Episode 180: Claire and Natasha Peernock | A Planned Murder

[Muutko] Mie sinut pitää liikkeessä. Autovakutus Fenniaista. Nyt kaskoista -20 prosenttia. Tutustuttaa riookseen Fennia-pistevi kautta autovakutus. Tulevaisuute siihen Fennia. Tämä on seuraava, että se on todella suurin. Ja se on seuraava, mutta ei ole koko ajan. Tämä on hyvä idea, että se on tosi. John, mitä on jotain käsityt? Ofkos! Se on seuraavaksi. Tämä on seuraavaksi, että se on tosi. Anttiin Flaccoa's' book "Checklist for Murder", koko ajan liikkeessä. Flacco on seuraava, että se on hyvä idea, että tämä on seuraava, että se on todella suurin. Ja se on seuraava, että seuraava, että seuraavaksi, että seuraava, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi. Tässä on seuraavaksi. Tämä on seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, että seuraavaksi, Jos 4 a.m. 20. 1987, 1987. 7. 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Sanzi on pepper권 ei siis his interviewing ja p earliestseet awareoban inspiringyinyhtiin Tämä oli evaluations, Lestimme repeatinguriikan, että se m jaws on Your Letsti jo Pystaa ja Nandalis On・・・ Jos n 있는데 vagyko ilmeisesti koeli medication, "just by the underpass of the golden state freeway" that people normally didn't travel. The "responders" would have been there sooner, but that step moving forward to the wrong Sandfernando road, - which I don't know why you could call some "a road´ " double the name. There are a lot of names out there, so. - Hey, that's actually crazy, that they would do that. I guess because they run a Jason, but it's still odd. So the description of the scene, as given by first responders, is going to become tremendously important, moving forward in the investigation. One of the responders rushed to help the older of the two women, while the others at the scene went to try and gain access to the second crash victim. The responder at the scene who was working on the driver, explained that the woman was on the floor of the driver's side, with her back propped up against the seat, and her head slumped to the side. Her knees were up and stuck beneath the dashboard, which was missing its underside, as if someone had been doing work to the vehicle. Her left arm was slumped out of the car, and this was most likely from the passer-by, having tried to pull the woman from the wreckage. But all of that was the least of the paramedics worries. His first thing that he wanted to tackle was the fact that his victim had a serious head injury, which exposed large portions of brain matter, just above her eyes. His second concern was all the blood that she must have lost in the time between the accident and the moment that he arrived. The paramedics at the scene also assessed their surroundings, and it made them question what they were dealing with, and increase their sense of urgency. Paramedics have a tricky job to do, because they have to assess their patients and the scene. They have to save lives, but sometimes they also have to help to preserve crime scenes, and sometimes those two tasks just can't be done simultaneously. So here the paramedic noted that his victims' vitals were not good, and 10 minutes after arriving at the scene, he had to announce that the driver's side victim was deceased. While checking those vitals, he saw that there was a thin leather strap, several feet in length that had been nodded at both ends across the victim's face. But as he had been assessing her, and his partners were working to free the other victim, he noted something else, a strong smell of gas. Now this is not something that's unusual for crash scenes, but in this case it was an odor that was overwhelming, and more than is usually typically smelled at a crash scene. He noticed then that there were puddles of gasoline on the floor of the back seat of the vehicle. This could indicate a gas leak, so it was something that made him, as I said before, pick up the pace. In addition to that, the victim was deemed deceased. He noticed more curious things about the scene. Blood had been spattered across the inside of the windshield, and the gear shift. However, the interior of the vehicle showed no signs of damage whatsoever. The victim had severe head injuries and facial wounds, and when he had seen victims with that much injury in the past, the car always showed signs of damage where the victim would have made impact with the vehicle. But here everything was completely normal. - That's strange. See, it's good that we have his account, this person's account because noticing that there's gas in the car like that, I understand that could be a leak, but I feel like that in itself is strange because the gas tank is separate from the structure of the frame of the car, meaning if you crack the tank, it would just leak out onto the ground and around the car, not inside the car on the floor. - Right. - That would indicate to me that there's some weird foul play here of someone trying to douse the inside of the car with gasoline. - Yeah. - And you hit the nail on the head. - That's exactly what's going on right now with this. So I don't know everything, but that right there is a red flag as far as the gas tank. - Right, it's looking like a bit of a setup. And the fact that there is blood spatter. So it does look like the victim was hit within the car, but didn't hit any specific areas of the car because the car itself, the interior of it, did not sustain a damage that would have caused the injury that the woman, on the driver's side had. - I see. - These injuries were so bad that the first responder was unable to even roughly estimate the age of the woman. And it seemed like he was dealing with more of a crime scene than a car accident. As he had been working, the paramedic made a note that the victim's clothes had been wet. He had found a bottle of alcohol on the floor of the driver's side. Maybe at first he thought the clothes were wet from the spilling of the alcohol or the breaking of the bottle. However, the bottle was closed and only partially emptied. And the victims closed did not smell of alcohol, but they smelled like gasoline. So as you said, these two victims had been doused in gasoline. That's crazy. Something odd happened here. This was not a car accident. The women's purses were found in the vehicle, and it was discovered that their names were Claire and Natasha Peernauk. Although there had been no luck in saving the woman on the driver's side, the girl on the passenger side was showing signs of life. The victim on this side had been found also in a pool of gasoline on the floor of the passenger side. They knew they had to work to free her from the car, and they had to get her to safety to work on her there. The paramedics were all warned by the passerby who had first come upon the wreck that there was some kind of smoke coming from the bottom of the car and that they should watch out. And this is something that's going to especially worry them because they know about the amount of gasoline that is in the car. Yeah, I mean, you're dealing with a lot of variables here and a lot of things could be happening. And like you said, it's hard to take care of the people that are either hanging on by a thread or pronounced dead at the scene. And then also you're trying to protect that crime scene. And now you have all these other things happening. That's rough. Right. And then of course, saving the life of a victim takes precedent over the preservation of a crime scene, but it's hard here because on one hand, they have one victim who has passed and then another victim who they're fighting for her life. And it's hard. You're not going to be able to preserve that crime scene. And unfortunately, sometimes crime scenes are ruined because of that. But those paramedics did the best to try and save that person's life, which is more important. 100%. Understanding that there was a tremendous amount of gas in the car, the first responders were worried. A paramedic got beneath the car and found out what the source of the smoking was. Don't tell me it's a body. No, not a body. You've heard too many stories. You're right. So to his surprise, the smoke was coming from what is best described as a wick that hung from the undercarriage of the car right below the gas tank. A wick? Yeah. Like a candle wick. Like it, but it was a rope. Someone had lit this wick, but it appeared to have gone out before it could reach the gas tank. Oh. Someone was trying to set this car on fire. Yeah. This has got extremely interesting now because we're not just dealing with some kind of crash or like an incident involving a few people. Like we're talking about somebody wanting somebody dead here. Well, and then the extensive set up. Yes. The paramedics called for more backup and the fire department showed up just in case things did get out of hand there. Eventually, they were able to get the second victim out of the car and loaded onto a stretcher. She had a lot of long hair, so it was hard to tell how extensive her head trauma was. But there was brain matter found on her clothing. So the paramedics were unsure if this brain matter had come from herself or the victim that had been sitting next to her, which they will find out was her mother. The younger victim was rushed to the Holy Cross hospital. As she was transported to the hospital, she was incoherent. But the paramedics stated that her breath smelled of alcohol. And her disorientation was beyond that of just intoxication. And that was most likely the result of a traumatic brain injury. They were unable to get her name or any information. Luckily she reached the hospital and the paramedics entrusted her with the emergency room doctors and nurses. Back at the scene, detectives and arson investigators worked the scene. A single brown work love was found next to their victim on the driver's side, next to the open and partially empty bottle of Seagram 7. The investigators, same as the paramedics, found it odd that the interior of the car did not have more damage. In the trunk of the car, they found a gas can, scraps of paper, rags, and a wooden stick. It seemed as if they had all been burned away. They were warmed to the touch. Underneath the car, the rope or wick as they referred to it as, was near the gas tank and was wrapped around a type of metal that was sharpened at the end and was pointed near the gas tank. Most likely in hopes that as the wick burned, the metal would puncture the tank, creating a larger explosion. That takes some engineering. Not everybody knows about that. They used the pointy parts to pierce the tank just enough to where it would actually leak out onto the metal onto the rope and then the rope would burn. Then it would ignite. The whole undercarriage of the car, obviously, normal car stuff was not new, but the screw that held the metal and this rope to the undercarriage of the car was a brand new screw. This is something that had just been done to the vehicle. That's very interesting. Also, I want to point out something, the contents of the trunk. I actually feel like that's also something that could have lit up the car. When you said a stick, rags, and a gas. I was thinking maybe they tried at first what if we used the wooden stick to shove a rag down the fuel cap, where the cap would go. Then shove it in there and then light it. What I'm saying. What they were thinking was that someone had planned this whole thing and had lit the wick in hopes that that would initiate an explosion versus metal with the car after the fact. They were trying to make it look like the car just had a gas leak and it exploded. They didn't want it to look tampered with. No, no, no, I completely understand. I'm just thinking maybe that had, maybe they brought it or something and then chose to just leave it in there and it would burn anyway. Maybe it was an afterthought kind of thing. Maybe we'll set it up this way. Maybe it was a plan B potentially. Maybe. Then think about it. Who cares about the contents of the trunk because the car will burn. Maybe I'm just trying to come up with a few things because that's an odd thing to have it a trunk, a stick and rags and a can. Well, I think it's just very flammable stuff. Right. You shouldn't have that in there. No, you should not. I'm just trying to understand the contents so what it can be used for. But anyway, right. Well, there had been no rupture to the tank. Someone had to have poured the gas over the women in the car. There was no excuse for there to be gasoline in the car except for that someone manually spilled it into the car and specifically onto the women because their clothes were soaked in gasoline. Someone had tried to ensure that this car exploded, but they had failed. OK, what we're going to do now is take a break to talk about today's sponsor. OK, let's get back to the show. So in order for me to answer the question of who did it, we need to go back to 1966. 29-year-old Robert Peer knock attended a pool party in the San Fernando Valley. There he became smitten with a 24-year-old woman named Claire Lawrence. Claire was a visiting citizen of French Quebec. She too was taken with Robert. She told those that she was with that he was an exciting American man. His charisma and all the attention he showed her certainly won her over and she allowed him to sweep her off her feet. The couple were married shortly after their romance began. They bought a house in Santa Clarita and the neighbors would always comment about how obvious it was that the couple loved each other. They were always hugging and kissing. Two years after they were married, they had a daughter named Natasha. And these are the two women that were in the car accident. They were a very happy family of three. Natasha was a daddy's girl and Robert loved to do it on her. Financially things were also very good. Robert had landed a job with the California Department of Water Resources. And for a while, life was perfect for the Peer knock family. Until the day that Robert came across some damning documents at his job. A discovery that would alter the course of the family's trajectory. One day at work, he found information that showed that there had been bid rigging for state contracts. - Ooh, okay. - So if you don't know what that means, that means that state jobs were awarded to companies, not unmarried or efficiency, or their projected cost of the project, but basically just who knew people at the California Department of Water Resources? And this is a big deal because the taxpayers are the ones who pay for this project. When Robert found this out, he felt it was his moral obligation to come forward with this information, because it was unfair not just to the other contractors, but also the people of California. He became a whistleblower, and that can be dangerous. - I think I know where this is going, or the potentiality of it, but yeah. I mean, if they kill these people, and then try to set this car on fire, are they trying to send a message like, "Hey, you kind of are poking the bear "and you're messing up our money flow here?" Because I mean, that is very reminiscent of what took place in the construction industry during the '60s, '70s, '80s. - And that's exactly what's happening here. - Yeah, so, ah, okay, that's bad. It's great to have those moral feelings, but I guess during this time, maybe not so much, I don't know. - Well, this is 1986. Just years before the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 would take effect. Meaning, Robert, incoming forward with his information was not protected in any way, and could suffer dire consequences both professionally and personally, like you said. But despite all the risk, Robert Peer Knock goes on, what some described as a crusade, to take down the corruption he discovered. So it's not just him saying, "Hey, I found out about this bid rigging, "like he's going all out to take down "all the corruption that he finds." - On his own. - On his own. And this certainly puts a big target on him. - Yeah. - After exposing the information that Robert found, things got difficult for him at work. He got into altercations with people, people of whom he had told on, destroying their reputations, and in some cases it was founded, and in some cases they were just involved with people who were involved in bad things. It was also a common occurrence for Robert to leave work and find that his car had been vandalized. It was very difficult for him at work. But none of this stopped him, rather it only strengthened his resolve. He felt if everyone was pushing back this hard, there had to be something that they were hiding. So he decided that he was going to begin working on, a tell all men of Festo, that would expose what he believed was decades of corruption that went beyond just that of the state of California, but into other states and into federal agencies. - Wow. Okay. This guy is taking on a massive undertaking, right? - Oh yeah. - Like, I mean, this is wild. But I feel like that is one of the scariest things to do because you have no protection. You don't know who you're going to piss off. And I feel like you should probably formulate a plan of what you might want to say or do or are you going to move maybe? I don't know. A lot of things to consider, right? - Well, who can you ask to protect you that people you're trying to take down? I mean. - Well, I think there'll be less inclined to now. - Right. So everyone who worked with Robert during this time stated that no matter the situation, even if it was just coffee or water cooler talk, as people say, he was always taking copious notes and making lists of things that he had to research or do. It was almost like he stopped working and this became all that he did. He really had hundreds of pages of documents of just him taking notes. Now, as you can imagine, not really a popular guy around the office, but is his paranoia real? Well, I think that when you're dealing with anything like this, 'cause now this is starting to sound like him trying to figure out a conspiracy theory or if there is one or not, right? - Oh yeah. - Okay, so I think that the best way to tackle a conspiracy theory is just to, right off the top that there's always a small amount of truth in every conspiracy, right? I think that's the best way to start it. So there-- - 'Cause he did find the bid rigging. - Correct. - So that could be the specker or like a little ounce of truth. Now the rest is it just a weird coincidence or is it just like weird things that you're trying to make fit? You know, like these are all the things you have to consider but I believe truthfully in every conspiracy theory, there is a little thread of truth of some kind. - And we know that there is in this case because he did find that information. - Sure. - Robert had been working diligently on his expose but he did worry about the danger that could befall his family. He talked about it often, how he worried not really for himself but for his wife and daughter. His fears most definitely became a reality in the early morning hours of July 22nd. It seemed as if tragedy had struck and based on the crime scene, it looked a lot more like murder than it did a car accident. Claire had been declared dead at the scene and 17 year old Natasha clung to life. After 20 hours during which she went through surgery, sedation and sleep, the girl finally awoke. Detectives hoped that she would have answers for them about what had happened. Up until that point, the detectives knew the following. The massive head injuries sustained by Claire seemed to be from blunt force trauma. Skull and brain matter were all over the car and her daughter. However, there was no trauma point within the vehicle. The windshield had not been broken so she could not have crashed into it and everything else in the interior of the car was totally fine except for blood. After an autopsy, it was confirmed that the blunt force injuries had not been sustained in a car. The injuries to her head were consistent with that of a tire iron. So whoever did this, beat the woman with a tire iron, stage the crash, poured gasoline everywhere and essentially lit a wick that would, if their plan worked, ignite the gas tank. And later through the surgeries that Natasha goes through, she also was beaten with a tire iron. - I mean, that's pretty intense and that's the thing. It seems like meticulous but just not enough. Like the attention to detail wasn't necessarily there 100%. So I'm thinking that they had to have come across these two victims and maybe somebody saw whether it be like a kidnapping kind of thing or maybe saw the actions taking place and because they had to have been put in the car at the end of whatever's taking place here. To go what I'm saying, I mean, this is just a theory of mine. If those injuries were not sustained from a car accident, then they were beaten elsewhere, which maybe someone saw it or something. - Well, it appears that they were beaten in the car because of the blood spatter within the vehicle. - So they might have been taken. I don't know. I'm just trying to figure it out 'cause that doesn't make any sense. - I'm just laying out the fact. - No, I got you. Sorry, you know me. I hear theories. I'm going in all in, you know? - It also appeared after further analysis of the vehicle that the car had been rigged. So it would travel straight down the San Fernando road which would have made the two women if put in the car, like they're in the car after they had been beaten, right? That was where they were beaten. Then the car was rigged to go completely down the road and hit into a concrete wall after the intersection with Tuxford Street. The crash would have triggered the sharp metal piece to puncture the gas tank and then the WIC would have made it explode. - Oh. - So this was a very meticulously planned actually. - Yeah. - But the plan had not worked because something caused the vehicle to veer to the right while traveling down the road. And instead of the car hitting a wall after more considerable acceleration, the car actually slowed down, veered to the right and hit a telephone pole at a slower speed, causing a lot less damage, not puncturing the tank and causing the WIC to burn out. Leaving behind all the killer's sloppy evidence. - This is crazy actually. - I know. - Oh, wow. But that also indicates that that can be the first time. See, like when you are explaining more into detail now, I can see how this has got to be somebody that has done it before because the art of me making that happen in puncture on impact, that is someone that has done it before this time it just wasn't successful. - Yeah. - But it's a wild thing. - Yeah, but it's definitely experience. Now when you said that it was rigged to go shriek, are you just talking about like a piece of stick or something in a rock on the pedal or more mechanical? - I don't know. I believe it was more mechanical. They did say that the protective covering, I guess, you could say of the dashboard beneath the steering wheel had been removed. So I'm assuming that mechanically the car had been tampered with to be going forward. - Okay, I have reason why I say all that. - And it's an old 71, so I feel like it'd be a lot easier to do than today's cars, you know? - I'm sure, yeah. I'm just saying that because I know with so many movies out there and also like factual things as well, like the mob had people who were like rigors and fixers. - No, I'm just kidding. They were known for being mechanically inclined, maybe even coming from a mechanic background, to rig up cars, to do things, whether it be bombs or in this case, puncturing a tank to cause a fire. - Right, so they can look like an accident. - Correct. - In the rigors and fixers, that's kind of-- - Interesting, that's a fun fact. Well, another part of the plan was the alcohol. At the hospital, Natasha's blood was tested. And during the autopsy, Claire's was as well. And both women had very high blood alcohol levels. So if the plan would have worked, their bodies would have been badly burnt, but they still would have been able to test for alcohol and it would have been very high in their system. And this all would have just looked like some tragic DUI accident. But of course, it did not work. Detectives were wondering who would go to such trouble to stage an accident like this. It appeared to be someone who had some level of criminal sophistication and someone who would want these women dead. They really needed Natasha to wake. But after she did wake, those 20 hours after her ordeal being brought to the hospital, they were hopeful, but the doctors said like, listen, she suffered some horrific brain injuries here. She might not even remember what happened. So don't be too hopeful. And we also want to give her a little bit more time to recover. We don't want to stress her out because she just went through brain surgery. Yeah. So the doctors are like, you got to give her some time. So they, yeah, and it's smart and they care about the victim. And of course, the detectives do too. So they continue on with other parts of their investigation. They looked into the family and discovered that Robert Pearnock, the father and husband of their two victims, had been a whistleblower against the state of California. Big deal. That made their list of suspects very long. They had wanted to speak to Robert, but they couldn't get in touch with him. He wasn't at home, he wasn't at work, and none of his friends or family seemed to know where he was. The detectives had stayed at the hospital because they figured that once Robert found out his daughter was there and had a woken that he would go to the hospital. But Robert never showed up or called. So had something happen to him too. And although Natasha was awake, like I said before, the doctors are saying, it's a very touch and go. So they don't want the detectives to make her upset. Now to be a little bit more specific about Natasha's injuries, she'd been hit over the head with a heavy object, most likely a tire iron based on the impressions and what had happened to her mother 20 to 30 times in the head. I can't believe that she's still alive. Neither. They said it was a miracle that she was alive. And not only that, but just like think about the process of that, like the brain swelling and the bleeding. And surviving the car accident. Yeah, everything. Detectives talked about the possibility of a hit man because of Robert's whistle blowing and expose a writing. But this didn't seem like a hit man. A hit man would shoot you in the head and then walk away. They wouldn't necessarily bash each woman over the head 20 times. It seemed personal. So is this someone that had been affected by Robert's whistle blowing? That was angry about it. So it might not necessarily be professional, but someone who had been affected. Like a coworker maybe? Yeah. Or somebody that got in trouble because of what his findings? Exactly. Yeah. The following day when the police were going to file a missing person's report on Robert Peer Knock, they were contacted by his attorney. He was alive and well. His attorney said that because of the conspiracies that he'd been battling and trying to uncover and in lieu of what happened to his wife and daughter, Robert wasn't fear for his life. He was terrified to go anywhere he was expected to be, like the police station or the hospital. And he's not evading the LAPD. He's just trying to not die. Okay. All I'm gonna say about that though is your family has just been murdered. And you have your daughter that's hanging on by a thread in the hospital. Yeah. All because of potentially what you have come forward with. And she had to have expected that. So he could go talk to her. Like, yeah. That's a little weird. Yeah. I don't want to place blame or have, you know, feel a certain way like that about him. But you're worrying about your skin a little too much and your family suffering for, like I said, potentially what you've opened up. Right. Like this is your fault. Although he does seem by all accounts based on like his behavior so far in this case, to be a strange man, to be eccentric a little bit. Okay. So maybe this is par for the course with his personality. I mean, maybe. Yeah. Or it could be this weird drawn up plot of his own making to get rid of his family for unknown reasons. I mean, I don't know. I mean, because I understand like you have a lawyer say, oh, no, guys, he's not, you know, he's not evading you guys. He's just afraid for, you know, could just all be a plot. Potentially. Yeah, you never know. The detectives said that they understood and they tried to speak with the lawyer about setting up a safe meeting with the client. Robert was reluctant to assure them that he would meet with them, but promised that he would not leave the city. Now, this was all very odd, but the detectives didn't want to give away that they felt this way. They believe that whether or not someone was after Robert you would think he would want to see his daughter after the harrowing attack that she suffered and was continuing to suffer from. And you would also think that he would want to be with her, especially because her mother, his wife, had just been murdered next to her. They believed like you do that this behavior from Robert Peer Knock was most definitely strange. They knew that they needed to look further into Peer Knock because this was starting to seem like the plot to some elaborate movie. When looking into Robert Peer Knock, the detectives did not find any criminal history, but they did find out a lot of information about his whistle blowing situation. At first, it looked like Robert was being a good guy, calling out the corruption of the state and doing the right thing, although it had been very difficult. But on the other hand, they found out some other information that made it look like maybe Robert was not the crusader of truth and justice that he made himself out to be. The man had a number of lawsuits and seemed to be one of those like nuisance suits guys where he would just file a lawsuit and try to get money for anything. Okay. He accumulated a large amount of money because of these lawsuits. Now, he lost more than he won, but he had filed so many that it didn't matter at that point. And these are mainly like slip and fall kind of things. Okay. So he's one of those. Yes. So now is he trying to investigate these things to open up the possibility to sue? Oh, yes, especially for wrongful termination. Think about it. Are you opening up this can of worms to get people in trouble to open up a, be able to open up a case to make money off the company that you work for? Oh, there's a strong potential. Or is this could be even blackmail where it's like, hey, listen, I just found all this stuff out and I'm going to find more. You know, if you pay me, I'll, you know, I won't release it. Like it could be dealing with a situation like that. Yeah, potentially. I mean, this is starting to become the rabbit hole in Alice and Wonderland right now because I feel like the more we talk about it, the more roots kind of spread out from the one idea. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, and it could go either way. Yeah. At the Peer Knock home, which the police had received a search warrant for, they found a filing cabinet full of tape recordings. Robert was always looking for something that he could sue someone over. And it seemed like he always was kind of recording what was happening to him. And his main focus as of late had been a lawsuit that he had been collecting evidence for against his recent former employer, the California Water Department. On one of the tapes, Robert could be heard having a meeting with his former boss regarding the whistle-blowing activities. And at one point in the conversation, the boss threatened Robert. And he said thank you and walked out of the office, meaning like you gave me what I needed. From what the detectives could find through documents and discussions with the office themselves, the Water Department decided that it would be cheaper to come to a settlement agreement with Peer Knock than it would be to battle him in court. They decided that they would let him go and they would pay him $900 a month for his pension. That is the equivalent of roughly $2400 in today's money and he would still be able to work on top of that. So it's a pretty good deal. That is a good deal. But the agreement is that he would never legitimize his claims of what he felt was the corruption within the California Water Department. And they thought this would appease him, but it doesn't. Rather, it had the opposite effect. Robert believed that if they were willing to offer him such a good deal, it meant that he was on to something bigger. And that's what he wanted to go after. So he saw it as proof of wrongdoing and that he was on the right track. There's got to be something not 100% right with him to pursue things that aren't necessarily there to try to get money. I guess listen, any company, bad publicity is bad publicity. Even if it's not real, right? I mean, you're damaging the credibility of a company or the state run program or something, anything real. People who are elected officials. So it looks like a black eye on their record and that's not what they want. And I'm sorry, I don't always believe that if they're willing to offer you money, it's not necessarily to keep you quiet of something that they've done wrong, but maybe just to not cause an issue at all, period. Well, a very long legal dispute. Right. I mean, they don't know what he wants to deal with that. I mean, but on the other hand, the state of California has a lot more money than Robert Peer Knock. It would actually be in their interest to keep this long legal battle going because this one man is not going to be able to afford attorneys. Well, maybe then there is a flip side because maybe he really does have something that could really expose and hurt them because this is a man who has cabinets and recordings at paperwork all over the place. He's looking paranoid. Yeah. It's giving paranoid. So I think throughout the whole process, Robert was trying to do the right thing and he thought he was in the right, but it was at that moment that he deviated into this paranoid conspiracy theory world. And it was just not what was really happening. The state didn't want to get into a legal battle with Robert Peer Knock, but he was paranoid. And it was just a misconstrued moment that's going to have some horrific effects for Claire and Natasha. Because of course, as all of these things are going on, life was not easy at home. Robert had been consumed by taking down the water department, the state of California and federal agencies. And his family had to sit back and watch him lean further and further into his delusions. And that must have not been an easy thing to do. The detectives, much like Robert had done with the water department, then uncovered some pretty damning information through Robert's documents and in talking to those who knew the family. They found out that in the beginning of all of this, the lawsuits and the whistle blowing, that Claire had been very supportive of what Robert was doing. And as he became more obsessed, she really vocalized to him that she was tired of him fighting everyone. She just wanted the family to be at peace like they had one spend. And because of that, a him not being able to stop his battles, Claire is going to completely detach from him. Because she believed that no matter what happened or what victories Robert had, he would never stop fighting because he seemed to just enjoy the fight period. Yeah. And that is an interesting thing to like pull away from him. You know, maybe she also feels that like maybe he should have cared more about what was going on in there. And we know with her ordeal, you know, like her recovery and everything else in her mind. No, no, no, no, this is, this is wall before the accident. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. But even even still though, like I mean, sorry, but I mean, it's true though. I mean, if someone's just constantly trying to fight and make money and do those things, he's obviously overlooking the rest of his family and everything else going on around him. Yeah, I mean, you're going to collect your life because this becomes your life. And he seemed to be getting crazy into this. Like walking around the house with a tinfoil hat. It's very odd, but also very intriguing because to watch someone on gravel like that, uh, it's scary, but also intriguing. Like I said, because his wife stopped supporting his many crusades, Robert looked for someone who would. Oh, no. And he began having an affair with a woman named Wendy. And he was very open about this affair. As time went on, Robert was spending less and less time at home and more time at Wendy's house. Well, that's a red flag. Yeah. Okay. So these two are definitely living separate lives. Now that leads us back to Natasha, who had at that point made a really good recovery from her surgeries. And she was capable of doing things. So she decides to talk to the detectives. And she is going to tell them a horror story that truly shocked them. She said that her father was really living with his other girlfriend and that she didn't mind because she loved being with her mother alone. But unfortunately, every once in a while, her father would come back to the house and stay for a little bit to pick something up or, you know, just cause chaos. And that was something he did frequently. And she said that was exactly what happened on the afternoon of July 21, 1987. The ideal life of the Peer Knock family had been an illusion. Robert had always been abusive towards his wife. What was projected to the world was not the reality behind closed doors. Natasha said that she remembered leaving the house with her mother on one occasion, after a really bad fight. And her father pulled up in front of them with the car and pulled them back inside. She lived in a constant cycle of her father being abusive and then apologizing to her mother and she would take him back. She said there was never any affection from her father. That was something that was projected when other people were around. But the reality living with him was that he was a very cold man. When she got older, Robert started hitting her too. When she was 14 years old, he had broken her arm. "My God." Now, although it was not ideal, she was happy living with her mother. The two of them would only have to endure his rages occasionally. And once she did ask her mother why don't you just completely leave him. And she said it's not so bad. He's with his girlfriend and he doesn't come home much. And she said it will probably start to be less and less. Natasha always thought it had to do with the finances of it all. But she did desperately want her father completely out of her life because he was still physically, mentally and financially abusive to the both of them. That's really sad. One of those days that he came home in a rage was July 21st. Now remember the crash where the car was found? That was 4am on the 22nd. So this is basically the day of the incident. She said that she had been planning to go to Magic Mountain with a friend. And the friend had dropped her off so she could get her things and then she was planning to go back over. But when she walked through the front door, she was immediately met with her irate father, screaming in her face. He was yelling about the fact that she had been wasting electricity. She must have left a light on and it was the daytime. It was silly and something small, but it was an excuse to yell and he liked to find those. But this time she said he was different. He was more violent. He began to attack her. He was a hitter, but this time he was hitting her and choking her. She knew something was different. He threw her to the ground and handcuffed her. He placed something over her head but kept her mouth out. He did this because the next thing he did was poor alcohol. haul down his daughter's mouth, almost drowning her with it. What? He was getting her intoxicated. It's like this plan getting set in motion. Yes. She was forced to stay calm and drink it, or she would suffocate. She told the detectives that she very quickly became heavily intoxicated. And she was in a complete haze, only vaguely aware of what was happening around her. She wanted to run away, but her legs wouldn't move. Her father then hogtied her. He carried her into her bedroom, where he played a game of Russian roulette with her. What? Yes. OK. This is actually crazy. He's torturing her. Yeah. I don't think that he planned on shooting her there, because then that would have not helped him with his plan. I think he was just torturing her. Yeah. Oh, 100%. She was terrified. She was not sure how long it was, but she felt like she was tied up in her room for hours. In her intoxicated haze, she heard someone else come into the house. She wasn't able to yell out, because she was gagged, but her stomach sunk as she realized that it was her mother coming home from work. So soon after this, she heard her father basically tackle her mother to the ground. After that, she said nothing happened. There was silence for hours. And because she was drunk, she fell asleep. She was awakened by her father carrying her out to the family car. He placed her in the back seat. She said that this is what she assumed before he took the coverings off her face, because she had heard the car door open. And then she was laying on a seat, and she knew that it was the seat of the car they owned, because she knew the smell of the leather. She had been placed down next to another body. She knew it was her mother, because she could feel her skin and smell her. And she knew it was her. That is so sad. I know, because usually that's your comfort, right? Yeah. And that's not there. Why are you doing this to me? I'm Christmas Eve. Oh, God. Sorry, guys. At first, she feared that her mother was dead, but then she heard shallow breathing. And she was relieved to know that she was still alive. Eventually, she felt the car begin to move. After about 30 minutes, the car stopped. And she said that she heard her father get out, or who she assumed to be her father, and rifle through the trunk. She remembered hoping that he would just leave them there. And she was trying to think about ways she could try and get away from him, but she was still tied up. She said after that, she doesn't remember anything, just waking up in the hospital. What the detectives knew was that Robert Peer Knock was retrieving a tire iron from the trunk. And whether Natasha had no memory of what happened because of her traumatic brain injuries that she suffered, or because she was choosing not to remember that her father brutally hit her and her mother in the head with a tire iron over 70 times combined, that they didn't know. But I would assume both might potentially be true. He then positioned the car and tried to rig it so it would hit the wall and explode. So it would look like the women were in a DUI accident. But Natasha was lucky. She survived the savage beating. And she was lucky that the car veered to the right. The human body and fate are two incredible things. I couldn't agree more. After hearing this story, the police are immediately concerned for Natasha's well-being. Robert Peer Knock knew she was alive, and that eventually she would be able to tell them everything. He might try to come to the hospital and finish the job. And obviously it made sense why he didn't come visit her in the hospital, right? Because then she would have been like, he did this, at least she could get that out. Exactly. And it does make sense. Oh, I'm concerned for my well-being. And then that's why before I was like, well, what about your family? Exactly. That's because he doesn't care, because he's the one that killed them. Yeah. So they put a police officer outside of her hospital room for 24 hours. By the way, this is a movie. No, I know it's insane. I'm sorry, I mean, I cut you off like that. This case is insane. It's truly-- I was reading the book. I kept googling like, are there podcasts about this? Because this is freaking wild. Yeah. What the hell? The detectives are in shock, and they're really stunned for quite some time about this revelation. Like, they had to sit with this for a while. They were like, holy shit. Yeah. When they let everything sink in, they're like, OK. This guy is cold, calculating, an abuser who was hiding behind this kind of good guy whistleblower stuff. Or he was delusional because of the whistleblower stuff. And so deep in his paranoia that he would stop it nothing to kill his perceived enemies, even if they may potentially be his family. It is interesting, too, because we're also trying to find a true motive, right? Correct. And it's like the one thing that's sticking out to me is he is with someone else currently. Did he also maybe at one point think like, OK, well, I'm so good at trying to start lawsuits and cause a ruckus and make money that I don't want anybody taking money from me. And if I want to leave my wife, that's one way to handle it. Exactly. Because that's what they're thinking. There, the detectives are thinking that the first option of who this man was is real. He's a cold, calculated abuser. They don't think that because of his paranoia, he did this. Because if that were true, he wouldn't have planned this out so elaborately to make it look like an accident. It's a good cover story. So what they need now is number one to find him, where the hell is this guy? Yeah. Number two, they need to find motive. Why did he want to kill his wife and daughter? And to kind of collect more information about him against him, detectives are going to reach out to the media and ask for help, ask for tips. And they get a big break right away when they hear from a woman named Victoria Doom. Victoria Doom? Yeah, which is like a really bad ass name. Like D-O-O-M. Yeah. That is cool. So a villain from like the X-Men or something. It is. But the opposite of the villain, she is the angel of this story. So Victoria was a divorce attorney. Oh. She said that Claire and Robert were basically living separate lives. And in order not to be dependent on her husband and to build a better life for herself and her daughter, Claire went to real estate school and began selling houses. One day, Claire visited Victoria and asked to take her on as an attorney. She asked if she could help her file the necessary papers with the court so that she can petition Robert for divorce. Seem that Claire was taking her daughter's advice. Yeah. And I think that that is starting to chill us motive for what he would be losing. And it's a tale as all this time, right? I mean, unfortunately, to do that is insane. People would rather kill and destroy a family than to just suck it up and just deal with it and pay out. And pay out. Yeah. So Victoria said that it was obvious that Claire was scared of Robert. But still, all of the needed papers were filed and she had him served for the divorce. Days after Robert was served, Victoria got a phone call from Claire, telling her that she and Robert were choosing to put the divorce on hold. She said that Robert had told her that he had some business deals pending and that if they split, it would potentially derail those deals. So he convinced her to delay the divorce six months. He said if she waited six months, he would agree to not contest the divorce and give her complete custody of Natasha. Yeah. Six months to plan her murder. Exactly. So the couple wrote up a contract. So Claire was smart and wanted to protect herself. She's like, this is a great deal. But if that's going to happen, then I need this in writing. So the contract said as much. If Claire waited six months to file for divorce, then Robert would not contest the divorce. Both parties signed and Robert left the paper in his office. What he didn't know is that Claire made a copy of it one day and sent it to Victoria Doom. She was a smart woman. Yes. And nine days before the contract was set to expire, the car accident happens. But you know, the copying of the contract also just shows how much she knows. knew she could not trust him. Yeah, I think she knew that he was that he was bad news. And that's something maybe she even thought maybe something more severe was to happen. And she wanted to make sure that the lawyer had it almost as if if something ever happens to me, Hey, lawyer, by the way, look what I have. Exactly. And you could show whoever's looking for information, like meaning police, right? Or that maybe she even thought that she would even come forward like she did. So it's kind of weird. She almost like predicted the future. Yeah. And in doing so protected Natasha. Yeah. So the testimony of Victoria Doom gave detectives the motive they needed. If they got divorced, Claire would have received if the divorce was uncontested, $400,000 in assets back in 1980, 87, which is the equivalent of $1.1 million today. Yeah, we're not talking pocket change. In addition to not having to pay her that money, Robert Peernauch had numerous life insurance policies out on Claire and Natasha. All of the policies totaled close to $5 million. There were two policies specifically that would only be paid in the event that Claire died in automobile accident. That's so oddly specific and giving yourself a way to do it. Insurance companies stop doing this. Like, oh, only if your wife falls down the stairs wall and toxicated or you're going to get this insurance policy enough. I mean, but what are you doing? Come on, Geico. Like what the fuck? Well, I don't know if Geico's making a policy like that. I know. I don't think that they would do that. I think that it's, it's just so interesting that you know, it's so obvious. How did you think you were getting away with that? But this guy is a scammer. He's gotten away with a lot. A lot. He's probably has pushed the limits at every stage of this guy's life. He we can't put it past him that he has successfully, although maybe not have maybe he wasn't successful at all of his suits that he filed. He did successfully hoodwink everyone in thinking that he was a good man. Yeah. He is this upstanding citizen. He's a great husband. He's a good father. That was all bullshit. He was a horrific abuser that terrorized these women. And the only time they got solace was when he left to go be with his girlfriend or many girlfriends because that's what Claire assumed was happening. And I think that he in his arrogance thought he was also going to get away with this too. Yeah. It's a time when people really didn't domestic violence was a dirty secret that people didn't want to talk about. No, you're a hundred percent right. And I just want to add to maybe this doesn't work in every case. But I always find that when, you know, we always want that curtain to be pulled back a little bit so we could see inside these families where these murders and crimes take place. Right. I thought you were going to say everyone's lives because I well, I mean, essentially, yeah, everything that we're covering, right? We always want to see what's really going on like being a fly on the wall. But here's the thing that you always need to remember. And it always helps me when I do these cases with you. The most dangerous thing out there, especially with family crimes like this is the man, the husband or wife of any family. If they are known to be this most out the most outstanding, most friendly, best person out there. If the friends love you, but the family is distant, you know that even though they're trying to put on that facade of everything is amazing, everyone loves me. That really means that there's so much turmoil behind that curtain that it's right at a fall part. Right. There's a problem with the perfect guy. Yeah. Cause like you, you could be the most outstanding person up front and all your, oh, all my, all his friends loved him. He was such a part of the neighborhood. But what does his wife and kids feel about him? Right. Because that is the thing right there. If there's any little bit of distrust or discourse or anything like that that you could tell from the family, that's how you know that that person's not a good person. I agree. Yeah. But a lot of times. And in this case, the family was scared and they kept up the act. Well, that's true, too. I mean, that does happen. But I'm just saying it's always the one that is always involved in the neighborhood. It always involved in everything else. Everyone loves them. Yeah. Can't, you know, has a million friends or it's the person that has a million acquaintances, but no friends. That's true. You know, how words of wisdom from John. Yeah. Well, who to look out for? Look out for those are the red flags. So now the detectives have what they need to arrest Robert Peer Knock. But he's still on the run. They can't find him. As the weeks went by Natasha, who would be taken in by Victoria Doom. Natasha's well, Claire's family is all in Canada. So there's nobody to take Natasha in. Victoria Doom becomes her legal guardian and her attorney. Wow. And takes care of the girl. That's very nice. I know. And as Natasha's healing, she is discharged from the hospital, but the detectives still feared for her safety, especially in leaving the hospital. And especially with her father on the loose. So they move her to a safe house. That's smart. Mm hmm. Well, one day the detectives got a phone call from the neighbor of the safe house. She told the detectives that she knew the house next door was a safe house. Imagine that. So she thought it was odd when one day someone showed up claiming to be a realtor. He said her house was worth so much money. He wanted to appraise it for her for free. And when she invited him inside, he walked to the back door, peered over into the next like the yard behind, which is the safe house. He got a good look at the backyard of the safe house. And then he left. Get out of here. Don't tell me it's him. So detectives show the woman a picture of Robert Peer Knock. No. And she confirmed it was him. That that's crazy right there. Yes. He hired a private investigator to find out where the safe house was. To tell them. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I think is the best thing? If I was a police right now, you wanted to catch this guy. I mean, I'm not even trying to make a joke right now. I would just pay a lawyer put a lawyer on a retainer, a random lawyer to say, Hey, listen, drop some phony paperwork and just tell him that he won the case that he's been working on. Oh, yeah. I have him like collect the money. Oh, you have to come down to the to the to the lawyer. Son, you know, so and so place. And then he gets there. You lock him up. Done. I just I think he is a little too paranoid for that, especially now that this saw. Okay. But you know what? You never know figures. Yeah. This guy just loves figures. So you never know. In the safe house, Natasha had a hard go of things. She would continue afterwards too as well. And still does to this day. She would have panic attacks and nightmares of her father chasing her. It was worse when he was on the loose. The detectives took catching Peer Knock very seriously. They tried to get information from Peer Knock's girlfriend, with whom he had been living with before the murder and attempted murder. Wendy didn't want to give away Robert's location. It was clear that she was under his spell, desperately in love with him. So the detectives decided they were going to play into that. And they told her, listen, everyone is looking for Robert, especially these young police officers. They're hungry to get promotions. So they want to be the ones to take down Robert Peer Knock. And if they see him, they're very inexperienced and they might discharge their weapon. And that means that Robert might die. These kids could do something stupid. But if you tell us where he is, we'll ensure that nothing happens to him. I mean, that's all great. No, but I mean, we are talking about the California Police Department. Yeah, it's LAP day. It probably not wrong. Probably is the most corrupt, you know, in history, history would, I'm not making things up. History would show you that they are the most corrupt. Not that, you know, I'm not like against cops or anything, but I'm just saying. Yeah, no, the LAPD is a little notorious for their, uh, corruptness. Yeah, well, not the best jobs and investigations either. But I mean, good scheme, good scheme. So it's wild, but it worked. It worked. That's that is insane. So she gave up his location. He was staying at a place called the vagabond hotel. Robert Peer Knock was considered armed and dangerous. So they organized a team to take him down. This is like my favorite thing ever. Are you ready for this detail? Uh, yes, please. The detective that had been chasing him for so long and has been dealing with this whole case calls the room. And he's like, is this Robert? He goes, yes. And he goes just so you know, the police are going to come looking for you. And then boom, they kick in the door. Get out of here. Yes. You wait. Okay. Okay, wait, stop. Please tell me you've seen the movie catch me if you can. I have. Okay. Doesn't this sound, I mean, minus the murder part, but doesn't this sound like catching me if you can't a little bit? Yeah. It does. Well, wait, John, you don't even understand what's about to happen. Okay. I'm sorry. It's not. Okay. It's, it's not over until the last sentence I read. I promise you. It gets crazier, crazier, crazier, crazier. All right. Well, then you got to go. They kick in his door. They rush him. He. He starts resisting arrest. And while they're wrestling with him to get him in handcuffs, his ear almost falls off. And they're like, what the hell? Usually, they've seen a suspect get bloodied up or whatever in wrestling them. But no one's ear ever comes off. So they're like, what the heck's going on? They finally get him in cuffs. And they realize he has stitches all over his face. He's trying to change what he looks. They find in his room a business card for a plastic surgeon in Las Vegas. They call the surgeon and they're like, was he in an accident? He's got stitches all over his face and she laughs. She goes, no, he got a facelift, a chin implant, and his eyes lifted. Oh, dude. He was trying to change his appearance. But unfortunately, he found a phenomenal doctor who didn't change his appearance at all. Like he still looked like him and he just looked like better. More, he's, he's handsome now. He's refreshed. Oh, my God. And that's why the woman knew at the, the safe house that it was him, even though he had had the surgery. Wow. So his ear almost came off because this base left the stitching. Well, that's actually disgusting. I was really discussing, but like, what? This is crazy. I know. So while his daughter was fighting for her life, he's getting plastic surgeries and like going from hotel room to hotel room living in false names. They also know that Robert Peer knock on the day after the crash, like the morning that the car was discovered. He emptied one of his bank accounts and took out $57,000. In the hotel room with him, they found a duffle bag with $30,000 in it. So I mean, he obviously in that time he had been on the run, had already spent $27,000, mostly probably on these surgeries. Yeah. And probably jumping from hotel to hotel. Yes. I would assume if someone came in and said, change my whole face on paying in cash, like you should probably call the police. Well, maybe that's why his ear almost fell off because it was maybe it wasn't a good doctor. I know she did a great job. I don't know because he was still completely recognizable. He was pissed about it. Was he really? Yeah. This is actually funny. So Natasha is relieved to hear of her father's arrest. I can only imagine that she probably felt a little bit safer. Victoria Dume, on behalf of Natasha, filed a wrongful death sue against Robert Peernock in the death of Claire. So Natasha could more easily gain financial access to Peernock's money. So he wouldn't be able to use it all to hire a defense attorney for himself. Smart. Yep. Detectives are going to be called shortly after Robert's arrest because while he is in prison, he tried to hire someone to kill Natasha and Victoria. Are you kidding me? No. And the guy that he solicited told the detective, he said to if these two jobs go well and you kill my daughter and this lawyer, then I'm going to hire you to kill the DA and the detective that worked the case. Okay, man. I mean, that this guy is just certified crazy, honestly. He's now he's doing everything he can to kind of stop this. Wow. He just wants to cause destruction. I feel so bad for his daughter. I mean, too. And the mother too. I mean, this is insane. Victoria Dume's husband bought guns for their house and her office. Just in case Peernock could find someone who was willing to commit the murders that he wanted finished. In his trial, Peernock's lawyer accused Natasha of being the mastermind behind it all. So she could collect $5 million, which would have been the payout between her parents' assets and life insurance policies. I mean, what an accusation that is ridiculous. Meanwhile, she's the victim that had her head bashed in 30 times. Yeah. It's a little hard to do that to yourself. Yeah. Come on now. Further evidence, the prosecution was able to collect papers from Robert Peernock's office. Remember, he had thousands of documents where he would make these lists and keep records. Yeah. He had a writing book where he would specifically keep lists like to do lists. And when they looked through it, they found that he had made a list of everything he would need to prepare for the murder of his wife and daughter. We got you. Yeah. That's why the book's called a list for murder. On the list was Rope, Gas, a tire replacement for Claire's car, liquor, water, rags, handcuffs, police mask, gloves, soak, matches. And then on a separate list, there was what to do for the car, what was needed. And he also had the dimensions of things written down. Like he was planning what would happen if the car hit the wall. And the date of that list was July 21st. Unbelievable. Natasha, who was 22 by the time the trial began in 1991, testified about what happened to her. She did a wonderful job on the stand. She was proud of herself that she was able to look at her father and show him that she was no longer scared of him. She was no longer a victim of his. She was a strong woman. But his ego would not let her have the last word. He was uncontrollable in court. He had to talk at all times. He was insane, even in his preliminary hearing before the trial. He was disruptive and he was removed several times from both trials. He would yell, interject, not let people talk. He would interrupt the judge. He would call out to people in the courtroom. He wasn't going to let this trial go by and not have his say. Based on all of his outbursts, the defense lawyer told him that it would be a really bad idea if he took the stand. But he insisted on doing so. You know why? Because he's a man. Well, yeah, but he's a control freak that's losing control. Yep. He knows it's coming to an end. So this is his last ditch effort to try to hold on to control. That's exactly what they're going to say about him later on. Oh, sorry. Look at you. You're so good. You're getting good at this, John. Thanks. So he takes the stand anyway. And it's clear as he's answering questions that he's full of rage. People saw the real him that day. Not the even-keeled man that he portrayed to the world. This was the man his family had suffered with for years. He gripped the bars of the witness stand so tight that his knuckles were white. Then when the prosecutor got close enough to him, Peer Knock leapt from the witness stand and attacked the prosecutor. No. Yes. The sheriff and the bailiffs had to pull him off while other officers of the court were escorting the jury out and the judge was yelling at him to be thrown out. It was craziness. Wow. So that is so insane. I know. I've never heard of this case. Nor have I ever heard you ever tell a story about like what's taking place right now. I know. It's insane. Wow. So the defense team rested after that, obviously. I'm sure. The judge was like go talk to your client. The attorney was like, dude, I told you like the evaluation of what on the stand like your wild. He wasn't allowed back in the courtroom and the defense rested. The verdicts came back after six hours of deliberation. The reason I think it took six hours to deliberate is because there was no physical evidence at the scene like a fingerprint or anything like that. So it's truly a circumstantial case. Yeah. I could see that. So they found him guilty. Yeah. I mean, if I was a jury member, I would have as well. But this man behind bars. At the sentencing, Peer Knock also tried to cause a scene by slamming his head repeatedly down on the table in front of him and yelling. The judge was pissed and she said, you're not winning here. You are going to hear what I have to say. And she had him gagged with duct tape. No, she did not. Yes. And then had a bailiff stand behind him so that if he tried to like slam his head, the bailiff would stop him from doing so. Eventually he ends up with duct tape wrapped around his head. He just puts his head down on the table. And the judge like says to him, well, first she calls him, she goes, I think this is pathetic. You're used to having control, just like you said. And this is your way of you trying to regain control. And I'm not going to let you do it. She sentenced him to two life sentences without the possibility of parole. The judge then proceeded to make a very long statement about how dangerous Piernau Kwa's. Even behind bars Robert Piernau continued to torture his daughter. With his experience filing suits. He got himself transferred to a prison where he had a lot of contact with inmates who would soon be released. And he did have a history of trying to hire someone to kill her and Victoria. Because of this, Natasha and Victoria were scared that he would send someone to murder them. They lived looking over their shoulders for a very long time. That's very scary because you think that if he's when he's locked away, it's over, but it's not. Now Natasha does work with Anthony Flacco in the writing of his book, but she does not agree to be interviewed until 2015. For 20 years, she said, I'm terrified for my life. She refuses to be seen. So they black out her image and change her voice. Because she's scared that her father would have her killed. And I think she has a reason to be scared. And that's so sad that she survived this crazy murder attempt. And she's still living in fear. She said in that interview that she gave that she Googles her father's name every so often to see if he died yet. Robert Peerock died in December of 2021. So I hope now Natasha can finally rest and not have to look over her shoulder. Yeah, I agree. Because I think that even though, like I said, you know, he's locked up, but like, are you really safe? You never know. Exactly. And it's like, what life, what kind of life is that if you have to continually look over your shoulder? You know, so I feel bad for her. You know, I really do. She lost her mom. You know, her, I mean, she got traumatized and oh my god, I mean, she was really a victim in this case. It's really sad. How crazy is this? It's probably the great one of the crazy stories I've ever heard, you know, heard you tell me. I know I couldn't even believe it. I mean, this was and the book is like such a good read. I really highly recommend it because of course, there's so many other like flakko goes into great detail. He works extensively with the family, with the first responders, with the detectives and with Victoria Doom. So insane. That's the only way to explain this case. Okay. Thank you for letting us in on this insane story. Well, Merry Christmas, guys. But I'd give you something crazy. Well, you sure did. You sure did. Well, we hope you enjoyed it. We hope you have a wonderful holiday season and until next year, right? Yeah. Yeah. You gotta say the joke. You want me to say the joke? I don't know. Like, that's just like, that's the corny joke. Like, I'll see you next year. Oh, okay. I already did it. That went right that went right over my head. Wow. It's the eggnog that you're giving me right now. Well, guys, until next time, don't park next advance. Bye guys. Bye. [Music]