Episode 372

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. I don't know his life anymore. I am no longer a part of it. He made that perfectly clear when he decided to sleep with my sister. On the morning of October 13th, 2021, Jason Schaeffer is halfway through his male delivery route in Longmont, Colorado. It's a more recent subdivision of oversized symmetrical homes, sitting close together on small lots, much like the rest of America. Jason drives slowly from box to box. He's been at it since early that morning. So after starting his route, Jason stops for a few minutes to see his live-in girlfriend, Rosa, as he frequently does during the day. Jason's son is at school. Rosa leaves for work. And Jason goes back to his route. It's the same old, same old. Stop the truck, open the door, step out, sort the mail. The door stays open behind him, and the truck beeps at him on and off all day. Jason is close to the mailbox when the first loud pop rings out. There's no time to question what it is. Whether it's a car backfiring, a construction hammer, or something else. The force hits his body. Before realizing what's happening, there's more. So I'm not 911, I address the emergency. Yes, hi, I'm at 2005 Sicily Circle. I need an ambulance. Our post office guy was just shot. I heard four shots, and he's down. There's a sex. I'm checking on him right now. I am not. I can go there. I'm okay. Jason knows what happened to him. Jason goes down beside the passenger side of his mail truck. His body falling partly into the road, his head near the curb. He's unconscious. Blood gushes from his mouth, and his face is disfigured. A huge deep gash sets above the right eye, and a bullet hole pierces his cheek just under the left eye. Other wounds are visible too. One on his upper right chest, another on the middle left of his back. Envelopes are strewn all over the road. The truck is still there, of course, and the door is still open. The truck's beeping. Rings through the air in this residential community. Is he breathing? Yes, he is breathing. He is breathing. Please, son of ammo. Okay, man, I have sent you that eye. Is there a lot of sending them? Do you need to answer the questions that I have? Where is he bleeding from? And he ran that way. Man, where is he bleeding from? He's bleeding out of his mouth. Okay, he's bleeding out of his mouth. He was shot. Can you guys tell where he was shot? Can you tell where he was shot? Did anyone witness this? I don't know if anybody saw it. Exactly. We saw someone run. We heard four shots. Okay, which way did the pension run? Four shots in the guy room. Down when it's gone. Witnesses at the scene are still trying to figure out what happened. Then if this guy is going to make it. But they also describe seeing another man flee the scene. Okay, what was that person wearing? A hoodie? Blue mask. Yeah, I couldn't identify him. I just saw a backside of a man running away after four shots. If he conscious, if he's breathing, does anybody have pressure on a wound? Can we find a wound? I'm honestly afraid to touch him. Okay, if he is injured and he's been shot, somebody needs to touch him because we need to know what's going on. I don't think he's breathing anymore. Okay, we're going to need to do CPR if he's not breathing. Are you outside? I'm not able to do CPR. Can I talk to somebody who is willing to do CPR? Can everybody do CPR on him? Oh gosh. There's only me in my neighbor and I don't think he's breathing anymore. Okay, is there anyone who is willing to do CPR? I know it doesn't seem like he's breathing, but I need somebody to get close enough to him to get some. So I'm not for me and then to do CPR if that is the case. I don't know what to tell you. I need help. I understand that, man. Is there anyone else there with you who is the person that you were talking to? My neighbor, Katie, she is standing here and we're very afraid. And I don't know how to do CPR. I will tell you how to do CPR if you will go to him. Listen, when you're faced with an emergency, there are two kinds of people. The kind that hop in action and save a life and whatever this woman is. I mean, who has the time? Okay, we have the police. We have the police. I'm going to let you guys. As soon as paramedics get there, they rush to Jason's lifeless body and start CPR. Scent to 19. We're at the corner of Heather Hill and Renaissance and about with Wheeler. The paramedics kept pushing. They know that even if Jason doesn't have a pulse, they still have a duty. CPR is the only thing buying time. It keeps the blood moving to the brain and heart for a few more minutes. And sometimes, those minutes matter. So when officers and paramedics reach Jason, they keep going. One person starts compressions and another takes over and keeps switching back and forth. You do what you need to do. I'm not supposed to put somebody set up the suspect. Suction is necessary. Do you like an N-A-L-E for Heather Hill? I need suction. I need suction. Needing suction means there's too much blood and fluid. They're trying to clear out Jason's airway while someone else keeps compressing his chest. Then, they get out their medical equipment. They hoist Jason onto a gurney and strip away his clothes. A monitor is attached and he's moved into the ambulance. That's when the rescue effort shifts into an investigation. The officers move away from the mail truck and the blood-stained curb and begin to speak to neighbors, who had actually seen what took place in real time. One of them had been standing at her mailbox just minutes earlier. I saw a guy, black lady, blue ghost nurse. Pretty much right where that red sign is? Walking towards the wall. Where were you standing? You're over there. You see him standing on the other side of the sidewalk. Grab my mail from him, chat it for a minute or two. Walked back. Honestly, as soon as I closed my door and heard the gunshots and saw that guy take off. Were you one of the 911 callers? When you got up to him, what did you see? The witnesses gave the police what they can. They saw a man in a black hoodie coming right up on Jason and firing four or five consecutive bullets. That's a man then ran from Heather Hill's circle down to Renaissance Drive and disappeared. Officers spread out throughout the neighborhood, but a description only tells police what to look for. They still don't know why anyone would walk up to a mail carrier in the middle of the day and shoot him on his route. They need to know more about Jason, starting with his employer. The detective approaches Jason's postal supervisor. So, anyone who's had a problem with? You know, I wouldn't go so far as to say, yeah, the problem with them. We had a carrier, another one I like, but I would think that they would come after me and not him. But he was the type that if he saw somebody do something wrong. If he was, he would speak up and say something. I still wouldn't think that John is off his, his rocket that much. I don't think he had it. I know he knew Jason have wrote a statement. on here. Do you remember with Jason road Jonathan up for slamming? What was the statement? I can give you a copy of it. But it was mainly, he had outbursts of anger in the parking lot and he was slamming, he made all walking all over it, pushing cars into, he's on medication and he went off of it. Okay. As far as the supervisor was concerned, Jason was a great guy and a hard worker. He even came in early a lot just to help out. He was a rule follower with a strong sense of justice, but some people didn't like that. He's the type that would help everybody. I mean, he has his ways, but we all got our ways, but I mean, far as, like I said, he's more meticulous if you see something happening wrong, he will be that one that would speak up. Jason will? Yeah, he will be that one and say, oh, this is BS, y'all know y'all wrong. The fired employee gave detectives a plausible lead, but Jason's supervisor doubted that this guy would have blamed Jason personally. I just can't see nobody hurt me. But then I can't see the job guy in his neighborhood. We have never really had things like this happening, so it has to be personal. Yeah. Personal. This word starts to shift the case. Until then, police are chasing what witnesses describe as a man running from Heather Hill's circle wearing a hoodie in a face mask and heading in a particular direction. But now they were finding out personal details. Whoever shot him did it in broad daylight in front of witnesses. Jason was killed in front of neighborhood mailboxes. On a route, he drove every day. At a time when someone could have known exactly where he would be. This killing wasn't about just any male carrier. Someone wanted Jason dead. The circumstances suggested that someone may have been waiting for him. And Jason's life wasn't the only one taken. Police and paramedics tried to save Jason on the street, but he never made it to the hospital. He was pronounced dead on the route. In the street, Jason's supervisor from the post office was already talking to investigators. She knew Jason's route and the people he worked with. And when the detective asked who might have had a problem with Jason, she gave a possibility. She said a former employee was fired after Jason spoke out about him. But even as she said it, that explanation didn't quite fit. If that person was angry enough to hurt someone, she thought he would come after management instead. Not Jason. According to the supervisor, there wasn't even more likely situation involving tension and conflict surrounding Jason. It was a custody battle. And then, as far as the custody, he was going through something, but he's trying to work it out. But I don't know too much about her. Like I said, I don't think any of us know more about her. The only ones that's going to know is the people that's posting them. Because we do try to share things with each other. But we have to have that fine line, unfortunately, so. Even when there's a fine line, rumors find a way in. And the supervisor remembered hearing about someone who was dating Jason's ex. Do you know anything about anyone else that she would have been dating possibly? Now, just to mention that. And then again, like I said, we don't really have desirable people. And, you know, because you know, everybody's trying to just get people to hire. So, I can't remember if it's her. I got a couple of carriers who have issues with their significant other ex. So, but I do recall her saying that she got a boyfriend that threatened her. How long ago is that that you heard that? This had to have been in August. I want to say it was around August. Because when I asked something you wanted to talk about, that's when I broke the rules. As much as it's something that we need to be aware of, do I need to change her route? Do I need to change the setup? Do she know you route? What do you want me to do when you say you take care of it? But again. So, he didn't really divulge anything to you. He just said he'll handle it. He said he'll handle it. At that point, detectives didn't know if this was a real threat or whether it had anything to do with what happened on Heather Hill's circle. But they had a name. So, later that night, they went to talk to a guy named AJ. How are you? Are you AJ? Yeah. AJ, my name is Inspector Chris Lucas. I'm a federal agent in the United States Postal Inspection Services Inspector Moll. Okay. We've got a gentleman here who loves the PD as well. My life. Okay. That's hot. AJ, your last name's Richie, right? Right. Okay. Can we talk to you for a few minutes? Is it possible for us to come in or do you rather talk to you outside? Man, rather you talk to me outside. Okay. She's going to be present. That's my turn. Yeah. Weird how he suddenly has a lawyer there, right? Well, that was his wife. His wife was his lawyer. We just want to talk to you a little bit about a lady by the name of Devon. Devon. Okay. Shriner. Do you know her? Yeah. How do you know her? She's a friend. She's a friend? Yeah. How well do you know her? Um, I've been on her 13 years now. Okay. I'm not sure name, I'm sorry. Oh, I'll leave. Oh, I'm going to turn. Yeah, it's going to be my turn. It's all right. You hold the bar. We're good. Okay. So how do you know her? You said you've known her for about 13 years? Yeah. So we've been friends for 13 years. Okay. Over the last year. So it hasn't been a very good friendship. Okay. But that's how I know her. Okay. So what do you mean to have them in a good friendship over the last year? Um, she, she definitely made it pretty clear that she liked me more than I liked her. Okay. And I'm married. So we kind of separated a bit. We still talk. Okay. We talk today. I have a pretty good idea what this is about because when did when did you talk to her? Apparently what she was right into the police station. Devin Schreiner, Jason's ex, wanted him, he stated. But the fact was that he was married and they were only friends. That doesn't mean that their history wasn't always platonic. And the affair may not have been over. Devin's sister Rosa knew it too. And when you say one of her men was it one of her boyfriend's or yeah, she is two. Okay. I know. So you said she had two boyfriend. So she was just going to Joseph and then AJ, which is the guy AJ also mentioned. Okay. All right. So I have to take a step back here and explain who's who because you might get lost in all the different names. The person you just heard is Rosa Devin's sister. In the clip you heard, she's confirming that Devin considered a guy named AJ to be a boyfriend, even though he was married. Now these two sisters had been estranged for several years before briefly living together again in 2021. At the heart of the dispute was the fact that Devin was a bit promiscuous dating two men at a time, both AJ and a guy named Joseph. And Devin wasn't the only one that was a little promiscuous. Rosa had become involved with one of her sister's boyfriends, Joseph. And Devin was pissed about it. She forced her to leave. So what did Rosa do? Well, I guess these two are related. So she moved in with her sister's ex, Jason, the victim, and their relationship quickly became serious. This is how Rosa knew who Devin was sleeping with and who she wasn't. She saw with her own eyes that AJ and her sister had something going on. Rosa recalled her sister making a threat and it made her nervous. I don't remember what the threat was about. If you don't do this, AJ knows where he lives and he has his guns. And he even told me he was like, I was worried about that for a while, but no, I don't, I'm not worried about it. AJ, specifically AJ. He wears me the most big time. And I don't know how often he comes around. When I lived with her, he was around quite often, immediately thought of AJ. So you know, AJ has, you know, impression that AJ has that access to guns because of the comments that she made. Yeah. The first person Rosa thought about was AJ. Her account contradicted AJ's description of the relationship, giving detectives another reason to question him. Rosa made them aware of yet another concern. Her five-year-old nephew, the son of Devon, and Jason. Hi, I was transferred to you. I was told that I needed to speak with you. I'm not really sure about, but I've been getting a lot of calls from past coworkers and people that I know saying that there may have been an accident with my son's father. Devon brought up the calls she had received from former colleagues since she had also worked at the post office. Okay. Yeah, there's been an incident and so we're trying to figure out what's going on. I have no idea what it is if it's a random event or, but yeah, I'd like to talk to you about this. Are you available to come in? Can you tell me what's happening because everybody just keeps saying there's an accident and my son is supposed to be with him right now. And he has five years old. Yeah, we have this. Chris is here. You have my son. Yep. I'm sorry. Chris is here. He's fine. Rosa came to pick him up because it's what's going on. Okay, so I don't I don't understand why nobody called me. We're trying to find your contact information. My process information should be anywhere that my son's father is. We are I understand that we're not together, but I'm I'm his mother and I. She had a right to be upset because Jason was the father of her kid and he had obviously been in some sort of accident or something. Instead of letting her know the police had let her sister who was living with him, get her son and bring him to the police station. I'm going to find out who I was in charge of that and ask him what's going on. Yeah. Rosa is not his guardian. She should not be having custody again right now. We're not saying that she's having custody or anything like that. We just want to be Saturday. Okay, but you so it was with my son to pick it up from daycare. Yes. Okay, the daycare has my contact information. He should not have been removed from the school until I was contacted. Well, let's figure out what's going on. Well, that's what we need to talk about and talk about this in depth. Are you able to come down to the police department and in the meantime, I'll find out who was out on the same. Oh, I mean, you have my son. Yes, of course, I'm coming down there. I'm in for Collins. So I am, I am a little, a little bit way. It'll take me a little bit of time to get there. Okay, well, does she need, does she need to be, I, she's my sister and there's, there's a lot of family issues with me and her going on that I don't want her, I don't want her with him. She's not just guardian. Okay, all right. We won't let her leave with, with Chase. So come on in and I'm going to get it all straight down. On the phone, Devon sounded like someone trying to get information from the outside, but she was Jason's ex. She was the mother of his son and she needed to know what was happening. But by the time detectives talked to Rosa, they heard something a lot more complicated. They heard about the tangled and complex love lives of sisters Devon and Rosa. These two got around. I'll tell you, while Rosa was living with Devon, she slept with Devon's boyfriend Joseph. Rosa told detectives that she went to Joseph's apartment late one night to help him calm down after an argument with Devon. And then she put it, she fell asleep. In fact, her exact words were, it was late. I fell asleep, woke up in his bed and you can imagine what happened. So yeah, there was tension between these two very promiscuous sisters. Yeah, they were kind of having an argument. And then, yeah, when I'm sure it's a permanent term, it kind of helped them. Anyways, there was, and you helped Joseph? Yeah, just like talking wise, make sure he was okay. I was going on anyways. Do you remember when they were on a free day? They were arguing over her brother. So you said she had two boyfriend, so she was just going to Joseph and then AJ, which is the guy AJ also mentioned. Okay. So they were arguing over that and then you ended up going over and talking to yourself. How did your sister respond to that? Well, she didn't know that situation. Because of course there was a little bit of concern. Anyways, I ended up telling her. And she was very, very sad. She threatened to kill herself. It's hard to make out some of what Rosa is saying. She had been crying and she was talking quietly. But overall, she was trying to explain a messy family history that was already in place before Jason was ever part of it. Rosa said she didn't even really consider Devon to be her sister. That's how bad it was. Devon had been out of her life for years. And when they reconnected, their relationship didn't just repair itself. Got worse. Much worse. For a while, Rosa lived with Devon until she crossed the line and slept with her man Joseph. Well, one of her men, I should say. Rosa denied having an ongoing relationship with him. But after she told Devon what happened, she said Devon wanted her gone. Understandably. By late June, Rosa was no longer living with Devon. She'd been kicked out. And after staying at several places, she was invited to move in with her sister's ex, Jason. And almost immediately, Rosa and Jason became a couple. Rosa was also helping care for Jason Devon's little boy when Jason had custody of him. The relationship between the two sisters had deteriorated so much that Rosa wasn't even sure she trusted Devon. As a mother, "I'm telling you right now you cannot be with her. You can't. What do you think would happen?" He thought, "I mean, he would come back with us the days Jason picked him up with Bruce's on him and he would say, "Hey, where are these Bruce's from? They never told. She would never tell him. Did she end her? Go ahead. Sorry, and it worries me, with her men there. The aging. Specifically, aging." Rosa described her own sister as a failing parent. But that wasn't all she had to say about her. "Because she's a horrible person. She's a horrible person. I know the fact that she, like I said, that she's with me that made her mad at it." Detectives weren't sure which relationship was more bitter. The one between Jason and Devon or Rosa and Devon. Jason, on the other hand, was no longer alive to talk about it. But there was a lot more to this story and it all pointed back to the post office. Devon had once worked for the Postal Service herself. The same one Jason worked for in Longmont. But that didn't last long and she was moved to a different location as a sub. "So they had a child together. She worked for the post office for less than two weeks. How were you aware of their issues or their custody issues? What were the problems that you knew that they were having?" But one of my close came to me and told me that she was in the building, looking in his case, looking around his case. That's when I had all the. "Tell work?" "Yeah." "We're looking around." "Yeah, she's looking around. So I had all the post changed. She was given a different code and I took it out. So how she got in the building, either they left the door open because Carey has to do that. Or he shared his code with her and. "Did she already been let go at that point?" So Daven was assigned a knee location but she showed up again, rifling through Jason's things. Somehow she got a code that wasn't hers and let herself in. The postal supervisor wasn't happy about this, but then again, she maintained that this particular office had different standards than what she was used to. Sounds like a management problem or lack thereof. "Well, I'm sorry. We actually really didn't hire the significant other in that particular office. We hired you for the same company, but because we try to avoid situations like this, you couldn't work in the same office. When I got out here, I got Mama, Sister Daddy, cousin, Uncle and I, working in the same office and when they blow up, they blow up. I didn't even know that that was his girlfriend, honestly. I thought that maybe he had better taste too, but apparently not. I thought she was a little bit strange and all, so the job wasn't right for her, that in the fact that she was constantly worried, she was just strange and odd. Devon may have seemed odd to the postal supervisor and Rosa may have questioned her as a mother, but there were two sides to this story. And from Devon's side, the last few months had been humiliating. She had left one postal job and started delivering mail somewhere else. She was fighting Jason over custody and her sister was part of the custody battle, since she was living with her ex and assuming the role of stepmom to her kid. Then when Jason had an accident and their son needed to be picked up from daycare, the call went to Rosa, not the mom, Devon. At this point, she was confused and angry, trying to take control of the situation. Okay, well I mean him to be here now, I saw my father's car outside and I'm not really sure why he's here. Your father's car? Yeah, who's your dad? His name is Raoul. Raoul? Yeah. Okay. Is he not allowed to see her kid? He's a registered set-up vendor, so we better not be wrong, my kid. I'm not sure who's worried. He's safe right now. The officer that I spoke to on the phone said that he was with my sister and she doesn't have custody of him either, because she's not his guardian. So I need to know where my kid is and I need to know what's happening, because nobody's telling me anything. Okay. Nobody was telling her anything because anyone connected to Jason was a potential suspect. Okay. We don't really know. You're suddenly safe. You know he's safe. I don't know. He's safe. Nobody called me. Okay. I'm living for Collins. I work in love and I live in for Collins and nobody called me. I had co-workers. I haven't spoken, well, past co-workers, I guess, that I haven't spoken to in years telling me that my son's father was in an accident. This is the police department. He is here. Okay. Why is he not here with me? I need him to be here with me. I haven't seen him. I don't know what's happened. He was taken from the school without my knowledge or consent and I don't know what's happened to his father. Um, good, Evan. Yes. My pronounced name is Evan? Yes. I'm Steve. You can call me Steve. Um, we've got to kind of step back here a little bit. I'm going to tell you some bad news. Um, your ex-boyfriend is it? It says me. It says me. I just call him my son's dad. Son's dad. He's never married, but he died. Devon's size, as she puts her head down and runs her fingers through her long hair. But how? What happened? Some child in the face. In the face? Where? On his postal route. He was working today, he doesn't. Yep. He was working and sometimes he knocked the child. When did this happen? In the 1232 today. It is 6 o'clock. Yeah. Um, so it's kind of a long story. Devon is focused on the time of day, implying she's been left out of the loop. The detective is about to pull her into the loop, starting with her rights. After all, no one has been ruled out yet, least of all, Devon, who was connected to AJ and AJ, who has allegedly threatened Jason in the past. I'm really kind of concerned. I know that you got served just the other day with the child custody, but you were new upset about that. Well, AJ, you told Devon in the past that AJ knows where you live, and that they'll shoot you if he needs to. Have you told who? You told that to Devon. And Devon told that to me. Why not? That's the truth. Yeah. Well, he heard Jason her death from you. And then Jason told Rose that Rose told us that that's happened about a year ago, but that AJ knows where you live, Jason and AJ will shoot you, Jason. I said that. I said that. I've never said that. What's your car? The crime scene area. Why are you in that area? The car. Why are you turning off your skin? I didn't turn off my scanner, Mike. You did. No, I didn't. I just don't expect his appearance. I just turn off my scanner or-- or you didn't go with the scanner. The scanner is a Japanese man's house, somewhere in that area, in front of it or in a bushel where in that area. It wasn't with you. OK, they had a breadcrumb trail, a GPS on the scanner, and those inspectors were here. And they said before the homicide, you're not doing anything with the scanner, that station area for like three hours or more. And it should be normal because you're working. But if that's your boyfriend's house, and why is your car in the crime scene area? I don't-- I've got video of your car in the crime scene. I don't know why it would be on camera that my car was down there, but I don't-- That's it. If I don't scan-- I could just-- Packages, then obviously I'm not doing that, but I did stop, and right, I did stop at his house for my lunch break sort of. Three hours is sort of a long lunch break, if you can afford it. So I'm asking, did you have AJ do something? Do you think AJ was involved in something like this? Do you think the castanator, or maybe it looks like it's you? Castanator, I don't-- The other boyfriend? I castanated it. Well, I know who that is, I just don't understand how he's-- I don't know, one of your boyfriends, one of your associates, someone killed your ex, and you want to find out who it is. It seems like you're involved, your car is there. The detective is doing one of the toughest jobs of his life right now, a job I had to do. Sorting out the men in Devin's life. You might have to draw a diagram after this episode, because it does get a little complex the way these two women are just, you know, going at it with all these different men. Well, actually, all the same men. Anyway, there is Joseph Castanator, her current boyfriend, and then there's AJ, I don't know what AJ stands for, sorry, but he's the married guy that Rosa had already named as one of Devin's men, the guy who threatened the victim, and Devin's problem isn't just that she knows AJ, it's that her car was seen near the scene, and her postal scanner, the device that should be moving along with her as she delivers mail, has been stationary at AJ's house. Her route stops, her scanner sits near AJ, and Jason is shot while she's at lunch. But Devin doesn't seem threatened. She goes back to the one thing she keeps demanding, her son. And she says, "I'm going to go back to the school, and we said we don't want anyone picking up a child until we figure out who's good and who's safe, who we can't live with this job too." The ex who the ex husband shows up at the school, the wife's dead, and I'm not going to make some change for the ex husband, but we just killed the mother. That's going to put the kid in the wrong way. So, let's just stand there, please, one or one business. But nobody calls me. And then, just as an understanding what the detective is trying to say. So, he tries a little harder to explain it to her. Kind of like a game of clue. He doesn't need to go, but if he can be, can I at least see him for a minute? No, I don't know. If the Butler killed your baby daddy son, or if you killed baby daddy son, or if a cookie killed him, or if it was a random person killed him, I don't know who killed him. And I don't want to turn over to the ex to the baby until I know that everything is legit and that you're calm and that you're rational and you're not a crazy person, because I've never met you before. I'm not calm. My son was taken, nobody told me that anything happened. My son was taken from school by either police, and I was not informed, or by somebody who was not legally allowed to pick him up from school. A parent focusing on locating a five-year-old under those circumstances is not inherently incriminating. But she never mentions her son's loss or the death of his father, as if she's already processed it. He's definitely ruling out the imaginary. but he's not done pointing the finger at AJ and Devon. It's just not going to be in the library with a candlestick. - Devon, I think you're the person with something that's not right here. I think it gave us out. There's something weird going on here. Everything is pointing to you being involved in this shooting. People don't go around to shooting most of people. - I mean, I work for the post office and I have before, and I have been - Supposedly you're on video, too. It's a good reaction to the long-awaited post office. - That's a separate-- - Didn't break in. I work for the post office. I'm allowed to go in. - But who cares about that? Let's just skip the bird. - Birdlary. - Let's talk about the homicide. - So let's talk about the homicide. Before the detectives said it out loud, they had already laid out the pieces. A Nissan rogue with a missing front hubcap near the crime scene. Devons, Nissan, I might add. Postal scanners record more than delivered packages. They also record location. Devon's scanner should have moved with her on her route. Instead, it remained near AJ's home for roughly three hours. Devon said she was there for lunch, sort of. AJ had already been named in a threat against Jason. And he had guns. So a car, a scanner, a three-hour lunch, a married boyfriend with a gun, then the detective presented the next clue. - Why, what's your involvement in this? 'Cause I think there's a lot more that you're telling us. The video of the shooter looks kind of like you. It's from a distance, but it looks like you're hiding your bill. It doesn't look like AJ's height bill. It doesn't look like Castanade's height bill. But it's like your bill with a black hoodie. - Eye witnesses had described a man running from the scene and the mask and the black hoodie. But they had obviously missed something. It wasn't a man in that hoodie. It was Devon. The detective wasn't guessing either. He already knew it was her. How could they be so sure it was Devon, you might ask? Well, the answer is simple. They were sure because they had seized AJ's phone and found a screenshot of Devon in the exact same outfit, taking a bathroom selfie of all things. What a dumbass. - There is nothing being hidden. There's nothing else. - Okay, so if we don't talk about your car and you want to continue this conversation or you've done what the conversation really had. - There really is nothing else to say of. Said my day, I've said what I needed to say. I don't see what other questions you would have. - Well, I'd like to know who do you think would have done this to Jason? - I don't know who would have done this to Jason. He made that perfectly clear when he decided to throw a lot of better words, sleep with my sister. - Can I talk to you about that or do you want an attorney? - There's nothing to hide with that either, so I will answer questions about that. - Okay. - You're okay answering questions about your sister. - Yes. - Are they dating? - They are dating. - Are they sleeping together? - Definitely sleeping together in front of my son, which is how I found out about your old. - Okay. How old your sister? She aged? - 19. - She was turned 19. - How old are you? - 26. - Okay. - She had been living with me at the beginning of this year until the end of June. - Okay. - And then I found out that she not only slept with my ex-boyfriend, but also with my son's dad. - Okay. - And I kicked her out and I told her she was no longer alive to live in my house. If she was going to be that kind of person. - Okay. - Even then, Devon didn't confess. She wasn't budging. She didn't say she shot Jason. She didn't confirm the selfie was real or that the hoodie was even hers. Or that the person the witness saw running from the mailbox was her. She stayed where she had been from the very beginning in an angry, confused, and even slided state, carrying her way out of responsibility as she'd always done before. Her statements gave detectives a possible motive, resentment over the custody fight and Jason's relationship with her sister. Only one thing hovered in the air when they led Devon away in handcuffs was her married boyfriend, AJ. Complicit. (gentle music) (dramatic music) - By that evening, detectives were pretty sure that the evidence pointed to Devon as the shooter. Her car had been recorded near the scene. Her postal scanner had remained stationary at AJ's home for hours. Investigators had recovered an incriminating selfie from AJ's phone and Devon had openly expressed resentment towards Jason and her sister, Rosa. But Devon never admitted to shooting him. That evening, Devon Shreiner was arrested for first-degree murder, but she wouldn't be alone. - Jim Lungman, police of the rest of the man they say was complicit in the murder that happened here just last week and according to police documents, they revealed that man's followed Jason on the morning of his mail route. - 34-year-old Andrew Ritchie was taken into custody last night on charges for complicity to commit first-degree murder. Police say he was in a relationship with Devon Shreiner who's charged for shooting Jason, her ex-boyfriend and child's father. In Andrew's 23-page arrest affidavit, he told police Devon had talked about killing Jason. Andrew admitted he followed Jason last Wednesday morning to see if Devon would show up. He told officers he even had a 15-second conversation with Jason, telling him he was pushing Devon over the line regarding child custody. Andrew says Jason told him he wasn't afraid of her. - Okay, I looked it up. Andrew Ritchie was his name. That's AJ, Andrew Ritchie. I don't know what the J's for, still. But AJ was also arrested and charged with complicity to commit murder. AJ or Andrew's account shifted responsibility towards Devon, of course. And this information made its way into a jail phone call between Devon and her other boyfriend, Joseph. - Hi, hi, dear. Are you okay? What's wrong? - There's more news today. - What happened? - AJ telling them everything, as well as they found a picture of you in the outfit. - The picture is important because Devon's defense attorney would later argue that she was coerced by AJ. But that's pretty, you know, hard to believe considering she took a selfie in the same outfit the killer wore. I mean, what kind of a fucking dumbass take selfies of themselves before committing a crime? It takes a real piece of shit narcissist. And I think that's what we got here. - What did he say? - He tried to talk you down and. - He had been going on for a while and he tried to warn Jason. - But that's also hard to believe, given what AJ and Devon allegedly said next. - Well, besides the picture of you in the same outfit that happened that day, he's also stating that he said today's the day and you have everything you need on the day. When he dropped you off to work, he was being held for a complicity. - During most of the phone call, Devon's boyfriend, Joseph, was torn up about being separated from Devon. I guess he really missed that sweet community push. Meanwhile, she did a whole lot of apologizing to him. - Sorry, you're not okay. - I just wish I could have seen you again. - I know, I wish I could see you too. I'm sorry. I wish I knew what to say to make it better. Sorry. - I wish I could make your situation better if it's getting worse. - It's not your job to make this better though. - There's a lot of stuff to consume. - I'm sure there is. - I can't abandon you. - While Joseph refused to abandon her, AJ had completely turned his back. He said he tried to talk Devon out of it. He even tried to warn Jason. But the facts remain that Devon killed Jason. And AJ knew she was going to. The jury rejected their defenses and found both defendants guilty. They were later sentenced to life in prison without parole. - And keeping him in his house would be one of the best possibilities. And it is up by my dad and it is up by my sister, even though I'm not sure. They shouldn't have custody and they shouldn't take care of him. You weren't opposed to them seeing him Because they are his family and his friends are here and his friends are Yeah You know he has the neighbors the friends of his or our neighbors when we lived at the house He has his friends from school. He has Jocelyn. He has all of those friends And taking him away from everything on top of Not seeing his parents would not be good for him The custody battle continued of course This time Jason's parents were the ones fighting for custody of their grandson Devon had a different idea She felt her son should stay where he was and Joseph should raise him Either way the kid had lost both parents Which you know isn't great Jason had moved on in a way Devon deeply resented. She really liked puppeting these men around I guess But Jason was now with her younger sister He was seeking more time with his son and prosecutors argued that the custody fight and his relationship with Rosa had become part of Devon's motive to kill him She shot Jason in the middle of an ordinary neighborhood on an ordinary day While people stood outside collecting their mail It's crazy that she chose to kill him instead of her sister Which she seemed to resent even more and probably not for an unjustified reason During her first interview Devon repeatedly asked why she could not see her son By the end of the case her own actions had provided the lasting answer Jason was dead Devon was going to prison Their five-year-old son had lost both of his biological parents For the rest of her life Devon would be separated from the person she insisted mattered most her little boy In the end it just goes to show how Some of these sayings we've heard all of our lives are true and exist for a reason I'm reminded of the one saying All is fair in love and war And although it's probably a very true statement in a lot of ways There should probably be a footnote that instructs dummies like these two sisters to Keep your family out of it You They hope you've enjoyed yet another episode of sword and scale it's been 13 years. Can you believe that? I'm doing this for a very long time. It's sort of become part of me and That's unfortunate because it's very dark dark dark disturbing Stuff Usually I tell you to go buy something but not today not today Go be with your family tell me love them get my hook stay safe You (upbeat music)