Episode 3 with Andy, Glyn and Sam

(upbeat music) Welcome back to the ASN Dad Chat, we're a podcast and community dedicated to making sure no ASN Dad in Scotland has to walk this path alone. Our goal is simple, real talk, real honesty, and sharing our own experiences to help you navigate the system. Whether you're in our meetup group already, or just finding us now, you've got a seat at the table. And just a reminder, we aren't experts, we're just kids, and this is just experiences and opinions, not medical advice, not legal advice. Then let's go on with the chat today. Hello, and welcome back to ASN Dad Chat. Andy, I'm joined again by Sam. Hello, nice to see you. And for the first time we have Glenn. Hello. Welcome back everyone. So we can pass the bat into Glenn, you've heard me and Sam enough for the past two weeks. So Glenn, you want to give a bit of an introduction about yourself Glenn? Yeah, cool. So I am the resident English person of the group. Sorry to say that. I've lived here long enough now, so I think I get a pass. I have two children, one, seven, going on eight this year. He is Elijah with autism and chasing an ADHD diagnosis as well. And our youngest Noah, who is a year old just now. Fantastic. As you guys see, I know we've talked before about stories, about Elijah. You know what, I certainly haven't had the opportunity yet to certainly meet him, but I'm very excited for that day and hopefully you've got some points. Have a, yeah, we went to, I was not going to do it. I've got an aunt. I've got an aunt. Have you ever seen his eye play? Oh yeah, I don't think I have that eyes left my oldest sprint around, you know, he's, Elijah's, Elijah is a wild tone I don't know if Ginger and Ginger. Yeah. Just think of a Ginger cat and that is essentially Elijah. Now we, a lot of, I like just diagnosis is similar to how Andy's spoken about his, Ashton. He's, we call it preverbal obviously because he has got speech and a lot of it is, it's repetitive. Obviously he takes it from what he's learnt from programs and why he's learnt from like videos and stuff like that. But he's getting better at starting a conversation with us. Not so much as being able to be like, how you doing today? Yeah. He will, if he wants to think he'll know, start to come to us and be able to have a conversation with him. So I, I, say to say that's come from things like the nursery that we, we finished in and the school that he's going to obviously has definitely helped it along the way. Excellent. He got his diagnosis during Covid so he was about to, I was early science for him. We, he was premature anyway. Right. I think we was, I think he was 28 weeks. Okay. Wow. I think we can't remember exactly. So we spent, he spent two weeks in the NICU. But we knew he was going to be a force to be reckoned with because after a week he pulled out his, his nose bits. Oh, he knew he was doing that. And tradition himself to the vital. Literally. Of the best memory we had of that, of that place was the nurses kept coming around going, has he got his ginger hair for a year? Yeah. Like, he was bold as they goes when he was born, but they were like, because I'm ginger. My wife's ginger. So we were obviously expecting it. I think if we didn't, there'd be a case of, what's going on there? You know, I think I remember when my youngest was born, he was, I came into my, my eldest and my stepdaughter's lives later on. So my youngest was, he was my first. And I remember when he was born, he was a C section. And I remember, you know, it was very much, we got sat down outside of the, outside of the room. And they took my partner in and the doctor came out and sat. But he very much just stood next to me and went, so you're dad. And I was like, mm-hmm. Tremble of it. Absolutely. But you're like, yeah, oh, absolutely. And it was one of those that he turned around and he went, so have you got a name? And I was like, yes. And I said the name of a very youngest. And he was like, so he's going to be here in two minutes. And then the rest of the time, we're going to be putting your partner back together. I love that. And I think I just kind of, I was sitting there going, OK, two minutes. And then I have a child. Go time. J.B. Elijah was very similar. Like it was such a weird week for us, because J.D. had just passed a driving test the day before. And then I had a joke with my boss at the time. He was like, he was going on holiday. I said, I guarantee you, my son's going to come one year and holiday. He goes, it's too early. It's not going to happen. And then I remember it. I was on the Friday afternoon. I got a message for him. He's go time. OK, cool. And we were in the hospital for about 45 minutes. Like, hopefully, like, four or five minutes, obviously. He was in for longer than that. But it was a long afternoon afterwards. Obviously, because they were like, OK, we need to take away and we need to do this, that, never. Yeah, because I remember with Cheryl, this room, I remember, it was terrible. She was in just, but it took quite a while for in tabernised, remember? Can it end of the night? The usual dad thing getting to go home. I'll go for a full night sleep sort of thing. Left or not. But then it was kind of first thing in the morning, phone call and panic. You need to come in now. Straight back in then it was a completely different story from what I had left. And then it was not too long after. Ashton was here and you're at that point, you're just obviously kind of thrust into it you're now on dad mode and trying to figure out what's going on. But changing. But yeah, it's just a whirlwind. I can't really remember. I'm mass. Oh, yeah. I mean, if there was a qualification for it, I think all three of us would-- That's five. No. [LAUGHTER] No. No, it was a couple more days, similar to his off day. Like, he's trying to be a juice for it. It was a saturday night. He was like, two in the morning when he finally came. I went home. And I remember vividly. Like, I got like an hour sleep in a minute and I lied to him a little bit for the morning. And we gone to Bounties and I was like, half asleep. [LAUGHTER] At least at Bounties you can switch off. You can look at the warning. I lay on the sofa while he just went on the trampoline. Like, that was me. Yeah. That's the main benefit of that. Come for your coaching, just chill. Oh, honestly, I don't know what it is. But when it's especially when you're at a dad, every item of a lounge, you can just pass out on. Like, I can be one of the most uncomfortable chairs in the world. You can rest yourself. And then-- Yeah, we have a concrete floor just now in the living room still, because the floor is not put down. So it's still not done. So I suppose I get down the Friday. And then it's great hadn't dried enough yet. So there'll be another week. So I'm hoping that it should be done by the next time we'll record. By episode 10. Episode 10, the floating complete edition. But yeah, it was pretty good to get everything sorted, because he's not been able to get into any of these toys at end, so everything's just up in there. And as you know, the whole routine and given their own kind of independence is massive. So it's all up in the air just now. But he's got well with it, to be fair. It's probably more just does having low-counter anything until we have a blow-up bed in the living room now that we're kind of half-using as a counter we can. But yeah, it's a bit mad and I'm looking forward to actually having a floor and a living room back again. Oh god, yeah. I mean, in our household at the moment, one of us has to sleep on the couch in a living room to keep an eye on our oldest, our oldest-- we've certainly talked before on this podcast about his antics. Honestly, he's unbelievable at what he can do. It's a bit of a nightmare because you know, he'll jump his gate, he'll go into the kitchen, he will raid everything. The massive, impressive nightmare. Oh, 100%. You know, and it's one of those that one of us has to kind of stay up in the enough all night and then we kind of look it all around. But it can be very difficult, especially when you're thriving on so little sleep. Yeah, you know. Does he sleep? Like once he asleep, is he quite good with that? Or are you still-- Obviously, mellato and Neenie need to kind of really limit it because they kind of build up. We occasionally give him mellato and he's got fast release and slow release. He used to be on fast release. But what was happening was he was going to sleep and then he was waiting up three hours later, ready for the night and ready for the day. And it was two o'clock in the morning. But now he's got that slow release and that does kind of tell you them over until the morning, which does help. But there's some nights where he wakes up and it's one o'clock in the morning and he's just going to be up all day and you just kind of have to deal with it. I know the feeling. You know, as it is, you take the good with the bad when it comes to our kids. Those are good nights. You're trying to-- Even though I know Ashwin still doesn't understand, I'm still doing it trying to convince him. I know it's time to go to sleep. And he's just up there chatting away, repeating his usual YouTube stuff and I'm trying to look, "No, no, no, please." And then eventually after a couple of hours, just like, "Right, downstairs, that's that vein." It's time to know as well because the days getting a bit in lighter earlier. So they think it's time to be awake. I know when we first started with Elijah, he had the pills for the medicine. And they didn't worry very much. We petitioned and we fought together. get the the liquid and they were like okay you need to do half first and if you wake up you can do the rest yeah but that second like half wasn't touching because he was I don't know if it is like because he was already in a system so it was kind of like the tolerance was there so I'm not gonna touch it or obviously the main point of melatonin is that they need to already be tired yeah yeah and so if they're not already tired this isn't going to have the effect that they they expect it to or they want it to or we want it to so it's quite it's quite hard as well to to actually even know when you're your child is tired sometimes you know I know our oldest he times where you think or you seem absolutely shattered and then next thing you know he's sprinting up and down the hall and I'm like maybe not well that's the worst thing see when you're so tired and you're you think that about to go to sleep and then it's just last night they pop up and it's just hello hello hello what's up thank you again well honestly if I could if I could then was I set all the time if I could store his energy and sell it or it would be I would be a you know honestly I don't think yeah it's incredible he puts the drill to sell one it is shame and that was like the other night ashden was being super super super cuddly bringing about 15 blankets up to his bed and colored into me and I need to go get the metal toad and sort of thing and he's like no no no like they just wonder if he's staying bed with him sort of thing and he's been on metal to run off our belt on there and I was like oh he's he's going down all right and I was like oh maybe I'll be okay I'll just leave it tonight and I'll I'll see you go down sort of thing and then he's up right okay after about 40 minutes he's asleep then go to bed it's a bit midnight and then ashden just pops up oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh I'm thinking I'm like never again it has to go back in that um but yeah it's it's one of these things that balance but sleep just massive see just um I think we touched on it before so you when you cannot have any sleep the fact that you need to be so switched on it it's just so difficult sort of thing um I think that's where again we said previously about having that kind of balance between the parents that if one of you are totally kind of shot that the other one has a bit of energy and the worst thing is when you're both knackered that it is just a nightmare and I think obviously probably you two more than me that you've got multiple children so it must be that extra one I think our oldest certainly he has he has the more complex as an additional support needs in our in our household our our step our daughter she she can be okay so long as you can do the right routine at night she's got a very certain routine okay um that you follow to a tea you know she's very literal so she can really struggle if you don't follow it to a tea you know and then our youngest and all honesty you know is the third child they think he's the first he runs about riot in the living room with with usually me and I normally stay up and do the night shift but mainly because I know we've talked about Andy that I don't sleep until the kids are asleep it's just something that I can't seem to do unless I'm completely exhausted and pass out and then I wake up and then my oldest is ransacked the kitchen or yeah it can always be that way in a psychologically in your head you kind of like I know that from me and this is in switching back to even when I was a baby like I wouldn't want to go to sleep unless he was fast asleep so I think I was my head I'm like I don't want to go into a deep sleep to get woke up kind of 20 minutes later and I remember that was one of the things that when I actually was a baby that me and Cheryl ended up splitting it to be like instead of both of his goodness sleep as I'll take the first half of the night you take the second I drive I have like a smaller peak like a four-hour straight as I post to like seven hours of completely broken sleep but to be fair I got through some of my box sets during that point so I think he would just be lying there up every once in a while for milk and then I'd be kind of cracking through every box set I could find but it definitely did get get harder than the baby staying in jademy oh yeah I think everybody so many people think the baby stage is the hardest and honestly I sit I sit there and I'm like no no it's pretty much now that for a lot of us here you start at the baby stage with a much much larger child now yeah I'm quite thankful that we've got a very detailed routine with a larger when it comes to bed and I think that's just been because we've put so much practicing to it now obviously similar to what you said obviously we one of one of your kids is this is you back from school have a snack have dinner bed bathroom bed obviously it's it's done like very like military by the hour sometimes we go past obviously like the bedtime but you can tell that he starts to get cranky from it so like seven o'clock half seven we're in bed he's got his mother's turn we always ask him before he goes to bed like who's taking the bed tonight mom and daddy we give him the decision obviously he'll pick one of us that's good though yeah your he was Elijah has that autonomy to pick you know what I know are are daughter she machine picks so we do it's called the magic we do the magic and it's something that my partner absolutely adores grazing army and it was on grazing army and it was three times and it's like what's it bad dreams bad dreams go away good dreams good dreams come to stay so we do that three times and it has to be three if you don't if like there was one time I think I'd done it like twice and she was like no she was like no no no get get with the program you know and but yeah and you know we do that and we've had to take her tablet off of her earlier because you know her her transitions were actually getting a lot slower and she was getting really distracted didn't you could tell it was just she was shattered and when she becomes a retired she really struggles to to do the most basic things so like you are saying you have to have that kind of military style routine yeah you know I think it's definitely helped obviously there's a couple of times where we've gone to events so like we've gone to like a sub play quite light and just normally getting back but after he's not a bedtime and obviously that can then be to struggle because he now is he should already be in bed should already be in this but we was trying to play catch up like trying to dinner trying to be better than but he as soon as he gets himself in the bed we put on like what we call the sleepy fish it's just it's a fish video on youtube where it's just the slowly dims and it's just got like like music behind it used to have one that was like as mushy monsters it's called sleepypaws and he just told you a story about how this like this bear goes to sleep and he's got like a little stuff of it but he doesn't really watch that one as much anymore but we just put the sleep the fish on until he falls asleep or until I start to fall asleep with him yeah I think what was that our um for our youngest we we used them on one does they plus those um so it was Dory cam and it's like four it's like three hours long but it's like just a visual like video of fish swam in through and like they kind of underwater ocean noises and that used to really work and sometimes it is very sensory orientated um you know our daughter she likes silence when she sleeps um our oldest he he can he can be sprinting around and then his brain just goes click and passes out honestly I've seen it before where he was um hopskept and then jumping and he's rooming and he just fell with the floor and I ran in after him and going oh god what just happened and he was he was pouring gently from the earth switch honestly I was like I was last sniper bullet I'd came through the window and taken this this kid out it's it's on like in its first facet I think I find it absolutely fascinating you know and we were talking about this before and they like stepping in your child's you know head just for a day oh I would love I would love to see what it's like yeah it would definitely be interesting at least I mean you were talking about the whole kind of certain things that you've played stuff I remember when I was younger we used to play I don't know how it was like super simple songs I think it was called like snowflake or something it's like a wee howling things of course we were getting past super symbols now we're back we've got a lot more back to it so it's constantly on my day and like I remember like I think actions I did to forest this was a baby and he would like start to fall asleep to that and there'd be times where I would just have to hold on my shoulders to have that and repeat for about 40 minutes has be sitting there the same thing over and over and over and I was going to ask if you guys ever had it where you're trying these all these different techniques to get him to go to sleep and it's more just working on yourself than them you can feel yourself just kind of nod and off and we can just steal them there's still flinching much it really doesn't you know I remember especially when our youngest when he was when he was a toddler um something for whatever reason at the time he would fall asleep on the divot between my my belly and my kind of upper chest area so it would be like a little courageous for him to just curl up in um and he wanted to keep doing that even now you know he's three and he wants to you know fall asleep on my chest and he's massive now and I'm like no you know um he's he's he's he's he's he's always roasting as well and tips the covers off and that's how as soon as I seen him do that when he was a baby I was like uh you're definitely my child I used to do that all the time we freeze and weather outside and carry on. off all the covers and the tram. But like there was so many different things that we tried when our youngest when he was younger. Like super simple songs, Mishra Cho was a big one. He's right into Mickey Mouse right now. That's his niche and he quotes it and he sings it. Was it the Mickey Mouse Club house? Yeah he sings that and he does all the voices. He's started to kind of mimicking the voices and it's funny because he does like a really raspy one for Donald and it just cracks me up everything I hear it because you know he sits there and he goes "Don't know, and I'm like oh cool" "You want an artist for a larger house and always will be Dougie" and number blocks obviously because he's a big like Alphabet and Numbers person. But Dougie's always been the staple of our household. I think Dougie's great. Yeah it's so easy to just kind of have on in the background sometimes. We've got introduced to it before a larger house born. I remember obviously when he was just born obviously she was watching it. I'm like "This is the stick song" and I'm like "This is the banger" Yeah. You get to that point when you prefer the episodes more than then. We write that with pop patrols sort of thing and you'd be like "Have you seen any episodes that came on?" Because that's the thing obviously with Ashton, your kids are probably the same. That a lot of the time they just watch the same episodes over and over. And parties kind of like "I want to know what happens next after that thing" but you know what I was saying. There's certainly episodes that our oldest can't watch off pop patrol because it makes them emotional. Which I found out completely by chance. It's not something that when you first start looking after an autistic child your partner knows to tell you. But I remember sitting I was sitting watching him. She was going out to get shopping. I had next thing in a way like he's just like inconsolable crying and I was like a phone and I was like "I don't know what's happening." These literally been sitting here watching his tablet. What's going on? She was like "What's he watching?" And I was like "Oh it's pop patrol" and she was like "What episode?" And I went "What does that matter?" And she was like just end up telling me "What's the episode?" And I think it was one where I'm trying to remember I think it was Rocky, it's kidnapped or something like that. And when he flies away it sets him off and I was like "Things that you just don't ever think about." That's a level of detail that you need to know. Like hands and outs of everything. So at any time I see that that episode is on like the like on the main TV and it's next I'm like "Let's just skip that." Yeah I remember I'm sure it was Peppa Pig I think it was. It was my niece. I'm sure it was Mila and whenever it was the some episodes in Peppa Pig where they would go and see their cousins and they would speak French and she really was the upset by that. It just shows you again like "Can I wonder what it is that kind of sets them off and these sort of things?" You said about SuperSimples earlier I was a little like a Lijuan he was very young. He was there was a free blowmice and I think it was actually a little baby one month obviously but it was always a free blowmice at one and obviously when they go up the rocket to the moon and stuff like that every time he came on he cried. Yeah just floods it he is so much so that if like he came on he had to die for the controller over a minute just because like we couldn't happen. You wonder what it is like whether it's like it's connected to a memory or something or anything like that. It's like an emotional trigger. Yeah it's something that you know you sit there and when it happens you're like what just happened and then when you try and piece it together like all dads do we sit and try and logically piece things together in life and you sit there and go there's no logic to this. There's no logic to this and for a logic based person like me that drives me up the bend. Of course. We said that. I like an answer. I said that to it to extend there is a logic to much of it but there's also like there is parts of it that would be as well like he was a logic watching a video the other day he had to like cakes in it and he was like he came coming down asking for cube cakes and I'm like I don't know what cube cake he's made like what have you found this. He was after a French fancy. Oh wow. Oh thanks. I could wait to describe it. Yeah and he obviously just randomly came to it and there was just other things that we've come across like bringing one obviously that never came to mind before obviously but thinking about it now we'd gone to probably one of the first events where I'd met you. Sure I'm and I'll see you action. Obviously meeting action and I'll see action is very vocal. But we noticed like when Elijah was doing something similar obviously like we had noticed that Elijah would vocal stem like similar. I was like oh shit like that's actually what he's doing there. Yeah. Yeah. Ashton is very very low. He likes to scream when he's happy and he's a very noisy boy and the benefit of that is he doesn't really tend to go missing. You'd find him. Oh yeah. It's when he goes quiet you need to kind of worry. There's so many times in soft plays where we sit there and go. You know I haven't seen a road just in a hot minute where is it? Where's it going? And then just all you hear in the background and I'm like oh no he's fine and I have to time you you'll find so in I play I know you were talking about I play there's like a rope swing just under the main slide. Yep. He will spend two hours on that so we have an annual we have an annual pass. Right. For I play and we have an annual pass for it's called Monty's Farm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly between the swing the trampoline that's up at the very top like corner and I play. Yeah. And then the big like outdoor balloon. Big pillow. Pillow. I'm on this. You cannot get a roadist off of it for you'll just stay there and still stay on there for hours. Ashton loves that pillow and that but the worst thing is when you get to Monty's if it starts raining. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just try to get it but the thing it at the Monty's at Ashton love for ages was to see there's like a wee boat at the back. It's just like an old boat so see if you can I go out and there's that kind of field bit. There's just like an old boat. He just loves going and standing in there sort of thing even if it's pouring rain. Covered and muddy just wants to go out there sort of thing but indoors and there is braline as well. It's so good. They've started doing ASN sessions. I've seen a couple. We've been to a few. It's been nice because that indoor bit there is only really one way out which is always a benefit when you've got our oldest that likes to make escaping look easy. Yeah and it's good. I think most of us kind of know which are these sessions now and know each other's kids so you kind of know like they're not going to kind of go too far and like that and someone's going to point out like I was one of the kids I get in a way so I think so. I think that helps with the chat as well obviously that's something that's easily helped us all kind of like make more conversation with each other. I mean I know for myself going to events or like things for ASN meetings before I wouldn't I'd speak to anybody because it would be too focused on the unlike Elijah. Yeah but obviously being able to have this conversation with like the chat and obviously getting to know people I feel more confident in myself being going up at Andy how you doing like you're doing Sam I've seen having a conversation as well as the kids obviously gives me a bit more of a social outlet. Yeah definitely. I remember one of the first times I was sure that I admit you Glenn I'm sure it was um Caltonees. Yes. I was good in there that sort of thing because it's quite again it's quite small it's all locked off and it's that way of like you can kind of have a conversation for a bit um I think and just what you said as well previously it's that way as soon as you go into these places you're like where's all the exits how far can they go in that kind of almost kind of gives you that way of like okay can I kind of get a minute to chat kind of do that or do I need to be on kind of constant alert because at any moment he could ask him at the moment is he's very aware of that he can now reach things sort of have characters so it'll be going straight away for bags of crisps but in like that and so you need to be very vigilant of that not even just stay escaping it's more of going for a food because that's like a huge trigger for him that he just wants to constantly eat um but not as good going to these places now that it's it's a lot better than going to kind of standard sessions it just feels totally alien now to go to a kind of non ASN session now and if you do go to any of these sessions it feels strange going into anything and not knowing at least one person yeah it's good not to be able to have to think you have to apologize to everybody as well yeah yeah when we first went we first got us off place and my wife was always an age I did my best obviously as the calm of a parent to kind of like let's find it I'll go with him it's okay everything's gonna be right but you still feel like you're having to kind of apologize to be because he can't say sorry because he's doing it a bit wrong he just wants to play whereas another parent can be like a wise your kid pulling my kid off a slide yeah yeah he can't help that he wants to go on the slide first that he is what he is whereas obviously in a session do you say that somebody like he's probably just seen there anyway yeah and it is brown that's like actually an ordinary session that's a session just nobody just wants to take everyone's phone not to play with them we just want to line them up and then say thank you and give you it straight back okay it was going round everyone sort of thing but he's just pickpocket and people and he turns up with these phones you're having to look at his phone is it? it's like a new iPhone 45 it's just what are you like how did everyone lose their phones and your little archers had them all lined up perfect for someone to just sweep into a bag. But it's that way where it's exactly what you say, Glenn, you don't need to apologise if a lot of the time now for things like bouncy castles, stuff, action, we straight up, pushing all the adults onto the bouncy castles. So I think it's that way of not having to apologise, which is a good thing. - Yeah, I think just like what you were saying there, I remember the first time we done the kind of ASN up and I was in every wreck. Like even I play a place that we'd been to a thousand times, but you still have that kind of anxiety of these people might not understand my child. You know, all of these and, you know, there's been times where we've gotten to, you know, non ASN sessions and they've been amazing and then you get other times where, you know, it can be a bit of a struggle, it can be, you know, there can be a chance but if they party and you have to try and stop yours from going in and eating the cake, you know, something that you have to consider. And I remember there was, there was like a bunch of, it was an I play, you know, the kind of football area. - Yeah. - There was a boy who, for whatever reason, just kept like, 'cause I wear our oldest was standing, he was just kind of, he was stimming in the goal. - Yep. - And this boy for whatever reason, I think, I don't know if he got frustrated 'cause he couldn't shoot into that goal, but he just kept blasting the ball at him. And I remember having to be fair, having a chat, sometimes having a chat with, you know, a, you know, a neuro-typical parent, it can be quite scary. - Yeah. - Because you're sitting there going, listen, match-out can, you know, he, he, he, physically can tell, you know, this to stop or he can communicate what he's doing right now or how he's feeling. So, you know, you just need to, you know, it's very much, you have to try and be like, listen, please, just keep an eye and if he is like getting in the way, like, we can obviously talk about it, but it was one of those that, you know, I think for us, especially me and my partner, one of us takes the diplomatic road. The other one goes into full, like, preparing for war, you know, and it's like, whoever's in the moment feeling calm, goes and deals with it because the other one will, cause a riot, you know. - I could say for this, I'm always the diplomatic one. (laughing) - You know, most of the time I am, but there's a few times I've, like, I've seen, like, a child do something and I'm like, oh, I'm like, I'm like, that, the child, you know, there is no consequence there, you know, and I think sometimes I'm like, you know, you have to kind of say, listen, this is my son, he's nonverbal, he can't communicate what he's doing right now, so we just need to have a little bit of an understanding and it's difficult, you know, and that's why these ASN sessions, when you have that opportunity to go are incredibly valuable. - Yeah, 'cause I'm kind of naturally anxious as it is, so it's just so good going to these sessions to be able to switch off and, as you say, not having to apologize, like, and say, most of the time, I should know, just be scouting tables, sweeping any cakes and things that you can find, but it's always that way of it. It's okay, it's okay, but it's a lot different if it's not an ASN session, everyone just thinks, you're, your child's just stealing everyone's food, but yeah, he's pretty smart that way, even if you try and follow him out, I remember, I kept having to try to stop him, and I was like, no, no, it's not your cake, it's not your cake. And this is where you know they're smart, so ASN had then took me over to a bin at the other side of the soft play, kicked the bin over, so I had to then pick everything up from the bin, and he just ran over, so let's do all the cakes that he could. - Oh, the brain process and how they put things together is so difficult. - Unbelievable. I know there's been so many times where I sat there and went, you know, my oldest, he's done something and then, you know, I'll see, he gives you this kind of side die, and I'm always like, as soon as I see the side die, I'm like, oh no, is it my life, he's breathing, there's something, there's something going on. He's got a plan for me, like, get ready, you know, and it will be the most, and it is, he gives you the most obvious tales that he's doing something, like he'll come out of the kitchen with his hand behind his back, like just kind of staring at you, like, nothing to see here, guys. And then you'll turn around and he's got like four snacks and he's hand in, I'm like, come on. You know, you know, and I think, but it always cracks me up, because, you know, they still, he still has that belief of, they just won't see it. - That's fair, that's fair. - No, no, and as that way I think we said last week as well, about when they do anything that I'm not supposed to, is that mixed emotion where you're kind of like, or you shouldn't be doing it so for example, like if Ayeshen does go and take something from the fridge, or he does something like that, or he sneaks downstairs again, that sort of thing, you're kind of like, at one point, you're like, no, don't do that, but at the same time you're kind of like, well, it's nice to have that kind of normal kid stuff, you're like, oh, I'm kind of glad that you can do that, if that makes sense. So you're kind of secretly telling him off at the time, to kind of be like, when you're still. - And we talked about it before, it's, and we'd spoke about kind of, when you, when your partner is, you know, expecting, you plan everything and you have this ideal life, and like you were saying, it's something that, you know, you're going to tell your child, no, you're going to correct your child on actions that they're going to do. But you think about it and, you know, something so completely different, like, you know, no, you can't go to your friends' house today, no, we can't go to the shop for sweets, you know, and you expect a bit of backlash from them, you know, when you step into this Ayeshen world, it's now, no, you can't wear your clothes into the bath. - Yeah, like, no, you can't put your hands, your nape and pull the poop that you'd just done out. You know, there's so many things, yeah, it's, there's similarities, like you were saying, there are similarities from what you think, but you also have those moments where you're like, no, this is completely different. - Yeah, it's a total changing thinking. - The best comedians as well though. - Oh, yeah. - Some of the things that our kids commit sometimes, with it's like, it's absolutely like, a light just comical, like, timing is so spot on. Like, we were driving like a couple of weeks back, it was going from somewhere, and we were going into, McDonald's, and my wife kind of took the curb a little bit, and a light just like, oh, bang! (laughing) - Should I never forget, we took all three of our children to be baptized, and so we were both anxious, rex getting them all dressed, hoping that, you know, certainly the, the boys wouldn't, you know, have any accidents and spoil the very expensive clothing that we bought. We're up at, we're up at the kind of altar area, and also I think it was like, the priest came out with the candle, and my oldest just turns around and goes, "Happy birth!" (laughing) And I was like, oh no, oh no, the whole place erupted, and it's like, you know what I'm saying, just the comedy side of it, you know, there's so many things, like, if I'm staying up, and you know, he's wanting to get out of his room and go for snacks, he'll turn around and he'll go, and he'll go, what's he says? We'll see Sam sleeping another day, (laughing) and I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'll sleep another day, yeah, I'll sleep another day, but-- - So almost as if I just like narrating the full time sort of thing in a third person, like, I remember one of the times, I can't remember what it was actually done, whether they had like broken something or tried to place or something, mean, shadow or like, oh my god, like, try to clean up sort of thing, try to figure out, and I can't really, it was exactly, and then Ash and just turned around and goes, you sound frustrated. (laughing) (laughing) - That's brilliant. - We'll do that, obviously, every day, I haven't, obviously, a larger is a very messy childhood, it is what it is that comes with a lot of our kids, but the same, it's always come out the same, like, at the same point in the same place in this room. So at any end of the night before we get to bed, obviously, we're trying to get in and touch up, and I'm like, Elijah, what's going on here, guys? What a mess. (laughing) - Does he do your accent as well? - He is essentially like, has an English accent, yeah, there's nothing Scottish about his accent at all. So I'm quite interested to see how Noah comes along speaking, mate, 'cause I think it'd be weird having one like, Scottish, get one like English accent antiqued. But he hasn't got, obviously, I'm originally from Birmingham. - Okay. - Right, and now everybody listen to this, he's gone Birmingham. - Yeah. (laughing) - I try very hard and not to sound like a brother, but sometimes it comes out in the words. But his accent is essentially English, and I think that's probably come from watching what he's watched and listening to me. - Yeah. - It's weird, obviously, because everybody else in his family is Scottish. Obviously, the people that he interacts with more is Scottish, obviously, but he's picked up my accent more. She's strange, but it's what it is. So sometimes he'll say, I think a couple of things, obviously, they'll have like a twang to it. - But, hmm. - Apparently, it is just like, it is English. - Yeah, I shouldn't just get a variety. to depend who is that he's been talking to and he's been watching it's just a total mix but then every once in a while it'll just, that's kind of thick Scottish or something like oh no so it's quite funny it's that way of trying to understand which is his own accent as opposed to just the kind of ecolalia but I think that's entertaining. I mean our oldest he has ecolalia and very much the way I like to think about it is he stores these phrases and tries to place them when you're speaking to them. I wouldn't say he has like a distinct accent you know my daughter she'd 100% everything is American. All the videos that she watches are usually American but like we'll go to the shop and she'll be like how many dollars is that and I'm like no sweetheart it's pounds you know and so many things where she'll ask it she'll be like why are we not celebrating Thanksgiving and I'm like we just don't do it here you know maybe I say it here all the time you know we'll take you to America one day and she you know she's like I can't wait you know and honestly I feel like she would just fit in absolutely no problem. She's just looking there perfectly. She would honestly. Yeah that's like everything with action so action used to be obsessed with the cutting fruit that you get so I think but it was always like eggplant and tomato and all that sort of stuff and try to get all those kind of different words together so he yeah you try if you try to change it at all there's just no points I think. He said that's how it is now so yeah I think I mean is it the phrases that normally come out in our house for our oldest it's like pop patrol that's a that's a big one and sometimes Thomas the tank engine many many many nights I've been called the fat controller which is always lovely. You know it's a bit of fiction. You know what? Yeah it's a bit of fiction. I think yeah pop patrol, Thomas and Belize and the Monster Machines. I don't know if any of you have seen that one. Yeah I think I've seen it but I mean I'd love to watch action to watch these sort of things. I've seen I'd love to watch these things but action have to take just watches because he just flicks back and forth himself there's nothing you could really watch. You don't have the time I'm sitting here and I'm watching it and I'm like this actually quite good. It's somewhere in our good like I mean I'll accept some of the stuff that he's watching just now that it's like to say we'll love things like it will be like super simple songs it could be like when the band goes marching in but then he'll find different versions of it's all distorted and what any any seems to really really enjoy it sort of thing which is again you'd wonder kind of what it is and set their head sort of thing but things like that or he likes things like Katie's classroom and the benefit of those sort of things is if he does go into feel like a hospital or dentist they'll have seen an episode where they go into these places and he kind of relates to it which is a good thing and I think we said before about how that was what we tried to kind of develop for a while when we knew that Ashton was having a little bit of echo while he was really getting into these different kind of TV shows and things we would try and adapt to kind of get them to start using them in context sort of even try kind of getting involved in that kind of we world with them so yeah so I long learning journey anyway. Oh yeah I mean through tablets through TV shows that's like that's for the majority how you children with ASN learn. Yeah you know and there's so many different ways that these children learn like I know that my oldest he's very same-series based like with his fingers and his toes so you know like we'll get like a book that's got different materials and you'll see him and he'll sit there and he doesn't care about the reading or the writing yeah but the first thing you'll feel the sensation and his face just lightens up. Is that like the that's not my books? Yeah yeah yeah. We just got a bunch for Elijah I've seen he randomly wanted them over Christmas yeah like we've just got a whole like library of them now and obviously just goes for you that's not my dark. We have about six the other in the house because Ashton went through Ashton goes to the obsessions with him and he wants every you need to read every single book before he goes to bed and he'll take them to school with them and everything's that and then one day go and doesn't want to see them again then it'll be six months later he'll just look at it and I remember because he'll just copy what we do a lot of time it would be a case if you'd go through it but that's not my dog this and then you get to then you'd be like ah that's my dog and because we're doing the kind of he would copy it and I remember at one point you had about ten books out he'd start to go and suddenly it could happen and ask my tax out of thing but those books were great like even we went to the camera if it was a zoo or we went somewhere and it really kind of helped to bring him in sort of things we like that's not my dog that's not my thing like and it's kind of like I think as I said to you before we're saying the only thing that it that it does make difficult is when you're kind of like that's not my peg and then you look at this kind of black and brown peg compared to the kind of perfect pink one in the book sort of thing but yeah we have a bit 60 of those books in multiple versions of each of them because some of them are ripped to bits and things so oh yeah like there's everything is almost has a lifespan in our house yeah and when it comes to our oldest if it's a toy for him there's a good chance it's getting you know we got them was it Christmas we got them the pop patrol tibber and we got them like all the different pop patrol characters and vehicles and honestly at the moment it's missing the station but because he just sits there with the station and he flicks it side by side and it does the audio of rider rider saying yeah something's happening and he'll just sit and play with that but I'm like whatever keeps you happy do you ever have that on your head you're kind of like they're playing with a toy in a certain way and you're like no no play with it this way because you're kind of like that's a really cool toy and then eventually you're like just just play with it wherever you want to do you want to just slide these two parts that are not even connected just do what you want sort of thing like whatever keeps you happy I got I mean I got my oldest I was helping him clean his room cleaning his room as an absolute nightmare and for about an hour I was trying to get him to recognise what a plate was you know just trying to understand it's what you like trying to describe things that he knew like so we say you know like once he's had his dinner I would say put it in his ink and for whatever reason he comes out and goes and put it slinky and I'm like close okay cool that's fine so I think I was it I was honestly at my wet's end last night trying to get his room cleaned and I was like the plate in this link and he went slinky and pointed at the plate and I went yes you know sometimes it's just finding that yeah that's one of those letters yeah it's like it's this small victories we talk about but yeah trying to find you know your own cues and your child's cues it's so important and finding what they they are interested in like you were saying about the books you were saying obviously about programs like when they're watching especially like the hospital or at home yeah it's really good as well I know I think we kind of I don't know what you guys we can dive massively probably more than we should into when action has like a special interest we try to get involved and we probably do over the top that's why I've ended up with 60 of these books or so and even for these birthday and so we for the last kind of couple years we've hired out the the Glasgow grovers to come and play for action sort of thing and so I'm pretty much doesn't know they do kind of singing and signing with Macatorn and Ashton absolutely loves she want to mail their brilliant and for his birthday they had made them because they knew that he loved those books they made them like I kind of personalised that's not my Ashton with pictures that they printed out and those sort of things were just kind of good to have that kind of memory but yeah it's good as well I think in terms of when they get a special interest that you can actually kind of get involved in in terms of reading these books because there will be certain things with action where it will be you just wants to watch something on the phone or he wants to do something you can't really get involved in so it's good when he goes through these periods where you can actually kind of interact with them quite a bit and it kind of makes you feel quite good and say to I think Elijah has over last year or so kind of interest in like my Xbox I mean you spoke about obviously like gaming like last one and I'd I'd introduce him to a couple like Gidea games on there but he really loves Minecraft and it's such a simple game that he just he can go in and he can just do everyone's with it and I started it by like making him a he's done a lot of flat-world and I did his favorite book is very on the Casper yeah and I just did every fruit and just went through as a as a person just eating all the fruit and that started his world from there he's just he's built it out and he just goes in and just a lot of the time it is wherever his again hyperfocus is just a larger big one is 20th century Fox and that can be a lot sometimes but he has built the 20th century Fox like logo so is it just a logo is it like does he like like watching like the canner he watches like the the the intro yeah on loop uh-huh thankfully we've just broke that like recently because he's he's gone onto up to not but that will just that's his constant it'll go back to it's at some point, but he'll be so much for fixation that everything he draws, everything he builds, all these toys he'll make at 20th century fox out of it somehow, like he just finds a way to do it. But is minecraft itself obviously, he's become, he's every iteration of the logo is on lock in this world, and he does like the lights for it and everything, like he's figured out how to do this from black. - That's brilliant, really impressive. - I can't do that. - That's unbelievable. - That sees, like, well, at first we were like, is he playing this too much because he'd get up in the morning and obviously he'd want to be on his straightaway. And then obviously he, but he doesn't stay any all day, like he'd jump away, go do something else, but he has to stay on the TV. - Yeah, and I think it's, I think I said to you before, I think the phone, and it sounds like it would delight you, it's good to give them something that they are in control of because with their lives a lot, we're the ones that have to make a lot of the decisions, and it is that we have, they don't have a lot of independence, so we're new and get that, whether it is a phone or a tablet, and they can decide what to watch or, as you see, Minecraft, they can build their own world, and give them that independence, I think it is massively beneficial. - I don't think screen time is as much I think, or it shouldn't be as much I think as we, as it has been made to, but it's such a save, you think, for a kid with a sexual issue. - 100%. - Because it can be the difference between being able to eat it, do they? - Or, yep. - Or just being able to function outside of the house. I know our oldest, he fluctuates between using his tablet, and he's toys in his room, or like he'll do the same, as you were talking about with Elijah, but no, sorry, I'm asking, but he'll pile 15 blankets on him, tell, you know, and, but a lot, he will always return to that tablet, you know, and it doesn't really play games on it, and it's not like that, but you'll sit and watch YouTube, just continuously, and it will be, like the Thomas the Tank Engine theme song in Japanese. - Wanna look, you know, just like you were saying, and it'll be, 'cause I'll sit there, and just at the corner of my, I'm like that, doesn't sound like Thomas the Tank Engine, and then I'm like, no, no, that's the video we retouched to, everything. - I remember when it was even, I don't know how they all do it, it's like a fashion finds one video we like, then he'll find in every language, and he'll watch it in every language. I remember it first, I was at the show, I was like, we can't let him watch this, like he's just learn to speak English first, like what if he picks up the wrong language, start a thing, then we've got no chance, but he'll do that in a rember, it was when he's doing these, it was like the cutting fruits again, he would love watching videos of those, but he'd find these, and it was, I don't know why, and it was, it was one of the countries in Asia, sort of thing, and it was a particular accent, it was to post it, learn people to speak English, so then he would say the fruit, and a completely different language, then he'd go like, oh no, no, no, and all that completely different accent, he'd go for them all sort of thing. - We've definitely watched that as well. I mean, I said to you guys previously in this week earlier today, that Elijah essentially taught himself like five different languages, they're doing the alphabet and like the numbers. - So good. - Like we went to nursery one day, and they were like, did you know Elijah can do the Greek alphabet? I'm like, no. (laughing) - He's sat here all day, like we went to one of the other girls, I'm like, what language is that? And they're like, it's Greek. And you can do like Russian alphabet, you can do like Arabic, you can like, and he'll just, he'll say it out too, and he's watched Russian like, nursery-owned videos on YouTube before, and I'm like, and similar to you, I'm like, I mean, I need him to be like, learning English words. (laughing) But, and he'll sit you down, and he'll be like, tell you what they are, and if you don't say it right, he goes, no, again. (laughing) - And it's not really that impressive, but I think that kind of highlights the full thing of, how education for these kids is so important, and it has to be kind of catered to their strengths and needs, 'cause it might be a case of Elijah can do all these different alphabets, but it could be if whatever the syllabus is, or the way they're teaching them, you're not gonna get that strength, and it's same with Ashton, I'm sure it's the same with your kids, sort of thing of these places need to make sure they are kind of working to their strengths, because they're, there are really strong points for our kids, but it can just be a lot of time, the structure is a problem, or the environment and things that I just trying to get to that point where you understand, kinda, I know that I'm tick-assentially. - I know, right now, since June, I know this is obviously been out, I think I talked with that last week, but that's been like a big chunk of these routine that's been taken away, you know? And like you were saying, you know, you would go there, and it would be learning, you know, from kind of one to 20, or practicing Elf a bit, you know? I mean, in between trying to escape, and he was trying to do like tracks on his tricycle out, and he would go out though with his bare feet, and ride on the tricycle, and basically, he was scared, he's feet along the concrete, you know? So it was all of these things, but we're desperately trying to get him in an ASN-specific education, and at the moment, and like you were saying, it differs for every single child, you know, every child learns differently. Like you were obviously saying, learning about multiple different languages, which in this, in today's world is brilliant, because everybody is everywhere, you know? But it's one of those trying to find ways for your child to pick up things, and I know, at the moment, for our oldest, we're trying to teach him a lot of safety. - Yep. - You know, when we go out walks, we react a bit, like look left, look right, look left again, and you know, we hold his hand, because he has, he has skeer ends that way we are. - Good, good. - Just to keep him close by, it's the only range that's fat, because he's five foot tall, and six to kilograms of pure muscle. So when we walk places, when we go out, it's all up, we're trying, always teach him a bit of safety first. So that's what we are focusing on at the moment, but it is one of those that you need his education. - Yeah, absolutely. - I think it's that, and I actually meant to say to, when I was kind of listening back to one of the episodes, previously when we were talking about, obviously, your oldest when he escaped, and I always kind of wanted that with Ashton of like, obviously you could never do it, but you always just wonder where they would go, like, in their head, there's somewhere they're heading to sort of thing, but you'd love to just somehow be like, I wonder what it is that they're actually trying to go to sort of thing, and how safe would they be in terms of how much of they're taking him and done it that way? It would be kind of interesting, but to kind of focus on the kind of safety thing you're talking about, obviously, glad you were seeing your track teacher, Elijah, certain keywords and things to. - Yeah, we are, obviously, we used to have a thing, obviously, because we moved about a year ago, and he would be like, where'd you live? And he's like, red door, 30th floor. And we like, so, where'd you live there? And obviously, we're trying to still make it right for him. - Yeah, don't get away your location here. - No, I'm not doing that. (all laughing) - Part here at Glunds. - And it'd be a case of like, so, he's having trouble with letting people change him in his, as Gordon's now. So we're just kind of like, who'd you let change you? Like people that you trust. So you're just making sure the right word has been used to these things. And like, who'd you, who'd you, he knows who's going to get him off the bus every certain day, so be like, who comes to get you on a Friday? No, no. Who'd you take you off the bus? - Oh, no, no, no, no. True they, dad. - Yeah. - And even if I see if it's, I'm taking the bus on a day that it's not made to me. He'll stay on the bus and be like, not dad. - Oh yeah. - Go on, yeah. - So he's like, is that another person that eats me today? And he goes, no, it's not a day, not a day. - So it was very kind of literal in that thing, in the routine, it's massive sort of thing. - Yeah, absolutely. - It's like, it's almost like going against the, the kind of fixed idea that he's going his head of, you know, that's his who's getting me today. And if it's anybody else, no. - It's weird, obviously. I don't understand how much he grasps the days of the week. Obviously we have a planner on the fridge that we use, obviously, and tell him what he's going to be doing on each day. But I know I've seen the holidays, that kind of blurs, and he doesn't really fully understand when he is. So I don't know how much he knows, but I think I was he knows, so days he goes to school. - Yeah. - And so days he has off. So I don't know if he can work that out on his head, which days those are, and obviously we do tell him, like today's Monday, like today, Tuesday, obviously. - Yeah. - What are we doing today? School today. So he doesn't know. I just don't know how much that he retains into, okay, today's this day. - Yeah, I feel like for certainly for our oldest, like we can repeat phrases, and I think sometimes it's like almost a little pilot for him to respond with that same way. So he don't, for us, we don't know if he's understanding what we're asking, or if it is just a quality, and he's like, okay, so, you know, if there's been times where he's obviously climbed, nobody's getting it, remember, we don't climb over the gate, and he goes, don't climb over gate, but he'll do it another. - He'll still do it. - 25 times, if he wants to. you know, and it's, it's like trying to build that on the understanding and just obviously to wrap up what we're talking about. But there's so many things that as an ASN dad, you have to consider for your child and we've spoken about sleep routines, we've talked about resources for learning. There's so much that we can contribute in us so much that the outside world also contributes to our children. No, definitely it's a huge learning curve for all of us having to essentially learn unless a long side kind of obviously your own personal situations and working everything so it's a lot to go with. But I guess so that's another episode wrapped. So thanks for chatting with us again Sam. Of course. Glenn. Yes. And to everyone who's listening if you are wanting to keep up to date we are on social media. Yeah, at ASN dadchat on Facebook and Instagram and you'll find the episodes saved on Spotify and you can also listen on Paisley Radio. So we are glad you're here. You're not alone and we'll see you on the next one. Thanks guys. Thank you. Thanks for listening. If you want to get involved or get in touch with us you can find us on Facebook or Instagram on our ASN dadchat. [BLANK_AUDIO]