Episode 232 Bill Matthews: Sobriety Is the Starting Line

Introducing Bill Matthews and His Inspiring Journey What if we can positively impact society by reshaping the mindsets of young men? And while we're at it, let me ask you, what does it mean to be a man? My name is Dennis Moralda, a father, a teacher, a coach, a mentor, and a principal. With over 2 decades of experience shaping the minds and characters of young men across the United States, these questions resonate. If you're a young man looking to improve your life or a parent looking for tools to help your son become the best version of himself, the Building Men Podcast was created for you. What is up everyone? Welcome to the Building Men Podcast or welcome back if you have been a listener before. My name is Dennis Miralda and today I'm joined by a repeat guest on the the podcast. I first met Bill Matthews in Richmond, VA in October of 23. I was down there for the unlifted event. I did a, a big like keynote kind of speech on stage and after the event I, I was bullshitting with Bill a little bit. He came up and he was talking to me and I just fell in love with his story and he's just a genuinely good dude. I had Building Men podcast episode with Bill Matthews on it was in January of 2024 podcast episode 197. So go take a listen to that. You get a little bit more of a back story, a brief bio for Bill. He is the founder of Story State Solutions. That's a coaching business for men who are traditionally navigating post sobriety recovery and their career professionals. He talks about story state, actions, results. He gets people out of their heads and into motion. Will definitely hit that on the on the podcast today, 37 years of sobriety. He's a Level 3 and lifted coach. We'll talk about that as well. And he has a background as an ultra endurance athlete. And one of the reasons I have Bill on is that he's actually doing a big race in June of 26. And the money that he's raising for the trip is going to go to the Stay in the Fight charity that we started for Anthony. So absolutely near and dear to my heart. So long intro there, Bill, But what's up, my man? It's really, really good to see you. Finding Confidence by Embracing the Uncomfortable Dennis, you know, great to see you as well. I remember when I first, I first met you, I was listening to the podcast a bit and the first time I met you, I'm like, is he wearing pink pants? Wow. That showed me some confidence, which I needed at the time to learn how to be fully confident and walk out in the uncomfortable and walk through it, which is part of what you shared that day. And yeah, it's great to be on the podcast again. I it's my first repeat podcast and I've been on a few, but the one I was with, I've shared that podcast with more people as a brief description of who I am and what I'm about than any other. I really enjoyed our conversation. Speaker 1 Likewise. Speaker 2 It's absolutely bitching to be to be back and specially share about what I'm doing and and how we're partnering together for a great cause. Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's funny, I think back to the And Lifted event and now it was at this really cool venue. It was called the Bird Theater in Richmond, and I was asked if there were 5 speakers total. I was asked to be one of the speakers and I was the first one up. So talk about, you know, I'd never done anything like that. It was more like a Ted Talk. It was like a 15 minute. And you have to be really succinct with it. You have to memorize your speech. And I, I was kind of going back and forth with like, what do you wear? Mark England, the creator of and lifted. He didn't give you much. He's just like you do you do you. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to talk about where building men came from and where, you know, obviously the colors of building men are black, white and pink, which is that was a whole, you know, story in and of itself to get to that point. But when I decided to wear the pink pants and I put on black and pink Jordans, it was almost like alter ego effect. If you've ever heard of that book, it it's like, you know, you put on the Cape and you go out and you, you feel the vibe of Superman rather than Clark Kennedy. And had that, that feeling to me, it gave me a little bit more confidence. Like, hey, you know, I'm a dude in my late 40s putting on pink, pink golf pants, bright ass pink golf pants going out there. So I appreciate the, you know, the story about how that even impacted your, your confidence. I totally forgot that I had those pants on that day. Speaker 2 Yeah, it's it's something that I shared on the podcast when I was with you before about embracing uncomfortable. As I carry that, as I carry that kettlebell, you know, it's like, can you walk through uncomfortable things? What people think, what are going to people say? And how often is have we done or not done things based on what we think people are going to to think. Even somebody asking for help, they don't ask for help because they don't want to be labeled as anything. And typically a man doesn't come to another man and say, hey, I'm suffering from some anxiety or I'm, I'm feeling a bit depressed. Like what? Pull your pants up, homie. You know, what are you weak? It's like, wow, that stigma has kept men suffering in silence for so long. That is a lot of what I bring out into the light. I want men to be able to share how they're feeling. Speaker 1 It's, it's interesting because that's the work that I'm doing. I'm just starting it before they, they kind of hit that low point before they find themselves in the gutter. And it's, it is a struggle. And initially when I'm working with boys, it's they're so hesitant to share anything that would make them be perceived as less than a week amongst their peers. Especially I really get into the, the idea of there's, there's tremendous strength and vulnerability and if you're able to, to own your story and you come across like, this is me, no one can hurt you anywhere. You know, if you're like, this is, I'm going to put it all out there on the table. There's no one that they can't come at you for anything 'cause you're already owning it yourself. And it, it takes a while for boys to understand that. But once they recognize like they're not the only ones that are going through this specific thing, it helps them, you know, come in and, and unload some of those things. And I'm sure you feel the same way with the guys that you're working with, right? Taking Responsibility for Your Life's Challenges Yeah. And what's what I do see, though, is generation by generation, that stigma, I believe is changing. I mean, you talk about family heritage, trauma being handed down. Like my dad was born in 1928. I wasn't getting a kiss and hugs and asking me how I was feeling today. I was lucky if I got any words from my dad and, you know, think about what was his father like to him, born in the late 1800s. Like what? I mean, no, we were the world was a completely different place because it needed to be a completely different place. I remember seeing a picture of a a man holding a child and the child was looking up at the father saying I I just needed a hug. And the dad looked back at the boy and said, yeah, me too. Oh, dude. It broke my heart. It broke my heart, Dennis, because I had such a story about my dad being a specific type of way that it really outlined my whole childhood by not by my actual childhood, but by the story I told myself of my childhood. And then somebody asked a great coach asked me a question, Hey, can you write down 5 positive things about your father? No one had ever asked me to tell them a story about good things about my dad. But once I wrote those down, I was like, wow, my dad was a unbelievably stoic man, Lost a son, you know, went to work every day, all of the things. And when I changed the way I saw my father, my whole childhood changed. Because there's the the old quote. You don't believe what you see. You see what you believe. I believe my dad was mean and and not a good father. So that's all my memories because the reticular act phase is going to, that's all that it's going to show. But once I was asked that question, I started to see different. I'm like it changed everything. Speaker 1 Yeah, totally agree with that. It's funny that the Ras still works in schools. When I work with with young men, it's like one of the first things I'll ask him was like, hey, anybody seen a red car in the last week? And like, yeah, sure, I've seen a red car. How many red cars exactly have you seen? Do you know that number? Of course they have no idea how many red cars. It could be 8. It could be 800. Really. Who's counting? But then I'm like, hey, if I come back next week and I give you 100 bucks for every red car that you saw, will you have an exact count? Hell yeah. Well, why? Well, because now there's an opportunity associated with where my attention goes. And I'm like, what if life is just like that? What if the more you look for something, the more likely you are to see that thing. And the other thing real quick about your father too, Bill, is I just said this yesterday to a group of of young men in East Rutherford, which is right near MetLife Stadium. Tough drive in. It's just like I'd I'd drive right past the location where Anthony died. And yesterday morning it was pretty crazy, like haven't really had this happen yet. But yesterday morning I'm driving in and there was an accident on Route 3 in the almost the same exact spot. I know where he he was, he was killed. So there was an accident and there was cop cars and there was an ambulance. And I just, it was like my heart stopped. I couldn't breathe. I had to pull off to the side of the road. And it was like, I've never really had a panic attack or anxiety attack, but I would imagine that's the closest that it could ever feel. And when I go in with the boys, I, you know, the first thing we do together after we shake hands with one another as we share a win and a struggle. And I'll usually lead it off in my struggle, I try to get a little bit below the service and a little bit deeper because I'm trying to model for them that it's OK for a man to show some vulnerability. And so I talked about that, that experience. And as I did, I got choked up in front of the boys. And typically, like in one of the first two meetings of the year, I'll tell a story And I, you know, there's some tears flowing. But what that does is it gives them permission to to follow suit. But what I told him yesterday, Bill, after telling that story, I was like, listen, guys, I can't even imagine the things that you guys have been through in your life. And there's some some kids coming from some really tough areas in, in North Jersey. I don't know what it's like to be a 1617 year old, 18 year old boy coming from an inner city area with all the things you've seen and you've gone through. I really don't know what that's like. I know you're going to go through other challenges in your life. Capital T truth. You're going to experience some really difficult things. While those things that have happened to you most likely are not your fault. Now, they're 100% your responsibility to to understand and to deal with them. Because if not, you're going to repeat that cycle. So just the boys hearing that and like, OK, I'll acknowledge this has been challenging for you, but what are you going to do with it now? So when when you hear things like that, are you still dealing with that same type of thing with the guys that you're working with? And I'm sure the avatars, most of the men are, you know, in their thirties, 40s and 50s, right? Speaker 2 Yeah, it's it's such a fine thing because trauma, I get it. Things happen to us, but in my current groups of men that I'm working, it's not currently happening to you. It's like, hey, you're not going to believe what happened to me 40 years ago. Like, dude, is that really the trauma or is the trauma the story that you've told yourself about it for 40 years? I I'm careful because hey, bad things happen to me too. I'm not minimizing that, but that happened to you. But what you're doing now is up to you. You can change that. But in a lot of therapy there, there, it's really a fine line to walk because I'm not trying to minimize what happened to anybody. I I always want to be cautious of that. And but yeah, it's like you are responsible for what you're doing today. I mean, even the person that maybe even did that to you and me too isn't even alive anymore. So having that resentment and living in that past is not helping you in any way today. From Addiction to 38 Years of Sobriety So Bill, you mentioned that you've been sober for 37 years and first and foremost, congratulations. Absolutely tremendous. What a what an inspiration and role model that you are. For anyone who's listening to this podcast right now, while I definitely would recommend people go back and listen to that episode 197 in January 24, just to give people a little bit of an idea about that. Like talk to me a little bit about who Bill Matthews was before, you know, before you got into using it. If I remember correctly, it was pretty early. It was like in your like 10/11/12 year old time frame. And then like, what was it that really like that got you hooked into it? Speaker 2 Yeah, I took my first drink at 11 years old and it's interesting because I lots of people start drinking because there's this hole that needs to be filled. Drinking actually created a hole for me. It actually pushed everybody away. However, it does give you a sense of ease and comfort around other people. So that lack of confidence, lack of speaking up for yourself. When I was drinking or using other mind altering chemicals, I was, I was able to be more outgoing and whatever. And then you get addicted to that feeling. Whatever, whatever class. They teach young boys how to deal with conflict and and sadness and depression. I must have missed that class. I missed a lot of classes in school, but I definitely missed that one. So alcohol and drugs was never my problem. And that sounds weird to people to say they were my. They became my solution to my problem. My problem was I had this sense of disease. I was uncomfortable and awkward and didn't know how to express myself. So I masked it with drugs and alcohol and slowly separated myself from everybody and everything I loved and ended up in a bedroom at mom's house because that's where every self respectable young man ends up. Back at Mommy's and I had a kid that I hadn't seen in a little while and a girl that had left me with my child and I sat and prayed and begged God to please bring her back. And as I'm drinking a 12 pack of Miller Ginuwine draft and back in the 80s that was the big deal. And God said no, it didn't happen. And through a course of events, I ended up in rehab, first jail, sitting on a metal bench at 21 years old, seemingly lost everything that I loved and had no direction. And I felt like my life was garbage. There's no way I'll ever return from this. And then I was introduced into a program of recovery that outlined my problem. And it wasn't my drinking, it was my thinking. And they give you a process of some steps to take that can uncover, discover and discard those things have been blocking you from God or whatever you believe in and get a new solution and connect with other people that are feeling the same way. And it's worked for me for next week, actually May 20th. I have 38 years of sobriety and I am. It's the foundation of everything I coach and teach. Anything I say would never go against that foundation of the recovery community that I found. And you know what I've learned now without a without a test, there's no testimony, you know, all of that that I went through needed to happen so that I could be here to potentially share my story with another young man or woman. And they go, Oh my God, I'm not the only one suffering from this. You know what I mean? To think that what was the most tragic thing that ever happened to me can become the actual thing that can benefit others. It's pretty wild. And you have to be willing to accept the task of being able to do that. Because now I'm speaking on stages and I'm in front of people. And if you were anything like me, man, I was the kid hiding in back of class, like wishing, hoping no one picked me, hiding, you know? And then then of course I was upset I never got picked right. But now to be out and and sharing this, but turning tragedies into trophies and and just it's it's pretty wild because I got just so many stories to share with other people because yeah, me too. You know, when you you talk about sharing emotion in front of these boys and me too, You know, me sharing a personal experience gives other people the the freedom to go, man. Yeah, I feel that way too. Shaping Strong, Resilient Leaders for the Future And now you have a, a common bond with another human being. You know, 'cause we're so alone in today's society, we're more connected and less connected than it than ever. But tribe is the solution. I don't care if it's church, CrossFit, the recovery community, whatever you we need to be connected. We're vibrational human beings, and when you're around another person, you can feel them and connect with them in a way that I truly believe is necessary and is missing. Speaker 1 I, I totally agree with that. You said something about, you know, you were, you were in that spot where you're praying to God, like bring her back, right? And it's those things where there are times that God, you know, keeps us from getting what we want to give us what we need. And I think that's what happened in that situation because your life would have been totally different. I just, I shared a really personal story with the boys yesterday and I talked about a moment, you know, when I was still married, when, you know, I there was just this moment where I was like, how is this happening to me? And, and how could this happen to me? And there was, you know, like it was around infidelity. And I was just like, how can I go on? How can I continue with this? I have 3 kids, you know this is going to lead to a divorce and what? And I and I went back and I said the story that I was telling myself in that moment was because of this are the family was going to separate and my kids were going to deal with more struggles because of it. And I said, looking back on that moment, this is January 2020, I, that was one of the five greatest moments of my whole life. Like if that didn't happen, then I wouldn't have done XY and Z and I wouldn't have started the Building men podcast and the program and, and, you know, met Julie and got engaged. And there's so many like unbelievable things that happened in my life, But I had to go back and say, this isn't the end of the story. This is just, this is a chapter in the book. But you'll, you'll overcome this thing that you're going through you because, you know, you're, you're a resilient dude. So I shared that story yesterday with the boys and, you know, there are times where I just, I make a decision to just go a couple layers deeper with them. And some of the stuff the boys were sharing after that, it really, I was so proud of them for having the courage to to talk about things that typically young men don't talk about. You know, they it's you know, they'll go, they'll talk about what's on TV sports. They'll talk about the girl with the big boobs. They'll talk about, you know, nothing about anything about emotions. Or so it was, it was pretty cool to watch. I would love to know though, Bill like. When you talk about you started 11, but it wasn't the alcohol that was the problem. It was that was the that's how the problem was showing up. You know, that was the the thing that how the problem was like basically rearing its ugly head, but it was below the surface. You talked about sitting on a, you know, on the, the steel bench or metal bench. You talked about living in your mom's basement, the a meetings. Do you remember the like the moment was there like a like a moment where you're like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. I can't live like this, like like this is it for me. I'm starting a whole new thing. Speaker 2 I had been making excuses for a while. I was doing and it wasn't that bad. And, and you know, I could stop anytime I want. I'm certainly not an alcoholic because an alcoholic in my mind was somebody living on the streets and wears A trench coat and a little bit of puke, you know, can't keep his his life together. And I'm a 21 year old kid, you know, there's no way I'm that my brother died of alcoholism, you know, on Christmas Day, 1983. He was 32 years old. And he, he died as a result of drinking. And I still at that point didn't know what an alcoholic was until I went to my first 12 step meeting. And they described that an alcoholic, when they're not drinking, all they're doing is thinking about drinking. And when they start drinking, they don't know when to stop or they can't stop. And I was like, Oh my goodness. Speaker 1 Our young men are struggling, we see a lack of positive male role models and in school we're dealing with truancy, we're dealing with failing grades, behavioural issues, we're dealing with isolation, aggression, students post high school, we're dealing with an alarming suicide rate, we're dealing with poverty, we're dealing with incarceration. As a society we recognize we have a problem. We've tried everything with limited to no success at all. So what's the answer? It's a foundational mentoring program. It's building men. They really do like show you a. Speaker 2 Better way and a better path. Doing the right things when people aren't even looking. Speaker 3 It shows a lot and it shows who you are as a person. Building men means a lot to me 'cause it's somewhere where I can go and open up and talk about things that I I don't talk to other people about. It taught me that like talking is something is naturally something you're supposed to do. Talking about your feelings. Also giving me the guidance that not other, not a lot of other kids have gotten. And it's also showed me how to become more of a leader since now I'm representing something. Now I'm in a group. Speaker 1 Once a month, young men in the Building Men program come together for a full day experience, an opportunity to connect, grow and challenge themselves. These meetings go beyond the classroom, creating a space where they can share their wins and struggles. Build brotherhood and develop the leadership skills needed for success. Speaker 3 Building my means to me is the steps in order for a boy to become a man. You have to go through adversity, hardships, challenges, everything in order to become a man. I love how when I go there, I'm held accountable. If I say I want to start doing something one meeting, I either have to have it done. They're showing that I'm taking steps by the next meeting. It's just, it's a great program. A lot of kids should do more stuff like this to a lot of especially men don't. Boys and men don't don't have nobody they can talk to where they feel they can talk to. So having a closed same space feeling great and impacting my mindset a lot, it helped me focus on my school work more. It helped me communicate more to other people. You know, they like he tells us real stories about his life and that kind of touched me as a person because the same stuff that he's going through, I'm going through. And you know, I was going through a difficult time and we were both going through difficult times. So him speaking out about it made me, made me realize it's OK to speak out about my struggles as well. A place where you could be your authentic self and feel like you won't be judged for it. A place that we've created a culture, an edified culture for our young boys to level up and mature as young boys in this world. Speaker 1 Through hands on activities and meaningful discussions, young men engage with 12 character pillars, from accountability and authenticity to resilience and self-discipline, building a foundation for lifelong leadership. Speaker 3 Got to meet the the founder Dennis and you know, he just seemed like a down to earth cool person. He seemed like he knew us. He seemed like he knew what we were going through without us telling him what we were going through. They have become a small community in itself that probably would never have happened if it wasn't for this program. If it wasn't for the Building Men program, I feel like I would not be at the level that I'm at right now in my life. Building Men has definitely changed my life. It has made me a better person, a better friend, a better son, a better counselor, a better mentor. Speaker 2 Overall, it's just been a great experience and I look forward to it growing to bigger and better things. Speaker 3 That I feel this interconnected with like the staff, not only the male staff, but like like everyone and the kids. I mean, we feel much more connected than I ever thought I would be as an intern. Speaker 1 This is more than a program. This is a movement. It's about shaping strong, resilient leaders who will impact their schools, communities and beyond. That's what Building Men is all about. Let's build the next generation of men who will lead, serve and change the world. How Community Sustains Long-Term Sobriety Somebody just completely described what I'm how I'm living. Because when I was not partying, I was constantly just thinking about getting loaded. And when I started, I didn't know when I was going to stop, you know, and I had made it. That's when I made the first decision that man, maybe alcohol is my problem or is my, you know, I is causing me problems, that's for sure. And what if I began to look at life and and take some direction from some people and do some different things, And that's when it that all when that you know that all began. Speaker 1 What did you relapse after you were making that decision? Speaker 2 I have never had a drink since my first meeting of Wow, my first 12 step meeting. And that's not everybody's story, that's just my story. But I did exactly what was described to me. Get involved, get in the herd people. Stay in the middle, you know, you don't get attacked. If you look at a herd, the people that are in the middle, the animals in the middle aren't they get attacked. It's the ones that live on the edges, you know, that are vulnerable. And I've just been connected. I mean, there's guys that I've gotten sober with and we've been sober together for over 30 years. These people have been with me. My, they were at my wedding or they were my best man or they, you know, watch, walk me through my parents passing away. I had a grandchild pass away and they're, you know, this is what we do. You have you build actual bonds with human beings through recovery's interesting because they say in the book that I read that it's from steerage to captain's table. You know, when, when the boat goes down, we're all the same. So in an old freight, you know, an old ship, the people with money, we're up at the top with the captain, the people with no, no money, right, We're at the in the bottom. But when the ship sank, they're all equal. You go to the meetings that I'm go to, there's nobody separate from or different from. We all are equal too, because we're all suffering from the same thing. You know, Dennis, for a lot of years, I knew what kind of shoes everybody wore because I was looking at everybody's feet. My head was down. And through a process of all the work that I've done, my head slowly wrote, you know, was raising up. And I can look you in the eye. I'm not better than. I'm not worse than. But I measure up, man. And that's all I ever wanted. I wanted to measure up, fit in, feel comfortable and also to know somebody had my back. Yeah. Speaker 1 You know, I didn't realize that it was once you made the decision to go to that a a meeting that that was it. You had taken your last drink. How how frequent does that happen? Like how much of an outlier are you that there there was no relapse I? Speaker 2 Don't even know there's a statistic. It's not as it's not as popular as I'd like it to be. A lot of the men that I've met have had some stint of sobriety and then for some reason they go back. It's just like anything else, you know, if you jump into something, you do all the things. The here's the example I give. I had somebody that had some plantar fasciitis issue and I said, hey, if you do this calf stretch, it'll go away. It'll help. It's been my experience. And they started doing it and it got better. Then a couple months later they're like, man, my plantar fasciitis is coming back. I'm like, really? How often are you doing the stretching? Oh, I don't, I don't stretch. I don't stretch anymore. I'm like, well, why? Oh, 'cause it got better. I'm like, it got better because you were stretching. It's the same way with recovery there. I have rituals and things that I do on a daily basis. I'm an active member. I still go to 12 step meetings. Not because if I don't go, I'm that's not it. I'm there. So when the new person walks in, I could say, hey, you're in the right place, right? Speaker 1 So with that say, I'm sure you've sponsored many people as well, you know, on that journey, or even people that just reach out to you for, for connection or support. What does that sound like? If, if someone says to you like, Hey, I, I messed up, I, I, I got drunk again, I drank. What is that like? What does that sound like? Speaker 2 Well, they typically, sadly, a lot of them don't, don't make it back because it's so humiliating that they feel like they let everybody down. But that's not how it works. I've never felt like anybody letting me down when they go do what they do and then they they use terms like, oh, I lost five years of sobriety. I'm like, hey, you didn't lose anything. Those five years still happen. You had a lapse in judgement based on not doing some things. Let's get you back to doing those things right and welcome. And you know, that's that's the key. It's like welcome, brother, man, you, you did. What happens when you stop doing the things that got you to where you are right? Speaker 1 One of the quotes that I said to the boys yesterday is one day or day one, like make, make that decision instead of, you know, putting it up on the shelf thinking, Oh yeah, someday I'm going to do that. Why not today? Why not start right now over the the past 30-7 years and 51 weeks? How often are you getting that? Like oh man, I could go for a like a ice cold MGD right now. Or is that passed you by? Speaker 2 I couldn't that it I that doesn't even cross my mind anymore. It just it just does not look appealing to me. And early in sobriety it did. It was like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm never going to be able to do this right. There's a difference between saying I can't drink and I'm choosing not to drink. 1 is still the victim and one is I'm making a choice to not drink. Over the weekend, I was running, helping a buddy run a race and there's some aid stations and they're like, hey, we got some fireball shots. And I said, oh, every time I drink, I break out. And they're like, really? And I'm like, yeah, I break out in handcuffs and they just all start laughing. I'm like, I'm serious. You ain't got enough alcohol in this tent for for me, everybody gets a kick out. It's it's a way to really make the awkwardness of, oh, I don't drink. I'm an alcohol that doesn't come out of my mouth. I'm just like, no thanks. Yeah, I'm good. When I drink. I end up in places like other States and other people's houses and all kinds of stuff, so. Speaker 1 It's, it's something that I've noticed too, Like if you go out and you're like, I'm just going to have a water, you definitely get like, like a little bit of a what the Hell's wrong with you? Like you can't can have a drink, he can have a good time. So I, I appreciate you saying that. And then it is good to have like to prepare for that moment, like to rehearse it. And if you're a young man listening to this right now, going to a party where you know, there's going to be substances that you're not comfortable with at all. Like think about like, what's your, what's your go to line? What are you going to say to be able to get yourself into a more comfortable space? Finding Purpose in Unanswered Prayers and Loss So it's just like, you know, preparation for an instant like that as well. Speaker 2 Yeah, early on in sobriety, they say if you're going to go to a party, you know, just just order something just of seltzer water or cranberry water something. So no one's going to offer you a drink if you have a drinking in your hand, right. But a lot of people think like, Oh my God, you can you can never go anywhere. Alcohols around. It's like not a lot. Many times I've been the designated driver. I'm like, hey guys, drink up, man. If I could drink, I'd be drinking. I, I will be the designated driver. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. And when you're spiritually fit, you can go anywhere. Anybody that I don't get sweats because people are drinking around me. I'm like, wow, man. I, it's kind of interesting to watch the party people start out, you know, prim and proper and pretty soon they're, they're doing, they're a lot looser. You know what I mean? I just always got too loose. I do want to get back to something that you were talking about, like things that happened to us. We think like we're, you know, your, your, your marriage. And like, Oh my God, this is like the worst thing that ever happened to me. And I was talking about praying to God. And God said no. And there's a Garth Brooks song called Thank God for Unanswered Prayers. And it's like he's talking about he's with his wife. He goes back to his hometown and he runs into his old high school girlfriend, and he looks at the girlfriend, looks at his wife, and then looks up at heaven and says, thank God for unanswered prayers. And it's the same way for me because obviously if I wouldn't have had that happen, I wouldn't have met my wife. I've been married for 34 years, you know, and I have a 28 year old son with my wife, right. And you know, I have a soon to be 42 year old daughter from, you know, a childhood. You know, when I was young 18, I had my daughter who and I've always been a very active father in her life ever since I got sober. So that was great. But at the time of the events, we don't understand why things are happening. And I just shared this story with some other people in, in a group facilitated group class that we don't know why things happen. But when you look back, you'll realize, oh, that needed to happen the same way we're talking about. So my wife and I, we tried to have a child and we had miscarriage, you know, and it was tragic and it was heartbreaking. And then we tried again and another miscarriage 5 * 5 times to watch my wife go through that pain and and me too was really really tough. She got pregnant and the doctor for some reason decided just to treat her like normal everyday patient and she carried my son full term. When he was five years old he walked up to me and he said hey dad, I'm a gift from God. Huh. And I said, yeah, he goes, and God gave me to you, huh? And I'm like, yeah, son, I'm so glad he gave you to me. He said. I want to let you know, before God gave me to you, I was waiting a long time. Speaker 1 What's wild? Speaker 2 I, I don't know what we can't see, but I, I believe in something for sure. I don't know what causes him to say that or what he's connected to, but it's happening. The reason I bring up the story is because there had to be 5 deaths of my children, 5 miscarriages for that little boy to be born. So whatever anybody that's listening to to this right now, going through a depth of of relationship, a job, whatever it is, it has been my experience that that death has to happen. So what's supposed to happen is born for you. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 And I can look back at everything that's happened. Whoa, that needed to happen so this can happen. So trust that whatever we're going through right now is so something absolutely amazing can happen. And if you're telling yourself that story, you're going to look for that amazing thing versus telling yourself the story and living in the story of this is the most tragic thing that ever happened and there's no way my life is ever going to get better from here. Speaker 1 Yeah, dude, that's that's a powerful story and for a 5 year old to to be able to communicate what he did in that way is that's next level. Speaker 2 He's amazing. Yeah. He's a, He's a, he's a great young man and just, it was evidence of telling me something that I needed to hear. And there's a, a line that says nothing leaves a man in everlasting ignorance more than contempt prior to investigation and, and prior to an awakening of, of myself, I didn't believe in anything that I couldn't see, you know, even my wife being a metaphysical like practitioner and Reiki and there's crystals and I'm like, yeah, go ahead, do your thing. And the fact is, who am I to say that that's that's it's works or doesn't work? The power of belief is if you ain't read a book called the Biology of Belief, Doctor Bruce Lipton, it's like, hey, if somebody thinks this crystal is helping them, guess what? It's fucking helping them because we're telling we're we're affecting ourselves at at a cellular level by the thinking that we're using the placebo effect too many things and we can go into all it's it's the power of thinking. You become what you think about. If you believe it's going to work, it's going to work. And it also if you believe it's not going to work. Yeah, you're right. It's all based on story. What's the story you want to tell yourself? I mean, there was the what are the back in the 1800s, you know, they saw the snake oil salesman, the cure all. I bet it worked for a lot of people who believed that that was the answer. People go to the doctors and before they there, there's like clinical studies that before they even walk into the room, they already feel better 'cause they believe they're going for the solution. This is where I find the solution. So as coaches like yourself, myself, you can elicit that change because they believe it like you can help. Speaker 1 It's interesting, some of the, the boys that are coming into the program, when I first go into a school, they'll typically populate the, the room and the auditorium with boys that are more quote UN quote at risk. And they, they struggle with behavior, with academic, social, emotionally, with connection. And initially when they sit there and they look around, they're like, oh man, like this is a Mötley Crüe. We're sitting here amongst the other kids that I know are getting in trouble and, and I walk in and the first thing I say is like, listen, I don't care what has happened to you in your life. You know how people have judged you from the time you were born until the time you walked into this room. Sitting in front of me, there are 100 leaders. Like I look at you and I see so much potential and, and the things that you are able to accomplish. Every single one of you is the greatest young man I've ever met. And as soon as I start talking to them, it's like some of them are like, all right, whatever, dude, But some of them are like, no one's ever thought about me in that way. And I purposefully asked to not, I don't want to hear about their behavior records. I don't want to hear about their grades. I don't want to have any preconceived notions. As soon as they walk in like this young man that's standing in front of me right now is capable of doing whatever he wants to do in the world. And so that's what happens. It's like they find someone who can carry the, the belief in them until they're able to carry the belief for themselves, right. And so that's that whole identity shift is a, is a big piece and the real quick an identity. I just, I just want to close the loop on the with with the, the sobriety piece as you were talking about. Reshaping Your Identity Through Belief and Action I, I was wondering for you, what was harder? Like what was the harder part? Was it was it the process of getting sober or was it building the new identity after getting sober? Speaker 2 Letting go of what I thought was important to me, the friends, the, the reputation I built and all the things that I was going to lose was really difficult until a process of staying sober and doing some different actions and building this different identity that I looked back and go, I didn't lose anything. I gained all of this because I didn't, you know, a lot of these kids and people we talked to, they think, oh, this is just the way I am. Like identity is a fixed thing. You know, like, no, it's not just the way you are. It's just the way you are thinking right now. Identity is not fixed. Identity is created by the actions that you repeatedly do every day. So if you want transformation, first it's belief and then it's behaviors, right? These two things that that happen one after the other when you change your beliefs. I began to believe, wow, I'm, I am an alcoholic and I began to believe that if I do what these people are saying, I'm going to get the result they're saying. So I believe that my behaviors changed because no change in action that nothing's you got to change your actions. And I, that's what began to to happen. And I became something brand new. And I talked to people that never knew me when I was drinking and doing a thing. And they're like, you did what? Like they see a completely different man like, yeah, this is who I was, but this is who I am now. And you walking into an auditorium of all them young men and casting, you were casting a spell on them, which we know is a word or a collection of words with great influence. You did that on purpose to elicit a result from them. Words are powerful. Words matter. They create matter. You can completely change someone day by saying boy, your shirt's a little tight. What is that? Your sister's versus man looks like you've been working out. You look good 2 completely different. You just made somebody completely feel different. And how often do people don't even understand this power of words and what they're creating. I watched the lady in a meeting and she walked up to a girl and said, what? What's your name? I've never seen you around here before. She goes, oh, my name's Sally. She says, oh, I'll probably forget. I'm terrible with names. And I didn't say anything until after the meeting. And I walked up to the woman that I know and I go, do you know what you said to that girl? She said what I said you asked her her name. Right after she said her name, you said, oh, I will probably forget. I'm terrible with names. So let me ask you, what's her name? She says, I don't know. I'm like, of course you don't know because you, she, she didn't even, she wasn't even aware that she said the words. That's the classes we don't get in school, right? The power of words and language. It's like, wow, I'm telling myself I'm not good at this. Things will never change. You're right. Speaker 1 Right. Whether you believe you can or believe you can't, you're right. Either way it. Speaker 2 It Yeah. Speaker 1 So shifting into more of the enlisted philosophy and, you know, talking about the power of words, what are some of the most common phrases that you hear that are that are destructive, that are people that people are saying without even realizing the impact of the words that they're saying? Speaker 2 In recovery, they think men think they've done so much harm, there's no way they deserve to be successful. They don't deserve to have a good life. So they're not even looking for ways to overcome or put their life back together, right? Or even with men my age, they think, oh, I'm too old. There's no way I can start a new job. There's no way I can ever repair this marriage. They, they just are constantly looking at the problem instead of the solution. But a lot of men, they get sober, they just get sober, you know, and, and I say sobriety killed some of my, my good friends. And that's an odd thing, But I've watched a lot of people just remove alcohol and they're stuck with the problem and they, they don't do anything but the, the, the internal dialogue is I can't change. Just as this is just the way I am. This is my personality. It's way too late. You know, there's no way to start over. These are all just limiting beliefs. They, they don't even see a way out. They're just stuck like, I'm just lucky to be alive. No, you're not lucky to be alive. You're blessed to be alive. Now what are you going to do with that? What do your kids deserve? What is your parent? Whatever, you know, situation that you're in. Speaker 1 So you mentioned before that when you started drinking, I have had your first drink at 11, and it just became the thing in your life for the next decade or so, getting into some tough situations or being alongside of you for the tough situations. But you said it wasn't alcohol or drugs or substances that that was the culprit. That was the problem. It was a thing that was below the surface that that was the problem and alcohol was just the result that that's how you were dealing with it. So when you started in, in a A and started doing that work and stop drinking, what did you realize? Like what was the thing that you needed to to overcome? What was the the the shift that had to happen for you to stay sober for the next 38 years? Extreme Ownership and Effective Communication in Relationships Stop being the victim. If you had my dad, if you were raised where I was raised and had my childhood, you'd be doing this too. I was projecting. They did this to me, right? Instead of going, I did this to me. I, I needed to take ownership. So the, the, the program of recovery has a unique way of uncovering, discovering and discarding these things, right? And you do an inventory of sorts. It's a story you write down your list of resentments and how it made you feel and, and who did it and all these things. But then it really has you do something very unique and say, OK, what part did you play? I had to start taking responsibility for my life. And once I took responsibility, I can't blame anybody but myself. I'm I'm responsible from my life today. Maybe when I was a kid I didn't. And these beliefs that I had about the world were designed to protect me at a time when I was young, but they're not helping me now. Speaker 1 It's interesting when whenever I get into an argument, a disagreement, when when there's a problem with the relationship, I've trained myself to ask the question, what? What part of this can I own? What is, what is my piece and what's going on? Because it's never 100 and 0 right? There's there's typically something and it's actually, it's really impacted my relationship with Julie as well. You know, whenever there's something that it's a little bit scratchy, we both are like, you know what, like I'm going to own this piece of it right now, Like I'm going to own this. And this is as we're walking through it, I just want you to know I'm going to own this isn't it? And it sounds like this is what you're saying. And that's really helped us overcome some of those challenges in our relationship. But it is, it's taking extreme ownership, it's taking accountability for the for your piece in it. And as I mentioned before, it might not going to be totally your fault, but it now it's your responsibility to deal with that issue. Speaker 2 I love this cause being married and being together with my wife for 35 years, realizing through some of the schooling that I've done are my head is a projector and my eyeballs is a lens in which I'm see the world. I'm watching a completely different movie than you and everybody. I've created my reality based on my beliefs, my teachings, all of that. For years I tried to convince my wife how she needed to see things and see things my way. And as a youngster not understanding how to communicate, when men don't get their way, they raise, their voice just gets a little bigger and your spouse will be quiet and you think you won the argument. But I didn't. I lost the argument when I learned how to, when I grew up. And now when my wife is not agreeing with me, I start asking why do you see things that way? And when I start asking questions now I have empathy. Like wow, she's watching a different movie, she was raised different, she's female. Now we're having a discussion. I don't need her to believe anything about or convince her to see things. Anyway, I ask questions or why she sees things the way she does. And a great tool that my wife and I have done. And it might sound funny if we're having a disagreement, typically what happens is you get into the sympathetic nervous system, little fight or flight, breath, heart rate, you know, you're getting heated. And my voice is getting to a place. If she sees that in me, and I love my wife and we have a wonderful relationship, so I'm just bringing up examples. But if she sees that, all she has to say to me, Dennis, is, hey, where's your sunshine? And when she says that I have to, it's the rule. I have to pause and I have to take 3 intentional breaths. Breath is unlocked from reacting to responding. It changes everything down. Regulate to the parasympathetic. I'm coming from a rest digest and I'm good. And guess what? I get to do it to her as well when 'cause this is not the we made an agreement. This is not how we talk and this rarely happens. I want to emphasize that I'm trying to No wonder I have a great relationship. My goal is my wife. If my wife was in a room with 100 other women, she knows that she's treated better than anybody. That's why I love my wife, man, so much. And I have an amazing relationship. But it's such a tool because we that communication of where am I coming from, what part do I play? And being the other day, my wife, we have a windshield wiper problem on my wife's car. One side the sprayer works, the other side doesn't. OK, can you fix it? Yeah, I'll fix it. I'm looking at YouTube videos. Oh, you just got to do this. None of it worked, so I shut the hood. I'm done. She comes at me again. Do you need me to just call the mechanic and get this fixed? That's not what I heard her say. What I heard her say is you're a horrible husband. You can't do this. I can't count on you. You're not a good mechanic. You've really let my me down. In fact, I'm questioning my marriage with you. I I started to defend myself based on a story that I was telling. That's not what she said. She said, hey babe, would you like me to call? That's all she said. But my eternal storyteller that lives on top of my shoulder, that is out to get me but needs me for transportation is got a great imagination. That's not what she said. And when I started to respond, I'm like, hey, wow, am I telling myself a story? You know what? Let me get a mechanic to fix this. I've tried to fix it. It's, it's just, it's a little more complicated than I thought. Speaker 1 I, I love that and I appreciate you sharing that, that with us as well. I, I felt it too when you were like, you know what I heard we've all been there before as well. It's interesting. The, the thing that I try to get to whenever there's something going on in a relationship, but it doesn't just have to be a romantic relationship. It could just be with, you know, a family member of a friend. What, what have you is I try to visualize the, the difference between, you know, say you and I are in a disagreement, Bill, there's a fence in between us, right? And the fence in between us is the problem. And we're both looking at it from a different perspective with the fence being in the middle and the fence is the block of us being able to, to kind of get to that point the way I like to visualize it. And I, what I try to do is jump over the fence, right? And I'll jump over the fence. The problem is still there. It's still sitting there. But all I'm going to do is go stand next to you, put my arm around you, be like, hey, here's what I see. Is this problem, Are you seeing the same problem as me? Or is it, is it a different vantage point? Like what are you seeing right now? The problem is still existing. But because we're standing shoulder to shoulder looking at the problem now, we could be like, oh, here's what I'm seeing with it. You're seeing something different. Let me try to see it. Oh, let me stand next to you and see it. If I could see it in a little bit of a different way, there's something to that. And there's even the just like to actually do that, like if you're having a problem, go for a walk and talk about it because now you're, you're both walking and you're in the same direction or go for a drive. There's a lot of psychology around that as well, especially if you're, you're a big guy as well, right? Like, so if you're having a disagreement and you're 6 foot four and you're a muscular guy, it's, it can come across as a little bit more intimidating as well. So just being aware of how we're coming across and if we can do that more of a shoulder to shoulder type way, literally. And figuratively, it can help us get through whatever problem we're we're going through for. Speaker 2 Sure, I, I, you know, it's I, especially when it comes to men and women, if I want my wife to always feel safe to share what she's feeling, you know, so the foundation of that we have too is this is the long haul. There's no talk of divorce and we should just whatever, because when you live in that fragile environment and nobody's sharing with AI don't want a divorce. I just wanted to say I that made me feel a certain way, you know what I mean? So having commitment and some ground rules of how we communicate has has really helped tremendously. Speaker 1 I didn't think we're going to go ahead. I was going to say, I didn't think we're going to get into relationship advice on the this episode, but. Speaker 2 Well, it's like Mindo, what class did you go to in junior high school that taught you how to communicate with a woman and, and these different perspectives? And you know, in today's society, you, you don't get to talk to another man very often. That's I'm going to be 60 years old and I've been married to my wife for 34 years old. I had a gosh darn bullet when we got married. You know what I mean? Because men give up when it gets uncomfortable. Or I'll hear a man say I'm not completely happy with my wife. OK, Every relationship is going to get to this point. If you give up at this point, you're going to start a new relationship and you're going to be back to this point. When are you going to make it past this point? If you want what I got, you got to get past this point because I had to get through it too. Whether it's a job or sobriety or marriage, there is seasons and stages and it's like people. I never stood up in front of God in my family and said if I'm not completely satisfied, I get to leave my wife. I said no sickness and and and health. You know what I mean? And being able to walk through those uncomfortable times and not give up. And I'll tell the man, stop looking for all the reasons why you should leave your wife. Why don't you start looking for one why you should stay? Because once again, we don't believe what we see. We see what we believe when you're looking for all the reasons in ways that your wife isn't good to you or whatever, that's all you're going to see RES back in play. But if you start asking for what are the things that she does right and and things that you enjoy, you'll start seeing more of that. I was working with a client a a couple months ago. He just kind of humdrum like how you doing? Yeah, it's OK What's what's going on? Something like I'm like, hey, I want you at the end of the day to text me three things that happened positive today. He's like, really? I'm like, yeah, first day I only got 2. Second day I got 3. Did it for a week. I said, so how'd that go? Dude, that was amazing. I said, what happened? He goes, I started seeing positive things in my life. I said, do you think those things weren't there before? Said no. I said, well, good job, man. Now, now you're finding you're, you're finding what you're looking for. And, and you don't have to text me. He goes, hey, can I keep texting you? Man? I want to keep texting you. It's the same thing about the red car and the balloons or whatever we want to do. Start looking for reasons you can win, reasons you could survive, reasons you can stay sober, reasons that you can stay married, reasons to be happy. You will find what you're looking for. It's the way the brain works. Channeling Addictive Tendencies into Positive Discipline Love that. So I want to I want to make sure that we we get into one of the main reasons why we're why we're chatting today, Bill and more move into what's coming up in in your life. But I'll start the the questioning with the the whole idea of like, like addictive tendencies and addictive personalities. And you've spent over a decade in your life and that was a thing that you were dealing with with addiction. Does that disappear or does it get redirected? And what I mean by that is now you're, you're in the process of training for a 200 mile ultra trail run. It takes a lot of dedication, it takes a lot of, you know, stick to itiveness and, and that resiliency to be able to get to the point where you're, you have to get up and run every single day to get to the point where you can run 200 miles. So do you have the personality that it's just like I'm addicted to, to running now and I'm going to channel that energy in a different direction? Or do the two things have nothing to do with one another? Speaker 2 I'm not a psychologist, but boy have I heard this reason why people want to put me down for what I do. Oh, you're now you're just addicted to running? If that's what you need to tell yourself to justify why you don't do it, then fine. And if I'm going to be addicted to anything, I'd rather be addicted to something that's really good. I believe we're all addicted to something my buddy told me. Man, I wish I was as disciplined as you. I said, dude, you are just as disciplined as me, but you're disciplined smoking Marlboros, drinking rock stars and watching Netflix. I just chose to be focused on something else. Addictive personalities. I, I don't know, we're probably all addicted to something. You know what I mean? That we all enjoy something that we do on a daily basis. But do I think I, because you'll hear that about 12 steps too. Now people are addicted to go to meetings. I, I don't know, but if they're finding hope there and and and connection there, then good. So I think addiction, probably it's a bad name, which is funny to say, but yeah, I my process of running, you know, when you even in my bio, when you were just talking, you said athlete, an endurance athlete. I remember the first marathon, I, I, I ran and, and they had an entry form and it said athlete's signature. I, I've never wrote my name next to something that said I'm an athlete. Yeah. As a result of doing these things daily basis, I changed my identity and now I'm an athlete. I'm a runner on these things because of the actions that I've been taking every day. But I certainly didn't set out to go run 200 miles. I just wanted to get off the couch and go run a mile on my wife's treadmill because I was unhealthy as I was sober externally, man, life was really bitching. Had all the things, but I was, you know, 225 lbs and it was all in a place that no man wants it and it was covered up by an extra large shirt. And I thought that it's too late. And I got up off the couch one day. I don't know what was the driving force other than I just tired of being sick and tired. And I got on that treadmill. I ran a mile. That was in 2011 and I've run well over 25,000 miles since then. It started this journey of physical transformation and then mental transformation and I found a man that I I never knew before and that's a man that could do some really hard shit and not give up. And that's a large reason why I do what I do. People say, why would you want to go run 100 miles? It started with a commitment to my mother. My mother was my mother's passed away. She passed away from lung cancer. But on her deathbed, literally, I held her hand and said, mom, I'm going to run your age in miles. And she was 72 years old and I've never run 72 miles. But I figured, OK, I'll figure out a way. And I started looking for ways to do that and I found 100 mile foot race and I signed up. It was in San Diego, which sounded like the best weather ever, but it wasn't on the beach. It was inland hot. It was horrible. But I set out to keep my commitment to my mother and I, I started running that race. I trained, I did all the things. And at mile 72, I, I had a pacer with me. At mile 72, I, it was night, full moon stopped at mile 72. I looked at my watch and I looked up at heaven and said, mom, we, we did it. And I cried and I joked because I I cried because I still had a marathon to go. Speaker 1 More than a marathon. Speaker 2 Race, yeah, I I kept, I kept my commitment to my mother. Now the next part of this race was keeping a commitment to myself to finish a hard thing. There's something happens in the dark of a race. It gets really dark mentally and physically, and that voice shows up telling you to stop. Why are you doing this? This is ridiculous. There's no way you'll ever finish. And that's the battle I love. It's like, how long can you stay in that and not quit? And I push myself through that, watching people quit all over the place, get to the finish line with my wife and understand that I can complete really tough things. So that's why I do the things that I do endurance wise is to meet the guy that shows up in the dark. Because when life get when you do hard things, you know what, you learn how to do hard things. I do hard things on purpose. So when hard things happen in life, Dennis, I've already been here. People are panicking. They don't know what to do. I am breathing low and slow. I'm like, hey, we got this. That's my goal. Do I ever panic or get up? Yes, of course. But ultimately, the more I do hard things, the more I'm going to be able to handle harder things and walk through them with a sense that other people are like, man, how does he handle that? You know, because when you put yourself in that position of like fight through that over and over again. So, but now preparing for this, I've never run a 200 mile endurance run races in a race. I'm not going to be racing anybody. There'll be racers in the front. That's not me. I'm my only competition is me. Speaker 1 IA couple things that you said there really resonate. 1 is one of the things that I, these are just lessons, right? That I'm, that I, that I use on a regular basis when I'm talking to young men. And one of the lessons is like, especially with social media, like stop comparing yourself to other people really. Like, it's like comparison is the thief of joy. You can use people for a bit of motivation. Like, hey, like this might get me sparked or going, or maybe it's a text that I'm sending to Bill that'll but compare yourself to you yesterday. Like that's the man that you should be comparing yourself to. And one of our healthy habits that we talked about is intentional discomfort. Like can you do something that you know is going to be challenging, you know is going to suck and do it anyway? And the more that you do those difficult things intentionally, the more you're able to do difficult things because you start to build up this different identity as a young man who is able and capable of doing those things. So I, I really appreciate just the, the, the way that you, that you frame that Bill. And the one question I have too is like the, the guy that shows up in the dark is do you actually like we all have that, the, the Billy the little devil on her shoulder? Who's the guy that shows up in the dark for you? Speaker 2 It, I mean, he's literally described as Little Billy. It's that voice that for some reason it acts like it wants to keep you safe, but it just is keeping you stuck. It's full of limiting beliefs for some reason. It's a it's a negative bias. It's it's, it's a crippling thought of it wants to keep you comfortable. But overall, when you listen to that, nothing ever happened. Good for me saying no, I'm not going to be able to do that or I won't show up. Everything good for me then has happened on on the side of me saying yes and showing up and putting myself in a position. Just say yes, see what happens. The universe will put things in in your way. But that voice is still there. But it's a lot more quiet because I keep it's like at the end of a who's the boss at every label, you know, level of a video game. You got to beat him, but he's coming back. But now you got caught. Like, yo, I beat this mother before. Now I got confidence. Men don't keep their commitments to themselves. They'll keep their commitment to their their boss, their job, whatever. But then when it comes to keeping commitment to themselves, they start to negotiate. I'll start Monday, I'll start Tuesday. We lack confidence because we can't even depend on ourselves. You know what I mean? It it's like I'm teaching men and anybody I work with like keep the commitments to yourself. Have a floor, have a ceiling at minimum do this at the maximum. You could do that, but show up for yourself as jock. You know, so many of these these motivational guys. If if you hit snooze, that's the first loss of the day. But what's really great about what you were we were talking about earlier comparison. I'm not here to compete with you. That'd be silly. I couldn't compete with you. You are uniquely designed to be exactly doing what you're doing. I'm not here to compete with anybody. I'm here to contribute. That took that reframe. I'm not trying to speak better than him, coach better than him, do anything. How can I contribute? How can I serve that, that that made me? I'm comfortable in any room because I'm not competing with anybody. They might be competing with me and they can be all however they want, but I'm just here to. The Mental Game of Ultra-Endurance Running Contribute so tell us about tell us about the the actual race that you'll be competing in or you'll be running instead of I don't even want to take. Speaker 2 200 mile foot endurance race called the Tahoe 200. Amongst my core group of guys, no one's ever done at 200. And I'm the OG, the older guy. I'm 15 years older than most and well, the youngest one. But so I'm attempting to do something they've never done and I'm about 20. It's June 12th, so 28 days, 27 days away from doing that. I've been training for six months, doing some pretty wild things. Recently I ran 6 miles every four hours until I hit 100. I ran a 50K five days in a row to train for like, like it's going to be uncomfortable, it's going to be lack of sleep, It's all of those things. But I want to do hard things. I want to show men my age or any men that we're capable of doing hard things. If you just keep putting 1 foot in front of the other and showing up, I'm going to get to the finish line. And I've already seen myself finishing. I, I, there's not will I finish? It's like, how will I look when I'm done? Probably with a smile on my face and and doing it. You know, it's Jesse Itzler talks. He has a little thing that's pretty cool. If you guys have re YouTube Jesse Itzler. He's like he's got a friend and it's like, how are you feeling outstanding. You know, we don't get tired. He was he was in 100 mile race and he was feeling down and his buddies like, you know, man, how you feeling? No outstanding. He had him repeat this outstanding and he's like, you know, I just never get tired and he he got Jesse to start repeating this stuff. The guy's like a an ex Navy SEAL. I can't remember his name's not Kevin. But anyway, it's a great it's a great motivational pitch. So I'm going to have that in my head. I don't want to complain about how far I'm I'm going. I'm going to talk about how awesome instead of looking at a mountain going, man, I can't believe I got to go, how long it's going to take me to get to the top. I want to say how bitch is it? How bitching is it going to be to be at the top of that? You know, I'm going to be climbing 36,000 feet of elevation gain through 80 hours. My goal is to finish in 80 hours. And it's, it's going to be an epic, an epic journey. Speaker 1 So what does that look like? Are there they're like stages. Do you run 25 and stop? Do you run 50? Like what does that look like? Speaker 2 Got 105 hours to complete the race. You can divide it up however you want. There's no going back to the hotel and coming back. It's a it's, it's a race from you're looping around Lake Tahoe. There's 8 stations, anywhere from 11:50 miles apart from each other. For the first 80 something miles, I'll be completely by myself. The second-half of the race I'll have a pacer with me, which means a buddy that's going to traverse some of these this terrain with me, keeping me on course because I'm going to be extremely tired. In 100 mile race, there's no rest, you don't sleep at all. But in a 200 mile foot race, I'm planning on taking 490 minute naps and somewhere somehow they have sleep stations. You can lay down for 90 minutes and get back up. But you have minimal time. You got to be here by here by here. Or you do get what's called ADNF. It did not finish. They'll pull you off the course and say sorry, you missed a cut off. And there's 300 people doing this at one time and you would think 300 people. You're always going to be around people, man. You'll go miles without seeing some of you start questioning like man am I on the trail. Speaker 1 Direction for. Speaker 2 Markings. Yeah, it's and it gets scary. You're out at night, you're by yourself. Like, whoa, I got a big headlamp or waste lamp. Like I yeah, it's pretty spooky. Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's not the physical journey that you're going on, but I'm sure the mental and emotional are just as grueling and as as taxing. You know, one, just the longevity of it. And then two, like having to to fight off the person saying stop and being alone and being with your thoughts, right. It's a scary place when when you're alone with your thoughts. So I'm sure it all works. Yeah. Speaker 2 This is a mental game physically. Trust me, Dennis, you're going to see people if you ever look the people that I thought would be great quit people that you're wondering why she she even there finish the races because you can physically move for a long time. Mentally, people give up. I've seen some elite looking athletes give up. And just for all the women that are listening, there's a woman her name is Rachel Ekron. Rachel just won the the Coca Dona 250. She won the ultimate race, smashing the course record by three hours. She not just won the first female, she won the race, beat the another guy by well over an hour. She slept for 19 minutes. She averaged 13 minutes a mile for 250 miles. There is some elite people that do this. It's it's the human spirit. Dennis is is wild to witness. Wild. The majority of people that give up and quit did not do it because it was physical. It was they couldn't handle it. They couldn't sit in the pocket anymore. They couldn't endure it anymore. The people that have successful marriages, successful and sobriety in businesses, they're able to endure what it takes to get through it and not give up when it gets difficult. Running the Tahoe 200 for Stay in the Fight Charity So this is going to be an epic journey and it's going to be I ran my first 50 Miller when I turned 50 and now I'm going to run my 1st 200 Miller and I'll be 60 in October. Speaker 1 It's amazing, absolutely amazing. We got to run this back after after it's over. I'd love to just hear hear what the journey was like. And I'm, I'm sure you're going to come back and and journal about it and write down your thoughts. I would, I'm really interested to hear how it goes. I mean, I, I'll be thinking about you on on June 12th. That'll be exactly a year to the day after Juliet her ACL reconstruction surgery. So that date stands out to me in my head. And the other big piece of this bill is that not only are you running this race, but you reached out to me after we started the, the charity for my brother stay in the fight. And you said I'd like to to do this race and support your charity. So tell me a little bit about why, why you reached out? Like what was the reason why that stuck out to you? Speaker 2 First and foremost, man, because of what you've had to walk through and me watching that happen, that's, you know, they raised charities for the New York Marathon and Boston and all these other things. But I'm like, I've never did it for anything other than not for myself, but to prove to myself. I've never linked myself to anything. But when I started thinking, can I support can't, you're the first person that came to mind because, you know, I have your obituary, your brother's thing I've carried in my vest. I still have it, you know what I mean? Which I asked, Hey, would you mind sending me? I like to take your brother on a run. I'll have it with me on that race and the cause men's mental health. We, we talked briefly. It's like men suffer in silence and don't think they can talk to anybody. So if we can bring awareness to men's health and, and knowing that it's OK to talk and to create some discussion around that would be amazing in your, your 'cause I met your brother. So it all made sense to me. There was no doubt, you know, so if anybody's listening, let's links are in the bio or whatever, go to my, my Instagram and let's raise some funds. I don't care if it's $5 a dollar every, everything helps, you know, and contribute to such an amazing 'cause I don't want to just run for myself. If I could run for A cause, it'll help me not want to give up. It'll be extra motivation, like people are watching, people want to know that we can do difficult things and yeah, man, let's, yeah. Speaker 1 I truly, truly appreciate it, man. It's, yeah, it's just hearing that from you got me. I, I, I just, it means so much to me, to my family. So thank you, man. So before I ask last question of you, Bill, where can we find you? You know what you said your Instagram, give us that stuff. Well, we'll put it all in the show notes. But if somebody's listening right now. Speaker 2 You can look at my name, Bill Matthews, it's two TS in Matthews, or you can type in story state. What's the name of my my coaching business story State solutions I the framework that I coach is what's the story you're telling yourself? What's the state of being that's creating in your body? And as a result of that state, what actions are you taking or not taking will create the results that in the life that you have. So that's it. So mainly I'm on Instagram. I've posted every day there for years. I've never missed a day. I, I'm there every day. I share, I'm open for discussions. I want to help. I I want to be of service. Speaker 1 Appreciate that. And three sponsors I'm going to to just shout out first is finish the race apparel. That's where you can get all the things building men, sweatshirts, T-shirts, hats. There's also stay in the fight gear on on the finish, the race apparel site, and that's FTR apparel.com. Second sponsors become Stronger industries. That's Paige McNally. We had them on the podcast a long, long time ago, but Paige McNally and Become Stronger. They make badass steel maces, hammers, kettle bells, knives, like really, really cool equipment. And that's become-stronger.com. And then the last one is stay in the fight. So stay in the fight. The the idea behind it is that being strong doesn't mean being invincible. It means showing up every single day, even when life hits hard. That's the lesson that I learned from my brother Anthony. When we lost Anthony in 2024, it shook everything. Anthony carried people, but he fought his own battles with mental health. Anthony's friends and his family started Stay in the fight and his memory be. We did this because no one should have to do life alone and no one should have to skip therapy because they can't afford it. So Stay in the Fight makes therapy free. We provide mental health resources and therapy at no cost with no barriers. And this is for Anthony and for everyone still in the fight. So that's a stay in the fight charity. You Are the Creator of Your Own Reality So last question of the day, Bill Matthews, if someone was listening to this podcast, they've already got a tremendous amount of value. Truly appreciate just your level of, of vulnerability as you were sharing your journey, your story and, and, and what you're doing right now. Someone presses pause on the episode and they can only do one thing. And by doing this one thing, it could really impact the trajectory of their life. What's that one thing? Speaker 2 Life is not happening to you. Life is happening through you, through the stories that you're telling yourself. We are the creators of our own reality, based on the stories that we're telling ourselves. For a long time I was the victim of the actions of other people, not understanding that it was I was creating it to the story I told myself. Speaker 1 Of that powerful man so universally applicable as well. So I'm wishing you nothing but the best. I'll be thinking about you. I'll be praying for you during that those 80 hours and I'm going to go do a workout right now. This will be my second workout of the day. I'm going to throw around the the steel Mace just from the from the conversation that we had right now Bill. So I, I truly appreciate it, those of you listening to the podcast, go one step further than you thought you could go. We'll see you next time on Building Men.