Episode 20: Are Farmers Held to Higher Welfare Standards Than Pet Owners?

[Muysiadau'r Ysgol] Mae'r yw'n gweithio, mae'n gweithio? Mae'n gweithio? Mae'n gweithio? Mae'n gweithio? Mae'n gweithio? A couple of years ago at Lama. Hold on, not expent, not losing something financially. Yeah, emotionally. Sorry, that was really round about the houses, wasn't it? That's not that you, Charlotte. There was a meeting that I was sat in and somebody had said to me, "What do you want out of all this?" It was about social media and working online and things like that and doing panel discussions and talks and all this stuff that we do, podcasting all this. "What do you want out of it all?" And I went, "Who knows?" I literally went, "I haven't got a clue." And he was like, "What do you want to be seen as?" And I was like, "I don't know. I don't know if I'm not a business. I don't have a goal. I don't have set goals for things. I'm just kind of winging it because it's fun." Yes. And I think that's probably one of my New Year's resolutions if I had one, which I've already started doing. I'm not going to kill myself because I'm not selling anything. Yes. I'm not selling myself. Yes. And unfortunately you do see plenty of people who are selling themselves and are the nipples sold out. But no, I'm joking. I'm not. This is our problem wearing hoodies up to one. Do you know what someone once said about me on YouTube? Hold on. If you aren't watching this, I've got to be fair. I have a lot of people on there. But you were built to hear me because I'm a hashtag-richline. I'm hashtag-richline if you want to use our discount code to Rebecca 15 and Charlotte 15. There's actually a 65% off sale in Richline at the minute. Did you know that? Who's that? I'm not like, push it. I'm just saying. Yeah, 65% is quite a lot of this. I better take that off. You look like an ex-fimale. You do look like an hezquimo. Yeah, some people are selling out, aren't they? Well, actually we are going to be touching on social media in the second part of this and talking about people going offline, going offline is now fashionable. It is. I think, yeah, the end of last year I've started creating less YouTube content. I've not just been putting content out for content sake. Yeah. I know that sounds silly. I've stopped looking towards the next step. Yes. I always used to have a next step of where you want to be kind of thing and it was working with brands and stuff. And actively seeking. I've stopped doing that. Well, also I think it's not naturally in our hands. And that's exactly it. Having a farm as the, I mean, fallbacks the wrong word. The farm is the core. The farm is the content. The farm is the farm is everything. And actually the plans, the future proofing, etc. Sit on the farm and anything else within social media is almost, it's a side shoot. And yes, we make some money from it. But it's not, I'll tell you what the hours that you put in, it's the money does not equate to the amount of money. No, I wouldn't want to work out the hourly rate of social media and when you put it. Because the other thing isn't going back to my New Year's resolution, bringing it background to me, sorry. But going back to the New Year's resolution. Today it was supposed to be about me. That's actually one of the things. Financially, if you're being reimbursed for the event that you do or the content that you create, that's great because it feels less draining because you know that there's a financial return which helps other things in life. But if there isn't a financial return and there's loads of hours going into something and you can't see a return, no, it's not all about money. But there's not many other people who open their laptops or open their emails or open their phones at a cost to themselves. And I think, as I said, I think it's a whole other conversation. That we're farmers do stuff for free across the board, whether it's outclearing snow at the moment, you know, fall in trees, doing all the wildfires that we had. When it comes to social media and this media side of things, we're still viewing ourselves in the same vein that we view ourselves in the other elements of our world. It's funny though, have you seen the video that Elon Musk, it was it a podcast he did? And it basically said Instagram's over. Really? I'll send it you, it's very interesting. Basically people have had enough of the bullshit of the perfect. And that's why people just not asked anymore. Well, shall we, we were going to, well, we're going to talk about going offline in the second part of this episode. Yeah, so we will, you know, let's read this. I could have segwayed, I could have segwayed them, but I'm too early. I was always too early. Oh, no, but it was such, it was so good. It was so good, it was so bad. Well, let's get into this episode. Then the first thing we're going to be talking about is the recently published Animal Welfare Strategy. That sounds very broad and wishy-washy, we'll be delving into the. Yeah, and I think, walking farming and hunting. Well, this is exactly it. There's some pretty controversial things on there. As I said, second part, we'll be talking about going offline. But before we fully get into the episode, should we just quickly talk. I'm just sorry, I don't know what I'm doing with my hands. No, I was, I was getting people to learn. I was preparing, then. We just wanted to touch on RABI and their Winter Fuel Grant Charlotte. Yes, I got sent it the other day. I am a massive, massive supporter of RABI. I have been in receipt of one of their grants. Is that the right. That sounded wrong in my head when I said it. I've been a recipient. Yes, a recipient of that. That would have been a great service. And it was their school, back to school grant, a fair few years ago now. But I'll tell you something, at the time, I had two children in school. Rifts was just going into school and I was in primary school. And yeah, it helped at a time when I needed it. I think we were building the farm. We didn't have any income. We had no animals to sell. We didn't pay ourselves a wage. And yeah, it just. It means tested. But at the time, we weren't making any money technically. It really, really helped. And I am a big supporter of RABI. And when they sent me this, I thought it was something we needed to talk about. Can we just mention almost the feeling of embarrassment or shame that people feel. You're joking, there is no. They're not a bit ashamed, none. They sent me that grant and asked me to put it out there on socials. And I read it and I thought, "Good God, I could apply for this. I'm skinned." Like, there is no shame in not having. And I sent it to several of my friends who I also know would. They would have utilized that money well. And yeah, a couple of them applied for it and got approved. I don't know, it made a big difference to two or three people that I know. And I just thought. I just like the breadth of things that they can help with. It's not one mind, it's not just about mental health, it's not just about whatever. They are there for anyone, for anything. They can provide counseling. Honestly, we should do an episode on RABI, which I guess won't aren't just for crack. Because I just think they're a really good charity to support. Well, absolutely, this Winterfuel grant that will be released very shortly, probably even will be released by the time this episode comes out. Just get onto their website. I think you can get £400 per farming household to help with that. So it is well worth doing. And I think you write to touch on that broader mission of RABI. It is the financial help, but it's also. It is the mental wellbeing. And they do have a 24-hour support line. So they are a brilliant charity. So if you are struggling, there'll probably be something that they can help you with or direct you into the right place as well. So a really great charity and something really good to. The dimensions are good. I think that's a good one to start off, 2026 with. There's mention in something like that. Yeah, absolutely. And there is, as Charlotte said, there's no shame. There's no embarrassment. Zero embarrassment. Non. Non. Right, on that note, head to the RABI website. And we are going to be talking about the animal welfare strategy. As I said, sounds blooming. Who knows what when you just hear that title. But should pets be police like farm animals? I guess that was our. Our eye cost, it bloody showed. Broad question, because I know more abused pets. And I don't mean abused in the sense that it hits or knocks around. I know more. I'll have to say mistreated pets. And some of them belong to showing households, for instance. Yes. That go to crofts and stuff. Well, I'm sorry. It's a really interesting topic for me. I think pets are underpoliced. I really do. There are people that are abusing animals without probably knowing it. They're not fulfilling the needs of an animal. And just because I think people are very often put human emotions onto their animals and think just because the dog's got a nice warm sofa to curl upon, that that's the right thing to do. Well, actually, your dog's three pounds overweight. Yes. And it's a two hour. No, well. I took Ralph to the vet. So if you don't know him, he's a jack Russell. And he is a big strong jack Russell, as it is. Yeah, he's a big one, isn't he? Anyway. So I took him for his job, so obviously they're annual. And he was 10 kilos, which you're probably thinking Jack Russell's, oh my gosh. He looks well, Jenny. Go on my Instagram, okay, and you'll see him. Look, Ralph, are you a bit trover, Ralph here? Yes, please do. Anyway, took him for the vet, getting on the scales. And he really does not like the vet's blessing, but going on the scales. And he was 11 kilos. And I was like, oh, that's not that bad. And then they were like, that's a 10% increase in body weight. I was like, he likes. - Shmackles. - Get a red body, Shade Man. Do you know what he does like? But he cat biscuits. He keeps going to eat the cat biscuits. But I've got a lot of milk, that's why they're fat. Yeah, that will have that impact. Yeah, they'll love it. Anyway, I'm completely with you, but one, just sorry, going off of the slight tangent. One thing that I read in the strategy, which I thought was very interesting, is how animals are often very much part of domestic abuse situations. In the animals are weaponized for the abusive person. - So his children. - Really interesting, isn't it? - Yeah. - You know, if you go. Do you know what? Do you see some posts on some of the likes of these Facebook groups, which we've talked about before, with people saying, I want to leave an abusive relationship, but what do I do about my sheep? - That's funny, we have no words to keep the horses. - Yeah. I don't know, sorry, that was just off topic, but I thought quite an interesting thing that this strategy has drawn up. I think one thing we should say is we're never ever going to cover the depth of the strategy in half an hour. We've probably haven't even got half an hour, we've babbled on. - About 15 minutes in. - Sorry, everyone. - You've got 45. Well, you've not, you've got less than half an hour to talk about this topic, if you want to be. - Yeah, unless you want a two hour podcast, which is funny to me. So this strategy covers farm animals, pets, wild animals as well. To me, there's a lot of things to cover in one strategy, because what I gained from it on a really basic level, because you all know I did read it. It's an interesting read. - It is. - I can't believe. So basically, they've got no puppy farming, completely agree? Good. - Well, with that, a close season on hair hunting. - Now, I thought hair-cossing was illegal. - Now, so this is it. I think there's quite a lot of things that people would read. And I don't think it goes into. - Like, we have hairs. I mean, I hate to tell anyone, we have hairs. We're not the open friends. You can't just gain access to our fields to hunt them. I thought hair-cossing was illegal. - So hair-cossing is illegal. What they're saying is, so what a close season on shooting hairs. - You should hares. - Well, I had this conversation with my dad. We have loads of hairs. Now, we've got damage to their cause. - Well, not really. Obviously, they're going to chew a few crops, aren't they? But not to the extent where you would want to control them. - I know. I've never heard of anyone controlling hairs. - We have, I think, back in the day, farmer's hair shoots were a thing. But that is, it's not a thing. - So it just feels like the government, yet again, trying to say that farmers are all bastards and that they're going round killing everything. - I've never heard of anyone controlling hairs in my life. - No. - I could be wrong. Someone write, email, do whatever, send a text. I just went, "What?" - I don't even, in the same thing as puppy farming and such a controversial topic as hunting. - Well, I even there. - I don't know one farmer who shoots hairs on their land. I don't know one farmer who doesn't. We certainly don't. And we're obviously arable. We're more lowland. We're flatter than you. - We have had it. - Not as abundant as, no. - We have a really nice population. We do have some problems with hair courses, but not like in other parts of the country at all. I wonder if people control the hair population to stop hair courses going on their land. - Well, it is interesting. And I do think, say if your crops have been damaged before before, as what do you do? You cut the problem out of the core, which is a hairs. - First, if that's why. - I think sometimes some of these policies feel like they're targeting farmers when there's a step back in the crime sphere, which need that are all coming out with the bloody hounds. - Well, I'm not even sorry about saying it. We're living up, I'll be for God's sake. We all know what the crack is. - Well, and I think the problem here is hair courses. - Sorry about to get arrested again. - Where is the people who, perhaps, and often they find, that a lot of the vehicles involved in it. - So if you don't know what hair coursing is, basically, I'm going to be honest, some slightly questionable people with some pretty immoral characteristics. - Yes, and some lurcher type dogs who will chase and kill. - You're being very broad on this. - And basically, they drive into fields, sometimes from the northeast. Pretty much, they're looking for hair. - Responsible for 90% of plants left in the UK. - Listen, we've just had our wagon nicked, right? And you know what they did? I mean, you couldn't even make it up. Like, the actual generalisation of these people. They're Ramda Tarmac machine in the back of it. - I can't. I can't. How can people, how can they defend themselves when this is what happens? - So you've nicked a bright yellow wagon, a cattle wagon, and Ramda Tarmac machine in the back of it. And then it was found at a livery yard somewhere over the northeast. I mean, sorry, we've just ticked several boxes of truth there. - But you're exactly right. What we're trying to say is that often, people involved in hair-corsing are involved in other elements of organised crime and actually have the police got a role to crack down on things, you know, before it even gets to the hairs themselves, you know, all the nicking vehicles, etc. And I think, actually, I think rural crime teams are doing a really good job and they have been ramping up their presence in several counties. I know they've been doing a lot with media as well. - Yes. - I've heard the YouTubers have had the rural crime teams around. Amanda and Karen, they're from our rural, career, rural crime unit. - Yes. - They're absolutely brilliant. And they are doing a good job. And they're actually, I like their online presence because it's become slightly noughtier over the years. It's not necessarily like straight back policemen anymore. - Yes. - It's more like, oh, by the way, you dropped this while you were running away if you fancy calling it the police station to pick it up. That's the comedy that I enjoy that out of them. - Yes, yeah. I think actually I've seen, I mean, trail hunting is part of the strategy strategy. - Yes, so strategy strategy. - So that is, they're going to console early 20s, 26, they've said, to ban trail hunting. Now, I have been hunting pre-ban and post-ban. I have personally seen a change in the practice as opposed to hunting foxes and their scent, you hunt a scent which is artificially laid. - Now, there is an argument that some hunts have used trail hunting which is not killing anything, but they've used that as a smoke screen to say, "Oh, will the hounds accidentally got on the scent of a fox?" Now, yes, that happens. We'd be naive to say that every single person has abided by the letter of every single law. However, I saw something and it said, "Well, just because some people speed "are we going to ban all cars or some people shoplift, "are we going to ban all shops?" - I think now these things, they take years to phase out. - Yes. - Years. And it's a mindset change through generations. So like, us growing up now, I've never been hunting. I've never had an interest in it. The most I go near it is, I like hunting pictures and paraphernalia. I enjoy, yes. - Yes. - But neighbor Linda's just been and Rebecca's just met her anyway. Linda was involved in all the, like the Cheshire hunt, - Yes. - The scene, the hunt scene. She's 70. - Yes. - It was a different generation. - Different thing altogether. Now, when we're growing up, we understand that. It isn't as acceptable now, which is fine. But I think the whole thing is just exacerbated with this huge divide between basically like labor and conservative. Essentially it's divide and conquer. Can I say one thing on the hunting thing as well? Well, obviously we've kind of confirmed that not everybody is breaking the law. It feels like, as with a lot of things at the moment, the wider attack on the rural community. And one of the things which people or people in power at the moment seem to forget about hunts is that, one, they provide a lot of employment in the local area. But two, and this is a really important one for livestock farmers. Hunts have provided and do still provide, but obviously the fewer hunts there are, the further away from farms, hunts have provided a fallen stock service. So if you had a sheep which died. I didn't realise this. Well, if you had a sheep which died or a bee, - or whatever, it could have had a hunt. - And they'd come and take it. And it would be fed to the hounds. Obviously, as long as it didn't have medicines in its system or anything like that. Now, well, and the other thing is, they would come and humanely, so if I had a sheep which had a broken leg or had a prolapse, which had, you know, I'd call the hunt kennels. Now the hunt kennels used to be less than 10 minutes away from us. So if I called them, we could have somebody there within, let's say 10 minutes, half an hour, pretty much. Obviously, as long as they weren't out doing another job. But pretty much, to come and dispatch an animal, that's quicker than the vet didn't get there. That's quicker than fallen stock actual companies can often get there. And interestingly now, and I can't fault the service that we get from our fallen stock company. But they won't be there as quickly as a hunt kennels would be in your locality. And I'm presuming you don't have to pay, you know, - 100 and something pounds for it to be taken away. - No, because for them as well also, it's food for the hounds. Now, these are the sort of things which are not considered. Yes, okay, we're going to make sure that hunts do not kill foxes when they're hunting a trail or hunting a person. Sometimes, you know, they have somebody and it's the clean boot. They hunt a person, basically, bloodhounds. What happens when they catch the person? I think they have biscuits. And they just give them all biscuits and it's all. Stop it, that's too cute. It's so much more innocuous, you know, across 95%. You know, if hunt saboteurs, which basically make it their personality to go out disrupting people on horses, anyone, children and adults, it doesn't matter. Yeah, I just don't see. Like, obviously, there will be the bad stories that you hear. And they're the only ones you're going to hear. Yes. I mean, the amount of hunts that go out now, they're not actually hunting. They're just tally-hoeing. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Not people just want that comradery of getting on a horse and having, you know, the little hip flask. Yes. That's what people want. Yes. I don't think they necessarily go. I don't think anyone on a horse necessarily goes because they want to see something killed by a dog. It's just bizarre to me. I would say there is a massive number of people hunting now who never hunted before the hunting ban. Yeah. And it's hard, because we're throwing around hunting very like, but, you know, they have never been. When was hunting, Gantt? 2000. Wasn't that longer though? Was it a huge movement against something? 2007. Was it 2007? It wasn't longer at all. Anyway, there's a big protest in London, wasn't there? It was huge. It was as big as the one that I'll eat it. What was livelihoods. Lively. Lively had something. Well, I don't know. I think it's just the general consensus that the government are just slowly chipping away at any countryside pursuits. Yes. Like, they really are chipping away at everything that we've got and we hold dear around here. I mean, yeah, I can understand hunting's not for me. I've never considered. I've never considered it would be enjoyable, but then again, I don't like horses. Yeah, as we've recently worked. And actually, what it is for most people now, but, yeah, as I said, particularly post-banned, it's just riding around and coming up. You get what it is. And it's a glorified cross-country course, to the panel. That's exactly what it is. And there's a purpose to doing the cross-country course, because you're following Hounds, who are following an artificial-laid scent. And I. There are bad eggs as with anything, but I think to vilify a whole kind of pillar of heritage and community, and part of the economy is unbelievable. But I wonder how you would go about changing the scent that they hunt? Well, I. And could they not. Well, also, there's a different. Make them stop wanting to hunt that scent. And I think there's a difference between, like, sight hounds and scent hounds as well. So, like, the difference. You have fox hounds, you have beagles, you have blood hounds. It's a blood hounds for the ones that do the clean boot hunting, aren't they? So, you're such a. I do. I just wonder how. Yeah, is it. But you know what? It's another one of those things. And I think a lot of people who have been hunting have kept things very much behind closed doors, because you don't want to invite attention. It's a bit like farming. Farming. But it's a very implied that you're doing something wrong. Well, Holden, hasn't farming seen a resurgence, though. It was very much behind closed doors. Then social media, farming influencers. Excuse me, on social media, have taken off. Now, I actually think, following the boxing day hunts this year, trail hunts this year, there was a big resurgence on social. or a big surge. I think it'd be very handy. It's a bit like the naming of, like, Halal. You know, when we talked about it in that episode, when we said that, you know, there's no difference in the. The killing methods of the majority of Halal meat. Or whatever it was that we said. It would be handy if hunting wasn't actually just called hunting, if they just changed a bloody name. Yes. So that there was a clear difference between, this is what we used to do, and this is what we're doing going forward. Absolutely. And I think there's some really good channels out there. There's some really good channels out there who explain what we do. They literally show somebody running along with the rag soaked in whatever it is to get. Well, with that in mind, I have a friend, Sarah. And if she gets back to me in time before this episode goes out. Yes. I always note from her in here, or, you know, I'll read out what she said here. I know she used to do trail running for the hunt. So she used to. Yes, she did. I don't know if she does any more, but I'll find out. And if she gets back to me, I'll put that in here. Yes. Yes. Well, it's interesting, because I think. Well, as I said, we're never going to cover all of these topics. So, perhaps, actually, if we park trail hunting. Well, that's kind of the only one. that I'm kind of a bit on the fence with to be perfectly honest. Because it's shall I read to you? I mean, I know you're better than the one to read things, but. it includes reforms across famed animals, so phasing out cages for laying headings. Completely agree? Good. moving away from CO2 stunning for pigs. I actually don't understand enough about that situation. I don't know. I don't know. a nor do the general public have an opinion. Fair enough, that's just one of those things. Promoting slow-growing chicken breeds. Now, that is an interesting one, because it birds from. it's something like 20-something days, isn't it? It's an obscenely short amount of time. Well, this is a really interesting thing when it comes to public perception, isn't it? A lot of people. they wouldn't eat beef or lamb, but I will eat chicken because it's better. It's a scary little. The thing though about. if an animal grows quicker to get to its. to put it bluntly, if it gets quicker to its slaughter weight. the impact that it's had on the environment. if it hasn't eaten as much food. and it hasn't emitted as much CO2, methane or whatever. The commercially raised chickens are typically slaughtered at a very young age. normally 5-9 weeks. That's exactly it. I can completely. like Doug got me wrong, it'll probably decimate an industry. but I can completely understand why that's a bad thing. But the environmental impact. over quicker to slaughter weight birds. well yes, that goes to you. Actually one of the things that they've explored in the strategy. is better labelling. In terms of. let me try. I think lots of things could be solved with better labelling, do you? Well, an awful lot. Let me just. I don't know, I don't want to look up that. I'm going to find labelling. She means slaughter for fish? Well, I don't even. I don't have a clue about that. Is it really awful, I don't actually. I don't consider. in my head. Well, this is it they've now. they've now added in like. custations and octopus and prawn and all the rest of it. No, I think an octopus would. I would see that as a viable thing. Have you seen the video? Or. am I just a cow? Am I an awful person? I don't see fish as like the same as a cow. I don't think I did. There were the octopus. I mean the problem. But somebody puts a jar in this octopus tank. and it opens the jar with its suckers. goes in, picks up the crab and eats them. Octopus is on a level with pigs then. But I'll actually read directly from the strategy on food labelling. Most consumers care about how their food is produced. However, we recognise that the current lack of consistency in food labelling. makes it difficult for consumers to understand the animal welfare standards. their food was produced to and make informed purchasing decisions. Now I think that's quite interesting because I would say on something like eggs. it's very blatant that you have barn eggs, cage eggs, free range organic. I think that's fairly well-laid. But does that mean that consumers understand what all of those levels mean? Perhaps not. No, it's a bit like the organic thing, isn't it? It may pull off and got a clue what organic means. No. I just think it's better. The other thing is though, particularly if you farm sheep, for example. it's not a case of necessarily, they're always indoors or they're always outdoors. Like our sheep come in for lambing time because we lamb, imminently. We've probably had a lamb by the time this episode goes out. So therefore our sheep are a mix of inside and outside over lambing time. but then turned out all the rest of the year pretty much. So it's very. I would say is it harder to standardise production standards when it comes to livestock? Because what I'm trying to say is in a poultry shed, you can control the conditions, whether you're in Cornwall or Scotland, you can make the shed the same temperature. I think we've always kind of said that dairy has had a shaft infirm in the government. For the better or for the worse, you make your own minds up about that. You know, poultry has anything housed that pigs definitely have. I think beef and like sheep, they're much harder to do any kind of regulation with. Well, how do you farm your. You farm your. technically free for six months of the year. Well, you farm your sheep differently, tell we farm ours. Yeah, pretty much because of. Pretty much because of what you look at out here, hills versus a lowland farm. Yeah. It's completely different. So I think we've got to be very careful in that. in terms of the way some of the other. I think it's just that context that's needed behind everything, isn't it? And I don't think the general public or the government necessarily have the correct information. Yes. to go forward with these things. And it's the same with absolutely everything that they do. You know, they've got a board of supposed farmers. And like Roy would say, one of them's a fruit farmer from Ken and the other ones are. Yes. a dairy farmer from Scotland. How can they make decisions on arable farming in Warwickshire, for instance? Yes, absolutely. It doesn't make any sense. Well, when we talk about the kind of production standards, you know, we're viewed as having. very high standards. And when we call them into this, it seems to make out that we're shit. Well, one thing that has been brought up and we had a comment on our Wilson & Ashley podcast community on Facebook. should you wish to join? We've been a bit quiet on there, but we'll try to be back on. Yeah, try to be a bit. Do you know what, over Christmas, Roy's dad's died, which has been a bit. shit, to be honest. It's been absolutely horrendous. And I just haven't been asked doing anything. No. That's all. A very good reason. Well, yeah, I think so too. I'm sorry I'm going to carry on using it. No, I'm just thinking about that. But I think, actually, the problem is the farm has to keep going whilst you're dealing with this backdrop of. well, an awful lot, shall we say. I mean, it's not easy, so of course. And actually, that will tie into our later conversation on going offline. Oh my god, it's so hard. It's so hard. It's so early, too early. But I think on the animal welfare, so this was a comment, as I said, from our community. It's all well and good having the best animal welfare, but we need to stop buying in lower welfare from other countries. I completely agree. If we buy in, it has to be the same or better. Never mind labeling. It should be the same or better. And that should be the rules, but they're not going to do that. They're just going to. Well, make it harder for us to keep animals and then let all the shit in through the ports. It's interesting, though, because. Where does it say? There's something very specific about basically saying that they would. The government would look after our. Oh, here we go. Where necessary? We will be prepared to use the full range of powers at our disposal to protect our most sensitive sectors, including permanent quotas, exclusions and safeguards. So, to me, in theory, that's a reassuring sentence. It's saying the government will use its powers to stop substantive impassant. Listen, I was sat in a room when our Prime Minister told us that he was not going to do anything with inheritance now. Do I believe them? I don't believe anything, so. It's very, very difficult, isn't it? Because we are tied by red tape, but also I would say our general mindset in this country is. And of course, you're always going to get bad eggs, but our general mindset across agriculture is high animal welfare. We do that whether we were red taped into it or not. But other countries simply do not fall in line with these standards. I can't put it any more simply than that. Most countries do not produce to the same standard as ours. And you only have to look back to one of our previous episodes on the Mercs or Trade Deal. And actually, if you haven't listened to it, you should. The Irish Farmers Journal and the Irish Farmers Association did an investigation into antibiotics, antibiotic use and getting hold of antibiotics, etc. in Brazil. And I would say it was pretty alarming. But if food from these countries is coming in, we simply cannot trace it, we cannot verify it's how it's been produced like we can in this country. And the government absolutely has to weigh in on this and be stronger. But I don't see a government which. Why would you protect farmers? Is going to be strong. We're just picking out some things that obviously the strategy is. Things I don't agree with, better dog breeding practices. Well, this is a really interesting one, isn't it? Because backyard breeders and puppy farms are a thing. They are a massive thing. Never mind that though. People breeding piscine pugs and flat nose. We've got breeding. We've got breeding dog breeds. And you ask about it, it's absolutely horrendous. Every time a dog gets excited, it passes out because it can't get enough oxygen. And then they have to do surgery on their foreto nose and nasal passageways. How did this become fashion? It's horrendous. It's cruelty, isn't it? It's cruelty. But then to say, I don't know what Roy's not wearing. Never mind a dog. To some extent, are we guilty of that? We selectively breeding farming. Yeah, look at Tech, like a. Yeah, a belt-ex or something. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, and we have belt-exes. To be fair, I would say we try and. We don't purchase ones which are so heavy with muscling, etc. That they struggle to walk. But you only have to see double-muscled cattle. Yeah, a belt with some belt with those eyes here. Absolutely. Bloody horrendous. So, oh, God. Oh, we. And then as opposed to. You're putting them on cows that you know without a doubt they're going to be to cut out. So they need that a lot of air. They're not very. Yeah. I know people that that's their standard practice. Oh, yeah. They brace themselves for us as they're. No, no, they know. Every time. Well, they know automatically that it just is the way it is. Yeah. I don't know how moral is that. I don't know. I know. It is interesting. Well, I don't. I don't understand about this whole thing. It's the way these issues, which I agree with someone I don't agree with others, they've been lumped together. Mm-hmm. And you're just a bit like. How do they fit together? Yeah, I don't understand. Because also, actually, we know that farming livestock is highly regulated. Farming puppy farming is not. So actually, there is a big gap if we want to bring puppy farming but breeding dogs up to a level of regulation like producing food. The disparity in that is never. But then you're always going to have responsible people who breed dogs, for instance, Emigrey. So, Nell's from Emma. I'm only saying that because that's the first person that I can to breed dogs. She will be highly regulated. She'll be registered with Kennel Club and this and that. And they're only allowed so many litters with a certain amount of time, all this stuff. That's not stopping Sandra from Preston with a British blue dog, bulldog or whatever the hell they're called. Yeah. You know, having however many litters are puppy because she's telling them for two grand a pop because they're fashionable. This is the bit that they. Yes, they can control the controllable but the uncontrollable people they don't have tabs on. They don't have a chance. Do you think that people buying puppies and dogs need to take more responsibility for. They won't. They won't. They won't. They will not. That's a silly thing to even think they will. People get something in their head. They're very, you know, self-obsessed. I want one of those. I'm going to get one of those. Yeah. And it's only me. I'm only a little person in this big world. I couldn't possibly make a difference. Yeah, I'm not feeding into puppy farms. No, no, not me, not me. But then again, do they actually give a shit whether they're feeding into puppy farms when you realise that they're paying a thousand pounds for a dog instead of two grand for a kennicle registered, you know, this and the other from a reputable breeder. Well, absolutely. And I think you're right. Like with everything people think with the purses, don't they? And the ease of being able to get one. Absolutely. Going back to the, I guess the production standards of farm animals highly regulated. One question I want to ask is if we have these high welfare standards, should that translate to better profitability for British farmers? Well, you would think that if it was from a higher welfare farm, the price would be higher in the supermarkets. But it's not going to happen, isn't it? And then I guess the problem is is the costs are just always passed on to the farmer to do. Well, this is it who pay and if we want farmers to be profitable, who's going to pay for them to be profitable because supermarkets won't pay, consumers won't pay. And now obviously with the phasing out of payments and subsidies, etc, government won't pay for farmers to be profitable. And yes, you see lots of, oh, you see some people on social media who are pottering, we've had a brilliant year, things are successful, we've been profitable in all these areas, etc. But unfortunately, you know, not every farm. Even though they're doing everything that they can, you know, if you're an arable farmer. Just like something, at the minute the milk price is shit, it is absolutely tanking. You know, there's people I know that have been told to tip milk away because they just, they simply just don't want it. There's a big glut of milk, etc, etc. So, you know, there's people that are on. I think there's also underhand work from the processes in potting and stuff. And then like the lack of milk in like things like puff pastry and it is just ridiculous. Yes, it's just ridiculous. We should do a whole thing on it. Anyway, some people's milk prices are below 30 pence, like 29, 28, 29 pence. As is very high and it is state, in fact, it's gone up. As is high anyway because jerseys are a niche product, they give less milk than a traditional, you know, a traditional dairy cow. And they're also ourselves to work with. And they are. They die for no reason. It's really annoying, it just happens. But yet, we get a decent milk price. We have a niche product. At no point have I gone on social media knowing that all the people are suffering. And that having a really crap time and gone, well, our milk price is great. Look at my new defender. I haven't got a new defender. I've got a shitty 320 billion. She's over a long time. She's got a potentially bad head on it, whatever that means. I keep needing to put oil in. I mean, we're going for it. It's a lifestyle, it's a choice. But you know what I mean? We are all right. The amount of bills we've got makes us slightly less happy about it. But we're doing good. We're doing good. Our cows are fetching a really, really good price. Yes, we have to send the best stuff. And we get told off if we send any amount of crap milk. God, do we know about it? Like they're very strict. But I'm not going to rub it in on social media that we're doing well and everyone else is doing crap. That's absolutely bad form. Well, horrendous. And the other thing is it's quite sector dependent. So at the moment, or recently beef and sheep trade has been really quite strong. There's been peaks and troughs. But you know, it's pretty good. It's interesting that yes, we are on a high. But farming has seen its own private recession for the last 11, 12 years. Maybe this is just where it should be. Well, this is what I think. So we're not got high prices. We've got what should be prices. It's making up for the 10 years of only just breaking even. So this year, and also if your input prices have gone up exponentially, which they have in farming, it's 30% inflation on input cost for agriculture, I think. Something like that. The problem at the minute is on its knees. It's on its knees. Honestly, it's horrendous. It's really bad for people. And they can't make ends meet. Well, I would describe what we do at home as an opera. So we're sheep and arable, if you don't know. The sheep prices we've been fetching are pretty good. They're still input costs to go with them. On the arable side, this year, and the last few years for us, have been absolutely disastrous. Now, I would say we are farming a pretty tight operation. And we are doing what we're told is the right thing. So we're using some regenerative principles. Soil health is key. We are not plowing pretty much where we can. We've got cover crops in the rotation. Herbal lays in the rotation. We're doing everything. Everything matters. You know, you would, the government, for instance, wants you to do to be seen to be a good farmer. Precision application of products, variable rate, fertilizer applications. We're not putting on more than we need to, which obviously is good for the environment, but good for reducing inputs. We genuinely are doing so much, and also because we're a trial farm, we're trialling out new products as well. So whether that's bio-stimulants, for example, all sorts of stuff. We've denied to genus efficiency trials, so we know our optimum amount of fertilizer to apply before the curve drops off and you don't see any more yield benefit. And we have this conversation. What more can we do as a farm to become profitable when yields are repeatedly down because of conditions, et cetera. And price of the wheat that we're selling is the same as about 20 odd years ago, bearing in mind the cost of machinery is gone up. The cost of fertilizer and diesel and plant protection products has all gone up. And we are still selling for price the same as 20 years ago. And the main problem is, a ton of wheat grown here is to me a more premium product than a ton of wheat grown in, say, America where they use, however many more chemicals. They're not as conscious about soil health or the environment or biodiversity. So we have a premium ton of wheat versus a foreign, less premium ton of wheat. We have to sell to that global market and doesn't matter if ours is premium because I'll go and get it from somewhere that isn't premium. Including, I'm going to rant now, including British companies or companies who process in this country, importing substandard wheat, putting it into your bread and your biscuits. That's not labeled, is it? So that's the interesting thing to think about. We often, when we talk about meat and stuff, and people buying British, for instance, we're looking at the tiny, tiny proportion of people that walk into a shop and buy a piece of meat. We're not looking at the catering industry, the MOD, the hospitals, the schools. All of these huge industries that are utilising meat that they buy in bulk and tiny, tiny pens margins. Tiny pens margins. They have literally got pens on their margins. And if it's cheaper from abroad, they really don't care. They really don't care. And buy it. This is one thing, just sorry, on that topic of public procurement. Our public sector, food procurement policies also have the potential to drive more positive animal welfare outcomes. We will explore such opportunities as we develop our policy, including the potential to strengthen the animal welfare provisions within the, and this is capital's, Government Buying Standards for Food and Catering Services. So does that mean that they are going to look more at buying high welfare produce to bring into prisons, the NHS? Well good, good, because you have to leave from the majority of it. And yeah, I was just about to say, you're a big buyer of food for those sectors. So you need to be basic, you need to be acting, not just talking, acting, practice what you preach. It's interesting though, because you know that you look at like finance directors and stuff. I mean, we know finance directors, we live in a nice village. And you know if they don't make the right noises and do the right things, they'll just leave their jobs. And this is exactly what it is. Honestly, they will just like politicians, if they don't make the right noise, they have to, they don't. They don't tell the line, they'll lose their jobs. How hard is it for these people to put their head above the parapet and do the right thing? Yeah, I don't know if they can. Well, and because it's all about making money. And this is the problem, it's always going to be, this is what's actually crazy though. It's always going to be about making money, whereas farmers are not making money. We can't make it about making money. No, we're not doing money. Because we love it. We love it. We love it. We love it. We're a 48 minutes into a podcast and not even on the second. Oh my gosh, right. Okay, we have not even got. Because something to segue into. Segway, segue, segue. We don't know, just do it. We tried to do good ones, but we did them too early. Can I hold on? Before we go on to, can we go on to one thing? I saw online, offline, online, offline. I saw an interesting comment about electric colours, because they're going to ban electric dog colours. Well, I follow a very interesting man, if you have, if you're ever on the fence about whether or not you utilising electric colours, is a bad thing or a good thing. There's a man called Jamie Penrith. He is on Twitter. And he is an advocate for using electric colours in safely retraining dogs with, like, kill instincts and things. So, for instance, if your dog trains. If your dog's like a deer killer, you know, and it wants to chase deer and kill it, he can successfully retrain your dog. But that's his primary use is electric colours. Now, I don't disagree with them. Well, I really don't, I'm sorry, I can't think that they are that bad. And actually, until you watch the videos of a man putting them on himself, because they are hilarious. Well, men have a low-paying tolerance. Sorry, sorry, men, sorry, men. But I think, actually, perhaps sometimes the use for electric colours in that retraining situation is because of irresponsible dog ownership to start with. Exactly, and it's either that or your dog gets put down. So, what do they want, death or electric colour? Well, one comment which I saw, which I haven't given too much thought to or fully looked into, but they said, if we ban electric dog colours, what happens to your. Fenceless. Fenceless grazing colours. Exactly, what about electric fences in general, are they cruel? Yes. Well, it's interesting because if you don't know what these fenceless colours are, basically you'll have cattle out on a hill and it's not suitable to put a physical fence around them. Or perhaps the fence is changing. I have a GPS one for the dogs. I've never used it. I don't think my dogs are amenable to any form of training, to be honest. But yeah, as soon as they get near the boundary, it gives a vibration. I think it does a noise first or something. Yeah, then a vibration. And then when they go to the boundary, they get a shock. Now, in dogs, I suspect, is that going to be banned? Does that fall under it? But in cattle, what about cattle in that? Sometimes these cattle, for example, are being used as conservation grazers. So they are only allowed to graze a specific area of the hill, because they're leaving some other bit for a habitat or whatever it is. So whether you agree with that or not, that's another story. But it is to keep them grazing in a specific place. I mean, what about the electric shockers in my robots, to get the cows to go out when they finish milking? Well, and this is. And there is. There's a wire that hangs down the robot, and it touches the cows' backs. It's got a little chunk of metal on the bottom of it. And when the cows are finished milking, they're quite comfortable, and they're just quite happy standing there. They'll waste ten minutes standing there. So basically, the little shocker shocks the back, and if they've stood there for longer than five minutes. And then it sends them on their way out. I mean, are they going to ban them? Yes. And I think this is exactly it. A lot of these things are, you know, in theory. They're almost box-ticking of, oh, we care about all this animal welfare stuff. But you try to tell In a Jersey to go out on the robot. You're translating this stuff to on the ground, particularly in the farming world. And it's not cruel, you think. It's not farm as being cruel. There's practicalities of managing big animals often. But anyway, maybe. Right, we'll be back in just a minute. We're going to ask if you've ever considered going offline. And make sure you do stay tuned right until the end of the episode. We have an exciting announcement. [MUSIC PLAYING] OK. OK. I won't lie. I've just got a hot wall wall. [LAUGHS] It's so cold. It is kind of chilly. I've just got my little knickknacks on this heater. I hope that's not a sharp-- if it is, and you've got a heater in sharp, I'm really sorry. It's chilly. It's cold, right, Laura? Well, also, it has been birdie cold up. Well, it's been cold everywhere, hasn't it? But what did you say it got down to? Minus 10. Minus 10. Which is crazy. We-- Sorry, I just sent a soundtrust to people. It's like what you do in them, right? We did have this conversation. I said it on my story. This is going to be a long episode. We're really sorry. Oh, my God, sorry. We're just going for it, Bollocks. We're catching up. We're catching up. We're catching up. And there's a lot of people glorifying cold weather and cute snow picks and walks in the past. Did I send you this at one point when we were deciding what the episode was going to be? And I was just like, can we literally slate everyone that's posted a nice snow picture online? I-- Literally. I tell all of them. It's hell on earth as a farmer. It's miserable. I'm not, like, as in three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning coming out to defrost the robots because they start working because the water supply going into them froze. Like, honestly, it has been-- the poo whoever wouldn't work because the poo was like a slush puppy. And it couldn't suck it up. Like, honestly, the whole thing was murderous. It was awful. It was miserable. You know, we've had calves die. We've had two calves die over the cold weather. I think potentially underlying, like, new-moniary kind of issues. But it's just not on the head. Yeah, yeah. It's been terrible. It has. Anyway, we're getting a little bit toastier in here now with my hot water bottle. Yeah. I have a hot water bottle. I basically have two because I have an actual hot water bottle. And then I'm not going to lie. I don't hate me. Don't come from me, but I have the dog in bed too. And I don't care. Yeah. But I do want even worse. I've got just an electric blanket that I just wipe on nine. I for 12 hours. Oh, Roy wakes up. Don't be like, "Ref, it's hot in here." And I'm like, "Oh, it's so good." Do I need an electric blanket? I think you need one. I bet Amazon. I bet I'll come tomorrow if I order it now. Oh, no. It's the most glorious thing. Is that in here? Yeah. Oh, I really love it. Do you think I wanted to wear you in London? Well, I wanted to get one. Sorry, that explains absolutely no context whatsoever. I wanted to get one. And he was like, "You're not having one. I was like, "I'll just buy a single one then." Anyway, I never did. I'd earn. Fuck it. I'm not being funny. He's away loads of. Yeah. He's never bloody here. Amish. Yeah. Well, I bet they've got electric blankets. He's not telling you. Henry's mum bought us some hand warmers for Christmas. Rechargeable. They are. I bet they're real. I actually have to turn them off. Yes, I actually have to turn them off the hottest setting, because it's so hot. They're amazing. I am that person who literally will put heated seats on max at your face on boiling hot. Rose like I feel sick if you need to open the door. I hate that face. I hate that face. So good. Breathe it in. Breathe it in. Right. Okay, let's get back into it, Charlotte. We have been all around the house. We've gone offline. Now, this is one where I'll show. There's a hand afford to go offline. Well, and actually, that's one thing we'll talk about. I'll play the video that we first saw. Yes, turn right. So let's hope it. I think social media has become less social. Do not hold out. The platform. Rural broadband poverty. To deprioritize the content from normal people. And I actually surveyed a lot of people. And they were telling me that what they really felt repelled by was the kind of chaos that was happening in their feeds. They were competing against news hubbinds, professionalised influencer content. And now AI generated text and images in the video. Do you think we'll get to a kind of posting zero world where people like you and I just are not posting anymore? I think so. I mean, I think it's coming sooner than we expect. Just because there's no incentive. Like, why share your thoughts like that? Why post your selfies or post your breakfast? If you don't get attention for it, you can't reach your friends. I have a 19-year-old daughter and she has basically deleted her social media apps. And I asked her if she missed it, if she missed posting or seeing her friends post when she said not at all. I think social media. Now, I think this is fascinating and I think it's really interesting. This is from BBC Culture, by the way. It was a real on Instagram. I think there has to be a delineation between people who are posting pictures of their children or their breakfast. Although posting pictures of your children, that thing that you said. Do you think you can find it about the fraud, the identity fraud? Do you want me to send me that? Yeah, what's it, the girl? Well, basically, if you post pictures of your children by the time they're like 18, they'll be in a. No, they're basically. Know their first pet's name, know their first school's name, know their mother's maiden name. All of this information can be collated at one point. And basically, there is no privacy anymore. Your children do not have privacy. Yep. And they don't. No, no. Because people. Well, I've even done it with the children in the past. I've called Anna, Alma, like Anna Lillian. I would say her full name. And then her Barclays, you know, Bank account, for instance, in 10 years' time, "Oh, yeah, what's your middle name?" We're just sharing everything. Nossing is off-limits. Absolutely. And as you know, there is that delineation between posting family things for, you know, a digital diary as it were, versus, I guess, we're perhaps the next level of. I think, yeah, we are the problem. Posting art, actually. No, I don't think we are the problem. I think I am the problem. And then, like, you do share some shite. I do share some of the shirriest shite. Mine's like a crossover. It's really hard work for me, because mine's like a crossover of expressing my personality and then being that one step above that's like the polished version of what an influencer marketing person should be. I'm somewhere, like, torn between the two, and I find it really difficult. But we're not professional branded content, but we are showing everyday lives. It's a very. it's a weird line to tread. And it's an all-enacidental thing as well, like, none of this is on purpose. We're not reaching to be influencers. It's really very bizarre. The thing which I think of, though, is if you are a business and you use social media for sales, then where do you sit when this next generation of 18 year olds are not going to consume your content on social media, therefore they won't come and eat at your restaurant or will we go back to a very much more traditional word of mouth than that? That's how it should be. Is that. We all say, "God, I wish I could go back to the 90s, go back to the 80s, you know, when we were younger and you went out." I mean, I posted something yesterday. I think it was on Instagram where it was basically saying, "Right, we're going back to the 90s now, kids." I want you outside in this garden and you basically don't come in until it goes dark and you're ready to go to sleep. And then the little boy goes, "Oh, I don't know where my brother is." And he's like, "Good, that's the 90s. I don't want to know where you are. I don't want you to be here. Go outside and stay outside." You know, when the street lights come on, come home. This is what I grew up playing. And I wonder whether I always yearn for that nostalgic, kind of, simpler way of life, should we say, where we should go, but then again, I mean, I am absolutely overly protective of my kids. We're in a different, more dangerous world, though. I think it's interesting. So one of the comments on this post is from somebody called Jamie Perkins, who has. I mean, I looked him up and he has nearly two million subscribers on YouTubers. He gets to do with cars, but I don't know. And then 260,000 followers on Instagram. So a big creator. And this was his comment, which I thought was quite interesting. It's not social media anymore. Now it's interest/advertisement media. Social media used to be awesome because it allowed us to grow communities and connect with them. It felt like virtual friendships. You could post as much as you liked and know that your community would see what you posted in Vice-Versa. It was a more human experience because you were seeing things you both liked and didn't like. It allowed the posters and viewers to be more well-rounded in the experience, really good point. But now people are increasingly scared to post their more human experiences because they may not fit into what the algorithm expects from them, which also affects the poster self-esteem because they end up feeling like anything they post outside of a niche doesn't get seen in isn't good enough. 100% of that stuff. Like they themselves aren't good enough, so they stop posting altogether. Or like others, you're just post about farming. Yes. Farming, farming, farming. Now I know what posts make good videos for me. I don't post them because it's shit. Honestly, it's just a shite. Posts for me that do well are like the cow going down the belt. Which we've talked about this. It's bloody ridiculous. It's 45 million now. It's ridiculous. That's why I'm- No offense to the content. It's ridiculous. All the offense to the content. Why I just don't understand. But that's the kind of content that does well for me. And I have got so much of it because it just happens all around me all day. But that's not necessarily who I am as a person. It's not really what I want to come across like. Have you ever seen a girl called, I think she's called Simone. Really nice, has a huge limit bowl. No, I don't think I have. Is it Simone Dawson? I don't know. Really, really cool. She's side off on TikTok. She's on Instagram as well. Anyway, her videos are basically her going and hugging the bowl. So walking up to it and going, "You need to hug." And she just flops on the bowl. And the bowl obviously is huge. She goes in big man. It doesn't move. It's just so sad. It's like a fly on its ass. It's really not bothered this bowl. And it's towards it's just- It's a video that you've seen once. You've seen it once. Kelly, paying ond echi ac of את mae maen chardio'r Why are it once you're not learning anything it just is what it is. 吗: Yes. Kelly, absolutely viral. just monthly,ewy A Minnie's and Millions and Millions and Millions and Millions! OriekinaЕ Kelly, I really did no Simone's quite clever. in the sense that she'd post this in various zej Conc乐 isons Conc乐 Conc乐 Cock nightmare Чcab ill Conc乐 Hellyer Chr disk Dynase Conc Pray Conc乐 Insmy 부�chy Concsight كل Ghend time How do you work? واה G dropped tum m make ensity problem i j -Rass Combat jaws G причa University -No. -No, map pandemic dao. -Dao ε inventionsjau adagog gweitha со'n Vorogi a stanig ddри efallじゃない? -Net 오 styling honol -Øtng -Queitoooo -Garjed Shies Mask Tess -Ex Receitret hundre f -No it Dawn -R Operais a'u myns графu "Al bydfiade" wna chi'r medi ddiwedd diddiad ond yn gallen llph doble. Pleitarain unri eisiau unri fel. Daar y fath enrtynu ac unri Geefost yn petitidd o yn cael pethan, mwy fath u Comelliann esu, Kelly TCPCI resuun amut <3 Mae'r payoffu i chi'r ddiad. Felatud rhiss והuwr gallu pan fntau מה WiFi. Felly mae Romddoedd mae roedd yw poni'r ast Yu'muine Roedd. Is that going to get people to click on it? But the repeated viral content, I've never had a viral video. Never had one. Your personal is very information, though, aren't they? But I tell you what, there's normally a picture of you, which will do well anyway. And then more caption written word. Which is your thing. Which is my thing. But I just haven't been asked with Instagram. And do you know what? I'm not enjoyable anymore, is that? I kind of wake up and think, "Oh gosh, I must do a post today." Well, if you're waking up thinking, "I must do a post." That's where I got with YouTube. That's the problem. That's the problem, it's to this. Unless you get your tits out and you're on only fans as a side. Yeah. You're not doing very well anymore. Mm. Mm. And I just, I got sick of it. Yes. I got sick of being in this competitive world of, you know, who's doing better and looking at views. I mean, I genuinely couldn't give a shit what other people's views are. I really, really, really couldn't. I know who my friends are. Yeah. And I want them to do well. Regardless of whether that's in direct competition to me or not, I really couldn't care less. Yes. Because I'm doing all right. I'm happy. Yes. You're doing all right. You're happy. And I think that's the difference. Well, I think there are a lot of toxic people on social media who will climb over you. I think it perpetuates that. Listen to me. What a word. It does, it does, it, it, social media will foster that environment. Mm. And I think it really does. And it also, you know, when we're saying about getting stuck in your, your algorithm, this is where the young girls are brought in. And I know we're going to do a future episode on, basically on pornography, which is very interesting for us. It will actually be a very interesting episode. This is how these girls end up going down this route and being stuck in this route because, you know, they, they post a picture fully, you know, wrapped up like a fish supper, should we say. And they get no views. And then they post a picture in their shorts and they get views. And it goes through the roof. So they do it again, a little bit of a, you know, experiment. And look, this is it. More views when they've got shorts on. Then they have a crop top on. They're all they get more views. Yeah. And they've got, they're nipples visible through their t-shirt. I can see how it happens, you know, and, oh, and then they're stood there in a little bit of a pro-provocative pose. Yes. And more views. Oh, my God. This is so good because I'm feeling down as a person anyway. You know, I've got a pretty shit life. And I'm feeling self-conscious. I'm not feeling very good about myself. And it reinforces that that's your value. That's who you are. Going back to the comment on that video as well. The algorithm, and we joke about, oh, yeah, my algorithms, well, mine's probably just farming and some random cats or something. I don't know. But that algorithm is exactly right to say you are not getting a well-rounded, balanced view because say you are very easy to say it's an a rabbit hole of algorithm. This is it. Yeah. When we came back on the train and we watched the Louis Thru documentary, didn't we? When he was in, yes, Israel. And then my feed afterwards, because obviously I'm not being funny. You've fallen listening to you. It's on real. My feed afterwards was literally anti-Jew basically. I was, I was practically hitly looking at my Instagram. Honestly, it was on real. And I'm like, holy shit. Like this is unreal. But like the more you watch, the more it sends, the more you watch, the more it sends, that's how it works. So when a man comes to you and says, oh, Instagram is young girls in bikinis. It's an algorithm that shows you more of what you want. Yes. So that's how it works. And then laterally, I'm now on, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. Yes. And I now hate all Asian people. I do. I just, that's my, it honestly, it feeds you what it thinks you want because it's all about keeping you hooked. Yes. It's a bloody dangerous place to social media. It really is. And you wonder why I don't let my children on it. As the biggest hypocrite in the world who creates on social media, my kids do not go on it. Well, this is a good comment again on the community. Lady called Donia. I take time off from social media over Christmas and New Year with the mindset that it's family time. And most followers will be having family time too. So a break won't hurt. It's also a positive example for my kids that sometimes it's better to have a break, finding it hard to get back into the swing of creating content for my business page now though. And I think that's it. Once you get out of the swing of it, it feels quite nice not to be tied by social media. It feels, it feels like this release of, you know, because we'll get back, you know, and other people running their own businesses, et cetera. It's not a nine till five. See, you finish your job at whatever time. You don't finish at five and you get back at whatever time. By the time you've cooked tea or done some washing, whatever, then you think, Oh, shit, I haven't done a post. Then you have to sit down and try and create a post. If it doesn't feel good, stop doing it. I mean that if, you're not enjoying the creation of what you are creating, just stop. Do you stop? It comes through, people see, it's not, it doesn't make this social media is not who you are. So I, we will, we were going to go into this on a future episode, which is actually quite big. I, how do I tell half the story without it sounded absolutely horrendous. I was arrested. She's actually not joking. No, I'm not joking. It wasn't me. Basically, I'll put that there, it wasn't me. Everything's fine. Everything's clear. This was, I think, was it three years ago in May? It was a long time ago. Anyway, anyway. We will go into it because it's actually a really interesting story of how it came to be me out of the blue that got taken in by the police. So my phone was taken off me. And this is the reason why I'm telling me this. So my phone was removed from my persons and was actually, that was the reason for my arrest. Yes. Was to remove the phone from me. It sounds like a really juicy story. Yeah. And it is, it's even more crazy than what you think it is, but I'll just put it, it was not me. It wasn't me. It wasn't Charlotte. Okay. It promised me. It promised. Anyway, they removed my phone from me. And I thought, good God. And obviously being the most innocent naive person ever, and I'd never been arrested in my life and ever had my phone taken from me. I asked the man, you know, when can I get it back? You know, I create YouTube videos like it was the most important thing in the world considering I was in the back of a fucking transit connect in the Dimpot Hangar Son. I wish he would have done it. But he didn't. And he said, we'll be as quick as we can. And I'm thinking, did they need a few days? No, no, it was months. So I ended it up being without a mobile telephone for I think it was a fortnight. I was without one completely good God. It was bliss. Yeah. I'm not lying. Once I got over that initial, oh my God, the lifeline of having that in your hand all the time. Well, yeah, because I do, I mean, we've talked about this before. I struggle conversationally sometimes to keep my attention on what I should be attentioning. It's a thing. And I often will mess around. I'll play with I do use it as a crutch. Yes. Very much do use that messing around my thumb. It's an addiction. It's awful. Don't give you children mobile phones. Because you'll end up like me. But the bliss of not having a mobile phone, I can't even tell you. Yeah. It was unreal. That reset was it was real. It was a real switch off. And it was a real pivotal moment where I realized I was creating every other day YouTube videos with three items of short form content going on every single platform every day. It's actually it takes a lot of life. Honestly, on real side, I was creating three short form videos. So your reels or your TikToks, for instance, I'd be posting three on TikTok. I'd be posting three on Instagram. I'd be posting three on YouTube shorts. I really was can in the social media. And don't get me wrong. As you've just written in a bio about me, she has a really good cross cross or social media present. I do. But God, did it take some getting there? But doing that wasn't a sustainable thing. Yeah. It's not it wasn't a sustainable thing to be doing. So having that reset and having my phone taken off me, although I wouldn't wish it wasn't in the context of being arrested. It did bring about quite a sharp change in what I do. And I now no longer do every other day YouTube videos. I don't bother. I post one when I fancy. Yes. I don't do a Tom Pemberton and say, you know, every Monday, Wednesday and sometimes we do a Sunday video. No, no, no. I do what I want. Yes. If I don't fancy posting one for two weeks, I won't. Yes. And that's how I'm going to keep it. If I don't fancy posting on Instagram for a week and a half, I'm not going to bother. No, I don't care. No. In terms of for say influencers who earn income through social media or business, who sell goods through social media, going offline could threaten your income stream. It will do. So at what point do you balance the constant treadmill of creation? With actually that's how you earn your money. It'd be very interesting going forwards because businesses that's social media is not necessarily their core income. If people are stopping watching social media, which it's basically what it's become a third TV channel, hasn't it really? Yeah. It really has. You know, you've got your television on your television, you had your computer, now you've got your phone. And I think, you know, it'd be very interesting to look at the viewing numbers for things like Coronation Street, by the way, it's just combined with Emma Dale. Emma Dale. What the hell? A Corrie Dale. Is it a continued? I have no idea. I saw it on just on the telly last night. I thought what on earth is that? But this is the desperation of television companies. They are no longer in control of the media. We are. One person I thought of, but it can also be taken away. Yeah. One person I thought of in terms of creating a business through social media was Eden, like Shalamboxes. I feel like we talk about Eden all the time. We do, she's so cool. But what they have done on so, you know, have they got a million followers on TikTok or something like that? Have they? I don't know off that. I remember when she was at like 10,000. I'm so happy if she is. I don't know if I've made that. I love that girl. Or maybe it's like a half a million or something. But still, freak me. It's an awful lot of followers. Where's Lang Pisholam uses? Lang Pisholam boxes. Bear with, bear with, bear with. It's really throwing me. Is that Lang Pisholam? There we go. On TikTok. Okay, I like. Okay, they've got 288,000 on TikTok. But that's unreal. And they sell their meat. I mean, I know they have a website, but social media has been absolutely massive for them to build there. But actually, what you think is then do we have to look to other? Is it websites? Is it email lists? You know, is it? Are you then, are you now trying to then directly engage with people who you know are your consumers and your customers and you have to just stick with them? But yeah, small businesses say if you look here Coronation Street, which is a huge production with a production company, a studio, actors, they only get three and four million views per episode. Holy shit. That's crazy, isn't it? Well, considering when you just equate it to me getting 40 million, 40 million on a video and I have no production company, I am just me on my own. Media has changed. It really has. It's very interesting. And I don't, I don't watch TV anymore. One thing that, so is it going to be the case that it's for social media? If I don't watch TV anymore, on the next generation, not going to watch their phones anymore? Yeah. Like all of this can be taken away. Yeah, absolutely. In terms of I just want to touch on the idea that social media is good for knowledge, transfer and education. Now, if we so it's a farmer to farm a knowledge transfer 100%, we are learning from other farmers on social media. Yeah. However, importantly, there's also the farmer to consume a knowledge transfer. You know, we talked about animal welfare at the start of this episode. We can show exactly what we're doing for animal welfare with a quick reel on Instagram. And that could reach tens of thousands, millions of people. I always said on TikTok, you know, in the days when I was really canning out that content, you can't argue with the truth. And if I show you, I don't mean just say, this is what happens because someone says, no, that doesn't happen. If I show you something happening live, people can't dispute as much. Yeah. And I think reaching people was a lot easier. It's a lot easier reaching than with something sexy, you know, it's something going wrong. Yes. I only used to say a naked woman fires or well, a crush. Yes. So true. And this is exactly it. People are easily pleased in a second, don't they? I'm easily pleased though. That's the thing. I am like the consumer of this media and I am easily pleased. We haven't really talked about the mental health impact of going offline, but we might just park that for now. What about the mental health impact of staying online where there's a community? Now, yes, we've talked about the fact that has the sense of community being lost. No, there's still very much places in the virtual world where people find community. Like even a very, very small example at the moment we've talked about the cold weather. There's a real sense of community and solidarity with farmers who are clearing road to the weather updates. North York's weather updates. That's brilliant. Crazy age. It's not even about weather updates. No, it's not anymore. It's just, it's anything. It's samshut spotting. That's what it is. Oh my god, it spotted samshut on the waiting auction. I'm like, what the hell's this got to do with weather? Isn't it? And they'll take a picture of a car. Yes. I don't like this. It's really weird. That's so funny. No, it's it's branched into a lot more than North Yorkshire weather. A lot more than just North Yorkshire or whatever. Do you know what? I feel the sense of community when I go on a page. So Facebook pages and Facebook groups. Very, very niche ones. So I used to be a member of well, still I'm a member, but of needle felting UK. Yeah. And that is a group of, I'm going to say slightly more not withdrawn. I mean, what's what's the word when you're like a not alone, not like segregated segregated? No, sort of like a, well, you know, personality types when they're like an outrageous person or like, like, in front of a person. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. How do we get so long to get? It's because I'm not one. Like they're more introverted kind of people, I would say. They're into their craft. So slightly quieter. Yes. There is a real sense of community on that page. Really? Honestly, there really is. These people, there's people that post every day and you see people supporting other people. Someone will post, you know, a needle feltered dog that they've done and everyone will jump on. This is amazing. So proud of you. This is so good. Maybe try using this technique. It's a really interesting, different little subsection of like, you know, Facebook society. Yes. Yeah. And then like ladies that land. Yes. That's, that's supposed. There's a society. Mostly supportive people that don't know what they're doing. Sometimes quite heavily aggressive, actually, in bitchy, but it's absolutely comedy. We get so much joy out of watching it happen, don't we? The amount of times, the amount of people on there who need to read the animal welfare strategy. I know God, God do that. How do I stitch up a lamb? You don't. You don't. You don't. Has anyone else performed major surgery before on their own without a vet and any other setting? How do a vet? Honestly. When that woman had literally a lamb dying bleeding led open in a bathtub and there was blood everywhere and she was like, God, what would you do with this? Call of it. I'll be call of it or shoot it, actually. There's two quite obvious options. And weirdly, it seems like you're not following either. I can't believe that. Can we start a like viewing side group of ladies that love her? Like a side hustle kind of viewing group where we all just like send things in and talk about it? I mean, we've got Twitter ones. Surely we can have a Facebook one. Surely. Because it's comedy gold. Well, it's slightly dangerous comedy gold, but it's comedy gold. I mean, thank God all the vegans and things don't go on these pages because good grief, they get some mileage out of it, wouldn't they? There's people who, perhaps, should not be owning animals and they are the bad eggs, the majority of good eggs, but there's bad eggs. Every single sector. They're not doing it maliciously. They're doing it out of my equity. So it's fair. They really are. Yeah. And that is the worrying thing. Because looking after a farm animal livestock requires more knowledge and more facilities, et cetera, et cetera, than a dog or a cat. Now, I'm not saying they don't require looking after because they do, but well, they're not as stupid as farm animals. I don't think they're definitely not as stupid as sheep. Oh, that's not what I get started on that. Oh, my God. Right. Well, I don't want to look at what time we're out on this episode. One hour, 26 minutes, therefore, seconds. Right. Slide. I'll probably trim, trim me down. I'll trim me down to one hour, 15. I'm going to say. Okay. Well, before we go, though, very quickly, we have our exciting announcement. We have partnered with BKT and Kirby Tires as our headline sponsor for our next series. They've been big supporters of us and the agricultural world when it comes to tires as well. So we're really excited to see that relationship. For a risk. Sorry. Can we just put in the other rooms? Oh, yes. They've been good. They've been good. But we will be working with them for the next series. And yeah, really great company to work with. As you know, I actually like that. That's organic. I know that I like not like do the whole silly thing. Like you, you've been a speaker for them for a couple of years at Lama. Yeah. You've hosted their panel discussions. Yes. I've, you know, made content and climbed all over the tires. You do not climb on. You know, that kind of thing. It has just, it hasn't been. Well, I think when we set out with podcast. It's not natural. It's never really wanted to be the people that kind of sought. Sell out to just get money from somebody wherever it came from. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I just found the whole subject a bit like a fan of social media subject. Really, really difficult to comprehend that you were asking somebody for something. I really did. Yeah. It took some coming to terms with it, but actually being someone that you really know and like, yeah, I suppose it makes a difference, doesn't it? Absolutely. Well, as always, if you enjoyed our episode, if you learned something, if you had a laugh, please do leave us a review. If you have friends who you think would like to listen to us, then drop them a link to our episodes. And that's it. Bye next time when we've got a giant tire behind us. Oh my gosh. Start. We need to get that side. No, we're thinking. I mean, people can join in on this. We're thinking a tire table. Yeah, we're wondering, can we get a tire table in here? I'm thinking like a tire on its side with the table on top. With the table on top. Oh, are you an engineer, Charlotte? I know some of them. I love you getting a car. See you next time. Bye.