Episode 2: Proper Drill Shit

This is Pop Smoke in November 2018. He's standing on the corner in Knausey Brooklyn, surrounded by like 20 of his friends and one guy with a camera. This is just a few months after Pop first got on the mic and even though we just started rapping, he's given an interview. Famous rapper style with Mel's TV. Mel's runs a YouTube channel devoted to all the hottest street rappers in Brooklyn. In the interview, Pop is wearing an ankle bracelet from his 2017 arrests. The one with a cops friend up in his mom's place and found a gun, weed and counterfeiting equipment. Pop and his friends are outside of a pizza spot in the floor, so is Pop. He keeps putting new people into the frame to shout them out in front of the camera to give them a net time shot. There's a cop car in the corner watching the whole time. Meanwhile, Pop is bragging about how he's ready to take over the rap game. Everyone's putting on a show for the camera and big enough Pop who was the reason they're being filmed. They're being watched by the cops the whole time. When the cops finally get out of their car to approach the crew, they just get taunted. And the craziest thing about this interview, the fact that it's happening at all, Pop hadn't even released a song yet. It was almost just like he was myth-making from the start, from that interview, just the way he's standing there. Everybody's surrounding him. Alphonse Pierre is a staff writer at pitchfork. So I'm from the flaws. I'm from Konnasi yourself. They told me he from Konnasi. He's from East 92. He's from East 92. The very same block that Pop claims. And he writes a lot about different local rap scenes. So he was early on a new sound coming out of Brooklyn. He noticed Pop from that very first Mel's TV interview. It's almost just like standing like above everybody. And even if that video was on mute and you would just look at the circle of people standing there, you would know Pop Smoke was the one that they were talking about. And at the center of everything Pop did, even as his music started to really blow up, was Konnasi, the Flawsy. It was just like, you almost felt like you were there on the block with Pop Smoke. He made Konnasi feel like the most important place in the world. Welcome to Complex Subject Pop Smoke. It's a show about how a kid from Konnasi, Brooklyn took his neighborhood sound and its beefs and used it all to become a superstar. And how it all got taken away too soon. This is episode two, Prop Adrochet. I'm your host, Punch. One of Pop's very first songs was MPR, Money, Power, Respect. Now, if you've heard this song before, you notice that this version is a little different. It's actually the original. And Pop wanted a music video for it. So his friend connected him to a director. That's the director, VLens. He remembers that when he started shooting the video, Pop was still trying to figure out what to call himself. Yeah, GQ, not a great rat name. But one thing was clear. VLens was down to make the video for MPR, but he saw a pretty big obstacle. They have a day of shooting in August 2018. Pop pays VLens half of its fee. But then go soon. And a few months later, I got a phone call, let's shoot the video right now. I got a bunch of people that be in the last shoot the video right now. I'm like, it's four in the morning. This is impossible. Right. It's not going to work. All of a sudden he wants to finish the video in the middle of the night. VLens decided to roll with it. Pop put me in an Uber from Harlem to far Rockaway, which was like at the time. I'm like, you didn't even want to pay me $350 for a video. This Uber's like $100. So I'm like, he must be serious. So he sent the Uber. We take the Uber while I'm in the Uber. He's telling me like gross mad girls here. It's fun. There's a big party. So I get there. It's just nothing but dudes. A rapper exaggerating how turned up the party is. No. I never see now before. But VLens realized all the dudes here were the key to the whole thing. They were pops-rotted dies. Pop wanted the video to be about them. Just as much as he wanted the video to be about him. He's a catch him. Catch all of them. Don't worry about me. He was like, I just want him to show as well. I want you to see my family, my brother. He's like, I want everybody to shine in the video. On December 19th, 2018, Pop's very first music video was uploaded to YouTube. And had all the Pop's guys in it. There was also a lot of crimp imagery, blue rags, blue bandannas, people throwing up gang signs. There was footage from that party. VLens talked about. And yeah, it definitely looks like it was all dudes in there. Most important of all, Pop released the video and re-released the song with a new beat. It was by a kid from the UK named 808 Mello. With the new beat came a new persona. Pop smoke was in. GQ was out. MPR turn heads locally because of the videos. People love to see the flaws represented. Pop shot it out as block. East 90s second street. Or at 092 in Knaarsie. And like all the best rap songs, MPR was all about the real inside of the details. Stuff you only know of you from Knaarsie. Pop was talking about his friends like Nappy Blue. Nappy was the guy who's house everybody used to chill out. The song had a likeness to it, a sense of humor. Pop even made a joke about his construction job. You get it. And pop rap this set. Eight douche train with a 823 crit. All the gang talks, the beat, the attitude made MPR fit right into the genre of drill rap. This was the Brooklyn version though. Drill is a pretty new style of music. I'm a first hearing it back in the early 2010s. And it was all coming from one place, Chicago. At that time, the FBI was calling it the murder capital of the US. In fact, the whole name of the style, drill, it's a slang word for killing. The early Chicago stuff was very dark. I've actually never heard deaf spoken about so loosely in my life. All these guys were like, it's a really just gang banging. Believe it or not. That's all they were doing. Peter Jitillon was a big Tom manager now. He worked with Juice World and he co-managed his trippy red. But back when drill was first blowing up, Peter was promoting rap shows in Chicago. I don't think Chicago knew like this is going to become something like they're like, we're going to kill your homie. But we're going to rhyme about it. A lot of the Chicago drill rappers were only teenagers. This was not rap about trying to get rich. It sounded like they were actually trying to kill each other. This was a firsthand encounter to gang violence that they were in the middle of. These young rappers were actually putting hits out in these songs and people were really dying. Drill also had a different sound. They took trap beats from Atlanta which were super hot at the time. Then mixed it in with busy snare drum patterns that they heard from their local marching band. A sprinkle of footwork and juke were added. These were the dance music styles that the shy was famous for. You can hear all of this in this G Herbosong gangway produced by DJL. Starting in respect, quick earned it with 100 kick ran it to some beef. Then my young you started dumping shit. A couple Chicago drill artists, chief Keith, low dirt, G Herbos blew up huge. But back in Brooklyn, kids were fucking with that sound heavy. So they took it and added one big component, dance ability. Tell me about this signature dance and you have a few of them. Like it's organic. I'm saying like it's just regular, like just make you want to. Yeah, like okay. Brooklyn was just coming out of the Bobby Schmurder Aaron. (crickets chirping) - That little beat, how the heck am I? - Bobby Schmurder blew up in 2014 with his viral hit Hot Nigger. He's from East Flatbush, and just like the floss, it has a lot of people from the Caribbean. And one thing about Caribbean people, they got to dance for everything. Every style of music has its own way of moving to it. Dance hall, reggae, rock steady, soka. So it wasn't a surprise that the video for Hot Nigger had a whole lot of dance and mixed in with that tough talk and gang energy. I mean, remember the Schmurder dance? That shit was legendary. (upbeat music) The beats Bobby was rapping over when not drill beats. This was trap music. But when Brooklyn rappers started making their own version of drill, they kept Bobby spirit. This music was still about gangs. It was still about violence, but it was kind of fun. That's Brooklyn drill. (upbeat music) That's suburban by Tutu Gs. It came out at the end of 2016 and it was Brooklyn drill's first big hit. The next big Brooklyn drill song was No Suburban by Chef G. It's a response to suburban. See, Chef is Tutu's aunt, his rival. And in No Suburban, Chef doesn't hold back. He does his Tutu's crew by name, The Blickeys. (upbeat music) This kind of music was really big in some Brooklyn neighborhoods. But it hadn't broke nationally yet. It needed the right person for that. Someone with a great voice, great backstory. Someone with killer beats, someone like. (upbeat music) Pop smoke. (upbeat music) He's proper like drill shit. And I'm saying, I can tell that he lives that kind of life. And I'm saying. - That's when we come back. Welcome back. Artists draw inspiration from what's around him. And in 2018, Pop was surrounded by Brooklyn drill. It was all happening in Knaarsie and the surrounding neighborhoods. So as pop starts taking music more seriously, he obviously wants to sound like the hottest rappers in the game. Rap is like Chef G. So first step, go to YouTube. - I saw looking up beats. - This is Pop with British radio personality DJ Semtex. - And when I looked up beats, I looked up Chef G. - What? - I was saying. So right under Chef G. So it was just like a beat that said 808 Mello. - At the time 808 Mello was a college kid in the UK making beats for fun. I mean, of course it's say UK. It's say UK. But at the time I'm not really thinking too deep into it. 'Cause that's just the type of ball I was listening to. Mello has no idea what's going on. Pop continues to use his beats to make the new version of NPR and this second song Flexing. - Take it all, look. All I make is do I be flexing like that? I deffy to do my check-in check. - Then Pop makes Welcome to the Party and it blows up. - Baby Welcome to the Party. I'm off the mic, Zane Lee. That's why I'm over at time. Baby Welcome to the Party. - Huh? I hit the boy up and then I go skating around. - [BEEP] - Okay, the very first time I heard Posna is actually Welcome to the Party. I was thinking what the fuck? - That's 808 Mello, the London producer. Pop finally got his attention. But when he hears the song, he's like, "Hey, Scott's taking my beats." - And then they go press me. He's like, "Yo, you gotta pay for this beat, bro." - Mello says he wasn't really mad that this rapper just swiped his beats. He was actually impressed. - Like, it's different. It wasn't just so aggressive. You want people to dance, you know what I'm saying? - Beats from London kids like Mello are quickly becoming the sound of Brooklyn Street rap. Now that makes sound strange. Why would Brooklyn rappers get into beats from guys all the way in London? What's the UK even know about drill? Turns out a whole lot. For one, they got their own street shit going on. My block is blood, my block is crap. You gotta say like, this is what our life is like. Is it, I've noticed in places that don't have blood crap that it's a lot more neighborhood like our areas? Is it like that? Oh, yeah, I've just got your own gangs. You get what I mean? Because nobody know. We intrigue by your world. - Yeah, yeah. Basically it's called like a postcode war. Like the house you're from. - Yeah. - That's what they call it. They call it by the name of their state block they're from, the flat they're from. - Okay. So they call their projects as states and depending on which block your estate is on, it'll determine who you're beefing with. Before talking to Mello, I didn't know any of this, but it makes sense. Who's a similar all over the world? I've seen it throughout my touring. If you have some guys who keep you safe and they feel like your family, you're going fight for them. Whether they wrap a flag, a neighborhood, or on a state block, it's all the same thing. Beyond the street wars, Brooklyn and London share something else. - New York, especially Brooklyn. It's a lot of fucking, uh, gyal people, Caribbean people. Here's Pop again with DJ SEMTECS. - The only way you can tell a London they go from New York, New York is when he talk. Even with that, we still got the same slang 'cause we still yardy. It was there. So all that ting, ting, ting, ting, you get us, too. - Facts. You can't go on a block in the floss without hearing someone. You some kind of slang from the islands. The beats, London producers were making connected with Brooklyn rappers because of these similarities. Island culture, dancing, the streets. But the way they came together was just by chance. Chicago drew landed with kids all over the world and London was no exception. But it was the London teenagers like Mellow who took the sound and put their own spin on it. They added grime baselines and turned up the tempo and they threw the results up on YouTube. - Was the first beat hot or you made some bullshit? (laughing) - It was some bullshit. (laughing) I understand, I understand. - In a, yeah, I'll start to film myself. That's when I started to like put myself from YouTube. - Mellow along with a whole army of London producers label their videos with titles like Drillstow beats. That's how early Brooklyn rappers like Chef found their sound. When Chef got big, the video named from the UK changed to titles like Chef G type beat. That's how pop found his beats and ultimately found Mellow. Remember that weak version of MPR we heard at the beginning? That song wouldn't have gone anywhere if it wasn't for Mellow's beat. ♪ This is a Mellow beat ♪ ♪ I need that money that bar respect ♪ - Shit, Pop might have still been calling himself GQ. ♪ I need that money that bar respect ♪ ♪ I need that money ♪ - But with Mellow on his side, Pop really had something strong. People in his hood were starting to pay attention, but a few YouTube plays from people in Knaarcy isn't gonna make you rich. Pop needed someone connected in the music biz to help him take it to the next level, to move and pass the YouTube beats and to run and gun videos. In late 2018, word about Pop gets to Stephen Victor. Stephen's a vice president at Universal and like so many people in this story, he's also from Knaarcy. - We were in LA at then, Rick Ross called Pusher. He's like, "Yo, I'm in Hawaii working with Kanye. "If you wanna talk to him, I'm gonna put him on the floor." - Now, Stephen, he's that dude. He manages Pusher T and yeah, he's work with Kanye. He has his own label, Victor Victor. So Stephen's A&R, Rico Beats, tells him about this hot and water. - I don't wanna say I dismiss him, but I dismiss him, right? - Yeah. - And at the same time, I had some stuff that I was dealing with too. So, this is November. But as A&R keeps bugging him. - So all of November, he's keeps talking me about Pop. All of December, he keeps talking me about Pop. January comes, he's still on Pop Smoke. So, he's like, "Yo, you got to meet him, you got to meet him." February comes, he's still on Pop Smoke. It gets to the point where he's like, "Listen, okay, I get it." But I've told this kid that I was gonna get him meeting with you. And I was in him saying that I was gonna be able to sign him, like just take the meeting as a favor, bro. So I don't look like a liar. - In fact, you know what I'm saying? He's like, "Just take the meeting for me as a favor." So I'm like, "All right, cool." - Finally, in early 2019, after months of delays, Stephen agrees to have the meeting, but he's not gonna stay long. - So I got my jacket on and everything. I'm ready, you know what I'm saying? I really got the plan. I'm gonna go in here. I'm gonna stay here for like five minutes, be respectful, and then I'm gonna leave. That's the plan in my mind, right? - Yeah. - That was the plan. And then Pop walked in. - So I go into office, you know, I have some small talk with Pop. And I'm like, "Man, his kid's in tent." He's like staring at me. He's staring at me, you know what I'm saying? He's like staring at me. I'm like, "Yo, is this nigga gonna try to beat me up if I don't like his music?" - But then he starts to hear the songs. - He starts playing his music. - And then when he left, I was like, "I'm he dead." And I'm like, "This is different, his voice is different." I don't know if I like it or if I don't like it, but it's something interesting about it. It takes a third song, it's the same reaction. It takes a fourth song. I'm like, "Man, you're gonna do it right." This kid's like a really good song right now. He's a fifth song. (dramatic music) - Please sit, sit, song. He plays like 10 songs, and I'm like, I'm thinking of myself, I'm like, "This, I'm using something really, really good." Damn. (dramatic music) Like I plan to be there five minutes, I'm in there for like 45 minutes to an hour. (laughs) So I leave, I leave the meeting, a Puerto Rico, and I'm like, "Yo, bro, this kid, "you need to just forget about everything you're working on, "you need to just focus on this kid. "This kid is gonna be, like, he's gonna be massive. "I was like, I don't know how big he's gonna be, "or when, but this kid's gonna be a superstar, "and he's gonna change your life." (dramatic music) Next time on Complex Subject, Pop Smoke, we get into the Hidden Rivalry that drives Brooklyn Drill. - Like me and Pop Smoke, we got like all the same friends, all the same enemies. - Complex Subject, Pop Smoke, is a Spotify original podcast and partnership with Complex. This episode was written and reported by Sean Citerro. Our senior producers, Shiva Bayyat, our associate producer and sound designer, is Mira El-Rahim. Our editor is Audrey Quinn. Our engineer is William Smith, original music by Johnny Baker. Additional research done by Sophia, Steiner Evoy, executive producers from Spotify include Gina Delvack and Gifalya Dore. Executive producers from Complex include Donne Quack, Nick Wang and Justin Killian. Special thanks to Alex Friedman, Jessica Dow, Eric Skeleton, Sean Celle Korea, Tlaiba Newman, and Jennifer Stewart. I'm your host, Punch.