Episode 18 - Anthony (Mule) Hammel

[Music] On this episode of "Castodon Connections" I sit down with world-renowned chef Anthony Hamilton. Anthony, better known as Mule, takes us through what it was like for him growing up in Castodon, followed by his journey to becoming a well-known chef. Mule, thanks very much for catching up with us on "Caston Connections" today, mate. Yeah, it's my pleasure, Kano, really excited to be here. Awesome. Just like to start off for those that don't know who you are, mate, maybe just describe a little bit about what your connection to Castodon is. Yeah, so we, like our family, stumbled across Castodon, I think I must have been 10 or 11, so maybe like in '95, '96 and my parents had sort of jumped around a little bit, not not that, but sort of they got burnt out in the bushfires in Belarat. In sort of the early '90s and we kind of got up to Queensland for a little bit and jumped around and sort of we felt like we'd just been driving around Australia and sort of next minute I knew was sort of settling in in Sanford, so we had a little place in Sanford and yeah, I think I enrolled in the primary school in grade five and then sort of through grade five up until sort of finishing high school and then a couple of years after high school, I worked around the area and yeah, that's sort of how we came across Castodon, I suppose. So yeah, I mean I've got nothing but really good memories of Castodon, I loved growing up there and you know a couple of my best mates, my lifelong mates, you know, people that I met sort of in Castodon, so yeah, sort of in the early '90s is where we sort of, or the mid-90s is when we sort of stumbled across Sarasapose. Yeah, for sure mate and just go back to the bushfires in Belarat, were you around then and if you were, what was the memories of that, that would have been pretty traumatic, I would imagine. Yeah, like I remember the day it happened really vividly actually, so I can't remember it year it was, it must have been maybe 90 to 93 perhaps and I remember it being a really hot day and we had a couple of dams on the property, so my mum and dad had sort of bought like a little ten acre bush block with a shed on it and they had sort of dreams of building like this mud brick house and we'd been there a couple of months and they'd sort of renovated this really was a shed to like a little sort of livable home but anyway it was a really hot day and we had two dams on the property and we were swimming but must have been like maybe 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning, could have even been earlier and anyway we saw it, dad or mum, whatever it was, had noticed a couple of really low weath or with clouds and I think dad said no that's not clouded that smoke, so by a little PW 50 motorbike and he sort of hopped on it and fanged up the driveway and came back and the house but maybe 200 metres away or 500 metres away was lit up on fire and he's come hoon and back and we kind of scrambled through our bush block up into the main road because the fire was spreading really quickly and I just remember sort of jumping into maybe like a passivise car and then it sort of just started to domino and I just remember not sort of like the fires and massive and I was on the news and I ended up staying at a mate's place for two or three days while you know dad was out fighting the fires and can't remember where mum was, she must have been doing something but it was um they're pretty crazy um and sort of later on we found out that they was deliberately led and sort of mum and dad lost everything, I don't think anyone was sort of heard or injured in the fires but there was you know multiple houses lost and pretty crazy times yeah. Yeah absolutely to yeah live through that I hate to think of how that effect is especially your mum and dad mentally you know as you said losing everything it just almost like you got to start again probably so yeah great that you're able to then I guess it be the catalyst to you then finding us in little old casserole and Sanford and I guess just on that point what do you think was the appeal to your parents or to you guys as a family when you did stumble across the place in Sanford? Well I think I think mum and dad had sort of always in their mind you know wanted a little like a little bit of lands and sort of like the country lifestyle I suppose so um and to be fair like I'm pretty sure that thing that houses in Kesson would do it cheap as well so it's probably not much I think yeah right um I think that you know the combination of you know incredibly cheap housing and then sort of being in a rural area and a couple of acres and yada yada yada was the thing that kind of appeared to them and I like if I can't remember a hundred percent but like I remember mum and possibly dad really falling in love with our little places sort of like an old cottage and you know it's this beautiful little place of types of sort of fruit trees and tree sort of surrounding it and yeah I think just even just you know the visual look at the house really appealed to them early doors and yeah we just ended up settling there so sort of how we we came across it all I must admit that every time I do drive past when I go through Sanford I do think of you guys and I don't know you probably haven't lived there for 20 odd years but maybe longer but yeah it definitely crosses my mind I remember growing up a little bit through there and um yeah obviously had great fun mucking around out in the wide open spaces um moving on to you mentioned being enrolled at the primary school here and then eventually the secondary school uh what are your memories from the primary school days primary school days was pretty short lived because it was sort of only a year and a half um I remember Mr Holmes I think was our principal I think Miss Shady was my teacher in grade no Miss Shady yeah Miss Shady was our teacher in grade five and then I think we had a couple of teachers in year six but I reckon it could have been Rose McGougan or Miss McGougan I can't remember if she was early high school or if she was primary school it's sort of so long ago now but um primary school was good like it was sort of it's to be to be to be honest I'd probably I think I'd been to five or six primary schools leading up to then so we jumped around a lot um you sort of post the fire um and then sort of I think we did a quick stint up north and then ended up obviously back down in Kasten so it was really weird it was sort of like my fifth or six primary school in it in as many years um but I just remember feeling really settled there and then sort of you know obviously transitioning into secondary college or secondary school um in year seven and you know like I was like I love school like honestly it was like probably more a social experiment for most of us you know it was like um you know we had such a good sort of group of mates and friends and we're all pretty staunch and um yeah it didn't really feel like school to be honest it just felt like a place to catch up yeah and I think probably young males in particular probably all feel the same way as they were going through there especially they um sort of younger years of the high school soon but um just quickly on uh um you mentioned the the number of different schools before you uh been here in Kasten and did you feel like when you got here that it was going to be different or did you feel like oh it's just going to be another short stay and we're going to be somewhere else soon now like and I mean like as a kid like I mean I was young then but like coming to Kasten was probably the most settled I'd felt in sort of my young life and especially like um sort of finally getting into high school like it was just that you know it was just a constant like it was like that felt like home um due to the people here or um just where your family were in in that time of your lives no bit of everything for sure like I like they kind of say you're not really a local in Kasten unless you live there 90 years or something like that but I mean like we definitely felt welcomed and settled um and yeah and I reckon it was like it was definitely a combination of like my you know my folks finally probably settling and then absolutely the people as well so um and it's funny like Kasten is always it's always attracted sort of like yes there's always been like your local um you know always like it you know your local core of uh like locals um but then it's always attracted like you know whether it be artistic type people or you know just people sort of looking for that sea change and you know all walks of life really and I just see we kind of fit it into that sort of like all walks of life category like we were just our family was looking for a change and and casted and provided that really yeah perfect and just quickly on your parents mate what did they do when they um become members of the community yeah the old man was he was sort of all over the shop to be honest like he did a little bit um here and there but sort of just uh he sort of chased the seasonal work a little bit but like he battled with a few things internally as well came so yeah he was a bit of a not a lost soul but just trying to figure it all out himself and and mum always she's always been really community driven um so she she did a few sort of jobs here and there but like was always doing courses and things throughout the community center and just always like she's always been a big helper of people so and a very um talented person when you speak about you know being you know crafty or musical like she's a very talented um artist herself from memory yeah she is like she and that's that's her passion and her love and um it's like now recently she's starting to it's funny because like she helps with people with disability and um part of that as well is sort of doing she's just starting to um do some like uh therapy and things like that so she's just been able to combine the two things beautifully and um yeah she's always been really really good with her art and even the old man like he used to play a bit of music and things like that and was always um very practical and very creative when it came to like even building things and doing things like that so yeah they'll both sort of artistic in their own sort of forms I suppose so yeah for sure and maybe that's um what leads you into into obviously what you've working your trade out now there's got to be a artistic fleet to that as well which we'll get to a little bit later on but um best shout out to you I'd love to catch up and have a cup of coffee if you're ever in the area um yeah as you as you mentioned man she's a lovely person and um really does care for everyone so move on back to your high school year's mate what sort of student were you at school obviously you mentioned it was a bit of a social experiment but how did you apply yourself when you're at school in terms terms of their academic stuff yeah not very well at all um I was bloody hopeless when it came to school work like any sort of um assignment that we had like I I know were the viola which we just thought the night before like I was hopeless um with any sort of commitment to the studies um yeah shout out the report can't probably read Anthony will continually disrupt the members of the class yeah that was yeah that was me down to a team um absolutely my uh I spent a fair bit of time in the quiet room um but now listen like school acutelyson I was an academic at all like probably a little bit street smart maybe but not very academic um and that's not to say like I love going to school genuinely like I've enjoyed it and we had unbelievable teachers there but um I probably had you know more of a creative mind than uh an academic mind I suppose so in hindsight then mate do you think you wish you had a better ability to be able to apply yourself when you're at school or you don't think it really matters now um with the path that you ended up taking now listen if I my time again I'd probably apply myself more um but you know it sort of all worked out in the end so I'm not too I'm not too bothered about it and sort of like being a dad now like I definitely pushed my daughter to not do what I did um and probably be a little bit more focused when it came to the schoolwork but um yeah I mean it's all worth the up pretty well mate so yeah for sure for sure do you have any stories that come to mind when you think of the high school things are where maybe you got sent to the quiet room because of or will we keep that under wraps so there's too many to recall honestly like I bet I can tell you sort of a funny story I suppose so I got I did get suspended once and it was pretty comical to be fair so it was sort of before the era of mobile phones and things like that and the school we just got like a handheld recorder like a video recorder and uh I think it was Marty Mesbitt or somebody for like an assignment had to do like a interview or something like that anyway they're up in the library and they had the camera set up and um like she was interviewing whoever she was interviewing and I thought it would be really funny if I sort of just like stuck by the camera with my my pants down and um and uh and it was sort of all caught on camera and like I didn't think much much about it and then sort of maybe the next day or that afternoon like my voice gets caught up on on the TA Anthony can you come to the principal's office and sure enough I rock up there and I'm just thinking what if I die I'm like I didn't have a clue what I done and Mr. Donigan in his very serious sort of voice you know we have video evidence of you exposing yourself Anthony and you know this is unacceptable and yada yada yada and and sure enough like mum gets called in and yeah I got suspended for a couple of days for doing a moony on camera but um a lot of the teachers kind of laughed it off and mum wasn't too fussed about it because it wasn't really the end of the world but um yeah that was probably my my most memorable that's that's a good one I like that yeah it's sort of sort of key j it's not too too too ex-rated that um no that's good yeah the other little things that nothing too crazy no very good that's a good one um so did you sort of stick it out and and make it all the way through and graduate year 12 or did you go and find a job somewhere else being that you went um you know academically minded or how did it sort of unfold from there no I definitely finished I finished year 12 um I don't think to any sort of high standard but I grounded out and and got it done um which most of us did to be fair there was only a few that sort of didn't from when we started to when we finished there was probably only a handful of kids that so didn't go all the way through but no I finished and um you know super glad I did and yeah I mean just got it done yeah so at that stage mate did you know sort of what you wanted to do in terms of a career path and you're working towards that or it was just get school out of the way and then deal with the rest when it comes yeah it's a little bit of that so sort of in year I reckon year 10 11 and 12 I think um on the school holidays I did a little bit of winter pruning um over in south Australia to like sort of um you know make a bit of coin and like I think you know I wanted to buy a guitar or something so I thought oh well if I go work over these two weeks I can make a little bit of money and and buy whatever I wanted to buy and I suppose finishing school like a lot of kind of kids I just fell into the routine of not routine but I just you know I just followed the seasons a little bit so I did a little bit of laboring whether it was um you know I did some I did some routes about I did some crutching I did a handful of day shearing I did winter pruning um blue gum planting like sort of you know the season sort of dictated around you know particularly in rural areas sort of what job was available um so I so I did that just sort of like I think a year and a half and then kind of realised like geez it's it's pretty hard work um and I had a couple of makes and my partner at the time had been speaking about potentially moving to warnable to do like some courses so I was sort of thinking like you know cooking it always kind of spiked my interest and I'd always sort of enjoyed doing it and like if anyone knows me they know that I love like eating food so I thought oh well um maybe I'll just have a crack at you know doing my apprenticeship so I sort of signed up for you know still the same now so it's two and three in commercial cookery and I busted that out in a year and then that sort of transitioned into a apprenticeship and so I sort of did my apprenticeship um one year after completing my search through and through at the Taken Warnable so I think that might have been around when I was 19 or 20 I think I sort of transitioned to that first or second year of an apprenticeship awesome mate so just before we move on to the the cooking sort of stuff um and your career now how did you find the the seasonal work we're enjoying it at all or it was just this is the job I've got to do to get some money to make sure I can do what I want in terms of you know you know leaving day to day buying whatever you wanted or whatever that looked like how did you actually find that work around town you know I loved it like I did I genuinely loved it um like I particularly loved working in the shearing sheds like but probably probably set me up like in regards to sort of work ethic like you just have to work hard you know what I mean and I kind of enjoyed that and I loved the camaraderie of it all and um you know sort of traveling to different um I suppose farms and meeting different people and uh no I loved it like it just taught me so much mate you know like it really did and um you know I just got to meet so many different people and everyone sort of had their own story and no I just I enjoyed it I genuinely enjoyed it you know but I kind of just didn't see it as something that I wanted to do forever sort of chase those seasons yeah and and you sort of chase the next job but all I was doing it now I really enjoyed it I just think it just taught me so much mate so yeah no fair enough mate I totally understand and one more before we move into the music into the food sort of stuff you mentioned about the music and buying a guitar so you don't want having a bit of a play or a jam on a few different instruments I'll back in the day not now like I like I genuinely come to realise it I was never really any good at it and while I had a crack like I enjoyed it like I definitely enjoyed it but um yeah I mean I haven't picked up a guitar in years now but I still listen to music I love music but playing it all leave that to the to the big boys and girls like you know I was just a bit of a grinder with it but still enjoyed it yeah fair enough and I guess the music probably answers a little bit of the question but like when you were younger what did what else did you do to sort of past some time when you weren't at school or when it worked how did you what were some of your hobbies yeah so sport like I was always you know like play footy play cricket squash golf yeah fishing camping shooting like all the normal stuff that kids in casted and all particularly young young young boys in casted and would do growing up you know like I remember playing you know I'd play reserves footy and then sometimes get called up and play the senior season sort of play two games two games a week and same with the cricket like I was just mad on cricket and you know I play under 16s in the morning and then go quite as soon as in the afternoon and just like yes sport I mean sport is such a big thing in country communities right and yeah that was always my my past time like whether it was you know pretty cricket fishing whatever it might have been we're always sort of doing something yeah cool and did you do much cooking at that sort of age or not really yeah like I would play around like I mean sort of as a kid mum and dad would sort of waste cooking day and the only time I'd ever cook is if if say like mum had gone away for the weekend and I was home alone and then I was sort of disporster cook for myself and then sort of I suppose my man was a really good cook like she she was English and sort of old old school meat and three veg but it was always just like super delicious and there was always heaps of it so probably a pretty good scone out of the magic yeah big time your cheap putings and scones and putings and and all of those things but um yeah probably didn't cook that much but I it's funny like I didn't cook that much but I always could see myself cooking it was really weird like just visualising in my mind so yeah it's odd yeah so I guess the jump then to move into going into a certificate in that field is quite abnormal I suppose yeah a little bit because it was like something that I hadn't really tinkered with that I thought about and then it was sort of I just took the leap of faith and go all right stuff it I'll just do I'll do this buddy certificate and and see see where it takes me and it sort of just you know led me down the rabbit hole of becoming sort of like a career chef I suppose so and how did you go like moving back into the I guess the study side of things for like a better term like going back in and and learning again like when you weren't maybe academically gifted at school was that a challenge for you when you went back to sit the certificates no it wasn't because it was something that I was really keen on I suppose and I think that because I somehow like in my mind or in said all right you're going to do this now like let's have a crack at it I think it just yeah the transition into sort of that study study side of it again was was pretty easy because it's something that I wanted to do and a lot of was sort of practical as well so yes there was the theoretical side of the apprenticeship then like it was kind of like superseded with obviously the practical side so it was sort of like you got the best of both worlds really and I would have I would say it was sort of like 70% actually cooking and learning and only 30% theory and I think you know that's why I taste and that is so valuable for the trade for trades people and and sort of creatives as well because it's not all about the theory you know a lot of it is really about sort of like learning the craft or the skill yeah so yeah the transition was okay came to be honest yeah cool and how long was it that you will undertaking this certificate that you realised yep this is this is me you know this is me down to a tea this is what I want to do did it take a while or banging you know you'll just having a crack and things develop from there yes struck like I reckon I sort of has been a guest but it would have been within the first where he could sort of took to like a duck to order to be honest it was it came and I think came like coming from the shearing sheds and sort of like that seasonal work and knowing how physically hard you have to work like doing this was like it's a different hard but like nothing's as hard as like crushing you know 700 sheep right so it's sort of like this is actually a lot easier than that and I kind of enjoy it and I get to eat food all the time so I was like yeah I took to it really quickly and you know it was probably within a few days to be fair I thought yeah I can have a crack at this so yeah awesome yeah I did it yeah so you might not know the answer to this but like in terms of you've obviously probably met different chefs all over the world is it common the pathway that like that you've taken to go through southwest tape and do you trade that way versus another way like it is the way that you went the most common way to get into the field or there are other ways that are more common and you're sort of the black sheep of the family for lack of a term yeah like it's not uncommon the way I did it probably the more traditional route is just to like straight into an apprenticeship yeah um so I basically did a full year of trade school like every day for you know a year and that basically then just took me straight into my second year of an apprenticeship and then once I started my apprenticeship I'd already sort of completed all the modules and things that I needed to do for my apprenticeship so it was really just full-time on the job experience for me when normally like most apprentices might do like one week a month or one day a week of trade school so I didn't have to do that because I'd already completed the the trade school um prior to sort of starting my apprenticeship but um yeah I don't think the way I did it was it wasn't common but it wasn't uncommon it wasn't unusual um what I'm hearing is that that may have actually benefited you in the long run in terms of you could come in and have a real hands-on experience and be able to adapt to the working lifestyle of what you know an employer might need quicker than maybe what some others might have would that be a fair assumption? yeah yeah absolutely yep and and because I'd sort of done a year and a half sort of two years of like actually working like then doing like then going back to the trade so then when I started sort of actually working again it was like it was really if you for me to sort of transition like out of work into school then out of school back into work um and then yeah and then just being able to spend all you like the continuity of sort of just like rocking up and learning every day on the job but post to sort of having it a little disjointed way and sort of work for four days and have a trade school day and then sort of back into work so um yeah probably benefit in the end to be fair? yeah cool so you finish your training mate and your certificates where's your first job and first apprenticeship and what that looked like how did you go? yeah so it was what one of the teachers early on had sort of flagged me to be like I don't know like maybe one of the more talented chefs in the class I suppose and then suggested that I should try and get this job that was coming up in town so it was non-acastellinger a little Italian joint the head chef had come from really acclaimed head chef Sashon I should say had come from really acclaimed restaurants in Melbourne and he was sort of like a local warnable boy and sort of come came back to warnable to you know do his own little restaurants I ended up there and yeah I was just I was so lucky because like in the world of cooking like foraging and hunting and gathering has become this really trendy thing when like when I started like this is my 20th year cooking now you know like this guy like no word of a lie like he was you know foraging for mushrooms like he would go diving for crayfish like I remember one day rocking up to work and there was a freshershark on the um on the Kourin floor which you'd caught the night before and it was just like I was exposed to these like this hunter hunter gatherer sort of um mentality slash lifestyle really early on when like now it's sort of really trendy came but he just did it that then as sort of like he just loved to do it um so I was super lucky um so I did my two years there and you know and we you know I was really lucky because we'd make everything from our ice creams to our pastures to like just everything was in the house and that might not sound that I mean surprising but it's like you'd be surprised at how many places don't actually make all their own stuff and they just buy it in so like I was just so lucky to stumble across this and I fantastic little restaurant in warnable at the time you know the timing is really key there so I just got lucky I mean that's an amazing story and do you think it helped decide some of your values in terms of your own restaurants now that you've got and how they operate and what you wanted to do like you mentioned it'd be hard to fathom how many people don't make their stuff from scratch do you think that really helped define your values 100% like there's no doubt about it like because the standard of the expectations was so high from the very start and the fact that like you know we're getting all this amazing produce here and you know um this guy was just so keen on fishing and gathering himself and but that almost just felt like the norm and then when it wasn't having so what the hell is going on but why isn't this place doing that you know like this is how they use this is how they did my apprenticeship you know and it was yeah probably a little bit spoiled to be fair just because I was just exposed to that level and and sort of passion really early yep so you mentioned that you'd love hunting and fishing everything at growing up did you ever get a chance to go out and and do some of that stuff when you're working in the field as well or that was not something that eventual like I probably did it in the late years sort of um like I would always go like go fishing and like catch fish and cook at home or you know go foraging for mushrooms and cook them at home and things like that but that never translated like doing it outside of work and bringing it into work like number one it's sort of a little bit illegal um yeah but yeah doing it at home like absolutely all the time like I still do it now like I'll be in winter and that I'll be driving and then I'll see you know some super jack mushrooms going on the side of the road and because I know what they are I'll just pick them and then you know we'll have something with mushrooms for dinner or breakfast or whatever it might be so um yeah yeah that's special mate love that so so what happened um thereafter so a couple of years in Mordable at your first job what then evacuated was it someone coming in headhunter did you know you just look for green or grass or what happened in the next day of your life yeah so the progression normally is all was and probably still is like you kind of you know out of your apprenticeship you've moved to Melbourne um you try and work in my the big boy restaurants where you've got a London and try and work in one of the big boy restaurants so basically I've finished my apprenticeship um and then to what the end I was speaking to my boss I'm like you know I want to go to Melbourne I want to work in a restaurant like and he gave me a handful of restaurants that I think that I should try and like ready steady cook was really big at that time of my life and sort of George Columbaris the little Greek fella um just sort of popping up on our TVs everywhere and um had opened the restaurant in Melbourne so I remember one day I caught the train from Warnable to Melbourne to have an interview um and I met with the head chef and I sat in there and so listen I'm finishing up my apprenticeship in like a month or so I'm really keen to work here and um we organised a trial and I think I went back up maybe a month later or a few weeks later the trial and got the job and then started work at the press club in Melbourne which was yeah that was just hectic to be honest it was just um an incredibly hard place to work really difficult and and what made it so hard and difficult to work there mate was it just the climate or the way things were run so it was yeah a bit of everything like without exaggerating like a normal working week there was anywhere between 75 to 85 90 hours a week like it was just it was just technical you get you get in there at 7 30 in the morning and you wouldn't be leaving the joint until you know 1 a.m. some days and it was just relentless and there was multiple times like some days I'd be getting the tram back home um and like I would I would be woken by the tram driver because we'd reached the end of the line and I'd miss my my my tram stop because I'd just was so cactus you know it was um it was just tectic and it was just sort of like the last of that real Gordon Ramsay sort of generation of chefs where like you're kind of just yelled and screamed at and it was just like real yeah like I said the legless it was just hard hard hard hard work so I lasted about a year there um and sort of the catalyst to me to me to finish it up there is I'd just come off like a couple really really big days working and um I was driving to I was driving to work the next day and like I was so cooked I was so tied and I'd sort of dosed off driving to work and I haven't really told this to be honest and I um I kind of ran in yellow light and I'd fall in a sleep and I T-bone this taxi that was sort of um turning and there just sort of just at all unfold and it's like no this is no good like sort of had a not a bad crush but like the crash nonetheless and it was sort of just due to just being really overworked to be fair so it was a it was a it was a turning point for sure no that's insane oh goosebumps it was pretty bonkers like and um yeah it's just yeah we're just expected to do to do so much and the the head chef was a psycho like no word of a lie like I remember one day he was just screaming at us all for whoever knows what it was near sudden he get a nosebleed because he was just screaming so hard and it was just yeah it was hectic it was hectic and so wrong and pretty safe to say that you wouldn't be that boss I'd imagine no no no no you sort of as at least I not have my moments don't get me wrong but it's sort of you just I think you really look like probably hear it a little bit a lot of probably um trades and and workplaces it's like you don't want to be you know you don't want to be like the bad people you have worked with or for it's sort of like you want to be the opposite of that right so like I really learned that you definitely get a lot more out of people by being you know a little bit more sensitive a little bit more understanding and to start talking to people just like just by normal you know conversation you tend to get a lot more out of people than they're screaming at them so as hard as it probably was that that year that you were working in this restaurant it's it's given you some more skills to be make you become more successful again isn't it like you speak about the hunter gatherer thing earlier and then you speak about you know at least an ideal workplace and environment but it's helped create I guess you as a person and you as a you know a restaurant owner as well yeah no doubt about it for sure for sure yeah so moving forward then after the year there what what went next so I headed down to Dalesford there was a lady shift down there by the name of Oliver Tascar who has like she's just I mean she is I mean the restaurant's institution it's been there I think 25 30 years now it's always been critically acclaimed at that time it was always you know like a real destination place for chefs and I just flung an email to the chef I said I want to come and work there and again do my trial and just loved it and Dalesford being sort of like a country town it was like it was perfect for me because I was sort of back in the country but I was still cooking like you know sitting quality food still learning a heap and yes they they're three I think three and a half years and I mean that was the place that really set me up as a chef you know I just I just learnt so much there just just cooking I mean like I just really learnt how to cook I got exposed to so many different really beautiful you know ingredients and producers and you know the emphasis on like local and and then that sort of hunt together a mindset that's where it really sort of kicked off there and you know because Alan was such a big advocate for you know finding and sourcing ingredients and using really small scale supplies and producers and things like that so yeah I loved it I loved my time there it was phenomenal awesome mate and I guess with both the the last two jobs we've just spoken about and and you know putting yourself out there and then going to do a trial what's the feeling within yourself you know you're really confident and you're really nervous and then what do you think makes you stand out above the rest to be able to then go on and get a job at both of these places um nervous not really I think like chefs I mean we've all got a little bit of an ego to be honest so it's sort of like you kind of back yourself in and I just think like again going sort of if I'm going to sort of loop this back to cast it and it's sort of like having that year and a half two years of of laboring and chasing the season it was sort of like like I knew that I could do the work like just give me an environment where I can thrive like I know my work ethic will stand out so it was sort of like I just sort of backed myself that way it's sort of like you show me and then the luck I'll just do it no drama so um yeah you know you were always sort of I think it and because I'd sort of always leveled up you know like I was lucky to work in a great place as an apprentice then you know I went to the press club and although like it was hard it was like on the resume it was unbelievable yeah um so I already ticked a couple of really boxes early on so it was like to take that next step again it was you know you kind of kind of just back yourself in really yeah so in Dalesford you the head chef are you working with other chefs how's that sort of look inside the kitchen yeah so I'm still a junior chef like what we call a shift of party which is sort of like you know second from the bottom basically um still like just grinding away you know very much just in charge of the section not necessarily a kitchen at all like you really just in charge of one one sort of one area of the kitchen really so and then I sort of transitioned into like you know the next step up which was like a chef tornado which was sort of like a chef that they could sort of just put in any section or any position and sort of just pinch it everywhere so I sort of did that for the last year I was there yep and do you have a real strength or weakness in terms of which area you can um go to and be in charge of or um you feel like you're pretty well equipped across them all now probably now I'm pretty well equipped across them all my weakness would be probably pastry and things like that like I can absolutely do it but it's not my strength um my strength now is probably more not necessarily the cooking side of things it's more the leadership and management side of things it's sort of like as you sort of get older like I suppose that like I get my real I get my kicks now out of like trading and and and teaching and showing the chefs how to be better and you know improving them like that's where I sort of that's where I get my enjoyment not necessarily the creative side of it now I suppose I still like cooking don't get me wrong I do but like I really love watching other sort of progress through there journey as a chef I suppose and just helping them sort of along their along their path yeah sure I might be a little bit ignorant mate but is that a challenge like in the heat of the moment during the kitchen trying to serve up 400 meals or something stupid like how do you actually get time to help educate and and teach future chefs yeah I mean like it I mean like within the day like you sort of come in pride it's so it's not all service right you're not just cook cook cook in for people like you come in a couple of hours early and that's where you you know prepare the food for the lunch service or within a service and that's the time where you get to educate and show and then sort of the services like that's your game day right so you prep times you choose day Thursday for detraining and then the services you know the Saturday afternoon where you sort of kick in and kick in and go around the field but um you know you sort of put in the work during the prep time and that's where you can sort of up skill and educate and then you know if you've done enough during that time to show them and services sort of just go time and it just sort of looks after it's so clearly so yeah sure cool do you have any major stuff up that you can recall or things have been pretty smooth sailing oh there's so many mate like you're man a shit that I've burnt and thrown out and fucked up it's just yeah it's crazy like yeah no perfect mate like before if there's just so many mistakes you know and you learn from them like that's that's the beauty about it like if you if you stuff something up that enough you generally don't do it again so I mean that's where I've had most of my learnings it's just through through mistakes really so yeah sure yeah there's just so many came there is just so many you know even even still to this day like you know you're still you're still stuff things up so very good lesson to the youngsters listening like mistakes are good just uh make sure you learn from them don't do it again 100% yeah 100% seriously so yeah all right mate so finish up in Darsford what's how old are you what's your next movements so I must have been in my mid 20s I then I then went traveling overseas for hi maybe six months or something I did like a Europe I did some backpacking in Europe and then sort of saw other parts of the world which was really cool like just eating and traveling and just sort of seeing you know seeing the world outside of Australia was really big is that a working holiday or you're just mainly you know trying to see a little bit of culture and just no just traveling like traveling and eating and and just learning my way around you know different countries so cool it was awesome like as a chef it was amazing you know because your curiosity to probably go to like more like so markets markets are a really big thing markets are normally the heartbeat of most cultures and cities so you know as a chef you're always sort you're always sort of gov take the market so they will that was always really um it was good because you really got to see sort of like the local side of the culture really real genuine sort of stuff yeah for sure for sure um so I did that and then ended up coming back to Dale's food and that's where I sort of got my first head chef job at a little place called Kazuki's which was sort of like this French, Japanese fusion type restaurant and that was sort of like my first ace then really running a kitchen and did you find that challenging really rewarding what would how's it sort of unfold yeah it was challenging definitely challenging because I was still young and I suppose you have these preconceived ideas of you know what a head chef is and how they should act and how they should be and I was probably a little bit immature in that regard like I've probably hadn't like mentally matured so it was challenging but like also like it's so rewarding as well because I was learning so much I was getting to run a kitchen I was super creative with the food as well so I did that for a couple of years you know we've got pretty good acclaim and you know I was good it was a good experience you know I was a good sort of stepping stone I suppose yep and how many chefs were you working with or were they working under you how many did you have um yep so yep so as a small team we had I think one apprentice and it was me behind her and I think another chef at the time so it's a pretty small team it was a small restaurant as well right so yeah um you know but it was a really good like I said a really good stepping stone probably you know where I am today yep and so at Kazuki's did you have a signature dish that you would absolutely adore or one that you felt patrons really enjoyed oh shit it's so long ago um no it's funny like I get asked that question all the time like it's about signature dishes and it's sort of like and that's your sort of one of those restaurants that have been around for like let's say 20 years or so like those places have signature dishes but a lot of other places just constantly evolve and change so yep to be fair no I can't admit nothing sticks out can honestly so not that I can remember anyway so no fair enough uh so finish after a couple of years at Kazuki's where you headed so I ended up I ended up in Queensland for a little while funnily enough I took a little bit of a hiatus I I actually wanted to have a crack at becoming like a club professional golfer so like one of the golfers that you will see at say like a golf club or a serving of your Mars bars and Gatorade's behind the counter like basically just someone that you know wanted to work in in the golf industry basically so I went and joined a a golf academy up on the golf coast um for a year but funnily enough the whole time I was sort of doing that I was still cooking at night time and I weekend sort of in restaurants and through sort of circumstances I ended up sort of just back in the industry cooking again and I ran a place up there for a year um and then came back down to Melbourne and that's when I really sort of started to dig my teeth into it again and really commit to the trade and you know realizing that you know this is where I'm good at and you know I'm going to really stick it more and see where it takes you. Yeah cool so just before we move on to that make the the golf thing where does that come from like what makes you just decide I've had enough of cooking I'm going to try something else and how did you lean on golf I guess. Yeah so I at the lake house like and you'll find this with a lot of chefs um you know as a kid growing up obviously weekends you play footy you play cricket and as soon as you become a chef that just disappears because you just you're working every weekend right so um basically a lot of chefs play golf because you can play it on a Monday or Tuesday like out weekends and normally Monday Tuesday or Wednesday Thursday right so any sport that you can play midweek is you know and if you're competitive and like you know playing sported doing those things which sort of I was it was golf is an obrainer and a couple of the chefs that I worked with at the lake house um were golfers and we were just hooked on it and honestly like I started at like a 36-handed cap or something like that and sort of within a year I got down to five and I got pretty decent at it and I'd had a couple of underpar rounds I sort of maybe I should do this a go like I'm getting okay to it um and me and my mate another chef said okay let's take a year off and let's find a golf academy and and let's you know just see how we go with it and um yeah obviously didn't go to plan but it was it was it was it was it was a really it was a really really fun year like honestly it's something I'm really glad I did and um yes just you know you sort of got to take a leap of faith sometimes and we didn't it sort of can pay off that that's okay you know I still learn a lot out of it so yeah and maybe it helped to bring not the passion when you got back to Melbourne but um you are still a very handy golfer what's your hand at handy cap currently I'm I'm free at the moment so um yeah I love it I'm I'm enough for it like an absolute golf sico like my my my wife probably says it's a vibe but I just say it a hobby but um yeah I I love it mate I do sort of like my obsession to be fair and I reckon if we do a little bit of research I've found um you're lucky enough to have an albatross and a couple of Halloween ones is that correct well the average it has it so I've had two holy ones and one of them was an albatross it was a holy one on a drivable path for which was just um yeah just crazy and that's insane first one yeah it was and then the first one funnily enough it was a practice round and anyone who says that they don't count on a practice round can buddy you just have to hit an old one so maybe jealous yeah exactly right but funnily enough my my first one I'd had a golf lesson maybe two or three days prior and it must have been on a Monday or Tuesday because my wife and my daughter was with me and they would often just shoot around in the cart with me and I was playing 18 holes and I said to my wife I said I can you just I want you to record my golf scene because I just want to have a look at it to see how it's looking to see if the things that I've been sort of working on were sort of you know coming to fruition in my my swing and sure enough it was on a path three and she's filming me and the bloody ball went in and she caught it on camera and it was just yeah it was crazy and then no word of a lie one year to the day after so the same date one year later was when I had the Albatross hole in one oh no oh so yeah seriously so it was like a the 140 meter 240 meter path four um it was playing pretty short that day but still kept to get driver and hit the green and just watched it roll in and just carried on like an idiot so I can imagine the celebrations the golf gods looking the M on you though hey a year to the day it was crazy it was just crazy so yeah very lucky very lucky not to have one that just sort of have two and it's just bullshit really and no doubt you'll trace a couple more hundred percent yeah so obviously you touched on not getting much of a weekend and things being a little bit difficult is golf the only thing that you feel like you're able to do away from work as a hobby or there are a couple other things that you're able to do to take your mind off work and escape the kitchen yeah now golf stuff like obviously like my wife and my daughter like we do family things outside of work like you know every other family but like personally selfishly like my my escape from from work is definitely golf I still go to the gym regularly and sort of try to look after myself like that but yeah just the gym and golf is sort of the two things that sort of like I my focus is outside of work after sure yeah fair enough mate and I imagine as a chef and as you've mentioned like love eating food going to gyms probably pretty important otherwise it might might turn pretty fair should pretty quick I guess a hundred percent mate like if anyone said me like I am just a pig of a man so it's like I just like I don't think in halves like I yeah I like to eat a lot so the gym slash golf as well like definitely help with that for sure just to find a little bit of balance I suppose yeah cool so mate you mentioned your your wife and your daughter can you explain how that all of inch way where gym eat your wife and yeah go from there yeah so I think I was saying once I sort of got back from Queensland I then moved back to Melbourne to really seat my teeth back into cooking and I sort of linked up with an old mate and he was running a restaurant in Melbourne you know a very really good one and you know the executive chefs that shown it was he's somewhat of a celebrity chef in you know Australia and had one of the you know most critically acclaimed restaurants in Australia if not the world at one stage it was very very very famous and he had opened a little bistro in Melbourne and I sort of just started doing a few breakfast shifts there and that transition didn't too you know eventually me being the head chef there and I sort of took on that role for a year and you know it's just an awesome experience sort of being mentored by you know one of my one of my really close mates and and a great chef and then obviously you know the celebrity chef in Mark Best so I did that for about a year and a half and just through like sort of changes of owners and a few other bits and pieces that ended up shutting down and Mark Best the chef had this wonderful opportunity to open up his restaurant on a cruise ship that travelled around Asia so basically he said hey we've got this eight week program we will fly into Germany we'll get on the ship we'll set up a restaurant on the ship and as it's sailing from Germany down to its home port which at the time was Singapore I think it was either a six or eight week journey we had to train the staff to open up this restaurant so we had like a six or eight week window to train the staff before we hit the home port and then it would start it's you know weekly item earlier so basically that's where I met my wife I met her the first day I started on that ship and you know we sort of just got on like a house on fire and I did six weeks or eight weeks or whatever it was and then kind of just had such an amazing time like I came back to Australia and then found out the restaurant I wasn't that I was running wasn't going to reopen so I hit Mark up I said I want to go back on board and work on board again so he ended up booking me up and I ended up back on board and I did two years on board and that's where you know my wife and I sort of started our relationship so yes it was it was an unbelievable experience honestly like you know I met Joe I got to travel the world I got to cook you know great food it was just yeah unreal yeah that that is amazing and I guess you're forever in in Mark's death I suppose for helping set you up with your wife but yeah and he reminds me of it came so no dear that's what friends are for you exactly but yeah phenomenally experienced and you know just awesome just awesome awesome and I guess just I'm gonna jump right forward to a minute like how how important is the support of your wife now that you're running two businesses and got a young daughter and I guess what she's able to do while you're away cooking you know sorts of things how how important is that oh yeah it's essential like you can't I couldn't do it if it wasn't for that's just the reality of it right so um but luckily enough I work for really fantastic people where my work life balances better than it has ever been so like we really have shared responsibilities when it comes to sort of looking after ever and my wife sort of that's worth you know 20 hours a week as well so it's sort of yeah it's all sort of panned out really beautifully to be honest but like initially air life gets on me but of course you need the spouse to help look after your kid so you can go out and sort of do what you need to do yeah but super important yep awesome so traveling around the world make cooking how what sort of experience where have you been if you've got a favorite place just interested to find out a little bit more about that yeah so on on board um so the itinerary I mean it was all throughout Asia and South East Asia so the countries were sort of in and out of to name a few was China Hong Kong Singapore Malaysia Japan Cambodia Vietnam Philippines to embrace the couple of yeah a couple of other places as well in there um so we're lucky like we were in a different country every other day so we could just get out and um go get some food go for walk around and then sort of jump back on board and then you'd go cruising again but um sort of one tat finished up I came back to Australia um for about a year and basically I did that because I was trying to set up sort of a home for when my wife's visa was approved and she could kind of settle in and then we sort of realised that the the visa process was you know laborious and very elongated the very very long long process so we decided let's find a country where we can both get sort of visa access pretty easily um and a job opportunity came up in Hong Kong so I ended up taking a job in Hong Kong and that's where we lived for you know a bit over two years and so sort of back to your question like Hong Kong Hong Kong was like as far as food it's just unreal like unreal because yes the local foods amazing but they've also got like the Japanese food in Hong Kong is phenomenal um you know then they've obviously got a lot of Western type restaurants as well with Tural just like world class so yeah Hong Kong was special like for that aspect and holds a really dear place in our hearts because that's where our that daughter was born as well so um yeah Hong Kong was epic awesome and so do some of those experiences in the different countries and probably specifically Hong Kong does that influence the way that you now cook and what you uh develop in your restaurants yeah no doubt no doubt um probably more so probably taught me more so um I probably learned yes I learned a lot about cooking but I learned a lot about probably team building and managing in that as well over there as well like that was a really big big learning for me so yes the cooking side of things was great but it was more like actually we just got to eat because in Hong Kong as well like um like spaces of premium right so like generally we've been really small places and like the place we lived in didn't have a kitchen so like you're you're constantly eating out a lot like you're always eating out so we just got to experience like so much food it was like yeah phenomenal so I probably learned a lot more about food by eating it not necessarily cooking it yeah sure yeah yeah cool uh so did it take much to convince your wife to move to Australia or was that a pretty easy decision there was pretty easy because it was funny when we first got to Hong Kong all the riots were the chicken off so that was hectic right so that was like that was crazy you would have seen it on the news and then sort of COVID decided to bob its head up um but we weren't affected by COVID not nearly as much as what Australia was um over there like there was still some restrictions and things like that but it wasn't it wasn't hectic and the government support was pretty good over there so by the time we sort of left or were leaving COVID had settled down here so like all the restrictions and flying back in and quarantine and all that had dropped off so the decision was really easy like with a three or four month old kid or six month old kid or however old she wasn't at time with sort of no family support like here there was no convincing like we were we were pretty ready to come home for sure yeah yeah fair enough uh so with that COVID stuff made I actually watched a lovely video of your big bald head on youtube this morning uh with the the Hugh Dining Chef at Home Box was that something a derivative out of COVID when people were locked down or was that sort of what are the origins of of that idea no that's exactly it so basically what was happening in Hong Kong at that time is that like you could go out for lunch but you can go out for dinner so I suppose the philosophy behind that is like like I'll say space is a premium there so like a lot of people don't have um kitchens at home so in order to eat you need to go out right so they figured if we shut down like people can go along their day normally but at night time if we sort of say like no dive no in in house dining we can get take-away and stop people sort of congregating I suppose so that that in home dining or whatever it was we were doing was exactly from that so we just wanted to create you know take home high quality meals that you could sort of follow along a really basic youtube video and you know create create one of our for a free course meal that we would do at the restaurant yeah it did look very good I was very impressed with your presentation well done there's a bit a little bit boozy wasn't it all right mate you get you get back back into os what's what's your movements now yeah so I got so one of my mates convinced me to go down to lawn and I was part of the mob that had taken over the lawn hotel so the Maryvale group a big kind of Sydney company that owns you know seven or eight sort of venues up in Sydney and they'd sort of branch down to Victoria and they'd bought the lawn pub for a lady I think thirty seven million dollars or something like that yeah no problem yeah no problem thanks for coming and yeah I was a part of the you know the senior leadership group there and you know I did two years there and sort of I'd quit bought a little place in Jolong and just the travel to and from was just crazy it was like an hour and a half each way and sort of just after two years that kind of wore a little bit thin but it was a fantastic experience I thought that was where I really probably heard the business side of of running you know a kitchen or you know understanding how the money moves within a business and how it should move more specifically and why it's moving the way it does so it's a really really great learning for me doing that but just sort of just the distance and travel was just it's just too much but I'm there did two years there when I got back from from Hong Kong and that kind of led me to where I am now finding a job in in Jolong overseeing a couple of restaurants here and we're currently looking at a third at the moment so it's sort of all happening well that's very exciting before we jump into the third which you might not be able to give too much detail to run us through the two that you are currently overseeing and yeah what that looks like and how a cast of the person could come and get a discount off you yeah yeah absolutely so the two out running ones called the Arbor's that's on Little Mallop Street you sort of like it's a restaurant bar club sort of precinct in the middle of town it's a stunning stunning venue like a beautiful venue great service great food very much one Australian so it just you know it leans into all sorts of cooking cuisines but kind of I would take a little bit Middle Eastern but still has you know influences from all over the world yep still very affordable like it's not going to break the bank like I think what you get for money wise is really really good and it's not too like the menu's not going to scare you off like if you if you're sort of not very experimental I don't think you're going to be too freaked out by dining there and the other place is meet me at Mary's which is on Packington Street another you know really trendy little street in Jolong that is all just sort of cafes and restaurants and dental boutiques and all that kind of jazz but that kind of leans into more pan-Asian so probably more my experiences from working on board and and living and working in Hong Kong and the head chef is his Malaysian born Chinese so we kind of lean into his culture and influence a little bit as well yeah but yeah two really great like beautiful venues like really beautiful venues great service and really when I taste you food so yeah come and say good day yeah awesome well hopefully it will send a few your way but is there one of either meet me at Mary's or Arborist do you work at one more than the other or do you try and share the work share the love how's that sort of look from a practical point of view from your point of view yep yep so I jump between both of them probably spend more time at the Arborist because it's it's a busy appraisal kind of requires more of my attention I suppose but yeah I spent my time between the two venues and I'm still very service I'm sorry I'm telling like I've got a head chef in each of the venues so it's really my job just to mentor them and then chop them out when they need a day off for me some time off and things like that but yeah it's spent my time between the two places yep sure awesome and recently mate you've been nominated for an award for I don't know if it's one of them or both of them so just talk me through that yeah so we had the the Jolong Business Excellent Awards recently in which we were nominated for the Business of the Year which was the main sort of Gong and then there was a lot of sort of sub categories as well and we ended up winning hospitality and tourism award which is you know it's a really big deal and even to be nominated with top award is you know and for me personally like we don't go out like seeking these awards but what I really loved about I suppose the awards ceremony was just like the other businesses and just how much these awards meant for them within the community you could see just how proud they were and you know the effort in which they gone and and then to sort of you know hold up their trophy was like massive and we were just lucky enough to get one of them I suppose so yeah for you know we we don't hang our hats on that like we're super wrapped it's it's awesome that we got one but you know for me it was just I was more I was really comfortable with the other people as well like it's just a really great night and you know great achievement to sort of for everyone and you know for us you know it's just kind of consolidates for us that you know we we do do a good thing there you know and it's just a bit of recognition so it's good no that's awesome and I think it's a true testament to the person you are like obviously lots of people probably would have in the head on them but you're more interested in how it's brought joy to a lot of other people as well and that just speaks volumes of the person that you are so well done to you. Thanks Matt. Can you give us any insight into what the third restaurant might be that you're looking at or is it sort of under wraps? It's slightly under wraps but I can say like if it happens that I will be a part owner which is really exciting because I feel like I've sort of done everything and you know the itch for me to scratch or the box and need a tick would definitely be to to be a business owner so you know it's a great location it is in Jolong and hopefully within the next six months maybe I reckon could be a little bit earlier I'm not sure but yeah it'll be a little bit more all right a little bit more on that as well. Watch your space. So make when you get some downtime and go out for a meal this day and age. Do you find that you're a critique of what you're eating or you just grateful that someone else is cooking for you? No like the latter for sure like I'm the only time I'll sort of if I'm going to lay a fair bit of cash on the line that's when I'll go like I'll be a little bit judgey but normally like number one I'm a tireter so I don't like putting money on the line for food because I know like I know how much it costs right like I get it so like normally when we go out to eat it's like cheap eat it's like it's like good Indian or it's like we'll go to the Vietnamese restaurant or go to the pub you know because we know we're going to get banking back like 10 years ago yet so I spent all my money eating in really great restaurants right because that was like that was my vibe and that's what I did but now it's sort of more like you know what suits us like I just want to be like said really and it's just nice having someone else cook for sure so yeah not judgey at all like I said if I go to a place and lay some coin on lay some coin on the line yes I will not critique but I'll you know internally critique I suppose but yeah I'm just happy to be there and just sitting down and have someone I was sort of serving and cooking for me for sure yeah fair enough mate so one thing that we probably did brush over I'm not really sure at what stage it happened in your life but you're a guest appearance on MasterChef yes yep yep that was um that was somewhere between me taking the job when I first got back to Melbourne and then getting on on the cruise ship so yeah really cool experience I was lucky enough to be a guest judge and then I think I followed up with another episode for like the grad finale or something like that but yeah really cool experience and if you ever watch back the um if you ever watch it back you'll see me so I thought it was a good idea to take up playing footy again I think you hear before in in my late 20s or possibly early 30s I can't remember and two days before filming I'd actually done my ACL at football training so I was limping around that whole day and it was like a 14-hour day in the restaurant and on set and I was just in so much pain because at that stage I didn't know I'd actually well I knew I'd done something but I didn't know I'd form the ACL um the fact that my knee was the size of a watermelon probably should have suggested that there was something pretty bad with it yeah really really fun really fun experience and um yeah it's just really cool you know and I've got so much love and sort of you know so many so many people from castive and reaching out to me and just like you know all my mates and friends and family it is yeah really really really a really cool experience yeah absolutely and I guess you'd mention about how now um what you really find uh enjoyable is helping teach people and educate people so I guess that was just another step in that direction as well yeah so it's funny because um like I was probably a little bit because that was sort of like early days of me being a head chef and I'll never forget came that because so we had earpieces in and when we'll do when we'll do the tasting and this is probably this probably shows how much like my mind sets changed with all of that it was like because to be fair like they fucked everything up that day like and like but that was my fault because I'd made it so difficult for them as well yeah um so they really they really struggled with what I had asked them to do and I remember sitting there and doing the taste test and like George and um Gary and Matt it they're asking me what I think about I'm like oh this is shit this is like good blah blah blah and they're like Anthony Anthony you've got to be more positive you've got to say three good things and one negative so we had to sort of like um cut and paste that little bit but I suppose going back to what you said about like that then it was very much about the cooking for me it was like you know ego driven like got a cookbook food like cook cook cook cook cook cook cook when like now if I was to do it you know I would be a lot more probably um you know probably train them like to show like the the challenge is really difficult for them right um but just yeah probably my my maturity as as a leader has changed a lot see them to be fair oh well shout out to the master's chef producers uh Anthony how was ready to come back and you'll you'll make it a bit easier for the contestants yeah it was a disaster like I just yeah I stitched them up the time like like every element of all the dishes were cooked when like really when I look at the guy the other team that will challenge him like he had a like a couple of little salad things and like a little raw fish dish and things like that so yeah I made it incredibly hard for them but anyway you live in your learn yeah exactly you'll get another chance for anyone at home that is listening that would like to watch that episode I believe it's season eight week three it is a team challenge and yeah you'll be able to see you'll try to fight off whatever the producers are telling me with the year to tell the contestants that might be pretty funny I reckon all right mate I've just got a couple hard to close it out um yeah obviously very grateful for your time but if tomorrow was your last day on earth what would your meal be for breakfast lunch and dinner breakfast lunch and dinner breakfast breakfast would be just like scrambled eggs on good toast with like heaps of Worcestershire sauce like I just love that shit that's amazing lunch lunch lunch it would be it would be a Vietnamese barmin roll crispy pork delicious dinner you're making me hungry I know you're a dear dinner maybe just want to maybe just man like one and man's rice like one of her old school rice of Yorkshire puddings and and things like that a little bit nostalgic I suppose yeah probably that yep that sounds like a pretty good day to me I was a salivating iron all right if you had to cook one dish as your final dish what would it be oh it would just be something for like my friend like family friends and family so there wouldn't be a dish it would be like a shared meal and what I don't know maybe like you know just a meat and three veg something grilled like a nice grilled piece of meat with potato salad maybe like some roast potatoes and then you know another like wiki salad just so we could sit around and share it I suppose absolute smorgasbord sounds good to me all right mate the last one just to finish it out what does Cassadon mean to you home like I still you know I still catch myself thinking like what would it be like to to be back there sometimes for sure like like where I am in my life right now no but like in the future potentially like I genuinely think about that sometimes and probably just you know like it was a really stable you know part of my life like we'd sort of jump around a little bit and you know that that was such a stable you know like I said part of my life so yeah maybe the two things it sort of and just you know like I said earlier like a hand like you know as you get older your friend bliss gets shorter right and you know my two or three very best mates up until this day you know from people that I met in Cassadon so for sure oh that's awesome mate and look if the stars align and it does mean that you come back down this way in use to come I'm sure to be greatly appreciated because we're dying out for a good restaurant in the area so thanks so much for your time and really appreciate you telling your story and yeah really hope everything goes well and that and that that third restaurant does pay off for you mate thanks very much appreciate that can and and what you guys are doing is amazing the fact that there's a group of people in Cassadon like producing a podcast now is just phenomenal really so keep up the good work and oh I've lovely seen to them they've been really really interesting so well done awesome thanks mil cheers they're tuned we hope you've enjoyed today's episode of one of our homegrown heroes jump over to one of our other episodes to continue the Cassadon connections journey with us please don't forget to follow our podcast and share it with your family and friends thank you for listening