Episode 210: Meet the Somm Who Brought Wine to Life in 'Drops of God'

Hello and welcome to the Wine Enthusiast Podcast. You're serving a drinks culture in the people who drive it. I'm Ryan Grimm, magazine director here at Wine Enthusiast. It's a day I'm talking to Sebastian Pradal, the wine consultant on the Apple TV show Drops of God. If you haven't seen it yet, Drops of God is probably the most wine-obsessed wine-nured scripted show ever made. It follows Camille, a French writer whose deceased father was one of the world's foremost wine educators and collectors, and Isse, who was one of his students. From beyond the grave, Camille's dad insists that Camille and Isse do these intense sort of wine challenges and tastings, and in season one, he has them taste a mystery wine, and they have an entire month to identify it, and it takes them on all these crazy adventures. In season two, which is still rolling out now, they have to investigate a really expensive, precious, unlabeled bottle. It was purchased at an auction, and allegedly, it's the best in the world. The show is packed with wine tastings, trips to vineyards, discussions about buyer-name-of-wine making, but there's also a lot of family mysteries and dark secrets and all sorts of intrigue. Seb Pradal, a paris-based sommelier, restaurant owner and wine distributor, was kind of the chat with me about his role on Drops of God and how he brought deep wine knowledge to the series. Seb, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Brian, how are you? I'm good. Where are you calling from? I'm calling from Paris, I'm sorry because my voice is a bit broken because we have three days to wine Paris convention, which is the biggest wine fair in the world, I guess, now. So I spoke a lot and drink a few glasses as well. Yeah, I'd go. I'd go for you. Look, Seb, my real job is a wine. I agent so I'm setting wines for a lot of French domain such as a contéra form large de pera boucaf de la sède, etc. So mainly I went to see all of them and bring some clients to the standard, etc. So, okay, but quiet tiring, but it's okay. I'm here with you and I'm happy. Yeah, we're happy to have you. Let's get into the show. So the first thing I want to know is as a young man starting out in wine, you've been in this business for a long time. Did you ever dream that you would be producing, helping produce a show like this? Firstly, thank you very much for telling everyone that I'm a mob, so nearly now. I appreciate it. But I would do it. No, no, no, no. I would do it. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. I'm over 15 now. So I'm doing this for 30 years, you're right. It's the business. So, yeah, of course, it's even better than this. I couldn't dream it, but would happen like when I was 16 or 17, back in my studies, I wanted so much to be a writer, but unfortunately my school work was not as good as this job requested. So it's like a gift, you know, like 40, let me guess, 30 years later when I was 47, when a cousin of mine asked me the producer, asked me to be part of the show, but it was just crazy for me. A dream coming true. The pre-production on the show was what, seven or eight years ago. So this has been quite a journey, you know, what sorts of decisions were you making in the pre-production process before shooting even started? Well, as I was telling you, Clas Zimmermann, come me firstly on the show, I think we were at the beginning just here now, even before the writer, but it was not because I was the first choice to be an advisor, but we had the relationship in common. And when Clas gets the right for the drugs of God, from the mangas, I guess, he just wanted to understand the beat about wine and the wine industry and the wine world, etc. And we had a relationship in common. And this guy told him, well, you don't understand nothing about wine, let me introduce you to a friend, they went to my restaurant and we had a lunch. That's the true story, you know, we just drank and ate together for like three or four hours with drunk good wines. And so we were chatting a lot because wine helps chatting, right? And then after this, he told me, oh, that's great. The way you speak about wine is very easy to understand for me. Not success is sometimes they can be, you know, too much into the theory. And so he told me, please, I would like to know a bit more about the vines and the way to do wine, etc. So yeah, so we went three months later, I'm not sure at that time, but the writer, Coup, Van Tran was with us in the journey. We went to Chateau de Boccafé in Chateau de Boccafé in Department to understand and see the work of a wine maker. And after this period, he told me, well, please stay with us and join us to write the series and to help the actors and etc. Yeah, I would imagine the actors and the writers had different levels of knowledge about wine. Like how did you kind of start with your education with them? The same way I did with Clasimmermann, you know, firstly we met and we had lunches with the writer Coup Van Tran. He asked me a lot of questions about the vines, biodynamics, how to verify. What is a sommelier when you taste the wine? What is it like, you know, this bell ringing in your brain when you taste a vionier, for example, you know, vionier is pitch and cricket. What does it, how does it occur in your mind when you taste the wine? That's how we had this fantastic idea of the library coming into the brain of Racame in the first season. He asked me about the sommelier competition and etc. And then concerning the part, the training part with the actors, and well, Tomo, he, you know, what I wrote a part of the script with the writers. So it was in fact easy for me to explain to Flor Géfrier and Tobré Rachika the two actors but they had to appreciate the wine through their character. I explained myself. Camille in the first season and in the second as well, she's a writer, she's French, she's a woman, she doesn't, I don't suppose anything but she does not drink wine, she cannot drink wine. Tomo, he's the antagonist, Japanese from East. So you know, he's got this culture, strict one, I would say, you know, very Japanese way. And he's the best student that Alexandre Rége has, Alexandre is the best wine expert, okay. So the two antagonism, they just had to taste the wine like they are. So Camille, she's a tutuette, so she's swirled the glass like, you know, firstly she takes the glass with a full hand, I don't know how you say it, you know, but you know, I mean. And he say on the contrary, he's just acting like a robot. So it was very easy to explain them and then just to very quickly how they should do it. Yeah, I would imagine with the cast coming from many different countries and so many different languages, was it kind of tricky sometimes with people's different attitudes about wine or different customs? Yeah, but this is the richness of the show as well, you know, it's richy-lengual. Did you say it? Yeah, richy-lengual show, right? Okay. So the richness of the people coming from east, coming from west, Italy, Japan, France, etc. That's great because it's bringing a lot of, it's deep, you know, to tend the story and to explain things about the characters, but of course the same thing for the wine and for the people that are looking for the wine. Yeah, of course. Yeah, so I guess take me through this process. If when you're handed pages of the script, was there anything that you would see in the first season or second season where you were immediately like, oh no, that's not going to work. Like we have to, we have to change this. Yeah, obviously, but it was, I was really, you know, helping during the writing. So in fact, it was more like they started, so I'm sorry, people listening, they know that, that's, that's, I did not. Okay, I'm going to explain you the way I experienced it. In fact, they just firstly send you a very short, one episode, one page. And mainly they are after all the speaking and the discussion we had. They've been the story. Okay. So in the first season, it was the competition, okay, to earn the, to earn the, the, all the inherent sort of, at example, the year after it left in the second series, it's, it's an investigation to find the great, okay, the great wine. I mean, so in the first season, they made those eight pages send it to me. And right away, as you were saying, I could see if, if some things were adapted or not to, to the wine, I could right away tell them before they started writing, this is going to be not the good way or maybe we should do that, like that, etc. One of the sentence, but they used to, to repeat me was, that said, forget you were sommelier, you, you are writing now. So please, I, we would like this to happen. How, how can it be? And so, but was very funny for me to do it. And maybe that's why they have children. right guy because I'm not as I was telling you or in some I am some of you of course but I'm you know I I have multiple caps I'm working in the sales I are on a restaurant I own a company in the expo that etc and for the second season it was quite different because well in first season we did it then they left blanks for after writing all the all the episodes they left blanks for the dialogues so I could write them myself then they corrected it because that's their job to do it really great and straight I've chosen the wines of course part of the story as well and for the second season I was from the beginning into the the writer tips it also then I was really yeah part of it from the beginning choosing the you are choosing the countries and and the how they are going to investigate and the wines did the investigation sorry so they had we they had to to follow my lead sometimes for the story yeah I feel like I haven't seen a depiction in a fictional TV show of like rigorous study of wine and blind tasting and the challenges and then you know this kind of this kind of test from beyond the grave from our father is almost it's almost kind of cruel like do you feel like in your own experience there is this balance between learning about wine and studying it and just simply enjoying it and just having a good time okay so you started saying rain but I was an awesome man you know so the theory of the studies are yeah long time ago but I guess but firstly to all the people who enjoy wine and and I hope that they are creating some vocations with with the show is some of the people listening they want to to start with the wine firstly theory they must read and and and and know get to know about the about the vines the wine it said the history of wine and etc and when it's about the experience is coming it's about tasting as much as possible wines I think that's the best way to be to be and to and what is what I experience during my my professional life life yeah I think in addition to the all the tasting and the study there's also almost like a magical fantastical element you know Camilla Sanesthesia the way that she experiences wine we can we see these like bursts of color do you feel like there are some aspects of wine and just in the wine world that almost live outside of science that are a little like inexplicable because I think the show kind of brings up some of these some of these elements yeah this is true so the show is a feature of course you know as I as I told you they told me forget you recently and please help us to to go more into the fiction so she is described as a superhero you're right the way she she connects in her reign with the Sinistecia and etc for example she she tastes she smells firstly an aroma and and she she makes a correspondence with the color okay so this is Sinistecia basically and yeah and well firstly when you taste the wine of course it's looking to your soul it's something about the memory firstly I used to say when I make wine tasting you know if you smell it somebody it tells you when you are spending a glass of wine to use men's strawberry you're not going to smell a strawberry not a fresh of all the fresh one of course it's more about strawberry but you ate in a jam or whatever with your grandmother when you were used to go on holidays when you were eight years old you know something about salt so you're right it's something mystical I would say and besides this this tasting aspect there is something more but I would add is that the more and more our crazy world is getting shorter and shorter with our screens telephones and etc you know I think so for a few years that the people as much as they want to have as much as I want to have my phone with me if I don't have it and roast I think too but it's very important and we are more opening to a natural world to a testicle artist and all jobs you know what I mean so I mean the the the smaller and the bigger we have to get the picture so now wine is titling and a lot of people you know they want to know more about this industry there is something mystical about that because it's not producing alcohol it's taking grape from from a plot automature making wine but you can age this is the only agricultural product which can be processed by human being and tasted after a hundred years so I think you know I don't know if you if you've got my point this of course it's completely mystical or the world of wine yeah absolutely that's one definitely one big thing I got from watching the show and you mentioned kind of the industry in general and the perception of it and how the show plays into that do you feel like where we are with the industry now and obviously the past few years past decade or so there's been all these challenges there's obviously climate change you know vendors are being ripped up how do you feel like shows like this that go really deep into into wine how do they kind of help with people's perception of wine and the enjoyment of wine how the show gets to help for for those matters that's what you mean yeah like how the you know people watch the show and it you know is it is it sort of helping because I think wine sometimes has a PR problem how does the show like this kind of play into that okay I'll got you so you know this is very important because it's it's this a lot of wine makers or even nail fights where I'm meeting after after the two seasons now and and mainly of course the people from our profession they say it's so great guys that you made a show and speaking about our industry because firstly you know infants we've got a low a low from the government government law but we call law even with the law there you cannot promote wine alcohol on TV on newspaper on radio whatever okay so for example now we are we are we are talking about the show talking about wine which is which is a national treasure you know French wine of course Italian man I do but you know in our country it's true to order for for centuries and we are not allowed to speak about that normally and the show allows to have to sign a light on the wine and what we are doing and the way we're doing it with people working as I was I was saying you know producing a wine how does it go how does it happen you do it with the heart with the soul with your brain and etc. and and I think it's quite important as well because now as you know people are drinking less and less wine and I'm not here making an apology about alcohol of course not you know I'm 53 you can just see the top of my body but I'm I'm sporting and and I'm trying to leave very healthy the best as I can and I'm sommelier this and I'm sommelier but you know I think that we are jabalizing that does it exist this world in English no making the wine like devil I don't know how you say it in English you know like you must not drink it's not good for your health and etc. etc. I'm demonizing it sometimes okay sorry for my my my friendship world but you know I prefer like 25 years ago when when many years were speaking about the French paradox and that you should drunk two or three glasses of red wine a week it was it was it was a preserving you from all the time you know what I mean we we we we this spectrum is very and is very wide you know you don't have to drink one bottle of wine a day but you can enjoy and one bottle of vodka a day okay because it's dangerous but you can enjoy of course one glass of wine shelling your meal with one or with the people you love and this is not the same aspect and so I hope that the people watching the show they understand but you know it's a social way the art of the book as we say you know our de v. I hope they we get it and the profession I think that they are happy that this is a this is a happening yeah for sure I want to talk a little more about season two because the show takes us to Georgia you know home of some of the earliest wine making in antiquity how what was that like for you what was your experience with Georgian wine force yeah mine good this is a good question you know in France we are very much nationalist concerning the wine very much protecting you I don't know you're a protect your list that's what that's the world I was looking for protect your list for years and years we didn't want so much to have a fine wine so it was very difficult to find Georgian wine I mean to write the show I have to understand very well what is on the range wine, a maceration wine, okay, especially because it's what I'm not spawning but we're talking about the red wine so okay for me maceration into Kvivri was big and forward that they use in Georgia with the red-grat variety but I could not understand how it works so I started with going to to wine shops in France in Paris trying to taste a shoe red wine from Amphora it didn't went as good as I thought you know roof and the strict tenions not exactly the way I imagined the grade so I ordered some wines from 3 sedans from England as well I received a lot of samples I tasted samples and then What I'm liking the show, I tasted one buckle. What am I just talking about you, about this to you now? I've got a goose, goose bumps. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. They're right now. That's crazy. So I tasted this wine. It's a maranille recipe. Maranille, this is the day of the, of the, of the marani of the, the, the estate, ok. Or the, of the domain and I tasted the wine that was crazy. I, I reached the, the, the, the, the producer on, on what's up and I told him, ok, I, I, you wine is crazy, but I don't understand. Please, can I come and see how, how you do it? So before the show, I went there to Calhétie to, to, to meet the, your year, the wine maker and he taught me so much about wine, when he is a bit special because he's got the, he, on, only seven hectares, the plot, the one plot seven hectares of the nine hectares. He's working on the six different varieties, with different blends or, or, or, or single variety, whatever, biodynamics, living the, living the, the, the, the branches of, of, of, of, the, of the wine going through without cutting them because if he does, that's, that's a scarf he's making on the vine and that's not good for the vine. You know, like, like, I don't know from, from the Lord of the Rings, but a crazy, amazing guy and he told me a lot about the, the, the Georgian wines. I stayed two days with him and then when I came back, I, I was able to, to write and to tell a bit more about this, this, this great, they are investigating for. Wow. So, so you're, so you were writing a lot of the, the dialogue kind of informed from your trip to Georgia? Well, come again, I'm sorry, Reagan. Oh, you, were you writing some of the dialogue in season two that was informed from your trip? Oh, yeah, right. Of course, the dialogues yes, when, when they are, well, during the, the, the, oh my God, I, I, I, I come to point. Yes, of course, I did. I wrote, I wrote a few dialogues, you know, yeah, the, the, the, the, for different scenes, the same way I did it for the first season. I don't go further because if I do, I know I said I'm going to reveal, to reveal, please, I must not. Yes, I did, yes, I did, sir spoilers here. I did. Yeah. So, I guess, so would you say that your relationship with wine in the past seven years because of the show, like, how is it changed? You know, like, how, how have you grown in your own work because of this show? Okay. I, I, I, I still give up myself. I'm, I'm, I'm sure it will do that. I don't know if it was in your question, but this is going to be my answer. It's changed the way I'm looking at me, okay, to be very honest, the way I look at said probably into the mirror. I'm, I'm 63 working for 32 years in, in wine industry, being a sommelier. I told you blah, blah, blah. But the thing is that I am strangely with the restaurant, the agency with which, which is one of the biggest in Paris, the city in Conte La Fonte, Raj de Père, or whatever, etc. It's the, the, the Mexican company with all the things like that, etc. I had self-confidence, but I, I, I, I didn't feel like I, I, I, I, I had the legitimacy into the, the wine world, but that's stupid. I don't know. And, but brought me this legitimacy in, in, in my own eyes. You know, now I, I feel like, you know, I, I watched back after the first season. I said, wow, okay. I'm the, I'm the guy who did a lot of this, you know, that's crazy. And now, when people talk to me or, you know, the interviews I'm doing with you and you're at your crack colleagues, it's giving me, I don't know, yeah, confidence. And I know that now I'm, I'm someone with, with the voice, saying things about, about the wine world and helping people through the show, etc. I don't know if I make my point, but you know, this is the, the way I see it after making those two seasons. Like, you know, I'm part of it and I can give some influence, good influence into, into, into the wine and the wine industry. Yeah. So in, in season two, the, the, kind of like the main story is they're, they're given this unlabeled bottle, right? And it's, it's, you know, this mystery wine is supposed to be amazing, some of the best in the world. You were to do this to someone, what bottle are you choosing? What's your pick that would be your kind of mystery wine that you think is some of the greatest in the world that they would have to investigate? - Wow, this is crazy. But you know, I asked this question to myself during the writing, so in fact what was. That's why I describe this wine this way into the mouth of the two characters, you know. It's young, but it's fresh, but it's deep, you know, your wine which cannot exist normally. And the question in my set about the wine, I don't know, you know, it's more like it's difficult to answer that question because I'm lucky, sommelier, and in France, knowing a lot of wine maker from a lot of countries, I've tasted very old wine like 120 or 130 years old. I tasted the Homanicundi, which is known to be one of the most famous wine in the world, and wines from all the countries. And honestly, I think that I don't have this, I don't have an answer, but I think that the best wine ever you do, and you taste it with people you love, you know. I mean, sharing a syrup because she likes it with my wife. That's sort of the best glasses I can drink with Homan, you know, or a good friend or something like that. It's not really an answer, but what? Right, well, I guess not necessarily the best or what you think is the greatest, obviously, that does not exist. But if there was one that was kind of like a mystery that would be really difficult and challenging for them to kind of figure out what would be your pick for that. Ah, okay. So in that case, I would say maybe a wine from a navy which is making wine for a short time, you know. For example, we are cutting a Mexican wine in the second season. You know, Mexican are making a lot of progress. Mexican people to make wine, or of course, in the US as well. When I see the work of Pagan from the San Lanzas state, but we call it in the first season, yeah, most people struggling hard to make wine in a territory which is so rage and not into the wine industry, you know. Sturgeoning to make wine in a plot, which is normally not working for that. This is the kind of wine I would like to, you have to pull to taste. Yeah, that makes sense. In working on season two, do you feel like the actors, knowledge, and relationship with wine had changed a lot over the past few years, like coming to work on the new season, what did you notice with them? Yes, of course, they bother me. They don't call me anymore. They just call me to be going with them. I'm getting no, no, that's crazy. That's very funny because now, like after the first season, they went really into the wine, the producer, a close, and Camille Fler and Fleur and the two actors. And after the first season, they used to send me WhatsApp or to call me, "Sab, I'm in a restaurant eating this. What wine can I choose?" So you know, it was like a joke after a few times, so I called them OK, they take a picture of the wine and they send it to me, but they don't do it anymore. They know how to handle wine is now, really. And that's funny because when Fleur, they told me, both of them when we started to make the promotion, we saw each other in London, that now friends in Samini are asking them to choose the wine and the restaurants. They are the experts now. That's true. Yeah. So I know that season three, as far as I know, is not confirmed yet. No. If you could have anything happen with these characters and with this kind of really rich universe, well, what direction would you want to see it go in? You do do do do, let's let me think you know in fact I would say but the first the first season was introducing well wine is one of the third character okay there is three characters Camille Tomo and wine okay we are not making a documentary about wine but we are talking a lot about wine and wine is leading the story but of course what is what is very important is that the characters they are going and mainly the second season deeper into their feelings they are going to know then says very much about after this second season and the two characters are going to know at each other as well very much after this second season so in the first season we introduce three characters he say Camille and the wine about the wine that means that we want to show how to taste the wine the mechanism but you are describing sinister sea or whatever when you taste the wine wine competition how to open a bottle etc. Second season as we are doing for the characters we go deeper into wine so for the for the geeks that you and I are there is some easter eggs we so once again it's not a documentary so there is some easter eggs talking about biodynamics about about stanger the inventor of biodynamics some tips about ecology and the way to underwater etc so I guess if there is and I hope they will be third season I would like to go deeper and deeper you know just to to take a wire and to I'd like to say to the ennigpings take the wire and like full the thread yeah yeah we're going to thread okay and I would like the people you and I we are going to understand these two rights and you are going to say okay said you want tell this talking about the biodynamics I've got it but what would be very great for the second and then before the third it does happen is that nail fights watching for the first season after the show some of them told me this is crazy after the show I I wanted to have a glass of wine so first we are earned but but but but so now they've got they've got a glass of wine they are a bit more into the wine second season they are going to hear about biodynamics taking a dictionary or watching on on on on screens on YouTube or whatever what is biodynamics and I would like to do the same thing for the first season you know making a kind of giving them some knowledge and curiosity to deeper maybe who knows creating some vocations you know some way yeah wine makers waiters cookers etc that would be great yeah and if someone's maybe not the biggest wine fan not a wine drinker they know nothing about wine what can they get from from the show I think that they I hope that they they understand that once again you know wine is wine is not evil it's really a product coming from nature made by by by people by human being woman and man trying to to give with a lot of soul to to give a plot a part of their territory yeah two people okay so I hope that they will understand that this is this is a gift given by nature you know and and besides with a lot of moderation of course so I'm going to to find my words but you know I know wine firstly because it's it's about sharing a meal a glass socializing with people you know that's that's the the the real important thing for me when I go to dinner for a friend for my with my wife or with a friend whatever we stay two or three hours in front of each other and this is the best way of talking you know relaxing by eating some amazing food okay so the feelings and etc are changing and the getting softer then you drink a sip of wine and another wine and the brain is getting relaxed and then you can talk so I hope that they they will understand but you know it's a way of living what we use to say once again ah the view or other concepts you know this you know we're sitting together and enjoying all right you can't get that from looking at your phone yeah you can you can what's right um well I think that's all I had thank you so much for for joining us today this has been great no we should do you can catch drops of God on Apple TV season two is streaming now with new episodes every Wednesday you can email us your comments and questions at podcasts at wineinthusies.com subscribe to this podcast on apples potify in anywhere else you listen to your favorite shows you can also go to wineinthusies.com/podcast for more episodes and transcripts I'm Ryan Grimm thanks for listening