Episode #2: Dr. Jarod Burton

0:00 Dr. Burton's Journey: Athlete, Coach, Chiropractor Yeah, let's get started intros here. Got Doctor Jared Burton with us. This is going to be a second episode. Doctor Burton, do you want to run people through your background as an athlete and then your evolution into being a strength coach and then how you, you know, add your experience as a strength coach and how that led you to choose the chiropractic profession? 0:26 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, thank you for having me on. 0:29 Speaker 3 I appreciate it, it's always nice talking to you. So background, I pretty much played baseball and before 1 sport playing one sport was popular that was me. And so I was good at one thing, I could hit a ball far and hard and that's what got me to at least playing at a smaller Division One. 0:51 And then some stuff happened with coaches falling out. So then went and played a good old NAIA. And so biggest thing though, throughout my entire career, even starting at the age of 12, I had excruciating back pain at the time would go to different physical therapists. 1:09 The goal was always core strengthening. So tons and tons of planks and nothing really, you know, everything took time, you know, nothing was like fast resolving. Everything was like, you know, 3 to, you know, 4-5 month process. 1:24 And then all throughout college I was pretty much playing hurt. I mean, I was just, I mean one time I hit a home run and literally on my home run swing, I had a quad string, you know, like. 1:37 Speaker 2 Silly stuff like that. This. 1:38 Speaker 3 Never, ever happened. But it was happening. 1:42 Eye-Opening Experience with Neuro-Based Training And so after my junior, yeah, the summer of my junior year, took a trip around the country, visited a bunch of different facilities, strength coaches and just had my mind just completely blown and had basically at that point is what got me off essentially on the track and running. 2:06 You know, so it's like when you have this crazy eye opening experience, it just dramatically just shifts your whole trajectory of things that you want to do 'cause I always thought about, well, you know, maybe I want to be a, a Pete, you know, a physical therapist or maybe a strength coach. Maybe I want to be a police officer. I didn't really know what I wanted to be. 2:24 And so, so those are when I got started getting exposed to different kind of neuro stuff, different strength training styles. And then I went back for my senior year and I would say I, I didn't fully implement stuff, but one of the things that I knew that the stuff worked was that I still was a little bit injured. 2:49 My senior year wasn't fully implementing like long duration isometrics or like heavy training, but I was doing some more stuff like RPR and the best I could of, of my own version of square one from things that I kind of learned. So I would just lay out in the outfield and I would check my range of motion and then I would challenge different things and figure out essentially what what got me more aligned. 3:12 And I would do that before every game. I would just lay out in center field and just run through checks as I just lied on my back checking my range of motion. 3:20 Two Weeks of Isometrics: Pain Gone, Strength Gained And then once the season ended, I hadn't lifted heavy all season. Last time we did it like a Max deadlift. I don't remember, I don't even remember the numbers anymore. It's been so long. But basically during the winter we did a Max deadlift and then I want to say it was like, I remember I was even in a little bit of pain. 3:41 So I feel like it might have been somewhere between 385 to 4:15. Just something around there, just a trap bar deadlift. And after the season ended, I went into two weeks of just straight isometrics. And it wasn't like the Magic 8 or anything. 3:58 It was honestly odd things like it was just you're going to hold a hip flexion and something with extension, something with internal rotation, something external rotation and then something with like wrists and feet. And then after the two weeks I was feeling good, had zero pain. And then I deadlifted 515 trap bar deadlift and I was like, I didn't lift at all during the season. 4:20 I did these isometrics for two weeks. Like clearly my body was so boundly tight, which makes sense with all the back pain and the, the, you know, the strains that I was dealing with and random patello tendinopathy and like, just like fascia was just ridiculously tight. 4:39 So for me, holding long duration isometrics and creating this strength and length had this like massive boost on my system that for, for the benefit for me. And so that was when I really woke up and I was like, whoa, you know, like holding something for 5 minutes, creating strength and length. 4:59 Like there's clearly something there because I'm no longer in pain. And it only took two weeks and I just like PR somewhere between 50 to 100 lbs of something that I haven't even done. So it was a pretty good eye opening experience. 5:14 Adapting Coaching: Finding the Athlete's Weakest Link And then basically from there, I like just continue to go down the rabbit hole and, and I, I was going to go get my master's in, in sports bio mechanics. I was very close to doing that and then decide to take a job being like a sports performance coach at a baseball facility overseeing high school baseball players and at that time had a lot of great ideas. 5:43 And you know, I was going to mix something like Tri Phasic with Conjugant West Side. Like it was just beautifully planned out. Every time they come in, they're going to lift heavy. It's going to be from different ranges, it's going to be different eccentrics. 5:59 They're going to run through all these different systems. We're going to like literally hit all different like links like ATG style. Like I was like, I'm, I'm combining all the systems together and it's going to be awesome. And then day one first round of athletes come through and I'm like, OK, you know, let's get ready to lift. 6:18 And they're like, well, we already lifted. And I'm like, what do you mean? And they're like, well, today at school we maxed a bench, we maxed deadlift Max, one Rep Max, squatted, and we ran a mile. And I was like, OK, all right, so we're not going to be lifting. 6:38 So I guess we're going to be doing isometrics. And basically I just started looking out of, OK, what are they not getting in school? What is the weakest link essentially? And whatever the weakest link is, whether it's your calf, your hamstring, your quad, your bicep, we just drill that over and over again until that no longer became the weakest link. 6:59 Because what I found out, it wasn't just like, hey, this is the start of the school year. We're going to deadlift and get your test mark or, you know, your test numbers. It was like, no, we have lifting, you know, either three or four days a week. And every time we lift, we pretty much do A1 Rep Max of some sort of lift. 7:16 So it was pretty much pointless to have them do that and then for me to have them kind of lift heavy. So it really just turned into what are the things that they're not getting? And then how can I, I benefit from that? And then what I also found is ended up ordering, ironically, didn't know it at the time, but I ordered a table and the table I ordered off Amazon, it's like 300 bucks. 7:42 Now that same table, I think it's like 6 or 700 bucks on Amazon, but it was a chiropractic table and I didn't know anything about chiropractors, didn't know what chiropractic was because I've only been to physical therapist. And when you go to physical therapy, they just told me, you know, don't ever go to a chiropractor. 7:58 So I was just like, yeah, you know, like that doesn't make sense. Like why would you move joints? Like it's the muscles that hurt and move everything. So, you know, just focus on the muscles like, you know. And so anyway, I bought a table because I had so many people, they're injured and I'm, you know, going back and looking at my experiences of either RPR or looking at my experiences with a little bit of square 1 and just, you know, self application and learning through myself. 8:24 And I'm like, OK, what can I do to help these guys out because they're also in pain. So obviously whatever, you know, state they're in, they can't meet the physical demands of their school lifts, their school practices, all the education that they have to acquire and then coming to the facility for roughly about 3 hours and staying and not, you know, not getting any sort of sleep. 8:49 So it's like accumulation of all this stuff they're not handling. So how can I essentially try and get them to have a bigger bowl is the way that I looked at it through the lens? How can I make their bowl bigger so that we can just add more stuff and they can handle more? And so then I'm just doing different things. 9:05 Combining Brain-Body Awareness with Laser Systems And then that's when I got exposed to Doctor Mark Wetzel and I started learning a little bit more about Doctor Jay through him and the neuro target system and then got connected with Doctor Jay and called him, visited to him and just started learning stuff through there. And, and then I started really combining a lot of brain body awareness. 9:25 So a lot of the lasers, so motion guidance system where I literally redneck rig it, where I'd be taking like tape or like a wristband. Like, I wasn't even buying their their headgear stuff, which would have been so much easier, but, you know, I'm just taking stuff and taping it in places and then having clients run through. 9:45 And I would build the board. And then I started looking at eye movements. And so yeah, I just figured out where either an eye movement broke down where they couldn't contract and we would just essentially move the laser over that point and recreate brain body awareness. 10:02 And once that was mapped out, pain was gone. Like, I had a guy come in, you know, hamstring strain. I've heard stories of Doctor J, you know, he's got those articles working with, was it France or Germany? I think France where he reduced their hamstring strain down to 14 days. 10:22 Speaker 1 Oh, the Italian. The Italian team, the Fiorentina. Yeah, that pro soccer team. Yep. 10:28 Speaker 3 And I had a case like that just simply by learning to disassociate his ankle from his rest of his leg. And we use lasers to do that because every time he moved his foot in and out for internal and external rotation to say his whole leg would move. 10:45 And all we did is we just used the lasers. 10:47 Speaker 2 To keep it in the. 10:48 Speaker 1 Knee stationary you're now you're going to move your ankle without moving the. 10:52 Speaker 3 Exactly. So I just put one laser on his knee and I put one laser on the foot, and the laser on the knee had to stay within the circle. 11:00 Speaker 2 Stay. 11:01 Speaker 3 Laser had to go along a track and he was back within 14 days just by doing that and sprinted had no problems. So and then we had another guy with like bicep tendonitis that was literally gone in like a day. 11:17 You know, we had people pulling down like in baseball world to pull down. Usually people can only handle like 4 to 7 reps because of running as fast as you can and then throwing into a target is is extraneous. Like it, it hurts people's elbows, but it's like kind of like a Max testing day. 11:34 But we would have guys go and throw 20 to 40 Max adilo throws of running and gunning with 0 elbow issues just simply by recreating the brain mapping awareness. And I was pretty strict. And there's other videos that we've I've even shown to you where it's like, you know, we we had guys not even throw all the way up weeks. 11:55 Like even some guys weren't even throwing one week before the season started because they didn't have scalp control. And so is a rule like, hey, throw, you have to be able to lift your arm off of the ground without your upper track being the dominant mover. And when people did that too, the same thing, like as soon as they cleaned up their scalp movements, we focused on the weakest link, like they were healthy. 12:17 Like guys are PR ING all throughout the season without even throwing all winter, which is just extremely unheard of and doesn't make any sort of sense. I remember we got pretty attacked on on X or Twitter at the time before it switched over to X. And just like, you know, you're not having people throw, like you're obviously going to get everybody injured. 12:36 And it's like these guys were healthy all season and you know, they were PR and just, and if they didn't PR, they were still throwing just as hard as they did before. They like before they were shut down essentially. 12:50 Focusing on the 'One Thing' for Global Change So my mind just got like focused on essentially just being really, really simple. And it's like, what is the area that you cannot control? What is the area that you don't have tone? What is the area that you're weak? 13:06 And we're literally going to hit that one muscle or one group or one action over and over again, like 200 * 10,000 * 100,000 times. It doesn't matter. We're going to hit it over and over again until it sticks and that's all we focus on. 13:21 And so we, I even got away from total body lifts or, you know, like doing this, like if, if you couldn't hold a Nordic at let's say 110 degree knee flexion without your glutes being able to contract, then then you hung out there for 30 minutes until you can contract. 13:43 And it seemed brutal. And it seems like, you know, military style to say, but all we were doing was just saying, hey, you can't, you know, your body, your brain has no awareness of how your muscles contract, how your joints move in this joint position. 13:58 And so we're going to hold this over and over again until this becomes second nature, like a walk in the park. And guys benefited from that so much. The guys are throwing like they had mentioned, the guys were fast. The guys were throwing hard PRS all around like it was just, we even kind of joked because then it became what we call PR culture because it seemed like there was APR almost every night, which is a whole different topic. 14:24 But it just, it was great to see that through that essentially being into thrown into the fire. I was forced to create things on the fly and in my mind I I essentially hit a Grand Slam because it just worked right from the get go and there was no looking back. 14:48 Host's Personal & Client Success with NRS Yeah, well, a lot of what you've said I can resonate with, like with the back pain. I remember when I had really, really bad back pain going and getting the McGill big three. You know, you remember those three ISO, the side planks, the dead bugs and the bird dogs and then trying to figure it out yourself, like doing the self alignment, just testing different things and and you know, if it works on you, then who's to say it can't work on somebody else? 15:13 And then trying it with as many people as you can. But it really sounds like that you've gained your knowledge from experience. Like you've actually, you know, we're not we're not having conversations about these things, we're doing them and then we're talking about it after, you know, you know, after we had the experience. 15:28 So I really applaud, you know, your ability to go and test something vehemently and then assess it after for its effectiveness. And I, you know, even Doctor Ji had asked him about the lasers and he he still uses that. And I think he got that idea from you. 15:44 Speaker 2 Which is no, no, I got that idea from him. 15:47 Speaker 1 Oh, you got that idea from him. 15:48 Speaker 2 Yeah. 15:49 Speaker 1 OK, I thought of I for some reason thought it was the other way around. But even with myself, you know, I had, I had the experience of having Achilles tendinopathy for months and months and months trying literally everything. Slater and I were using square one. 16:04 We were trying our PR. I'd hit up Jake Turra. He told me to do all these isometrics. I was doing these overcoming isometrics every day for months. The needle wasn't moving. The pain was still there. So you come to our gym and it was you, Brett Adams are doing a in service for Slater and his mentorship. 16:24 And when you guys are there, you do the brain balancing stuff with me and then you hook me up to the Volta and we find the positions that I was weakened or you know, the same thing that you're saying with the lasers. You did that with the Volta because the first thing we did was I bent my knee into flexion and then started to pump my foot in the planter endorse flexion. 16:46 And you found the exact range. You, you knew it immediately and I had to look back on this to remember, but you knew immediately the range of motion, whereas deficient. And you had me do I, I don't know if it was 200, you know, 152 hundred reps, but that was the first thing we did was just working through the range of motion where there was a sensory gap, there's a sensory gap there. 17:06 And using Volta to accelerate those results. And within two days, my Achilles pain was gone. It hasn't come back. I haven't done anything for it, just normal training. And I feel great. It hasn't come back at all. And then one of the other experiences that I had mentioned was my dad had really, really bad Vertigo. 17:29 And one thing that's unique about your NRS is that it can be used remotely. So I can take videos of somebody, send them to you, and then you can tell me what to do. So with my dad, he for those you don't know Vertigo, you'll stand up and immediately your vestibular system all out of whack. 17:48 You don't know where you are in space. And he was falling over when he would stand up. So you took a look at his posture, found that he had a left soft pyramidal weakness. And you found that the right supinator fast stretch or whatever it is in and across fast. 18:04 But what you didn't know is that I had tested that fast stretch with a bunch of muscle tests. And I found that it turned on a bunch of muscles in his body. And then you had you had us do an OPK tape to bring his head back to neutral. And those are the only two things that you gave me to do. 18:20 We did it every hour on the hour for the next about 6 hours. His symptoms went away and just like the Achilles tendinopathy never came back. So that's the moment when through everything that we had seen at IHT, all the great results we got, like with Max, his back pain going away in four days, let his team win the state championship with doctors telling him you're going to have to hang up the cleats, you're never going to play football again. 18:44 You blew that out of the water. We had many other athletes who came in, we did your stuff. It worked like a charm. Sent them back out and they were back within days, if not hours. So after those two experiences, personally, I decide to go all in and start testing your stuff. 19:02 And I'm finding that it just every everything you said about with your athletes in the gym, all the athletes that I had balanced out this past summer and this past year, you know, doing this on my own, you know, we've had athletes drop more than .06 off their fly, 10 athletes that are setting school records. 19:22 You know, 11 kid Kimani ran a .97, dropped all the way down to a .91. And then pictured by the name of Jared Bayless, who is big in the training community. He's after I balanced him out one, one hour and a half session and he's up 3 miles an hour on all of his pitches. 19:43 I'm finding the same thing that you are in that the athletes won't drop off. They just continuously when you take away the tone. This is the same thing Cal says about RPR. He uses the intraset RPR to decrease the tone of the muscles. The athletes are able to work out for longer. 20:00 But what I found is that the NRS does the same thing. It's you're using the fast stretches instead of the RPR points to take care of the tone. And when you decrease the tone, they're able to go for longer. They PR, they have less pain, they train longer. 20:15 It's it's absolutely incredible how effective and, and how predictable it is when you find the one thing that fixes everything. 20:22 Shifting from Orthopedic to Neurological Models And I remember where where I was when I realized this, it was Jared Slater who were working with an athlete named Alex. And Alex plays football overseas. And so he gets Alex on the table. All these muscles are off. And he's like, you know, one thing that Doctor Burton told me was that if we hold one ISO in the right area, it should turn on all these muscles. 20:41 And I'm like, OK, let's try. So we're going through his body. We find that a, that a, that a hamstring ISO turns on everything around the, around the body. And that's, that's when I realized that what you're, what you, what you have is making such a global impact on these athletes. 21:00 When you find that one thing that, like you said, they're weekend and that one thing is going to fix everything. It's going to fix the neuro tests, it's going to fix the functional tests, it's going to fix the muscle tests. It's going to make the movement feel more comfortable. It's supercharges their progress. So whether it's the strength coach listening to this or a rehab professional listening to this, I think everybody can learn something from what you're about to talk about here. 21:23 But why is balance so important? Why do you focus on balance? Why does Doctor J focus on balance? Why is it all I'm talking about now? And why does it connect every every single one of these neural systems together? Why is balance so important from your perspective? 21:39 Speaker 3 Yeah, I think the the first thing we have to do is recognize that there's a shift happening and when people first start, there's nothing but orthopedic models. And so in the strength world or in the chiropractic world, because now I'm a chiropractor, it's like, if it doesn't move, you'll whack it. 22:01 If it's weak, you strengthen it. And if it's shortened, you lengthen it. And so that is a very basic orthopedic model and it's very, it doesn't give you the complete picture because it never asks, well, why is it tight in the 1st place? 22:18 Why won't, why is there a subluxation in the 1st place? Why is the joints oriented this way to start with? You know, why is the muscle short? Like it doesn't go through those kinds of things because and that's where the shift starts happening and taking it out of like an orthopaedic model and taking it into neurology. 22:40 Why Asymmetry is Neurological Chaos, Not Normal Now, while that's great, there's still a problem is that people are taking neurology and treating it like orthopaedic. And so like, take the eye. 22:52 Speaker 2 Movements, for example, like CJ Straw. Yeah. 22:56 Speaker 3 So if you take eye movements and you just let's say, OK, those are the we're going to work out our eye movements, you're still looking at it of like, OK, well, what are these weak here? So I'm going to strengthen it. Are these maybe long? So I'm going to, you know, shorten it. 23:13 Is it, you know, don't have the the control or is it not moving well? So I'm going. 23:18 Speaker 2 To try and force it to move. 23:19 Speaker 3 You know, with a rapid like head movement or something. And so it's still that orthopedic model where they're going like a shotgun approach of look, let's just go around and just try and, you know, just dynamic move, you know, dynamic warm up and just trying to activate everything. 23:35 And so I think the the first thing we have to understand is, is that it's no longer the orthopedic model. It's a neurology model, but it's also asking the question not just do these cool eye movements or head turns, but actually like what is driving the systems. 23:49 Speaker 2 That these are are making up. 23:51 Speaker 3 And the other. 23:52 Speaker 2 Biggest feedback that I get is, well, there's always going to be a little bit of asymmetry because your liver is in this position, the organ weight is off this, the shoulders are. 24:02 Speaker 3 Always going to be imbalanced. And for me, those people who are stating that live in the orthopedic model, they don't live in their neurology model. And so they're going to say, hey, one shoulder hiked a little bit higher or slightly internally rotated than the other is perfectly fine. 24:18 Something that has a little bit more internal rotation than external is going to be perfectly fine because that's normal. It's normal to have a little bit of asymmetry. And they'll even quote studies and say, hey, we found asymmetry between counter movement jumps. We found asymmetry amongst X and it didn't change performance, it didn't change outcome. 24:37 So. 24:38 Speaker 2 Therefore. 24:39 Speaker 3 It's it's not a, it's not a concern. 24:43 Speaker 2 And that's what I that's what I'll hear on the flip side of that though, if you know anything about. 24:50 Speaker 3 Neurology. That's chaos. Because what you don't, what you aren't seeing is that how it's changing the sensory system. And so like we'll get into the whole PMRF, the Ponto medullary particular formation. And one of its goals is pain tolerance. 25:09 And if you have a sign, if you have a PMRF on one side, you're going to have an under active cortex which is going to also control. 25:17 Speaker 2 A lot of your knee muscles, it could be associated with hip. Like weak hip flexors, it could be associated with weak dorsiflexors. 25:26 Speaker 3 And you'll know this by like if you, if you check, like when we mentioned with sensor is like with pinwheel. So it's like looking in between left diverse right and one side feels sharper than the other. Well, then that's a good. That's one indication that, hey, you might be more injured or more likely to experience pain on this side of your body. 25:44 Speaker 2 Because it's more sensitive to pain. 25:47 Speaker 1 So go back there. 25:49 Connecting Unilateral Injuries to Specific Brain Regions I I have a lot of athletes and people that come see me and they say, hey, I only have injuries on this side of my body. How does that relate to what you're talking about here? 25:58 Speaker 3 Well. 25:59 Speaker 2 That essentially just relates with the postural tone what's getting the inhibition. So the with the cortex being like take the PMRF for being an example, when the cortex is under active, it's going to be under active to the same side Puma for same side brainstem region which is going to create a very specific posture and this is the posture. 26:20 Speaker 3 What every with people in the orthopedic. 26:22 Speaker 2 Model say, hey, that asymmetry is OK to have a little bit of shoulder that rounded forward, one arm slightly internally rotated and then the other in our world, in neurology world, that's like I mentioned, that's the chaos because now you know, OK, hey, the flexors, the flexors on the anterior side or more tonus, which means that there's less tone on the backside and then in the lower half, the reverse. 26:48 So now the hamstring or sorry, the, yeah, the quads are going to be overly tightened and then the hip, their hamstrings are going to be weak. And so, and you can even break that down into internal external rotation. So it's like, OK, well, now if you have a baseball pitcher and he's got a primato weakness on his throwing arm, that means none of his decelerator muscles are working, which means that they're never going to be able to activate the way that they need to. 27:13 Taking somebody for, you know, soccer sports that have high, you know, high amounts of ACL tears, now you're looking at hypertonic quads on one side with inhibited hamstrings on one side. And we all have, there's an imbalance there. 27:29 And that's what usually creates the tear is that the quads excessively pull, the hamstrings can't handle the counterbalance, and then you get the slippage and then you get the tear. And so the whole thing of why this is important or even just your question of like, you know, I'm having injuries all on one side. 27:47 It's just, it's not a, you know, your abductors tight, the quads tight. It's no, there's a whole region of your brain that is not receiving the nutrients that it needs for some reason. And is it a neurological problem? Is it a vascular problem? Maybe we don't even need to know, but we just need to figure out what is going to actually fix and resolve the balance. 28:09 And you know, you can go through my little bit of Instagram that I have and all of your experience that you have too. And you can get people symmetrical left verse right now. It doesn't mean that when they go and Sprint, you know, they're still they're still going to be fascial and tone difference like they're still might bias and internal rotation on one side and external rotation on the other side. 28:33 And I think that's normal. I think a little bit of that is more congenital based, especially because like they teach that this stuff might not be congenital. But like when I'm adjusting infants, even right out of the the womb, it's like they're almost presenting with an inherited under active cerebellum on one side or a PMRF on one side that's not getting the tone that it needs. 28:58 Speaker 1 Yep, I've seen brain presentation as pops, so yeah that that tracks. And kids and their parents work on them. 29:05 Speaker 2 Yeah, sometimes it's not. 29:07 Speaker 1 But I I've seen it. 29:10 Speaker 2 I'm often on repeat when parents ask me where is my child tight and my most of my responses are exactly where you are so. 29:20 Testable Balance: Debunking the Asymmetry Superpower Cham, transgenerational epigenetics say it's just makes perfect sense to me now what people, what people need to realize is what you're saying is testable. So you see somebody with an internally rotated arm, you have them do fast stretches on those flexors, check what it does in the entire body because that fast stretch might change something in the in the knee. 29:44 You don't know because if my opposite elbow is connected to my opposite knee, then a fast stretch up here can change something down there, right. So what what people and and I get the pushback too of well, you know this person's asymmetry is their superpower. This this person's asymmetry is the reason why they're such a great athlete. 30:04 Well, the same reason that makes them great is the same reason why they break down all the time. So I mean, are you seeing this this with athletes like, hey, this athlete might be a great athlete, but they're not in balance. So they keep having knee pain, they keep having shoulder issues, they keep having back pain. 30:21 It keeps coming back over and over again. We keep trying to address, you know, the back pain with the McGill big three or with the shoulder pain. You know, we keep doing impulses. We're, we're keep, we're going to continue doing graded exposure, all of these things that are taught at every level, no matter if you're an undergrad exercise science or you're post grad doing your PT work, everybody's being taught the same thing. 30:42 So to the people that say symmetries are normal, you're, you're sitting here saying that, you know, if, if it's a neural thing, it could be causing issues for this person. 30:57 Training for Efficiency, Not Just Resiliency No, absolutely, because everybody and I mentioned earlier what every like trying to make the biggest bull possible. And so even when you like you can strengthen somebody in a certain way, that's still going to build tissue resiliency. 31:13 It's not like saying, hey, if you don't do it in this neural pattern, you're not going to get somebody stronger or faster. It's just that, right? Like you. 31:19 Speaker 1 Did the Isos, you did those general Isos and it and it did wonders. 31:23 Speaker 2 For you, so it's. 31:23 Speaker 1 Not to say that strengthening is bad. We still need to strengthen, we still need to get strong. We still need to train hard. 31:30 Speaker 2 Correct. And, and, and where I'm getting it at is that, you know, you're essentially creating a bigger bowl for somebody to handle already what their compensation is. But at some point that bowl is going to over, it's going to overspill. 31:46 And for some people that's, you know, when they, you know, in the NFL, when they're playing professionally, some people that's when they're in college. Some people it's, they never get past high school, you know, so everybody has a little bit of different story of how much their body could actually handle. 32:02 And so like good strength training is going to get somebody really, really far. But the problem is though, is that it's still not you're, as I always mentioned, you're becoming more efficient at being inefficient rather than being efficient at being efficient. 32:18 And so you just have to ask yourself, what changes are you actually making? What compensations are you actually making? And you know, and it makes sense why strength and length type based training works really well because you are putting tissue on a stretch and you're loading it and then you're also loading it like heavier to say. 32:42 So you're starting to get more muscle spindle activation within length, which already has a disadvantage back to the brain because the more that a tissue is in length, the less muscle spindle activity and the greater the load on is on the tendon ligaments. And so, and that's when we say fast stretch, it's the fast stretch literally means like in my head, I took it, OK, I said, OK, if I'm going to make a chiropractic adjustment on somebody, but I can't make a chiropractic adjustment, how am I going to make that happen? 33:09 And so that's where I started really solidifying. What are these fast stretches going to look like? How do I want somebody to hold a knife? So how do I want somebody to do a rack lift off? How do I want somebody to do a, an eccentric? How do I want somebody to do an ATG style, you know, lunge? And those in my head, I'm saying, OK, how, how can I use their basically their own movement to create the, the like the chiropractic change that I'm looking for. 33:36 And so that's kind of how that was birthed. And so it's like, OK, now when I'm doing a box jump, I know that if I'm doing a concentric jump, I want a fast stretch of the hamstring. So they're only going to be jumping up on one leg. And then I want a fast stretch on the quad so that they're going to be doing on the other leg and altitude drop in the deepest lowest position to create a fast stretch more on the quads. 33:59 And so you're starting to put into perspective of, OK, am I creating like basically, how can I reset tone with movements that we already do in the gym? And what does that look like? What movement's going to be fast? What movement's going to be slow? What movement's going to be eccentric concentric? 34:15 What movement's going to be left first, right. And that was, you know, even going back, but it's like I, I still had tons of loopholes in my training system back when I was at that facility because I was still spending way too much time with one client. 34:33 Developing a Scalable Neuro Readiness System You know, I would be spending sometimes 45 minutes to the entire 60 minutes on one kid. Well, 16 between between 16 to 31 other athletes were being severely neglected. And at least I shouldn't say severely neglected. It's just there's no accountability. 34:50 And so that was a problem. And so it's like, how can I develop a system that's going to be already using a coach's own lifting program with minor tweaks? And how can we just change that to then balance out the brain? Because the other thing too. 35:06 Oh, go ahead. 35:08 Speaker 1 So I think that what you're what you're speaking to right now is all all strength coaches that are listening to this need to need to put their get get you on their radar here, because when I'm talking to Ryan Paul and he's he's saying and now Ryan Paul's begging at Jay Schroeder. Are you familiar with Ryan? 35:23 Do you know he does Jay's He's. 35:26 Speaker 2 The extreme. 35:27 Speaker 1 Isos and then he he likes the Isos, altitudes, rebounds. 35:31 Speaker 2 I've never talked to him, but you mentioned him, he's out in what's Vancouver or something. 35:35 Speaker 1 Vancouver, WA yeah. So he, he trained with Jay for a period of time and he does all of that same stuff, uses the ARP wave. And so I'm having this conversation with him, right. And we're talking about Doctor Jay, we're talking about neuro target. And he's like, you know, Zach, I don't have time to put somebody on the table for this amount of time. 35:52 I either have to hire a chiropractor or I have to outsource this table skills to somebody else because I don't have the time to do this. I'm running a business. I'm trying to coach all these kids at once. And you should see him like he's a field general in there, like he's, you know, calling everything out like classic strength coach. 36:08 Been doing it forever, right? But the way he does it and the way the way we were talking about it is he's like, I need to find a neural thing that to add here. And we were talking about square one. I'm a big advocate for square one, But where square one works the best is when you're one-on-one for that 45 for that hour, man, can you get a lot done in an hour using square one? 36:28 But he's saying that I feel like you need to take it to 5 minutes or you need to take it to a longer duration. We had the discussion about 5 minutes if you actually need to do it or not. But what he's saying is I want to find that one ISO where they're the weakest, and I want to hold that for a long time, or the way square one finds the ISO I like, but now we need to hold that for a longer duration. 36:50 And that's just my intuition. And when he said that, I was like, man, you and Doctor Burton would really get along because I was having the same problem where I'm here trying to work with a room of 30 athletes, 30 high school football players, and I'm only able to hand balance out one of them at a time using neuro target or square 1. 37:09 But now with the NRS, I can balance them hands free and we can do 10/20/30 people at once and everybody's holding their isometric or doing their fast stretch or doing their one pursuit or their one saccade. The one thing that fixes everything. 37:24 So I feel like the NRS, you know, you developed it out of necessity with its ability to be remote, the ability to scale it up as high as it needs to go it for as many people as it needs to be done with. 37:38 NRS: Simplifying Assessment Beyond Muscle Testing So, you know, when you were creating the NRS, did you have these things in mind of I don't need to muscle test. The muscle testing has a confirmation of what I'm doing. But these neuro tests, it correlates with everything. Like if it passes all the neuro tests, it's probably going to make them feel better. 37:53 It's probably going to turn on all the muscles. How did you land on, you know, simplifying all of these principles down to just a few neuro tests? And did you mean to have this be so scalable? Because I do think that when I talk to coaches, this this is the biggest bang for buck in terms of how are we going to get all these guys in balance and how do I not spend that hour with one person and neglect these other 16 or how many people? 38:22 How'd you get it to this point? Rick can scale this high. Yeah. What were you thinking? 38:26 Speaker 2 About well, I was thinking that I've always wanted to be a strength coach and strength coaches always tell me that they, you know, the muscle testing, like they don't know how to muscle test. You know, they went to a neuro course, they're doing muscle testing. And it's like I, I like they like, you know, even Doctor J will say this and I, he told it to me too. 38:47 It's like muscle testing takes like five years to learn. 38:50 Speaker 1 Has told me the same thing. 38:52 Speaker 2 Even if you think you're good after three months, six months, yeah, you're not Like it's true. 38:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, I remember Slater and I were looking at each other like, hey, what's this guy like? You told that to us. We're like, what's this guy talking about? You don't need three years. Five years now I see it. 39:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I'm like 8 years in and I'm still learning new things even 8 years out. And it's all about the repetition and the field, the reps and learning, you know, even differences between what a hypertonic muscle feels like, what a, an inhibited muscle feels like, you know, challenging different joint angles and knowing all, you know, potentially 600 muscles that you would test. 39:32 But then also knowing that those tests, all those rules can also break too, because you, you need a muscle and to basically be strong in any joint range of motion. So there's a lot of nuance to it, but I was thinking about that as just I'm like, I can't have a system that is solely based on muscle testing. 39:55 So that's out. And then I was like, OK, I also can't have this system be where it's here. Do these ten different neuro motions? And you'll get the change because the other feedback I was getting from strength coaches, it's just like, well, I don't know when to train the peripheral vision. 40:15 I don't know when to saccade. I don't know when to look up. I don't know when to look like they're just running through the 10 different things. And they're like, I don't know when to implement these into my strength program. Like I don't want to do 30 minutes of saccades when I feel like they really need to be doing 30 minutes of lifting actually heavy. 40:35 So the other thing was like, OK, well, we're not going to get lost into the weeds of we're going to do these ten different things. And I see this all the time in my chiropractic office too. It's like somebody will come to me. Usually they've seen a neuroophthalmologist, it's a pediatric case, and they got a lazy eye. 40:51 And they'll come to me and they'll be like, OK, here's the list of the 15 to 20 exercises that my neuroophthalmologist is having me do. And I'll look at them, and I'll look at the exam, and I'll go, OK, you're going to cut 19 of these and you're going to keep this one thing and this is all you're going to do. 41:06 And then they come back literally a week later and it's like, yeah, his eye is tracking better. It's not as lazy anymore. 41:13 Speaker 1 And that and that one thing was the thing that changed the most things, right? 41:17 Speaker 2 Correct, correct. 41:19 Speaker 1 Yeah, so that's how you find one thing. It's the one thing that changes everything. 41:23 The Power of One Input for Global Neurological Change Yeah, and sometimes it's the the compound, the compounding creates the chaos as well. And that's what people don't realize. It's it's also, you see it in the medication world too, where they'll take they'll they'll test one medication by itself and say, Hey, this was really strong. 41:42 And then they won't test to figure out, well, what happens if you add in the three other tests and the four other tests and can your body handle it all at once? And sometimes it's a no, like it's just too much for the system. And also to talk about compliance. How am I going to get a, a four year old to do 20 exercises? 42:00 You're not so, but if I can say hey mom, take his arm and just stretch it like this every 60 minutes, that's very, very easy to do and it creates a change. You know, even I had a couple weeks ago working with this 6 year old with cerebral palsy she had with OBK tape. 42:20 She had 0 saccade activity. So frontal cortex completely not work and she has zero arm swing Go through this. This is even strength athletes. I go through and I go, OK, I'm seeing this premital weakness or I'm seeing this neural pattern. So let's just have her go into hip flexion on the left hand side. 42:38 She does some hip flexion reps She just, all she's doing is just picking up her leg. Soon as she starts picking up her leg and then I go back and test arms start swinging, the saccades start coming back. She starts sleeping at night and and then, you know, once that one thing doesn't work, then it came into butt kicks. 42:55 But it's literally just one thing. And that's what I also was like, OK, that's what I need the neuro readiness system to be is how can we find the one thing as quickly as possible? What is the one weakest link in this case? What is the one thing that's going to balance the brain out the quickest and have the most global change? 43:14 And then once it has the most global change, it's like it's so much of A like a healthy stimulus to the system that it essentially flips over. So it's like the whole David Gray idea, or maybe it was the foot guy, Gary Ward, who is like 1 motion can get you in pain and what that which means that one motion can get you out of pain. 43:33 And that always stuck with me because it's the same thing in the neurology world. One input can put you in pain, one input can put you out if it's truly a neurological issue, you know, there's not actually a tissue damage. So I've always looked at that as like, what is the one input I can give that's going to try and resolve everything? 43:51 And that's, you know, that's essentially what I'm going hungry. And after you, you kind of saw it out. And when we were in Franklin, it's like, OK, you know, this woman with her hereditary spastic paraplegia has hyper, she has hyper reflexes. 44:07 I'm like, OK, well, right now this is the most glaring thing in front of me. It's just how hyper these reflexes are. So I'm just going to go, what is the one thing I can do just to calm these down? And we found stuff. 44:23 And so we just honed in on that one thing over and over and over again. Now her reflexes are almost like you could almost grade them normal. And so now we're working on totally different areas of her brain. 44:32 Empowering Coaches with Observation-Based NRS And so taking this to the strength world, though, it's like you don't have to know how to muscle test. You don't know how to have the eye movements. All you have to do is just know how to observe, and as long as you know how to observe, train. 44:43 Speaker 1 Your. 44:43 Speaker 2 Eyes. Yeah, train your eyes in the sense of not doing eye exercises, but training your eyes to figure out, OK, I see left shoulder, you know, internally rotated. I see more knuckles on the left hand side than I do the right hand side. 44:55 Speaker 1 This arm isn't swinging when he's walking to his next exercise. 44:58 Speaker 2 Exactly. So now because of that presentation, I automatically know that he's going to be hypertonic and the flexors on that side and that the extensors are going to be weak. And then on the lower half, I already know that his internal rotators are going to be weak and his external rotators are going to be hypertonic. 45:16 And so as soon as you see that posture, and that's why we say you can assess in under 60 seconds to start training, you see that posture and literally you just hand them a pre made workout that's focused on that side. And then either you can check them after every exercise if you want to, or you can check them at the end of the workout. 45:32 And at the end of the workout you look at them and say, did that create a change? Yes or no? If it was, yes, great, keep that same stimulus until they walk in the door the next day, whether it's two days out, three days out and they're balanced out. Once they're balanced out, go to the normal training program. 45:48 If they come back to you and one side is still turned in, then you know, hey, we need another stimulus, so we're going to run that work out again. If they come back a third time, then you know, OK, hey, maybe I need to dive in a little bit deeper and it's not crazy intense. All you're doing now is figuring out is it the upper body stimulus they need or the lower body stimulus they need. 46:08 And because sometimes the upper body can be too too stressful and sometimes the lower body can be not enough stimulus. So then all at that point you just give them their upper body exercises instead of the lower and then usually that resolves things. 46:20 NRS in Practice: Pain Resolution & Team Collaboration When I was doing virtual, I never had people like in pain really longer than two weeks. So basically I had this real thumb when I was doing virtual. If you were in pain for longer than two weeks, most of the time you had to get an MRI or X-ray because something was not right. 46:37 And every time that's happened, there's always been a tear. And not to say that you're going to be completely healed and, and, and pain free in two weeks. But what I did see though, is that your pain significantly dropped and it was less likely for your pain to be as reactive or present. 46:54 So like, even if it was still there, it was way less, you know, intense, it was a lot more manageable. You still had range of motion, the strength was still better. And there's things that we could resolve there, but it was like if there was no change that happened, then usually it was like very obvious. 47:11 This is a structural thing we need to refer out. We need to figure like we need to get some more imaging to figure out what's going on. So in this way that string coaches, athletic trainers, PTS, like professional collegiate settings can all work together because if everybody knows somebody's resting posture or what muscle like what their natural, you know, neuro readiness screening looks like, then everybody can be on the same page. 47:37 And now when they go and do their rehab work, the athletic trainer knows that I need make sure I don't stretch these muscles or I make sure that I don't, you know, do you know, strengthen these ones because it's going to put them in an imbalance. And so it's like if everybody, the strength coach, the athletic trainer can communicate, the physical therapist know how to, because depending on how you needle kind of, you know, get somebody imbalanced out of balance, how you cup, how you stretch, how you strengthen, how you even do the Volta or direct current work, all that stuff can either put somebody in further balance or further imbalance. 48:11 And so if you have somebody like a whole team that can work as a unit, that's very powerful, especially too when I talk about the concussion, if you know that somebody's natural posture is right side, that's the problem. And you know, they take a hit on the field and all of a sudden it's their left side that's the problem. 48:28 It's like, whoa, immediate, immediate red flag. You gotta pull them out because either a concussion happened or there's something in their system that is like very close to being seriously injured. And so the whole idea of like, you can't prevent injuries, it's like, well, honestly, there's there's things that you can start, you know, maybe you can't say this specific player is going to get injured, but it's like, hey, this system is pretty powerful and, and at least detecting when hey, an injury might be happening or when pain, you know, and. 48:59 How Balance Transforms Athletic Performance & Recovery Like people, people say, you know you can't prevent injuries, but then here you go with Doctor J 25 years ago, 28 injuries per thousand hours played. He comes in, everybody learns these same hands on principles where you're teaching the hands off and he, you know, the injury rate goes down to 4 injuries per thousand hours played and it stays there the entire time he's there. 49:23 So it was either a coincidence that the injury rate dropped by 7 times when he got there, or it was what he was doing with neuro target and these, these these brain balancing principles that you're, that you're talking about. But not only is this your experience, this is also Slater and I's experience. 49:40 And now that I'm doing my own thing, athletes, you know, they're they're recovering faster from injuries, They're PR ING more often by by larger amounts. They're staying in balance for longer. So I checked them less frequently. 49:57 I have to do less things to keep them on. They're acute pain is going away quicker and the instance that the chronic pain comes back is is dropping to almost none. So not only are the athletes more efficient at being efficient, but they're also more efficient at recovery. 50:14 They heal faster, they train, they had they, they adapt to training quicker. So, you know, I don't, I don't really care what your job title is. If you can get this in your doors and everybody on board, I am 100% confident it's going to move the needle. 50:29 Real-World NRS: Balancing a Division One Quarterback So I was with a Division One school and they had, I was, I was having this conversation that we're having now with their entire strength, almost their entire strength and rehab staff, Everybody's in there. It's about maybe 10 people that are watching. 50:45 So the starting quarterback is in the room and one of my friends goes, hey, let's get this guy over here and let's take a look at him. So I get him over. He's describing his symptoms. And The funny thing about how you've taught me brain balancing is that based on the first two or three questions that I have, I can already figure out where somebody's having problems in their brain. 51:07 Because if you have injuries on this side of your body only, then it's probably this area of your brain. If you have chronic back pain and bilateral hamstring tightness, I know it's gonna be this area of your brain. And So what happens is I do the four cerebellum tests he's negative on or he's positive on all of them to the right side. 51:25 So I'm like, OK, a Figure 8 on one of these joints on the right side is gonna clear up all these neuro tests and all the muscle tests. So we find that a Figure 8 on his shoulder, his humerus clears up all the neuro tests and it looks the best after doing that motion. 51:42 So then I get them on the table and I test all the muscles that are off when this particular area of the brain cerebellum is under active, test all those muscles, they're all weak. He does the Figure 8 with his shoulder. All the muscles turn on. He's like, holy shit, dude, that's crazy. And I'm like, I know, right. 51:58 And all the strength staff behind me is like, yeah, well, I, we saw all the same stuff. You saw this thumb came lower, this finger missed the nose. He swayed to the right. So I, I think it seems very daunting at first, which is what I thought like, oh great, another neuro system. 52:15 Here we go, like time to learn something that I'm never going to use. And now it's seeming like all I do because it's so efficient. So any strength coaches that are listening to this, I think you just have to dive in because it is easier. Muscle testing is way harder than the neuro tests. 52:32 Like the neuro test, you can get an eye for it within your first three people. Like I remember I was with Ryan Paul and I was like, so Ryan, which arms turned in more? OK, which, which side has the reduced finger tapping? OK, when he walks, which arm doesn't swing as much? OK, we're 3 for three on this side. 52:48 Well, Doctor Burton tells me that these muscles are going to be off. Get them on the table. Boom, boom, boom. Everything tracks. And you might need one of these fast stretches. SO1 fast stretch for the bicep. All the muscles are on. All the neural tests pass. I'm like, there you go. That's your homework. So how how quick and efficiently it is, I think it flies under the radar for coaches that see it and don't have the perspective of the muscle testing or, you know, have seen 100 reps They they kind of wash it off as well. 53:18 You know, the only reason why his hand turned out is because he just focused on that arm. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, I don't know if you realize what is actually happening here. Like we're changing the brain. We're trying, we're trying to do something to specifically address the area of the brain that's under active and bring that area of the brain up so. 53:39 Why Neurological Exams Are Unfalsifiable and Objective Well, the nice thing. Why so? 53:41 Speaker 1 One thing that I did want to talk to you about, sorry, did you have some? 53:45 Speaker 2 I was just gonna say you can't fake a neuro exam. Like you can't fake a reflex, You can't fake how an eye tracks. You can't fake somebody's finger tapping. Really. I get, you know, somebody could fake it, but it's like, why? 54:00 Why would you? You know, it's it. What I'm getting at is these. 54:03 Speaker 1 Unless they were trying to, why would you know they're not gonna? 54:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, these, when you do neuro tests, they're not things that you can just fake. And so that's the nice thing about neurology. It's like I have people, you know, sometimes parents will ask me that about like OPK tape. And it's like, OK, when you're doing this and the eyes are doing the reflex and they're succoting back and forth, they're like, well, you know, maybe just the second time you told them to like look at something. 54:30 So, you know, that's why it moved better. I'm like, this is a natural. Like this is a reflex, just like, you know, breathing in essentially a way or just like it's just something that's involuntary that happens. It's like this is not something that you can just fake. So that's the nice thing about this. And when people push back like that, it's like, OK, sure, the arm turned out because you fast stretched it and create an external rotation. 54:51 So naturally it's going to turn out OK, but then why on the contralateral side, you know, you go and do something and then the arm turns back in. It's like, well, why does that happen? You know, and you didn't even realize it. And so that's the nice thing about neurology and that's another thing I like too about seeing things. 55:10 It's not something you can fake. It's either it's either it worked or it didn't. It's no black and white. And the only grayish area that you get is, you know, I mentioned with like earlier with the neurology essentially being this like dynamic warm up where we're still training their like eye movements, like orthopedic model. 55:31 It's like, OK, I know that I forgot where I was going with this. Yeah. 55:41 Precision in Eye Movements for Brain Activation Well, general, general eye movements versus specific. I know you break it up, you teach it very. 55:46 Speaker 2 Simply where it's yes, thank you. So where I was getting was that, you know, you like, let's say somebody's doing like what CJ Straub was doing. He's going left and right and going up and down. He's doing these, yeah. 55:58 Speaker 1 I think Dan Thicker is talk talks about that on his Patreon. I don't have his Patreon, so I don't know. I don't know what he what he talks about about. 56:05 Speaker 2 It so that can improve somebody's range of motion or strength by 20 to 40%. But what is the, what is the last 60% improvement that you're looking for? And then that's where it gets more specific because now it's only a saccade off and to the right. 56:20 It's only a saccade up and diagonal to the right. Maybe it's only down on the left. And so when you do the general range, I've kind of mentioned this, it's like, OK, well, if I know a saccade on the horizontal plane gives me the most amount of range of motion, I need to dive further and say, OK, but what side? 56:35 Like what side? What if I? 56:37 Speaker 1 Only got two sides. You got left side, right side. 56:40 Speaker 2 Yeah. And if I'm going, if I'm going across to like that far, there's different brain activity that's engaging that's a little bit different than if I specify. And so you want to know more specifically what's going on. And so it's like, OK, if that the saccans in the horizontal plane made it 70% better, but only saccotting off to the right makes it 100% better. 57:02 Why do I keep going off to the left? And so it's just you get more focused with the neuro readiness system of being able to say, OK, I know exactly where I need to go and what brain region. Especially like if you understand what eye movements activate which brain region, then you know that you're only maybe doing something up and to the right, only down and to the left, only over to the right. 57:26 Because you know that that region or that direction is going to activate a very specific region of your brain. And you're not just doing a vote, a full general saccade pursuit and a full length pattern because there's going to be areas in there that are not going to be activating the right regions of your brain. 57:43 Speaker 1 It was very interesting to me. 57:46 Different Systems, Same Brain Weakness, Predictable Patterns I got like 10 questions now, but it was interesting to me when I went to the Mind Eye Institute, which is this place in Chicago where they basically do a special test called the Z Belt test. And if you imagine you're, you're sitting in this room, they get a little dice on a stick and you look at the dice on the stick and they and they and they hold it out in space somewhere and you close your eyes and then you try to touch the dice where it is in space. 58:12 And then they do another test where they have you close your eyes, they ring a bell and then you try to find the bell in space. And then they also do a bunch of eye tracking stuff, pursuits, saccade, like basically the same kind of stuff that you do trying to find the area of the brain that is weak or under active. 58:29 And and they, they create special glasses to to balance the brain. But what, what you had sent me after I showed you the, the picture of what they found is, you know, you said this is the same thing that I found when we were in Charleston and it ended up being the same brain weakness that Doctor J found. 58:49 So it's like all of these systems are intersecting and, and finding the same thing through different lens. Like the Mayan Eye Institute is going to give me glasses where Doctor J's going to get his hands on and, and use an adjustment to balance me out. Whereas you you're doing the specific eye direction. And for people that are like, oh, this is, this is just a bunch of hooey. 59:06 I have a great example of this. The other day I had an athlete named Joe who described his experience with Neural Reboot and the stuff we've been doing. We did 20 sessions with him. This guy's had more injuries than almost anybody I've ever worked on. He's a pro basketball player overseas and he's been through the ringer. 59:24 In high school, he had like 3 years where he didn't play basketball because he had injuries. He broke his femur, tore everything in his knee and his other knee, meniscus growth, plate surgery. So just terrible stuff happening. All the muscles on the right side of his body, like whenever he's out of balance, it's the right side. 59:40 I know, like I muscle test around there. All these muscles on the right are off and he's got this pursuit up into the left that turns everything on. So doesn't that make a whole lot of sense when the when the pursuit slow pursuit up into the left is gonna target that same side parietal and cortex that outputs to the right side? 59:59 Doesn't that I mean that makes sense to me. And I mean, even that saccade that you had found made all my muscles strong. And that was last year. I checked that this year during the summer. And that still is the eye drill that turns everything on for me. 1:00:15 So crazy that you'd found that. And that's still what it is. It's one of the other things we've been talking about where somebody's brain presentation is going to likely be the same unless they hit their head or they get in a really bad accident or injury and then it flips. 1:00:32 But it's very predictable for people what is going to balance them out. And they might, they might benefit from doing just this general saccade. But the fast stretches you, you'll only need one fast stretch on one bicep and you're probably not going to need another fast stretch on the other bicep. 1:00:51 So is the saccade a fast stretch for the muscles in the eye because you have these 8 muscles or I don't know how many muscles it is around your eye. And a saccade is like that fast stretch where the pursuit is kind of like that slow contraction or maybe it could be like, you know, you can even fold your eyes in a certain direction. 1:01:10 Is that like an isometric? And do the saccades and the pursuits kind of act like a fast stretch or an ISO for the person's eyes? Is that, is that what's going on or I don't know. I don't really know what's going on with the saccades and pursuits. 1:01:24 Speaker 2 Well, let's see, is there? 1:01:29 Speaker 1 And hold on what I said about the pursuit up and to the left with and turning on all the muscles on the right side of his body. Does that does that make sense to you or I? I just didn't. 1:01:38 Speaker 2 So going up, going up to the left is gonna be left cerebellum, left parietal. And you said all the this stuff was on his right hand side. Yeah. So the left cerebellum is gonna feed the right cortex, which would then also be the right side PMRF. 1:01:56 So potentially what you're doing is you're hitting it indirectly through the, what is it called? The dentothalmic nucleus something, it's a it's a long word that runs through the track, but there there's a track that connects the cerebellum to the cortex. 1:02:11 And so that could potentially make sense. Yes. Yeah. Up into the you had a lot. 1:02:15 Speaker 1 Of tone. You had a lot of tone too. Like he had a tonal pattern. Was it pure? He also might have had a left pyramidal weakness at the beginning when it first started working with him. But he was a guy where he kept flipping until now We're. 1:02:32 Yeah, but. 1:02:33 Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, but I was just confirming because I was pretty sure. 1:02:37 Understanding Hypertonicity and Reciprocal Inhibition But it's yeah, the eyes have muscles and they have tendons and so which means if you move them fast, you can fast stretch them. So if there is a TONUS potentially on one of the sides, that could play a role for sure. 1:02:54 And that would be something interesting to kind of play around with. I didn't really fully, I mean, I've thought about that, but I've never really thought about that, you know what I mean? Like it's and how that changes things. And maybe it's just the fast stretch of the eyeballs that they need because essentially you're almost doing that. 1:03:09 You're doing repeated fast stretches with the eye, especially when you're doing OPK tape. Yeah. 1:03:15 Speaker 1 Because you're because you're going here and then boom, here, boom here, boom. It's like it's fast stretching that the opposite way. Like every time with with the muscles in the eye. I don't know because in square 1, like, you know, we're holding this isometric and it's going to reciprocally inhibit the antagonist. 1:03:33 And when in square one, this some we talked about before we started this recording. But in square one, when you find that a joint action triggers over and over and over and over again, it's because the other side is tonic and you're not doing anything to the muscle on the other side. 1:03:48 You're just trying to hit it with reciprocal inhibition. So you're either going to have to hold that isometric for duration or you're going to have to do a fast stretch on the other side. So it makes me think with the eyes, because you have the positions of like up, down, left and right that Sean teaches it. And so if you have this I position over and over and over again, it might be trying to tell you something about something else along the chain that isn't obeying the rules of the system. 1:04:12 Cause yeah, we find that a lot of stuff breaks down at this hypertonic principle that the NRS addresses. And that's, that's the same with RPR. Like a muscle might test strong. That doesn't mean that there's not a problem there. Weakness isn't the only problem that you can have. 1:04:27 And that took me a long time to figure out like people saying RPR doesn't work. It's like, I don't know if RPR doesn't work. I just think it's, you don't know how to use it because you don't have all the information about what the problem actually is. And the NRS was the first system to fill those gaps for me or the education. 1:04:43 Choosing Top-Down or Bottom-Up Brain Balancing From you, but yeah, well, I would say too with the eyes and that's where the other part of the NRS is knowing whether you're going to go top down or bottom up approach. And you know the eyes are going to be more of a top down approach and things like your figure eights are going to be more of a bottom up approach. 1:04:59 So if you are going to do the only movements you've declared that you feel like a top down approach is going to make the most amount of global change to the system. Because we've also, I mean, I've seen like what I mentioned with the six year old cerebral palsy going from a bottom up approach to improve her saccades. 1:05:17 We did hip flexion. So essentially all we did was we activated the muscles to reset a postural tone that then brought out the eyes in a certain direction. And I was working with another person the other day and I just had them stand on their left leg and that smoothed out their entire pursuits of, of their lateral pursuits of eye tracking. 1:05:39 So. 1:05:41 Speaker 3 It's just. 1:05:42 Speaker 2 You have to you, you have to recognize that systems are connected and that you can stimulate the different systems by going different areas of the brain. So it's more about what areas do I need to focus on and stimulate that are then also going to have the most global aspect of what's going to change the cortex test? 1:05:59 What's going to change the cerebellum test? What's going to change the brainstem test? What's going to reset the posture of the tone. So it's not just like, OK, we're going to dive in and we're going to do the rapid, you know, saccades or the, you know, up, down, left, right, whatever it is, it's it's still making sure you're understanding. 1:06:17 Do I feel like the top down approach is the best approach right now in this moment? Or do I feel like the bottom up approaches and then is the top down then it's like, OK, yeah, how do I need to fast stretch this and hold these eye positions? Because you know, you could have a square one position where you have to look right or look left or something like that as you're holding an eye source. 1:06:35 Then maybe. But really all they needed to do was just, you know, pulse the the glute Max or something contract, relax the glute or hold the tip, you know, anterior ISO. And then all of a sudden that cleans up the eye, you know, the eye movement, the vestibular system and you no longer have to do it. Like take your dad that you mentioned where the fast stretch of the bicep and that was something alone that held his Vertigo study. 1:07:02 So it's just that fast stretch alone changed the whole vesicular system how everything was being calibrated so. 1:07:09 Speaker 1 So you almost, so you almost did like a bottom up and top down approach with me because you weren't there to test. So you just said it's it's one of these two, it's going to be odd and pursuit this way or it's going to be the fast stretch right here. And it ended up probably being the fast stretch from the testing that I did. 1:07:26 One thing I didn't tell you is he had carpal tunnel surgery on that same wrist. So would have been something to do with that too. 1:07:34 Re-Checking Interventions for Root Cause Resolution But the, the, the point to make there would be that you can make assumptions all you want and assumptions make out of, you know, make an ass out of you and me, right, Because you were, we need to recheck. We need to check that the thing that we're doing is making the change that we wanted to and then we roll with it. 1:07:53 We can't make assumptions about what this person needs, what that person needs, even if they have the same brain presentation. And what I like about the NRS is you just have a lot of options. You got options to, you know, fix it this way, fix it that way. It just just make sure it fixes it. 1:08:08 And that's the thing. But with square one, it's it's it's all about trigger clear, trigger clear. When you balance somebody out, nothing will trigger them. You will put them through the ringer. You will put them through a whole workout of movements they've never done. And if they are in balance, it will not trigger them. It will not fail a muscle test because what you're doing is you're, you're getting closer to the root cause. 1:08:29 I, I know you are and all of these systems do connect. Like Dan Fichter always said, connect the dots, connect the dots. One of the things that you told me when I first met you was you need to figure out how all these things that you've learned, you need to figure out how they connect cuz that's where the gold's AT. 1:08:46 And through what I've seen, what you do and what Doctor J does, it's, it's very similar. It's just the way you do it is different based on the context. 1:08:56 Dr. J's Legacy: Balance as Training Foundation So one question I had to I, I really, really wanted to ask you is about Doctor J. And I'm seeing him tomorrow. But one of the things you told me was that a lot of people don't know their history when it comes to the isometrics, the extreme Isos and the training style that he did. 1:09:13 Because when you, when you watch him and Dennis, they, they, they drop hints about it. But it, you look, you look online and there's no information about Doctor J being connected to ARP Wave. He was one of the foundational members of ARP Wave. And what they would do was Doctor J would balance them out. 1:09:29 They would be considered in balance, which is what we are talking about right now. We're talking about being in balance, OK. And all that meant was all your muscles were on. They were all firing. They were all producing force in an isolated manual muscle test. And that meant that, you know, these basic eight were on, you were good to go train, you were good to go do your isometrics. 1:09:47 And when we're getting these results, where the, the results that you're talking about, the results that I'm talking about, it's it's because these athletes are in balance. Whether we're checking the muscles or not, the neuro tests are enough to tell you that somebody is in balance. So why, why did Schroeder and Dennis, why did they start with this concept of balance? 1:10:08 Why, Why was it the first thing they did and did it make their results better? And are people missing this concept of balance when they're talking about extreme isometrics and depth drops and all these great training methods? It didn't happen without starting with balance first. 1:10:25 You know, even Ryan Paul talks about doctor, excuse me, J Schroeder using different neuro drills that we're talking about right now, like he was already doing that stuff 20 years ago to get the athletes in balance to train them at a higher level for longer. 1:10:40 I just don't know that these results are possible in the way that they're talking about without the balance because it feels like I was doing the isometrics completely perfect. But until I understood balance, it didn't work like this. It didn't work this well. The results didn't stick this long. 1:10:56 The athletes weren't recovering this fast. The acute pain wasn't going away as quickly. So balance is making everything better and that's what they started with. Do you think balance has that big of an impact on the kind of training that somebody does? 1:11:13 Like if we balance them out, I mean it it it almost seems like they were hiding it. 1:11:18 Brain Balance: Tripling Reps, Boosting Metabolic Capacity Well, I I see it very easily. 1:11:22 Speaker 2 Because I also work with very neurological compromised patients. So take Elaine, for instance, where I mentioned the hereditary spastic paraplegia. She's lying on her back and she's taking her finger to her nose. She can do a decent amount of reps, but after every single time she hit the 7th Rep, she continued to get worse. 1:11:40 Didn't matter if it was 1520, thirty reps, every single one got worse. And that's what we call trans neurodegeneration. So essentially there's not enough fuel to the system. So she has nothing left for her to keep going to improve the accuracy. But soon as I balance her out and I present a pattern or stimulus to her that, you know, essentially puts her in harmony, she goes and does 26 reps nonstop. 1:12:04 Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. No hesitation, no nothing. So because I'm working with neurological compromise patients, like that doesn't make sense. If we call somebody and say they have TND, then you say hey, they have a limited amount of fuel or metabolic capacity to work with. 1:12:20 But all of a sudden if you balance out the brain, you just gave them a much bigger bowl and now instead of doing 7 reps, we can get 26 perfect reps in, which now is only going to further upgrade your system. So I see it very easily with just the neurological compromised patients I see from. 1:12:36 But if you're working with strength or with athletes, you know, you're not going to see that kind of drastic change potentially because they're younger, they're healthier. So I, I get a hands on, you know, an idea of how this actually holds up And, and to say, Hey, this person doesn't have the metabolic capacity yet. 1:12:54 You balance out the brain and all of a sudden they're tripling their reps That shouldn't happen, but it is happening. So what, what's happening? Why is it happening? 1:13:02 Brain Balance as the Root of Performance & Injury Prevention And so absolutely you do need to balance out the brain first because we know that when the brain is balanced, tone is gonna be balanced and we know that how the injuries happen and balance a tone, it's as simple as that. Hamstring becomes too tight, quad becomes too tight and all that comes from the brain, how the brain is communicating with the rest of the body. 1:13:23 And so if we can go and just go essentially to the root cause of the brain and change how the brain is perceiving and holding the joints, holding the muscle tension, get everything where the slack is perfectly the way that it needs to be, then there's less likely of injuries to happen. Your, your outputs going to be better. 1:13:39 You're going to run faster, you're going to throw harder, like it's just going to happen because there's less things the brain has to think about. You know, I, I mentioned sometimes, like alone with the pink glasses can take away somebody's pain. 1:13:51 Calming Sensory Overload for Improved Motor Function Why? Because their system is so over stimulated from a sensory standpoint. You put on a color on their, on their, over their eyes that slows the information going into the brain. So then their brain can actually process and all their motor function improves. You get increased motor tests, whether it's strength, muscle testing, whether it's, you know, just range of motion and you, you can even get pain to go away because simply all you're doing is just taking the overload of the sensory system, calming that down. 1:14:19 So then it can re up like regulate the motor system because when the sensory get system gets over stimulated and it gets greedy, it has to take from somewhere else and other areas start to suffer. And so then that's where the motor system is not being as responsive. And so you could spend all of your time massaging chiropractic adjustments, strengthening those things. 1:14:36 But if you never create the balance of sensory and motor systems and all those tracks within the brain, you're not going to get anywhere. They might feel good for 20 minutes, but it's not going to create a change. And so this whole system is, is, is about balancing out the brain. 1:14:54 Because once the brain is balanced and you can actually train them and their true authentic state, which is, is, you know, that's what you want. And so, yeah, so it's not. 1:15:06 Speaker 1 Really. So you're not? Yeah. I mean, you're not even really. I mean you are elevating somebody relative to where they. 1:15:12 Speaker 2 I got where they are. I got 2 minutes here too by the way. 1:15:15 Practical Advice for Maintaining Brain Balance Daily 2 minutes OK last last question piece of advice. How do you how do you how do you fuck I geez, I got like 90 more questions for you How do you give give somebody some simple advice on balance like how does somebody stay in balance longer? 1:15:33 How do they create balance without learning the NRS without, without, you know, just one simple thing that they can take away. How do they either stay in balance longer or how do they gain balance back? What do they do? 1:15:47 Speaker 2 What do they do? 1:15:49 Discipline, Observation, and Frequent Repetition for Balance Well they probably first go to a neuro readiness system course and learn. Second thing, learn to be disciplined. So learn to say, OK, like learn to observe and be disciplined. Because if I can find the one thing that's off and then I can have the person or individual do this one thing every 60 minutes for just a few reps, it really wakes up the brain. 1:16:13 And so it's not like you just work out in the morning and then the change is just going to dramatically change. It's like, no, this is the one thing that makes the most global amount of change. Now throughout the rest of the day, every 60 minutes, you're going to perform three to five, six reps, whatever it might be of this action, and then come back tomorrow and let's see what happens. 1:16:31 And so it's usually the understanding of, hey, it's a combination of how I train and move my clients, plus in addition to the one thing that made the biggest difference, how can I have them simply apply that into their life all throughout the rest of the day to create the change and let it stick? 1:16:47 And that's usually what I find balances out the brain the best. 1:16:50 Brain Balance: Beyond Athletes, Future Roundtable on Volta I just want to give one note there before you go, what to Do about Your Brand and Your child by Glenn Dolman. They did the same thing in that in that resource back in the 50s. They had kids that couldn't talk, walk, anything like this. If they could creep or they could crawl, they were going to crawl every hour on the hour for multiple reps They were going to do this frequently. 1:17:08 The frequency is making a big impact that that's a really important thing to note. The same thing was noted in Brain Gym and with Smart Moves by Carla Hannaford. All these principles were used, you know, 20 to 50 years ago to help kids with learning disabilities, brain injuries. 1:17:25 So I think and you you had mentioned this on our neuro call that balancing the brain is not only beneficial for athletes, it's also beneficial for students. It's also beneficial in the workplace. You know, people are their, their brain works better when you're able to inhibit the sympathetics and allow the parasympathetics to reach threshold. 1:17:44 And any good therapy is doing that. It's just that the NRS is getting closer to the root of what's going on and it makes things make sense on the back end. So thank you, Doctor Burton, so much for taking the time to talk with me today. Looking forward to our next neural call together and looking forward to getting back in person with you in Jacksonville here in a few weeks. 1:18:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, that'll be amazing. We'll have to do another one for sure. 1:18:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, get Evan Lewis and Sam Davis to do a little roundtable, have everybody share their experiences because we didn't even get into the Volta, which is the the thing that we should talk about next with Evan and Sam is the Volta. We should we should all get together and do a Volta roundtable. Talk about that. 1:18:23 Speaker 2 Well, because that that's also another very easy way to show the difference.