Episode #3 - Yann RIVOALLAN

Many of us grew up with the idea that success went through a pretty social status, more than a square meter, a big salary or a significant amount of business. Well, here we measure the wealth of others. The time we have, the health and the way we take care of it, the freedom to choose your rhythm, your environment, the daily joy and the meaning you give to your life. I am Marina Lemaire and I welcome you in "Pour tout l'or du monde". A podcast supported by Claire et Aycanope, which organizes these days of games and give back to support, focus and put your inner cap back in the right place. In each episode, you will meet famous or unknown people who have changed something. Their rhythm, their look, sometimes their whole life, takes advantage of a unique, more aligned, joyous and richer life. This podcast will never tell you what to do, but it can, I think, give you the desire to question your daily life, the desire to slow down for your return, explore and listen to you deeply. I wish you a good listen. (gentle music) For this episode, I wasn't in the middle of a forest or in a wooden hut, but in the course of a nice apartment in the Trèchique, 7th Parisian arrondissement. In front of me, Yann Révolant, the business man's archetype, Bobo, trade school, box and cardboard, nice network, nice address. In short, on paper, not necessarily the typical profile of the guests of this podcast. And that's precisely why I wanted to meet them. I said to myself that for these poor people at the service of the fight against China and to publish a book giving a method to help people learn more in part 2, there must be something to dig in. You will discover, through this episode, that behind this perfect vernier, this hidden man, a son of a teacher, an artist who only gives half of it, who gets bored at sea, so as to climb on the social scale, and above all, the consequence of his sensitivity to the world and his ability to feel the societal turns. Yann has passed his life to climb, to seduce, to adapt, just at the moment when the software has totally bugged, as he says. I wish you a good listen and a beautiful discovery of this very beautiful person. I felt the potential that I had with you to click directly. I'm so happy that we are discussing today because I think you have found a balance between this world that I reject and yet, this anchorage that I'm looking for, you have a kind of... I don't know how to put it, in your words, is it through your commitment? Is it also because I discovered you through your book? You have a kind of anchorage, Yann, that I don't know how to describe and that's the reason why I'm so happy to talk to you. And I thank you for your words that you allow me to have. Because I think that during the years, I haven't found myself, I've been looking for myself a lot, and that finding your way is something long, and to understand in which line of flow you're going to be in and you're going to be able to move forward. It's also a good job. And here, we have, without a doubt, a mix in this line of flow. I think I'm at ease for now and without a doubt at a certain time. Can we just come back to your business path, the Yann d'Avant, the Yann d'aujourd'hui? In the business, it's our first step, it's a friend on board for a very long time, his name is Patrice Bougère, who is a great reporter in France 2, who offers me to become a photographer on the beach. I tell you, I don't know how to take pictures, he tells me, "It's okay with your face, in fact, it will work. I don't see too much of it." And I understand it pretty well because it's a photography profession, where I had to seduce people on the beach to take pictures of their children. What taught me the three basics of what I have been doing for years now, the first one is artistic dimension, I had to take pictures, and so I discovered really what it was like to take pictures in a professional field, knowing that it was already a passion. The second is to be commercial, because going to take pictures with someone who didn't ask for anything, there is a necessarily commercial talent to transform it all. And the third is entrepreneurial dimension, because very quickly, just after this experience that lasted two months, I went up to my first company. And it's the basis of everything I could do both in the photo and also in fashion and also now in the other lines in which I am. But at the bottom, where did you come from? The guy who came to look for you, where? So I was a student at Bordeaux Sciences Co. Why Sciences Co? Because I was pretty good at math, but I didn't want to do that, I didn't want to do physics and to do eco, it allowed me to do a little bit of both. And on the other hand, at the time, taking an artistic dimension was impossible for me. So I would never have imagined that I could go to an artistic field. But you had that in you? I already had it because I started painting at 7 years old, I really started taking photos when I was 14. So after, in your career, you created a company? So there, I created a photo agency at that time. As I was a teacher, I didn't have any networks, I didn't have anything. And above all, I created a lot of green platforms. That is to say, I wanted an artistic dimension, but I didn't assume to be an artist. So for example there, being... we did a lot of wedding photos, we really took photos in all sincerity, humility, which were very, very, very, very, very beautiful, especially for the time. Or at the time, the wedding photo was something extremely sorry. And at the same time, I had developed a software to manage these photos, which allowed me, with my company, to do up to 300, 350 weddings per year with your entire team. Oh, wow, OK. What is also the basis of my vision, which is artistic, it's great, but if it's only for an Apifiu series, it's not really useful. Whereas, when you do 350 beautiful weddings per year, you allow 350 couples to have memories of their life, of that day, of their family, of their emotions, always and never. And this effort of emotions is also part of things that are very important to me. But wait, but what year are we talking about? We're talking about 1993, I started in 1993 and I sold the company in 2001. When I discovered the real digitalization, and I saw that we were going to pirate all my images, and that the pirating of these images was going to ruin my box. Oh, wow, OK. So you took the front? I proposed to my partners to completely change the business model. They said, "Well, no, it would work very well, why change it?" So we were not okay, and it happens. And from that, I sold them my parts, I took another year of study, I was at ESCP at that time, and I was at ESCP for a very simple vision. It's one, I needed to know how to do technical things to really develop his box, which I didn't have. And the second, it was simply to have the network of ESCP. Because I also saw at what point the ability to create a network was important. In all my marriages, I travel, these community phenomena and networks, almost even castes, we could say that existed, and I knew that I wouldn't be able to do that, and that it would automatically create green platforms. However, by entering a business school like ESCP, or HOC or others, you actually explode these platforms in part because you can talk to anyone who did it in school. And that allows you to have connections, and these connections allow you to open doors that you didn't have before. The puzzle begins to be drawn. So, we leave ESCP there, when we travel. At that time, I go around in the photo. I want to go to another sector and I am extremely amazed, and I answer completely quickly to get married one Saturday evening, and I answer to a small announcement to become the Director of the shop of Dior in Saint-Parth. So really, the thing. I don't know why I think that. And I am invited for the interview. And I am very embarrassed during the group session because we say to ourselves, "But why are you here?" And I am a little bit embarrassed to say that during the years with the photo, I had fun dressing up women and men. Now, in fact, it would be nice with you that I learn to dress them up. It made me laugh. I go through a second interview and it turns out that I am still a complete imposter. But who has the sense of family? And the adventure stops. But I say to myself, "One, the sector of fashion recruits." Obviously, not only on stylistic functions, but also on creativity. I am an entrepreneur. We are in 2002, 2003, and the function of an entrepreneur is not at all valued at this time. As much as now, it is a great entrepreneur and we can enter into beautiful structures at the time, not at all. And so, from that, I realize that there is a small door that is the sector of fashion that interests me a lot, in which I can enter. And rather by the part, for example, of retail and distribution. And there, I'm interested. And I'm starting to enter into a sales formation box. And quite quickly, I'm going up to build a recruitment office in Lille. Okay. And so I'm going to build this recruitment office in Lille. This time, as a salaryman. And for three years, I'm complaining a lot because it's great. I meet a lot of people. I call on my instinct and my emotion to be able to meet people well. And at the same time, there is a real volume, there are a lot of meetings. Finally, it's great. But I see the arrival of LinkedIn and I see the arrival of Facebook. And I say to myself, "Wow, the photo has been distributed by tools like Napster." And there, it's the recruitment and the employment. And there are also people who are going to be distributed by tools like LinkedIn and Facebook. And so from that, in 2006, I said to myself, "In fact, I have to do something else." And I look more closely at the digitization. What I've been doing since then, because I was talking about the software that I developed in 1995-1996. And from that moment on, I tell myself, "What could I do in this sector more particularly in e-commerce?" And one day, I meet the international director of the brand Darrell, who tells me, "We're going to China, we're going to do franchises or affiliation commissions. That is, we're going to open shops. And it will be an independent salesman who will do everything. So we will only give the brand and the product." And he tells me, "After, we want to go to the Internet, we don't know how to do it." And at that moment, I tell myself, "We're going to do franchises, affiliation commissions on the Internet, where we're going to be able to do everything for a brand, except that the brand will only give its name and its product, and it will be experts who will do all the jobs." And from that year, the idea of the ZEOS OSTOR. I concretize this idea within a startup in which I go, which gives me this idea very quickly, and within this startup, I make two friends, and it's the three of us who launch the ZEOS OSTOR, and we develop all the three from 2008. And this is where my real entry into the fashion sector is. Because the recruitment was exciting, but it was only the 7RH phase. And there, with ZEOS OSTOR, I do all the jobs. The creation, the photos, the site, the omnicanals, the marketplace, the logistics, the customer service, and I almost touch almost all the jobs in fashion. So you start with three, three associated? From the box, you stay in for how long? I stayed until about 2021-22. So 11, 12 years? Well, we launched it in 2007-2010. So you're almost 15 years old, almost 15 years old. And what makes you say I'm going, while you're the founder? For several reasons. The first is that we went up to three, and one of the three companies was part of it a few years ago. And I find that there was above all a super machine at three, and that at two, we unfortunately had it less, both of them. And then I see how the sector changes, and COVID at a time obviously horrible, but for IOSSTOR, sadly extraordinary in terms of business, because as e-commerce becomes the sole distribution channel, we make an insane increase. Or I discover, at the same time, all that we can do with the blockchain, I see all that we can really do with the influencers, I understand that there is a new software that is being created, and I also discover China. And I tell myself there is really something to do than what we do at IOSSTOR. And so I say to myself, well, in fact, I have to get out to find something else, and to reinvent something else. And my idea at the time was to say to myself, there is no brand of Benlieu really, apart from Lacoste, etc., but who are not in the wishes of Benlieu brand. However, there are real communities in Benlieu, and I think we can create influencers brands for Benlieu. And I contact dozens of influencers who are known in their Benlieu, who have communities of about 100,000, 200,000 people. And I tell myself, I'm going to make small brands for them where they will make 100,000, 200,000 euros worth of stuff. But if I have 300, at the end, it's a box that makes 300,000 euros, it's a pretty booklet. However, I sign up with 5 and after a few sales, they tell me, but we can't sell it because there is China that sells products at 3 euros. So I can't sell a t-shirt at 15 euros, it's not possible. And there, I get out of my Bobo function to go just on their field and understand that young people at the time, people who connected and people who also financially have a real connection with a financial reality that is no longer mine at the moment, actually show me the danger of China. And as I was elected to the head of the Federal Federation in 2022 to succeed an extraordinary man named Pierre-François Lelouette, who was the former president and who has been friends for 20 years with the SCP, well, all my program is based on "you have to destroy China" because otherwise, China will destroy us and by understanding China, we understand both how to do it, the opposite of China, that is, sustainable brands, and at the same time how to innovate because China is the most innovative company in the world, I think, in terms of technology, artificial intelligence, generative, and to do that, well, in fact, you have to understand how they do it to be able to catch it, but by doing it this time, in fact, very pretty brands. Incredible, so wait, I just want to slow down because it's already on your journey, what is quite extraordinary is that every time you jump from one domain to another, it looks very fluid and very linear, but you have a capacity, you are a huge visionary, in fact, every time you feel that something is happening. In fact, it's, in fact, where they are not because a huge visionary, well, he can create Mistral, he can create Facebook, etc. But in any case, you have the sense, you feel the thing, arrive and the danger, and you ... That's why I, in fact, systematically mix career, the artistic part of the industrial part. I mean, an artist as such, I think it's someone who is emotionally and extremely connected to the world, and who feels the trends in fashion, who feel the trends in music, who feel it, and who takes it inside, all the time, all the time, all the time. And then, through his lectures, through his meetings, and so on, it comes out on the other side. And, well, I think I have this chance, that is to feel the transformations, and to know the agglomeration in my brain, and then give it a direction. And then sometimes it works, and sometimes it works well, for example, in this box that I wanted to launch, there was a real point, the development of influencers, the need to reconnect the suburbs to a more important socialization in our economy. Finally, there are a lot of things, but I didn't manage to go all the way to the end, of course, of this adventure. On the other hand, I saw another danger that was that of China, and then, on the contrary, I said to myself, "This adventure, I'm going to try, on the other hand, to bring it to good." So that's why I think I have this ability to feel things, to feel the evolutions, to have a certain form of leadership to train others. But I never created, on the other hand, an important society to consider myself as a visionary of this type, of course, this type of jobs, of Canberra and others, which for me are also these visionaries, which we are not only seeing the feeling, but in addition to creating the entity that changes everything. You have your sensitivity that has driven you to the point where you are in business. You also had a desire to succeed socially, and a little bit of a revenge, which I don't know if it's important. It's clearly the spirit of revenge, in fact, it is to want to change brackets. I think I got bored deeply when I lived in Rocheforte, on Merch, with my parents, a little very cute city of 20,000 inhabitants, but I was very alone and I got bored a lot. And I think I also really liked the discussion between adults and teachers, but there is a side of victimization, which is we are victims of national education, we are victims of a system, and in fact, that's what I'm not interested in. That is to say, I think we can change the system. So to stay at Rocheforte-sur-Mer and to remain a victim of a system was, in itself, totally impossible. And I was looking for, throughout my whole life, to climb to the peak. By trying to stay, it was there, the great complexity of all the years. Do you have the impression that you have been lost in terms of what you could have won in this race and in this world in which you had put a foot? Many times, because there is a fairly simple syndrome, which is the need for seduction to go to a social class that is not yours, and to adapt to this social class. And so, from this fact, when you go to a more aristocratic world and you learn how to talk, you learn how to eat, well, are you and you, because you put the shoes on the table, or on the contrary, you take these habits, in fact, to be like them, and you have to be like them to be taken into this community, but at the same time, you are no longer yourself. And the whole subject of understanding what are the compromises that can be made or the compromises that destroy us. And I think that for a very long time, I have been in a need for seduction and elevation, in fact, I committed myself because to want to seduce, I actually forgot what I was. But at the time, the software stops and it stops, I think it is the case for many of us at 40 years old, because the crisis of the quarantine is coming, and you know that you have other perspectives in life. In fact, you just know that there is an end that will come. And from this end, you have an internal software that prevents you from going through things that could have existed before. And from that point on, I felt that it was no longer possible. Specifically, is there an event that happened where you felt that there was perhaps a need to recalibrate things? Was it the end of the adventure with your box? It is rather a personal adventure, that is to say, I divorced and I really saw that the relationship with my wife was that of someone with a thousand qualities, with whom I had a very beautiful child, a little boy who is beautiful who is 11 years old. But the intellectual links that we could have or other, in fact, created something for me that was no longer me, and that I had accepted to not be with her for years. At the same time, it helped me because it allowed me to work like a madman, for The other store, and not only to work was not me, to be in a group where there were many things that did not correspond to me was not me. Oh yes, yes, that's it, that's the trigger, that's nice. It's that at the moment, I tell you, I think we have to separate and I have to leave you. And I have horrible migraines that come. And so it's the body that tells me, in fact, it's over. The game is over. How do you know that it's a message that could just be migraines? Well, in fact, there are migraines and migraines, and there, they are migraines that are so deceptive that anyway, I have to get rid of them to do it. So, get rid of them, be it something that I find curious, and so I'm going to see Amsi at the same time to manage my divorce, because I absolutely wanted to leave like that. On the contrary, I wanted to understand why the command. First time you saw Amsi? Yes, in fact, no, not at all. There were some attempts, but in fact, they were rather failed. And I think that I was either not ready, or the people were not adequate. And on the contrary, it's a brilliant card. And besides, in fact, it's the old boss of the village. Oh, OK. In a relationship with the rugby team. And this time, with him, in fact, I agree to have a real job. At the same time, for this couple who unfortunately disappeared, but it's life. And above all on me, understanding that the problem is not absolutely not my future ex-wife, but that the problem is me and my way of life for years. And as soon as Amsi works with him, I see how, at the end of the day, I can pass on medication. So how did I physically hurt myself? Because I refused to solve the problems. Okay. And so what changed from there? So, from there, what changes is the acceptance of many things. Acceptance, for example, so I'm going to get it out in Prague, but not by the way. Wait, go ahead. The acceptance of being lonely. So it's very surprising because I'm a social animal and even political, so I'm always surrounded. But in fact, I'm super happy alone. However, there is necessarily an ambiguity between the two and this time I completely assume it. The second is also the relationship with money. That is to say, I wanted to change my social status. It obviously also leads to a relationship, in fact, both to the money I earn and the money I can spend and to accept to spend without any worries. And so, second, to make me happy, in fact, in everything I can live on a daily basis. The other point that has been major is the ability to connect to my emotions, that is to say, to never keep my emotions. That, you know, it's when I tell you, right away, it goes up. That is to say, I see how, at times, in fact, you, I feel the thing, there I talk about emotions. So I talk to you at every moment, including in speeches. I've been doing it for days. I'm very happy, I feel the tears that come to my eyes. So there, automatically, when I talk to you, I remember. And so I have tears that come to my eyes. However, for years, I think I've had very bad experiences with things. So I put an army on top of all that. Now, in fact, I feel that it goes up. You see, in fact, it arrives, tears come out and automatically, in fact, the level goes up. That too, I took a lot of time to accept it. And now it's going very well. To also accept that all my weaknesses are at the end of the day. That too, I also went through this phase. And no doubt, also, to accept to go to the fight in this sense, where you can't please everyone. And so from that moment on, in fact, it's going to be very hard to go through with some people. And in fact, it's life. That's OK. You say no to others, you say yes to yourself. And what comes back in the book, which I like to write a few months ago, where one of the first works has been to know how to say no. Precisely, I wanted to talk to you about it because I feel like it's very common of all the people I'm talking to today. There is always this moment where there has been the name that has happened. Or until then, it has always been the career. We go up in airplane mode, cruise speed, everything, it goes well, it goes well. And then there is a moment when we take consciousness and there is this decline. So for you, you have talked about it. When you will talk about it, I have this notion of the second mountain that comes to me all the time. But it always starts with this ability to see things and to start refusing. OK, there is a point in my life that I don't want to see anymore. And thank you for explaining the rupture in detail. And I want to talk about your book because sometimes I had the impression of reading to myself. And in addition, it is super... Yes, you have the impression of talking to a friend. It will only be the first sentence if you have the flame to read, I will get drunk. This book, you are talking about getting out of this hamster wheel. In which you have just been blocked, obviously. We always talk about ourselves when we write a book. You talked about gamification earlier. You talk about gaining points in your book by giving keys to optimize your life. And among the keys to optimization, there is "listen to podcasts" and "say no". And it happens very, very, very early in the book, by the way. Can we come back to the genesis of the book? Is it a desire to transmit or is it a purgatory desire to say to yourself, "I'm going to put it on paper like that, it will be for me a memo of..." In fact, there are several origins. There is an origin that is, in itself, a huge mess, which, due to its responsibilities, is forced to be organized. So, the result is 20, 30 years of methods, etc., to test, to keep the charge, to have the desire to do everything I want to do. There is a second point which is a view that society is self-destructing, because, between the time lost on Neustresco, social networks and a certain number of tools, and the connective loss that we also have with a lot of digital tools, the bad use that we can have in Neustresco and other workplaces, I hear for a long time, absurdities about how to work, knowing that at my modest level, I have been able to see in my start-ups or in the boxes we have accompanied, that there are quite simple ways to gain time and to gain a lot of serenity. And this book, in 52 steps, quite simple, because I also wanted to have a function where we had chapters that we could read the night before going to bed. Because, in other times, we can be a big reader and make very complicated books, it's great, but if we also want to make a change, it's so that everyone can say it. And so, I wanted to have this simplification, so that anyone, no manager, no structure, no age, can easily take the tool and be able to apply it to themselves. We just finished this part one, by flying over Yann's book, but for a little more information, his book is called "Get out of the hamster wheel" and you can order it online. What we almost didn't talk about, on the other hand, in this first part, is that Yann leads a very concrete and highly-educated fight. He has become a major media figure in the debate around law aimed at reducing the environmental impact of textile industry. He continues the TV shows, he continues the muscle speech, the passages to the European Parliament with an ultra-clear goal, to attack the "ultra-express mode" model, included in the Chinese-Chinese script that many of us don't have in our hearts. This role takes on an exposed role, a job for which he is recognized, and to open the second part, on his second mountain, a life more of a fight than money, I asked him a very simple, a little brutal question, but essential to understand well. Would you do it if you weren't paid? Yes, because I'm not paid. Oh wow, incredible! Ok, let's go, let's develop! You see, it's very simple. A better answer, a better answer! Yes, yes, yes. In fact, it comes back at the beginning, which is, do I need more money? So, I'm lucky to have a company that works and pays me, it's not thousands of dollars, but it pays me. On the other hand, I've done companies that don't pay me, but I can help in the company as I couldn't do it if I came with a company. So, on the one hand, I have a company, and on the other hand, I go on vacation and I feed myself, and I can pay for my children's studies. You managed today to tell yourself, "Ok, I could earn more, I'm at this point, for my life, I need X." There is something quite strong in all this, which is that I have the chance to have savings, and I authorize myself to cram everything to my death, that is to say, to not transmit anything to my children. And that's it. And it comes back to this point, which is, anyway, as I give them a lot now, I think, well, I hope to die before 30, 40, 50 years old, so they are somehow old at the moment. If I didn't give them to my little children, it would be the money that they wouldn't understand, and the reason for why, in fact, it would just be a ticket for the car, and it wouldn't necessarily help them. And finally, I believe that in France, the complexity of understanding that the heritage is a plethora rather than a help, prevents the transformation of our sector, and the will to not impose on our heritage as it is the classic feeling, unfortunately, destroys most of the dynamism in our society, and so I self-apply, saying to myself, "If I am imposed, then better." And meanwhile, if I spend all that I have earned, then I put it too, and then that's it. Now, I have largely enough, in fact, for, in any case, that it goes well. And in addition, and this is especially my strength, is that I can really live with not much. I must have a house at the bottom of the mountain, or the Normandy, and in fact, it will go very, very well. I know that it will go very well, so starting from this principle, I don't need it. All my friends who have succeeded in the sense simply economic of the term, tell me that as soon as you have money, you realize how much, finally, you do not need it. When you know that you can offer everything and that you will not miss anything, you will not miss anything, you realize that, in fact, you do not need more, you do not need, you do not need to consume, but I think you still have to have a moment of access to that to realize that it's not so obvious, well, it's a bit difficult, it's not... At the time when I was young, and at the age of 15, I had no more tuna, I mean, yeah. And it taught me both simplicity, at the same time, it gave me hunger. And now, now, I have hunger, but rather change in society, rather than the end of things, which I clearly do not need at all. What are the things today that cost you the most and that are necessary to your well-being, if you have them? That cost you the most. Or the most expensive, it can be, it can be a wallet, the most expensive, I don't know anything, but do you still feel that there are things left, such as your little electrostimulation sequences? I think... It's a luxury that you wouldn't have in the mountains, I mean. No, but in the luxury market, and that's a real dilemma, which is, for example, I go to Mexico for my holidays with my children, and between the consumption of CO2 with the flight, there is still something of simplicity where I can go on vacation, as I did with my parents in camping, and in fact, no. In fact, I keep this surplus of the other side, and either with an energy expense that I find is not positive, and I know that I'm far from being perfect, and that allows me to have no judgment on the behavior of people, because in fact, everyone does as they can, and it tells me rather that it is the law that must impose things, in fact, the morality, which is, in fact, a very variable geometry. If I ask you today, if you're rich, what does it mean to you? In fact, I'm one, because I think that the first thing I wanted was to be a father, to transmit, and to have the pleasure, in fact, well, I don't know what pleasure, but in any case, it's my favorite role of all. The second is that I have been able to create very beautiful boxes, to make them develop, and so I have experienced professional experiences that I would never have imagined. Now I know that I believe that I can help society, so that's also great. After, I believe in having taken many, many things, and knowing how to transcribe them also differently. So it's also a rich intellectual culture that I am actually using. So of all that, yes, I think both in the loving lives that I could have, both in the life of my father, in the professional life and in the life of my friend, yes, I'm really rich. If we talk about the topo, this book that I quote every time, which is the book by Robin Charma, who talks about wealth, he says that we have eight wealths, we generally focus on financial wealth, that's the most valued in the city, social wealth, financial wealth. He talks about wealth from the inside, that you seem to have found, the clarity of mind that you seem to have worked on for 30 years and your book and the... the finality, I would say. Your physical energy, how did we talk about it? The freedom of time. We are on a Friday afternoon, in the middle of your garden, a garden shared in which you live. I think you can organize yourself as you want. That's the basis. All my days are very full. I refuse, I think, half of what we propose, and so I choose everything I do. And in the joys and in the stupidities, I just choose. Honored. You enjoy your time as you want. You organize your days as you want. Deep relationships that we talked about, whether it's in your loving life with your children, with your exes too, do you have good relationships? Yes, in fact, it's funny, because, well, funny, the words were not necessarily very adequate, but I have two exes, with two very different stories, which are themselves very different. And I think we managed, with both, to really stay true parents. For our children, we are true parents, and I think our children are happy parents they have been able to have. So, there are times when we were not agreed, but in a group, we are still okay, no. So we have a diverse group, whether we agree or not. And it's not very serious. He also talks about personal growth. You are in constant evolution, you would say. Curiousness, permanent. You are still on the networks to check. You are doing ... You are still someone very open. So I think we ... you are still followed by yourself, and you are still looking for ... you do not feel like you have reached a barrier, and that you are old. I think the only barrier I can have, it is rather a barrier to physics. I think that, at the moment, if physics does not exist, after all the rest of the years, that's the real issue. Because I find that there are people, who are still very old, who are still out of their minds, in terms of the opening of mind. And quite often, you realize that they are still very dynamic in their daily lives, in their meetings. So in that sense, I am lucky to have, now, to be more me, to have only real friends, to have eliminated, I think, 99% of the toxic people around me. Yes. And in the work of having enough money, in fact, to be able to choose. I think that ... for my children. So it's really, sincerely, it's all simple. So I know that I can continue to progress, without others actually pulling me to places where I do not want to go. I think it's a very important point, that you just ... you just ... you just talked about the environment. We talked about knowing how to say it at the beginning of the conversation. You managed to have the toxicity of the people who could surround you. Well, it's ... and by the way, I was attracted by the toxicity of the people around me. It was the first person to be responsible. I was responsible for this system. I mean, I have a lot of toxic people around me, but it was me who chose them. It was me who went, for my own reasons, my way of being, but I went. And now that I'm like that, I identify them. You're a radar. It's very funny. I mean, sometimes I could go to smile, I know. Fuck, I'm the same. It's really, some people smile, I mean, okay. And then I made them talk. And I take them on the way to know a little. And when I have the confirmation, I'm super polite. And I know I'll never see them again. Then maybe we are the toxic of some too. But the thing that makes me bored, is that I was, me too. Being seductive, I was also necessarily a manipulator. And so when I was in the manipulation, I was necessarily toxic. So I apologize for all those who would listen to this podcast and for whom I should have been like that with them. But in any case, now it's over. That's it, I'm sorry. I love you. And there is the impact. I'm coming back on the eight riches, the last two, there is the impact. What do you do today for free? Your commitment against the fashion phase, etc. To be honest, it is free financially. But do I take it as for all those who are doing an extra year of study, for example, what I was able to do at the ESCP. When I was studying at the ESCP, I had even a little bit of money. But at that time, it gave me, on the other hand, a rich, cultural, intellectual and network. It allowed me to do wonderful things afterwards. I am convinced that everything I do now, in any case, will help me a lot. Will it be financed by others? Well, in fact, I'm sure of it. But it will bring me so many things anyway. So it's not very serious that I don't make money with it. To be honest, it's not very important. My ex used to say all the time that money is a consequence of a project that works. And it's rarely the main source. I mean, the fact of taking the word on LinkedIn or on the networks and that we are access to your feathers, that we are access to your words like that, it gives potentially access to you to make conferences, they will remunerate you. It's always the case. It's a gateway. For all those who listen to the podcast, who want to pay to make conferences, I'm okay to do it. Cool, the message has passed. I, the first person responsible, I devoted 100% of my time to make conferences to act for a project of law or other. And so, in fact, I didn't take the time to do it on the other side. However, once I've learned everything I'm doing at the moment, can I transmit it to others? Yes. Here, for example, I know that I would like to accompany a lot more professionals to allow them, because they have business companies, to make their business companies explode in the good sense, in the social networks. And the way of doing it, I like it now. So, I'm going to accompany them to be able to do it. Precious, and we don't want more business companies. And the last flight, spirituality, we talked about it. Connection to the sacred, gratitude, you do it. In any case, do you continue to make newspaper or do you remerse it? So, my connection to the sacred is not in a religion. It is rather in this vision that I would have found totally absurd. There are really stars and we are on a path. So that, that's okay. And then, in a powerful in a religion, I don't have except that if I take back all the commandments of others, do I try to follow them continuously? Yes. And I say I try, that is to say, I'm sure that many times I don't do it. And so I find that I see some friends who, in religions, have a real wisdom and wisdom, and hence the interest of religions sometimes, because it can give from the first ages, in fact, a certain amount of rules that I find interesting. I find that spirituality and the ability to detach from the financier allow you to see more easily the stars. So there too, it's interesting. After that too, everyone does as he can. I have a lot of trouble for those who are in their religion and who are as quickly as a dictatorship. After the beauty of the world, they are shut down to prevent from taking advantage of this spirituality that can exist around you. What is a bad living thing for you? The bad living thing can be a good living thing, that is to say, I take the relationship with alcohol. Alcohol is very interesting in our society. That is to say, we see how alcohol is glorified by everyone. It's great alcohol. We see how there are people who are experts in Telvin, Telvin, Telvin, Telvin, Telvin, or anyone who is an expert in Tel-Tomata, Tel-Tomata, Tel-Tomata. But I'm sure there are tomatoes from Maboul, from places, I'm sure. Of course. And I think we have separated through alcohol because there is such addiction precisely to alcohol, to alcoholism and that it actually allows people who are alcoholic to be able to live very easily from behind. This terrible addiction in alcoholism. Because it becomes noble in our society to know how to drink. And so, from this fact, I think that drinking is one of the worst poisons that can exist in our society currently. After, do I drink during 20 years of age? Yes. Do I like it? Yes, too. But I find that in the good living of those who drink a lot every day, there is something of infinite sadness. In food, it is the same thing. That is to say, I really love to cook, I love to eat, I love to cook, etc. There is a real territory of artistic dimension. And there, too, the excess is terrible. So I try to tell myself, in fact, the bad living are those who decided to enter the excess in everything, precisely its pleasure in life and not, in fact, in the capacity to benefit well, to take advantage of things, in fact, completely forget. Fun, OK. The real last question, Yann, what would you leave for everyone? Well, my children, I take you a very simple thing. My son goes to school, there is a quarter of a bike around here. Except for exception, we have been here for six months, I think there is one time where he was in a taxi. That's all. And I think it's four or five times where a nun, a nun, was looking for the exit of the school. So you see, for example, this point, in fact, well, I don't let it go. And what I miss terribly is that I see how I don't have the sass when I go home with my darling, and we don't have any other time to talk about real sharing. Connection. And that we find each other. So, love? Yes, of course. And all the emotions that come with it, because I am with a great being of emotions. Thank you for coming out, thank you for this time you gave me. Thank you, Yann. Thank you very much for letting me express myself. You came to listen for all around the world and thank you for sharing this moment with us. This podcast is a story of meetings around real and sincere exchange that slowly liberates artificial ambitions. So if the episode has arisen at home, especially do not stay in your corner and join us on our social media, LinkedIn or Instagram to continue the conversation. We look forward to writing the following with you. In the meantime, I say to you very quickly for a new episode.