Episode 42: Power AND Weight with Lewis Oliva

The piece take is proud to be sponsored by the Velodrome Shop. Are you inspired by a loser's story of fighting, of comeback, of beers? Do you know, have you left all your kit behind it, but the cycling need to find some new equipment? Well, we have the place for you. But yes, you're lucky, lucky listeners. What we have today is you can check out the Velodrome Shop. So we at the piece take proud to be sponsored by the Velodrome Shop, you can get all your track cycling needs, whatever that be, whether it be wheels, bikes, equipment, yeah, pulling. Not lose a lever's track cycling needs, though like the practical normal track cycling needs. No, but yeah, you know, what and whatever you need, Velodrome Shop, I've got it. So check them out at www.Velodrome.shop, free international shipping. And take your track cycling to the next level today. Hello, and welcome to the piece take. My name is Johnny Mitchell. I'm one of your hosts. I'm Luce Sure and welcome to the podcast. Two episodes in two days. Yeah, who said we were done? People said we were down and out. We had emails, we had texts. You know, we've had hate mail. We've had it all. Yeah, but guess what? We're back. We're better than ever. Two episodes, two days, what a treat. Yeah. And what a great couple of episodes. Yeah, yeah. Two guests are quite closely linked with each other as well. You know, one coach does and also coach our guest. That's true, actually. That's true. And obviously not much has happened since yesterday. But since we recall that we have recorded them like two weeks apart. So things have happened of which we can't remember. I was in culpice. I was in culpice. Johnny was in culpice. Just the best C1 undisputed greatest class one in the world. That's a wrap. Highs quality riders, highs quality hot dogs or curry worst. Best quality vibes, best water park with close proximity to the Vela drum get to the water park this year, but I would thoroughly do the wise part of the package. You need to the water park. Yeah, it's been two weekends. Yeah, but it's now just down to one weekend, actually. It's no longer like a, yeah, no culpice is a single weekend or you know, it's what's a, but yeah, yeah. I mean crazy, crazy, crazy race in terms of like for women, there were 40 sprinters, men, 70 sprinters. Yeah, you know, even the contests. One of those of you make out the rounds. You're doing very well. Yeah. Yeah, even to qualify in the sprint is like, it's hard. But you know, even I never had never did neither. No, no, no, I should know what I did. And then I got spat by Max Dormac, actually. Like I qualified on one of the, one of the last places anyway, but yeah, then even junior races, it's 23rd-year riders, cadet races that you know, you use 17s, 23rd-year riders, each, you know, male and female. So it's it, I do have to say I think caught this is the best sprint race in the world. Just just because it's, it's hellish as a coach because all it is is sprint races. So you don't even have like a wee endurance, you know, those skinny bastards to go on round for 40 laps. You know, we don't even have them to give you a little break. And but yeah, so it's just sprint after sprint after sprint. So you have to be so aware of the schedule, but you know, even just seen this, like yeah, like you had real everfitting in there, you had a lot of racing there. Like rainbow stripes, race it, you know, at the racing. And like, you know, just even seeing all these like, you know, you know, you 17, these junior riders like for them actually being at the same race as these riders. It is so, it's so special. It doesn't really happen in any other sprint races. On this week's episode, we are very happy to, to welcome, it's our first, it's a different type of podcast, this actually. And you know, and we decided to bring, bring this guest on because, you know, he sent us a nice little email to the piece, take, you know, he left us a good little review. And it said, you know, like, I was a cyclist, but I, the one thing I really, really, really want to do is just come on the piece, take, and you know, at the piece, take, we are all about making dreams come true. And, you know, and you don't get many chances of achieving your dreams being Welsh. So, and this week's episode is sponsored by Make a Wish. We welcome to the piece, take Lewis Aliva. Thank you guys. Thanks, Adam. It's very, very honorable introduction. Thank you. No, it's a pleasure to have you here. It's just 100% truth. I just, yeah, yeah, it's one of those. We actually just wanted to catch up with Lewis and we thought while we were streamlining this, he used to be a track cyclist so we can streamline and actually just record the catch up. Well, actually about, about 10% of it because the rest would be inappropriate. But it's just, it's just streamlining friendships really at this point in the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I'd be amazed even if you got 10% of broadcast with the material from this. And I think to be honest, it just shows how much you guys have been stripping the barrel to find guests over the couple of months because if you have to bring me on, you guys are in the bad place. Well, it's funny. You say that. No, it's more just that as me and Lewis got busy and busy, we realized we cared about track, we didn't want to talk about track cycling as much we just wanted to catch up with people. The podcast is about fun. But yeah, so I guess just to give a little bit of context for you as a rider, Lewis, you know, our notes, we have a palm arous that isn't very long. It's longer than ours. You know, your results and it comes, you know, I think we have you down as a six-time British University's champion. It's a battle between me and Lewis, who's got the most mediocre palm arous. I mean, I mean, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, yours is mediocre, but it's just not existing. You mean we were British, you're in champion a few times. You're one of few revs back in the day. We did say your people's champion, but most importantly was actually 2018 Commonwealth Games, bronze medal, nations cups medals, a few of those as well thrown in in the queue. Okay. I'm going to correct you there. It's actually silver in companies. Thank you very much. Yeah, it was five. What they were called, well, cups back then back in back in day, back in day. Five well, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember and I remember mainly because every time it happened, it wasn't even like, you know, like the game wasn't changed, but just everyone was happy. You know, it was one of these one. Yes, you know, like no matter what. It was actually worse, but everyone was happier. Yeah. It was also just like nice because you were always in the British champs jersey as well. I feel it's a jersey that you didn't get erred enough. No, it's a shame. Yeah. Right. I guess where we wanted to start, because, you know, obviously we're all, we're all academy graduates. I don't know. Johnny's a graduate. Yeah. I'm a graduate. It's almost, we've all attended the University of academy. There's not much learning going on there, but when you, when you join, right, there's obviously like you get the stories of the past. You get told of it. It's kind of like, you know, there's much more of academy. And I feel like one of the faces on there is is loose, Alive. Perhaps in the world stage, one, the lesser known riders, but nonetheless had had the cultural impact on what was then, you know, the BC academy and the future of that. And, you know, you hear the stories, but I guess today we're here to, we're here to take the curtain back as far as we can appropriately on what, on what life was like back then. I would just love to hear just what, you know, what were the first days like? What was, you know, who was there? Because we were actually discussing before that, like, I don't think, for example, Calum Skinner, Olympic champ, never been mentioned in this podcast. So we were able to search the transcripts somehow never came up. Well, I think, I think you hit the noun on the head. I think it's about what can be shared appropriately, you know, to our PG audience. But, maybe effectively, like, those days were an equal mix of the best and worst days of my life. And when I said worst, what I mean is still best. I mean, you know, they're put in these like 18, 19 year old girls and boys together in this block of apartments above weather spoons and opposite a brothel. I mean, that is, come on. A genuinely a brothel. Yeah, like, I mean, you go to that yourself, I mean, the closest thing to the entrance to the apartment was a brothel. Like, it was in the order of a brothel, weather spoons and then supermarket opposite. And it's like, well, you need to try and run a walk out. Do you need to do madness? Absolutely madness. Yeah. And so, so what year was it you joined? Was it 2010? That you've joined the prologue? Yeah, it's 2010. So yeah, finished, finished at levels 2010. And then we moved up to Manchester and I'll, I'll, I'll always remember, I know Kean, Imadian, Cannes, Kean, and we'll, all 100% vouch for this as well. I won't use the full name again for the rest of the podcast, because it's the sake of the audience. We've actually used called names. I don't know, like Fox drama. I remember, I was very national. We raised nationals that year when it was, used to be in September time. Oh, yeah. And I think all of us had basically like just shut out again at nationals. We were absolutely horrendous. And Jan sat the three of us down and basically said that, you know, you are by far the first cyclist we've ever admitted onto the academy. By you. Yeah, that's way too. Yeah, that conversation with me as well. Yeah. I'm glad to tell you it wasn't you weren't the boughtman the barrel. You know, it got a dead get worse. Yeah, I just think like between, between the three of us, like, I think we were the worst, worst junior sprint year for ages. I think I think I think, I think, the skinner and the key, I think they might have got like, you know, close to maybe a top five in the kilo in one of the years, but we were, we were, we were a dog shit. And like, yeah, young, like fair play, like I don't know how you guys are here, but there's actually nobody else. So I'm going to give you a chance and, you know, how wrong they were to do that. I mean, which is, which is also quite funny when you look back in reflection, you know, like, you know, Calum 101 picks in Rio, Key and One Whirls in, you know, 2018, like, you know, you won Bucks as well, but like, you know, yeah, but yeah, you, you, you know, you almost look at that cohort of other years, you know, of later years of different points and go, look back as well, like we weren't like, you know, we weren't necessarily like the same sprint mold that had come before as well. Like, like, you say, look at Keir and Keir ended up doing, you know, a lot of the endurance stuff in the back end of his, the back end of his career. And like you say, one, one of the world champs in the team pursue it and say, you know, I was some fat bloke for Monmouth, I used to play rugby and go for a few points on Friday night. And I'm pretty sure Skinner could easily, you know, Calum could easily have gone probably the way in his, in his career as well. If you wanted to, he went like endurance or sprint. I mean, you know, he was pretty good on those horrible long road rides in New Yorker and stuff. So, yeah, it was been a bit of a bit of a risk, I think, for BC. Yeah, I'm trying to envisage how that team sprint would work in knowing all of you guys physiologically. It's like, yeah, it's like four or three P4s. You know, how did you guys get something together that was like functional or did it, it was just back in the day, it didn't matter. It was three guys in line or whatever. I still think that like BC just needs to have people on the team to like satisfy some sort of UK sport, like funding or something like, I'm pretty sure we were just like the right place at the right time. I mean, we were bad. Really bad. So I guess then like for at that time, like so that was without being an era when it would be John Norfolk was coaching the academy at that time, like, or was it Jan that was working with you guys or yeah, like, and so what, what did that then even program of academy look like? What was, what was a normal day today, week to week, like, even within the elite squad you had to Chris Hoy, you had Jason Kenny, like, yeah, what was that? Hang on a minute. I'm just correct, we were the elite squad, right? They were very much, they were very much working around us. Yeah, we had like, we had we had John's, John's basically sort of followed us up really from like our junior days, Joe Jones coaching us on ODP, it was called then. I don't even know what it's called now is junior. I think junior academy, whatever it is. It actually went full circle. I think it's no back to ODP. Yeah, because during my time it was like we couldn't possibly have a Olympic on it. You guys are not Olympic riders can't make you think you're Olympic riders, so it's gone. Just talent. And even then that's a stretch for some of you. Yeah, that was a fight. So good. Yeah, like so, yeah, John and Basie, like, John has started, I think, his career in British like in there with the juniors and then, you know, because we were so successful, we obviously made him. And then I think BC in the last I thought, look, you know, if you can deal with these guys, you can probably deal with any any athletes really. So he he followed, you know, we made his career. He followed us up to the academy. And it was like, yeah, it's a classic classic control, see control V program. We, you know, no, nothing about that. John, if you're listening, I love you, you're the best. And yeah, so it was, you know, Jim three times a week track. Couple of times a week, two, three times a week, you know, how boring it gets, like starts on the Monday, some fly and a first, you know, those big roll in five Fridays that everyone who's have nightmares about. And then we basically, you know, I'm sorry, so I cannot believe the rule in five radius is still happening. Like it was still very much a thing when we, especially into the block, it was one time where we did eight or nine, you know, because it was, it was rolling five Fridays. Like it's amazing. Yeah, you think it's developed. It just doesn't, you know, the engineers make some better kit, but you just still rock up and, you know, just get your 500 done, be slightly less depressed than you were last week, hopefully, and I then, I'm just gonna beat 100%. And what I love most about it as well is like, you know, the week wouldn't really be over until you've done all that hard work by going out for a four hour rather than a saturday. Just and truly end yourself. And then Sunday, you're thinking like, what is the relevance of that day I did yesterday? But you know, you weren't really allowed to, to have your own opinion. And then you do the same again on Monday. I mean, and that was, I should also, that was also the, the era of British cycling where the riders also had to ride to and from the track every day. So yeah, on top of the four hour road rides, you're already doing about eight hours of riding through the week as well. Yeah, I'm listening. Like I look back now. At the time, I'm with the BMX guys. He's a laugh at us and be like, you guys are doing so much training. And we were like, guys, you don't train enough. Like trust me, we know we're the track, we're the track squad. We know we're doing press always when and like, I look back now, I think, so I'm like, head in hands like, like no wonder we were so there is that sort of like academy, just like, especially back in those days, like back to you into submission. Like it wasn't about being, it wasn't about getting better. It was about, you know, sort of just listening to orders and do, you know, marching orders and getting the job done and testing your loyalty to the program. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. To Queen and Country. Yeah. Nothing better than after a four week. Like you say, riding home on a Friday in the middle of like November, Manchester, getting knocked off your bike by traffic in horizontal rain. horizontal rain, you got no lights. You punctured like five miles ago, but you just can't be bothered to change your wheel. I've been riding on the rim for 10 minutes. Yeah, because you know, stop your bike. Coming the next day, you can come in and see a person to say, ah, for some reason, my, my wheels, it's just broke. I don't know what's wrong with it. I just get everyone's going, you yeah. As you're set outside the bloody corner, short waiting for Jack to have his fucking 10 pack of cookies. Yeah. Yeah. I remember. See when John, when you were on account of me, did you guys still do the ride riding a track like militantly? Well, yes, but more because we got paid so little that we didn't have the ability to have a car. Yeah. And so, well, so, so then it started then trimming got a car and then yeah, and then trimming started trying to charge petrol money. And obviously we were like, yeah, like when I look back now, it's totally fair, but like, yeah, so yeah. Yeah. We did have like a weekend in, Kevin's like, oh, it's just fucking dumb, just driving. No, I'm not saying like, I actually look back. Now, I like, obviously, I'm working in different sport. I know, I know we'll come to it at some point. But I look back and like every, you know, lay person's opinion of British like you're you're pitting me a professionalism. Yeah, leaving no so none turn you guys are absolutely nailing it. I don't like, I think back to like our training. And I was like, are you like, you mad? Like you was actually like, there was so many things we could have done, done better and probably things they've tightened up, tightened up, no, since, but yeah, it was a lot of things. I think we need to do the disclaimer for that. Everything's better now. Yeah, just I had this in the job interview last week where they were like, what makes a good team? And I'm sitting there like, I was in potentially one of the greatest teams ever. And anything you're thinking is the correct answer. We didn't have it. I hope in communication. And there was nonexistent. So look at the medals. Look at the medal. Honestly, it baffled me, but yeah, good times. I was going to be just like back in the days where you were like with students because obviously when I joined, we basically lived in some lovely neighborhood in Heaton, Moore, well, that's why yeah, because kind of retired neighbors. It was all very polite. You know, there wasn't really anything to get kind of caught in. There was no traps. The devil wasn't there in a lot of ways. Whereas I feel like back in your day, it was a bit of a different story. You know, Falafield obviously is like a student town. And there's a bit more kind of inviting parties, etc. Yeah, big time. And also like it hadn't helped that there was a few boys from my hometown, Monmouth, that obviously gone to Union Manchester as well. So they were literally likely have been living in Falafield. And so we were in this unique position where like, you know, they were up there getting themselves into debt and were broke. And we were sort of like, like just training throughout the day and then have this like disposable income where we could just, you know, spend UK taxpayers lost three funded money on beer and alcohol. And that's always back to it. That's why we were also ready to try. It kind of been much. I think, I think I think they took a bit of a, some sort of out of our pay packet. You see the people who come today. or each month rather. So they took 250 a month, which is pretty cheap. We were living like, you know, a fairly nice digs to be fair. And it was well, well, pollution above weather spoons, so we could watch what's going to be. So, so I love it. We had fairly nice digs. You know, it had a brothel. Like, it was a well-suited combination. It had everything you needed. Whoever designed that was a genius. And I think we'd end up with £375 a month at the end of all that. So, you know, it's not much, it's not much more than sort of, you know, 10 or a day, typing really, like 12-quited day however that ends up to work out. So, yeah, when you think about that, that's really sad, isn't it? I think I still managed to save. Yeah, I mean, I think when you're paying like £1 of pint in student bill, that's £375. And then if you if you were really smart, you could basically just have like one of those meal runs and then you can go out and have 10 pint. So, the only food-dreeting is like SIS, where I was cycling, provided foods. And all money is spent on pints and double-vodka red meals. Hule. Right. It's a buying Hule. £1,720 from BC. I mean, beer does have calories, I guess. But, but you know, I think I guess it's interesting as well then, kind of looking back, you know, yeah, being obviously, like it's exactly, we've all we've all been in that sort of academy environment. I mean, you know, where you are almost living on top of each other as well, you know, where it's, you know, you train every day with the people, you live every day with the people. And obviously, you know, for some people, it's amazing, some people, it's not. But like, from your perspective then, like that, I guess maybe that difference of the earlier period of British cycling, we're, you know, zinc, by the time I was there, by time Lewis was there, they'd learned from Fallowfield. And it may be for performance, it wasn't the best. But, you know, like, yeah, I guess like overall, like what would you kind of look at that period, as you know, like it was positive, negative, like what's your kind of take on that? No, it was like undeniably so, so fun. It was literally like, you know, I had the pleasure of living with Phil Hines. And so like we had sort of made each other a little bit at the junior worlds, the few months before he came over. And fair play, and Texan Balls, yeah, he's with Germany, exactly. So he takes some balls to like, you know, swap, swap nations, but also to like just up sticks and move out of his boarding school, you know, out the fri-vans of the fire for him. And like, his English at the start was like, you know, it was okay, conversational, but all the nuances would be lost on him. I think one of the first, yeah, the first, the first sort of words you ever spoke to me, I must have been using the word a lot around around the around the, the fact we were living in. But he sent me down to Lewis. What does Bellend mean? As I was like under my breath, I was been muttering at the fact that he's been leaving his dirty plates out the whole time. And it was like maggots growing in his food, and it was all absolutely rough. And like, it was just like, it was so, it was so class because we were living away from home for the first time. It was exciting. We had all the, all the track sprinters on the top floor, this apartment block, the next floor down would have been like, you know, all like the BNXs and the mountain bikers. And it was all the roadies and all the enduro's down. And I feel the team skyboys, Kenner and Luke Rowe would sort of drop in randomly and have their flat. It was just like, it was just amazing. If you were a student, it would have been amazing. And you know, like, we weren't too far with some performance back then. So we also weren't really bothered. But I mean, like, been able to do like, been able to do like an all night and go to some student bar and end up in sort of like some grim dirty drum and bass bar at 6am. And then just sort of like, pull an all nighter and go and squat 240 kilos. I mean, it's like, I couldn't even dream of doing that now. It's a bit invincible back then. Yeah, honestly, like, but now I'm probably suffering for that. Well, that's a thing. Yeah, like right now I pick up a bar, get a weird angle and I'm fucking cooked. Absolutely. You can get away with anything when younger. I know, you know, I'm 26 and that's an issue. Right. 100%. Just and you're still doing rugby. Right. I actually might have to play my last season, like, a couple of seasons ago now. And I made the mistake of playing tighthead prop. And yeah, you're going to lose at least 75% of the podcast at this point, you're going to say like we're all for tangents. Yeah, sorry, guys, basically, I've got a lot of the Americans that listen as well. So if you want to dumb it down, then yeah, I mean, interestingly, my Belgian is to rock piece. So they might have a the Belgian audience should be. Yeah, I had to play the big fat bloke at the front of the scrum. There we go. There we go. There we go. The huddle. And the goal in America. The issue is I didn't basically have years of like next strength behind me. So like, although I was incredible as you can imagine boys. Yeah, my neck brace, you just mapped off and like disk, disk issues and MRIs. Yeah, everyone is that loose his head is actually 90 degrees. It's yeah, yeah, loose is the main reason we haven't done a video podcast. Just for seconds. Yeah, exactly. If you're too horrifying, don't Google them, don't look his Instagram. It's not, you're not worth it. But yeah, I guess what's really interesting though is despite, despite all this, everything you've just described and everything you haven't described and everything that's not made the editor. And you, you, I mean, you guys kind of made it in some ways. Like it's, you know, obviously, Calum, then, you know, double Olympic med list, you guys all kind of make it to podium. Yeah, a little keen about the exception to the rule. But I mean, I'd also even add the endurance as well. We had a wing do actually keen one world champs. Yeah, yeah, but obviously in the team pursuit. But I'm just interested in kind of what point did that transition happen when you sort of you went from Jan thinking you guys are the biggest joker ever to join the British cycling team to sort of when did that progression begin where I don't know, you two, but what did you just move away from the brothel? I don't know. Or did it begin? You just assuming it began. Now, like, there was definitely a time, like, I remember, I literally bang in my head against the wall for years and not really coming up with results. And then we had this like Skinner and I with Crampo, like another probably one of the heaviest heaviest teams for teams ever assembled. Like, we're thinking of this like dodgy bronze at senior euros. Dodgy bronze questionable bronze, you know, it was so it was so I'm really going to get your key run under 23 years. Quite the whole thing is it? May it to be fair, it wasn't that questionable, but it was pretty questionable. But like, you know, I was like, oh, you know, we've we've got bronze now at the euros. According to UK sport guys, we should be on like, you know, whatever it was, D funding or C funding at the time. I'm about asking Ian Daya, you know, Ian, you know, we've sort of ticked the box now. Hey, like, you know, get some more cash. And he's like, no, it's sort of shut it down. And then like, I went through this really, really weird time, which was sort of my last couple of years in the program and then my sort of years off the program where I won, you know, five five wall cut medals in like in a space of a couple of years or Nate nation cut medals, when it was rather. And the sixth one I came fourth in and there was another one that year I got to qualify from silver for headbutt in one for relter. And then like, and then, you know, one, one, both those national champs in the key ring back to back and then the commies and it's just like, oh, hang on a minute, like, something's clicked, you know, finally clicked. It took all those years of drinking pints in fallafield for, um, for its final pay up at night. I think it was, it was all the alcohol storage, you know, as much energy that finally released itself. As well. I could think of. Yeah, so I'm also, I'm also just loving that thing of like, is that classic? Let's not, I assume not just in British cycling, but you know, when it's like they have the funding criteria that says this medal for this thing. And then there's always just that little, it's almost like a little wink. It's like, well, you know, now it's time to get me more cash. The thing is, it's like double as well. That is like double the money. It's like double the paint. 66, an Asia Pines. I don't know what he was turning to. Why are you changing stuff? I think every night to be honest, I think that's why he didn't say no, but I think he knew what I was like. We're not funding your points there, Lewis. Uh, God. And, um, I'm sorry, I also do actually to go in further back. I love the idea of having like a weight skill for team sprints just to see like the heavy weights like. Like, like, 100, 100 people world records. Yeah, you know, yeah. Like, you know, my last, my, in my last season racing in 2018, there was this like unofficial Facebook group of the, um, the over 100 kilo riders. And it was like me, uh, Eddie Dawkins, Jeffrey, uh, I think that the knife Harry was on there. It was like Andre Vinnikor. There's a few of us on there just like just like just like the fat boys really. What was the point of it? What we discussed just, we basically just discussed all the weaklings in the, yeah, in the peloton, it just, it just wasn't strong enough to be an hour clone. But they could go. off a start line. Yeah, yeah, but no one cares about the start line. Yeah, look at the gifts and to reach. Yeah, there's no glory in the team. We all know us, but the key ring. We all know like there's no glory in a thing. No one who's a box tech is literally a box tech for UK sport. It's like, yeah, man, 100%. Mate, if you're going to pick a race to race, you want to put the fastest race in the track, right? So, you know, why not just just suck it up and just do the care in my eyes. The only one people want, like the rest, the track program, right? All the scratch race nonsense, all his team pursued nonsters. It's just a filler for the key ring. That's all it is. You're buying in time for the main event. Everyone knows. Yeah, I guess then looking at talking about team sprint, you know, like I think I think it is something, you know, as you say, like that started to click. You know, there was a lot of things that kind of, you know, as a late developer, I wouldn't even say you were a late developer. I think it was just you were a late trainer. Mentally, mentally, frontal lobe, late development. It took, it took at least like 20% brain capacity loss from alcohol for you to finally realize, okay, you know what, maybe start training now. But yeah, like, you know, as you start to then kind of come through, like obviously GB being a team sprint program. And you know, yeah, you know, you should say like being a thicker boy, you know, a big Boon-de-Boy coming through the program. You know, coming through the program, like, yeah, like, like, and obviously then trying to fit into that mold. How do you, in fact, what was that kind of experience like for you? So, no, it was, it was a bit strange. I do remember there being like a bit of, you remember those like what it takes to win models that BC used to make and they used to like tell you like, you know, what gear you have to ride and what time you got to do in training to get that to get that more weird. Yeah. Yeah. I never had all it took. That's that. I guess that's the issue. Well, maybe, yeah, the older I've got, the more I've realized, I need to deny it. I don't think we really optimized that as well as we could have like looking back at the time it was a bit of a laugh in a joke, but I was just sort of like one of the bigger fatter blocs. And, you know, never really had much nutrition input. And, you know, all that we would do every swaffen is do a food diary where basically I would just lie and ignore all the kit cats and all the Guinness that we really enjoyed. And so, I'm sorry, I'm just laughing at the food diary parks. I remember that, yeah, that part of BC. And like I went for the opposite approach of complete honesty, but that was it was the point when it was one of the apps we had to like take photos. And, you mean, you'll remember the nutritious at a time like fucking, but I remember like because it all should say is like, you know, 80, it's 80, 20, 80% good, 20% bad. But so, but should just reply to everything bad. I've put in say 80, 20. I remember being sat like, well, like, where am I? I'm at like 82. Am I like fucking 75? Like, please tell me. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, the thing is with with great mass comes great responsibility, right? And my attitude was always, in actually keeping my brother, he spent a year over in a bookie college in in the States, rowing over there on a bit of like a a bit of a year abroad. And the phrase I never forget that came out of that was why have power to wait when you can have power and wait. And so that was very much, that was very much my philosophy, where I'd imagined this great big man coming off Bangin at 150 kilo unit, pushing, you know, 76, 11 seated. And just basically decided to roll with roll with that philosophy, which yeah, okay, might not help the start. But like we said earlier, it doesn't matter about the start guys, it's about how you finish. Yeah, sorry. And kind of on that, obviously with with with big weight comes big responsibility that comes big gears. But this was back in the day. This was back in the day where little gears were done thing. But, but we were we're speaking here with a pioneer, you know, as we know, you pioneered first, firstly the alcohol training, the training regime, you then pioneered power and weight. And then you were on the precipice of greatness, yet you didn't know what the time in pioneering the big gear adoption. But it was a I believe it was a bit of restriction again, because it was a time where you couldn't have opinions, you know, you couldn't have thoughts. So how did you break the mold, you know, back then and push the sword forward? Man, it was such a tricky. I remember, I haven't been made a really impression on me, where we were under 23 year, no junior year, junior year in Belarus. Back when we could go to Belarus. Good old days. Before we went, well, and obviously the under 23 year olds running at the same time. And I remember Kevin Sorot doing a flying 200 on like 119 at the time. So people used to ride it. I was like 53 12 was that about right? I remember top my head is like, but 1912 and he went 99 and 23 years. This is this is back in like 2008. So that's like what? And, you know, we found out he's on a massive gear and there's some work at the time come out of the Japanese carrying guys that, you know, were riding massive gears and seeing the results. And it always struck me. It's like, it's the equivalent of driving the car on the motorway and just leaving it in third. Like, it just doesn't make sense. That's why the Lord God invented a fifth and a sixth gear in cars. Anyway, like, it's not easy to help you make him laugh. The Lord God bit of. So we remember this time. I remember like come off games. We're absolutely all of us shout out. And the key ways I'd people like Eddie Dawkins and some Webster riding, you know, 120 yard inch gear which at the time was massive. And it just seemed like so obvious to like, you know, if you can't beat and join them type attitude. And I was always somebody that enjoyed my legs turning a little bit slower but putting out a bit more torque, you know, not necessarily as twitchy as a as a true sprint athlete like you would a track and field sprinter. But someone who would enjoy putting out, you know, some some some high sort of torque numbers. But like we said earlier, it just didn't fit the what it takes to win model that they've somehow like created off the back of a bag packet. And, you know, it didn't it didn't compute. And there was quite rigid. They weren't really, you know, sort of appreciative or approachable of people trying different things. I actually remember there was one one session on purpose, doing a flying session. And I accidentally put the wrong sprocket on like I put like a 13th or 14 on purpose, like just to just to basically just just try it out under the guise of making an honest mistake. And that's absolutely flying, my abs that you flew. And you know, Jan, the times in all my guards, you know, that's so much better. You just knocked off two tenths in your flying hand. And it's like, what's different. And they said, mate, I don't know how I lie to you. I literally just put 120 on like, you know, it's like, oh, that's a shame. So shame can't do that. Yeah. That's that's the loose washing cars. We had half a second over the 200. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and actually just hands you a sponge to go and wash the cars and the car park. Right. It was it was so weird. It was like, it was almost like they rather ask at that point ride slower, but hit the magic 165 RPM. That is mental thing. I want to take the win had 165 RPM. That is crazy. It was like, basically like, I don't even know how they would do it. They would like basically pick a time that they thought would win the Olympics. And then just like work backwards, you'd be like, right, you guys need to ride 98. And, you know, you guys need to do this time to the to the quarter, this time to the half. You know, on that year, it would mean to do this cadence in this temperature and humidity in this training session. It's like, mate, slap at the boys ride back. Do you know what I mean? The girls have fun. But the thing is, the caveat though is that they weren't they were correct. Doesn't the water takes the win was always correct. That is just often ended up the GB stopped winning. Sometimes we're the ones who won. They were correct. And, you know, they weren't right, but they weren't wrong. You know, yeah, you're right. You are right. But we had, you know, I always think to myself, apologies, GB coaches, if you're listening to this, that's a slash, I don't apologize at all. But, you know, if you're coached, if you're coached to team with Sir Chris, Sir Jason, plus and other Phil Boyd, you know, I always think like my cat could coach that team and win gold. Like those, those boys are unbelievable. Those boys like world class, absolute specimens and were miles ahead of the game, you know, of anyone that they were untouchable. Like what a team? Like what a team? And like, do you think back to, you know, what Jamie's staff did in in Beijing, like 2000 when 171, right? I mean, 171 now is still absolutely so we want to the fastest B1s in the world. Yeah, you know, there's Mad. Yeah. And when you see this position, Jamie Staff was in as well, well aerodynamically, you're just like holy shit, but the piece take is proud to be sponsored by the Velodrome Shop. Are you inspired by a looser story of fighting, of comeback, of beers? Yeah, you know, have you left all your kit behind the bike and you find some new equipment where we have the place for you? So we at the piece take proud to be sponsored by the Velodrome Shop, you can get all your track cycling needs, whatever that be, whether it be wheels, bikes, equipment, that porting. Not looser, even track cycling needs, they're like the practical normal track cycling needs. No, but yeah, you know, whatever you need, Velodrome Shop, I've got it. So I think I think even within that, did you find, so obviously you had that session where you dropped to 10 soft just by going on 120, like did you find that there was a kind of suffering of that wall or was it just still quite a brick walk? Obviously, at that point maybe around that time, Justin Grease also came in to the system. Yeah, he did actually. It was around that sort of, what Commis was that was being Glasgow Commis, that sort of time where he came in. And, you know, I think they actually looked at it a bit more scientifically and worked out that actually all those work, all that work, rather than we've been doing on the standing starts, you know, the first quarter or the first half on small gears. Actually, the cadence wasn't too dissimilar to riding a flying 200 on big years. So actually the two sort of complimented itself. And so they're like, oh, maybe we can benefit the start still by riding these huge years. But Justin just in came at the right time, especially for me, like my head had totally gone. At that point, it was four years of banging your head against the wall, being on the academy pretty, I know, I think just being on to podium. But by the point being, like, you're still in the shadows, really, those four years and just sort of just getting bored, literally like a hamster in a wheel, just riding around in circles. And then Justin came and it was all quite new and exciting. And we started going to Valencia for training camps and stopped the those silly road ride things. And it was just probably just what I needed just to extend my time at BC a little bit longer. You know, just a fresh now, I think a new coach at that time was so so warranted. And then yeah, managed to hold out for another couple of years up until sort of re-oh selection is ready. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think I remember vividly having race shoot time. But I remember, you know, like 2015, that was it, you know, that year could lead up to Olympics, like you really started to step on. You know, because like, I'll be honest, you started the year with me beating you, which was not a high point. And then by the end of the year, I remember, you know, like, there was that revolution series in Derby. You know, that like, Derby, you know, you know, about this loose, when they did the Derby Olympics. Derby Showcase, wait, oh, this is the, this is the Matt Roller and Lou Saliva. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Matt Sprint. Yeah. They still actually use a video view, based on absolutely pulling out Roller's arse, going long in a Matt Sprint. Sorry, Matt. If you're listening. Doesn't do a track stand, which just doesn't look behind them. And obviously, you're still rolling. You're going to have one. I'll get in the bathroom. Bye-bye. I know. It was like one of those, one of those times where like you, I think, I think I basically went then flat out for a half a lap. And I think the gap was, I think I'm pretty much we all both sort of sat about that. So it was actually like quite an easy way to, to win a race, bless him. But mate, like that, that Derby, right, this is the backstory to that Derby reps. Like I still look back and think of that day as like one of the best is a half-nabike. And everyone's like, oh, yeah, what was it? Was it Olympics? Was it, when in the commies? Was it winning Worlds? No, no. Is winning the Derby Revolution the first the first event that was held there? Because I quite, what if I fast as I think in something like 10/0? No one broke 10, I don't think. But fast as in 10/0. And then, yeah, beat Rollers in the first round. Beat Francois Pervy in the second round. And then beat Jason Kenny 2-0 in the semis. And then beat Callum 2-0 in the final. And I was just like, what? That's actually just happened, yeah. And then like I look back on it. And Dremler like, you know, we went through a phase, obviously, like things can get quite grimed in the same minute and just training program the whole time. And I was always looking for a bit of an out, looking for next step, you know, just psychological, just to try and freshen things up a little bit. And our life was going to look outside of cycling. And in secret, I had applied for medical school to start training as a doctor. And that morning at Derby Revolution, believe it or not, was the day that I had an email come through to say, yeah, I've been lucky enough to be selected for Cardiff Medical School. You know, you can start, you can start this year. It was like, yeah, or start next year, right? It was, yeah, 2016, September time. And I was like, oh, it just suddenly felt like that, that black cloud that had been following me around for a while, just sort of lifted. And I just raced that race, like I just didn't give a shit. And, you know, I then, I think we talked about certain points in in a career. I think that that could well have been it because I remember then we went to, went to Rubey then I got put in the A team with Jason and Phil. And we won the team sprint there. It wasn't a fast enough rule, but we won the team sprint. I think I beat Jason again, to Neil in in Rubey, qualifying, you know, second fastest to Gregory Borgia at the time. And then I got like another medal in the Kieran. I was like, oh my god, like he's finally coming together. And no one knows, but I've got this little, you know, this little get out escape clause next year, where I can actually just train, train my bar looks off for the next year. And, and have this sort of extra avenue that I can explore and just not have to run in circles rest of my life. Yeah, yeah, no, it's funny actually because yeah, yeah, it's really funny, because I do remember just that that rev in in Darby and it was just like, you know, because yeah, you were always one of these guys that was knocking about always like a solid rider. But yeah, I'd never really had that kind of stand out moment. You know, I think like, say, yeah, you could see Keane and Kenneth Slythe for what olds and like minsk in 2013, you know, Kalm and then started to kind of come through a bit, but it was like, okay, shit, you know, here comes Lewis. You know, I always, always really remember like that. It was just like, yeah, really nice to see. And so I guess in for you, like, then obviously with that, yeah, and that actually is quite quite nice, quite interesting to know, especially about that. Yeah, that that that offer of medical school, and just as you say, it's that kind of like weight being lifted off. It's the sometimes these things you can just almost empower you to actually race your bike, because at the end of the day, it's just, it's just turning a bike in a circle. Yeah, I mean, is that, you know, but I guess in from from you, like how did it, what was then that next step? Because obviously you're then trying to get into, you know, that's 2015, you know, they called it the Darby Olympics because that was meant to be like the Olympic simulation. They had a full TP. They had, you know, full on name, full, you know, full full team sprint. Like, you're then one year out, yeah, and coming into the Olympics, you know, yeah, you're starting to push your way into the 18 in the team sprint. You're starting to really put yourself forward in the individual events. Yeah, like what did you find even within yourself? There was a change in your approach or, yeah, what was the kind of knock on effect of that? So like, I, you know, I was certainly, you know, hungry for it and training was going really well. But the sort of the biggest thought in my side, I think was was actually the team sprint. You know, I'd never actually like really produced a good P3 lap. You know, you could, in theory, you know, you could, you could put, you could put your standing quarter and your standing half together, you know, they used to do like put your fastest roads three quarters together and then put like a five hundred together. Oh, Lewis is going to go 12, two for a P3, like probably should have. But what happened like physiologically is that I got into a place where I could do it. I could do a pretty good start. I remember having these trials and we were on 180 at the time, which was like deemed a massive gear. Oh my god. I lived on a hundred days. And we did it from from a P3 position. So I went sort of blue line fish and I went 17, three from, you know, fully kidded up, which, you know, would have been, would have been more than enough to get on, you know, like a low 17 from a P3 position. But then so I could do that. And I could do, you know, what ended up being 97 is, you know, flying flying to 100 at a company. So I had like all the pieces were at the jigsaw, but they could never come together. Like when I would never able to recover behind Jason in P2, I have the having done a standing start flat out. I sit there as elegantly as I see a lot of, you know, P3s and stuff and recover and soak it up and then go again. I was once, I was I was wanting to show my. show my graph compared to other P3 riders and no matter how naked does other P3 riders work and no matter sort of what standing lap they have to get on. The peak speed of that sort of first quarter of the P3 rider when he took over was always a bit higher. They'd kick it on and they'd go up a little bit before they would decay and my graph was very much like Jason would pull off and I just died straight away. But my legs never felt that they belonged to me. I couldn't actually push. I had no sensation in my legs. I was just like, what is this? Over time I beg out the question, is it because we're riding too small a gear that I can get on, I can do a lap, I can go fast for a turn of me, it's great. But then I'm still spinning really, really fast. I'm not recovering where my body felt like it wanted to sit there on a 130. To have any chance of actually recovering. To be fair to the selection process, we never argued it at all. The fastest three rode, there's absolutely no question that Skinner deserved that P3 spot. He was the fastest P3, the question marks over him was whether he was going to get on the team sprint. I feel like it's important to set the scene a little bit here. Because I remember I was like 16, 17 at the time and I don't know if I'm doing disservice to Tokyo and Paris. But for those team sprints, it felt a bit more like a procession. In terms of you kind of had an idea who the team was going to be and it didn't really change a lot and there wasn't really any surprises. Whereas that kind of 2016 selection period was just mental in a lot of ways. Obviously you had who the Focacus Ryan Owens, had walked up onto the scene, you had an infre P3, you had yourself, you had Skinner, you had Crampo. I remember it was my entertainment as well and I didn't really know you guys, but keeping up to date with what was having the selections, who they hoped they were going to pick. I remember waiting myself for that selection day to get sent the times to be like, "Oh, who the hell did they pick? Let's see the seven hundred breakdowns." It was such a big build up around that. I think I think I'd also even add just even before you hit the selection, is it like the overall context of where G.B. Were at as you had Phil and Jason who were out and out, if not the fastest, they were two of the fastest P1P2s in the world. Because at that time that was when the Kiwis were in their full romp. But Jason and Phil were holding their own to Sam and Ethan. But it was almost that case of with G.B. When without that P3, so that world's Phil was at the world's 2016. Phil Pills at 17-0, can't get it dropped and then they came fifth. So it wasn't even just the who's in the team, but actually can this team which we know can possibly win a medal, but they could actually end up coming fifth or sixth as well. Yeah, exactly. I think the way the sort of summarise that is that like Kalamani was basically opposite end of the spectrum. Like Skinner was a very, very good killer rider. He'd won the Europeans, you know, outdoor in some gritty bulltracking Guadalini before that. And then, you know, and I had a pretty decent lap on me, but then couldn't finish it off. So like it was like yin and yang, but then you know, he got his stuff together and you know, Kean, Kean unfortunately for him, you know, he was, I think he was almost almost set to be honest to be that P3 rider. And then he had his, he had an episode of, or a number of episodes actually of back issues that sort of plagued the recipe's sprint career and hence the sort of move to to endurance and crampo, crampo brokeies, brokeies, oil brokeies, wrist or some of that. I think that that Paris world. So suddenly it's like, you know, I'm thinking, I'm going to minute, you have me Skinner and Ryan. And yeah, we had this like weird trial thing, you know, this like with your 750 meters standing start. And I was like, oh, you know, I like the man of the world's worst kilo. And yeah, the weirdest thing happened where like a skin that was fastest like fair play, like, you know, you can't argue with numbers. Can you ask why trials are so good? But, you know, Ryan was not second fastest. You know, if we're using the same metrics that they were looking at, you know, so the total of a 750 in particular, that sort of third lap split. But he was a very good standing lap rider and would have done a very good P2 as well. And probably would have done a good P3 because of the fact that he could just soak up his first two laps, probably better than anyone. And look, I was the first to congratulate Ryan, you know, I did think I was going to possibly go as a reserve, just offered, I thought I'd offered a bit of a sprinting care and option in case there was injury. But, you know, looking back, I think it's good for Ryan to have been involved. Obviously, he then did the business in Tokyo when I had retired. And Ryan's a, Ryan's a tremendous bloke. He's a great athlete. And I was the first to, you know, he had a lot of hate at the time. But at 100% like never from, never from me. And same was, same with Skinner. You know, it's like the fastest, the fastest team wrote. Yeah. And what I was, what I was going to argue over, wants to be there as a reserve. Like, you know, do I, do I want to fight that hard and just then watch, watch from the wings as it turned out, I basically went to Japan, race, wide bike for a couple of months with all the other rejects from Australia, New Zealand. And basically got back on the bears and raced, raced some of the best races I've ever done. You know, I'm pretty pretty sure I might have even held the track record before the Tokyo Olympics. We were that quick. Yeah. I guess, but I guess the one piece of important context is that like in that trial, I think I remember that Skinner was quite significantly slower in the first lap. At this point, he had never got on a team sprint or at least in any meaningful way. So like there was, there was a huge risk there that you're sort of underselling, you know, that they kind of looked at Skinner, looked to the back end and thought, you know, that's what we want. But there was, there was, they were clinging on to the hope that on the day, you would get the business done, because it easily couldn't have, you know, you know, you know, how close those margins are when it comes to that team's front first lap for the P3. Yeah, 100%. And like, you know, we never, you know, we'd actually fought tooth and nail the try and get some sort of objective trial. And the best that they come up with or the, you know, all the top, top brass in British like him's like, hang on a minute, team sprints three laps. Let's do it. Let's do it. Right. Let's do a three lap trial. Just bloke by themselves. All of different kit. Just, just, yeah, let's just see what happens. And like, no one really knew if they were looking for like your rule 750, the individual, it was all like, no, the beautiful thing is that you can use that day to evidence whatever you want. And, you know, what a silly thing looking back that that was the best we could do. But ultimately the best team road. And, you know, good on them. And I believe that after all your battles, small gears did went out because what gear was Kalamon for the 100th final? Like 98 or something? I don't think that's one of these. But 102, I remember that, and 102. But, you know, all I'm going to say, all I'm going to say is 120, we've got even faster. Yeah, that's because he would have a tool off the New Zealand team because he would have caught the reverse draft. But yeah, so I think this is where actually your story gets even more interesting. You know, it is obviously, you come off after Rio, obviously head to Japan. But it was then in, it was September 2016, was when you started with uni as a doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, like left, left GBE, been in that system for six years. You know, and I think I think it's, it's really, as you say, that kind of turning point of having had those moments the year before, where it's okay, actually now I can start to do this. You know, because, because by sounds like, like you're creating a wrong way, but like by sounds like, if maybe that wouldn't happen, you probably might have just sacked it in and then just went fully into, into med school. Yeah, I was just thinking, and we would never have had that Bucks air pick jewel. Let's hold that back, just know. Yeah, that's too big a story. That's for the talk about it. You can certainly see the whole time there. So actually, right, Johnny, there's a backstory to what you just said, and you just reminded me, right? So, and it is about how I started medicine. You know, I always like to, I don't know if you know this guys, but I like to joke and wind people up, right? And, and, and like the, I remember we have this final session, this final track session, where B.C. guys were going to tell us like who made the team, right? Because all the numbers have been crunched the scores were in and you know So we were going to find out, right? And we knew they had this senior manager meeting at 9 AM. I think it was a Friday, right? And so we're coming into gym on Friday 10 AM. We're sort of looking around. Coaches are sort of in there. Who are they making eye contact with? Who are they not? When they're going to tell us, they haven't told us by lunch time. So we can get ready for track it to a clock. I'm like, oh, who's Jan talking to? Who's he in having an extra chat to just definitely not me? And I'm like, right, you know, the way they're going to sit the star after the session, definitely. If not during the session, after the session, I'm looking around. And I'm like, you know, session finishes. And I'm sort of sat there and getting, come on guys, this is going to be it. You're trying your time leaving? Yeah, I can see you're like, yeah. Like, to change my gear three times, just to try and like hang around. And it's like session finishes at 5. It's like quarter six now. I'm thinking everyone's still here, but no one's talking. I have a quick shower. A shower. I'm trying to set everyone still there. I think, come on guys. Yeah, six o'clock comes and goes. And I'm like, oh, OK, fine. It's not going to be done. So I just walked back and drove home with the wife, Keira, who's also on the on the GB cycling team as one of the endurance skills. And I guess notification on the way back, you're driving the car. Luckily, I'm a passenger, not driving. I get this email and it's just titled Dear Rider at the top. They obviously personalized it using one of my nickname. And they basically said, following blah, blah, blah, looking at all the data and results, I'm sorry to inform you've not been successful for making the short list of the real teams. Oh, cool. So I've been in the Veladro Memorial Day. I'm like, I'm self-hombed being fairly approachable. No one could look you in the eye and tell, look, look, great effort, but really sorry, pal. You didn't make it. And so it's only dormed on me that I'm about to start a whole new life. No one knew this at the time. I wanted them to pay for Japan. I'm about to start this whole new life. I've got it. In all, we've all squeezed that lately. So it's that this whole new life in medicine where people are having the worst conversations on a daily basis, like real conversations. Not like, oh, we're not picked for a bike race, mate. Like real hardcore horrible cancer diagnosis or terrible prognosis of patients that are in intensive care. And they're managing to have a number of these conversations on a daily basis. And you couldn't look me in the eye and tell me, I've been here for 60 years at that point. You couldn't tell me face to face that I'm not making the Olympics. So what I basically did, because I'm quite petty, is I enjoyed them paying for me to go to Japan. I had some of the best time on the bike ever. And I came back to the velodrome. And I stealthily cleaned out my locker. Took as much kit as I could out my locker. And just left, just sort of walked off. When I always dreamt of leaving British cycling like that, why just sort of put the car, put the flat up, just down the M6, M5 through Monmouth, and go home. And there's a lot of miss calls and stuff like, where are you, you know, big plans for Europeans and worlds? World Cup start next year. So I'm just done. Just done. And I wanted to sort of, in a way, show them the same level of respect that they'd shown me really. And I really enjoyed it, must have meant. It's quite hard. And also, yeah. Yeah, also, I wanted to be the one to control your own destiny and actually fall on your own sword and be like, look, you know, I'm not going to wait to be kicked off this program and do another couple of years and get strong along and maybe try to talk to you again. You know, I wanted to just just start something else, just like, come on, let's just, let's just move on. And at that point, I felt like I sort of knew enough about training, I wanted to train myself, coach myself, train what I wanted, you know, and, right, big years. And just do something different, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because the interesting thing is you're, you know, you kind of prefaced it there. Your cycling journey didn't end because a lot of people would have just, as they moved on, just went out packet and it's not worked out. I was going to do medicine, which in itself is obviously incredibly full on. But then you sort of decided to manage cycling alongside that. Was that was that because the call is was on the horizon? And you may be, you know, we know your passionate patriot Welshman. Don't know why. Couldn't, yeah, don't know why. Don't know why. Right, the thing is there are, there are a very select few of us who are fortunate enough to be born Welsh. And thanks. Thanks. Well, yeah. My heart goes out to you if you're not. But, you know, let's be honest, at the time, we were actually a bit ahead of the game. We had this fantastic trade team at the time of sponsored by USM. So I was like, a hand a minute, are you telling me I could, I can still get paid and ride for a team where, okay, like it wasn't that money was no option, but basically we go to any world company wanted, any grumpry we wanted. I chose what bike I wanted, what wheels we wanted, because the team, like it was obviously a smaller outfit, but they, they truly believe that I was a medal option at Commonwealth Games. And so did I. And so I was like, I'm going to team sprint if you do remember. I actually just jumped on to our masters. And the first mess you ever sent me was you got for team sprint at commies, because for some reason you thought I was Welsh. And I don't think we'd even really ever met. Or you're just like takes like me, I got one. Got serious. I think I got excited. I think someone told me that you had like a Welsh grandmother, because no way people do. And you would have done that and I would have burned down his house. Sorry, Wendy. So I didn't know the next message. The next message is the Derby Wheel start list. And Nesey looks like two of us out of the cryo chamber. Honestly. Yeah, good times. I like, yeah, there's not many UK riders if any at the time, especially sprint. Let's be honest, if you're a sprinter, you're a little bit weird. You don't really have opportunities to race your bike at world level unless you have the backing of like a pretty serious team. And that was how, yeah, we managed to basically like, I think there was, there was three or four like World Cup medals in a row. Like you say, Johnny, in the British champs jersey, it was pretty cool. And so I was like, oh, this is, this is pretty, pretty bloody good prep actually for, for coming games, which obviously ended up ended up with a, with a silver. And, yeah, that was a particularly special, special day actually, because I knew that was going to be my last race. And I thought it was going to be my wife's last race as well. Yeah, last race. Yeah, last race. I did that personally. Just to that person. Who better respect on the cheese? I thought four hearts are a reason that still hurts more. So yeah, and then, and then like, I did have to retire after 2018, really, because if I'm truly honest, like my head, my head doesn't look like I'm going in it. I was having to hurt myself on a daily basis on a walk bike after a full day of med school, you know, sometimes 10, 11 PM at night. And my wife, bless her. Kiral, be telling me, you get on that bloody walk bike. If you're serious about coming, you're like, oh, darling, I'll just do two sessions of my life. No, you get on there, boy. And so I've been training. You put the belt in the mirror. You can see who wears the trousers in our language. And like, yeah, 100% like it took a lot of mental strength. And we were training. So I got from basically training in like world class facilities with everything being monitored to basically training in this communal storage cupboard in this block of flats I was living in that you couldn't actually go too hard on the bike or what bike because it would just kick out all the dust and you'd be breathing it in for the next for the next hour and a half. I don't quite know how we do so well, but big shout out to Medi Cordy who covertly coached me whilst he was at British cycling. Where are you, legend? I love it. I don't know. I don't know. I'll be listening to this right now. I love the Medi Cordy secret coaching. There's always just like little athletes scattered around the world, you know, just like let let you know it's just. I'm excited to read. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly, yeah. Now, if people knew how good, how good Medi word every every federation would be, yeah, it would be yeah, ask it after him. He's a bit of an innovator. Somebody you can chat to, somebody obviously, that people know it's quite funny and joking, but obviously can be very, very serious. Come to like a different sort of background, really, to classic cycling coaches, but I'm amazed that British Hiking didn't snap him up as well, or maybe he's just too good for them. - Yeah, see, yeah, too funny. - Yeah, yeah, definitely. - Shout out, mate, either. We're a big fan of media recording this podcast. - Yeah, it's a double guest. - Is it a triple guest? - It's a double guest. - It's a double guest, don't we? - Yeah. - Wow, what a guy. - Yeah, what a guy. But yeah, we do. - Again, we do, it's a catch-up, so it's just easier. - Yeah. - Yeah. But yeah, I think then like, for you, as you say, there's that transition from going from, yeah, where you know, being on a GB podium program where almost every need is catered for and then doing it yourself where, and even as you say, kind of a mixture of coaching yourself, working with Medi, and almost in sessions actually training by yourself. And then again, it's something we've kind of covered a bit in this podcast, even with social Shane Perkins, that kind of similar approach that he had through the years. But yeah, like was there anything that really stood out for you through that period that you maybe really got right or were we were for some of the challenges where as well? - I think it was just taking the pressure off. It was taking the pressure off. And you know, like if you're having a bad day or having the assignment to get in, you just don't stress about it. You might miss the odd session. Like, you know, I was told, who British Likin' Days all about, you know, like, we almost like training out of fear and like, didn't want to do anything wrong and everything had to be absolutely 100%. And then suddenly I'm in this arena, which is just like the complete opposite. And I'm like, oh, why wouldn't I like this when I was on the program? - Yeah. - It's like a free to feel sort of, you know, like isn't it? - Like 100%. I always think, I've got this philosophy. I'm always believing it where, you know, you could give somebody the best program in the world. Okay, just scientifically, just work out everything they need from nutrition to biomechanics, to aerodynamics, to all the sports physiology stuff. But if they don't actually believe that that's gonna work, if the athlete themselves doesn't buy into it, it's just not gonna work. You know, you're almost better off having a bit more athlete input. And as a coach, you're like, well, actually, back in mind thinking that's a little bit silly, but grand scheme of things, you think in take ownership and they believe that basketball's gonna make the difference. Just let them have it, have this bit of wiggle room, which psychologically just sort of, you know, unlocks that and locks that next level, you know, you're always better, I think, to 100% commit to something that's not actually perfect, rather than sort of tipped around the world's best training program. So that was very much my philosophy. You know, I knew it was gonna work. Big gears, then. (laughs) Yeah. No, that's awesome. And yeah, I think it really, it was, you know, seeing that culminate in that middle of Commonwealth games. You know, again, well, you know, there's always that kind of like take of that is Commonwealth games, the kind of biggest event, but actually when you look at the final of the riders who are in those races. A one, a one was in there. Jack, Jack Carlin was, I think he was fourth. And we had a one in there. And we had, - That's the time when it was, - Definitely, it definitely was another top of the podium. We know that, we know that. - Yeah. - Plus general rule, isn't it? - Long John Silver. - A law physics law. - That was the, I was kind of the beginning of long John Silver, wasn't it actually? - Yeah. And I think then as well, and yeah, Sam, Sam Webster was in that. So like you, you know, if you look back and I think it's still on, it's a video out there somewhere. You look at the commentator and this, she goes through all of the line up, all the laws on the program, the start line. And it starts at the bottom and you've got Sam Webster who's through all the Palmaris, everything he's done. You know, I wound that I think had won the Worlds in the Kirin, the year before or two before maybe, you know, Dawkins, you know, all these guys are Olympic medalists or worlds medalists. And they basically got, they even say like this, we've got a wild card here from Wales. We have this big Oliver, they call me Oliver, big Oliver of Wales, you know, up there. And I was like drawing sixth position. And I remember still being absolutely goot from the semi-final that was only like, so half an hour before. - Yeah. - And I had to put, you had to put this big effort. So I was like, you know, right from the back as well as like, oh my goodness. And then it all just, it all just happened. And yeah, I still look back and I have a great, someone made me a great painting of a podium photo that was the Glades Dawkins and myself all embracing. 'Cause we were, you know, the three of us were, you know, we're good mates. And, you know, we almost had like a complete spectrum there of track sprinters in terms of personality. I'll personally, he's off the field. So he was a really special moment. One, I'm very lucky to sort of round off what had been to incredible years, me and a bike. And sort of leave whilst things were so good as opposed to drag it out and get beaten by Johnny at Bucks. (laughing) You still didn't actually. (laughing) That is hilarious part. Yeah, so obviously you've talked about the culmination being 2018, but I think we know between three of us. I mean, the less there's not preppy to it yet, but the true culmination came at the 2018 to 2019. Was it, which one was it? - It was both both. - We were at two years of enrollment. - Both, sorry. Sorry, I mean, it's all a blur. It was just such an amazing time to be involved in track cycling and watch it as a fan. So it's, you know, I think that we got two Bucks finals, you know, British University Champs 2018 to 2019, where we had these great showdowns, these two tectonic giants of the sport, two athletes who have chosen power and weight. - To broken men. - To broken men. No one knows whether they're there, no one knows whether a drag in the career along with the Scorsese Animal Risk Podcast. Lewis isn't even bothering warming up at this point, but they still put the show on because they're there because they love the art of it. They love the show. And, you know, I would just love to dive into behind the scenes. We got you both here. It was one of the greatest races in track cycling ever. And just to kind of pull back the curtain on what it was like in that big event, that kind of high stakes racing, you know, crowd of a couple parents. You know, how did it go down? How did it shape up? - Johnny, on that you go first. - Oh, wow. Okay. - Yeah, we'll go from the loser's perspective for a stack of those. (laughing) - Well, yeah, so we obviously had the British Uni champs. I think for both of us, we were just fighting to get money from our universities for a better scholarship. - There is a lot on the line, more on the line than normal actually. - And it was the approach of doing the appropriate amount of training where you can still deliver a performance that's appropriate for the level of the British University champs, which admittedly wasn't that high. - It's amazing how much you can get away with. - And you know, like I've had open heart surgery like a year before. So I just kind of like hopped on just to like, "Well, look at that go." And then yeah, so when was the first year about, I think I went 10-4. I was quite happy with that. I was, yeah, I'd race through the day trying to remember what a match sprint was and whether it was three laps, two laps, what you were meant to do. And then yeah, up in the final, I'll come up against parrot and mass. - For that point, I was peeking both of those. - Yeah, it's 20, 20. You can just want to come up, game is meadow. You know, it's just put bloody Sam Webster away, he's put Jack Carl and Wayne Akir and then he has to come up against me. - I mean, I think that year actually, yeah. Like we basically agreed that like, we'll race the first one and then we'll six day the other two. So yeah, so just 'cause it was like, "Well, we'll make it entertaining." I, you know, I'm not gonna blow out my ass for this. And then yeah, I may remember 'cause we did like the first one, I think last 200, was maybe like a 10-6. And then the next two, we just, we just did a six day. And also we were fucking track standing, like head button, you know, we're chopping, and I went in the first one just to let it go to three, Lewis wins an X-1 and a full finish, but like the last 200s were like 12-5. - Yeah. - But obviously, my goal was really good. - No, I think it's, and like, you know, like you said, Luke, it's about giving the fans what they want, you know? And you know, all these parents, like all four of them in the stand wanted to see that, you know? So, - They still talk about it to this day. - Mate, they do, they do. And I think the problem is now for Bucks, is how do you recreate that same moment? And the reality is they can't. - Well, listen, I've reached the Stenstein, and it's down to Stenstead Pan, since, quite frankly, it's just not a lot of the theatre anymore. - Well, that's all point. It's all very serious. - Loft was there with their nutritionists, their physiotherapy, their content team, you know, not them, they've got the earpieces in. - I mean, I mean, that is one of the funny things, is that yeah, like, - When's gone. - Yeah, you turned up and you had these unies, I remember there was like, yeah, it was Loft, It was actually. one of the guys I was coaching, because I was also coaching athletes at the time, I was still racing. But a guy that I was coaching, like Nile, and he was racing us another guy from Loughborough. And they were like, you know, telling the other guy to set up and make it easy for Nile, you know, like the amount of effort and intensity they were putting into this event. And then like, yeah, I know for me, and I'm assuming for Lewis, it's like I've done two weeks of training, I had to just stop going out on nights out at uni. And then I was like, I should probably try to do a little bit of training. Lewis is getting off the beers. That doesn't touch the bike. I was still celebrating in commies, do I mean? I actually remember, I saw these guys like, they're actually warming up. It was mad. I was like, what are you doing? You know, like the real trick was to try and arrive physically in the Bella Drome, while the 200 meter qualification already started. That's the real high. And you know, get your numbers put on by some random fellow whilst you're on the start line. Yeah, we'd know actually where to get pushed up. Yeah. But yeah, in all seriousness, there was only a moment after we raced Johnny, where we had both gone so hard. No, well, that was the next year that yeah, the next year we've done a little bit more training for it, I think because we both realized, we should probably try to reach each other now. Sorry, Cario. Yeah, and actually, I must be getting my ears mixed up, but whatever year it was, like we'd raced and I sweared out, I've never gone so hard on a bike ever in my life. Like, it was the hardest thing I ever done. Do you know what I'm like? We would just sat there in the track centre after. I mean, your heart was thankfully still going. Not anymore. Yeah. I was like a good six months after that. I still had doms. He's only just that's why he did the medicine degree. You had the figure of fucks going on. It actually felt a little bit like, have you seen like expendables? You know, when like this sort of all the old boys come back into the ring for one last hour. But let's be honest, they're not in good shape. They're a little bit. They don't really want to be. It's like a Steven Segal film when you're watching like, can I can't really fight with anymore? I mean, this is a bad guy. Well, go because we did three match. He's kept you sorry for them. Yeah. We did like three match sprints and it was the most brutal, because we're like pinning each other. I think I remember it came to like the third ride. Louis had pinned me. I then like body slamming to try, you know, it's, you know, mass and power. I tried to body slam the biggest man in track cycling down to the black, which didn't work. Well, I think as I remember even as a junior, right? Louis, I was like 16 and he'd be headbutt me in a key ring. I'm like me. It's got a world couple made the last week and no one is safe. No one is safe from Louis. I mean, like, mate, you put a learn. Well, yeah, I just remember that final match sprint and it's the last match sprint I've ever done actually. And I was just like, but I was just stuck on the hip for a lap and a half. And just still, you know, you just still have that like that belief. You know, maybe I can do it. I'm like headbutt and loose. I think I chucked him onto the apron at one point. I'm on the coat. Like, yeah, yeah. It was a best race very done. And I think that that was a good one to go out on both of us because, um, you know, it's set up my life outside of cycling because nothing could be any harder than that. Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, the box actually wasn't the end of your time in sport, Louis. You're just beginning just the beginning of a new chapter. Um, you know, we actually didn't start with the podcast that we'd separately do asking where you are. Where do we find it? Because we were so desperate to get into get into the brothel that we that we just get by that whole part. So, maybe this is a good chance for you to tell us where you are and what you're doing now. Right. What am I doing now? So I am currently speaking to you live from Revego in Italy. Um, so I'm currently now team doctor for the Wales under 20s rugby team. And we are currently away for our junior rugby world cup. So things kick off tomorrow against Argentina for our first game of the tournament. So yeah, like very, very fortunate enough to work in sport still. Yeah. Well, I still do a lot of work in any departments down south Wales, roughly, you know, sort of within half an hour where I live really. And I do absolutely love A&E. That gives me a lot of fun, a lot of fun stories to talk about, which I definitely can't talk about on air. And yeah, and sort of I always vowed I would never ever work in sport as a doctor, you know, having been a man, having seen other athletes. I thought no way. They're way too selfish. They're so self-obsessed, self-orientated. You're not making a difference to public health in the community. You want to waste the time. Oh, by anyway, I, unashamedly, absolutely love the culture of sport and professional sport and performance. So there we are. I'm back. And one final question, let's actually, I was just doing my research on your Wikipedia. And the Wikipedia, and I quote, "You're not ruling out a return to cycling after your medic. Once you've got your degree, you can seduce a comeback." So for the, and obviously there's a lot of people out there that are still wanting to know. There's a classical Commonwealth Games, there's basically a whole new Games. Wales, there's got a team sprint together out here. Yeah, yeah. You know, you could be right the record of 2014 where you weren't shit on those pen rails. So I'm not quite sure who's put that on there, but let me be absolutely clear. There's absolutely no chance that I am going to make a return. In the words of Shane Sutton is more chance of hearing the King fart. The disclaimer is that there is, however, somebody in my household who in all likelihood will be and is pushing to be in the Commonwealth Games next year for Wales. And that is my lovely wife, Keira. So peace take exclusive. Yeah, I know. Right. You have heard it here. I was just inconsented to us broadcasting this. That's what we use to significantly a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Get it, get it going. Get it trained. Get it going. It's time to launch it. Let's not be afraid of it, guys. Let's embrace it. Not only has she, as you've given me three beautiful children over the last four years, but she was basically inspired by Helen Glover and her come back to rowing post-motherhood and thought, right, you know what, I'm going to do this with the ladies. Show how strong us girls are and don't be put off by pregnancy and childbirth. And so, yeah, our beautiful baby, Ottele, arrived in the world five months ago and Keira's, you know, started training back pretty soon after and she's, she's going really, really well. So she's sort of, you know, inspiring, inspiring our kids as well to look at crazy mummy while she's on the walk bike in the living room. Yeah, you're the one going not get on the bike. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's feel circle. And I also, I mean, if there was one thing I thought we could go and tee with us three is that this wasn't going to end on an inspirational positive note. Somehow we've done it. And that's the art of the game. Yeah. Right. In in some way, there will be an Oliver returning to professional cycle. So, so before we say goodbye, Lus, we are going to ask from you to make a dream team team sprint of riders from any era, any generation. Who would you be having in your start line? Maybe who'd you have as your fourth to the reserve on the line? You can be in the team. Doesn't have to be you. But yeah, like what? No, you get emails and I'm like, what's the team sprint? What's the team sprint you'd love to see? Any era? Wow. I think I'd like to see Jamie, staff, man one. You can see I'm going with mass here. Yeah. Could be called team mass. What's your attention? Jamie, staff, man one. Who are we going to go man to? Well, there's so much good talent out there. God, you guys made this really difficult. Put down a spot like this. If I only knew that you still that you still did this, I would have like revised the little every podcast. Well, we didn't we didn't know that we still did this to be fair. Yeah. I feel like we've missed it. I would have gone. Robert Forsterman, man two. All right. I'm trying to think of how this would look up the start. Yeah, one thing is this is we're talking about real power not fake Instagram power. And then Arnold Turnell, man three. So actually interestingly you've actually got three very similar body shapes. The meaty the meaty boys team sprint. Yeah, I just think that would give me a lot of pleasure watching that team. Oh God. Okay. Well, no, thank you. Thank you, Luis. We'll wrap it up there. But no, thank you for joining us. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. You're doing absolutely pleasure. Thanks for having me. Wow. Yeah, that was, I mean, that was just as fun as I thought it would be. Yeah. You know, again, with us, we get to pick who comes in the podcast. Luis has always been one where we're like, well, get him on it. We have fun one. Not that many people know him, but we know he's got a story to tell. Yeah. You know, and something that people find fun and interesting. And a kind of insight that we haven't had on the podcast a lot of ways through Academy also through, yeah, his sort of weird kind of life after GB. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like the, obviously again, it's something that we've spoken about with a lot of different athletes, a lot of different coaches and things through, you know, across a lot of different countries. But like, I think it's just that that clarity of that message coming through from him as well, just like, well, when he actually started, you know, when he really found the way of enjoying it, of pushing himself of, you know, actually having agency, having autonomy, having say in his own career, having something on the island of control, you know, especially seeing, you know, the guy, he's an intelligent guy. You can't, you know, you can't just tell him what to do or you can tell him what to do, but you're not going to get the best out of him. Yeah. I thought that was, yeah. I was really, yeah, that really kind of stood out to me. Yeah, and I really enjoyed hearing a little bit about the selection process. I feel like in a lot of way, he seems sort of kind of surprisingly unbordered about it. Yeah. And there was that kind of bit of me that was like, one to prime, you know, how did it really make you feel? But I actually kind of believe him. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm just going to do buy it, I buy it. He was like, I tried my best, like, wasn't, wasn't fast enough. Or, and even if, and even if he wasn't happy with it, the time, you know, he's made peace with it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, I think I was something is, you can also see like, I can even remember from, you know, training with him and all the rest of it is also, I say, is quite grounded in perspective. You know, and obviously being a doctor does help that as well. It helps you see that actually, you know, it is just bike riding. You know, and that, that, that point, and it's even something I, I know for me as a coach, it's like, it's quite nice to hear that and be reminded of that. I've said, you know, I'm marrying a doctor. So I get that perspective quite often. But yeah, actually the conversations that you're having and coaching or you're having in sport or they aren't actually that difficult. Yeah. You know, and the impact of just being, you know, being upfront, being honest, being, just being real, being normal makes is much more important than actually getting the data of the numbers around the nails. Listen, I just enjoy that as a fan of the pattern of the, of the, the pure academy. Yeah, it's just the pure academy, just, just, just absolute no brain cell comedy. I know and love. As I say, it was what I just wanted to catch up one. And this is a great way of doing it. It was a very different age wasn't it? Yeah, because I feel like I've also never really sat down and chatted. I mean, he was actually my masseuse for a number of months. You know, we're another one of weird periods of time. Yeah. He was training at Newport and he was for some reason doing massages and evenings. But I mean, I've never really got into the boat. You kind of don't talk about a lot of that stuff because you just sort of like being in done, but it was nice to sort of hear about it, hear a bit of the legacy of them and the program and stuff and it back and back and a good old days. But yeah, yeah, no, so I think I think we'll wrap up there. We hope you as our listeners had a, had a good time listening to that. I hope you enjoyed that. And yeah, we'll be back soon hopefully with some more episodes. Yeah, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. It's goodbye from me. That's a goodbye from me. Goodbye.