Episode 3 Mickey Ingles and Rebo Saguisag on Sports Law and Managing Crises

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome to Gold Diggers! A show where you discuss stories of leadership and motivation with sports serving as an allegory, I'm your host Carlos Pineda, your resident boxed-to-box midfielder or point forward, transitioning from esports to football and vice versa. In the previous episode, we had a conversation with another former Philippine Ascle in Anton Del Vrsario, teaching us that passion builds opportunity which eventually leads to creating communities, and we clearly saw that with his venture in La Roque, with his sevens football league and recently with Maharlika F.C. But the opportunity to have meaningful conversations with Anton wouldn't be possible without the help from my fellow Gold Diggers, ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome all of them, Simone Rellian-Robbie! [Applause] Hi teammates, welcome back to Simone here today, it's going to be an exciting and interesting episode, and it's going to be pretty educational too, so I hope you guys stay until the end of the episode. Hey fellow Gold Diggers, Rellian here, another wonderful evening here on a Saturday night, and I hope you stay tuned till the end, because we have two great personalities right now if you wouldn't want to miss. Hey teammates, Robbie here, so thank you very much for paying attention to our program so far, and we're very excited as we get to discuss some interesting topics with very relevant and distinguished gentlemen tonight, so stay tuned! It's a pleasure to have all of you here, and as mentioned by all of our fellow Gold Diggers, that's right, we have two! Two distinguished guests for today, both are considered to be pioneers, trailblazers and advocates for the development of sports law, thinking about the bigger picture where their efforts would contribute to the progression of Philippine sports. First, it's an accomplished football player who won three straight UAP championships for the Athenaeo de Manila Blue Eagles, who is always thirsty for chasing goals both inside and outside of football pitch, as seen with his accolades both from the Athenaeo law school and Georgetown University. A game changer, setting the tone for the legal side in sports through his book, laws for sports and the sporty, a mentor. Serving as a full-time professor in the Athenaeo law school, yada yada, you know what, there's a lot of things to say about this guy. Let's just call him a natural renaissance man. Let's welcome Attorney Mickey and Glass! Good evening guys, thanks for having us. It's been honored to be here, and I love the energy so far. Thank you so much, thank you so much for those compliments, Attorney Mickey and Glass. But of course, we do have our second guest, he is a proclaimed frustrated basketball player who took his airballs and turnovers to the University of the Philippines, where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in sports science and ended up as a coach for assumption. A man with a holistic approach as seen when he left his coaching career to follow his father's legacy by pursuing public service, which has given him an opportunity to work with Attorney Abbi B night. A man who never shuns away from the biggest responsibilities and his love for sports as seen with this involvement as a commissioner for the UAAP back in season 78, he is now the first and current executive director of the UAAP Ladies and Gentlemen. Let's all welcome Attorney Rebo Saguisa. Thank you so much for that very kind introduction. Welcome to the bigger, our viewers, our followers, our state-tellers. We just like to say, we're way back in the 80s for the young ones, when they were younger, they were able to get older. So right now it's cool, but back then it was not so cool. It was a bad news on Google bigger father. That's a nice story without a attorney. It's so nice. There you go. That's a spirit. I mean, I'm aware that both of you guys are extremely busy in this pandemic. Like, I see your names being mentioned a lot in the media. Now, tell us, what have you been up to lately? Let's start first with you, Attorney Mickey. Oh, so I've been doing a lot. I'm doing law firm work for our law firm, the law firm of English Law Rell Co. The one. And on top of that, I'm releasing another book this October. So it's just balancing a lot of things. And on top of that, I will like sports law classes also online. All right, Attorney Rebo, now's your turn. Yeah, yeah, picking up from what Mickey said, he knows this. We've been talking about this and how zoom has practically broken all boundaries. So it's a zoom after zoom meeting after zoom meeting. So from that, I've been doing a lot of home improvement. So what you see the back actually, I know what I was know. And I've been into gardening all this stuff that you never knew you could do pre-pandemic. So I'm not happy that the pandemic happened, but you know, sometimes you realize there's so many things you can do at the house. So there. Yeah. All right, indeed. I mean, zoom meeting after zoom meeting and then all of a sudden, you have other hobbies, you know, writing books or into gardening. Yeah, that's a lot of shenanigans happening in this pandemic. All right. So Attorney Mickey, I like to start off with you. I mean, you've created a lot of buzz as the go-to guy for sports law conducting a lot of webinars and part of your teaching profession. So, you know, you have this approach, you know, when it comes to teaching, like you insert a twist of creativity. Like you're not like the traditional professor that's going to be by the book. You have to insert some sort of like creativity involved so that you could enhance the attention span of your student. So I was wondering, how do you do it? How do you make it interesting? Well, well, I'm a traditional teacher when it comes to course objects in the law school, like taxation law and constitutional law. But when it comes to like my electives, like sports law, I try to mix it up. So I got this concept in the States that you want to reverse the classroom or you reverse the classroom. Meaning you come to class and the students have already known the things that they have to study. And then I just test them and the way I test them is through a lot of role playing when it comes to my sports law electives. So they come into class knowing what they have to know. And then I get a few guests coming in who will act out a certain story that has something to do with sports law. That the students have to come in and give their advice on. So that's pretty fun that they really like it. And we also have like a we call it the UAAP NBA fantasy league where we get some UAAP teams assigned them into an NBA team. When you follow the real time stats of the NBA and the goal there is that the students have to make their own UAAP rules within the confines of the student athlete protection. So they act as like the precedence of the UAV members schools and they try to knock other people out by making rules which are self serving, which is just like in real life. Right. So that's a pretty fun way that we teach the class. Oh wow. That's a really, really unique twist right there. I mean, I did not expect that. You know, all of a sudden you input like an NBA fantasy version and then you implement the UAAP rules like wow, that is literally the most mind boggling thing I've ever heard. I mean, that would actually entice a lot of people, you know, who's not really that interested into law or who has this mindset like that law is pretty boring or you know, it's by the book and then all of a sudden you bring in something that's out of the meta. And then you can see that you're in a revolutionary concept of teaching. Wow. That's really fun. And usually the people who win the fantasy game are people who don't know anything about basketball. So that I don't know why it happens. It just happens. Oh, okay. That's an interesting study. All right. Can I add to that? All right. Go ahead. Yeah, because really I actually mentioned this earlier. You're like John Keating and then for its society and how I'm conventional. Yeah, well, I'm really happy that the school is very supportive of my teaching methods when it comes to electives. So without the support and even without the support and the impromptu of the opinion law school administration, I wouldn't be able to teach these kinds of electives. So I'm very thankful that they're open to these forward progressive classes and subjects. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, obviously an open mind actually creates a lot of opportunities and you can clearly see that from your teaching experience. Now let's shift the attention to attorney, Rebus Agissa. You have no plans to begin with to be involved in sports or politics, but then you ended up as an executive director. You started off as the basketball commissioner in the UAP and then transition to becoming the league's executive director, a first time physician in the league's history if I recall. So I was wondering what were the qualities that the UAP board of directors and owners saw in you that made him decide that you were a good person. the right man for the job? You know what? You better ask them. I really don't know what they saw in me. In fact, I could recall my own the first time I probably came out in a paper and the headline wrote. simply I was so excited. I was in the papers. But the headline said when I read it again, it's a said, "UAP selects unlikely commissioner emphasis on unlikely." So, well, as my Russian name was very thin, I coached high school basketball in assumption. But I guess that at that time, I came at the right time, the only thing that I highlighted there was integrity. So my father opened a lot of doors for me and I really helped a lot. I wouldn't be ashamed of it, but I would like to think I tried to make the most out of it. I mean, I can walk through right through it. And after that the man, maybe because of the hard work, being a lawyer, the training in law school probably helped, being a commissioner because he's really pretty much knowing mastering the rules if I may. If you see David Stern as a lawyer, Adam Silver's lawyer, I'm not mistaken, the major league baseball commissioner is also a lawyer. So, those things are safe. And there's something, someone you know, because they tried to veer away from the traditional names at the time. And yeah, at the time, it seemed like my first time was able to repeat, not only repeat, but repeat as commissioner. And like you said, the first first eb ever. So I'm very happy where I am. But I like to know that I would like to clarify that I wanted to be in sports, but my ambition was very simple, I just wanted to be in the NBA. I wanted to shoot better than bird. Simple, right? Pass better than magic and jump higher than Michael Jordan. Not because you think down it. It didn't work out. So, because where I am, I attended sports science in U.P. And yeah, and I ended up here. I guess the secret was just working hard. You never know where you end up. And I am here. I am right now. Yeah, indeed. You know, you have a really, really humongous ambition before you know, jump higher than bird or Jordan. All those legends in the NBA. Wow, okay. I mean, I can clearly see from both of you gentlemen that sports is something that's really, really close to your heart. The point where you're able to venture into sports law or to like the upper tiers of sports management. So I believe that my fellow gold diggers would actually want to dig deep to uncover more. So let's once again welcome all of them. Simone, Rellie and Robbie, the spotlight is now directed on you. I'll go first, guys. So, um, you both of you are very involved in sports law with attorney rabble and the UAP and with attorney Mickey, even teaching sports law and you've written a book about sports law. So, in what you guys do, what is your main goal in sports law that you're planning to address? So far, it's just to improve Philippine sports using law as the mechanism to improve it. So that's the, that's what I have in the horizon. That's what I'm looking at because I always feel that anything that you want to improve in the Philippines, one of the pillars or the foundations that you have to fix or make firm is the legal side of it. Because if you don't have a good legal side, then it's just going to crumble or it's just going to be like people doing arbitrary things. So I'm not into Philippines. I mean, I can't improve the Philippines sports through my athleticism or through funding. Other people can do that. But my expertise is with law. My training is with law. So I'm trying to use my training, my expertise in order to help the Philippine sports, Philippine sports just improve two or three notches higher than it is right now. So that's my main goal for Philippine sports using law as a way to prop it up and make it better and make it something that we can be proud of internationally. I can see behind you is your sports law book. So that's, that's, that's technically placed. Yes, of course. No, it's just there. Random reason. Thank you, that Mickey. How about you, Tarni, Rebo? In the UAV? Yeah, I'd like to be fair to Mickey, because I think he's the maybe really the pioneer, and when it comes to practicing sports law. Although there's this case, I don't know versus months of the Sabine, it would be different, strictly practicing law. When you're in it, because like Mickey said, everything actually, Sabine from the cradle to the grave, and even beyond Lahtian, when you're certificate in legal documents, somewhere in between employment, contracts, etc. When you're in that certificate, you're also in contact with them. Even beyond succession, right? But as a lot, there's the law of gravity, law of inertia, loss everywhere. So what is the UAV? There's a corporate side of things, we have to submit our corporate papers, the rules, etc., etc. So, you know, in a way, while I'm not strictly the traditional sports lawyer in the traditional sense, you application of the legal principles within the organizations, like Siguro, in Ausgang, Salif, I mean, can you do that? I tried to make sure to put some semblance of legality like Mickey said, no? I think, like, symbolize, I think that's what they saw. Now, let's do, mentioned it, when I was commissioner, somehow, they may not agree with me, in my coaches or the players, but somehow, when you start a legal basis under the rules, it seems like you're away, you're away, you're away, you're away, you're away, you're away, you're away, you might disagree, but then, you're away, you're away, you're away, you're away, you're away, and I think that's what in a way, I'm doing my share within the organization, to somehow, not to worry about the situation, but then, as you know, the codification of our internal rules, should really come, maybe this is the time, pandemic, I'm saying that, you are going to be a bit more serious, than you are, you're going to be so loud, just like, you're so loud, you're so loud, just like, you're so loud, except, zoom, you're going to be a little bit more serious, there you go. Are you guys planning to work together, and that? Where somehow, collaborating already, I consult, if I'm, I'm making, I consult him and then in big issues, big or small, and during the hosting year of our last year, I think, I think we also, yeah, a lot of issues already, no, problem is a means, yeah, I know I can't afford the legal fees of attorney in glass, so make sure it's pro bono, you're all right, you're all right, we're talking about the talent of, oh, good technique, you're not going to get away with it, yeah. Yeah, regarding the issues, attorney, so I mean, there are cases when things become overwhelming, especially when certain issues arise, one after the other, or issues that sort of blow up, for example, because of media exposure, other reasons, we'd like to know what are your biggest challenges so far with regards to your role as an ED in the UAP. Okay, how did you overcome it? Biggest challenge really is sometimes, you know, what's the big deal? It's social media is so much pressure, and I was off social media before I became a politician, I avoided it, you know, I then ever had Facebook, Instagram or Twitter, I only had that because I had to, because I had to, say, in the end, gaming, somehow you have to be felt, especially now, it's a pandemic, you don't have to be seen in all these platforms, try a main of the heat up to avoid sometimes you get bashed, you know what I mean, rather, you ignore them, but sometimes if you click on Twitter and you know what, then what's the reason why I'm doing what would be done to you, you're going to be done, so that's the biggest challenge right now. You just have to know when you're doing it, you're going to like your tweet, you know, somehow, I encourage you, but the other thing that I remember when I first became commissioners, I've been a rebel, a friend inside the AAP said when the season starts, and through enough, you know, I mean, there's the time, 10 times social media, because sometimes they hide behind their names, etc, etc, so talk six, you know, because you know, and my wife is in it, and my wife gets affected, and I get away from her, over things I didn't know, so that's it, you just don't make a big deal out of it, you know, I try, no, no, it affects me, I mean, it affects me, I try to shut it down, because if you know you're doing the right thing, okay, you know, I'm just trying to ignore it, I think she has a quote on this, so it helps to be deaf sometimes, the ones that are applicable to the RPG, so yeah, it should be deaf sometimes, yes, in peace, RPG, yes, these are BG, notorious RPG, yeah, how about you, Mickey, what are your challenges so far and what you do? Challenges so far, well, I think two main challenges, the first one is actually education, and not really like educating, like my students or educating athletes, it's more educating people who are already in institutions or in establishments, especially judges, if you have a sports location, you want to try to educate them, that this is what's happening outside the Philippines, and it should happen here also, because it will help grow the sport more here, or it will protect the athlete more here, that's a big challenge, because as we all know, if you are used to a certain kind of thinking, a use to a certain kind of lifestyle, it's hard for you because inertia to just - Just leave that, right? So. It's a bit difficult for me when we're trying to convince people that this should be the proper way of doing things because what I know is that it's easy, it's easy, it brings in money, it improves the life of people whose lives are already proved to be good with. So it's hard for us to sort of thinking into another category and a category that will hopefully help Philippine Sports in general. So that's a big challenge that we have right now. One challenge is a part of education is telling people that they have to know your legal rights and you have to know your legal obligations, especially when we're dealing with athletes because of course I mean athletes are used to just playing, just focusing on their sport. But once they're focused on their sport, there should be other people who are plugging in the gaps for them when it comes to their finances, when it comes to things to protect them in the legal side. So we're trying to help some athletes in their legal side but as lawyers we can't go to an athlete and say "we have to know how to do it." Because it's against our professional ethics. We can't be that aggressive. So the challenge is finding that balance of trying to help an athlete but not be an ambulance chaser on the other side. So that's a thing and the way I'm trying to overcome it is through writing. That's why I have the blog just to show you a look. This is a free service that we're giving you free general legal advice. Hopefully that you guys get to educate yourself to the extent that you know when you actually need a lawyer. So that's the goal. That was the goal of my sports law blog to begin with. Educate for future use of athletes so that they don't get abused, get taken for granted by coaches or by teams. The name of your website, your blog is Batas Portiva, right? Yes, yes. So yeah, to all the teammates out there if you want to know more about sports law, please check out Mickey Inglises Batas Portiva. Yeah, yeah. Imagine you're a Malina, imagine during my time again, my age is showing you, before these social meetings, blogs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine highly placed people in government calling me trying to influence my decisions and grab you, man, what is just a game? If this is happening over a UAP game, just imagine the love being that happens in the rest of the issues that come from the country. So that's a big challenge. And another challenge is the UAP tickets. People seem to think I have the tickets and I don't. I'm going to advise Mickey to buy tickets so he can buy tickets. You can pay for the season. Yeah, you got one. Yeah, from the cut in season. I'll try to get you one as my consultant. I have a question for them. It's okay for us. So how do you overcome the big waves and the politicians trying to influence you? I just got my father and this is standard ground. And at the end of the day, I think that's why I was able to repeat. Because people, again, might hate me but I know that I don't have a lot of money. Maybe that's what really worked for me. So there you go. Good job. Good job. Thank you. Can you just say, "Rev, that is so cute. I call my father." Yeah, because what would Papa do, right? W.T. will have to Papa do it. Because he never cared. He never really cared about anything. He's not an agenda. And he's my role model. So just as a third, you're less senior about, or are you junior Mickey? No, no, no, no. But I'm sure he made the big reds. And your dad's my idol, right? Oh, yeah. Especially your my idol. And I don't know when you broke out of Mickey graduating and topping the bar and then championing your AP athlete and then wanting to pioneer sports law. I said, "For years, I want to do this, but I never had the guts to do it." And here's this young boy, I'm younger than him. He's doing what he wanted to do. So congratulations Mickey. It's a good job. Thanks, Rebo. And thanks for the feeling, guys. Yeah, definitely. Okay, last question for me, guys. So you guys have frequent interactions with a lot of sporting fingers in the Philippines. And, you know, the players, the coaches, the managers. So from what you've experienced with all of them so far, what conclusions or what realizations have you formed about the Philippines, sporting scene and their knowledge of sports law? Mickey? Well, I've always said that sports law in the Philippines, I see it like it's in the infancy stages because people don't really know much about it. And there's so much room to grow still. So that's usually the metaphor, I say, like, in infancy stages. Other metaphor that I use is like the Wild Wild West. Since people don't know about it, but it's just figure it out. And the sad thing about it, is that the things that are going to be good at it. And it affects the athletes, especially when it comes to contractual matters. Because they think now, I'll just sign this contract, but I don't know what happens in the future. Thing is when something does happen in the future and then you check their contracts. You can see that the contract is super one sided against them. And it goes against the rights and protection. So that's how I see it right now. Hopefully it gets to grow, becomes more mature, evolves into something that we can actually then say, "Okay, we have established sports law practice here in the Philippines." How about you, Tornier, Rambo? Anything to add to that? Yeah, same thing I make, you know, that's why I never had a gut to do it. Imagine if infancy and the later stage, you know, it's just like time for imagination to be put together. And I think, I guess, in the end, like I said, sports is like a micro-possum of society. So not only in sports law, but in general, there's a stigma going to a psychiatrist who is not having problems. Same thing with what happens when there's a problem. One of them is going to be in the gas station or two or three in the gas station. They're going to be free, they're going to be free. But really, because it's a lot of things, I think we will go into the later, because it was a problem, rather than we think about it, it's a lot of problems. So there's something in the air, there's something in the air, I think it's going to get to the stage. But yeah, it's just like they don't put value into that, the consultation before the problem arises. Anyway, that's a lot of problems. Thank you for that, guys. I will expand on your answers later. So, Andy, over to Robbie, taking away Robbie. Thanks very much, Simo. And so I want to discuss the stories around you, and you know, our guests beliefs with regard to sports law. So let me begin with the Tony Mickey. So you have a proud teammate here as well with the Mickey being one of my teammates in the UAP Championship that we won way back. So, Tony Mickey, I love what you said about your goal to uplift Philippine sports law. And more recently, we've seen the importance and the growing relevance of sports law now. And one of the most important loss is the student athletes protection app, which at this point, many student athletes, coaches, parents, even administrators or teachers are still not aware of. So, can you share with us what are some main things we should know about it? And how do we now establish awareness and relevance for this law? Okay, student athlete protection app passed a couple of years ago. Two main goals. Number one is to fix residency rules by a static association, like the UAP, the NCAA. The second one is tries to battle commercialization of student athletes. The do this. It does this by illuminating the benefits and monetary incentives that some student athletes can get from the school. So that's the broad, that's the two broad strokes of the student athlete protection app. So how do you think we can give it? It's not very well known at this point. How do we generate more awareness for this app? What have you been doing in terms of your own practice? Well, for me, when it comes to teaching and when it comes to giving online lectures, I always mention the student athlete protection app. And I always link it to examples of students who move from one school to another in order to show the different residency rules. Well, always use the UAP as an example because it's the most popular static association in the Philippines. So I always say, look, the student athlete protection app is the reason why it will be for us to set this shit one year, even if it's coming from the States. It's the reason why an attenio high school student can immediately go to end you and play there for the vocier and most residency requirements are required. And that's a good way of educating people about it by showing these like UAP stars and show them. showing them the legal side of it, right? Because that's our job, right? To show the legal side of things that seem mundane and not legal in the first place. - Right, I wanna dig in a little bit about what you just said. So you seem to have a certain mindset or approach when it comes to your practice of sports law. So how do you tackle issues that come your way when they do come your way? - The first thing I try to do is just listen, listen to the client, get all the facts that I can, and while I'm getting all the facts, the legal issues start popping in my head because that's how we're trained as lawyers, which we're trained to look at the risks and the issues and what. And the only way that we can do that, and this is what I always sell my students, is to have a good fundamental, to have a good foundation in your law. Because if you have a good foundation in your law, and facts start popping up, you'll get to connect those facts with possible risks and possible legal issues. So that's my main goal, at least that's my main technique and handling cases and handling clients. - I like that. So basically what you're saying is, know the risks and what. - Yeah, I think. - So now closer to home with our field in football. So the PFL or the Philippine Football League, it's a pretty young league, and it has gone through a lot of challenges, right? So in a short history, some clubs have come and gone for one reason or another, but some legal issues, how the league and the clubs do. So in your perspective, what do professional clubs have to consider to avoid folding in the middle of the season or to ensure that they get to deliver their objectives as a professional club? - Oh, well again, back to the fundamentals. When you wanna put up a club, two things, right? You wanna make sure you got your finances, because if you don't have any money, you can't start a club. And if you do start a club, you're just gonna fold up in the middle of the season like we've seen so many clubs here in the Philippines do. And number two, from having the money, it's knowing your legal obligation. It's your legal obligations under contract law. You can understand under the PFL, the PFL has a standard contract. That means if you're a club, you just can't make in banter your own contract. You have to follow the standard contract of the PFL. Aside from contract law, you have to study FIFA regulations, because the PFL is under the, it's under PFL, it's under FIFA, and FIFA has rules when it comes to professional leagues, such as the granting of license as the clubs. What are some requirements for that? Number one, you have to have money, right? And that's what happened to some of the clubs in the Philippines, which like a couple of months ago, a certain club folded up, what happened to their obligations to the players when it comes to their salaries, right? So already, when you're talking about salaries, you already talking about a legal obligation based on contract law, and based on FIFA regulations, and then you're looking at financial considerations, which again goes back to the point of supporting a club, we have to make sure you have money, right? So there's so many things involved, and so many things to consider. And the thing here in the Philippines is that, okay, you want to have your ass calls, right? Let's say we have a club, we have a lot of money, what are your conditions? But with anything in life, you might get inspired to do something, but if your consistent day-to-day thing is geared towards that thing that motivated you in the first phase, it's just gonna fold down. If you don't have the discipline to push through with that, then wow, well, the discipline involved here in putting up a club is finances and legal considerations. Sadly, we don't see that as much in the Philippines. - Right, so just to reiterate, I like what you said again, so it's about knowing the risks involved and starting an objective, and basically what I heard you say is, try to start first time, right? So basically get the state out of the way to make sure that when you start something, you can see it through, right? So that's what I heard with everything that you said. So I like that, thank you, Attorney Mix. Now for Attorney Rebo, we've had some previous discussions, and I like what you said in our previous discussion, where you said, and this is connected to how you practice your sports law. So this is, you mentioned, you're already getting used to it, before you're getting used to it. So knowing the rules, so can you tell us more about this belief of yours at Attorney Rebo? - Okay, I'll give credit to that. Let's start mine. I think that's Father Jetsamabah during his time. - Yeah, during the graduation. And I think again, make it like the tweet, that's why I saw it. (laughing) So don't say that. But don't get me wrong, I mean, we can reconcile this too. What you said was important, these are rights under Philippine law, that's why you're going to be a student. However, some time there are rules within a sporting context. But sometimes you have to know the spirit behind those rules. And just like in law, you know, you're going to become some just, you should not be sacrificed as the other technicalities. And so it is inside the field, no? We know that sometimes, they lack my life and dark, but in the UAP in particular, you know that there's one school like FIU, yellow and green on uniform. And sometimes they have an issue, yeah, no? But if it's otherwise, my view, this is my personal view, no? If it's otherwise playable, no, man, they come again, they play against USD. USD comes in at yellow, then they're agree. Besides, you know, when you play, you're not able to do the commissioner or the facial deem site, because you know, we know that. We will, we will, if, if, if, don't lawyer up, when you're in a bad mood, we know that. And then, you know about this tier, you know, you're not able to do it. And advocate, you know, you know, this is the arbitration. So, you know, sometimes you have to have a captain, but let's talk. That's our big lead rather than go to the course of law. We don't have to ask for an extension. Not to say. There's a lot of different subjects. There's a lot of different concepts. There's a lot. The set up a victory, the next thing is to make sure the commissioner and the referee are on. There's a lot. So if you go forward, sportsman you'll go ahead. It's hard. There are different sports. There's a lot. I like what you said that Tony. So what I heard from you is that let's focus on the spirit of the game. The intent is to just to play and I agree with you there as a former athlete also everyone here would agree to let's let's just play. You know, and maybe the lowering up can come in afterwards. That's right. So yeah, let's do give a illustration of it. Because I just realized that there's a designated Dao Palasila just to spot the technicalities. Errors in the uniform. The patches. I know, I know, I know, I know, the same thing. The two of us are just three. And then at half time comes to me. I know, I know, the patch is going to be a little bit better. Whatever or misplaced. I mean, come on. I love my hand. Right? That's not what sport. I don't think that's what sport is all about. So, see me again. That's what I'm about. That's all that I want. Right? Tony, it's all about me. It's all about me. And I understand the point of view of the players is we just want to play. You know what I mean? Let's not stop the spirit of the game to execute the game. To play the game. Right? Thank you for that, Attorney Rebel. I think the elephant in the room here is also the issues surrounding USD and Bobo. I'm going to throw it in there. But this question, this question of turns is a no. So, I'm not related. So, the creation of Bobo, it's one of the ways that the sports world is adapting to the pandemic. So, in the context of Philippine sports, how do we properly set up a Bobo? Okay, well, I think to me again, the pioneer has to wrote something about this, the five legal considerations. So, I suggest you read on that. I'm not going to say either, but that's true. Let's do that. You know the rules and know the risk involved. So, let's say, like I said, the rules and you have to know this. But the thing is, you mentioned that Philippine sports, but you know, and when there's sports athletes, but our athletes in the UAEP are student athletes. So, you know, that's what you're doing. And I think this is one of the factors that also make you discuss this, this course, you know, you don't have to know. You don't have to be professional at it for that matter. So, you know, the other consideration is that it's really my personal view, it's like you're going to be able to push, you're not facing the face classes. And yet, we're pushing for a sporting event. Exercise is important. You'll get an exercise training or whatever it is, do it. It's healthy and dancing. Performance activity, what they call it. But the sporting event, after a while, face to face, it's a lot of things. What message do we have from being able to get? I know that the UAEP can be a source of inspiration, but again, no, there is. It's too much risk. Too much of a risk. You know, you just have to emphasize that our athletes are students before they are athletes. Thank you for that, attorney. I really like that answer. On a personal note, I believe that it's also risky that maybe one life affected is one life too many, right? So, yeah, yeah, of course. Because I think this is a parent. It's just that it's struck me. What are the things we have to do? Like, what do you think is important for your entertainment or a gladiator? And when you do what you want, you'll see that you're doing it. This kid or this is someone as a son. I'm professional. I want to add to what attorney said. I totally agree. Because if you allow student athletes to train in a bubble and then you don't have face-to-face classes yet, I think that's the worst kind of sports exceptionalism. Because look, other people will have a school which has a bubble in a province. Would you allow a different organization? like a math organization to do that or like a marketing organization to do it. You probably won't, right? But if you allowed athletes to do that, what do you think the other students, how do you think they're gonna feel and how do you think society will consider this? Right? Because now, the problem is that some students' athletes are being propped up in pedestals only to be brought down at the first mistake that they do. Right? And these are kids, right? These are 21, 22 year old guys. And we all did like weird stuff for year 21, 22. And then the more obvious you might get a good one. [ Laughter ] So those are the things, right? So I always read this book, "The Friday Night Lights." And it says, "A life of a student athlete is very short." And it's like Kamalot, because he's a public-balic-balic-an-man. For the people who always want to go back to it or not really the student athletes, it's the parents, the fans. Because they put all these dreams of like, seriously trying to be the student athlete. And in the end, once the student gets injured or gets sick, well, Ana, they bounce on the student athlete, right? So I think it's dangerous for students to have sports-bubble for amateur student athlete team while the school is closed down. And no face-to-face class are being conducted. Same book you're making with a movie in "The Friday Night Lights." I am based on the book. So it's a very good book. I like it for you because it's a very good idea. But that's true. Again, in the world of the world, the world is the sweetest. Sports-exceptionalism-appet's worst. [ Laughter ] She captured it in one tweet, okay? [ Laughter ] Well said, well said, not already. [ Laughter ] Really, I think it overdue for more questions. Guys, I don't want to speak any more. [ Laughter ] It's interesting, so insightful. I'm like, wow. Yeah. Talking, guys. Keep talking. [ Laughter ] Always nice to be in the room with it, mid-making. Yeah, so fun. Yeah, we do things that love all of you guys. Yeah. It's great. It's great. And I feel for you, ED, with all these, you know, our rules in the UAP or you just want the kids to just play, right? And, you know, we experienced that two seasons ago. And it's a good thing we move forward. And we, you know, we actually fix this, no? Yeah. Okay, so now, you know, I really just want to really talk about, you know, team composition, you know, like working in a team, working in an organization. So I'll start with a first-winter, my name is, you know. You mentioned that having a mix of people who will agree and disagree. Okay, so this means that, say, starting your friend can be someone you hate or you, you know, but there are some performance, you know, I think you can deliver. So really, what is the logic behind this? Why would you rather have a mix of those people? Someone would be like a devil's advocate or, and, and of course, people that will support you as part of your team. So why? I think the fundamental reason why I want other people on my team who don't think like me is the knowledge and the humility that I don't know everything. And as a lawyer, I think you need that because you might think, oh, you're so brilliant, you're so good. But once you talk to another lawyer, he or she will have other issues in mind, right? That you might not be able to spot. And I always go back to the story of Abraham Lincoln, right? So I read this book, "Leadership in turbulent times." Abraham Lincoln at the outset of the Civil War, when he won, decided to get as his cabinet political rivals. Because he knew, number one, that he wasn't as smart as people thought he was. And he knew that he would, uh, at diversity of ideas, would result into good decision-making. Not saying that what his opponents or cabinet members would say, he would actually push through. I mean, it's not what other people would say would not be a decision. He would still consider them, but in the end, it would be still his decision. And he understood that having yes men all around, you will not help because you're going to have a group think. You're going to be thinking in a bubble. You're going to be thinking in an echo chamber, like what we have now in social media. So he really understood that it's time for me to have other people and other opinions talking to me. Because in that way, I'll see the bigger picture. So for me, when I create my team, like, I'm very blessed to be in a law firm with my dad, who has a wealth of experience when it comes to law. So other things or other legal issues that I don't see, he gets to see. And then I'm also blessed with a young associate, who just graduated at the New Law School. And she comes in with a fresh mind, right? And, because, yeah, Rebo knows this, as lawyers get older, we get more, we get more jaded. So we need fresh minds, right? Yeah. So I think that's one of the main considers when I'm trying to build a team. There have been some people that I've tried recruiting into the firm, who I thought would be good for the team. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. But in the end, it's all part of it. The Wagonia Mancettini, Manacacad, Sama. But in the end, I like a diversity of ideas, a diversity of people and a diversity of backgrounds, to help with the decision making. And I really appreciate when people say no. Because it means they can go a different way. I really like that. I like the whole humility, trying to be humble, being put back to the ground. Yeah. Sometimes just like, maybe an example, if you could say, you get chosen to play in the national team. And then you're like, wow, you know, I was chosen to play a national team, I'm part of it. But when you get in there, you're with a bunch of different guys in different personalities. So I really love you or hate you. Yeah. I love you. And make sure that you're put in your place, right? And she's like that. And I also like the fact that you are open to listening to the young people. Yeah, I love it. You know, I said to you, the experiences that you've had, or that you've had, you know, being able to say that, you know, generation some change, that, you know, the generation now is different. Just like you eat, you know, you know, you mentioned, you know, word of mouth, you know, creating the buzz. I still use that up to day, up to no, but, but now, it's really about social media. Yeah. So I were open to all these things. Same, you know, same with all these, for all our social media, for tees and how to get it done. And, you know, and we're all open to this. And I think, you know, it's something that's, our viewers are really more interested to, to absorb, you know, and a good advice for you, for when they get out of there. Now for you attorney, Edie, of course, you are the Edie of the UAP. And you are the full on representative, you know, of the owners and the board of directors. And of course, you all know that these board of directors have all different personalities. They put their own agenda. And there's really a lot of pressure right there. You know, in fact, if we were to compare it, you know, let's see, with the PBA, you know, with Co-Muili Marshall, you know, who answers to the board. You know, which are, if you notice, three factions, three, four factions, three, four different owners in all these eight teams. My question to you is, how do you manage all this, you know, when an issue comes up, you know, you listen to everyone. Of course, there's pressure right there. And how do you, how are you able to fairly say, okay, take a long, guys? This is what we need to do. And this is what we need to decide. And at the end of the day, I know that it always comes out for the, for the betterment of the league. So how do you do it? Well, I'm first to go to the cash course on the structure of the UAP right now. When the office was created, they had the BOT, the board of trustees. But that was then composed of the athletic directors. Now, you know, the athletic directors and their counterparts, you know, again, board of management directors. These are the people on the ground, know, the, who manage a day-to-day operations. Now comes in the eight presidents of the universities, which is now the, call the BOT, which is the policymaking body. For some, we're in between. So, see how you made the policymaking. And then operations, the BOT, the board of management directors. So, in between is my office, I tried to lay us between the two bodies. And then, for some fall, when you're intimidating, the eight presidents, there are more, what we call, the fixes after their names. The eight candidates, so, the, the, the, the, the heroes of the U.S.A.B.s, doctors, lawyers, etc., etc., may they advise us about that before? When you come inside the room, it seems like you're prepared to go back. To tell you the truth, because then they will know that they're not agents. Then, they will know that they're not agents. And I think that's what worked for me when I was commissioner. So, if you come in there, Sabini Falchio, we come in there and tell them what they want to hear, rather what needs to be said, then you're effectively shut yourself to the foot. So, I guess, you know, Sabini, you know, maybe I have to be that guy. And I'm sure that the lawyer, who was the one who said, I'm not perfect, but I tried to make the reason out sometimes. It's not about how you're doing your own business. It's not important that it's legal, it's legally sound, psychologically satisfying, and intellectually respectable. And even if they don't agree, they're like, "Hey, you're doing good." So, it's not just like, you know, you're not arbitrary, you're just a creature. It's like, "Hey, you're a coward." But people tend to forget that there's no way to go back to school. They forget about that. They want to back them, so I think that's one. Sabini, you know, Dan, nangitay sa'y'l work with them. Apose sa pa, how to make it work. See, TU Epstein, General Manager of the Red Gubs, was responsible for the championship after a century at the end. Also the Red Sucks. And the key is for 20% rule. Sabi nalihat do ng mga busmo. Mga 20% na Ionilangga win. Daki is to find that out and do it for them. So, you nyon. You have to dive into the less glamourous work. Sabi nalihat na sabi nga sabi sa mga tau. I don't know if it's simon, it's in one of my speeches. Bumalikay na suka. Bida eran boy. Diving into the less glamourous work. And you learn that the craft, you gain respect for yourself and invaluable experience. Like si Spolstra. Spolstra is maybe back in the finals. It was a video guy, remember? Because he did this. So, brang ala nalihat na mobsa mga tau. See, P.F. Stin also started behind the Red Gubs. See, lya yun. See, mga nga alam nga mga. I'm a lawyer, I'm an idiot, I'm a Bible distinct. So, piliyagawa sangsi gay. Goa, goa, goa, goa. That's one of my little secrets. Can I add two things to what Rebo said? Sure. I like what Rebo said. It's an official girl coated. She said she was a good girl. I really wanted to get involved in sports law. Why? Because of my background as an athlete. I was a good girl. I was a good girl. I was a good girl. I had good reason college. I learned that when you focus too far ahead, you might miss out on the shiny opportunity right out of the corner of your eye. But you can't miss out on the shiny opportunity. You can't miss out on the shiny opportunity. I learned that when you focus too far ahead, you might miss out on the shiny opportunity. your answer. So, Tori Mikkiy, Tori Rebo, are you both ready for crunch time? Hopefully, let's go. Game. Here we go in a 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, which is, let's first start with everyone's favorite question. Okay, the warm-up question. Nike or Adidas? Nike for Parma, Adidas for Play. Good one. Good one. That's a good one. That's a good one. Tori Rebo, yours. I'm going to post it on IG. Just do it. So, that's the source. Sush love. Man, Sush love. But I'm a brother sports. I would rather go for Adidas, for running and football. I don't play football, but I know Adidas is good football. Okay, interesting. All right, next. Comic books or video games? Comic books. Comics, yeah. All right, comic books. Next. Daredevil or Harvey Spector? Harvey Spector. Yeah, I guess Harvey Spector, I mean, I don't want to get blind. Harvey Spector. You're going to lose your job. Okay. You're going to lose your job if you lose your job. You're going to lose your job because you're going to be a bassist. Exactly. You have to justify. Just try. Thanks, Mickey. Oh my god, you know, I really, I really love this banter. All right, okay, I'm going to let you guys explain whatever you like. Okay, next. Teaching or writing a book? Mm, one answer. One answer. Teaching, I go first teaching. Teaching. Teaching. All right, teaching. Okay, next, let's go transition to some sports related questions. Okay, here we go. And let's go. Nisops or ankle socks? Right. No socks. Nisops or I don't know. I do socks. Okay. Okay. I don't know. All right. No socks. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, next. Cardio or weight training? Weight training for me. Weight training now. All right. Okay, next. The last dance or cobra Kai? Cobra Kai! Last dance. Okay. Just the next. Araneta Coliseum or Mollafasia Arena? Oh my God. Oh my God. That's tough. Oh my God. That's tough. This one. He's up. He's up. No, he's up. I'm here. Up. No. Pretty cute. Pretty cute. I said, I'll go ahead. Araneta for me. Araneta for me. Oh my God. Araneta, okay. Let's see. I'll go with nostalgia. Araneta. I know explanation. Sorry. Araneta. Araneta. Okay. Yeah, that's not okay. Okay. Sorry. Mollafasia. Yeah. Okay, I do apologize for that next. Michael Jordan or the bronze James? Oh, Jordan. I heard that. Jordan. Yeah. Come on, man. Okay, Jordan. All right. All right. The gold number 23. All right, next. Yeah. Yeah. Pauline Lopez or Junat Chouki? Uh, it has a Junat because she's a client. Pauline? Pauline Lopez? All right. Okay. Last question, all right. Kiefer, Aventa or a Lysa Voltais? All right. Oh, come on. Both. Kiefer. Good answer. Good answer, good answer. They're good. Kiefer. They're a pair. So you can't break them. Oh, yeah. He's a kid. Oh, yeah. Okay. Kiefer. All right. Okay. All right. There's a minute. It's not that's heard. Yeah. Yeah. The minute is up. Okay. Ding, ding, ding, ding. All right. So thank you so much. Mickey, English and Torney, Rebel Sugizag. I'd like to know if you have any final messages for our audiences. Thank you again for having us. It was super fun. Getting to talk to Rebo and getting to talk to all of you guys. I learned a lot, right? I love the energy and of the questions. And I love the themes that I mean that people can actually learn things from our discussions. I just want to plug. Nothing to do with sports. I wrote a novel. It's coming out two weeks. I'm not sure when you're going to show this. But it's going to be out probably by October. All right. Pre-ordering starts in September. Late September. It's called Alina. It's a young adult steam punk. Fantasy fiction novel. Nothing to do with law. But I've been writing it ever since. And I hope everyone gets to read it. It's a fun read. All right. Attorney Rebo, your turn. Yeah. Just to like to thank everyone to the UAP fans. You have to just be patient. I'm the biggest sports fan of anybody. [SPEAKING KOREAN] But we have to look at the science and the legal side of things and the moral side of things. So I think Nika said a lot of things about why it's kind of tricky and complicated for the UAP for student athletes. So I'm not sure how to get to know Cadale. And let's be patient. But we will be back. And this like the most thing from this social pass. So hang in there. Hang in there. Definitely. I really look forward to your upcoming book, "A Torney Mickey." And then of course for the UAP season, "A Torney Rebo." So of course, aside to our guest today, our fellow gold diggers also have some final remarks to say. So Simone, Rely Robbie, take it away. Okay, guys. Our fellow gold diggers. Thank you very much for tuning in. And of course to "A Torney Mickey" and "Edie Rebo" for "Guesting Tonight." So very-- I had fun. This is-- there's such a fun episode. And we hope you'll catch us next week. We have a special episode called "The Dugout," where we take a break, call it a mid-season break, where we talk about the past episode, what we did, and what's in store for the future. So again, thank you very much. And I'll see you next Saturday at 8 p.m. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with our guapo at Torney's. And thanks again for joining us teammates. We hope-- I love the heart, I love the hearts. We hope you guys could share it as on Facebook, your thoughts, and what you learned from this episode, and tag the gold diggers page. Or you could simply share our posts or comment on our video uploads on Facebook and YouTube. And we'd love to hear from you guys, so please don't hesitate to slide into our DMs or leave a comment. So thank you very much, Attorney Mickey and Attorney Rehboh. So we really had a really good time. And I want to repeat what Raley just said. Now, we would love just to-- you know, Eve's dropped on a personal conversation between both of you, because it's really informative and really inspiring. So we've heard some really inspiring words and stories tonight. So for that, we're really thankful. And we wish-- our team wishes you the best of luck in all of your respective endeavors. So hey, teammates, thanks for thinking to the gold diggers so far. So again, we always bring it up to our next fashion project, which is pitchNPH. It's a project where we pay attention and help out our fellow sports people who have been displaced by this pandemic. So more details will be coming soon. Just make sure to like and follow our Facebook page for more details. So thank you very much. Once again, now, wrap it up, Carlos. Well, unfortunately, we have to end the show, but don't worry, we'll be back with a bang. Once again, my name is Carlos Pineda, and this is Gold Diggers. Remember to dream, dig in, and win. See you next time on our next episode. [MUSIC PLAYING]