Episode 24 - Barry's Journey

(upbeat music) Welcome back to the ASN Dad Chat. We're a podcast and community dedicated to making sure no ASN Dad in Scotland has to walk this path alone. Our goal is simple, real talk, real honesty, and sharing our own experiences to help you navigate the system. Whether you're an army top group already, or just finding us now, you've got a seat at the table. And just a reminder, we aren't experts, we're just kids. And this is just experiences and opinions, not medical advice, not legal advice. Then let's go on with the chat today. - Hello and welcome to ASN Dad Chat, Andy. And this week, we're gonna try something a little bit different. As your normal user lets talk about different topics. This time we're looking to do a bit more of a deep dive into one of our dads. We've got Barry with us here today who you noticed from previous audio recordings that you've had. Well, this is the face of the audio. As you might be able to tell, we're not in our usual recording studio. We are in the wonderful pop in and play. Thank you very much to Robin for letting us use this instead of our usual Paisley video to try our first video recording session. So yes, something about different this week. We're gonna find out all about Mr. Barry. - Yes. - Might sound a bit different. I might look a bit different. - Definitely. - All of a sudden. If it has been slow, please. - Yes, I might say this on this one. But yeah, it was worth that try. It's good to take this opportunity to try something different. So here we go. And how does it feel a bit volunteering to be the first person to be interrogated? - Vulnerable, vulnerable. - But yeah, it's something I think we'll be doing quite regularly if it's not to do. - It won't always be you. - It won't always be me and I think I think once I'm, we'll switch up a bit. I think after an hour people will be fed up with me. So I'm all right with that. And we'll get on to the other guys. Definitely. So yeah, do you want us to go as a bit of a background first of all, just to be who you are? - Who I am, who are you? - I'm Barry. - And Barry. - Four kids before Brody. What was Barry like? - What were you like, people? - What was I like? I was really quite looking back, quite carefully, quite, probably quite selfish. And I just just do whatever I wanted, whatever you wanted to do. - Whatever I wanted. And I don't know how I can do all that. And I was playing football probably. - Four, five days a week, working five, six days a week. I'd go with Jim at times occasionally. I was playing in a wedding band up and down the country. - Just the usual things, everyone would be just the usual things everybody. And I thought I genuinely don't know if I can't keep my eyes when I'm passing in a court like this. - Yeah. - I think, yeah, once we kind of started doing, obviously moved house and got engaged and got a bit more down that path, we kind of settled down a wee bit, and gradually older, say, official interests, kind of faded away. - What'd you miss the most of all those hours? Is that anything that you actually still do? - Not really, no, no, no, no, the occasion of the football, but that's pretty much it. - No more wedding band. - Pretty much no more jam band, no more jam band. - No more jam band, no more jam band, no more jam. - Cornering my peers, I'm not a lot of jam. (laughs) But yeah, it's the things priority's changed. - I'm sure. - Little people come along and take over essentially, so. - Definitely. - Yeah. - So in terms of obviously, you can always let everyone know that you're mad at Katie, you've got Sun Brody, but even before Brody, Brody, what did you expect bad life to be like? What was your kind of initial perception? And I guess at the same time was like, did you always plan to have Brody? Was it more than that or what was your kind of life plans? - This might come across as a real surprise from what you know of me so far in personal life and in the podcast, but didn't really have any organized. - Yeah, just like I always look at my kind of, once one stick in a house thing was sorted, you know, a place to live and it was sort of fit for, for bettering up a kid. It was that was kind of what I wanted to do, but I never really had any say expectations or anything like that. - So when you found out that you were going to be at that, what was kind of gone through your head? Were you obviously said it was unplanned? So I'm assuming you were surprised at it. What was going through your head at that point? - I don't think I said it was unplanned. I mean, like that. They came back story with that. Katie has endometriosis. So we were kind of, again, didn't say any kind of, or I certainly didn't say any kind of hard and fast expectations of it. Obviously she went through a lot, made a quite a kind of, obviously I'll leave you at the pain of that, just to try and make that whole process as straightforward as possible, as important as just to try and essentially conceive as in when the time came and we kind of got to a point that we were kind of, whatever happens happens, type of thing. And not long after that, she would go in for a surgery, I dropped her off at the hospital, went to work, and got a phone call about an hour later. Saying, I'm not getting the surgery. What's happening? She was like, are you going on your own? Yeah, I'm pregnant. I'm like, wow. - Okay. - So that was definitely not what you expected, didn't you go to the hospital? - No, I mean, that was a kind of standard urine test before surgery, as I believe is kind of common practice. And I think it was, again, typical of us, we don't do things the typical way, but yeah, we're delighted, we're obviously very happy about it. But again, because we had envisaged things, being quite difficult and being a bit of a process, we were kind of not cynical or pessimistic, but just kind of a kind of really grounded and sort of let's not get too ahead of ourselves and sort of take your time on it and then it's time went on we kind of excited. - Yeah, but not that we were absolutely buzzing to begin with. - Yeah, it was great, it was exactly what we were. And what we're hoping for, it's somewhere down the line, it just came out and I'm expected. We don't expect the time in a very unexpected way. - How long was this? What is it, Jordy? - Brody, he's just on seven. - Just on seven a couple of weeks ago, so he's just started primary. - Yeah, same flies, yeah. - It does, it does indeed. - So in terms of Brody and kind of early days, was there any point that you can remember where you were starting to have signs or did it come as a shock? Or again, was it because it was your first and only child? It was just kind of, (laughs) - We had, I was on, I had my suspicions about just resetting things kind of quite early on, to be honest. It's, when Brody was born, he was 10 pounds, when he was born, let his height and weight are lengthened, as they call it in the kinesental thing, was like 97% and his head circumference was over 100. So he was big, he's like a big, a big boy type of thing. So we found it quite difficult to, to sort of gauge where he should be because the kinesis size were usually, like if he was 18 months, the kinesis size were like, nearly three, and stuff like that. So it was, that was sort of, but even at kinesis months old and stuff like that, are probably closer to a year, I didn't feel like he was making kind of eye contact. - Yeah, okay. - And you said you've had like nieces and nephews and things, was that the kinexperience you had before and? - Yeah, he's got a cousin, Emily, who is five months older. Then he is, six months old, and five months older. - Six months older, yeah. - Right, he much, that again, that was, that was as I've never got around because Brody was walking before she was, I believe, or they were at that stage when, about the same time at the very least. So that was, obviously, a kind of positive scene, but Emily was like dead, interactive, and dead kind of chatty and communicative and all that, and like picking things up, play really, really intuitive and really intelligent. But a lot of that is, it's the kind of typical sort of, yeah, but that's what boys do, and that's what girls do, and boys are a bit more active, and a bit more practical. - Come eventually. - Yeah, exactly. So there was a wee bit of these wee kind of, crutches, are we pacifying things that, that kind of delayed the inevitable in terms of what we were, what we were doing? And I remember the time, like, speaking to a healthcare worker and explaining about, like, not really, not really answering his name, not really following you when you were pointing in things like that. - Yeah, I remember we had that at an appointment with a healthcare worker, and I had sort of expressed this at a conservancy and stuff like that, and she was like, "It's really too early to tell." And I'm like, "This is what I'm doing." - Six months, did you say? - Yeah, probably, probably closer to a year, I think, at that point. But yeah, they were, it's one of those, like, that I'll do this repeatedly as well, like, times go by, I have the idea that it's just one thing or, as is my day to day life, to be honest with you. So, yeah, not dismissive as such, but I think that when it was during COVID and stuff, like, nobody was really, like, a lot of kids weren't hitting their communication meals, don't you, and stuff like that. So, I think that was something they were, like, don't look too much in and don't worry too much about it, type of thing. Was it both of you? Was it your cell fan creative at both C that there was delays? Or was it one of you that was more, kind of, proactive in saying that there was something here? - I don't even think it was necessarily proactive. I think I had a wee bit more, I used to teach guitar at a youth center, and one of the, one of the kids I taught a couple of times was on the autism spectrum. His dad actually pulled me outside before the first lesson I had with him and just explained he wouldn't, he wouldn't make eye contact but he's not being ignorant, he's just not comfortable with it and a couple of other things and it just always kind of got me thinking of that point, like I had no idea, I was probably 18, 19 or something like that, I didn't know my idea about that at all, sort of thing, but it was something that was always going to stop with me and that was, you know, the weak kind of things I was seeing to be traits I was seeing to be tied into that a little bit. We once the world can all start to open up again, we were trying to get them involved and it's been anything that's possible just to kind of increases opportunity and is it closer to the socialisation and stuff like that? It was a, I mean, can I focus? We took them to, which was still outdoors at that point because of, because of Covid. It's probably 20 odd kids, probably, yeah, from maybe 18 months to three type I think and seeing everyone sort of how the other kids interacted with the lesson and kind of forward instructions and engaged with it and he was just a way of doing his own thing. And at first I really kind of, well, I didn't struggle as such because again, I had that at my point that like he's younger than these kids. He's got a bit of a fear, you think that you should be doing more and it's kind of like you forget that he is actually younger. Probably the other way about that, that I was kind of almost like putting the concerns to the back of my head because like he just looks like he should be doing the same thing as he was younger. But then I'd seen kids like a lot smaller than him kind of as time went on and kind of picking things up a wee bit bit and stuff like that. So that was when I kind of started to realise it and probably at the same time kind of initially started to struggle with like I really wanted him to take part in it because like that's, you're still love that kind of cut for that sort of, that's what we're here to do. You know, all the other kids are doing this, we should be doing this type of thing which was more for me than for him. Obviously, I think it's a new battle when you're a dad, do you think is that all the idea and I'm going to take my son to football and everything. He's going to come and he's going to enjoy this and obviously as you've said that you don't mean to be pushing him into it but you're kind of like you're going to love this, go get involved. And obviously looking back now, you're obviously not the reasons why. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's it. And kind of not not long after that, we had this sort of next meeting with the health visitor at whatever age that was I want to say, want to see 30 weeks possibly, 30 week assessment, that sounds right, doesn't it? Very specific. I'm sure that was the anyway. And that's when they were kind of, yeah, we're starting to see what your concerns are. And they did a sort of, I don't know if there's a name for the assessment, it's kind of think you probably, probably know. But it was just a series, a series of questions a lot of different. Can you do this? Does it have this, does it have that type of thing? You know, can you say a certain amount of words? Can you ask for such and such a thing? Can you tell you if he's heartened? Our answers were all over the place because the way the questions are kind of geared up, it's almost like in certain sections you'll, you'll have an answer like, yeah, yeah, you can do that, you can do that, you can do that. And then the next time you talk about it, it's not weird. It's some stuff we were like, yeah, you can do that. Like, could you tell you if something was heartened, we were like, no, you could tell us he was, we could tell you if he was sore, but you wouldn't be able to tell us what. And then like, can you say this? Can you say this? Does he have a certain amount of words? I'm like, yeah, was that the main one's assessment at all? I don't know that. That was then the thing I had my head on it, when I said, you'll probably know what it is. But yeah, they kind of went through all that and it was kind of clear at that point. And to be clear, that's the purpose of that assessment. But like, not quite following the path that it probably should. And the one question that came up, it was like, does we really have a true friend? And I just walked me out, I just let all my God. That was kind of hard, that was sort of right. Okay, that kind of breaking, I absolutely. And it was obviously his best friend was his cousin, and obviously that's perfectly fine. But at the same time, just this thing's open back up again, was when as we kind of aggressive tendencies and is hitting, kind of started. And because Emily was the same he has, she had very kind of curly hair as well, and that like sensitive eyes for her red, red, red, blue type of thing. So that kind of doubly hard is because that is his best friend. But yeah, so it was tricky, it was tricky. But the same thing was there was an element early to the late bit, okay, we know what's happening here, we know we're not going to have, we know we're not creating a situation in our head, we're not, you know, capacitive eyes in our head. Like there is, there is some sort of force out there in those, those kind of places we can, we can go and kind of, can I move to from there? And I guess the thing for me is, when was the, through this film period, were you thinking autism or just something, and it kind of at what point did they, did someone actually see a tear kind of autism? I had autism on my head from, from that first conversation with the healthers up, I had, I had it on my head before, that just probably through a wee bit of ignorance at the same time, like I, he's no good at contacts, so I must be that type of thing, but it is a fairly common trait, although it wasn't that, that didn't exist before, I was exactly, exactly, but it, it's eye contact had improved, kind of, from, from that point as well, so, but there was a lot, other things kind of keeping in particular, the communication type of thing, and like the impulse control and the, the aggression and whatnot, front and up. Yeah, yeah, I'm remembering. Again, it's so hard to tell, put specific dates and things, so I'm exactly the same, but from your kind of, this point to when you were actually getting the kind of, a special diagnosis, how long did that take for you? And was that something that you were really wanting to get for them, that you were kind of frustrated or taken so long, or you kind of knew, or you know, was autistic, so, because the main, the main thing was speech and language, and I don't know if it's the, about miscommunication, sorry, so the first referral was to speech and language, and I don't know if that's fairly standard practice, whether it's a, you know, a thing in my local authority or, or what, I don't know, but it was the right sort of step for him, so after that, that 30-week assessment, we got referred to speech and language, and that was, I mean, yeah, really, really kind of helpful, but not in the way that I thought it was going to be, because I had it in my head that they were going to come in, work with Brody and teach them things, and that's just not how it goes at all, where they teach you how to, basically just teach us to kind of, yeah, essentially give us the tool we need to support him, but like I remember sort of early, early on, like one of the kind of earlier sessions, we were pretty much getting killed by the woman, entirely, in the right, entirely, in the right way, she was kind of like, what do you want from this, what do you want from, from speech and language, and you kind of like get a first year as I, or just fast, that's all, yeah, pretty much like, see, we have our buttons in it, yeah, that's kind of like, yeah, to it, and I, yeah, I don't have an answer, I was not, but I don't mean, just, from to make some sort of improvement in this communication, so that what does improvement look like for you, just maybe better than three months ago, six months ago, kind of thing, but that's, that's the answer she wanted from us, essentially that's, it's to kind of challenge your expectations on it, and that's, we as well, and to where they say like, it's almost a speech and language therapy that you need to be able to put the work in, because as much as speech and language therapy was for Brody, yeah, and it's the same with us for action that they probably it's, it's more the parents that get taught, get rather than the kid that's been a case of, because I don't know about you, the same, the techniques that they taught us, it wasn't, they weren't saying action has to do this, or he has to do that, it was more, like the most basic things that you ever thought of, it was like, give them a bit of time to process what you're asking, don't, don't answer your own questions, that's all that stuff, you're like, this big, perfect sense, yeah, but it's also like, it's so, so basic, but it's like a revelation at the same time, I remember, there was a wee book that we kind of got, and it was um, try saying it was like, go outside, get your coat, or something like that, and break it down into a wee-side chunks initially, rather than, right okay, let's go outside, we'll get your coat, we'll get your shoes on, but I'm like, well that makes the, you know, we're going to totally overwhelm it, the kid, so yeah, that, that was, that was quite interesting, and something she said in the back of that as well, like if you, if you want, because the whole point is like, if you're not going to put the work in, they're not going to be able to wave a magic on this, and that was probably the first time that we kind of realised like, this is, this is the way things are going to be, and this is like, we have to put the, have to put the graft in here, and everything's about him from, from kind of, obviously, it would be anyways easier to help, but it's, the focus needs to be there, and it needs to be a kind of collaborative joint effort, I think, um, but something she said in the back of that, in terms of those wee progress, which is like, either write down or focus on what he can do now, and then in three months time, look back at what he can do now, compare to what he can do then, and just kind of keep that going, and follow that 100%, like that's probably still, like, one of, if not them, the best piece of advice we've had, it's just to focus on those little, those little gains, because if you, you'll never, you'll never feel like, you know, of the, the kind of goods with it, yeah, because there's so many, not negatives, but there's so many doing points and. if you look back, as you say three months, six months, nine months to your child, then to compare to now, there'll be so many more positives, but if you're just living day by day, you're just going to kind of keep going downhill, thinking that way, but if you, and I've always wanted to try and give a log of all the kind of great things that he does and how he's gone. And I know I'd be able to look through it and be like, there's things he's doing now that I could never dream he would ever be able to do. And it is just sometimes trying to give yourself a bit of praise for what you've actually done, give him a bit of praise, to focus on what he can do. But yeah, it's hard to be positive sometimes. It's something that's something I've always said about, like, it's difficult to kind of, there are, it's obviously challenging all the time, but one of the rewarding things about the kind of life we live, essentially, is like those little bits of progress are always so much more evident. You've just got, you've got to click on it, you've got to focus on that and celebrate these moments and celebrate the progress as you would with any kid, essentially. So it's important for them as well as your own sanity, I think. No, 100%. So obviously you've spoke about that was the kind of first step in the diagnosis, not with speech and language therapy. What was next from that? And was it a long wait for in-finals? And all usually you need to see, like, a video tracing and things. From there we, it was a hidden test, which again, I think is fairly standard practice. But he was getting a lot of hidden infections at that point, or fairly regular hidden infections at that point. We hear him test went fine, but they were asking questions, like, and I'd say, that's something that's happened a great regular. Well, that's probably how many, right, that's more than what it should be. I think I've got a whole point to think, like, oh, maybe they're being a hearing issue. That's why you're doing some sort of thing. This is going to pull everything together, and so I ended up eventually at E&T. And, yeah, hearing was in throat, and the doctor, but his tonsils are massive. Right, okay, so that's one tick, and then a cross right next to it, I think, so. And another one of the kind of saving graces through all this, as much as, you know, things could be challenging, like, he slept really, really well. It is sleeping as always, he was kind of 12 plus hours, and I straight through, no very little deviation from it. Like, that was kind of it, which was sometimes the days could be challenging, but at least he got that kind of guaranteed respite. And then, yeah, his tonsils are really quite big. So, chances are he's not getting a great quality of sleep, and that's why he sleeps so long. Oh, great. Really positive, I'm so sad, I totally way to take the silver lining off my cloud kind of thing, so. And then he got a felt of a tonsilite to me, which took years to come round. But, yeah, tonsilite seems to be a common one. Yeah, I actually had the same tonsilite to him. I didn't know a deck to me, as well, which I had never heard of in my life. I think he did get his anilite, I didn't know how to have any grownups as well, which is, I've never read anything about the connection, the link between enlarged tonsils, and adenoids, and grommets, and kids on the spectrum. But it seemed like something that we went to, it seemed like everybody was in the way at last for the tonsils out. It's hard to tell, because you're kind of like, is it one of these things in the checklist where someone comes in, we're kind of suspected of autism, is it like, like, check their throat and death, and whereas we're neurotypical kids, they probably would check him assuming. This potentially something that's quite common, but just doesn't get you there. And see, like, going back to the full thing about how it's pretty standard, they'll check their ears, see if there's a kind of problem there. How, see when it came about that he's hearing was absolutely fine. Was it any part of you that was kind of gutted, but not, if that makes sense, because you're kind of like, you've got this in your head kind of layer, it's like, oh well, if he's got an issue with his hearing, that could be the problem. There could be a silver bullet here, because everything, or was that? I was like, no, you're wrong, check again. Yeah, I mean, it would have been nice, further to be an answer. But again, I don't know if it's just a lack of foresight for me in general, but I just didn't really pin too much on it. There was a wee part of me, I'll be right, okay, for this, this could give us the answers. Yeah, we've got more questions at the end of the day, but yeah, it's not so much gutted, but like, it's not that, yeah, onto the next thing. Let's keep hunting for, for, for answers, but they don't, they don't come. They don't come? So I guess we're going to be going to like, for Brody, was he, did you go in in person, or was it, I know somebody who had things online and stuff, or we actually weren't really involved in it at all. It was basically driven entirely by, like, our, our speech and language, some is brilliant, like amazing, like got, got very, very involved, took a lot of phone calls from me that she probably weren't really anything to do with her, but she was just my point of contact. She was our, kind of, support system, essentially. So she, kind of drove the diagnosis, and I don't know if it's a permanent thing, or it was something that was done at that time purely in the back of COVID, but it was almost like a fast track diagnosis thing. So if it was like a kids with, kind of, fairly typical straight, not straightforward, but fairly common traits that they would essentially present their case to like a fast track diagnosis panel type of thing. And it was very much like Brody can I fit that, that correct area, like, not very communicative, occasional problems, but impulse control, love's numbers, love's colors, blah, blah, blah, and that was, that was kind of, sort of, yeah, basically, that was, that kind of open and shut case basically. So that's, that was, yeah, that was, that was that, essentially, so we got a phone call to say, like, that's, that's a minute through. So it was almost like, this is going to confirm. We already know often everything. How did that? So obviously, so what did you do at that point? Between two and three, maybe four, maybe four, between two and, between one and five, between newborn and seven, definitely. Yeah, I would say probably three, four. Right. And if you've done that, yeah, probably four. So obviously, at this point, you've obviously known for say about three years, you're like, yeah, but when it comes round to him, getting that official diagnosis, like, how do you feel at that point? Initially, not any different because what they'd essentially said to us were like, if you're on that pathway, essentially all the supports that would be available to you after diagnosed should be open to you now. So there wasn't a great deal of change for us. It was almost right. Okay. We know almost like we know it's not something else that that was kind of really not other things, because as you do, you, you Google things and you, you sort of, yeah. You're looking for answers when they're isn't necessarily any. And yeah, so it never really made any much of a difference until we got it through. Yeah, once I got it through and writing and saw the word disability. And I don't know why, but that just I was, yeah, just in here. And I don't know why, because it's not. I think it home how limiting this might be for him is in this time goes on, whereas I am very much kind of a look at today, looking tomorrow, looking at three months. Yeah. And that's kind of how I live. It's a difficult thing to see, because as you said, like, if you are just kind of very much live in the moment, and you do have that, and it's usually quite a big report to be like, this is limitations. And there's usually things like, I don't know if you had any elements of disability and I don't know where they had to when it was like global development delay, the usual sort of stuff, because when you read these things in black and white, and it's kind of like document about your son, you realize. So a lot of time when you're raising Brody, it's just normal to you eventually. Well, that's just the way he is. Yeah. But when they put down just so you see that word disabled, he just totally changed his thing for you. It was something that was never, and again, I don't know if that's going back to the kind of delicate way, the sort of deal with things, but it was just never. It was never a word that was used to him. I think it was never something I really, and it's not obviously a terrible word or anything like that, but it was just it came as a. It was a bit of a sort of great, okay, that's, we've got to say, this is you know, yeah, that's gonna. As much as it helped me, it was going to rate, okay, this is this is our way we are, there was no kind of denial of early enough like that, because it's not going anywhere, you need to get on board with it and find the best. Yeah, find the best way to assess him and give him whatever he needs to, to try really can. And I guess on that is kind of a good one to move on to is, how long do it take for you to kind of accept that there's essentially, you can't fix it. You can't fix it and it's more changing that mindset to be like, okay, it's grotesque world now, we need to kind of fit into it and help. And is that something that you've found difficult to accept at any point? I think, with everything else in my life that is like, I need to fix it, I need to get control of this, I need to do this, I need to do that like this. I just, I don't think I had that approach and I don't, I don't know why, I don't know if I can, it was not that it wasn't, there wasn't too much looking ahead. But it was sort of what do we need to do to help rather than to fix it and I think, I don't even think that was necessarily a conscious thing, I'm glad that was the way making our mind went on it, because I think if it had. I've had that kind of right I need to fix this thing, I don't struggle, but I don't know there was a lot of the kind of treats I had the more I read into, there was a lot of the treats that I kind of saw on myself and I think that was probably, I've not thought of going out until I'm saying it now, but I think there was, I looked a lot more into myself at that point, you were kind of going through the diagnosis with the results. Yeah, yeah, essentially, yeah, and trying to understand myself a little bit, to help me understand him better, as well as even down that thought process, like understanding the things that he would do that would trigger me, and not necessarily this mum type of thing, because I would be hypersensitive to that type of thing or whatever, which I think is again, I would recommend that day and day, just look at yourself, look at how you can deal with things better, because you've got control over what you do, whereas you don't necessarily have control over what they do, and that's another big part of it as well, myself and Katie are very much kind of worried about the things you can control, and there's a lot of other things that we have control of his environment, we have control over things that are, sometimes you don't have control of his environment, but we have an element that we can control to sort of what he does, where he goes, all these kind of things, and focusing on name rather than, you know, can we make him talk, can we make him do this, can we make him do that, and letting him be himself while, you know, a few shows of interest in something, trying to redirect them where you can, or something and you're all constructive old, things like that. Yeah. And obviously we're talking about the full way of kind of fitting into his life and everything, obviously adapt, his environment to do what's best for him, how did you find it in terms of kind of breaking down those kind of societal norms or expectations we've spoke before about things like, obviously we've had some podcast before and he talks about how his children would sometimes want to desert first, and he'd be like, "No, no, you can't do that." And then you kind of realise that, "Well, why not?" And obviously there's a lot of things to that, and I realised that it's kind of, though that, they'll kind of make us ask these questions to ourselves, "Well, why can't we do it that way?" Did you find these sort of changes easy to make or did you have any sort of anxiety around like, "No, no, no, this is how we're supposed to do things?" Or. Not really, I think we're both quite stubborn that that kind of thing didn't really have too much of an impact that just kind of is what it is. You do still, we still come up against the kind of the usual cana, it doesn't look autistic or like, "It's okay, and then all kids do that, and then when you combine all the different things that all kids apparently do, they don't all do all of those things, that's, you know, there's something, there's something different here." But yeah, the main challenge in terms of other, you know, people in the outside looking in was, "If you, if you how, that was all really sort of difficult, because the annoyed yourself, you know, frustrated that Brody, but for doing it, and then you get more frustrated yourself, because you can tell exactly why he's done it, and half the time you're almost in the footmen." That's the reason you have to then react to show, "I need to tell him off, because I'm not in this crowd, but you know why it's happened, because otherwise you're thinking your head, you're like, "Well, why is he not telling his son off, because that's not the right thing to do, and then it does take a while to just be a little, doesn't matter, all the people think, which is kind of much easier said than done, probably, to pay them to do that, or you don't have any lessons to do, but, um, so yeah, it's obviously when you're around, I think it's hardest when you're around other people, if you could just have a world where it's just you and your kid, things would be very, very difficult and tiring, but it almost you wouldn't have that expectation on you, but obviously I can remember we had a few of us were at the Celtic Sensor Room, when a few of us went, um, it's part of Autastic, which was great to manage to go and take the kids, but I know that it was quite difficult for you, because as the kind of stage of Brody was in, yeah, it was, I can't, it was just a small room, and it was, it was a, like, don't get me wrong, places amazing, like, it's an amazing thing they do, um, and it's, it was really well organized, really well put together, like, all that kind of thing, the game was not great, but it was just, that was kind of the restrictions, and there's a wee bit of, you know, when he got these restrictions or got these ideas in his head, it's very difficult to kind of stop and type of things, so that was another one of those, I think the, I think the, the parent was very surprised about it, and again, I kind of took the same approach to that as, as I do with, as I did with anybody that, that I had to sort of apologise on his behalf too, was, you know, I'll, I'll explain the situation, um, you know, really sorry, like, I mean, it's really, it's really difficult to predict, it's obviously nothing personal, you know, just having to be there in this space or whatever, like, I'm really sorry, we'll take him out of the way, and they're response to me at that point, I just never really put too much, kind of, because some people will be like, don't worry about it, but it's the amount of people that like, don't worry about it, he's probably, or something like that, like, it's alright, don't worry, um, and some people were, live it, and, I can't blame it, but I can't do anything about that now, I've explained it like, I'm taking him away, anyway, I'll get him out your way and blah, blah. It's hard to believe that it can be that, obviously, it's definitely, because the kids don't know anything, so I think like, it's something that you can do the parents that make things much harder in terms of their reaction, I find. I think a lot of that is, is probably your perception of it as well, like, I think you've got, uh, we actually had that we had one at, at the nursery, the Brody town, I basically just dropped Brody off, and he was sometimes distressed when we get in, and then the guy, Brody, how straight away, and the guy almost gave Brody in a trouble, kind of thing, and I was like, I'll let that one slide, because straight away the nursery staff had sort of intervened in like later when I was like, was everything okay there, kind of. I don't, you know, understand this, frustration, and as much as he was giving him a trouble, he sounded like, very, very shocked, at what it kind of, what it happened to you from here, just, just as usual. You remember the Brody, the Brody haircut, so, um, yes, um, and yeah, the nursery were like, he's spoken of apologizing. I don't, you can't blame people for getting, um, getting upset at their bundle of joy being bundled. Yeah. Um, but, yeah, you can't, I think it, it's happened that many times you need to kind of have things going about it, but yeah, you wouldn't leave those otherwise. And there was, there was a long time that we kind of didn't, we didn't really take him anywhere, so it was guaranteed to be like one or two people there. Yeah, that was another part of it, really, the first sort of wee-wale we were at, it was fantastic, it was, he would explore, but he would just be on edge, so, uh, response to him being on a stand by him, the whole time and chase him and follow him everywhere, and like, you know, one's going to relax and have fun with me hanging over the shoulder, so, um, trying to strike that balance and trying to identify, they, they were great as well, they, they'd sort of say, like, when you bring him in, then it's earlier. As much as that was probably a reply to get me help set up and all that kind of thing, I was trying to love that, and that, that walk to treat just kind of, you, you realize at that point, like, it wasn't necessarily the busy environment that was saying them off, it was, like, walking into a busy environment. But yeah, essentially if we took him in and it got busy at random, there was five, he dealt with it. Yeah, he'd go into that busy environment, he didn't want to be dropped in, so it was straight away. Yeah, exactly, it was kind of too overwhelming at first, so it's just, we things like that, you can learn about them as a Steinberg, just when you think you've got them cracked. Something changes, but, yeah. Yeah, you know, that's right. But yeah. Yeah, no, it's not easy. Um, I mean, I guess on that after the kind of diagnosis period, even up until now, what has been the kind of most difficult points for you in terms of whether it's getting access to something, whether it's things, everything that's school, whether it could be sprinting particular, changes in Brody, our different behaviors, what would you say has been kind of your toughest moments? The toughest moment was, was pretty much nursery to school, and that first year of school was really difficult. And I think going back, I would, I would do things differently in terms of we took a lot of professionals kind of at the work, and didn't really challenge it, because we're like, well, they know the system later, they don't even know the system, they know better. We are very new to this, they are very experienced, they've got all the training, blah, blah. But knowing, now, look, I've had a new then, what a new now, I definitely put up more of a more of a fight with that, it's that whole, I've spoken about it for the whole assumption of mainstream thing, it's an inclusive thing, then make sure everybody goes to mainstream school, and we're possible, and the supports are in place, but practically the supports aren't there. Yeah, as much as they should be, they do. Again, like I've said, plenty of times before the individuals do an amazing job, but the system is not set up. Yeah, it shouldn't be a case that they're putting in a totally fail, it's kind of like, you know, it's not right for them, but we'll put them in and see, basically it's like a thinker swim sort of thing, it shouldn't be a case that they have to go through, it's actually a difficult period to then be like, you're right, he does need a bit more support. The way it was phrased to us was like, we've got to try it, it works until it doesn't, and I'm like, it's fairly easy to say that, but that was a really, really struggle, I'll tell it at the start in the end, then it's obviously, he was bringing that home with them as well, it was affecting his sleep, but he was kind of, because he didn't, it's time in on and his other system. skills that he's developed in school is, you know, he can learn a bit more about apathy and he'd, you know, be sympathetic and understanding things like that. So, which is great, but if he still has that lack of impulse, impulse, impulse to stop him out, he would hit out and then he'd feel terrible about it. And then he would be distressed and it would cause him to potentially hit out again and act out right. I don't know. Just because you're in this whole whole thing. And at the school, in fairness to them, we tried everything as teachers and as this deputants and the teaching support staff, they were all amazing, but fundamentally, that's not enough of them to really be able to support that and they can't change, and I mean, stream set, and they can't change 30 pupils in volume in order to suit one. And they were very kind of trying to be as inclusive possible, which again is a great thing, but sometimes it was kind of, you don't have to be taking out of the way, just to kind of let them settle down and stuff like that. What is she doing? Look, it's more exclusion rather than. It never felt like that. They were always very cautious and not. Because we were at, we kind of said, like, he can sometimes, if you try to calm him in that environment, it just builds and builds and makes things worse. Sometimes you're better taken him out of the way. And if you need to hold his hands in that, I call it, it can approach the worker, just hold his hand above his head and just walk with them and that way, the hands and the legs can't do anything in your room where you need to take him. They were like, no, we don't do that. We wouldn't want to do that. We don't want him associated in that room as sort of the room that he would, as Canada Day, and they call that kind of negative connotations and stuff like that, which is, again, the right thing to do, but not necessarily, not necessarily make for him. So I think probably, I think just probably a bit three quarters of the way through family one way, we got asked to speak to them and we kind of knew what it was going to be about. But again, it was that delicate type of tone around of kind of, you know, supports and wraparound support. We can't necessarily, you know, we can do this at the moment, but we don't know what that's going to look like. The further he goes on through school and there might be a chance we have to consider an alternative provision. And I was just like, like, it's just, break this down, make it simple. Are you talking about another school? Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, good. Yeah. Like, that's the same, you agree? Yeah, like, let's explode that kind of thing. But that in itself is a battle. Because there are so many kids that need that support and it's so hard to try and prioritize some and not others. And just in terms of these kids, like, school is obviously so important because obviously other than the parents, like school is the kind of next most involved person in their life. And I know for us personally, like, when action was into school, it's almost kind of that the biggest support because they're the one that's going to be teaching them and they're the one that's going to support with his life. So if you don't get that right, if you're not happy with it and you're thinking, he's unhappy in there, then it's, yeah, it's massive. Yeah. It's devastating. It's devastating. And that's, again, that was, that was, we'd sort of look at even, they were very good with establishing a routine for him. And things that he liked to do and it sort of set his day up. But again, when you've got, I was something like five classrooms on one, let's say you have hundreds and hundreds of people, like, you can't possibly, like, there's no way in on earth that they're going to be able to stick to that routine. Yeah. To the point that they're almost going to back themselves in an corner, I mean, but unless you can do this, and only that's every day. Yeah, we're, you know, we're going to have problems. And so yeah, various other processes that, in fairness of the lead, the deputy head in there pretty much took, took the right head teacher with really supportive as well. So we were, we were very fortunate in the way that was dealt with it still wasn't easy. And it still took time and the, you know, the panels that meet to say these things don't meet that often. So it's almost kind of, we had intended on kind of having, so there's a kind of panel that we go to where they all can assure the force and all that kind of ensure cases and provide different advice. And it was always the same things coming by, we've visual aids. Kind of now and next, which we do with them anyway. And eventually, can I exhausted all the options that they'd basically put together, the application for, for moving up school. But this was all done at kind of the end of primary one. And the last meeting had been. So it was essentially going into summer. You're now coming back here, so for primary two. And I had, again, fixed again, stubborn, hard-headed, whatever you want to call it. I basically decided at that point. Like, I had email head of education from a local authority. You know, here's a situation. This application's coming in and kind of set out. I've obviously done, done, making a research on the background, stuff that I've been set out, kind of what their legal requirements were and what our expectations were. And not to be difficult, not to complain, not to annoy anybody or whatever, but I just miss some's name to be on his desk. And then his mind for, you know, when you're in the time of stress, you're not going to forget this. Yeah, basically, like, this year's, when the application, because I don't think the application was in at that point. But when it does come in, they'll be like, Oh, yeah, I feel that has dad already done everything. But not, not going ballistic about it, not just being like, here's why we at this application, why we feel this is important. Yeah. The application that almost like a cover in there type of thing or our perspective on it. And yeah, very important to not get out of it, because these are people just trying to do the jobs at the end of the day. Plus, if you go out to begin with, you've got nowhere to go. If you want to get out of it, so leave yourself a couple of levels to go up. Do you like the school wise was the hardest thing to get right? That was, yeah, very, very, very difficult. Just because of things like in the run-up to somewhere, things would be different. And, you know, there'd be different things going on, there'd be school with, like, run-up to Christmas, you didn't have to eat these and pan it memes and involved in any of it, because you just wouldn't participate. Yeah. And how did you feel about that? Can I gotten because, like, there was a pan meme and I get it, like, I get why they basically said, like, we don't think he'll be able to go to this and we're like, yeah, I don't think it's still, so you'd probably need them to be kept off that day kind of thing. And I'm like, oh, right, like, because obviously all the support staff are going to be going to that. Yeah, so it can be part of it, but you can't be there either. Yeah, exactly. Essentially, yeah, like, we'd love it maybe there, but since you can't deal with it, there's going to be no deals here. So, and that was kind of, that was a bonus contention of me, I wasn't part of the conversation either. So, like, I had a lot easier on my side of it, than just actively to be like, nah, that's not okay, type of thing, but I get it, like, I get the expectation at the same time, I'd rather get them off than I'd be in a class on his own and somebody's popping in to them every five minutes or whatever. Do you not mean? It's just that thing that, as you said, again, just certain things that just hit us a little bit more when it's kind of like, they're all doing this. Yeah, can't be included. Yeah, all that sort of thing. And as you said, it's not again, it's not as if it's something that's like, we personally don't want Brody involved. Is that thing within you think about the entire class as well? Yeah, can't be like, we need to have this, but it is trying to get it right for everyone. And I wouldn't take it my bad. I mean, like, absolutely not. So, you wouldn't enjoy it. And you love it. I wouldn't enjoy it. I'm not enjoying it. So, I get it, like, I get it from the point of view, but it's just, it just we things like, um, from time to time, but yeah, we eventually were successful with the application, which was great. And they start our primary to, um, to a new school. So, it was about eight months ago now. And it's just been growing, being great. Like, good. Yeah, the point now where I always say that, you said, tell you what, you kind of want to get to a point where school wise, you're still comfortable, you can essentially drop them and actually forget about them for a bit. As bad as that sounds, because you're so comfortable that it's just people that know them. It's a, it's a trust thing. And obviously, like, I think, again, maybe in the way I am, I think Katie probably worried a lot more about it and what we did. That's what it's about for him. And it's away from from us. So, he wasn't attacked. So, that was quite stressful sort of, you know, send him an attack, say with two strangers and see later type of thing. Um, but he just, we had a, we had a post, post-transfer meeting or post placement meeting or whatever I was going to call it. And so it was just his teacher, his new teacher is teacher on the old deputated and his deputy head was just buzzing with how he was getting on. And because that was sport, that was kind of one of the the self-establishment CG she wanted for him type of thing. And she was just like delighted with how and they had went to see him in his current school and all that kind of thing. And so it was all quite, quite well linked together. And then like, the first parents read the teacher and she was basically telling us what, what does they look like and we do this because sometimes he can be like this and, you know, somebody likes this but he doesn't really like this. And she's almost like telling us, essentially talking, telling us things about him. And I'm like, this is she didn't just get, she didn't tell me, like, this is brilliant. This is exactly what I see. You want to, you want to, you want to send your core into that relationship with them? Yeah. And don't leave it wrong. Like, it's two teachers in the first school, like, really got them and they were really, really fond of them and he was really fond of them. But it's, they've got 30 kids to deal with whereas in, I mean, he's got six in his class now type of thing. So it's just how much better, better structure for them. And yeah, it's definitely the right place for them. Yeah. So we've obviously highlighted how important it is to have those community relationships that come to school and people that actually have a relationship and care about Brody. How did you you've eigened in terms of obviously the diagnosis and obviously thanks for having a different from Brody. Do your friends have kids and how did your friends take to, obviously, Brody diagnosis? Have you noticed there's any sort of difference there or, and you feel that you're kind of missed out on or not, not particularly. So yeah, like Mike and I close his friends. I tend to find we sort of, if we're getting together, it's almost like a kind of time away from the family. Do you know what I mean? And that's, they might not see it the same way I don't know, but there's like two, two of my friends, like one when my friends and he's got like, he's got two kids and he's like proper family man type of thing. I think takes to not really that bothered about kids or having kids or whatever and it's, I just kind of sit somewhere in the middle. I love, I love having a kid, a little bit of dad, but you obviously like to get it out of somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, just to be myself and do things you used to, which is, which is good, but I think that's where the kind of chat really comes in that, which not mean like kind of, if you do, you've almost like a different thing groups of different purposes. If that's the right way of saying it, obviously, I've got, obviously, you and I, you each other from, um, Plenty football years ago. Um, and yeah, kind of obviously sort of drifted apart as I moved or whatever and then kind of made up through kind of mutual friends again and then got the chat about the kids and realized there was kind of, because I think, I think at that point, Ashton was, so I think Ashton was going through his diagnosis or had just been diagnosed. I think he was sort of somewhere through it and through the intellectually just, and you had kind of said, or just started like, yeah, or yeah, actually going through the same thing. Yeah, that way of like, in a safe way, I never in my head, I was kind of like, I was one of our friends, I've kind of gone through the same thing. Yeah, not necessarily, I want to pull you down with me, but it is that way you're kind of like someone's, someone gets it. I get a bit of a, I got one of my friends who are going through the same thing as opposed to, obviously, it's great now having the kind of filled dad's group, um, and then having our kind of friends as well. Yeah. But it's good to have a bit of both. And obviously, a lot of dads are also friends now as well. Yeah, exactly. It's not yet. It's, and it doesn't always, and I get that there is that kind of, it doesn't always need to be about the kids and there's been some of the couple of nights that we haven't really spoken about the kids at all, because, you know, I have fun. Yeah. I've done a bit with the kids today. Yeah. But it's also been, obviously, we've just went out for walks and just kind of, just yeah. That's the thing a little bit as well, even with the jazz, like, the something in it for when, if you want to, you know, go through different things, I look for the people who are that, that was the other kind of, I had the same thing, like, right, he gets this, but also you were six months ahead in the process and what we were. So we almost had a kind of preview of what was to come, you know, I mean, that was, that was really, really helpful as well. So, yeah, it's, it's been able to kind of bounce experiences off each other and ideas and there's a lot of very, like we're saying earlier on with the speech there, because there's a lot of very basic things that you just don't consider. Yeah. Because you're, can I, can't see you, but for the dream type of thing, you're right in the middle of it. So it's, it's really good for us. I like to just go on and talk nonsense and talk about whatever, but, yeah, that's not, that's not like ASN chat specifically. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's what for four or five different chats that are like, yeah, that's something there for everybody, essentially, and that's where that, that's not addressed me. Plugging the chat is like, as we've said, it's, it's kind of a, I suppose it's just kind of support systems and all that. And you know, you know, we've got your friends to kind of go and escape from things when, then you've got, you know, obviously you've got a partner your wife, whatever I mean, but you've got that, so it's just trying to get these, I've, I think it was like, different me bubbles. I don't know that I can just jump in and out. And I think we said before it, if me and you are talking about things with the kids, we kind of know where it's like, but you could be talking to a friend and you wouldn't really know what to say to half the things that we talk about whether, because I don't know if I want someone to say to me, that sounds really difficult, or if I want someone to tell me pure, I know that is absolutely awful, or your life is rubbish. That's right. I mean, like, something you'd think to hear certain things and you're kind of like, so it is good to have these different kinds of parts to it and it's good that we've got these chats where it is specifically, let's talk about our issues here, or let's just talk about football, let's talk about different things. So, no, it is good to have these. That's a bit as well, I think because everybody's kind of got their own, the kids are, you know, different traits and they've all got like, there's always, there's always someone who's got a slightly more challenges than what you do in different things like you've got more challenges about some things than they do, but you just know that everyone with these cana, everyone's got their stuff that they're dealing with essentially and that's, it's, it's cana, comfort in a, in a weird way to know that like, right, I'm feeling this really difficult, but God, I can't imagine dealing with that, where is, they might look at your situation and be like, this is difficult, but God, I don't, I think everyone's feeling the kids here all the time, that must be a neat, like, yeah, kind of thing, do you know what I mean? Well, it's like to think that you're, I don't know why it is, I think you're always kind of thinking that your situation isn't as bad as everyone else's and sometimes you do need, you kind of sit down and you kind of realise that one or you are in quite a difficult situation. I think it's just, it's just, you know, that's just, well, you've got to deal with it. Yeah. Not only different though, you know, exactly, and I think it is, I think it is good having those conversations to be like, sometimes you can get a positive, because somebody else can be like, oh, my kid really struggles with this and sometimes selflessly, kind of like, well, mine actually can do that quite well, but then it can be done, yeah, then it can be done all the way around. But it's kind of like, oh, my kid's really good at this and I'm like, I love my passion to be able to do that. And it's so, it's, I think it is, you're kind of taking the positives from each other, but it's saying, yeah, it's just that whole thing, again, we've said a bit, try to take the positives as much as possible from a very kind of stressful situation and I don't really both know that parenting, a child with additional needs requires a lot of patience and it can be very difficult to switch off, as we said, so it's the whole thing we've done with other people. It's quite good to switch off, but how do you find this has affected things in terms of like, kind of, relationship-wise with Katie or in terms of how your parents do have kind of different tables that one of you are maybe good at certain things and otherwise, how do you try to stop this from affecting things? I think we have always kind of had a bit of an accolid kind of a debate in conqueror. I think that, like, we don't spend as much time, the three of us as our family as any of us would really like, but it's really important that we both get that kind of respite and get a bit of time for ourselves to just recharge and do this all again. So, like, other weekends and stuff like that, I'll pretty much do them all and think, I'm a Saturday morning and usually can I sun the afternoon and Katie will do the opposite type of thing and it's trying to kind of make sure he sees our families at the same time. So, rather than both of us going to see, like, my dad, for example, I'll just go from Katie and occasionally, like, the thing you factor in, like, people's birthdays and all these other kind of things, you're still seeing each other kind of as a family, like, come on to the end of a minute. Anyway, but that's just that's something we've always kind of done. Even to be honest, even before the ASN side of things come on, it was a baby at that point and just catching up on sleep or just, you know, cleaning or whatever it may be doing motions and all that kind of good stuff, but so I think that's, I think we're a good team in that sense, but it would be nice to sit up and be able to do a bit more together in terms of kind of different roles and responsibilities. I think we all alternate quite well, particularly, like, I can come home from, like, there was a point in time he would get so, so hyper, like, my mum and dad's and obviously it's the first I've seen them in a while, so I'm catching up with them, but he's going on to them in a minute. So it's like, great time, like, brilliant here, an absolute ball, great to see them catch up, blah, blah, and this was probably every, every week, every couple of weeks, but I would come home just spent, like, nothing left in the tank and type of thing. NK was always really good to, like, identify in that and be really real, might even lie down for five minutes or I would something just, you know, disappear for a bit and stuff, something's lying down at the top. We're just going to each other whatever it might be and I think, like, that and I think if she's kind of struggling with him, I would like to think I'd do the same thing, maybe not to the same extent, but it's, it's almost kind of, some of that I've always been really cautious over as well as not having the two of us totally burnt out at the same time. One totally burnt out at the same time, but not having the two of us, kind of getting on at him if he's doing something or whatever, just having one of us, like, good cop, naturally, almost yeah, but almost like, kind of, understanding cop and exhausted cop, like, that's something I can try and focus on if he's particularly stressed with something he's doing or whatever I'll kind of obviously he's already got and that, as much as we don't want to escalate anything like that, it's important for him and he does understand that, it's important to understand kind of consequences and stuff of what he's doing and not just be too gentle about it, but not being too much about it, so sometimes I'll kind of write a step in and sort of talk to him a little bit, more about it or try and kind of help him understand why he's upset with mommy or whatever it might be, type of thing and that kind of thing. So it's kind of, but that's not necessarily, like, we're both going to alternate, and we're of what it's all about, what it's all about, what it's all about, what it's all about. And in terms of what it's all about, what it's all about, what it's all about, what it's all about. I'm very much kind of, if he had a Higgin I'm very kind of functional in terms of like if he needs I think they help him do something I'll usually pick it up or I'll kind of be thinking all these things but it's you know the kind of day to day stuff is like he's got that type of thing so that's kind of yeah that's like helpful that yeah having that, having that balance and having kind of almost like a yeah yeah I get it's important to to try and not get to the part where you're both completely stressed out and you're both knackered because at that point it's very difficult saying yeah it's important to make sure that you're giving each other that time is obviously what you're doing because it makes things a lot easier if you've at least got one of you that can do that if the other one's totally drained I mean is there any sort of things that you do that for example if you have had a tough week or as you said you take over to your parents or that and if you're totally drained stress is there any certain things that you like to do to kind of help to help kind of help you to try and like if you are drained your rest you'll be say said line a dark room that's like 100 buses that you like to do to try and just kind of switch off and unwind I used to be a used to be football like I obviously by far from the the fit is going in the world but there was a kind of football league football team I joined that was kind of specifically for like bigger guys trying to get back in a bit fit this and all that kind of thing so I had that was kind of my Thursday Sunday that's what I did type of thing and stopped that probably tail in the last year and yeah really like I'd love little I just picked it back up again starting until like going to like driving it and stuff like that and possibly I've waited to the end of the best summer in years to look again in a golf which is good but it's just trying to have to have hobbies and just things for yourself like be where you can be selfish and have that you time because without it like eventually you're going to be in all you stood anybody you know you need to be more than just Brody's dad yes and about you can't just be in our career essentially you need to have a certain time to yourself think it is and it's important for him I think to know that you know that the kids work they're watching all the time so that they've got to know like it's even you know kids with additional support needs are good they'll still see you doing things for yourself and having your own personality and having your own kind of identity essentially like it's really important to have that for yourself so that you can you know be better be the best version of you for your kids and look after yourself to work after them yeah yeah I guess as we're kind of coming to the end as there we spoke about trying to focus the positives and things as a positive negatives as an anything that sticks to kind of sticks out in your mind that's been a kind of small victory for Brody whether that's recently or in the past the kind of big thing that kind of comes to mind um he used to he's very he can be very excitable um and like particularly in and kind of family situations or busy situations to be family things that I'm at um he can get very excitable but it's just like an infectious we personality at times it like people just love him like he's just like great fun but you can just he has level getting higher and higher and higher and higher and sometimes he just he goes off and like it gets too happy it's too excited that he doesn't know what to do about it and that's when he can get sort of very difficult but like a couple of years ago my my cousin was over from from america um and he had basically sort of all the my cousins and all that with with their kids the just the bowling at Strathcough Park um and he loves bowling as well so I was like he's going to absolutely love this and it's that plenty of times really we try not to let him get too high or too low sometimes you just let him yeah can I get because he's always having the like even lost he was having like the best time and everybody was like having a laugh at him and having good fun with him and stuff like that and the whole the whole time not the whole time but that I was sort of trying to keep him going at some point eventually he's having a really good time and everyone's like he's everyone's being brought in with him but in the back of my head I'm like this Johnny Holmes is going to be getting him out of here it's going to be a challenge it's going to be really tough and he was absolutely brilliant he just he was just like I don't know if he was tired I don't know because obviously this was during the summer as well so I'm like he's off school he would be and not like can I think any was just we all kind of left together and he was just like everybody he was usually in those situations I'm pretty much dragging him out doing the brody walk out to stop him and he would just like oh by like just I mean it's it seems so basic but that was just like everything because like it was really like he absolutely loved it and like it would probably see him with everybody because a lot of back there's been times I haven't can I take them to things I've taken things and can I get them out the way just just to kind of not overwhelm them and I know what's spoken about it on the podcast before about sort of pushing about the reason when when I do it and it was something that will just let them let them go here to take the reins off and see what it gets to and before it was a couple of weeks before we went all day as well and we kind of did that did that move our way and it worked well. It's too next time there was a couple of moments but in the Ganski my things it was kind of yeah it was it was it was good it's been that was yeah I think it's a good couple of weeks. It's always difficult because most of the time that I think we'll all go into these sort of events not expecting the worst but expecting something to happen at some point so when you get out and eat what it's kind of start to finish it almost feels like just a normal night what you're not there is you're not a carer you're not there there's not any brody's not different for anyone else it's a case of we're just a good night yeah and I think that's that's brilliant that's a good yeah a good experience to have. I think it's one of those are always very consciously by not letting them get too high I'm I'm essentially denying them more fun and that's really difficult at times and that's that balance isn't it yeah and it's that I try to explain it to people as well like if he's if he is getting overexcited we're like really going down and they're like oh it's okay he's okay just now but this is there's a receipt that comes with us and actually when he's at home distorting and bashing the walls and that I've got he's so I guess it has test mode limits as it grows up as well being like how much can you kind of let go and just say to keep kind of reevaluating where that limit is yeah and just I it's that's something we've we've been very guilty of is just kind of having that wee bubble like we know we can we know how far we can take this and that's it we've got a line and we stop on that side and surprises us all the time and it's it's that that particular was just like brilliant kind of yeah that's that's we want more of that so yeah we'll try that again I guess just to finish up if you were to give any sort of advice to a new dad kind of on this journey what would you see now that would you'd find really kind of beneficial work you knew about it when you started it um do you know I had a friend of mine was I spoke to a friend a couple years ago who was on at the kind of start of it the journey and he was kind of quite worried about it like I don't know but you know he just doesn't seem to kind of interact with like I almost in his own new world kind of thing and I'd add so it's because the thing that we found with Brody was like if he had an interest initially we if it wasn't like a typical interest we would try and steer him away forever but we can I go to the point like if he's in a something let's try and feed it and let's try and hone that and develop it and eventually can redirect it into something but that's something that I'd say like see if he gets a thing or he gets an interest go with it like go ahead first into it um and I I remember I don't think there is anything and then within probably a few months of that um I'd seen his his his partner posted something into the game and it was like colors all stacked up and I was like amazing he's got he's got a big thing with like um and he's he's he's brilliant he's he's so fun um so that kind of just just trying to find a thing and find it and like work with them and like share that passion with them where you can and obviously if it's something that you can direct into something a bit more beneficial to the long term and do it um so that's something have hobbies have things for yourself um and have a have a support network like I was always kind of like I don't know how I feel about that but just the way that the the way that the kind of support network she can depend on out of you're not you're not there for anything in particular there's just there when you need a type of thing is is that can be really really beneficial but yeah probably those three think my pops are viable that pop up yeah I think that has been good um yeah I think what we need to say is yeah thanks again to pop in and play for Christmas um something a bit different um we can look to try and use some more one-to-one's um and if you've made it this far and then you format then thank you for for bearing with us um if you've got any feedback let us know because we can do we can do more of these this time go ahead and if there's any questions specifically for Barry based on any of these discuss ideas send it and uh yes if you're kept pulls here and you feel like there's no no light at the end of the tunnel then um I don't know what I can help with but to know that someone's been put it at least he's he's I should probably say that he's very much coping better with stuff like that yeah he's just a happy wee guy and he's a pleasure at the pleasure that I have Thanks for watching and see you next time. Thanks for watching. Bye. Thanks for listening. If you want to get involved or get in touch with us, you can find us on Facebook or Instagram under ESN.Chap.