Episode 19: On Fine and Performing Arts

[MUSIC PLAYING] You're listening to Community Crafted Education, where we explore alternatives to conventional K12 education and their potential impacts on society and culture. I'm Eric Wairn, director of the National Hybrid Schools Project. On this episode, we're joined by Darren Lawson from Paradox Communications to talk about the challenges and advantages of fine and performing arts programs in community crafted education models. Darren, it's great to see you. It's great to see you too, Eric. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, so just to set the stage a little bit, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and your work? Sure. I think I've spent my entire career kind of at the intersection of education and consulting and communication and the arts. It's kind of a strange combination of things, but that's kind of where I've lived for 40 years. I'm Dean Emeritus of School of Fine Arts and Communication at a faith-based institution in South Carolina. And something interesting is during my time there, and this is kind of my connection to the home school movement, is 40% of the students in my particular school were home schooled on the secondary level. So it really gave me a very unique perspective on the success of these graduates on the college level. So I did that for many years. I've also directed some big scale operas and musicals. And I worked with designers and directors and actors and a large number of home school students were involved in those productions. And then as you mentioned today, I serve as a fractional communication leader at Fine Arts Consultant for Schools and Businesses and nonprofits. And I just helped there to help them fulfill their cultural mission. I travel to these groups and I often do theater and musical theater master classes. And that has been just a lot of fun. And then more and more working with hybrid schools and home school communities who want their students to be exposed and participants in some really high-level Fine Arts experiences. And then finally, my wife Sarah, she is a distance ed home school teacher and she's done that for nearly 30 years. So we have a great love for homeschool families and the whole movement. So that's a little bit about me. - Yeah, that's great. So you have a ton of experience with fine and performing arts and that's kind of really what I wanted to explore a little bit today. So these groups, if you're gonna run a Fine Arts program, a performing arts program or even a visual arts program at your school, that depends on things like time together, rehearsal schedules, constant, consistent practice, special dedicated facilities don't really hurt. So how have you seen hybrid schools that you've worked with kind of navigate that kind of thing if they're only meeting two days a week? I mean, I assume one way is just to call you, right? - Well, that's one thing that they can do. But I think every different group with which I've worked has a different model, a different set of relationships that they navigate to make it work. So I mentioned the RDS campuses and I've traveled to all of those all over the US. And so one group, they rent a church facility and the church allows them to have their classes and they are and they use their stage. So that's one model. Another of the RDS campuses, they actually rent local community theater spaces and that works great for them. So it really depends on the community that you're in, the set of parents, all sorts of variables. You can imagine in the Atlanta area there are all sorts of possibilities for theaters that they could rent if you're in a more rural area. You may have to be creative and partner with the church. So I've seen them be just as successful no matter what their circumstances are and that's pretty encouraging. - Yeah, so times of factor, what about size, right? So what happens when you're trying to start an orchestra or a choir or a band and you've got 15 kids or 42 kids instead of 500 kids, right? - Yeah, how do you deal with that as a micro school? - Yeah, so don't think the only way we're successful is if we have a 50 member choir, that's just the wrong model for you to hit your wagon too. Rather say, what can we do with the number of students that we have? So I've seen homeschool groups say, we're gonna form a quartet of vocalists and that's what we're gonna make that quartet the very best we can possibly make it. Or you may not want to do a two and a half hour musical, that's just too much for a small group like that. So there are resources out there that allow you to kind of dip your toe into the water at whatever size you are. So maybe instead of doing the full two and a half hour musical, you do a 10 to 20 minute musical and one that uses different age levels and you get those folks involved. So again, the groups that I've been to, whether they are 50 or 350, have figured out a way to make all this work and introduce the kids to the arts. - Yeah, do you think there are any advantages to having a little tiny school or a part time school? - I've seen the case where kids will come to a hybrid school intentionally because they're a really high level performer and they only wanna go to school two days a week so they can leave to do auditions or individual training or whatever it is. - Yeah, yeah. And sometimes artists thrive in that more intimate environment of a smaller school. They may get more individualized attention with their musical studies or their theatrical studies or their art and they wouldn't necessarily get that in a giant co-op or hybrid school. So yeah, I think the intimacy works to our favor in some of those cases. Plus I think like, you know, if you're in a musical group, if you're in a group of 60 member choir versus a quartet, the quartet has to really navigate this because they're a lot more exposed. So they have to up their musicality and at all of that because they could hide in the big group but they can't necessarily hide in that. So from that standpoint, I think it allows students to really enhance their training and their development when they're in a smaller environment like that. - Yeah, we talk sometimes about the benefits of small schools in terms of sports, right? So in a lot of schools, it's good to be small for sports purposes because kids can see the field or see the court who would never see it at a bigger school, right? There are a lot of schools that require fine arts or like choir or something else. You know, my own school does that. Do you think there's a benefit in that? And just like forcing every kid through some kind of performing a visual arts kind of track? - They do. I think, now I went to a traditional Christian school up in North Carolina and we were really small. It was a country school. Well, I was in the play, I was in choir, I was in a yearbook, I played sports. I got to do everything. Whereas I think if I had been at a large school, I probably couldn't have gravitated to all of those things. And I mean, I loved it. And I think home schoolers can go into a smaller environment like that and really thrive because they can say, "Hey, yeah, I wanted to do this and this and this." And even those things teach them valuable life lessons about managing time and just maybe over committing sometimes. You know, I had a couple of semesters where I over committed and I was like, "Wow, I'll never do this again." But that was okay. That was part of the lessons that I was learning in this smaller school. - Yeah. And you're just sort of exposed to things that you didn't know you would want to be exposed to. - Yes. - Exactly, exactly. And I think that's so important for a school. You know, kind of a model that I like to introduce to schools to is start first with exposure. Let's expose our students to the best of the arts. And that exposure may be, hey, let's take a field trip over to here, the local Symphony Play or let's go and see this production at such and such a theater or we may bring an artist to the school so that exposure is so important. But then the next level deeper is participation. And it's like, let's now get all of our students involved in the play or whatever it is that we're doing. Maybe we're doing a choir concert. And then finally, I think it's once you kind of master those two, then you can start pushing it in an outreach manner. and that is to push it out to the town and say, "Hey, parents and neighbors and friends come see this homeschool group and see what they're doing." And let me tell you, the one thing I learned is the homeschool groups are not taking any steps backwards by performing. The groups that I've worked with are doing some top-notch, amazing things in the arts. And there's nothing to be ashamed of, absolutely nothing at all. Yeah, can you think of any really great shows that homeschoolers have done that you've seen? Maybe you don't have to call them out, but a good example of some creative, cool thing that a little tiny school did. Yes, and I think one homeschool group, specifically, one of their graduates left out of the homeschool group and then he went and studied theater. Then he came back in as their theater teacher and just consistently produced these top-notch musicals and plays. And I worked with a number of them, so that's how I know what they were and I'm going to see a number of them. So sure, they're doing some top-notch things. They're really doing things that most of your major public schools and big Christian schools are doing. It's just on a different scale and within the context of that homeschool group, it's really top-notch, top-production values. It's still a lot of do-it-yourself stuff, though. The schools themselves are very do-it-yourself. I have a daughter who studies theater and she was directing a version of the Odyssey. And I remember her coming home from college one time with this pile of spears that she was making in the back of her car. So I think just the do-it-yourself nature of the schools themselves kind of shows up in these productions, too, doesn't it? It does. And I think the most successful schools are ones where they have a very robust parent volunteer system. So the parents are there. You know, you're like, are you doing any of your dads? No carpentry and construction. Could you help us build a set? Mom, is there anybody out there who could maybe do some snacks for the kids during rehearsals that type of thing? So it can work really, really well if you've got the parents involved. And I think already with it being a homeschool situation, you have moms and dads who are already committed to volunteering to the success of their child's education. So those are the ones that I've seen that have been the most successful. Now, there's another group in North Charleston, South Carolina. It's called House Theater. And it's like a separate theater. But they target their productions toward home schoolers. And I've gone down a couple times and interacted with them. They actually offer courses in acting and choir and-- and so the students are kind of working with House Theater, but they're taking courses that are counting toward their high school requirements. But they go so far as to offer courses in costuming, hair and makeup, backstage scene construction, all of that. So it's a group of, I think, about 400 or 500 homeschoolers. And they're also doing some really excellent productions. But the kids, sometimes in the arts, you forget that part of being an artist is not always being on stage. And learn the craft. So I really have liked their model of what they're doing, and just giving the kids the opportunity to take some classes that even traditional Christian schools are not offering. But the homeschoolers are able to take these courses, and then many of them take this into careers into the future. Yeah. So this is a good segue, speaking about careers. We talk a lot about AI in schools lately. And one of the ways that people are-- maybe some good will come out of it. But one of the ways that people who are pushing back against it will be to do things like to turn everything into paper and pencil. So instead of computer stuff, we'll do paper and pencil. A lot of class school schools will have that kind of reaction. But sometimes that reaction leads to-- and overemphasis-- one could argue that it's an overemphasis on humanities to the detriment of math and science, but also to the detriment of things like performing arts. I've done a survey of class school schools even where the preference for visual and performing arts was much lower than I might have expected from a school like that. So I don't know. What do you think of all that? I think there's a real importance and importance to keeping these skills alive. Keeping kids exposed to getting practice and things like oral gastronomy, band painting, drawing, singing, all these kinds of things. So are we in danger of losing some of that stuff? I think all of us are a little nervous about AI and that type of thing. But I don't think AI is ever going to replace the arts in terms of a live performance. I guess you could have one. Well, this is what I mean. This is what I mean, right? I have performances are a way just like blue books or paper and pencil tests of pushing back if you think it's going too far. Sorry to interrupt. No, no, no. I've got some really strong opinions about AI as well. But yeah, I think if you just completely go to pen and pencil kind of approach and you're going to lose something because the skills that your students learn by performing and rehearsing and they're learning life skills of organization, time management, leadership, all of those things are coming through their participation in the arts. So that's why I don't think those can ever go away and you end up with the same product. So if you like the end product, don't change the process that you get there. And if we do everything electronically and automatically, then we're going to endanger the skill sets. And I think our students are still going to need into the future regardless of what AI is doing or not doing. Yeah. For job purposes, but even for the aesthetic and the beauty itself, because if AI has all recycled things that humans have done, I think we'll be increasing value and desire for live singing and live performances and all these kinds of things. We need humans or what's going to keep the cutting edge going. Yes. And I think that's part of being human is creating. And it's not about technology. It's about stretching your own creative muscle to produce something that makes us think about life differently. Challenges us. Now, I've worked with homeschool groups who use AI to generate their poster or their shows. And that's a great way to have AI help. But I don't want it to ever get to the point that we've got a set of computers in front of a set of computers. And they're communicating to each other. I saw a comic one time, and it was a professor lecturing to a huge hall of students. And then the next pain, it was replaced by a couple of real-to-real. This is an old cartoon. But and then the next pain, all of the students were gone. And they were all listening electronically. And then the last pain was the professor. And he was playing a recording of himself to these machines. And I've never kind of forgotten that because of that boy. What a sad day it would be if you are to get to something like that where everything's mediated through the technology. And so anyway, I just don't think it can replace that beautiful artwork that's been created by your student or sung by your student or performed on stage by your student. Yeah, right. So yeah, I would challenge anybody listening to go watch a movie and then the next day go to a live performance someplace and think about the difference in your reaction to those two things. So let's do more practical stuff then. You've seen a lot of these hybrid schools and micro schools around the country. What's the most common mistake you see when schools are trying to build up fine arts programs? I think it would be to think about the scale that you're doing it as somehow unsuccessful. So in other words, we're too small. We can't do this. You need to jump and put your toes in the water at whatever size you are. So don't let that be a deterrent to what you're doing. Now, I will say that it's important that you not bite off more than you can chew. So if you're a home school hybrid school of maybe 50 students, you may not be ready. ready for the full two and a half hour play or musical theater. And that's, that's okay. So choose something that's a little bit more manageable. And I say, look for those productions. Like most of the licensing companies have productions that are, they'll call them kids productions, which are generally gonna be about half an hour long. They have junior productions, which are gonna be an hour long, and then they offer the same production and it's full two and a half hours. So I would say kind of, you know, jump in at wherever you think you can manage it. One of the formula that I use, and this is just to kind of help your folks as they're working through this, for every minute that the production is long, it's gonna need about an hour of rehearsal. Okay. So, so a 60 minute production, let's say you choose a junior version of one of these. 60 minute production is gonna require about 60 hours of rehearsal. And of course, you know, the cast, depending on what the cast size is. So if you're needing to, and for something, just go, are we gonna be able to, if we start here and our productions here, can we get the 60 hours spread through? Now, the thing with hybrid models is, you don't have the luxury of having 50 minutes every day. - It's not gonna be five days a week. - Yeah, exactly. So instead, you maybe say, we're gonna schedule your Monday is our fine arch day. Maybe Tuesday is our academic day. That's how Ardeos is set up. And I think that's very, very effective. So it's very intense on one day per week, rather than spread out. And honestly, you know, when I was in college, I taught, when I taught in college, I taught some 50 minute, three days a week. I taught hour and a half, two days a week. And then I taught one day a week, three hours. I actually preferred the one day a week, three hour, because I got a lot more done, because I wasn't having to start everything up and get everything off the ground. And so I think there's some advantages to schools doing it in a more intensified, focused way, maybe one day per week. But just make sure you can get your rehearsal time in, between the first time you read it and into your first performance. - Yeah, this also feels like a place where you might wanna bring in community arts centers or local colleges. - Yes. - Yes. - Other like maybe local professional artists or alumni maybe that you have to help out. Right? Do you think that these kinds of schools can produce? You know, professional level careers in the arts? - Absolutely. So the, as a D, I was tracking the success of our graduates and I ended up with a spreadsheet of three and a half thousand graduates from the School of Fine Arts and Communication. Now, I did not in the demographics track what type of pre-college school model that they use, but based on our demographics at the time, probably 30 to 40% of the students in my spreadsheet were homeschooled. And I tracked where they went, where they did graduate work, where they were working. And the end result was just a complete amazement at the success of our graduates. You know, a lot of times parents will look at you and go, well, my daughter's interested in the arts and I don't want her to be living in a cardboard box by the highway, you know. And so I was like, well, would you like me to show you examples of graduates who have gone on and have become gainfully employed? So one of the things that I was tracking is the number of conservatories they were going to and the careers, maybe in profession, being a professional musician or a professional artist. And unequivocally, I can say that the arts are a great path forward to a lot of different careers and ranging from professional careers all the way to, you know what, I just want to be a mom and raise my children or a dad and help homeschool my children. And so the range is just unbelievably possible for students who are coming through. And so yeah, no questions for me at all about the ability of hybrid models to produce really top performing artists. - Yeah, great. All right, last question then, Darren, what is the most interesting thing you're working on right now that people involved with hybrid schools and micro schools would like to hear about? - This fractional work that I've been doing is like a new concept and that's really what I've done. So I had a large traditional school in Naples, Florida, contract with me to be their fractional director of fine arts. Well, I'm living in South Carolina still and I just go down periodically. And I am also working with Ardeos. I continue to work with them and just had a conversation the other day about going forward and how I can help them grow what they're doing. So, and I continue, even after leaving the college environment, I continue traveling to groups and doing the master classes. So I'll come in for a day or two. So if anyone's out there and has interest in that, I would be happy to talk with you about what that looks like. I really cater it to whatever your needs are. And I just come in and help. I just want to be a separate set of eyes for you. Sometimes the drama teacher in these homeschools just needs somebody to say, okay, what do you think about this? - Yeah. - I'm happy to do that. And then sometimes they'll say, well, we're gonna run the whole show for you. And we just want you to workshop our kids. And I absolutely love doing that. And that's something I've been doing for 10 years. And I thought might come to an end once I transitioned away, but many of the schools and homeschool groups have said, can you still come and work with us, even though you're not with the college anymore? So those are a few things that I'm working on now and just continue to love to pour back into homeschool groups who are interested in the arts because that's just where my whole life has been. And I'm at a point in my life area where I think it's like, now it's about training the next generation. And I feel like every time I do that, I'm pouring a little bit of love into what they're gonna be doing in their future. That's great. Darren Lawson, thank you so much for your time today. - Absolutely. It was great to be here. Thank you for listening to Community Crafted Education, a podcast hosted by the National Hybrid Schools Project and Kenna Saw State University's Michael J. Cole's College of Business. If you have any questions about the topics we discussed on today's show or want to learn more about what we do, please look up the National Hybrid Schools Project or reach out to us directly at coalscollege.com/hybrid. (upbeat music)