Episode 33: Rodney Schick

[Music] Connections cast. What do you buy TDN, Australia and New Zealand? [Music] Hello, I'm Angus Roland and welcome to TDN OzZ's Connections cast. Long form conversations with leading thoroughbred industry figures presented by Newgate raising top-class race sources. Today's guest travelled the world as a younger bloke only to realise there's no place like home. The dynamic future of a blue chip operation with plenty of modern, God knows what else on his gum boots. He spent the last wee while channeling his inner elm of fat, playing publicant in the Volks Red bar. Oh yeah, selling a few horses. Roddy, Shik, welcome to the podcast. We'll start the way most farmers start talking about the weather. I gather it's been a barmy in mid-twenties over there in horse country while east of the Great Dividing range at least OzZ has been spontaneously growing web feet. Yeah, we've had the most amazing summer and the autumn's just the summer that hasn't ended. I much prefer the sunshine and we're still good enough we wouldn't keep our grass growing but yeah those heavy tracks are definitely interesting. I asked this of David Ellis when we had him on but was it a bit weird seeing dynastic a graduate of the farm when a caracan million earlier in the year and then not have to go out to the sales ground the next morning. Could you celebrate a bit? Well we did actually it was a fun night I had my 17 year old son came up with me and and Kusen and Mike Ren who did those part of the operation we went up together and yeah we did have a good hit out. I was really different you know you know we're obviously we plan for the best scenario for the Australians to be able to get in and the borders been open and unfortunately we we must stay one though but we're looking forward to January next year. A sort of return to normality. We'll come back to Dynastic later he's just one of the galaxy of stars to come off the farm over the years let's just give our listeners the bare Windsor Park stats. You're hovering right at the 50 group one winners off the farm mark there's more than 160 stakes winners. As we record this Windsor Park great Volkswagen has the record for the most New Zealand Australian Championships since Fox Bridge in the 50s with eight the all faded Thorn Park also now to one of those you've had high-shap and starway both when Dua rewards which is surprised for combined Australian and New Zealand earnings horses off the farm of one group ones in and tell me if I've left one out here in New Zealand Australia Hong Kong Singapore South Africa Ireland and England you've won three breeder of the year awards. It was Japan amongst it. Oh there we go I did leave one off there you go add in Japan. Yeah you're in velocity yeah. Yeah of course of course man what a journey and what a what an honor all that's all academic though right I want to talk about people first because if you don't have good people you don't have a farm. Your old man Nelson he's not a big guy but he casts a long shadow your mum Sue is a dynamo your well bred we'll get into your journey in a little while but do you remember the moment that it became clear that you were actually going to be a decision maker at Windsor Park? You know I'd always worked on the farm from a young age and which I loved I loved the farming side of I loved the horses so I had a you know really good grounding when I was younger but it was probably when I went to London thought I was gonna go and we were gonna pub and just get away from the horses for a while I got to London I spent two weeks in London and felt sick so to fix that up I shifted straight to Newmarket and I think that's when I really decided I know what I want to do. It's very much a family run business Windsor Park but not all families are sunshine and rainbows and the shicks have had their moments but through it all you guys have endured. So mum and dad start off with silver dream and then bought a horse called Starway which let things are a light really. He had five group bumpers and his first crop you know it was pretty huge so through the 80s was a pretty amazing time and then mum and dad separated when I was 15 I think so early 90s but in saying that they remain good friends and we still run the business together so my wife and I own a third and my mother owns a third and now so now I'm just third so it's been pretty awesome that we kept it all together and all remain really good friends. The fact that not only have you been able to operate as a family under that dynamic but the operations actually thrived. What was the conversation with mum and dad like when you came in as an owner? Oh look they're pretty amazing people really. Dad's always been this both my parents I mean this is mum's been a huge part of this operation from day one and still is but they've been people that when they give you a job it's your job and they leave you to it and I've been very fortunate to work for you know before I bought into the stud and I was very fortunate that they that's how they treated it like great role models on the farm like Steve Tillard has been with their family for a very long time but once once I sanded the reins you know that's your job to do and they just let me get on with it and if I need advice I get advice but I've never ever felt I've been underneath someone. You mentioned Steve there it's not just the people with shick for a surname that a family at Windsor Park you've got some you've got some people that have been on the Windsor Park pay rolls longer than some of our listeners have been alive and I I hate to use a corporate word with you Rod because you're one of the least corporate guys I know but culture must be fairly solid at Windsor Park. How do you how do you build that what is the culture at Windsor Park that keeps people there for so long? Well it's time to mum and dad but always about the people you know love bringing good horses but we're surrounded themselves by good good people on the farm and it's just continued and you know for me I like working with my friends it's a long day at work and if you don't like the people you work with she's long old day so you know if I don't like you don't work here and vice-versive people don't like me I don't think they stay you know we've got some great wonderful staff and I can't mean a lot of people been here a long time you know Mike Moran I met when I was working with Johnny Morrison Sidney he's been with us for he'd be in the 20s late 20s years now and you know Alan Jones he runs one of our farms he's been with us 35 years yeah look it's it's important to me I like being able to have good good strong discussions with everyone you know Nick Hussin who's joined our team in the office you know he worked for me as a young man and came went by rugby in Hong Kong and he's come back so he's been at back a couple years Lee Hawkins from the Wentwood family he's been with us close on 20 years he's a business manager so look we we do put a lot of time and effort into that and I think it pays dividends sort of sought the the week from the chaff and the the week tends to to stay on and flourish a bit so not only are your staff loyal they're also pretty clearly on their own behind for a lot of the staff have pretty good record as breeders themselves right yes yeah so the big thing we've always encouraged them everyone to invest in into either trading or breeding whatever but I've got six people on office and five of them have bred one with us so in two of them being rural escut winners and so you think a little bridge so that's it's it's pretty awesome that we can have an office where we're all breeding to high standard and actually you know getting into investing how do you keep them in the office when they're independently breeding group one with us well I think that's the most important thing we have a lot of fun so yeah there's a lot there's a lot of banter every day you know someone's got to be in charge but really there's not really anyone in charge we all just uh you know I expect people to get on with their jobs and we have a lot of fun and these guys you know they're making money and as long as they can make money and be successful we're hopefully you know people stay in there they seem to do that so yeah it's working this podcast is brought to you by Newgate raising top-class racehorses Newgate has built a reputation not only as a leading stallion farm but a leading stallion nursery in the last few years alone yelling buyers could have purchased stallion prospects of the quality of champion first season sire better than ready vinery studs cool more studs stakes winner exceedance jubawi's group one winning champion two year old of South Africa willow magic group one McKinnon stakes winner and young western Australian sire awesome rock Cambridge studs champion two year old sort of state and new gates very own champion two year old and golden slip winner stay inside newgate raising and consigning top-class future stallions what about you as a young fellow I mean you were you were a teenager when starway was doing this thing and you mentioned briefly but he he's side first five group one winners in his first crop I mean that's pretty remarkable we we think about high shaper-ells first crop when he got a Victoria Darby winner a corefield cup winner and a star myler who also happened to try factor the barbie and that's not even mentioning so you think but starway's first crop was right up there with with that crop what are your memories on those days I look like so mum and dad very hands on and you know they're still are I mean they're both you know still working very hard but I tell you right now it would probably be a bit different avoid a stallion ahead five in the first crop you know with I'm what little bit of a different lifestyle they were still hard yards working hard so it was fantastic because we're you know the horse were winning and it was it was great that was fantastic times to grow up but as I say I mean I think he stood for $50,000 and it was sort of 86 or something like that so you know it'd be a lot of money now and so I'd have a lot of plans for that if I had one more time. At the time you're probably more focused on I don't know riding your bike around the farm or something like that. Did you get much time for getting out and about it or did Mum and Dad have you on the tools? No we've always been involved in the farm and brother and sister you know we always always doing ealing trips or mucking out or whatever even from young age we were making boxes out and stuff but yeah we had a great time on the farm growing up and those you know there was a pretty fortunate lifestyle. The worlds are different place but is it a similar story with your kids you're a pretty prolific side yourself. Do your kids get out and about on the farm? Oh yep they do. You know I was during lockdown when I were stuck on the farm here for a month and you know a lot of the farm has become more corporate or had become more corporate and you know a lot of things had changed in terms of having little people running around but through lockdown I sort of shut the gates and went back to the days when we were young and my kids just flourished and it was great now that they love the farm and they use it as their playground. Your son's 17 as you mentioned coming up to that period where the school's over and that sort of thing will you be encouraging him to fly the nest to have a bit of a look around the world? He really enjoys horses and I'm sure he would love to come back to the farm. He's actually started working for my brother so I've got a forestry hardware business. I just said to him you know just go and have a look at something else for a little bit but I don't think it'll be that long for you. I want to get a muck set again but you know it's going to go and learn something else to start with. But he's a chip off the old block. You did a fair bit of work experience. You cut your teeth with Bruce Harvey who's one of the world's great bridges between that breeding and racing world. Bruce Ann Maureen worked for them and they were fantastic. I did a summer in him when I was 14. Unbelievable at preparing e-lings and instalar. They're the great horse people so I learned a lot there and I was likely enough to live on the farm over that summer. I worked at Mappley for a pet conel for a while when I was 18 and looked after Volkshed in when I was early years. Being off Windsor Park and being at Mappley probably allowed me to do things like that where you know we're under the eye of all the other staff. And then yeah Johnny Morishwell that was a great experience. He was a great man. Really enjoyed working for him. Very kind kind guy but we had Ruzin in March here at the time. Ruzin had already won a Stedbroker think that March year was here and so yeah it was a great time and I learned a lot from he was you know tragedy to lose him early. Tragedy to lose John who a lot of people say had a sort of something special. There was an X factor to him that not a lot of trainers have and you referenced another tragic horse in this case. March here. I was actually there the day that he we settled about John the day that he died so it was really sad. He was off to start after that and heading up to Winnock think. He was a beautiful horse and great nature and yeah it was it was it was just gutting me know for you know I was only young and it was probably the first you know around the hype of the horse and it was you know it was a sad day so you know those things happen in racing but you don't want to see it. No and you said yourself you were gutted I mean you're you're a farm kid you've grown up around loss your entire life but there's levels of loss and you get to know an animal like that. Look at heartbreaking really and you know when I'm in my head my first year of a day of my career the thing is that you're fine with most people in this industry where there's people that are working on the studs or the people that are in the studs. We actually love our horses and it sounds a bit of a cliche but you know we're horse people and any of those sort of things are really hard. You can't stay dead enough people say people think saying you love the horses is just a throwaway line but I think more than ever in 2022 it's important to really stress that but these these animals aren't commodities to you. Yeah and the thing is you know a lot we own the business and the financial gains and losses are ours but you know when you see the people that are a part of our farm in terms of you know the staff on the farm and they go above and beyond what their job reference is really and it happens all the time you know I'm still heavily involved in all of the following and you know when there's a tragedy in your seat six or eight kids jump out the windows of their houses to get out of the house. Yeah you know that that that that that warms your heart and even when bad things happen it actually is great it's not it's not a great thing but the team it really summits your team. What were your first impressions of new market I mean that's make it for horse racing people right? Well it was pretty funny really because I just want to do it on my own so I cruised up there and I went and saw Paul Callaway who trained Starway and I thought oh this will be an easy one you know like and I'll never forget he is sleeping the door with the broom and there's house door without with the broom and he said I haven't got a job with jumping jump on the truck and big old rockweather in there took me up to the gallops and I thought I was feeling a little bit cheapest you know as I think I was 19 but anyway he didn't have a job I was probably I'm not the lightest person in the world so riding I can ride and I played a lot of polo I'm ridden a lot but I wasn't going to be a track record rider so I was struggling to get a job so I went and saw an old mate of of dad's Josh Collins who was probably one of the leading bloodstock agents over Zera who there's a great man to and he got me a job with a very far a Yorkshire so called Mark Tomkins and away I went down to get a job with him which was I fell on my feet there. I imagine Mark Tomkins and John Morris were chalk and cheese as personalities. Both were very strong characters and I was very fond of both and Mark he taught me some very good lessons. Right so there's a there's a rye grin there it was a pretty good time to be with Mark Tomkins it was probably his best era he had a good horse called even top what did you learn about the horses from Europe that has sort of stood you in good stead in your current role? Oh look I think I went to 18 different tracks while I was there I put my hand up every time a horse was travelling I just wanted to go places and see different tracks so when you're looking at pedigrees now we've had a great you know with horse we've bought a lot of horse out of England and when you know the tracks you know the class that they are and those different tracks so I was pretty lucky I walked a lot of them and and I got to look after I got to look after even top there and he just gave me a great opportunity you know I wanted to work and I don't there was another Australian guy the equal Jeremy Gasky who I became he was the head lead there we became great friends and he went on to being a successful trainer and he's training in an Aussie now so we we we had a we had a we had a lot of fun together. Speaking to Jeremy yesterday he suggested that perhaps Mark Tomkins actually liked the Aussies and the Kiwis the Aussie and Kiwi mentality kind of fit his straight talking no nonsense nature would that be a fair call? Oh well I'll tell you a little story with Jeremy and I we both had girlfriends at the time and they went off to Greece for the weekend and we thought our great opportunity to hit the nirose many people being to new market was the place to be and I think I'm going to be the first listening that don't know. The nirose is not an Italian restaurant so anyway I think I've been late twice my working life and this was one of the we pranked a bit too much my woke up and I was daylight and I went running into the governor's office and Phil who was the secretary at the time said no the governor doesn't want to see it and he was very fond of second people on the spot. Oh wow yeah. He said six people one day was working there so he loved the sack and I remember running and I said look to you you've got to let me see the governor so finally let me in the door and I said look governor I've got no excuses. Jeremy and I went to the nirose last night girlfriend's away drink too much and slept in and he said he stood up and he has like six foot four and he said to me in 25 years of training he had never had anyone use the excuse of being drunk for being late so that was a good lesson of being honest because he more or less you get out of the art and get back into it but look yeah it was a great experience and he was a you know he's a champion bloke but he was pretty fond of giving you a tune up when you needed him. Daily Stallions new in 22 Palace Pier champion three year old champion older horse champion Mila five group ones Kingman Sun and Dare plus the chamadiles are coming mold breaking juvenile Pinotomo a three time group one winner an unbeaten champion two year old and Victor LaDoram group one winner at two and classic winner at three in bread to Helen Street the dam of street cry, sire of winks and grand sire of Animo, Dali, sending the shuttle standard. Bob and Abby must have been a change of pace from Flint House but the Duchess of Bedford took a real punt on you, right? Henry has been fantastic to me. They just started coming to New Zealand, I hadn't met them in New Zealand and they'd had gone and introduced herself to her. I met her at the sales and dad wanted me to go and buy a fillet so she helped me select go, go to recent fillets and we selected a ferry king fillet which we called Winnevea and subsequently she invited me to come and stay at Wobin-Ali which was a great experience for a backpacker in England. I remember getting the taxi there and the taxi driver wouldn't drive up to the house because he was not a house, it's the neighbour and the informer let us, you know, he took us to the door and Roger the Butler came out to meet us so it was a big eye for me. He had the backpack on the back and got to stay there for a week so it was a great time and Henry was just fantastic to me. Did the Butler let you enter through the front door? Did you have to go through the service quarters? He even took my pack off my batten. Oh, yeah, Roger is a great man Roger and a big part of their life. Before we move on, that fillet winner there, she's still relevant today in 2022. This is where Dynastic ran into the story, right? Yeah, so I bought her a partnership with a great client of ours, John Thompson, John Margaret Thompson, they've been clients for many years and so we bought her, we've kept that family going right through and I say Dynastic is a mulch in my ears, a granddaughter of a whinever. So it's a good story and it's been a good family for us so yeah, look, it's, you know, it's a first family that I brought into myself. Yeah, really cool and what a great learning experience for you and you either had a real thirst of knowledge or you just wanted to prolong the backpacking thing because then you had state side. Yeah, well, I was pretty keen to go to America and learn about managing. I thought that would be a really good skill to be able to learn. Well, I was staying at Wavernavi, Dr Rick Redden was coming over, the world leading expert in Lemon Otis. So I got some meet him with Penreda and Henry to ask if I could go and spend some time with him, which I was luckily enough, he accepted and I got to travel to America and work with him and it was one of the most important times I think in my career in terms of what I learnt here. So he was just an amazing man, just very thought outside the square and he taught me a lot of the outside of courses but just thinking outside the square in terms of the way that he operated. Was there a eureka moment with him that you saw what he was doing and we're not doing anything like this in New Zealand? He just took next to nothing and very inquired differently like he really beat the gone mechanics and mainly for Laminate courses. He was actually doing amputations in that thing. Really? Wow. So he just was quite inspirational really. We had a stallion there that had a, he lost his leg below his hop and he was running around in a hill paddock with a prosthetic leg on. So he was a Tennessee walking horse. They didn't have a lot of value but yeah, the story was quite amazing and he breathed me with a prosthetic leg. So it was a pretty pig leg, his name was but it was an eye open to see what you could achieve with being in the bounds of still being humane to the animals. You know, we had another Philly there that was, she'd lost the leg at the fetlock and he'd grafted the frog tissue from the other foot into the stump and she drew frog tissue on that stump. So she had a prosthetic leg but he was quite, his inspiration sort of got a work pool. What an innovator. That's extraordinary. So what lowered you back home? I was probably just trying to get home. I did four, I think four months with Doc and so it was time to come back and probably a little bit of a home body too. I mean, I loved the travel but I loved the farm. I went back home and yeah, been here since. Look, it was a heck of a time to come back because a horse you've referenced a couple of times was becoming a virgining superstar at this stage and that's Valk's ride. Now talk to me about the unique Macleys stud arrangement that you guys entered into because it seems like it was probably close to one of the first of its kind. So at the time the Macleys stud was owned by the Davidson family and Mac Davidson. You know, he was second generation and just at that time, Stanley was probably wanting to do something a little bit different and we had Steve Till in a guy at an Irish school, a guy called Pat Connell working at Windsor at the time and probably wasn't enough space for both of them, both very, very talented guys. So he did sort of set up an opportunity where they set up a partnership with the Macleys partnership. We're Mac and Megan Davidson, we're in Windsor Park, we're in the Steve and Pat pool in quarter shares and it was all to do a bloodstock. So they didn't own land, they just don't brood me as an instellions and Pat and you had no involved thread as a yearling and when he came up for sale, I'm through one of their auctions. One of the dispersal cells up there, they nailed them, I don't want to get it wrong but I think I was 18 to 20,000 can he say, paid for him out of the sale and so he just really set those boys on fire when he came out. It was pretty much a sensation from the start for New Zealand so that partnership built up to a certain point where it was doing very, very well but Pat wanted to go back to Ireland so that partnership was dissolved and that's when the maltrait is made as she holds the maltrait, he came back to Windsor Park but it was quite an inspiration, it was a pretty cool thing to do for Steve and Pat because they deserved the opportunity and they were very good in their field so they both did very well out of it. It sounds quite similar to some of the partnerships that are growing up at the moment, that concept of not necessarily a land base but a bloodstock based partnership is now a lot more commonplace than it was back then. You referenced a lot of human teachers but I suspect Volkswagen was one of your better teachers full stop. What did he teach you about Stalinga? He taught me always to keep your eyes open. He was awesome, I loved him, he was quite an aggressive stallion, he was probably documented and he tongued a few people up but he always allowed you to know when he was in a bad mood and if you let your guard down he would teach you not to. Unfortunately I always kept my guard up and I was never got grabbed but he grabbed a few people around with a few war wounds. I was going to say did you learn from others mistakes or you were lucky you weren't the first one in the bad at the end? No, I was really happy when I was really happy so I knew you were a long time but I saw him grab a few people and he didn't want to happen to me but look at the day they are with that. He was from an aggressive stallion, I loved them to bits because he warned you when he was not happy so it didn't come out of the blue enough if you did get grabbed you were not on your game. So you look in when he was injured they had a few injuries over his life. He turned into a lamb so he was a great character and he was very sorely miss when he passed me. He had some young guys cut their teeth on him and he cut his teeth on him. He planted his teeth on there. My favourite thing to do when I had a new stallion person coming to see if they could do the job. They have to go into the paddock and he used to fly at 100 miles an hour, his ears been back and he never had the odd time he couldn't stop but you'd have to stand there ground if he chased you out of the paddock and there was last time he'd been the paddock with him because he had his character like that so he liked to intimidate people. He's sort of an alpha male type scenario. Yeah but he was a good character. I don't want to genome it to something he wasn't but he was a good character. He was fairly typical profile wise and Starway was as well I guess of Kiwi stallions at the time in that he was well bred from Europe possibly a rung below that top class on the track but the shuttle was coming or was here the shuttle revolution. How did your relationship with Coolmore wins a parts relationship with Coolmore come about because obviously they are shuttle pioneers and you guys have a long standing relationship with them. I have to get Peter Vellow was actually Sir Peter Vellow was a catalyst for that really and that was with Taylor the cat so he was in the thought that we really need to get a big horse to come into New Zealand and the way that it worked in it was a bit different and how it works now. So we formed a group of 10 studs, and we've had a couple of different things. Morales had sent 10 ms each or could send 10 ms each. So we put the we put the money up front And we were the study and upstanding him You know, he did a great job here. He was he wasn't the easiest horse again. I mean that's well documented But but he was a beautiful horse grow up grow smooth it, you know, you know, we were lucky enough to To get felcut Why I'm but he was then I so that was the start of it You know, and then our relationship grew from the early days, you know, we used to deal with Christy grass the cover There he's been a huge part of Of their business and we we just then from there on the relationship we just went from Staling to Staling we're just very fortunate that We had spinning wheel the year after him and then We were very very fortunate to be able to stand down on sure I'll never half and you know One of the greatest race horses I believe still, you know, he's and we know to be a fantastic stallion So you know that the race just keep building you know It's almost breeding season and if you're in the market for breeding stock at the upcoming sales or just want experienced Independent support with meetings or stallion bookings from a professional held to account by a strict code of ethics Then you want an FBA agent for a full list of FBA members head to bloodstockagents.com.au Look forward to tomorrow today Let's talk about those first couple spinning world title of the cat because They were good stallions right right? They were good stallions Yeah, but what they did was leave a legacy for you through two of their offspring. So you referenced Falcook will talk about him first to son of Taylor the cat and you're he gave you the opportunity to go back to the old world and Less riding around in rain drivers with rockwilers and and heading to the Nero some more heading to Royal Ascot What was that experience like? Probably one of the highlights of my my career to be fear Actually mum and I went up together because you know Falcook was pretty you know from one of our good families Lavin's family and and mum was very fond of it and she You know she probably run a bit favorit horses feel good and so we went up together and It was just a fantastic time really because you know they looked after us so well and to have gone from working there to be at Royal Ascot watching your horse run It probably doesn't get any better than that to be fair you know unless you're winning a cox plate and then spinning world had a pretty handy son known as thorn park and Thorn park was a very good racehorse. How did the end up at Windsor Park though because he would have been quite in demand wouldn't he? He was I'll never forget it because he was probably probably one of the easiest or stuff Not probably not through the buying and but I'll never forget going to the stable or my grand was with me and we shot up We flew over and went to see him and he stuck his head out the door Out the door and I I don't even get out the box and I jump on the phone to dad and so they you probably might want to come over Bring the cheap book yeah, yeah, so But I'll never forget I didn't even get an able to watch this so me It's probably like the best looking horse to see and the most beautiful there didn't he? They used to call him Arnie That's what he looked like and he was a cool horse. Yeah, he was a really cool horse And then an exceptional Stallion his loss really hurt you didn't Those sort of horses are what keep these farms going, you know like as most New Zealand studs are we're family own businesses We we we don't have the big corporate backing of of of international investment So we we need those sort of horses to keep us getting into the next horse the next horse next horse Yeah, it was it was it was a hard hit to take Also genius. I love the horse, you know, he's such a great character and you know, it was a bit of a drawn out Way went and it was it was pretty hard. Lock up, you know, I know it sounds a bit emotional really But I did look at it and say do I really want to carry on, you know like I was I'd not yeah, I'd sort of this That's too tough, you know, you get a horse like this and lose and you go You know, do we stick with the Stallions or do we just you know have any you know, I was I'll be fairly honest I was at a crossroads to say do I do I get smaller and go to just the broodmirs um, you know and breed just be a breed or you know is the stand-in game for me So, you know Obviously, I said the stand-in games and we've kicked on and you know invested more money But you know it was a crossroads, you know seriously a crossroad for me It was it was a long drawn out Process and knowing what you knew about Lamanidas with your time with Rick Was there I mean was there hope did you have hope during the process and he got it real yeah, it was say what it was he actually got a He got a puncture went into the nomenicular person which Like it's pretty hard to do, you know, like you'd be a dead-eyed dick if you try to do it, you know So it was just the whole thing was bloody unfortunate and it There was hope at quite a few points um But it ended the day we didn't make it and um one thing Rick always taught me was that you know if they want to live you keep trying You know And the day that he decided like he always said Rick always said to me if they want to get up and drink and eat You keep pushing and I pushed him pretty hard and he did that every day in the day didn't we'll put him down And it was a bloody hard day. I'll tell you right now, you know, look at not just for me But figuring all the staff bits everything so we put a lot of effort into it But yeah, yeah it was it was getting Seeing Ocean Park and Jimmy Schoo kicking ass and taking names at Stalions I know they're not yours, but does that give you a little bit of second hand pride? Oh my god, yeah, it's a funny thing, you know like you know you say They're not else, but you know you still follow them is it You're part of something you know, so it sounds the way that it sounds a hardship real sounds of mario whatever um Shit, you know, we are love seeing good still in succeed and whether it's you know We say that competitors, but I don't know hitting New Zealand's a little bit different than rice. We still um And we're all pretty good mates and we need each other to succeed in New Zealand If Tom is not got a good one or I mean he's got his flying at the moment john's going great at Richell and you know mark whatever we Yeah, it's a little evident. I'll carry on can't take we we we need those horses to be to be flying just so We get the Australians on the on the plane to come over so Yeah, I love to see success a rising tide flights all both of course as you reference a certain say you think in done deal We're doing a decent job too and they products of Well, they're both by high-shap, but I feel like mongear and you referenced him before as a part to play too Is I'm assuming he is what led high-shap or al coming to the farm? How do you get a horse like mongear? I know you had the cool more Arrangement but he was yeah, I like like that it was a real cool. I mean To be fair, you know to be get a horse of his class Was brilliant and to fear to cool more to be able to send a horse like that down to us and put into our care as a huge There's a huge thing and You know as I say we've had a very good relationship and great to deal with the what you've basically seen on the operations like they're not being lucky enough to To meet your magnum and in the car and the boys and sustain the elite horses is fantastic Mongear and high-shap or al were a bit different to your thorn parks and even like your termy loses and and your Galileo Is that you've had a bit of success with rip and and that kind of thing in terms of the type of horse the profile They fit. Did you have to do a bit of thinking about how you're going to make these horses and how you're going to treat them compared to how you Done with other stallings the one thing they've all got to comment their high speed That speed I don't know if you've seen the mongear's races, you know They don't get much faster than them with whatever ground he's going over and That they all hit speed so really simple. I mean that is world-class race horse high-time farm ratings Or the best stalling you live in you know or settle as well as when you're in the cradle of a walk the earth so Not hard Yeah, uh cash estimates and I think said about Mongear when you won the king George that it was like landing in a concord He was going that fast So obviously acceleration to the extreme now. I want to do a thought experiment. What does a world with high-shap or al staying in New Zealand look like? It looks like More investment That's what I'll say what those good stallions allow you to do is to invest more you know to buy more stallions to buy more me And that's you know that's the heart me At the moment for us trying to compete in the Australian market where they everything's going up in price You know if we've got a good stallion that's standing for good money we can get him playing that in that market and for me Having those sort of horses is breeding good horses and investing more money Were you in the running to get to have a stock with the Mongear and the Duchess of Bedford connection? Does that sum you out that he ended up at Cambridge? Oh, sometimes you don't get things right I'm not saying we would have got him I particularly didn't I wasn't a great I mean I was a great phantom as a racehorse But I wasn't sure about his type and um you get things wrong and I've probably got that one wrong But I'll tell you one thing I had a little bit to do at the end of his life and He was an amazing patient like big brain Yeah, I saw he'd be really you know as I say in Bredneybone But Jesus super impressive as it as it as it was personally like he just was he was tough and Amazing horse so Yeah, I got that one wrong. Is that something you only find out when the go and get stuck with the horse? The personality that you observed. Is that something you could have noticed beforehand? Yeah, I don't know. I just it's something that you do notice. I mean, you know, you'll find it on the farm You know horse one horse will get an abscess in the foot and they'd die Another one walk around like it's no problem, you know, and so they do have it in a string I mean, it's native of some people, but he was he was like a soldier. He really was. I was lucky enough them I was asked to go around and look at him When Rick reading came down and the camo's guys, you know, we're down there and he's tough Yeah, right One one other final stallion thought experiment before we move on to other stuff carpstead Is he a bit underrated by his trip? He was very substitute all He was the best. He was a rock star looking horse, you know, we paid a lot of money for him And that was you know, we bought him free the crash so that he I think you know, he was the highest price Horse to be that big bought an Australasia at that time, but it anyway was a magnificent looking horse But there's a beautiful line on I think any of those eight carrots has that beautiful eye Don't they? Yeah, he was just handsome and he was a he was a very kind horse, you know, lucky he was a anyone could handle him But he had he he was what I call a lover boy he had um he had L-l-l-l-l-be-down And and low fertility but he produced very fast race horses. So I don't think he ever had over 50 foals Um, so for what he achieved, you know, he was quite an exceptional horse. I mean, I mean, I but there was a period there It was probably when you're in Sydney where he had he had Golden sword, captive edition Sprite by was on the way like this is a serious horse and if he's only doing those small numbers Kevin I'm Kathleen I think you know, is a superstar and then he's Philly's he was great Great. Sorry. I mean he was really bred this looking horse you'd see you mean He'd be a very hard horse to buy today Similar genetic, you know, like in terms of he had the same profile you know He wouldn't be coming to New Zealand English digital is a southern hemisphere's number one place to sell your stock online With more than $200 million gross since its inception English digital online sales continue to provide maximum return to sellers with twice monthly options It is a constant source of success for buyers as well with almost 2500 races one by English digital graduates in Australia this season already Including the recent group one winning two-year-old. She's extreme Check out the May Early Online Catalog at englessdigital.com You're very much a forward looking stud manager rod How satisfying was that group one double at Ellis Lee for for shan express in term eluce for you personally Oh, I mean that was huge you know it was it was fantastic for for shan express having group one winner and you know We've had a little bit of trouble with fertility over the years, but he leaves a very good horse You know to have his group one one of there and tuff a teta bass. She's buddy good little mere and he's doing a really good job Shan and term eluce well when you have a young stand-in like him kicking goals especially in Aussie And then to get a group one winning two-year-old That was his sort of second group winning two-year-old in a in a few weeks without a man a gold winning that matter matter To have luckily split when that was just just awesome, you know She's she's bread and race point and accuse and and um and Dean Hawkins who you know both had worked for me and now Nick works for me. So it was a pretty cool story And the cool more connections not finished yet. You're still bringing out these these highly performed sons of the cool more greats This time a son of Galileo and circus maximus top race or triple group one I'm on a royal askot one a one the stallion making race in the St James Palace, which I think if you ever look is probably The best in racing making race and in Europe and got 160 ms last year So in his first year and you know, he's gone really well this year and I He's got a good strong set of bookings that he have 70 ms already booked this year before the season So they're not syndicated horses, you know that we've got to start it started zero You know, we we sent I think 28 ms ourselves. So you know to get 130 on paying me is Was it was great, but he deserves it because it's very good horse and if they look like him and run like him We'll be half way there anyway. He's a good sword is it? Yeah, he's a beautiful horse. Yeah, yeah really well made. I mean Most the cool more horses that don't you know most of ones they stand there got to have the presence and styles of to stand there so now we're Very happy to have him Let's move away from the Hollywood stuff and talk more a bit about behind the scenes First the farm. It's grown a lot since you were a young and in terms of size What is your strategy for managing the property that Cambridge area? It's pretty rich country, but does it ever get horse sick do you have to sort of be careful of that? I look we you know as a mom a farmer at heart And so in and same with my parents and as so we run a lot of I run a lot of cattle in a lot of sheep So we do a lot of cross grazing um, we've got 1400 acres of of 100% usable land over five farms In different areas so we move the stock a lot we love buying new land Dad's just developed another 200 acres right on the boundary of Cambridge which is just magnificent um, beautiful Beautiful soil so look we try and you know we try and move the horses around so that on one place at a time We try cross grazing as much as we can Obviously your main assets and facility are on the main farm so you've got to be able to use those areas for the breeding side But once the breeding season though we try and move out a lot of stock to do the other properties I don't I mean, I don't know how you do it and I don't want you to give away the secret source or anything like that But you must sort of be move a lot of moving like a big chessboard almost looking at the time I have an operational manager Rachel Murray She sort of runs that that side of it obviously and consultation what happens but It takes it takes a fair bit of maneuvering with her all going um But yes, she runs a pretty good cut. She's uh If she gets it gets it I mean and you know that's you know for a lot of people that say it's You're probably wasting a lot of time and a lot of energy but for us it's that's what's going to be best You know you we're trying to breed and the best athlete we can breed so um You know if they can reach reach did you need a potential boy you doing the best by them That's what we do and whether we're going well or we don't go well. We do the same like you know even if in the years that are tough I we don't stop doing what we do We're like a you know so you know It's just one of those things we have to keep putting back in if we want to get back up again Whether you're going well or you're not going well after care is one of the most important things in the in the stud game these days It just has to be front and center for breeders going forward Your wife jenna has quietly been retraining thoroughbreds as sport horses for a decade pretty proud of For jenna for what she's achieved um and quite a short time really so She was sick and year into the law degree and Was breaking and ponies and selling ponies to pay for her education in She came across an article in a paper about a horse that needed a new home a two-year-old Feltae horse and So she took him on he had a wind operation took him on and then they're becoming one of the news on his top eventers Um, she sold him to quite a bit of money. She said oh this is this is probably better than being a loyal And so I built quite slowly, but you know once our relationship and we got together obviously knowing more people in that She's built her that from doing Ten a year to you know, she's she's turning over about 350 Retired also the year to go into the sport horse world. Are you serious? 350 Yeah, so So it's i'm really proud of it because it's it's a big thing for us and the demand is the earth She's got close to 40,000 followers on Facebook now or something now they're all going through Facebook She's got a contract with the Hong Kong jockey club To rehome probably their idea of those horses a year So they fought they flew out from Hong Kong and they come to the stud And they come in groups and then they'll be here for a couple of months and then they move on to event stars And then yeah, she's she's re-homing with it's show jumping eventing Polo Tracking you know pleasure horses. There's just the demand is it's actually mind blowing for the third bit and really the third bit has been brought up You know, they can go on a plane. They can you know that they've been handled beautifully from young horses. They've been educated well And people can get into an animal like that. Yeah, it's it's it's a pretty awesome thing How long From when she gets a horse to when it's ready to to be offered We'll be talking and is she getting any support centrally from New Zealand racing or something like that because we're playing catch up here in Australia on the whole Yeah, I retry anything I think I think jena's models the best model and I know a lot of jurisdictions are trying to create farms and all this and trying to tie the working thoroughbred These probably you know the most of them are Four or five year old girl things they want to go to work They've got 20 years of their life left So to stick him in a paddock and grace for the next 20 years artists. It's not sustainable. So her system is They come in from trainers and in the trainers are really getting a lot better now. They come in well shot You know looking well. It comes straight from the races jena some of them will be there two days some of them will be there a week some of them will be the 10 days but really what jena's doing is assessing their ability and she has got a very good skill of working out what these horses can do and then do all the photos and tell it exactly what these horses are like um and what's sort of home that'd be suitable for them. And she turns a lot of people down. These aren't, you know, a lot of people don't get to get what they want. And she doesn't think they will be able to have their ability or the right facilities for the horse they don't go. So that in that way, we don't get many returns. - Well, I've only got a couple more questions for you because I know you've got to get some horses ready for a sail. Now I was looking at sail calendars that I have here on my desk. And I didn't see one called Rugby Racing and Bear. Tell me about this. - Oh, it's a little concept of being clean out for a while. That, you know, I said, I should take some horses to the south island, you know, because actually the wealthiest province in New Zealand is southland. So there's plenty of money in the south island as they call them, mainly in take. I've always had different ideas. So we started last year, we took nine horses down there. And we do a lunch and the horses go down, but they don't come for the lunch. We previewed before the sail and then we sell them. We do guest speakers, Rugby, you know, someone to do the racing and obviously it's putting a bear there. And then we do the option Steve Davis kindly comes down and options for us. So yeah, now we're pretty lucky in this year. I think I'll care about us coming over to be a guest speaker and Israel DeG, so I'm sure we could. - Yeah. - Well, you didn't put a lot of thought into the name, though, right? There's a rugby person. It's right, Steve, and we're drinking beer. We'll call it rugby racing and beers. So I think there's a charity element as well. - Yeah, there's young girl down south island. It was paralyzed for years ago. So we give two and a half to see the proceeds. We'll go to here and then we do a fundraiser as well. I think last year maybe we raised 20,000, four of 15, 20,000. So I mean, it's only a small token really to her life, but it's just something we can do. But it's a really good day. I think we sold nine out of nine last year. I did say to the participants at the luncheon, I said, the boys are going around locking the doors and no one's leaving until we sold. So it was a good fund, but the highest price we got, I think, was $75,000 or something. I said, $72,000,000. I said, "Ah, it's a great day out." The south island actually don't have a sale down there anymore. So we found a special afternoon, covered in that last year. It was really well received. - Well, it'd be good to track that. It'll be interesting to see what the graduates do over the next few years as well. That's really cool. All right, let's get into our quick file. Would you rather, say, I'll give you two options and you can tell me you'll pick you up for that. - Yeah, yeah. - No one, couple of the Everest. - And the other one, Cap. - Zabile or Dain Hill? - Ooh, come on. - Just let that. - I'll probably go Zabile. I did love Zabile. - Got a big patriotic. - Beer or wine? - Ooh, ooh. Wine. Rugby, racing or beer? - Racing. - Martin Power or so you think? - Oh, well, they both came off the farm but we breed Martin Power, so I'll go with it. - No, no, no, no. - Top lot or winner's circle? - Definitely winner's circle. - And finally, if you were put in charge of the racing and breeding industry in New Zealand, what would you do on your first day? - What would I do on my first day? - I would implement Greenfields in the Waikato. Joining our three tracks in Cambridge and building a super track. We haven't got the most horses, the National Asia Training and Cambridge at any one track, so it's a big population of horses. So yeah, and I think just for racing, I think it'll be fantastic. - Yeah. Rodney Shiek, you better go and get those ten yearlings ready and probably word up here and easy about how to spot beds. But thank you for coming on to Connectionscast. Good luck with the sale and good luck with the rest of the season. - Cheers. - Well, that's it for this episode of TDN OzNZ's Connectionscast, brought to you by Newgate, raising top class race horses. If this is the first time you've listened to the show, go back and check out our interviews with other Kiwi luminaries, including Lanso Sullivan, Mark Chidick, Sopedevella and Paul Moroni. Subscribe, recommend us to friends and please, throw a five star rating our way. It helps more people find the show. And of course, subscribe to TDN OzNZ's daily edition for the best thoroughbred news and information in the Southern atmosphere. I've been Angus Roland, thanks for listening.