Episode 268: Axon Ads - How to Diversify Beyond Meta and Find New Customers

Thanks for our marketers! Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Anthony, Creative Producer here with some marketers. The last couple of episodes we've been talking a lot about how meta ads are evolving and what it takes is their competitive going into 2026. In this episode, we're expanding that conversation beyond meta. You'll hear from some marketers CEO Molly Pittman along with CEO of our agency Pepp Hoven as they break down a newer ad platform called Axon and why it's quickly becoming a powerful way to diversify your paid traffic and find new customers. They'll walk through how the platform works, which makes it different from meta. And how to start testing it in your own business. But first, here's a quick message from our founder as your fighter stone about why he chooses Omni Send to power his email and SMS marketing. Hey, as we're here with a quick note, you may not know this, but I just bought a new company. And you know what the very first thing I did was get them set up on Omni Send. I migrated them to Omni Send. That's how much I trust that platform to drive email and SMS performance. And you know, it's like Omni Send isn't as well known as some of the other brands out there, but I really believe in what they're doing, not just the product, but the people behind it. Their support team is next level. And the platform gives my brands everything they need to drive real growth. So if you haven't heard about Omni Send for email and SMS, I think you're really going to love them when it comes to comparing them to other things out there. Check them out. They're offering a special deal to smart marketer subscribers. So you can go to smartmarketer.com/omni Send. That's omni.semd smartmarker.com/omni Send. And you can use the coupon code smart to get 50% off your first three months. I don't think you're going to find a better platform that's going to help you get set up and integrated and optimized. So go check them out smartmarketer.com/omni Send. Use the coupon code smart for 50% off your first three months. Thanks for listening. Hello, hello, what's up everybody? Hi, welcome. Hello, hello. We have another episode of the smart marketer show for you. This is with the CEO of our agency, Pep Huffen, who's here from Portugal. We also have Larry here, my Chihuahua. So he's our AI agent for the day. Pep Larry's downloaded all of this information into his brain. So he's ready to answer questions on your behalf. Very good. Back in the day, Larry would sit on my lap when we were living in Amsterdam and when we were sometimes co-working together, I still think back about those good old days. Right. Larry was a little younger than I guess we all were. I think yes. Pep, this is going to be a really fun episode. And this is a topic that we really believe in. Most of you know that we've been running beta ads for over 15 years and it's still our favorite paid traffic platform. And I think every year of my career, I've always hoped for a traffic platform to come on the scene that could be as powerful as meta that would allow us to diversify our paid traffic portfolio. And we finally have that with Axon, also known as app leaven, which is very confusing. I think we're going to mostly use the term Axon here in this presentation, but you might hear app leaven. Those are the same things. But this is a powerful ad platform that all of you should be buying traffic on. And Pep, the amazing CEO of our agency, he was one of the first people to really figure this out and now start to teach it to others. So we're lucky to have Pep here to teach us about Axon ads and hopefully get you guys started on this platform and or help you scale if you're already buying ads through Axon. So Pep, I'll turn it over to you buddy, but I will be here to relay any questions that come through. And Larry will know if you do a good job. So you're going to get a score out of 10 from Larry after this. Depending on how many barks it's that's the score. Yeah, thank you, Molly. You know, I appreciate the introduction. And yeah, obviously excited to be here. So what can you expect from today? What I'm going to give you today is basically a road map to go from what is Axon to being able to launch your first ad using the best practices that we are using in smart marks or agency. But not only that because we work very closely with the team at Apploving as well to be able to understand what is the best way to optimize and set up this platform. And quick preview, it is easier than meta in terms of setup. There's much less complexity, which means that you can go live in out a 60 minutes if you if you do it well. So the goal of it is, that's quite the, yeah, it's really fast. It's really fast. Actually, if you the review process of their ads is sometimes only a few seconds, which is wild. So what they have done is they have tried to create a platform that allows you to run ads with the least friction possible, which also limits, you know, your freedom a bit to what you can and cannot do. But it is really a seamless experience. Now, before I go too far in the needy and greedy of on how to set this up, let's first take a look about what we're going to cover today. So we have a few segments. We have four segments. Numbers don't lie. I'm going to be talking about the platform and the numbers behind the platform. And it might surprise you actually some of these numbers. And then this just in and why Exxon works completely differently from, for example, meta or other platforms, then the action of the month, which means launching your first campaign step by step. Again, you can have your first campaign life in 60 minutes, maybe even faster after creating an account. And then copy this win. We're going to be talking about two brands who actually run at loving ads, axon ads. Sorry, I should say I'm loving, I should say axon. And yeah, who did it? Who do this very successfully? Where does that confusion come from? Let me let me address that. The company is called at loving, but the advertising machine platform is called axon. So that's basically where it comes from. That's like meta and ads manager. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Let's dive in. So today sponsor is Omni Cent. We're very happy to have Omni Cent as a partner. Now many of you guys might might be using different CRMs. Omni Cent is there to power your email and SMS specifically for e-commerce brands. And we have a weekly call because obviously we partner with Omni Cent. We work very closely together with them. And one of the questions that they had, they were like, obviously, like, how can we distinguish ourselves better in the marketplace? And I told them, there's one thing that you guys do that no one else does that is actually never addressed, which is that Omni Cent. Yes, it is a great platform. Yes, it's a great software for email and SMS. But what they do, they have hands-on account managers for their clients. It will actually look in your account and will give strategic guidance on optimization and how to get most out of your email and SMS. So it's not just like a self-serve platform you sign up. And you like, goodbye, you just pay your monthly bill and the bill goes up. As you grow, no, they are actually a hands-on partner in your email and SMS marketing. They think with you, right? So it really is kind of like service and software being combined. And that's something that Omni Cent does that no one else does in the market. So that's why that reason, it's a fantastic reason to check out Omni Cent. You can head over to smartmarkter.com/OmniCent. We have the link as well in the show notes. But just that thing really makes them stand apart and makes it really, really worth it because no one else does that. Perfect. So have you ever heard of X on ads? So let me know in the chat. Yes, drop an A, no, drop a B, or if you're already running X on ads, drop a C. And then, yeah, Molly or Arian, if you can tell me if actually people are already running, if they have heard of it, if they have never heard of it, what's going on? Yes, heard of it. Signed up but haven't launched, PEP? Got it. Got it. So there is some understanding already or some interest at least. So running at low-spent, perfect, perfect, perfect. So we're not completely starting from scratch. So why is Ablovin such a cool company? Well, Ablovin originated being a marketing platform for games. So what they do, they have a billion daily active users worldwide that play games, which is obviously that number is insane. So think about different word games, for example. Think about Sudoku's. People play free games. And these games, obviously, how do they make money by having ads being placed in these games? Now, originally, Ablovin built a system where games were advertising in other games, which is like, you know, like you're playing a game and you're trying to get the user from another game. So it's a bit weird, but they obviously got obviously a pretty big already with that. Now, where they really took office, when they started to use that, that technology and open it up for e-commerce brands because they actually figure out that that's algorithm works really well for e-commerce brands too. And because they have such an incredible big daily active user base, it's actually a platform where you can actually get scale from as well. - Yeah, that's crazy too. Also, I just wanna point out guys, if you're an info SaaS, if you're not e-com, you can still run ads on this platform too. So I just don't want folks to feel like it's only for physical. - Yeah, that's true. That's actually a really good point. I would say that a lot of advertisers are e-commerce, probably just a meta, but plenty of other advertisers are on a beloved that are non-ecom. So that's a really good point. So in the US, you have basically 150 million daily users. And what I like so much about these acts on ads, and we're going to look at a few examples in a bit, is that it's kind of merges social media advertising and cable TV. If you have cable TV ads, so traditional TV ads, to some extent, you have undivided attention, meaning that you can't really scroll through, earth scroll past, I would say. So you really have viewers locked in at that point. Social media ads, not at all, right? They can scroll past. It's like you're in a state where you're going through your timeline super fast, and this kind of merges these two things. And we're going to see a few numbers of how people's interaction with games is actually very different with social media. They're actually in a much happier mood and state when they're playing games, which is actually beneficial for advertisers. So they have an incredible big network of people that play these games, but you probably have never heard of it because it is not like meta, right? They have to Facebook app, they have to Instagram app, they have WhatsApp. This is a platform that lives in all of these games. So people don't really know that this is powered by Exon, but you've probably maybe see someone, actually played these games, these free games, and then hey, an ad pops up, and really good chance that that is an Exon ad, which is powered by AppLovyn. Yeah, and more people play mobile games daily than watch cable and it's growing. It's really growing, and here is the crazy part. The audience is not what you think because the first thing that I heard about this, I was like, "Man, people that play games, you can sell something to them." Because when I heard about this, I was like, you know, like a teenage boy is a play call of Judy on their phone, you know, like in their room or something like that, that's the audience that plays games wrong. It's actually, it's skews towards women, it's not primarily women, but it's skews towards women, actually in their 30s and 40s, which gives it obviously a huge opportunity because in order to sell things, you need to be able to reach people that actually have disposable income. So there's a wide variety of categories that works on Exon, which is really great, which gives it a very fair alternative to meta. And I also just wanna say, like the goal is not necessarily for you to replace meta. The goal is to run advertising on both platforms. That's what you wanna do. You wanna have traffic, diversification. You want to reach people that otherwise you wouldn't be able to reach. And that is what Exon does. So our goal is not even to shift ad dollars from meta to Exon. No, our goal is to maximize meta because it is as powerful as it has ever been. Actually, for us, it's performing better than last year for many of the clients that we work at. So they're building, they're going, and we can run on Exon. So we absolutely want to leverage both. So I just wanna make sure that we're not here to be like, "Nah, meta is not good." No, meta is amazing. And you wanna run on Exon. So the cool thing about Exon, and this is what meta does really well too, is that you actually can go from someone who doesn't know you to conversion within an hour. Because 80% of these conversions they happen within an hour after the click. And this is something that is where Exon is the first one to nail this after meta-hung Google. Because we, well, sometimes on TikTok as well, to be fair, but we don't see this very well on Snapchat. We don't see this very well on Twitter. We don't see this on Pinterest. You might have a super strong in-platform row-ass, but if you're then tracking with third-party tracking, it's like, man, it's all retargeting, or it's like no new customer acquisition. And this platform can actually get you new customer acquisition. But it does work a bit differently, both from a user psychology perspective and from an advertising perspective. So that's what we're going to talk about. So average cost per click is 70 cents, highly dependent in which category, because your CPM is basically set based on the category. But the CTR is very high. You can see 5.2%. And that's a click-through rate. Yeah, but the CPMs are also high, right? So you have high CPMs compared to meta, high click-through rate equals very similar or better cost per clicks. And average incrementality, which basically means that it's driving more sales than reports in the platform. This is a really big difference from meta. How attributions shows up in the platform? And this is really important for you. If you're starting out, if you want to test this, and you're like, I see a 1.2 row S in X on, but my meta is a 2X row S, man, I'm going to turn it off. No wrong. Because meta automatically attributes something that you call a view-through attribution, which means that if you see an ad, you don't click on it. You see it, and you buy within 24 hours, that revenue gets attribute to the ad. And you could say a lot about that if that's good or bad, but that's just how meta really works by default. Exam does not do that. There are no view-through attributions. So only attribution works if someone clicks, not if they get served in ads, but if they click. So the attribution is much more conservative, which mean that we'll also have to be like, OK, like if I get maybe a 2X in meta, then maybe I'm happy with a 1.2, 1.3 in X on. Because if you're using third-party tracking, such as North Beams, such a triple-will, whatever doesn't really matter, what we see in meta, that let's say you see a 2X row S in the ads manager, maybe you see like a 1.5 new customer row S in triple-will. So it's generally lower in third-party tracking attribution. Exam, all the way around. We see generally a 20% higher row S in a third-party tracking attribution than what the platform reports. This is so, so important. Also, if you're not using any third-party tracking, that you're like, OK, if I want to have a 1.5 row S, I'll be very happy with a 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 in X on. That's really important. Because at the end, all attribution is broken. Doesn't even matter which type of attribution you use. We have to make sure that we're just making that we understand the attribution models from the platforms, from the third-party tracking attribution tools, and make sure that they were directly correct. And that we're tracking like our profitability and stuff, which we're not going to talk about. That's basically how you want to approach this. Second and two, this just in. So three things. Step makes X on completely different. So here, the ads, it actually is not one ad. It has three steps to it. So first of all, you have a video. This is really different from that one. Because a meta we still run a lot of statics. On X on, you basically only have video ads. And the video ads have to be shorter than 60 seconds. They have to be shorter than 60 seconds. And the sweet spot is like 30 to 40 seconds. But what you want to do is obviously want to have a wide variety of videos. It's the same thing with meta. You want to have your UGC videos. You want to have your unboxing. You want to have your before and after. She just want to have a broad creative portfolio. I would say it's a sale on X on, but we just have videos. And a lot of brands that start on X on what they'll do, they'll just take their best performing videos from meta, which is a great way to start. And make sure that they're suited for X on. So what do you have to do for X on? So shorter than 60 seconds, you want to have-- absolutely, you want to have captions on there. Because a lot of people play games on mute. And you just want to make sure that it's pretty snappy. It's pretty snappy. And we are releasing. Smart Markter is releasing a free master class. A free X on master class that we're doing together, actually, with AppLovIn. So we'll email you guys once that's out because that's going to be a deep dive. It's going to be probably a four to five hour free master class on X on where Ezra and myself are teaching X on from anything related to video formats, what's working, pages, setting up, scaling. So that is coming. So that's very exciting. So much more about the creative there. And BJ said shorter than 60. So would you say 15 to 30 seconds? Yeah, like 30 to 40 seconds would be identical here. Exactly. Yeah, like 30 to 40 seconds is ideal. But if you have a lot of videos, which is this thing will eat videos every single day. You need a lot of creative velocity for this thing. So if you have some 15, most of them the 30 to 40, that is ideal. So, and we're going to look at an example, by the way, of how those videos actually come up, because like, all of them are actually unskippable. So this is where I come back to the example of TV ads. They're not skippable, right? But obviously, people are on their phone. So they're unskippable. That's the first part. The second part is we call this an interactive, which is, you can see it as a static ad, you can see it as a mini landing page. It's basically the second opportunity to communicate your value, your transformation, because that's what we want to do. We really want to approach this as a meta-static. We want to communicate transformation, because each of you guys, if you're selling a product, you're selling a server, you bring transformation in your customer's life. And this moment for the interactive is a great moment to actually communicate that, and use that as a state for, and we actually build a tool that we'll continue to support you. I'll get back to that in a bit. Last screen is the third screen, and there are a few options for that. So if you guys are familiar with DPA, so Dynamic Product Ads, which is where you connect your catalog to the advertising platform, it will basically show the products that you're most likely to buy in a nutshell. If you're not an e-commerce brand, or you're turning this off, it will show your brand assets, which is your logo, a very brief description of your brand, and a button. And you can use it without. But point being, there are three steps in the customer journey to get off the platform. Okay? So it's video, people consume a significant amount of video, you have the moment of the interactive to communicate value, and then you have your third screen, which is a DPA also, or a DOA, which is Dynamic Offer Ads. Watch the master class, if you want to know more about Dynamic Offer Ads, we don't have too much time. And then if you turn these things off, you just have your brand assets, and only then you click, and then you go to the Product Page, the Sales Page, the Optin Page, whatever it may be. And this is so cool, it is 35 seconds of undivided attention. That's wild. Yeah, exactly, because like, what's the average watch time of a social media at like 2.54 seconds? I don't know, like certainly not 35. So it gives us a lot of time to communicate. And this is an example of an ad. So let me see if I can get this to work. So there are a few ways that ads appear in levels of games, or in exchange of rewards. Right? So this is an example. Look at the captions. We're just going to go through it. So obviously, this is a clothing. 30 seconds in, boom, that was the ad. First part, second part, interactive. They can skip through if they want. Third part, DPA. Now you can see, you can see the button, right below shop now. So they can click earlier, but this is the customer journey that customers are taking through on the platform. Right? So a few things that send out, it is fairly high paced. This was a bit over 30 seconds. We saw the captions above the button, interactive, communicate value, DPA, boom, we go to the page. Awesome. And someone said, I needed this e-commerce example. I only remember seeing games. So most of the people that are going to see these ads guys are playing games, but any type of business, unless you're a great area selling THC or telehealth or a market that's not allowed on a platform like this, anyone can run these ads. And then yes, captions are definitely recommended. A lot of people are on the subway or they're in the doctor's office playing a game. So they're muted. So you definitely want to make sure you have those captions. Can you run the ad again one more time, Pat, please? Yes, absolutely. And you all think about this too, Pat, before you play this, I want you to think about the mindset of someone who is playing a game versus someone who is scrolling through social media, not necessarily from the obvious reason of, you know, they're scrolling. So you're not forced to watch a video. That's a cool part of this. But someone is locked into this game, Pat, right? Like their mind, their endorphins, like their brain, they are playing a game. That is a very sticky activity, right? That's going to have higher screen time than something like just scrolling through Facebook and seeing if there's anything random that would be interesting. So I want you guys to think about that too from a psychology standpoint. It's not just that the video is forced and unskippable. The person wants to sit there and watch through because they want to continue to play the game. Their brain wants to continue to play that game. Yeah, all right, Pat, just wanted to add that. You can share your screen again. Perfect. I've been on the hunt for the perfect high-quality, long-sleeved teeth. This little thing, Quincy, is my favorite wardrobe line. And, Pat, someone said, can you explain the interactive part of the clothing? What makes it interactive? I want it. You don't want it. Okay, pause. This is the interactive. And the interactive, what makes it interactive? It's because you have the possibility for it to move. So like a gif, a gif, I'm not sure what the exact way to say it is, but just like a moving, like a short video. You don't have to do that because aesthetic in itself works as well. So you have the option. But that's why they call it interactive, because it can move. Now, what actually we found is that the biggest obstacle for a lot of these advertisers, which includes ourselves, actually, is not even the video, getting the video, but it's like, what do I do with the interactive? So that's actually one of the reasons. So this example of a few interactive that we actually run and use for our clients. So what we really try to do is take this as an opportunity to communicate transformation. These are the meta, like what meta, aesthetic as it's work, the ones that communicate transformation. It's not just like, you know, like your product with a wide background or whatever similar way of advertising as for services, that's not the point. We're communicating transformation. And so these are another few examples of that. So we created Thumbstop, which is, you can head over to use Thumbstop.ai, which basically is an AI creative tool that will help you create these interactive. Because these interactives are just 9x16. You upload your brand URL, you upload your product URL, you upload your customer avatar, it will understand that. And you can generate these interactives also in just a few minutes. So yeah, if you're interested in that, we use it in the agency, which I think is the best way to at least for us say that we think it's good enough. We create the interactive for X on using Thumbstop. So yeah, on use Thumbstop.ai, we actually just launched it a few weeks ago. So we have a launch offer going right now. So you can use the code Smart50 to get 50% off your first three months. So yeah, if you feel that the interactives are something that you might be struggling with and a tool like Thumbstop would be as great because you can communicate transformation very fast or use Kenva, right? That's possible too. If you want to take the time to do that yourself too. Now Molly already said something really interesting. And that's actually something that has to do with the user psychology because people's mind state, their mindset, their overall feeling of well being is pretty low when they're actually going through social media because social media platforms, they want to keep you on the platform as long as possible. What do they need for that? They need to pull you in. What pull show in generally thinks that trigger you. What triggers you? Very often things that are negative or that cause negative emotions. For example, perfect influencer pictures that you're like, "Oh man, I wish I could be like that." It's a negative emotion, right? It doesn't help you, but it pulls you in. Images and videos of news, very often negative news, right? It pulls you in. That's why on social media, the emotional state is often very negative. Only 27% of users feel relaxed when scrolling social media. And I would actually say that's pretty accurate for myself that like only one out of four times I use it, it's actually like in a relaxed state. But for mobile gaming, 59% feels relaxed, right? Because there's much more intent and focus to it. And then actually an ad becomes a welcome break versus the negativity and they're like, "Oh, not our ads," which makes it a very different advertising experience. The value exchange is also much more transparent because users understand that these ads they either show up in between. levels, which is just a natural moment for an ad like that to show up either in between levels or they can earn points by watching an ad. Right? So those are basically the two ways that these ads show up. So there's a very natural and transparent value exchange in these in these gaming apps. Now the AI model, the AI model, everyone thinks like, ah, acts on new advertising platforms. Super cool. We're going to try it. Well, actually, it's not a new advertising platform. It's been around for a very long time, but it was only open to games. Right? It was only games advertising in games. So they were able to develop an AI model that works very similar to TikTok's algorithm, which means that it will serve you not based on your profile data like meta, but what you interact with. Right? So like, if you would create a fresh TikTok account, what will happen is you'll get served a wide variety of contents. And the algorithm would probably learn within 20 to 48 hours what you interact with most. For example, I bet that Molly interacts a lot with dog videos. So she would basically see a lot of dog videos and picked up, right? I don't think Molly actually has to take take talk, but no, I don't. I have to, I have enough distraction, PEP. So I'd limit my, my social choices. But yeah, it would be all dog videos like my meta feed. Yeah. So those behavioral signals, that is how acts on the sites, which ads it will show the user. Right? So it's based on interaction versus interest and profile data and so on, which is how how meta works. Okay. So quick check in. So what difference compared to meta makes you at least like, hey, this is exciting, this is school. This is the 35 seconds of unskippable attention. It's the fact that we're going after relaxed users. Or is it that AI model that I just talked about just dropped in the chat. I'm interesting to hear. Mine's a mix of A and B, PEP. Yeah. Get unskippable is just that's a marketer's dream or a relaxed user is a plus. I mean, the AI is cool, of course. And that will always continue to improve. But like when I'm looking at how this compares to other channels, it's really that A, B next together for me. I agree. And I would actually even add an option D, which is that you have these, it's like a mini customer journey in an ad. So you have like a video, then you can communicate through an interactive or aesthetic. And then you have a third screen. So there are so many different touch points that that you can use. Yeah. I love the mix. Like the ad experience is unlike anything else. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Second and three action of the month. So getting your first axon campaign live step by step. And again, I promise you that you could get this live within 60 seconds. Well, that would be crazy. 60 minutes. One day. I think some, I think some people like you can, if you go through it, you could actually really do it in 30 minutes. I actually think that's very much possible. So there are a few things, right? So if you account set up, you're billing, you're catalog, you're running. I'm going to go through this fairly fast because it's not the most exciting for you guys. But it's important to set that foundation right so that we can start running. Now, axon has its own pixel, just like you have the meta pixel, you also have the axon pixel. If you're on Shopify, it's super easy because there is an axon app. You can create a pixel in your account when you sign up. It's very easy to install the axon app and basically have the axon pixel live. Now, just like you have a chrome plug in for meta, there's also a chrome plug in for the axon pixel. So you can check whether it's actually working or not. So I would highly recommend that. If you are not on Shopify, no problem at all. You can do that through Google Tag Manager. So Google Tag Manager, it's the same way or very similar I would say, as it is set up through and like the meta pixel through Google Tag Manager, that's then another way to do it. Now, there's a third category of people that are on Shopify headless, which means that you are using the Shopify checkout, but you have a custom website. In that case, you need to use a combination where you install the axon pixel through the Shopify app, but also through Google Tag Manager. But making sure that your pixel setup correct, they have a really cool interface that will show, here's an example. So here, for example, we have the overview of the pixel in the events. Now, in the ideal scenario, everything is all working. If you're just using Shopify, it should be fairly easy. But if it's not, then you can see very clearly what's going on. So we see the events, few items, page view, add the cart purchase, begin checkout, few cart, add payment info, remove cart, and so on. So this is a fairly easy way to do this and it's pretty easy to get going. Then we already talked about the pixel setup details, choosing your campaign. So the campaign types are different from meta, but it's also easier. So with meta, there are three levels. You have a campaign level, you have an ad set level and you have an ad level. So there are three levels. With axon, you only have two levels. You have a campaign level and you have something that we call a creative set level, which is kind of the ads and the ads set squished in one cold creative set. That's what it is. It's not too complicated. Now, when you create a campaign, you can choose between a row S optimization and a cost per purchase optimization. Now, row S obviously sends for return on ad spend, the CPP sends for cost per purchase. So basically what you're saying is for row S, I want to maximize the revenue for every dollar spent for CPP. You say, I want to have to do the lowest cost per acquisition. Now, the good thing is that of all of these recommendations, I'm going to advise for you to test the other one as well. So you can't really go wrong too much, but here are like the high level guidelines. If you have a big product catalog, meaning that you also have a lot of different price points. Let's say you have products that are $50, upload products that are $250. If you're advertising those, then you should start with row S because let's say you want to have a 1.5 row S, but some products again are 50, other are 250. You can set a row S goal, but a cost per purchase goal, you can't. Because if you set a 50 cost per purchase goal, well, that might be fine for products at $100 or $75, but you're willing to spend more than $50 to acquire a customer that spends $250. So you can set a cost per purchase goal then. So yeah, then we would recommend you to start with row S. Now, if you only have a few products, and the price points are fairly similar, let's say you have a supplement brand with like 3 to 10 skews or something like that, a cost per purchase goal, sorry, yeah, cost per purchase optimization, might be great because you're like, hey, listen, I know that my average order value is $60. I want to hit $50 cost per purchase because I also know that people are going to come back three times on average in the first 12 months, that's when you start with cost per purchase. Now, before we continue with prospecting versus universal question that I get a lot is like, how do you set your goal? And we're going to come back to this a bit later as well, but you have to, when you're building your acts on the campaign, you have to set a row S goal or a cost per purchase goal. And what I would say is don't try to be too aggressive. So if your row S goal is a 2x, don't say, oh man, I'm going to see if they can get me a 3x, I'm going to put a, you do it in percentages. So you're going to do a 300 percent. Don't do that because you're limiting the algorithm to actually get data. My recommendation would be be a bit looser. So if you want to have a 2x return on that spent, set it at 150. So there's 150 percent. So a 1.5 row S. So first of all, you give the algorithm a bit more space to breathe and find your customers. The second thing is something I've said earlier is that the reporting is very conservative. So if the reporting is very conservative, then 150 might actually be for your backend a 2x row S. If that makes sense. The second thing that you have to choose is whether you're going to go for prospecting or universal. They actually introduced a third campaign last week, which is very recently, which is called discovery. For now, let's just focus on prospecting a universal. So I bet we know what that is. Yeah. So it in nutshell, prospecting, you're going after new customers, universal, you're saying we can go after any type of customer, whether they're new or existing. When you're starting out and your brand is on their 50 million a year, which is for most of people that watch this show, I would just go with universal because it's not that you have like hundreds of thousands of existing customers. Therefore, if we just give the algorithm space to actually get data, that is more valuable and trying to restrict it. And what we have seen for our agency clients as well is that actually universal still gets us a very good new customer row S. So it's It's not that it's just gonna go after new customers. Now, if you launch, and let's say you're launching with your row S goal, 150%, just go for universal so that you actually give the algorithm space to breathe in, you'll probably find that your new customer row S is still pretty strong. - Hey, Pepp, I'm sure the goals that you set here to obviously are gonna decide where you fall in the auction. So that's why we don't wanna be too aggressive guys 'cause it's gonna limit the amount of traffic we get. - Yeah, it's just, if it's not realistic, then it's like there's just a very low chance that this is actually just gonna do. - No. - Pepp, you look like a coder in his mom's basement right now with a stop. (laughing) - So the next thing that we have to decide upon is like to optimize a new window. So are we optimizing for a day zero versus a day seven optimization? And actually this is very similar as with meta, by the way. So with meta you as well have the possibility to actually change to one day click versus seven day click. Now most people advertise on the default settings for meta which is seven day click, one day view. But you could change it if you want. The thing with Exxon is that they just make it more clear that you actually have a decision to make because you have to actively click either day zero or day seven. Now how do you make that decision? I would say listen, if your average order value is under $150 start with day zero. What that means is that you're going after people that convert within 24 hours after the click, right? So people click, they have 24 hours to convert. Day seven obviously they have a seven day window to convert. So Exxon will actually try to find people that are going to convert in a seven day optimization window which also means that you're going to have to wait eight days before day one has mature data, right? Because if someone clicks on day three for example that takes another seven days. So we're like then in day 10 of advertising for that actually potential conversion to show up. So I would say start with day zero if you're like below $150 average order value. But again as well if you get going just test day seven as well just like you want to test universal and prospecting just like you want to test Browess and CPP. These are like guidelines to get you started. But after that you always want to test the other one as well. So let's continue to step five budget and goals. So question then becomes it's like okay. I have to set up how much should I start with? Well there are a few ways to approach this. The first way is like hey what is like the ideal scenario? What's like the ideal recommendation? And then the other way to approach is like what is actually realistic? So the ideal scenario is a 10X average CPA. So if your average CPA is going to be $50 you can you recommend it to start with $500 per day. Now if you're like hey buddy like that makes me very uncomfortable. I'm not going to spend $500 and per day and just let it run and see what happens. Hey that's very fair. That's probably how a lot of people will think about this. So you should start with a budget that you feel comfortable with. And then also just having the realization that it might take a while for data and results to come in. Now what is really important though is like it's the concept of data maturity. It's like the concept that if you are optimizing for day seven that it actually takes at least eight days for the first people to have mature data and it takes 14 days for the full first cohort to have mature data. So if you launch on a day seven optimization it will take a while for the data to mature. If you're going for day zero then you at least want to give it two days to run to see what type of result you can get. And you can look at click data, you can look at obviously row as numbers and things like that. But you do want to give it a bit of time. Yeah so setting these goals, it just works different because many of you that you'll just probably just advertise setting highest volume. Right so just like the highest amount of conversions whether it's leads or purchases, whatever it is that you're advertising on. This is slightly different because you're the, if you use bitcaps for example with meta, if they are too aggressive and meta cannot hit your goals it will actually throttle spend. So that your full daily spend won't be spent. With axon they're gonna spend your full daily spend. So just add up about that. It's not that if you set a very aggressive goal that it won't spend unless it's hitting that goal. No, like it's gonna spend. So that's just really important. It's also important again something I've said before is like you don't want to be too conservative with your targets. So because of the whole attribution thing that we've talked about so you want to be, you want to set your goals a bit more loose that you would wanna actually see in the advertising platform. Okay so we've talked about these are all settings on the campaign level. Axon is not just for the US by the way. You can advertise pretty much all over the world except Western Europe right now because of privacy regulations. But you can advertise it now straight away as well. You can advertise it in Canada as well. So there are a lot of different countries where you can actually run these ads. So we talked about the campaign right. We talked about the user psychology. We talked about the different types of creative and the customer journey. Now the next level of this is like you have set up your campaign is setting up your creative set. Because your creative set is like it's like if you are familiar with Matt, it's like where you bundle your ad sets and you bundle that together, you squish them together. Basically what you do here, you upload your videos, you upload your interactive, you have the URL as well. It's basically all there and you have a very nice preview on how you can see what your actual ads will look like. I'll show you in a bit real quick how you set up the campaign and the actual axon at its manager. All right so how do you set this up? Right so you build the campaign. How do you structure this? How do you decide to do this? Let's say you have 20 products that you sell. Generally you know that only like one, two, three or four do well with advertising. All of the other products are great for returning customer revenue but they're probably only a few that are really suitable for new customer acquisition. On axon, even though we do see very often what works on meta can work on axon as well. It's not always the case because user psychology is different. The type of user is different. So what you want to do is you want to grab everything that you have, your videos, your landing pages, your sales pages, things that you know that works for ads, even if it's your homepage. And you want to start your first campaign, squishing it all together. And you can basically categorize it in your creative set. So for example, you're going to start with a row as campaign. You're going to do universal day zero in the United States. And what you're going to do is you're going to test your three winning front end offers that you know that could work for ads. Right. And your creative sets, just like ad sets, what you're going to do is you're just going to say, okay, product one is going to go in creative sets one. In creative sets one, all of the ads are going to my number one sales page and all of the corresponding creative as well. Creative set two is going to your second best sales page for your other advertising platforms. And we're going to do the same thing, for example, for creative sets three. You want to add as much creative as you have. Obviously, it has to be nine by 16 videos. It has to be under 60 seconds. You want to have all of these interactive and stuff built. But that's basically how you want to start off. Because when you're starting with X on you don't know what you don't know. And it might actually be surprising what will work on X on. So you want to take every front end offer that you could potentially that could potentially work and just put it in your like in your campaign. And you just want to give the algorithm the freedom to figure it out. Right. And that's really what we want to do. Now, let's say you are you're launching your launch at $200 today, whatever it is. And you actually are getting some success. And for example, product two actually converts best on X on product one does best on meta product two works best best on X on that would by the way, be the best case scenario that you're hitting your benchmarks with a different front end offer. And you can acquire new customers that you otherwise wouldn't have reached with meta. Okay, amazing. What can you do then? Well, okay, we're now going to build a campaign for just product two. So you're going to build a new campaign in X on just for product two. And now, for example, how another way to categorize creative sets is for example per creator. Let's say you work with three creators and they all constantly create creators for you. Well, creative set one is going to be creator one. Creative set two is going to be creator to creative set three is going to be create creator three. So there are a lot of ways to categorize these creative sets. You can also say, hey, listen, dude, I don't have that much. I have one core front end offer that does very well. I have some creatives for that. That's how I'm going to start. Great. That's how you can start as well. Set up your campaign, one creative set, you upload all of the creatives you have. You can also vertically scale on X-down right, so you can, if something is working, you can increase your budget. Generally, we recommend to increase your budget with 20 to 30% every two days if the results hold. So let's say you're starting at $200 a day, you let it run for your first campaign, just let it run for seven days, even if it's working, don't touch it. You let it run and then you can slowly start ramping up, spend. So vertical scale is possible too. Creating new campaigns is horizontal scale. Increasing budget is vertical scale. So real quick, before I dive into the actual building of an X on the campaign, which I will absolutely show you, is on the next slide again, if you want to create these interactives, which are just nine by 16, try to use Thumbs Up for that. So use ThumbsUp.ai, use code Smart50 for your first 50% off and give it a spin. Give it a try. If you can create some good creatives with that. If you do this, I want to give you a fair warning that please test at least three to four at concepts, because we've had a few people, and this is like, we need to do a better job of educating in the platform, but we've had a few people that they generate one campaign with Thumbs Up, and they're like, "Ah, the output's not great." I'm like, "Yes, and try to use a few different ad concepts, and then I can pretty much guarantee you that if you do not get an ad that you like, or an interactive that you like, that will give you a refund." So you can just write support, but give it a try. It also, by the way, is used for metastatic ads. We use it a lot for metastatic ads as well, so it does both. All right, so curious. Next slide. What's your biggest hesitation about trying a new ad platform? Is it budget? Is it the creative volume? Because you need all of these videos, and videos are not. Not everyone has a good process to get the consistent stream of video. It's attribution. I don't trust tracking. Or are you like, "I'm in, I just need steps to go build this." Yeah, for us, I feel like it's been B. Just do we have the amount of creative? I was like, "Bee, Bee, and B." Yeah, I mean, especially with the creative volume needed on meta nowadays, it just feels like a lot, buddy. Yeah, it does feel like a lot, and that's also something that we're going to try to solve with Thumbs up, because Axel actually does really well with variations of existing creative. Sure, how can you use AI to create AI ads? I guess we all know the AI UGC creator, which I think is the worst way actually to use AI, but AI can also help you to create variations in just different cool ways. That's on the roadmap for Thumbs up as well, because all of these platforms, not just Axel, just like creative is like name of the game, so I totally understand that. Okay, next slide, real quick, something that throws a lot of people off is UTC timing, because Axel budget and the algorithm resets daily at midnight UTC. So what that means is that launch new campaigns after the UTC reset, because otherwise it can spend your daily budget in the timeframe basically before. So if you launch at 10 PM UTC, then it can spend your daily budget in that two hours. You don't want that. So UTC reset is 4 PM Pacific 7 PM Eastern, which is really important. So if you're launching something new, either do it in the morning or do it basically like the next day, but don't do it in your afternoon or early evening. If you want to scale budget, do that before 1 PM Pacific, do it before 1 PM Pacific, which is 4 PM ESD. If you want to decrease budget, you can do it immediately. That's not a problem at all, but the UTC timing thing is also how the billing works, how the algorithm resets. Yeah, it's just a specific thing to Axel, which is good to know. So yeah, if you want to try Axel, I think it's actually pretty cool because you can sign up for Axel. And if you spend $5,000 in the first 60 days, so spread out over two months, they'll match that. So they'll give you $5,000 off at credits. So if you spend $5,000 in the first 60 days, they'll match that. So you'll basically like, can double your ad spent a test in those first 60 days. And I think we have a link for them in the show show notes, but it's smartmarkthew.com, four slides Axel. If you go there, you sign up through that link. Yeah, they'll actually match you the credits, which I think it's a nice way to start testing with this platform. Before we actually let's wait till my electricity is back on, before I'll walk you through the Axel Nets manager. What is really cool is the next segment, which is copy this win because obviously we just want to make sure that you guys actually believe that this works for brands. Now, it is not some brands will go on meta and they'll take off. Right? It doesn't always happen. But just the biggest challenge for many of you with Axel is just the creative that it needs. So that is just something that's just that's reality for it. But it can work really well because case study one is a resistant leggings brand that we work with. It's actually one of our agency clients and we were able to skill their Axel spends from, you know, we started out just testing something that 300 a day to 3000 a day in about four weeks at a new customer OS that is as good as meta. And that's our objective, right? Can we find more new customers that are not on meta because that is, yeah, it's not that we again, that we want to take budget away from meta. We want to find people that we, otherwise, wouldn't be able to find through meta. And again, the really cool thing is that like, there were all net new customers, well, not all like 90% were actually new customers. So this platform can drive new customers, which is the most important. We have a brand actually in our mastermind, Mendertable, our hormone wellness brand for women over 50. They went from 300 a day to over 8,000 a day. And I think they did it in about 60 days. So in two months, and again, like over 90% new customers. So we do manage the Axel nets after resistant lagging with brands. We don't manage that the Axel nets for off the hormone wellness brand. But it actually shows that it can work and it can get new customers and it can skill really fast too. So why these results make sense? Well, first of all, it's obviously like we have this specific avatar that is on that platform with a high disposable income, which is fantastic. We have real attention because we have undivided attention, which we do not have on any other platform. Obviously, the AI works because otherwise, it wouldn't find us people that actually convert and buy. And yeah, it is a fairly new platform. So there is just last competition, which means that there are probably fewer competitors in whatever category you are. That's just the name of the game. If you're earlier with platforms, you have fewer competitors. If a customer is an interesting skincare, they'll probably get thousands of skincare ads from different brands. If you are in a very specific niche, there only might be one, two or three advertisers on Axel. But obviously, it's growing fast. So after seeing these results, what is your first move? Are you ready to sign up and test it out? Are you going to look at your creative? Are you going to learn more? Because again, like we have this free masterclass that is going to come probably at the end of next month, four to five hours, Ezra breaking down, myself breaking down, Axel in full detail, which is very exciting. And if you're already running it, obviously share in the chat. And yeah, again, if you want to get started with this platform with just a nice financial incentive, we have there's that $5,000 at credit match, which is obviously it's a really nice way to get started. All right. So far, are there any questions because this is a lot of information. Ta-da, then there was light. There was a lot of information and I might have missed something that you're like, hey, you know, this really stands out to me. I have one specific question. So I'm happy to answer any of these questions right now. Yeah, perhaps someone said, can I limit to a certain area of my catalog where I have products similarly priced? So could you limit your catalog or how would that work? Yes. Exactly. Yeah, so you can absolutely do that. You can create segments in your catalog, right? So for example, if you sell t-shirts, you sell leggings and you sell sweaters, you can create a segment for t-shirts for leggings and for sweaters. And you can select that segment when you're setting up your campaign. Yeah. And guys, if you want to sign up for Axel, and get our awesome credit, it's smartarketer.com/axon. So once you spend 5K, you get 5K in credit, correct? But. - Exactly, so it's important, it's not that they're gonna give you 5K to spend. You have to spend 5,000 of obviously your own money in 60 days, right? And what that happens is that automatically, you'll get the credit applied in your account. - Amazing. If your AOV is under 150, how would you go about this? - Yeah, great question. So why don't we pull up the Action Ads Manager real quick? And with that question, I'll show you what I would do. - Hey Paul, let me know if I've missed any questions, buddy or area, and I think we've answered most of these. - I'm gonna switch. Stores real quick. - While that is loading, it's like, okay, average order value under 150 dollars. There are a few questions that we have to ask ourselves. First off, okay, like what are we going to start with? Or we're gonna start with a row-ass goal, or we're going to start with a CPP goal. Again, like if you have a wide variety of products, a very wide variety of price points, then a row-ass is the first place to start. If all of your products are very similarly priced, and I would start with a CPP goal, so cost per purchase. Then the next question, I don't know why it's loading very slowly for me today. Most things that can technically go wrong are going wrong today, which is so lovely. - Okay, buddy, you're handling it well. - Guys, as you know that when Molly travels, she always get like, not always, but very often, they mess up her ticket. For some reason, Molly always gets like a ticket. - I get the worst luck. I think it's flying in an out of Kentucky. - Now you have the tech-bad luck, but. - Yeah, I guess that's true. All right, it's not loading for me. It's to be honest, it's probably because I'm on my hotspot to like circumvent my electricity issues in my neighborhoods, but yeah, so. Cost per purchase, if you have $150 AOV, let's say you wanna have a 2X row, as I would set, if it's $150, I would probably set like, you know, $100 cost per purchase as the objective. I would start with universal, right? So I don't really want to restrict first campaign. I want to give the algorithm the freedom to find whoever. So universal $100 cost per purchase, that's basically how I would set it up. And then if you have a specific landing page that's working well, you would choose that to basically start and with your corresponding creative. Like that's genuinely like how I would set it up, try to use if you have some UDC or your best performance meta videos, start with that, generate some interactive, either do it yourself or use thumbs up, I use thumbs up, like that's the thing, like if we do this for our clients, I'll just use our own tool for it thumbs up because it's so easy and you can generate like a couple of variations pretty fast. And then just run it. I would probably optimize for a day zero optimization window to start with and just see how it does. That's how it would get started. Yeah, and give it at least a few days of data. - Yes, you do want to give it a few days of data exactly. So it loaded, so let me just walk you through real quick what this looks like. And we're going to hope that the marketing gods allow me to have electricity for these few minutes. So you create a campaign, right? So you can name it whatever you want. So this is where you enable DPAs or not enable it. So you have your catalog, which will be automatically connected with Shopify and this is your item set, right? So this is where you can choose all variants or the categories, so the t-shirts or the leggings, right? So in this case, I already have actually a category which is called all leggings and you can create this in the catalog section, right? But this is where you can select it. Destination URL. So where are my ads going? You can change this over right this on the creative set level. Because if you want to test three different landing pages then you could actually create, you could overwrite this on the creative set. So the creative set one is going to landing page two. Creative set two is going to landing page two. Creative set three is going to landing page three. Then you're tracking parameters. If you use third-party tracking set or triple wheel, you can actually, so let's say I'm going to say, I'm going to change this. You can have measurement, partner parameters because you need to set up your UTM parameters correctly. They have automatically set this up for you. So you can select, let's say we're using triple wheel, we select triple wheel, we say confirm. So our UTM parameters are set. This is something that you have to automatically be permitted targeting. Again, all over the world except Western Europe, basically. So let's say we're just going after the US right now, optimization. So what did we say, cost per purchase? We're going for the universal strategy with a day zero and the goal is the same for all countries. And this is where we set our cost per purchase goal. So $100. If you set a row as goal, you set that here. So let's say my row as goal is 150%. So that's a 1.5 row as they do it in percentages. So we set it at 100. Then we set our budget, ideally 10x CPA. Realistically, that's also not really where we start. For most of our clients, let's say we're going to do a 3x CPA, so 300. So then we have built the campaign. So we can basically now create a campaign. Oh, there's one issue, something that I skipped. Oh yeah, day zero, we set. Hey, Pap Ivan. What's up, Ivan? He said, I missed the settings. Are you able to target just a city? So they actually very recently rolled this out that you can actually I think target cities. I haven't tested it yet because right now we don't have local businesses as clients. But yes, they rolled it out. I think that you can target per city so that you have local businesses can use it now. You have obviously big fitness chains that can use it for their locations or any at all type of local businesses. Pap, we need to try this out for a restaurant. Yeah, this is really cool. So this is the overview. So we're going to create the campaign. And now we're going to create the creative set. Hey, create a creative set. Again, this is just a creative set. And then this is literally build out the campaign. So you're going to select your assets. And as you can see here, we have videos, interactive, and images. So videos, let's say I'm going to select-- I'm just going to select one video. You can see the preview on the right. Then we're going to select our Interactives. And if you are using, for example, FOM Stop images, then you can go to images, which then will serve as your Interactive. Yeah, that's so cool. You can see the historical stats in there, too. Exactly. So the algorithm will show you what actually gets-- it won't show you a row S per interactive image or video because there are always combinations. But it will show you the impressions, how many impressions. So you know, obviously, if an image gets most impressions, that image will probably performing best same with videos. Perfect. So on the right side, we can now actually see our ads. Phone your muscle and reduce your cellulite all. OK, I'm going to skip. So I'm going to next-stream boom, interactive. And this is my DBA. And if I click Save Life, then it will actually go live. Now, on the creative set level, as I said earlier, you can overwrite the URL that you set on the campaign. So if you want to have, again, like test those different pages, then this is where you do it. And that's literally how you build the campaign. And that's how you go live. Now, you obviously first have to set your billing. You have to set your pixel stuff like that, your brand assets. But again, this can go really fast. A big difference is, as well, is like when you upload creative, it will be automatically reviewed, which actually is incredible. So with meta, what happens now is that you upload your creatives, you publish a campaign, and your ads will go into review. You're always like, with new creative, it's like, oh, are they going to prove it or not? Because otherwise my ads are not going to run. I'm going to have issues. Exxon doesn't do that. You upload your creative, even if it's not in a campaign, and they will review it right away, often within 15 seconds. It will be approved. So you don't have to build first, then launch it, and then it'll be like, oh, I hope it goes well. No, you can first upload it. It is reviewed. And then you can launch it. So you know that you're only a launching with approved creative, which is really cool actually. Any other questions on like the build out of this? I think we answered them all so far, but yeah, Paul says we're good. We've answered all the questions so far. Awesome. All right, well, this was a little intro to to X on and yeah, keep keep an eye out for the the free master class that we're dropping, which will be more in depth, which screen shares with more explanations with more examples. Hey, Pat, well, this is a question for me, but on average, and I know you probably don't have a specific number because it's always changing and dynamic, but all of the clients we've tested this for, which are very different in terms of the markets they serve the products they sell about how many of them actually get proof of concept with this in the beginning, right? Like it actually works 50% I would say. That's amazing. That's a really high hit rate. Yeah, yeah, I would say 50%. Amazing. And then we're able to scale and, you know, that's been official for our agency too, because all right, we're not just spending on meta and Google and YouTube and TikTok. It gives us a whole new platform to spend on. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's amazing like again, like traffic diversification, finding new people is incredible. And X on as well does really well in Q4. We spent a lot of money in Q4 on X on. We also still run as outside Q4, but it performs incredibly well in promotional periods. And Pepp also in terms of the offers to like the destinations and I know we're testing lots of different things and it depends, but traditionally we would send to a product page for Ecom or maybe even a homepage. Do you think there's a spot here for like pre-style articles or other more complicated offer styles? Yeah. It's I don't think we have like one page that always works on X on right now because we are running to home pages, running the product pages. We're running to pre-style articles. So to some extent, it's like all of the above. That's why I always recommend for your first campaign, put as many assets together as you like have in a structured way so that the algorithm can figure out what will work best for you on X on. Yeah, that's great. And in terms of scaling, I mean, just like matter any ad platform, obviously wants something's working, you can spend more. There's really only so far you can go with that. So our scaling mechanisms are those like the creative and the offer and giving X on more to work with while also increasing the budgets or how do you think about that? Yeah, I think the first the first step is vertical, vertical scale, right? So just like bumping up your budget in the existing campaign that is one. And what you can do when you have more creative coming in, like you don't need to create new campaigns if it's going well, what you can do is let's say you launch with one creative set at 500 a day and it's doing really well. What you can do is you can create new creative sets and add new creative to that. And it will automatically test it and it will actually direct the budget to it if it works well. So you can increase a daily budget on your campaign and you can create and you can add new creatives to that campaign in a new creative sense. It is important if you add new creative to that to do that in a new creative set, not an existing creative set because she will throw off the algorithm. Yeah. So very similar to meta sure we're scaling through spend, but also new creative new offers giving X on. Yeah. But yeah, exactly. And you want if you're running row as you want to run a run CPP if you're running day zero, you want to run day seven. So that's basically how you do it. Cool. Testing the other controls. Would you run booth of those side by side if you're running it? Oh, yeah. Okay. That's exciting. Yeah. We have plenty of clients where both work, right? So absolutely. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you, buddy. This was great. Thanks for fighting through your electricity issues. Yeah. So sorry about that guys, but we made it happen. So don't worry. Ariane thinks is always buddy for this. And like Pep said, axon is not paying us to do this guys. We just have a partnership with them where we're creating a free class, which gives smart marketer exposure and gives axon really tactical information for all of their users. So beyond the look out in the next month or two, that will be completely free to all axon users. Make sure you sign up at smart marketer.com/axon. That will always also give you the $5,000 in free credit when you spend $5,000, which is an amazing offer. I wish Meta did that. But yeah, be on the look for the free class. And of course, thumb stop. And you know, Pep, we talked a lot about axon, but one of the coolest parts of thumb stop for me is the static images it's creating for Meta. Most people creating static images on Meta are beating their current controls. And the tool literally creates the concept in less than a few seconds. It's really mind blowing. I wish I would have had this my whole career. And we're also using them for things like organic social. So for our dog rescue, most of the creatives that we're using to post to promote the dogs, even without spend is coming through thumb stop. So it's a really amazing image generator that will continue to improve over time. So definitely check that out smart marketer.com/thumbsstop. And you've got that code up there in the top for 50% off. Thank you so much for listening to the smart marketer podcast. If you enjoyed what we shared today, please help us by subscribing to the show. Not only will you be notified when we have new content, it also helps get the show out to many more people. We appreciate you and thank you so much for listening. [Music]