Episode 348

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She works for IBM. And she doesn't, did she work out of an office or did she work out of her home? She worked out of her home. Okay, and how long has Diane worked for IBM? God, 24 years. Okay. What does she do exactly for IBM? She, IBM is very specialized. They have managers for people going to the bathroom. She managed people that were reaching their second year in IBM and she was developing programs. For them to, for career development. By 2001, Diane had spent many years working as a supervisor at IBM, helping guide new employees through their training. She took pride in her job, but her greatest joy came from something outside of the office, her two dogs. Diane and those dogs were. That's what I heard, that they were her life. Very, very tight. Diane lived alone with her two dogs, but she wasn't without company. She'd never lacked attention from men. She was attractive, full of life, and she had the kind of personality that drew people in. She'd been married twice and divorced twice as well. I saw some wedding pictures. She was married twice before, once for, I think, four years. Again, only for like four months to some jerk, I guess, that, you know, just totally took advantage of her. After her second divorce, Diane signed up for a dating service. The kind where you filled out forms, not a profile. It was the early 2000s. It was a different time. There was no Tinder and Facebook didn't exist yet. The service eventually matched Diane with a 45-year-old man who worked in the computer industry, a Houston business owner named Dennis Conley. How long have you known Diane? When did you, how did you guys meet? We met through a dating service. It's just lunch, about 13 months ago. That's the name of the dating service? It's just lunch. Yeah, you have to pay to join. And it's like, you know, I mean, they just, they don't, it's not a computer thing or anything like that. They've tried to match you up. And I can take it you guys hit it off pretty good. Yeah, we did immediately. Diane and Dennis's relationship was a classic fool's rush in scenario. Things got serious fast. Too fast. And before long, they were already talking about moving in together and getting married. We met each other on the 5th of October last year. We both agreed that we would move to Houston because we got engaged, I believe, around the, like the middle of December. You know, we both knew it was kind of crazy, but I was just totally happy. Within two months of meeting, Diane and Dennis were engaged. And planning a fresh start, which included a new home in Houston and a new life together. But it didn't take long for the cracks to show. Like many whirlwind romances, the couple started to realize they might not be as compatible as they first thought. Like March, everything was going pretty good. And then we ran into some rough spots. We were like, you know, we're going to have to get back together. You know, given the fact that we weren't getting along together very, very well. I mean, there was no fight. I mean, we don't fight. It's just, you know, everybody carries baggage into your relationships at this age. And, and our baggage was clashing and, and we were working on it, but we decided not to be engaged anymore. But steadily, I mean, we've been to therapy together and I mean, we were really, really making breakthroughs, you know, and in fact, you know, I was going to ask her to marry me again over Thanksgiving. While we were up with my parents, they kept trying to make it work. And eventually Diane decided she would still move to Houston and live with Dennis. And she, when did she decide to sell her, her home? When she started looking at places in Houston about, uh, I'm going to say a month ago, but the plan was, is, you know, she was going to sell that and move in with me. As Diane prepared to move, she put her house up on the market, but the news of her move didn't sit well with another man in her life. Someone who didn't want to see her go. Has anybody gotten ahold of Ray? No, we're trying to figure out who Ray is. We've heard about Ray. How old is he? He's like 30 something. He just got out of the army. He's very, very, very smart. He's probably one of the smartest programmers that IBM has. He's very, very smart, but he's, he's out there. He's on the edge. 30 year old Ray Clancy worked with Diane at IBM. In fact, she had hired him and over time they had become very close friends. Some people said you guys were pretty close. Yeah, very close. Yeah. I know Diane probably better than most people in the town. I've watched her house for the last couple of years, her dogs, have keys, everything she's got, garage door openers. Of course it doesn't work right now. They have known each other since I think Diane's been here. He's from Louisiana. What was her relationship? Did they date at one time? No, it was a very odd relationship because what does that explain that to me? Like in other words, the way Diane described it to me, he seemed to worship the ground she walks on. Ray liked Diane a lot. And while Diane didn't feel the same way, she valued his friendship. Ray often, offered to help her with things around the house or to watch her dogs when she was away. It wasn't romantic, but everyone who knew about their relationship thought it was a little unusual. I was, I fixed everything in her house that was broken. I'm a fix it man too. You can do about anything in the house. So anytime she had a repair in the house, I did it for her. Helped her out. Almost everything. Put new locks on the doors and all that kind of good stuff. Cause the house came with crap. I mean, I weren't dating. Cause she didn't want to date you or her guy. She didn't want, cause I was six kids. She was six kids. Oh my Lord. Okay. Six kids in this day and age. Yeah. He watches the dogs. So it's great to have somebody to watch the dogs and and he did. The dogs were crazy about him, and he did take good care of him, and he did lots of stuff around the house for her. You know, he fixed her garage door like innumerable times, and my whole thing was, hey, he seems like a nice guy, Diane. Geez, he's watching your dogs, and he's fixing your stuff. He seems pretty harmless, so why don't you just lighten up on him, and for a long time up until that last falling out, that appeared to be the case. For all his effort, Diane had firmly planted Ray in the friend zone, and everyone seemed to know it except him. Eventually, he and Diane had a falling out. He stopped returning her calls as quickly and became less eager to help with the little things. Then a few weeks later, Diane missed an important employee meeting at IBM. Diane had not made an appointment or done whatever business she was supposed to do. Friday, that's when she became concerned, and that's when she called the police department. After Diane missed this meeting, one of her co-workers requested a police welfare check. When officers arrived at her home, no one answered the door. They went inside and eventually found Diane's lifeless body. Did they know where they found her? Listen, did they let her in the bedroom? Yeah, she was in the upstairs bedroom with a, where the, um. She never goes upstairs, ever. Diane was found on the floor of the upstairs bedroom. She was fully clothed and had been brutally strangled to death. There were no signs of what led up to it. No argument, no forced entry, no warning at all. And no sign of how the killer had managed to disappear without a trace. Um, I can tell you that it was ruled a homicide, uh, by a strangulation, okay? And I won't give you any of the other details. Um, right now, I just can't imagine why anybody would do that to her. Dennis claimed that he couldn't understand why anyone would want to hurt Diane. But detectives weren't so sure he was being honest. Not just about Diane's murder, but about their relationship in general. Much of what he'd told them about how they got along screamed of minimization. At the same time, detectives were equally puzzled by Diane's friend, Ray Clancy. A man who seemed to orbit her life long after she'd made it clear she wasn't interested. His behavior, his access to her home, and his attitude after her death all raised red flags. Between the two of them, detectives couldn't shake the feeling that one was hiding something. The challenge was figuring out where the truth stopped and where the lie started. At Crown Coins Casino, real people win real prizes every single day. Hi, this is Michael from Georgia. I won 40K and finally renovated my home. Visit CrownCoinsCasino.com for more information. At CrownCoins.com, sign up in seconds, enter code CROWN and get a free lucky wheel bonus. You may win up to 10,000 sweeps coins. CrownCoins.com, that's C-R-O-W-N, coins.com. No purchase needed. Code valid for new users only. Void when prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. CrownCoins Casino. Hey, it's Mario Lopez from the All Mario Lopez Daily Podcast. All right, quick question. You ever notice how some cars just steal the spotlight? Well, that's the 2026 Toyota RAV4. It's got bold standout style, intuitive tech, inside and now hybrid power standard, which means efficiency without the need to plug in. So whether you care about looks, smarts, or just everyday practicality, RAV4 brings all of it. If you've been holding out for the right SUV, this is your sign. Check out the 2026 Toyota RAV4 at your local Toyota dealer or visit Toyota.com. See packages and options at Toyota.com for feature availability. Here's golf legend, John Daly. Hell yeah, these wins are piling up faster than my divorces. I only spend on Moto, America's social casino. You know I've won a couple of majors. And on Moto, I've won majors, grands, and epic jackpots on their classic Vegas slots with huge, huge bonus rounds. Moto Casino adds new games and awards players free coins every single day. Grip it and spend it on Moto Casino. Download the Moto Casino app today. Moto Casino is a social casino. What were prohibited? No purchase necessary. Visit moto.us for more details. Moto Casino. America's social casino. Moto Casino. Moto Casino. On November 15, 2001, 43-year-old Diane Hollick was at her Northwest Austin home preparing for a move that would mark the next chapter of her life. But by the following morning, she was dead, found strangled in an upstairs bedroom of her home. In the days that followed, she was dead. Detectives started piecing together the timeline of her final hours. They processed her house and collected evidence. We have the house sealed for right now, and we're going to keep it that way until we, you know, gather a lot more information. Trying to focus in on the things that are important. Obviously, we've done a lot of the forensic, most of the forensic stuff. The crime scene was strange and ominous. Not because of what was found, but because of what wasn't. Diane was discovered face down on the floor of an upstairs bedroom. She was fully dressed, with marks on her wrists consistent with being bound, and deep ligature marks around her neck. There were no signs of forced entry, no struggle, and nothing to suggest sexual assault. The scene was eerily clean. So clean, in fact, that even Diane's own fingerprints were missing from places police expected to find them. Was she raped? Doesn't appear so. We won't know, obviously, until all the test results come back. But doesn't appear. She was fully clothed. As for suspects, detectives quickly focused on two men. Her fiancé, Dennis Conley, and a co-worker who, by all accounts, wished he was Diane's fiancé. His name was Ray Clancy. When questioned, both men offered nearly identical statements about Diane and her background. They told police that Diane had no enemies. That everyone who knew her, loved her. Can you think of anybody that wouldn't want to hurt Diane? No. Everybody loved her. Everybody that met her. Diane had no enemies, nobody that didn't like her. No anybody who didn't like Diane. Her personality was fantastic. She was a gorgeous human person. Initially, investigators turned their attention to Dennis. But he looked clean. At least on paper. He had no criminal record and no history of violence. This is the first time I've ever been in a police station. Other than when I was a legal officer in the Marine Corps and I took people there myself. According to Dennis, his last contact with Diane was on the afternoon of her death. They exchanged messages online during the workday. And Diane mentioned she may have found someone interested in buying her house. Diane said she was really super interested in buying her house on a Thursday afternoon. She said she would keep her fingers crossed. She doesn't usually say that unless somebody is really interested. One of the questions that I have for you, and you don't have to answer this, but I think may fit into this as well, is did she still have her engagement ring on? Because if she didn't, then that's what I think might have happened. Somebody came in. Yeah, we need to talk about. All her jewelry. I mean, there's going to be things. Yeah, just. So go ahead and fire away. And that's why I needed you to really come down here and I don't want to have to talk to you in front of all those people. I'm just upset. I understand that. One thing that stood out about Diane's interview was how eager he seemed to offer up theories. Any theory. About what might have happened to Diane. Maybe it was genuine speculation or maybe it was a way to steer attention away from himself. One theory he floated. One theory he floated was that Diane could have been showing her home to a potential buyer who noticed her engagement ring and decided to rob her. Maybe she fought back and things turned violent. Maybe this murder was a robbery gone wrong. Or maybe Dennis just wanted to make it look that way. Do you have a photograph of the ring or any information on that ring? I can get it. Okay. We're probably going to need it because we can't find the ring. My understanding was from Mrs. Brown was that she always wore that ring. Yeah, she did. And I told her, you know, I told her, I said, you know, when you go down to the park or whatever, you ought to not, you know, be flashing that thing around. It's a diamond? It was a $20,000, you know, I mean, it was a beautiful ring. Did you buy it for her? Yes, I did. Okay. She's so goddamn stubborn though. If they were trying to take the ring, I'll bet she fought tooth and nail for that. You know, and certainly robbery is a motive. There's no doubt. I will tell you, she would have had that ring on. There's no doubt in my mind. Well, it's missing right now. Yeah. Like Dennis, Ray also confirmed that Diane always wore her engagement ring. The obvious assumption was that whoever committed the murder had taken it. The ring. Three carat or something like that? It's a big one. Okay. I've never seen her without wearing it. I always meant to ask her, if you were breaking up, why aren't you wearing a ring? But I never would. That's kind of insulting. I've never seen her take it off before. Even whenever they were split apart and fighting, she never took it off. As for Dennis, if he was the killer, investigators had to consider possible motives. He'd admitted that his relationship with Diane wasn't perfect, but the problems he described seemed pretty mild. Especially for a couple that had recently called off their engagement. Perhaps things with Dennis and Diane were much worse than he was letting on. Yeah, we had our ups and downs, no question. But. But they weren't, you know, it wasn't like. No physical fights? Nothing. Never. Okay. Never. Never even angry or loud words. What were your big issues? Money? No. No. Other people in the relationship? It was just, uh, it's stupid, you know. That's one of the things I think I'll learn out of this deal is the little things aren't really that important. That's where I was getting to, too. But. According to Dennis, a major point of tension in their relationship was what he saw as Diane's obsession with her dogs. He wasn't thrilled about the idea of buying a new house together, only to have the two large dogs tear it up. But for Diane, her dogs were her family. She referred to them as her kids. And they weren't negotiable. Mostly it was the dogs, to be honest. Right. He hates, I wouldn't say he hates the dogs, but he didn't like the doggy person. Mm-hmm. And she, in her mind, it was important for him to like the dogs. If he didn't like them, that was too good and bad. He wouldn't get to find somebody else. Dennis told detectives that he did eventually come around. He realized that his issue with the dogs wasn't worth losing Diane. The thing that got me back and really, really cemented it was that, you know, she's, I remember her saying, you know, that she would, she loved me and that she would jump at the chance to be in a relationship and marry me. And, you know, no matter how long it took. And that really just settled down. It settled in my heart. And I just said, you know, I'm not going to ever find anybody that loves me as much as she does. Dennis's version of the relationship was that he and Diane had worked through their rough patches. The engagement might have been called off, but he said things were improving and that he planned to propose to her again. Did you guys, did you guys set a wedding date? No, but we talked about it last, last weekend we were together here. We had a great weekend, no issues. You know, she goes, so when are we getting married? And I said, I'm thinking, you know, October, but, you know, next year, but we might move that off, you know, depending on how things go. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, we had not set a date, but then again, I hadn't officially asked her to marry me again. And I was going to say that for, you know, around the same time that I asked her last year, just kind of as a special thing. While keeping a close eye on Dennis, investigators also focused their attention on another man. In Diane's life, her friend and coworker and someone who clearly had feelings for her, Ray Clancy. And Ray, what's the deal with Ray? Okay. So Ray is a very dysfunctional person from my standpoint in the fact that he seems to be attracted to women that are not attracted to him. Ray freely admitted that he had romantic feelings for Diane. But he denied that his wife. And his willingness to help her, watching her dogs, fixing things around her house, had anything to do with that. He said he was simply trying to repay her for bending a few rules at IBM to help get him hired. People say you might have had a little crush on her. Diane? Oh, hell yeah. I've always had a crush on Diane, since I can remember. She hired me when IBM wouldn't hire me. I'd have a high end of GPA. And they refused to hire me at IBM. So she broke the rules and she hired me. I've been all over the world, 20 countries. I've made a lot of money at IBM. There are all kinds of stuff. So if I could do anything with a computer, because she broke the rules for me. So I had a, I'm caging. We have a real sense of obligation to people that we like, our family, our friends. And so I always had this obligation to take care of her and watch her house and take care of her kids. Because she disobeyed me that nobody else would ever do. It was no secret that Ray had a thing for Diane. And it was also no secret that she just didn't feel the same way about him. Even Ray admitted as much, insisting that he just accepted it. And Diane didn't reciprocate your feelings? No, no. She's just friends. How come? I don't know. Just never had any clean or none of that kind of stuff. Just friends. Always have been. Did that ever cause problems between you? No, never. No? In the beginning. Arguments and stuff? No, in the beginning I always wanted to, I always pampered her and took care of her and bought her flowers and all that kind of good stuff. It used to make her nervous, uncomfortable because she didn't like guys pampering her. Have you ever had a relationship with her? No, she asked me that too. No, I never did. No sexual relationship at all? Nope, never even kissed her. Never even. Did you want to? Always wanted to, never did. Naturally, the investigators had to consider the possibility that Ray hadn't accepted being just Diane's friend. Maybe he was tired of helping her and getting nothing in return. Maybe he just felt like she owed him. Maybe he tried to make a move and when she turned him down, things got violent. Well, one thing that you said and then you kind of took it back. You thought she was a good looking. I did. Getting that body. She did. You said you didn't want to have sex with her. And then you said earlier on, you said, yeah, you did, but it just never. Did you or not? It was full of friendship if we did. It always did. It was full of friendship if we did something like that. Both of us knew it. It's just something we understood. Anytime you sleep with a lady, it changes everything. You get the feeling from the lady that. You made a pass at her and she said no. No, I didn't make a pass at her. I don't make passes at her. You didn't? No, I don't. I didn't. You don't make a pass at her because it's kind of insulting. Because she said no, then you get no friendship anymore. Oh, yeah, you do. No, you don't. Because Diane's really sensitive to that kind of stuff. You don't. I didn't want to spoil the friendship with her. So I didn't. I didn't push her. I didn't make a pass at her. All that kind of stuff. Just stuff I didn't really do. Did you love her? Did I love her? I guess. Like a friend. Did you ever tell anybody you loved her? Well, I love how? Like I love dogs? I love dogs, too. Did you tell anybody you loved her? I don't think I would have said that, no. The bizarre thing about Ray was that he came off as a genuinely nice guy. Yet if he had killed Diane, it wouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone. So you think he pretty much is obsessed with her? I wouldn't even. I don't want to go there. I just want to say that. What was there falling out about? Let me ask you that. Do you know? I don't know. It's Ray's presses. He presses like, you know, he's always wanting validation. And honestly, if I was a woman, he would give me the creeps. Oh, really? Yeah. And again, it seems like the worse women treat him, you know, the more he gravitates toward it. It's a very unhealthy situation. For many of Diane's friends, there was something unsettling about Ray. Something they couldn't quite put their finger on. Yet somehow, he mostly came across as friendly and harmless. So the big question just loomed. Was Ray just a hopeless romantic with an unreturned crush, let's say? Or was he something. darker? Was he a man willing to take what he wanted by force? By violence? By murder? Was Ray a monster? Did she ever tell you about anything inappropriate that he did that made her feel awkward? Well, yes. Then this was before we started dating. Uh-huh. You would press her on. Just, like, things that were not appropriate for friends to press on. And it wasn't sexual. It was just a lot of neediness. And apparently, I do remember now that that's what the last conversation was about. I guess he was pressing on something and either she hung up on him or he hung up on her. She just had no patience with that. Do you think he's capable of doing something bad? Have you ever seen him lose his temper? Has she ever told you about anything where she was afraid of him? I do not specifically ever remember anything like that, no. With both Dennis and Ray looking like plausible suspects, investigators turned their focus to the evidence. Maybe the crime scene could point to which man had killed Diane. There were no signs of forced entry, meaning whoever did it was either invited inside or they had a key. Did you know that she has a key to that house? I may have. There was one in my car that I. I do not have a key on my keychain because I never had the need to Do you know if Ray has a key? He has a key to our house too If you need copies of them you can make prints of them To your house? No, I'm going to take those keys She's deceased and there's really no need for you to be in the house anymore Both Dennis and Ray had keys to Diane's house That detail, unfortunately didn't help narrow things down So investigators shifted their focus to each man's alibi and when they each last saw or spoke with Diane When was the last time you saw her? Saturday, two weeks ago Saturday night in Dallas She was with a young lady I don't really know her name But I haven't heard from her since then No word, no phone contact, nothing for about two weeks Ray said that the last time he saw Diane was weeks before the murder Dennis told police that his last contact with her was through an online chat while he was at work When investigators checked on this both stories appeared to hold up which raised a new question Were they looking at the wrong men altogether? Maybe Dennis and Ray were both innocent What do you think happened? From what she told me since she never went upstairs and her house is on the market and you said she was trying to know what time I would guess that she was showing somebody the house Interestingly when Ray was asked what he thought might have happened to Diane his answer was almost identical to the answer that Dennis had given Both men suggested that Diane could have been showing the house to a potential buyer and then things turned violent With no sign of forced entry they reasoned that Diane must have let someone inside and maybe that someone killed her Investigators soon discovered that this theory wasn't far-fetched at all While canvassing Diane's neighborhood they learned that several residents had been approached by a strange man Someone going door to door claiming to be a rancher and asking about homes for sale Not only that but they later confirmed that Diane herself had been approached by this man In the afternoon on the same day that she was killed This man comes and claims that he's a rancher and claims that he's going that he can pay cash for the house But he's not he needs to get with his wife and that he was going to come back the following day with his wife to see the house We don't know if he has anything to do with it I don't know We're looking into it It seems suspicious We're going to try to get a composite an older man apparently he went to an older man's house Thursday probably around noon Yeah because that's when Diane said that she thought she had sold the house That was like about 3 o'clock in the afternoon on Thursday And I guess she had talked to her friend Tina that this guy had come to the house but he didn't have a real estate agent with him he came by himself and you know I think she thought it was odd but I don't know apparently she let him in to the house Jesus but he left For several days investigators tried to untangle the stories of two men a fiance who might have been angry about a failed engagement and a co-worker who might have been angry that Diane didn't love him back But as the investigation moved forward something much darker started to surface something beyond jealousy or heartbreak In a disturbing twist the evidence pointed to a different kind of motive altogether one rooted not in love but in perversion and it suggested that whoever killed Diane Hollick hadn't come to win her heart he'd come to feed a fetish. But that was the end of the story we hope you enjoyed it and we hope you'll join us for the next episode of Crown Coins Casino See you next time on Crown Coins Casino Crown Coins Casino www.crowncoinscasino.com www.crowncoinscasino.com www.crowncoinscasino.com Winning never sounded so good What would you do if you won big? At Crown Coins Casino real people win real prizes every single day Hi, this is Michael from Georgia I won 40k and finally renovated my home Visit crowncoins.com sign up in seconds enter code CROWN and get a free lucky wheel bonus You may win up to 10,000 sweeps coins crowncoins.com that's C-R-O-W-N coins.com no purchase needed code valid for new users only void where prohibited by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply Crown Coins Casino Hey, this is Mario Lopez from the All Mario Lopez Daily Podcast Alright, quick question you ever notice how some cars just steal the spotlight? 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Yeah I got a friend staying with me So you can vouch for me if it comes to that No, I just You know we gotta do it I understand I understand I understand I understand you're not going to do it again I understand you're not going to do it again a van registered to a Patrick Anthony Russo. Patrick Russo, right? Correct. Okay. And how old are you? 38. 38. 38-year-old Patrick, who sometimes went by his middle name Tony, lived in Elgin, Texas, about 25 miles east of Austin. Patrick was a born-again Christian who worked part-time at his local church. What's the name of that church? New Life in Christ. New Life in Christ? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And what do you do for that? I'm the music minister there. You said, and you're married. Your wife's name? Janet. Janet. Okay. And the two boys are yours? Yes. Patrick lived with his second wife, Janet. They had two children from a previous marriage, though they didn't live with them. On the morning of November 21, 2001, Texas deputies arrived at Patrick's home and asked both him and Janet to come down to the station for interviews. They agreed. You're not under arrest, okay? I am curious, though. I saw one be knocking on my door this early in the morning. This has to do with an incident that happened here in Austin, in northwest Austin. Some things are missing. I brought a calendar of November. If you can tell us. If you could start, maybe the 12th, and go through and tell us what you remember, where you were and what you did. Before revealing why they brought him to the station for questioning, investigators asked Patrick about his whereabouts during the week of Diane's murder. They quickly focused on the actual day she was killed, which was a Thursday. That day, a massive thunderstorm had swept through Austin. That was a big storm. It was a big storm day, wasn't it? That is not a problem. Thursday, I spent some time at the church again. I went to go to K&LE here in Austin. What time was that? I think it was about, let's see, I talked to my wife. I was pulling in the parking lot, so that would have been about 4 o'clock, I believe. Investigators said on the day Diane was killed, he'd driven into Austin to visit a local radio station. He said he was supposed to meet someone there who was helping him set up a website for his Christian rock band. We have a website that we've been trying to get up for about four months, and I have spent so much time with them trying to get it up, so I went up there to try to see about getting that up since we got all the information that they needed. And when no one came to the door, I went ahead, and left. Who did you talk to over at K&LE? Actually, I didn't talk to anybody because nobody answered the door. So you made the trip up there for nothing, basically? Pretty much. I mean, you didn't call ahead and say you were coming? Patrick told investigators that his trip to the radio station had been spontaneous. He hadn't made an appointment or even called ahead. When he arrived, no one was there to meet him. No one at the radio station remembered ever seeing him, which meant Patrick had no alibi. After leaving the station, the storm rolled in. The heavy rain and low visibility caused Patrick to get lost. At least, that's what he said had happened. I made a right-hand turn and made an illegal U-turn. It was the only way you could get around everybody. And then I went back out and got on the highway going back towards Bath, probably took me about another 50 minutes to get home. Normally, it was a little bit quicker than that. So what time did you get home? 5.30, I guess, or 6, somewhere. I'm not really sure exactly the time frame. Patrick told investigators he got home around 6 o'clock in the evening. But his wife, Janet, gave a different time. When we got to the station, there wasn't anybody there that was doing the website. So he was coming home. I know we were on the phone an hour because he was coming through all that storm. So we were on the phone probably from 6 to 7. What time did he get home? Should have been shortly after 7. Probably between 7 and 7.15, I'm thinking. The couple's timelines were off by an hour. In a lot of cases, that kind of discrepancy might not mean much. But in America. In a murder investigation, one hour can change everything. It can be the difference between being miles away from a crime scene or standing inside it. Did you ever stop to get out to talk to anybody? I believe I knocked on someone's door asking for directions. When you say someone's door, was that a residential door or was that a business door? No, it was a. It was a residential door. Do you remember what that person looked like? No, I have no clue. Imagine this. Just a few days ago, you're driving home when a brutal thunderstorm rolls in. The rain's coming down in sheets. Visibility's gone. And you take a wrong turn into a neighborhood you've never seen before. You're so disoriented that you stop at a random house, knock on the door, and ask a stranger for directions. Wouldn't you, I don't know, remember that? Wouldn't that whole encounter kind of, oh, I don't know, stick in your mind a little bit? Don't you think? Apparently for Patrick, meh. I want to ask you a little bit more about Thursday. You know, you just talked about going to K&LE. And no one was there to tell us that you were there. Okay? Okay. And then you talk about driving around and getting back on 183, and now you're telling us about maybe stopping at a residential area and talking to a gray-haired man. Is there any other places that you stopped while you were in this neighborhood? No. You didn't stop to talk to anybody else? No. I'm not lying to you if that's what you're asking me. That's what I'm asking you. I'm not lying to you. Plain and simple, you only stopped at one house. Correct. You talked to one man, an older man. And the gist of the conversation was you needed directions to get back to one of these. Correct. Needless to say, investigators didn't buy Patrick's story. They were convinced that the house he stopped at wasn't random and that the person who answered the door was their murder victim, Diane Hollick. So you're saying you've never seen this woman, never been to her house, never been to her doorstep, never been inside her house, never been invited? Never been to her house, never been invited to look around. There would be no reason for anything to come back to say that you were in her house. No, sir. If she's saying that I've stolen something from her, then I'm sorry. I don't know what to say. Interestingly, one investigator showed Patrick a photo of Diane. He not only denied ever being in her house, but also spoke about her as if she were still alive. He seemed to believe or wanted Detective. to think he believed that this was all about a simple burglary or break-in and not a homicide investigation. Of course, investigators weren't fooled by this performance and they had more than a few reasons to suspect that Patrick was their man. This wasn't his first brush with the law. Patrick was on parole at the time and had already spent eight nights in prison for kidnapping a woman and tying her up. I had a nervous breakdown while on the job. I was trying to seek out a new life, which wasn't really going all that great. It ended up where I had a nervous breakdown and I ended up holding the receptionist against her will and basically I broke down crying and just telling her all my problems and then I left. How did you hold her? How did you. I tied her up. I just needed someone to talk to. I didn't. I didn't feel like I had anybody and I forced her to. I forced her to listen to my problems and you'll see what it says in the case. Did you hurt her? I believe that anybody that ties anybody up does some damage. Physical damage, no, I didn't hurt her. Emotionally, I probably ruined her life. Patrick claimed that prison had changed him. He said that after his conviction, he found God, embraced faith, and left his old criminal life behind. He supposedly transformed himself into a humble Christian man. I'm going to tell you what I've done to get my life in order, okay? I spent my entire eight years in prison, doing nothing but engulfing myself in a better life. I got my GED. I went to college. I studied for theology to become a minister. I took every kind of anger management program. because that was My big problem back then was I went through the drug rehabs because I had an old drug habit that really took a toll on me. After his release from prison, Patrick wrote a book, joined a ministry, and even started a Christian rock band. All of this, he claimed, was part of his mission to help others find faith. When I got out, I've done everything from put a book out to try to help inmates and other people get their life in order through Christ. I have been a music minister. I have a ministry that I go into prisons with. Unfortunately for Patrick, the investigators weren't convinced by his supposed moral awakening. To them, this new Patrick looked a lot like the old one, a man with a history of violence and a record that included not just kidnapping, but also burglary. And of course, Patrick had an excuse for that as well. What about the burglaries? All my offenses have to do with just anger. Was there somebody in the house when you did the burglary? Yes. Well, I didn't burglarize the house. I assaulted someone through their doorway. And so I got a burglary of a habitation with intent to commit bodily harm when the burglary had nothing to do with it because it wasn't a burglary. I was actually looking for a friend of mine. I was looking for a drug fix. When investigators pressed Patrick about his criminal past, he grew uneasy. But detectives didn't let up. They hadn't brought him in to rehash his old crimes. Their focus was on the murder of Diane Hollick. I'm trying to stay relaxed about this whole thing, but y'all are starting to grill me pretty hard for stuffing. I don't even have the slightest clue what's going on, but I do know that, you know, I'm trying to be as honest as I can with you guys. Are you? I mean, are you really? Yes, I am. Are you in the market to buy a house? No. No? Is there any reason why you'd be in a neighborhood looking for a house? No. Do you think it's a little coincidental that several people said that they saw you in a neighborhood? I think it's, well, it has to be coincidental because I haven't been in any neighborhood. Patrick insisted that everything leading police to his doorstep was just one big coincidence. The witnesses who'd seen him in his van cruising through their neighborhood, asking about homes for sale, they were all mistaken. It was just a case of bad luck and bad timing. Good luck convincing the investigators, or a jury for that matter, of any of that. Tony, what's happened? Okay, Thursday, more than three different people identified you as coming to their place, inquiring about purchasing a residence. Well, they're mistaken. You want me to tell you how serious this is? I would appreciate it because I feel like I'm getting pretty banged here and I don't even know what it's for. She's dead. I don't know if you noticed when you walked in here, this is the homicide unit. Well, okay, wow. I'm sitting here thinking we're talking about burglary and we're talking about a murderer. As badly as I feel for this woman here, I'm sorry, but you guys are barking up the wrong tree and I don't care how hard you dig, you're not going to find me committing any crime like that. His lies, his evasions, the statements and the evidence, all of it made one thing clear. They were sitting across from a man who had strangled a woman to death. We can sit here and say, well, it might be somebody that resembles you or looks at, they picked you out. Not, not a friend, not somebody that looks like they picked you out. They had a conversation with you. A lady took your license plate number down after you came in and started asking some really, uh, what she, what did she call it? Some unsettling conversation that she had with you. Yeah. Yeah. With you and she said she would never forget your face again. And she didn't five different people who live in five different areas who all pick you out. I'm not, you know, you're being there, your van got your license plate. I mean that I'm not disputing whether someone thinks they've seen me. Okay. But I'm telling you, well, I can't explain that. I can't explain it. You know, that may be coincidental, but there's a whole lot. Coincidence is in life. I can't do nothing about that. I don't think that's a coincidence. Okay. I mean, I just don't, you know, too many people, you know, if it was one person, maybe, but three, four, five, well, not just this particular day, but another day that was a month ago. For weeks or probably much longer, Patrick had been cruising the streets of Austin in his van, playing the part of the classic. Predator. He wasn't looking for a house to buy. It was hunting for a victim. And tragically, he found one in Diane Hullock. I don't know what all you have that you're dealing with. Well, I'm dealing with a woman that's dead and I'm dealing with a neighborhood that's in a panic because a man came to several of their houses that same day. Some people spent quite a bit of time with that man. What am I supposed to say? Okay. Y'all want me to say that? I did something I didn't do. That's what you want. I don't know. I just want you to tell the truth. That's all. Well, I'm trying to, but you guys don't want to hear the truth. You want me to hear me say that I went up and. Who else would have had your van on Thursday up in that neighborhood that you've already put yourself in? Well, you know. Lost in a rainstorm. Who has your van? Nobody has my van except me. So, I mean, how do you explain that? Well, I can't explain it. A girl is dead in the same neighborhood that you were seen in by several other people. Well, that's suspicious. We'd be remiss if we weren't looking into that. Well, and I'm not knocking you guys for that, okay? I'm not knocking you, but if you want me to say something that isn't true. Investigators pressed harder, confronting Patrick with all kinds of evidence. But no matter how much they threw at him, it wouldn't budge. He doubled down, denying, deflecting, and then denying all over again. Well, I can assure you. I can assure you this one thing. I haven't murdered anybody. I haven't robbed anybody. I haven't burglarized any houses. And no matter. I don't care how bad it looks on me, I haven't done anything to anybody. And you can search my house and. Well, tell us what you've done. I haven't done anything. That's what I'm telling you. Were you in this neighborhood? No. You weren't talking to any of these people? No, I wasn't. Okay. Eventually, this interview ran its course, and to Patrick's surprise, the detectives didn't arrest him. Instead, they placed him and his wife, Janet, in the same room. The moment she walked in, Patrick broke down, sobbing and pleading with her to believe he was innocent. I'm so sorry you're going through this. But I promise you, I'll respond with this. I never did anything to anybody. And I can't explain it. I can't. But I can promise you, all my heart, they're wrong. But I can promise you this. Listen. I promise you this one thing. It doesn't matter what anybody says or does. Because I'm telling you, Janet, no matter what anything looks like, I'm not guilty of anything. After his emotional display, Patrick was allowed to leave the station. But his freedom didn't last long. The very next day, detectives arrested him and brought him back in. Up to that point, Patrick had flatly denied ever cruising through Austin or. asking about homes for sale. But now, he had a problem. At one of those houses where witnesses had identified him, investigators had found his fingerprints. When police released a picture of Rousseau, another woman called saying Rousseau had said the same thing to her. Police say fingerprints left in her home matched Rousseau's. Even with this evidence, the police didn't charge Patrick with Diane's murder. At least, not yet. Instead, they booked him on a parole violation, which was clearly a strategic move to keep a suspected killer behind bars while they built a stronger case against him. Part of that effort included executing a search warrant on Patrick's home. But when they did, Diane's engagement ring was nowhere to be found. To this day, it has never been recovered. Nonetheless, Patrick's arrest gave investigators a chance to find Rousseau. There's a chance to interrogate him again. And maybe this time, get a confession. Surely, I don't have the only Pewter Ford minivan in this entire town. You have the only Pewter Ford minivan in this entire town, or in the entire state of Texas, that has that license plate on it. That's true. That is true. I'm just saying, if someone wrote that number on my license plate down, then they're mistaken, because it's not me. Coincidences happen. If they didn't, they wouldn't be called coincidences. I'm sure of one thing that I didn't know. murder anybody despite the arrest and despite all of the evidence patrick continued to play his tired old game i'm a little frankly a little fed up with all this coincidence stuff it's not adding up and you know it doesn't add up and we know it doesn't matter hey and we know it doesn't look good but i'm telling you i didn't murder anybody okay you say you didn't murder somebody maybe you didn't okay but you were in that neighborhood tony and you talked to several people in that neighborhood they said that you were there at their home and it wasn't at four o'clock in the afternoon it was earlier than that and you've been in other places in austin doing similar stuff no sir with your van and your fingerprint being written down the license plate of that van was written down at another time not just this past time but another time i'm telling you that and you told me yesterday that nobody else drives your van except for you in the short time between patrick's first interview and his arrest investigators uncovered a few new details about them details that were deeply unsettling it turned out that the diane hollick case wasn't the only active investigation where the name patrick russo had come up you know what let me ask you something we called lake jackson yesterday and we talked to several detectives who knew patrick russo really really well we had some very interesting conversations about some cases that you were involved in that you were never filed on for and you know those cases involved those cases involve you choking women you tying women up and choking them you tying women up and choking them you tying women up and choking them i find that very interesting another one of those coincidences i suppose that's a coincidence naturally patrick had even more denials and excuses about all of these other eerily similar investigations they have multiple women over there that were choked by patrick russo and they all picked you out you can you admitted to the one that you knew you were busted on because you were picked out of that lineup i admitted to every single thing that i've been in trouble with you never said anything about choking any of those other women i got a tie in them up i i tied up one person when i had my nervous breakdown i'm talking about the ones that you didn't talk about i'm talking about the women that you did tie up and choke but you didn't talk about i have not tied up anybody and choked anybody really now i have assaulted a couple of people and i have tied up women or men they were women that's what i'm talking about they have at least five cases they got a stack of women who said yeah that's the guy that choked me you only told us that one because that's the one you got convicted on there's multiple cases that they could have filed on you and why they didn't i don't know and you know what they were like i can't believe he's out of jail there's several women that said you tied them up you tied their hands up okay how about the one who came out of her bedroom when the other one was tied up and then you had to tie her up too you guys are twisting things up because we're just repeating what they told us that's what they told us you need to read the police report don't listen to overtalk from 10 years ago because it's real easy to start confusing things you read my files and see what was said and written in those things and then come talk to me about them as the investigation into patrick deepened a disturbing pattern became very clear one that pointed to a twisted fascination with choking women that dark obsession was also confirmed by statements from his own wife he has always been fast i will say this he's always been fascinated with my neck i guess the last is the skinny little neck i mean i will say that he does tend to put his hand on my neck but if i say let go or i can't airway is getting restricted you know he's he always lets go i mean he realizes you know and what would you say if i told you that your wife told detective gilchrist that you choke her during sex what would you say to that i would say that what i do in my sex life is nobody's business it may not be but i think it's very pertinent to this case and what's happened here and what's happened in your past you like to choke women that's obvious why would you choke your wife during sex you guys after my phone call came in here and are instantly hostile why i don't know okay this is my life here this is my life it is it's on the line here right now i didn't do anything to hurt anybody else's life and yes i have a reason to feel the way i feel patrick kept up his act the cooperative wrongfully accused man just trying to clear his name but it never worked the web of so-called coincidences and mounting evidence have become far too much for him to overcome i'm trying to cooperate with you guys you know what you're not trying to cooperate you're trying to snow us you're trying to get over on it so they will think that you're this high and mighty religious whatever that is so much better than your past that you've done all that you're through with all that and nothing has ever been better than what you've done and you've done all that you're through with all that and nothing has ever been better than what you've done and you've done all that you're through with all that and nothing has ever been better than all that you're through with all that and nothing has ever been better than you're innocent you you're through with all that and nothing has ever been better than you're innocent you couldn't have been anywhere that you're innocent you couldn't have been anywhere that we said you were we said you were we said you were when the facts indisputable concrete when the facts indisputable concrete when the facts indisputable concrete facts say different quit all this crap facts say different quit all this crap facts say different quit all this crap about coincidences and and no i wasn't about coincidences and and no i wasn't about coincidences and and no i wasn't here no i wasn't there and get right here no i wasn't there and get right here no i wasn't there and get right admit to what you did and maybe we can admit to what you did and maybe we can admit to what you did and maybe we can get to the forgiveness part get to the forgiveness part get to the forgiveness part because this is just crap it's just because this is just crap it's just because this is just crap it's just and you know it and you know it and you know it like his first interview this like his first interview this like his first interview this interrogation eventually ran its course interrogation eventually ran its course interrogation eventually ran its course and and and patrick held firm to his story patrick held firm to his story patrick held firm to his story he clung on to his lies and refused to he clung on to his lies and refused to he clung on to his lies and refused to confess confess confess i'll tell you what i am i'm in a real i'll tell you what i am i'm in a real i'll tell you what i am i'm in a real big daze here because i can't believe big daze here because i can't believe big daze here because i can't believe this is happening in my life well you this is happening in my life well you this is happening in my life well you better believe it and you knew it better believe it and you knew it better believe it and you knew it yesterday yesterday yesterday you knew it yesterday you know exactly you knew it yesterday you know exactly you knew it yesterday you know exactly what's going on patrick i know what's what's going on patrick i know what's what's going on patrick i know what's going on going on going on i can't help it if i can't believe i can't help it if i can't believe what's happening well you know what what's happening well you know what what's happening well you know what we're going to prove that you did it we're going to prove that you did it we're going to prove that you did it and it isn't going to be that hard and it isn't going to be that hard and it isn't going to be that hard because you're there because you're there because you're there everybody saw you there you're just everybody saw you there you're just everybody saw you there you're just making it worse for yourself i did not making it worse for yourself i did not making it worse for yourself i did not kill anybody you're just making it worse kill anybody you're just making it worse kill anybody you're just making it worse for yourself for yourself for yourself while patrick sat in jail on his parole while patrick sat in jail on his parole while patrick sat in jail on his parole violation violation violation investigators kept working the case and investigators kept working the case and investigators kept working the case and before long they had enough to move before long they had enough to move before long they had enough to move forward forward forward formal murder charges were filed against formal murder charges were filed against formal murder charges were filed against them them them in may russo was indicted for the in may russo was indicted for the in may russo was indicted for the november 2001 murder of diane hollick november 2001 murder of diane hollick november 2001 murder of diane hollick hollick's northwest austin home was up hollick's northwest austin home was up hollick's northwest austin home was up for sale police think russo posed as an for sale police think russo posed as an for sale police think russo posed as an unaccused offender pleaded not guilty unaccused offender pleaded not guilty unaccused offender pleaded not guilty and what followed were months of motions and what followed were months of motions and what followed were months of motions hearings and hearings and hearings and seemingly endless days seemingly endless days seemingly endless days this is supposed to be a hearing where this is supposed to be a hearing where this is supposed to be a hearing where patrick russo's defense finds out what patrick russo's defense finds out what patrick russo's defense finds out what evidence the prosecution has against him evidence the prosecution has against him evidence the prosecution has against him but the judge decides to focus on other but the judge decides to focus on other but the judge decides to focus on other capital murder cases first and capital murder cases first and capital murder cases first and then postpones the hearing then postpones the hearing then postpones the hearing i'm absolutely innocent and i don't i'm absolutely innocent and i don't i'm absolutely innocent and i don't think that sitting around in here for think that sitting around in here for think that sitting around in here for two years two years two years my life it's a setback for russo and my life it's a setback for russo and my life it's a setback for russo and his family one of the things that i his family one of the things that i his family one of the things that i think has just really been frustrating think has just really been frustrating think has just really been frustrating is the fact that with all the is the fact that with all the is the fact that with all the postponements it doesn't seem to be postponements it doesn't seem to be postponements it doesn't seem to be a system that a system that a system that brings about justice the way that that brings about justice the way that that brings about justice the way that that maybe we thought it it would russo's maybe we thought it it would russo's maybe we thought it it would russo's family members don't want to talk about family members don't want to talk about family members don't want to talk about details afraid it might hurt the case details afraid it might hurt the case details afraid it might hurt the case but say they know russo's innocent and but say they know russo's innocent and but say they know russo's innocent and just want the chance to tell his side just want the chance to tell his side just want the chance to tell his side and get him home basically our lives are and get him home basically our lives are and get him home basically our lives are on hold right now until on hold right now until on hold right now until this situation gets resolved by 2003 this situation gets resolved by 2003 this situation gets resolved by 2003 patrick's case finally went to trial patrick's case finally went to trial patrick's case finally went to trial nearly two years after diane hollick's nearly two years after diane hollick's nearly two years after diane hollick's murder murder murder prosecutors laid out a chilling case prosecutors laid out a chilling case prosecutors laid out a chilling case they told jurors that patrick russo had they told jurors that patrick russo had they told jurors that patrick russo had spent months cruising neighborhoods spent months cruising neighborhoods spent months cruising neighborhoods around austin posing as a cash buyer around austin posing as a cash buyer around austin posing as a cash buyer spend stories about selling a ranch and spend stories about selling a ranch and spend stories about selling a ranch and insist on meeting alone insist on meeting alone insist on meeting alone they presented witnesses they presented witnesses they presented witnesses realtors and homeowners who identified realtors and homeowners who identified realtors and homeowners who identified patrick as the man who'd made them patrick as the man who'd made them patrick as the man who'd made them uncomfortable with his behavior uncomfortable with his behavior uncomfortable with his behavior then came the forensic evidence then came the forensic evidence then came the forensic evidence dna from diane's left hand that matched dna from diane's left hand that matched dna from diane's left hand that matched patrick patrick patrick and hairs found on a towel inside her and hairs found on a towel inside her and hairs found on a towel inside her home that couldn't exclude him home that couldn't exclude him home that couldn't exclude him as the source but what truly unsettled as the source but what truly unsettled as the source but what truly unsettled the courtroom was testimony from the courtroom was testimony from the courtroom was testimony from patrick's first wife patrick's first wife patrick's first wife she told jurors that during their she told jurors that during their she told jurors that during their marriage marriage marriage patrick had a disturbing sexual fixation patrick had a disturbing sexual fixation patrick had a disturbing sexual fixation that he could only climax while that he could only climax while that he could only climax while choking her choking her choking her in part that testimony helped prosecutors in part that testimony helped prosecutors in part that testimony helped prosecutors expose expose expose what they believe to be patrick's motive what they believe to be patrick's motive what they believe to be patrick's motive on his home computer investigators had on his home computer investigators had on his home computer investigators had also uncovered over a thousand images also uncovered over a thousand images also uncovered over a thousand images from an from an from an asphyxiation themed porn site called asphyxiation themed porn site called asphyxiation themed porn site called necrobabes necrobabes necrobabes dot com dot com dot com you're welcome weirdo To the prosecution, this wasn't just pornography. It was Patrick's violent fantasy, brought to life in the murder of Diane Hollick. Why would you all even think that I would do something like that? What motive would I have had to do something like that? I have no idea. Was it a burglary? Was it a robbery? Was it a rape? I don't know. I mean, that woman never did anything to hurt anybody. Everybody loved that woman. I mean, I haven't heard one person say a bad thing about this person. I mean, it had no enemies. There's no reason for it. None whatsoever. After learning that Diane had been murdered, her family, friends, and investigators all struggled to understand why. Why would someone tie her up and strangle her for no apparent reason? In the end, the answer wasn't complicated, just horrifying. Patrick Russo had a fantasy, an overwhelming compulsion to choke women. One that overpowered reason, empathy, and even his own fear of losing his freedom. What he did wasn't driven by rage. It was driven by a perverse need for power and control. Deliberate. Prolonged. Deliberate. Predatory and obsessive. This reality paints a chilling picture of Diane's final moments. We know that Patrick went to her home, tied her up, and strangled her to death before maliciously cleaning the scene and fleeing. But Patrick never confessed. The most haunting details remain unknown. How did he gain control of Diane? How long did he keep her restrained before. deciding to kill her? What did he say to her? What did she say to him? Did she beg for her life? Did Diane know she was going to die? All these questions, and so many others, will likely never be answered. Try to live my life and do what's right. I mean, you say that, but would you really admit to it if you did? If I did? Would you do the Christian thing? I mean, you. Well, I would tell you as a Christian. You wouldn't hide behind. You wouldn't hide behind this whole Christian cloak thing. It's not a cloak thing. It's a for-real thing. And as a Christian, I wouldn't do something like that. Patrick had spent years constructing a mask. To the world, he was a man of faith. A Christian. A music minister. A husband. A family man. But behind the facade was something else. He was a predator. Prowling for women and attempting to perfect his routine. And over and over until the day he finally struck. It's disgusting to sit here and listen to you talk about being such a devout Christian and forgiveness and how much you've turned your life around when this one coincidence after another, this whole thing goes back to similarities that I'm sure are coincidental back in 1989, 1990, 91, 92, you know? But you're this reborn Christian? And you're going to sit here and lie about it? The split between. The split between the life Patrick performed and the darkness he concealed is ultimately what defines him. And it's what stripped away any doubt about who he truly was. Not a man of God. Not a misunderstood soul. But a monster hiding in plain sight. Tragically, the person who paid the ultimate price for this monster's desires was an ordinary woman. Someone simply trying to sell his life for money. Someone simply trying to sell her home and start a new life with her fiancé. I mean, tell me what her daily routine is, do you know? Gets up about 8.15. Heads right over to the computer. Gets some tea. Make sure the dogs are fine. And she just starts cranking away till, you know, like noon. And I think she usually takes a shower and gets dressed, runs errands or whatever. And then cranks till whenever she needs to crank. So she'll go work out or go down to the town lake. She liked to go out to have sushi once in a while. She wasn't a big, not as of lately, the last couple of years, a big going out person. Mostly staying at home. She did a lot of eating at home. Her kids were her life. Her dogs, sorry. Her dogs. We'll call them her kids. That's what I call them too. They were very important to her. So she always took care of them. She didn't leave them by themselves. So she was, that was her, her family, I guess. On May 9th, 2003, a Texas jury returned a guilty verdict for Patrick Russo. But because they couldn't reach a unanimous decision on the sentencing, the judge imposed an automatic sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole, sparing him the death penalty. For investigators, this conviction was the end of a long and difficult case. For Diane's friends and family, it was the end of something far greater. A life that never should have been taken. As for Patrick, he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. Remembered not for his music or his faith, but for the false life he built and the violence that exposed it. ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ If you like that, and if you like things like that, head on over to swordandscale.com, download the app on your Apple iPhone or your Android whatever, and, uh, you know, subscribe to Plus. You can get all kinds of extra content, including, uh, commercial-free episodes of everything, including Nightmares, Sword and Scale, our old Plus show. Um, this doesn't happen to people like me. We've done all these other podcasts, so you can go get all of that stuff. You can get, you know, commercial-free versions of this show, uh, for the last 13 years. Again, this is episode 348. There's 348 of them, plus 100 and, I don't know, 50, 160-plus episodes, plus 60-something Nightmares. I don't know, there's a lot of stuff. Go get it. Go get it right now. Go get it right now. We'll be right back. Get up to 10,000 Sweeps Coins. CrownCoins.com. That's C-R-O-W-N-Coins.com. No purchase needed. CrownCoins Casino. You ain't heard about Modo Casino? Modo has real Vegas slots. Any game you can find on the floor in Vegas, you can play it on Modo. I like my slots hot. Modo's free to play. Like food stamps. In line at the grocery store. At a funeral. In traffic. Keep your eyes on the road. 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