Episode 34 - Real Talk with John Paul Saab - Business, Balance & the Super Debate

Let's go welcome back to another episode of the Superman podcast. I'm Lionel Emele your host and I'm pumped for this episode Get over on I'm at McCabe great to be back again Lionel for another big conversation Today on the Superman podcast we've got a guest with an ex extraordinary story interesting story is a builder a business owner a family man and someone who's been in the construction game for over 20 years His name is John Paul Sabe JP as he's better known and he's the owner and director of ID Fidout and construction JP has built a reputation for delivering high quality commercial design and construction projects across New South Wales But beyond the building sites and the boardrooms JP is a man of strong values a lover of fine dining a passionate Angler or fishermen and most importantly a devoted husband and father Please welcome JP round of applause, please Thanks for that rap appreciate it Yeah, it was a tough entry. I want to get that one. That was a nice but very humbly to hear I'm privileged today to have JP on unfortunately JP's I'm probably his best brother-in-law I would say that yep He's been calling me brought tried to call me brother-in-law for a while. So now but But yeah, JP thanks for jumping on for a podcast. I finally dragged him by the skin for his teeth to a podcast to get him in his nervousness. Yeah, yeah, I But today's just a bit of a general chat conversation welcome to the Superman podcast We're just here to talk about fine answers stories interesting stories and I think you've got a cracker story to pretty much share with the world that knows If no one really knows who JP's are be it so JP Tell us where your story began where you grew up what you did as a kid. Yeah, and what was what was life growing up? If someone doesn't know who you are. Oh man, we're it's a yeah, it's a lot thanks to the intro a lot You are definitely the favorite brother-in-law the only one surviving at the moment Sorry George, but um, yeah, no, I yeah humble Humble beginning still humble guy to be honest. I try to keep it quite simple keep life quite simple Started is the young bucket Marylands Marylands I'm prefer for you guys who don't know it's around you know paramata paramata area Also known as the Bronx of the west of you know the Kumballon Highway or Burnett Street exit. It's a shit. Oh, but um and We started started there mum and dad immigrant immigrant parents No English sort of speaking back around and they came across here in the in the late 70s And Nothing's a boat from Lebanon fresh off the boat made still smelling like salt water I'm probably a little quintex little five Five Mediterranean so um, you know they are came. Yeah, dad's a painter mum stay-home mum and You know that old immigrant sort of Mindset that you got to earn everything that you get you to work your back side off That's all we'll ever taught and one of five But a younger brother and one older sister and then two younger sisters Unfortunately, she's married one of my younger sisters married to some bloke in the back of Burke, but um You know you can't pick him she picked them she found the sweet out She found your family mate. Yeah, you can't pick your family Yeah, she definitely fucked us up with that one No, he'd been nothing but nothing but a breath of fresh air to the family to be honest Yeah, and um we just went no different to anyone else's upbringing really she Parents were pretty hard to get us through like a Catholic school Catholic primary school Catholic high school and Yeah, I would say definitely a massive blue collar crowd. Yeah working working long days and long nights and what was School like for you. Did you like going to school? You can't ask questions that a fuel boy He's knowledge of who I am that's unfair You you got to pull him up on that shit. We have a script here A little bit of script but I'm old say No, I had my my sisters as you know Dine and Felen Swear black and blue that I've got 80 h there. I got a very short attention span. I did struggle It's gonna be interesting. Yeah, you'll see me walk off come back. Well, no, I found it hard to focus in school I found it hard to take in information and especially information that I wasn't keen on Construction information D&T or woodwork Somewhere I aced in school. Yeah, but that was all she wrote. I still went to you 12 made it through to you 12 because Mum robbed me with a dog and said in the 10 if I stayed in school should get us our first Dog Jack Russell snooping almost out lasted the freaking pyramids He's wouldn't die this dog, but um, yeah, he was fed like a king But I said yeah, and he was a hand-pilled chicken 100% and that was yeah school was school was fun with mates and that I sort of love being a sort of a You know boys boy and you know sports with sport tragic as you know and and went through school and Didn't really have an interest in going to university ever Labored probably since I was six to be honest. We were working up at 5 a.m. Throughout every school holiday every every end of term holiday all six week holiday me my brother We were you know poke that 530 to wake up and say get up We've got to go painting and it was like wake up JP Go on to work and if I wasn't that's exactly what it was like and if we didn't wake up It was like a glass of water on the head or or a pinch of the toe, but yeah We wake up that and it's sort of instilled in us at a young age like like work with something that we had to do It wasn't a choice No, so we'd go and work and all our mates were at school holidays at Maryland's pools Grimble pools shout out to that shit over And yeah, and we were there sending door jams till honestly to help fingers blistered And we were just promised a happy meal That was the best we got Me my brother how the times of change how the times have changed and our kids now just don't even know what they got but I'm yeah and and and I knew that if I didn't go good in school I knew I'd have to take that construction route because it was all on you and I hated painting until today It's something about your dad's trade that you Live through that you end up hating I'm happy for you two gentlemen. Yeah, same old as your dad do Builder and you Look at these hands. You know we're near him. You know, like you got yes. This you got like nivia cream hands Yeah, but you know that's how these I hated painting I had a big family of mine that we're in construction. They still are today and quite successful at it But yeah, that's we I knew that if I didn't make it in 2012 it was gonna be a Long hard journey through construction, you know So it was yeah tough going but so leaving school where did you move into what was the trade of choice that you took On what may come along how long we were in that for what what did you do? Well, yeah, mums nephew and me mums nephews were in plastering partitioning so Gibrock drywall You know framing sealings that's all I that's what I went straight into I was actually quite blessed because it was the then later shaped the way I looked at fit out because It paved the way where not I would say 60% of fit out today offers fit out to heavily partition right walls acoustics glass glazing Aluminium door. So I only ever knew that path. I hated residential. I hated um You sort of worked for on people's emotions So if I'm you know renovating your house You saved up your whole life for this one dream home then you're picking apart, you know defects Yeah, please do this for free and give me this freebie whatever I hated that part of it, you know So I'm from there I did that for about three years and moved straight into commercial Gibrock in yeah for a gentleman called Todd Porter built right constructions here shout out to him. So he was a good man He taught me that you know Business was tough and he really had to fight for what he had Ultimate professional. Yeah, and from there we moved into the office wall of partitioning and and I then did my you know Further on down the track. I then did a builders So what would a day look like back when he started you broken well from what time would you leave Marylands? And what time would you get home? I would leave Marylands in a Mazda Bravo you I think 2500 bucks I paid for it had my own toolbox on it. I'd leave at 5.30 5.30 in the morning religiously was go time You know you'd be either Gibrock in a house in Kudji or Penroth, you know every day was different, but um Yeah, I'd leave it about that time 5.30 get back about maybe 4.35 every day Um that was straight out of you 12 Yeah, so I didn't really take any time off the travel etc When straight into that and that was it was fun It was fun because you got out of that school grind All of a sudden you able to have your own cash you were getting paid at the end of the week You didn't need mum and dad as much we won't go into what you're spending your money I don't know how sensitive podcast Yeah, some of the sensitive listeners want to hear your story Not all the story But yeah, you were a jip rocking for a number of years and then you sort of what happened after that? What's you started a business? Yeah, I went into the business. Why would why did you want to go into business to start off with? And like I said Lauren, I had a family that you've now come to know and and appreciate. People around us are all that blue collar working, working crowd, you know, working class, sorry, and everything around me, it mates, family, all worked and they were all entrepreneurial and they all wanted to pave their own way. They all wanted to make it themselves, they were all hustling hard. And it rubs off on you, I truly believe in that theory. You know, 100%, I think you're privileged to be in that environment because not everyone's in that environment. You know, you could be from some of the background that doesn't have any business in their life at all. So growing up is sort of naturally a progression that you move into. And then when you're in it, you're actually got people to talk to around you as well. And lean on us for advice. Yeah, and that's what me and Matt lean on each other for in the advice board. The advice board is large toward a degree, but really small in its own sense. And we try and lean on each other to help each other elevate our game, but you've got that through your own family setting where you'd go to maybe a family dinner and you wouldn't always be talking about business, but business comes naturally. It's definitely a topic on the table, 100%. But that's what I'm saying. I know it sounds cheesy, but that's why my hats go off to you and Matt. People that aren't around financial planning and you paved your own way and you came from that rugby league background. And you know what I mean? And then you took the chance to do that, but really never had a family network of financial planners or wolf managers around you. So I find that path a little bit harder than the one I took. But I'm blessed that I never borrowed a dollar, borrowed a cent. I never loaned any money. I never had any business partners. The advice was there, but it was free advice. And I'm so glad it was because you really had to like make it your own. And if you couldn't save that money and reinvest it in the company, the advice around you would always be there to lean on and give more advice, but no one's going to sit there and fund your dream. You know, it's. No one's doing it for you. 100%. So I was blessed to have a network of construction-minded people around me who are my best mates. Yeah. But the advice is there, yeah. But the advice is definitely free. But at the same time, the advice is there, but it's what you make of it. 100%. What you actually do with that advice. 100%. You can give the advice to a 100 different people and they're going to go and do 100 different things with it as well. And it comes down to the individuals, well, what they're doing, what drives them. So that's what we want to sort of lead into today is talking about. What makes you tick, but at the same time we want to still undercover your story at the start. So we're seeing so much. We're seeing so much exciting. We're fishing it out, but at the start time, when you're starting out in business, what were the challenges that you started off with? Like some of the major things that scared the shit out of you. Scary times. The first company I have opened get plastered in. You were. You wouldn't fucking write about it. Why didn't you keep that name out? I was a gybroker. I was a gybroker. I wanted something catchy. I wanted someone to laugh when they read it because I like a bit of humour. And so I established get plastered interiors. Then some people would ring out, but some people would take you that serious. So it was a one man band literally with a you and a toolbox. And get plaster was the first one. We never bring that name. I don't even know where it is. I don't even know. It could be still around. I've seen it like get. There's heaps of different like get pumped, you know, for concrete pumping. Very, very in Buella Maloupe. So some business owner down he's probably got a somewhere signed that up for get plastered. Plenty of pumped ready. On a Saturday night. Yeah, 100%. That was the first one. That was the first one that I left. When I left Todd, when I left, Bill Wright went out on my own and I registered the company and I was so naive, I did set set. Look, people know me as a gybroker. My mates, my family, they know me. They know I'm a gybroker by trade, plaster by trade. I was just going to go out on a limb, I'm just going to get my own ABN and get my own phone number for my own business and I'm just going to sit by the phone. I'm just going to wait for it to release. And this way for people to start ringing in. Yeah, because it would have been ringing hot right at the start. Yeah, try six months of not a phone call. And then that's what. And that's what builds thick skin. That was a scary, scary time. Yeah, that's the hustle. That's where the hustle starts. Yeah, right at the right at the start, you've got to dig deep, get into the trenches and go and try different things to go and speak to different people and all that stuff. And it starts at the start, but that it only just gets more elevated as you move in over time. Man, 100% on the grind was hard. At the beginning, it was tough. Waiting by the phone, waking up every morning, you're trying to save up for property or a car, whatever, or putting money back into your business. And you're making maybe three, four hundred bucks a week. Yeah. Over one partition or one patch job. And then that guy would tell of May and that guy would say, "Made, I've got a pre-war price, partition or plaster." And then organically, that's how I grew. Organically, the word got out that I was a partitioner. Then projects became large enough for our needed two or three off-siders or, you know, framers or sheaters or setters. And that's how the team started to grow. But it was six months to a year of just grinding, trying to get your name out there, trying to talk to builders that I knew, going to meet them for coffee. And they're not going to really take you that serious because builders at the time, building jupies and townhouses and high-rise apartments, they could see you physically as a one man band. They've got no interest in you. How old were you when you started that? I was 22. 22 is old. 40 fresh. How had a time flies. But it was scary. And it goes on that, doesn't it? Like, can you remember back it? Can you still remember those days and your back in? If you talk to me about them, I can remember vaguely, like times and parts of them. So what were you, like, key learnings from those days? If you were to look back 18 years from now to wait and what would you do different now? If you were to restart all over the end of the 22-year-old. What would I do different? Honestly, the only thing I would, I had, I won Lodilla London. I had balls back then. I'm not joking, big balls to do stuff, that 21-year-olds that were my mates. We're still at Mikanos. And I would come back from a trip three weeks early, that hang around for four weeks late. And I'd come back knowing that if I was to spend the last 5-10 grand that I saved, I had no more money to reinvest in more. I took a punt where if I had saved 5 grand, I would then use it to actually bring on two or three partitions, even with no work. So I'd use that 5 grand buffer over the month to try and chase a bigger project. And I would go and aim for a high-end home at the back of Manley or sea-force or fresh water. And tell them that I had the numbers. I had the manpower to finish it in two or three weeks. And then once I won that project by negotiating and the gift of the gap that I got. That's the one thing you do. I would then win the job and spend that extra last 5 grand I had, no word of a lie. On those 5 trades, they were sitting there doing nothing. But if anything different I would do is I would probably spend a lot more time networking, not being so nervous to approach builders and developers. And that's what people learn me over time, but you don't know until you're in it. It's a young kid. But yeah, guys listening to this and Cooper, you should be listening to your dad. Yeah, all right, you need to know that. They've got different walled. Yeah, they do have a different walled. But at the same time it comes back to the same principles that you learn at the start of life. Hard work, hard work, you've got to work, hard work. You've got to make sure that you're in it to network and speak to people and always be have an open communication with people. Never close down or shut the door. There's one thing I learned. It's so many people. I think I was 22 years old. I finished a entire juplex and I had quoted the whole juby for about 20 grand. And you know, 20 grand for a 22 year old. You're probably making at most 20%. You know, the guy just said I'm not paying you. And that's it. There was probably 10 grand left. And that was the gem. And he said I'm not paying you. He said, man, why is it I'm not paying you? You don't take me to court, take me to court. He just did set chose to not pay me to enhance his profits. And you know, I said, oh, you know, the owner's not paying me. I'll pay you when I get paid. I pay you when I get paid six months, one year. Excuse us. Eight months. And then I lost that 10 grand and then pick up and start again. I don't know if this new generation has the ability to do that. Like, I know there's this young chap here in front of us running the podcast, but I look at these people and you want to hope that they still got that grind. You know, like the 21s and the millennials and and you want to hope that they've got that grind and they're willing to wake up and come to work, you know, an hour early. Stay back an hour late. I just, I don't see it often enough. Yeah, tough times create tough people to be honest. So when there's not tough times around the hope sometimes just falls away because it's too easy to go and do something else. So easy to get a full-time job and not worry about the game. There's no resilience. You've got to train and teach and force resilience into people, you know what I mean? A hundred percent. Resilience is showing us with kids. Yeah, yeah. Under five footy game. There you go. You don't keep school until like under 15s or something now. - Yeah, what a cop out there is a bunch of people. - Like how are kids meant to learn about loss or winning or losing? - Competition. - Man, they don't give me so, I don't know how sense of this podcast is. But that's what I'm massive on. Ingoble is his son by the way. Like when we were under fives, under six of them, a someplace league in soccer. - We keep school. The parents would keep school and we were very vocal about you lost. But we had a network of parents that were all, but that had all bought in to make sure that kids knew that he was a competition, even though the paramount is true. - Don't worry, my son still realized he lost. - He still realized he lost and he was disappointed. - He better that. - Yep. - And you should tell him how many loses, but also congratulating when he wins. - 100%. - So that's the same life. - It's all about winning. - So when you do get an old life and you're 21, 25, and you do get setbacks of people not paying, it's not the first time you've ever had a setback in your life. - Correct. It's not your first setback. - You've learned about it and your parents around you. You've had people around you. - It's not a shock for our initial setbacks. So yeah, it's not a shock. - That's a great point, man. Like, I don't know, he makes me nervous. Like, I've taught my son and my three beautiful daughters to have that grind and have that, I don't want a shock of later on. It's the real world. And even till today, there are clients that choose to not pay their final payment and now you're talking not 20 grand. - Yeah. - It's all a big $1. - Shout out. (laughing) - Shout out to everyone. - Just out to everyone. - Yeah, no. - There's no bleeping in these podcast as well. We're one of the short wonders. So you say, they will hear what you say. - Yeah. - Shout out to the Scott who has been paying for three months, but no. - You know, I don't know. I just, lessons learned from the old JP, I tried to live with no regret, to be honest, Lionel. I love the fact that I made heaps of mistakes. I tri-tru-tfully hand on heart love how many mistakes I made. And heaps times, you cry yourself to sleep, you beat 4 AM, walk in the streets, thinking about your next move, thinking about how you come out of this 10 grand hole that you're in because this guy chose to not pay her. It really, really shapes how much and how I react in today's rule world. And it helps me really deal with the stresses of the rule world today. You know, playing on a bigger playing field with heaps of a times where people have chosen to not pay 200, 300,000 dollar in voices. And then push the boundary of take me to court, you know. And then you've got to fight that fight, you know. - I don't reckon I would have that fight in me. - You wouldn't have the reason. - If I didn't start earlier. - At those 530 wakeups when I was six and seven. - Exactly right. - So that's the lead into that now. So tell us what inspired you to start IDFUTEouts in construction, which is your current business. Tell us about your business, what you guys do, how you do it, what sets you apart from the rest. - Bill Wright constructions, the guy that I left as a commercial fit out guy. Sorry if I'm not looking at you a lot because I've got a massive nose. - Well good. - I'm trying to look at that way. - Yeah, well, I'm trying to look straight every now and then. - Side profile for you guys if you do get it. (laughing) It'll be large. (laughing) - It's kind of terrible. - But yeah, and the headline comes in and you know. - Oh, I don't talk about the grays. - She is, are we going. - I'm not zipped in, is it? - No, it is. - Hey, it's there. - It's there. - That should be a pretty soon. - The definition on the camera is higher in this set. - It's a pretty cool podcast. It's epic shout out to Warskow. - Okay, massive. But yeah, back to what I was saying earlier, Bill Wright constructions, they were a small firm. It was only like him and I. And we're only really fitting out work in Northwest at the time, smaller pocket. And like I said, I had a network around me that were entrepreneurial, that were gone from Jubis to Tionis to high rise. Whether I liked it or not, it was instilled in me to grow. I had known that I can't ever hit a flat area. I'm just not designed, I'm not programmed to ever just say that I'm gonna only work and design 200 square meter feet out to the rest of my life. There's no driving it for me. - The ambition. - It's not the money, the ambition. I've got to wake up every morning pumped to go to work. So, he wanted to stay in that lane. I wanted to grow. I asked for a, if we were to come in as a partnership at the time, sort of laugh at me. 22 year old LeBot Kid from very hands. With a goady and earrings and a white coral necklace. And he said, mate, no fucking chance. But so I said, mate, okay, I'll prove you wrong. So, that mindset of that challenge to go out that built ID fit-outs that was get plastered. I interior by design projects. Interior by design line. And the interior by design was the ID. And that stuck around, I'm quite honored to say that I've never touched wood. You know, bankrupt or liquidated a company. It's always been the same ABN and just the name changed. Because interior by design, people bring in us thing, work attacks. - Yeah, that was too long. - 'Cause you were in business for a few years and that's when we met through your sister and my wife. And me coming down the Sydney, I was looking for work, doing some work as well. And JP would give us some work sometimes. - Some labour in work, 100%. - Was it any good? - He's in workhorse, most guys are mischievous. - You know what says, you can, not say for me. - Country boys. - The country boys. - Can't beat the country boys, man. - That's the, you know the thing is, you see an entrepreneur coming them all away. Because they know they're in it temporarily. You know, it's hard to explain that to anyone. It's hard, like he's there as a labourer, knowing that he's making cash for something else. He's not in it to labour for the next five, 10 years, on the move. And then you seem like JP, as his labourer, why don't you do this? Why are you framing so early? He's just like, never built anything in his life. Why are the plumbers on site now? You know, and the site managers on site talk it to him as the labourer. And he's there saying, mate, it's all wrong here. I'm thinking, mate, where do you find three of them? But what we've learned, even our current head of operation shout out today, but we talk a lot. He's been in the industry for 27 years. And we talk about those entrepreneurs, they come across your desk and they keep going. And you think they're only destined for bigger things. You can't hold them back, you know? And he was a late came in here just for, you know, some cash and some labouring and 100% like, you know. - How's the demo? - Your sister. Unfortunately, you know, my sister's ringing me saying, look, I know he's a deadbeat, giving work. Now, now, there's a machine, there's a machine worker. - Now, I was privileged. I was privileged because I was, I needed money living down Sydney coming from Dubbo, moving down the Sydney and-- - It's massive. - You live, I'm living by myself with a mate as well. There's no sort of like family support for us. It's like, here you go, go and do it on your own, move down the Sydney and start playing footy. And then when that doesn't work out as well, or while you're training at the same time. So I was pretty much at uni, going to uni, doing the fine-trip planning and accounting side events. - That's the high level. - Playing footy semi-professionals while training three nights a week. - Body getting back. - And then at university, and then I do landscaping during the day. And then when I could pick up some extra hours, I'd ask J.P. if he got any work on tonight. He goes, I'll go to this site at North Sydney. - There we go. - Grab the keys here, do that. Grab the truck. Demo the whole office. And take it to the tip and then go home. - Honestly, I would ring felon my sister. I love it at the earth, by the way. But I'd ring her behind my back and say, you know, down the disk I go. - Not because I was charging me at a 70 bucks an hour. (laughing) - And you know, - Body coming out. - But you know, that's actually a good one. Don't edit that out. - But I would like, I would like tell her like, this guy's doing it with a smile on his face. And she would, she is, and she is a, she is a ballsy chick man. She'd be like, we're here to build a future together. She loves sending emails, she loves being structured, loves, you know, loves sending things in place. And he's a guy landscaping during the day in 30 degrees, plain league, you know, getting bashed for three days a week in training, then plain. And then ring your mute and say, what can I demo? - Yeah. - Crazy. - Show me where they go. He's show me where the, show me where there is that in the middle. - It's very beautiful. - Show me, and I pray to God it's out there. And I just haven't seen it. We had a cadet start last week. Sorry, it's not last week. He left last week. (laughing) - It's the week before. He started a month ago. And we teamed up with this company where they bring us university graduates. And he wanted to be a project manager. And we told him he started as a contract administrator. And the goal post shifted. So we said, okay, you're not gonna learn nothing in this office behind this screen. Get out on site, run beside the site manager. And get to know how we do things. The site manager got him to labour for about four weeks. Four weeks, that was the end of him. He just said, I could not face the early starts, the dust on me. I'm not here to sweep floors. It's a good kid. Good honest kid. But it wasn't winning just to say that, okay, I'll just gonna keep it quiet. I'm gonna bite the bullet. I'm gonna prove myself for two months before JP and ID Fidiat's give me a shot at the office role. He's gone, up in smoke. The leading candidate in that sort of training facility, up in smoke. You know, parents, doctors, you know, very well-educated kid, but probably has never seen that 5.30 AM work wake up. - He wants to do construction management, doesn't like dust. Work that out. You know, it doesn't like to work on site, you know. - That's the problem with today's society, but there's so much, so many other options out there. Whereas back in the day, we were like going before our days, if you had a job, it was a privilege to have a job. - Yeah. - Not about just. - It was a badge of honor. Oh, I've got a job. Oh, I want to keep this job. But I want to lose the job, because it's giving me income. I don't know whether I'm going to get another job. Whereas nowadays, it's like, oh, he can go from the next one to the next one and it's the next one, type thing. Pretty easily as well. - That's what I was going to ask you. Look, there's an age gap between you and I, in different age categories. And there's a massive age gap with these two gentlemen running the podcast. Is that a wall? I don't know. I don't know the social media world. I've never been in front of a camera. Ever. But is it because you guys have an opportunity or you know of younger blobs to have, is it because it's easy to make money on YouTube or. How come this so easy to set the part ways with jobs? Is it because. - So many jobs out there. There's so many people. But there's. - Because no one's willing to work. - So many jobs out there and there's not as many willing to work. So finding talent is hard. Or someone that actually wants to work. - Because they can balance. - Yeah, because they can balance. And there's so much more money in the world these days with parents, - And employment rates, - Unemployment rates, - Unemployment rates, everything. - Yeah. - Far, yeah. - And at the same time, there's so many more businesses out there in the world now. Not as many people here in Australia. That's why we need skilled people in the workforce. So, but in saying that, like the younger generation coming through, there's so many different types of ways to make money now. - Yeah, it's not just about going to work, finding a job. - Not job. - There's seven different ways. The social media, the internet. - That's massive. - Has played a massive way on how you can actually get rich. Like this, young kids on YouTube, reviewing toys and. - See, it's a wall, I don't know. - Shit like that, where they're actually getting views from you being a cellar. - Six people being paid. - Yeah. - And they're like five, seven. - Seven years old. - Seven figures, seven years old. - One of the richest kids on, richest people on YouTube is a kid that just reviews toys. - What? - Just reviews toys. That's crazy, that's unbelievable. So, there's not so many different ways about it. - Different walls. - And what is that, okay, then, but what does that kid now do? Is he retired, 18? (laughing) - Oh, what does he do when he's 18? - He's 25 and YouTube's dried up and nobody wants to hear him. - Yeah, exactly. - He's a guy that looks a bit creepy, reviewing kids' toys and everything. - He's 25. - Yeah. - But I'm saying that, the thing is, that's why a podcast is pretty powerful because the podcast goes on to the wider stream audience and it can be replayed and replayed and replayed and the streams and the views keep going. So for him, he all these videos are on YouTube, which is gonna be an ever-evolving stream. - It's so that the stream is. - And they just will be that kid. - And people just keep clicking and they keep getting paid. So it's like an annuity of income stream coming through. He's always gonna have people coming through and watching his videos. - What's the idea for YouTube gentlemen with this podcast? - Why the podcast? - Yeah, well we started the podcast, me and Mattie are both financial planners and always it's better to have a sounding board to talk to each other about the shit that we go through a day-to-day. Clients, family, life, business, all that sort of stuff. So we just sort of said, like what, instead of talking about it all the time between us, we're actually keeping all the information away from someone else that can actually go out and learn about that stuff. So we said stuff that we all-- - Let's just start a podcast. Then we set a date and said, let's just do the podcast. And then we got to the date where we were shooting a podcast like, Mattie, what's the name? (laughing) - On the day? - What do we do? - On the day. - On the day and I'm like, and that was our sort of stalling point. We didn't have a name. And I sort of over time with clients, when I go out and see my clients, I go out and see them in person, talk to them in person, go and shake their hand, do like the team, coffee type thing, the old school away. And a lot of my clients, when I would go out and see them, they'd say, oh, my superman's coming today. They started watching. - No, they started saying that too, my team and their friends. - My superman. - My superman. - My superman's coming today. - Oh, they led you to the name? - No, they were saying it to me. And I'm like, what's gonna trigger for us to something short, catching in sharp, that actually really displays what we do. And we look after super-innovation, we give advice on super. So I was like, we are the superman. - I was in Crackers. - So it's Crackers. - I shout out to everybody that gave you that name first. - Yeah, there's quite a few old ladies here. - And they were shouting it out. - Yeah, every time I would say, oh, are my superman's coming today. And they're telling their friends. - I love that. - Yeah. - You love super-innovation. (laughing) - Hey, GBR, I love it. Yeah, I do love it, yeah. - Now, what do you love super-innovations in my life? - I just tell the order, this is probably the one of the things where I was like, should I get my brother in law JP on, he can spin a yarn, he's got the gift of the Gavin can talk. But at the same time, this is my one big fear of all the listeners out there, hearing from the superman podcast, why you love super-advice, super so much. - Oh man. If you love reinvesting your super like Matties and people that I know who can reinvest it and turn a good profit with doing that, I just don't like the concept of making money into a pool that I can't touch till I'm 60. I just see the world in a light where I need to be spending the money that I make with my four children and my wife now, today. I don't have this concept that I don't wanna do tomorrow what I can do today. And I use any aspect of my life. If I feel like going for run, because the body's aching or whatever, I might wake up tomorrow at crook and I've lost that opportunity to run today. So I will run with a body ache. - Tell us your real story where you're at, like, super. - Yeah, but, you know, I don't like spending money and, and, and. - Is it the tax rate? The $15,000? - No, is that. - Or when you get to 60, the zero percent capital gain. - Man, when you get to 60, there's no energy in the body and you can't be, you can't be, you know. - Shout out to all our listeners over the age of six. - Yeah, and then listen, take the advice from these gentlemen, I'm a little bit erratic and loose. But, and I mean that in the sense that I just want to make money and enjoy that, that pool that I make through investments on my company with my children now, creating the memories today. That's all it is. And people like that safety net, people like that nest egg for later, that safety barrier when they, when they're, an entrepreneur doesn't see, in my opinion, this is only my opinion. An entrepreneur doesn't see what he can do at 60. An entrepreneur wants to see it and make it and live it today. - It's a bit like the taco ad though. Remember the taco ad with the little girl, the soft shell or the hard shell? - Which one? Which one? - One of them? - One of them? - One of them? - One of them, JV. - No, why not both? I agree, why not both? You can definitely, definitely have, I actually have both. I just hate it because I don't, I hate, even if I turn a good profit through the super, I don't like knowing that it's there, then I can't touch it, then I've got to reinvest it again, then I can't touch it again. - Even though I'm already 40 today. - The big thing is a lot of business owners, they can't access the super money. And that's a conversation that we have daily with our clients as well. - And what's the life around it? - Well, we, well, we, - But you guys, gentlemen, truly believe in super. - Right, but. - Yeah, 100%. - Because of the tax rate. - Yeah, it's the biggest thing. - I can't get you a tax rate of 15%. - No, no, that's, - Or 0% from 60. - Fak. - Anywhere else? - Tax free. - That's the big thing, that's what I thought. - That is the most attractive thing. A lot of people that work nine to five, and my father-in-law's one of them. He worked a nine to five job. I think for 40 years, that Vizier is cycling. Didn't really invest his money elsewhere. Was happy to live that Aussie dream of paying off your mortgage, making sure you owe nobody anything. And just chipped away at that, did that well. And now is happy to live off the super. And I find that, and to your credit, you're helping your followers and your clients reinvest and make sure that super money increases over time. - Well, he didn't do much of that. - Yeah, we are educators first on the advice piece. We've got to educate clients on what we do and how we can do it. So the education piece comes into it first, you know what I mean? So you've got to understand the concepts behind each person's scenario, a business owner compared to an individual page you go, employee has a different mindset on money. - Where is that? - Employee, can business owner can go out and, if they want to work extremely hard and do long hours and long hours and days and meet new people and have a lot of potential for making generating revenue activities, they can go and do all that stuff. Whereas an employee has a set income, sort of based on what they're, their capital. And they may have a bonus if they're lucky in their employee and arrangement. So you've got to, help them choose wisely, which direction is more appropriate for them based on what they want to do long term. Oh, agree. And the harder the piece is, the harder it is, the longer you are out from 60, the harder it is to determine which way you go for the money. Do you pay down your debt or do you put money in the super? Now we know as advisors that as an average, like the investment returns, you can't really guarantee the returns, but if you're investing in funds that have a higher growth allocation, usually it should outperform what the interest rates are on your home loan. On the long term average, so that means if you've got money in super, when you get to 60, you can actually transfer the super account into this thing called a pension account, and then you can draw the money out tax-free. It's tax-free money. That's the game changer. That's the game, friend. The only part we disagree with is that you can do is that 60. Yeah, exactly. I want to be dawned that when my dick goes with my right. So then you just get away out whether it's a pre-game. I just want to be able to do that when you've got the energy and the stamina to do that's all it is. And again, people who work 9 to 5, 7 to 3, it's very hard to get that cash flow now and build that capital now. Exactly. To reinvent. So to say it's a life stage process of what you want to do, what's important to you? Do you want to live life now? Do you want to reduce your tax and put some money in the super? It's horses for courses. Everyone's different. But to your taco thing, can you do both? Well, I don't care. Can the supermen, if the supermen are achieving both, then I'm all in. Do you know what I mean? If you can show your clients and your followers that you can do both, I've never had that sold to me or told to me, you're welcome. Free advice, maybe in podcast, man. I was never a guide that way. And again, back to our culture, our bringing and the circle around us. What are the Lebanese think of super? I don't know if you've got any Lebanese clients. Not many. Yeah, I've got this gentleman here from Wyscast, laughing out as if he looks like a levo. But he's no says at all. But you know, I would say that it's not instilled in you to build up that super fun. It's been on to cash. Cash king. Man, I'm telling you to my grand mindset that makes me a emotional talking about it. If I told you what our parents came here with, and there's no question that the European, the Middle East and community built this country, in my opinion, those immigrants that came here, built this country, whether it was through construction, whether it was through medicine, whether it was through civil works, whatever it was, I truly believe that to be the case. Because I've gone back and looked back at our past generations and seen what they've done and what they've achieved. And all of them have the same sort of mindset, work hard, get that money, reinvest, whether it's buy a property, to sell it further down the track, knock it down, build it, renovate your house on sale. There's no real attachment to the Aussie dream of buying your own home and just paying it off. Just paying it off, it's not enough, Lonel. You know what I tell you, you can hear it in my voice. It's not something that I'm giving you as my opinion, it's a belief. That comes back to the legacy and the family things. That's what I'm telling you. My mum's for spent probably the best part of my whole teenage life calling me a donkey because she felt that it was an absolute failure to leave and not go to university because she felt that if you go to university, you become a doctor and engineer, you become a builder, whatever it was, it would take a good paying job. You can make a lot of money to reinvest. What about you? Look at me now, I'll take it. No, I'm a long way from looking me now. Honestly, I'm not. I see people, my clients, I would say my bare minimum client, no word of a lie, we have 200 million. We're dealing with private landlords, we're dealing with institutions. You know, we're dealing with the charter halls of the wall, Dexes, Stocklands, Investor. And then you've got the private Singaporean money. You've got private Chinese money. They've also paved the massive, massive path for the way that I look and see things. They drive you so much, seeing the way they live, the way they are ruthless. The ruthless in their mindset of work, not the way they deal with people. They're ruthless in growing, they're ruthless in trying to find that next deal. I'm being so fortunate and blessed by God to have seen that around me for the past 15 years. Those people, when you look at them and then you look at you, you may as well place me into that pot there with all that bark. But it's kept me like massively humble. And my faith has kept me massively humble, my family. The best part of keeping humble is people like you, people like my cousins that you've met who are my best. There's about 10,000 of them. There's a significant network of wealth amongst those six or seven months. And you go to a dinner and we're going to kick that out of a dinner right because we're too loud and rowdy and sometimes drunk. But the thing is they keep you humble. No one talks about business in that dinner, in that barbecue, at that baptism, at that community. And we're talking about how ugly your pants look or how you annoy fallen or how I stuffed up at the soccer game on the weekend. It's been something that's been so life-changing because it keeps you so grounded, whether it's a house, but on the Hawksbury for three days. We're just hammering each other, fishing and playing cricket and volleyball. The wealth has never, ever paved the way. We're driven by how well you succeed as Superman makes me so happy. How well made of my George Carham has built BF money. How well M.I. Connors grown into state. These, I know I'm doing a favourite share now, but these guys have been around me as my best mates my whole life. And they've paved a massive way to know that you can make money and still have the drive to grow because we're not driven by the greed of money. We're driven by success. I'm trying to success mean to you. Man, I heard this saying once that, "Pumin, and I, as Long tells you, I never cry. I don't know why but I never cry." I heard this guy say success is my son and my three daughters wanting to hang out with me when I'm, when they're 40. That's success. That's, that is something that I, whether they buy into the business, whether they become, whether they take their own path, I want, like I spoke back to the super, I want to make the money now to create a platform for them where it's filled with memories, family dinners each night. Me never miss a game of soccer or a game of league or gymnastics or Acro. You have to be that success. For them to hang out with me when they're 40, don't worry about any more podcast. Anyone who tells you anything else has no success story. I'm telling you. Unless you don't have kids. You know, if you have kids and they want to be around mum and dad when they're 40 and they're married and they've got kids or if they're single and they're travelling and they're checking in on you every day, I heard this guy say, "And almost brought me to tears." I think, and I'm driven by that every day if I can make and build a platform that my son and my three daughters can say, "You gave it a massive crack." Then you think, they say, "Oh, dad was always there." You know, what's the point of making five, six hundred million and you blink and your kids are 20 years old and you've never seen them. You know, we've gone and have in Lillie. If you were, you know, you travel a lot for work and it kills you and I know it kills you. But you could only imagine that sacrifice you're making now. But I know you never miss a coach, a coaching day, a training day. You work your life around being there for the kids because what's the money to you if you blink and your five-year-old son has left leg, he's 18, he's hanging out with chicks and it doesn't want a bar of yaw and you're stuck in the office still working chasing what dream. That's how I see success. If I can work hard now, if I can't wait to spend my money at 60 because I'm in the office nine to five, seven to seven, seven to ten, seven to eleven pm and then I blink and my son doesn't want to know me. Fuck success. You know, forget it. What's all that? That's the thing. What's all the hard work for when you, at the end of the day, you haven't enjoyed the relationship. Built the relationships over time to be able to enjoy your wealth over time as well. 100%. One of the client that I have, he was a son of a doctor and he talked about how his dad would always be, always leave. He would never seem in the morning. He'd never seem at night. He'd only seem sometimes on the Saturdays and Sundays. That was like for 16 years and then when he got to the point where he was like growing up and he's trying to live his own life, his dad wanted to come back because he had made the money then. See. But still I missed the opportunity throughout the course of his whole childhood life. It's too late. And that's what makes me upset. A lot of people, especially in my industry, especially in my industry, big worth players, right? Big money makers. I often give them that advice and I feel like that's why they gravitate towards me because I'm not driven by money. Fair enough, I love success because I feel like my own man didn't give it a red hot crack. My mum's short, given a red hot crack raising five kilos. but he didn't give it a red hot crack to make it. And I feel like if I can give it a red hot crack and Cooper and Harper, Indian Willow, can see the red hot crack while still being in their life all the time, they know that they can still have a shot at giving it a red hot crack through hard work, still waking up early, still coming home after a hard day's work, but knowing that we're still at family dinner at 6 PM around that table. You can still work around that. Once they go to bed, you can always open up a laptop. You know what I mean? Exactly. So yeah, it's strange. I just hope we talk about that more. I mean, not me in this podcast. I hope people start talking about it. Society, that. All right, man, it's mad that Elon Musk is worth $150 billion. But you guys, Kim, if he'd give that all up, if his kid said he didn't want a bar of 16, he'll ask Elon Musk. 13 kids from 13 different miles. Oh, how many kids he has? Yeah, I don't follow social media. Is this you have that many kids? 14 or 15? Get out of town. I thought he had one. He's got a rocket. And he's got a rocket. That's a massive, yeah. That's a massive ego play. But I don't know, man. I feel like if you keep that mindset, good things come to you. Yeah. You know, and working hard is fantastic in still in the kids. But you've got to work hard for something. Yeah. And that's what's, that's what I'm going to actually. What drives you every day? Like is that? That's not for me, but for everyone else. Yeah, if everyone else. I've got joeves, JP every day. Again, the old man just never had a red hot crack. Can't will the fair be, spend a bit of all the money that was ever saved. Worked hard, worked his ass off. But wasn't willing to make the sacrifices that needed to be made at the time. And I'm definitely willing to make those sacrifices now to build and build a platform for the four my kids to be proud of what we built. I always look at a lot of our clients who've got generation walls. And I think, man, I wish I ever got ten bucks to put towards my Mazda Brava when I first bought it. But it made me who I am today. So I'm blessed that I never did. But that generational wall, I wanted to say, you know what, I'm going to start it. I'm going to start a generation generational platform for my kids to hopefully take and expand for their kids. But I want them to do that. While they remember only the three pillars of faith, family and fitness, which is health, you know. So their three pillars that get spoken about a lot of my ham. That's what drives me along. My four kids and a cracker of a wife that's stuck by me since I drove my little daughter had to charade. Now, how to fork is a gist of you, man. And calling in the back in case you know, overheated every time, that's how she met me. That's who I was at 18, man. I'm not a word of a line. Now we can't do it. I had to charade red. I had to charade with a fork as a gist. Good things come to those who wait. It hasn't she fucking waited. It's done a time. But she's done a time. She's done four times an hour of an hour of an hour of an hour. I guess she's done time. But that's what drives me. You know, I like, man, you got three kids. I'm not sure I'm going to make you two kids. Man, why are you waking up in the morning? Same thing. Same thing. Same thing. True. You know, I hope you're not. I hope that's why. You know, if I could preach anything, even for to anyone. It's until you have a kid, you know, that you've got to build them a legacy that they can be proud of. And IDFIT-outs from where it was, to where it's still got to go, it's still got a long way to go. A long way to go. Until it gets there, I'll keep driving to get it to that platform to show my kids that. Starting with nothing. With absolutely nothing, you can still build that dream. You can still build a legacy, you know? And I hope you can. So, talking about that platform and legacy, what about from the investing side of things outside of business? Yeah. Why don't you say that you've been in the property market, investing, D.A.'s, developments, jumped around, you've learned a little bit. No, no, no, no. You've learned a lot to learn. But yeah, I've been blessed by God to be able to do this. I've been blessed by God to be having a company that's cash flow driven. And I invest a lot of that cash flow back internally into the business, whether it's growing the team, like I said, in 2011, there was four of us. Four years later, there was six of us today, there's 27 of us. So, that's money that's been reinvested and not spent. I don't drive any fancy cars. I don't, I don't definitely don't wear any of those one I'm able to wear. But yeah, I don't do any of that. I don't spend much money on that. So, I've been able to reinvest that money in property. I love only because I love it again. It's all on you. I love it. I love, I love a fixed rupor. I love flicking the odd, you know, the odd shit is house in the best street. I love, you know, purchasing a property that has potential, you know, rezoning value or a property that has the potential, like we've, I bought a couple of houses that then got. We went lodge the A's for, you know, co-living homes and they've been a great cash flow asset. Co-living like boarding homes. Yeah, they've given them a new name now. I've enjoyed doing that with other, other syndicates and partners and on my own. Look, when the cash flow is there, you can choose. You either refinance that GDS and, you know, spend your entire month in campaign off what you so-called own. You know, or you reinvest it in something that's got great capital growth and doesn't appreciate. You know, I don't think property. For whatever, you know, for its cycles that have come and gone in my time, I just don't see property in Sydney's phenomenal country. I don't see it depreciating. It might go through a cycle here and there that might make people a little bit nervous. But over my time, it only goes north. So in saying that, a lot of listeners here are younger people or they're just starting out. What would you give them some advice about? Save that 20%. Save that 20%. Work your arse off. Give up that Kentucky too over and down then. Get that 20% of that home or that suburb that you've id out as an investment, you know, as a great investment location, whether it's around a great new, you know, up and coming town centre or a great university, you know, a train station, you know, we know the infrastructure. Infrastructure areas that are up and coming or an industrial play where they've got a great, you know, long-standing tenant. I think Sydney, the Sydney property market is out of room. You know, as you, as the closer you go to East, you wonder why they never go see after just physically ran out of land, you know. I just don't know if you can go wrong with property on that North Shore Eastern suburb, you know, Lion Eastern suburbs. And outwards is booming, you know, whether it's that that Penra Therrier or, you know, around Badrish Creek. Now, no, it's a bigger play there on, on bigger land, bigger land plays. But those up and coming guys, save that 20%. Get that figure in mind that you think you can save, you know, think about maybe saving up that 100 grand. Go to your broker, go to your banks, talk to a man, they're there for you. I'm telling you, there's ways of getting that loan and. Your financial planner, even? Your financial planner is the greatest, the, I'm not just saying that, I'm not fucking giving that a shout out. I did say great start, the financial planner. Get that 100 grand, go speak to those financial planners, banks and brokers. Find out and single out a pocket that you want to invest as a goal. There are still properties out there, you know, $600, $700,000, $800,000. Look around that Queensland pocket, you know, Brisbane's booming. There's an opportunity everywhere. But if you don't invest the time, if you haven't got your e-s to the ground, if you're not speaking to agents, across the board and interstate, get to know your agents, get to know your sales agents, speak to them regularly, build rapport with them. Because if you're called called an agent, make no mistake. They've got 20 or 50 or 100 other relationships that, you know, that they've built and that they trust, you know. So build that rapport, buy into property. I don't know, I can't advise much about shares. Shout out to one guy that once sold me some shares or told me to jump on some zip shares. You know, zip, remember that zip that was after pay, after pay platform? I thought you were talking about zip, boilers. I got plenty of them in the warehouse, but I'm zip, zip shares. So I spent 30 grand, bought them for $12 a share. I think today there are 80 cents. I think that was the first and last summer bought shares. That's one thing about, that's called concentration. You're concentrating all your money into one share. Yeah, yeah. That same guy gave me the advice. What is it concentrating? Concentrating, so you're putting all your, it's concentration rich, where you're putting all your money into one asset. The one advice, the one in charge. That's opposed to diversification. As opposed to diversifying. As opposed to diversifying across multiple different asset classes. And is it mainly, is it mainly blue chip? No, we usually give advice on investing into an index, so you buy a group of investments. So like the S&P 500 is the top 500 companies in the US. Right. You buy every single company in the index. Or 500. Or 500 at one time. So as you go, the market as that index goes up, your obviously your money goes up. So it's a lot lesser potential for volatile periods. Are you allowed to disclose your biggest return for a client? No. Undisclosed. Can't name the client. You can't say how much money you've made for a client. No, we can't really, it's our advice. We can't do it. But you can't say how much money you've made for one client. But we're not there to go and try and tell you this is our best performing fund. We're not, we're, we're, we give the investments as a facility to go and make money, long term, make money. But we're not there to go and glow about how much money we're going to go and make for a client because that's not what gets us clients. We get advice, clients for a strategic advice. That's fair point. When the market goes up, everyone wants to jump on the back of the co-tails and ride it and enjoy it and they love making money. But when the market, when the market, or shoes, whatever it is, when you're constantly on that advice to your clients. When the markets like at the moment, they're crashing. The US markets down eight or nine percent in the last month. Everyone was like, oh, we're freaking out. Oh, our money's going to, we're going to lose our money. Like it's a cycle. There's investments. So they're just going to come in and sort of just come and down. We've just come through and educate them and come and down and tell them, like we look at their positions to see what, what, what all assets are and what assets can we actually go and use now for their retirement income needs. How much money do they need at the moment? It's stressful on your own part. It's stressful, but it's an edge. When did you get phone calls from you? Yeah, well, I said at the moment, we were like, the markets down eight or ten percent at the moment in the US. And they're like, oh, I am, I'm going to lose my money. And we're like, no, we're not going to. It's just a market cycle that's trumps doing his thing. He's putting a bit of pressure on the rest of the world. The markets have been going too hard for a long period of time. It's at some stage they've got to pull back. They can't keep going. And that's the education piece. Yeah. I've seen people off the ledge. The ledge is if they're all the market, all the money is about to drop. The values are dropping in over time. We don't want to sell down when the markets drop down in value because you're losing money then. So we're educating them to talk, to step away from the edge. Look at their position. Look at what their long-term plans are. And make sure that they're going to be all right. Yeah. And they trust you, I'm assuming. You want to hope. 100 percent. That's one of the big reasons both Lionel and I go physically and meet people. I love that you do that. I genuinely love that you do that. If you're dealing with people's whole wealth, you want to push them in the eye. And you agree business is personal. It is, it is. You're buying the person. You're not buying the business. How do you think is your biggest challenge to earning that trust? Initially, with a new client. Initially, it's the education piece. What? So, I think it's showing how much you care about them. And it's not about us, the clothes we wear, the cars we drive. Any of that? It's them. It's about them showing how much we care before showing how much we know and how we can help. And at the same time, it's doing, it's not working. And it's doing what that is. And all set at the same time, it's doing what you say. We can talk about all the different advice and strategies. And we're going to do it and help people and show people and people by drawing Mr. Screegle on a paper to show them, this is how we do things. This is where we do it. But actually going through and actually doing what you say earns the trust that way. Because you actually be able to show them and help them move through the process. And you know the financial planners. Do they have a lane? Look, have you specifically chosen old people? Look, look, look, pensioners. Can you target 18 or 20 bucks? Yeah, you can target any client. Have you guys built the business model like targeting a specific age that's just like an example as a builder has an example as a builder. A builder can go and build all different types of buildings. Right. Commercial office fit outs, residential granny flats. That's a good. That's a good idea. There's the same analogy. And one builder can do all of them at the same time if they want. But if he focuses on one area and becomes really good in that one area and sticks to his lane, that's his lane. And that's his niche. And then for us, for me, for example, retirement planning is what I do all day, every day. That's all I do at the moment. Because I understand the conversations, I understand what their needs are. And I can go through the whole process really easy and help people understand their financial issues and come up with a solution and then go through the whole process just to make to take their worries away from them. I don't like that theory. I like the niche theory. Yeah. Because I'm a teen coffee type of guy. I go down, sit down with people, shake their hands. Shake their head. They doubt of a coach of boy. And then, but our conversations, like in a meeting over time, become more about the personal side of their life. The financial aspects is like 10, 15 minutes of the whole conversation. Sometimes even less. They're like, what do we have to do now? And they go, oh, this is what we need to do. This won't need to change. This is how an impact you'll portfolio. This is what's happened in the last 12 months. And then given projections to say, this is how long your money's going to last for. That's what most people are worried about. How long is my money going to last for? That's the biggest fee that my. That's what feeds the life out of me with super. Look, that money is how long they've got. They see it as if that's how long they've got. Don't give me wrong. A lot of people invest as well, and I have super back. But that's crazy. So that's the finance world. But we want to sort of finish on our last 15. We want to finish on the lifestyle side of our channel, of our listeners. We talk a lot about finances and business and all that sort of stuff. But going back to our lifestyle piece, which is pretty important these days. But I wanted to ask you, JP, how do you go from being a professional design and fit out construction director? Yeah, here we go. A fisherman that adapts to his seeing that grows a beard and becomes like a caveman. Yeah, it's about guttering fish in them wrong. What is your real first love? I think it's an outlet. I love fishing. I love golf and sports. I love league. I run the rugby league track, soccer track, football, as I like to call it. I coach the under-nines. But yeah, fishing is mad. People tell me like, I'm 100 miles an hour and I can talk underwater, blah, blah, blah, don't stop. And there are some reason. Yeah, and there are. For some reason, out that ocean, when everything stops, you've got no phone reception. You're offshore. God knows how many kilometres. And I think a big factor was that when I took it to Cooper, my son, and he took a real good like into it, it's like anything. Like if your son really started bonding time and he started loving it, so he started YouTube and it all the time, then I started to want to YouTube more because I wanted to know more than him, because I like when he looks up at me and I'm sort of giving him pointers not the other way around. Competition. The competition, right? And I just liked the fact that he wants to spend time back to what I said, right? And then I changed boats. We had a small tinny, then I went to a bigger tinny than offshore, we had to go to even a larger tinny. We had a big tinny. And offshore tinny. That big sis tinny. That's a 7.6 metre yellow tin. But it's a closed cabin. Tiny tinny. So offshore. I made a funny big out there. But it's a different wall out there. And I just love the fact that I can turn off for a bit. And just, yeah, you actually get a lot of ideas, you actually think a lot about the week that was. Why is that because it's calm and settled, there's no distraction? Yeah, and the phones are ringing. You know, it's even at home, you know, you're dropping off Acro picking up my daughter's going as training, whatever. It doesn't really stop. Fish in is like when even our fish with Lionel heaps, when you're offshore or when even you're in a creek, river, whatever. It's just you that ride the country music in the background. And hopefully those fish. And I love that. And I'm another outlet is I, obviously, I coach the Unmessun Soccer team. And I'm very invested, as you can see, in my children. So yeah, he's got a very high-paced lifestyle. So having four kids, a wife, a business of 27 people in it, it's crazy. So that outlet, I find, is five or six hours on a Saturday. Because when you do take the time, you actually have to take the time away from all that noise and distraction. True. If you don't take the, if you don't step away from your phone and take all those phone calls, you actually don't get the recharge. Never. It's a bit recharging that. And I live off. I love the stress and I love the fast pace, the fast pace of anything on my life. I've been, but I feel like if I didn't do that, I would definitely be burnt out. The fishing and the soccer and the league and all that. And spending time with my daughters is, yeah, fast, tune the week. But you can't drive a Formula car 24 hours a day. That's a great analogy. Driving at 24 hours a day, it's just going to blow. The wheels are going to come off. The engine is going to blow up. You need a refill it every month. What's your getaway, man? What do you do to unwind? Sport. There you go. Let me guess with your kid and your son. And your kid, yep. And also watching rugby league. There you go. Shout out to who, which league team? Narsini Bears. The Bears. Bears. That's my backyard, you know, Narsini Bears. Try to jump on the, the Knights, but yeah, as a, oh, so you're not a Knights fan. Oh, you want to just put that on record? We might need a note. You get your coach. One edge up. Now I was born down here. Oh, you're born here. Newcastle based. So yeah, sport. The outlet. You need it right. Yeah. You need the outlet. So yeah, fishing is definitely hard. The agenda for as long as Cooper loves it. Yeah. So yeah. Well, I think we should leave it on that note. Yeah. Because it's been a cracker podcast. Thanks, Jay. I appreciate your time, mate. Yeah, sorry if I spoke too much. Sorry. Sorry if I spoke too much. Sure, the editing can help. Speaking is what you're really good at. Have we stopped recording? Not yet, we're still rolling. If you're new to the podcast, make sure you like and subscribe to our podcast at the Superman podcast. We're on Spotify, YouTube, and all the main platforms out of the podcast. We're going to put JP's business down in the link as well. Yeah, thanks for JP coming on and giving us his time. It's very valuable and he doesn't have a lot of it all the time. He's spending an hour here with us being great. So if you do need someone for an office video, make sure you reach out to the team at Idae Filiets end construction. That's it. And they can sure get the job done. No, I appreciate it a lot. Thanks Matt. Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me.