Episode 185: Kindness, empathy and boundaries

What's happening in the K9 industry? For all the latest news, views and expert opinions, stay right here for the K9 paradigm. You'll hear from industry leaders, experts, giants of the industry, learned colleagues, moveers and shakers, and the odd, randy guest. Get the latest insights and expert advice from both here and abroad from the people in the know. Now, here are your hosts, Glenn Cook and Pat Stewart and I'm Lofty Fulton. And I'm out of here. Hey, Glenn. I reckon we have a bit of a showdown, man, you? Really? Yeah. Okay. Really find out who's a better trainer. Oh, now you're fucking throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, haven't you? Yeah. I reckon we get puppies, brothers or something like that, and have a bit of a competition, see who can raise it the best. Okay. So now that you've thrown the gauntlet out there, where are you thinking that we're going to get these magnificent specimens from? I want to get duchies, shepherds. So if we're going to get them, the only place in the world that anybody should be looking to get a German shepherd or a dutch shepherd from is House Amberg Shepherds in Germany. Oh, good call. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I like this. All right. So now that we've got the dogs, yeah. What's the next part of the evolution? Well, the good news is, they can send those shepherds anywhere in the world. Yep. So what about we get one cent here to Australia? Right. You'll train that one. Okay. And I'll get one cent to myself in North America. But we're going to need training equipment to train those dogs. Right. So I guess that I have to go on and talk to the buffet. Yep. So your gear, all your dog training needs, because we'll start fresh. We'll get all new everything. Everything. All your dog training needs will be met by Ainswick dog quit. Other buffet, himself. Yeah. Okay. So I can get myself some mills, some great leads, some collars, all that training devices, treats, balls, whatever I need. Yeah. You'll be able to get that from Ainswick. If you're going to be here in Australia. Well, that means that you have to go up North, further north in North America. Yep. And go and see old mate, muck, the point. Yep. And get everything from camera and the mix. Okay. And on dynamics. Yep. Yep. I'll get the leashes I need, the tugs I need, everything. I think I can even get bitesuits. Everything. Yeah. I can get that from camera and dynamics. Yep. From in North America. Mm-hmm. There is one part of this that is somewhat unfair. Well, you get to hang out with Melanie Benway. Yeah. So I'm actually going to get my dog, I'm not going to do any of the training. Yep. I'm going to get a play and train done where Mel's actually just going to come to my house because I'm going to take that dog to Richmond, Virginia. Yep. Ashton, Virginia as well. Ashton, Virginia. Yep. So the thing, both there is. Yeah. I can be either one of those. Mm-hmm. And I'm just going to go do something else, nine to five. And she'll come into my home, train that dog. While you're sipping catchy lattes. Just gallovanting all over the world. Gallovanting. [LAUGHS] [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome back to the Cano and Paradigm. I'm your host, Patch Stewart. I'm joined in studio today by my co-host, Glenn Cook. And across the table from us is everybody's favorite guest. It's Bertie O'Cherty. Part of the fam. Hi, everybody. How are you? Very well. How can I be not well catching up? Good to be back. Yeah. It's good to have you back. You're always the almost popular guest. I'm pretty sure people want us just to fuck off and it'd be the Bertie show. [LAUGHS] Well, I think I told you that when we put out that little Instagram survey, watch your favorite episode, the most abundant response was anything with Bertie in it. Thank you. So we had random episodes here and there. And I think probably about almost a dozen people, really, in reality, said almost anything with Bertie in it. Thank you. That's really, really kind. Really, really kind. But I do think that people have to understand that the only reason why I'm doing this is because I'm aso-rounded by friends. VD's friends are very hard working and make an amazing podcast. So I'm really grateful that I can be here because there's no chance I will have my own podcast. It does not make my fault. No, thank you. So thank you for crashing and being me part of-- they may be part of your show. Well, that kind of makes me happy, you know, because anytime you've got anything in Port Nashir, you can come on here and share it with us. That's it. You're part of the gang, part of the fam. Well, you are family. And also, I think last time you said you had a million listeners? Almost a million downloads. Like we're so close on the Casper Vett at the moment. I would say probably-- oh, it depends on some episodes really just below the roof off. And some of them get normal subscribers. But I would say it will happen soon. I'm so happy for you. Like congratulations. That's cool. It's so much effort going into it. My husband always listens to the podcast and he's like, yeah, the quality is just really good. Yeah. Shout out to Glenn because when we first started the podcast, I was like, yeah, we'll just do it on our phone. We'll be fine. We'll be like, that'll be totally fine. It's not. I think-- It's studio now. Yeah. And I think what I've definitely learned now the more that I'm getting involved in the digital production side is sound is the hardest part. Like without a doubt, sound is the hardest thing to get right. And so Glenn does an amazing job putting it all together and has essentially become an audio engineer for the benefit of others. Yeah, no. Literally like the other day, I was like kind of looking at, what am I going to do this year? Because COVID and everything always keeps you on your toes. And I had to cancel quite a few things. I quite a few workshops. I'm like, oh, what do I want to do? And I'm like, oh, maybe I should record a meditation. And then I'm like, I can't. And then I make my glen nose out. Yeah. You totally should do that. Oh my god, people would fucking lap that up. You like a guided meditation. Yeah, I just really am on this track at the moment where I feel there's a lot of fear out there, a lot of fear and anxiety. And I'm kind of wishing-- well, that's what I'm creating at the moment is. My web page is launching. I know you think everyone's for staying-- Everybody's waiting patiently. Yeah, I think so. I'm excited. And I want to put in that library common tools that you need to be OK in life and never free. Like I just think they should be there. And if you want to have extra services on top, yeah, you can either collect trash for the patch of mama glow up and get access that way, or you can pay. But I really want that I have-- that I give people access to really good stuff that makes their life better. Because I think we could do better as humankind. I think we should step up. I think if we've got some sort of meditation vocal track coming out, Larry Cron will be first in there. Yeah. [LAUGHTER] Like we'll be first in line to download that. He'll be-- he'll land it up in baby oil, wearing leopard skin. Larry, don't listen. Don't listen, Larry. Larry's looking amazing in the moment. He's all buffed up and he's jacked. Yeah, I was watching a video of him swimming around the pool with one of his dogs. And he looks like a brute. I think Larry was so sweet to me in America. Larry is an actual-- I want to think as well. I really admire about Larry. Is it he's a genuine person through and through? Like there's no potential issues with Larry. He just is who he is. And he doesn't make any apologies for it whatsoever. Like he says the wrong thing. He says the right thing. He was just saying he got a band from Facebook. He went to Facebook, Jail, for calling someone a little bitch and that he'd see him on the field one day. And that's-- But that's the thing I really love about Larry. Is he doesn't fake who he is on social media? Like there is-- That's it. It's just Larry Kron. Larry is Larry Kron. He's a really lovely guy. And I've got a lot of respect for him because he never fakes who he is. He's just Larry Kron. So I know we've got a real topic we want to talk about. But you just reminded me of a funny event in my life. And I'm going to be thinking about this. If I don't tell the story for the whole thing. I'll work out a good-- Get it off your chest. You reminded me then when you said he's going to be where he's leopard print underpants. So a long time ago, we were talking like 20 years ago. I was out. I think we've seen a movie. I was with a friend. And there was like a pop-up at Broadway shopping center here. There was like a pop-up store of men's underwear. And he's like, oh, I need you underwear. I'm going to grab those. And there was some print ones. And he makes this joke about like, oh, look, I'll get some sexy underwear. And the guy behind the counter-- it's like, South America guy goes, did I hear you say you want this sexy underwear? [LAUGHTER] And he looks at him. And he looks at him and he goes, yeah, I do. And he goes, these are not sexy underwears. These are sexy underwears. And he pulls from under the counter. Under the counter underwear. A pair of like silk leopard print men's underpants. And he goes, if it is sexy underpants that you seek, these are them. [LAUGHTER] And so, of course, my friend bought the sexy underpants. And they were, he's like going out underpants. And every time he'd go out every weekend, we were like, young diggers in the army, right? So like, you get dressed up because you leave in the army base, you go out in the town. And he would be like, I have put on my sexy underpants. But just representing the opposite sex, you know, that sex matters. That's not sexy. That is the opposite of sexy. Yes. But it was a very funny joke. We enjoyed it a lot. Everyone listening, don't take fashion advice from right out. Thank you. For the South American man, office-y leopard print underpants, you take them. No, you don't. Hi. Did they become he's lucky underpants? Yeah. They were his like, do you mean going out? Get a superstitious attachment to them? I'd say so. She'd get him on to talk about it. Yeah. I have lucky underpants, though. I get it. Really? All right. I don't think this is appropriate for office. Yeah, OK. That's what I've heard. All right. Enough of the sexy underpants podcast. Hey, booty. Hey, Pat. You got a topic. Yes. OK. Yes, I do have a topic. Do two reason worldwide events. I feel like everyone's-- is tolling on like I can tell in my Facebook feed the messages I'm getting, the emails I'm getting, people are hurting and struggling. You know, there's a lot of fear out there. And it's real fear. It's not imagined fear. You know, people are losing their businesses at the moment. We can't see loved ones because of travel restrictions. And I just thought, what can I do, right? Like I'm a person that when I'm being put under pressure, I do better than I have a plan than when I don't have a plan. And I'm like, wow, what do I want to do? Because I do believe it's so easy. And it's also a bit of an ego trap to go like, oh, I have tools. But then how do you get those tools? How do you make them work? Right? Like you can have awareness around things. But you kind of step up and do something with them. Otherwise you're just giving people words, but nothing to do. And that made me think that I really want to start focusing on giving people strategies and tools how they can help themselves just so that they can cope better. And I tapped into Robert Zipol's kid a little bit again. And even he says, you know, when you're a Miqtala, your fear center is already activated, it's much easier to stay in a fearful state than to come out of it. And I can tell in the community where we are and we're in a beautiful community that's really resilient in the mountains that people are more wary of others. You know, people are snappier, people are more critical. It's just not a nice vibe at the moment. And I wish for us that we can change that, that we can shift it maybe to a bit more of a kind, compassionate, loving space. Because I do think that the world goes through crazy times at the moment and I don't see an end. So we have to do our best individually that we as a group do well. I noticed yesterday I was at the street getting some supplies. There's an IGA up here, which is one of our small chain supermarkets. And when I walked in there, a lady walked towards me and she actually gave me a wide birth and she wasn't the only one like people. You can generally see people are arcing away from each other where they'd usually almost brush shoulders with you in any other normal circumstance. But yeah, the new outbreak and everything like that has really got people wired. However, you kind of understand like any time you put on the news, which people are abundantly flocking to, which is great for the news channels at the moment, it's always stay away from people. And if you get 1.5 meters apart, get the vaccine, do this, do that, be socially responsible, get the jab, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it is arousing people's amigdol. It's red letters on the screen all the time. It's always flashing up. It's basically saying state of emergency, emergency, emergency danger. It is. And there's reality to it. Yeah. Like I'm not here discussing if COVID exists in a no way. Like my family got impacted. So there's reality to that fear. And I'm just saying that we have to learn again to soothe ourselves again, just so that we're not always in this state. Because we have to make good informed decisions here. And it doesn't help anyone if we are all the time driven in fear mode. Does that make or am I the only one thinking about that? No, you see that all the time. And I think that it's like layered stress. It's compounding stress all the time. You see people like, you know, impacted their income or just their day to day. They can't regularly see their support person. You know, and I think a lot of people maybe certainly this is something I've realized in my life is that you don't always necessarily know who your support network is because it might just be happening organically. And you don't think like these are the people that my interactions with these people is what keeps me sane. You don't notice that until it's gone. Then it's, you know, it heavily impacts people. And I think for sure we've definitely seen that in the community. We have. And I believe the interesting thing at the moment is that we have to accept that people have different realities and different views on things. I totally agree with you that a support system is so important. And I think that we can have support system with instying safe at the moment. And I think that's what I'm trying to give people opportunities and tools to stay kind and helpful with each other within safety measures. So for instance, I was really touched by my neighbour the other day. So in amounts, people love being outside. So we are as a community having this underlying consent that it's really important at the moment in lockdown to keep your immune system up. So people start bartering in a COVID safe way. So all of a sudden you have presence in your letter boxes. And my neighbour dropped off two kills of organic lemons and I traded some forage per keytail mushroom with them. And it's just like they're like, Hey, how are you going to keep you walking up to get some fresh air every day? And it's just this positive attitude of, Hey, what do you need anything? And I really like that. And I think we're really lucky in a mountain. So we have that because in the city, I think that might be harder. Yeah. I think within communities, you have it within small communities. And I think you have to have that already for it to last through difficult times. Like that's what I find is when if you're waiting until things go bad and then you're like, Oh, like I need support from people. It's too late at that point. You need to have established that. That's what I think in, especially in the dog training industry, like professional networks and that kind of thing is like by the time you realize you need it, it's too late. You've got to be, you got to be proactive in doing that kind of thing so that when you do need it, it's already there. And it's an established network to fall back on. Resilience is established ideally when you don't need it. Hmm. I think the difficult thing for us at the moment, and I agree with what you just said then, I think the difficult thing for us at the moment is that people feel that other people in the community have become weaponized. And that's the scary thing for them is that you can see people avoiding people like, Oh, you're a potential risk to me and my family. I can't have you near me. Whereas that's not what human beings seek. They don't seek that sort of distance. I mean, we're tribal. There's people that we do want to be around and there's people that we prefer not to be around. However, when you're suspicious all the time, you can see people like looking around more. Some people might not see it, but I see it on a regular basis. I see the way people are stepping away from people when you're at Bunning Store and so forth. It's just different. There's a different feeling in the community. Yet there are still people who basically say, Look, I need a hug. I need close contact with people. I need to still be a human being amongst all this disaster. And they're still taking responsibilities. They're still wearing their mask and hand-leathering up and doing all the stuff that they need to do, but we don't have to live so extreme all the time. And I think we have to understand that there are people in the community that do need us. There's people in the dog training, the community that still need to be, you know, they feel isolated. They feel like they haven't got connection with people that they're unplugged from their dog training matrix, I guess. And that's where I think it becomes a little dangerous for people sometimes. It's massive. And I can see it in my profession like I'm working again. And I know that Zoom is recommended, but not everyone benefits from Zoom. And there's a, like, as a clean-sack, we see a lot of people who really struggle. So yeah, you have to really use to freedom within that space that you have and be safe. And just talk to people what's good for them, what's safe for them and what's the recommendation. But the main goal that I want to talk to everyone about is having a bit of clarity while people react to certain way. I want to give people an understanding why people react differently under pressure, where is this coming from? And I think there's a lot of healing to do for us, for everyone. And healing starts with us as an individual. The more we heal ourselves, the better we are for the greater good. And I thought really hard about it. And I thought, no, we're going to do this properly. So it's maybe a bit of a slow-sash. But I want that you really have ability to understand, hey, this is why this person chose this reaction or subconsciously or this is why they reacted this way. The more you understand it, the more likely this you have kindness. You know, there's this troche running around a community that a psychologist can't get mad at people because we can understand why they act a certain way. And it's true. However, being kind and loving doesn't mean you're a pushover. So having empathy is acknowledging the human in the person in front of you, but having boundaries is acknowledging the human in you. So it has to be that really beautiful dance between setting boundaries and having empathy. And that is part of our teachings in life that we have to master. We'll do an interest to you. Totally. All right. Now we're in my wheelhouse. This is something I want to talk more about. Let's go. Let's go. All right. I want to start with a little metaphor. So metaphor is a little story just so you get the idea because I think that's a nice way to do an intro. Do it. So it is metaphor is from acceptance and commitment therapy and it's designed by Stephen Hayes and have adapted it a little bit, but it was originally from who's Stephen Hayes? Is the founder of acceptance and commitment therapy one of the founders. So the metaphor is called the passengers on the bus. So story time. Imagine your life is like a bus. You are the driver of this bus. From the moment your life begins on the road of life, you begin to pick up passengers. Passengers come from all of our unique life experiences and form constellations of feelings, beliefs, body sensations, impulses and so on. In other words, we can think of passengers as everything that goes on inside us. It's our inner world. The road on the other hand represents the situations and people we encounter, our mission in life, our purpose. So now the question is, how do you keep in charge of your steering wheel? How do you end up where you go? Because the more people hop on your bus? Then what difficulty will be to stay true to your mission? So for instance, you can be on that bus and you maybe have a difficult childhood. So all of a sudden you have passengers in your bus that maybe make it hard for you to trust others or to make it really hard for you to stay connected or feel connected with others to have emotional intimacy with others. So all of a sudden you're driving in this bus of your life and these passengers are constantly talking to you. They're constantly nagging with you. They may be criticised you, they may be thought you, they may be always want you to stay in the same place. They say, "Don't risk anything." And that is in schema therapy what we call coping modes. So coping modes are ways how we react under pressure, how we learn to survive. So when these passengers in your bus are arcing up, when you have these experiences talking to you in your head, you start having coping modes because your needs haven't been met and at that time you made the best out of the situation, you learn how to survive. So throughout your life you constantly having to fight these influences you have in your life and you have to understand that's part of your life journey, how you cope under situations. And this is why you can have twins and they had the same situation, the same exposure, but because of their personality, their genetics they react really differently to the same influence. So I want to give you examples first, what are the core human needs? Because behaviour, if it's like an iceberg, you see the behaviour but underneath the water surface you have to unmet needs that displayed at behaviour, right? So when a person displays an unhelpful or uncomfortable behaviour to you, the behaviour is not necessarily the most valuable information underneath what we have to look at is what needs have not been met that they displayed at behaviour, okay? So I want to show you, I explain to you the needs that we all have and depending on what needs haven't been met or which ones have been violated, it shows up in your behaviour and coping mechanisms. Are you with me still? Yep. Yeah. Alright, so the common needs for humankind for us is we need to feel safe and have stability. If you grew up with a safety and stability haven't been met, you will feel that in your life. That will be constantly something that as soon as a flavour in your life comes up that threatens that, you will feel it. There will be a passenger in your bus in your life going like, "Oh, this is really dangerous." You will be vulnerable to that trigger, to that, we call it a schema life trap. So safety and stability, really important. For instance, that could be natural disasters or neighbourhoods of family or violence in families or just any threat to your wellbeing. The other need is that you have, that you crave for a secure, loving and reliable bond with one or more caregivers. So that you can trust people, that they're stable, that they're safe, that they, that you can count on them. That's really, really important because if that's not being met, relationships will be hard for you as an adult because you will be avoidant in your attachment style or you will feel having a real difficulty with showing emotional intimacy and trusting yourself to that you can manage that and trusting other people. That would show up, for example, if one of your caregivers is not warm or unpredictable or they come and go out of your life to abandon you or it might be violence and abuse. So this is really important to recognize. And again, as soon as you feel like that love, reliable relationship is gone out of your life or this is a topic that you have to work on, you will be highly sensitive in your adult life to those topics. That will really show up. I don't need that a really important art a sense of competence like that you have been taught how to feel like you can do things, you can take charge of things and that you learned autonomy, that you're an individual, that you can hold space, that you can fill up space, that you can learn tasks and do things without having to maybe please others that you just trust yourself, right? Like it's a skill. Another really important thing is that you feel that you have been shown appropriate ways to express your emotions in a way to express your needs so that it was a space where you could say how you felt without being judged or minimized or guilt tripped or that you are in a space where you can talk about your feelings because it's actually a skill to learn to understand what your emotions look like and how to name them. If you really struggled to name your emotions, there's a tool out there called the Reels of Emotions and you can google it in there like a hundred examples. The Reel of Emotions. I will have it all on my web page like if you go to birdieachidi.com and you sign up for myself for library, you get access to a lot of those information for free like there will be a lot of resources up there, you can just google it. So that's really important to know that it was part of your caretaker's job to teach you how to express emotions, how to address your needs and how to have a capillary for it. Another part of really important need is that you learn to be flexible and manage your own emotional behavioural reactions. That you learn to think about yourself, that you learn to read your own body, your own sensations, how it gets expressed when you may be in a situation that is difficult and how that impacts others and how you can look after yourself but still hopefully being in a team player but also learning to have boundaries within that and having empathy. That's that dance, right? So if you don't have that, you might be a people pleaser in adult life or maybe you're super assertive and you're a bit of a monobulli inside. So it's really important there are things that you have to learn as an adult. Another need is that you learn to be playful and creative, that you learn to be really light harder, that you have space and opportunity to be just creative in that moment and just enjoy and embrace it without actually having anything to really achieve or to perform. It's like this unconditional, enjoying being in a moment with creativity and creation. So these are just some of the core needs there more but these are the really important ones. And these things really show up as for you as an adult, it will shape you and I believe and I not just believe I know science knows that too, that in these times where we are so fearful, anything that gets triggered here will press your buttons and you will react. And when you react, those coping modes, we call them in schema therapy maladaptive coping modes, unhelpful coping modes, they can be categorized in three big groups. That could be your overcompensate for your trigger or your surrender, like you just in animal language it will be forning, you know, like you belly flop, like you, like helplessness. Yeah, or your void. So far what I want you to take away from my little theoretical talk is that people who as behavior you see and they display a coping mode that you find difficult to witness, could be because their needs haven't been met or you are struggling with your own world. But very often all we can do is really that we take accountability for our own behavior because most of the time people are just their reaction says more about them than it says about you. Unless this is an ongoing story in your life. Are we having questions so far? No, it all makes sense. It all makes sense. Yeah, totally. I think that you don't want to jump ahead of where you're headed with this, but in every instance those critical needs being met is the key to everything. And more often than not, whenever you see anybody being unkind, it's very rarely because of the actions of the person they're being unkind to. It's usually, well, in my experience and certainly I work fucking hard to try and identify that is that when somebody is being a fucking asshole, it's usually because of some unmet need that they have. And there could be lots of reasons maybe they're trying to fill that need then through their actions or they're trying to take away yours, you know, because they want you to feel the way that they feel. I could be off based totally, but more often than not when I see people, especially in the dog community when people are being unpleasant with each other, it's more often than not in my experience that they are in a place that is super uncomfortable for them and their coping mechanism is rather than trying to get out of that place, they try and pull you into it with them. They be creative. Old. Yeah, misery loves company, you know what I mean? And they try and pull you into it rather than, and I think sometimes, you know, applying sort of the things we know of behavioral science is like you get that learned helplessness where sometimes people can't see a way out of their own misery in spite of you offering it to them when you're like, hey, I know the way out, stop acting that way. And they can't see that, they can't act that way and they need to pull you in as well. And my experiences, like you said in the start, like I try really fucking hard, like for a long time in my life, I really wasn't important to become into anyone. And I have in the last few years radically changed that and really I try with every interaction that I have with people, especially when I comment on anything you're saying to anybody, I always make sure that I'm doing it. or why are you saying that? 'Cause sometimes you have to say mean stuff to people, right? Well, tell people things that I wanna hear is a better thing to say. - I think that's a huge difference. I think that's a huge difference. You don't have to be mean. - Yeah, okay, so you can speak the truth. - Sometimes, especially in, say, as a coach, this is, you know, for me especially, in my day-to-day job, people send me videos, and they have paid me for my opinion. And sometimes my opinion is not what they wanna fucking hear. I usually deliver the compliment sandwich, like I say, "Hey, did this good?" And this part needs work, and then this part is good as well. Like I try to find a way to be heard, and not be destructive, and not have them just turn off to what he's saying. But sometimes I have to deliver bad news to people, right? And I think that I try very hard before I do that, it's to say to myself, like, is there kindness in this? Are you trying to help this person? The negative feedback that you're about to give, is that with the intent to help them get better, or to let them know that they're just doing something wrong? And if I ever feel like I am talking to someone in a way where I just want you to know that you're doing something I don't like, or I think is crap, don't do it. Because it's like, that's not good for me, it's not good for them. But if I am sure, if I'm absolutely sure, the reason I'm giving you this feedback that you're not gonna enjoy hearing, is with kindness from me, then that's when I'm happy to do it. - And I also think timing is such an important tool. Like, you know, when you plan those seats of change and people are they actually receptive. - Timing's always crucial in everything. I mean, as dog trainers, it's one of the preaching points on everything that we do and talk about is timing is not important, it's critical. - It is. - It's such a huge topic, but in the end, very often, you see two egos just talking to each other if both are unaware, right? So there is no growth happening for anyone, we're just defending our egos. And it's so humbling because I'm like, far out, I'm putting so much effort into my own development and just the other day, I just got caught up in the biggest ego-wanking history. (laughing) And I'm like, oh my God, you know, like, it just, we really have to understand that just because we understand doesn't mean that we flawless. We still do that, but what I'm trying to really get across today is really stop before you respond. Have a check in with yourself and just have a look, what do you need to feel safe and heard and listen to? And what does your opposite, like, if you care about that person in front of you, what do they need? 'Cause if they're acting out and you know them quite well and it's unusual for them, something happens for them. And you before mentioned something, we call it an effect bridge. So you can have a reaction to a current trigger and you maybe go like, wow, my reaction is quite disproportionate to the trigger, but that is because you have felt a similar trigger many times before in your past experience, right? So it's an overlay trauma effect that just gets boosted out. So for instance, if someone can't take feedback and they're really hypersensitive to feedback or any pressure, it's probably not, their reaction is not just for that moment. It also goes back, how have they been criticized when they were younger? How have they been criticized when they were vulnerable? Have they ever learned that they actually can have power and grow from this, this is normal part? So we have to really understand when we see people coping and reacting, we don't just only see that moment, we get a history of that topic for them. We see a timeline in their life. - Yeah, totally. That's something in the dog training space, we see a lot is there are a lot of people who, you know, when you put any content out, if anybody knows your name, then they're open to criticism. And like I say, sometimes criticism that comes with kindness is the best. And I really try hard to put myself out for that and receive it with the intent that people give it. But I for sure have, you know, there are people I know who have probably never received kind criticism in the past. And when you give it to them, they can't identify it as that. And then you're at your bumping heads with each other. And what I try to do is put myself in their shoes and say, hey, when someone acts kind of oddly like that, what I do is I think what would it take for me to act that way? And I think like what would have to be the steps that would have put me in that position to react in that way to what I just said? And by doing that, then, yeah, empathy, right? And like empathy doesn't come to me. I had a fucking word. I had a build that. - I know. I was very proud of you. - Like I had, I would say the long period in my life had no capacity to feel it and had to learn how to relearn how to do it. But by putting yourself in their shoes and understanding like, you know, from a very ego centric point and say, for me to act that way, what would the steps have taken for me to give that reaction? And then more often than not, that is what happened to them, right? (laughing) - And that's the crazy thing. Like very often it's actually not so hard to imagine it. - Yeah. - But I think what we have to do is so importantly, and if there's the only thing that you take away from today is when you go into a discussion with someone, maybe don't think about the outcome, but just think about our feelings safe and heard right now. Can we stay in this space where we feel safe and heard so we can keep discussing? - That's hard work. - Well, it's fucking hard work. That's, I lost my, I lost, I had a massive ego tanty on a weekend and I tried really hard. So it's this, sometimes it depends what topics it is, but if it's a topic that steers you inside like one of those passengers that has been following in your life, maybe even over generations in your family history, you will arc up. And the window of tolerance to have to really healthy discussion can be really small. But what you need to do is you maybe need to break off, maybe you need to say I need a cup of tea, maybe I go for a walk, maybe let's do this, 'cause you still can hurt people when you go out of that, right? And I believe we're entering a state right now where we really have to show kindness with each other, because we wanna agree all the time. We have to sometimes just go like we disagree, and that's okay. But I really encourage people that you go like go in with this hate as another human sitting in front of me. They have feelings. If they are a cup, they don't feel safe for her to love. And I'm not talking about hip-hop, I'm talking about feeling safe, having my needs met. So keep that in mind when you engage online on Facebook, keep that in mind when you go shopping, keep that in mind that the energy you put out in the world is being received, you're not invisible. So if you go through the shops and you have a stink cloud around you, notice your stink cloud. We will feel your stink cloud. It's okay to have a stink cloud, but just be aware of it. You're allowed to also have a bed that there's no problem around that. But if you also have a day where you can smile, we will also feel it. So I really encourage people to, if you have a day where you can take power back and you can have a space where you feel like you have love in your life and you can have good mode, Joe. Pass it on. It's needed. I can't recall who I was talking to about this the other day. I just want to quickly circle back to originally when you were talking about a migdala activation by no way claim to be a neurologist or a psychologist or anything like that. But I've taken a fascination about the migdala over the years because it leads. It's fascinating. And the triggers that it leads to certain types of behaviors especially in aggression. And I also see things in myself. Since I've been reading a lot of Sapolsky and even going back to Skinner and his work on talking about neurology and so forth, it's very interesting to see in yourself when you've got a migdala activation. Like who I become when I can feel like I'm not in control of my actions as best as I could be. And I summarise that too. That's my migdala talking. It's part of the year. It's part of the amygdala. But I can see sometimes where sometimes I'll look at people like you're the enemy. And I think that's somebody that I've interacted with over a long periods of time. Why am I seeing them differently all of a sudden? Like what transpired for me to feel this way about this person? And sometimes when you meditate on that and you think back to it, you think there's no reason to really feel like this. They're not really what I've conjured up in my head. But even the aura that you, I'm not making a spiritual, but even the aura that you can see around them, it's red and flamed. You know, like you can feel yourself, I can even feel myself becoming I right now. Like I'm working myself up into a state because I can think back to times where I've seen people and it's like they're trigger clickers. They trigger this emotion in you and suddenly you go, "Pfft, you're different to me today." Like I don't like you and I don't like being around you. Whereas I've learned to control that a little bit more now. There are still people that I don't want to be around. I confess. There are people that I just, I'm happy you do you and I'll be me. But that's not necessarily bad. It's not a bad thing. It's just a boundary. It's best for everybody. It's just best for everybody. But as I said before, I just can't recall the conversation who it was with, but I recall points of it where I was talking about, somebody said to me the other day, a close friend said, "You've been less active on social media." Like especially in the discussion group and so forth. And I said, "Sometimes I just don't for an ego sake. I don't feel like I have to contribute because it's already been well saturated. There's nothing that I really need to say. I've said this before. There are other times where I just think, if I said something now, it would probably be unkind. And it's just not necessary. It's not necessary for me to have input here. There are times where I've seen things, especially with all this COVID stuff going on, that I can feel my fingers reaching for the keyboard. And I'm thinking, what are you doing with it? Like you're not contributing anything positive. right now. Oh, I feel you. I've been there this weekend and in the end, I just. I'm slapping my hands away from the keyboard. Like, I'm literally, I can see it now, whereas before I'd say, no, you need a dose of Glencork today. And I'm thinking, who the fuck are you, idiot? Like, what really is this going to contribute to society today, apart from getting a few people who agree with you and a lot of people who will think you're an absolute wanker? It's just times where you have a little bit of self-control, where you just say, I don't need to today. I really don't need to. There's enough of that already going on. There's enough sinister words being said. There's very little love and very little active contribution to it. I just don't need to be another person who does it. So, sometimes I'm thinking, today is just not a good day to say anything. Maybe just be with yourself and be with your own thoughts. That's so important to be with ourselves because that's the only space where we can heal, right? And I do believe it's so in days where people have more access to social media because they're at home, we're locked down. Yeah. That we are mindful how we put our messages out, that we don't create extra fear, that we don't create extra criticism, that we stay kind to each other and think about other people. Like, I saw the other day a quote and it said, we're not in the same boat, we're in the same storm. Some of us are sitting in a yard, some of us sit in a canoe and some of us are drowning. I saw that. I really like that saying. Yeah, I'm sorry that I forgot who wrote that quote, but I really liked it. But I really encourage us that if you're sitting in a yard, think about the people drowning. If you are in a canoe, think about the people around you. Like, you need to step out of your immediate circle and think a big picture. Not just about yourself, like think a big picture. And I really want to go a little bit more into our coping mechanism so you understand what you do as an individual. And I will have resources over the next couple of weeks up on my webpage too, so you understand your own coping. But you need to understand when you're triggered that you either go into overcompensation, you surrender or you avoid. And you need to learn to identify these things and you so you can heal. Because otherwise you're just perpetuating that scheme and it may be shifts and you go like, oh, I'm getting better. Maybe you don't. Would that be all right? Hear us with them. Boom. All right. So here are ideas how you can overcompensate. Overcompensation is getting triggered when something in your life event is life trap, like a schema or something difficult when you need to have them in mat. Make you cope in a way so you don't have to deal with it. So it doesn't mean that you have dealt with it. You're just kind of taking the focus away. And the way you do it is is for instance that you become obsessional or excessive around it. Like you numb yourself for instance, you could go like, I'm becoming a worker holic. I'm learning so much that I never have to deal with it again. Or you focus on order and structure. Or another way could be that you rebel and you become passive aggressive. Another way could be that you're status seeking or recognition seeking. Like you kind of go like, I want to be heard. And without having much to say, you just want to be heard like you're loud, you're taking up space. You could be dominant or you can assert yourself quite excessively. You kind of control others. You make it really sure that you're in control and empowered a whole time so that you don't have to deal with feeling vulnerable. Or you can be quite hostile and aggressive. Like you bully people a little bit or you defy or you take freedom away from people. So these are ways how you can overcompensate. So I'm an overcontroller. If I like a little I'm creating a podcast around it because I'm scared. You have to learn and go like, well, what do I do when I'm being put under pressure? So I'm the person that then I'd avoid it totally and doesn't put any effort into it or I make a fucking PhD out of it. Jews, I think you're sitting at a table full of those. I know. But it's also society reinforces that one really heavily. Yeah. Right. So there is a liquid scale. Oh what? A liquid scale is a 1 to 10 rating. Okay. Are we having some sort of language problem there? Do you say liquid? Maybe it's like it. I don't know. Like it. No, no, what? How do you spell that? I'm rating scale. L-I-K-L-I-K-E-R-T. Like it. Like it. I've never heard that before. Anyway, a scale of 1 to 10. Oh, yeah. You could just, you know, use a dial up. It's just, it's fluid. Like it's not, yes or no. It has intensity. So if you do that every now and then there's no problem, probably a good business person if you do that. But the idea is you can't be your only coping strategy and also you have to look, do you impact others? So for instance, man I spent in like living with me last night because I was putting my podcast together and he just had his birthday. So I mean, that's not true. Den is very generous. That's probably very. Happy birthday, Den. Yeah. Happy birthday, babe. He's very generous, but I can be really consuming when I'm on to something like I can forget around the world. Like who needs to do washing and dishes? I'm just in my world. So that's really important that you recognize. So overcompensating could order you, for example, ask for reassurance to hold time. Like you always want more. And that is also this people pleasing leads into surrendering. When you kind of give your power away because you always look up to other people to authority, pleasing others, not standing up for it as struggling to hold your fuse and your points, you for instance take everything without any question. Like if someone gives you an order or a direction, you don't think about it. You just take it in. You don't question it. If someone makes you do things that you're maybe not comfortable with, you do it anyway, are you being talked into things that you actually don't want to do it? I don't agree with your values, but you do it anyway simply because you haven't learned to hold your space in discussion or in an argument or you worried about that they guilt-trip you or that they take you freedom or you love their love away. So that would be surrendering. Very important that one. Avoidance is in its word. We avoid what we need to do. That could be that you socially withdraw. That you seek excessive autonomy. Like we see a lot of people who had trauma history that they praised themselves, that they don't need other people. Not a good move. Not a good move. It's hard to trust people again and let them into your life because they're my people who are not trustworthy in your life. Because you haven't learned how to trust people out, but you have to be your social animal. Like we are connected. And I think it's so important that in these times we don't cut people more out of our life. I think there's this big movement at the moment. It's like, "Oh, I've done a line with you. Just let them go." But you also have to learn to fight for something you believe in and coexist. I don't know. It's very lonely at the end of the day. And I'm questioning that my Instagram feed is full with art, set boundaries and let people go. I'm like, "That's true." But you also need to learn how to repair. You need to learn how to apologize. You need to learn to disagree. You need to learn to let someone fly whilst you have a different opinion. Yeah. I think that the magic is finding the boundary on that. It is. It's because I think for sure there's people that I have cut out of my life that I'm just like, "Now fuck you up. If I never see you again, I'm happy." But then there's other people that I'm like, "Hey, I'll be waiting over here, man." Yeah. Right now, we're not a good fit, but I'll always answer the phone when you call. I think finding that right balance is kind of tricky, like knowing who for you is straight toxic. And you're just like, "Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I believe in the idea that there are toxic people, but for you there are. You can be allergic to certain people." Are you triggering each other? Have people attract her people? Yeah. And sometimes the two types of hurt don't agree. I've said it like three episodes in a row now. Birds of a feather flock together. I know this is a really negative statement, but it's an observation that I've had. And I still maintain it. Shit people always find shit people. Like in the dog training industry, the worst in the industry always seem it's like a gravity well where they can't not find each other. It just goes being and they're like magnets to each other. I don't know why or. I know why. I can tell you. Tell me. You recreate your nervous system that you grew up with. So if you asked around and as a kid, you were surrounding an unstable household where there wasn't not much love, you need to wear a mat. That's what your nervous system got used to. That's the temperature. And to feel and to smell of your nervous system that it tries to recreate. And that's so in life, it feels safe when you have to same makeup in other people because that's what you're so shit with home. Yeah. And I can think of the even the people you're thinking of, and I think it ends up being because like people who are dodgy and you know, always looking for way to fuck someone over. They feel safe together because at least don't know what you're up to. Right? You and I have had that conversation before and you just spelled it really well and it made complete sense to me. So they're over controlling, they're over compensating by seeking control. Right? So that's where the compassion should come in. You go like, "Wow, you feel so unsafe that you've rather be with people that may not have the best interest in you but you just feel safe because you know what's good." At least you know. Yeah, it's kind of like the saying of Den of Thieves. Yeah, no, it's exactly it. Right? So it's like, "Well, I know you're going to fuck me at some point, so at least it won't be a shock when it comes." Because we're together fucking other people over. We're ripping people off together. It's going to come as no surprise when it turns out you're ripping me off all along. And so like, I'm going to be okay with that. It's not going to break my heart because I know it's coming. It's exactly it. And it's like, as you say, the reason people find themselves in that position, I think, is because it's happened to them, you know, so much or it's so ingrained in who they are that they're unsafe to be around people who are trustworthy because if it were to come from them, And of course, it could by accident or on purpose, that feeling of betrayal would be so strong that it would be devastating. So they have to stick with people who they know again, and fuck them over because it's like, oh, well, that's just commonplace. So this is all part of the overcomment setting. So what we hear in that scenario that you just said is manipulation, exploitation, being obsessional about who you're led in just to have control and dominance and hostility and aggression. But what we have to understand is behind that, if we strip the human suit down to just their aspects of their self, there's a child that had a shitty upbringing most likely. That's genetics as well. And I'm not saying that you should have so much compassionate. You put yourself in a difficult situation. That's where your boundary kicks in. You have empathy for them, but boundaries for yourself. But if we all would walk through life, and instead of seeing the human suit in front of us, we would just look at, hey, what's their makeup? What's their self look? Like, what's their soul look? You would see a lot of her people. In professions, even psychology, but even professions where people are dealing with very strong aspects of severe mental health, dangerous mental health, where people putting themselves out there and the acts of kindness they do for these people day in, day out, and subjecting themselves to abuse and some really intense times. I've got nothing but pure respect for those people. That is so incredibly difficult and the level of compassion, it reminds me of when I was young, I used to go to church a lot and I had a pastor there called Keith. He was just an incredibly loving and patient, beautiful person. He just had nothing but warmth for human beings all the time. Amazing. Incredible. Those humans stay standing out. I hope that no matter because you just set pastor and I always have to make sure that I come from the right angle. But I think it's really important that we, no matter what you believe in, no matter what you represent in your life, that we, I think we have something that we can connect to and it should be something along the lines of love that we want to bring into this world, whatever you want to call it, whatever flag it flies under. But this is the time we're just talking about those things is not enough. You need to show it. Otherwise, he did. He did. And that's what I was just going to say. He walked that path. He married Neural and I like he was out. He was out. But he's he's a part of our family. He'd be a really, really old guy now. But he walked that path on a daily basis and never, ever presented himself as a perfect person. He made some stuff up and he owned it too. I remember you telling me. Yeah, he owned it. The thing I loved about him and I still love about him is that he's a human being. He never presented himself like I'm different from you or I'm better than you or I'm above you or I'm I'm God's messenger and I can't be approached or brought near. He sat with you like normal person. He was just a good community leader with a big heart that cared about people. He was the right person for the job because there was no I'm going to sit you down and push God down your throat. It was I'm going to listen to you and love you and make it safe. Or make it listen. I put myself out there but when I was a kid I didn't really feel loved in a lot of circles but when I was around people like him I did. He made me feel like I was special and that I mattered. He was one of the few people that I remember sitting with other people and they when you share stories about people like Keith, people in that community felt important and they felt loved. He just came into the room. You know when somebody comes into the room and they brighten the room up, he was that person. He walked into the room and instantly the room glowed because Keith was there and you know like he come over and he he wouldn't shake your hand. He grabbed your hand and he pull you over and he'd say, how are you? Tell me how you are. And he had this big beautiful smile and his eyes just lit up like he was so interested in you. They're the sort of things, Bertie, that I think when you're talking about this subject, I think they're the sort of things that are disappearing from the world a little bit. They're because they're not famous on Instagram. That's right. Like this is not what we're being taught. They're kindness acts to go unnoticed in a big scheme. Yeah, it wasn't about farming likes. It was about this is my purpose in life. This is what I'm here to do is to make your life better. But isn't that all of our purpose that we bring love and light into this world in a genuine way? I think we've lost contact with that. Yeah and this is why I'm here today because I'm sick of it. I'm not a role model. I haven't figured it out. But I just think that we should take a look at ourselves and go like, well, what am I going to stand for? Well, all three of us are messages in some way. That's what we're here to do is to share messages like good, bad and indifferent. I don't think we've ever sat in front of here and professed that we're perfect. To be honest, I don't think we've ever said that to any crowd. We probably get carried away with things sometimes, but I maintained to my staff, my friends, my colleagues, and anybody else in the world who's listening to me talk is that I'm a guy with a pocket full of rocks in the glass house. I'm by no stretch of the imagination a perfect man or a perfect person. But I'm learning on the journey and I'm learning with you guys like some terrific things that I've picked up on life. I've picked them up from you too. You know, like I've sat down and had even this morning Pat and I were having some conversations about things that I was feeling strongly about. You know, and it's good dialogue between us sometimes. It makes me think, I really need to rethink this. This is the importance of having some of these conversations is that we can sit down and think, I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm confused, I'm hurt, I'm wounded. However, I don't need to impulsively act right now. I can think on things a little bit longer. I can turn to other people. There are people in the community who are a little bit wiser than I am right now that can guide me or give me some sage advice or stop me from being my own worst enemy right here. Yes, I think that's the rest of my day is that you know when you are and those overcompensating surrendering of wardens mode that you go like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, nothing grows in these modes. Like they may be working that moment. They give you relief in that moment. But in a long run, not so much. And I really want to ask that we can have to encourage to look at ourselves and go like, okay, I feel better than I react that way. Like I have people like, oh, Betty, you know, always want to say I'm like, yeah, but I also have a tongue of poison at times. I just have to constantly control it and not unleash it. So it's really important that we honor others journey and hour journey, but that we step up. And I think now is a time that we go like, do my actions back up? What I say? What do my actions deliver? What type of person am I? If some of you'll watch me, am I that kind person that I want to be? Or am I just saying I'm a kind person about my actions actually not kind? And if you can't beat what do you need to be kind? Like, clearly, you're not well then like, something's not going well in your life. What do you need to change? What can you do? Tiny, tiny, tiny steps just so that you get into a bit more breathing space. You just reminded me, I saw a meme a while ago that said, my goal in life is to be as good a person as my dog thinks I am. Yeah, it's a great one. Yeah. And yeah, I really want that people, if you're having a rough day and you're listening to this, you're like, wow, this is really hard. Just start small. Just question yourself, what can I, what do I need to do? Is it that I just need a walk today? Is it that I call someone? Is it that I say that I'm not okay? So don't aim for the end picture. Just tiny steps. What about introspection? Like how dangerous can that be to do to handle your own? You mean, you mean, you're just a kind of level gazing? Well, just sort of really understanding yourself because I always feel like that for me has been a huge part of becoming who I am, I suppose, is really and trying to be a good person and trying to be kind means not doing something sometimes. Like take, for example, I don't like to compete with people because I don't like myself in competition. That's one of the reasons why we had a conversation. Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I like I enjoy PSA so much as a dog sport because it's really a competition against the sport rather than the individuals that you were with. Of course, it is against individuals, but much more against the rule book rather than their people with you. But the way my brain works and it's unhealthy is that when I go into competition against a person in anything, I make them a villain and I fucking hate them. And so I don't compete against people and it really has made my life much better. Like to the point where I think I don't know if I've ever spoken about, but like one of my best friends, we had a competition on maps, these stupid fictional points that you get for heart rate and that the loser of over a month who could get the most of them had to get a tattoo that said out and mapped, right? And I'm covered in tattoos and I have, I even have a special spot on my leg where I get stupid tattoos. So getting that tattoo is of no consequence to me or him, right? Like he got the tattoo, I won. He got the tattoo and it was of no consequence. It's funny. It was, it wasn't a real loss. That was near. It was just that I was in competition with someone and I'm unhealthy in competition. Like I don't like myself because the way that I have to win is I make you a villain. I make losing unacceptable to a catastrophic nature and so it's unhealthy. So I don't do it. I don't compete with people and when people want to compete with me, I'm like, "Hey, you can't because I want you to do well, too." Right? Like we can't compete and that's what like I say outwardly. I'm like, "Hey, no, we're not in competition because I want you to do well." And that's what I say. But in reality, I'm like, I don't like myself when I compete against you. But knowing that means I don't do it. So it's fine. But I wonder how much danger there is in sort of deeper introspection when you look at your own, like say unkind actions. and then go like, how did I get to here? Is it possible that people can uncover something catastrophic within themselves? And they should be careful doing that and should do that with someone like you, or what's the rules around that? Or is there a thing that you can uncover and you should then go, oh, I need to stop and get professional help? - So, I'm a fan of having a safety net. Biggest part in cleanse act training is always having a safety net. And I tell you why, if you have been influenced your whole life per certain type of people, introspection will maybe only solidify what you have heard in your life because you haven't been exposed to any alternative views, beliefs, or things. So I know that you're a very curious person too. You read a lot, you listen to a lot. So you constantly have other inputs. So then you do introspection. It's actually not introspection. It is just you solidify what you have learned that week. So for me, I believe that it's really important that people learn to be by themselves. So they notice what's happening, but it's also really important that you kinda have support and help that you just don't make the trenches in your brain deep, but that I already did that you actually get input. It can be a clinical site, it can be a coach, it can be a book. First step is learn to just be by yourself. First step, if you can be by yourself and you noticed with that, that's a great start if you don't wanna seek help. But I'm always a fan, like I just had therapy last week and he opened my eyes to something. I'm like, how to fuck, sorry, but he was a how to fuck moment. Are we still uncovering things? I suppose such hard work. - 'Cause you're a human being. - Yeah, but let me tell you, sometimes make my life not easier. So I believe it's always good to invite other people's views and even if you don't agree with them, like, you know, I challenge my coaches and therapists all the time. I'm a painy ass, but I believe it makes me think things as well and it teaches me as well to hold my boundaries. And I tell most people that I work with, I hope you don't please me in therapy. Your goal here is not pleasing me. Your goal is that you own what you wanna own. - Some people find it hard to sit in that silent time with themselves though, because the inner narrative is quite sadistic. - But then it's important that you notice that and you go like, I wanna change that. - Yes. - But if you're constantly so occupied that you don't notice it and you're just an autopilot, you're fucking asleep in your life. You're not waking up. So even if you go like, I don't like it, but I know that I don't like it and I wanna get help, that was a good move. - Hmm, heavy stuff man. - It was, but I think it's needed. I'm not gonna apologize for it. I think we had a point where we should step up. - So step one. - I agree. - What people have listened to you, they wanna be better, what's step one? - Step one. - Break it down, like make the easiest first step. - First step, make yourself a little promised that you're gonna do something about it. Don't let it go away. Hold yourself accountable. - I like that. And I think that most books that I'm reading that I respect and I like the dialogue of what they're putting out there. And this goes back into dog training as well, but everything projects into this can change, but you have to be part of that change. And it also, you have to work in the small increments. - No one's gonna save you. No one's gonna save you. You gotta save yourself. - Yes, I love that. The point that I really love about it is, all of the experts when you listen to podcasts, read books, dog training, psychology, everything like that, that all suggests to you, this has gotta be done incrementally. There's nothing that's ever going to happen in large chunks. It's gotta happen at the pace that it's meant to happen. - Divine timing is important. But the first step is that you go, like, I'm allowing myself on that journey. I'm gonna keep on that journey and I'm gonna stick to that journey. And that might be a really slow journey. That might be a journey, like to my journey, from my perspective, is highly frustrating because it's kinda slow, but it's okay. It's what I need. But I very often don't know what I need, but the universe sometimes knows what I need, right? But I think the first step is to, like, I wanna change. I'm inviting change into my life and I'm holding myself accountable. Then there are things you can do. But it is that you talk to someone. But are you read a book? But are you listen to a podcast? But are you reach out to someone? Or whether you go onto my webpage, but your sheet of calm, sorry, that's a sleazy advertisement. (laughing) But there, - Did you say it was birdieoshidi.com? - Yes. - How do you spell Oshidi? - I was, oh shit, I can't stop. (laughing) - I got so scared of being sleazy. - Is it birdie with i-e or y? - No, it's birdie with y. - So bi-a-d-y-o-s-h-e-e-d-y. - dot com. - dot com. - birdieoshidi.com. - No, you just dot com. - Yeah, be going global. - Okay, cool. - Yes. - There you go. - So I will over the next couple of weeks put resources in data that I think everyone should have access to to help yourself to have a better life. You can unsubscribe anytime. So you log in with your name and your email address simply because I can also then send you PDFs later on. You can always unfollow, it's all good. But I want to put resources out of that to help me and just comment also that I think everyone should be taught in life just to be able to walk that path. - Yeah, I love it because I feel we're a dog training podcast for the most part, but in our industry, I think that there's some of the nicest people I've ever met and some of the doggies people I've ever met are within this industry. And if we could bring us all the sort of meat in the middle, that would be fantastic. And I think you are the person with the resources to do that. I feel like your progress is usually made by people with two skill sets where you bring one into another. And I think that's what you're doing in the dog training space is coming in with your real human clinical psychology skills and your value that you add to the dog training community is to offer that to the people within that community while understanding their day to day. 'Cause you get that, you understand what a dog trainer goes through day to day and what the industry is. Whereas if you went to a random sock and you were like, well, there's this dog industry that I met and they wouldn't understand what the fuck you're talking about. - Most of some I really enjoy my one-on-one coaching at the moment. I really do. And most of them are dog people and they've had spikes and they're like, they don't get it. So I really enjoy it still because my workshops got canceled. So I'm still taking on people at the moment. - I send colleagues to you because when they come and share things with me and they are lost and confused and so forth, I just said, I'm not the person to speak to, but I have a colleague who can help you and they've come back and said, it's really making massive difference. - Thank you. Yeah, and look, it confidentially is important. So we do make sure that, you know, every-- - I know you would never discuss anything with me about a friend or colleague and it's the same with Narell. Like Narell and you both treat people for a range of different things. Like just because Narell's my wife, wouldn't matter if you two went in, had a consult with her, she would never discuss it with me. Because she knows how important it is that whatever's been spoken about and you do the same, Bertie, I know that the two of you are consummate professionals and it also matters to you that people's confidentiality is locked up and yeah, it's safe. - It's a safe time. - And so it should be. - Yeah, it should be. - Thank you so much for having me and look, if you feel like you want to talk to me about things, send me an email. Sometimes it takes me a while to reply back. But I just want to give everyone, you can do this. Like you can change your life, small and steady. But you can do this, we can step up. - Yeah, I'm on board. (laughing) - I think empathy is the key for a lot of people just understanding how did you get to that point. I can't feel what you feel, but I can at least try and figure out how you got there. - Yeah, theory of mind, which could be in that topic. - I've said this before, I think this helped me out when I was going through some pretty bad and confusing times myself. And I say this to people who I can say be affected by life at times is that there is light at the end of the tunnel, but maybe it's not the direction you're moving in. Sometimes you just have to turn around and go back out and that's where the light is. That worked for me when I was walking into a tunnel that was closed at the other end. I actually had to backtrack and find the light at the other way because where I was going was not going to give me the relief that I needed. So there is light. It's maybe not the direction you think you're heading in. - Yeah, and also sometimes in the darkness when I see ourselves, you know, shadow work, very important. So important, lots of treasures in the dark. So, but Florence Daddy, get help, get support. If you feel like that's hard for you to do, that's an indicator you should work on it. - And be kind. - Yeah, be kind to each other. Question yourself when you say and talk to people, what are you representing? If I don't know, do you look like a kind person? To what's yourself and not as like, I don't mean that yourself sacrifice, you matter yourself, that's not what I mean. - To be honest, it's difficult to be kind all the time that you can try. - You can try and you can have boundaries and say, hey, you can't do right now. It doesn't mean that you have to suffer, that's not what I mean. - Yeah, don't try and be perfect. - No. - In the immortal words of Will Farrell, everybody love everybody. - Yeah, yeah. - Ely, Ely. - Peace out. - Peace out. - Yeah, all right, I'm wrapping it up. Hey, thanks for coming in, thanks for doing it, heavy topic, but we got through it. - You needed it. - That's it for another episode of The Canon Paradigm, as always. If you like what you hear, tell a friend in real life. If you know some fucking asshole, be like, "Hey, listen to these guys talk about not being an asshole." - Yep. - Then they can attack us online. (laughing) - Why don't you say some media? - Yeah, like, rate, share, subscribe, do all of that. If you want to support the show, the best way to do that is to jump into Patreon. We got plenty of content in there and more coming, as well as jump into Teespring and get yourself some cool merch, Rep Show. Doing all that helps us put the show together and keeps it taking forward. - And if you're on a facility, there's a couple of people that are getting capustries, they've reached out to us. (laughing) They've got warehouses and sheds and training centers. I know a couple of people said, "Oh, I've got a little room inside." inside the house, but it's kind of to spread the word. (laughing) I'm gonna be real here. There's selfish mojito behind this, but also, but also, we're giving it to you, so. (laughing) So some people have responded and thank you, I really appreciate it. - Yeah. - It was cracking me up, look at it, some of those posts, people were like, "Oh, put it in the spare room." - Yeah, see, yes. - Do it! - Yeah, well, I'm putting you spare rooms, spread the love, do whatever you can. Anyway, Teespring, well, I said that, yeah. And if you wanna get in contact with us, come up into the Facebook group. Like I said, there's plenty going on in there. I'm not very active in Facebook at the moment, but tag me if you want me to see something, as well as if you've got something specific to tell a shoe, it's an email, we are info at caniparadime.com, or you can get in touch with us individually. That's probably a better way if you've got something specific you wanna pass on to one of us. That's it, goodbye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)