[Music] Hello Andrew. Hi Andrew. I've. I've waited years. How many years? By now it must be. Two years, one month, and 25 days. I thought I was prepared. I knew the theory were just going to head to the planet for a quick break between episodes. Well, your theory was wrong Daniel. Remember the massive black hole out there? Remember relativity? I've been here for over two years. Two years! I thought you were never coming back. Why didn't you sleep? I've had a couple of stretches. Guys, the emails. The emails they kept coming. They said, "When are you doing a new episode? When are you guys going to record again? Yo! Is this podcast done? Hello? Hello?" It was relentless. Did you do anything useful with your time at least? But useful? Actually, I did Daniel. Thank you for asking. I did heaps of useful things. I spent most of my time looking into this cool composer called Hans Zimmer. Have you ever heard of him? He actually did this really amazing score. And I spent the entire time checking it out. It's going to be amazing. Glad you guys are back. High five. And seen. Smooth. Smooth. Very good. What a way to return. [Music] Welcome to Art of the Score, the podcast that explores, demystifies, and celebrates some of the greatest soundtracks of all time from the world of film, TV, and video games. I'm Andrew Poxson. And in each episode we'll be joined by Daniel Golding and Nicholas Buck. As we check out a soundtrack we love, break down its main themes, explore what makes the score tick, and hopefully impart our love of the world of soundtracks. [Music] In episode 36 we leave behind the dust bowl of the past and look to the stars in search of fertile new ground with the 2014 film Interstellar, directed by Christopher Nolan and starring Matthew McConaughey and Hathaway Michael Cain and, if you look very closely, a very young Timothy Charlemagne. But what of it score, I hear you say? Interstellar features an intimate yet somehow grand score from composer Hans Zimmer. And if not regarded as one of his best works, it can certainly be described as one of his most unique. And joining me on our journey through space and time is composer, arranger, orchestrator, conductor, and corn farmer who just refuses to leave, it's Nicholas Buck. We are back everyone. I cannot believe it. It's because one hour equals seven years where we have been. Which mean we've only been gone about 20 minutes, I think by that rationale. And rounding out our timely trio is critic, you the best in the lecture, writer, composer, ABC radio host and strange rectangular robot man who might be here to kill us or he might be here to just be sarcastic all night. It's Dr. Dan Golding, how you doing, Dan? Now you can speak. Now I can speak. Yeah, actually it's a pity because sarcasm is not really my best mode of humor. Otherwise I would have been able to jump in there to back you off with that grand introduction. But no, as Nick said, it is really good to be back. It has been a little while. Andrew, your wonderful intro was wonderful, but it also included elements of truth, which is we have gotten many, many emails. Yeah, we have gotten emails. Well, it's nice that people like to email. And Nicholas Buck, can you remind us of that email address? If people want to congratulate us on our return, perhaps, something positive. It is contact at artofthescore.com.au. So no need to be asking when we're back. We're back. And what have we been doing guys? Why the big hiatus? Well, there's lots of things that happen. Have it made Daniel? We, at least for myself, I, well, you know, we released our last episodes during COVID. Remember that? Remember that? That's a while ago. And then I changed, changed jobs and started up a new business. I still, with orchestras, still doing this sort of stuff, film and games and all sorts of things. Dan, you had something happen in your life that requires time. Yes, it's true. Yes, firstly I got married and then I had a small child. Who is somewhat less small, you know, how old is he? I think he's 15, 16 months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Months, monthly, monthly, monthly, monthly, monthly, monthly, monthly. Yeah, months. So basically guys, life happened, you know. So we do apologize listeners. But looking at, we haven't been entirely absent. We have actually done a raft of live shows. Unfortunately for our international listeners, they've only been in Australia. But we are hoping to get to a concert hall near you. And looking at our live shows have taken a slightly different format to our podcast. Only in terms of the content we've sort of looked at, you know, singular composers. One of which has been Hans Zimmer rather than sort of, you know, a particular score. And it's allowed us to sort of, you know, do a slightly different experiment. But the shenanigans have still been there. So if you are, do see us coming to a city near you in the future. Please, please do get along. Yeah, certainly any of the Australian major cities and major orchestras we have either been there already or we will be there again. Or if we've already been there, we're probably coming back with something new. So subscribe to your local orchestras. People overseas, we are attempting to reach you as soon as possible. Check out in the UK, possibly in the States, possibly through parts of Asia that speak English, because my Japanese and Chinese are terrible. But anyway, yeah, keep an eye on things. And perhaps we'll be there with an actual orchestra to play our examples rather than having to suffer, if you will, Daniel, through Nick's playing. That's very unfair, is it? Suffer, suffer. Well, I mean, the funniest thing about doing these events live is that so many people come up to Andrew and I and complement us on our piano playing. And I take the compliment too. I say, "Oh, thank you. I've been brushing up on that." For the benefit of everybody listening to these podcasts and not seeing us live, Nick is the musically talented prodigy among us. It's Nicholas Nick, who does the piano playing, and all congratulations should be. That's me, folks. You know what I love about that is that we've got some John Williams in there right off the bat. It wouldn't be another story, I'm sorry. Sure. Yeah, I mean, in some Williams in there, so. And speaking of other composers, there is one other little meoculple that I realised that we've got to throw in here before we get started on this episode. We've finished apologising. Which is that at the end of the last episode, which we recorded 20 minutes ago, the Fan Fence episode, I believe we promised something. What did we promise, Andrew? I'll look, we promised a fan favourite that everyone's been asking for and we're finally going to get to. And that's this episode. Hey! Yeah, yeah. And let me play the main theme from that. Are we going to play some music for Interstellar, or are we just going to? Eventually. We may have hinted at doing something else which Nick just played. And that something else is still coming. It's just we thought probably the majority of people might appreciate a new episode rather than an episode which is a seriously large undertaking that might hold us up from making episodes for another two years. So here we are. Be thankful for what you get basically. This is a dire start to it. We've had some doosies, everything. We're really going after a good start here. Yeah. Okay. Guys, let's move on. Hey, Jan. I love Interstellar. You love Interstellar. What can you tell us about Interstellar? Well, Interstellar I think is the most recent movie that we've ever done on our school. I think so, yes. So the history side of this segment is perhaps not quite as necessary as normal. I would say most people, not all, but most people listening to this episode would remember the year 2014. When this film came out, perhaps there were two youngs who go and see Interstellar at the movies, but our listenership would remember. So what can we talk about with the film? So Christopher Nolan is, I think, occupying is still a really interesting and unusual place in Hollywood. In that he is one of the few directors who makes original movies at a blockbuster scale. He has his own fan base. Here's to some degree his own franchise. If you look at the highest grossing films in America.
In any given year over the last little period, there will be a Star Wars, there will be a Marvel, there will be half a dozen animated films, perhaps some other blockbuster franchise films of other description, and then there might be a Christopher Nolan, like Interstellar or like Inception or like Tenet or something like that, that is not really based on a pre-existing property. It's kind of him, him alone, in terms of where that comes from. So he has really managed to carve out a unique space in Hollywood, I would say. And surely Dan, no better example of people flocking to the cinemas to see a Nolan film than his most recent one with Oppenheimer. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, with the Bob andheimer event. Although interestingly, he came off second best, I'd say, to Bob in terms of the box office. But can you imagine any other director saying I'm going to do a pretty serious biopic of a guy who you've never heard of about the Atom bomb World War II. There's not many directors who go, "Well, I have to see that." Well, not today, not today. In the 1990s, absolutely. Or even the early 2000s, I can imagine a Spielberg, I can imagine Ron Howard, I can imagine someone like that doing exactly that kind of movie and it being a modest hit. There are examples of exactly that such thing. But today, no, Nolan is alone. And so I mean, he's been making these particular Nolanesque blockbusters for a while now. His first film was in 1998 and it was following. His first film was Not Memento, as I falsely claimed in a video essay some time ago, where I was immediately corrected of my era. But basically, he's made a few superhero movies himself with the Batman trilogy. But largely their original movies and their original movies that play with time as this film very much does. But as well, there are some really interesting backstory elements to this movie. It's actually quite as, you know, I'm no scientist, but from what I can tell, it is relatively scientifically plausible. The whole premise for Interstellar was conceived by the producer Linda Obst and the theoretical physicist Kippthorn. So it has some basis in fact Carl Sagan. What would you call him? Celebrity astronomer, I suppose. Science community. Legend, legend. Set them up on a blind date. They collaborated on the film Contact, which is another film about Interstellar space travel that is wonderful, that has a great soundtrack by Alan Silvestri. And that also stars Matthew McConaughey. So it's a really lovely companion piece to Interstellar. A colleague of mine has been lobbying me for about, I don't know, ever since we started out of the score that we should do an episode on Contact and Alan Silvestri score. So this is my acknowledgement of that. But this whole film was attached to Steven Spielberg at one point. It was just one of those great scripts, one of those great ideas that was kicking around Hollywood that you often hear. Sometimes these movies are there in pre-production for a couple of decades, even before they're made. And this is one of them. And then it moved into production in Jonathan Nolan. That's Christopher Nolan's brother, whom he often collaborates with. But he's a creative person in his own right. He's largely responsible for Westworld, the TV series. He wrote a script for it. And then, you know, here we are talking about it today. There's probably a lot more that I could go into and maybe some other stuff that will come up as relevant. Well, maybe a good place to start on that, because it does tie pretty quickly into some actual music. And of course, Hans Zimmer. I mean, the history between Zimmer and Nolan is also extensive. Of course, Zimmer working with Nolan on the Batman trilogy and of course, Inception, where this comes, I guess Inception is between Batman 2 and 3, isn't it? And then this is post Batman 3. I feel like we shouldn't quite get into it until the end. But I do feel like I almost want to say off the bat that this is probably my favorite Zimmer. Or it's certainly my favorite Nolan Zimmer collaboration, the only other one that would come close would be Inception. And it's my, I think this is a much easier call to make. It's my favorite solo Zimmer soundtrack. Zimmer is, you know, a very storied collaborator. You know, he, one is first Academy Award for the Lion King, where he worked with, you know, a host of other musical people, whether it be Elton John, you know, not necessarily on the original score, but it has its influence and, and Libo M and so on. But, you know, he frequently collaborates. And so actually, in a sense, this is a relatively rare solo effort from Zimmer. But I, I think, I, you know, I really struggled to think of a solo Zimmer soundtrack that rivals my love for this score. I think I'd agree with you. And it could, I'm going to theorize here and Nick, maybe you've got some thoughts is it could have a lot to do with where this score actually started in terms of how it was first proposed to Zimmer, how the whole thing came together. Nick, do you want to tell us sort of that little story between Zimmer and Nolan? Yeah. I mean, look, basically, Christopher Nolan, famously now, handed Hans Zimmer a little bit of paper, only a few sort of sentences. And basically, you know, some, some it up by saying, I want you to spend one day writing a small bit of music, just one piece and, you know, no more than one day and then give me your results. And, you know, the, the premise was basically about a father and a son. And that was sort of, you know, and their relationship. And so that was, you know, nothing to do with science fiction or space or anything. It was really not much more than that. I think also, Nick, wasn't the, an important element that the father was leaving for work. So there was an element of distance like that the father was going away and how those feelings between the two characters were. Yeah. And so, you know, Zimmer basically produced this little piece of music. So, you know, an incredibly delicate, incredibly simple little melody. That, you know, grows and it sort of adds some strings and evolves a bit. And then very late in the piece, we did only about four minutes long in total. We get a sort of, I guess, a secondary idea, which is really important for the rest of the score, which goes like this. [Music] [Music] So there you have it. That little idea was really born out of that little sort of, I guess, not test, but assignment that Nolan gave to Zimmer. And that's the actual demo, isn't it, Nick? Like the, yeah, from the CD release, they've actually released, he's the demo that actually sent Christopher North. Yeah. So I assume that's, that's Hans Zimmer playing the piano and just worked up some strings and little synths around it. You know, as an idea, one thing that strikes me is this constant note in the middle, you know, in this case it's an E and just keeps, you know, plotting along in the middle, no matter what's happening around it, which is a really important thing to focus on as we kind of go through this score. And actually, it's probably worthwhile saying, Nick, that we would refer to this as a pedal note. And the reason why I want to bring that up is because we have said this in other episodes before, but a pedal note is, it gets its name because of the pedals on an organ. And of course, this score is famous for, well, one very big thing in organ, yeah, but would be the use of organ. But of course, we don't get it in the, we don't get it in
that demo which is really interesting. No, all you really get are the genesis of really the, you know, what is the main interstellar theme which is this. You know, just this sort of simple meandering little thing that almost feels a bit tentative, almost a bit like a sort of an ancient, or gogory and chant. Very simple. And it's very kind of static and quite different to the. I mean, there's no real kind of like cord underneath it. It's sort of like hanging in the middle of the register. And so it does feel like it is a bit sort of tiptoeing its way and trying to find itself. I mean, it's sort of like loneliness, depression, maybe. I mean, when you think of all the kind of films that something like that could score, yeah, it could totally be a film about, you know, a marriage breakup or someone who's lonely, like some small-scale, you know, movie. Don't you also think that what helps it along is that his use of space between the phrases so that you got done, done, done, done, and it just lets it hold for a little bit. And then it goes on. It's that use of space the whole time that I think both takes away from the forward momentum of it. So that's why it feels a bit static and certainly with the pedal note going constantly, it feels static. But that use of space, it's like there's a time to contemplate what has just happened in between those phrases, which I think really helps to sort of set that sort of lonely mood. And do you guys do you know what time signature this piece is in? Oh, no, I don't. I mean, some type of three, I guess. Yeah, it is in three. No one thinks of interstellar as like a wall. And it's not, you know, things can, we always talk about three, four being a wall. But let's face it, three, four, three, four time doesn't have to be the style of a wall. That's sort of doing it a disservice. But this other idea that comes in is really just a chord progression. There's no melody there. And that middle E pedal note is persistent. You know, and it just basically in in Zimmer's fashion, just builds and grows and adds layers. And that's kind of it as far as the demo goes. And I think it's important to also point out that with this demo, because it was written before the script was even finished. And surely for someone like Zimmer and look, most composers to be perfectly honest, this is an idea that is would be quite foreign to him. Like normally he would see the picture. And in fact, we've gone through it with Gladiator. He's also fairly well known for working directly with the director and the editor that when they're editing film, he's editing music all at the same time and they're going back and forth and things are influencing each other and there's a genuine sort of in real-time collaboration. This is one of those occasions where it's right me, the melody and his, you know, Christopher Nolan's also been very cagey about what the film is about. Didn't talk about it being a big sci-fi epic, didn't talk about time and all of those sorts of elements that perhaps would have influenced Zimmer into a very different place. He asked for something about a relationship. He got that. And then apparently, Christopher Nolan took that demo and played it constantly while he was writing the end of the script. And so that music was directly influencing the vibe of the film. And I think even Nolan has said in many interviews that when he heard that music, he then knew what the film was about and knew where the heart of the film lay. So yeah, such an important thing. And like I said, very different to what Zimmer normally does and probably Dan Reminderson of another very famous golden year's era of Hollywood being Mariconi who would write music before he saw a frame of "I think actually it's not so much Mariconi individually, is it is that that's just the European style of composing or it certainly was during that period being just totally different to Hollywood, Hollywood you write to the picture, Hollywood you almost write to the frame at that point in time." Yeah, Mariconi is a really famous example of a composer who, you know, for some of his, I think, certainly by the time of Once Upon a Time in the West, he was writing pretty much the music before the film was made. In fact, even there's a famous crane shot in Once Upon a Time in the West where the camera lifts up above a train station and reveals a town. And in fact, not only was the music written before that was shot, but the music was played on set two time with the camera movement. So they knew what they were going to get. But, you know, this is a different, different mode of filmmaking, which Hollywood, you know, has never really moved in that direction up until more recently perhaps with digital tools where a mock-up can be so easily created in one day for someone like Hans Zimmer. Yeah, but, you know, I think it's just delivered great results. And I think that Nolan is probably the best director for getting good work out of Zimmer, his best music is for Nolan's movies. And again, I think this is the best of them. I'm kind of curious, you know, in an alternate universe, what a tenant or Oppenheimer pardon me would have been in the hands of Zimmer. But I think what makes it different is, you know, we often talk about how Zimmer is able to achieve huge results by starting quiet and going loud. And certainly that's the case for Interstellar. And it's the case for time in Inception and the journey to the line from the Sin Red line, probably the most famous examples of a simple idea, which is taken to, you know, 11 out of 10 in terms of intensity. But I actually think that what is brilliant about this score is that it doesn't always start low in order to go high. It starts low because there is a power. There is a real emotional resonance in the music when it's quiet. And yes, we get loud and we'll hear plenty of loud. But even just hearing Zimmer playing that piano demo, you know, it works and it doesn't need to get louder. It's already a really striking bit of music at its kind of softest most intimate version. I've been trying to think over the last few days about what this melody means or how it's applied in the film. And to me, those two separate ideas that formed the bookends of this little demo, one being, you know, this sort of meandering, melody versus, I guess, you know, the more emotional chords. Kind of rising progression is to me, it's sort of, I'm kind of going to determine it's like discovery and hope because I feel the way that that first one is applied is very much about an sort of inquisitive scientific interest. It's about what is going on, what is out there, how do we do this? It's all about asking questions. And it's the fact that it really often has no base, makes it feel like it's always searching. And I think that really equates to sort of scientists looking for answers, looking for clues. And I just want to go through the score and just play a couple examples of this particularly interstellar melody, at least the first part of it and how it's applied. And the very first time we hear it in the film is when they capture this sort of flying drone that flies over their cornfields, once it's sort of downed and they sort of start sort of looking for it on the other side of the ocean there, we get this. [Music] So it's very similar to the demo version except all of a sudden we have different orchestrations, no piano anymore, what we get, woodwinds and actually organ. Now we, I guess this is probably a good time to talk about the organ and how what an inspired choice it was for this film. Zima specifically chose an organist who is the Cathedral organist at a church organist at a place called the Temple Church in London, guy called Roger Sayer. I'm not sure if there was an existing relationship with Zima or how that kind of came about, but it really was a choice that fundamentally gave this score a unique sound. And I mean when you think about the organ there's plenty of interviews with Hans about why he chose to use such a grand instrument, everything from like the organ pipes looking like engine thrusters on rockets to the fact that there's kind of like a human quality to the fact that it's really just pushing air in a film about space where there is no air out there you can't breathe, there's a lot of sort of interesting time.
and crossovers. But also, I think the actual organ as an instrument at suit Zimmer's style of writing so much because he loves layers and anyone who's sat in front of an organ knows that there's so many different colors you can achieve by using stops. I mean, Andrew, do you want to sort of explain the idea of organ stops to our listeners in case they are unaware? Well, firstly, if you've ever heard of the phrase, he or she pulled out all stops. What that means, obviously, you know, the phrase means that they've, you know, they've thrown everything out that they've done all they could in organ world, all of the different pipes and there are, you know, there are dozens and dozens and dozens of them, all different sizes. A lot of them are attuned to the same note and they have different qualities with them. So when a stop is pulled out or pushed in, and these are these, they almost look like little, if you can imagine, a set of drawers, like a little knob. They're like these little knobs that you pull in and out and push, push in and pull out and they activate various pipes within the organ. And so what you can end up getting is it's almost like a very, very old synthesizer in the way and that you can get these different qualities can come out on a single note by pulling and pushing in different stops. So like I said, activating different parts of the organ wind, of course, is going through air is going through the pipes and you can control all those different colors and the story goes with the recording session that Zimmer Nolan and the organist sat in the church for who knows how long. According to Wiki, at least they quote something along the lines of 45 separate sessions, which seems pretty ridiculous to me, but I do know it was a lot. And they spent a lot of that time not, you know, playing the music, but trying to find the right colors, you know. And I think because before this was really put together, I mean, Zimmer probably had very little, you know, real world experience with an actual organ outside of what organs sound like that we all know. Certainly, Christopher Nolan had very little experience with a real organ. And so the organist showed them over the course of these many, many sessions. This is what the organ can do. And so while playing a chord was pushing in all sorts of different stops and trying to find well, what's the right mellow or not mellow tone that we can use here that will give the right feeling and a huge amount of time and thought was put into that just by the use of the stops going in and out and changing, which pipes are activated for the same sort of piece of music. So that's a very long-winded answer. Long-winded. Long-winded. Long-winded. Like an organ. Oh, yeah, did it. Can I do a very, very quick slight complete tangent and just say that the other thing about organs, because I don't know when else we'll mention this on other scores, that organs are incredibly key to the history of film music in that before we had synchronized sound for film, you had a world that's a organs in picture palaces. There's still a couple left around the world, I mean more than a couple, but in Australia, I think there's one of the Darlinghurst Town Hall and it it goes beyond what Andrew has just said where yes, you can emulate the sound of a trumpet. Yes, you can get a kind of woodwindish sound, but the kind of world that's a organs. You can press buttons to activate actual snare drums that are in the back of the building or press a button and suddenly you're playing the organ, but actually it's the mallets hitting a zyler phone backstage or another piano or something like that is just the most amazing thing, a bit of technical musical achievement. I'm thinking of Bert at the beginning of Mary Poppins where he's got all the different instruments or these back. Yeah, basically, the feet and hands and whatever else up and there. Yeah, basically it's the version of that if you had time to pay a professional engineer to design it in a town hall or a picture palace. So they're just the most marvels machines. Anyway, sorry Nick, please go on. So basically it's it's Hans playing with the biggest batter since he could find. Yeah, pretty much. Later on once you know Cooper and his daughter Murph discovered this this sort of secret hidden NASA base Michael Cain that's the only impression I'll do. That's so good. Yeah, basically grabs Bruce Wayne Michael Cain, you know, Paul's Matthew McConaughey aside and you know basically says you have to trust me, you know, do you want to find out more and Matthew McConaughey keeps asking who's they who's they who's they again all this sort of questioning what's what's going on here. And we we hear this theme again this time a bit more involved with strings and stuff. [Music] You know and just simple touches like you know increasing the orchestration with strings having those little low ball you know little moments just to puncture the melody which goes on for several minutes. I'm just playing little sort of you know 30 40 second excerpts here Hans Zimmer builds entire cues you know long cues out of just repeating this stuff. Often layering them very subtly so they're not kind of growing into these big bombastic things you know like we we those cues we mentioned earlier but they're just creating this this sort of bed you know we've talked about it before Dan this sort of sonic landscape a bit like Bernard herner would often write it's it's texture it's just a it's a platform to set all the dialogue on and it's a little bit ambiguous which I think is completely the point of stuff like this. Okay even just I think you know I'm sure we'll talk more about the piano but I mean I just also really I love about you know the layering that he's doing here which is different to the layering layering that he's done in a lot of other films is that I feel like for a lot of this score and maybe it's led by the organ he's really embracing the acoustic possibilities of the instruments he's working with like with the piano that kind of. The thumb thud you know you just hear it ring out you hear you hear the hammer hit the string you know like I mean that's a that's a very silly thing to say but no no no no to me I feel like. What I really loved about early Hans Zimmer was that despite the fact that he was using a lot of high tech digital tools he clearly loved the acoustic possibilities of the orchestra you know some of those really big early action movies. They are owed to the crack that a trombone makes when you play it really loud you know that you know and and that's cool I was into that as well and I think you know it you know maybe as the Hans Zimmer sound became the Hans Zimmer sound you know perhaps something else was expected of him but I just feel like beyond the breathing that we're talking about as well like there's just a real enthusiasm in this score for you know here's a cool sound. That an instrument can make and you guys hear how you know the version we played at the start which was that lonely piano you know really has a certain. Intimate mood then that that next one where they find the drone you know it's far more inquisitive the war winds are sort of fluttering you know here with the big strings in that low piano kind of time you know has more kind of drama and gravitas so just by changing the orchestration he's he's getting maximum sort of efficiency out of this tune and. Also I feel we we haven't yet remarked on the fact that there's woodwinds in this. I mean believe or not this score is predominantly strings organ and woodwinds yeah there's maybe one or two cues where I can feel like I can hear some yeah it's a little bit of brass but it's it's not much yeah and I'm not even sure if they were recorded with real brass players I've seen some credits here where it's just like you know 42 woodwind players string orchestra and an organ yeah I just wonder if maybe that brass has been leading just with samples isn't effect yeah good thing so yeah really has a certain vibe to it doesn't it. I mean you know I mean I think you know for for people who are not film score buffs or long term out of the score listeners which probably say that one of the reasons this is so remarkable is because Hansen but just doesn't really use woodwinds very often in his soundtracks certainly not. Over the last ten years in fact they've sort of disappeared really from from a lot of his soundtracks but here he is using them wonderfully effectively it is you know to the long term. Zimmer listener I think it's such a breath of fresh air not to use the the wind pun again but it's you know it's just it's it's it's it gives the score an element that is yeah I really enjoyed listening to. About halfway through the film we kind of meet the adult MIRF played by Jessica Chastain and there's this scene where it's almost like she's starting to take over the research from Michael Cain's character of Dr. Brand. And here this this melody comes again it's it's quite high and delicate in the piano but it has a slight sort of positivity to it.
"I'm not a child, I'm a child." "I'm not a child, I'm a child." [Music] And what's so interesting is that the first half of that is sort of a bit more positive and it's because he actually changes the harmony slightly. Instead of that kind of monotonous E in the middle, he makes it an A. [Music] Oh, sort of it's got a bit of a lift and then it goes back to the E. [Music] And all of a sudden it's a bit tense again, you know. Just that little subtle shift of. It's like between major to minor, isn't it? Really, I mean, even though it's not technically that because it doesn't. It never plays as a result of this. There's no thirds. There's no thirds to create, you know. You know, major minor or an E, you know, minor. It's very kind of sparse and open. But yeah, that little shift out that was really interesting there. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Now, he does also introduce a counter-mality to this thing. And this where we learn, again, in the scene between MIRF and Dr. Brand or the old Dr. Brand. When he's kind of on his deathbed almost, saying basically, you know, I failed. What I thought I was working on, I couldn't do. I couldn't work it out. And all of a sudden, this theme has this really creepy counter-mality coming in. See if you consider here it. [Music] [Music] [Music] I mean, it almost sounds like the doctor has flatlined at the end. You know, there's this sort of this, whatever he's telling her, has grave implications for humanity. And then, "Buh!" You know, just down to a single high, high sort of almost like a sine wave or some synth tone. You almost can't identify what instrument it is and that learn the piano. And to me, what's so remarkable about that is that just having that melty with this creepy line. And I kind of, I'd no-tested it down before, so I was curious to see if there was a pattern. And it really kind of was, or it sort of lasted like seven and a half bars and then sort of cycled. [Music] And it gets lower, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So just adding this kind of creepy thing, you could make any melody, you know, sound horrible. Like if I played the force theme, you know, just going to go back to the Star Wars. [Music] You know, that's that little interstellar line underneath it. It's just, it's almost like a serial music. And I don't mean Kellogg's. You know, I mean, serial music is sort of, you know, one of those. Today's episode, bro! Yeah, yes. That's the frosted flakes of music right there. Serial music is, you know, a technique that was popular, oh, I guess still is in some ways, in some circles. You know, middle of the 20th century, where basically you'd have all 12 notes of the scale. [Music] You know, played in some random order before they cycle again. Now this isn't that, but it kind of has an illusion to that, where there's no kind of rhyme, reasonable pattern. It's just really forming a little creepy entity. And it's extremely, extremely unnerving, unsettling, isn't it? Can be used really cool, though. This is again a complete tangent, but my favorite serial film music is the taking of Pelham 1,2,3 David Shies opening theme. Which is jazz funk, but the main melody is a serial. it's a serial row. A tone row? Yeah, a tone row. And it just sounds awesome, anyway, sorry. Now, you know, the polar opposite, well, not the polar opposite to that, but the complement to that sort of interstellar theme is, you know, this idea of hope. Or maybe it's family, I'm not quite sure. And to me, this is really the thing that is gravitated with, you know, all those people out there who do covers of interstellar. It's the heart and soul of this film. And we hear it really early, almost before that other melody I just played, in that magnificent cornfield chase sequence. And it's this bit here. [Music] [Music] [Music] It's, yeah, a really beautiful piece of music. But, I mean, gosh, it is, it's so simple. It's four chords, you know, it's starting on an F, moving up. [Music] And then back down, you know, and it just does it over and layers and adds interesting textures and whatnot. And, you know, I was even just taking the basic elements of these chords. Again, really got to focus that he has this pedal E hanging on in the middle of it. Because that first chord, it's an F major seven. So it's not. [Music] It's this. You know, and all it does, it just, it takes that, that top F and just raises of lowers it ever so slightly to create a sort of, you know, I mean, it's major seventh chords and an interesting thing. Because there, there's a sort of melancholy sweetness to them. It's a way of just sort of softening a major chord, or, you know, a normal major chord. And, you know, a lesser musician might just do, you know, simple stock chords by going F-G-A minor. [Music] But, something's missing. That, that sounds like, I know, some uplifting gospel, something or other, you know. By having the E always present in the chords, it makes this an F major seven. It makes this an E minor with a G in the bass. So it's still a minor chord. Then an A minor chord. And then we go back to an E minor, but the top goes upwards. [Music] And that starts again. And that's simple, you know, it's just sweetening of those chords, you know, and some interesting inversions there. Gives it sort of, it's melancholy flavor to me. And it's really simple, but very important distinction for this harmonic progression, which really is, you know, the heart and soul of this film. I mean, I, I, I love that it doesn't resolve. I think that's a very important thing. It doesn't feel like it's ever at home base the entire time. And I think that is what helps it move forward. I mean, in the idea you're calling this the hope, Q, I guess, or the hope, a melodic idea. You know, by not resolving, it is hope, you know, we don't know if it's going to be successful. It's always reaching for something. And then the melody is reaching, you know. Yeah, the melody that, yeah, is trying to get there. Where's it trying to get to? And it always falls down. You know, it's sometimes it even, it gets close. And then, and then falls away again. So whatever they're aiming for, the stars, and you plan it, whatever, you know, just an idea that they're aiming for. de i mi fort, never quite gets there. and the chords. in their rising nature and then falling back, yeah, totally does that as well. I think as well, this is where Zima can be start to be placed within, I guess, composes, contemporaries, or perhaps a little earlier than him. But people, I've seen a few reviews of this make comparisons to Philip Glass, especially with all those arpeggios in there, I guess, as soon as you move into arpeggio territory, that's Philip Glass's copyrighted field. But the minimalist, some of which of including Philip Glass, but also Michael Reimann, have done music for film. I don't think that Zima is deliberately, I saw one review that was kind of like other, the stories are homage to Quayana's cutsy, which I don't think it is. Quayana's cutsy also involves organs and arpeggios, that's probably about as far as it goes. But I think that perhaps for the first, one of the first times, you really, I think, you can start to see how Zima is really working in, it almost sounds like I'm putting him down, I'm not really, but the kind of the ideas of music, the ideas of the craft of music, rather than working to picture, working to what will work well with the drummer of a film. And it's very entrenched, as well. Glass was a pioneer, but this idea of taking, especially amongst pianists, like Ludovico Inaudy, is a classic example of taking a piano idea and then repeating it and just cycling the chords for entire cue or entire piece. You know, it's a popular thing, and I mean, I don't know who Zima, I'm sure, has a lot to answer for, but is influential, huge influential in this kind of trend in film music. And directors love it, it's very simple, it's direct, I mean, it's everything that people both love and love about Hans Zimmer is the simpleness and the directness. And it's easy to edit as well as a film editor, music editor, you know, if you need to cut. It's a godsend, isn't it? Cut eight seconds from this well, you know, you just cut out some bars and cycle slightly differently, which truly is, I think, one of the actual material practical reasons that means that this is very popular. It doesn't also tie in perfectly with just popular music of now. Yeah, dance music, lots of looping music, you know, electronic music. Well, to that end, actually, I think that actually the real culprit, if you want to call it that, is actually technology. I mean, I think that the door, there's a researcher here in Australia, Michael, somebody I've forgotten his name. Anyway, he's an academic, he writes about the hegemony as in the ruling, is there a very academic word for me, the dominance, I guess, the dominance of the door, the DAW, though. Thanks, Dr. Golding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my PhD is finally paid off. But basically, yeah, like digital audio work sessions, like logic or pro tools or whatever, they work in loops. That is the easiest way to work with these programs. They are built to be worked in with loops. You take a little section, you repeat it, you know, in logic, it's literally the easiest thing to do. You grab a little, a little section and, you know, you don't even have to hold down a button, your mouse transforms to the loop, loop simple and you just drag it, you know, for as long as you want. And so I think the fact that most of modern music, whether it be, you know, dance music as you wrote, as you wrote, as you said, and true, popular music of a lot of types, but film music as well or all based around loops, I think it's because the tools encourage that kind of writing. Probably the most meamed, shall I say, seen in this film. And I mean, look, it's a beautiful, I don't want to make fun of it because it is a beautiful and very poignant scene, is that one where they come out of basically, you know, a 23 year gap after being on the planet with the giant waves and they get a whole flood of messages coming through and they basically get to see his, or Matthew McConaughey, see his children talking to him, you know, over the years growing up, having children, their children dying, all these, you know, life events. And the music that was put under this wasn't specifically written for it. It was just a little bit of this sort of hope theme or hope chord progression that Zimmer had done on the organ. And the actual, I think the file name was called organ doodle or organ variation or something. And Nolan put it under and it was, you know, in his words, the final piece of the puzzle for this beautiful sequence. And it is extremely simple. It's that little rising motif at the top of the organ, you know, soon accompanied by this sort of rising bass note. [Music] God, it could almost be like music for a eulogy, you know, it really has that funereal, you know, Dave lived a long life. You know, you could, you could have totally imagined it. Just a simple, unobtrusive, you know, little progression. But again, I don't want to make light of it because it is so simple and direct and powerful, you know, and it works. It is also like just to talk more about the film for a moment. It is, I mean, it is so, it is so profoundly moving. I'm still moved thinking about it. Like the idea of accidentally, yeah, like, yeah, loss is the right word. I mean, maybe that's why, yeah, I'm thinking of the eulogy thing, but you're right. It is, yeah, the loss of the parenting of everything there. Yeah, of losing 25 years of your children's life and seeing that play back to you almost in fast motion. It is, I remember, yeah, really being moved by. It's the kind of thing that sci-fi, I suppose, is uniquely placed to kind of explore. I mean, that I think has resonance probably with parents. I've certainly viewed that scene slightly differently on the rewatch this time that I did when I saw it 10 years ago or whatever. Yeah, so it has resonance for people in their real lives, but at the same time, it's a science fiction concept that can only be achieved in make believe. But you go down, like, oh, another YouTube video of that particular cue, and there was just like, you know, every time this scene gets me, or, you know, my life changed from this moment onwards forever. Like, you know, really profound comments by people. You know, again, it's sort of, it's quite magical that cinema can do that. And it is the ultimate expression of cinema, you know, music and images. I mean, it's a roller coaster, what happens itself. I mean, it starts off as, of course, it's a little bit sad, it's very sad that they've missed all of this time, but you don't quite grasp it. And even when the film starts, he's sort of laughing going, oh, it's my kids, you know, how wonderful is this? He becomes a grandfather, and he's like, it's happy tears. And then in the very next message, he's grandson dies. And he's not a grandfather anymore, you know, and like, it's just an unbelievable roller coaster. And I think it's only then, would that turn happens where, you know, you realize that I think there's something about the becoming a grandfather. And then I get you, you're still a grandfather, but you know what I mean, like that, that switch there really hammers at home. And I think within that queue to get it back to the music, Nick, I still feel that ticking clock is there, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, there's a passing of time. Yeah. You can imagine like a stopwatch, you know, where it's going, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, you know, like it, you can hear seconds, years, months, whatever going past. And it's the sound of regret and, and, and loss. Then of course it finishes with that with Murf, of course, with her message at the end. And I think the finality of it is that her saying, well, I've given up hope too. And so therefore, this is my last message, you know, it's, yeah, never stayed up. But look, you know, at the very end, when towards the very end where Cooper and Murf have what they call this sort of quantifiable connection where he's in that sort of tesseract thing, I'd dig Google what a tesseract was. Just watch a Marvel film. I can't. I was, I was referred to it as like that weird space library thing.
his end. Anyway, yeah, when he sort of manages to kind of connect and talk to Murph through this thing, it's all of a sudden this thing in this chord progression is far more hopeful and just have a listen to the piano motoring that going on here because it basically Murph then gets given this data from the wormhole or the black hole or whatever it is that she then uses and works out a whole new equation that we'll save humanity. And it sounds like this chord progression has been injected with, you know, 1.21 gigawatts of plutonium energy and the pianos are sort of, yeah, really going to work. [Music] You know, that really percussiveness of the piano really takes it out of mournfulness and loss and a threat into suddenly optimism, you know, which is essentially the same four chords going up and down and how that little thing can just transform it. And there is something scientific discovery about piano arpeggios, isn't there? You would probably find something quite similar in the theory of everything. Yeah, it's about the same thing. And James Hona's score to a beautiful mind also. Another one. Yeah, yeah. It has a lot of ears. It's like calculations being done. It's like, it's almost like a little Cassio. Doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the kind of beauty of it as well, you know, with the piano. But I have to say, despite saying earlier that I didn't think there was truly very much Philip Glass. I've got to say that the one, two, three, four, five, six, arpeggio on the piano. That's quite the hours. Yeah. Doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie doopie. And then very into the film, you know, this is the piece of music that really, you know, leads us out when they again have that connection between Cooper and Murf. She's now in the hospital as an old woman and she says, you know, you have to go. And she says, where? And she says, you know, to find brand. So go back out and find Anne Hathaway, who's somewhere on that planet. And this music, you know, really has its final well up of emotion and sort of leads us out. And it's a really, yeah, really beautiful, optimistic way to end the film. But still not, you know, it still hasn't found. It's still asking a few questions. And again, it's those two rhythmic elements, you know, there's three really. There's the slow grand sort of statements of these chords. Then there's a piano, you know, rising up. And then you got that kind of little organ thing going along the top. And together, you know, they're kind of creating multiple layers of rhythm. You kind of got slow, medium tempo, then super fast on the top. You know, and it's just really clever way of layering and creating that sort of excitement. But still the broad drama. What is it about what we're hearing? What is the word I'm looking for? It's, I don't know, it's like this little bit of anxiety as well. I do get that where it's, it feels hopeful. But it's like, I feel stressed. You know, like is everyone going to be all right? I don't think they're going to be all right. You know, like it, but maybe they are. I don't know. There's this element to it. So the chaos it doesn't resolve. Maybe that's what it is. I wonder if also the organ, like that fast-noodling, you know, is really reminiscent of those old, like, you know, that bark to Carter and Fugel. [MUSIC] You know, which isn't relaxing music. It feels like, again, there's like that kind of, that E, which doesn't move anywhere, and just things moving on top that want to go somewhere, but you're being held back. So it's, I think there's maybe, I don't know, something in the organ that's making your heart race and creating that sense of anxiety, but the chords are like, oh, isn't this beautiful? Yeah, it's life, Andrew. That's every relation that's headed ahead, I'm sure. And you know about my relationship. Well, it's life. It's life, you know, in everything that has to offer. I actually think it's quite a similar technique purely from it, I guess, like, structural perspective. I guess is the end of Inception, which ends with the cliffhanger of Will the top fall over from spinning. And you know, that similar kind of, I'm pretty sure the music kind of reaches the end of one of its cycles and just kind of stops and leaves us, you know, with those open questions. I mean, that's just, you know, I mean, I think there actually are probably quite a few similarities between Inception and Interstellar, broadly, aside from the being both excellent Hans and Miss Gaw's for film director, by Christopher Nolan beginning with I.N. But also like from exactly what you were saying, you know, Inception is also built around these big, you know, big, beefy, long note phrases that kind of breathe with layers of, you know, don't, don't, don't, and then on top, I mean, that's how rhythmically Inception works and kind of how this is working as well. And look, that's, you know, that's really all there is to that kind of idea, really all there is to it. That's really, you know, some sort of an hour on it, so it feels like it's a lot. That really sums up that, that main interstellar idea. But there are a couple of other little musical ideas which he's put in. And one, I'm going to call it the gravity idea. We only hear it a few times, but it really, it seems to crop up anytime they talk about gravity. And the first time is when Coup comes back to his farmhouse and all his tractors have sort of like stopped working and they've all kind of arrived back at his farmhouse sort of together, like they've been affected or pulled by, you know, some gravitational pull. And then we go up into Mervs Room and we see that really strange array of dust on the floor. And we get this music. [Music] It's eerie, isn't it, Nick? It really is. And again, deceptively simple, you know, it's just this sort of little kind of C major chord held just down in the middle and then you get, you know, these sort of meandering lines are over the top, very simple. But to me, you know, there's no bottom end. So it really feels like it's up and floating. You know, when we're talking about an idea of gravity weight or weightlessness, if there is no gravity, it's an interesting concept. And that really sinewy synth sort of half strings, half synthesizer line at the top there. It feels like it's slowly being pulled. You know, this way or that way. Well, obviously there's two notes that it's targeting the melody. Like, ni-hi-di-di, that's the first note. Sorry, ni-ni-ni, whatever it goes to at the end there. Yeah, it's like, it's a there, it's a there. Fishing around there. Yep. And then, yeah, it's our three notes. Yeah, which is a three notes, it's targeting. And it's like, we're setting up a C major bass, but the melody is searching for the whole bass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, that's why, I mean, I don't think that's a mistake, compositionally. I don't think you just come across that. When you think about the idea of gravity, I don't know, it's, I think within the picture it's, there is a little bit of danger. It's like, well, what is this thing that is happening? And we're not quite certain what it is, it could be anything. And it's interesting that the melody is unsure too, but it's landing on quite an understandable thing. Yeah. But it's hidden, right?
So gravity is somewhat understandable in terms of our knowledge of science. But we don't quite know what it is either, so it's like searching for it. It feels very Zimmer, this particular composition where he's put a lot of thought into how it's constructed. Yeah, but it's also, as I was saying before, it's very restrained. There's not really the bombastic version of this where the low end turns up. Because I mean, I understand what you mean and that it's very similar in that there's probably an idea at the heart of it more than anything. I think if you played this piece of music to me and I didn't know this score, I don't know that I would say, "Oh, that's obviously Hans Zimmer." Oh, no, no, I don't mean that it's obvious him, obviously sounding like him. I mean that he is probably as good as really any composer. He could write the thesis on most of the melodies that he ever writes on how he came up with it and what he was thinking behind it. And he can, you know, there's an entire masters to be done on the two notes of some melody that he's put together. He's very micro with the way that he thinks about his compositions. I wouldn't say that all about an awful lot of this score. I'd say it feels far more from the heart and far more from, "I've got a feeling and I want to try to convey that." This one just, I don't know, feels a little more constructed. It feels like, "Oh, there's a cool little idea and I can explain why I'm going above the note and below the note and landing there." And, you know, I don't know, it just feels Zimmer in that way. And I think the only other thing I was going to say is that you talked about it as the gravity idea. And I've actually seen some other people refer to it as being associated with the Murphy Cooper as their relationship, the father and daughter. No, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, the only reason I, I think it's more gravity is because the second time we sort of hear it is when they're entering the endurance and, you know, that sort of space station. And when they all kind of, basically they get kind of like released, you know, when you could have arrived and they were all kind of floating around the cabin. And there's a real just sort of wallowing in the beauty of, of weightlessness. And even the progression changes to have a G bass for a second. It almost feels like something you'd see in Stanley Crubit, 2001. It feels like a very beautiful, you know, has sort of blue, danube-esque kind of beauty to it. [Music] Yeah, I really love that. Yeah, just such a lovely little striking cue. Feels like a little bit of a raised eyebrow on the original, you know, an addition of elegant like eye. What if we went over here? Yeah. I think it's totally a 2001 reference though. Like, the, I mean, you look at the way the spaceship is designed, the endurance and its docking pod bay thing. It's a circle and like a wagon wheel almost. I think this particular cue starts when they start up the spinning as well. Yeah. And they first get into it and they're floating around because, you know, there is no gravity. They create their artificial gravity by getting the thing to spin. And of course, it really harkens back to, you know, the docking scene. Yeah. You know, where we've got the space station slowly spinning around. And the ship sort of turning with it slowly as it goes in. It's a similar idea as well. There's a ship creating its own gravity. And I think there are these little subtle nods both from Nolan as well in terms of design, as well as Zimmer's sort of nods to it. And if you don't mind, Nick, I've got the blue Danube here. I mean, it's very, very different, but there is something about it. Well, I mean, before you play, I mean, just the fact that that chord goes from, you know, a C to like a G. You know, it sort of has that progression. You know, that's the two chords of the blue Danube. You know, it goes from a C major to a G major. All that. There's that one to five harmonic progression. So even just in the chord structure of that sequence, you know, there's a link, but I'd love to know more. I don't think I have much more other than the beginning of the cue, which isn't that part. I mean, that part is absolutely the bit that everyone knows and those chords are there. Where it begins though, there's only reason why I want to play the beginning of the piece is it's just slower. And so there is a chance to at least hear a similarity. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Yeah. So I mean, like I said, there's not a direct, you can't put them side by side and go, oh my god, he's taking the blue Danube. But there's those major chords, there's even like a little bit of danger at the beginning of the blue Danube, not though, that was ever written for that reason, of course. But within the context of 2001, there's a little bit of drama as they come into the space station. So I think that it is a intentional, but very beautifully crafted homage to 2001 in that section. And certainly, I mean, if you say organs in space, the other film that comes to mind instantly is 2001 with the opening using Strasse's "Also Spraxarathustra" glorious bit of organ at the end there. And I mean, you know, in a way, I mean, you know, like none of this is shocked to anybody, I don't think, but you know, interstellar in 2001 structurally, you know, as well like probably the thing that critics and probably a lot of moviegoers had the most problem with was the the the rug pull, you know, a bit of thing that it has at the end with the circular time logic and we give spoiler warnings for this, right? But they're the love, love being the fourth dimension kind of thing that I think, you know, certainly a lot of the people that I've spoken to have more trouble with that considering the pretty hard sci-fi bent that it takes otherwise, which is similar in a way to 2001 kind of ending with the psychedelic trip that is the last sort of 20 minutes of that movie, but, you know, I love them both. I think they both work out. I'm a fan of the ends of both of these movies. Perhaps 2001 is much more opaque and so therefore has the artistic benefit of the doubt of well, we're not really quite sure what Kubrick is trying to say here, where it is Christopher Nolan making a blockbuster in the year 2014, perhaps has no such luxury of making an ending that people can go what about. Don't you think also that he's intentionally or otherwise, but I certainly felt it on my first watching that they're absolutely banking on the how the computer, you know, so they've got their artificial intelligence, the robot on which is very such an interesting sort of artificial intelligence just in its design aesthetic. But you know, throughout the film, is this thing going to kill everyone? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we've watched too much 2001. Of course, it's fine, but you know, there's all these little bits in there. That same, you know, like the capital letter abbreviation, they've got one more letter in Tostello for their robots than Hal. Oh, right, sure. Yeah, I mean, why are you looking at me like I'm just said something completely ridiculous. Taz, Hal, what's the other robot called? Case. Case, yeah, exactly. Is that a Kip after the scientist as well? Yeah, well, I mean, basically, I'm really, they couldn't go backwards more through the alphabet like they did for 2001. You know, you know, you know, I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that.
You know that story, that's how they came up with hell. Because it's one one step backwards from my BM. Oh. H-A-L. H comes before I. A becomes before B. Yeah, how you yeah, you get it. Yeah. See, I saved it. I saved it. We did it. Speaking of acronyms, when Cooper spells out the words stay, near the end of the film, through the Tesseract, Dan, you mentioned that some people have talked about this sort of idea, this musical idea that we're listening to being as maybe between Cooper and Murf. I mean, she literally says, you know, it's not a ghost. It's gravity. So, you know, it's almost like gravity is the connection between the two of them. So I think there's definitely something to be said about that. But look, let's go on to another idea, which is actually the very first musical idea we hear in the film. And I mean, trying to rack my brains about what I think this one means. And to me, I've sort of, it really feels like, I mean, first of all, this sort of musical idea that I'm about to play for you is very, very much reaching up and trying to grab it something. So to me, it's very much sort of, you know, whether it's destiny or the idea of humanity, you know, it's very existential. And I'll play you how we first hear it, which is very, very high and very quiet on the organ. [MUSIC PLAYING] And there's beautiful sort of rustling of the wind. It's a lovely effect, isn't it, really? Yeah. Yeah. It's to the breathing of this goal. Yeah. But, you know, it's just this high, kind of, you know, high C. [MUSIC PLAYING] And then it does a minor version. [MUSIC PLAYING] So, you know, instantly, the idea is sort of things could work out OK or things could work out. [LAUGHTER] Even just by that simple sort of transition between major and minor. And then as the cue goes on, we get like a sort of a complementary idea, again, really listen out for that major followed by a minor version. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] So all of a sudden, that kind of high pedal note we had is suddenly relegated to the very bottom of the organ. And then it's almost like little long cuckoos, you know, like you're kind of sending out little pings into space and they come back. [MUSIC PLAYING] And that one's like a bad one. [MUSIC PLAYING] So just this, yeah, this simple idea. [MUSIC PLAYING] You know, it's sort of reaching up, but it's falling back. And it really, it feels like reaching up into the sonic pings of deep space. And to me, this cue is only a teaser, because to me, one of the most emotional bits of this film is when Cooper actually leaves his daughter for good, like that first time when she's a kid in the farmhouse. And it just builds and it grows. And she's pleading with him, stay, once he realizes that he's made this decision to go. And you'll feel how the phrase can feel quite optimistic when it's in the major key. And then so, so mournful and full of loss. And again, that thing of regret almost when it just changed that single note into a minor version. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] And this builds and builds. And then we get this huge, huge kind of version where he finally drives off. And it's full of as much angst as you can get. But again, really pay attention to how it makes you feel when it's both major and then minor. And then at the very end, when it is the final major version, and we cut to the scene of the ship taking off. So it becomes this part leaving her, but also part launching off into this magnificent voyage. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] It's so good. It's great, isn't it? Is that one of the ones where there's brass, maybe? Yeah, it feels like this is sort of descending. Bo-bo-bo-bo. It also feels like there's trumpets going, [BLUHUH] Well, I mean, the way that the track when it gets to that really loud bit is produced. It almost feels like I struggle to make it out because everything is so loud that it's doing that funny thing that really loud mixes do, which is it's making everything kind of harder to hear, like harder to pick out that, you know, like I sort of can't almost even hear the strings quite as well because everything is so loud that the frequencies are getting smooshed together. Yeah, it's very possible that's a frequency thing. And in fact, the organ has been used for God hundreds of years by composers, where you can take various, once again, this idea of the stops and the different pipes and so on, you can take different frequencies within the organ and make it sound like brass instruments and flutes and all sorts of other things. And it is possible that because of all of the madness going on at the same time combined with strings combined with everything else, that in fact, yeah, I'm starting to hear brass where there is no brass. It's just we're hitting the same frequencies and the same qualities. And yeah, I mean, I look at, there's two things that I want to say about that really quickly. Firstly, when you were talking about that minor major thing, Nick, you know, I think it's this particular version of it is so hypnotic and I find myself almost not quite conducting along with the music, but like flowing. I feel my body sighing when it first hits that minor version in the build that you just did there, where I'm like, I know it's coming, I'm anticipating it. And I'm just waiting for it to have that slight tonal shift when it hits that. And I think, you know, it is, it is so slow and drawn out that it really, you know, it's coming, but yeah. Yeah, it's so effective with that very simple technique that you were talking about. And I also have to say, I think for the rest of my life, I will remember being side stage with, you know, our live performance of this, with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra at the Sydney Opera House when they were playing this exact bit of music and the lighting Andrew can probably talk a bit about this better, but essentially there were stars that were raising that were slowly lifting across the stage, you know, like a little. little dots. Yeah, little little pin, pin gobo pin lights that were in the in through the fog. Andrew's the lighting expert. And I didn't know this, but and I don't know maybe I'm spilling industry secrets by saying this, but but side stage they have little screens where you can see the audience's faces, not all the audience, but some sections of the audience are, I don't know why, probably just to keep the performers in touch with some what's happening. And I still remember when this was happening, there was a young woman, I mean, I say, I'd like, probably like 25, 30, something like that. Sitting square within the middle of the view point while Nick was conducting. And just her face looking up at these lights, these pins, these stars going up across the wall of the opera house with this music slowly hypnotic building and building and building. It was honestly, I was like, that is the surest indication that we've just completely blown somebody's mind like her face was just, just, you know, her mind was exploding with music. You know, like that's what it looked like on her face. And to me, I think that's what I associate this music with now. And it just emphasizes how hypnotic and if effectual this technique of Zimaz is at this point, this slow build of very simple ideas just being taken from low intensity to high intensity over a period of time, it just works. And almost the exact same queue is used right towards the end of the film where it's just and hathaway brand and Cooper. And they're basically doing that final launch into Gagantua. You know, again, it sort of, it has this like the stakes are so high here. It's basically, you know, it's taking a really, you know, a giant leap for mankind. You know, first he's leaving his daughter, you know, what a hard thing to do to go off and try and save humanity. And then at the end, he's leaving, you know, kind of, you know, his one companion to go off into a wormhole. What a guy. Well, I mean, it's interesting that you say that Nick because I think the other film that's a really interesting parallel to this is Closing Counts of the Third Kind and Steven Spielberg has said repeatedly throughout his career that he regrets making the end of that film where Richard Dreifers figured his character's name leaves. Right. That's right. Roy Neary. Yes, leaves his young family to go off and have an alien adventure. Spielberg says he didn't have kids in Spielberg, didn't have kids at that point in his life. And if he had, he would never have made that ending. So I think that's a really interesting, um, poor decomparest. And yeah. And don't you think like a masterstroke of that cue, at least the first time we hear it, is the choice, because if you think about the entire film, it's actually quite a lot of film has happened by the time they get up to the, the spaceship that had the launch and so on. There's a few things have happened by then. Certainly the end of the first act if nothing else. That we go to silence. Now, I don't, it is actually total silence for, for some seconds. And we cut back and forth between outside the ship and inside the ship. And inside the ship, there's no music anymore, very simple, folly sound effects. People just rustling and, and the odd piece of dialogue. It cuts to outside and there's zero sound whatsoever, no ambient sound at all. And am I correct? At least it was the first time I noticed. It's pretty much the first time in the whole film where there isn't any score or there isn't piles of like background noise like the wind from the, the dust storms coming through. It's like the first time your ears get a rest is after that massive moment and it just rings at the end and then it's just silence. And then they're in space. You know, and now we, I don't know, does the danger start? Is the danger over? It's just a really interesting choice that they take that long to get rid of any real music. Well, don't we hear solo piano when we arrive in space playing that same idea Nick or is that later? It is a little bit later but there is yeah that gorgeous moment where you just see, I'm sat in or something yet in his 20 spacecraft and there's the yeah the most delicate, fairly close-might, you know, normal sounding piano as opposed to a heavily processed one. It's one of my favourite cues in the whole film. Just in complete contrast to everything else and basically everything else that Hans Emre has ever written. Just this piano doing a very soft little thing. [Music] Just going back to the loudness for just one final second, the one other thing that I wanted to mention is that this film still and Christopher Nolan as a filmmaker gets a lot of complaints about the music being too loud. And to the point where for Interstellar I believe a number of movie theatre chains had to put up signs as you went into the movie saying yes we know you can't really hear the dialogue at certain points. That's not us. That was a deliberate decision by the filmmakers. Please don't complain and ask for your money back because that's not us. Much in the same way as for a certain scene in the last Jedi they had to say this film contains a scene of eight seconds of silence. Please don't get up and complain that the sound system is broken. But I the one of the reasons that I think it's worth mentioning is because you know and this being a particularly loud cue where you know especially at the end the finale that you mentioned before where we have the second kind of version of this ultra loud performance of it. It's very clear you know you can't really make out the dialogue certainly you know a lot of the time in the initial run. This is something that I think is really unique to Nolan as well as a filmmaker is that he he says it is a deliberate choice and who we to disagree I don't think you know he has a lot. It's not like it's just one film and I'll tell everyone that's what I meant to do. He does it all the time. You know all the way dating back to the Dark Knight Rises and all those great lines that that Bane delivered. But I just I just I you know a lot of people hate it. I don't because firstly I think that music is absolutely fantastic and an essential element of the film going experience and in many respects music tells you more than dialogue does anyway so great that we finally have a filmmaker that that recognizes that but secondly isn't it wonderful to have a filmmaker who recognizes the kind of sonic potential of sound rather than simply inform you here's what they're saying to each other. Yeah I mean I think it's a wonderful choice. I love it as you do. I just think modern audiences any audiences quite frankly I just not used to not hearing the words you know like there must be something wrong if I can't hear what they've said. I've missed the most important line in the whole film now I have no idea what's going on. Yeah Alfred Hitchcock is a director one of the few major directors who straddle both the silent and the sound eras of filmmaking he made both types of movie. He constantly used to complain his favorite phrase that for this was pictures of people talking in other words films that gave up the visual art of filmmaking that was so powerful in the silent era only to put a camera in front of people to deliver dialogue because that's that's a sound allowed them to do. I love that. And so you know like maybe people are just too used to pictures of people talking. We have basically in my view one idea which we haven't talked about and that is of time which is a pretty common thread in Nolan films. It's the elephant in the room Nick this entire film every element is dripping in time. And there are three kind of sequences which are extremely tense and they're all sort of set against the backdrop of you know die consequences and pretty much of time running out. And Zimmer really makes use of this concept in his score. The first bit is that wonderful credible planet where they think they're on that's sort of covered in water but they think there's mountains in the distance and it turns out they're giant waves which you know blew my mind when I first saw this like oh it was such an epic moment. But have a listen to what the music is doing when this cue starts up. You know they're not there for a picnic. It really is telling you that there's stakes at play and it's this kind of slow you know essentially sounds like a ticking clock. And what happens throughout the cue is that it slowly gets faster and faster as the stakes are mounting and then when they realize that the mountains are in fact giant waves about to come and sweep them away. And Zimmer brings it this really should have big powerful chord which is actually the first in those series of sort of hopeful chords that we've you know been hearing through the score.
You know, it's them, but they're spread out really, really fast. You almost sort of don't realize that they are the same chords. But have a listen to the speed up in the tempo of the music. [Music] [Music] You know, don't you, don't you almost feel that those chords the way there's like whatever they've done sonically with the process, and almost feels like the pit of your stomach is going in. It comes back up. [Music] I mean, if I said the other music was anxiety-inducing, I mean this is the most anxiety-inducing. I mean, you got the ticking clock. We're running out of time. Oh my god, it's getting faster. That pit of your stomach sort of, you know, dread comes in. And I feel like waves is like here's the swell. Yeah, yeah, totally. Oh, here comes the next one. You know, you're on some really slow roller coaster that just sort of takes you up and then drops you back down, and then it up, and then woooah! And of course, he's making a point here in that this is the planet where time moves slowly, I guess. Move slowly, yes. One hour equals seven years on Earth, roughly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, it has. Is that correct maths, even? Well, let me, would you like me to do some maths? I've prepared a segment for you guys ahead of this. Are you ready for the segment? I'm always ready for a segment. One plus two equals fun. It's maths with Andrew. So there we go. Everyone's favorite part about the score. It has been a tradition over at least 35 episodes, Dan. Every episode we have, as you know, and all of the listeners at home know, there is always a maths with Andrew, and of course, we are here again, with episode 36 maths for Andrew. Oh, maths for Andrew. Math for Andrew. I know the segment so well that I've forgotten what it's called. It's been so long since the last episode that I'm just going to have to take your word for it. I can't remember what we used to do. So, sure, sure, maths with Andrew. It is maths with and for Andrew. There we go. That's what she's saying. Okay, so let's actually do some maths here, because I read when I was doing a little bit of research on this, and of course, re-listening to the soundtrack watching the film again. It is such a no-vert part of the film where you hear that ticking clock, and it's obvious if you don't look into it or think about it too hard, that of course this is a moment where they are running out of time, time has a real consequence, et cetera, et cetera, time dilation, and so on. And what they very casually quote for us is some actual maths within the film, where they say that because of the time dilation, because of the gravity, and therefore the relativity effect of time, 60 minutes or one hour equals approximately seven years on Earth. So we get that sort of throw on out there, and of course, you know, spoilers, they're on the planet, some things happen, they're forced to stay there for a lot longer than 60 minutes, and therefore a whole bunch of time has passed, and the crew is not happy when they return. But let's actually do some maths, because I read a little theory, where some people have been very vocal on the internet by claiming that the ticking at the start is actually perfectly timed, so that each tick equals one day back on Earth. And that the claim is that the maths works out so that, yes, every tick that we hear within the film represents a day back on Earth. So I thought, well, that's amazing, that feels very zimmer. So let's actually go and do the maths on this. So let's, you ready? This is the maths part. You ready Daniel? Okay, I'm ready. I know Nick's ready. He's standing up. He's sitting up to attention. Okay, so like we said, 60 minutes equals seven years. That's the information we get. So there is a question for you, Dan. How many days in a year? 365, if it's not a leap year? Nick, do you agree? Yeah. Well, you'll both be wrong, because there are 365.25 days in a year, Daniel, because of that leap year. You were sort of right, but anyway, that's the maths. So after seven years, we times seven by 365.25, and we get 2,556.75 days. That's how many days, that's how many ticks we're going to hear. So now that we know that 60 minutes equals seven years, so we remember that. So 60 minutes actually equals 205,557. Let's call it 57 days. Okay, now we divide both sides by 60. Okay, because we want to work out how many days equals one minute. You lost me. Maths with Andrew. Everyone's learning. So one minute equals 43 days back on Earth. So we could also say 43 equals one minute, 43 beats per minute. So now we're into musical time now. 43 beats minute. And I'm like, okay, Mr. Zimmer, let's pull out your track and see if this equals 43 beats a minute in terms of how fast those ticks are going. And guess what? Surely 43 beats a minute is incredibly slow. It's actually, it's not 43. Jesus, it's close though. It is not 43. Yeah. Does anyone want to guess what Zimmer pitches at that? 47.9. Do you know that, well, I've got 48 here. Oh, there you go. I was just. It could have been 48. Wow. I was being a smart ass. Yeah, yeah. It's 48. It's 48 beats a minute. This segment shouldn't have been called Maths with Pogo. It should have been BPM with Nick. Exactly. He's got perfect pitch, but perfect tempo. Yeah. Yeah. So it's actually 48. So I'm like, oh, okay. Well, the theory is not correct then. I mean, it's only a few beats out, which actually means it's incredibly similar. Incredibly similar. But I'm like, well, that's not good enough. But then I thought. Oh, yeah. That's what I thought. All right. I thought the scientist who actually proposes this is the same guy who's left back on the endurance, who is like 23 years older when he gets there. He's a bit of a rubbish scientist, isn't he? Because when they come back, like, was he done for 23 years? Like nothing. And he's like, yeah, I looked into some stuff, came up with a cupcake. He's done nothing. He's terrible. So I'm like, well, okay, he's given it his best shot when he said 60 days, sorry, 60 minutes equals seven years. He was just giving a rough guesstimate because he's not a very good scientist. I put my money on Hans Zimmer. I'm like, Hans Zimmer knows what the real deal is with this. So I'm going to trust him over some random scientist on the endurance. So I thought, let's reverse engineer Hans Zimmer's exact mathematical time. Okay. That he definitely came up with, with Nolan, surely. And then we're going to work out what the actual time dilation is on that planet. Okay. So back to maths. So one minute equals 48 beats per minute or 48 days per minute. So we times both by 60 again. And we're so 60 minutes or an hour equals 2,880 days. Then how many years in 2,880 days? I'm sure I couldn't tell you. Well, I could. It's 7.88 years. Or Nick, do you know what that is with seven years and what days? No. Seven years and 323.25 days on earth. So if anyone asks you, what is the time dilation on that planet, near Gargantua? Gargantua, what do they call it? Yeah, yeah. It's not 61 hour every seven years. So seven years, 323.25 days. And thus ends a maths with and for Andrew. Hey. Hey. And remember everybody, complaints about that segment can be directed to the out of the score email address, which is
[email protected]. Don't email Andrew.pogson. It's not me. It'll be some other editor. Yeah. Complain to, actually do send an email to that address. And see what that Andrew says. Yeah. Anyway, so thanks Nick. That's, look, that's great. This, this ticking idea and the concept of time running out is escalated again when we finally meet Dr. Mann, who I'm not going to say who the actor is because when I learnt it was his
actor blew my mind. I had no idea. Because I saw it, it's still a quite late. I didn't see it. The cinema blew my mind that this actor was in this film. So if you haven't seen it, I'm going to not spoil it. I mean, I doctomand. When he, I'm not going to spoil plot points. Okay, fine. When Matt Damon dashes his helmet into Matthew McConaughey's helmet, and there's a whole sequence where he basically says, I was lying and he leaves him there to die. We get this, another kind of sequence. And it's about three or four minutes long. And what I've done is I've kind of just crossfaded all the different sections rather than listen to three minutes of music into one. So you can really feel how the ramp up is happening. And what Zimmer is doing to really achieve this, this effective of anxiety and time running out and the stakes being at their highest. This is the track called Coward. [Music] So pretty frenetic. And what's interesting is that the percussive time thing or ticking noise is is sort of gone, but it's been replaced by, you know, just the monotonous sort of ramblings of the of the organ, which is sort of always always going and working up and getting more and more frenetic. And this one really has illusions to that, you know, that famous Bach, Partita and Fugor, Tukata and Fugue, sorry. It's yeah, it's a really, really lovely sort of organ effect that really, really makes you feel the angst in the scene. And I think there's no piano solos to his called out in the Anchorage of the movie, but I think in the album it's, it's piano is hunzimmer. Yeah, right. But do we think perhaps that's a, that's a door piano? Tempo at 43 BPM and one note at a time, Dan. Yeah, yeah. Dear old Hans could do anything. I'm sure. I could do that too. I mean, I have composed exactly like that. I was talking with actually another pretty well-known games composer about how both of us were asked to perform music that we've composed live and we were both like, no, no, sorry, that's not possible. Not quite slowly and then we speed up time and then bring our own black hole. But look, the really the ultimate example of this style of this kind of concept of time really happens in one of the greatest sequences surely in this film, which is when Cooper is basically Matt Damon's been blown out of space and the endurance space station thing is spinning and Cooper has to enter a kind of a spin and dock at the same time and it's yeah super tense to say the least. This is a cue called no time for caution and really shows the wonderful ticking idea and just again listen to those sort of interstellar chords that come in that we heard from the water waves track before. [Music] [Music] [Music] I love it, I love it so much. It has so many wonderful elements there, I mean the clock. I mean obviously there's the ticking but there's so many clocks happening at the same time. I mean they're spinning. I mean it just brings up, I know the whole thing is spinning as in like the space station part is spinning and the aircraft. And there's 12 arms of it as well? Yeah, everything is everything's emotion. I mean it feels like like you know those old fashioned you know an actual timepiece with multiple cogs and if you've ever seen the ones where they're you know they're C3 you can see all the cogs moving and all the cogs are moving at sort of different speeds and things are spinning around at different speeds. I mean it feels like the musical representation of that of there are cogs all twirling at different times and at different speeds and I don't know just masterful and then when those big you know done over the top yeah it just it ties the whole thing together doesn't it's like a combination of all of the ideas sort of together. It jumps you know it slightly stutters between the big notes unlike the previous renditions. [Music] which is an interesting little tweak. But do we know how the clocks are done? I mean is it so is the reason that I ask is because in Dunkirk which is their next collaboration and their final collaboration so far I don't know whether we'll get any more between Zimmer and Nolan. The story which I don't know if it's apocryphal or not but of Nolan giving Zimmer's grandfather's watch or something. Yeah and he recalls it and used in the score in a very similar way actually. I mean for for my ear it's definitely most of it's musical. In that there's definitely the strings hitting well the string players hitting the strings with their the backs of their bow. I mean you're getting it called col-lig-no. There's also just straight up a pecacif piano being played isn't it that is coming out like as if it's you know dig dig dig dig. And what's so great is that very final organ chord that that kind of like starts and fades up almost like in a different key over the top just to sort of like the enormity of something else coming out and growing and it's not a perfect C major chord. It's got like a sort of raised fifth. You know which is that beautiful almost like a space chord. You know you hear it at the start of every star wars end credits. And it's yeah heaps of you know corner and goldsmiths and stuff it's a really yeah classic sort of sci-fi space element but you know in the case of this film it's just that forms that kind of tension that is the pull of so much of of the harmonic language of this film where we're not quite centered in any chord. He does let it resolve though doesn't he because they release that that fifth and then you let the major chord is just rung out at the end like it does get a little resolution yeah in the sort of almost the reverb at the end of the notes yeah yeah which is clever and probably a mixing thing and we actually hear that three times in the film we also hear it at the very opening which is a perfect C major chord. There's a really angsty one when they first sort of when Michael Caine does that beautiful poem do not go gently into the good night and we get that really angsty you know as they kind of off into space and then hear it sort of it's a bit of both. Do you know what my favorite part of this score is guys? It's actually this cue played by the kazoo orchestra. Have you heard this? Oh yeah, right.
(laughs) (blues music) (laughs) - Woo! I should give credit to YouTube and Evans Kuzoo covers. (laughs) - Thank you. - So thank you Edmond for your wonderful, apparently he performed every note himself. I thought there was just glorious. - That was rockin' wow. - Absolutely rockin'. I also liked that he did in the same way that Yorgon is, we talked about breath and how human it was. This is human. If anything, Evans take on it was more appropriate than perhaps Zimmer. - True? - Exactly, exactly. - Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Thanks Dad. (laughs) - Ah, that's wonderful. - You know, if we're at the throwing ridiculous things in stages of the podcast, I'd love to say that. - Thank you. (laughs) - The one thing that I would love to just quickly mention, actually, is that the trailer for the film, the trailer for the film, actually doesn't use a piece by Zimmer at all. It uses a piece by a great composer whose score, we should get to at some point. Dari Mary and Ilya, I play a little bit of the trailer actually right now. (dramatic music) We're not meant to save the world. We're meant to leave it. And this is the mission we were trained for. - I've got kids, Professor. - Get out there and save them. - Not knowing you're gonna come back. I'm coming back. We must reach far beyond our own life's paths. We must think not as individuals, but as a species. We must confront the reality of interstellar travel. - Murth, I love you forever. (dramatic music) - I'm coming back. - Yeah, Dario Mary and Ilya, beautiful, beautiful bit of music actually stunning track from Viva Vendetta. I think it's when EVE, the Natalie Portman characters, is reborn following-- - She comes out in the rain on the rooftop. - Yes, I remember seeing that in the cinema and being just blown away by that piece of music. - Yeah, truly just one of the best. And that whole sequence, like the rest of the movies, is actually I think quite good, but the sequence where we're Natalie Portman and can there's that letter and the score in that sequence and then that the rain, it's, I mean, that's a 11 out of 10 moment. That's a 15 out of 10 moment. - Yeah, it's a real one, the highlights of American cinema of that era. - So what do we ultimately think of this score guys? Is it the, I mean, Dan, you mentioned that you think it might be the best of Zimmer. Do you agree at all, Nick? - Look, as a bit of film music, yeah, it's pretty incredible and it's pretty hard to argue against the lasting effect that it has a new as a viewer. And as pure music, I can totally see what it's doing and I've mentioned this before with Zimmer that sometimes that simple direct approach is sort of hard to argue with. And some of his detractors may look at it and say, look, it's just pop song progressions repeated and built upon, yada, yada, yada. But I sort of feel that to do that is to do a disservice to what he's actually achieving here and just appreciate how good this bit of art is, and in the film it works absolute wonders. There is no doubt about that. And yeah, its directness is really quite arresting and emotional and some of the simplest musical ideas in this film are quite haunting. And every time I watch this film, it dangles around in my mind for many days. As simple as some of those harmonies are. And you know what I think is really important for the mass audience out there, often aren't musically trained. I think the fact that this score is so easy to kind of sit down, the piano and kind of play, just the basic ideas, just sit down and go. You know, I mean, that's probably that grade three or four level piano just what I played there. And instantly it's so accessible to every little kid who's learning piano, who sees his film or adults who have had a hard time in their life. I just want to sit down and noodle at the piano with these chords. You know, it's so accessible to them. And like, that's great. And they're like, sit down, they can play in just a la and have a great day. And you know, it's kind of life affirming for them. And that's why you see endless covers, you know, you see videos on TikTok of people in train station sitting down and playing this and crowds gathering and people in tears. Just from the simple beauty, beauty, and sort of directness of this music. So go hands is what I say. Yeah. I mean, you heard what I think at the top of the show and I haven't changed from that. I think that it is. It's one of the soundtracks that is most original for Zimmer, as well. I think, you know, particularly not so much now, but in the '90s, I mean, he was one of those composers who, you know, a few people would sort of be like, "Oh, well, that's obviously just, you know, "insert classical great in here." Or, you know, we spoke in the Gladiator episode how there are a few moments in there, which are probably deliberate armages to Holst and Wagner and Shaw. But I think. I don't really think you can do that. There are maybe touchstones for this score, but I think it's one of his most original and also most original in the sense that it doesn't sound too much like his previous work. There are ideas that he is perfected over the course of his career, but that's just because he's a composer who writes music. It sounds like Hans Zimmer because it was written by Hans Zimmer. And I think it kind of stands alone from a lot of his other work in that respect. And I think as well, the one other thing that I did want to say, I think that, like most film music enthusiasts, I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with Hans Zimmer. I truly love his best work. And I think there are some other elements that frustrate me about some of his other pieces, which we have, none of which I think we've talked about today or even really in the podcast before and let's not go into that. But, and certainly his influence on the film music industry, I think is something that has been up for debate at various points. But I think that one of the things that I often find myself being a little irritated by is the way that, so often there's a bit of a PR story. There's a marketing hook for a soundtrack. And that exists in this score with that letter and that kind of that way that the original idea was formed at. And I kind of feel like it almost actually does a disservice to the rest of the soundtrack because it, it means that we're back talking about a little bit of process, which is the thing that Hans Zimmer loves to talk about with press interviews. Here's how I did this. I recorded Christopher Nolan's grandfather's watch and that sampled throughout the score. That's the kind of thing that we're used to hearing, I think, with Hans Zimmer, where it's about how the music was created. And you get that as well with this score, we went to the big church organ. Sure, these are all interesting stories. But I think what is different and what makes this score really great and different from a lot of other Zimmer's work is that you can actually talk about the craft and Nick used the word art. You know, the artistry of this, the emotions, the what it makes you feel, how it works with the image, the kind of lasting impression that it has on, I don't know, you're kind of artistic soul. I think this music does that and it does it in ways that perhaps lesser soundtracks don't, which is perhaps why you, you know, sometimes you find yourself maybe leaning on that marketing hook a little bit to talk about them. I think this score is, it's a great work as far as any film school can be. I couldn't have said it better myself, Daniel. And guess what? I reckon that brings us to the end of our analysis of Interstellar. We hope you enjoyed yourself and if you did, go ahead and press subscribe and write us a review on iTunes. Only five stars will do, guys. Four stars, keep it yourself. All that sort of stuff helps us get the word out of there because Nick, did you know that I met with our accountant today? And he, I thought to myself, sure, we spent a bunch of money on our marketing over the last two years.
Surely, guess what he told us Nick? - What did he tell you? - We spent nothing on marketing. - Mm. - Free. So we need you, find listener who has got to the end of this epic single episode to spread the word, we're back. We'll have some more episodes coming of course. And look, if you have any questions about the scores, we talk about will you just want to request a score for us to analyze in the future? Look good luck folks. (laughing) Yeah, it was up on Twitter. Remember that? X, are we calling the X, whatever? I'm at other the score at Instagram at other the score along with Facebook, with the same name, all those places you can get in touch with us. Also on the email, Nick, remind us again what it is. Contact at artofascore.com.au. - Love it. - So until next time, I'm Andrew Pogson and that's Dan Golding. - Muff! (laughing) - What? - And he's Nicholas Buck. - Ah, driver Lincoln. (laughing) - This was artofascore. (dramatic music) - Hey Nick, I know it's the end of the podcast, but can you play something, I'm gonna read the Dylan Thomas Palm, do not go gentlemen to that good night. I'm gonna read it and I'm not a very good reader, but can you play the Hans Zimmer music and make me sound like really thoughtful and good? - Sure thing Andrew. - Thank you. (gentle music) - Do not go gentle into that good night. Old age should burn and rave at close of day. Rage. Rage against the dine of the light. The wise men at their end, no dark is right because their words had forked no lightning. They do not go gentle into that good night. Good men. The last wave by crying how bright their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay. Rage. Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight and learned too late, they grieved it on its way. Do not go gentle into that good night. Grave men near death who see with the blinding sight, blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay rage. And you. My father. They're on a sad height. Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears I pray. Rage. Rage against the dine of the light.
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