Episode 23: Do Farmers Need Sunscreen and Does DEFRA Need Farming Lessons?

[Music] I know but I get so excited when they say. The microphones have been out of the trailer, so I'm not sure how we're going to call it. Let's get that. With rearranging them. Ooh, mine sounds a bit wobbly. Right, I think mine's facing me. Is this thing on? Is this thing on? [Laughter] I swear we did a re-like that right? Oh no, my tires in the way of my. Oh no, you little bitch. We've got some new bling for the trailer. If you're watching on the video, I've got a baby BKT rugby ball. I've got a little tire. A little kerby tire. BKT tire. What? What is it? Is it a max? Agree max. An Agree max tire apparently. It smells so good. I'm glad that they sent more than once so I can keep one just to smell. They're actually so cute aren't they? They are quite sweet. Bling, bling, bling, bling. Yes, sorry. Bit of a. Bit of a. A little plug if you're watching. Yeah, it's my. It was my mug. What tea we drink? Charlotte. Right, Charlotte has the biggest. I have a red. I have a tea fetish. Which I didn't realise because all we used to drink was coffee. Coffee, coffee, coffee. After. Like. About. Six, eight cups a day when I was coffee. And I wouldn't be here the whole day. We have cut out caffeine completely. Did we. We kind of talked about this. Well, no, we didn't. You made a nod to it. Yes. We. Big. Big right. Rose Dad died. Anyway, he was a massive coffee drinker. Always had been. No milk. Or it had to look like mud. Like a. Like tea. It was awful, one drop of milk. We always used to make his coffees and it's outside in the van drinking them anyway. We couldn't really face making a coffee. I know that sounds ridiculous. But we just decided then and there we were cutting out coffee and we weren't buying anymore because it is nine pound a jar. It's so expensive. It's really expensive. And we were like you said, we were going through so much. Like I was. I was the current person that drank for before when I was idling morning. I sometimes, because I didn't drink much coffee, Charlotte, your light isn't on. Oh my god, get that glow, get that glow! Um. Oh! Jesus! Oh, one glow, one glow. One glow, one glow. I've come one glow. One glow, one glow. I sometimes come back from here with competitions. I'm wired. And I would always say, well, coffee doesn't have much impact on me. No, not when you have one that I would make, which was like a few grains of coffee and like. I know, in 90% milk. Wooden the jar. And it wasn't even nice expensive filter coffee. It was, yeah, bogs down to the Ness Cafe, Builders Coffee. So what's this one? So you moved on to tea? We're slightly more on market now. We've gone back to my roots from when I was doing my artwork. And I obviously sat around at a desk a lot, which I never do now. Um, this is milk ulong, this one. And it's a wittards. Wittards of chelsea. I can't bought from Glasgow, makes sense of that. I can't work out. There's a sweet. It's a caramel- Chocco. Oh, caramel-y, yeah. I think it's quite a caramel-y sweet. No milk, just the tea. Yeah, just the tea. I feel quite post-drinking a. Sticking your tea pot. Well, I think we could do with maybe. I know they're branded for our new sponsor. But I think we could maybe do with slightly more. Oh my gosh, do we get refines? Should we get curvy tyres BKT China? Bone China. Oh my god, come on. Cup and sauce. Can we salt that out? Lain. I mean, we can do anything really. Um, but hint, hint, if they want us to watch rugby. I mean, we were just talking about this tiny rugby bowl. I mean, I think it's just. I think I should paint a luna-mas face on the other side of it. Well, I sent Charlotte a picture, because obviously the six nations have started. Charlotte, just to let you know, BKT sponsor, the Wilson Ashley podcast. And then they just do the six nations as well. That is actually quite cool. It is quite cool. It is quite cool. Do you think BKT have actually seen us? Or is it just curvy kind of pushing us upon them? We're like, these two random girls, they chat a bit of rubbish. We're sponsoring them. One of them's rather prone to female rugby players. We've married with two children, but never mind. Um, actually, to be fair, talking about your favourite woman in this world. Um, it is International Women's Day coming up, isn't it? Shortly, which isn't probably really our bag, but just thinking about her. She probably reflects some of the sentiments of farming women. If that makes sense, kind of doing your job in a male-dominated world. But basically just cracking on with it. She's good. Yeah. A hundred percent. She could give you a pasting. And she's created a personality, she's likable, and she's just brought people along with her. I like her. I like her. A body positivity she shares. Now she is athletic, strong. And I do. I am guilty of, I mean, I've been guilty of it in front of you, in front of the people, of looking at myself and thinking, "Good grief, you know, you've got fat legs." Whatever it might be, you know, I used to be thinner. And I did, I used to be, I used to be a size like 6 to 8, for years. And then, you know, having children just destroys every aspect of your life, including your pelvic floor, which we said we weren't going to go into. But I just think she brings about a positivity about being healthy and slightly bigger. Yes. Yes. Which is absolutely fine. And I do, I do find a source of joy watching her video, it was just because she doesn't care. She really doesn't, and I think actually, it probably is what we want the next generation. Both of boys and girls to see. Girls to think, "Yes, I don't need to look." And no offense if you do. But I don't need to be the stick thin, size zero. I was empicked. But equally, for boys to see that it's normal for women to look different and not look like the Instagram influencers, which we see look at. I wonder how many men stick it in the comments if you are a fellow. How many men do find it really find it attractive being muscular? I mean, you're muscular. I'm muscular. We are bigger than. Yes. We are broader shoulder and bigger arms. Don't get me wrong, we're not fat by any means. But we are bigger than most women should we say. I mean, I look at some people online and I just think, "God, I could snap your biceps." Well, I think the shoulders are so. They're practically inverted, they're so puny. I think, "Leave and if, lift, even if I ate lettuce for the next year, I still don't think I'd. You ain't getting rid of them." Anyway, sorry, yet another tangent. Don't know where we started or what we're talking about. Overg've been. Yeah, be careful. Be careful. What should we get into today's episode? What we are at 23? 23? Yeah, 23. Actually, starting a bit like the social media influence, the tight discussion. This kind of is where today's first topic came from. How often are we bombarded with the influencer skin care? And you know what this is? I'll just say the supplies to men as well. Yeah. We're not talking about makeup. We're talking about SPF. Well, we've had skin cancer happens to men too. We've had loads of responses. Yeah, it might not feel far-related. Sorry, kicking off being your skin care beauty regime. No, we're going to get to the farming point and there really is quite a big. Same important farming point and actually a lot of the responses I've had were from men on Instagram. Or am pleased. Am pleased it wasn't aimed at women. It was more of an open "we are outside all day every day." Even the wind chill yesterday was. It hurt. You come inside in your face. Like, it's still stinging, isn't it? Like, no wonder we look haggard. Old before our time. But is there anything we can do to stop this? That's exactly it. I think, as I said, we do see the influencers. They have about 50 steps to this regime. They also have time. Well, and I think that's something that we'll get into. Some of the barriers to why perhaps farmers are not so good even though we maybe should be looking after ourselves a bit better. One thing I did want to first touch on though is how much these regimes are a thing for young girls. And I just wonder, are we creating people who are going to be really conscious later down the line? They've always got the respf on. It's better for you or has it gone too far? And actually, are we damaging young skin too soon? Well, it's absolutely crazy. And I'll name them because it isn't a bad thing. I happened across. All the Harrison's little girl, Olivia. She's the same age as I know. Maybe it's slightly six months older, something like that. Olivia has a full. God knows how many steps skin care routine. As a child. And she does. Yeah. And it's a thing. These kids, like they're saying, the end of pubs is coming because they're not drinking. Because they're so ingrained, the wellness is around you know. Everything's pointing toward looking after yourself, detoxing all the rest of it. It's so healthy. Well, it's so faddish to be honest, because we're led by the internet, aren't we? But equally, I'm all for looking after yourself. We don't do it enough. Let's be honest. No. But interesting, if people are more focused on that part of their lives than on an evening, they'd rather do an unget ready with me as opposed to go. There is no. As opposed to go to the pub with their friends. I think we head into another crisis of inability to socialise. No communication skills. No ability to put yourself outside of your comfort zone. What's written having good skin if you don't go out the house and show it off? You know, did a bear even, you know, in the woods if you'd know one heard it or whatever the saying is? What is. I think. I guess it's something to do. It does a tree really fall in the woods if no one's like it. It's no area. Is that right here? Or does the light go off on the fridge? Is there a light on in the fridge all the time? Yes. Even if the door's closed. There isn't because you just have to press the little thing that the door touches and it turns off. I love to find my thing. So Charlotte, let's talk about the. A video which you sent me, which was a variety of different products ranging in price. Yes. And they had them in little like pet dishes. They were basic and they were like all these, if anyone knows what they are. They're like a ball that when you add liquid to it, it expands. They absorb liquid. Anyway, it was basically a load of skincare products. The highlight that I wanted to take was I used the cheapest one, which was the ordinary it's called. This was when I was a couple of years ago, probably COVID, I'm going to say, I somehow got on TikTok and I got stuck in a massive big rabbit hole of skincare. Yes. And I ended up buying loads and loads of hyaluronic acids and god knows what. I don't know what the hell they did to be honest. I was just trying to stop them wrinkles in the middle of my head because I frown too much because I'm miserable. But that's why there's a fringe there, Charlotte. You think I'm joking. This is why I have a fringe because I'm that wrinkly. But I bought all this stuff, 6 quid, 7 quid, 10 quid, all this stuff. And yes, it might not be as effective, but it is affordable. Now the one that won was it, Elemis. Yes. I can't remember what it was. And it was well over £100. I was £113. Well no wonder it bloody won. Well, this I think is an interesting point to bring it back to farming in that actually often as farmers disposable income is quite small. Now I want to put forward a situation and this might be too stereotypical to talk about. But I am sure it still happens. And that is some farms where you have the wife, mother, farmer's wife, the female person in the relationship. And I'm being very stereotypical using the male female divide there. And now often that person at home perhaps gets an allowance from the farm. Which I've got an allowance from the farm. But as in they don't perhaps work on the farm or. Yeah, it was a spousal that Maureen got it from Big Roy from the garage. Yes. It was tax-efficient. So anyway, they get. The housekeeping, let's call it. Yeah, the housekeeping. It was so much a week, but it was tax-efficient. So basically you took a proportion of your wage and you gave it to your wife, got paid for housekeeping. Yes. And that way you didn't pay as much tax. But equally, if that wife is not working on the farm or is not working in another job, they don't have their own income stream. And people listening who are not from farming might think this sounds archaic. It absolutely still happens. Farming is archaic, let's be honest. It really is. So imagine your allowances to get all the food, sort out the children, etc. You're not going to then buy a hundred pound tube of whatever skincare. No. Out of that farming allowance money, the housekeeping allowance. And I think perhaps whether this still happens in all scenarios or not, there's still a mindset thing there where spending money on looking after yourself in that way is not a good use of money when the farm needs it. Does that make sense? That mindset thing? For years we didn't pay ourselves from the farm. Yes. We only started paying ourselves when the dairy cows arrived. And I get a hundred quid a week. Yeah. It's nothing. All right, a lot, really, to be honest. Luckily in farming, the farm swells a lot of our expenses as farmers know, you know, broadband mobile phone bills, that kind of things. I am very, very fortunate that we do not cost a lot to run outside of your household expenses that the farm takes over. But that's a frugal way of living also. You make the choice to live very much within your means. Yes. Very much. And we will go without so that we can have the luxuries. Yes. And there's no no cows here, that kind of thing. The cows probably get more than we do. Yes. Which is fine. It just is what it is. Do you think we need to do a delineation between the skincare regime versus basically a moisturiser with SPF in it? Because I appreciate, you know, going through a toner and a glycolic acid and a serum and a this and an eye cream and whatever. I would say probably a lot of society also do that. Yes. So the delineation, where are we with farmers at just checking on a moisturiser and some SPF? Because we're still not there. I forget. Well, let's, like even if it's in the bathroom on the side by the time I had a shower and it's half nine at night because I've been outside and I'm covering in milk and calves are sucking on your, you know, your coat strings. I just can't be asked. And all I want to do is just have clean hair, walk downstairs. Yes. Well, I did some polls and whatever on my Instagram. And I think it's easy to say that farmers just aren't jumping on the hype, you know, they're not on board with the whole skincare influences. But I thought, let's see what the kind of view is from people who follow me, which will be a mix. But I've aimed a lot of the questions at farmers. So I asked, do you use sunscreen whilst farming? Only 19% of people use it every day. 23% use it sometimes. 31% use in summer. And then 27% use only on holiday. So what I would say we've got well over 50% of people who are probably not wearing it very often. I've got to. Well, I was going to ask this, what would you do when you get up? Nothing. Nothing. I brush my teeth and walk outside. Well, I don't even wash my face. I shower at night when I come in, which I wear every night, obviously because she stink by the time he's worked. I just, yeah, I don't even brush my hair. I stick a hat on it and walk outside. I brush my teeth. I go downstairs or narrowly would drink 10 cups of coffee before I would outside. But I don't, I now drink tea, which by the way, is not hitting the spot. I'm not going to lie. It's not giving me the hit that I need. Next question I asked. What's your skincare regime? So 44% of people said soap and hope. Yeah, that's me, which I just thought something to. 26% of people use just a moisturizer. 18% of people use a couple of products. I didn't specify. And then 11% have a full routine. I tend to use like a moisturizer kind of primer before I put makeup on. Yes. If I'm doing something like this morning, I've just been for a shower, haven't I? When you arrived, wash my hair, dip my face. So I put moisturizer on. Yes. Well, do you know what it's interesting? Because I've gone through phases. I think, I hate to admit it. I think I jump on some of the trends. I do. I really do. I'm a trend jumper. And then I forget about after a while. Well, I've gone through waves of doing quite a lot. And then nothing. And then the problem is, and this is something which actually was raised quite a bit. You get to laming time. You, so I might be in bed, say 4am and I check the camera and I'm like, "Shit, one's laming." You're not going to start your skincare regime then for half an hour. You're looking up to get clothes on the right way. When it's laming time, I'll think to myself and I should just know not to do this. I'll just run outside and check in my pajamas. Can you put your pajamas on? I'll just go and just have a little nosy and then one's lammed. So I'll sort them out and put them in a pen. Oh, shit, there's something else to do. I'll do that. By the time it's dinner time, I'm still in my pajamas. We've all approved on top. I promise I haven't been sat on the sofa all morning. I promise. I have a voice note from Samantha Shuttleworth. I asked her, I was talking to her, so I just said knowing that she is in some of. I'm going to say some of the harshest environments that we have as a farmer. Yeah. I just wondered what her skincare routine was and she sent me this. Hi, I'm Sam Shuttleworth and I'm a farmer and I am out in all weather. On a hill farm, I feel most of the time and yeah, no, I don't wear any skincare at all. I don't put anything on my face whatsoever and I remember someone told me that even if it's not sunny, you still have to put SPF on your face just to protect you. And I said even in winter when there's no sun and they said yeah all the time because you're out in all weather. And I didn't have a clue so no, unfortunately I didn't take their advice and I still don't do it. But I just don't know enough about skincare stuff so I don't bother but really looking at me, I'm a bit haggard and I blame the weather. So really yeah, I should be wearing something but I just don't, I'm not clued up on it. Yeah, that's all I have to say about that. And I am guilty of the social media going down a rabbit hole and getting sucked in. Yes. So I did get sucked into skincare trends and watching people put makeup on and things. I don't know whether it was just something that was just so alien to me that. Well is it this almost not an aspiration or watch but you think, 'oh isn't that idyllic?' And I'm like how do they make the cells look like that? I am so backwards when it comes to my hair and makeup, it's unreal. Well this is it and it's kind of. We get ready even to an awards ceremony in ten minutes flight. It's actually like I can do full shower, wash my hair, everything, dress. You're just a hair dryer and that's it. Yeah, I'm just going to take some more. Yeah, I was going to say. And then. Can we just talk about Rebecca's hair? She doesn't dry it. No, I just go to bed with it wet. She goes to bed with. Yeah but how is it not wet to your pillow? I do, but you throw it, I've seen you throw it like you throw it. Yes, you go like this, you go. Yeah but then you've got to move. Do you know one thing I have just got? Love it. So my house I don't really have heating on. I've tiny bit on downstairs. I can't even tell your house how like stingy with heat issues. It doesn't happen, okay? I want to spend my money elsewhere. A jumper. A jumper. Where you're at inside. Where you're cot inside. Where you're hiding inside. I'm not putting that heating on. I'm wet, yeah, inside. Get a dog to go. Get an electric blanket. Oh my god, Charlotte. Did it come? You will not. You're dry. I would never get out of bed. It is. They're so good. I mean, right. I don't know if I should admit this but I accidentally had it on all night last night. Oh my god, I just love it. I bet it was the best night's sleep you had ever had. The problem is the dog is really vibing with it as well. So he. Right, I'm sorry everybody. He just sleep upstairs. Harry's sleeping in our bed. And we have one to do today. We have white sheets as well which is ridiculous. Not white, really. So there's just like a grey mark at the end of the bed where he sleeps. Ralph has taken two. He'll put his little paws on the side of the bed. He'll shake first. So that wakes me up. I might. Here we go. And now. You have to lift him up. No, he jumped. I've to lift the doofay up. He jumps onto the. onto the bed. But obviously onto the bottom sheet. And then gets nestled. Obviously where there is a dual control. Electric blankets. So you don't have to have both sides on. And he'll find the warm bits, snuggle up and do very over him. We used to have a dog called John a little dash and years ago. Years and years ago. It was when I first moved to Cumbria and I didn't really have any friends. And I was feeling a bit lonely because I've moved like 90 miles up the motorway on my own. And there was a rescue dog on. It was some like, find my pet. What it was some horrendous puppy farm no doubt. Anyway, it was undershot. It was a little bit thick. And he was six months old. And apparently they got rid of the rest of the puppies but they didn't sell him. I think he was probably a return somehow. So obviously it was more of a rescue mission by this point. And we had to travel to near London overnight. Oh, so. Roy's brother Kyle lent me the money. I think it was about 450 quid this dog. Roy's brother Kyle lent me the money for John. I went and I rescued Bought from puppy farmers. Bought John. And John came back and John was. I'm going to say he didn't have the best toilet habits. Anyway, he used to sleep under the covers. Anyway, no he's shit. I'm rolling in. And we used to call Roy's team roller. I'm sorry everyone. I'm just sorry for Roy. So at that point the cage made its way upstairs and he slept in the cage by the side of the bed. I just. oh he's just. I know you used to say. Oh he doesn't. he doesn't we anywhere. He's really well behaved. He wasn't until I moved that bed. He used to call me underneath it. He just little yellow patches everywhere. He was so far away. He got run over on the A66. I know. He was really sad. He was at Antianne's house. And he got out of the gate behind her. Yeah. And he got run over. He was really sad. Poor John. At least he had a nice life until I. He did have a really nice life. There's some really nice pictures of him. Oh. Right. I don't even know what to talk about. Sorry, how did we get onto that? Um. the dogs. Oh. Heating, no heating, wet hair. Oh, what I was going to say is I have one of those hair turbines which is like a quick dry. Oh. So I just. like a towel thing. Yeah, but it's not. it's a different material. So in a house where there's no heating and you don't want to get your big bath towel really wet with all this hair. Mm-hmm. Just used a little thing. Oh, is it like those miniature towels you can get for swimming? Yes. Kind of. Like a microfiber kind of. Yes, that's it. Probably really bad for the planet. I don't like touching microfiber. It sticks on my. Oh, it sticks on my hands. Yeah, it's horrible. And it's worth feeling ever. Um. yeah, I have that all the time when you. Oh, it's awful. Outside hands. Um. what was that? Right, okay. Let's just go back what I was going to say about 10 hours a year. Where is the Earth? Um. the education thing. You were obviously saying trends. I got on trends. You just see stuff online. Sam was saying, "You don't really know." And I don't know what it is about farmers that we feel very unaware. Because I would say most people, because our feeds are filled with sheep, lambs and farmers. Honestly. On the subject. On the subject. It's stuck in tractors. It's why, um. it's very interesting to me. I once said this to, um, one of the guys at Richine. And they were like, they. this. at the time, this was a couple of years ago, they seemed unaware of, like, farming crack. Like online farming crack. And I was like, "How are these people unaware of this?" Like, it's literally in front of you every day. And then I realised, it's not in front of them every day. Their interests will be in front of them every day. Yeah, absolutely. Whether that be, you know, walking up, fells, dogs, whatever they consume, comedy on social media, they will be fed more of it. Yes. We are fed farming because that is our proper interest. Now, it just. it always interests me, all these influences that are kind of on the fringe of farming, should we say, with no active farming role. What are they consuming on social media? I wonder. Because if you are, say, in an industry, um, you know, what's a sort of, like, a fringe role. A third sector role, do they call it? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you work for, say, horse or. You know, a tractor dealer or. Yes, something like that. What's your social media looking like? I bet it's still farming heavy. I'm more interested in what's your social media feed if you have. I'm going to say a normal job, you know what I mean? But, you know, maybe you work as an accountant or maybe you work as a dentist. Well, actually, dentists are probably full of dentists related content. Because that's. But is it? Because if you go to work as a dentist, is your hobby dentistry? Or do you watch food videos or fitness videos or makeup videos? Holiday videos. See, my feed is farming. Yeah. Because farming's my hobby as well as my whole life. Yeah, whole life. Like, I don't think you can fake an interesting farming. I really don't think you are some people try. Holy invested in every aspect of your life. Yes. Everything from, you know, even the soap that you use. Everything that we are is consumed by farming. And it's a really interesting. It is. And, share through in a couple of facts. Yeah, why not? You know what I'm like. Yeah, you go for it. And, the UK sees. Sorry, I'm just going into heavy stuff. So, just go straight in. The UK sees around 17,500 new melanoma cases per year. So, skin cancer. And, a survey from melanoma focus, May 2025, suggests that around 77% of farmers report being sunburned annually. Repeated sunburn can double melanoma risk. I burn. And, I do. Yes. Everyone see me burn every summer. No, I'm offensin. That's a hard one because you don't. Is it because we just are so used to being outside in all weather's, we almost get so grateful that if you've got sun on your back, you just don't think of repercussions. And then I have like a sports brush shape. Oh my gosh, the crisscross. Yeah, on me. Oh, summer. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I now know why you wear boob tubes. Oh, I don't know if I. I think it's real. I don't think. If yours wouldn't mind, so that's really what it is. And I think another thing to add in there about, obviously, the heightened UV exposure, which we face is. It's a real thing. It's just the nature of our job. But I wanted to ask people, why do they not wear sunscreen SPF? And do you know what one of the biggest things, the one the most responded things was? Dust. People topping up sun cream or on your face or whatever. Yeah, you're right. It does it stuff. It's disgusting, isn't it? And you are in winter, you're. In summer, sorry, you can feel it on you, right? Yes. Somebody said, "It has to last all day. I don't have clean hands all the time to reapply." I agree. And it's really sticky and takes time to soak in. Getting into the routine of remembering and not thinking that it's going to be sunny that day. That's a good point, but equally, even if it's not sunny, it's still getting UV, aren't you? Yeah. One tip, which I have fully undertaken, and it's from Nina, Nina, Kelly Fields-Darees. Kelly Fields-Kellie Fields-Kellie Fields-CFD. She's a friend of mine from Young Farmers. And she said, "The best thing you can do is put your skin care or whatever it is, even if it's just a moisturizer on your bedside table." So you know how, if you've got really dry farming. I must admit, yeah, that's a really good idea. I put my hand cream on the bedside table because then you can just lie there. And if your hands are a bit sticky, whilst it's soaking in, it's not the end of the world. Same with your moisturizer. Just get a moisturizer on your bedside table. You like, 'cause often you think, "Oh, gosh, you can't be asked with the whole routine in the bathroom." And genuinely, that's been really good. We got given some beef tallow, didn't we? Oh, yes. Somebody mentioned that. Well, interestingly, by Gariford and Jones' son. Now, I absolutely love it for your legs, your arms, your hands. It's great. Good, Gariford, don't put it on your face. It literally is like putting beef on your face. Yes. Spots. Both the fuzz. Yes. And that's not a brand thing. I think that just is. But yeah, you've got people saying, "Beef tallow's amazing." It's amazing. "Gin, how is it?" We just must have incredibly sensitive skin. Yes. Some of this, maybe, I've had to stop my ball patch burning. Also, me too, honey. We could be better at wearing caps. I am a cap person. If you think of other countries. I'm a little bit of a cap on, but I'm taking it. I'm taking it. In case I see a loaner. Other countries, though, were. Australia, for example. They are covered up, hats on, etc. You know, I think get it stedson on. We had one comment, which was. They don't really. This was Kelly. Nothing. Don't really use anything. Occasionally use tropic skin care for the kids because it has no nasties in it. I think that's probably quite an important point. People probably don't know. There's so much choice out there. Which one do you actually choose? On the packaging as well. It's hyaluronic, this and retinous. Yes. And you go, "I don't even know what that is." Yes. I had one message from one of my friends actually. She said that she's put sunscreen in her boyfriend's pickup. Still refuses to put it on. Even though it's right there. You can literally get in the car, slap some on, and then carry on. Still doesn't do it. I think the dirty hands thing is a big thing though. Do you, would people only put sunscreen on if that row would never put sunscreen on to be fair? But I burn, so I will. Yes. And you see, I don't wear sunscreen. And you go tight. I like that. Yeah. But then again, I'm thinking. I mean, honestly, just wait for summer. The colour difference is going to be extreme. Like this little white thing sat here. And then you've got brown Rebecca sat next to her. I think probably, as we said, delineation between full skin care, then delineation between moist jurizer and SPF and whatever. And then sun creams a whole next step, which. I agree with the sun cream. I hate the feel of it. But then again, maybe we all. I'm not being. It is expensive. Yeah, it is. It actually is. Especially the one that I used for the children. And I have one question, because we're probably looking at the time. Which I'm not trying. Which I'm trying. Which I'm trying. Make these ridiculously long. I did also ask. Is it well? Let me just zoom in on my picture. If farmers aren't very good at looking after their skin, is this a sign of a wider culture in farming, where farmers put their health and well-being below the farm? And 82% of people said yes, absolutely. Yeah, completely. Completely. And as well, I'm not being funny. If you don't have that much money and you are struggling to pay fee bills, etc. Which a lot of people are. Perfectly honest. You know, we're not shy. Do you really want to be worried about spending 20 quid on SPF moisturizer from Garnier? Or whoever it is? You don't. And you're not interested. You know, you've got bigger fish to fry, basically. But actually, really, we should all be wearing some kind of SPF. Yeah. Well, I saw one quote which was, "It's not skin care, it's PPE." And I thought that was quite interesting. Oh, that's interesting. And yeah, you'd wear gloves if you were handling chemicals. Yes. Although some farmers wouldn't get the masks on. But I did think actually that's exactly right. You protect yourself. You would if you had YouTube. Because everyone tells you all. Yeah. You protect yourself in some areas. Your skin is just, you know, your skin is going to get burned by the sun or burned by a chemical. We protect against the chemical. But we don't protect against the sun. Noughty farmers. But I think we should probably end up end this segment. Otherwise, we'll be here all day. But I know we've probably forgotten what some feels like. Looking outside now. I mean, it was snowing over the top. It was snowing when I came here. But as we had hopefully, into some kind of summer. But also all year round, as we've established, we probably should be just slapping a bit of SPF on. Yeah, looking at the sun for a bit better. And I probably should do the formal. If you've got any concerns about some exposure, you should probably go and see a doctor or something. Yeah, do not know. My honest, I'm not going to cover eyes for whatever you do. The charity I mentioned earlier, Melanoma Focus, who had done that research. That actually was quite interesting to read. So you can just go online and do a few more stuff. My grandma's asking cancer. Yeah, I think quite. Well, we had somebody here who-- They just whapped at off-strike away. Yeah, we had somebody who commented actually who said that their absolute go-to product was-- You find it. You find it. It was a lorush posee one. Oh, yes. And the chemist. I think it was a BB cream. So I think BB cream is like a bit of a slight coverage, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a 50 plus. And they'd had 22 skin cancers cut off their leg this week. Wow. So I think that puts it into perspective, doesn't it? Yeah, that'll make you vigilant, wouldn't it? I know we're worried about money. I know we don't have the time. But keep some sun cream in the gator or in your pickup. Or whatever. Or if you're worried about any lumps and bumps get yourself at doctors. Yes. Right? Or if you can't get an appointment, send him a picture, no doubt that's how they're doing it these days, isn't it? Yeah, that is. A modern world, I know. Right, we'll be back in a minute. Now, let's take a quick break to hear a little more about our headline sponsor, BKT and Kirby Tires. We're genuinely so pleased to have them support in the podcast. They do a huge amount within the agricultural tire industry and beyond. And let's be honest, they're literally keeping the wheels of farming turning. Charlotte, you know about keeping the wheels of farming turning. Or shall we say not turning when you're stuck or spinning? Or you get a puncture at exactly the wrong moments? I don't know what you could be possibly talking about. But on a serious note, that's where Kirby Tires come in, bringing over 60 years of experience, entire and wheel distribution. Their partnership with BKT, spanning nearly two decades, combines two players at the top of their game when it comes to expertise and service. BKT and Kirby Tires supply tires and wheels across the UK, Ireland and Worldwide, working with specialist dealers across agriculture, forestry, earth moving, industrial, HGV and transport. And their trusted partners to some seriously well-known machinery manufacturers too. So, we really are glad to have BKT and Kirby Tires backing the podcast, backing agriculture and helping make sure Charlotte doesn't get her tractor stuck. Right, let's get back into it. Right, Charlotte, hello. This has been in the news. Well, not the news news, that's in it. There's some bigger things in the news. It's been a hot on farming Twitter. I actually haven't looked on Twitter for a long time. I deleted it off my phone. It's just a toxic. Do you know what, that was one of the things I put in this plan, being like, why does everything always get a frosty reception on Twitter? Because there's always criticism. A lot of them, one of them said to me, so how do you basically farm at the same time as having your phone out? Basically accusing me of doing call because I have my phone out. And I was like, well, quite easily actually, it becomes second nature. And I was explaining different social media platforms. And I basically said, you know, Instagram is full of frilly videos, aesthetically sleazing kind of things, which is hilarious because Instagram for me is the least impactful social media platform. And yet so many people play such an emphasis on having an Instagram follow-in. And I think it's a load of bullshit to be fair. Yes. It doesn't please me making it on Instagram at all. I think you get more out of, definitely more out of podcasting and YouTube. Yes. And then behind that, I think closely would follow Facebook because you're actually getting through to real people. And right at the bottom of the list will be Twitter. Yes. I just think it's full of people who think they're cleverer than everybody else. Yep. And it's not, you know, say someone puts something good up. I once put a picture on Twitter of some double fencing with Hedgin being laid in the middle. Yeah. And it was a really neat job. Big Roy had done it. Yes. It was really, really neat job. There was trees in it. There was also proper big trees. It was absolutely lovely. Anyway, I posted this and said, you know, something like cracking on with the stewardship work. Or whatever it was. Well, the absolute roasting I got for somebody. Really? Yeah. I'll try and find it. But you should leave one standing and this, but it just basically people wanting to put you down and make out that they know. More than you and that is what Twitter is. Yes. And anyone that has got a large following on Twitter has simply just gained it, not by being positive, by just laying into people or causing it to be deliberately inflammatory. And that's exactly how Twitter works. It's crazy. It really is. And there's people with huge platforms on Twitter just by being, like you said, controversial. Yes. Which I just. I do think is what society almost wants. So that's what people on social media like to see the fights almost, don't they? And they like to see that vicious back and forth. They buy into it. It's just fodder. Well, it's noise on the internet. It's like performative though, isn't it? It's all. I mean, some people maybe are like that. But a lot of it is created for that purpose. I've been on Twitter since. I'm gonna say it was something ridiculous like 2004. Really, really early on. I remember an article coming out and Stephen Fry basically said that he was on this platform called Twitter. It was new at the time. I think Minute Bat has gone at the same time, but I wouldn't have known who she was at the time. Anyway, one of my first posts I was a carer. I was looking after a. She wasn't a Muslim lady. She was a Hindu lady. And she didn't speak English. She'd come over with a son. The son was a doctor. And she moved in with the son and daughter. And they looked after her. Anyway, I took her to Temple. And part of my job as a carer was to get ready in the morning. We got on the mini bus together. And we'd go through Preston City Centre and we'd go to Temple. And it was the most positive, lovely experience, honestly. It was so interesting. And she was a joy. The language barrier was 100%. There was nothing that we could speak to each other but we just had an understanding. And I really, really enjoyed time with her. I really did. And one of the pictures was I used to just sit. I'd park her up in a wheelchair and I'd just sit sort of further back in these chairs. And I'd do my coursework at the time, which would have been a BTEC National in childcare or something along those lines. Because they put you through. I actually did a coursework, Jesus. You can't say Jesus in the Temple though, can you? And I took a picture of the ceiling. And the ceiling was a painted mural. And it was all the rest, you know, as it would be. It was absolutely stunning. But also coming from you, you know, being interested in art, etc. Oh, it was. And I'll find the picture. And I posted the picture and I said, "I'm just studying ceiling at such such a temple, you know, Preston, Citigene to blah, blah, blah." And then we'd go and we'd have luncheon with them, which was basically like, "Oh, women's luncheon club, but it was proper." You know, when you go to an Indian takeaway, it's not that. It's basically the food that they was like, "Jupati kind of things." But everything was like. Sal. Like. No, not semolina. You know, like, everything was liquidified sort of. Like. Like, everything was a sauce. Oh, so you get like several different likes. So you get like. Everything looked like moushy peas, different colours. That's what I can describe, like, proper what they were eating as. And talking about it was absolutely gorgeous. Yes. And she used to say, "Oh, you, you, and she pointed me which bits to try and she tell me how to pick it up and do it." Honestly, it was such a joy. And that was my first experience of Twitter. It was really nice. Yes. And then it gradually went downhill from there, suddenly. Well, let's get into the. Well, this topic, it has been in the farming press and whatever. I would say it has probably kicked off on Twitter. It's an easy thing to build that controversy around. So, Defer has awarded a contract to the Allatin Project. That's an initiative basically owned by the Game Wild Life Conservation Trust. And this money has been awarded by Defer for the Allatin Project, which is a farm, but kind of very much nature-led. Lots of research into conservation and environmental outcomes, etc. To deliver training for civil servants. Now, I guess the first thing I should say is that I'm an ambassador for the Game Wild Life Conservation Trust. So, obviously, I'm on board with the work that they're doing towards nature. Some of it obviously is. Well, I'm nesting birds, etc. Exactly. What a moreland management. Big farmland bird count. All sorts of stuff. The Nambi Pambi stuff, I can't get on board with, I think, it's not a shy. Well, I was just about to say, is some of it more. It's performant-friendly than what we do. I think it's just ticking boxes, I think. Some of it is definitely more nature-friendly than what we are doing at home. However, I 100% think that actually government policy is demanding that direction. Some retailers demanding that direction. Consumers, perhaps, the ones who can afford to are demanding that direction. Net Zero, whilst we have this government, is still a big. Do you know, it's going down the motorway yesterday. I went to pick some chemicals up at Longtown. I went past a wagon and it just made me remember. On the side of it, it said 100% carbon neutral. You're fucking wagon. Also, what happens to your batteries or how is your engine made? You might run on something that's not diesel. Roof is just something that's not to have roof first. On his quad bike, with all his PPE on, and his bright orange. I'll show that. I'll save that and show everybody. I wonder if I've got the same one. Mole catcher returns. Bless him. Probably won't be allowed to catch Mole soon, will we? That'll be against my plan. I'll tell you what, then traps are slightly scarier. I think you could trap your fingers in them. Which ones do you have? Like barrel ones. Oh, yeah, they scare me. Yeah, no. And then in a nine-year-old girl from Do It, but he's helping on catching Mole. So you crack on, huh? Yeah, you do it. I do. I got some touch at home, actually. So, I think my personal viewpoint is, without. I don't think we should get too head up on actually what the Allerton Project delivers. I think they're very clear about the fact that they are on the environmental side of things. It might be about biodiversity, etc. etc. I think the bigger problem is the civil servants working in Deferra, who need training in the area they're meant to be making policy and advice about. So, my only problem is, is the price. Well, that. Good grief. Hi. Yes, did I mention the price? I was coming round to that. Yes, if you. Well, £650,000. Buy a piss in farm for that? I think one thing to know on that, actually, is that that figure, which has been circulating. Now, this was. This was kind of, I guess, quashed by Joe Stanley, who's the head of training at Game of Wildlife Conservation Trust Allerton Project. This £650,000 figure represented the absolute maximum that they. That the bid. Or that could be awarded in reality. Who else was involved in bidding for this? Yes, whether there was any actual farmers. Well, interestingly. They were actively farming. Well, it said that the Allerton Project submitted a bid worth around half of that amount. So, £650,000. And it's a four-year training programme. So, I think this is why going back to the Twitter thing, people like to jump on something clickbait or something that sounds really aggressive without knowing. But, the civil service is how people make money. We've got friends who've made fortunes, and I don't mean a couple of hundred grand. They've made a life. They've made fortunes. They've made themselves millionaires by jumping on the back of government policy. And, you know, things like renewables. Yes. Or the railway even. Anything government backed is a licensed to print money if they were on the right side of it. And actually, who were we to criticise the Allerton Project? No, good for that. For bidding for a fund which is available. It's interesting, the you mentioned about. I would be slightly concerned about, and I would say to anybody, "Oh, obviously, I don't have a podcast and put it on the internet." Why not? I would be very concerned that they are more of their nature friendly. Now, this is a real farming, you know, where I'm going to. I'm going to London to listen to a debate in House Commons about conventional farming, versus sort of regenerative farming and the impacts of this. And, you know, just comparing merits all the rest of it. I think it's quite a controversial topic in agriculture. And it's quite divisive topic as well, because I'm not being funny with all your farming methods that you want to do, whether or not they make you feel good or they're good for the soil. You ain't going to feed a country. Well, it's interesting, because I've had this kind of thought going around my head of. The idea is to bring better policy outcomes for farmers, because the people making the policy then understand farming. And I thought, "What happens if it goes down too much of a nature and environment?" It will. It will. However, they do go and visit other farms, they do go and visit other sectors. And I think, ultimately, we've been criticising you, I, most farmers, criticising DEFRA to say, "You don't have any clue about farming." Yes, they're paying an inordinate amount of money to go and try and learn about farming. But aren't they doing what we asked? Yes, but surely there could be more of a balance. But that's, I suppose, that's only because we're looking at it very closely. Yes. On the face of it, yes, they are doing exactly what farmers would want. Yes. Now, when you dig a little bit deeper, I think there could be a bit more of a balance on what type of farming they're learning about. But then again, what else would you expect from the, you know, the direction of the government having been going in? Well, question then. Would they have even got the contract if it wasn't nature friendly? Yes. What about the farms, the farmers who would take civil servants onto the farm for free and show them a day in their life? Come to my house. So, first thing is, how many farms actually would? Now, I know we probably would, but I think there'll be a lot of people out there saying, "Oh, yeah, you can come to our farm." No, no, more than you think, I think. But I do think. But do you think then these farms are not set up for actual training as such? Now, civil servants, if you say, "Oh, well, to know what it's really like on a farm, you need to be here at 4am, you need to be out there in the driving rain until 8pm at night." It's not an open. That also, I think it's almost unfair, dare I say, unfair on these civil servants who didn't choose to do that job for a reason. They chose to have this job, that route and direction. I think, and this may, I don't know, I may get criticised for this. I think some farmers would alienate the civil service by saying, "You need to see what farming's really like." Do you know what, though? I'm going to say, and I don't know hate to the Elton Project for putting in the whole thing. There are numerous YouTube channels of actual farmers out there that would do a better job for free. Watch their videos. Yes, it might not be hands-on. Right, honestly, I have done, I mean, what did I, how many. Well, there's a comment I saw a lot of footage. I have done over 800 long-form YouTube videos. 800, that is some serious going over the years. And they are more than 20 minutes long, some of them. Minimum 20 minutes. This is every other day. Yes. Or near and north. Yes. For the last couple of years. Well, surely there's content out there for people to consume. Well, it was a comment I read a GB news article on this. Well, I read the article and then read the comments. Love the bias of GB news, it just. And then it was also a comment I saw a lot on Twitter. Just get them to watch Jeremy Clarkson. It opened my eyes and it'll be cheaper. So talking about, obviously, the cost of it. And should we just get civil servants onto farms? I saw a comment a fair bit on Twitter. So it wasn't a GB news article I read. Yes, I did read a GB news article on it. And it said, just get them, the civil servants, towards Jeremy Clarkson. It's open my eyes and it'll be cheaper. What do you think? Maybe not specifically Jeremy Clarkson, because I think that's rather. I'm not going to say dramatized because it isn't, I think. Well, like anything balanced, I don't think it's necessarily geared towards. I'm going to say conventional farming to make money. Obviously, Jeremy Clarkson's making money from television more than he is from farming. So obviously, things are going to be geared somewhat towards more entertainment than. Yes. The way I. People always. And that's not to say I don't like. I think Clarkson's farming is brilliant in so many ways. But maybe not necessarily a learning tool for. For Debra. For Debra. Well, the way I describe it when people ask, and people do ask an awful lot, the way I describe it is. It's a whole farming year into what is it? Eight hours. So the highs are very high and the lows are very low. It misses out on a lot of the. On those the mundaneness. Yes. The repetitiveness. Just the slog. The slog of farming life. And it is. It is repetitive. And you know, you do feel like you're waiting through mud the majority of time just trying to make it through another day because it's the same as yesterday. Yes. You know, and you wonder why we enjoy going off and doing numerous events and things because it is a break from that. Yes. A couple of other points that I saw on Twitter as well. One was actually from Matthew Blende, who you know very well. And he basically referred to an asking, "Is it a cross-party initiative?" So is this training just few years under Labour and then it's gone? How do you keep that almost succession of knowledge going through or does another contract get awarded in another four years' time? How does that actually work? That's a really good point because you'd think that well, as the Conservatives, you know, Victoria Atkins specifically is a very pro-farming. Well, I've got a quote from her in a second. But just stop it. Yeah. Not direct. I didn't, unfortunately. She did it. She wants to come on the podcast, you know. She is very good. She would as well. She would. We should take it to a house. Oh my god. Let's just turn it. Where does she live? Oh, Twitter, somebody called Nick Anton, Twitter said, "In typical civil servant fashion, they'll do three years and move departments, "making it an utter waste of money, but the employee gains a pay grade." Which I thought was a very interesting way of seeing it in that these people are not going to be staying in the job almost long enough to see it all come to fruition. Yeah. One question, do you think farming people should just be going into these roles? Farming people like you could go into these roles, could farming people like me go into these roles, and possibly not. I think it's a big ask because your skill set is on the farm. Yes, and as well, it's not just that. Are you acquitted? Do you have the time? Are you equipped? Yeah. You know, can you deal? It's really funny, you know. The Roy's said this, he'd said it to Anna, actually, the other day about, it was something to do with the viaduct, Riverhead viaduct, I don't know how it was going about. He used to know Hugh Lonsdale, he was like the Earl of Lourdes. He lived around the corner and Roy was one speaking to him. And they were talking about politicians, House of Lords, all the rest of it. And he was like, you've got to understand the people that sit in the House of Lords. And he was like, I'm not sure if he was going to be able to afford the time to study to have a broad knowledge about these things, to be able to apply it into policy. They are trained from a younger age, the given the time, the given the, you know, the privilege of being able to do this so that they can form such an opinion, to be able to apply it to things. Would it be correct to throw somebody like me? Now, I'm not stupid by any means and I'm not stupid. Eat quite the actually if we have, if we had only farmers, you know what's more dangerous than me. Someone who thinks the clever, that's even worse. Yeah, absolutely. And ultimately, unfortunately, farming isn't the only thing on the political, the policy, etc agenda, the budget. So yes, we could make everything so it was absolutely perfect for farmers, but at what cost? And I think having people who were solely invested in farming, making that policy, I'm not saying we couldn't have people who had a bit more knowledge, that would be rather helpful. But having people solely invested in farming might not be the best outcome, more, more broadly, I guess. But Victoria Atkins, I think it's one of those things where it's an easy thing for the conservatives to criticise, yeah, maybe before. Basically, so she said it will not be a surprise to any farmer to learn that many civil servants, like the current crop of ministers they serve, have no clue about farming or the countryside. She told this to the telegraph, then she continued, "Unlike the government, conservatives understand rural areas, since the general election, I've been meeting thousands of farmers up and down the country to hear their concerns and raise them in parliament. Ministers and civil servants could learn a lot from them, including value for money. Hard, as hard-pressed taxpayers struggle with ever-high attacks under this government, they will ask what else ministers are wasting money on. Now I get it, but it's political. This is an easy way for a conservative with a very rural interest to criticise labour." Oh yeah, but they're lending themselves to it, aren't they? I think the problem is with everything else they've done, they really are. But maybe we just have to try and there's so much for us to complain about. Perhaps we just need to have open eyes and see what this may achieve. It's very early days, isn't it, I guess, to see what happens. Yes. It's better than nothing. Arguably, it is better than nothing. And what I worry about is, as farmers, are we now painting ourselves out to be this? I'm saying it's a very plural. Painting ourselves out to be this group of pitchfork waving mob who aren't grateful for anything that we get. And I think there's a danger with that. I can see why people are so aggrieved by. I think people are so angry and general with all of the rest of the things that they've done that anything that they did come out with would be met with hostility. Yes. And if they'd done this, but they hadn't, basically, I don't know, given the green light to destroy family farms with the inheritance tax situation, perhaps. Just a general disdain for the countryside. In general. This would be a very palatable. Anything to do with the countryside, it's like this divide of, you know, those people are rich, let's ruin them. And it's simply not bloody true. Yes. Well, we'll wait to see how that all turns out. Palms out. As always, if you enjoyed our episode, if you had a laugh, if you learnt something, please leave us a review. Please do use SPF in the future. Yeah. Share the episode with any friends you think might enjoy as well. Or your grandma. Yes. Grandma's lovers. Please do. And yeah, that's it. See you next time. Yes, see you next time.