Episode 35: David McKillips (CEO, Chuck E Cheese) | The Past is a platform not a prison

Hey there, I'm Radhika Zavari, host for my teaching podcast, "Podwalk" and these are my conversations with industry experts on brand purpose and innovation. And I'm sharing stories that help brand marketers grow. After overseeing a billion-dollar CPG brands at many companies like Nestle and others, I'm now a professor of practice at Southern Methodist University and a steward for creating diverse learning. I encourage you to go for a walk and uncover your own perspectives as you listen to my conversations with marketers from many of your favourite brands as we dive into how they drive change through brand purpose. I'm thrilled to welcome David McClips, the CEO of Chuck E. Cheese. At a moment when the brand faced bankruptcy and a global shutdown, David stepped in with the vision not only to stabilize the business but to reimagine what this iconic family entertainment brand could become. I'm bold in ovation to honouring legacy. Today's episode is a masterclass in crisis leadership, focused driven strategy and turning challenge into opportunity. What strikes me most about David is his passion to learning as he lives by his mantra "Never stop learning", which has served him well as he has turned around Chuck E. Cheese to relevancy. David, welcome to "Podwalk". We're so glad to have you here. I'm glad to be here, Radhika. Well, great. I want to dive right into your journey at Chuck E. Cheese. I'm very excited to talk about it. I've already heard so much from your associates on it. David, before we dive into talking about the brand, would you share a little bit about your career journey and what drew you to take on the challenge of leading such a beloved brand, yet such a struggling brand at the point when you joined? Well, I'll tell you, I have probably stitched together some of the greatest seasonal jobs to make a career. I started off my journey, really, as a teenager. My first job was at a pizza restaurant in St. Louis, Missouri called Ken's Pizza. I always loved making pizza serving pizza, being around the pizza rea and serving the guests that were coming in, because everyone is always happy when they eat pizza. But as I moved through my career, my first job in the world of family entertainment was actually the sea world in Orlando, Florida. I started there in operations and I got transferred to another sister theme park called "Sesame Place", which is a theme park based on the Sesame Street characters. That was in Philadelphia , Pennsylvania, but that got me great experience in the preschool market, which I never thought I would ever need. I was there for two years. It's time for me to move on, which I did. I was lucky enough to get a position at a division of Warner Brothers called DC Comics. As you know, DC Comics is home to the world's greatest superheroes. It's Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, all those great superheroes. I did everything from sell ads to comic books to work on promotions, to work on the movies, to work on animation, and it was the license or, to one of the largest theme park companies in the world, Six Flags. Six Flags was developing and building roller coasters based on the Superman or Justice League intellectual properties. I got to know them very well. So much, they invited me to come over and start working at Six Flags. I did that after about 10 years with DC Comics and then I spent 13 years at Six Flags working in just about every single department, leading all the departments. My last job was the president of International Development, which I absolutely loved. To get to your question, how did I end up at Chuck E. Cheese? Well, at the end of 2019. They were looking to make a change at the CEO level. I was originally not really that interested, because I was building billion dollar theme parks in Saudi Arabia called Six Flags could be a fantastic project. Then I got to call about about CEC Entertainment, which is the parent company of Chuck E. Cheese. I was like, I don't think I'm really interested in this, because I'm just a more kind of massive project. Then I started thinking about everything I did in my career, preschool market, pizza, family entertainment, great intellectual property, and I was like, wow, this could be an incredible opportunity. I called the back and I said, I'd love the opportunity. Clearly, there was a lot to do, I imagine, when you first came up. That first of all, that's tremendous experience that you just described and what a foundation. Sounds like this was meant to be. Really, really lucky. But I came into an atmosphere and an environment that was a capital-deprived asset. It was owned by private equity. It did not have a lot of investment, it had not been refreshed. It was a brand that was tired. It was old. Moral was low. So it was really a tremendous effort for us to come in, build a new team. At the same time, and I think some of the questions you're going to get into is like, at the same time, we were knocking on the door of 2020. I started in January 2020. And a big event happened that year. Yeah, to say the least. To say, what was your reaction? Because I suppose when you came on board, there was a lot to do. There were turbulent times. It come with all this experience. What was your initial reaction? And how did you begin prioritizing what you thought needed to be done? Well, let's unpack what I thought I was going to be doing to then what I had to do because of COVID. And I was only in the chair for six weeks when we decided to close the doors. So it was my first time being CEO. I walked into an atmosphere that, as I mentioned before, where Moral was low and how are we going to do? I came in here with a head full of steam and my background was capital-light. We didn't have a lot of capital to deploy into the company. So I was going to take the intellectual property of Chuck E. Cheese, which is an incredibly popular character. And look at monetizing the character through licensing and franchising the brand and pitching movies and licensing and all this to try to generate incremental cash that I could then capitalize back into the business. So I had to get number one, the company excited about the opportunity of what could be. And I remember the first town hall, I put the logos of Disney and Nickelodeon and Lego and DC Comics, all these big logos on the screen. And I'm like, we are as big if not bigger than any one of these incredible kids characters. But Moral was low. They didn't feel that. I had to say, look, coming in, this is incredible. We have an incredible asset. So I was guns blazing coming in in January and February. And then we got the call that something strange was happening in starting California. And then in New York and then before you know it, it was worldwide in the world, not just for you, but in the world. The doors in March. And this company did not have the balance sheet to survive if we are going to be closed. It just didn't have that type of capital structure. Yeah. And so as you went through this emotional trauma in a sense, because you were trying to change the morale, you're trying to convince people, first of all, how did you keep them motivated as they went through these times? And operationally, what was some of the first things that you, you know, sunk your teeth into? Well, from an operational perspective, we had to rely on creating a safe atmosphere. And you know, these were back making decisions. It was life and death, which I know sounds a little dramatic. But if you think about in 2020, people were scared to death. And they were so worried about going out in public and getting COVID and, you know, the family members were passing and there was horrible news out there. It was really, it was a horrible time to, you know, to be in a business, especially in a business that is so highly tactile, like, like Chuck E. Cheese. I mean, we're a high-touch atmosphere that just could not operate. So operationally, we had to focus that if we were going to open and reopen the doors, how do we do it in a safe manner? And you're talking about young parents who have preschool children who are so, we're going, you know, you know, you know, you know, Mama Bears, right? So they're so protective of their little kids that safety was, that was number one. Now, from a culture perspective, what we did is something I called the listening learning tour. I started going out to all of our, what we call restaurants, we call them fun centers in our, in our business and hosting town halls. And we kept six feet away. And I would meet everyone because I was, I was brand new in the seat. I didn't know anybody. And I went to virtually all of our locations. We had to furlough many of our part-time employees, but we kept every single general manager paid them 100% of their salary and 85% of their bonus. And we kept all those GMs during COVID. And it was, it was really remarkable. So that brought, that, that bought me a lot of credibility. And just listening to the fears, the concerns, it had been. And then what could be was, was a great time for me to formulate the strategy of how are you going to come out of COVID? Number one. And then the second piece that was just a couple of months beyond the March closing date of the, of the stores, set of file bankruptcy, file chapter 11. Yeah. a debt restructuring of the entire company. So we had COVID, then the restructuring, then we had to implement reopening and and put together a growth strategy. And you know that that sounds, I mean that that is so much that is so much to deal with and so much that was changing beyond your control as well. So as you lead through that level of uncertainty and when you have to convince people of what can be, how do you lead with uncertainty and yet be certain yet have that level of certainty that things are going to work out because you have to convince staff and investors and customers that this is in fact the right place to be from a safety standpoint, you know it's going to give you that fun atmosphere that you're looking for. So how do you lead with certainty in uncertain times is it have you have you sort of cracked that code going having gone through all that you have gone through. Well I was I was for unfortunate and fortunate is that I had been through it before. So certainly not COVID but I had been through a restructuring and and we took six flags through a chapter 11 restructuring process as well. Yeah. So I knew that this company had really strong bones. It was a profitable company just had too much debt. And you know there there was a saying that an old retail director that I worked with he said I've you know been there done that bought the t-shirt. So I knew this company could be great and financially it had strong bones and I just needed to convince everybody that this was a this was a path that was going to work for us. When I joined this company I inherited an incredible team the tenure in the in the field was was tremendous but there was a huge wall between the support center aka corporate and the field. And so there was there was credibility lost there. So for me to get out into the field with my field generals talk to the employees listen to the employees which we call cast members that bought me some credibility and they just needed to see a face and they wanted to be led and they were so excited to at the art of the possibility of what could come and you know at that time there was just so much uncertainty. So for me to come out and say here's where we're going you know no different than the captain and if you're on American Airlines he comes out and says welcome everybody we're going to Denver today you know where you're going and did I know we were going to end up where yeah but you know that was my plan and you know we we you know we drew it up in very simple terms so everybody knew exactly where we were going and and I broke that wall between corporate and field so we're all working together. Yeah sounds like collaboration and communication really worked for you. Then was there something you learned about your own leadership style as you went through these turbulent times? Yeah I learned that the power of communication is the paramount of success and I do something which I still do today and every one of my town halls were good the bad the ugly and I didn't I didn't skirt around with any of the bad news you know and you know whether it was about the the debt restructuring whether it was about closing stores for lowing employees you know all the really really hard decisions it had to be made we made but I'd share the things that are going well the things that didn't and then you know I think it was refreshing I tell everybody that the things I screwed up on I mean I'll sit and I'll tell everybody here's the things I tried and here's the things I failed at and you know I think that was a little refreshing for this particular group to hear yeah the the honesty and transparency of you know giving myself which is the company a reporter okay yeah here's how we did this quarter here's how we did this year I got a c minus and this or I got an a plus here or a b there and I failed at this and and in that that just that started breeding good transparency throughout the organization yeah and just vulnerability in leadership from going into the field and talking to people and listening like you were saying to being very transparent in what what what didn't work so as you were moving fast during this time because there was so much to do like you said the pandemic accelerated so much as well from technology to the way companies were changing their business models to keep up not not only with the times of the pandemic but also just because there was an acceleration within technology how did you evolve fast to keep up with it yet slow enough where you could stabilize and fix your house because a lot had to be done internally as well before you began expanding both locally and globally was was there what sort of strategy did you have in place in order to be fast yet slow well we had to move very fast from a technology perspective and there were decisions that we needed to make a great example we were spending millions of dollars on the paper tickets that were distributed by the the arcade machines that you would go and redeem prices for and we made a decision that we would move from the paper tickets which are very tangible to a cleaner cleaner and faster experience and move to eat tickets which some of the loyalists who had been around the brand for years like there's no way you can do this how could you do this to the brand but the reality of it is you know five six seven-year-olds consume entertainment very differently and consume and technology differently and they're okay having the tickets on your on your card but that was a huge decision for us but we had to move very fast on so we did that we think about the ordering and you know the just the the kiosk that we brought into the to the experience so but a lot of decisions that we we made because of our scale we could make decisions in a pocket of our fund centers right so we we would do tests in certain markets and then if they worked we could take it nationally and then you move real fast and we're we're corporate almost 99 percent corporate owned in the United States we're 100 percent franchise don't so you can move a lot faster being corporate owned and you can be franchise right so you know we we had that ability to be corporate owned and when we found something that worked then we could move real fast so we would try a lot of different things we failed probably at 90 percent of them but the 10 percent that worked we take them and then everybody be aligned and move fast right and so that was sort of a good strategy of balancing the two of being fast yet slow and not making major mistakes making mistakes to fail forward but not the major mistakes now that that's fantastic and you talked about loyalists and I'm curious you know oftentimes when we talk about our loyal consumers and of course we want to talk to our loyal consumers for feedback have you found that why customer feedback can be a guide and a gate keeper also listening to loyal consumers can that start becoming a barrier to innovation because new consumers are learning and utilizing businesses in a very different way then perhaps your when I say older not older in age but just your past consumers your loyal consumers are so do you feel that listening to loyal consumers can also become a barrier to innovation and if you've found that what have you done in order to make sure that you're evolving in learned times well this is such a unique brand so first I'll tell you we are very insights driven here and it is important to listen and interact with your loyal customers but you also need to give the same amount of attention to your not so loyal customers and even the customers are even visiting you and figure out why they aren't visiting you and then you know you look at a brand that is so unique like Chuck E. Cheese and its origin and its histories was it was all about the animatronics right and it's and we made a decision to take out the animatronics and as I mentioned before that you know young people are are digesting technology differently well they're also digesting entertainment differently so what a five six seven eight year old today is consuming entertainment is very very different than it was 20 years ago when the animatronics were there so and the animatronics were dated and it was if we just needed an injection of new entertainment at at Chuck E. Cheese so what we do is we listen to our loyal our most loyal customers and some of them are loyal lists meaning they love the brand and they love the legacy of the brand but they don't visit because they've aged out of our brand our core demographic is two to 12 year olds with a bull's life three to eight so a lot of the people that experience the brand who may now be teenagers are young twenties who are very loyal to they're not our core customer anymore yeah they're not visiting us even though they still love the brand they're not visiting us so you know we I respect them and I love the legacy and we've got legacy locations that we've left open for them but the reality of it is we needed to build the all new Chuck E. Cheese for a new generation of kids and so we went out to understand what do they want not what our core customers want today but what are the new five and six seven new aids yeah and then we design then we we design the new Chuck E. Cheese for them and these loyalists that you talk about you know the age group that is your customer today and then tomorrow they will be the parents of the new customers that will enter because this phase is moving so fast how do you as you're reinventing this very iconic brand how do you stay true to the roots of the brand while still growing into this future that you know how you hadn't imagined ten years ago and now you're growing into this very new future as people are evolving [BLANK_AUDIO] the way they're using entertainment is changing as well. How are you staying true? - Well, we need to think about what is the truth behind Chuck E. Cheese? And I spent a lot of time in Nolan Bushnell who was not only the inventor of the first video game, but he also the creator of Chuck E. Cheese. - Yeah. - And, you know, as I spoke with him and I said, you know, why did you create Chuck E. Cheese? And he wanted it to be a place where you could have great pizza, fabulous entertainment. And while you're waiting for that pizza to be made, you could play games. And if you think about it today, and a lot of times you ask, oh, you know, talk about Chuck E. Cheese. What is Chuck E. Cheese? Well, it's the animatronics and the pizza, that's good. You know, but if you step back for a second, it's not just about the animatronics. It is a place where families can come together, safe, wholesome, family entertainment. Play games have a great meal and be entertained. So fast forward, almost 50 years later, Chuck E. Cheese is just evolved. We're still the place for safe wholesome family entertainment. We still have the great games. We still scratch made delicious pizza, but the entertainment has evolved. So instead of the animatronics, where it's really a one-dimensional where you watch the show and then you go play games, it's now a completely interactive entertainment experience. It, a digital dance floor, Florida ceiling jumbo tronds with all new content that can be seasonal. It's got music, it's got dancing. Instead of the animatronics, we have a live entertainment character program where Chuck E. Cheese comes out every hour and a half hour. So now you're interacting and you're dancing, you're playing and having a great time. So it's just, it's evolved over the decades, but it's still staying true to what Chuck E. Cheese is. Anybody can build a pizza real with games, but nobody can build a Chuck E. Cheese. And that is the, that speaks to the greatness of the character. - Yeah, so your purpose has stayed the same. - It has. - 'Cause the way you're executing it has changed. - But the world's changed. So we are just doing that. - And the world has changed. - And delivering that entertainment for a new generation of kids. - Yeah, and you have active plays, well, you have trampolines there as well, don't you? - No, that, that's a new part of it. So, you know, the 30 years ago was ball pits. So now it's trampolines. It's, so we just announced earlier this week, Chuck E. Cheese, superhero playground. And that's an obstacle course that connects into the trampoline and kids can just run around and exert some energy and have some fun. But that's what kids want today. They want active play. They want the great games with the biggest brands, the digital dance floor that they can interact with, all new content that changes all of the time, right? So we've got our own entertainment content with Chuck E. Cheese. And then we've, we've done some third party deals with kids Bob. So it stays with that wholesome, safe family entertainment in all of our entertainment is g-rated. - Yeah, no, I think that's terrific. I used to take my son there when he was younger and, you know, it was a place where he didn't want to leave. And as a parent that puts you in a happy place, of course, because they have a couple hours when they're completely entertained, they're very happy, they don't want to leave, which makes you feel like you made a good choice. And it gives you a break as a parent too, because you're not watching the kids, like you would perhaps at home or whatever. So it was a little sad when, of course, they turn around 8, 9, 10, and they go through this next space. (laughing) Well, there aren't any Chuck E. Cheese's for that age group. And, you know, they're sort of married to their digital devices. And you have to think of other ways of getting them to be entertained. So, no, absolutely. There is fun and games in a lot of places, but it's not one that can be executed like Chuck E. Cheese. So that's sort of the magical place in town. And I love it. So, you know, we've talked a little bit about purpose, our purpose as a world, as the world as a world. And you guys are executing things in a different way to suit those new expectations. What is David's purpose? And how is that in line with your brand purpose? - So, no one's ever asked me that question before. So I thought it was really interesting. It actually made me think about what my purpose is and my purpose, I thought internally in what I do and what I have done now through my entire career. My purpose is to help people have a great day and celebrate the moments and make every day a little bit better and a little bit more special. And I do that every single day at Chuck E. Cheese. I did it for 13 years at six flags. I did it at DC Comics. I've done it at Sesame Place at SeaWorld and in my own personal life. You know, I love to host and be around people and make their day a little bit more special. So I get to do that for a living. I absolutely love it. And it aligns so perfectly with Chuck E. Cheese because our mantra, our operational mantra is every guest leaves happy. And that's what we work on. No matter what, we wanna make sure that when you leave and you're on your way home, you had a spectacular time with us. And I love that because it's exactly what I do when I wake up every day. Yeah, it's a small moments of joy that make up a beautiful life. So I absolutely love what you just said. You know, I'm gonna ask you a philosophical question. You inherited a brand and that brand came with. It's at the aspirational dream. It came with turbulent times. It came with the goods and the bad. And like you said, the good bad and the ugly. Is it harder to build something brand new? You don't have a clean slate. And you can make it whatever you want to make it. Versus inheriting something, fixing something that already exists where millions of people, you know, perhaps already have a perception about. In your career, what has worked better for you and do you think one is easier or is it just a different way of tackling a different problem, perhaps? They are both incredibly challenging. To create something from scratch, to grow it, to nurture it is something incredibly special. But then also to take something that has been so meaningful to so many people for decades, more than a billion people have come through the doors of Chuck E. Cheese. And the brand lost its way for a good amount of time. It's back now, but it is an incredibly challenging thing to do to turn around a ship. Because once that story is out, it is so hard to change it. And it takes time. And it's tough in this particular business because there are so many competitive family entertainment and kids focused entertainment concepts that are popping up all the time. And everybody wants to go visit the shiny new box and see what that's all about. But what we have here is a legacy where parents want to bring their kids because their parents took them. And there's multi-generations there. And now it's my turn to take care of this brand and help it for the next generation of young families. Both are very, very hard. There's something great about the legacy that is out there. And if you can turn it around, that tidal wave of momentum can just move. And you've seen that in other businesses. I'll give you a great example. Kevin Hockman, who runs Chili's, a great legacy brand. He was able to take that over. And they had an stellar year last year, even with all the market turbulence. And that was something that just, it feels like he was just speaking on a restaurant conference. He's like, Chili's is back. And I feel like the same thing here at Chuck Echese, you hear it from the employees, you hear it from the guests. So like, this is something special. And I love, I love that. And I was able to help turn around six flags through a bankruptcy and bring it to its height. We're doing that now with Chuck Echese. I was able to work with DC Comics and resurrect some of the characters there and launch them. It was great. So I like working with brands and helping them turn around. - So as you think about the next 10 years, what do you think the biggest challenge for entertainment is going to be? The biggest challenge is time. Do families and kids have the time? Coupled obviously with discretionary income to spend money because the kids' times and family times keeps continues to contract. And there's only so many finite amount of hours that you can go out and play and find time to go out and visit. In the meantime, there are so many more concepts fighting for the time. So you really have to have a value proposition and a point of differentiation. And that's where the legacy of a brand like Chuck Echese is so important. Because if a young family is going to make a choice to spend their hard earned money, where are they going to go? They're going to go to a place that gives you great value that has a great reputation that's affordable and that you can make that memory. That's where I think that we are well positioned for the future. Yeah, and it just lives up to the promise. Because when time is limited, you want to be at a place that lives up to its promise. That's right. So in everything that you have done and you've clearly done so much in a pretty short period of your time, if you think about it in last five issues, What has been the truth? you proudest moment? The proudest moment is when we were selected as one of the best companies to work for. And if you think about all of the accomplishments that we have made here, the brand transformation, the remodeling of 460 locations, the installation of new entertainment, new menu items, new technology, active play trampolines, now there are superhero playgrounds, the digital dance floors, everything. It's so incredible, but there is something so special about an organization that has now been crowned one of the best to work for. When I got here, we would post positions and no one would even apply. And now we post a position, we could so many resumes coming in and to win that award and then coupled with we now have the highest glass store rating in family entertainment and the lowest turnover. Our general manager turnover is less than 17%, which is incredible. That's incredible. That's especially taking on a brand and a company that had very low morale just five or six years ago and turning that around. That's just pretty amazing achievement right there. What have been some of the things that went wrong? I mean clearly a look went right, which is fantastic, which is put you on the map, not just domestically, but also globally, you're expanding globally as well. Can you talk a little bit about what are some of the things that perhaps didn't go the way you were hoping they were? Well, I've opened new concepts that were closed within a year. We opened up a fast casual concept in Kansas City and it just didn't take, it was well below pro forma. I remember walking out of the location and looking at our COO going, I would bet my house on this. I was so confident work. And all the data said it was going to work and it just didn't take. That was a hard, that was a hard pill because we worked so hard on a new concept. It was called Peter Piper Pizzeria and it worked very well in Arizona, but when we took it outside of its core roots and its core geographic footprint, it just didn't, didn't click with the consumer. And boy, we tried so hard, it just didn't click. We had done that. We launched a ghost kitchen that was really born out of COVID. It actually became very, very famous called Piscuali's Pizza and Wings. And at the time, during COVID, when restaurants were just launching ghost kitchens, to help with bills and keeping people staffed, there was a young lady in Philadelphia who felt she got her receipt on the receipts in Chuck E. Cheese and she thought she was buying from a local Pizzeria called Piscuali's. And before you know it, it hit Reddit and it was all over the nation that we were trying to dupe people and trick people with Chuck E. Cheese Pizza calling a different name. That was entirely not the truth. It was actually a different pizza recipe, it had more sauce, two different cheeses, Italian seasonings. And we have 460 pizza locations. So we typically are not the choice, though, for delivering carry out pizza because people come for the games and the experience. But this is COVID. We're shut down. And we have great scratch made pizza. But we don't sell a lot of carry out and to go pizza just because we're not known for that. So that was something that it was a hard learning that if you don't control your story, someone else is going to. And that was something and we still operated Piscuali's for almost four years and use that as an R&D kitchen. It was great, great pizza. But that was some great learning. And we've opened up other locations and neighborhoods that we thought would be successful, that didn't work, new menu items that we put on the menu, those didn't work. You know, that's just, you know, that's just different things. We've promoted some people, we moved regions around, and sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. So there's a lot of things though that worked and some that just didn't. Yeah. And I think sometimes consumers are fickle as well. And you can do a lot of consumer research when money isn't being exchanged. A lot of times when things end concept stage, it works because it's easy to say, yeah, it's great. You know, sure, we'll buy it, we'll buy it at this price. But when money comes out of a pocket, people react in very different ways. So I think in marketing that that's certainly the less the lesson learned by by many of us, you know, is to work in CPG and we had very similar lessons. So just because something works in one market, the results and the impact cannot be translated necessarily or equivalently in another market, consumers are very, very different into adjacent markets, even if the market is very close to each other. So yeah, that's that's really interesting. And I think your point about if you don't tell your story, somebody else will, is not just true in business, but also in life. That's right. Yes. So that's that's that's so great to hear. So let's talk a little bit about leadership. You know, we've talked a lot about Chuck E. Cheese, the iconic brand that it is, the legacy that it has had, the fact that you have reimagined it, reinvented it, it's on a battle success. And a lot has worked. As far as your leadership is concerned, what would you all, what would you want your leadership legacy to be? What would you want to be known for? Transparent communication and caring about people. I changed my title during my listening leadership tour. I said, I'm not going to be the CEO anymore. I'm not going to be the chief executive officer. I'm going to be the chief, chief empathy officer. And it was it was a time where you really had to care about people. You know, and my job is to care about the profits as well, but your team really needed to know that you cared about them. During COVID, host COVID, during the bankruptcy, you know, I'm asking people just hang type things are going to get better. I promise you, you need to trust me. And you know, you had to build that trust. At the same time, as we were, you know, getting into 2021 and 22, there was so much racial tension in the world as well. And that was a time where, you know, we have an incredibly diverse workforce here at at Chuck E. Cheese, as well as a diverse guest base as well. And, you know, I had to go down and sit down and really have some hard conversations with people and really understand, you know, their feelings. And, you know, that was really important. And, you know, that transparent communication goes, goes both ways. Not only when I'm telling them, but what they're telling me and having me listen to what is important to them and trying to create a great work environment for them that ultimately, we take care of our team, they take care of our guests. And that, and that works really well. So if there would be anything, it would just be transparent communication. No, I think that's brilliant. And, you know, I think that caring leads to confidence, confidence leads to trust. So it sounds like that's really what you've been trying to do with your team is building that trust over time. Because as you trust them, they trust themselves and feel empowered to do the right thing for the customer that's walking in to that next Chuck E. Cheese. And so that goes a long way. So, you know, that's brilliant. I was just having this conversation with someone else that I interviewed from McKinsey and we were talking about caring. And he's written this book about leadership journey inside out and it talks a lot about leaders caring and they have you know, feedback from 500 CEOs on why caring is so important. And when I think about, you know, I've been thinking a lot about that. And as I think about the academic world and us with students, you know, we don't necessarily focus time on teaching students how to care. We are teaching them how to perform because we live in this very performative world, which is impact oriented. And like you said, you're also responsible for profits, you're responsible for performance. How do you suggest that young business folks, marketers, just young people, you know, entering the workforce? How do you balance caring with being performance-driven leaders? What's that secret sauce? How should you build that? Well, I think you can generally just spend time with people and listen. People love to talk and would probably rather talk than listen. But if you don't have to be the loudest in the room, but ask questions and listen and take notes and then follow up with people. It's really amazing when you follow up and just ask somebody about maybe a situation that they they have. And you know, we learned so much over the past couple of years. We invited people in our houses working out of the house. And now you're seeing the kids walk by and the dogs and people not dressed up in suits anymore. Like it all evolved and got very, very personal, which was uncomfortable for me as I was going through the corporate journey because there was such a hard line between your personal life and your professional life. And you would never talk about politics. You would never talk about religion. You would never talk about, you know, some of these sensitive subjects, you know, I was always taught. That's just you don't bring those up in a work environment. And then all of a sudden, here we are. And I'm sitting with my team in California talking about racial tension and religion and their beliefs and everything. It was it was it was an incredible incredible journey and change in life that has not gone back the other way, you know, so it's, and then if you work internationally, you'll understand that respect is the absolute most important part of international business. And you can't get anything done sitting across from someone who may speak a different language, look different than you, dress different than you, pray to a different God than you, dress differently. If you don't start with respect, you have no shot of being successful. And I had taken those learnings of working in China and the Middle East and Southeast Asia and across Europe back to the United States down to California, to Nebraska, to Oklahoma, to Florida, to Washington, D.C., wherever I was sitting and starting with respect and asking people how they truly are doing. And I think that young people, if you really get to know the people that you're working with and ask them, I think there's an element of care there that can be shown. But ultimately, I'm still judged on performance and profits and there's a balance that, you know, I think that you just need to strike as a leader. Yeah, no, I think that's beautiful. And I think that empathy is something that we develop over time. It's not something that can just be taught in a classroom or read in a book. It's something that you practice and you develop it over time. And I'm curious as to who or what shaped you to get to this point because you talk about your leadership style so beautifully. And it sounds like it's rooted around empathy and around transparency, but also willingness to listen, to learn, not just listen in order to respond. So I'm curious as to either what shaped you, what brought you to this place or who perhaps has influenced your thinking over time. I think different people have crossed through my careers that I've been able to either be privileged to work for, work with, work around. I was a communication major that I was very proud of and I've always studied people and body language and communication and, you know, having the ability to work around the world in different cultures, it just, it helps frame who you are. And I just try to take the best of the people I have met in my life and my journey and take a little bit of them to build myself. Yeah. And it sounds like you come from a place. I've been thinking a lot about this as well. You come from a place where perhaps you believe that everyone has something to offer. And when you approach the world that way, there is that openness to be able to take a little piece of what each individual has to offer and that becomes the sum and that becomes the whole. So I love what you have shared and what a great note to get into our headlines, which I'm about to ask you next. So David, feel free to answer the headlines in a word, in a sentence. If you'd rather tell a story, of course, we'd be fine with that as well. So my first question is around, you know, what would you say young marketers should learn today in a digital in today's digital age? Uh, young marketers, what should they learn? The power of AI and the incredible strength and importance of content creation. What's the most underrated skill in brand building? The key component to driving your culture that gives you and your people a reason to care about your company and brand? What's one trend marketer should be paying attention to in 2026 and beyond? The power of storytelling and digital marketing. David, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been such a fantastic conversation, not just about the story of brand reinvention and reimagination as you have shared with us. It's been a masterclass in dealing with purpose and boldness and clarity through a time of uncertainty. So I really, really value your time. I really appreciate the fact that you come on on to potpork. And I hope to see you again very soon to hear about new news from Chuck E. Cheese in the years to come. So thank you again. Thank you so much. And we'll see you on campus. A couple of highlights from our talk today. From navigating bankruptcy and a global pandemic to modernizing a beloved brand without losing its soul, David has shown us that legacy and innovation don't have to be at odds. They can power each other when guided by purpose. For our listeners, especially those who are starting their own leadership of marketing journeys, David's insights offer an important reminder that the past is a platform, not a prison. And that reinvention is possible when you respect what people remember while boldly building what's next. And lastly, perhaps one of the most powerful takeaways from today's conversation is the importance of never stopping learning. No matter what your title, your industry or stage of your career, David's approach shows that curiosity, adaptability and a willingness to evolve are not just assets, the essentials to leading lasting change.