Episode 3- What Judges Want- Jesse Lopez

Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to episode 3 of what judges want. If you haven't heard one so far, you've missed Gary McIntyre, you've missed Ben Morris, so get back and listen to those podcasts. But today I have Jessie Lopez super passionate, super enthusiastic. This really is an interesting one and a lot to unpack, it was super fun catching Catching up with Jesse. Let's get straight to it. Okay. How's it going? Jesse. Speaker 2 It is at an all-time Speaker 1 high. I'm so excited, brother. Thank you for joining me on a Friday afternoon. This will be released next week. So this is the Friday before the Wednesday. Speaker 2 Perfect. We've got a local Kansas City Event happening here next weekend called Midwest Westie Fest. I love this event and so be a great opportunity for our Kansas City and Midwestern dancers to hear about some of the things that they can expect to be. Anything over the weekend. Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. So I start every podcast with the same question, do you judge the different divisions differently? Do you go on the floor with? Okay, this is novice, this is my window. I'm looking through Speaker 2 100% the divisions by most judging Matrix, all that I've ever heard get judged differently including my own but I would I would start right off the bat. Since this is your initiating question with the idea that At our judges themselves and our competitors are no longer using a judging metric of timing technique and teamwork. The three T's is something that has been used in our community for a long time and I think, unfortunately we are finally moving beyond that as the standards by which we express what judges in general are looking for across all the different divisions because Baseline if your off time then You are messing up to technique of the dance. And you're not being a good teammate, like the realities of the three T's are so overlapped and ineffective as judging standards that. We've, we've had two out of necessity. Look for the more accurate reflections of the techniques inside of the dance that we can make less arbitrary judgments on. And the results of that is that we're starting to use the individual body mechanics standards. And the elements of swing that go into how we measure a dancers level. So that's what I Speaker 1 use, that's what you use. And so that, so when you first said we're moving on, from the three T's, I was like, so is this, is this good or bad in your opinion, but you're saying that that's great. We need to actually get past it. Speaker 2 Yeah, the timing of our dance is the technique of our dance is being, is being a partner, is being a good teammate in our dance. Those are not effective standards because they're not separated, and It well Speaker 1 enough. Okay, that makes perfect sense. So tell me, explain to me a novice dancers. Listening. You're looking around the floor. What pleases you? What gets their number put down on your pad? Speaker 2 I know, it wasn't included in the last couple of episodes with Gary and Ben, however, I would ask that we start at the newcomer division. Okay. Nobody is that, that's one of the fastest-growing divisions in the competitive realm. It is the novice yesteryears is today's Newcomer just like, just like we've had to add divisions over time this more new dancers who are starting. And so that's been a part of it. So, in the newcomer division, explicitly, we are using the novice standards that we used to maintain those three prioritizations of any of any social dance. Any partner dance, being the timing of the music against the movement of the dancer. Those are the three pillars by which Judge newcomer dancers, timing isn't as a priority feature of the individual techniques. In our dancing music is what we are timing. And the way that a dancer moves matters, so the movement of the dancer is the last measuring stick by which a judge can decide who's doing relatively Better or Worse. Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Okay. And then moving up, we're going to go through kind of each division. Yeah. Brother you know what? Jesse what, Jesse? What floats, his boat. Speaker 2 So I would argue just to set the Baseline. There are nine fundamental techniques 9 fundamental truth. That all instructors, agree, exist, timing, technique time. Technically more time and grounding framing are the three individual body mechanics. Those are the things you control. Your partner doesn't the next three. Partnership, communication, reflects Music Connection momentum and the last three pillars are movement structure and patterns. Those are the ones that reflect swing as a dance versus Rumba. Argentinian Tango Etc. So when we go to the novice division, judges add grounding as a standard because being on time is not good enough. As a novice dancer anymore, there are too many on time, novice dancers for that to be the only standard we use. So grounding is the expression of how a dancer actively manages their body's weight and balance. As they move from foot to foot, which is great because both of the other judges brought up this concept. So, so we're getting a little bit of consistency. Not near enough to have accurate one past, but a little bit of consistency. So grounding is the expression or is the measurement meant that is added in a novice Division and how a dancer controls that those weight shifts. As we upgrade the elements of swing from our Movement, we also add the structure. So it's not about the diversity of the patterns in the novice division yet, but rather the accuracy of the structure of the patterns related to our swing sentences that were expressing through the noun and verb of West Coast. Swing Speaker 1 explain the noun and verb of West Coast Swing to me, Speaker 2 okay? So in the inherent use of the kinetic language of West Coast Swing the noun tends to express itself as a double step rhythm. That is neutral in its momentum cycle. So it feels like we're just walking, whereas all of the active, all of the actions that happen in West Coast, Swing passing pushing with being anchoring, spinning, dipping diving, ducking. All of the things that happen happen in the triple step moment. And those happen through an active momentum where we actively pass. We actively spin, we actively encourage. So that is our languages verb and a sentence structure. The grammar of West Coast Swing is expressed in where the nouns and verbs of West Coast mango. So if you do an eight count sentence, that's because you used a noun, then a verb, then and noun in the middle. And then a verb 1, 2, 3, & 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8. And if you're, especially in the novice intermediate divisions, if your nouns and verbs are out of order then, We as judges read your dance, the same way that Yoda speaks and English uses him. But words not order are so understanding harder can be and you can get it. But when you put your doubles and triples out of order or you put your momentum out of order, then we then we read your sentences. Syntactically wrong. The syntax is incorrect. Our eyes. Don't agree with with the rhythms that you were expressing. And so, so Mark that down, I Mark that down but most judges would naturally Mark that down even if they can't describe Speaker 1 why. Yeah I was going to say that. I find it interesting that you're saying we as judges. I'm right you have a lot of confidence in this in the West Coast Swing judges that they're all this thoughts about. I mean do you guys Speaker 2 actually the opposite? I have I have a It's not even a lack of confidence. I just I understand the realities that that judging in, in West Coast, Swing is an arbitrary on. It's a arbitrary misinformed group of individuals who are making their best estimates, their best guesses based on eight seconds of information, which may or may not reflect the quality of the overall dancer in that moment. And has absolutely nothing to do just because I don't want any questions later has absolutely nothing to do with what the dancers are wearing. Unless the judge can't find anything else to make a better reason on and then it does have to do with what you're wearing or it does have to do with your shoes. And and it's because I have such a lack of confidence in the consistency of Judges making making decisions based on the way that were that were actually dancing. To that. I say we because it's it's natural at this point for the snap decision of any particular judge in west coast swing. And it's easier to say we the concept of the reflection of the whole rather than you the individual. So for all of the judges who listen to this in the future know that, you're one of the good ones you in particular, you're a good judge. I mean, every other judge in Westerly the collective, Speaker 1 We Speaker 2 need to educate our future judging panels. We the collective need to do a better job of setting standards for competitors in west coast swing. And part of that means adjusting the system by which we named judges. Because just for the record that we are actively working as a community, for introducing, a new math, concept to how we measure prelims votes, that's going to make it more fair for our any of our dancers that don't fit the visual standards. That you would that we see making it into finals. The tall thin willowy, dancers, who have a little bit of like balletic movement or flow to their body. Those dancers tend to be rewarded based on the aesthetic that they're, they're physically built with but our masters dancers are larger. Dancers are just physically tight dancers, are rhythmic dancers, they don't get that same reward measurement and a big part of that is because Speaker 1 The Speaker 2 way that the scoring system works and so Doug Rogers working to introduce a new scoring metric. That is so much more fair for the middle competitors as opposed to just the clear yeses and the clear nose and it's going to it's going to revolutionize. The competitive field is going to make such a difference, but I as a teacher, I'm so excited about Glenn. I can't even tell you because instead of a judge being named, so instead of Jessie Lopez gave you a score, there's the potential for us to start naming. X in the dance as the judge. So the the framing judge gives you a score, the timing judge gives you a score. The grounding footwork judge gives you a score and of course, that means that a competitor coming out of a prelim round is going to be receiving automatic educational feedback that they can take home to their teacher be like, okay I made it to finals and timing a grounding, but the framing judge gave me a no. So what can I how can we work on my frame? To be able to like show better quality next time and that's going That's going to be huge obviously for our competitors. I'm so excited what that's going to mean. Speaker 1 Yeah. That sounds like a game changer. That's exciting. You have to keep me in the loop with me too. Speaker 2 I'm excited. I'm so sorry. I took myself off track but I'm Speaker 1 excited. Cool. No this is is this is all it and I was just going to say like my goal for this was to tell the the dancers what judges are looking for. And there's a back back side to it that I want the judges to really think about what they're looking for. Hell yeah. So so what we're saying about the judges and obviously the judges listened in a Great. I do believe that all judges are fantastic. Yeah. The I do believe there's some judges out there that have probably never had this conversation with themself on what they're looking for when they go out onto the floor. So I just feel that was my goal with this podcast as well as to get us all thinking, get there, some dialogue because if I put someone in first and you put them in 12, I don't think you're wrong. I want to know why? Because it's going to educate me and we just never have those conversations. Well, Speaker 2 in this is, this is for the judges halfway, but this is So, for the competitors, so to the competitors who receive both a first and a 12 know that you probably deserved both of them, instead of like one of them hates you, or one of them loves you, or one of them, saw you at the right moment and the wrong moment know, at some point you were the worst dancer in finals, guaranteed. And at some point, you were the best answers in the answer in finals. So, so when you don't have the competitive results that you want in the future psychologically, protect Yourself and Brandi, Guild is a great advocate for this. But there's two things you can do one, set appropriate goals as a competitor and make sure that those goals aren't related to the unmeasurable of whether or not you made finals. The unmeasurable of whether or not you took a specific placement in the final round because you don't have control over that. And to be honest, neither do your judges, your judges don't art accidentally picking you or accidentally not picking you. You should have made it to finals, but you didn't this time, it was Speaker 1 Accident. They didn't see you Speaker 2 at the right time or they didn't see you on the right song. You slayed the blues song, but then the Contemporary came on and it wasn't a good dancer. It wasn't a good partner which isn't fair, don't do that but but whatever the case may be, if you if you succeed and you remind yourself in your successes, but this was an accident and that the judges, the judges accidentally picked you, it wasn't because you did well or poorly. Then you can We protect yourself part two in, the pink, clay case, where you don't do well. That's okay. That was an accident too. It has nothing to do in the reflection of me. My value was a person. My value was a dancer. It's just that, this is when the judges saw Speaker 1 me, and this is what they happen to think accidentally in that Speaker 2 moment. Because sometimes they don't have these Speaker 1 conversations part of it. Yes, it makes perfect sense. Okay, so going back to division, so it sounds like, you don't necessarily have different criterias, it goes up. You've got to tell me if I'm wrong. It seems like you have Speaker 2 the newcomer round the newcomer round timing music movement in addition to the timing music and movement in the not this round were also looking for grounding inside of the individual mechanics and structure in your elements of swim in the intermediate round is the first time that we're paying attention to the connection and momentum cycle because it really takes that long for dancers to start developing an effective. Use of connection and momentum. So now, in an intermediate round, we're paying attention to a dancer's timing grounding and Framing and intermediate round. We're paying attention to the dancers movements structure and use of pattern and we're paying attention to the dancers, music and connection which is only missing one truth. And that doesn't show up until the advanced Court category of the advanced category. We add the concept of momentum. I add the concept of momentum. And I allow that to to play a part in our dance score. How is it that you're using the kinetic energy of the dance to move with your partner across the floor instead of next to your partner, while we're dancing? Then, of course for the All-Star division is really the first time that dancers start getting credit for the way for the quality in which they land, their break in which they express their, my Acro musicality their critical musicality depending on which term you use. And it's also the first time that the audience is supposed to have a wait inside of the dance, how you engage with your Partnership of the audience and how the audience reacts to the choices that you make, because in the Speaker 1 newcomer novice intermediate divisions, Speaker 2 maybe the advanced Division, if you're looking for a tiebreaker, but even in the advanced division, there are still so many other qualitative techniques that we can measure against itself. That doesn't To do with the external of the music that the DJ chose, or the audience, and how active they are to respond to you, Champions division is its own thing. Champions division is its own Speaker 1 thing. The great one. Speaker 2 It's like My judgment on that never ever matches. What actually happened. I'm not gonna worry about that one, but those would be my standards moving up from newcomer all the way through all sir. Speaker 1 Yes. Okay, well that was incredibly clear and concise, I love that. I feel like it just the I could literally write that out and go. Okay. This put makes perfect sense, I think that's phenomenal, if you can't be specific with it and Speaker 2 you can't articulate it. That clearly. How can Speaker 1 we expect? Just student to be able to succeed at it and that all the responsibilities as professionals. Sorry. No, no. That was one of my things with trying to keep these short and sweet because I feel like if we can't be that clear with it in a short amount of time, if we need an hour and a half to be discussing this, there's a problem, you know, it's like the swing content. What is Swing content? If we need that long, john Festa once said something to me, the best that the worst thing about West Coast Swing is, is that? You can't say what it is? Mmm. And I was like, that's so true because we can all sit here and just say oh well it's this well it's this well it's this but it isn't this but it you know and it's like that's why it's an hour and a half conversation before we even get into anything. So you being so concise is just incredible for me. Speaker 2 Well I appreciate I appreciate that that matters. John Fester's, a literal Legend. I still loved one of my favorite dance lessons ever came from him and I still love the prioritization, he gives all, he gives leaders and followers in the use of Stop. Stop is so prioritized. And other dance styles how we stopped in hip-hop matters. That's how you express, the music. How you stop and West Coast, Swing matters. That's the punctuation of our dance. Our anchors are that punctuation of our language when we use a delay, anchor, Rock, and go, which is a comma in West Coast Swing. If we use a floating anchor, the question mark of West Coast Swing were cut off, anchor, the exclamation point, those express our ending. Things in the differences of feeling. So, being John Festa says like leading, stop is way more important than meeting going. 100% agree with them. Also, I have an answer to the swing content thing just like real easy off to the side. So if n is timing, grounding framing Music Connection momentum movement and structure. The only major technique the only major technical family that is not swing. Content is patterns, boom. Speaker 1 Mic Speaker 2 drop well, brother. Like patterns left side, passes exist, in almost every partner dance, inside turns outside turns sugar, pushes versions of whip, Stella marks all exist. In all other styles of partner, dancing patterns themselves are not swing content. So we are killing the soul of our community. When we try to say that you have to get your basic shape of patterns down, when you have to get your foundational patterns. Down, we're killing, the soul of our swing dance. Because we are, we are telling people that it's the cup, the coffee mug, the wine glass that matters and the use of the pattern to decorate and make a really beautiful wine glass that you fill with really shitty wine is still disgusting. So it's what goes into the glass that matters it is, what goes into making the pattern? That makes your swing content and how you move your body, how you time your body to the music that we're dancing too. That's when content patterns Speaker 1 just hold it. I like it. Okay. So we are, what time are we at? We've done 20 minutes. I've got a couple of questions that people have sent in. Yes, sir. The first one is just smiling Speaker 2 matter. Oh, that's new. Wow, yeah, absolutely. In that we want to, we want to practice, we want to practice the culture of our dance as actively as we practice the physical execution. One of our dance. So the three primary cultural elements of West Coast Swing, our consent, empathy and Duality and as part of the empathy experience of your partner and honestly, part of The Duality whether or not you're having fun, but as part of the empathy experience you want to, you want to help your audience, your judges, and your partner, feel that you're comfortable, you want to help them impasse with that. And you want to make sure that your partner's feeling, like you're enjoying the experience with them. And that's There are not, you are so practicing smiling is then, it is is a really important tool in the same way that you would practice your triple step because it keeps, you visually facially engaged with the dance and with the partner, Speaker 1 those are awesome and that leads us on. You just mentioned triple step this way, I've had this question every week, okay. I've been told it novice. I have to Triple step, leaders and followers. What's your opinion on that? As a judged, you look around the room. Oh, she's only done two triples. He's out of 5. What's your view? It's the well in the heck, Speaker 2 how in the heck? Would anyone have the time as a judge to count the number of triples that you executed? Now, if you do a triple you should do it accurately and that's whether you do it accurately to the music or whether you do it accurately to your body's placement. I don't care. But you should do the triple step accurately. You're choosing to do it but we only see you for a couple of seconds. So it's not a measure of how many times inside of the song that you did it and that's obviously that's in general competitors. When we closed a block of timing, a set of timing day that counts for two beats. And we tend to close that in our bodies resolution of movement, most of the time we count that, as a straightening of the leg, it doesn't have to be, but most of the time, that's how we count it. So, as long as you're really clear with where your time, A block is whether it's a single double triple quad. I don't care not, not as Speaker 1 a judge, okay? That's super interesting. As I said, I've had that question every every week I get at least two or three messages with Will. So, and so still says this and I'm like, okay I'll ask, I'll ask the next judge. Our dance Speaker 2 uses uses triples as an expression of verb, so when we read the triple, it does matter to how we see the experience. But like as far as the number of times you have to Triple in the dance, that depends on how many verbs you're using. Speaker 1 There you go. No, I'm gonna. That's all I have for you. Is anything. Anything else you wanted to share with everyone? It can be about anything in your whole life. You guys are doing anything. You guys are up to when Speaker 2 I was eight years old. Speaker 1 Hi Speaker 2 sure. Deter turtle in the creek behind my house and I brought it up to my mom and I said, mom, look, I found a turtle and she wanted to take a picture. So I kissed the turtle on the nose and the turtle bit me on the bridge of my nose and I screamed and let go. Go and it stayed there. So it's because it didn't like it's a turtle. So yeah, I'm head back and forth and it's clapping me on the side of my head and apparently that version of of concussed is what has created the brain differences on my end, that makes me that helps me to describe swing differently but I can't emphasize enough. How passionate I am? How passionate I am about looking for educational Paradigm shifts and for judging Paradigm shifts in the future of West Coast Swing for Speaker 1 One who's Speaker 2 interested in being a part of that go to be LCD, dance and get connected with my website. There's an email that you can sign up for or find Ariel. And I at a convention come to our group classes come to The BLT language seminars. We try to share them everywhere we go as, as a further expression of what West Coast Swing the literal dance language is so that our community can can grow and how we dialogue about it because like you said the specificity of our words here, Matters and it's been far too long since the Professionals in our community have been able to engage in dialogue about it. That's Speaker 1 awesome. And I'm off to Google. What a creek is did is that Creek? Yeah, I good. I got. Speaker 2 Dang it. I said it. I said it like that for you. I thought that was going to help you understand it better. Speaker 1 Well, I can't thank you guys enough and I want to say you guys because I know Aerials in the background, I had a giggling and and stuff. So it's good to have you guys on and I can't wait to see you in event soon. I love watching you dance. And I appreciate your time. And that is episode 3, hope you had a great time, guys. I'm Glenn bored and don't forget to join the Facebook group. What judges want, send me some questions, send me people. You would love me to interview. I'm getting so many questions through. I had a really great one about interviewing ahead judge, I will be on that. So please please please, this is for you. So let me know what you guys want. As I say, I'm Glenn bull. Find me on Facebook, I'll see you in event soon.