Episode 191: Having A SCREAM with Kevin Williamson

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Hello, nice. Come on. These are Lenea, quickly workout shirt. Wow. Come on, man. Come on. It's right down the work. That is a very hard video to get through. Okay. I have an VHS. I watch it late one night and it is incredibly hard. It's a lot of highlights from Lenea's career at that time, but when she gets into the work outside, it's kind of a slog. It's a jazzer size, but not the most innovative jazzer size. Yeah. It's definitely more of a Lenea, a quickly clip show. Me and Rob are going to do it for charity. We're going to work out live stream with Lenea, right? Where I grow up, you know? When we're after all this, you mean? After all this. If we survive this, if we survive, we're done. No, no, no, no, no. We do this during the Zoom. Let's do it next week. Next week, all of us doing it for charity. I want headbands. I want leg warmers. I want them. I do have her seven inch for, she put out a seven inch record for these boots are made for walking. I have that too. Yeah, I picked that up. Why not? I listened to it when I work out. That is. I have a lot of crossover. It's. That is the way that's. That's Ryan's pump song. Like when he's feeling like, oh man, I can't do another rap set. Then suddenly he's like, these boots made for walking. I walk into the, I walk into the church of gains with those boots. Wow. Oh, how's everybody doing? It's been a week. It's been a couple. It's been a few months. Yeah. I've lost all three. This is the most burned out I've been today, but I don't know if I am hoping it's just the week. Yeah. I'm hoping it's here. It's settling in. I forgot to start marking off the days. I have a calendar. And my, my morning ritual now is I wake up. I go down. I get a cup of coffee. I open up the iPad. I start reading the news for the morning. And I, you know, casually kind of crossed off the day on the calendar. And two days ago, I realized I was missing days. I forgot to cross those days off. I had no idea where we were. So mine was, there, the house next door to me has been vacant forever. And somebody bought it right at the start of the pandemic. And they've been slowly starting to do this like, gutting full renovation of it. And some days are louder than others. And on, it was a couple of days ago, they have posted up that, you know, they can work Monday through Saturday, but they can't work Sundays. And in the morning, there's hammering and all this drill and jack hammering. And I head outside in my pajamas and I'm standing in my backyard and I'm like, it's a fucking Sunday. What the fuck? And then I thank you. And then this small tiny voice comes back over the fence. Ma'am, it's Monday. And then I was suddenly like, God, I am such a bitch. And I have no clue what day it is. It's amazing. I've lightly apologized and took them a bunch of oranges later. Nice. Nice. Well, we have a really good show ahead listeners. We're going to get into what we've been watching over the last week. But after all done with that, we've got a very special guest. We have Kevin Williamson. I'm going to show Kevin fucking Williamson, guys. You're a couple years. I took a couple years. A couple took me a decade. What are you kidding me? I tried to get Kevin for my screen documentary. But here we are. I'm in it. He's not on that. No. Crazy. No. I'm not saying it. But yeah. And we talked about this. I mean, at the time, he was really deep. He was in the thick of vampire diaries and stuff like that. But over the years, we become friends. When we were shooting Halloween kills, he was producing a film on the same lot with Mark Forten and Josh Miller with Russell Crowe. We always cross paths. It was really weird to see the guy involved in each two-o being so close to the Myers house, which I can now say is actually in the film because we revealed that over the weekend during our Halloween live tweet. The Myers house does make a appearance in Halloween kills. But yeah, we're going to get into the needy greedy with him and talk about cool slasher films in his past and what's going on now. Very. And we'll have to confirm when he joins us. But I believe he has only done one podcast ever and that was the following podcast, which I did with him in Scott Reynolds, because he said this is my first ever podcast. He was very nervous about it. So, so glad that this will be his second. Wow. Both with you. So, yeah. He can't podcast without you. I think I'll pan us for his only one at the time I remember. Yeah. I like that. That's a fun thing. All right. Cool. So, before we get into what we watched this week, we should plug that we have two events. I don't even know what you call them now. We have two online events coming up this weekend. Right as this is releasing on Friday, the 22nd, Ryan and Elric and I are in a child's place, and I'm going to be in a little bit of a little bit of a story. I've been told that the script is drastically different. I am curious. Oh interesting. So I'm excited. I Am playing I can't remember the character name, but it's her best friend. I'm playing detective Mike Norris. Nice Rob's Chuckie because my campaign's in full swing. It's gonna happen last minute. They're gonna kick someone out. I'm some cop. I don't know what I am I don't probably guys smoke your Jack your Jack Santos. Yes, Jack Santa. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. I'll like there you go The voodoo guy then on Saturday night. So the day after this airs on the 23rd at 8 p.m. Pacific We will be doing a live Chat for Chattanooga for the Chattanooga Film Festival, which if you have not seen their online lineup They have some amazing films playing 30 dollars. You can see everything including our live panel I don't know how the live panel works. We just log in on zoom, but Apparently we can see an interact with everybody Thanks, I'm Chris. Yeah, I thought it was one one in the afternoon. So it shows how out of loop I am. So there you go I was like, oh, it's a daytime thing. All right. All right. No, I think it's it's evening. Yeah, it's evening All right, I was looking at Australasian time again. All right. Moving on So what'd you guys watch this week? A lot a lot of stuff Yeah, so for some strange reason I got a itch to watch anaconda from 1997 Yes, you did don't don't ask me why I think it's just because I've been kind of having an itch to watch a lot of like kind of late 90s stuff and Anaconda at the time I felt was not good and guess what it doesn't hold up What no, it's a really good. You remember? Well take it take it back. Here's your own certain theaters. It was fun. I remember no, no, no, no, no It wasn't fun. It was a lot of eye rolling and a lot of boredom, you know Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's not a great movie though. John Lutho does not make that movie great It's you know, I think that's the that's a problem with an anaconda nostalgia hashtag anaconda nostalgia is that everybody remember his Everybody remembers John Voie in the incredibly over the top super hammy Performance a delivered now you've also got Ice cube you've got J.Lo You've got Eric Stolt you got Owen Wilson you got all these people, you know coming together for a high adventure Nature run a mock giant anaconda movie, but The I just there's a pacing to it that is just so laborious and Repetitive that I just kind of like check out like I once you get into the Oh, there's a giant snake chasing us. We need to get down the river and outpace it and hopefully make it in time It's just not a whole lot Driving this engine, you know you get into the kind of the John Voie going oh, we need to we need to save this anaconda and I'm going to capture it Baby bird whatever you fucking says And then you've got J.Lo who who at the time in J.Lo is just like a fucking movie star Let's just I mean she's gorgeous. She even a 97. She was just like amazing. I am a big J.Lo fan Eric Stoltz who has nothing to do in the movie, you know He like makes a joke about he's gonna like go out scoot. He's gonna go dive off the side of the boat to Free up the propeller and he talks about oh, yeah There was like this fucking bug that gets up your penis and you know, you got to dig it out and you're like oh god That's terrible and then he gets something in his throat and then he sleeps the rest of the movie. Yeah, he gets like an allergic reaction It gets a bee gets done. He gets done in his through. Yeah, yeah, you have to do that weird tricky Automy and that's out for the rest of the movie. Yeah, he's the easiest job in the world for him um and then Cari were you got cari were you know, and I really miss seeing cari were and horror movies. She's always She always brings some energy to it, but man I mean like this there's nothing to this story It's just it's just a big drag until the big finale, which is Admittedly a little bit fun, but the CGI man. It just does not it didn't hold up then and it looks even worse now I'm sorry. I just can't I can't ride hard for anaconda Well, this I'm gonna get through and even bolder horror statement out there than I enjoy anaconda I actually think I like blood orchid better than the first one Credit it's been a piece since I've seen it and I need to revisit but I always found blood orchid to be fun too I watched blood orchid when I was going through my divorce and I was squatting in an apartment I just made it even more depressing It loses one star letter Just yeah, the funny thing is is I looked up you know how many anaconda movies so there's anaconda Anaconda hunt for the blood orchid. There's like I think it goes up to four and then they do They team up well then they do anaconda versus like like It's called it's literally called Lake Placid versus anaconda, which means an entire fucking lake is taking on a giant snake Like you can't say Lake Placid alligator or you can't say something in late. I don't know Like there's got to be a better title for that Well, he never got a name We never made him. What was something don't say a body of water versus a giant snake stupid Give me a break He's coming in hot today I know I'll be taking the condo. This is what happens when I'm fed when I'm when I'm well fed before a show here we go Robin got what you got over there you look hot robber you look hot you look hot rob Yeah, I just this is day 69 or so and it's the first week. I haven't felt 100% So Yeah, I think it's just allergies and anxiety and just being stuck inside rather than anything so Um, well, I dug into I've got a film here called trauma not to be confused with the Daria or a gender one But this is one that vinegar syndrome just put out. It's part of their Spat they're forgotten jalee collection. Oh, they just oh nice And by the way as of this recording their halfway to black Friday sales happening right now. So You can get a lot of their stuff for half off including this film Um, this is interesting because these are these are all Spanish movies right and um We already kind of know what to expect from Italian jello films, but like it's weird This feels like that, but because it's Spanish there's like a It's just kind of slightly different Sleezier vibe to it if you can imagine that and that is basically a late 70s riff on psycho It's a writer who Um, is looking to take a break from his wife and work on his new book So he finds himself at this odd bed and breakfast and it's run by this um this beautiful young woman um, who's got a wheelchair bound husband up in the addicts who we never really see We just see her going up there and communicating with him uh and That's kind of the basic gist of it like obviously you're like All right, well, we're not seeing the husband. So If there's a killer it's either this woman or it's this mysterious writer and sure enough People come like tenants like this couple was out, you know looking to go hiking and they get stuck in the rain So they come to the bed and breakfast and you know they get completely naked It's it's very extra sleazy and a um Killer with black gloves and a straight razor comes in and Hacks out of so it's a slight murder mystery in that way, but um, but again, it's it's definitely feels like A Spanish knockoff of psycho and and that translation is very interesting Um, and it's it's pretty short this one was 87 minutes, uh, which is why I started to do this one Um, but it's pretty cool. I kind of like it and and uh, I never Yeah, it's called trauma. It's in Spanish with English subtitles all three of the films in the forgotten july collection or like this And I don't think this is ever even gotten a video release in America. So it's never gotten an English subtitle um track so Uh, I just like again, it's part of the joy of what we do is that we think we've seen it all And then a movie you didn't even know existed from some weird error in in the late 70s from Spain Comes out of nowhere and actually has a couple of pretty cool moments in it. They are like, oh, that's pretty wild Yeah, yeah, I'm recommending uh trauma and the uh forgotten july collection from vinegar syndrome Nice What were the other titles in the forgotten july collection? Uh, I don't have them handy But they're they're really funny. It's like ones like the police can do I'm totally good at it. It's like some like the police don't know what they're doing But it was actually really funny um Yeah, I don't have them handy one. I'm like a trip. Yeah, I started with trauma because they um Um Yeah, yeah, this is just the one that seemed like right up my alley. So Nice Yeah, very cool Well, Elric, what did you watch? Um, I started a couple older things and one new thing. I'll start with the Older films because I like them more. I saw I was very happy to see on turner classic movies I steward Gordon double feature which made me very happy to see TCM embracing steward's legacy From beyond which I didn't watch again, but they also played dolls which I recorded And I have only seen dolls once and I remember really liking it and I liked it even more this time It is such a fun movie at 77 minutes the comics are awesome. It's got a great kind of childlike sensibility to it and There's a gag early on where the little girl they it's a you know a very nasty Couple of parents and this little girl gets stuck in a storm literally. It's a stormy night movie They have to go to this house and the evil stepmother is very correlative Throws the girls little teddy bear into the trees and when she goes to get it a giant monster version like you know like a 10 foot Monster teddy bear comes out in such a good effect. It's so much fun like it's just it's a film full of creativity and it moves like lightning I highly recommend if you've never done this one for if you're worried because it's Charles band If for some reason you don't like the other types of doll movies that he's produced. It's it's really nothing like it's great And it's your sensibility, but it's so cool to see something as you know because I can always That's one thing I wanted to actually mention today was the importance of curation now in films and podcasts and all the shit is Because I can watch dolls probably any time on Amazon or shutter, but I don't want to I haven't wanted to in years And as soon as it was playing on TCM Under God I was like hell yes I need to watch that because Stewart Gordon's appearing on TCM same with criteria and whatever it is I think this is a time more than ever where things are just all over the map and what your impulse is to watch is kind of hard You know unless you have a podcast or a reason by subject and I think I really want to take my hat off to programmers And a lot of the things that are shut right now film programmers Cinemas and stutch, but so that was really fun to rewatch that one and the one I really dug Which I hadn't seen so the part of my continued quest to see horror hadn't seen this one's not quite trapped on VHS anymore But it has a beautiful looking blue humongous I had never seen humongous and I always remember the artwork Which is like the kids bathing walks the big big thing dude I and I also know some people started on VHS and said they could hardly see the image because it was so dark this blue ray is utterly gorgeous Is this like a man baby movie? It's not actually that's that it's misleading. Okay. I'm not a man baby But it could have been that kind of story. That's what I thought went going into it Well first off, it's really cool because it's a Labor Day horror movie So it opens with Labor Day, you know 1949 or something. I was like oh cool. We've got Labor Day horrorful And it the starts really ugly like the start is looks a bit like What is the one? What's the Zedo film with the pitchfork my brain? Prouder? Prouder? Yeah, it opens with that same kind of flashback to the past and it looks all kind of glossy and you know kind of with that dreamy fog haze to this island Which in this rich person's party and this woman is trying to get away from this really sleazy guy and she runs into the forest And then he like gets really nasty with her and starts heading around and then it's leading up to a rape But there's also all these trained dogs that are really vicious and one of them goes to save her Kills the guy after he's finished attacking her and she's just you know sitting there upset And it's all kind of ambiguous some weird connection between her and the dog and then it just cuts to like 50 years later Frappoy party kind of on a boat and you're like whoa that was a tonal shift Because it's actually quite realistic the opening so I would put that up there for anyone who's like sensitive that it's quite intense I got to be honest But then it becomes a much more fun traditional kind of slasher where they get to this a bunch of kids end up crashing on island They've taken it out for a spin they they meet somebody who's kind of gone overboard and they accidentally end up on this Island where the guy who they pick up says well There was a woman who used to live on that island 40 years ago And I think she's still there with wall dogs, but no one sees her. She's kind of lost her mind and then you start to realize That she obviously had some sun 40 years ago who is on the island and he's run out of food And then they've washed up on shore and he's like this. I kind of noted that it reminded me of anthropopagus in terms of story structure just before dawn in terms of the way it looked and madman as a shadowy dark figure It's like all three of those kind of combined by I a genuine this is a movie I always thought I would think was stupid for some reason and I really liked it So did the director of prom night pole Lynch and I'm not a you know, I don't think prom nights the best slasher by any means But he's you know, he's made a couple other pretty interesting exploitation films But some of the kills and just the way it shot. I'd say direction wise. It's very strong It's like a very well put together movie for the kind of movie it is the characters are pretty pretty you know silly for the most part There's also a bit of a nod to what it might have been before Friday Two it's when Ginny pretends to be mother, right? It's Friday - yeah They there's a gag quite similar to that at the end. I'm not so I'm not sure what year this was But it's really good. It's a really cool movie and I would highly recommend just going for this blue Because it looks really great Yeah, I think who was it Ronin Flix? I think I picked up from them with like a code red deal But my one of my favorite jokes of all time was Before I lived in LA like 15 years ago back in Long Island when I first met Paul Eller is the guy that played Madman Mars like the whole the whole story behind that was that I was randomly In Northport and somebody told me that he lived there and I just was like you know Be cool if I just got burgers with Madman Mars. I'm gonna reach out to this guy and sure enough like a week later I met him at some burger joint in Northport and I remember posting a photo saying I had burgers with Madman Mars and Our friend Dave Parker was the first one to comment being like what's next coffee with humongous? Like the students good podcast I'd listen to coffee with humongous But anyway, that's fun seek it out So I watched a couple of new things this week. I'm so I'm gonna start with one that is not available wide spread until August it comes out on August 21st But I was able to get a screening link of the Russian film Sputnik Which was picked up by IFC and they gave me their blessing to talk about it beforehand So yeah, I really enjoyed this. It's gotten kind of mixed reviews, but I had a blast with it The whole setup is that in the cold open we see two astronauts in Sputnik in this kind of space capsule and they are about to re-enter earth's atmosphere and everything is cool And then all of a sudden they see something move outside of their tiny little window and then all the sudden shit Just goes haywire it crashes to earth One of them is alive, but has no recollection of what went on and the other one is like torn to shreds And so they military picks up the one that still alive puts him in this kind of containment union Unit and then brings in this really questionable place by our own rules Psychologist to try to get his memory back of what happened and what's going on now and I will say without revealing a lot of twists There's a lot of alien action that happens in this movie when you find out what actually happened to him What he's carrying within his own body kind of what his ultimate mission is now whether he is still who he says he is Whether the military may be involved in it in some capacity This is in the middle of cold war so there's a lot of kind of Political maneuvering and who knows what and what this could be used for and is she upon and things like that being brought up So I had a blast with this. I was seeing some reviews online that were like you could see that they were like trying to do like an alien thing But it's not aliens. No, of course. It's not aliens the whole thing takes place here on earth So yeah, but that said and it's all very contained in this military Bunker but I had a blast with it and the alien looks fucking awesome That's cool. I thought it was a trip that sounds like I like to concede of it, which you know kind of supported like classic Horror movies like it the terror from beyond space, which was about a guy an astronaut trying to recall what had happened on his ship and Even recently when I was watching contamination I forgot it's about two astronauts who basically come to earth and one has got some alien agenda going on and the other one is trying to Track him down, you know, I For some strange reason that's a that's a particular plot that I enjoy Yeah, it was it's a fun one and I will say that it's also got some notes of the thing to it going on But then the whole way that the thing kind of breaks down I really enjoyed and it went places that I wasn't expecting it to that's cool Plus there's not a lot of Russian horror. I mean there's some of course, but that's I always kind of start thinking about that So actually I was texting one of you guys. I can't remember who while I was watching it Talking about how it I was watching a Russian horror film. So I was emailing somebody because maybe it may have been you Because I know Ryan asked about the film as well But yeah, and what because of this I ended up because I was talking with a couple of people about how there's not a lot of Russian Hors and then immediately I was like well, I'm sure there are some that I've never seen before like I feel like there has to be more than just like What the night one from a couple of years ago and you know, there has to be night watch night watch There has to be more than night watch because that was the only one that I could like readily name And I found a listing of like the 20 best Russian horror films from the past 10 years and I added every single one of them to my queue I'm curious what any any of them recognizable that we've heard of or No, a couple of them like the devil's past was one that I had seen make the indie festival rude a couple of years ago But I'd never watched it That was the only one that I like looked at was immediately like oh that one all the rest of them like there was one that looked really cool about This urban legend movie theater We're supposedly if you walk in and buy a ticket for this one particular movie It's like a death sentence and you'll meet your fate and I was like that's a cool thing So I just I just ordered a copy of it today. I don't know if it has English subtitles or not This could get exciting, but I'm going all the way into Russian horror films now To see what I can do. I had returned to the living dead four and five because that is some great What's on that shot at Chernobyl? That's all I remember Back to back at Chernobyl. I'm like great idea. No, I don't know Ryan just made his anaconda face right when you said Baby bird But that said Sputnik was a trip. It's coming in August Sputnik Well, we're gonna we're gonna pivot pretty strong here, and I'm gonna move into 1983's play dead by Peter Whipin now This is a vinegar syndrome classic that I've been that I've had in my library and I think I bought it site unseen For whatever reason. Oh, that's right. Become a monster's fan And I want to see everything that Ivan De Carlo is in especially when especially when Ivan De Carlo plays a scorned woman Who uses her dog for revenge after she Uses a satanic curse and puts it on the dog so the dog becomes a kind of a devil dog and viewed with the powers of Satan And she goes after people in her own family lineage for revenge because something about some bullshit about our lover dying and You know her sister was I don't know Mary to this person. I don't know I that that all bullshit But we know the mechanics of the devil dog. Yeah, yeah, that's all we knew really no Because I don't know about all the soap operatic bullshit at the core of it But so basically you got Ivan De Carlo having very lengthy conversations with a dog Who clearly has powers and she sets this dog? The dog does everything a dog Goes under a sink and grabs poison and pours the poison. It's somebody's drink The dog can attack you, you know as dogs sometimes do But yeah, I and there's no third act to the film It kind of like builds up and you're kind of following this one girl Who is related to you varns character and basically she is the target of revenge like everybody in the periphery You know is taken out one by one around this girl and she's wondering if she's losing her mind and then I mean like I'm gonna send a fucking spoiler because honestly this is a movie that could be spoiled So basically she sets this girl up The cops are closing in they keep thinking it's this poor innocent girl They're not even looking at Ivan De Carlo and then she gets framed for murder and Then she gets put away and then Ivan De Carlo is like Dog your time is done come and get a treat and she takes the treat and she throws it off a cliff And the dog goes jumping off the cliff to go get the treat and she kills the dog But guess what the dog is fucking supernatural at this point and he So he comes back and he was he immediately do he goes after you vandu Carlo and then that's it in the movie ends And I'm like, but wait a minute. Where's the third act where our innocent girl gets you know It's cleared for these crimes and then discovers that there's a satanic dog on a loose No one knows this So it's kind of like two thirds of a movie not a very good one and The kind of dialogue is kind of works in a circular fashion so you're kind of following this This investigator as he's trying to you know trying to find out who's murdering all these people and he'll like walk into a coroner's office And he's like so what do we got? Corner says well, he's been poisoned the cops says he's been poisoned Tell me more and the guy goes well. He's been poisoned by rat poison Rat poison you say and it's like this is this is the level of dialogue So you're not yet to come to Scripps gone wild this Friday with Ryan God anyways play dad I think the the one upside to the play dad vinegar syndrome package is that you can it's got a reversible sleeve And when you on the front on the cover I got it's play dead and dog coming through the window you flip it over It's devil dog and it's got some fucking beautiful heavy metal artwork of like a woman and then there's like a fucking metal dog I got like I'm fucking demon dog there. It looks like something you put on the side of a van It's beautiful and that's why I'm gonna hold on to it nice You sold to you and it's right there I bet He's moving product. Yeah Oh, oh, can I just I just want to chime in this is not a full review But I do want to say that tying into the dog element I watch scoop exclamation point over the weekend You know what? What happened to Scooby-Doo? Where is the Scooby-Doo movie in that movie? It's a super where it's the horror. Yeah, where's the horror? It's like a really the first 10 minutes is really neat I was like oh, I could totally watch a film with them as kids Yeah, and I agree I think it's a very well-made movie It's cute. It's very cute. It's very cute. It's very cute. It's very cute. For our generation It is not doing in fact the worst part is and this is not a I'm not gonna give anything away There's a little part in the intro credits which shows all the old Monsters and I was so excited because I just wanted to be a classic. No, I'm with you I it's a perfectly fun movie, but it's a total superhero film and it needs it needed to be In need of the mystery in either the mystery and the spookiness of the Not necessarily show. So anyways, all right. Sorry Rob go ahead. I promised my kids that for Saturday night of Oh go for it It will probably still like it. That's the thing. Yeah, I love it It was my turn I got I only got one other thing I'm with an dimension not even a full feature but Hold on bringing it up on my letterbox but I of course love one cut of the dead. It's one of my favorite movies of last year I think it was my number one movie last year for most of us And it was fun to see a lot of people watch it for the first time on the last drive in this past weekend, but More than that it it showed me that they did a follow-up in Quarantine called one cut of the dead mission remote what it's it's 20 minutes long. It's on YouTube and Basically the two producers from the movie call up the director and say hey, we're in quarantine But we want you to do like an unsolved mystery style true crime reenactment show in quarantine and we want you to get the cast back and Just you know figured out dude or your fuzzy whatever. So of course he calls his daughter He skypes his daughter his wife is I think in America studying studying acting in English and basically his daughter is helping him come up with an idea to do kind of like a true crime reenactment show and Throughout it. It's really fun because of course they do they do one version of it and he gets like to the Actors to come back and it's kind of terrible So then basically his daughter zooms in again. He's like all right. Here's how you have to make it good And and it's it's yet again and that's the funny thing and the magic of that movie is it is Beautiful is a one-off movie in terms of a celebration of making horror movies and I know a lot of people can't get past the first 30 minutes or whatever it is the movie is about making that first 30 minutes That's that's the mild spoiler. It is a celebration of independent filmmaking and by the end of it You are touched by the fact that they all pulled together to make this weird little zombie movie that you see in the first 30 minutes and Again, I just by the end of it you just love those characters. You love the father-daughter dynamic. You love it on and This may be realized. I do want to see more of them So if you go on YouTube again, it's called one cut of the dead Mission remote and it's a 28 minute film a short film that they did all in quarantine and it's interesting that everybody's doing this now I also watch the Parks and Rec One which was a super creative and very fun So I just I think it's fun how this is kind of bringing people together and and if you stick it out by the end by the end of the short You will see pretty much everybody from the crew zoom in for a drunken party and you're just like oh, they all are this fun That's really cool and and also Now I'm on the hunt in and finding this there's something called From last year 50 minutes long and it's called one cut of the dense spin-off in Hollywood and I don't think it's there's a trailer that's not in English and it's a lot of the people from the movie And I think this made it to the film markets I think it was at like AFM and a few of the film markets But I couldn't find any information on this so I don't know if it's like an unofficial sequel I think it was made as a TV special because uh judging just from the hour long um running time So yeah, no, I'm just glad to see the lot of the the casting crew and the filmmakers involved in one cut of the dead have been Doing fun little side things if you look for it. So Uh, yeah, one kind of dead mission remote. I'm gonna check it out very cool Nice. Uh, I saw a new film uh, I knew which film I think uh Ryan's talked about this one before it's it might be the ultimate quarantine film and that is the Viverian The only problem is I really don't like it because I don't like the way it felt watching this movie It's a we it's a one of those movies it would have made if it had been a little shorter I felt like it's more of a in the hulu into the dark or a very good version of that in terms of structure and style But it's there's something about this movie. It's so well made. It's got image and poots who I love Uh from green room and jesse isenberg and it's very formally kind of perfect They go into kind of a Truman show-esque world. I think you've talked about this right, Ryan? So the setup, I don't want you to know, it's just a young couple looking for a place to live. They go into a showroom home and there's very weird guys, almost Android-ish, in terms of just as nature, takes them to a place where every house looks exactly the same. To a point where it's actually Edward Susserhand like in those neighborhoods. And they go into the house, they check it out and they can't leave. They drive around the blocking, can never leave. They are stuck there forever. And this is where they are now and they don't see any other people. And then one day there's a baby with them and suddenly they're looking after a baby that's not theirs. And it keeps escalating. And so it's got a really great hook. It's one of those films that at a 25 minute short type level, you could imagine somebody making that, oh, Greenlight is a feature, such a perfect concept. But at a feature level, especially watching it right now, where it is perfect. It is almost like symbolically doing all the things we are actually going through ourselves. It really is. It's going through these life cycles that everyone's stuck in right now because they're home. But it's also kind of deeply unpleasant in that way. And also, at no point did I feel even a sliver of hope for any of the characters. I didn't think there's any chance of, and I don't want to go into spoilers. But it was a real freaking downer, man. And I like depressing movies, but I like depressing movies that kind of dark. This is so well done. But at no point did I, it's like it's not that I didn't care. But it's like I didn't believe that they could ever, anything good could ever happen to them. And therefore, it cancels something. It cancels something out inside you, which you get from even chainsaw masker, where she gets in the back of it. Trucking is driving away. You need to have feel a little bit of that. I would be curious if this was a short first. It definitely feels like it. Again, I wouldn't take away from the direction. Style of this film is really strong. But for me, it was a real downer. I've got to say in this in this current climate. And I can't, I don't want to fault the film too much, just in case, having seen this outside of this climate, at a festival might play differently. But for me, I need to see at least a chance or something. Does that make sense? Yeah, that was why I was joking when it popped up on iTunes. Sierra and I watched the trailer for it. And you know, it evokes that claustrophobia and that sense of hopelessness and being stuck inside. And this was at the start of quarantine. And I sat there and I went, maybe we should wait. And Sierra is like, oh no, I want to watch that right now. I was like, no, we like the more in the two of you. I think she did. I think she did. I think what was driving me was just the curiosity of what was it? What was the world was going? Do you ever, does it ever tell you about what the world is? Like do you get mythos or does it just exist? You get a lot of visual myths, but I would say if you like everything tied up, you probably won't quite get it. I will say there's a sequence towards the end that was a bit of a turn on in terms of just like the stylization of it. It reminded me I'm a panoscosmodus kind of sequence for about 10 minutes. I was like, oh, that's pretty bad ass, but just something about it left me wanting. I would say. And this one was on Netflix. No, I think. Or maybe not quite on Netflix, but maybe I served on Voodoo. But yeah, the very. Well, I got another new one that I watched on Shutter. This one just came to Shutter, I think, last week. And this is Monstrum. South Korean movie. I had a blast with this one. I thought it was so good. So the setup of this one, it is sets. We, we, we long ago, I wish I knew my South Korean history. I set during a very particular era that when I was looking at reviews, people was like, oh, this is set during the certain era of South Korean history. The setup of it is that there's this plague. And it wiped out tons and tons of people. And now fast forward 10 years. And the villagers are now being told and experiencing that this monster is sweeping the countryside and wiping people down. And with it, it's bringing plague. If you get near the monster, you get the plague. And so all of these bodies are turning up. And so the emperor kind of brings together these two factions to go hunt down the monster. One of them, he gets, which is this kind of vigilante used to be a soldier, but left be in a soldier. And he brings along his entire family. He has a couple of sons. He's got an adopted daughter. And so he brings along his entire family with him as part of like a vigilante team. And then in addition to that, there is this kind of more organized military court group of fighters that are the tiger killers. That's what they're paid to do if they hunt down man-eating tigers in the nation. And these two groups who are nothing alike are meant to kind of team up to go find this monster. Somehow it's also a comedy, think like the host, where like the family dynamic that's going on between kind of the more vigilante group is absolutely hilarious. There's so much comedy packed into this as well. And there's also a lot of politics. I will say like it is a true kind of Asian style epic. It feels very much kind of like some of the more traditional samurai films where there is this very much like a political side to it. So much so that like you know the type of films that Star Wars were birthed out of where it's all these different factions and you know what's going on between them and who's on whose side. But that's that at the core of it. You do have this pretty kick ass monster who has this really sweet origin to the point that when the monster you know when when people started attacking him I was like no, no, don't do he's so sweet. But yeah it was just I had a blast with this one. It's a giant action film like so many crazy action sequences over the top core really cool monster effects. Cool. That's my cue. I'm going to watch it. Yeah, it was a trip. Nice. So that is monstrom and it is currently streaming on shutter. Monstrom. I was going one more. I revisited return a swamp thing just for kicks just because that that we're not going to that's a we're not going to ask you one. The one we're not going to we're reading in a in a thing. Gory that we're not. It was like I want to turn this into like what I'm not swamping to be my James Bond. It's super cool. Super goofy super campy great effects. But in that same vein I rewatch dead heat which is now on Amazon Prime. You might have been on Amazon Prime. That's a fun day. And I love that movie. It's a it's a it's a it gets in. It does its business and it gets out super efficient really funny great action. But basically if you've never heard of dead heat and it seems like a lot of people have never seen this film because I was kind of tweeting out images from it. Basically treat Williams and Joe Piscopo play Los Angeles detectives who are investigating this pharmaceutical company because they're trying to track down the the boss behind a bunch of bank robberies and jewel jewel heists where the people who are performing the heist whenever they encounter cops that can't be killed. So every time the cops try to blow these guys away they're basically you know being shot down and getting back up and doing more shooting. So the whole movie opens with this giant jewel heist where detective mortis and detective bigaloo encounter these guys so they go to the pharmaceutical company they encounter this giant machine that can bring the dead back to life treat Williams winds up being killed and thrown on to this machine and he's brought back to life but he's only got like 12 hours to live. So so you've already got an immediately you got this immediate ticking clock. You've got the fun of watching treat Williams slowly decay throughout the film but you also get the pure enjoyment of a undead treat Williams and show Piscopo who wears incredibly tight shirts and flexes as muscles. Running around Los Angeles streets of Los Angeles taking on bad guys and getting shot a lot. And then you've got some like you know you got Darren McGavin you've got Vincent Price making a cameo it's just it's just like really it's the perfect culmination of over the top 80s action and the kind of kitchen sink mentality of 80s horror it's the perfect marriage of that. It was like the buddy cop movie does a horror movie and it worked really really well. Yeah and great great special effects from you know god I want to say it pulled in guys like Steve Johnson and Tony Gardner and so on and so on. So it's a lot of fun to be right. I was on prime. Check it out dead heat. I don't know why this one never got the love that it does there it was one that never really got a lot of attention. Yeah. It was a pretty big bomb when it came out that's what I mean it's directed by Mark Galblatt who also did the Delflundrigg Punisher right and was on our show. But it's his first movie as a director but he had he edited every amazing movie from the 80s Terminator Cobra I mean if you just get his editing credits it's like he was the guy that put together every action movie the 80s and this was his first chance at directing and I don't know why I think Joe Pisco just left Saturday at live to kick off his movie career and this movie just bombed hard. It just did not do well and then he had kind of bad luck with the Punisher which also didn't really get released here even though in retrospect I actually really like his Punisher but yeah he was on he was on Killer P.A.V. a long long time ago. That was a good one I remember him being a really fun guy just to talk to about movies in general. Well we should bring him back just so Ryan could talk to him specifically about Dead I mean, if there's any vinegar syndrome, Severin, Arrow, if you guys want to do a dead heat special edition, and you need commentary. [LAUGHTER] That feels like a screen factory title, actually. I don't know why. It feels a little bit-- It got-- --feels a little more playful. Yeah. I think they could clean that up a lot. So yeah, those are the only ones I have, but I will give a mad shout out to the what we do in the shadows this week. Oh, my God. Jackie Daytona. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. So good. Take the tooth, put the tooth pick in his mouth. Who is he? Jackie Daytona. Just a human bartender. Serving human-- Thank you. Serving human alcohol beer. What? He's like, I'm just a human guy. But you know what gets me though? He's at the very end of that episode when he walks in. And he's like, I'm home. And what's his face? He's the other vampire. He's like, oh, hey there. And he's like, what? I've been gone forever. He's like, you've been gone for one week fucking guy. That's my-- The episode killed me at the start. Like, I literally spit popcorn out of my mouth the moment where you see the postman walking across the yard. And he just sinks and then pulls out a human arm. I lost my shit. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. Nice old bad being behind. I need to watch. Yes. Oh, yeah. Did you see the Colin Robinson episode yet? That was last week. That was crazy. I mean, it's so amazing how they've like-- the first season I felt surpassed the movie, the second season surpasses the first season and the film. I mean, they just keep raising the bar. Oh my God. The Colin Robinson awkward kiss moment. With the doll? The nudge at all. How do you know you were before that when you-- What are you trying to do? Yeah. Oh my God. We're going to get somebody from that show. That can't be impossible, right? I don't know. We've never tried to get anyone-- I met-- it was great because I had Comic Con last year when we were all social and we can go to parties and stuff. I met that whole gang. They were at a-- I knew someone who knew the guy who plays Colin Robinson. And he was like, do you want to meet the-- What we're doing to show? I was getting-- I'm like, yes, please. And they all came. They were so amazing, so fun, so much fun. Yeah, so did anybody else watch anything? Oh. Before we jump into our night flight. What else? I'm ready to night flight. Yeah, let's do night flight. Let's night flight it. Night flight. OK, guys, our night flight pick for the week is Mad House. I know some of you guys are big fans of this one, so I'll let you guys take it. Ryan, go. [LAUGHTER] I actually love this movie, but I've totally-- It's been like two years since I saw it. My brain-- Oh, no. It's actually-- You, there's twins. There's twins. I don't know why I love that. And that's a mental institution. It's fun. And I remember I bought-- I bought, again, when I buy shit, and seen them. I'm usually pleasantly surprised unless it's played dead. There were enough decent-- there was a substantial amount of twists and turns that I didn't see coming. And it was kind of like, when did this one come out? Was it 80, 81, early 80s? Yeah. Yeah. It just had those dark family secrets. And a killer. And a dog attack scene with the kid at the park. I remember that. And I remember having actually a lot of admiss-- I remember thinking-- I started watching, I remember now, because it was by the guy who did tentacles and beyond the door. And he produced the visitor, the greatest movie ever made. And then it shot in Savannah where I lived for a long time. I remember I always have a list of like, City of the Dead. Living Dead is also partially shot in Savannah. And then I just remember that the second half of it actually is a good horror movie. It's part set of bonkers. But the atmosphere in the house when the sister goes to get the other sister, I remember actually going, oh, this is actually pretty atmospheric and creepy. But it's been a while. It was actually one of my favorites of that year in terms of the releases of like, who put that one out? Was it-- This was an arrow. I remember thinking that was actually what would have been one of my picks of the year for re-releases of films that just kind of was otherwise under the radar. So definitely. Yeah, I need to re-watch this. I haven't seen this a couple of, it's probably been 10 years now. I decided that I was going to watch all the video nasties. And this was on the list as one of the video nasties. And yeah, some of them are super hard to find. Some of them you just don't even really need to watch. There's just the life's too short. But this was one that I was kind of pleasantly surprised by where I was like, you know, I kind of get why it's on the list. It by no means was one of the worst ones by any stretch. It was one of those like, hey, there's actually a really good movie in here. You know, that would be cool as doubling this with Bloodrage because you've got male twins on that one and female twins on this one. And both are always around birthdays instead of, I think that actually would be pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that is Mad Man from-- Yeah, that's how it's house. Mad House, thank you, Mad House. So Mad House is currently on Night Flight. We can send our listeners there at www.nightflightplus.com/shockways. Night Flight Plus is a streaming channel available available on Roku Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, and online. The channel is the only place to watch original episodes of the iconic 80s cult series Night Flight, as well as an eclectic collection of cult films, music documentaries, midnight movies, concert films, and more. All collections include titles from eras, blue underground, severance, something weird, and many more. Night Flight Plus is a treasure chest of weird oddities and gems. So start digging. Subscriptions are just $4.99 a month, $39.99 a year. But Shockwave listeners can say $10 on that annual membership with the promo code, Shockwave's One Word, which drops you down to $250 a month, which is definitely worth it to watch Mad House. Nice. Okay, well, I see that our guest is standing by, so let's cut to a word from our sponsors and we'll be back with Kevin Williams. Tonight's episode of Shockwave is brought to you by Fright Rags. Fright Rags has a brand new collection for the killer clowns from Outer Space featuring all new t-shirts and restocks of their classic socks, all officially licensed and available now at Fright-Rags.com. And Shockwave's listeners can get 10% off when they use the code, Shockwave's 2020. Again, 10% off with the code, Shockwave's 2020 at Fright-Rags.com. 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On each of a suit, the Boulay Brothers welcome listeners to join them as they discuss the latest projects they're working on, share behind the scenes details from their hit show, the Boulay Brothers' Dragula, streaming on Netflix, and more. Okay, we're back and I am thrilled to have Mr. Kevin Williamson on the show today. Kevin, welcome to Shockwave. Well, thank you. I'm happy to be here. Kevin you have been an inspiration. I am gonna keep praise upon you, sir. It turned red in the face, but when I was in when I was in film school, you were the reason why I stuck with horror because when I saw scream on opening night, I said, you know what? There is a way to keep this this this genre alive and fresh and this man is doing it and I want to follow his career path and and yeah, that's all I got man. I just love you. You've kept it alive. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, trying, trying, but no, thanks for thanks for coming on man. There's a lot to catch up on and talk about. You know, I guess that will kind of give you the shock waves treatment. You generally begin with, you know, how how you kind of found your way into horror. What was that what was that gateway? What was that key in for you? What was the was it a magazine? Was it a book? Was it a film? You know, it was a there's a little bit of a totality of things, you know, I'll add it up into this sort of the horror genre. I remember my earliest movies that I saw where like Hush Hush Street Charlotte. I watched like I watched that one night with my mom and just with the covers pulled up over my head because I thought it was so scary and I'd since rewatched it. But I would have to say, you know, the movie that really changed my life was first jaws. You know, I read the book. I couldn't wait for the movie. I was really, really young. I remember I had the book in school. I was in fourth grade or fifth grade and I remember the teacher took it away from me and called my and called my mom and said, this is an appropriate book for him to be reading. And my mom was like, but I gave it to him. You know, I said, I was in advance, you know, it was that kid you read really early and I just read and read. But I stood in line to see the movie, it changed my life. And then a few years later, everyone was talking about this movie called Halloween and how I mean there were news reports about it on the news saying it's just the scariest movie ever made. You know, I guess part of the whole marketing and people were fainting in the aisles and it kind of had that kind of aura surrounding it. And I talked my friend's dad into taking a group of us because it was already and we went to see it. And I've never experienced such an experience like that where people were screaming at the screen and people were so it was so interactive. And it was just my never experienced that. And I just knew that I wanted to do that. And what was it in and what age did it kind of click with you that you could turn this passion for the genre into and to work? Well, I started reading about Spielberg. You know, when I was a Spielberg fanatic and I realized that he started making movies in his backyard and I found this eight millimeter camera that my mom and dad had. And it was still we're still cranked and it still worked. And so I ordered a splice here from the Sierra's Robecatalot. And I started filming my own movies and I filmed a hard movie. Interestingly enough, it was about a fisherman killing all these friends. And it was ugly enough. And because only because I come from a family of fishermen and the slicker was there on the door. And I said, oh, then you could hood him up and all that. So and I pricked and I did a decafitation and I had jello and spaghetti noodles and it was really awesome. And it looked really good. And I had a great time doing it and I just then I got a video camera and then I was the nerdy AB guide school. And so if I filmed all of the football games, I got to you know, have the camera all weekends and do it as my. And I could do it with it when I wanted it and I just started making movies. And did you find that your your classmates was their level of acceptance in terms of this kind of nerdy nerdyness? Did you find you know, a kind of a kinship and other people who found you know, saw your same passion or were you kind of solo in your love for everything? You know, in high school it's kind of the 80s. And I think everybody was sort of, you know, we were wearing bands and we were being all cool. It's with his Pamela Cook County and Goods Creek, you know, it's how cool can you be. And so we, you know, I had a good group of friends and we partied and had a good time and they just thought I was just sort of, you know, a little nerdy that way. I'm just trying to find it. I was just trying to see how close it is to Dawson. That's all. It's what you know, it's interesting. It was very much Dawson in this, and if I went through and walked through the first season, I could say, when that really happened, that was my mom. That was this. That was that. I remember my mom did speak to me for six months because it's something I wrote in one of the episodes. Oh wow. Mom, nobody's going to know. Nobody knew. And, but anyway, that was that that's how personal it was in the first two seasons. And, but by, but anyway, it all worked out. I was, I was a little bit of everybody. You know, I was every time I read a character, I put a little piece of me in all of them so that I can understand them and sort of find my way through those characters, particularly in television. And in Dawson, I was the prankster in AC. I was the film geek with Dawson. I was sort of the loner sad, miss it, of Jan. And I was sort of the tomboy sort of from the wrong side of the creek of Joey. I mean, that's how my family was. You know, my, my background was very much her background. Nice. So yeah. And did you and what was your growing up in the 80s? What was the subgenre of horror that you really gravitated to? Was it, was it indeed slasher movies or were you just kind of relishing the the cornucopia of all the different kind of genres that the 80s had to offer? I did like all the genres. I would see anything horror, but I was a sl- but that was the slasher. Most after Halloween, every slasher movie in the world happened, you know? And I remember I went through a carry phase where after carry, there was all those, I don't really rose or whatever, there's more than after. And I watched a lot of those movies or, you know, the, um, there was that TV movie about with K-Lens, which is the sorority girl. I think Morgan Fairtron was the initiation. Yeah, the initiation. A fair out of Saria. Actually, weirdly enough so that just recently, we're just out of nowhere. Yeah. They were in the phones. I would just, you know, it was that Gargoyle TV movie and the trilogy of Tara, all those things just sort of added up to me just loving this. I love, yeah, so the slasher movies were always sort of my big thing. And the kind of like who done it in nature of it? That's what I always kind of gravitated to. It's just one. I'm just kind of a mask fanatic and just two. I do always love the kind of who done it. Agatha Christie. Yeah. Operator Collin. That's what that was me because I, um, two things. I was freak for reading and I read all the Agatha Christie and I read Ellery Queen also. And I would read all those books that I love mysteries. Also, I would watch at night. I was the guy watching Non-Slanding and Dallas. And all of that soap element, you know, and so combining it all, I just became sort of this part of a lot of probably nonsense. But anyway, I figured out a way to turn it into a job. Yeah. Actually, I wanted to ask about the reading because I read an interview with you earlier today where you were talking about visiting the Poe Museum, which is in my neck at the woods, where I'm from. And that place was so cool when I was a kid. And in the interview, you were talking about reading all of it. Did you read a lot of Poe and other stuff as a kid? Well, I love Poe, but going to that museum really changed, turned me into a fanatic. And I really started researching not just his work, but his life because I thought he had a fascinating life. And, um, but had you, have you been to that museum? Oh, yeah. I was there just two years ago, again. See, yeah, is it still where you can go from room to room and read the reading? Yep. It's all painted on the wall. Now, did you go to his dorm room as well? You can take like a two-hour drive over to Charlottesville and visit his dorm room at UVA, which is pretty cool. I was with my mom and dad. It was a one day. Still, yeah, they still. It's very cool. We're at there some books about that last week in his life. I know, I think Michael Jackson or Stallone or somebody strange, like somebody surprising was obsessed by Poe and they wanted to make a movie about that final week that you can't account for. But there's a couple books speculating. Yeah. I guess that's the mystery of these characters. They leave, you know, if they leave this earth in a mysterious way. Well, he did because he just stumbled and gone the street and someone found him and he was like in a drug influence of something. Well, what a pre-screen cabin. Were there other projects that you were, I just want to kind of ease for the screenwriters out there that are listening in? How did you maintain kind of a work regimen and keep going? Sure, there was a lot of stuff you read written before a screen broke, yeah? Ish. Ish. I used to write short stories. I used to write plays and in college, I wrote this screen as a one-act play and it was just, you know, the Casey character on a phone. It just started to kill her for 45 minutes. And it wasn't great. And then I threw it in a drawer and then I wrote something else. But I used to write plays, I used to write short stories, and there were all horror short stories. Actually, when I went home a couple of years ago, I found them all, I saw a lot of them in a box and I knew they were bad. But, you know, I kept And I also wrote this equal to JAWS in the spiral notebook. [LAUGHTER] Oh, cool. And I reached a pass it out to my friends to read in class and make them check it out. So I know who had it. What was it, Kevin? Give us a peek. What was your take? It was just me and my friends wanted to be each with a sharp coming at us. And we got them. It was just stupid. It was just really stupid. I also wrote a sequel to the towering furnace. I don't know why. Wow. I was that guy. And so I didn't start writing. I then got a scholarship. I built a way really for me to secure college was I got a scholarship in acting, because I was also the guy to rotate play, start in the play, direct in the play, and high school. So I kind of ended up getting a scholarship to go to ECU in Greenville, North Carolina. And I took a play writing class, and I took theater classes, and I was a theater major. And so I kind of got away from writing. And I went into performing. And I was sort of a theater geek and a nerd in the theater department. And I did that for four years. And then only when I got to LA, where I was working as an assistant to a director, did I really try my hand at writing again? And then I got fired from my job, which was kind of the best thing that ever happened to me, which I didn't know at the time. I worked for Paris Park Lane. You worked for Paris TV director? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, anyway, he was really-- And so I worked for him, and then I was-- when you worked at a job too long, and you're not really performing well, and it's time for them to fire you, I was in that place. And I was taking a screenwriting class at UCLA Extension. And I started writing, killing Mrs. Tingle in that class. Oh, well. And then I wrote the class ended, and I met a writing group. The teacher brought me into a writing group. It was Melissa Rosenberg. Oh, well. And Diana Burrata. There's a couple of others. But Ann Lutz-Biro, who's a director now. And so it was the right-- and I finished the stream play in that class with their support. And then I sought out to sell it and get it sold. That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. And then I'm sure your life just got to Topsie Turvy after that. I mean, what was that week after scream came out? What was that vibe? Well, after a screenwriting, that was Tingle. But after-- Oh, that was Tingle you were talking about. God, I got it, I got it. Oh, OK. That was my first script. God, I got it. And I sold it to Interstone. OK. OK. And then I got fired off of it. Did not I get fired off of it? But I guess the thing is, don't they call it when it brings another writer? But I did all my steps. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I got fired from it or not. All I know is that I did my draft. And they said, thank you so much. And then they brought in my Matt Stone and Trey Parker. Wow. What? Oh, my God. Well, Tingle-- I was going to say, Tingle wound up being the feature you directed at post-screen. Was there ever kind of like that itch to direct at all for you? Well, when I did-- yes, absolutely. When I did scream, I sold scream to Dimension. They started making a three-picture deal. With me-- halfway through that process, they asked me to do another thing. Another. I ended up getting this three-picture deal. And I said, well, I'm not sure. I want a direct to. And they said, well, you have to take a director's test. What is the director's test? What is that? No, I did. So I took a director's test. They maybe should have seen. Oh. I shot the bathroom scene from stream. Oh, OK. Yeah. That's cool. It was with Rosemar Gowen and Abino Desa. And I can't remember the third actress. But anyway, I shot that dinner, two girls at the mirror and sitting in the bathroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I shot that scene. So kidding. Wow. And I used to Michael Myers mask bad idea. Which one? Which one did you use, Kevin? So there's so many masks out there. I don't know. I know. I'm interested in this. Yeah, I wanted to jump in and just ask, like, before you sold scream, before that became a feature. And you're trying to get your material out there, which is primarily horror. What was the general response to it kind of in Hollywood at that time? Because people forget that scream revitalized everything. People were very down on horror right before that. Were you having trouble getting it in front of people and getting some sort of reaction? Well, Tingle was the first script that went out on the spec market. And I was with APA at the time. And my agent pitched it as a Heather's type script. It's Heather's. This is Heather's. And that was always a cool word to use back then. Because that movie was so fondly thought of. And it sold to Joe Dante's company with Joe Dante attached to Direct, which, of course, never happened. And then after that, I went on all these meetings around town. I met all these big producers and then nothing happened. I went right back to my life where I just got just enough money to increase my lifestyle. I went from roommates to a one bedroom apartment all to myself. I went from a car that didn't work to a car that did work. And I had a payment. And then I got broke and my overhead was more. So I went broke faster. And I just kept borrowing money from my friends. And it was horrible. I thought I was just going to go nowhere. And then I pulled that one out play out of my drawer. And said, maybe there's a movie here. And I looked at it and I said, oh, yeah. And so I started figuring it all out to me. I worked on an outline and I was desperate. And then I went to Ponce Rays and I three days and just pounded it out. And just flew out of me. And that's pretty much the draft. That's amazing. Yeah. It's never happened that he's seen since. Well, I mean, that's saying I've never heard you. I was just curious about the work of Wes Craven before he was attached to your script. I mean, everyone was aware of him, obviously, with Nightmare and Elm Street. Were you an active fan at that point? Or was he just somebody you knew of because of Nightmare and Elm Street? No, well, I was a big fan of his. Like, if you go back and say, who's my inspiration? I always say John Carpenter and John Hughes. Those were the two. And I kept the two John's together. And that's kind of what I was striving for. But Wes Craven, after Nightmare and Elm Street, was just that movie scared me like to know other movie. I really got terrified. And I saw it in a theater by myself and it was crazy. And it was even scarier. And so when I sold St. which was scary movie at the time, when I sold that, and one of my big, I took all these meetings, and one of them was with Wes Craven's company. And I had lunch with Wes Craven. And that was the first day of my Wes hand Julie Pleg. Was there? Oh, yeah. She was his assistant. And that began my, to this day relationship with Julie Pleg. And so she urged him to have lunch with me. And so I got my lunch. And I was just nervous. And the whole lunch is going through it. And I didn't know what to say. I was like such a nervous wreck. I couldn't even have a conversation with my wife. And Wes was just staring at me like, who are you? And then we went after all these directors. And like, you know, Bob Weinstein was trying to get rid of her dreamiest wrecking. Robert D'Aurel. He Robert didn't want to do it. He wanted to do his own thing. But he kept trying to try it. And we kept trying to get all these people. And at the time, Drew Barrymore read it. And she signed the one to play Sydney. Oh. And so she was Sydney for-- they were like, OK, we got to get a big star. And I think we were trying to get Alicia Silverstone. She was a big star at the time to do the opening scene. And that, none of that happened. And then Drew kind of said, I really, my favorite part of the movie is The Opening Scene. I rather just do that. And so she went into the opening scene and then-- anyway, we circled back around and we went to his Craven. And one day, I just got a call. What about his Craven? And I was like, OK. He's awesome. Yeah. And Wes was coming off of like, what was it, Vampire and Brooklyn was just before that? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that was the one for him. You know, Wes had his ups and downs. But after Vampire and Brooklyn, he needed something good. You know? Yeah. So thinking. And that's why I think where Bob was hesitant to go to him. Interesting. Because his career was like, careers are peaks of value. And so I think he was in a valley at the moment. Yeah. And so I think Bob was a little hesitant, but then he turned around on it and we went. But the thing was, is then we went to Wes and Wes did want to do it. Wes did. Oh, no. And Julie Pett kept working him working. And I didn't know this at the time. But he finally agreed to meet on it. And then he agreed to do it. Wow. So Julie, Julie gets a little bit of kudos for being the champion a little bit, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Julie read it first. Julie said we need to buy this for everybody. Make it hot. Yeah, this is Julie. That's great. That's great. Good for Julie. And then post-screen, obviously, it felt like it was just you were steamrolling along. It was like, what was the scene like for you, Kevin? After screaming had that massive success, I'm sure you were getting a lot of push and pull from dimension wanting to sequel. And then there was, I know, you did last summer. And I'm sure there were other projects. From the moment, the very first thing that happened after I wrote, "Scream" was, everyone was offering me stuff, right? And Mandela came at me with a book. I read it and I didn't have an idea for it. It seemed like it was a young adult novel. It was a very sort of a younger skewed thing. Can I make this in our rated movie? I kept asking questions. Can I have a killer to this? Can I turn this into something else? Do I have to stick to this? No, do whatever you want. And so I could create a fisherman in this small town and I sort of adjusted it somewhat to a slasher film. And then they went back and pitched it and they were like, yeah, and they tried to buy a screen that it was like a bidding war. And they were one of the people who bid on it and they get it. So they wanted to be in business with me thankfully and they offered me money. So I did it and I really needed money. So I was writing that movie before screen was made. I was already writing. I had already finished that movie and had written it. And then I was, while I was on the set of screen and we were filming, the box hit me, the script for the faculty. And it was just another script. And just read, he said, all you have to do is keep the faculty or the aliens. That's all you have to keep. And so, you know, they were pod people in the version and I turned it into parasites. Because I feel like there's only two ways to do aliens. You know, parasites are podients. So I went with the parasites and I thought it was just gross and cool there. And you could rip things up and just get in a part more and stuff. So I went with, and then I was writing the faculty. I was just working. I never stopped, you know, just work, work, work for like five years. And then someone else wanted to buy a screen asking if I had any ideas for a TV show. So it was all happens in time. Wow. Wow. And just for the Halloween files out there, where did Halloween fall into? H2O fall in there. Well, all right. Well, I was filming Dawson's Creek in Wilmington. Yeah. Where I saw it last time I saw it. It was in Wilmington and Steve Miner was shooting the pilot of Dawson's Creek. And he had shot Jamie Lee Curtis in Forever Young, Forever Young with Mel Gibson. And he said, "I'm going to go over and say hi to Jamie if you want to come." And I just went over and she was, you know, back then it was only six sound stages of four. It was in the back, she had this trailer with a play pit and I had a whole yard with kids stuff. And I went over there and played with her and her kid. And I just remember she had all this makeup on because she was bloody and bleeding from that move. She was making virus. Oh, yes. Oh, I don't know what I'm done with something. And that's when I met Jamie Lee Curtis. And we chatted for a while. I just, you know, and then we took a picture together and I blew it up and framed it and put on my wall. And it was awesome. And then I got asked to, I was in the middle of the faculty, I was in the little tingle. And I was in the little Dawson's Creek. And I remember Bob called me up and said, "We need you to come." They hired Steve Minor to direct H2O because Jamie Lee liked him and she was already signed on it. And I said, "No, I can't do it. I'm too tired. I'm too busy." And they go, "You have to threaten me to say, I made you and I'll kill you." Oh, my God. You know, this is Hollywood's red. You have to have a Bob voice. Everybody's got a Bob voice. It's like, "How fucking killing you." And he says, "There's a red dot on your back. You buy a window. There's a red dot on your back." Wow. Oh, my gosh. That would, I would get that one a lot. But, so he said, "He's going to kill you if you didn't come in." And I said, "I'm not going to do it." And then Steve Minor called me and said, "Please, you've got to help. Just rewrite these characters. Just give them voices." And then I was like, "No, no, no, no, no." And then I said, "No." And then they got me. The phone rings. It's Jamie Lee first. And she's like, "Hey, could we just me?" Yeah, I think I really loved it. So, it's amazing. Well, you've definitely, you know, with Dawson's, you've found your stride with television. Where do you feel you're most comfortable? You know, it's weird. I've done so much TV for like the last 12 years of my life. I feel like I've been in this whole mission. And the vampire diaries and the following. Yeah. They just sort of like time just passes before you know it. The years just go by and you realize, "Oh, I haven't made a movie in how many years. And so I kind of, when my deal ended, I decided to go back and write movies." And so, and now here we are. And movies are where we're making movies now. I don't know. I keep getting memos about what we need to do to make movies. But none of those things can happen yet. So yeah, exciting. I know, when are we going to make them? I keep waiting. Well, what's up? You're on your killing/teaching, Mrs. Tingle experience. Can you talk a little bit about that? I mean, in terms of, you know, you got your chance to direct. What were the things you learned out of that experience? What were the challenges? Well, you know, that's so weird. I really, the movie killing Mrs. Tingle is a movie that I really stand behind. And then, Columbine happened. And they said, "This is too violent. It's too, because there's, you know, we killed the teacher." I mean, a lot of things happened. And it was, it was a lot more violent, a lot darker than the movie that it became. And then we went back and reached out the movie and lightened it up. And it became sort of the PG version of, "Then it became teaching Mrs. Tingle." And so it changed a lot of it. And it kind of lost its tone. When it lost its tone, it lost its way. I feel like. And so it was not like the result I wanted when I started out, but it was probably the most fun I had ever had in my life. Because I got to work with Katie and Helen Marin. It was just awesome. That's cool. That's cool. What was it like for you, Kevin? I mean, like, you know, scream, scream change the face of horror. I mean, there are books out there talking about that period of genre where things became very, you know, very meta. And everybody was trying to emulate that style. Where was your headspace at? Where you kind of over it and looking for new ways to innovate the genre? What were you like observing all of this? It's really weird, because you know, hey, you're right. There was this big wave of, you know, meta horror films and the deconstruction of the genre. And I was already trying to think, oh, man, I didn't know that's what I was really doing. I was just writing a movie I wanted to see. And I wanted to fill up the characters who lived in the real world, but it's seen all those movies. And it just makes sense to me. That was just these are kids today. And then everyone started doing those meta movies. I knew I needed to grow as a writer, because at this point I was still a fairly new writer. And I always remembered that even when I was taking acting classes and stuff and having dreams of being an actor, I remember that you just never stopped studying. Never stopped studying. And so you always have to learn. And so I just try to be a student. And I would just keep reading great screenplays and keep reading. And I would just try to figure out where my voice would land, because I had to travel somewhere. It couldn't just stay where it was. And I stumbled along the way, but I still feel like, and sometimes I didn't. So, you know, it's sort of a hidden mis-situation. Did you have any, as I said, do you have any, do you have any favorites that came out of that era in the wake of scream that were, that were not your own? Yeah, any of the neo-slashers that you were kind of like, oh, that wasn't bad. I tried to think urban legend too. I like mine. Okay. I saw urban legend. There's one. I thought that that was sort of, I thought a strong entry. But what else? What are the, I came to remember that was the weather was like I know, I know some are Valentine, urban legend, urban legend to disturbing. I always like cherry falls was around that same time. I liked that one. Yeah, because that was more perverse. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, that one. That one definitely pushed into like the repulsion area a bit that I thought. There were a lot. I wanted to go back briefly, and I'll tread lightly, but in terms of, I find it funny that when you were younger, you wrote sequels to jaws and towering for a known stuff like that. You were thinking about sequels. But because of the speed at which the scream sequels happened in the middle of you being busy with all these other things, I'm just curious, did you, like did you think much about where scream would go when you did the first one? And, and you know, because this was a time period where, you know, now you're in the business writing professionally. And there were things like, oh, somebody said the opening for scream too leaked. Now we got to change it. Like those kind of challenges all of a sudden where now you have obstacles with your writing. What was that like jumping into the scream sequels? Well, when I was, I finished scream and I gave it to my agent to read. And the weekend that I gave it to him to read, I was nervous. I didn't know if he was going to like it. I was freaking out. So I started writing the opening scene to scream too. And then I got the idea of what the movie would be and how we could, you know, turn this into a sequel. And then I also then I got the idea for three. And so I had like a three page document for scream two and a one page synopsis for scream three. And I, and then when he called me and say, love that he wants to go out with it. I sent him the document for two and three. And so what happened was he sent the script to me. in the spec market. He sent it all up to the producers and when it got to the studio level and they started bidding, he sent the two and three documents saying this isn't one of these. It's a trilogy. And so that kind of helped build the sort of, you know, the fever around it and it helped with the bidding work. And so they all got it. And so I had kind of written that beforehand and then during scream, I forget, they free negotiated my deal with scream too. So they wanted me to write it anyway, whether they were going to make it or not, you know. So I got to start writing it right away after the faculty. So that was really, that was a bad year. That was travel. I don't know why I work. I remember blogs that hinted down to Wilmington North Carolina where I should eat Dawson's Creek and they locked me in a room and made me write. Oh my god. Was that a common tactic at the time to sequester the writer? I don't know. They did it to me. But they did. They sent Mary and that lady down. They said, by the way, one of the, one of the guys, I say Hitchbim, they're not. They were just the DPs of the moment. One of them was Andrew Rona. I don't know if you know Andrew. Andrew, who's a dear friend of mine to this day because he's like, I don't know why I'm here. So anyway, that's that's kind of what happened. So I wrote it. It was fun though. That was a fun time and then we shot it right away and scream three. I had wrote well after screaming two, I wrote like this 35 page treatment for a scream and my scream took place in Woodsboro and it was they were making a stab that they were doing in Woodsboro. So the final scene still happened in Matthew Lilith's house. His shoes house and that was sort of my ending and I had different killers. I had different. It was a whole different thing. But once again, it was too boggly, it was really shying away from the teenage killer. Oh interesting. Yeah. He was called by an world. It changed the lots. Yeah. And I had a bunch of them in there. So so that kind of changed and then also I couldn't do it. I was doing my TV show and that's when I kind of put my foot down and said enough, enough. I can't write three movies at a time for you. You know, I'm in post-war movie for you. I'm doing a TV show for you because I by dinner was doing waistlamp and it was just too much. It's like, and you want scream three, you've got to calm down. This is too much. And my band with was going and he got ugly and you know, as it's often does with Bob and lost it. And you know, then he started suing me because I held the rights to scream three. Oh interesting. Yeah. And we're in, yeah, I was going to say we're going to we're going to curse fall into all of that. Yeah, I was curious if that was for Wes or was this something that you wrote separately and how did this come about? But people are constantly wanting another cut of I always see people writing about this. I bring it up today. I bring it up today because yeah, it's going to say today today because the day they were recording his HBO max, you know, announced that they're going to do the Zack Snyder justice league cut. And there was a lot of folks in the horror community that were like release the West Craven Cut of Cursed. Yeah. But there's so many versions. There are the others. There's we I left after the third ratio. But oh my gosh. I didn't did some other movie for him. My ticket out was I promised to write another movie for the guy. And it was oh my god. That movie, if we had made a documentary about the making of that movie, it would have been so awesome because it was it had it was just cursed. It really was. We knew it as we were making it. We just kept saying this movie's cursed. And it all started because Wes was going to direct a movie called Pulse. Yeah. They also yeah. They also made it. And Wes was attached to that movie to direct it. And he had written this script. He was really into it. And then I was I wrote a script about a serial killer werewolf. And it was it was it was about this young girl who was had the gene of a werewolf. And she was in the dance academy at Columbia. And she and she kept it you know, and she kept it inside. She was never she never turned into a wolf. She never fed on humans. She just wanted to dance. And she was a student. And she could dance a little bit higher. She could twirl a little bit better. She was just agile and could dance. And she you know, she kept it all in chat. And then one day a serial killer attacked her. And she clawed him and he turned into a werewolf in New York City and started stalking people in New York City and coming after her because he didn't know what was happening to him. He just knew he was turning into a wolf. Right. And so that was it was kind of scary. It was a little more slashering. And and we never saw a wolf wolf. He just kind of changed his you know internally and became vicious and strong and powerful. And West and that movie Bob Gibson. But no one's a werewolf. Where's the werewolf? I go let's not a werewolf movie. He says yes it is. It's called no. And then so he he decided it needed to be a different movie. And then it all went from did all went to hell. I mean it's from that moment forward the script you know West and well I only do it for sure. No way. Okay. So we had to change the location of Los Angeles. Next thing you know it had to be a real werewolf. Next thing I just just went one bad decision after another. And what was the relationship between you and West like because you two were both in the dimension trenches at this point each probably separately facing your own drama with Bob. Oh my god exactly. And he would play us against each other. Oh and he would call me up and say you got to talk West out of this. He wants to do this and it's really bad. It's really bad. And then I would call West and go okay so Bob called me and told me that I had to talk you out. I mean I was I was we were I mean I'm not gonna do it after West and and West didn't do it to me. West was really lovely to me. So we just navigated it and you know it became just a disaster. And through the years that you try. Yeah we try. Then we then we realized I was just to type us and even Bob would call me up at three in the morning and Dick takes scenes to me and I'm just type of a disaster. Did you just cut that works? Yeah. The four is there one that you're like there's a good movie there. There's a couple of you know it's one of those movies where I can't I don't know if any version really works because I don't know if I ever saw a whole version because we kept throwing them away but I do know there's a lot of great scary sequences in there West it's a really cool stuff. Rit Baker designs and really fun stuff in the very beginning and then that all got thrown out and went into the truly bad CG wolf and it just you know there's some great sequences we had a lot I thought there were some a lot of great moments that got discarded. Wow. And does it say did you did you stay in touch with West all throughout the years? I mean even as you were kind of in yes and no I mean we were after cursed we stayed in touch and then we had dinner we were going to do something with scream 4 came I had an idea for scream 4 so I kind of called him up first and not didn't go to the studio with it and I wanted to make sure he was aboard with it and he was so I had a scream 4 5 and 6. Oh interesting interesting and I pitched that to him and he was like let's do it and so I went back to that's what I went to Bob and so what about this? Yeah and what if you don't mind me asking Kevin I mean like what where did those where did 5 and 6 go I mean like was the experience on 4 just get to they never well yeah this at that point you know God bless Bob Weinstein he gave me my career yeah and so it's really kind of hard for me you know to Nicky talk about yeah I don't want to talk about a bad light that I just know we started having difficulties we didn't see eye to eye creatively and before I was this really young guy who just just did whatever he said because I was just so happy to be working but they reached a point where I thought creatively I don't know if I agree with you I don't think the where will should be dialing the phone and I mean and I mean that was one of the ideas well we should have him dialing the phone I would is he going to get in a time machine first I don't understand where I would be phone from so there's that type of thing and so I kind of we started struggling creatively and I realized oh I don't we're not fit anymore right and so I wrote screen 4 and I really liked the for the version I wrote but they kept giving me notes I ended up writing it 10 times and it became there's a lot of what I love in it that I didn't like but there's a lot of it that I feel like would have like I had a better opening scene I had a better through line for Sydney's character and it led into screen 5 which took us back to college so it was sort of a winged screen too and now they're another embarking on screen 5 with the radio silence team and the sweet and they've got to do it yeah yeah yeah no I'm very excited to see what those guys do with it yeah I want to ask you you know vampire diaries it's really interesting because those books were introduced to me from an ex-girlfriend when I was in college and it was really fun because she got me to read those books so when you read them oh yeah yeah yeah I read those books so when the book so when the series when you when it was now that you were going to be part of the series I was like cat that Kevin that Kevin did it again can't wait to see what he does with it It was between the vampire and the zombie. diaries, you know, following time after time, you know, how, what is it that gets you excited about these shows? What is there something that you're particularly looking for because you know that they're going to be a giant commitment? Yes. Well, they sent me the vampire diaries like a year earlier, as for a movie or something, and it was before it was at the CW. But I was, I just jumped into the vampires without thinking. I was, I was, I had gone through the shorting of that time, my boyfriend had just died and I was like in this very dark depressed, the world's over type state. And I just, you know, and my friends like Julie and my friend, Jim Braslow, she, who's now at Netflix, she came, they took me to lunch and said you have to work, you have to work, you have to work, I have this book. And then I went, okay, I'll only do what Julie does. And so Julie has never done a show before. I think she had done college while I was a little bit, but she had never really created a show. And so we both took the book home and she called me late that night and she goes, what page are you on? It's at 64. Just stop reading. And she goes, I will why? She says, if you keep reading, you're going to say no. I didn't want twilight. And I didn't realize these were the books that she read to write twilight. And I wasn't, anyway, so I didn't read anymore. And I just had Julie fill me in as we went along because I wanted to do dark shadows. Because I used to want to start shadows. Yeah. And so I wanted dark shadows. I just wanted this town of mystic falls to have everything in it. And just so I wanted, you know, I wanted to be, I wanted to be gothic and I wanted to be scary, but I wanted it to be romantic and epic. We kept using the word epic. We wanted to be epic. And we wanted the love story to be epic. And so, and what I didn't realize at the time is I was writing a story about a young girl who died because her parents had died. So I was dealing with death and I was dealing with grief. And I got to write a story about how this, this girl who was dead inside got brought back to life by a dead man. So it was kind of all this cool, you know, I got to work it all out. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's actually this first series of that show was so much fun. Yeah. I'm glass. And in all of that, it sounds like you found a really good creator partner in Julie. She's awesome. I can't speak. Well, I mean, she really keeps the trade moving. And she, you know, she would just allow me to be creative and she could take care of the rest. And then we'd sit in a room and write together when, you know, we just, we just really created like bounce back and forth very well. And so when you find that person, you got to hold on to this, you know, yeah, that's great. That's great. Now you had mentioned, you know, kind of going from film to TV to film again, you know, what are the things that you're kind of playing with? What is that? Where is that kind of seed of excitement coming from for you? Are you actively writing features right now? Is there stuff that you're using in this quarantine time to play around with? Yeah. I've got a couple of, I'm trying to finish with pilot that I just that I've been wanting to get on kind of my hand. And I'm writing a movie that I'm hoping, what I, what I'm really trying to do now is make horror films. I kind of want to, you know, to sort of this Blumhouse model. But then you guys are doing so successfully. And I just would 10% of that, you know, I just want to do one or two movies and maybe champions and young filmmakers and sort of help the help get movies made. And just sort of that's what I like. I'm having fun working with you on talent and sort of developing and creating all this, which I'm sure Ryan you do a lot. And so I'm enjoying, I really enjoy it. So I just want to make a few movies, you know, I'm not, I don't have any big aspirations to kill myself and turn into this machine again. I just want to make a few movies, make good movies, good horror. I do want to contribute to the genre of a little bit more before I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. And any thoughts that maybe maybe play and we're writing another player too? No, I do have a play that one day I'll finish in my retirement, but I don't have any retirement play. Got it. Well, I was going to say, yeah, go ahead, Rob. I was going to say, do you still keep up with everything horror wiser? You're still as big a fan and try to see everything. Yes, I do. I do as a link to filmmakers or movies that last couple of years that really wowed you. Well, I mean, get out. It's like my probably favorite movie of, you know, a lot of the decade. And I do love James Wan. I think he's just brilliant. I think he's awesome. And I think he's really contributed to the genre in a great way. And I also like I loved the invisible man. I thought they did an excellent job with that. For me, that just worked. I just love that film. So, you know, there's a, you know, what I think what Blumhouse is doing is, is like awesome because I feel like they have elevated the genre. I mean, you guys have elevated the genre to a new place and I think that's exciting. And that's I'm actually grateful. Like I go in Netflix and look for all the Blumhouse movies that don't get released. Have you seen Sweetheart yet? Yes, I have. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we just surround ourselves with that make it, you know, with filmmakers and writers and directors that just make us look good. It's all it's all folks like Lee. I mean, it's just a, you know, David Gordon Green and Jordan. Well, now we got a new piece of Lopez. Yeah, I can graph down that. I just saw that in the trades today. Awesome. Is there any horror sub genre you haven't gotten to play with yet that you would? You've done slasher's sort of wearable fanpires. Anything you're itching to play around with? I'd like to successfully do a monster movie. And I, I would like to, for a new monster, maybe not an IP, you know, I'm not the biggest IP guy, however, but I am and I'm not. I really like these original stories, you know, that's what I like. I love that's why I love the interpretation of the visible man so much. And I love the perspective shift that I just thought it was just a beautiful way into a classic story. And it didn't feel it's it didn't feel obligated to marry itself to the original material, you know, but yet and then by pushing away from it and going into the direction in this odd way totally honored. And it was really, I really love that movie. And I don't know, I'd like to, I would like to bring back sort of an adult mystery thriller. I've heard that a lot lately. The idea of kind of rebooting like the 90s, the chic thriller from the 90s because we have like the lifetime stuff now, but like the ones that, you know, kind of bring it up, get name, acting and, and, you know, kind of those nice chic dirt thrillers from the 90s. Yeah, with a big star. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, we talk about the cradle type stuff. We talk a lot, we talk a lot about Pacificites. We just like sit, we go in there every morning, we go, where's our Pacificites? We need a Pacificites. You know, I can't, I was pretty young, but I remember one day, I went to the theaters and I saw, I did a double feature of sleeping with the enemy and the silence of the lambs. Oh, wow. And I like blew my little mind. Like that one, those two movies like together, I was like, oh my god. Yeah, exactly. I felt sleeping with the enemy, the visible man. I mean, there was such a nod to that film in, you know, that's so well done. But um, science of the lambs, that was a screenplay that I kind of, my hands on and I read it over and over and over again just to learn how to write. It was such a beautifully written screenplay. Yeah. Yeah. I still try to do that every once in a while. Remember when I was in film school, it would be like trying to track down the screenplays that you really, I remember like going to my library and pulling out the screenplay for John Carpenter's the thing and just like analyze it because page one was just a breakdown of every character and their traits. And then you got into the script, you know, and I was like, oh, maybe if I have an ensemble cast, that's what I should be doing, you know, but it is definitely encouraged to like kind of go back and read some of your favorite scripts. It's great because I remember reading uh, science of the lambs and reading how she was, you know, Clarice was walking down into the basement with a gun and how tense it was, and so I kind of went back and read that when I was writing oddly enough, you know, Katie Holmes walking through Mrs. Tingles house and looking around with the arrow, you know, I tried to sort of emulate those scares and that tension and I just go, it's the same thing when I'm writing, I put on music that fits the scene I'm writing, you know, and that's all part of my process. And the same thing I read scripts and I read books that are in line with what I'm writing. I'm just putting it in a blue. Yeah, yeah. Um, well Kevin, it's been amazing having you on. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you for having me. I wish I'd been the sooner. And I look forward to hopefully sitting down with you and seeing another maybe Stephen King double feature like we did the Egyptian when it's safe and sound again. Well, I have hard night at my house. So we got to do this. We got to do this. Yes. I wish if it was a quarantine thing ever, ever ends. I'll bring you a dinner. That's right. Yeah. Well, thanks again, Kevin. Um, looking forward to seeing what you do. Uh, once we are all done with this quarantine shit, we're back in production. Um, keep writing and we'll be here to talk next time we want to bring you on. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. Thanks, Kevin. Bye, guys. Fingoria and Blumhouse present Shockwaves. Shockwaves is a member of the Fingoria podcast network, hosted and produced by Rob Galuso, Elric Kane, Ryan Tarrick, and Rebecca McKendry. Sound recording. mixing and editing by earning her Tato. Music by Gregory S. Perkhart, logo art and design by Aaron Crawford. For Fancoria, Dallas, Danyang, Phil Noble Jr., Jessica Safova Mayor, Brandon Wynardy, Natasha Pasetta, and Rob Blues out.