Episode 381- Hayley Williams (singer/songwriter- Paramore/Power Snatch) part 2

You know what's up everybody? This is Toby welcome to the podcast if you're a new listener welcome welcome welcome I'm gonna give a big shout out to my day ones for the past six years my subscribers my listeners I appreciate people to talk about this podcast who share this podcast who support this podcast who write reviews for this Podcast really really appreciate all your support I've been doing this for six years I've been giving away for free so many people ask me why I don't film it why not monetize on YouTube when I charge people for it on patreon and their answer is because I don't want to I love these conversations in my kitchen I love the honesty I love that people want to come back for two or three episodes the recurring guests that I have all the time I love it no lights no cameras I myself do not like going on podcasts that are being filmed and have lights I've done a couple times I'll probably never do it again. 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I'm your host Toby Morse and Today I'll be using my Kiwi accent instead of my lower East side accent I mean if you haven't guessed this is not Toby Morse I'm Dan Smith and I have kind of hijacked the airwaves over here in in his kitchen for a very special announcement I've been friends with Toby for 25 years or so and he's always shown me love and support with everything I've done from my music I'm taking bands on tour having me create artwork for h2o and countless other things over the years I've filled in for them a couple times on bass and guitar and made memories I could never forget In exchange I've tattooed him a million times and might have seen more of his body than Moon has at this point Um, and today he surprised me and asked me to do my very own read and announce something that I've been working on That will now be a new sponsor of this very podcast I grew up playing and loving soccer or football and if music and tattoos didn't get in the way I'm literally positive. I would have been a pro A couple years ago me and my friend Kevin decided to start field soccer supply Field is a soccer based clothing brand, but mostly fields and idea and idea that was created from me being involved in bands and tattooing etc for over 25 years and experiencing the crucial amazing connecting element of what makes the world go around Community we kind of exist to elevate the passion for the beautiful game and just connect music culture Historic moments along the way So if you've got kids in soccer or you play in an adult league with your mates You know how it goes every season new uniforms new fees new hassles new everything Soccer is the biggest sport in the world But it's literally the number one sport in America that kids actually stop playing and the main reason is simply just the cost of everything All those old polyester jerseys end up in a landfill something too and the love of the game kind of follows soon after We're gonna do something different. 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A lot of friends who are straight-edge a lot of my friends who are coming through it I know a struggling with substance abuse and alcoholism can be really really hard especially knowing who to turn to can be really really daunting I'm here to say there are good friend of mine and his friends started his incredible incredible treatment center Carbrew 5 recovery they gave me a phone number 855 516 3332 you can text you can call them. It's totally confidential It's safe. There'll be something on the other line to help you out I can passion the human being to talk to they're hoping to navigate the process the insurance treatments They accept most of private insurances you can go refine recovery.com you find recovery instagram I know it's hard, but Reach out to somebody man people care about you people love you People wanting to be here for a long time people love you in their lives. If you go and do it Make this phone call. It's totally private I know people DM me all the time but going through and going through sobriety and trying to get straight and trying to take care of themselves And the struggle is totally real and refinery recovery is the definitely definitely move Reach out to them 855 516 3332 or text them 855 516 3332 you can call or text a number anytime 855 516 3332 you know the drill this number is here for you call Since 1987 Rockabelia has been around doing officially licensed merch No bootlegs all the artists that I freaking love from pop to hip hop to rock to hardcore to punk Over a half million items on this website independently owned Operating the USA Custom limited call out drop every month Exclusively on this website from visual artists and tattoo artists If so many bands that I love and artists that love from god got a blink Katy Perry bad brain feisty boys dala tribe Goldgrass 50 cent billy deptones dead canys DMX dr. Dre Eric being rock him google dolls haul notes new tang you to Snoop T. S. So on par more those is to name a few of all my favorite bands are on this website I've owned t shirts from all those artists throughout my life now. I know to go here only all officially licensed merchandise check out rockabelia Instagram also go to rockabelia.com and use my code over those c10 and get 10% off. That's rockabelia.com Use my code over those c10 get 10% off your purchases. Thank you to rockabelia for being our new sponsor Welcome to all those fans What a week what a response I had a mental emotional breakdown on Monday evening reading all the comments and the DMs and Texting with hilly about this conversation and I'm just so proud of it and thank you to all the new people listening to this podcast All the news subscribers. Please go back and check out the other 300 something conversations Also, please if you have any time I give this part away from free of a week I love sharing this conversation. So if you can go to apple code to the podcast and write me a review and give me some stars I really really appreciate that so much. That's all I ask you write me a quick review over there Even if you're a first-time listener, appreciate the support, appreciate the love Overwhelmed by the response. Probably this freaking conversation. I'm not gonna hold you up any longer. This is the part two of the six hour hilly women's podcast. It is One of the greatest conversations ever held any of my friends in my entire life and thank you so much for all the love All the support this week all the repost all the all the comments all the reaching out to me and I'm fucking so proud of the shit. Okay, here we go part two Like I do think it will shift. I do think this record is a really great way for me to like Put a pin in something. I don't and again like it's very new. It's like when I told Jack I think this will be the last record I put under my name. I really actually believe that But that in no way means I don't want to be making shit all the time. Because you go to shit. We can't talk about I do um let's get to heart we know we have to go to hard. Okay, it's my favorite song in the record I've been telling you from the jump that like you need a doche remix or a sissa This it's so it's so hip-hop to beat and everything I feel like I don't know. Thank you. That was another Daniel James like can't get soft I showed up and yeah Such a sick just those two words. It's great. Yeah, the first time I I heard people Describe things is like oh that's so hard was literally you They in my early 20s. Yeah people. Oh, that's so fucking hard. That's hard And I never really heard that before um, that's so funny Yeah, and I mean now it's a really long time ago now, but I I like picked up that that lingo and like brought that to my mind. So I inspired the song. It's it you did I picked up that lingo from you and and I feel like um I feel like That song really really does describe How it feels to want so badly to be vulnerable but to feel like being vulnerable being feminine being soft Being in love being any of that is just like a weakness somehow, you know, and sure It's so isn't it's like the toughest shit in the world to be a lover, you know to like to love really hard But be compassionate. Yeah, it's it's it's a hard job actually and it's harder even still to like do it for yourself to love yourself but The world we're in like the the scene that we grew up in all that stuff. It really does sort of uh encourage It encourages toughness it does when a lot of these people that I'm realizing now by having the podcast of you know dealing with a lot of issues kept inside maybe going to therapy now and use the hark was out that came from fucked up lives and childhoods And I had to put that shield getting tattooed early covered in tats as an armor as an armor. It's an armor But you know what I'm saying like yeah, it's like I'm a big soft. You know that you were two are very emotional people you love co-play I cried at that shit. I wish I was in co-play But yeah, I always think I'm too soft for hardcore because it was such a hard thing because I'm a very emotional Hard on my sleeve type person, but yeah, like anybody fucking there's always somebody harder than you anyway, but nobody's No, nobody's that fucking hard. You know, no, yeah Yeah, I everybody's email actually dude. I really have a soft spot for even like when I was younger and I'd watch movies I I love a character that is That is misunderstood and that is tough. It's actually such a teddy bear sure That is why I think I have such a soft spot for people in this this like Side of the music scene that is known for being more aggressive and angsty and tougher because I'm a I'm an intuitive I'm a woman also, yeah, and I can see straight through it like a percent lay I can see straight through Bullshit any of these guys you've ever introduced me to yeah, I can just see Whether it's sadness in their eyes or hear something in their voice all my friends are softies Yeah, and it's she's basically saying they buy the New York carcassine is a bunch of soft. They are They really are and they've been to a lot of teddy bears to yeah, they've been through a lot of men and I I just I can't help but see it and of course I want to like I Oh, my my instinctive nature is to like what how do I help? What do I do and that's where I have to learn boundaries and like you can't save people you really can't they got to save Themselves so true, but it's so cool. You have an outlet for people especially how you've started it and the type people you bring on because Unless they write lyrics that have to do with this shit when else are they talking about this especially with people That are coming to their shows and stuff. Yeah, I mean, I love have heart for this reason. I think they talk about really important shit I'm their songs and like I don't know I he's a sweet dad professor Yes, so cool so cool. I know yeah lyrics are there the lyrics are incredible man Mm-hmm like underrated band not nobody underrated, but they're like a big part of the heart could be for listeners have heart Also has other bands fiddle head. Yeah, the dude. Yeah, so good, right? Yeah, so good. I'm has some water. Sorry Then when the discovery channel Bloodhound gang what that was like the most randomist thing I was like I even know she even fucked with this shit like that was that was so randomly cool They they reach out to you and all like how that go down we had to reach out to them to get permission We had to reach out to two different groups of people because the second verse is entirely pulled from Jumanji with Robin Williams really yeah the second verse is is a Big long line from Robin Williams. I did not know that about trying he's essentially trying to convince His friend who you know he got he got stuck in this game when they were kids and she didn't get stuck But it ruined her life because she like was traumatized by her friend getting sucked into a board game, right and That's the lyrics in the song I've always been the lyrics in the second verse when I'm saying like 20 something years Yeah, ago we started playing a little game. I didn't fucking know that dude He's he finds her once he comes out of the game once he gets freed and I'm love talking about Jumanji like it's the fucking godfather or something right now. He said they won song to these I know that song. Oh, shit. Okay. No, that's fine. Um, they'll know eventually but The anyway, he's he goes and finds her and to finish the game and and really free them They have to they have to complete it with all the people that started so she's one of the people got you and he kind of tricks her into throwing the dice like he he He makes her drop the dice essentially and then that rolls it and it the game continues It's deep dude. That's what I'm saying bro. They are not making movies like they they're not making children's movies like they used to Well, they are making something like they used to because I actually cried when I watched it I know bloodhung gang even like that's crazy. Well bloodhung gang So me and Dan and Elise's wife we were hanging I was I was out here staying with them Last year at some point and we were watching MTV classics RIP MTV Yes, and Bloodhung gang came on and I went to the bathroom. I come up I think of a lot of things when I'm sitting on the I just do and Dan Dan also loves He loves sampling and shit So I came out and I was like Bloodhung gang was on and I was like you know what'd be crazy is like if somebody sampled this but use the lyrics and talked about instead of like it just being about sex It's like it's like about how we rip each other apart when we're in relationships Like we're constantly trying to get to the bottom of each other, you know, and it's kind of violent I think when it's when it's not a healthy relationship It can be quite toxic and and like feel violent and so that was kind of the beginning of that and then I was thinking about You know watching the Discovery Channel. There's a lot of emo videos in the early 2000s like taking my Sunday had one We're like it's all these clips from national geographic like animals tearing each other Yeah, I'm very crazy and so I was picturing that my head and so I was like I need to watch to monkey So I put to monkey on and we already had the chorus like because we were like it's just the bloodhung guys We're at a board on now. No, no at all. No, no atables involved in this one So worth thinking I watched I love any Robin Williams movie best those are my favorite childhood movies miss doubt Fire Jumanji obviously Why am I forgetting the hook hooks to go when yo yeah hook was pretty beautiful a lot of great lessons in that too but like I really love a I love a I love a moral of the story type shit, you know and Jumanji That line when I was watching it it just struck me that like You know, I'm just gonna say it. I feel that Paramore has been a game that we have all been a part of and It is gonna take every it is gonna take the people involved all all of us Playing it right and healing a dynamic and one way or another to be able to Finish it well, you know, yeah, and I was thinking a lot about this because the contract had ended and there'd been so many interpersonal Just like infighting about What was fair and who you know me getting more attention like when we were younger and then you get older and there's other issues and people Of course like not knowing how to talk about their shit like their own stuff, you know and I'm I love to talk about this stuff I like to talk about deep stuff can't probably too much like I probably need a break, you know but like I was just thinking about that and I was thinking about how 20 something years ago we started playing a little game and this one line in the movie like It just really hit me that with you. Yeah, that that relationships are hard and you can't one person can't Fix anything for sure, you know, that's like the best therapist in the world. Yeah, woo. Yeah There's really deep I was deep that was with you. I know it was connected to that move. I thought I was this Fun song but I don't know idea about all that stuff with your mind. It's heavy dude heavy Yeah, I I have all the songs to my this is a carpar's on like no, this is what it's connected to yeah Learn some shit. It was it was cool too that it was two things that came from my childhood because I have been working through a lot of like I guess just childhood trauma adolescent trauma On this record and It's crazy that this late in your in your career this album now like into your life Yeah, I really like focusing on getting it out. I think you have to feel safe in order to like you know I think you probably had to get to a certain point before you could write about your dad or talk to talk about him Be sure I get choked up singing a song called Sunday still that's about my dad in my son Yeah, that makes me emotional live too. I broke. Thank you I broke down in Mexico a couple years ago. I don't know why but I'll be with your penny wise and I started singing it and the whole crowd Was singing it and a lot of the times people always the point at their tears when I say sometimes it's in the song and I saw Some but I just fucking lost it and I stopped the song and I just hugged the dude I said I'm so sorry And I was like sure for like three minutes and we started again That got me yeah, it's fucked me up man. Then Max is like what are you crying for like Max hates when I cry? Max hates when you cry. Yeah, he had hate seeing us cry He did it the other day we were all together. No, um, yeah, next is next is true believer. We talked about that. Yeah, that was that's an incredible song I mean that's like when it first came out You know there was these images for each of the singles and this had upside down cross on it. I thought that was like wow For you to have that even though people that people that know you know that you're not really that's party a life anymore Maybe the people that didn't know and now they know You know that was that that was a bold kind of image, right? Yeah, I I knew I knew like I would have people close to me that would be like whoa. What yeah, what is this about but? You know actually I Feel like I want to Google it really quick to make sure I don't get anything wrong because it's about you or No about the upside down cross really. I love to know about it. Yeah, um, I'm just gonna read from the wiki because I feel like Oh, I see that You know, I'm a davie havoc. No, I've when I see that because Rusty made a bunch of customs like that for David. So when I see the, I think bad religion, I think like anti-relations. - Yeah, so the origin of the symbol comes from the tradition that St. Peter was crucified upside down. Okay, it says some other things, but I think to get to the point, in the acts of Peter, the author writes Peter's request was to be crucified upside down and it was to make a point that the values of those crucifying him were upside down, and that they need to look beyond the inverted values of this world and adopt the values of Jesus if we wish to enter the kingdom of heaven. I also read that St. Peter felt he was unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus. Jesus was obviously crucified on the cross, right side up. I think that, let's see. - Get some education, get to school right now. - I know, right? - I'm his paramour right now. - Well, St. Peter's code of arms features an inverted cross with cross keys symbolizing both his crucifixion upside down and his role as a keeper of the keys to the kingdom of heaven. I feel that like, there's probably way better things to read about it, a Wikipedia page. - But still, that's a lot. - But I do, I mean, I'm kind of, like I'm kind of at a loss for words a little bit because it's such a heavy topic and I've never felt like I'm educated enough to really teach about this or, but I know what I've lived and I know the way that I grew up and I know what a contradiction to itself. - Exactly, I was waiting for you to say that. - It's very, you know, I know that what I'm saying is very simple and there's a lot, you can get so much deeper in it. I love to talk to Daniel about this when we're writing because Daniel is so educated and he grew up in this culture as well. But it's just so fucking inverted. It's so backwards. It's not loving, it's not accepting you. And it has nothing to do with the Jesus that at least I was pretty sure I was reading about back in, you know, when I was in church and. - All creatures are equal. It's so crazy when I sent you that Christ's mercy too about like maybe he was a vegetarian, who knows? - That was an interesting thing. - My God is love and God represents the love of animals and the planet and every type of human. And I always tripped to my mind when I started hearing like, yeah, there's certain parts of religions that, you know, are anti-abortion or anti-gay. It's like, what? I thought, what's God is that? Isn't it one God? How come there's different God's reach genre of the religions? It always. - You're all the different denominations. - Yeah, it's like, yeah. So like, and how many Bibles are there? 'Cause if there's one Bible, then that's the one Bible. How can you, it's just when people take things from there they can use for their own lives, but then, and then on another side of them, they're being hateful towards something else. But no, I'm religious, 'cause I do this, but not this part of it. Like, I'll take this part from me 'cause this represents me, but this other part, now I'm not down with that. But, you know what I mean? It's like God wants everybody to be created equal. That's what I got out of it when I was forced to go to church as a Catholic, growing up and being an altar boy, go to catacism, do all that stuff that I didn't wanna do. But I learned that I thought that God was creative. Everybody and we're all equal to planets and we're supposed to be like this. That's my whole PMA stupid bubble I live in. We're all equal, we're all gonna live together in this peaceful, harmony world. That's what I always thought. You know what I mean? The God means to be all loving towards each other. But then there's this, like, you know, there's this thing, I don't wanna keep talking about the Presby. Is grandma the pussy? Is that part of the Bible? Is that Christian? And the whole of the Bible upside down? Is that, do you know what I'm saying? Like just that this happened? It's a business, you know? It's a total, it's such a huge business man. It's a business, churches are a business. It's sad, man. There are great, I know that there are great people and leadership that are Christian. And I'm not judging, exactly. Exactly. If you're religious, we love that you're religious. We love that you've found something that helps your life in a happy way and you have some, I'm not judge anybody who's religious, but healing was raised in it and, you know, she figured I wasn't for her. I was raised in it and I figured I was me when I found punk rock. I started questioning things. I wasn't like mad at my mom for making me go. I understood why she made me go 'cause we lost my father and she felt like we needed God in her lives, whatever. So that was a timing for my life, but yeah. So we're not judging any listeners, but healing's really been through it so go. Yeah, I think I started pulling away when I felt really judged for getting into the relationship I got into when I was 18. Maybe dying your hair. I mean, definitely I got a lot of looks at church when I was still going to church between tours and stuff, but like. But why can't you love God and have a different color hair color? Now I feel like the culture, the culture is like, definitely grown a bit in the sense that I think outwardly or the looks of it is more accepting, but when you see the real business of it, that's when you realize, oh, it's really not for everybody. It's really for the 1%. Like it's really a business that they are, again, it's like it's this co-opting of a belief system that I think can unfortunately be quite manipulative over people who are very vulnerable. They're at their lowest point in their lives. Sure. They get into a system that essentially, they're fed off of. And I don't know, I've seen a lot of friends get so hurt by it. I don't even feel like it was directly traumatizing to me. I think it was more what I witnessed that I thought, this isn't right. This actually is not an alignment with any of the things that I thought we were being taught. And I do see now the through line of how youth group culture was upon as well. I mean, I watched a couple of documentaries recently about this. - Floyd Apocryst. - There's so much apocrystery. And I feel like when I started to see that more and more and more, and especially as I became an adult and had to make my own decisions. And it just, it gave me nowhere else to go but to leave. But to feel like this isn't speaking to me. They're not talking to me. - Yeah, to be true and no more, didn't yeah. - No, they're not including people like me. And I'm a white woman who has money. Like I'm like in a very different position than people who are far less privileged and weren't born white. And the system that we live in in America is already rigged against those people. And then on top of that, you find that religion is being used as like a tool to help manipulate even, I don't know, I gotta. - No, it's deep, it's deep, it's true though. - I gotta find the stock, shiny, happy people. - Oh yeah, I've seen it. Okay, did you watch the second season that just came out recently? - No, I need to. - The second season really talks about the way that I think, you know, the title, shiny, happy people returns to examine the Christian culture war, pioneer, teen, mania. Like there was like, yeah, it's called shiny, happy people, a teenage holy war. - And a long march at the New World. - They really leveraged us young people. They taught us about pro life. And like they taught us obviously abstinence and all of that. But I think that we couldn't have realized how indoctrinated we were becoming into a belief system that could only ever benefit a super conservative Christian nationalist agenda. - Yes. - You know, and I find like. Is it crazy knowing you were so deep in rates in that and then would it turn out to be? - Absolutely, it is. I mean, and I wasn't even, even though I was involved in the sense that I played in the worship band if I could, I went every Wednesday to youth group so I could see friends. Like I wasn't even as fully engaged as most of the other kids that were around. Like, you know, they're trying to recruit kids and telling them they should be pastors when they're like 16 years old. Like let a kid figure out what they like to do first, maybe before you like, sign them up for this life that seems really hard. - When do we life would have been if it wasn't Paramorn? You didn't find those guys and start that band. Like if you would be still in that world. - I don't think so. - I'm not with kids and like young age. - I don't think so. I did see how that culture affected the guys in the band a lot harder than me. - Yeah. - Really did. And that's why we had such a big divide during brand new eyes because I was like, ready to pull apart from it. And I was kind of a little bit villainized for that but I don't feel like a victim to it. I just feel like it was that I was pulling away. I think that I have conversations where I feel I'm able to learn more and I'm able to speak on it in a way that I just, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to do on a microphone. It's really, I think I get nervous. I get too nervous to even-- - You even singing about it too? - I'm not gonna microphone. - Singing about it, no. I think it hits a different part of the brain or something. - That's how you're getting it down, expressing yourself about it though. - Yeah, that's where I think I have to keep writing about it and even if it's not in a song because I just don't feel like there's so many people that speak to it better than I do and deeper than I do. You know. - But you also live through it and have different experiences than other people had. - That's what it is. - That's what it is. - Yeah, I spent a little bit of time feeling kind of ashamed of the way I grew up and I don't feel that anymore. I just feel like, damn, what can I do with that? Like how can I use that? It's just for better. - Spread the word and the people, yeah, for sure. - Yeah. - Well, let's get something less heavy. - Yeah, yeah. - Let's see, how do I say that word? - Z-Soo? - Z-Soo. - Yeah, team Z-Soo from a life aquatic, the Wes Anderson movie. - That's what that song's named after. Oh my, what? That's amazing. - I like movies. - I know, it's a great movie. So that's what the tie to the song comes from. - Yeah, yeah, I love that movie. And I mean, I love a Wes Anderson film anyway, but that movie is really special. And I just think that water is always the way I talk about relationships. Like I always use water as a, since I was really young, like some of the first lyrics I ever wrote, like it's an easy way for me to understand the connection, like the matter that's between two people. And it doesn't have to be romantic. I think it can be any kind of relationship really. But it's like, my therapist says water seeks its own level. And I think that means a lot of things a lot of different people, but for me what I see is, if there's imbalance, the water's gonna try to find it. Like if you have like something that's, you can't see this. - Just lighting your arm. - I'm lighting my arm. And the water, the water's not gonna go like this. It's gonna level out, right? - Sure. - And I also think, man, she explains it so much better than me. But it'll find, water will find itself and it'll go, it can fit through. - Sure. - How do I speak eloquently? - How do I talk about anything? - But the water does anything. - But water seeks its own level, I think about all the time because I think that we're constantly trying to attune ourselves to other people, whether it's like a depth, like if they're talking about something that's like deep and it feels like it's heavy for them or it's inside of them, you're trying to meet that. - Sure. - And some people can't do that with you. Some people that you started talking about feelings or they started talking about, and you're not, it's like you glaze over or they glaze over. I think that that's one way we find our people is like, can we meet each other at the same depth? - Yes. - You know, like, is it cool for us to stay kind of on the surface for a little bit so we get to know each other better? Like friendships are like that, romantic relationships are like that. And so I talk about water a lot and I really try to meet people where they're at, but I also am always interested in going deeper. I wanna know what makes a person who they are. - You always look like that. - Oh yeah, I really do. I really like people to, I talk a lot, but I love people to talk about me. - Yeah, you're really deep. I didn't realize how deep you were, so today. - It's so annoying. - No, I love people. - No, no, it's a no. I annoy myself today. But I just really like, I like to also try and bring that out of other people because I just wanna know who I'm talking to. Like I know-- - That's good. Like you care, you wanna know about somebody. - I mean, it's what's hard about doing interviews 'cause it's like the whole point is I'm supposed to be talking about work that I've done or like my memories or shit. It's like, I talk about myself so much, but I feel like my favorite thing to do would be like, if we were hanging out and we weren't doing like, if we weren't doing this for like the podcast, for like my record and all that. - Yeah. - I would just love to ask every question right back to you and especially like I love when you talk about your dad. I love when you talk about Max and Moon. I love hearing about your upbringing and why you came to hardcore and why that type of music, you know, like all that kind of shit is important about people. And you can't have a friendship, a deep friendship that is like rooted in something unless you get down to the roots with people. - Sure, and you think like-- - Don't forget your roots. - No, you think the generation now, like the kids are having, it's because you think about the communication now, it's just phone, texting, apps, DMs like that deep conversations. I hope that the kids now are having conversations like that. - I think they are. I think especially like teenagers feel so much, man. And like, and you don't even have all of the words yet. Like you don't have the ways to describe everything yet. - True. - 'Cause that's why we need shows so bad. - Music's so important, man. - It's so important to gather together with other like-minded people and like let shit out, move your body and-- - It's good for the soul. - Cry and yeah, I do think that they're having those, I like to think they're having those conversations. I think that they're probably private, you know, and I think that's a cool thing, but like, yeah. - I think maybe now with the way the world is too, that people, I know people on social media laugh, but also I think with, you know, I think since the pandemic, you know, live music's gotten so much bigger and so much more important as so many tours and so many new bands and it's just like a beautiful time for coming together and actually experiencing live things together, you know? And living in the moment, I think that that's, I think there are probably more conversations now. Maybe a couple years ago, not during the pandemic, those couple of years might have been weird. Everybody on the phone's not really communicating. - The phone does make it really, it does complicate it, right? 'Cause we can pretend anything over the phone. - Yeah. I think you're feeling kind of even feel like you're being deep with someone and it's still not always real connection. But I still do like to think that everyone is like a super deep well. It's just different ways into it. That's how you find your people because some people you're not meant to go there with. ZeeZeeZee is kind of about that. It's like, "will you meet me here in the deep end?" I don't know if you're willing to, but if you're down then I think you should. You'd be a good therapist maybe. Man, now I got too many of my own problems. I need to put my own oxygen mask on. You're amazing. I've been doing it almost 20 years and this has been like, we've never had a conversation. But this has been so amazing. Well, we don't really ever. It's been a really long time. Two since we get this much time. You can't be so much time. I was like so almost done. I was so nervous. I think I got you right out here. We never get time to sit in targets. It's so sick. Incredible. I appreciate your time because you're very busy. Dude, thank you. This is driving to the American football house. This is one of those things that fills up the tank versus taking from the tank. Yes, we're technically working. You're running your podcast. I'm talking about music and my job. But we're still friends having a heart-to-heart conversation about things we've never talked about before. Do you know what I'm saying? This is kind of all I ever want to do. I would love it to be on the other side of promotional campaign where it's nothing about me and I just get to ask other people. I just get to hear from other people. But I am enjoying it and I'm very grateful people are down to listen to me talk forever. Have you done long-form pods before, really? Just that. New York Times one. No, I think what is this is different. It's not the same. This is very different. That's because you're friends. It's totally different too. That's why the energy is in what I'm saying. I felt like really good doing that but also still pretty guarded. And I didn't even really know that because I was having a good time. You feel guarded right now? No. I mean, for an interview, I do always walk away feeling like a little bit vulnerable but it's so different when you're sitting with someone you know. Yeah, we're friends. Plus you don't like it when you can erase it. Racer's the whole thing. Dream Girl and Shabuya. Dream Girl and Shabuya is one of my favorite ones. I started writing it on the Ares tour. I actually wrote a couple of these songs like "Started on the Ares tour." One hasn't come out yet. It'll be out maybe by the time this comes out. It's called "Showbiz." And so that one I started the chorus then "Dreamgirl" is the same. I wrote the chorus to "Dreamgirl." Thought it was going to be a paramour song. It didn't really click. We went to a studio in Germany. It just didn't really click. So I was like, can I take this? And I just. It's similar to water. I think there's also places in your mind. You can go where things exist still. You know, a version of you still exist or a person that's not here anymore still exists. And I think that it's important to have those places. And I guess when writing that song Shabuya became the place and this hotel that I can remember. I love it there by the way. I love Japan's best. Are you guys going to go back? We've been there in nine times. I've been there in years. You've been way more than me. I'm just going to be there. 2018. It's just a magical place, man. I really love how much they love music. I really appreciate it. It's nice. I love shopping there too. And people are more high in my height. So I can find jeans that fit me easier. It's nice. You're a crazy vintage shit there too. Oh, I know. It's the best vintage shopping. But yeah, like. Being able to. Do you ever dream and go to the same spot in your dreams? Do you dream? Yeah, I do dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like you have any recurring dreams? It's a great question. I wonder, man. Maybe there's a time during the month, maybe like you're in one time. I had a couple of the dreams similar kind of situations where I was somewhere. I just can't remember my dreams all the time either, you know? Yeah, I've gotten worse and I don't know if it's because of medication or I don't know what it is, but I go through seasons of remembering them and not remembering them. But like I've had multiple places in my dream worlds that I go to that I remember and when I'm there I like know where I'm at and it's crazy because it's so peaceful. And sometimes it can coincide with nightmares, but for the most part it's a peaceful feeling. And I think that I like to write those types of places into songs. Like the last, well it's not really technically the last song on the record. I won't quit on you. Is more about space. Yeah. And then there's water for like other types of relationships and then this hotel in Shibuya is like a liminal space where like it's in between time. Yeah. And nothing is really, nothing really matters, but everything can happen in it without it doesn't affect the timeline. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like outside of time and it's like that movie. What's the movie about loss and translation? Oh yeah, I use that big time as a whole kind of, yeah, I really used loss and translation as like my visual inspiration for finishing the lyrics, you know? Real, okay, yeah. But it's also about when you're in relationships for a really long time and like someone that was once really new to you or that you were really new to them isn't new anymore. And the fear that comes with that of like I wish I could be new to you again. I wish you didn't know all these things about me that are embarrassing like things I struggle with. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying I'm married though in the sense to right? I mean for me because I'm 30 years in I can speak upon it more, but yeah, I just know and I mean fuck this like this. My wife knows everything about me, but it's embarrassing. Yeah, some of the things, yeah. Yeah, like it's beautiful because you feel loved and accepted, but like it's also so embarrassing. I relate that. I use the word embarrassing. Like what kind of thing is embarrassing, what's that? My coping mechanisms. Okay, okay. I used to really, I used to really shut down a lot if I was overwhelmed by my feelings I would not talk about them. So I just wouldn't, which is interesting because I'm also a writer. Yeah. And I know how to write about them, but I wouldn't know how to talk about it in real time. Like if something happened, I would be like, okay, well, I guess I'm going to go deal with this. I was like an only child for a big portion of my childhood. And like I just spent a lot of time alone. So it's easier for me to recalibrate like when I'm alone. And you can't really do that in a relationship. Like in a really intimate relationship, you have to be willing to let someone see the worst parts of you just as much as the good parts of you. Yeah, I'm always seeing it all, man. Dude, and that's hard. It's like incredible. You guys have been together this long because it's a hard, it's just, it's just hard to like live your life, be in your own body and your own head. And then like you're doing it next to someone who's also doing that all the time. Oh my god. Then you bring a kid into it. I think for us we were friends first. That's why it lasted this long. We were friends and we were best friends first. And then I got a second chance because I wasn't really, I kind of played hard to get when I first met her because I had been cheated on. And then I was like, fuck girls. And then I moved to New York and she ended up coming to New York for the summer because one of this story. Where were you before New York? I was in Maryland, outside of the DC. But basically, Moon's best friend started dating Pete from Sick of It All. And she's like, I'm going to New York for the summer and I'll go with you because I think the roadie's cute, which was me. She saw me, you want to hear this story? I do. She saw me in DC in 1991. I had a shave tattoo out of the cane. I hurt myself. I was like, skin tone. Not a cane. I had a cane because I hurt my leg. I was like, I don't know. I had a cane with the shave tattoo. I thought that was hot. And then I would, I would have, I love some quirky shit like that. I would have been like, well, I'm done. So then she moved to New York and she met me. Finally we got to meet and she never left. And we became inseparable. She's saying, how do you write now? So yeah, you can come sit in here. Come sit in here. Come sit in here. Sorry, we're big time yappers. And anyway, I came to New York and then you know, you shouldn't have lived with me in Jersey City. Uh-huh. That's a long story for you. I love it though. I love this shit. It is. It's a good story. So she worked to a four in the morning every night. I lived in Jersey City. She lived in Manhattan. So she made me work for it because she really was going after me for a long time and I was too cool for school and all my friends were telling me you're stupid. She's whatever, whatever. And I was like, I care about girls. So I set my alarm every night for three in the morning and then I would take the train in from Jersey City and I go pick her up and then I walk her to her apartment and I go back home, see my own bed. After months and months, she finally had me come and see put her house, but she let me see what the couch. And then I finally made up into her bed and cut her with her whatever. It was just a pro. She made me work. Moon with the Christian values. Yeah, what the fuck? And then so then we finally held hands in public once in front of everybody in the scene. It's all we were dating. Wow. And then we came her facial and then you guys are such a cool hot couple too. Thank you. Moon is like the most the dreamiest. I've seen those photos. I've seen early days for the hair was on and pop in the fits were good. Like she was just looking so gorgeous and so fucking punk. So that's that you know, you were crazy to play hard to get. I know. And then we didn't wait. I'm just gonna keep it 100 on the podcast. We waited to do it into what she came to see me on tour. We didn't roam at the call of the same at a hotel. It was like nice, beautiful. It's like romantic. I'm obsessed with you guys. That's just so cute. And me and her will not really sexual people to be honest. Like we were not like I was never a player. I had relationships before that her as well. We weren't like out here being wild. We were very like relationship type people. You know, when they got cheated, I was just like, fuck girls. I don't give a shit. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna have broken. Your serial monogamous? Yeah. Me too. Sure. For better, for worse, wish I could just have my whole face. I can't do it. Uh, nobody. Not a single soul. Well let's go to some bars and about that. Okay. This is my favorite bar. I got married once in combat boots. Only listened to testosterone music. I had to kill my feminine just to do it. To get to you, I had to go through it. That shit is fucking. We've been talking about the whole podcast though. Yeah. Like you happen to kind of not conform but kind of be around a bunch of, you know, tough guys. Yeah, tough guys. They're actually soft on the inside. Yeah, that's exactly. No one would admit it. I mean, yeah, I wore combat boots at the wedding and somebody asked me, a friend asked me about it like a couple of years after the divorce. Maybe a year after the divorce. And I was like, you know, I never thought about it, but I never wanted to look pretty because I felt like you have this. Oh, man, I feel seen. Okay. Okay, I got two women in here. Yeah. Um, I felt that to look pretty meant to look vulnerable. Because like if you then are on display in a pretty way, like anything can happen. And you know, especially like going to shows, growing up in the worlds that we grew up in, it's kind of like you do kind of feel like you just, you're just vulnerable. Like there weren't, when I started playing shows, I was never around any girls in my own age. Yeah, it's more male dominated. Very male dominated. You know what I was like that too, yeah. Just like weirdos all the time saying shit, doing shit. And so yeah, I just, I don't know. You just learn instinctively how to armor up. And I do think that's why a lot of people that listen to this kind of music, there is a toughness. But I think what's interesting for me is finding where the balance is because the truth is we're all always vulnerable to being heard by anybody. But like femininity is such a strength. And I think to be able to express femininity is like a skill to me that I want to keep acquiring in my life. I just don't, I don't really, I don't have the, there's no handbook, you know. Sure. So the combat boots at the wedding was a real thing. And it, I didn't realize how I think some part of me just still felt unsafe, even though I was fucking getting married, which is supposed to be like, it's a different kind of, yeah. Yeah. So already in your head, you kind of knew that maybe this wasn't the right decision. What am I kind of doing here? And, you know, because that goes to this song, "Parishoot," where you're on the airplane coming back from Rio. And I mean, I think I know this is, but you told you, you waited for me, you said that you would have waited for me, right? And asked me on the plane to Rio, do I ever think of us? And you were at my wedding and I was broken. This may be, see, I'm gonna get, it's not even my wedding. You, my friend makes me emotional. And you were at my wedding and I was broken, you were drunk. You could have told me not to do it. I would have run, I would have run. That shit is powerful, man. I know. I just want to cry reading that, dude, because I fucking know you, I'm like, fuck. And then tell me the moment you decided to, you know, then it's like, tell me what was the moment that you decided to give up. You could have told me what you wanted. I would have done it, you know? I mean, does that emotion feel to write that? Yeah. But also, like, a lot of times I think those kind of lyrics come out pretty fast, because they need to. And if you think too much about them, you won't let them out. It's true. So they're like a splinter or like a poison or a drug that enters your body that you got to get out. And it's like, it's like, it was a hard song to write. Is it hard to release that song? Yeah. Very much. Yeah, even the lyrics are hard, even they want it by being married too. Yeah, I mean, yes, because we're talking about embarrassment. I use the word embarrassed a lot when I like describe how I feel to be perceived or witness for people to watch me go through things. It's like embarrassing because you can't do it right the first time and a lot of times you still won't get it right even five, six times. Yeah. I've made a lot of really just silly mistakes in relationships where I didn't listen to my gut and to get older and to have empathy for that younger version of myself instead of shaming her. It's just been a really long journey. I mean, it's now been ten years since I got married, right? Yeah. Or was it in 2016 maybe? So yeah, yeah, we've known each other a really long time and you really, I think met me at a point where I started armoring up a lot more. I started trying to get harder and trying to just do away with anything that I thought would make me. And it's funny because now I look back and I'm like, well, you were still a child and you were still a little girl basically. That was not tough and it didn't matter how I postured. I was still who I was, you know, like, but I don't have, I don't feel ashamed about that anymore. I feel like I wish I could have somehow, I wish I could have taken that girl out of that movie theater and ran away with her and they're like, you're free because you don't have to go against your intuition. You can like listen to what your gut's telling you. So this is a true story about someone like a friend of yours on the plane, right? Yeah. Okay. It's true stories you're telling. Yeah. I don't know how to write about it. I wish I was the kind of writer that could just like write some funky, imaginative shit, but I'm not, I'm not that person. I'm, I've only ever written about what's happening to me or that I see that's happening around me. And I have like wished to death that I could be a different kind of writer just to keep from like the pair of social nature of like releasing my diary out into the world. But you know what? Like I, every time I've done it, like when we put out brand new eyes, I was really scared at those, I was really writing songs about my bandmates and we were playing them on stage together. But you know what? Like it broke through a lot of shit for us. And we, we learned a lot. And maybe if I hadn't been willing to say it, nobody would have said anything. So I don't know, man. It's, it is scary to put your heart on like out on a piece of paper like that. But I also can't regret it because I'm trying to move through my lab, I'm trying to grow. Yeah. I want to be smarter and I want to be more connected to who I am into people that I love and the only way to do that is to be honest. Yeah, and I appreciate it. I'm sure the fans appreciate it too. And just they've been with you your whole journey and now. I feel like whether it's fans or just like peers in this scene, I feel really, I feel held up by you guys. And I'm so thankful because it's funny. Like, it's funny that at one point in my career, I felt super lonely because I've had, I've had. And that makes me sad hearing them in the podcast because we were talking, we lost touch then, you know, you going through that time, you're going to the loan out there, you know? Yeah, I just, I'm just thinking that everybody was against you. It's just the whole, everything that happened out here and all that stuff. You know, I mean, I've been talking to anybody about it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't. It wasn't even the right time, you know? But I'm so happy that we reconnected because I, I think it like, you know, selfishly, it's given me a piece of myself back that I lost and that I was like, again, I think I spoke about more in terms of like the shame that I felt. Yeah. And now I don't have to talk about it or think about it like that. I can remember all these incredible memories and like all the positives from it. So much, so much good happened to me. And, and I learned so much from so many different kinds of people and I discovered some of my favorite music in the world and yeah, it changed me for the better, ultimately, you know? Yeah, let's put you to a positive. So now me at the warp tour a couple weeks ago. Sick. And the singer gave a shout out to Paramore twice and said the only reason why he was there 20 years ago was to see his favorite band Paramore. And this is coming from like one of the biggest hardcore bands. It's like super hard. So just hearing that, me and Max hurt, and that's Max's favorite band because he shout out to Paramore like you freaked out about. But just that love from that community always, it's always love Paramore. And maybe back then it was like a guilty pleasure. Couldn't say you like Paramore. For sure. But as a years of change, everything's all meshed together and it's like people showing love for Paramore, you know, from from our world, you know? It's so sweet. It really is. I feel really like it's like very humbling to hear bands like that talk about our work, you know? Yeah. And then when I sent you the cold app that they made, the beat set out on Paramore on the show, cool. Oh, you know, I love Inside Out. And then seeing you jump on stage like this year, even making the rounds like Phineas, show, Bleacher, show, Linda Lindas, Deftone's Turn style, Remy Wolf. Yeah, Remy. Who's she? Oh my God, you got to know Remy. I'll send you some music. Remy's amazing and like she's going to be around forever. She's so good. Yeah, Deftone's too, obviously that was great. Remy by the way is like Shaka Khan. Oh really? Remy can sing anything and like to see her at the show that we I did with her. Yeah. Was like she was just covering a bunch of shit and she played a few of her songs, but it was mostly about like celebrating music from the 70s. And I was like, the speech can sing everything. That's sick. She's so cool. We love her. Yeah. And then our moment in Nashville was such a beautiful day. We got to hang with you all day. We went to Max and then you came and rock the song with us. That was so fun. Dude, I had not been to a H2O show in so long. It was so fun. It was such a fun day with you. Yeah. And you guys played some of those songs that hadn't heard him forever. And it was crazy to like remember all the words. It just all came back to me. It was such a sweet thing. You're hiding behind the amp with Max. Yeah, I like to sit by the drums. That's my favorite spot in the house. No, that was really a fun show. I'm really happy. We made that happen tonight. Thanks, man. It was a beautiful night. What's something you're obsessed in? Later, the subsession right now. Ooh, that's good. I feel like there's a really good scene in Nashville that's happening right now. And I think it's really important for people to start getting connected with their local scenes if they're not already. If you want to know what to do during these fucked times where it's in, go to a local show. Go start showing up and see what's happening in your town. I feel like Nashville has, there's such a beautiful thing happening underneath all the crazy horrible shit that's also happening. I love dark matter collective. They put on DIY shows and really celebrate local artists and smaller bands and they do a lot of outreach. There's a Nashville free store that sets up sometimes with them. They did that a lot during COVID where people can come shop for free. People need money to buy school supplies and things like that. There's a band called Snooper from Nashville, I think is really cool. Band called Total Wife from Nashville is really cool. Total Wife. Total Wife. Yeah, sick. Sick. There's just, there's a lot of good music in our town that I think people wouldn't associate with Nashville off the top of their head. But I also, I love, like, I'm just obsessed with going to shows again. And I spent like after COVID, I was very insular. I never left the house. It just, I think it took going through some heavy shit too to realize like life is long but life is so short and I want to be around my people and going to the Cambridge show was really big one for me too because it was the first time that was like. It was like, Brooklyn or something. Yeah, that was like leaving home to go, I mean, I had other work but like leaving home and being around so many music friends at once out in the world. Like, it felt like I was outside for the first time in a long time and I left that show being like, oh, these are my, these are the people that make me want to live in the world still and not be holed up at the house by myself. And so I think I'm just obsessed with, you know, I'm still listening to my gut. I'm not trying to burn myself out but I want to be around, I want to be around artists and music and I want to go see young people that are playing. Like I saw this show at permanent records in Highland Park recently. This kid, Davelas from Ireland played with his band. It was his US debut. It was like 150 people there. Awesome. And he sounds like Jeff Buckley but, but like still himself. That's cool. And I'm obsessed with that feeling. I want to like be able to constantly be championing artists and however that hopefully that plays out into something that becomes just what I, that is what I do with my life. But I had to start. saying yes to shit first. - I love that you did that. You do a lot, I've seen everywhere, everywhere. - It's so real because you also, I think especially, maybe it's this way for men as well, but for me, something that I've in trying to connect more with a feminine part of myself, I did have to learn what no felt like to me too. That was an important lesson, but I think I went too far. (laughing) I think I went so far to the nose that I was like, oh fuck, I'm by myself right now. I've protected my piece a little too much. And then the yeses started happening kind of out of necessity 'cause I was like, if I don't start connecting with people, I'm gonna go crazy. David Byrne was one of the first. I know that's ridiculous, but David Byrne may have single handedly saved me. - That's amazing though. - Does he know that? - Yeah, I told him the day his album came out. - That's awesome. - I texted finally and was like, I didn't, you know, you don't need to know all this, but like you really can never know what you helped me through when you asked me to be on your record. So anyway, I'm obsessed with that. - How about a dream collab? - Oh, a dream collab. Well, it's always SZA. - Well, it talks about that already, yeses. - I know that it's always SZA, but like, also like Rufus Wainwright. Like I love his voice so much. I think my dream would just be to sing his song vibrate with him. That would be fun. I think to write with other artists, like I would love to, I don't know, when Jack worked with Kendrick, I suddenly was like, - Oh man. - Could I ever do that? - You know Kendrick too, yeah. - I love Kendrick so much. But I also think my idea of a dream collab is changing because I never collabed with people really. I would like feature on a song vibrate. - Feature, yeah, it's different, yeah, you're right. - But I've been like showing up recently to people's studio sessions and like, getting a little bit more in the weeds, not so much writing for them yet. Like I don't really want to write lyrics for people. I think people should sing what they write. - Yeah, agree. - But I'm like learning what it feels like to be in other people's spaces and how to be of service to that. And that's the dream to me. It's not so much about like who it is. I jumped in the studio with Linda Linde's the other day and even just getting to witness, they like write in the room together. - That's cool. - And that was really beautiful to watch young people. Like, their new music is, they're doing so many styles. Well, the big range, I can't remember how old Mela is. She's the youngest. I wanna say 14 maybe. And then Bella, the oldest is 21, 21, yeah. And I'm just really proud of them. And I can see how they're growing up and their lyrics and it's just, it's really beautiful to see. And that, again, that's the dream. Just to be able to witness art being made and be of service to it if I can be. - You wanna sign more band with your signs and bands supposed to Atlantic? - I really don't know. It could just be what I put my music out under from time to time, you know? - Yeah. - We'll see. It's a cool name. So I kinda wanna, I wanna use it. - It's such a great name, especially being on Atlantic. It's kind of a disc, but it's kind of not. - Yeah, like it. - I know a lot of people definitely think I'm dissing Atlantic, but it's really just matter of fact. Like this is my career post that. - I know, I love it. What are some of your daily rituals? - When you're off tour. - I take a shit ton of supplements. So. - I take a shit and then I take a shit every morning at the same time. But I take so many supplements. - You're just gonna take multibitamins just do a whole bunch of things. - So many. Like the other day I did it and I didn't eat enough. And I like, - It's a worse thing. - It's not like puked immediately. - You gonna fuck with the AG ones no more? - No, because after I got so sick, remember I got so sick on tour. And I had to take all these antibiotics and it just like did not agree. So I had to quit taking it for one. I never picked it back up. Maybe I'll start 'cause it's got everything in it. - It's probiotic too, for your stomach. - Yeah, I think that was the thing. It's like I had taken all these antibiotics and it was like too much on my, do you guys wanna know about this? - Sure. - You're getting the constipated? - No, it dude. I thought it was an exorcism. - What do you mean? - Man, bro. - What just you having stomach issues? Like shit issues? - No, it would make me so nauseous. Like I was just, my stomach was so fucked up after all those rounds of antibiotics, my chest started like breaking out in hives like at the same time every day. It was, the body's crazy. But my rituals are more like either centered around alph or like my voice or stretching or, I don't, I wish I had more. But when I start traveling a lot, I kinda, what do you do? I'm like, I was actually, do you plunge it? - Dude, I was and no, I'm not. I'm like, so I-- - I got two plunges. - Yeah. - One in L.A. - Yeah. - I use the liquid death one is create. The liquid death one's hard because you-- - Plus you're so little, it's gonna happen. - There's no way where to go. You have to just drop yourself in. - It's hard. - The other one's a big cheer. - You can ease into it. - Yes, I prefer that so much more. - Everyone's just like, hard so you write into it. - But you know, I'm an Amy Polar recently. - Okay. - And she, which was, y'all, she's like-- - She's a plunger. - She's a plunger. She said it, she swears by for her anxiety. - I know, but someone you grow now. - I know, but so I told her I was like, well, I have this one in L.A. but I gotta get it to now. - She's like-- - She's like, "They're doing it, yeah." - Yeah, anyway, she swears by it. But no, I feel like, right now I'm traveling so much that my routine is so messed up. - You just sleep off too? - My sleep is off. Like that's what I was saying. I'm not really dreaming the same. - When you're on tour, what do you do? Do you like, are you like doing yoga or stretching or something? - Oh, I stretch. I do move rook warmups. I try to do my steps every day. I bring my AG ones. I bring all my, try to find my vegan spots. Happy cow app, all that shit, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Try to sleep the best I can. - Wow, happy cow's been around for so long. - Game changer. - Damn. - But sleep is the most important way of singing that for sure. - Yeah. - That's how you lose your voice, you know what I'm saying? - I've been surprised, like this promo schedule has been so crazy. I'm kind of like shocked. Oh shit, I better knock on wood. Like I feel like I-- - You lose your voice? - Yeah, but not until I went to Halloween orinites last night. - But not on tour, nothing. You do warmups all the time. - Yeah, I have this great vocal coach. He did, he did the string arrangements for true believer on Fallon. He's amazing, that classically trained. He's really helping me. - It's awesome. - He says I'm a soprano and I was like, I thought I was an alto. I thought I was like a low singer that just belted high, but he says I'm a soprano that sings high and I just know how to sing low. - He's founded out recently. - Yeah. - It's a new singing coach. - I met him through Billy. Oh, that's cool. The jet person, yeah, yeah. - He's great. - Beautiful human. - I know the answer to this 'cause there you're tattooed. Optimist or pessimist. - Realist. - That's a moiv is too. That's a moon says all the time. - Realist, yeah. - I honestly don't wanna be. I would love to be an idealist. And I do think maybe like we all have little pieces of ourselves that are other things. Like I definitely have an idealist in there somewhere. It's the part of me that sees the best in people, which is how people can take advantage of me. - Yeah, I mean too. I do have a problem with like seeing, I do have a problem with seeing the good in everybody. - Yes. - Why I said that's a weakness. It's also a good thing I have. It's also bad, dude. - But everything in life is like, it's like everything is about balance, right? Everything is both and it's like, it can't be black or white. Like you always wanna be someone who sees the best in people. You don't wanna throw that away. - I know. - The best of all your boundaries. - Boundaries are so hard. - Boundaries are hard. But then you judge and everybody too, like can't trust anybody. That's how you live like that. - Right. - Unless you've been fucked over and cheated on or really fucking, I'm saying they really been through a lot of shit with people. Like fuck everyone trust everybody. - Mm-hmm. - But then you can always get it back though. - Yeah. - But you trust back. - Yeah. - You're a realist. - I'm a realist. Yeah. What are you? - Probably an optimist. - You're definitely an optimist. - Yeah, an optimist. - Like you're not a pessimist. That's for sure. - No, no, no, no. - But you're a dreamer too. - For sure. - You dream pretty big. - I do. Thanks for noticing. - You're welcome. - Any regrets in your life? (laughing) - Yeah, I mean yes, but also what are they good for? - Sure. - Like what's a regret really good for? It's kind of a useless waste of space in your brain. So I try to like, if I ever am starting to feel that, I try to bat that away with like, that's useless. That's not helping anything. So maybe I'm an optimist. - Yeah, dude, maybe. - Turn it over a new leaf today. - Right here on the podcast. - Right here. No, I think it's, I do think it's a waste. And also like don't we just become who we become through all those choices, like all the mistakes and all the bad shit that happens to us. - So a lot of people say yeah. - So no, I don't have regrets. - This is a random, you good sleeper at night? - Yeah, I am a good sleeper, yeah. - You can shut off the world and just shut everything down. Shut your phone off and go to sleep. - Yes, I can't, I'm really, I love sleep. But when I travel, I think when the jet lag, I'm really bad with jet lags, broodle. - Yeah, and dude, once I turn 30, it's like, it changed. I don't travel as easily as I used to. The jet lag is brutal. - Narls, Barclays. - Like coming from where, like Japan or whatever, just anywhere. - No, like LA to New York. - Nashville to LA, like. - Three hours? - Yeah, man, it's crazy. 'Cause I think it is because I do have sort of a routine when I'm home. I like to go to sleep, but like, I like to, I love to be in bed by 10. That's nice. - That is really good, yeah. - That's luxury. - Yeah, when you home, you mean, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Put on a tour, it's hard. - Yeah, I mean, you're not eating until one in the morning. Like, go on tour. - What about any more tattoos besides a glume? Any new ones? - There will be, I've been making space on my thigh. - Oh yeah, it's for me, I should have to remove it. - Remove re, yes. - I'm making space. - I wanna do big, me without you, piece. I really wanna big back piece, but it's gonna be a minute 'cause honestly-- - That's what you heard too, when you get all there too. - Yeah, I'm a pussy, and also I got a job to do, and I can't just be running around with a raw back for a week, you know what I'm saying? So it'll probably be in some downtime. - So what do you wanna get a back piece? - Yeah, I've said this for like four years. - What do you wanna get? - Probably literally flowers or some shit, you know? But I don't know, then I saw Doja's bat across her back, and I love bats, you know, I lived with a bunch of bats in my house for a long time. - And she get a bat? - I should, I probably won't do that on my back, but I want just something that's just, I just want decorations. Remember Max, when he said hair, it's just a decoration. - Yeah. - Yeah. Also Max always wanted like obsessed to get like, a dead bird on his face, or his first tattooing as a baby, 'cause you saw the Atticus logo that did bird member from then. He said, "When I went to the day bird of my family, what your first tattoo?" - A face tattoo. - Yeah, I never got it, obviously, but like. - She is. - He wouldn't now, would he? He doesn't seem that obsessed with tattoos. - He really is, he's has like four. - He got the Morse one and he's like, I'm great. - Yeah, he's got some other, yeah. - I probably will get a lot more tattoos, but that's just 'cause-- - Let me crazy, we got sleeved up like in your 40s. - Who knows, I'm right, but I'm really into slowly collecting. I'm not like, I'm not gonna go in. - I'm gonna go in. - I do. I thought during after laughter Joe, who plays percussion for us, he's like a collector every city. He's getting something from somebody that he met or someone he wanted to meet. And like, I kinda thought that would be, I would be in that era during after laughter 'cause we were having so much fun traveling during that tour. But I don't know, it just like gets away from you. - Yeah. - Time gets away from you, man. - It does. You binge watch things right now, you watch anything. - Goggle box. - Okay, he told me about that era. - I told you Goggle boxes, the shit. - And what stuff do you like to watch? Like what's something you like to do? Documentaries? - I love documentaries. I like to learn. I really like to learn. But what am I binging right now? - You watch silly things like, 70 day getaway, man, what's that shit called? - Oh, just like trash TV, like, yeah, I have. You know what I'm really into that? I think you'll find interesting. And you, I don't know if you and Moon would want to put yourself through this, but, because it's crazy. But I got into this show called Welcome to Plathville. And it is about a family who are definitely like super-crische, Christian. - Okay. - And, you know, the way that they do it is very similar to, I've seen a lot of families like this in Franklin even, but like, they sort of keep their kids away from culture and their kids don't, they don't eat candy. They didn't drink soda. - Wow. It's almost like hearing about what you hear about, like, Amish families, or like, just like super conservative in specific ways, right? But like, anyway, the Plath family, super conservative family, like, they're all like basically, they all blonde here blue-eyed, lived out in the country and somewhere in like Georgia or something. And like, I've watched it from the beginning. So, you see a couple of them sort of like, kind of deconstructs. They're upbringing and then some of them like go back to it. It's very interesting for someone that grew up in it, but I even think it's, I think it would be interesting even if you didn't because-- - No, I definitely like to check it out, yeah. - It's like a social study, you know what I mean? - Well, watching the John Wayne Gacy thing right now, it's so heavy, man. John Wayne Gacy? - Wait, wait, wait. - So, New Season just came out. - Wait, wait, wait, wait. Someone was just talking to me about this last night. - It's dark, man. - Is it a dark or a series? - It's a series. - Mm. - Yeah, do you like serial killer stuff? - Unfortunately, yeah. Unfortunately, I like to fill my brain with a lot of murder. Death. It's really good for me. - Moon loves that. She's watched all that stuff here, man. - I wonder what it is. Like, I really want to get into the psychology of it. I think it's like-- - There was some study that said online, you can quote me, it's something about that more women watch that type of stuff than men, you know? And then, Moon's like, yeah, I'm learning how to cure you when you're sleeping or something. But I don't know, but there's something about that that it's true if you can look it up, supposedly, yeah. - Yeah, I definitely am drawn to dark, really, really dark shit, you know? And it doesn't stress me out like it probably should. - Yeah, I don't do sleep over. If you watch some crazy shit, it's going to be bad, yeah. - Yeah, I went, did Halloween Horror Nights last night and I saw some pretty obscene shit inside of the Maze's that I was like, I hope I don't dream about this later. And of course, I did and I slept like a baby. That was great. - So it's pretty scary there, though. It's more just like, it's really-- - You jump, you scream. - I mean, yes, but I think I screamed more and got more jumpy when the Linda Linda's were with me before they left because they had school today. - So cute, man. - It was so fun to be with them, but like, they at one point were all holding onto me and I was like, there's nothing I can do. Like I am five foot barely five foot deep. - It's so cute, man. - They're so cute. - Good to protect her. - Yeah, yeah. They're the best. - What about some hip hop love? - Hmm, Big Crit from Rhyde and Mississippi. - Okay. - Big Crit is amazing. I love his lyrics. I love the issues that he speaks to. I love how he represents this town that like, honestly, I've had a really hard time associating myself with because just, I don't, I mean, I was ready to get out of there when I'm-- - It was from there, okay. - He's from there, so I listened to him and I feel connected to this, a point of pride about my hometown where I come from, you know? Also this other artist, she's not a hip hop artist, but she's from Mississippi named Kirby and she put out a beautiful record that like, it's like a protest record. But I'm just, I think I, I'm really interested in people talking about where they're from. I'm interested in like the world getting smaller in that sense. Like I love seeing about, you know, there's like this guy that's running for, I don't know if he's running for mayor, if it's like a Senate. See, I don't know what he's running for, but I keep seeing him on my feet, he's from Maine and it's like, there's a big story about him. And I, and so, and it seems like, I don't know anything about, I don't know if he's controversial, but it seems like he runs on a pretty progressive, on pretty progressive issues. And as, as I'm getting older too, I'm really enjoying learning about local politics in different parts of the country and similarly music scenes in different, and not just punk, but like other types of music. Because I think it helps me understand who the person is that I'm listening to and it helps me understand that part of the world better. So hearing Cret talk about Mississippi is a really cool feeling 'cause I'm from there, but I didn't grow up there. And I still wanna know, I wanna know what's going on. Yeah, I would say that's really the one. - That's something new this interior, yeah. - Yeah, and I've known about him for a while, but like, I don't know, just this particular time in my life, the way I'm feeling about being from the South and about my hometown in particular, I feel extra connected to his music. - I'm gonna check him out, that's awesome. - Yeah, I think you'll really like this. - You like the classics too outcast, all that stuff in the party, stuff. - Yeah, that's mostly, and like, especially like Southern hip-hop, I loved cash money, anything, you know, that was like my shit. And, that's cool. - Yeah, I love that. - It's just something versus the other day against Master P, no limit, and a whole battle the other day yesterday. - Oh, really? - Yeah, that little Wayne wasn't there, but it was still cool. - Oh, that's really cool. - Yeah. - And that'd be sick. - We talked about Little Wayne. - Let's go, let your clap put it out there. Yeah, we talked about cold abs. Little Wayne would be sick, that's right. - Little Wayne was hugely inspiring to me when I was a kid, 'cause he was so young when he started, and so I was like, I can do it. - He was like 14 or something, too. Like you. - Yeah, I can do it. - Yeah, that's a good call. - Yeah, it's so true. - You're in the way of you, you guys are meet before? - No. - Damn. - I put the atmosphere like that's one, I know one person's really good friends and one person way right now, I'm thinking right now. - All right, maybe so. I mean, I love Outcast, but I'm obsessed with how Andre 3000 is moving right now. - Let's talk about the real quick, let's talk about that. - Well, I just think that it's inspiring as an artist that like I've been here a bit kind of doing my thing, but I wanna know what else is out there to do and watching him just be like, I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want. - So he lives here. So he goes to this restaurant that we're gonna go to now. I've seen him there twice around this time, the last two weeks, I didn't say nothing to him. I'm all by myself eating, he's ordering food. I'm gonna see them, I'm not gonna say anything to him, 'cause I'm just so like, I wanna say hi to him, but I can't do it. He's vegan, so he's always at the spot and he's around here. - What? - I see him twice in the past month. - So he's me. - I text all my friends, I'm like, yo, he's here. I don't say anything to him, say hi, I'm like a container. - I can't, I'm a wrestler. - His overall is all I think so cool. - He's so cool. - I love that record, the flutes, I love it, I travel, I love it so much. - My vocal coach was wearing the shirt the other day that said, listen to Shade, and I was like, what is the shirt, and he goes, it's an Andre 3000 shirt from his show. - Oh, I need to buy that. - And he didn't wanna put his name on it, I was like, that is so cool. - Oh, she was a Shade A too as well. - Obsessed. - Obsessed, and she has a new record coming out. - Yeah, that one came out last year, I think, but, and I loved it, but yeah, she's, so. - That's bucket, let's me see her, yeah. - Sorry, I'm not talking to Mike, I keep forgetting. I get too excited. - The thing about Shade A, that to me, I keep coming back to, is that when I listen to Shade, it's the same as when I listen to many ripperton, when I listen to Salange, I feel more connected to my own womanhood, my femininity. And I feel that they display a strength, Eric Abadoo, same thing. They display a strength that can be quiet, and I've spent my whole career yelling and belting. And so I'm learning a lot about how to pull myself back into myself and stop trying to project everything so far away. Like people can, I can be embodying myself and feel softer, and if people are interested, they can come to me. And that's a lesson that I haven't fully digested yet. I don't think I live fully in that yet, but I'm trying to get there and Shade really helps. - Yeah, she's so powerful, but she's so not intense. - She belongs to herself. - Yeah. - And so, yeah, when you hear artists that are like that, it's-- - What about Adele? - Yeah, I mean, you can't come on. And she's so cool, she disappears and comes back. And she's ready. It's sick. - I know, she's incredible to watch. But yeah, Shade, and about the Shade, she's like off the grid, she disappears once and while with a record and never seen anything about her. - That's the dream. - Not in the news, no, that's the chapter. - That's the fucking dream. - You only know when she's coming on tour, that's it. Or drops her record. - You know who knows when she's moving is the fucking people who care. And it's not the rest of the people. It's only the people who love her and love her music and they want to know what she's doing. Yeah, I kind of dream about that life as an artist. I'll get there eventually. It just be the people that give a shit and all these other talking heads that you do interviews with and then that echo chamber on the internet. I dream about that going away and it just being distilled down to like, who actually cares? Like, okay, if you care, show up. That's cool. - This might be ending right here. I don't want to end, man. It's four hours and 40 minutes. - What? - Yeah. - Yo, we talked too much. - I don't know, no, this is so. - I'm winning. - This is like everything I would hope for and thought what happened but wasn't sure what was gonna happen today. Like, what time would we be? We've been preparing about this, talking about this for a long time. - That was. - And sending notes and voice signals about what we're gonna talk about and everything. And we fucking, I think for the listeners, if you're a Haley Fander, a Paramount friend, this is fucking, this is epic, dude. - Hi, also. - I really appreciate you. - Hi, if they're listening, hey. - I really appreciate you today. It's been amazing, man. - Dude, I love you. - I feel like I love you even more now knowing more and more about you. - I love you so much. - I love your family. Being in this house is so crazy. I feel like. - Do you feel different going up to the house? - Totally. - How many years have since you've been here? - Probably 2013 or 2014 was the last time I was here. Probably 2014. - So it was pulling up to it this like. - Oh yeah, and it looks so good. You guys have made it look so pretty and feel, it just feels cozy. I like really always loved coming upstairs when I lived downstairs. I loved coming up here 'cause also Moon's got such cool taste. - Yeah. - It's just like. - Different energy up here and life is up here. - Yeah, I loved coming up here. I loved when you guys would do little parties and get together. And it's like, like I said, it's just nice to reconnect with a part of my life. That was so important. But do it from this vantage point as more of an adult. - Yeah. - You know, I love being able to have a friendship with you that has nothing to do with what relationship I'm in. But it's just friendship. - It means so much to me. Just talking to you all the time and texting with you and catching up with you. And just, I feel like a proud dad. - I feel that energy from you. - I really do. - Okay, motion now, we're in the park. - Okay. - The parkour dudes cry too. - I know, thank you for being here. I love and appreciate you. - Love you. - The power to you, everything you've done your life. And we continue to do. - Thank you. - I've been here the whole time cheering you even when we weren't talking, you know? - Thank you, I appreciate it. - Okay, bye everybody. Love you, bye bye. - Okay, I'm back in the park. As high as I can. - Hello. - Hi. Happy Blanet birthday and happy new year. - Thanks, happy 2026. - Yeah, it's a new year, new life. Do you do, do you, do you, do you guys resolutions at all now? - No, I do like words of the year. And last year it was like spontaneity and weirdly, then I ended up spontaneously making an album. And this year, this year it is, it's eroticism, but it's based on something that I read on Substack. I wish I could remember the author right now, but where she was talking about how to live, verratically could mean just to live in a way that you allow people to see you enjoy yourself and you allow people to see you being fully present in your body and like, I love that. You know, just finding your own pleasure through life and I was thinking about how I wanna feel on stage this year. And you know, we talked a little bit about how I want it to be a more selfish experience. So that's my word for the year is like erotic or eroticism and trying to find that new perspective on that word. - I love that. I think mine is moderation. - Ooh, okay, yes. - 'Cause I tend to go over the top with everything, whether it's like, I don't drink coffee, but now I drink it three times a day. I don't work out and I'm like, I train too much and I always go over the top with everything I never do in anything in moderation. It's always like to the most extreme. And I just heard about the one word thing yesterday, my summer friend posted something like, what's one word for the year? I never even thought about one word before my life that could represent something I wanna do. So yeah, I feel like, even yours is awesome in moderation. I'm really gonna try to like, just balance myself more, you know? - Yeah, I love that. I think it's always cool to like get to the end of the year and see what that word turned into for you. Like, 'cause you don't know, like I didn't know what the hell spontaneity meant last year. I just, it was the first word that came to my mind and yeah, I think it'll be cool to see how you like feel moderation in your life. It might be something completely different than you're thinking right now. - I know, it's like I'm thinking like, physical things and things, but could be meant a bunch of things. Like I just started, I told you that I started grounding and reading this my friends book right now. I wanna try to read more and try to like, slowly be off the gram and just only post of the podcast and then keep it moving to the time of Monday. And just, you know, not that there's age for Instagram, but I'm be 56 this year and it's like, I wanna start like, I don't know. I just spend grounding and reading and just max, it's like, it was really becoming hippie. I'm like, no, I'm just trying to slow down and change it up a little bit, you know? - He'll be, he'll become a hippie too when he gets a little older. It just happens. I think if you're like at all artistic or at all in tune with your body, I feel like everyone kind of goes the way of like, it's like witchy or hippie to like, I don't know, I've been drinking so much tea and making new potions for that, you know, like for my body to, and so I don't know. I'm back at it really hard. I love that. You're more of a tea than coffee person, huh? - I mean, I wish I wasn't. I always, I have like such a jealousy for people who wake up every morning and they do their like cool coffee rituals. - Yes. - It just sounds so grounding to me, but tea is grounding too. And I like that with tea, I can switch it up based on like the seasons or what part of my cycle I'm in. Like right now I'm drinking something that's just for calm and it's got like, you know, it's like got mother-wort in it and it's got. - It's amazing. - Lemon, lemon balm and chamomile and stuff. And so I just, I think anything that you can like, ritualize in your day is healthy. And I think that goes to what you're talking about, moderation too. - For sure. So not a one word thing, but two words I learned last year that never even knew what the event meant was, side quest. That was something I never heard to all the stuff you were doing. And the last time I actually saw you was, you invited me in moon. We went and saw you with Rico and Astie in LA. And I swear, we were like, we were like the oldest couple. We felt, we just was standing by the bar. And it was so fun to watch. And she was so amazing. And then you came out and rhymed. It was so cool to see that you performed with her. It was cool. - Oh man. - That was awesome. - Yeah, she's like, I really think she's destined for so much. She's so talented. She can act, she can sing. She can wrap and write. So I love such a fan of her. And she's cool. She's just cool to talk to. We want a mini, you can't really call it a hike when you're just going around the reservoir, but we went around the reservoir the last time I was out there. And just talked about being in the business and like her team, because we share some of the same team members. But anyway, I just love her. I think she's the future kind of, you know? Yeah, she's cool, because she's like, she has like fast songs, she has breakdown, she has emo songs, she has pop songs, she's so diverse. I was really impressed by that. She was singing, she was rhyming, it was really cool. - Yeah. - And then your final side quest was it a sword. It was like, you do with the Florence in the Machine and Tray from Flays, it was the talent show thing in New York, that was awesome to see you up there. I think that was the final side quest of 2025. - It was. It was like, that was, that was my last tour of before I started my, my hibernation or like my wintering. - But it was cool, I'm yeah. - It's been, go ahead. - It's been good. I really enjoy winter, you know? It's like, obviously the holidays, but then my birthday, which I'm always very like, introspective around my birthday. I don't really need like a big party or any of that. I just kind of want to think about my year behind me and the year ahead of me. - Yeah. - And kind of like, you were saying before, get off the internet and get off the phone and read more. And that's like to me, that's what Wincher's great for. 'Cause we all get to sort of hibernate and like recharge ourselves. - Yeah, you're really good at that too. And you say like, I'm off, I'm off. And we joke about it, me and you, like we'll be like, DM each other and say how we need to get off. So, she made it, but then when you go off, you really go off, but then, but then you got this, we talked about this light phone thing you have. And I'm super interested in kind of jelly about and kind of, it's almost like having a burner phone or like a flip phone. You can just like, - Yeah. - in text you can't get emails out. There's no social media. I think that's really awesome. I feel like that might be the wave in the future for people who are like sick of social media and being online so much. I don't know. Just back to the basics. - Yeah, I think so too. I'm like, I don't know about you. I'm mega ADD and never. - I always do too. - It's like, I think it's a creative strength and a problem because I don't really want to change that about myself, but I do feel like I need tools to keep me focused and the light phone's great. It's definitely not perfect. It's not easy to text on or any of that, but it just like I didn't get on my phone. I only use my iPhone now for work and just to catch up on text. It's almost like a answering machine, which you know, I have hours in the day where I'll keep it up my computer open and I get texts and then I just have my light phone for the rest of the day. - It's like a beeper or something back in the day, like a two-way page or something. - Which I love the sidekick, I love the sidekick. Oh my God, dude. - Oh my God, if they would bring it back, I would do anything for them to bring it back. - It was so cool. I might just hold my hand flipping it. I don't know. I kind of missed those days of that stuff, you know, in the Blackberry. - Yeah. - One of the side quests last year, we were gonna get diving to it more on the original podcast was with Turnstile who, you know, like I wanna talk about how you met them and how they became that friendship and then Brendan ended up, you know, directing two of the Paramore videos, Thicsco, and this is why. And so just that friendship, I know that the Mafia and just hanging out during the Trapped Under Ice days, you know? - Yeah, I met them when they were, I mean, they're still in Trapped Under ice, but I was so sad to miss that LA show, but I really, I remember meeting Justice and being like scared of them at first. (laughs) And I also remember Sam Trapped and hanging out a lot around the house. And I took my mom to an Angel Dust show in Nashville, not that long ago. - It's cool. - My mom's so cute. - She's the bastard. - She's the best. And we got there and like after the show, I went back to say hey to the guys and my mom, I introduced my mom and he was like, oh yeah, I already met you and I was like, where did he meet my mom? And he's like, yeah, we played Mafia together, which I think would have been in like, I don't know when they made Big Kiske Knight with Chad. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's 2010, '11, I don't know. So that's all I've been knowing those guys. And I'm such a fan of the way they move through the world. And I admire it. And obviously they're great writers and musicians and performers, but it's been really cool to watch, Brendan kind of like expand his territory and show all these sides that, you know, his artistry and obviously Paramore got to benefit from that with his directing. And he's got such a great team too. We loved working with them. And I still think about those videos and how meaningful. And like there's so much meaning woven into them that I didn't understand until years later. So I'm really thankful for them. I love them. - Yeah, then you won the bird song, right? - No, I was on scene stars. - Oh, scene stars, I came out of my bed. - Okay, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, the behinds were on that. And I still have not met Dev, but I love there. I love he and Brendan's musical friendship. It's really kind of cool to see what they do together. - Yeah, it's cool. It's like trapped under ice, angel with us, and then it was diamond life. And then turn stuff like that. Whole bautomore crew, it's just so creative. And then like all kids who grew up together and they like, they jump in each other's bands and they play with each other and Brendan still playing shows or trapped under ice. And between turn style, it's a cool, I don't know, it's just beautiful. I think just coming out of bautomore too in that scene, DC always get a lot of praise, but bautomore, you really put it on the map. It's cool. - Yeah, I hear about bautomore every other week from an artist. Oh, I'm from bautomore. Oh, I'm from Maryland. - Oh, really? - There's definitely something in the water. I watched this incredible movie about Billy Holiday and I didn't realize she was from there. And yeah, it's just rich with history, man. I love that. - So we got the Grammys coming up and you know, you guys have some nominations or Grammy Nas, I guess I thought they'd call it. Like Bethel Turner, about the best rock song for Glam, best rock performance, Marzo Pan, I always say that name wrong, sorry. Bethel Turner music performance parachute. (laughs) Is that overwhelming? Like to end the year with all these things? And there's so many. Like since we did the podcast, originally there's so many things popping up always in the field. Like it's, you know, it's maybe your first top 15 in the Billboard 200, right? That's a solo project, right? - Yeah, yeah. - Just how these things, it's a lot, man. - It is really overwhelming 'cause when I made these songs, I was in like a really insular phase of my life where I kind of enjoyed feeling like wrapped up in a cocoon and safe and I was going through a lot and my heart just kind of needed to be, needed to be like quieted down. And then I think making the record did give me some courage. And that's why I was able to start saying yes and showing up at friend shows and being more like outside. - Coming out more, yeah. - But the Grammy thing is crazy because obviously Paramore is one, Grammy's before, but I just, I never in my life, in my whole career, expected that I would get nominated by myself. And I think it kind of is the antithesis of everything I grew up standing for. But now that I'm experiencing it, I'm realizing like what a group effort it was to get those nominations and how proud I feel of post-Atlantic and my really immediate team. So I mean, I think like, obviously it's like you go and you hope to win, but you also are like, it's just such a wild experience. I haven't been in like 15 years. I've stopped going after a while. So this year we're gonna go and, I don't know, I'm gonna try to get my little look on and be with my friends. There's so much like good punk music that's nominated this year. I'm obviously term style, I'm on the sniffers. And so many bands that I think really deserve the recognition for years and years of hard work. And I think that's what's keeping me excited about it and less overwhelmed is like, this is like a celebration for that subculture as much as it's a celebration for me and my team, sorry. And I think, yeah, I think if I keep that, the central focus, it helps me not feel so nervous about it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's cool 'cause it's like, yeah, it's with all your friends, it's like a kind of celebration of all the music you made and it's no competition. It's thereby supporting each other in this community. It's beautiful. Yeah, I'm excited for you. It just seems like the last couple of months of the year, there's been like with the AP cover artist and the interview to the AP and then Amy Polar podcast. I thought was awesome and doing the breath work and all that. And I didn't even know that you were singing coach, like a portrait of you tattooed on or something, it was crazy. - Yeah, he's so cool. The dog has really helped me a lot. - So sweet. - I love him. - Yeah, this is like Almond the Year's. I'm gonna have all this stuff run down. I know you hate hearing about yourself, but like just the US charts and you know, a pace magazine, Karrang, NME, Stereo Gum, New York. It's so many things, Rolling Stone, number nine, Top albums of the year, 17 Top Songs of the Year. And you know that number one is selling independent record and then the staff pick was like a Paris shoes and billboard and the Rolling Stone. You know the guy who's the 31st number one best rock bands of all time at Rolling Stone, did you know that? - Oh my God. - You know what, that's breaking the ice. - You know what, the time I was breaking the ice. - Yeah, I came out this year, yeah. - Well, I got off of socials and stuff like, I think right after I saw you, so definitely like around the Rico show too. And I haven't seen anything. So I guess screenshot sometimes from the team, but like it's kind of, it's kind of amazing to not really see that stuff. - Totally. - 'Cause I do think that stuff kind of twists your mind a little bit. - Yeah, it's just like you're trying to like, get off the ground, settle down for the holidays, you're done with all the press and then stuff still coming, it's still being recycled and talked about and just so much with online stuff. And then also you drop the showbiz songs "The Change of Men of the Park As" that's a great song. - Oh, great. - That's like the final song for the record you released. - Yeah. - And then also, I mean, I gotta, you know, we've been doing these notes and talking for weeks and months about this, Pa, we're being so like, I don't know, I'm just, this is a lot we discussed and to get everything right and to fix things, but the one thing I messed up on and you was so sweet about trying to explain it to me on the original podcast, I'm gonna, I did more research after is it, The song "The Bad Touch" by Bloodhound Gang is not called Discovery Channel and you changed it up to be like more of like an emotional survival, you changed lyrics up so it's not all their lyrics. You just took that name in the chorus and you was so sweet about trying to explain it to me in the bottom that after I did, I was like, "Oh my God, I'm such a mourn. The song is not called Discovery Channel by Bloodhound Gang." But you did such a great job and I know the listeners can be stoked how you broke that down, but yeah, I want to apologize for that. That was really silly. That's my personal notes. Oh, whatever. It's too much to keep up. It's like, I, oh man, interviews, I can't imagine how many times I've been like on a live interview and said something completely wrong. It's like, you just have to let it go. You'll let it live out there. I know. Sometimes people can just take that and just whatever. But then also just really, I think that song had just maybe come out too as a good old days. It came out around the time we did this too and I really hadn't dived into those lyrics yet. There's some powerful bars in that one as well. You're very, like you do, hybrid it. You're a very personal person. You're a very emotional person. They're very real and sincere person. You do, at the same time, where you're hard to just leave. People, we can talk about this too. There's only barely percentage, not even percent of what people who they really are on social media. Let alone when they write on lyrics and then people connect to your lyrics and vibe and they try to dissect everything is this about him? It's about that person. But for you, it's such therapy for you. You speak about so much personal things in your own way artistically. I think it's beautiful. And also for you, it's like, you may not see it. Once you write some shit and you put it out there, it's for anybody else to take it and make it their own. Whether you wrote about one thing, it could mean something to somebody else. And I just feel like you're so good at just getting stuff off your chest in a way that's, I don't know, it can be taken a whole bunch of different ways. I'm saying it could be digested different ways from the consumers and your fans. Thank you. That means a lot. Yeah, I mean writing, writing in a confessional way has always been how I move through my own emotions and process stuff. Oftentimes, my feelings, I'm not sure, I think you'll maybe relate to this. I don't know because you were your heart on your sleeve too. But I think sometimes my feelings get trapped in my body and writing where I can see them like on paper in front of me. It's like if you say something awful to yourself and your head a million times, if you were to write it down or say it out loud, you could hear how silly it is and how untrue. Writing does that for me. Writing makes me feel, I'm not a Dan who I made the record with. He was talking about, yeah, about how I can't remember. Dan is so much smarter than I am and I really appreciate it when we're working together. But it's either played a play-toe quote or a Socrates quote where he talks about writers. It's like you have the ability to write, but you lose the ability to remember. So I think what's interesting for me being this far out from the record now is I think that writers do it for a living, especially songwriters that write the way that I tend to. We do kind of forget what the reality was and we have this version in our heads that that we're trying to work out and we're feeling feelings around and feelings aren't always facts, right? So I appreciate that about my writing that I have to know that even when it's personal, it's not always objective truth. And that's where online discourse can get sticky because online discourse doesn't make space for a lot of metaphors and nuance and all that. It's true. People just take one thing and they run with their thing. This is what it means and they try to dissect it and that's all good for everybody and listeners and the fans who want to see what you're thinking or what's on your mind or what you're going through or what they think they know and all that stuff and it's probably been like that forever with artists but just before social media. You know what I'm saying before those of these people can just talk about it. But some of the quotes are like we said it's important to say embarrassing, we dig to this shit so I can just get that poison out. Yeah, exactly. That's a really great quote from you. Another one is unfortunately I was always right devastating shit. But I think you have a lot of like there's so many songs that where Paramahead 2 is different but like more uplifting, dancing songs with some of those songs is still lyrics in there that aren't happy and loving and dancing as well. Like there's always like yeah yeah you've always been like that. And do you usually write do you write lyrics or topics? What songs you want to write about subjects before you hear the music or you do it when you hear the music? Sometimes I'll have like a line or a thought and I'll write it down in my notebook. I've been really working on writing stuff down instead of typing it in my notes because I'm such a note like a notes app person. But without my iPhone I can't really do that. So so now I kind of am learning a new system again but yeah I'll run through like for instance when Dan and I have written together there's been times that I bring him music but but when he has music a lot of the time my favorite thing to do go back through my notes and be like oh I wanted to write something about that or oh this makes me think this music makes me think of that feeling and I'll expand you know I'll extrapolate on that and um yeah I it's a good exercise it's like and speaking of like writing you know sad lyrics to boppy stuff where you move a lot. Yeah I think like you're a really physical frontman and you move so much and I don't think that we especially when we were much younger performers I don't think you realize how beneficial it is for you to express your emotions while moving your body. Interesting. Because of the thing where emotions can get trapped in the body and I think movement and keeping your body sort of open and and loose can help to just shake that stuff out and wow yeah and I think after laughter is when I really learned that about myself is that I need to be able to dance I also need to learn to be a little gentler on my body but like moving and talking about hard things when I when I do vocal warm-ups with Dan with Dan when I do vocal warm-ups with Doug um we move a lot and it helps me sometimes if I'm if I'm kind of not getting something or if my voice is straining in one area of my like one register of my voice movement um will help me kind of get to it which is so fascinating. Yeah so try to think about that that we I mean we move so much and we're singing and we're like so you're singing and you're jumping and you're moving every part of your body like yeah you've always went off on stage you know performing running back and forth I mean like I mean hardcore style for sure you know and even and later on like you know you're like now you're dancing more and you're like actually doing moves and um just like when you first came out on those tours and stuff and just the intensity and right what what were some inspirations for being on stage and having a mic and running around not just standing there with a microphone stand it's because you had so much energy and you just wanted to get it out anyway so it wasn't like yeah for sure I mean most of the shows I was going to the teenager were like bands where it was heavy you know and and people's bodies were communicating just as much as anything else in the room so I think like the first time I saw this band the chariot um they have this lead singer named Josh who was in another band kind of more like metal chords um and they were kind of in the solid state tooth and nail world so for me growing up in the church it was like you know okay cool I can listen to my mom isn't scared for me to go to this show because she thinks it's like Christian for sure and it's totally it's totally not but it was like a part of the subculture that we that we had access to and Josh and in that band the chariot were so violent on stage with their own bodies and it looked it just looked like it was so good yeah yeah it was it was so freeing to me and so him and Aaron Weiss from you without you who you know is my favorite band um they were like my guiding lights in the very beginning because I just wanted to be cool like them I wanted to be cool I love it and then and then more of ladies more like you you're more dancing like you're really getting your groove and really like do you have any like yeah I mean dance inspirations growing up I mean because I mean you really started dancing more more later on in power more than just running around and jumping and singing you're not like maybe when the song's like a different vibe right for energy too but I don't know it's cool yeah Tina Turner uh Tommy from Radiohead does this like thing where I mean he kind of looks like he's just jerking his body like from side to side like for sure his neck is going every which way and I really want to be the kind of I think person but also the kind of singer who can like really stay in my like kind of stay in my space and feel like I'm really taking up space just as I am without moving around like that and I think there's there's room to to explore that this year on the road find a new way but I do think that when I'm on stage my body is like the happiest or the freest so that energy has to go somewhere so I often find myself doing this like frenetic kind of movement and it's just I don't mean like some of my favorite some of my favorite singers performers are like that and he pop is like that like David David burn David burn is totally like that like it has to come out of you Karen oh like I love that and I also really love dancing like I'm really into northern soul dancing right now and I'm not good at it yet but I love soul music so I've discovered this this kind of I guess I don't know it's like it's it's called northern soul and I guess people could look it up and get a better explainer than I can never heard of that actually before I'm looking at it. Oh it's it's great Joe from the band idols was telling me that like the way that those records got from Detroit and like essentially Motown era okay those al those those vinyls got to the north of England by ship which I mean it's such a cool story but I don't want to botch it so I'll leave it there but like but like these these people working in these like industrial towns like they they also needed a way to cut loose and I think a lot of them gave their gave those records to their kids and like that movement became a real thing and and there's there's young people in England that that are kind of giving it a new life and so I met up with them when we were in England last year and we danced and that's where we shot the parachute video oh yeah it's awesome really really fun I love it I love dancing in such a amazing expression an amazing way to I don't know man just be free you know it's so freeing and I know she's saying we don't we don't get together and dance enough anymore yeah it's trying to bring that back in 2026 more more dance going to clubs going to some raves not miskidding but just dancing in general but I want to get to Dave but Dave verna too because obviously guys are friends and yeah you have twitch show and Netflix you get that you're part of with him and I think you mentioned he was kind of an inspiration to even making the record you know I think him to make him a fan of anything or something both them inspiration yeah when I first got out to LA which I got out there in November of last year of a 20 no November of 2024 yeah and I was kind of feeling a little lost like I don't know what I'm gonna do next and both of them really like just sent me encouraging messages David like invited me to come sing on his record and and then obviously to write for the twits and that was like my first time getting invited to write an incredible song so I I took it really seriously and I'm so grateful that it was for an animated movie because I love animation yeah I love I love that team Phil and Daisy who were on that movie um they also did zootopia you know it's incredible incredible style of animation and also like great moral to the story which I'm a sucker for I always love a meaning like I want to find a meaning and everything so yeah I'm really really proud of it awesome and you went obviously did you you're all family watch it too oh yeah we watched it when it came out I like everybody well everybody had seen a link that I sent we all got together and we watched like a rough cut of it um for when I was writing and like friends came over and we saw that and then obviously when it came out for real I had more friends come over and we cooked a meal and we watched it and like some of us cried like it's it's a really sweet story and I really I really loved the the character Bisha she's the the orphan the oldest girl at the orphanage and she um she just has she wants to take care of everybody and there was something that I related to in that and I tried to write a song kind of or I kind of tried to write the lyrics to our song with her in mind yeah that's cool yes so first time we actually writing something around uh animated series that's cool it's something brand new for you yeah thank you and then we know some of your fashion in this bill and we you know we talked about a little bit on the pop but um because you're not you know it's like the person that goes out and spends like crazy money on like fancy shoes or like name brand stuff like you've always had the the throwback vintage hardcore shirt kind of put it together where you want to put together and always works for you like you have so many different so many different like chapters of you your hair colors your haircuts everything um um what is some of your spout your fashion in spout oh man um fashion is I think my my lack of like wanting to be super like dripped out has probably kept me from a lot of yeah it's probably kept me from a lot of cool fashion jobs that I that I could have done throughout the years but it's just not it's it's like not my it's definitely not my priority it's not my focus as an artist but I do enjoy fashion and like I you know I love every time Erica bought you steps out I just I'm so inspired to your whack I'm so yeah and and that kind of like speaks to the same part of me that grew up like seeing missy Elliott on the cv and being like okay where does missy Elliott come from because I want to go there so I want to be be there because then you can express yourself you know and she's incredible and I think I do think I'm in a transition period in my own like trying to figure out who I am outside of paramour and not being not be beholden to it like I am a 37 year old woman and I do like it at times I do like to feel grown and sexy or more feminine and then some days more mask and I I recently met the husband of my publicist and he dresses men you know he mostly does tailoring and stuff but I really loved talking to him about fashion so he sent me some things to try and it felt like me even though some of it was a bit nicer and some of it was you know it was like an investment for a couple of pairs like a boot like a boot that I really liked and because like you know I'm sure I need all the help I can get but um but like I think that's an as an ever evolving part of me and where I'm at right now um is interesting because I'm getting ready to like go go to the Grammys for the first time as an adult woman and I'm getting ready to go on tour for the first time as a solo artist so I'm excited to play with it and find out like how my the balance of of mask and fem energy come into that and like you know that more DIY style coupled with like I don't know something that I do love that like an independent designer made or you know it's it's it's going to be a journey I think the rest of my life same with my hair um yeah and I'm getting ready to do my hair again with Brian because we're in a phase with GDY where we're trying to we're kind of trying to open up our world again the way we did when we rebranded like back and I want to say that was 2018 yeah and um and it's going to include natural colors and just we want everyone to be able to get involved if they want to take care of their hair and try a new look so that we have to include people who don't necessarily want to have you know bright riot colored hair and um and so I'm excited to play with my hair again with Brian and let him test stuff on me and um thank god I still have a healthy head of hair and that's just because he's so good at his job and has taught me how to take care of it but yeah it's just it's just really important I think for anyone but especially artists to like keep trying to express ourselves the ways that we can and also like it's really important I think to be weird and to dress different and to look unique instead of everybody looking like they bought their clothes from the same thing on Instagram you know we don't need that world we know world is like more diverse yeah you've always had your own style and mixing up different things like I can't imagine I don't know what do you know the most you ever spent on any clothes you ever give a treat so it's something like really expensive like I just bought yeah I just bought a pair of boots by Kate And I really, I also love, and they're so comfortable. Like that's cool. Like you get like, I think what I can appreciate most about like some of these more high fashion pieces is that there are, you know, they're like they're, they're handmade or they're designed by someone that like really it's a craft. And it's, and it's unique maybe or, or there's something about it that like has their mark on it. And so that's kind of fun. Those were kind of expensive. And then like, you know, I also have dropped a healthy amount on like a vintage talking head shirt or vintage. Yeah, sure. So we would match those can get really crazy. But sometimes sometimes you just got to have it in your collection, you know? Yeah, I've been, I look at stuff online too, like the vintage stuff, stuff from Japan, there's like so many different websites, which real what isn't. And yeah, it's nice to have like a classic shirt of a band you loved or I used to have it. I'm trying to get it back and wish I never sold it. Do you know what I mean? There's so many. I mean, you got to get that inside out shirt, which is sick. Oh, yeah, I'll never, eventually when it starts to become like threadbare, I'll just frame it. I'm going to frame my runaways to your shirt too, because it's falling apart. It's like, it just now just looks like art and I think it's so cool. What about like some, I know like, you know, you're definitely a fan of bikini kill and Kathleen Hannah. I sorry, I did the podcast where like obviously like the right girl stuff was an influence as you as well back then. Yeah, I really got my education on that whole movement and that second wave feminism. Yeah. When misery business came out and I started to really unpack why I wrote lyrics that were, I mean, really a misogynistic and the scene that we grew up in, I mean, even back then there were articles about how this is like, this is like a kind of music where boys are whining about their girlfriends and they're talking shit about their girlfriends publicly and very like, confessionally, honestly. So, you know, that's like the world that, that like we grew up idolizing these, some of these bands and it felt very, it felt very normal to take a page out of my diary after a bad day and like put it to a song. But yeah. But the best gift that came from it wasn't the success of misery business. It was the lessons that I learned about like, untangling myself from that like internalized misogyny and understanding that just because I was kind of living in a world at the time where I wasn't around a lot of women or girls my own age, that didn't mean that I didn't fit in. I mean that I didn't belong or that I couldn't have those relationships, you know. And it took me a little bit to rebuild my like, to just to understand why we're conditioned as young girls to hate our own femininity and each other's femininity and kind of tear each other apart mean girl style, you know. But Kathleen Hannah was a great teacher indirectly like through her lyrics and how she celebrated other women and and and also like how fierce she was to my I obviously am and there's like a magnet for me to people who have moved through the world with an intensity like that, especially on stage. And yeah, meeting her last year, that was like the first thing I did last year. I remember that. Yes. I was so nervous to meet her and it was she was so warm and like I just felt like I could have sat with her for days and learned so much about even just about my own self and my own experience, you know. So I'm really I'm grateful for that education and it makes me more excited to know younger people, younger women or if I'm presenting like artists who need someone to wrap their arms around them, you know, and say like we belong. Absolutely. Legend like punk spoke out about everything back there when nobody's really talking about things. Kathy and Hannah like just like fearless, you know what I mean? Like, and then all the bands that came from all the other bands that my wife brought me to back then besides the bikini kill was like Pratt and will be on L7, all these other groups. Yeah. My wife got me into back then and taking me all those shows and. Yeah, what was the band that Jen Johnson was in with with Oh gosh, I can't remember her name right. F minus F minus F minus. Yeah, you have an arrow. Yeah, from Kitchermouth. Eric the Kitchermouth. Yeah, you have a F minus shirt. I can't find it now. Yeah, F minus was a gray band. Yeah, I shout out to Jen Erica. That was a great we they tore us a bunch of times. Everyone had a tap. Yeah, it was another good one. And the Luna chicks as well and go from New York. Yeah. What are you most excited about or stressed about for this upcoming tour? All men. So I've I've already started practicing. I started in November doing like my own solo mission. Relearning the songs on piano or relearning the songs on guitar. I'm buying a drum machine and I'm going to I saw Erica but do do this performance on New York Times and she started it like by like tapping on this drum machine and I was like, well, okay, but I'm going to try that. I want to learn. I think I feel really hungry to learn from people and I feel a bit braver to be back. I'm not at things at first. Of course. As a kid, I hated being bad at something like tennis. I would just quit it. Yeah, well, if I didn't pick it up fast and I am not, you know, like I'm not a trained pianist or the kind of guitar player who knows every chord that I'm playing. Like I really just do everything by ear, but I'm excited to learn from the people that I play with on stage and I'm excited to like make it feel communal. Like with Paramore, I know we talked about this a little bit because we were talking about the eras tour and what those performances felt like, but everything is so projected outward as far as you can can make it go because you want to reach everybody and you want everybody to feel impacted by that energy. And when I think about this show, which we haven't fully planned, I have like a set list in mind and I think I know who I'm going to work with just to do some little production elements here and there, but like when I think about it really what I'm imagining is people getting to just come experience a group of musicians playing together and enjoying it. Yes. And that goes back to the word erotic and letting people see you just completely present to yourself. Like I don't really want to think about it as a performance. I want to think about it the same way you go see a jazz band and you get to watch their energies like tangle up together and I'm nervous about it because none of that is anything like how I would describe a Paramore show. Obviously like that's the group of musicians playing together. But it's so it's so like entertainment focused. And I think I just I'm ready to settle into myself as a musician again. And yeah, so I'm like practicing and I got to get a little bit more serious about it because now that like the holidays are over and just you know people are back to work. I want to like make myself a like a school schedule so that I can like really feel confident by the time I get in the room with the other players and yeah. And then we can well obviously we'll put on a show. But I think I'm really excited for it to be a show that's for us, for me, for the feeling between everybody that's on the stage. And when I see bands like when I when I see a great band, I'm usually it's usually not like oh the show felt so big or the production. It's like I'm interested in what's happening between the people and what they're playing. And I want to feel like I'm witnessing something that I maybe shouldn't like a private moment. I saw Radio. I asked choke on my own state. I saw Radiohead back in 2017. They had put out an album called "A Moonshaped Pool." And watching them was my first experience of them live. But watching them I felt like I was like watching a secret and they were letting us see it. That's cool. And these are people who yeah as intimate and I mean they were playing in a arena and I couldn't get over the fact that it felt like we could have been in any size room. I was just getting to witness something that was special between them. And every non-then Tom the singer would address the crowd but it really wasn't about that. It wasn't like you know are you entertained kind of vibes. And so I mean long winded the answer but that's kind of what I'm searching for. I love that. It's a whole new band right? Maybe. Okay. Maybe okay. And you're going to play me. You're going to pick a tar. You're going to play a bunch of different instruments too. Try to. Yeah man I got a lot to get comfortable with because you know it's interesting like being a singer on stage and you carry your mic around and you carry your confidence around. We got it easy. It's easy. Yeah there's like there's like there's a I don't know in a way. way you can start to feel disconnected from everybody else on stage. And that's why there were certain songs we'd play that I would be like, I want to play a coup stick on this with you guys. Yeah. Yeah. So I did that a little on the last Paramore touring cycle, but I just, I think learning how I've never stood behind a mic with an electric guitar and like really just gotten to be present and feel that and not thrash my neck around the whole entire time. You know, so yeah, it'll, it'll, it'll be good exploration for me and I hope that like whoever's in the audience is like, maybe they'll give me a little bit of grace because this is kind of like, I don't know, man, this feels like a really important, maybe one of the most important tours for me, this first one coming up because I'm reintroducing myself to myself. You are. Yeah, and it's like, nobody knows what the band is, nobody knows what it's going to be like, they know they love the album and it's crazy because it sold out so fast. It's like over 80,000 people in the queue at one point. Did you sell that on hillywames.net? The site crash? It was at like on a regular site when those tickets went on sale. No, I wanted, I wanted to and we used a new program open stage. Like we're really trying to come back, come back these freaking, what do you call them? Oh my god. Yeah, I saw you talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Try to block them out of my mind. Totally. I still, it's still not a perfect system. I do think the way the future is artists trying to own more of their data and like, and you know, I saw one of my favorite comedians, Caleb here on just posted on some stack about how he thought he thinks the venues needed quit taking a percentage. They, you know, unless they want to give the act a percentage of like the bar or something. And I thought that was interesting. And I think there's going to be more conversations like that in the years to come because we're working against a giant capitalist machine that's essentially like taking the humanity away from that. That experience of like just simply buying tickets to, it's already expensive enough and then you add the stress. So anyway, we did what we could this time and I'll continue to like try to figure out new ways. Also, also the merge percentages from clubs got to go. I mean, we just did without this whole year, just like how the other club just takes so much of your merch money. Just makes no sense, man. Yeah. It's so crazy, man. Yeah, especially when they're live nationals. Yes. It's one thing of your independent. I do, I want those venues to stay in business and I'm happy to be a partner for that. But yeah, I'm like hopeful to see where that conversation goes. And if there's enough powerful artists and people that work in that industry that are willing to try something different, which usually suits aren't. I think we can see some kind of change even if it's incremental, like little stuff. Absolutely. And water from your eyes and snuggled the two bands and groups and you never heard neither of those bands with you from you picked them, obviously. Yeah. So water from your eyes are from Brooklyn. Oh, wow. It's cool. I just kind of found them through. So Joe, who plays percussion for Paramore on the road, like back in the spring 2024, or no, no, I'm sorry, back in the spring last year, he sent me an album by Nate who's in water from your eyes. And he has this other project called This is Lorel I and I fell in love with it. I thought it was so good. And I think he's really talented. But then I found out he was in water from your eyes and that music is like totally different. That's cool. And Rachel, who sings in the band, they are like, like to me, one of the coolest, like most, I don't know, like it just feels very. I got to check them out. Feels very New York. And I'm excited for them to sort of be the, they're going to be filling up the room with like a certain vibe before we come out. And I think that it's, I just feel it's except. It feels really exciting. And Snuggle, I love both the bandings, by the way. I love the song. Snuggle is so good. They're actually from Copenhagen. Oh, I'm very into a lot of Scandinavian artists. And I think they're such a nice, there's like a real feeling to those artists that you can like, you get it right off the bat. I'll send you my playlist that I make for Amy Kohler. But it's just good feelings. And I think too, you can hear how like a younger generation of artists are getting into certain bands that like, probably like you grew up on and I certainly grew up on. And they're taking that and making it something completely new. And so yeah, I'm pumped about Snuggle. Well, we'll have a couple of little extra guests that will pop, that'll like pop up to do like maybe first of three in a couple of shows that I'm excited about. That various B is an artist from I don't think they're from London, but I know they're based in London. And I'm, you know, really excited about that as well. That's awesome. And then a dollar from every ticket goes to the Ally Coalition. I work with my team to Q and the Youth Crossed Country. That's awesome. Yeah. So really amazing doing that. Man, it's like, it's necessary, you know. I think like watching Billy and Billy's mom Maggie with support and feed and how they've kind of made it a point to highlight issues with every tour. You know, it's now really, it's very standard to have a tour partner that is like an organization that is there to educate and like let people pitch in. No, I love that. Yeah, the support and feed have like a freeing can, can not goods to all the shows and all the tables they have set up. It's so cool. It's trying to educate people on food and the earth and yeah, global warming, all that stuff. It's so good. I love that. It's so good. I mean, that's how I became vegetarians because at the punk rock shows, they had like the PETA pamphlets and the slaughterhouse videos at the merch booth. And that's how for me in the 80s, that's how I got HIP2 was going on the world with animals and stuff. So I love that. That's amazing. And back then, it's like you're making like a pretty big sacrifice because back then, I mean, even when we started touring, there wasn't a lot of options. How not? I ate like, cheeseless pizza most nights. It's crazy. It was terrible. I mean, Taco Bell, whatever subway, like no just vegetables on it, all that stuff. Oh yeah. The veggie stuff. Oh yeah. The veggie stuff. We'll try and make it happen, but you're playing Baltimore April 14th, and it'll be so sick to somehow steal you and bring you to the DC Discord house. I mean, Ian on that day, I'm really going to try and make it happen. I'm going to try and make it happen. I know it's far away. It's like months away, but it'd be, if it's such a perfect day, like just take you for like an hour or two, go meet them, I think it'd be, I think you really be stoked. You know, we talked about it. I would love it. I already told Leah, like, hey, we didn't had DC on this tour. So we need to try and do it either, you know, whatever the next run is, like I want to make sure to get there because I have, um, my sister lives not in DC, but not too far. She, she had, uh, twin boys. Oh, that's cool. That's right. Yeah. So it's funny, like, like getting older on the road, like you start to plan certain things around friends, you know, and city and family. Yeah. It's so cool. I love that too. It's about getting lunch with somebody or catching up during the day or they don't even have to come to the show. I just want to get their time and hang out with them. It's like, it's hard to invite friends like that to catch up at a show, you know what I mean? Like, you know, trying to warm up and show, um, I got a couple random things. Um, step, step curry, man, I just found out how much of a fan he was. I didn't realize you guys played his birthday in 2018. And he just said he had like a 49 point game recently, um, and that the post game conference dude, like, who were you tonight? I was really. He was so crazy. And then he can up his things with you. I saw it. It was so I love that when those worlds like that, just random, professional basketball player, like, loves your band. I don't know. So cool. I don't know. There's a lot of sports news that like paramour. I don't know where I don't know where or when that happened, but like, it's pretty funny. I mean, Steph, when he came on stage with us, I had a double lung infection. I just kind of promised him and I, I, I, I, I wasn't contagious because I had been on two rounds of antibiotics by that point, but like, he came up and I was thinking I might have to sing with him, like, just to help him through it. And not only did he sing, but he sang it in my register, like, hi. I was like, holy shit. He's got no thought. I didn't even have to do anything for the rest of the song. Dude, he fucking owned it. He killed it. I couldn't believe it. Yeah. But that's one of the coolest thing I've seen. I think it was somebody from a different world coming into this world. It's like, also, I see like little oozie vert talking about how much he loves you in paramour, which I think is awesome. That'd be a sick call. Oh, man. It, it like really does make me happy when people from like a different genre. Yeah. Yeah. You got so much love from the hip hop world. or we know that, that's a fact. - It makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside. - It's just co-sying in that. And then also I just recently learned that there's another Hilly Williams who's like a Swedish songwriter or something or a producer 'cause I hit you up about this mixtape. And I'm like, did you see this? You're like, what is this? I mean, I guess we can talk about, I mean, there's a mixtape about that the game, the rapper put out. And the mixtape is not for the listeners, it's not a record. They sample all kinds of things and they put it out. It's not for sale. It's just like them rhyming over different things. But I sent it to Haley and said to his screenshot. And it's a song called "Liven" and they sample it. And it fun course and it sounds pretty sick after I gave it a couple of listens. But when I sent it to you like, this is not me. Is this why I just say my name? But then you're like, does this Swedish songwriter or something like that? That's crazy. - Yeah, yeah. - Did you ever meet that person in Sweden before or no? - No, no, no. I maybe I can invite them to the whatever show we play over there. - That'd be amazing. But yeah, I don't want to get the game in trouble or get you mad at sent it to you like, what, so hopefully we cause any problems. - No, no, I've been. - And so this one I had to say for Moon because I didn't do it on the first part of the thing, but when we have whatever launch, you and Moon were talking, whatever, whatever. And then she kept asking me to ask you one question on the podcast, she was like, it's true. And I was like, no, chat GBT doesn't have anything but the question for Moon was, isn't it true that you weren't the original singer, Paramore? - Yeah, it's true. (laughs) It's true. I was the second singer of Paramore, which I feel like I need to put on a shirt at some point. - Yo, that'd be a six shirt. - Yeah, I was the second singer of Paramore. I joined the band after they tried writing some songs with another friend of ours from the same little school, which wasn't even a real school. That little program that we were part of was full of really artsy, weirdo kids. And thank God, 'cause I had tried going to a public school here in town before that. And my mom said I only made it six weeks. It just, I think, but you mean my Mississippi accent and the fact that I just was new and I didn't share anything in common with a lot of those kids. I needed to really quickly find my place. And yeah, so this kid Randall, who I was friends with, he was in a band with Josh and Zach that was called the Flying Lawn Chairs when I met them. And so yeah, I was sick. And somewhere I have that demo. I'm really sad I can't find the box with any of my riot era photos that I take a lot of pictures. And it has those demos. But Randall, his dad was a songwriter in town and had a studio so they would use the studio a bit. And which is crazy. To me, when I met some 11 year old, 12 year old, 13 year old kids and they're already they already know how to play together and they're recording. - Crazy dude. - This is incredible. And yeah, anyway, me and Randall used to leave a open biology book between our feet and she during tests. (laughing) We, and for the record, my mom, my mom has always been a teacher and she told me when I told her that story, she was like, you know what, I'm proud of you for knowing where to find the answer. - Wow. - Anyway, so yeah, Randall and I were homies. Even after I took his place in the band and yeah, I was the second singer of Paramore. - Crazy man. Thanks, Moon Morse for that one. - Thank you Moon. - And then we talked a little about the pod too. We wanted maybe about just growing up and growing up around in your house, the music was playing your house and kind of what kind of music we kind of exposed to at a young age in your household. - Yeah, okay, so in Mississippi, my world was really small, obviously. I went to church a lot. So for a while, like the only place that I really had access to instruments and music was the church. - Yep. - But at home, especially when I was at my dad's, I would go over to my granny and granddad's a lot. They kind of raised me because my parents were so young, so kind of finishing school and trying to start their careers and stuff. So my granddad played the piano and he wrote, like, you know, he's got a record out. You can kind of hear his style, but like he was really in the Motown, he's a big Elvis in too, but like I got him an original pressing of a four tops record for Christmas this year, because he's, as like one of his favorite groups and we would watch the Temptations movie on repeat at his house. - Great movie. - So yeah, oh my god, it's so good. So a lot of Motown, which is also kind of like, I'm reigniting that by this northern soul thing that I'm into now much more like, that's much more obscure records, but I grew up on that stuff. And then, you know, my dad kind of listened to everything. He liked melody and he liked people that sang. So, you know, I remember him showing me this group called Take Six and they were kind of like, I feel like they were kind, they were kind of, well, Brian McNeigh's brother is one of the singers and that I remember as a kid that excited me. I was like, okay, I want to hear it. And it's like six part harmonies, a lot of like scatting and because my dad was in a vocal group in college for a little while. Yeah, like he's got a weird broad sense of like music sensibility. And then my mom, you know, my mom is crazy too 'cause you know, she, one of her favorites is Black Sabbath. But like, yeah, right. But like at the same time, she kind of raised me also on like Janet Jackson. She, I'm trying to think. - She was like Boother Bandsros in the house. - Oh, yeah, for, I mean, she's probably more at Grand As, but like, but yeah, 'cause mom listened to more modern music than that. And also my mom is like, I credit her for like the fact that I actually really enjoy like old musical movies, like Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. And then like from the 90s, like the newsies. And what's that story with the one in the house? - Cool. - So mom kind of had like, she was all over the place musically too. And we, and I mean, we weren't really allowed to listen to secular music in the house because of her first, her second husband, sorry. - Gotcha. - And so we would sneak it in the car on the way to school every morning. We would listen to everything from like Dixie Chicks, which announced the Chicks. The Chicks, goodbye Earl was a big one for us. - Wow. - And Leon Rhymes first album, Blue was big. So man, like there really wasn't a genre that mom didn't cover. - Yeah, let's go. Aaron was talking about that from our underworld, about the different stuff he couldn't listen to the non-sector music and how like he got like a snoop dog a single, but he couldn't even listen to it. But he liked the cover and he knew it was rebellious. He just kept it in his pocket. - Yeah. - But he knew he couldn't listen to it if he had a choice, but he just had it because it was like kind of rebellious. But yeah, just finding out other music and different things and outside of that world, right? Wow. But I also love how open mind you are with music. I'm always like sending you new groups. I don't know what, send to Eka and then like fiddlehead. - Send me Hive in. - Hive is military gun scout. And then you put scout on your Apple list. It was so happy that was so cool of you. But you actually listen to the shit that I send. You actually listen to it. You write me back. Wow, I fuck with this. Like it's cool. You always get your ear to the street and check out new things. But the Eka one was right. - Oh yeah. - 'Cause she's really crushing right now, man. - Dude, I know. - She's so proud. Yeah, everywhere. It's so cool. - I'm trying to catch up with her. We met once in Nashville. - I remember that, yeah. - Well, maybe in LA, like when I'm there for the Grammys. Like I know, like I cannot believe this, but like post-Atlantic is co-hosting like a pre-Grammy party. - So cool. - I mean, if you had told me a year ago that I'd be even open to that. - Yeah. - But like I'm excited to invite some artists, friends and just people that have been super supportive. And I'm doing it with a couple other artists and like secretly group that I distributed my record. So yeah, I just, I think like, I always have time to listen to music because I think that the more music you discover the happier you're gonna be. - Sure. - And it's also just like you're expanding your palate. - For sure. Do you listen to older stuff too? Like Sundays, cranberry stuff like that or? - I tried to get the Sundays to come out to our last, what? - Not, not arrows, but our, our Wembley. - Oh my God, they're in amazing, dude. - And they couldn't, they weren't, they weren't close enough in town, but I'm still, I'm still gonna try, I love the Sunday. - Do you like a song with them or something? They're sick. - Oh, I would, I would die to do that. And I, I think lately, the older music that I've really been listening to is probably 'cause it's winter and I always feel like winter is really romantic. I've been listening to a lot of Nina Simone and Billy Pauley day and I think her name's Ann Peoples. Just like stuff that, that like good singers, but like not pop singers, you know, people that like, really just use their voice like an instrument. - I mean, we've been listening to a lot of Amy Winehouse again in the house that's a love her so much. - Ooh, me too. So much. Did you like you like she know Conor and whole and stuff like that? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, she needed was so more. More shanado Conor, I think. Like I was so late to, I mean, obviously my age, I was late to like grunge and stuff like that wave, but um, but yeah, of course. I mean, like those songs are like, just classic. I just all of a shit like how rebellious she was. She shaved her head. She's one of the all pretty and how she like they didn't have like hip hop as a genre on the Grammy. So she did a public community look on the side of her head and just like, yeah, she's just so punked. Like she spoke her mind for everything. She was just so rebellious and she was so talented and gifted and beautiful inside and out. Like yeah, I was just the documentary is incredible. I saw the documentary that came out. It's really awesome. You're just reminding me that I never did and I have to watch it, dude. I can't wait. It's kind of heavy. I think people like that are gifted like that. I think have a really hard time being in this world. Yeah, for sure. Especially ones and her lyrics are pretty on like same as you're like Harder and the Steve space. Yeah. And also, um, Co, we have a love of Co play. Me and you what we talk about Co play a lot as a. Yeah, man. I mean, so much man. First show I ever saw at the rhyming was rushable into the head like. Wow, really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. I'll never forget how the whole room turned yellow when they played yellow. And I was just like, dude, ascending into the sky. Wow. What do you, what are you watching right now currently? I know you said madman. We talked about what are some other stuff you're watching? Yeah. So a lot. Oh, I'm bingeing for sure. Um, we, when we, we're on the road, like growing up, I, I was not one that sat in my bunk or in the hotel rooms or anything to watch stuff. I, I, I really missed out on a lot. Um, and so I'm finally watching madman from start to finish and really loving that Tignitarro show one Mississippi is really beautiful and it's kind of based on her life and losing her mom and I, I just watched a film last night called eternity. It's an 824 like romcom and Elizabeth Olson is in it. Oh, I watch that. And um, yeah. And what's his name? I don't want to watch it. I'll check it out. I'll look out for it. Uh, yeah, it's, it's so calum turner. That's the other, that's the other actor. Um, it's so creative. It's funny and I cried a good bit, which I really need to cry more. I, I like, haven't cried much in a year. And I think that's so troubling. So I'm trying to cry more. You're trying to make yourself cry. Yeah. I need to cry. And listen to some cold. Play the, listen to some, I don't know. Yeah. Go, go, go on the cold for example, because I make you cry. Um, oh, yeah, I know a song you need to listen to. Um, it's this artist, of course, from Baltimore, because apparently everyone is, um, called nourished by time. Okay. And the song is called when the war is over and oh my god, that's, that's one of those like, make you cry. Well, does it cure make you cry? Does it cure make you cry at all? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wish, wish the album wish and the song open from, no, I'm sorry, the song high from which one of my favorite songs of all time, I got to see them play at live at Redding in like 2012. Wow. I just, yeah, Robert Smith is my Robert Smith to me in a celebrity death match against Morrissey would win every single time. I agree. I agree. Yeah. I'm just, I used to dream about him. I was so in love with him. But I think it was more just his like his, his lyrics get me and his voice gets me man. It's crazy because I'll come home. My wife will be listening to the cure and she'd be all happy. It makes me so mocks. It makes her, it makes her totally opposite. It makes her so happy. And she loves Robert. And we've seen him so many times together and um, she got, she met him a long time ago. I went, she met him. She's like, oh, so I don't speak English. She was so scared. She didn't want to say one word to him. She just wanted to see me get a photo with him, dude. That's amazing. She doesn't speak English. That was her response. Yeah. Cause she didn't want to say that she didn't want to fuck anything up. But he was so nice. I'm like, yeah, I do. Yeah. The cure is one of the greatest bands of all. And the latest record I thought was really, really good and me too. Yeah. It's nominated. It is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fuck yeah. We double check that. That's really cool. Let me fact check. And I just saw them with the, I saw them with the deft tones and that was a cool combo. Um, oh, really? Where? Uh, it was like a year, a couple of year or two ago. And I came on stage to watch deft tones and Robert was standing on the stage watching deft tones. I was like, oh, this dude is so cool. He's so cool. Yes. So they got nominated for best alternative music album. And best alternative music, music performance. Wow. Is there anybody ever met? You got star stark meeting? Um, well, or nervous. We hold on. Yes. Hold on. Hold on. I was, I actually didn't really well when I met Seth Rogen, but I, I, wow, I have loved, I mean, I, the last show that I watched in Mississippi was Freaks and Geeks. And on television. And I would wait for it to come on. And it felt like again, this was this, this was a scenario where I would sit in the living room and, you know, my little hometown Mississippi. And I would watch these, these people on TV and be like, where are those people? Because I'm trying to find that. And, um, and yeah, I didn't, I didn't try to go into how much he and Jason Segal mean to me, but Jason Segal's great to me. Yeah. But like, I, I just, I just really, I was really happy to be around funny people that night at his benefit. Like I met Tig N'Taro, that's cool. And like, it just, I, I found it interesting to be around a different kind of, like, you know, it's like, I'm using out music people all the time, but I felt so. I saw the photo. Yeah. Like, just funny people are trapped into something else. So, that's a big one for you then. Yeah. Yeah. And so again, I wasn't like, I did really well. I, I didn't need Robert Smith once, but I think I did okay. I just didn't talk very much. It's just like, when you froze up. Yeah. I kind of was stunned, but, um, yes. Well, I, I think if I were to meet Shade or like my goal at this year's Grammys is to just get two minutes with Gaga, because I think, she's so, she's smart, you know, and I, I want to, I want to like get in her brain and be like, how, how do you navigate all of this? And, and you still feel like such an artist, you know? That'd be so, that'd be so cool. I probably be, oh, oh, oh, oh, one more, one more, Beyonce. At first, first Grammy Awards, we were walking out and Brian was with me. And, um, and, uh, she tapped him on the shoulder to, like, ask if he would get my attention. And so he turned around and he saw Beyonce and he was like, he was like, girl, I must still look like I saw a ghost. And then I, I got you and you turned around and you just let your jaw drop and she was so sweet. She was saying she loves misery business. And that was what? Wow, dude. Yeah. I don't even remember if I said anything, because I was just like, you're Beyonce. That is incredible, man. Yeah, I think Shade, I bug off, I met with Shade too, because I have like a portrait of her. I love her. I kind of like, I don't know, man, I'd be, if I heard her voice in, in like the same space as my actual ears, if I heard her real, her real voice coming out of her body, I think it would just send shivers down my spine. I'm gonna put the good juju out there that you get me, Gaga, that'll be so sick, dude. Oh, thank you. I need prayer. I need prayer over that. Did you hear me, Rollins? Because then we had a poster of when you're bedroom. Oh, that's, that's a good one. I'm, you know, I'm gonna be so terrified if you take me to meet Ian, but definitely Henry, like Henry lives here now apparently. And I'm right. He does. I'm like, kind of, I want to hit him up because I want to ask him about what he's doing here. And like, if there's anything we can do together, community wise, but I'm so scared. That'd be so sick. You bump into me on a coffee shop or something. Oh my God. Yeah, if I ever leave my freaking house, when I'm home, I stay home, man. You think you, I know you do. You hybrony. I love it. Do you think you'd be nervous to meet Gaga? Oh, you're probably more excited. Yeah, I don't know. I think I would be excited. And I think it would just depend on situation. Whatever her, whatever her first words to me are, I'll be like, okay, this is either warm or this is scary. Yeah, it's gonna be the energy. You're gonna check, you're gonna feel the energy first. Yeah. I know we talked about little hip hop too. You mentioned big crit and some other rappers, our cast and stuff. But do you listen to new hip hop currently or have you been to a hip hop concert before? Honestly, no, which, which kind of surprises me, I like what kind of made me re-enter that love again, because it's always been there. I've always enjoyed, like I go through phases with it too, where it's like really helpful with my lyricism and my phrasing when I'm writing. Yeah. because I like a lot of words and I like a lot of syllables and so Buster Rhymes was like really important. I saw Juvenile's tiny desk and I thought it was so brilliant. It was great. It was so exciting that it kind of like reignited that excitement. I know you look cash on you know that stuff for sure. Yeah, yeah. I do. I love I love a lot of hip-hop but I really obviously like my heart like I have such a soft spot for Southern rap and artists from the South that are making hip-hop. Totally. But but I also like went back and just did another root steep dive recently and that was really that felt really good to listen to the root. Incredible incredible man and um yeah. I'm going to space on the singer's name. Oh my god. He's like everybody's top five. He's incredible with the freestyle's. Obviously yeah they're on the Jimmy Fallon show as the group but they're incredible. They're getting they're getting up credit you know. Yeah. Oh dude for sure are you talking about Black Thought? Yes Black Thought. Yeah yeah yeah. Incredible MC. Incredible MC. Yeah I think it's very cool that that is who Fallon brought along for that ride because it's really cool. It's cool. Also Doji. I'm really loving Doji. She's incredible. Yeah. There is this. She signed Kendrick's label. Um everything she's doing putting out. She's incredible. Yeah. For the stuff that I've seen in her lives. Incredible. I love the new new Tyler record that came out last year was incredible. Yeah. We just we just saw him in Marty Supreme and that was incredible. He killed it in there too. Yeah. I was saying the other day I can see you doing some acting sometime. I wouldn't be like I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of came natural to you. We saw you in something or you that was a chapter of your life somewhere down the line you know. Man we'll see at this point like after the year I just had I guess I'm kind of opened I'm down for whatever. When I was younger and we started the first kind of the band started kind of blowing up when we were young. I got some scripts and um and one of them was for Whip the roller skating roller derby movie that you're very more than ever. And I mean honestly there's no reason that I should have turned that down except for the fact that like I wasn't ready to step out from the band and I wasn't ready to see my I don't like seeing myself on a screen at all. So if I ever do decide to like try that and I make it to one to to a film or something I think I probably won't ever be able to watch it. Yeah. I say anything I'm not gonna go back and listen to my records or even listen to this podcast. Me both are not gonna listen to this podcast. No no no I can't. Or anything we do I hate even hearing my voice. It's kind of a weird thing. It's crazy because some I know some people go back and they like critique their records and this I just can't do it. So yeah being on the screen yeah might must be weird like going to a theater and seeing you so over the first time acting and I don't know it's kind of cool. I know I have like like I have a couple of friends that have that have done it like after they did some music and I I need to ask what is that like I mean maybe that's something I need to ask God about like is it yeah obviously she should get your questions ready man you know she kills it as she kills it acting it's incredible man yeah natural even the thing that Billy was in I forgot a year or two ago she killed it and that like the first time I acted with God it was I feel like something was singers no man I feel like I feel like it's a difference it's a different maybe down the line might try something do you do what's the last book you read do you read books a lot oh I got to tell you too I've been bending 20x again oh wow okay it's so comforting it's so comforting 20x very classic very legendary show and and people come off that show and the different actors on the show what they're doing now to the main girls and the shoes on the show sex that you can't you think it was awesome yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah that's a go to binge um do you read a line now yeah right now I'm reading um actually have it right here I'm reading bread of angels patty snets new memoir oh awesome um I I need to like get back into some fiction just for my imagination but like I think my favorite books are always nonfiction like I really enjoy reading stories about people my the first autobiographies I read were Lucille ball and Charlie Chaplin that's cool um Charlie Chaplin has like two autobiographies that like that like don't say the same thing about his life oh wow I know I think like it's really like two competing stories and I I was a huge fan um I loved like side the silent film era and and that stuff when we were making brand new wise I left my TV at our air well wasn't airbnb it was wherever we rented that we live I would leave it on this channel that would play a lot of those films and I I saw Charlie Chaplin's first talkie like the first time people heard him speak in a movie was for his film The Great Dictator which is sort of like a satire uh you know loosely based on Hitler and um and and it's it's really sad how how current it feels now um because he kind of makes it well they don't ever use Hitler's name obviously yeah but like it's he's cartoonishly mean and just kind of goofy and I think like a lot of times that you look on the news and it's like a bunch of cartoon villains all the time so it's very true I rewatched that recently but but yeah so Brett so Brett of Angels is caddy smith's new book that that kind of deals with her upbringing like uh it says post-World War II childhood oh that's great and it can dimt housing complex and she and it really kind of I really kind of explains her like poetic mind and what a what an interesting kid she was um it's awesome so I I'm loving that right now it's nice that's cool um do you cook or you post maize more my god i'm ashamed to say the last two years in my life has been so post-made it too me too if so I like when I cook for myself I feel so much better and so today I'm actually making a soup it's like a ginger miso tofu soup oh yeah I'll send you the recipe because I think you guys would like it and it's um it's especially helpful when you're like about to be on your period which you don't have to worry about but um it's very like nutrient dense and I'm gonna make a batch of it and take some to my friend Elise for she's been filling six so um yeah I'm trying to get now that it's you know I'm wintering so I'm trying to like you're hibernating yeah I'm using my little mini trampoline in the mornings I'm making tea I'm trying to be in the kitchen I'm it's good for you it's totally good for you I'm so scared to look at my receipts for post-mates for 2025 I'm so scared from my my wife's gonna tell me how much money I spent last year on post-mates man let alone my blue bottle coffee every single day on my doorstep in the morning I'm obsessed with it and it's because I don't drive so it's like maybe this stuff evens out with my post-mating and I'm ubering and I'm oh true I'm saying I'm not paying I'm not paying a car insurance so hopefully it's you will have a job that's true I forgot hey would you ever like would you ever like learn like a coffee ritual at home and like make your own for sure I just got to find like because there's so many different things with coffee like the beans and like there's so many things to know about right being a barista and all this that rusty art guitar player he he he he tried he became one for while in LA he's obsessed with coffee so he's like our guy to go to in every city country but yeah there's so many different things a different bitter and I don't know max is my max whatever he was in my son the listeners he's obsessed with different kind of coffee he's kind of coffee connoisseur as well but yeah it's like I just like coffee but I don't know if I would kind of taste I have for it but also you cook your every time I talk to you eating something that's vegan you're pretty vegan adjacent like you're not you don't claim it but you pretty much eat clean and healthy yeah yeah I try to and also I just like cooking vegan more I don't want to I don't really like handling meat is so weird and like if I ever do if I ever make something it's usually I'm I'm one of those it's like well okay I'm gonna go to my local farmers market yeah yeah yeah talk I want to understand you know but like for the most part yeah I think um I just think it's good for you I think it's good for you and it teaches you like how to be really intentional with what you put in your body absolutely all about that especially new year man what's it's it's a new freaking year um well I appreciate you so much Haley I'm sorry I've got to do the phone call into the podcast and we've been talking about this for months and for all the listeners we put a lot of time and a lot of things into this episode and I mean so much for me to give me to have this time with you and you be back in my life and all that stuff and um yeah I just really appreciate you this has been awesome um I'm trying to get my first share I love you and I like this feels like the most um I told you this before this feels like the most comprehensive uh interview about like my career thus far and you never do it yeah I'm really excited to leave it here I'm ready to do what's next and you're were like a perfect person to talk through all this stuff with because somehow it can be like emotional or triggering and like I'm still processing all of it and I just yeah thank you so much. I hope I hope fans dig it and and thanks for helping me usher in like a new season of my career. Yeah it's been great to like I said in the pod like watching you even when we last touched everything going on with you with the Paramoo stuff and your solar records before this new one and just watching and being proud of you and then having you back in my life and how much that means to me and my family and yeah it's been emotional at times talking about it and but we've it's awesome and so happy for you with this new year and the tour and the record and as you get older to realize your friends and the people you met along the way and it's just I'm just really proud of you and happy for it. I am like you're down like I'm old enough to be your pops and proud of you all this stuff you do and I feel like you've been through a lot in relationships and life and I feel like you deserve you know in my lifetime I hope I see you you know whatever it's going to be relationship or partner you deserve love and all that and so many appreciate you and everything you you're a human you know. Thank you I love you and your family and let some let's party before the Grammy's a little bit. Yeah I want to come to that party man I'll I'll put a suit on I'll dress up now bring bring moon with your max it'll be awesome and shall it to lead to post Atlantic I just got my my hilly G B shirt my G B mock up and I got my book. Yeah the merch is sick and this is yeah it's just that your team is so small it's crazy for the people in the world listening right now they probably think it's like this huge label but dude it's hailey it's the end of couple people riding them it's it's incredible like it's just your friends you know what I mean it's not like some I don't know no suits no corporate shit like you've been there yeah I can do all that in your career. Works work smarter not harder. I don't know if I asked you on the last question I don't know if I asked you on the thing but they're actually your top five you have top five bands or punk bands. Oh well I mean I know it's not like punk necessarily but tears. Tears definitely one of my top five's yeah. I mentioned failure all the time but they really they really like change the course of my life as like someone who wanted to be a musician like I learned how to play guitar and drop D tuning because of failure. That's amazing and you cover the song too yeah saying with you yeah cover their song and I hope I get to do that once on the road just like just for fun. That would be cool. So yeah those two oh my gosh so we got failure we got the cure yeah let me take the let me take a gander really quick and my take a gander. Take a little little gander in my apple music files. I know you love title fight too. Oh I really do love title fight and I get so sad this is not around. Um that that that that that that that's a good time. It's hard for you like you put them on the spot at the top five. I know I'm I'm really bad at like the even even like when someone asked me like favorite favorite album or favorite song of the year. I like like enemy polar was like what's the last song you want to hear before you die and I think I just made a joke because I was like I can't I can't think of it but it's probably open by the cure. Okay okay that's a kind of crazy question man actually I'm thinking about that now what I want to hear before I pass. Oh my god I thought about that day. Oh my god it was such a beautiful song. It was so you don't remember that was in a cure song? No it wasn't it was some random song I heard at the that's another thing I always send you clips of this almost every time I go to CVS to play like Paramore like everywhere I go you follow me to like the CVS on pico and this other one it's it's the most random stuff or maybe in target too. It's freaking crazy man. Uh well of course you're you're in your eyes in your eyes by p to Gabriel. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. In your dude come on yeah I mean I love Phil Collins too and um but I would say you got the killer we got failure what else talking heads for sure. You gotta do that. Yeah you gotta do that. I feel like I feel kind of like I I need to say what would you say? Said Fagazzi. Oh my god I do love Fagazzi. Maybe yeah yeah because yeah yeah yeah yeah it's really changed my nice. Yeah they changed my world too. I love like their drummer I mean and they're to talk about their Nick um I think they're like so innovative and then obviously Karen O her just her whole president and so the killer feeling you're talking head yeah yeah yeah is one more that's a great list. It's a great list. Thank you. Hold on. I'm going first time. First time five now. First time theory has been mentioned on the podcast ever. Really? Yeah pretty cool. Okay. Maybe like. Oh it's so interesting. Who do you listen to the most in your life you think? Yeah. This is random. Do you like the Google dolls? Dude, the resurgence of the Google. Google dolls last year was amazing. Oh amazing. I just saw that they got like Iris was like the song of the year again like on streaming or something like wow. Yeah. I'm in now. Who's pumps all that long way down. Black. Black balloon. I went and saw them perform last year. I get I just get in my zone with I don't know I love them dude and they came from punk too as well. Yeah for sure. I mean like most of the best bands do. I think. You're talking heads. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm still looking. I'm still looking. It's amazing how you can just like go blank. It's okay. You know what? No hardcore stuff. No punk stuff. No. Shade. I mean yeah. Shade is not like. I was trying to think of groups but yeah groups. Yeah. I think like by the time we get off the phone you know I'm gonna think of it. Yeah. Tones. Oh I know one. It's a sunny day real estate. Woo. That makes total sense. I love sunny day. And I liked I liked their other they had like a another band or at least two of the guys had another band called the fire theft that I was obsessed with. And when I saw a sunny day play a couple years ago in Nashville I was talking about it and I was just like I literally said to Jeremy Enoch the thing I was like your voice for me is like one people here Peter Gabriel's voice. It's like comforting and it has like this this rast to it and I love his melodies. So yeah I I would say at least for yeah for today that's my five. Yes. Stay tuned for the listens when we jump back on the pond two weeks which is like. Can I give a bonus? Yeah I do. A buzz cox. Whoa. Do I love the buzz cox man you crazy? Like. Oh my god. That could possibly want to be the first pop punk pins from Not in America I would say. What do I get? Oh my god there's so many great songs dude. Oh my god. Thank you. Thank you for saying the buzz cox actually because I'm gonna talk about enough. Yeah they don't get enough love. And the singer passed away that was really sad. We got to play with them once in England or something back in the day. Damn that's a good top six girl. But I know I'm reading the text. You're some other ones. I know. Now that I'm in now that I'm looking back at the zone without you guys top 10. Beach Beach House Beach House. You know how beach house they're from Maryland. I don't know about them. No I'm right now I know though. Okay Beach House is a whole like feeling. Okay you can put on. You can go and go. You're about the feeling. You're all about the feeling. I love that. Yeah. Blondie Blondred. Oh Blond Redhead. Blond Redhead. I'm gonna send you that too. Did you have a lot of it? Oh my god. Okay. This is the last one. I promise. Ready? Are you through the Wases? Yeah but like I feel like I'm a poser always. Okay. Me too. I know like you song. I agree. Me too. I respect the culture. I respect you too. But don't forget. Don't forget braid. Okay. First time being talked on the podcast braid. Wow. Yeah. So that's a great one, Hilly. Well thank you. I love you. I appreciate you so much and thanks to all the listeners for this long episode. It's we went deep. We covered everything. This is a retirement offer podcast. Yeah. Enjoy it everybody. I'm never doing interviews again. You this is what you get. But it was so fun. It was a conversation. It was fun. Do them. So happy and always appreciate your time and yeah, hopefully I see you in the late soon when this party I'm stoked. Yes. Yeah. Well, since we have a flyer, I'll send it to you guys so you all can show up and we can just really just celebrate. It'll be so fun. No, I'll be so excited to celebrate with you. I'm so happy for you. I appreciate you. Have a great day. Enjoy your hibernation and thanks for thanks for the part of people. You don't check your DMs, right? No, I am complete. I am for real done. Okay. So this is crazy. Cannot get in contact with Hilly. Any way shape or form on the internet. Can people email the website? Probably not. No, no, no, no. That's another thing. One last thing. If they want to see you and know what you're about, come to your show. Come see you alive. Regiolirics. Check out your own interviews. You've done. Yeah. That's pretty so about there enough to the world through music, through everything, performance and all that. So I get it, man. and I'm sure he probably gets so many DMs there. It's gotta be great. - Okay. Okay, also shelter Whoa Adam Blase can be I'm blaze gonna be I'm blaze gonna be so hyped It's not forget cuz he played on the mantra record. That's a great record. Oh, which that's my favorite. Oh shit Yeah, thank you for saying shoulder. That's awesome. They'll be super excited Yeah, I know you're gonna text What you got I Well, okay, so speaking of if people want to know what's up. Obviously they can go to the website Which is my name. That if you don't know my name you have no business listening If all that all the young kids dot net is like a dot com, but it's like old school But I I think like one goal for the next year With I mean, it's kind of post Atlantic related, but I kind of want to move all of my the stuff that I update and everything to my website That's cool. Aras got to like own their shit a little bit more and um, you know, I think Carly from the band Wednesday Their their website is great and she uploads stuff from tour all the time. It's just it's really cool So don't don't don't hold me to it yet, but that'll be like a way I think that people can stay more up to date with me have a sub stack too, but I I don't update it that often So please where they can so be less social media more the dot net Which is kind of cool kind of old school go there have a community there people can yeah Who people to compensate on that site or will be that board for people to talk about things or not? I don't know man I think people need to learn how to talk in person again I love that I feel like the message boards was the beginning of the downfall so many things from music And that's a whole the podcast when that shit started coming like the being over all the different boards was like such negativity and like Yeah, I feel you on that. So just yeah come there and you can check our stuff you're doing and but yeah I go see your on tour in March. Oh, yeah, I got the thing. I forgot the tour kicks off in Atlanta At oh, and I'm definitely gonna try to come to DC for sure Definitely got three nights in LA, which is fucking awesome crazy girl Yeah, that's the first place I met you the wilderness so you guys better pop up poppin up hoppin out okay We're done. We think we're done. This is done. Thanks listeners. Thank you. Haley love you have a great day happy new party and we'll talk soon All right, bye Gotta give a big shot to liquid death I've been in band called h2o for 30 years and my first real Job with a company is a water brand go figure love you look with death love the people love the brand love the concept love They give back love the community love the doof in the environment You can go liquid death dot com slash oil. Oh see get free shipping on any of their merchandise they make they have such incredible Colabs also if you want to hear the story of the CEO my good friend Mike Cesario On the podcast you can go to episode 115 part one and then two years later we dropped a part two which is episode 275 with the CEO Mike Cesario Just a man from Delaware with a dream worked at a marketing company and made this become a reality Like the death is an incredible company incredible water incredible people I'm super super honored to be part of them. They sponsor my life. They sponsor everything my family So go liquid death dot com slash oil. I'll see and get free shipping on anything you want to buy on that site if you want to get water It's exclusively on Amazon dot com Murdy a thirtieth y'all I always ask my guests that they have any regrets. I personally don't have any regrets Even when it comes to my tattoos. I have the silliest tattoos even my ET on my leg It's still a childhood memory for me and I love it. I've had tattoos on top of tattoos Strictly because I wanted more tattoos. I started getting tattoos when I was 18 and 52 now and I can't stop I've had lazy treatment before on something on my arm. It's four tattoos on top of each other And that experience at that place was pretty fast. It was pretty cold It was in and out swipe the credit card Don't really tell me much didn't give me much details or anything was going to happen. So I never went back So as I most recently I'm so lucky enough to have had two sessions at the moveery tattoo removal my tattoo my arm looks like a big black blob is now super light I've had two sessions. I have a long road ahead of me None of the stuff happens overnight. You cannot take a tattoo off from one sitting after the patient And it's painful the ice you up. It's super fast It's me. It felt like a bunch of rubber bands But what's more painful than that is looking at something on your body that you think you're stuck with with rest of your life That sucks, but now for me. I'm really happy. I started this journey. I'm slowly gonna get this tattoo removed I never thought a million years have any kind of real estate. Oh my arm. I don't know what I want But it's exciting I'm so honored to announce that one life when sense podcast is now with removery called 866 934 4570 of your movie.com use Tobie H2O and get a hundred dollars off your first session One of the most experienced tattoo removal companies in the world Removery has 155 rotations and 1.8 million treatments US candidate in Australia stated there are people with laser technology Cryotechnology to do something discomfort This is so exciting for me because all I do in these podcasts are talking about tattoos From day one, he listens to this podcast. Tell me tattoos. Tell me about getting removed. Talk about getting recovered up So this is such a perfect fit for me. Definitely check out one life when chance podcast episode 281 I have Carmen Brody Mike McTernan and Dustin Ordle fun removery and this is over two hour conversation People have submitted questions. It's an incredible conversation breaking down The do's the don'ts the fears process The results Everything you could imagine about getting a tattoo removed. It's all in this podcast. It's an incredible episode I appreciate them all coming out for it So check that out if you want to learn more about removery and what is like to get a tattoo removed once again Go to removery.com. We'll call 866 934 4570 use my code Tobie H2O and get a hundred dollars off these guys are located everywhere. Try it out As we get older we start paying attention to where we put in our bodies I personally would listen to my body since I was 18. I went vegan. I've always been focused on my health It's super important mental and physical health But it's really important for people who just started to get more healthy and trying to step up their life Doing your homework reading the labels researching and verifying everything that's quality It's part of the game these days. That's why I started drinking AG1s I'm so proud to have enough sponsor my podcast. AG1 is a foundational nutrition supplement that delivers daily nutrients and gut support And is backed by multiple research studies. You can trust where you put into your body We're also busy these days So just throw a pack of AG1 in the morning into a cup of water Then shake it up and drink it I love the way it tastes. They do every single morning. It's part of my routine I bring the packets on tour. It's incredible life-changer for me many supplements only reference research from ingredients in their product But I trust AG1 and my daily routine because it's constantly putting the formula to the test It's backed by multiple research studies And one of those research studies AG1 was shown to have doubly amount of healthy bacteria in the gut Which is super important because these help digest in the immune system and the immune health And these bacteria are known to help with digestion as well gas and bloating which I freaking need And it also promotes regular bowel movements where I can test too In another research study, 97% participants felt more energy after 30 days and 91% Of the participants noticed that they needed less coffee after 60 days I could cough at like five months ago. 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