Episode 443 - Peter Gallagher

(piano music) - Hi, this is Petty LaPone. - This is Alice and Janie. - This is Matt Baumer. - This is Donna Murphy. - This is Nia Vardales. - This is Jesse Tyler Ferguson. - This is Beanie Feltstein. - I'm Octavia Spencer. - This is Ben Platt. And you're listening to Little Loan Facts with my favorite person on the planet, along with Levine. - Hey, okay. - Welcome to Little Known Facts, a podcast where you will hear unfiltered, raw, honest, and uniquely funny interviews with artists you love. As they talk about the art, they love to make. I'm your host, Elana Levine. ♪ Hey, I heard you made an inspiration ♪ ♪ He's a lot of friends with some revelations ♪ ♪ Little known back to the day ♪ ♪ And little things gonna be okay ♪ ♪ A-okay ♪ Little Known Fact about my guest today. He's been the star of so many of your favorite films and iconic TV shows, but a really unique fact is that he has been a star of a Broadway show for each of the past six decades. That kind of longevity, well, we'll get to how that happened in this episode. Welcome the extraordinary Peter Gallagher to the podcast. Enjoy. ♪ Hey, I'm okay ♪ ♪ Hey, I'm okay ♪ ♪ Hey, I'm okay ♪ Hey, everyone. My guest today is Peter Gallagher. Peter has delivered critically acclaimed performances on film, television, and stage. Some of his film credits include "Sexlizing Video Tape, American Beauty," the player, "Short Puts," the idol-maker, "Dream Child," while you were sleeping and so many more. On TV, you've seen him on "Grace and Frankie," Zoe's extraordinary playlist, "Grazenademy," Law and Order, "New Girl," sorry, "Lord and Order," S-V-U. "New Girl, "Covered O'Fares," "Togetherness," "Californication," "Rescuing Me," and, of course, "Guys, the O-C." On Broadway, he is starred in "Guys and Dolls," long days journey into night. The real thing, the Corners Green, a Doll's life, noises off the country girl, Grease, "Hair," on the 20th century, and now my love's, "He is Currently Performing," again on Broadway and left on 10th, with his glorious co-star, Juliana Margulese, Peter Gallagher, welcome to the podcast. Hello. Hello, Alana. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you. Oh my God. Well, we were talking. Bonsid after that list of credits. I'm glad I didn't do it all last week. You'd be exhausted. I know, and as you know, anyone Googling this man, this is just like a thumbnail sketch of the things. What, first of all, congrats on a glorious career. Oh, that's awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's miraculous. And I'm so grateful and surprised and delighted that I'm still doing it. I mean, it's everything. It feels like I started 10 minutes ago. So it's-- Yeah, time is a crazy, crazy thing. I know because I have a brother-in-law who was in the B.L.Z. above, that you were also a part of that singing group. I think you might have crossed paths at some point. But so obviously, singing has been a part of your life for a long time, but probably even before you got to tough. So can we go back before we get to this beautiful play by Julia Efron left on 10th, which gutted me and made me laugh in equal parts? Yeah. Yes. And you're so fantastic in it. The two of you together-- your whole cast are so insanely talented. It's ridiculous. But let's go back a little bit. Because in all of the deep dive about you that I did recently, it doesn't feel like you grew up in a house that was really talking about theater a lot. [LAUGHTER] That might be the understatement of this century. How did you fall in love with performing? When did you know you could sing like that and do what you do? What was like the beginning? Well, it's-- you know, like much of my experience in life, it was just began with suspicion. Very little anything definite or confirmed, or-- and it really started with the Dean Martin Show. And we had a TV-- a very old TV that was very intermittent in what it could receive or what you could see. I'd watched Dennis the Menace in like, "Triplicate." You know, right up by the screen. But one thing it always got was the Lawrence Welch Show. Thank God. Parents loved. I would sit there and watch it. And I think it was after the Lawrence Welch Show or something like-- I don't remember when it was on-- it was a Dean Martin Show. And I watched Dean Martin. I thought, "Oh my gosh, there was a world out there where people are happy and have a time." And he-- there was just something about him that I just loved. And so as a little boy, I would do Dean Martin impressions. For-- I mean, for myself pretty much, I mean, not always in front of other put occasionally. And I was this odd little kid. That's Gallagher. He's doing Dean Martin again. Everybody loves somebodys. And-- but I had no confirmation that it was worth listening to. It just gave me, you know, happiness. And the first time I sang in public was in the music teacher, Mr. Bissell's music room. And I was the only person not asked to be in the musical. But because I guess I was-- maybe I was asking for attention at all, or maybe I was-- I don't know. But I remember we were learning a song, and I must have been misbehaving or something. I don't know. And he said, Peter, get up and sing that in front of the class by yourself. And if I could have run into traffic and ended it all right there, I would have. Because I was mortified. I was-- I was the shy, shy, shy kid. And I was mortified and terrified. And I remember standing up and wishing my life would end. And-- but then just something inside me kicked in. I said, I'll be god damned if you want to bring me down and try to embarrass me and hurt me in front of these people. So I'm going to sing this fucking song the best way I can. And I had never sung in public before. I had never sung-- you know, music-- we didn't have a record player growing up. As my mother was a scientist, my dad was-- I had come back from the war. Was it worked on billboards and advertised. Dad was a coal miner. They were basically immigrants. My mom was first generation trying to figure out how to raise three kids and make it in the world. And entertainment theater. And my-- no, we're talking about life. You know, they were from the-- Right. My dad had come back from the battle in the bulge and the Normandy invasion and didn't talk. And so I just remember that moment where I thought, I'm not going to let you-- I'm not going to-- I'm not going to fall. I'm not going to crumble here. And I just reached down and sang the song-- I can't even remember what the song was. But I found something in the music that supported me. And I sang it. And at the end, the world didn't burst into flames. And I didn't collapse and die. And I think I must have really pissed off Mr. Bissle, because it was probably better than-- because the next thing I knew, he sent me to the back of the room where there was a string base, which I couldn't keep my hands off. And then he sent me out of the room. But he ended up bigger and incredibly important person in my life, because he's the one who introduced me to the theater. And then after many hours of pacing up and down the hall with some assistance from my French teacher when he was casting the next show after the one that I was the only one that wasn't in it. Right. This French teacher encouraged me to go and just-- and I didn't sing for that show either. But there was another thing I suspected. I could do an English accent. Again, I'd never done it in front of any living human. But I'd seen some old movies and things like that. And I'd got that part as Mortimer and the Fantasticson. So that was the eye opener of eye-opener is that there was this place in the world. And for some weird reason, I felt like I fit in. And you could talk to girls because they were doing the same thing. And you had a context. I could not open my mouth. I could not talk. Right. I couldn't-- I had no social confidence in that way. So in that construct, in that paradigm, in the theater, and I knew what the outcome was. I wasn't worried about-- oh, who knows what's going to happen at the end of the show tonight? Everybody might get machine gun to death, or fall over, or be fired, or you knew how it was going to end. And it was just about process, about getting there. Where was this? Where was Mr. Bissell? Where was the school? - My first home was in Yonkers. I'm Bronx River Road. We lived in the Bronx and moved around a little bit. Housing was tight, immediately post-war, which was, I was not born immediately post-war, about 10 years later, but now moving around, we ended up living in my grandparents building on Yonkers in Yonkers. And then when I was pretty young, we moved up to Armonc, New York, which from my mother was like moving to British Columbia. I mean, I don't think she left the house, but she all said some social foldias and issues and things. And to Byron Hills High School, this wonderful, wonderful high school, because IBM had just moved to Armonc. And so all of a sudden the tax revenues went through the roof, and we had the greatest teachers, and we had a new school. And my older brother, I was the mistake in the family, which Mr. Bussle made me aware of also a young age. (laughs) And my older brother and sister had, there was no school, because they ended up going to private. All our money and resources went into educating my brother. (laughs) And, but this wonderful, wonderful, I'm still in touch with my pals from high school. And it was Mr. Bussle, really, who had worked in New York and played, in fact played for Lily Tomlin in new faces of 1952, and had a very, you know, passionate, and informed view of how things should be. And I learned so much from him, you know? - So after that inciting, humiliating incident, and I love, I mean, you remember that feeling like it happened yesterday. We never forget those really like awful, seminal moments in our early childhood that sort of set the stage for everything that comes after. It sounds like you and Mr. Bussle came to an understanding at some point. Have you ever seen you perform professionally? - Oh sure, oh sure. And I brought him to the premiere of my first movie. And he came to see me in Greece and the hair. - Okay. - It was very proud. But you know, it was all the way, I was never one, he thought it was gonna go anywhere. - Mm-hmm. - And he also was very reluctant to encourage anybody, because he'd seen so much heartbreak and disappointment in his friends. - He'd lived it. - He'd never really made it. - Right, right. And so when you went to college, were you already interested in, I mean, we talked about the B.L.s of VUGS, shout out to my brother and law, Michael Miller. - Oh, Michael Miller. - Yeah. - The doctor. - Get out of town. That's crazy. Yes, I know, Michael. - Yeah. - I think it's the same, he stayed in Boston, right? - Yeah. - No, oh my goodness. - Yeah. He's the best. He's the best. So I have listened to so many B.L.s above's recordings, and I know so much about it. And it was a very, especially when you were there, like that was sort of prime, a prime B.L.s above moment, but the years that you guys were there. But I wanna know, like, is that already the beginning of like seats planted? I'm gonna do this professionally. You talked about suspicion. I was suspicious about things. When you went to Tufts, what did you think you were gonna do when you got out of Tufts? - I didn't have a clue. I really didn't have a clue. And I didn't really know why I was going to Tufts. I, you know, education was so important, but honestly, by the time I came around, my parents were old to begin with. And by the time I was 10 years younger than my brother, nine years younger than my brother, six years younger than my, they were exhausted. You know, so all this energy went into getting them. My brother and sister are educated, and I'd go to their graduation, that dude. When I came along, it was like, the college tour is a dent, can I borrow the keys to the car? Where are you going, McGee? You never call me by my name. I think I should go see some colleges and stuff like that. Oh, all right. And so he gave me the keys to the car. And I drove through to England by myself. - Oh my God. - And a college tour for me was like, driving down the main drag, making a left, making a right. Yeah, that looks good. - That looks like a college. - Yeah, and then I didn't talk to anybody. I didn't, you know, but I was free. I was out and I didn't, I honestly didn't have any, I never thought in a million years I would become an actor or a singer. That wasn't even on, I never knew my father carried the weight of the world on his shoulders. And all of a sudden it was work. And we never went, had fun or, you know, vacations and my mother, as they said, was, I'd adored her. I would be in a hole in the ground if it wasn't for her. But she, you know, she had real, she had real, she suffered from depression and from social phobias and really just, and she was brilliant. She helped develop penicillinja in the Second World War. As a bacteriologist, when she was assigned to this little four person research team 'cause what, looking up for her brother was blown up in Anzio. And so, I just kind of went there with a heavy heart, or just like, you know, what am I doing? I said, "My brother got an economic, "well, this is my little known facts. "I have an economics degree. "It's still in the box. "It's never been opened. "Thank God for everybody." - But it's always there to fall back on, Peter. - But I didn't study anything I love. I didn't know, understand that you could do something you loved in life. I saw why I started to add and it was really like, you know, you work hard, you're miserable, and then you die. And I was cool with that. But I just didn't have any direction. And you know, I was like the Beels of Bubs. Again, that was, I had been doing musicals in high school, but again, I never thought I would do it again. And Beels of Bubs was a great thing that I fell into where you could have that camaraderie, that team kind of spirit and-- - And a community. - And community, yeah. And that's really a huge part of it, is to have your family. It's all about the people you're with, doesn't matter whether the show's a hit, a flop, or whatever it is, it's about the people you're with. I mean, it's much better when it's a hit. Everything is much better when it, I mean, not always, but usually. - You, if you could kind of look back, you know, I read this huge list of credits on Broadway and film and television. What do you think, what do you think was like, and maybe it's hard to distill it down? My lucky break was if I was gonna like ask you to kind of fill in the blank. I mean, there's probably many as you look back, but what do you think was like, I think I have longevity because of this. - I think I have longevity because it was the first long word I learned. And I remember, I think it was like kindergarten. The teacher wrote my thing that I had perseverance. I didn't even know what that was, and I asked my mom, so that's very good. It's good to have perseverance. And I think I have perseverance. I don't quit easy, because I don't feel like I have options. You know, there was a period of time where I was questioning everything, and I really looked for options. I really looked for, I could drive a cab. I could, but I couldn't really think of options. So it was, it's like living without a net. You know, you find a way to persevere, but if there was one moment, well, again, it's where suspicion transitions into belief. And there have been several moments. The first one, you know, it was at an open call, you know, that's how I got my first two jobs, Greece and hair, the revival of hair in '77. And they were all from open calls, and I was always, I've told the story before, but I was always number 2000 something. You know what, how early I would get to the place I was number 2000 something. And you'd get the end of a blocks, blocks, blocks, blocks a long line, you'd wait till 10 a.m., and then you inch forward, blah, blah, blah, go up the stairs and you're, and, and I, and Vinny Liff was holding auditions for Greece. And he had to sing a 50 song, and I was gonna, make it interesting and stick it up and try to like, and then I heard the guy in front of me singing, I thought he was so great, and I said, no, man, I'm just gonna reach down and try to sing and like, I mean it. And I had never, was it for my first real being heard by someone, a pro. - Right. - And this, I was terrified. You know, I'm always terrified. You just have to make, make, make friends with terror. And, and I went in and I sang that song, put your head on my shoulders, and Vinny Liff looked up and he said, that was beautiful. And everything inside me collapsed. I could barely keep from crying. I almost fell over and Phyllis Grande was piling the piano and I thought I'm the luckiest person in the world. I don't have to get this job. He's just given me reason to keep showing up forever. 'Cause I'm not crazy. I've often thought the, the kindest thing the most powerful thing you can do for someone. You could give them reason to believe they're not crazy. And I thought maybe I'm not crazy. Maybe there's a place for me in this world. And that was huge. And then the other time I filled this story too, when I was re-evaluating everything, questioning everything and running the tear at all down and rebuild it. And when I was sort of coming back out of a period of growth, a real growth, but still very little confidence, I was supposed to audition for Long Days Journey in tonight. And I didn't because I thought I'm not good. There's nothing I could do to this. This is the play that the two shows I always want to do in my life, Long Days Journey in Sky, and Guys in Dallas. And here it was an opportunity to try to play Edmund and I didn't go. And I'm Maniae Zimburg. My will love forever. I always have loved him. He called me up and he said, "Hey Peter, it's Maniae. I'm Jewish, but half of me is Italian. And if you don't go in an audition for this play, I'm going to break both your fucking legs. I said, "Thank you, Maniae. Thank you." Of course, the irony of like thanking somebody for breaking the legs, but he cared about me. Which is not something that I was really accustomed to. Right. Wow. I just wanted for people who don't know who Maniae is because I did a Neil Simon play that Maniae produced. Maniae Zimburg is truly one of the great menches of the world, an extraordinary producer. He was Neil's longtime producer, but did many things. And the idea that he sort of, he would adopt people. Like, you were a son to him. And that's so beautiful. I just wanted people to know who we were talking about because he's really, he's a rare human being who really loves what he does and loves the artist that he gets to work with. And so that started to interrupt. No, that's absolutely true. He is just a gem. And he's still around. So he saved me in a way that day. I mean, I don't know what would have happened. I wasn't going to go in again because I, but the fact that he, I was willing to, you know, shoot myself in the foot, but I wasn't willing to let Maniae down. Right. Right. And then you played Sky Master's it. Like the idea that there were these great roles and, and I, that's indelible for me. I like skipped going to temple on a high holiday because someone offered me tickets to see guys and dolls. And I was like, this is my son. It's okay. God will understand that I am watching this show with you guys. It was, I've heard you say that it sort of wasn't exactly what you thought it would be in terms of the experience that you had fantasized about. But I will only say that as an audience member, I had no idea that there was anything except, um, four leads and everyone else in that show, channeling the greatest production of that show that ever could have happened. And you were funny and handsome and charming and everything Sky Master's in should be. Your voice was like dreamy. Absolutely dreamy in that role. And, uh, thank you for that performance. It was life changing for me. Oh, thanks. And thanks to Frank Lester and Abe Burrows for writing that show. Can we talk about sex lies and videotape, which was the hugest, hugest thing to happen in the world of independent film and introduced us to Soderbergh and all of you James Spader and Dmitry Lorsenjakamo, like that was, that was seminal, um, for a lot of people in terms of what moviemaking could be. Um, was that a good experience for you doing it? That was amazing. It was. That was amazing. It was great. But tell me a little bit about what you remember about that shoot and that experience. Well, the first thing was, is that I got, was sent that I was in L.A. in a hotel with my wife. She was working producing something and a commercial, I think. And I was just tagging along and I got, hey, listen, um, I want to offer you this movie, sex lies and videotape. We'll send you the script and the director will like to meet you if you like it. So I was all right. And so I read this script, you know, at night and I thought it was just amazing. And then I fell asleep, went to bed, got up in the middle night and said, hey, how could it be that amazing? Was it really that amazing? And so I got up and I didn't want to wake my wife up so I locked myself in the bathroom and read it again. And it was still amazing. My role was needed work, but I could see what you could do and where you could go with it. And my only question myself is, what happens if this guy thinks it's like really a autobiography? What happens if he's clinging to this notion of what it is and how he sees it? This will be interesting. So I met Steve and he had this huge afro and um, and really we had just hit it off. I said, Steve, how do you see this movie? Well, I kind of see it as like as a black comedy. He said, I'm in. And he said, listen, you know, I didn't really develop your role very well. So that's okay. Do you like to collaborate? I love it. No problem. We figured out. And I'm in. And um, and then we we met down in Louisiana in rehearsal, a really productive, wonderful rehearsal time where there were no producers because the budget was so small and it was split up among a couple of groups that nobody was really, you know, there was nothing that huge at stake and nothing was going wrong. So we were just down there on our own rehearsing this show. And uh, and it was delightful. It reminded me, it reminded me the first time I worked with Mike Nichols. You know, it just goes to, you working with the best is the easiest thing you will ever do because really what they want to do is tell the story the best way they possibly can and they don't care who comes up with the idea or what it is. It's all about, you know, as we say in the play process, right? And um, and so Steve couldn't have been more collaborative, which just excited me. I found, you know, he gave me such freedom in terms of finding things that, you know, weren't necessarily obvious, but I thought were hysterically funny. And, and of course, I didn't realize the extent to which I was such a despicable human being. But I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't really thinking about I shouldn't. Well, we love, we have to love all of the characters we play. You can't think of it like that anyway. Right. I remember when, when they, when the, the ad for the, in the Hollywood Reporter came out and had the four of us on the couch, and there were these glowing quotes, Harvey Weinstein picked up the movie Harvey and Bob at Miramax. And there were these glowing, we were on a couch and they're glowing quotes about each of the actors in from reviews except for me. There was nothing pulling, pulling talent. I got some knock on what the great notices. But there was nothing next to my picture. I call how, how, how hardly I say, Harvey, what the fuck? I said, do you think the movie would have been better had I been nicer? Or, you know, in some, what do you think? Do you understand? I mean, we were all contributed to the success of this thing. How could you put this ad out there and and not have anything next to me? Oh, yeah. Okay. We'll fix it. We'll fix it. And they put out another ad there. But it wasn't oversight. Yeah. Well, we don't know. Yeah, it doesn't matter. No, no, guys. But because I think there was a concern because people had very powerful reaction. I mean, I remember what to bike. I was shooting a picture with our son was just, just had just been born. I was buying clothes for him and my first little baby in, in New Mexico and, and the person in that, at the store was so helpful. She was amazing. She could, oh, this side, this, this, and she said, excuse me, I'm checking out. Do I know you? I don't think so. Do we go to school together or something like that? I don't think I want to talk. So I don't think, I'm an actor. I said, no, that's not it. I said, and I said, I just did this movie, sexualized music. You bastard. And, and I said, well, thank you, I guess, but her response was so powerful and visceral, which I appreciated, you know, because you, you know, you should have responded that way. But I think people sometimes confuse the, you know, the job and the, and the reality. But when you, I wouldn't have changed, and I love working with Jimmy and Andy. And you know, you guys were all, you guys were incredible. I would imagine that the, the opposite experience was when you have this amazing job come up. And I know from Catherine, your daughter that, you know, you had to move your family. to LA for the OC after you had been raising them, but their response to that character, the woman in New Mexico selling you clothes would have not yelled at you in that way, but wished that you were her dad as well. I mean, that show was a gift, I imagine. Oh my goodness. Reading that again, it all starts on the page. Reading that script is, oh my gosh, this is the best show ever. This is exactly the story we should be telling post 9/11. The amount of Emily that's still hangs on to their beliefs and their humor and is not afraid to embrace an outsider and that's America to me. Not the xenophobic kind of direction that some were urging us to go in. I thought, of course I might have read too much into it or whether, but I adore it. I love those kids. I love doing that. I know, but when you talk about lovingly and respectfully, the relationship you had with your dad and then the dad you are on that show, those are very different ways of parenting and how incredible to sort of obviously be that in real life but get to be a role model for how to be a parent. You know, that's TV shows on network, they're in everyone's living room and it was like kind of an incredible thing to see that kind of generosity and warmth and like everyone wanted you to be their dad. It's, you know, it was just, it's a great business because if you stick around long enough every once in a while, wonderful things can happen. I was on the autographed line for a left on 10th just two days ago and this young couple, I think they were from, I didn't ask. I think the sound like, the sound like Glasgow Scotland, but she was five months pregnant and this was her husband and she was shaking because she had come from difficult circumstances and she had no good male role models in her life or father images and she depended on Sandy Cohen. Oh my god. And she was shaking because she said, I have a life that I could never have dreamed of and I chose this man here because he was the most like Sandy of anybody I knew and he was loving and supportive and it just made you feel so grateful to be able to contribute. I mean that's what we hope, you know, I always say the greatest pleasure one can have is contributing to a story that has a place in the world that you live in and that was certainly true with that. And yes, I loved my dad. I adored my dad. He just didn't have, he had suffered a lot. His mom died in his arms when he was seven. His dad was a colon monitor. He went to war and you know, he didn't have the capacity to really understand how important he was or how broad expressed himself for to have free. And how to relate to you. I mean, it's right. You know, I wish thing of knocking you down before you, so you know, it's just Gallagher, you're a big wheel. I said, really, yeah, with small spokes go clean the gutters. You know, so there was a, I loved them and I just couldn't reach them. So he called you McGee, he called you Gallagher. And had lung head. And lung head, but not Peter. No. Well, you're playing Peter now a character named Peter. And, and you know, do you know offhand how many Broadway shows you've done? Like many. I kind of do because I just did a thing for Playbo where they had all these playbills. I think, I think I'm just shy of it doesn't. Okay. Okay. So something drew you back. A thousand performances at least. It's crazy. Six decades on Broadway Bravo. Um, bananas. That's bananas. How do you even And you look exactly the same, which is also annoying to the rest of us, but that's my most you. Um, talk about what it was about this play. Uh, you know, that you thought, okay, I'm going to devote a lot of hours to learn lines and eight shows a week. It's a lot. So can you talk about what spoke to you? Descript as soon as I read the script, I thought, oh my gosh, this is a great part. And this is a great story to be, excuse me, this is a great part. It's a great story to be telling right now and telling and serving an audience that I think is sometimes underserved, you know, people my age who can afford to go to the theater, who are often were, you know, trying to catch up to popular culture and see what the latest thing is or whatever, but it's not every day that it, you see a story that hits you where you live, where it's speaking to you where you don't need there's, there's all you need is a ticket. You don't need anything else to for admission. And um, so and it was a chance to work with Susan Strowman who I suspected was going to be, I suspected we were members of the same tribe because we were about the same generation. Then we had experienced the Broadway before AIDS, which was an unbelievable place. And then the world we knew disappeared almost overnight within a few years. Everybody you knew that brought you up that believed in you that occupied the audience, the seats in the audience that were about writing the next amazing show that was going to break, you know, which going to take us from where we would learn from the guys that created it and we're going to take us to a new place. We're gone. But she wasn't and I wasn't and there's still a few of us around and that remember how you could work and be respectful and kind and strong and have vision and be, you know, and and and I was right and she's she's she's magnificent and uh and they can't add juliana and but it was the script um and you know it's it was a dramatic thing that happened to Delia Eiffren who also happens to be a wonderful writer. And in the hands of Darryl Roth who's also from that era, an era from you know before um so it was a real no-brainer. I mean that was a little I hadn't eight shows a week. It doesn't get easier. Um how do you learn lines? Do you have for people listening? Do you have a ritual or do you hire someone to help run them with you or do you have a process? The play is about you know two people who find each other after losing their first spouses and come together and fall deeply in love unexpectedly and then without I don't think it's a spoiler alert because the you know people have been able to read about it right when they fall in love the character based on julia gets really sick and then miraculously because of medicine science and her her new husband's love and the power of that she gets well and uh and there's a kind of happily ever after feeling to this play but it's harrowing for a time and hilarious it's all the things plus the set is just extraordinarily beautiful it's such a New York story within all that anyway I just wanted to give people context who haven't had a chance to see it yet but it is very wordy Castelia Efron and her sister Nora loved and understood words better than most um how did you learn the play? um this one when I'm on my own and like when I did the country girl I had a billion reliance too and I actually had to hire somebody to I wanted just to be I wanted to learn the whole show and have someone run them with you or to everybody's part and yeah but with this show I just it's like anything else you just got to do it stop thinking about it so I find it's most effective that I I I do it I work on it in chunks and then I'll go to bed and sleep on it and then it'll start to coalesce and I also will break it down in terms of what it is I'm expressing what it is I'm actually talking about so that it has a kind of architecture that that isn't word specific um but I will get the words specifically but they'll be you know they'll be they will have be inhabiting a kind of architecture that's sturdy I think I hope um and uh and just do it and decide you know it's okay I want to be off book in a week um or two weeks and start it as early as you can and just and do a little bits in other words I'll read the whole play and not try to memorize it you know but I'll then I'll look at it again and not try to memorize it and I'll look at it again I'll look at it and then I'll start to memorize it you know just to give my without the pressure of having to get it done by tomorrow take the advantage of time and let it you know inhabit me a little bit Um, you, you know, you knew that we ended this with a little known fact. You shared the economics degree that's in a box somewhere. So I'm going to do things a little differently and ask you to end the episode by telling me a story that involves Cagney and curtains. Well, I've been very lucky because I got to work with really all my heroes, you know, a tool, lemon and Cagney, you know, as an Irish American and just pretty much off the boat. I have a passport, Irish passport. The three deities in our home were JFK, the Pope and James Cagney and, and, and my mother had gone to Hunter, which is where all the smart girls went who didn't have, didn't have money. And, um, Gene Cagney, Jimmy's sister was also at Hunter. I don't know how, I think maybe my mom passed her in the hall. I don't know if they were actually friends or whatever. I don't know. And my, her brother, my uncle Larry, who was kind of a tough guy. And when he was in, in his, when he was a kid, he would work as a janitor's assistant in a bank in Mount Vernon and, and Art Carney's dad would bring little art in to tap dance at the Christmas party. So I got this job to do a movie with Cagney and, and, uh, Carney and, and, and Joe Frazier and a bunch of these great actors, Ellen Barkin and, and they were rehearsing at the, uh, at the, uh, the carl aisle and Jimmy had a, you know, big, sweet, there he was living there. Uh, and so they weren't going to let me in. They didn't believe I was in the play and I was like, I, you got, I'm going to be late if you don't let me upstairs. Now, please, maybe they didn't have my name. They finally let me in and I, they opened the door and there's Cagney sitting at a table, squeezing an exercise ball because he just had, you know, some issue. And Carney sitting across from and Cagney looks, looks, it's just black Irish, just like my father. And, and, uh, I come in and I introduce myself and say, hello, when Mr. Cagney, this Mr. Carney, my dad, a, a, a, so, says all of a sudden I was in life, Flynn, because my mother knew Gene and my, my uncle was remembered art as, and part of art was, they're both wonderful. So we were rehearsed. We were rehearsed. We were rehearsed. And it's the end of the thing I'm getting ready to leave. It says, Galaga. It says, uh, yes, Mr. Cagney. I'd like you to meet my wife, Billy. I said, well, I'd love to Mr. Cagney. But first we got to find her. Okay. Um, and so he said, and he was in a wheelchair. He says, Galaga down the hall, down the hall. And so he's, I'm pushing him down the hall and I said, go in the bedroom and see if she's in there. Billy, Billy, we're going to find you. Billy, Galaga, go in the room. And so I go into their bedroom and it's Mike and the old people's bedroom. I'm going through a whole, Jim. There's nobody here. There's nobody at all. I got it down the hall down the hall. So go down the hall and go to them. I want you to check behind the curtains. Where's the dining room? Is it really check behind the curtains? I said, okay, okay. And I go in there and there's nobody in there. I look around. There's nobody. I pull back the curtains and there's his wife, Billy hiding. And she might have been carried a bottle or something. I don't know. She says, I found you, Billy. Yes, you did, Jim. I want you to meet my friend, Peter Galaga. Peter, this is my wife, Billy. Please to meet you, Peter. Please to meet you, Billy. And pull up my wife and I had just gotten married like, you know, 10 minutes ago. And here they had been married for like 60, they had met in 1922 in a Broadway show called Pitterpatter. They were both in the chorus. And you know, here they were 63 years later, still chasing each other around the apartment. So I thought that was really inspiring. And you're still married. And I'm still. We have 20 more years to go to get there. You're good. The crazy thing is this is that when we were doing Long Days Journey and Tonight in production, we, uh, lemon, which I didn't realize lemon and cagney. Of course, we're very tight. I didn't really discuss it. It was a couple of years earlier. So lemon comes back from lunch. We all come back from lunch. I just want to see cagney. He said, you child Gallagher, I said hello. So I did. So there you rotten kid. And I said, I said, Jack, did you really remember that you? Yes, he did. You asked, oh, what, why would I tell you with story? No. And, uh, and, and it was just the, just the connection with having just been slightly introduced into that this world of remarkable people that I was, you know, lucky enough to be come along at a time when there was still working. Maureen Stapleton, right next door to me in Greece. And I would, she was one of my pals. She gave me my theater world award and Richard left me a Welsh flag and a telegram for the Corners Green and just the generosity and the Billy and the feeling of we're all members of the F and Lucky Club. Yeah. We don't really think because I've got all these awards or this or that that I'm better than you. I'm just, we're just smart enough to know how lucky we are and we'd be crazy not to be enjoying ourselves. It's really inspiring to kind of meet someone who has been doing it a long time and still loves it and still appreciates the community that it brings and, and meeting the people who love what you do and doing it for the people that you love and I'm so grateful to have had you on the podcast today. Oh, thank you so much, Alana. This was really a lovely, lovely discussion with you and and you are every bit as encouraging and supportive and insightful as as my beautiful daughter said you were and and thank you for your kindness to both of us. It has been a true pleasure. Oh, thank you. The pleasure was mine. Bye. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. I have some news. Little known facts is now available to watch on YouTube. Hours and hours and hours of interviews that you can see my fabulous guests and guess what it's called? Little known facts with Alana Levine catchy, right? Anyway, head on over to YouTube and watch the podcast and please don't forget to subscribe. Also, if you want to donate to the podcast, zero pressure, but if you want to, no donation is too big or too small. I am so grateful for you for listening. But if you want to donate, just go to little known facts podcast.com forward slash donations. Lastly, little known facts is recorded in Brooklyn, New York, USA. My editor is Nicholas Clark. None of this happens without Nicholas and the little known facts theme song was composed and sung by Georgia, Famusa with backup vocals by Caleb Famusa. Thank you for listening and have an amazing.