Episode 25 - Dunc's Adepticon Adventures

[Music] Good morning! Welcome back to Beyond the Brush, the official PRPA podcast. I am your host Joe and I'm joined by Jack. Oh, hello. Yeah, Rodge. Hi. And the returning adventurer, Lord Duncan Rhodes. Hello. And they're in the Lord. Where did that come from? Slip down. Sorry. Your knees are looking a bit dirty there, Joe. Are they? Do I have a brown nose? A rise, sir, Joe. See, it's like Lord, Lord, far quad. What is? Wow. Wow. That's really too much respect. It's not disrespectful. He's a cool character. It's not what he is. Is he, though? I don't know what's going on. Have you seen Shrek? A long time ago. Oh, well, you remember Lord Duncan, I've heard him. Oh, he's dirty. The villain! Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. John Lithgo's coming. Yes. Wow. Anyway, we're here to condone you all back to work interview after being a depticon for a week. Oh, man. So, why do you want this job? Because I really like the people here. Well, now we've got brown nose. Wow. Anyway, so you've just literally, yes, was it yesterday, day before you? It was Tuesday. I got home about lunchtime. You still look jiggly, I'm not going to lie. You're like a panda. You should have seen me yesterday. Like I had two black eyes. I can't sleep on lanes. I just can't do it. So, I had. So, there was all this security trouble over in America, which I'd been completely oblivious to, a particular point I landed in Atlanta. Right. And so, there's lots of advice to make sure that you get security really early. I don't understand the details of what's going on or anything like that, but there was like a skeleton stuff. So, as it turns out, when I was going back through Milwaukee security, I just breathed through in no time at all. So, from getting out of the taxi to getting into the departure lounge with all the gates right next to me, it was 20 minutes. Wow. But I still turned up hours before my flight. So, I was just sitting around with nothing to do for ages. So, I got up, I think, as about 5'6" or something on the Monday morning. And I went to sleep UK time Tuesday evening at 10 o'clock. I managed to stay awake for that entire time. So, I was. I was delirious on Tuesday night when I was going to sleep. That's a hell of a long time. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's just lots of. I made sure, because of previous experiences of missing connecting flights, just to give plenty of time. So, even after I landed in Atlanta from Milwaukee, I had five hours before the flight to back to the UK. So, it was stress-free. So, I got to read and stuff and I had some video games in my iPad. So, it wasn't like board or anything. But, yeah, just as I'm on the plane and it goes dark, I just can't sleep. I try, but I can't be comfortable. My legs start twitching. And the drone of the engines keeps buzzing into my ears. I just can't not off. So, yeah. I had to stop a few times on the way back from London, and I was driving, because I was starting to feel really sleepy at the wheel. So, I'm just going to pull over for a bit. Yeah, I have a walk around, have a coffee. Yeah, I had a matcha latte. A matcha latte. There's a joke going on here and I'm not sure what it is. It's a green, weird green tea. It's like a green tea. I matcha. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I tried one at Starbucks over Christmas for doing a pistachio matcha latte and it was really nice. Imagine like a sort of like a warm milkshake in a way. Like, you know, like sort of like pistachio flavour. Not selling it to me. It was really nice. It was really nice. And anyway, stop doing it, but in this costary I saw that they were had a matcha latte. So, I'll try some of that. Smelled slightly fishy. Nice. Wasn't a big fan. Nothing like fish flavoured coffee. I know. You know, you've really got man's coffee, isn't it? Dipper sea bass in it. Yeah. A tea bag or something. Or if you go. So, I'll have you get an eyeball. This is an African thing. You're like, "Dipping fish." No, it's not. Just, it's going to be better than dipping biscuits in a tea, right? No, no. No, yes. Yes. Yes. That is the worst thing ever. It's not. Okay, it's not, genocide's worst. But that is bad. Genocide. There's a few other things in that list, but, but, but, dipping biscuits is not a bad thing. No, dude, no, you can't do that. Sorry. No, mate. And the bits of the bowl in there, it's just the best. A lot of the genres, which mean? Close, you're going to be a bit better. Why? I fashion icon. Do you just walk around naked when you leave my dish? No, dude, I just wear shorts in the t-shirt, and then I go to bed, I take my shorts off, and I sleep in my underwear and my t-shirt. It's easy. Isn't that like pajamas? No. Because I don't have a separate outfit for that. It's like micro pajamas. Right, no, okay. It's not like micro pajamas. So, it isn't, it isn't the feeling of the pajamas. It's the fact that they're a separate evening wear. It's the getting changed. Yes. Why, I understand, understand. Stupid. I miss you guys. Well, look, if you're really entitled to do that own thing, right? You know? T-M-D. Whatever. You know what I mean? Well, at the end of the day, pajamas are almost as bad as dunking a biscuit. Where did Ted Bumdy come into this? I'll see you guys later. Yeah, my mind goes to dark places and come back to dunking a biscuit. Well, see you, but you're a pajamas fan. I'm just not all right. Well, he was actually kept a connection on. He's not licking it. Sure. But I'm feeling bad dunked in biscuits. Oh, Jack, you have fun editing this. It's just, no, it's nothing to edit. It's just, you're right. You're right. You actually sat on his arms folded like slowly rocking, like, like, gross, isn't it? What's your Jack? Oh, dear. No, no. No, no, no. I like dunking biscuits. No, no, no. It's a car. No. Maybe if you're a baby and you got no teeth and you've got gums or you're 95 years old and you lost your false teeth, sure. But just what's at the bottom there? Just gross. I like so Robert, rather, the Dipperficion there. I'm setting you trend. I'm going to dunk biscuits every time. So gross, dude. Oh, make sure they're biscuits. Like rice pudding. I sure want rice pudding. Like vomit in a bowl. But I do not like it with the skin on. Oh, but jam. But jam. Dude, I'm going to vomit. I swear to God. And even let me think about it. I found another thing. I can't stand it. My son sends me pictures of rice pudding on. It's just like, it's a sensitivity. He's a little swider there. I can't do it at the photo. I can't help it. I've got some chocolates and some Nutella into it. It'd look a lot like money poo. And you can even have some frog sprinkles. The frog could be in there and it could jump out the rice pudding. Oh, I know. I know. I hate you guys. With the skin carried behind it like a puppy. That's super frog. Can we open a new bit in the discord that's just like dedicated to photos of rice pudding? No, yes. I'm just imagining someone this being someone's first time. Let's think of the podcast. They're going to have no idea. We haven't even talked about what we're talking about. We do talk about miniatures. We promise. Right. Right. So the theme of this week's podcast for the 10 minutes we've got left is is a Debticon and all the cool stuff that don't saw when he was there because there was a lot of cool stuff. There's a lot of stuff. You guys have me very cool on the disk. Yes. Yeah. Debtcon's commence show. It's so cool. I really like it. I think it's so if anyone's been to UK Games Expo over here, it's similar in size, but the retail hall is just a part of it. It's mostly games, but this games for every game you can think of. And there's an enormous hall just dedicated to all the warhammer games. But there's also another one for just atomic mass games. And then upstairs there was all historical games being played. And downstairs there was those Romans. And downstairs I actually had a good chat about Romans with somebody. Yeah. And I think I got them to go and buy a pack of victory models, I think. So yeah, I felt quite proud of that. Downstairs there was halls for all the different games. And there was a whole massive area. Well, there it is. But Battle Tech. Right. So the catalysts were over there. Yeah, catalysts were a great big stall. And just across from it, they had this row of pods that you could sit in and it was like the cockpit of a mech. And it was like a simulator. Are you driving it round and stuff? And they were all on a multiplayer thing. So you all battled each other. And then they had a hall of people just playing Battle Tech. And there was like tons of games of it going on. So it was, it was, you don't realize how big Battle Tech is in the, in the US. It's massive. Yes, massive. They had so much Battle Tech product. I spoke to loads of people that were into it as well. And yeah, so I was in the trade hall for almost all the whole show. Really just chatting to people. And that loads of Academy members, which was really, really cool. So hello to all of you. Shout out to you folks. That was great. That was really nice. And loads of people back to the kick start as two. That was also really cool. And yeah, loads of just conversations about people's hobby. And I think I found really interesting, right? I've seen Workshop Announce New 40K, which was the most open secret I think of ever experienced with new Workshop releases. But it felt like there was less of a buzz for 40K than I've yet experienced that adept gone. Or at any show. What do you think that is? Do you think that people just were excited with the models or the release or the announcement? Well, I think. Providing they could hear the announcement, but that's. So I think. So. Yeah. The players who are more competitively minded were really concerned about the information that's given about the rules. Because they just didn't seem interested in the models at all. That works for the show. It was all about, so here the rules changes are. And as I understand it, in one of them, you're now going to. You roll your dice to see what your charge distance is going to be. How you always do, but you now you do it before you declare what target you're charging. So it gives you a safety net as to who you actually attack. And this evidently is going to change things massively and make the game more close combat orientated. At least that's what the players thought. So they were all very wary of what it was going to do to their armies and their strategies. Meanwhile, the players who were more casual had just not seemed to enjoy 10th edition at all. They thought it was too abstract and too competitive. So it was almost like it was both audiences had felt burned in a way. Well, that seemed to be my read into it. So I thought that was really interesting. There were some really interesting rules in the coming out at the moment in relation to full decay and length edition that I think are very very very different what we've seen before. I saw me out of rhinos as probably back. The you can't see units outside of 15, I think it's 15 or 12 inches. I can't remember which one but a short distance unless they are in cover unless they fire their weapons. So there's a lot I think that is going to be unit compositions I've had a changing quite a lot as well. There's legends lists all over the place that are being populated. So I think there's a huge shift at the moment. I mean, it just feels very like yeah, it's very fluid right now. There could be no bad thing. But right now I think there's a lot of uncertainties to what the game is on the look like. There are a number of people who liked the retro look of the box cover. Oh, the hot not retro. How it's a homage to the second edition code X. Yeah, and the people like the Ork model and the space marine, which as I understand it were the freebies given away in the hall when they did the announcements. I think they were taped under the chair or something and they divided up the room into half they were wearing green shirts and half wearing red shirts. And I think that was relevant to what model was underneath the chair. I think it was one of the other. But no one had a spru with them. No one showed it to me. So there's no one really spoke about it. So to be honest, I'm not entirely certain that these sprues were given out. That's to how low key it was. And people liked on the marine having the mark seven helmet that certainly gone down well. But the players who are like, oh yeah, it's really course like second edition. But I'm still going to go and play second edition. Yeah. So it didn't feel like in previous years, there's always been that like sort of like that hyper buzz of oh my god, Newforge K.O. could all the cool stuff are the box sets amazing. This year it's like, oh yeah, shoulder models are going to be great and everything. But oh, what's that over there? Starcraft? Yeah, yeah. Do you remember when we were in retail when a new 4k box was on the horizon? Yeah. And we just went bickies for it. Yeah, it was like, how long would it be? Yeah, you go on about biscuits again. Bickies. Yeah, donks, bickies. But no, you just get absolutely berserk for the new box should do that. We have a ton of events. If I want to be frothing, you'll be in midnight openings. Yeah. It doesn't feel like that. Yeah. I've seen a lot of comparisons actually to the old. There's two things I've seen online, which is controversial to what you've just said. Number one, I've seen a lot of comparisons from the old John Blanche artwork and the new artwork. Not a big fan of the new artwork. I think the this you've lost a lot of the flavor and the narrative of the original John Blanche artwork. This one just feels I don't know. It's just it's just a bit flat. Because what I said last time, I think, I think it is what I think sometimes if you start chasing the stilge too much, I think it can. Yeah, it just it starts to lack. It gives a perception of lack of ideas. It's it's cool because people go, oh, that reminds me great time, but if you're also new to the hobby, or you're in the last 10 years, even, you're not going to be in anything to you, you're going to look at that's cool. But it's a weird one. I personally don't like the new cover very as much as the John Blanche one. Oh, the John Blanche ones like that. That's a bit of a iconic piece of the story. And the other thing I've seen online, which controversial, which is what you the opposite of what you were just saying done is that there are some people that don't like mixing the first born space marine armors with the primaries. Yeah, Mark X armor, which is very strange. So that seems to be a bit divisive as well. Hmm. Well, I my theory is in the sculpting studio, they just few primaire space marines and it's just space marines. Yes, and the primaries story comes in when the miniatures hit the publications and they got to write them into the story. So I think they're just sculpting numbers basically just straight up replacement for the old marines. And it remember like yellow tactical squad you had the mix of marks of armor. I think in this new box at the squad of incesses or whatever it is, they're just going to have all various bits and pieces. I kind of modern space off kits guy actually. I think you're right. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I think it's long overdue to be honest. Yeah, it makes more interesting. I think I think I was never a fan of the primaries story arc thing. I understand why they did it. They had to do something to just a far wild thing is, but I mean, I wonder if they could have just said, hey, look, we have to put these to scale now. We have to remove these and it's got to go to that. I mean, they've got their reasons and I'm probably way off and wrong and I would have probably destroyed games workshop about made that decision. But it just feels like if you're going to get there eventually, you want to just go for it, put rip the pasta off, you know, and just, no, I agree. I agreed. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. But again, like I said, they've probably got decisions that we not privy to and what thoughts be out because clearly what they've done has worked. Yeah. I mean, being a one foot, one hundred company and COVID helped and everything like that. Well, they were not going to sell out space range. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And their presence at the show was huge. There was so many games of warhammer going on of all different types, you know, loads of people there. And still, most of the conversations I had with people related to games workshop games in some way just wasn't as much as in previous times or the shows up into. Also, those two models they showed, I do like them. I like the blood angels going back to a slightly brighter red and having the black trim on the armor again. I thought the same red. Apparently, is the same red. Apparently. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, that was saying because she was part of the team that was painting. Right. She painted some of the the angels. It could be the photography. And I think she said there's a blend as well, potentially, like you'll start seeing different things and she didn't go into anything that was unrevealed, but she said that it was very interesting. She told about the colors and how they painted it. Yeah. I've talked to about that. Yeah. Yeah. I liked the the blood angel transfer on it. Had the gold trim on it. I thought it looked really nice. It was actually hints of the, you know, fancy style of the chapter. And I actually surprised how much I like the Orc boy because I, yeah, I'd obviously don't like the multi part orcs that have been around since 99. But I don't like the body shape of them. They look really unbalanced to me. But this new one, he looks proper stocky and like he's got good center of gravity. You know, and he's working. Yeah. Exactly. With that little bomb sticking out. Now, this one, he looks looks really good. So, yeah, interesting more about those. People love Orcs, I don't they? They do. They always see them well painted once in competitions. Yeah. The boys front to paint. The boss knobs been revealed as well, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the, you know, boys. So I guess it's going to be some sort of incess a squad and some sort of boys mob in that box. Isn't there? And judging by the trailer video, there'll be a chapter with a jump pack and some, um, the lead guards with jump packs and land speeder. And that weird Orcs psychic robot thing. Yeah. Yeah. Weird boys and robots. Yeah. I don't know what that is. But undoubtedly in the right. If you look at the old age sigma trailer, the one that came out for scaven tied. Scaven tied. Scaven tied. Yeah. Scaven tied. Yeah. Um, in the trailer, literally everything that was shown in the trailer is what's in the box like everything. Yeah. So I think it'll be if you pre-trave that trailer throughout throughout it, you'll see. Yeah. Or just way for somebody to get a thrown away copy of the box. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Way for something to chew up a box. And then they're very independent. And then it's around the back of what I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then they're covered in beans and tea bags. Oh, there we go. We've already gay. You probably find it. Yeah. Got to hate big beans. I know there's another thing. I can believe you forgot all the things that I love not been made. Bones with your rice. Not bin beans. I hate you right now. I don't like whistlebearies. So to swirvely from upsetting Roger. Well, there he is. I have to go delayed reaction there. Um, so you mentioned age sigma. Um, they'd sold more tickets for old world gaming than they had age sigma. And this is consistent across the United States right now. Well, well, well, well, kill the pre. Yeah. It's the time of the square. Yeah. But I'm not surprised. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm not surprised. I don't, age sigma, beautiful miniatures, just a really weird narrative. In my opinion, of course, I don't want to get in the out of yuck, anyone's yum, so to speak. But I don't, I don't like the narrative of age. Yeah. As well as a dual world. Yeah. It's easy to get grip at the old. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And we talked about it a lot of times, email on the podcast, but it's just I can understand why I think it's easier to just pick up and run with old world. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think also, um, it's two very different games. And I think, um, when you look at, um, uh, uh, age sigma, you know, they, they, I mean, they call them sigmarines, you know, it feels like they just wanted it at the time just to make a 40k sort of version to try and, try and improve. Yeah. And they've stuck with their single bases. Yeah. But people want regimen based games, you know, and that's the thing is, yeah, it's two very different games. So if you're going to play age of sigma, it's going to have quite a few similarities to 40k. So you might think, well, I'll just play 40k. Then it's more people play that. But if I want something really different, then I'll play thing. I'm really good. I want to actually, yeah. Yeah. That's good. Side. I've been age of sigma. I arguably, to me, I think they make the best miniatures games workshop makes. Yeah. Yeah. By, by a country mile. You know, they're monsters and they creatures and that are just out of the world. I think you're right, Roger. I think like the more time goes on. and the higher Game Drops of Price is getting, it becomes quite inaccessible to a lot of younger fans. So it becomes people sort of our age, sort of in their approaching middle age and have got disposal income that can buy these miniatures. But because of that, you've only got a finite amount of time. And if I can play a real base skirmish game and have a lot of fun and guarantee you having some fun, I'm going to play fully K, right? Because you can find a game. For sure, in a form of a strategy game, I need to think about a thing. And it's going to be like four hours of thinking, having a laugh, really intense turns, I'm going to play Old World. And I don't think, for me, there's a space for age of sigma in that schedule. Yeah, yeah, you've made a really good point, Roger. Not really thought about it that way. But you're right, a game of age of sigma kind of looks like a game of 4K. You don't have everyone's playing 4K. Why wouldn't you just do that? Yeah. And I think that's the thing. I think it's too similar. Where Old World is, it's an established world that people love. I really love the world. It's a pity they didn't support it earlier. But people just want it to different games. It's a completely different game. Yeah, yeah. The problem with Old World really was the barrier to entry. Like, what I'm a fantasy, I should say. That's the big issue the game had. And Old World deals with that because it's cheaper to buy. A starter army set and be able to play. Yeah. It works well at a thousand points. Yeah. You don't need a unit of 40 guys. No. Yeah. Unless you're Dale. Unless you Dale. Yeah. It is. God, this is our unit of horrifying go. Of all things. Yes. Go on. It's a huge unit, dude. Oh, it's an entertainment table. Yeah. It covers about one eight at the table. That's amazing. It's a unit so big that you've mounted it on a gaming tile. That's just a move of tray. Yeah. This game in time is moving tray. Yeah. Oh, dear. So, what else did you see at a depth of con, then? Ah, so, well, there was, in that the trade haul I saw lots of cool stuff going down. So, I had a bit of a wander around before the actual haul opened and I saw the big row of rulebooks on the trench crusade stand. They had a big, big, big row of them. Hardback rulebooks. Absolutely beautiful. All of them gone in about the first half day. Yeah. So, I was hoping to go and get a copy. And, yeah, I didn't want to try and buy one before the haul opening. So, I thought that was unfair, right? And then the haul opened. I thought, all right, I'll give it a bit so that people would really want it. They're going to get theirs and they'll go over and buy one after that. Yeah, they all go. They all go. They had all more plastics on there. So, they've been really going through it with that. So, they had, they had that core set of the Prussian troopers. Yeah. Inside there, there's some elite troopers and some regular troopers. And they have an expansion set of the elite guys on sale. And the regular ones is coming soon. And they also had sniper priestess of plastic set as well. And they had the box sets of, I think, there were 3D printed models as well. So, they had quite a lot of stock there. And they were, they were really selling well. They had a big booth. And on the other side of them was the Arkon Studios booth, which was huge. Like huge. I think it had a bigger floor space than the Games Workshop sale standard. Really? Yeah, they were huge last year at the time. I mean, you could Games experts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the University of gaming. Yeah. And they're the He-Man game, but they were really there to push Starcraft, which is on pre-order now, I think. But they were selling it early there. So, they had these big mountains of the box game. I remember like how we used to do in retail. We had the new 40K box game. You'd stack them all up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, they were various mountains of these things. And they had little intro tables to demo the game. And another thing they had was really cool was this stand with just sprues on. You get inside the sets, just so you can see the plastics. Yeah. And they got all these translucent ones. So, you got gun effects that you can stick on your guns if you want to and stuff. So, they've got gun all out. Yeah. And then they had the racks with the actual box sets on. So, you know, they'd really gone for it. And they sold out of those box sets by lunchtime day two. Wow. So, they've all gone. I think our con is the only company that's going to come close to competing in games with our shop. Well, I think there's a fire lit underneath them. Yeah. And I think their star is rising. Yeah. Well, you'd go back to the conversations I had with people. It normally would be about 80/20 in favour of games with shop conversations. This year it was more like 60/40. Yeah. And there are a lot of people really excited about Starcraft. Yeah. Really excited to know. I've played a demo of Starcraft. So, I'm vaguely familiar with it. My wife used to really play it when she was younger. And so, she's been explaining all the factions and races and stories and stuff to me. And I imagine it's like someone trying to get into Warhammer where someone tells you about the the nitty gritty of the Blood Angels and, you know, the floor and the jean seat. Like, what? What's the jean seat? It's kind of like that, you know, I'm a big fish out of water. Yeah. But she was really passionate about it. And it was the same with people I was talking to. I've got to know, it's got a very loyal following. Yeah. And even then they've not done anything with it for God knows how long. It's still people are playing that game. Yeah. Well, the model's a really good quality. And the, you know, I was, like, genuinely impressed by how good these plastic sprues were and it's all multi-parts or posable. Price-wise, I, it was in dollars. So, I was just trying to get my head around it. But it was about, you know, £30 for a squad of guys. It seemed to be roughly equivalent. That's not too bad. So, seemed to right. You get nine marines in a box set with a zerg. You get loads of the little creatures. And they all had different size units too. And they had three factions as well. So, there was the humans, there was the zerg who, like, tear it down, like, and the Protos, who, like, gather a sort of, like, elder, like some psychic ganglions. And they're all in color plastics, so blue, purple, and yellow, respectively. And, yeah, they have all the optional bits. So, the, the Protos have some troops like force fields on them. And so, you had these little hexagonal force shields that you could stick on the base in front of a hand where they'd reached out to get the impression of them, like, blocking a bullet or something. So, yeah, they'd really thought it out. It's actually really cool. It's really cool. Yeah. It's not a good chance. It's not when a company, like, get goes for it. Yeah. Yeah. So, the only challenge they're going to have is this licensed IP. Yes. So, it restricts you on what you can do. Yeah. I'll say you've got to go. How far can you go? Yeah. We've seen this with many companies, with, like, doing IP like that. It's, who does restrict you? Who owns it? Is it Blizzard, though, in StarCraft? Yes. Yeah, it is. Activision Blizzard. StarCraft, walkraft. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was pretty sure it was the same thing, wasn't it? Yeah. Well, yeah, okay. Yeah. They've already got quite a lot of stuff on the way. So, I'll go with the Terrans, right, the humans, because that was the thing I get my head around the quickest. But they had similar quantities of units for the others too. So, for the Terrans, you had the Squatter Marines, which, like, nine dudes, you had a pack of medics, and I had three of them in there. And they were a pack of three guys, I think they were called Juggernaut, or something, which would make me think a bit of space for interminators, and there were three of those inside that box. There was a Dreadnaut-style robot, and then there was a two-legged walker, like a Dreadnaut. So, that's five separate sets right from the start, and they had that for all three of these factions. So, that's quite a big investment right from the beginning. Yeah. It might be a listipulation from Blizzard Activision, because this will be small fry for them. They might have come right with one X amount of representation before you launch. Yeah. But it's no bad thing for the fans, right? Yeah. They get more, more very quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Get a gift of just running, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. They're very kindly gifted us a Box of Marines and a Box of Zerg. It's a nice. It's a bring back, so we're going to be making some videos on those aren't we? Yes, we are. So, yeah, if you listen to this and you're interested in Starcraft, keep an eye out, so soon we'll be painting some of those models. That's very cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. So, what else? There was loads of indie studios around as well, which I thought was really cool doing their own little games. Next was there was one called Oasis, and it looked like it was epic-sized, so really small scale, it was mostly little tanks and the hovercraft was camel racing. Yeah. A horse, a wooden horse. Now, copyright that idea. That sounds good. Camel racing. And so this is a dude who just made this game at home, and he built up to the point where he now had a printed colour rulebook, and he had all these different sets. And it was mostly, as I understand it, 3D printed resin, but it was very so that like models and things are available. Yeah. I think the idea is that you meant to be like trying to salvage vehicles and sort of bundle them together, and the table he got set up for it was a cool landing bay and stuff, and it had a smoke machine and it and stuff, and he had a landing pad with a drop ship on it, which he'd put electromagnets underneath the landing pad to the drop ship with magnets in it, was literally floating above it. So that was really cool. Cool. Yeah. And if you poked it, it would slowly start spinning round, because of course there's friction on it. You know. But I thought the sound was really cool. Yeah, really, it was great to see a small startup had gone to, got that level of static at the point. Absolutely. Yeah. You got it. You got it. You got it pulled out there, it guys are going to give it a go, right? Yeah. You said they're doing their best and they're just going for it, right? Absolutely. Awesome. Got some traction as well. That Oasis board, the intercapitur of the, we put on social media, and the last week lots of people excited about that. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. What games this? This was really cool. Yeah. So yeah, there was that, oh, what else was there around there? There was numerous lots of little stalls selling you odds and ends and things. There was some stand selling, some second hand stuff, some old stuff. And one was quite incredible, because it had things like space marine, you know, like the old epic. Yeah. Still in their cellophane in a interesting condition. As you imagine, they were quite expensive. One of the boxes was, I said, your photo, I think, the skeleton army and all the sprues were complete. It wasn't in cellophane, but it was in immaculate condition. The boxes smaller than I thought. Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was a great accept, but it was not. It was. It just rammed a tons of skeletons and we were much smaller when they first got out. That's what that is. And I think that was $350. Wow. That's a lot of cash. How much was the fortress? I didn't see, because it was really high up and it's really heavy and it was in an awkward place to get to, so I didn't want to try and drag it down less. That's for our listeners. I wanted Duncan to get that for me and he turned me down. What? It's in the hate mail. I asked you if you wanted it and you didn't reply. That's the same thing. The same thing. You should have run out. I. I should have known, but I would have been able to fit it in my suitcase. So I would have had to ask the guys from Tagos there would have had to ask them to post it to us. It's amazing even head that though. Yeah. And I think you should be released. Yeah. I think they should fall. They've got the sprues. Hmm. They've got the tooling. I bet they will. I bet you. Well, I'll be expensive though. I mean, if it's a sprue per side of a tower, yeah, that's going to be hundreds of pounds. They made a giant thing full of skulls, remember? They cost a quarter. They did. But it was it was cast told before it was a slightly different pricing strategy back then as well. I think if they released the mighty fortress now, it was 250 grid minimum. I think they did for 120, 125. I don't think they would. I think it was 100 when we were in the studio. 50, 50, 50 pounds. Yeah. When it first came out, yeah, in that in that packaging, the digital bits. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it went up. I don't even remember when it was taken off sale. Yeah. I think it was just below 100 when it came off sale. I think maybe I remember seeing it when I was in. Yeah. I bought it when I was in the studio. The fantasy campaign I was doing at the time. And I remember being surprised how cheap it was at the time. I think they split it up, didn't they? And they sold the towers and walls separately. Yeah. Instead of selling the box there. Yeah. It was in the bag. Yeah. I think it was like 30 quid of tower. I think it was like 20 quid of wall. I think in the end, the walls, the towers and the gate house. So we had three. Yeah. Three pieces. Yeah. Yeah. That was really cool. There was also the standout in the hallway. And so what I've spoken to. Yeah. This one's really cool. So all the depth gone used to be open 24 hours a day. But the bed center, whereas now it has to close at I think 11 o'clock and then it reopens at six. But whilst the show's open, that stand is open. So you see people there late at night just rummaging through all these boxes. They have these these tubs that are all labeled as each army. And they're a little baggy. He's just full of all random miniatures. And for like just a few dollars each, so people are sitting there going through. And when the shop when the show first opened because they're outside the trade hall, that stand was open on the Wednesday night. So it was heaving. So I managed to get a quick look in there. But I was off to go on meet the guys from tag. So I didn't have very long. Now I was kicking myself right. I saw codex space wolves for the second edition one, which is one of the books I need for my collection for $50. And then there was a copy of Warhammer Army's Lisbon from Fifth Edition and Wood Elves. Both those were only $30. And I was like, oh, that's really cool. I don't have time to get them now. But I'm going to come back and of course I've gone. So I was devastated because that's compared to what you see on eBay. That was so cheap. Well, they're like an eBay. On eBay or codex space walls were only 60 to 70 pounds. Really? I need to just do the battle too. But that one seems to go for like a hundred pounds on eBay. That's quite a lot of stuff. Yeah. So I'm always keeping my eye out for a good deal. But yeah, yeah. Should have lectured it when I had the chance. Lesson learned there. Yeah. Yeah. There's a saying for that, isn't there? The early bird gets the worm. That's right. You didn't get your worm. I didn't. I did not. But that's the shop that I bought a son of ice and fire from. The last time I went to a depticon as part of games workshop. And I do remember leaving one of my seminars. I was really tired and no one had helped me to idea or anything like that. So I was like a bit grumpy. And so I just went over my full games which would be uniform and bought it. It's cheer myself. I think I would have gotten trouble if I'd been witness doing that. But anyway. Yeah, that was really cool. Now, of course, on the Saturday night was the army competition. And I invited to be part of the judging team. I got to meet some of the judges from the new last time. I got to chat with Dave Taylor. So he was he's real gent. He's like a games workshop legend in a way. And it was like a dot thrower, doesn't he? Dave Taylor. Yeah, it just sounds like if you're going to play dots, like competitive, that's the name. But it was really cool going looking at these armies. And for folks not seeing these displays that are made in America for these shows, they're just crazy. They're absolutely crazy. Yeah, they really do. Smoke machines and water features are quite common. We actually have a ton of pictures that you sent me that has going on onto the Facebook showcase group on the weekend. Yes. Because I can put them all up in the gallery. Well, they're so many. There was I think there were 75 entries. And so what they do across all the different tournaments, anyone who has a standout army will get given a, I can invite I can go and tick it for it turn up on Saturday night and put everything out and display. And there's various categories of judged forces like best in show and then there's runner up for that. But there's also best painted best display. There was another one. And then there's the judges' choices. So each or five of us, we each had to pick one that we really liked. And each of these gets a trophy. And it's it's overwhelming because I mean, one of these displays was a it was a just sigma themed. And it was a caradron wailing station that was being attacked by the Ardena Thiefkin. So if you imagine like the ramp where they'd pull up a whale. So it was a bit gruesome to be honest with you. I didn't like the nature of that bit. But the castle built on top of it was, I do I was like blood everywhere and stuff, right? But it's not real. But on top of it was like this massive castle. That was maybe three meters tall. Three meters. Yeah, from the first time. It was on a table, right? Three meters. Three meters off the ground. The top of the castle. Yeah. So the top it was not talking about the literal display was right. Because it was on a table. But this thing I had to look up high at this thing. I couldn't touch the top of it. Wow. And coming out of the sea was a giant octopus attacking it. And all the caradron ships were fighting it and stuff. And they were like all the the deep kin were attacking out the sea. And it was all waves on it. And then underneath the waves there was a scene where it was cut out the side of it. So it was like a tunnel going underneath the water into the various different stations. And this thing. And they built it in three segments. And this time was the first time it all been together in one go. So they built everything separate and made sure all the measurements matched. Wow. And did it win? I think that one got a best in show. I think it was quite a whirlwind at the time. Oh, please. Thanks. Yeah. I think that one got best in show. For best display, I think it was a one for Blood and Blunder. So you heard a Blood and Blunder? So this is like a pirate's game. Which is actually quite popular over there. As far as historicals go, it's maybe second only to bolt action. And bolt action was really popular by the way. There was loads of people there playing bolt action. Yeah. But anyway, this Blood and Blunder set had three separate biomes in it. So there was like a winter one, a foresty one, and then a coast one, miracle. And each one of them had a different army on display in this different environment. Like Native Americans. And there was like pirates and there was French, I think. And that one won best display because it was just really beautifully put together, like scenic things. So everything fitting nicely into it, you know, the water effects and all stuff like that. Because there were some that had things like they'd be a river running through, with actual water going through. And it's like, well, that's nice, but I can also see some of the polystyrene and damaged bits, you know. So the detail is the killer. I think they're trying, I mean, when we did it the one year, you know, Gastic music on and they put the smoke machines and the LEDs and stuff. Which I just, I think it's don't. Yes. It's, yeah, speaking of the music, yeah. There was one that had a speaker built into it and you could see it shaking as it was like blasting out this music and it was making it all the model shake. There was a weird thing. I think there was maybe seven, six or seven stands. That word. Six seven. You're welcome, Jack. Hold it as high as this. They'd have slanesh rock bands. And they'd be almost playing a gig. And so there was one of them where it was a turntable in the middle and it was spinning round whilst playing music and it'd be like, you know, noise marines with guitars and stuff. But there were a whole bunch that were like that. There was some of that one night night clubs and things and I don't understand that. And there was, there was one of the guys who actually was one of the winners of one of these categories because what he painted was really good. But it's like, oh, what do you think of this, these space-brained scouts at a night club? And I was like, well, to be honest, I wouldn't ever pick it as a winner because it's space-brained scouts at a night club. Honestly, space-brained scouts in a battle, you know, something that's entrenched in the eye. They would have like a WKD in their hands and stuff. Yeah, it was that kind of thing. And it was, it was exactly painted, you know, and it put in the, I can't think, yeah, like the fluorescent glows that you get in night club and black lights and stuff, you've got that in it. So it's like, you know, but it's still a night club. So like that's the thing that I never did before. I guess I'd never be that stupid in there, dude, don't they? That's the argument for it, right? But what did you say? They've got a little bit of steam. But in there were their slippery nipple cocktail. And then like, oh, yes. I like the empathy, you know. But they're quite a few like that. Like here's the marines all hanging at a bar and having a beer. And it's funny, but I'm not going to pick it as a winner over one that's an actual full-on battle scene if you get what I mean. Sure. That's just sort of, I guess, anyone listening, who was in the competition to bear in mind as you part of your strategy, is cooler if it fits the IP of that universe that you're trying to portray. The Northern judges feel the way. Yes. Yes. Don't make space between scouts in night clubs, it sucks. Yeah, it's insane. So it's like who would be the dormant at this? It's the Scouts party. And what. an algorithm? No, algorithm would be able to figure it out. No, no, no, you'd have to have another marine. A primary. What's the primary? The team that made that. So it was a husband and wife team who'd done that one. And they had another entry, which was, so it was Marvel Crisis Protocol. And Zynestandit, it was themed on, what's that organization that's controlled like checking the multiverse and making sure? TVA. TVA, yeah. So Zynestandit, it was set from the offices of the TVA. And it had six segments in that were all looking at different scenes across the multiverse, which were all done by miniatures. And it was like security cameras were watching these things. Which really cool, but because they were so far back, the models, we had to bring the models forward so we could see them because they were beautifully painted. But so this team, they tried really hard and they'd last year, they were trying really hard, and they'd listened to all the feedback and they'd implemented it and how they were setting up their scenes. So like the space for a nightclub thing, for example, they had got a central set piece in the middle and they had got cameos around it and stuff. So they definitely thought to talk about. And they won two of the awards, which is the first team in Adapticon history to do that. And a whole blessed, it was too much when they got these trophies. They were like trying not to cry and everything. They were so emotional about it. So it was like, it was nice that they achieved that stuff. But the guy who won the best diorama, the best scene was this Blood and Blunder one. I think he thought that he didn't really stand a chance because across the R from him is this thing playing music and shooting smoke and all this sort of stuff. But it's not about the effects. They're nice. It's like a black pool, isn't it? But when you look at this, it's a beautiful diorama essentially. There was no imperfections on it. So that's stuff to look for. Devils in the detail. Sure. But yeah, it was quite overwhelming. And he has to make the water. Yes. Who kind of hardly understand this smoke you think or a LED light or anything. It goes wrong. There's no hiding it. The best painter actually was this imperial, this Chaos Knight army. And this guy was right at the very end of the row after another one, these big crazy displays. And it was very easy to miss it. But it was really cool because it was all these knights had been customized in some way. And beautifully painted with all like runes and stuff splat on the side of them. Everything was smoothly blended. And they all had these really like interesting little twists on like how the heads were done on the night. So we are robotic heads and stuff. So they were really cool. It's weird, though, isn't it? Because you look at like an armies on paratub stuff over here in the UK and it's literally a ball with a little bit of detail. But in the US, you can see how it's progressed. I mean, I remember going to adapt to the first time I went. And some guy had actually built a starship console. Yeah. And the battle was as if it was they were viewing it from the console. So you were viewing a battle down. It was huge. I was a thing when I went and someone made a space marine cruiser and had it like floating above their board. So it was like there on me. It was underneath. This huge, great space in cruise was above it. And it was very well done. It was just it was just mental. Well, we've actually got a big basement or something. You can yeah, they've got the space in their homes to do it. They do. They do. Because they're driving there. They can get it over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's besides it's it's somewhat overwhelming. So. But the the judging was very organized. Dave took the lead on like going through all the different things. And we were all saying our peace and all discussing it and things. And when he got to choosing our best armies, when everyone like, oh, I also like that one. Oh, we all like that one. All right. Well, one of us will pick that. It doesn't doesn't matter who picked what, right? One of us will pick that. So we know that's locked in. What else do we think was really cool? We get to pick five that we just think are really nice and stand out. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Who would be the other judges? So let me think there was Sam Lens was there. Some already met him. He was really nice. There was Jason, I forget his surname, but he was from Monument Hobbies monument and doing the paint. So he was I think it was the boss of them. There was Courtney who is a lady on the YouTube and Instagram. I think it's true. And oh, there was one other day. Yeah, a day Taylor. And then me. So that was the five. Yeah. Yeah. Who did you pick for your favourite? Well, for my favourite army. So I and Jason both really liked a a bolt action army, which was meant to be it was like the liberation of Elba. And it was Italian resistance and French resistance. So it was like all these civilians and things on this diorama board that was like a, you know, this town. And again, it was perfect. Right. It was really, really nice display. And the cool thing you pick that is because you know, normally for bolt actions or like drab, olive greens and stuff. So I had that. But because it was like French resistance, they had flashes of the tricolor on there. So those bits of colour. So it looked really, really cool. Well, I a really nice, interesting bolt action army. The other one was a, it was an adeptistitanic as army. And it had no display board, but he had arranged it beautifully. And what it was was a imperial fist Legion force with loads of tanks. And then some titans from Legio, not a storm. I can't think which one it was. They're red and white. And they, they, everything was so precisely painted down to the binding, the banding on the armour of all the infantry. So it was really, really cool. But what held that on back as I didn't have a display to put it on. And it didn't need something, anything to tack you or anything. Just something nice to frame it. I would have lifted that a bit a bit further. So both of us were saying like, we both really like those, we can't decide which. Oh, there's a new man. We're both pick one. There's no matter who picked what, but we picked those two. So they were really good. I'd be great. Was the tree put those on social media and really highlight which ones they were? Yeah, we can't, yeah, point them out the photos. Yeah, let's do that. That sounds really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what it was. I'd like to say is it was quite a whirlwind. There was a lot going on. Yeah, the, the people doing this place, some of them are very enthusiastic, shall we say, about the judges coming around because the reason why they're at adept on it is for that thing. So they'll have bags of sweets or things to give away and stuff like that. Well, that's the thing, right? I was very particular with my feedback from last year. It's really nice that they want to give a gift, but they shouldn't, right? Because it does look like a bribe. So I also have it to reject these things. But there was one stand where there was a, so if I remember correctly, there was some games watch up staff who were doing this one. And it was a city as a sigma theme army. And they had a book and they wanted people to sign the book to sign up to the army at which point they get given a coin like they get in the law for the city of sigma. And they were all their dress to sigma right priests. And they were like very loudly trying to get people to sign up for sigma. Light jahobas went this is like jahobas went this is wow. You've got a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior. Well, I was like sigma. Lady the lake mate. That's a bit creepy. But cool. But some people were going all out in the, you know, for like all costumed and everything. So you can see there for a lot of these people. That's the reason that they're there. Yeah. So yeah. Mental. Yeah. Absolutely crazy. And yeah, all surrounding all this was about a billion games being played all the way through. Oh, I met one of the Academy winners from the last painting challenge we did. Robin who had painted a battle mech. And so we got to have a chat and just basically had a coffee. So all these different mechs have been painted one, one, one, lance or another. So that was really nice to me to build the Academy member, you know. Oh, um, little Zach. Oh yeah. A big, um, big member of the Academy and a big personality on the painter's showcase. Took silver, didn't he? It's the golden demon young. I didn't get a silver. I didn't, I didn't see him after because we were packing up before the announcements were made. But yeah, he'd been coming over to the stand a lot along with his dad. And he painted the sanguinaur, I believe it was. And done it. Yeah. Yeah. Then it an on metallic metal. And um, is that it advised having a OSL effect of like the jet engine behind the model and he tried it and he didn't like it. So, there was a bit like like, oh no, is it, is it, is it ruined the model? Oh no, it's okay. And then it was like, he's basically just getting some advice on it. And then we painted this stuff to look like scorch marks as to whether jet engine or blasters took off. But he kept the glow on the back of the miniature as well. And it looked really, really good. So it all worked out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So very well. I'm a Johnny. That's it. Bless him because his journey from when he started. Yeah. The learning and to now you see his progression. Yeah. It worked really hard at it. You know. Yeah. That's the thing he's worked hard. That's right. Next year he's going to be on full golden demon. So long the young bloods. It's actually step up there. So I'm interested in what he'll have. It's a lot of the rings you got a chance. I'll tell you a story about Lordlings later. Bruised my weekend last week. Oh, the announcement of the new film. No. No, I'll tell it now because the suspense will kill everyone. No, it won't. Do tell. So I was invited to a surprise birthday, right? And I agreed to go to it. And then found out very quickly after agreeing to go into it. It was a three film, "Nord of the Rings" extended edition marathon at the time. How'd you back out of that after you've agreed to go out? You're like, "Oh, God. Oh, God." That's like 12 hours. I started at 10 o'clock last Saturday, 10 a.m. in the morning. Film started at half past 10 and we walked out in that cinema at 5 past 11. Now, what I can say is I caught up on quite a bit of sleep during the end scenes. And there was a lot of walking that I slept through a lot of. It was mental. Thankfully, it was quite a nice cinema. But yeah, so I can now safely say that I have sat through all three exhibitions back to back with a half hour gap in between. You're lucky, dude. That's a privilege. That's a honor. It's pretty cool. It's an honor. Yes, it is. It's an honor. It's like being in a book called "Busketsu Coffee", dude. So I'd accept this one as a honor. It was the hobby I would have been fine, but it was all the rings Jesus. I wanted to, and the one in the interlude stand up on the stage, be like, "I just got a question for everyone. How are we feeling about the honor of the rings compared to the hobbit?" You would have been so delighted that they're good and scary movie. Oh, yeah, the one is getting stabbed. Yeah. So anyway, that was my weekend last weekend. I've really lost you with judging our best paintings on. I was watching other things. It was just really nice to meet so many people. It was really cool to hang out with the guys from Tag as well. So Ian was there. So Ian's the co-owner. Yeah, the co-owner. And he's just a great guy. He's just really nice to chat and have some dinner with him and stuff like that. And he was there with his fiancee and that was really nice chat with her too. Yeah, Milwaukee's a really nice place. Really strange. It's the most quiet city I've ever been to in my life. You just step outside and there's no cars driving around. And maybe one or two people walking around, everything's well lit. It's all clean and tidy. It's a very strange place. Yeah. Wow. So there's no one can spell it to get there in this end. Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Milwaukee. My Milwaukee. I do recommend going if you're interested in seeing like, walk gaming shows as best. Yeah. It's really, really good. Well, and if you two, any of you listeners want to catch up with Doug at a show, close to the home, we're at a salute next weekend. We are. That's coming up isn't it? Yeah. Not. You know, one go to the XL Center this weekend because we're not there. Unless it's a show there that you are going to show. Yeah, sure. But it won't be salute because that's next weekend. And then is it six weeks to like spell? Oh, God and ungodly amount. I'm not in there. Not enough time. We've got all the surface trophies to make in a ton of rep to do so. Yeah. Yeah, getting pulled in for boot polishing again, Jack. Oh, that's not what he's parodnaing. He's a boot polished Jack. That is parodnaing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Boot polished Jack. Yes. Oh, Simon Jack. Excuse me. Simon Jack. I'm. Bootstrap. Jack. Boot polished Jack. Boot polished Jack. Boot polished Jack. Boot polished Jack. Pirate name. Shiny boots. We've gone down a weird rabbit. Yeah. I cannot stand the texture and smell of boot polish. And obviously we use that as a part of preparation for the trophies. What if it was in some rice pudding? No, well, I don't care about rice pudding. That's great. It's just ruined the rice pudding. But boot polish is horrible. What a stupid dessert. You've got to rise for a dessert. You mean, I scream or cake and stupid rice. I know it's obviously a post-war thing, right? To do it in the war when there was rations and stuff. But who thought, let's dig rice, thicken it up and put sugar in it. I literally only, anyone's had this conversation. That's the weirdest, the weirdest hate that we had skin. I don't think it's a weird hate rice pudding. Yeah, thank you. Why? It's so gross. What are tapioca. The hell's that? Yeah, well, stuff's good. It's like rice pudding, but not rice. So what is it? I don't know what it's like calling a steak ice cream. It's like a steak on this ice cream. Yeah. That's just nasty. Do you know what? Should we do some questions? Yeah. It's good to be back. I'm back in the saddle with the crew. Right. Did it go on to the discord page and look at some questions. Speaking of which, we are moving the forum and closing it down and moving everything to discord. Yes. Yes. Yes. So if anyone sees on the discord page a new channel has been created. Yeah. There is called the April Academy Challenge, which is green for spring. Fresh. Greenery, which is awesome. That's good thing. Absolutely. There's been a new channel made that is in a forum style in the sense that you can post a picture or I'll put a post into the into that channel. And then you can comment on that picture specifically, but it doesn't then extend the chat. Yeah. On the feed cheat. That's an awesome. That's an easy to. Yeah. So when you're posting into there, please do make sure you post as a as a as a new thread in there as a new message. It'll be very self as much when you get into it and have a look, but don't just comment on my original description of the of the challenge because then it will just become a picture as part of my post. Yeah. So just. Yeah. But yeah, everything's moving over to the over to the discord page because we're planning on doing lots of cool stuff and it's great to have it all in one place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So just time. It's too old and clunky now. Yeah. Totally. And there are anyone that likes their old forum style discord isn't a million miles away from that. It's just kind of modernized it. It's a little bit more accessible for people. And you will need you will need a discord account, which is free. You will. And then you just sign up through the to the discord page on the members page. You just go through there and you one of the steps. Yeah. Yeah. And then if you're listening that are not can remember a you should be that's really cool. And you get access to logical stuff. But if you're not there is also a non members discord page as well, which is the official Duncan Rose painting Academy discord, which you can find on our Facebook and Instagram pages. The link is pinned. I think on the Facebook page. Any any issues do drop us a message and I can send you the directly anyway. Call questions. Yes. Let's pull up some questions. Beyond the brush questions. It's weird. I don't like rust putting but I can eat pumpkin pie. Oh pumpkin pie is so good. Yeah, it's strange. So good. I mean pumpkin is not made with rice. So isn't that strange. But it's it's amazing taste can be good. Yeah, it was because it's got nice pastry and cinnamon and stuff. Agreed. Anyway, I don't I don't I don't. Yes, Joey found the questions yet. You can find all right. Listen, right. Okay, stop. We've got a question from Zepby. Zepby. Hello. Hello, Zepby. Thoughts on the AOS fifth edition rumors. This is new to me. Hi, presumably you've heard about the leaks. I've got a sick mark dies. Spool spoiler. Say what? And they're any rumors. The mortal realms are blown up and AOS becomes the last world. And everything goes back to being on a single planet slash world slash map. But just with the AOS factions. It seems silly to me as it's just rehashing the old world. And we already have the old world. But curious if you had any views. Does it make sense as a move? Does it not make sense? Do you not care? Because it's a leak slash rumor. And regardless of how reputable the source, it's not real and it's real sort of logic. Okay, many thoughts. That's interesting. Well, I would better lodge some of money that will be on your age of sigma next year, following there three year pattern. I think you're all expects that. So. So with a sigma, it seems to me. And I'm getting this a lot from conversations last week that no one really knows what the story is and no one really cares what it is either. Correct. So I think that age of sigma has a big problem with people investing in it from a hobby perspective. There's clearly a lot of tournament gamers who like it as a tournament game. Sure. But that casual classic warhammer just seems to not be there with it. I think workshops going to try and bring that back. And I think they tried it with the last edition with the change to all the boxes being read. It looks to me like it's like a retro. I am a fifth edition, sixth edition fantasy style color. You know, I've seen that they'll try to evoke some of that. But I think the old world appearing basically shot at the knees and it's just still had the same problem. So I think the next edition, they're going to try and cement it down narratively. It's me just predicting by the way to try and make people more interest in the story and more from a hobby perspective. Yeah. I don't know if that'll work. I think it might have if old world wasn't there, but I think old world has basically taken away as best chance of building its own identity. Yeah, I agree with you. I know that was always something in their back pocket that they can always just saw. The realm gates are just like pinholes to thread. Yeah. Thread the old world back into if we need into backtrack. But old world obviously has replaced that extra. Yeah. Um, no. Unless the main studio uses politics and shuts the old world down, I mean, the back and does anything with this possible. And says, hey, you keep making giant tanks and robots. Yeah, we'll have old world back and we'll be a mountain. Age of Sigma back. You got the old world. Yeah, you guys can have the Horace Heresy and we'll take. I could see them doing some like that. To be honest, I think he, I think you just have to accept that the fantasy game will never be as popular as a sci-fi game. I think at some point, if the old world has become so popular, it's no longer a specialist game. It's part of the core, the core offering. Then at some point, the specialist game studio that make those small, those small scale games, I know Horace Heresy isn't a small scale game. But it's not made by them, but it's, yeah, yeah, millimetre. Yeah, exactly. It kind of makes sense that it would move back to the main studio. Yeah, I could see that change happening and being, it being dragged in. Whether they'd more shade your sigma or into it and have those factions on square bases, I don't know. Yeah. But it goes back to what you said earlier, right? A game aged to go on looks like 40k and no one's interested in the story. So really all it's got is its particular gameplay mechanics about it. Yeah. Yeah. And cool miniatures. So if you force that onto square bases, you have some backlash. The people in the old world, in my experience, generally don't like the age of sigma style because of the end time stuff. So they would like it. They're not going to be unhappy. So you can't put the current miniatures a lot of one square basis, because they just will not rank up. Exactly. No. Yeah. And there was also I'll give one positive though was that you can really make dynamic fantasy miniatures. Yeah. I worry about ranking up. Yeah. I don't think anyone discreeted the miniatures like amazing. Most of those toys soldiers are just absolutely. Yeah. Prime. Yeah. Let's. But yeah, I haven't heard the rumor. I don't think any of us have. No. I used to. Yeah. I'm not. We have now. Yeah. Yeah. Bring your attention, but I'm skeptical. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I think really the. So say old world does take over a just sigma in sales. I think the only option is to bite the bullet and just have a swap and age sigma because especially this game and old world becomes the game. It's a possibility. Yeah. And just carry on like that and well, but the obviously a lot of investments been put into age sigma. But just keep it coasting as it is. Yeah. I'm sure the age sigma fans wouldn't be happy to hear me say that. But I think that's the reality of what you're looking at. Oh, yeah. All right, next question. Yeah. From sweet Caroline. Ah, not the right. I even had a tune in my head. The sweet one. And you said, yeah, shall we do it? That's weird. DARREN. DARREN. Anyway. Er, this is why you named yourself sweet color. That's exactly because go all go. The question they have, but it's a really like this one. It's a really simple one. What was each of Yols first painted model? Oh, I can see mine on the website. It's a space marine. Mori's the Imperium. Yeah. This is your void. Void night. Yeah, yeah. That was mine and by some miracle we still got him probably the most valuable miniature we have. One thick coating. Well, that's right. Well, you guys mine was a an orc warhammer orca and never seen games workshop before. It's been our first game to the UK. And my walk past the shop. And I was like, what's this? It's cool. And I'm a wind inside and they said, oh, this is what the bad news. You want to paint one? I'm sorry. I'll give it a go. And it was a was an orc boy. But from from warhammer. Fantasy. One of the six edition ones. Six edition ones. Yeah. And it has two shoppers. Yeah. And it's he's got a like a coin sort of hat like a smith hat top thing on it. Yeah. And I stuck a skull on the shoulder. I don't know why I just will be funny. And yeah, there was the first man she ever painted. That's in the cabinet as well. Yeah. And the first one. Yeah. I don't know, Jane. The first minute that I ever painted was a. So I think it was an ultramarine. It was probably the second edition box that I got. Which thing? That was probably a ultra big first. But the first, yeah, the first minute that I remember actually like painting that I remember painting. Was a Liz and man Croxie go. Yeah. The first minute that I were born for the first shop as well. And a special deal on and it was ten pounds got you a starter paint set, a five pound gift voucher and a copy of white dwarf. So only there I paid my ten pounds. I got my five pounds gift voucher and I put two more pounds towards it. I spent 12 pounds and I bought a seven pound Croxie goblist pack. That's pretty cool. It was the one with the axe above his head and the big spiky tail. Yeah. Amazing. One of the old fifth edition Liz men. Yeah. Incredible. So first I wouldn't be able to tell you I have an idea. But I'm going to say something probably Lord of the Rings because like when I was a kid I loved it right. Your favourite for you, Joe. Yeah. Actually dad getting you some Lord of the Rings. Yeah. So probably something like that. Yeah. But if not I guess it would be that all that one that in most. Other one that we've been together. Yeah. That was good. That's really my way of reading. On the realm. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. It was a moment. It was fine. Wow. We've always alone for a few minutes. Yeah. There we've had our time. Sweet while the lovely. Right. Next question. Armchair warlord. Ah. I know some of them. Yeah. Let's walk over the armchair. Yeah. I have some photos of the GW Neckroes Finks model with a black with green marbling effect. Yeah. I've looked for similar techniques in other tutorials but can't find any can the team point me in the direction of a tutorial which would help me on this or can Duncan give some tips on how to achieve the effect. Thank you. Interesting thing to do in a video. One time. We did do marble didn't we? We did. So what do we paint? It was just like a title was. Yeah. Yeah. So the technique can be the same. Yeah. The technique can be the same. It's just the color palette is different. So I do it black to begin with. I'd. Stipple. A dark green on there. Some like Y-Vearn green. And then for the actual veins. I'd be jumping up towards more Jade kind of colors. So it's to fly Jade green. You know, cool green stuff like that. But applied the same sort of way. You definitely want to have some photo reference to the real thing. And it's like a like a process of putting the paint in the vein lines in there really. But like with fire effects and glow effects, it won't really look right until you get towards the end. So you just got to be brave and you know, trust the process. See you through. Try try to test model first. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do one more. One more. Right. Marcus Aralius. Here he is. He's back. The Emperor. It is I Marcus Aralius. I really like that. He's embraced this character. I saw the For of Idry named himself. Marcus Aralius. So funny. With the exception of Victoric's guard, the best squad kit in all of 40k. Totally unbiased. It seems every single character just gets a sword. Even Metarius, the sergeant in the secret level episode, got a sword on his model when he used an axe in the episode. That's very true. If GW was to use some more variety in the Malay weapon department, which would you like to see more of favorite sword in more gaming from each of you? Yeah. See, I like them having swords because out of all the close combat weapons, the sword is the one that's just for combat. And so that's why it has that defensive thing about it, like that, you know, in heraldry, whereas an axe derives from the tool, right, the same with a hammer and all these things. Even a spear is a hunting weapon, but a sword is only for war. So that's why I think they tend to use that. And I like that. That's a very deep answer. There you go. That's just like that. It's just very reminiscent, isn't it? Yeah. It's very dangerous. I was thinking, there you go. Red that. That's very good. You've learned a little bit about military history there. Yeah, but I don't want it. I want fantasy. I'd stick a big morning star mace on his fist. No, you can't. I thought I was going to say, I want a morning star. How would you lose, just like you did Lord of the Rings marathon? You lost out on great. I want space rooms with with whips, fibro whips. You're awesome. What's the link shot? Oh, what? Slingshot. Slingshot. Slingshot, I've got to replace both guns with a massive blunderboss. Oh, blender bus. Yeah. Blunderbolter. Blunderbolter. Blunderbolter. Blunderbolter. A blender. A blender. Or weapon would be that would be. Blunderbatter. I think a bearded axe looks really cool. That's the sort of like Viking style axe that has a hook style blade on it. Especially with a slightly curved haft on it. It just looks really mean and really vicious some reason. So the ones that the modern chaos marauders are got. I think they're really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very cool. What do you think, Jack? What's a cool weapon? Space combat. A ray gun. A very short ranged. Oh, my God. Let's combat weapon, Jack. Space combat. I don't know. A kitchen knife. A kitchen knife. A button knife. A button knife. A button knife. A button knife. A spoon. Why a spoon, Jack? There's a blank media. A ray gun. A ray gun. A ray gun. You can put your ball out. Of course, I know. I'm happy you could hit people if I'll choose a ray gun. Yeah, but like I'm smacking them with it. Yeah. It's all good. Of course. I think it's a very good idea. Imperial Guard the officers star sword that had the basket held and stuff. I think they look really cool Yeah, you just want to be big and too handed that you can just pummel so long So living in a closet. Yeah, I was gonna say the whole town has Yeah, you're just not missing around of the sword that I want long sword Yeah, just like clout this is like a thick oh that yeah, that's stupid me Cleaver Cleaver's me cleaver's maybe awful you want to tell me this is gonna cause terror yeah, not gentlemen Do you make a good point Jack when you eat that sword right if you think about horrific things that thing would do Shopping somebody with a thing like that That was right. I got like clowns buster sword if I fancy right. Oh me. Yeah, we'll try and swing that for one night Yeah, goodness gracious. That's gonna be like a horror movie You're not gonna have fun This won't be over quickly Feel small the handle is on that sword as well. It's 20. Yeah, yeah, there's no counterweight 20. I hope you guys seen eyeing clad Yes, yes, yes, yes, because there's a bit where he gets out the two handed sword on that and the first guy hits with it He hits him in the shoulder and the sword right down the sword gets stuck when it reaches his hitbone I think a whole budget went on that that one effect. Yeah, it's like in game of homes when the mountain chops the head off Is stallion and it's just ghost. Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. Yeah, that's very cool He is the mountain. He's the mountain. He's the mountain. He's the strength that he's behind the blow is my house The thing it really bugs me about swords in miniature games, right is when they do a two handed sword and the handle is about as long as the blade of the sword Suddenly that's like really weird. It makes it look really Strange that portion. Yeah, I don't like when I Did you know I don't like I don't like Kaila Ren's lightsaber sword all right with the Crossguard Crossguard I like there was different but I think that we're going for the same effect that Darth Maul having a double-ended like Yeah, what's gonna have when he when he picked it on? I like the top first and It's all like like looks like it's gonna be like the Like badly made and stuff. Yeah, yeah, I'd probably have more thoughts about that life Saber but I got distracted by the rest of the movie Just I yeah, I thought we want to get a great villain not Yeah, all of the guns on that man ship out of the skies somehow I'd have to raise first shot takes up three tie fighters with one shot. Oh, yeah, let's move on before I start I can see James already rolling his eyes at me It's not in the ring That's fighting talk. That is seriously We'll have one day in the saloon. I'd spit on the pontoon and shoot you Would you cuz I've got a different opinion on the film. Yeah, let's do that. You can bring your get Elbow I'll bring my massive sword Anyway, you know what you can always tell it's the end of the podcast What are we doing next week? You're now you're back from an Epticon. Um, we are we're doing some Starcraft Starcraft Yeah, yeah, yeah, so people are asking me when I was over there. You're gonna paint some Starcraft models Yes, we are human since I'm a witness. Yeah, so I'm a Marine A marine and a zirgling is what we're gonna do. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to check with my wife to make sure that I paint the colors correctly She knows more than I do about this. Why is why is it yeah? I love to do his bank all the weekend this weekend We're enjoying a long Easter break Yeah, that's very cool. And then we got salute salute. We can't right come and see us at salute. Yeah Yeah, salute and then and then yeah, as you said lead up to UK games x-bow. Yeah, the peak Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Finish for the high. Yes. Yeah, haven't done it. Yeah, that's hope Expectations exactly We're gonna have an exciting time at X-bow so come and see us there to yeah, no do that do that I love to check out those Starcraft Tutorials next week and do swing by the social media pages because I'm gonna put up a lot of pictures of Duncan Strip to Adapt Con obviously showcasing a lot of those boards that he talked about judging Which is super cool, and I'm definitely highlight the ones that you chose as well as the winners Which would be cool and then don't forget that the Academy challenges are moving away from the forum on the on the academy Website and I'm moving over to discord. Yes, and that is the members only discord But if you're not a member there is also the Dunkin Rose Painting Academy official discord page. Yeah. Yeah There we go. There we go. Yeah. Well, thank you everyone for listening. Good to have you back, Duncan Good to be back and thanks again to all the Academy members I spoke to at Adapt Con and also to you folks who listen to the podcast too Hello, oh just before we go right I do have to mention that I forgot this last week at Chill Con The amount of people that came up to me and and and gave me a stern a stern looking at or talking to about not liking all of the rings But thanks so much for the guys you came out and went oh I've bought loads of boroughs and badges miniatures because of you talking about it on their podcast I thought it was amazing. I can't remember your names. I think you gave me your names. You just it was in passing but That's awesome. Yeah, that's my some more badges Right, that's it. I'm done. We're done. Mm-hmm. See you next time. It's a wrap Bye