Episode 238: David Park

Hi, it's Joe Lauri. Welcome to another episode of the Global Lithium Podcast. Today is episode 238. My guest is standard lithium CEO, David Park. This episode was recorded in Las Vegas, Nevada, at the Fast Markets Lithium event in the live lounge. And that is why you will hear a lot of background noise. David is relatively new to the lithium industry, but he has a blue chip background having worked in the Coke organization. And that would be Coke Industries, not Coca-Cola, for almost 30 years and having run significant businesses for them. He is a great addition to the executive talent in the Lithium industry. He is, in my mind, very similar to A. John Evans, or a Dale Henderson in terms of talent. And disposition as well, he's a very calm thought and a very helpful guy. He's got a great sense of humor, too. The live lounge recordings are limited from a time perspective, so we didn't get into every detail that I would have liked to cover. So we will probably do a follow-up episode in the next few months, but without further ado, David Park. David Park, welcome to the live lounge slash Global Lithium Podcast. I'm excited to be here. And we don't normally do gifts, but since we're here, I have a signed copy of Lithium Confidential for you. Thank you very much. Excited to get this. Read it on the plane on the way home, Joe. A little 500 pages of light reading. So normally we do the backstory, but I'm just going to let you weave your backstory into these questions. You had a long, storied career and had retired to Park City, Utah when the clarion call of Lithium came. What was your calculus in leaving Park City for a Lithium startup? Great question. Yeah, so I did spend almost three decades at Koch Industries. And I did think I was truly retired. And in the mountains, skiing, mountain biking, hiking, et cetera. But I got a phone call from Robert Mintek. And he didn't ask if I wanted his job. He just said, hey, can you help us a little bit? And you can still do these fun things at the same time. So I came in as an advisor to help them. And it was only after we did the deal with Equinor that I helped them with, that Robert, again, approached me about maybe taking his job. The decision to ultimately come out of retirement and do this was largely founded on-- and I told my wife this multiple times, if I'm going to come out of retirement, I want to work with good people on stuff that's interesting and important, and standard hit all those criteria. Fair enough. And you got to work with Jesse, too. Absolutely. You took the CEO role in-- It's in the fourth quarter of '24? Yeah, almost two years ago now. OK, so you hit the worst time, maybe about the worst time. You could have joined the lithium industry from a market standpoint. You must have had some expectation of what it was going to be like to be working in lithium. But what surprised you the most in the first two years? Yeah, I think what surprised me the most in the last two years is just how long everything takes. It is-- I had the great fortune of working with a company prior that had a $100 billion balance sheet. And when they wanted to do something, they could move quickly. Now when you're a pre-revenue company, you're a junior, and you're looking to build a $1 billion plus project, you need to access other people's capital. You need to partner with people. And that means you need to-- everything you do is highly diligence by third parties. And that just means everything takes time. And you have to prove everything all the way along the way. So it's a long process to get across the line. Well, you were involved in bringing equinor into the fold to where it was stand. How important was having a deep pocketed partner in both your decision and in how you think about the future of stand? It's foundational. It was critical. Robert and Andy and Bob Cross, frankly, had done an amazing job taking the company from zero to where it was. But the partnership with equinor helped take us to another level. It brought us not just capital, but it brought incremental capability and it brought credibility, that then helped us raise more capital and do some great things. I'm going to assume-- and you can tell me if I'm wrong-- that you didn't know a whole lot about the lithium industry when you agree to sign up. Just what I heard on your podcast. Yeah. OK. Well, a shame was plugged for my podcast. In the last two years, you've obviously had a bunch of challenges. The market's been a challenge that led into financing challenges. What do you think the biggest barrier is to the success of ultimate success of standard in your projects? I think at this point in time-- well, first, I will say, the team over the last number of years and then even last year have done a great job of ticking off milestones, advancing the engineering, de-risking the technology, proving up the natural resource, securing federal permits, getting to the letter of intent stage with export credit agencies, project finances, raising equity along the way. So there have been a lot of accomplishments that this team has realized. But I think right now for us to get to FID, the critical factor will be signing another offtake to a key offtake agreement with a long-term take or pay obligation with a credit worthy counter party will be foundational for our ability to finalize the project financing. So right now, that's the critical path. That is the critical path, day and day out. So the other thing you always have to talk about-- when you talk about the smackover-- is the current state of DLE and the decision making that goes into choosing it and where you are in that process. Yeah, so I don't think many of the listeners will know this that when I was at Koch Industries in my last role, my team made an investment in standard. So I got to know the team and go to the sites and learn about DLE prior to my taking this role. So I've been around the story about five years. I think going back even before then, standard has done an incredible job. And particularly Andy Robinson and the team on the ground Will Smith and Chad and that overall team of running real brines, real time, in real time, at scale, at our demonstration facility. So that is given us the confidence, but more importantly, it gave Equinor the confidence, ultimately gave AQUATEC the confidence, and has given lenders the confidence that we have a technology that works with the resource we have. So when I think of constraints to raising capital, we don't really get a lot of questions anymore about whether DLE will work. I think we've done enough work at this point in time that people are largely satisfied that it will. When you look at having multiple projects, DLE tends to be bespoke. Is there enough homogeneity in the brine that you're looking at in different parts of the smackover for you to believe you can employ the same DLE technology across projects? We believe there is, and we continue to test that. So a lot of the demonstration work has been done at the back of the Lanksys facility in El Dorado. But then last year we ran a pilot at with the brines at Southwest Arkansas. We found a lot of homogeneity process worked, satisfied us, satisfied Equinoir, satisfied our lenders as well. You spent most of your career with a private company, but a huge company, systems, all the sorts of things you have when you have $100 billion balance sheet. And now you're working small town, Arkansas, small team. What have the challenges been in adjusting your style to that kind of environment? It's a great question. I think the biggest challenge is not the big versus the small other than when you're small I think I already said this you're you're bringing in partners you're bringing in lenders you're bringing in other organizations and then you are inheriting their decision making processes in their timelines as well. So that is I think when I got into this I had a I thought we could be a lot more nimble faster flexible and I think we still have remained and kept those entrepreneurial elements but when you're dealing with an export credit agency that's part of a government you have to do certain things when your partners are part of large matrix organizations you go through their process. A lot of people watching what happens you you and Thacker Pass to lithium bellweathers you have a huge interest from the state of Arkansas neighboring states to see what happens what's been the what's been the biggest plus of the way the U.S. is approaching this in Arkansas is approaching trying to help this Mac over get developed and then what's the the other side of that the challenges. Yeah I think the biggest plus for us I'll give two so the from DC the the first was the Department of Energy gave us awarded us a $225 million grant that grant serves as a catalyst supports our economics and brought us additional credibility that helped us down the line so that that was really foundational really helpful. The the next one was the White House designating us as part of a fast 41 program at priority critical mineral project that helped us get through a federal or national environmental review process efficiently in about a year so we ran a thorough NEPA process but it was efficient and timely and it didn't take nearly as much time as John had to go through at LAC so that that's been positive. I do think if there is frustration right now in DC it's it's more that there's all sorts of different departments looking to do things critical minerals focused the there's been a lot more I would say press releases than closed deals and the the reality hasn't quite met the rhetoric so there's a lot of talk action is happening but most of the action frankly is on the rare earthside and less so on the lithium side. Yeah that seems that seems apparent. Yeah and if I could follow it up so you know John so LAC beneficiary of a large DOE loan we're beneficiaries of a sizeable grant both of those were awarded and granted initially in a prior administration and then went through reviews in this administration and both of us were able to keep those in place but they weren't really novel or new levers being pulled by this administration and I do think that with respect to lithium they believe that the job is largely done and they don't really I believe they've underestimated how many dollars over how many years China has you know the story better than I do but you know China is a consistent trillion for decades right. A trillion for the whole supply chain from the ground in the ESS. So I would say I think we're appreciative of all the support we've had but I do think the administration has underestimated how much work needs to be done to levelize that plan if you're successful you're successful you're still it's a pretty small amount of supply and when you look at I mean we can look at supply from the fact that we only imported around 20,000 tons last year or we can look at how many gigawatt hours of battery power we're put to use last year and are used on our roads and it's a very different lithium number when you look at it that way so when you think about the next five to ten years what has to happen besides your first project besides last lacks phase one for us to have any level of lithium independence or credibility. Sure. I'd say the midstream needs to get built out first so cam production in North America or at least in the West is going to be foundational for building out the business and how do you view what's happening on that front. Yeah I think there is a realization that the midstream is missing. I don't think the administration has fully figured out how to resolve that yet. So I will say it would it would be helpful if something like the 45x tax credit didn't sunset that is a tax credit that you know the midstream business has tight economics and a bit of the meat in the sandwich and having a tax credit like the 45x tax credit supported the economics of the midstream sector and the downstream sector and with those going away over time and with some of the uncertainty around tariffs it's been hard for people to make material investments in the West so some certainty along those would be helpful. When you're presenting the standard story to investors when they ask you about the market what's your story what's the standard story on where the lithium market's going in your view in the next three to five years. Yeah it's largely driven off some of some of the podcast I've listened to but I'd say honestly Joe it is the demand side I think to American audiences they think they they mistakenly can believe lithium demand will follow us eb sales and that's the sole driver. I think what people are missing is the rapid pace of growth in global eb sales as well as the rapid growth in battery energy storage systems so the BESS market you know the numbers better than I do but it's a very large part of the market right now and a very fast growing part of the market so a lot of our dialogue is around that. Do you feel there's been a change in both people that want to invest in lithium's perspective and lender's perspective on what's happened eb's were the whole story and the failing of GM's projects and forage projects and backing off of eb's was it was a major story but now with the US having a higher percentage growth in ESS than in China did last year and that's really without much AI data center related activity and so that's that's a future state do you see people is saying you know lithium isn't just an eb store do you think people are getting that or is that constant educational process no I think right now absolutely they're getting it so we have investors that are investing us that are view us almost as a proxy to the AI trade like how do we play AI how do we play electrification how do we play data centers where a lot of those names are private and some are becoming public but there are people out there the hedge fund community the smart long only institutional money are looking at lithium right now and other critical minerals as ways of investing in AI data centers etc so it's not solely eb you have a a large fan base in Arkansas standard has very Jesse has all well of course it's Jesse where is Jesse he's out there somewhere excited you're you're more than one project but it's all small town Arkansas basically and people start talking about lithium and then it's a year then it's two years and it's three years and you know and the hunt brothers had their big hit stuff having really fast sure things have been slower despite the change in the market it's originally we we thought there was going to be an FID last year and the market's still waiting how patient are you finding the locals are I think they're actually more patient than I am so I would say what's very important is having the right team. on the ground. So having Will and Valsmith, having Chad there, Jesse there with great frequency, day-to-day conversations with the community, so they understand where we're at, and they understand how laser-focused we are in trying to get to FID as quickly as possible. So that's the first thing. It's just regular consistent communication, but yeah obviously they all want to see this thing happen. We haven't found any opposition at all to what we're doing and we want to see, we want to make it happen as well. With the most specialized team of Lithium-Brine professionals in the world, Solanda is dedicated to providing exceptional customer service and support throughout every stage of Lithium-Brine field development and production. From the Atacama to Ambrimuerto to the USA and Canada, go to zelandas.com for more information that's zeal-a-nd-e-z.com. I was, I think we were at the same dinner with the governor. Oh yes. I found her- Is that in your book? Yeah. Scarily well informed. Was that a surprise to you how articulate she seems to be on what's going on? Because it, clearly when I talked to her, it was not talking points of the stuff she actually knew. Yeah, I would say for me it wasn't a surprise because we have spent so much time with her cabinet, with people in our cabinet. So her secretary of commerce, her secretary of energy environment, and then we had that opportunities to meet her prior. Lithium is a very high priority for her and it has been for a long time and she's put the right people and the right jobs to make sure it remains that way. I think my last meeting was at that same dinner you referenced. She asked what else they need to do to make this make it a reality and I turned it back and I said I think you've done your job now it's time for us to do ours. So they've been incredibly supportive in Arkansas and they've not just been helpful making sure Arkansas itself is set up in a way that's constructive. Arkansas has been very helpful for us in DC. So the governor gets it, Senator Cotton gets it, Senator Bozeman gets it, Congressman Westerman we're in his district that will consistence support from team Arkansas and it's about his supportive environment as I could ever ask for. Well, I pitched a couple of podcasts to go that maybe Senator Cotton might want to get you a project vault off take agreement. One tranche it makes perfect sense if you want. What do you think of that idea? I'd say nothing is impossible at this stage. I would really like to be at a point where just we've had levers pulled in our favor from the government. So from the DOE already and also from USXM I really hopeful I don't have to make an incremental ask and just commercially over the courts of the next couple months we get this thing done. One of the things that John talks about it lack and that I have seen in just some of the conversations I've had is that lack has been a bipartisan project. I imagine you feel yours is also bipartisan is lithium the great uniter in US politics. You know it could be and it should be. I will admit though I do fear that petty politics could get in the way. When you talk one-on-one to you know Republicans or one-on-one to Democrats everyone's supportive of developing domestic low-cost environmentally friendly lithium for the energy transition or energy addition just you change that last word. It's a little nuance but there's broad bipartisan support. How much time have you spent in Arkansas before you took this job? A little not a lot so I spent time at Koch Industries in one of the businesses they own called Georgia Pacific and they have a number of pulp and paper mills in Arkansas and saw mills so I had spent some time there I think I'm gonna measure it and I probably had spent less than five nights in Arkansas prior. What surprised you most about Arkansas because honestly if you grow up on the coasts in the United States people have certain assumptions about Arkansas and I've always found them to be incorrect because I've spent a lot of time in Arkansas just for my college days. But how's your thinking changed since you've been going very often? Yeah I would say I'll go back to being from Toronto originally and my wife is also from Toronto. A couple years ago one night she looked at one of her best friends and said never in my life did I think one of my best friends would be from Arkansas. Just growing up in Toronto it's a completely different world. Having worked doing a couple tours of duty in Wichita, Kansas not that far away from Arkansas I knew what people from that part of the world were like and so I don't think I was surprised when I got to Arkansas and realized friendly straight shooters willing to everyone just trying to be supportive and if you're doing something wrong willing to tell you you're doing something wrong as well so I think there's a certain humility that people from that part of the Midwest have and it's a great place to work. You've had to spend a lot of time in Washington involved in this job. A little less humility there. With the current war situation and on again off again it's going to open. The straight of her was just going to open. It's not going to open. Is that just noise to you or do you? Does that impact how people are thinking about what you're doing to any extent? Yeah I think long term it's a positive on spurring on incremental demand for EVs globally. The more geopolitical insecurity there is around oil and gas so I think long term that helps the fundamentals. It doesn't really impact our dialogue in DC day to day about their priorities and what they're working on. It does impact the capital markets. I mean some days the capital markets are on fire and they're good to us and some days they're not so that situation is more I'd say on the equity side it impacts us or could. When the FID does go forward what's your current plan as far as how long that build takes? Yeah we so very focused on FID in the fourth quarter of this year then 2029 say mid-ish 2029 first first production and I think 2030 is when we're steady state flat 22,500 tons a year of lithium carbonate. The market this year will grow global market will grow more than global demand was in 2020. The smackover is one of the big stories about the future but with the time it takes for builds we're going to be in a three and a half million ton market versus a 2022 of 850,000 tons. What else has to happen? I mean I would think that that's a positive for you because it is absolutely. The cost curves going up there's going to be a tight market for a long period of time but even lithium producers have historically undershot demand almost by half and I could give you different companies 2017 numbers for 2025 and it usually is right around half. How now that this is is real. We're 300,000 tons in 2020. We'll be 3 million before 2030 maybe two years before 2030. How has that changed in the lithium industry? Change how you look at the future of standard? Yeah I think when we think of the future of standard we don't talk about one project. We're not just a one project company. We have a portfolio of projects across southern Arkansas and then into East Texas. So while we're laser focused on getting to FID and first production at Southwest Arkansas we're also advancing our first East Texas project, the Franklin project and our hope would be that over the next decade or so we can get to north of 100,000 tons of production from our lands alone in the smack of them. So very focused on executing and delivering on the first project but then bringing the other ones along so that they can follow in short order after the first. Well Andy's not here but if he was I'd ask him this question so he maybe we'll come back together and I know he I know he looks at things like what do you think the. A reasonable mid range estimate for the actual the full potential the smack over counting what an X on might do what a chevron might do what other players might do. I would say 250,000 times from the smack over over the next I don't know it's 10 or 15 years but I think that's realistic given the potential and the quality of the players in the region. So if you do 250 and John does phase one two black we're still under 400,000 times and so. Absolutely. All this work is going to put us it may be 2035 we're 6% of world supply. What has to happen to do better than that. Well over time and I think you've seen aqua tech make some announcements here this week. Over time there needs to be more innovation that drives down capital cost and operating cost even further to then open up resources that I'm not even including. So right now you know I look at us pursuing projects that have lithium concentrations of north of 400 parts per minute or a milligrams per liter. There are a number of other people out looking at things 200 or below or 100 or below currently skeptical about those economics perhaps over time enough innovation capital cost coming down we open up more and so there's a lot of lithium it's about can we extract it at the right cost to realize the right economics. What do you think about the rest of you people tend to talk about not the U.S. they talk about North America. There's a lot of there's a lot of lithium in Canada most of it hard rock. How do you view that and how do you view your cost position versus North American hard rock. Yeah I feel very confident in our cost position versus hard rock in general. The best hard rock assets have been developed and are producing but as far as the next wave globally of hard rock I think DLE from the smackover will benchmark very well. We see ourselves as having a cost structure that we're in the first quartile of the supply curve and supports you know numerous projects with attractive economics. Well everybody talks about your partnership with Ecuador. Doing these projects there's a lot other people that are involved. Who are some of your other key partners. So first you know Coke was the first partner so it came in and made a hundred million dollar investment and standard about five years ago. Actually came in and was said hey we have this DLE technology as well. Why don't you see if this performs better for you than your existing one and Andy and the team were amazing like they they've traveled both. You scientific method didn't have not invented here mentality and decided to make a bet on advancing Coke's technology. So you know we entered into joint development agreement with Coke and then licensed the technology. Now aquatech has come in acquired that technology and that relationship over the last year has been fantastic. So let's say Coke slash aquatech very important partner. Equinor as you said very important partner helping us capital capability credibility and frankly help us grow up a lot bring some systems processes discipline etc. Then I'd say US government has been a partner for us. So the DOE has been a great partner in helping us go forward as as the state of Arkansas. So a lot of partners and now the export offtake partners Trafigura our first offtake deal with them and then hopefully soon we'll be able to come back and talk about our other offtake partners Joe. Yeah I thought we were gonna do that today but I was hoping so. Okay so you you got a good suite of partners. The markets turned in your favor. When you look at when people ask you about lithium price and you know I always make the case that there isn't a lithium price there are a lot of lithium prices but how do you talk about what your investors should be looking at is the lithium price because we got a whole situation now with the GFEX and the rumor mill in China where the volatility and the uncertainty isn't really good for yeah trying to get investment in. Yeah so I'd say the first thing I do is I very clear that and I'll go back to a conversation I had once with Ken Lay from Enron I asked them where he thought the natural gas price would be in the future and he said it's going to be volatile. That's the story of lithium right it's it's going to be volatile we're going to have our ups we're going to have our downs you need to build a project on the right natural resource with the right technology that gives you a cost position that you can live and thrive in those troughs so first and foremost design something that you know that you survive in the troughs and you know you have the right to win but getting to your your question of a long-term price with to be able to bring on enough projects to meet the demand you see and that I see I believe lithium is lithium price is going to have to start with the two I don't know how deep into the two that is going to have to be but an average long-term price I don't think starts with a one I think it starts with a truth oh I completely agree last time we saw 80 we probably have a worse supply demand matching dynamic now and China has a more limited ability to just run to Africa and dig up a bunch of low quality stuff to building out and and they know that now so the question becomes then why doesn't it run to 30 or 40 or do you see it could happen but what then how bad would that be for the industry if that happens yeah I would say that we're well obviously take it if it goes there we're not building a company based on that so I last year or a couple years ago when price was not our friend lithium price was not our friend I was reflecting with some people back on the days in 1998 when I ran Coax crude oil exploration production business crude oil was $12 a barrel and the fights we would have internally to justify projects were like how can you try and justify a project at $18 a barrel what makes you think crude will ever get to 18 again and then you know we saw it we see where it is now we saw it had a hundred everything else what we're seeing now with lithium robust demand globally and we're seeing this yes the best cure for high prices is high prices but the supply response is look it takes time these projects are hard to launch and I think supply will always be chasing that demand so I do think there is a positive case to be told for you know lithium pricing that may start with something higher than a tube but again we're not the thing of this is based on this episode is also brought to you by mlc whether you need technical support for engineering or setting up equipment for effective use of lime mlc is your solutions partner visit lime for lithium dot com to learn more that's l_i_m_e the number four l_i_t_h_i_u_m dot com well you you alluded earlier to coke was the first partner and that they were brought in technology but you saw coke exit this business is a long time coke guy did that give you pause when they decided to go another way no because well first coke has remained in our capital structure so they haven't sold their shares though they're still their investment is still there on the technology side yes they did sell it but when I was at coke we were we built businesses and ran businesses for the long term but if anyone ever came in and offered us something for the business that was worth more than we thought it was worth or that had you know strategic reasons of how they would scale a business or grow a business more than we would and that allowed them to pay more for it every business was always for sale every day so the fact that coke sold the technology did not face me at all and the way that coke and aqua tech and frankly server us together came to andy came to me to make sure that we had a smooth transition and what was it was fantastic so you know maybe there was six hours of angst but it's it's uh. it passed quickly six hours of angst that that could be the title of the podcast >> All right, so everything's looking much better this year than when you joined. >> Yeah. >> Oh my God. >> Yeah, single-handedly. >> You've got now a state we've talked about that's very supportive, but what are the things like lithium learns and some of the other programs that are concise done that seem pretty far-sighted. And I was able to visit with some of those people when I was down there. How important are those things, Ben? And tell me about the talent pool for what you want to do. >> Yeah, so Arkansas is blessed with the right natural resource. That got us there first. So the geological freak of the smackover is what got Andy and team focused there and Robert focused for years. What Jesse has done and our team on the ground, they really worked very closely with the academic institutions, the regional communities to focus on workforce development. So we have found a community in southern Arkansas that is used to chemical operations, pulp and paper, refining. So these sort of oil and gas are used to these sorts of industries, but now we're working so there is a pool of people that will need more. So the workforce development programs that are happening with the local community colleges, technical colleges, with the University of Arkansas have all been very supportive of what we're doing. So yeah, we think we have the labor supply there to be helpful. And I will also say one of the benefits of running a demonstration unit for the amount of years we've had is having 35 or 40 people on the ground, operators, maintenance people, that then when we go to build our first project, we have the critical mass of people that can form the team for Southwest Arkansas, Facebook. >> We've already talked about Jesse, but I'd like to talk about one other guy, well, too, probably. So important is Hugh McDonald's been as a supporter for your project. >> Hugh has been fantastic. So Hugh McDonald is the Secretary of Commerce for Arkansas, former executive at ENTERGY, so he understands the energy business, the electricity business. He is very practical. He understands what industry needs to be successful. And he's tied at the hip with the governor. So very supportive in what we're doing. He also in partnership with Shane Corey, who is the Secretary of Energy and Environment, have helped the governor and say shepherd this industry, and they've been great teams. >> Well, there's somebody else I'd like to mention. I think he's just been named to the 40 under 40, and that would be Will Smith, don't call me the fresh prince of El Dorado. And so what can you tell me about a find like Will Smith, because he's been there ever since I've been coming. And his wife's also. >> Yeah, I would say Will is just, I'd love to take credit for being the guy that hired him, but he was there when I got there too. So Robert and Andy found him, or he found them, I'm not sure exactly, but he is a guy that is as good in a facility as he is in a local community. And he's blessed to have a great wife, Val, who day in day out works with us. They're great representatives in the community. Chad Martin as well on our team has just done an amazing job there. And they've dialed in the demonstration unit and given us great confidence that we'll be successful, but they've also really brought the local community on side. So they're a big part of the secret sauce. >> So let's now reprise where we are. Want to have an FID by Q4. >> Yeah. >> It's going to take you arguably 30 some months to build it. So 2029. >> 2029. >> Can I take that one to the bank? >> Take it to, yes, which bank? >> Arkansas. Bank, bank and trust. All right, so we've, I think we've covered most of what I wanted to cover, but what did I miss? What? >> Yeah, I think, I don't think it's what you missed. It's what maybe I missed. So when you asked a question about joining the company, I think, you know, for me what I didn't really expand on was just the team, the quality of the team. So the founders of the company did an amazing job of hiring the right people and putting the right team together. And that is what gave me the confidence to go forward with this. And so we've talked about a number of those individuals, but you know, I need to make sure I give credit to Robert Mintak. You know, I day in, day out work with Andy, partner that, you know, we work very closely and very well together, but it wasn't for it to work that Robert had done early on. We would not be in the spot for a wrap. >> All right, so I think if I didn't miss anything, I'll just ask you a couple of wrap and fire questions. >> This is what I was afraid of. This was the first one. You haven't been, you don't have a long culinary history with Arkansas. So as you spend time in Arkansas, what food do you eat in Arkansas that you had not eaten before? >> Probably the Kalachi. You know, Kalachi's for breakfast. That wasn't on my regular program. Have you ever gone gigging for frogs? >> Not yet. >> And your alma mater, you've had some-- >> Texas A&M. >> I don't know. I wanted you to say-- >> The transition to gigum. >> Okay. >> And you're going there. >> And, you know, I'm just-- how hard has it been for you to have some of the heart breaks you've had with the-- >> Well, it's-- I've been well trained. Growing up in Toronto, the Leafs not winning anything since 1967. You know, my local NFL team, your same team. The Bills, there's been a lot of heartbreak there. So the fact that Texas A&M hasn't won a national championships since 1939, kind of used to it, but, you know, it's part of the fabric of my life. >> All right. We're going to leave it there. Thank you very much for being on the podcast, and I appreciate it. And if you want to plug my book, okay? >> I'm going to read your book and then I'm going to plug it, but I look forward to it. Thank you very much. >> All right. Thank you. is in the books, but as we discussed, these projects take time. What standard is doing is significant. The Smackover needs the first project to be fully online to then unleash the potential of a very large and significant resource. I still like the analogy, although dated, of Roger Bannister, breaking the four-minute mile, the sports world waited for years for the first person to do it, and then many others did in quick succession. I believe that will be true in the Smackover as well. I want to thank all the people that have written me about Lithium Compadential and given me positive reviews. Although I do appreciate the direct messaging, I also would appreciate it if more people would go out on the Amazon that does help with book sales if people give it a five-star and write a positive review, although it does seem like Amazon is pretty slow in putting those reviews online. I am also aware that the book is backward, I guess, is what they're calling it, in Australia. You can't order it on Amazon. It won't immediately ship. They will let you know when it's going to ship, but they don't charge you until it does ship, so I would urge people that want to order the book to do it. The more orders are in, the higher priority it's going to get in the printing queue. It's a little different in America, Canada, the UK. These are printed very quickly. They're printed to order. Australia seems to be a little bit different, a little bit slower, and my largest podcast audience is in Australia, so I am expecting a fairly significant amount of book sales from Australia, but right now Australia is behind several other countries, and I think it's probably due to the fact that Amazon says temporarily out of stock. So please order it. I am aware that some people don't like to hear about the book, but this is my podcast, and I have put more effort into writing this one book than all the time I've spent on the 230 8 episodes now of this podcast. So I'm not expecting to make money on it. I'm not even expecting to recoup the investment I have in it, but I do feel strongly that this book has a value as a teaching instrument about the history of Lithium, expat life, Nego, negotiating, expat deals, etc. Thanks again for listening.