because I'm fresh or is it because I'm actually good on these really small gears? I've never been given a chance because I've never had the opportunity to, or the need to. And I was just like, right, it's looking at the minute like I'm going to be there as a best I can do is like, well, the best case of Trump, he won is, you know, I go quick enough and I get put in his P1 worst cases. I'm now more useful reserved, so I can write one, two and through. So I thought we got back from Canada World Cup. And I was like, right, I got like seven weeks until the final deadline for like Olympic names going. And I was like, right, let's just sort of do a six week block. All stuff on small gears and just actually get out the gate and like actually work on gate technique. Up until that point, I've done, I would literally do two gate starts in a year, like I did just do two kilos of a year. So I was like, I wonder how much there is in actually getting better at that and just come into it for like six or seven weeks. Yeah. And then I mentioned to the coaches and I sort of sold us them in terms of in a better, well-rounded rider and they were sort of all for it. So then I just started like a, I just sat down on my own. What do I, where am I now? I don't want to get to. And I just like, reached all those points within six, six weeks sessions, which, so six weeks of three sessions. It's really easy. Really easy. It's like, really easy. We can have half. And then I was just, you know, that was me. I just put it on my table. I did it. Yeah, I did. Well, I just said this is what like, up at that point, I'd already sort of written my own plan and coach myself broadly for like the 12-amp to lead you up to that. Yeah. So I was like, right, I'll just, I'll just take this one step further and just really choose what I want to do. Here you go. This what I'm doing and they executed it. And like, because I came in, because it was like a short block and I've written it myself and I was like, really behind it. It was like so motivated. And I just felt every session, I was like, so hyped for. And I didn't really have to like, there wasn't any friction to me, like, you know, being really good at my diet and my sleep. It was just so easy. And it was just like, really solid six weeks of consistency. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a really interesting one because, and obviously, you know, this is maybe a bit different than some of the other podcasts we've done because, like, we know you. But you know, like, it's, yeah, like you, you, I think I've actually haven't trained me a lot for the years. Like, you have always been a necessary, I don't know how I'm always just bumming you up. Like, you're obviously, you know, like, it's weird when you've came, yeah, because offline, offline the things I say about you, the things I say about not, but like, you know, it's that, it's not bad. Is that thing? It's like, yeah, you've, you've always been an intelligent athlete who's had a very in-depth view. You know, like, I'll be honest, when you were like 18, 19, it was almost, almost to the point of insecurity. You know, I think, I don't know if I'm feeling maybe, I don't mean harsh with that. But like, yeah, there's a very strong way that you looked at yourself and wanted to challenge yourself. And, you know, and more had a, had a stake in that, which is, which is really interesting, even as you're leading to, obviously, you're writing your own program. But particularly, yeah, that, even that complete strategic decision, that conversation hasn't been hard about, you know, or the Olympics might not happen. Or, you know, I think often a lot of athletes do lead themselves on, on that as well. Because they're, oh, well, it will naturally just be me. Of course, it'll be me in P3, but actually, yeah, does that. Or they'll give up. Yeah. Yeah, you know. Yeah, we're as you went, okay, let's strategically pivot. Also to something which, I think you say is what motivates you. And yeah, like, you've really worked towards that. I think I've always looked to my careers. It's like, like, like, sort of a load of case studies. Like, a little project, like, myself getting faster is the project. And like, I sit down and start the season thing where am I, where I don't want to get to. And I'll just look at it like, like, it's simply just mapping out. And it was just like a shorter version of how a usual season would be, but I crammed it into six weeks. Yeah. And like, yeah, I found it really motivating. And like, like I said, it's like a case study. I was like, right, if I do this for six weeks, is that going to put me in a better position? And I just like, try a load of stuff. And luckily, it will, I guess it's partly as like, like, whatever I did worked. And I went pretty fast. Yeah. And then I've sort of taken that on now from that season to the next. I guess that begs the question. Like, you know, you did this case study. You say you try lots of different things. What were the things that worked and were the things that didn't work? Like, how did you find that? And obviously, you got this huge better training. You know, and maybe it's just realising potential that was already there. But what do you think worked in that time? And why did you sort of choose those sessions? You said you were kind of coaching yourself. Why did you design it that way? So about going inside exactly the sessions, I guess. It's like, well, I think, what I think, what combination? Well, I think did really help like, like, Jim, like, broadly as like trained so long for P3. And I think, like, I'm looking at trying to get, expend as much energy, get as much energy out in those like 42 seconds. And then I'll be back. I basically just condensed that down. Now as a P1, all I've got to do is empty myself in that 17 seconds. What can I do to get to that point? And it was like making, making like, how did I say? Like trying to tap into that peak power as much as possible in a way that isn't fatiguing. Like trying to get out as much as I can, like without it being, I don't even have to say about it today, exactly what I do. (laughs) - Yeah. - It's a secret of mine. - And tell us, come on, we're all friends here. - I did, obviously, a lot of it was very technical. A lot of it was very technical. But I came from a place of very, very never, ever riding a gear under 100. To riding a gear under 100 is like my main port of cool. I think that was a very big thing. And I think coming from, when you're doing starts on 120, we can week out. That transition to doing starts on 95 is way easier than doing 195 and coming up to 120. So I think it was just a case of getting my turn over quick and I have to apply that power. And then pretty within a few sessions that felt like a gear that I could apply power on. - Yeah, I guess that's where maybe from a coaching point of view, I find it quite interesting. So when you were approaching that, we were approaching it from a more physical standpoint, a technical standpoint, or actually even maybe, 'cause obviously as you're saying that, that aspect of getting the same amount of energy out in 42 seconds down to 17, that also does bring, well, did that maybe even bring like a different psychological route to that as well? So yeah, I guess it's just-- - Yeah, it was quite psychological because I'd usually like end a rolling three quarter, I wouldn't be particularly tired. And I was like in the mindset of like, I'm gonna absolutely empty every fun I can within that like 11 seconds I have along it takes. And I think that was a mindset shift because I'd usually go from doing an effort like that. Like a rolling three quarter plus a half, I'd be thinking the part that matters is the half. So I'd always be like inadvertently holding a little bit back until the part that might be the timing part. Well now I was looking at every rev is basically giving me a slightly higher speed to what I'm gonna end that lap on. So it became a case of like every rev get faster or every rev you're gonna step up. - Yeah. - And I just, yeah, became really natural just to absolutely empty myself. And I think that is what helped me in the Kilo because I could then sort of apply that for getting about how long the Kilo is, but I'd apply that to the first lap anyway. - Yeah, yeah, almost. - It was like the sooner you get up the speed in a Kilo. - Yeah, the faster you go. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And I think it was very, it was like a, I did do some sort of wacky stuff I guess about like I spoke to a few people at Loughborough in different sports like very, very explosive sports like 100 meter running. They gave me a few ideas and I kind of applied that stuff to the bike as well. - Like what? - Give us what's wacky. (laughing) - You can't cock teases like that. - I saw more of the flirty stuff. (laughing) - I saw him pulling a sleigh like a husky on all fours. (laughing) - So like little things like that were really, really useful. - Like what? (laughing) - I'd say it at the top. - So like it was, it really was. And I think it really was a case of like experimentation. Like I just experimented with a lot of different training types. Like I'd say 80% of the things I did really worked. Like gearing myself under rather than over. Like as the normal thing, 'cause usually I'll be like, I'll gear a little bit over because then that I mean, when I'm racing and I get on my race gear, it's a little bit easier, 'cause it's lower than I'm training. Whereas now I would do it slightly the other way around. - So it's like kind of unipolaration. - It's like a question. - Don't worry, I answered the question with no action if it would be an indeed too. (laughing) - Yeah, that's like training specifics. - Right, okay. - Like, answered a lot of that I've taken into like, my career as a whole, I've sort of, stuff I learned in that six weeks, I've kind of spread out over the last 12 months. - Yeah, I think. - It's cool. - It's cool, right? - Yeah, if it's cool. - You are right, a lot of it was technical, 'cause I think unless you're in the gate a lot, you're really missing a lot. Like, you can save a 10th just to the 10th meet, it's just by being confident out of the gate. And I think I didn't, obviously that's like, gaining a 10th in a lap, like, huge. - Yeah. - It's like just focusing on, you know, one session a week that was purely technical. Like, for me, doing that over eight weeks or seven weeks is like infinitely more than I'd ever done before. So like, that made a huge difference. - Yeah, I guess the ceiling was just there, wasn't it for the take-in sort of thing? - Yeah, I mean, sorry. And I know we'll maybe get out of our geeky discussion, but one thing, I'd give one other question, I was quite curious was like, just even for you as an athlete approaching that as a technical, 'cause, 'cause, almost typically in most settings, it is almost the cultural or accoch, or a member of staff or, you know, life child. It is, you know, niece. Yeah, niece. You know, like, but you know, it almost becomes, 'cause I coach myself for quite a while, and that was the one thing I've really always found really difficult was being able to balance that technical side out, because it's like, you as the athlete still have to, is you say, when you're trying to do something in a start, which is super aggressive, super fast, if you're thinking about it too much, it's already happened by the time you've thought about it. - You know, so, yeah, that's a good point. - So, yeah, like, I guess, I guess you may be, like, what I was kind of curious was, yeah, what was your kind of process that you took in, obviously, maybe determining the things you needed to improve on, you know, like, and even planning that into sessions, 'cause, yeah, it's, like, it gets to say, 'cause it's a very easy thing I've seen in the lot, with a lot of coaches, a lot of players say, I'm just gonna take six weeks and I'm gonna improve my start. You know, and then they don't have the first fucking clue about their start, they're trying to improve, or they end up getting, you know, you know what I'm saying. So, yeah. - So, I took, I realized that like, my P1 was like completely untapped. I'd really had no idea where to start. And so, basically what I did, I took, who I thought, the best P1s were different parts of that lap, and I just tried to emulate it. And I thought, what is it they're doing here that's really good? So, I watched, like, I'll probably watch Allie's Reels over and over and over again. You know, Allie's Reels, he puts on Instagram, gets like tens of millions of views. I watched them. I watched them, I watched probably like 10% of those views on me for the first time. - I watched that. - You're all the more in the vein, comment and sing, I wish you were the, I wish I was the stem, you know. (laughing) - Is that what people call me? - That's what it was for me, that was me. (laughing) - There is actually a lot of comments. - Yeah. - I actually remember like, I remember like being on the rollers before one of my start, like technical sessions. And Allie was like, rolling it, rolling next to me. And I was just watching his reel. Just like, right, I'm gonna start like this today. Like, this is the guy, like, this is the guy's got the best 10 meters early. Like, I'm just gonna copy this. - Yeah. - It's like, otherwise, when I got to the gate, I'd let him go first. And then I'd watch him do his first start. And I'd be like, right, I'm gonna copy that one. So, I sort of tried to take different, you know, like, different parts and then really copied, so like, Lee Hoffman's delivery is obviously the best. So, I was kind of watching how do they sit down and ride that corner. And like, Ethan Mitchell's back straight was always really strong. So, I kind of like took different parts of, this is obviously very technical, 'cause I don't know what they're doing physically, but I sort of took different parts of that and I was able to kind of put that in. So, when I did like, a standing quarter, I'd be thinking, I'm gonna start like, "Allie, when I was doing a roll and free court, I'd be thinking, "Oh, if you don't like Ethan Mitchell." - Yeah. - So, I, that kind of just gave me motivation. And it kind of gave me a very, very singular focus for whatever the effort was. - Yeah. - Yeah, so, and when you talk through this, it's a lot of like, your own reflection, a lot of I, a lot of like you supporting yourself. And, you know, what you mentioned a bit earlier, which I guess is sort of the elephant in the room is that you were coaching yourself for 12 months. And I think people might be wondering, well, that's, why would that be? That's quite curious. And how did you end up in the position where, you know, six months, 12 months out of the Olympics, you found that you were, you made the decision to coach yourself mainly? - I think I just realized that like, no one, no one's gonna know my body as well as me. And it's like, I think I know what makes me ticker. I know when I'm feeling good and I know, like no one's gonna know you as an athlete, as well as the athlete themselves. And I think that mixed with, I was doing a lot of research with like my degree at Loughborough is like, everything we would do, like no matter what the module was, I'd always come trying to apply it back to track sprinting. So I think I'll start developing a really good idea of like, like different aspects to performance that I kind of, in my head, when I was learning about them, I sort of like, in real time, I was trying to apply it back to my sport. So I think I'll try to-- - I'm just still probably as well. - Yeah, exactly. Just back to, basically, like, every time I was in a lecture, I'd be thinking, how is this gonna make me quicker? And I'll be sort of doing the reading around it, basically for me, like selfishly. - Yeah, surprisingly a lot of coaches in track cycling don't have a scientific, you know, and it's like, nor do you really think from an even standpoint. - Yeah, yeah. - It does blow my mind a bit, 'cause like very simple things you've learned, it's like, would answer very big questions in cycling, though, like, 'cause the coaches have big discussion with us about my, it's a very simple answer. Like, and I think, I only know it because I've been lucky enough to do a degree. - Yeah. - So, I think I took the fact that I knew my body really well, the fact that I think I know the science around it really well, and the fact that I've been like, I've been doing it for like, you know, 10 years now. It's been a long time. And I just thought, why can't I not be in the best coach in the world for me, you know? So, I was like, right, like, and then I thought, if I should choose any coach, who would it be? And it would be someone that has all those three things. So, I was like, right, that's just myself by the start. I'm right fucking you. - I'm right fucking you. (laughing) - So, I was like, so I saw no reason why I couldn't just grab my own plan really. And then, the only, like, it's obviously difficult, 'cause it is extra work. You've got to then, like, sit down and act your next 12 months. That's a little bit annoying. And I kind of put that off longer than I should, when I should just, like, get it down and sign. It always feels like it's-- - I can't relate. (laughing) - It always feels like it's like a never ending project. So, when your coach comes to you of a plan, you sort of know it's signed off, 'cause they've looked it and it's done. When you're doing it yourself, it always feels like it's never quite finished. So, one figure I learned over the last 12 months is like, you're never gonna make the perfect plan, but you can make the best education. get a guess for it, but once you've got it in, got it down, just commit to that and then make it work. Like make the decision right. Don't worry about making the right decision. It's all decided. - I always say don't let the pair fit get in the way of the goods. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And no programming is perfect, but you can make your best educator guess. And that's part of what's great about sport, isn't it? There's no guarantees in it. - Yeah. - So I think, yeah, that's basically when I start realizing, I think that's how I should be doing it. - Obviously, I still got a lot of support from Bruce, like the track sessions aren't run by me. Like, (laughing) - Is there a hit that's all the track? - That was just, (laughing) - He's really known to be lost for like 50 minutes. - Our coach is still, - It's really real. - Like our coach has still helped us a lot of track with technical stuff and timing. - Yeah, it's always so much you can do yourself. - Yeah. - Like in terms of like the planning beforehand of what I'm doing in the sessions, I think I'll shape it on this. - Really help. - Really help me. - Look, we're obviously, we've talked a lot about how, that period, you know, you had those six weeks, you locked in, you created your own plan, it did work. And I think pre-Paris, you know, you got down to 17 too, which was an incredibly competitive time against, you know, the other P1 options at that point. But, you know, ultimately we know that you, you know, you didn't get selected in the team, you were with reserve for the Olympics. - Yeah, I think, I think in the end, we want to say it was a case of timing. Like, I did, I think that time was the best we'd done in like the Olympic cycle, I think, like Paris. I think maybe someone, I think Alie May have gone quicker at like one of the nation's cups. But that, I think that was like four years earlier. So, I think basically, like in the history before that, it was basically the quickest P1 we had. So obviously I was pretty hopeful I'd get put in after that. - So, sorry, so this was during the trial, right? - Yeah, yeah, I did the trial. - Trial, like it was still, you know, eight or nine weeks away from the games and still fully able to be subbed in, but they just decided not to. And I think it was just the case that they were happy with what it was. And it was, let's settle rather than sort of keep pushing, like for something potentially quicker, but could, like it could, you know, split the team up in terms of off the line. So ultimately, yeah, I went as reserved, but it's still gave me like impetus and like something to focus on. You know, I went to the world straight after and did 17 to again, and sort of started my P1 life really. - Yeah, well, I've been pretty good at this. - I've been quite good at this. I kind of led you on the journey to now. - Yeah, exactly. - I mean, I do think though, like it's, it's a really interesting thing. And again, I appreciate, obviously, you know, like it's, don't drag up old wounds, but you know, like, there is that kind of interesting aspect of like, you know, you're there as the Olympic reserve, you have went, and let me also say feel credit to Ed Low, you know, he did a good performance at the games when something to, you know, like, - Like what do you do to qualify? - Yeah, and yeah, you know, like, they came in with a silver medal, you know, and deservedly so. You know, we, we kind of spoke about a little bit about it with say, like, Mark Stewart before the games, who then actually ended up riding at the games. - Yeah, yeah, he got out. - But, yeah, oh, wow, a bit better than that one. - That's barely, yeah. (laughing) - No, but yeah, like, being in that position where, yeah, you've done a trial, you are, you know, and on paper faster than the person who is riding the games. You have to keep training, 'cause obviously, you're at the games and you're the reserve, and that's the role, you know, which, which you signed up for, you know. - And Joe was getting faster, too, at the time as well. - And yeah, but like, it must have also been frustrating given that you were getting faster, and it's hard to, again, not to make it about faster than Ed, but just you were also on upper trajectory. Like, was there kind of, like, ever a conversation around selection with the coach? How did that kind of, how did that work, I guess, 'cause yeah, rather than just saying eight weeks out, that's the team, which is never seen. - So, you look like again? - It seemed like it was very like a possible thing to be subbed in, up until they realized that I was like a viable option, suddenly it became kind of not that possible. So I think it was just a case of, they were in a place where they knew they could get a medal. They were, like, it's like you got 17 in blackjack, like split or two, like, they just decided just to keep with what they've got. - Yeah, yeah, I'm stiff with this, sorry. - They just don't sit with what they've got, which is like, in one way, that's fair enough, like, you know, if you can get yourself a medal more safely than do it, but in my mind, I'd be like, "Why are you not striving to get "absolutely quick as possible?" - Yeah. - Every single 10th out of performance, as you can. But that's just where the difference was between the 10th out of mindset and mine. - So, and obviously, like, Johnny's being the good cop here, and I feel like there's an element as he's flooring with you massively. I need to be a bad cop, and if I was to play devil's advocate, I would perhaps suggest that you, you know, you perhaps weren't as race proven in P1, and also that you had perhaps a history of not performing in the standing start in races, like you would in training. - Yeah, and that's good. - And that's good. - Yeah. - It has to be consideration, doesn't it, when you are selecting the team? - Yeah, and I think, like, that's why I don't think it was like a clear cut, obviously, Joe should have ridden. You know, I think it was like, yeah. Sprinting is so short, anything can happen in that short time. And I think that probably was a consideration. I've never actually done it in competition. - Yeah. - And I'm sure that was a big discussion they had. But they didn't help when I was sort of like, watching the lads win the silver, and I was on the walk-byton, thousand more intervals, thinking of the kilo in eight weeks time at Worlds, you know. Like, it wasn't a great experience, but like, my mic like mentally, it was pretty tough. - Is Joe's jump to the next question? - I think I've got a full of joy of me and Joe actually, and it was the day the team sprints a bump turned to you. And then the two of us did like a wee walk-by. I've got, I've seen it. - Oh yeah, I do remember. So that was like, I was, they basically, 'cause I was obviously woven up last thinking, oh, I might get right in the final. They might sort of like roll the dice and think, you gotta use them. And then I realised I wasn't, whilst I was, and I was like, right, immediately, I was like, we got Worlds in eight weeks, and it's just going to do some thousand more intervals, just to see, at least feel like I'm progressing still. - Yeah, and just bumping into Joe and the bells of the arena. And just like, obviously, it had some just like, and he said it earplugs on, obviously, some I don't know, fucking German rock, filth, playing, or something just snows. - Like, yeah, I could just, I could feel like the steam rising off the body. - I mean, I also kept feeling like no form as well. And you know, you want to put it to use? - Yeah, that's something I know in this. - You're my warm up for the team, 'cause I was actually able to warm up and everything. Like, you're my warm up, I did like three peak power PVs on the walk by, and I was like, this is just classic, it's like, form with my life, and I'm just gonna be watching. - Yeah, well, because, 'cause even if, I think you actually, I think we did give a shout out to the games that you won the Battle of the Olympic reserves. And you know, I was always like, the day before the Olympic started, we had all the reserves of like, all the different countries went to like 200. - Yeah, 200, yeah. - Yeah. And you made more like nine two or something, right? - 9, 3, 0, yeah. - It's like the base of the race and F1. You know what I mean? It's like the teams that compete at the top. - And I was like, that was also tough, 'cause then I was like, that would have qualified me top four, I think in the 200 and F1. - Yeah. - And then like, and that was obviously on like a, it's a training session. So like, yeah, that was tough because I was thinking, if you do it, if you call a fun up there, you could make the semi's in a sprint as well. - Yeah. - And then suddenly it's like, could be a calum skiner in Rio where, you know, you go all the way. - Yeah. - I mean, that's the characteristic of cycling. It was like, it's your, it's your victim of your own success. And that you know, if you get selected for, well, any of the teams, not just the men's track sprint team, you know, go in there to play tiddly winks. You go in there to get a medo and that's the kind of level of people you're competing with within your own team. - Yeah. - Yeah. But like, no, like all crates of boys, they got the silver and other, I think like, - Oh, crates of, - Yeah. - But like, - I respect the gaffer. - Yeah. - Like as much as I, I think I deserve to be right, like to deserve to have ridden. And like, I think I should have also had that medo. It wasn't gonna, like me going, it wasn't gonna upgrade it to be in a duck. - Yeah. - So I think it was, it was still, no matter what the personnel was, that was the best result we could have had. So yeah, it was a strange one. Like, I, I enjoyed the, I enjoyed the experience, but it was very like, it was tough mentally to be honest. - Yeah. And the thing is, you know, you don't know the fact that you had to pivot to P1 and you had to go through all this, you don't know what that's now set you up for at the next games. And if that has actually been sort of the, the catalyst for your success in the 12-hour. - Exactly. - After a service. - And I think I'll do sort of take, like, there are definitely positives in it. Like, I never, I never ever would have tried to do P1 if it wasn't for like that whole situation. Like I would probably still be doing P3, and would be competing against Harry now for third wheel. So yeah, I think there's obviously positives to it. And I think I'm sort of learning more and more that, like, become like a well-rounded sprinter is all about like, if you can, if you're a good sprint, you can do P1,2 and 3, I think now. - Yeah. - But I used to think you very much want to optimize P3. I think now, if you're a good sprint, you can do all the events and you just need like a few weeks of those technical elements to hone in on your pitch. - Yeah, it's, it's funny as I take it because it's like, you know, it's that idea of like, specialism and generalism. You see it across other sports, even you see it in like rugby, you know, where you got backs, you can, you know, like, utility players. Like, it does seem to be the way that tracks sprinting, particularly, particularly more on the men side. Women's is still a bit more than that kind of P2, P3 sort of dominated, you know, in like sprint gear and sort of model. But, you know, like, the approach, but definitely in the men's, you know, you're really seeing, particularly when you see like, like, like, you know, came through Richardson, Dr. Hoffman, you know, and even Harry and Jeff. And those guys like, they were people, you know, all of them in Jack as well as you say, like, all of them could do fast standing laps. And then they almost broadened out the other parts of their persona. - Yeah. - Well, if you look at P1, it's like, you go from zero up here, and all the way to like, 160, or over 160. So like, if you look in at power across a range of cadences, P1 has all of it. - Yeah. So I think it is a very, very good mark of if you're a talented sprinter, it's like, can you do a good P1? Because you basically hitting accepts like, you know, length and sort of that speed endurance. You're hitting everything within that. Yeah. Like real talky, real strength based all the way up to like, coordination, really high cadence based. So I think it is like, yeah, as you say, there's a lot of sprinters that have started in P1, they've progressed onto a lot. I've sort of done it a little bit at the other, like a complete opposite. You were just late. Yeah. Just wasted eight years in the pro. So yeah, I think it was like, I don't think now there's as much difference between being a good, what I mean, not so much easy to say, because I do it, but like being a good killer rider and P1, I don't think there's as much of a gap between those, although it was thought. Yeah. And I mean, I guess just maybe not kind of generalize discussion as well. It's like, you see that like a lot of riders who maybe do it the opposite way of of having that approach of being like massive gear, it'll be long wait, like you see someone like me sure, yak of life, you know, that kind of opposite style of that, where there is no acceleration, you do just see that at the end of the day, it's always going to be a limitation. You know, someone like Rujik, you know, like just that ability to live with the acceleration of those top guys is always going to hold you back to an extent in a match sprint or a Kirin or that was, you know, yeah. Rujik's like a promise, because I hadn't beaten Riddik in I ever, and then my first year of doing P1, I think I had them in the apes at the world last year, beaten for the first time. So like, it's probably a good example of, you know, always being just behind and then like trying a novel, novel train and stimulus or something a bit different and you make it, you make it like a big leap. So I'm like a big, a big believer now of like obviously working on your weaknesses, but just working on like a sprinter as a whole, you know. Yeah. Well, again, I think I think what separates a sprint rider from a endurance rider is acceleration. You know, any any top endurance rider can still do a fast 200. You know, like, yeah, yeah, shout out Rasmus, but you know, but even yeah, I remember like in the lead-ups of the games, well, we've been in our training sessions, I don't know, like Lindsey DeVilder went like, nine six in a training session and all the bell jones like losing their mind, they're like, wow, that's it. I'm like, well, well, like, you're like, obviously, you know, like, like, yeah, the guy sprints at like 67K for two laps in the Madison, like, of course, he's going to be able to do that. Yeah, yeah. And if you look at like the peak power requirements for a 200, they're not that high. When you look at the peak power requirements for P1, it's like 22, 2300, like minimum. Yeah. So like, you're like, yeah, it's very much like a 200. There's a basis for a sprinter as much more accessible as it like an endurance. Yeah. The peace deck is pro to be sponsored by the Vaila Drum Shop. Are you going to take some inspiration from today's story as Joe Truman is, you know, taking the reins of your own training, the reins of, you know, your own planning. Well, that begins with getting the right equipment and picking your own equipment. And you know, where do you need to get your equipment from? The Vaila Drum Shop. The Vaila Drum Shop. Tell me about the Vaila Drum Shop, Lewis. You can get all your track cycling needs wheels, stems, frames, bars, helmets. UCI compliant ones. Change. Anything, anything you want. Non-UCI compliant ones. Tools is your life. Get them at the Vaila Drum Shop. Tubs. Tubs. Let's do it all out. Every single, but get the website. Boltz. But no, I drove it again, the website up. We don't need to, but you should at www.VailaDrum.shop. Free international shipping and take your track cycling to the next level today. I know. Back to the podcast. We obviously talked about the last 12 months. You've had a linear progression last 12 months across all disciplines. But I guess it wasn't always that way. When I think when I was growing up, and oddly enough, looking up to Joe Truman, I was a couple of years younger than Joe, but he was Billy Bigbollocks. When he was 18, when he was 17, when he was a junior, and you think you get an academy. It wasn't perhaps linear from that point. There was the initial success with Glasgow, with Jack and Ryan. But then, I don't know if I could be as so bold. You perhaps started to fall behind once I left. Yeah, once Johnny left, behind like Jack and Ryan. Right. I'd just be interested to know what happened in those initial academy years, as Jack was there, sitting in these bourbons or whatever, his total of his sense of pain to the day. Six wise and milking demotivated. I guess how things developed through those years, and how the stock price of each rider changed and how tough it was when Johnny left and stuff like that. I actually remember Johnny saying that Stan Timner had seen it as neat and a clattery. I was in the kitchen and he was like, "Joy to take a seat." I was like, "I don't know for a second." Because we'd recently moved town somewhere else, we moved in the house together. Oh yeah, well, could you be the one to break that news that you're moving out? It was the oldest thing that's been up there. To be fair, because I got an academy when I was like 21. Like, Ian Yeats hated the least. No, no, he hated me. I don't know. I remember getting an academy, and then I asked the people I was living with and they wouldn't really tell me. As I've actually got out of the building I was living with, but Johnny mentioned that I was a message of, I think I sent him a message. I was like, "I think I said something like, "I'll be great living with you." Because I was a bit worried about what I'm going to do, cooking all the time. I think I said, "Oh yeah, we can go cups together." And I think I spoke wrong, and he just replied, "You were literate bastard." I lost his life. I lost my life. It was this 23 year old. I don't know if it was Johnny. I was just looking for us to never forget. I'm so sorry. So, Joe, it takes me last night when I've got receipts. And he's only showing the softest of receipts enjoying them on the way there. I'm not going to tell all of them. Yeah, like, obviously, we were pretty like, like, "I'll housemate." Who about the house? I started. Joey Walker. You had Joey Walker's endurance guy and then Quill and Esadora's BMX. So, the Quill and Esadora's like one of our best friends now. We always, like, he didn't know we were moving in with him until the morning. We were three guys were moving in with him. I texted him. I'd said to him, "Oh, I never met you. I don't think you know how I am, but I'm going to be living with you for the next year." And he's advised, "Oh, right." I'm at the track of the minute. I remember you sent him these three shots of it. A bit messy. A hamster bit messy. It's like, "I got my parents dropped me off there earlier. So, I forget the bedroom." And I went in and asked, "Oh, yeah." Or in the middle of stockpots, it's like a complete, it's like cold as a sack, like full of families. Oh, that's all guys. The house that we left in at first was an absolute fucking dump. Like, you know, and it's the hard part. No, no, no, no. Before handcourt, we got moved into handcourt. So, handcourt, sorry for the listeners. On court is like, I think it's still going as an academy house. Yeah, so yeah, like one of the things within GB Academy is like, there are other houses that have just, every house has a story. But we put on clans. Yeah, it's fresh field. You're on court. Yeah, I mean, it's like school houses in high court. We were the Craig, right? Yeah, the Craig. Yeah, and it, but I mean, like, it was like the Sherrower, I mean, the Sherrower was literally like leaking into the kitchen. So, anytime Joe, well, and I also love that like, I remember at the point when it was like, mean, quiet, hot, Joe's must be Joe, you know, just my son would be Joe. It's like, yeah, like the water only leaks when he's having a Sherrower. I mean, if he or she did, but, but, but, but then also like, but it's just that thing at that age, where you're also like, oh, my God, it's a Joe. The other house, I was not the fault of the flat, the house, like, I remember trying to convince him, I was like, because I'm taller than you. I've got high shoulders. I was bouncing off. Oh, the badgering. High than his pants and off you. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, I'm done big, so it's just there. Yeah. Well, then, then the plumber, I remember like, the plumber came round and just like, gaslight, yeah, it was just gaslighting and saying, oh, no, it's the way you're Sherrower. I remember, I said, oh, fucking take your clothes off then, son. You know, like, go on, jump in. Like, jump in. Yeah, I was like, make it go on then. Like, if it's the way we were, Sherrower, and show us how do you wash yourself? Prick. Like, you know, I'm already back. You know, I'm about you. You like, the first thing I met, you're like, oh, I've got terrible insomnia. I was like, I was like, I was better now. I'm going to be going to the room for the first day. And just like, you know, like a popcorn bowl full of air punks. Just like, I'm ready to go. I just could not sleep when I was on BC. I mean, I couldn't, I was always doing a bad sleeper, but like, I remember I went through that period where I had like, contribute a lot to me leaving. It was just like, I'll actually fall. No, like, on average, fall. I sleep for like a month trying to train and then coming in for the fucking sexy end sessions. And it doesn't help. Doesn't it? Like, when we first got there, it was end of October. Like, clocks had gone back. And then we wouldn't see the sun because we forced, we had to ride in. Yeah. So we'd leave it like, half six seven, like still dark. We'd better have the sun coming out. And we'd leave after a massage of like half five. Or half five. We got to get massage. Did you get massage as well? I was kicked off the bed by Bradley Wiggins. He's always good. Oh, he's always good. He's the good boy, you know. Yeah. And then, so like, we wouldn't see the sun. I'm like, it really felt like, high up now. Messed up. I remember, I remember everyone around the bedroom was always saying to us like, we see you guys every day. Like, you know, people that work could do. in the office. Yeah, we are in like, you know, nine to five every single day. Yeah, just the brunette gym on the track. All the individuals were in like bloody Monte Chiara. You know, they were in all these beautiful places and stayed there. I don't think we could certainly enjoy Monte Chiara. No, but they were still somewhere. We were in bloody Manchester. I mean, I do remember our coach saying to us, there's no such thing as overtraining, only under sleeping and under eating. Yeah, and I was sad that I was fucking in some neck. And those years were some of the most fun because like, we really did grab this. I remember doing like, what was our interval session 30 seconds on? It doesn't sound that bad, but 30 seconds on, four minutes, off time, six. And it was absolutely full gas. And it doesn't sound like, doesn't sound that bad. Like, I do, I do 30 on 60 offs now. Like, that's holding like a tower. But now like that, like back in the day, it was like, oh, dread a Friday afternoon, because we were like every Friday. And it was like, I think I was meddy, meddy wrote that for us. Yes, absolutely correct. But like, we put in so much work in those years. Like, yeah, I think I hope. I think I really helped. I do remember just so much, so much of that time as well, yes, it's like, we were the one, because yeah, we were the ones who were just always there. Like, we were in the test bodies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were just getting, we were getting everything thrown at them. Like, I remember when we started, they were like, you know, we're going to get all this sport science. But then it's like, after like three months, we learned it's like, can I just build in any PhD student who was going and was like, yeah, yeah, we'll just want to just check. Yeah, I would just check. I think we had a weight quite we did. Like internal muscle temperature test. Yeah, we were just about the three centimeter thermometers in our quad muscles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then later on that week, we did like, we were sort of like the first volunteer to like the eccentric leg press program. Yeah, great thing. Rock both my knees. It's still like, yeah, it's used to this thing. And then we were the first test bodies for the isometric leg extension. And then when we were the first test subject for, right, this is the most cool thing I remember. Electro, the electro stimuli, the muscle that everyone was male. Yeah, like we did, we had everything thrown out. Well, that was all in a week and then we went to get for a race. And then we weren't going well. It was like, what's going on guys? I got a biopsie my quad 10 minutes. Those were good days. Yeah, they were good days though, because I feel like we, us as a four, you and me, Jack are right. We probably contributed a lot to like spring cycling knowledge, basically from all the testing that was done on. Like, yeah, most tests that have gone on, so be like, like, worth a soul, I think probably have done on us. Well, it's the funny thing is they were all done by Medi and then Medi went on to help the Dutch. So really, really harry and J, you fucking on us, you all as boys, you know, like, you're, yeah, yeah. Well, I really don't know, because I think like, it made me really interested that the science behind sport, like behind sprinting, because I think it was very much like, Monday would be a start. Tuesday or Wednesday would be a roll in effort, so you'd accelerate things. Thursday or Friday would be a flyer, then Friday would be like a longer rolling. And I think, like, that's sort of how all sprinters did it, I think. And then we sort of do all these tests done and lots of different stuff came in, that we started three jimble weeks and lots of things. Yeah, yeah, but like, sorry, I mean, I love that Joel's memory is all of like, you know, the science interventions. I was just remembering when there was just like a day when me and Joel, like, the things we didn't learn about was nutrition, when like, we just, as a, because there was the asda that's across the road from the Velodrome Manchester. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, well, so I got my chicken nuggets launched. Well, well, yeah, so sorry, I remember me and Joel were probably like, well, you know, we just need protein. We're just going to get a whole chicken. I mean, we went and got this, we went and got this like whole rotisserie chicken, brought it back to, and at that time the athlete lunch was just that tiny room with no, like no windows. Yeah, like I've been bagged. Yeah, I've been bagging a tally, which only had five channels. But yeah, like, I'm just brought this rotisserie chicken back, and it was just so greasy. And like, I think the two of us, I've seen the one of us just didn't eat because it was so disgusting that we were just cooked for the traction. Like, I remember just going for like, I think that you can get enough calories in like the hours we're doing like, I've gone from like, training like three or four times a week to like doing all this training. I was a cunny enough. Yeah. We just started doing like the milk diet, like, I'm trying to see trusty Melda. It's so expensive. Anytime any time you would drink water, there's a place where you're like, yeah, we're having that. So, of course, we do. I went for like 76 kilos. So like, like 84, a couple of months, and it was like, it was great. Yeah. You don't want to see my dexas from when the milk diet was suggested to me. I went up like 15k, like it was, like, I'm unhelpful. Milk diet. Mate, I'm not bringing back the milk diet. One of first, my first dip in Japan, I didn't have any protein checks. So I was like, like, I basically did the milk diet again. The milk diet in that, the tuna can't diet. I didn't feel any different from, you know, not having shakes. I felt great. Yeah. Yeah. I went through a period of my recovery from a session. Was a pain in my milk and a bag of prawns. It just used to be like, prawns all in his garlic prawns and shrugs. I was like, fuck it. Still frozen. I thought that was a prawn. I'm not going to pop. Just pop. I'll buy them in like, bulls. I'm going to pull them in. Oh, god. What I came from. They were, they were, we have got no money. Because like, the other part of the academy diet is you just have the free protein bars. It's like basically everything you consume. And it's just not good. Well, yeah, no quality. Joe, Joe, Joe. And the pressure was that here was at Quellen went through that meal replacement phase. You were just like, you know what? Just like, that's his meal replacement change. CMP, pro-ROMR. Yeah. So, CMP. I also remember, like, when nutritionists were like, you got to get nuts because nuts are like, like, that calorie depths that easy to get down and not much to them. I don't know. I think I left out like a bowl of nuts mixed nuts on the side. And we had like, the, uh, pretty psyched and the logistics when we come and like, doing a house check. And then like, one day later, like a really angry email, like, it's unacceptable. Joe's left food out again. I remember you were applying to say, oh, yeah, we'll get them to Australia. We'll let them know. Yeah. And then I was like, what was it? What was wrong? It was like, I left out a bowl of nuts. That's so strict about those guys. Yeah, God damn. That was the thing. We had house checks and stuff. I mean, again, for any listeners of the Louis Aliva podcast, we were the overreaction to everything that happened there. Yeah, well, yeah. But I remember that we won't name her, but there was the logistics person. Yeah. But I remember. One day, I came into the house and we can just send someone else's there. You know, yeah. I was just like, what the fuck's going on? I'm just going up. She said, "Jose fucking underwear drawer." I came in and I was like, "Oh, and I was like, "Dumbass." Not like, "I'm sure." I'm not even shutting you. She was in your fucking underwear drawer. And I'm just kind of like, I can't really like, you know, you're also like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." But you know, I can't really shout out a member of staff. Also, get the fuck out. Like, oh, yeah. There was a. I remember I was like, "We got in trouble for something like tiny." And then we had to like, clean one of the staff's car. And you're in the whole fucking car park. Yeah, and you remember someone on Twitter, like, back to. Because Brickety Sightkin, like, took a photo of her. They're like, "Oh, that's like, on a house of these cleaning and alloy wood." Someone like on Twitter was like, "That's terrible." He's already. Her name was like, her group chat name. Oh, yeah. Shit. I could've forgotten her name. Yeah. I think I took it a bit for granted, how good it was. Because I was 18, like, moved to Manchester. You've got like a, like, obviously, this house check. So it's a bit annoying. But like, all we did then, all we really focused on was like, "Eat and training." And it was what we needed really. I love how different our perspectives are. [LAUGHS] Like, I always tell the back thing, and those were like grim hours and a lot of training. But they were so fun when you're like, "In it together." And like, "I've got to try it." And we were just so lucky. Yeah. And it was like, "All mates have fresh to do." "Oh, it was fun, everyone. I was at freshers." But like, it felt like, like, it was really fun. And like, like, I just love those days. And it was like, "Focus it on training." So to be told the story, but I was shown at the window at Sheen. We like, so we was like, "If we ever saw someone in British Sightkin kit, we'd pretend to be like an angry, rather than you like, "Get us the rope." And then, so that usually was like one of the academy girls. They'd go, "Oh, yeah." Yeah. Obviously, we'd all live within like one square kilometre. So like, you'd very, very often see like our team backs on the road. We'd always shout and get a good response. And then, I think, Johnny, you were driving, but I got one of us were driving. And when we're just going past it, I see British Sightkin kit. We are leaving. We're going in the air. Yeah. You're warming up the vocal cords as you're, you know? Like, undone the seat belt. Got yourself out of the window. And it was literally like, it was poor number right. It's a shame looking back at us. Oh my god. Showns something like performance director for context. Yeah. Pretty like the guy that determines our fate, and our whole career is in there. Yeah. Like, like, like, the one who we'd last week seen giving someone a dressing down in tracks center, and just like, basically like, verbally ripping their face off. And yeah, because I remember it. Because like, we ruled in the window. You're a show off that fucking road. And then, like, literally, you just like, you just stopped dead, you know, that was Shane. I did that. I just skipped through like three traffic lights. You know, we take a different route to the track. It's the same number. - Yeah, we part. Like there's like two car parts, my part's like the far one right at the back. - Yeah, I remember thinking, "Let's just keep drawing in for a second." - Yeah. - Like, just, yeah, like luckily they peeled off, but like Joe's like reclined his seat fully back so he can't be seen. Like, yeah. (laughing) - I do remember thinking, "I do remember thinking, "we could be off the squad together." - Yeah, like, yeah, no, like, yeah. Yeah, fully I was like, "Oh, well, that's us." You know, like we had a good run. Joe got us meal replacements for a few weeks. - Like, (laughing) - It's not a long time job center. - Yeah. - God. - We were only given the wrong disclaimer that British play-cling knows and much more different organization. - I think these days it's like, there are a lot more independent now. So the guys that got on the academy, I think straight away they have to pay not a contribution to Ren, which like, I think, obviously, we were going less, like less. - You guys were getting paid peanuts. - Yeah, we were going to. - We were going to have to rule in it. - Yeah, I got an extra grand a year, which I was like, "Yes, "because of the bloody blood you know, "but yeah, like, "yeah, you were on like, "what, four and a half grand or something?" - Yeah, it was, yeah, it was, I remember it was $460,000. - Yeah, yeah. - But weirdly, didn't feel any, like, I didn't feel any poor. - No, I looked back at those days, I'm like, "How did I, how did I, "I never felt like I didn't have money, "but I'm not dead, "but you know what I mean, like, within reason?" - Like, so nowadays the guys pay, like, a contribution to their accommodations. So I think it's more, it gives them more independence, but it feels like this is not as much of a leap when, like me and Jack Quitton, well for Academy, for our podium, go find yourself a place and like, we're in two weeks just to find a flat and it was like a couple weeks before, while it was a bit of a nightmare. Well, now they give a lot more, like independence, I think, which is really good. But yeah, probably don't get out, too as many funny stories. - Yeah, I guess to bring this podcast back on track. You know, one of the things that really like, you know, and I think it is something that's kind of, just as crucial to the story of Joe Truman. But yeah, like, you know, it's kind of alluded to earlier, you know, like, yeah, you were part of, well, the group I was in, but you know, like, you guys really then, you know, the team go to rail, they win gold and teams, right, and gold and sprint, gold and keyron. And then all of a sudden they've got this group of, you know, you and Jack, who are both 19 at that point, you know, first year under 23s, you win under 23 euros with Ryan Owens as well, who's maybe like 2021 at that point, and then you're winning, you know, and you go straight into like, elite level world cups, you want Apple do or you want Glasgow. You know, and I remember that was like, just, yeah, obviously, even for me it was amazing, just 'cause it was like, yeah, seeing you guys actually step up and, yeah, just do the stuff that I've seen you guys done and the work in the background, but what? - Well, I was sorry, I was just, I was remembering when I was like, coming up for you, Jr. watching this, thinking, I'm better than them. If they're winning, I'm gonna be phenomenal. I mean, never materialized me, I ain't even finished the time. British records of junior, do not matter. - Yeah, yeah. But I mean, and also sorry, I was gonna say, like, you know, there was also that aspect and, you know, yeah, like, yeah, you were riding, you were riding more cups doing well, and yeah, it was at 19, doing what? You went 98, was it 97 in Glasgow World Cup? - Yeah, that's awesome. - Yeah, you know, like, yeah, and I mean, one small funny story is that we always refer to Jack as even Jack, because you know, you remember when Kevin, you know, say, well, if Kevin's given a ball to me or Joey, you're like, - Even Jack can do that. (laughing) - But that was usually in relation to some lifestyle thing, like even Jack's in the health food. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - When was he doing that? - Kevin. - No, Jack. - You know, healthy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a good month. You know, I think he dropped from six paints to four paints. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - But that's not milk. - Yeah, yeah. - But yeah, like, you know, and there was that thing where yeah, like, and again, not to put words in your mouth, but yeah, like I remember at that time, yeah, like, not just because I'd said you were gonna be the first guy to break 16 a kilo, but yeah, like you were really the rider who was stepping forward, you know? - I think, so from what I'm expecting, it was like me, Jack, from where I was at, we started doing all those really good world cup results and Euro-Rising things like that. And then the other guys that had a bit holiday after the Olympics and obviously Jason took like a whole year off. So I think at that point, I was really the only guy that's going for P3. So it's kind of, I wasn't comfortable, but I was kind of happy with how I was going. And obviously then Jason came back. And I think because I was the one that had been racing for the previous two years, I was kind of looking over my shoulder, thinking Jason's gonna come and take my spot, rather than at that point in my career, I should have been very much trying to take, you know, the most brins, most successful Olympian spot ever. - Yeah. - Said it was the other way around. It's kind of like, I was like, he's getting closer and closer. So I think it became more of like, like pretty honest, it's a bit, it felt more of like, I don't want to lose my spot in P3, rather than, you know, I want to take this spot from Jason, who's the most successful Olympian. That for me would have been a lot more motivating than what it actually was in terms of, "Oh, I want to keep my spot." - Yeah. - So I remember when I said, "Apple Dawn World's in 2018." I think we got silver. - Yeah. - And we like shared the P3s between us. And then after that, it became like, super back and forward between who was riding who wasn't. And also when he came down to like, Jason was obviously a lot more experienced, but there's a lot more experience of getting on quicker laps, like, you know, quick P1s, you could deal better with than me. So I think ultimately it came down to, he was more of a secure choice for getting on. I run it till he ends up coming to P1s, but like back then it was very much like, Jason was Mr. Reliable either. - Yeah. And so, I guess this is where it's interesting, like just that process for you as you say, that you know, yeah. It's also easy to forget how young you really were at that time. Imagine now when you see guys coming through that aging, 'cause Jesus, I was doing all that at that age. It's crazy. - I do remember thinking like, yeah, I felt like, I was 21 back, I felt like this has to be the high in my career. Like, like if I can't beat Jason now, I'd never will, but that's so stupid looking back, 'cause I'd like, like get stronger every year, really. - Yeah. And I think amongst all that is I hosted two years in Japan, came back from that and started out a bit of a back problem. By then, the end of 20, so that basically was 18 months of like trying to rehab, like probably similar to you, and I was going, but I was both doing reform, the sessions were of course, to go and acquire a lot. - Oh yeah. - But like mine, mine ultimately needed surgery. So, I am's up. - You trying to do mine back? - I was not a mine ultimately needed surgery loose. Yours was just, yeah, I wasn't the same. Yours was, I think yours was a little bit higher, wasn't it? You sort of, - I was 34, L34. - Yeah, and surgery was offered by just, wasn't for me. - For me, it was like, I was trying to push through to get to Tokyo, it's like being a viable option. And then obviously Tokyo got pushed back, and it was like, I wasn't going to be able to do another year before getting surgery. So I ended up getting surgery, and that basically put a stop to that, I think, the cycle for me. - Yeah, and like looking back, I kind of underestimated that. So that whole back problem, but it was a good two years in my career, where I didn't get consistent training for, between the, between 2019 and to the end of 2020. I didn't like, and I do a block that was normal. Like everything was like, it's not like I'm on my back really. So, when I finally got that sorted, I think that then, the moment is to train, like, now I'm behind cups and to free, go free again. - I just, I remember your Frankenstein bike as well, where it was like, it was doing, you rode these, doing roadways - Yeah, and I think that's something where, like, you know, again, having senior training from a pretty young age, but, you know, even you say 2019, that was when it was maybe an injury, but I think your training was always to an extent pretty compromised anyway. You know, I'd say even from 2016, I remember you having back issues, you know, and while not fully stopping you, yeah, like it was relatively limiting the amount of, maybe Jim you could do, the amount of, you know, just following you could take. - Well, I remember that back then it was like, Joe, Joe, I had to front squat, I had to front squat, I was back squat. Everyone would back squat on leg press, I was front squat on leg press, and it was like a big deal, it was like, oh, Joe, come back squat last. Like, we were so much in the mindset, everyone has to back squat, everyone has to leg press, everyone has to deadlift. Like, we were so sort of like, the stuff can I waive, is what a sprint needs to be. And now it's like, I'm a back squat, it's in 2020, and I've not, like, I've not done anything with the ballbell since 2020, everything's been very machine based, and I've been to be really intuitive around, and juniors around, like, how we're doing. It's like, even back then it's kind of like, look back on, I'm like, why didn't I just sort of realize it wasn't good for me? Like, my back wasn't dealing with this squat, like, do something else, but I didn't really have the confidence to kind of take it on myself. - And how is the back even ever this? - Oh, absolutely fine. Like, since I was the surgery, it's just basically just solved the issue. And now as long as I keep on top of like, what I know, historically, I don't think I've gone forever. So, yeah, as you said, you ultimately, I guess, lost that battle to Jason, you had your surgery, and I do remember, you were just, you were out the scene for quite a while. - Got into your patient. - Got into your piercing, kind of, kind of, yeah, you started buying more car heart, you know, move to the sort of trendier, a bit of Manchester, like, something else to live for, that wasn't cycling. They had to create a different personality. - Yeah. - And shave the old, and I'm as Joe's old here. - Yeah, you know, I had to get the buzz call on. - I was coming back, I'm going back. - Face your hair and I was talking about, that's what I was going to have in the start of this. - Oh yeah. - Okay. - I see, you don't feel floppy, but. - I know the less of this can't see it, but it looks already the minute. - I mean, I'm in your, I'm in your awkward phase a little bit, obviously, so it helps the hair, but yeah. - Yeah. - Just in case everyone sees Joe, which is getting now record apparently. - But, you know, ultimately, you did come back, you know, and then you're in trouble, you know, this podcast is the fastest P1, the world right now. And that's quite an arc back, because it was quite, you know, as we've kind of gone through, it was a real up and down period for you, but you found that motivation, you found what worked for you, dealt with your issues, you adapted, and I think that's maybe the story of your career in general. So I guess what drove you to continue, and I guess what do you credit your progression to, like through that time, before we got to this whole, like, you know, well, until we got to Paris? Like I'm pretty, like, obviously, a bit of a hangover from, like, Paris thinking I could have a medal there. Like, so that's like a big thing that drives me now, I feel like, like, I know I'm at a level that can get medals and jerseys, but that's what I need, you know, along with that, you need an opportunity to get it, and you need to have the team with you, I need to have like basically the chance to get those things, even if you've got like, like the speed. So I'm in a place now where I think we have got a team that can, you know, win world jerseys and team sprint wise, we can win a lot over the next three years. So that in itself is, like, really motivating, because we're at a point now where I think we can, you know, push on and challenge the Dutch, and I think we can, you know, become one of the dogguards, the dominant team sprint team over the next few years. And that for me is like really motivating, because I had that feeling, you know, I'd like 2017 when we were coming through fresh. And since then, the duck has been a bit of a dutch domination. It's always been like, who's going to be the best of the rest? Well, now I feel like we're in a place where we can actually push on and challenge them. And again, that's so motivating, because like that itself makes me sort of feel like I'm a young referee again, because it's point, it's like, yeah, sort of something novel and something fresh really. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was just going to say, I do just a quick remark of that. I think you almost forget that, don't you, you guys were really, you guys were the guys coming through. And then the Dutch just blew everything out of the water that it's like. And actually, there was almost that motivation side of things as well. It's like where you're really, you're pushing yourself, but then you guys nailed it in so many ways. You, you, you, you know, the times that you guys were doing in 2019, 2020, or what, what you would have thought in 2016 would have won the next Olympics. And then it's like, you're a second down on the Dutch. Yeah. You look at like Kelo, if someone said to me, a few years ago, you're going to do like 58 six in Denmark, like, I'll be like, oh, I'm going to be world champion. But yeah, like the time that we ruled on such quick times, but the Dutch are still still there. They're always doing enough to stay on top. So I think like a chance to basically sort of get what I think we deserve as a team and start when it medals, like actual, you know, jersey's not just medals is right. Really, really vital out for all of us. And you kind of, you said that like this, you know, you think this is the team that can achieve it. But obviously, there's a very new member of the team and that ritual, you know, was transferred in, obviously, after the games. And I, I'm always so curious, like, what was your initial reaction? Like, I mean, because I know what mine was. And I was just, I was in, I was in monocon, I was in a bunch of flat. So I was like, name drop. But I was at, I was at the gym. Sorry, I was just outside this thing on the gym. And they're like, right, so cool. Like, there's a cool, like, suddenly there's a cool. So I got on. And I actually remember hearing Matt on your podcast. I used to have podcasts of it, not so much these days. Go on. Yeah, it's gone, it's gone. It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. I gave you compliments all through this podcast. And you just threw a shout out to us, man. Hey, it's obviously gone. No, no, you got me up. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, I remember hearing one of his podcasts where you asked him the question, he can't, he said, no, but the way he said it, man, you think, oh, maybe you actually would do it. And then so it's always been the back of my head. He might have said it. So it wasn't like a huge, to once, it actually wasn't a huge shot. I know everyone was like, everyone claims that it was like, they're completely blind size and they had no idea about it. But I was kind of, you know, for 10 seconds, I was a little bit shocked. And I was like, oh, it kind of makes sense. Like, you can come here with really good support. You know, I'm for sure more than you could have. No, but it was about patriotism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he obviously feels very brilliant. So yeah, it's great to have him in the team when it's like, my next reaction to what I can't really remember. I was training for the world. I still very much focused. I think when they said he can't ride wild, as I was, I'm still focused on the world in eight weeks time. So yeah, if they really changed much from each of you, I think I kind of thought I was going to go for that point I thought I was probably going to focus on P1 anyway. But I guess then where it's interest is then how have you found that change even within the dynamic? Because yeah, like even also, you know, the team chemistry. Yeah, yeah, because because that team dynamic, even you think like Jack, Jack step to way, you know, you've got some new new young guns in the the Harry Jew of the Harry Radford Harry led them horn. You know, like yeah, like and then obviously, Rexerson coming in as well, like he'd in as well. Lyle. Yeah. Lyle Crowe. Yeah. New addition. And there's a lot of guys like a lot of young guys actually. So it kind of feels strange. Like I'm 28, which in most iterations of our team would be like, let me do like middle eight wise, but I'm sort of looked at how's like the old one. I'm 28, like I've still got like, I've still got a few years left. Like, like, but I'm looked at how's like the old wise one. Like you've always had like crystal jace on the team that like, yeah, someone who is actually old and wise. Yeah, there's like, it's obviously very different than it. And it's almost like we've all been sort of thrown together a bit more because before it's kind of like we'd all come through the process together. Right now, it's very much like lots of people have joined at lots of different times. So it's not like there's like a clique or one fact or another. It's all very much like we're all fighting for those few spots. Yeah. But I think Rich O's like, he's been good for the team because it's kind of he's coming and got challenged how a few things were. He's obviously that very competitive. And I think naturally, I'm kind of similar to that, but I've never ever asked the team has been kind of more like back. So I think it's allowed me to kind of be a bit more. Yeah. I think it's good. And at the end of the day, he's joined us and we've had up there. We've got we're close to the riverbinds, the Dutch. And it's our best result in years. So, it's really positive. One thing kind of then to look at the future. You know, you guys, as you say, there's the closest GBS men's team sprint have been in years to the Dutch as a best result. You know, consistently riding sub 42s at Worlds. We've got that new look team, you know, with Rich O's in two, Harry Leidenhorn in three, potentially, you know, other riders in the kind of pool with, yes, someone like Hamish Turnbull, obviously, other P1s as well. Like I guess looking at those next few years, like, you know, trying to really then bridge across that gap to that, you know, the bullet train. But you know, like the, yeah, that that almost seemingly relatively invincible Dutch team, like, yeah, what does that look like for you? You know, or how do you, how do you see that that gap? Do you think that gap can be bridged? And yeah, how can it be bridged? I think, I think, yeah, I definitely think it can be bridged. Like as a three or four, like the guys that went to Worlds, I can only really see us getting quicker as a team. Like, I think there's a lot of stuff we haven't even tried yet that can potentially make us a lot faster. Like Gary and strategies, we've not looked at that nearly as much as we can. Like I think we've got, as we all know, like, he is like a huge image before, so you don't have to physically get better, but we're better gear selection. You can get a lot faster. I, I, I guess I guess we just be a little bit more specific. We see gear strategy and, you know, I've certainly can't divulge everything, but you know, is that maybe looking at like within the raids or as soon as I'm going from raid to raid and since seem yourself at the final, like, no, or I'm just, get gears in terms of getting the best overall result in one ride. Yeah. So I think we can do a lot there. We just have two ones. We haven't had time to look at these things because we've only been together as a three for about a year. As you know, like, there's very few opportunities where you get to race as a three on the form. So like, when you're experimenting, like, you've sort of got experiment at major races, which we haven't had the opportunity to do yet. So I think we've got a lot of time to build there. But also, it's like, I've only been to P1 for a year, so I'm sure I've got a lot of time to find their. Harry's only been, Harry's obviously very young, like, he's only been pro for a full time for a couple of years now. Yeah. And Richo is always going to be stepping on over this next three years. So I think, like, in terms of personnel and in terms of, like, over-strategy and technical stuff, I think we've got a lot to gain. So yeah, I'm really positive for the future. Yeah. Well, positive no tend on. Either way, I've had a lot of fun. I'm sorry for my first response being to correct your spelling. That sounds like very much like 2015 me. I was an asshole. I'll never do it again. I promise. I use in past tense. There's crazy. Use in past tense. There's crazy. Yeah, but no, it truly has been a pleasure. Right, it's your all-night you want to say cheers guys. Bye-bye. Yeah. Bye-bye. Cheers, mate. Wow. Wow. What an insightful gentleman. Who would have thought it? Joe Truman, first man ever, sub-sexty. Incorrectly called. Incorrect. Incorrectly called. Yeah. He did get there. Yeah. No, all of us were that lucky. But really, really interesting. Like, you know, aside from all the jokes, which I enjoyed, and the Academy stories, which we knew we were going to get. Yeah. Actually, I mean, even though he was hiding it, like it was state secrets, some of his training. It's always been Joe, though. Yeah. It's always like, yeah. You always say everyone's out together. Yeah. He's such a lovely guy. He's so suspicious. Even any times, you know, in training, he'd be like, yeah, like, anyone else knowing what time he'd did. He'd be like, fuck. But no, no, no. Like, and again, I think obviously, you know, as much as I spent this whole podcast compliment, Joe, like, yeah, he has always been, you know, it truly has always has been a really engaged, engaging athlete, you know, takes a lot of ownership and responsibility for his own performances. Like, it's going to be a healthily obsessive. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'd say he's probably maybe matured into it. Yeah, that's fair enough. No, but again, like actually, yeah, and I do, I think he was, we kind of said a little bit, as well with like, I think having someone like Richardson's team will really help bring you up, because yeah, like, again, you know, he has someone who's always been, you know, he came here and in the way he talks about things, when he's motivated for something. You're in the exact kind of six week plan of the towards team P1. I'll be honest, half the stuff he probably will have done might have even been bought, but the thing is the guy when the guy believes in something when he's motivated for something and gets a lot out of himself, you know, he really does, also a set plan might have been actually been really good as well. Joel does coach. Well, I never know, because he won't tell us. Yeah, well, never know, but yeah, you know, I think truly like, yeah, the level of rider that, and again, like, level that he was at as a 19 year old, in, I think, in 2016, the gear, you know, he'd be doing like, 97 on that 110, you know, he's mental. I don't know if it was 110, but he was always better. Yeah, anyway. But yeah, like, so I think, no, I think that that was really nice, just nice to hear that as well. That ownership that he took and takes for himself as well. Yeah, and, you know, I really believe in him. So I think, you know, what I say is a bit of that team sprint where they're going, you know, the ceiling, the progression that's available, you know, I totally back it. I'm so excited to finally, you know, see a team ticket to the Dutch, and I think they've got the right people in the right place, you know, with the right motivation to get the job done. But yeah, we'll wrap up there for this week, but thank you for listening. Have a minute. And it's goodbye from me. It's goodbye from me. Goodbye.