Episode 178: Beyond the Wall Pt. 2

welcome to other world i'm your host jack wagner we're going to jump right back in with the second half of nina's story just a quick recap nina had just been kidnapped by a man who was pretending to be a police officer in the back of his car she was handcuffed bound and drugged with ether when nina was certain that she was moments away from death she suddenly found herself transported to another realm and had what she describes as a near-death experience that is where we left off in the last episode something i want to mention before we start during the kidnapping nina was sexually assaulted and also survived very serious life-altering physical injuries from a knife she was shot in the back of the head by a police officer at the time nina has just had a near-death experience in which she chose to come back to earth into her physical body which at this point is in the midst of a kidnapping and assault she did not know that she had been kidnapped by a police officer so she decided to leave those descriptions out of the episode but i wanted to acknowledge that they happened we're going to pick up right where we left off nina has just had a near-death experience she did not know where she was she had been moved and an unknown amount of time had elapsed this is beyond the wall part two and you're listening to other world you when the soul incarnates in her body it drops down and it's a it's uh dark it's cold it's fast and there i was and i remember on the way down i wanted to raise my hand because now i started to get physical awareness and i wanted to start to raise my hand and i wanted to start to raise my hand to start to raise my hand and say no no no no that was a wrong answer because it was so fast it it was too fast that is the only moment where i think i wish uh it would have been a little more gentle or slowly but it didn't it's it's and it's okay that it isn't but if there would be a wish this is what i in the consciousness of how humans become humans and how souls drop i want to say this is a little creation mistake well so nevertheless i come back and i find myself very hundred percent aware absolute in consciousness knowing without seeing my body this is what i get asked often did you have you been out of body did you see your body no i was inside my body and i knew i'm dead and i'm know that he thinks i am dead because he used electroshocks on my body like a taser and i feel my body goes with a chest up and things in itself together up and things in itself back together so i don't know why he did it if he wanted to make sure that i am not to revive anymore and if there was slightly life left then i would have been revived i don't know but i know that i was very present with that moment and all i could think of was my mom and i said it in the very beginning we were good friends after even when we didn't live together it was very good for both of us but when i was a child she would always watch miss marble agatha christie figure character and miss marble would always say to sherlock holmes if you want to know that somebody is really dead you just put a mirror in front of their nose and mouth because it will become foggy and i was so afraid but not in the meaning of fear not not like oh i was so afraid because then i would not have survived it was when i say i was afraid it was more like i didn't want him to know that i am alive so i could not afford to breathe and i didn't and he had his so he did this taser thing and he had his um hand palms on my chest and he was uh like pumping or like press not pumping uh pressing so i knew he was waiting for a heartbeat or to see if my heart would start to beat and i decided i won't let it beat and that moment till this day is responsible for my uh very clear message we are in charge of our lives of our body absolute because i had the power to not let my body breathe and to not let my heart beat it was me or this part that was with it it is absolute separate from the body and i was in charge so i didn't let my body breathe i didn't let the heart beat and i was just waiting waiting for the moment where i could get away and the moment came and it was so obviously i was a dead woman in this man's car and he had to get rid of the body i didn't know where i was but i knew i have to get away and the only chance to get away was having him believe i am dead so at some point he was uh the car didn't drive and he got out of the driver's seat and he walked around the car he opened the passenger door and he was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die and he carried me out the dead body and he dropped it and then he was walking to the trunk and as he walked to the trunk i hear the steps how he walks there and i hear this noise that springs i think make like and i knew this is a moment and there was a distance between us and he was walking to the trunk and i knew this is a moment there was a distance between us and he was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die and i knew this is a moment there was a distance between us and he was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die there was a distance between us and he was like oh my god i'm gonna die there was a distance between us so i have this little distance a car distance to just jump up and run and that's what i did i jumped up and i ran and i didn't know like i said i didn't know where i was so it's dark around me it's winter time of course the sun rises much later and it's cloudy right and i see a little light somewhere in the far distance and this is where i ran to not knowing where that is if that was really a light i just ran there and i was in the woods we were he and i were in the woods in a parking lot and then this parking lot would hit a road and but but it would also go a little down so i had to run up a hill i had a purse and this purse was across my shoulders and it had a little like a carabiner hook and he opened that so when i started to run and i jumped on my feet and i didn't know did i have shoes or did i have clothes on i i didn't know there was really no no thought about it it was just like like run run run and my purse started to glide down from the bag and for a moment I thought he grabbed me or he tried to grab me and then I ran faster so that was a good thing that he loosened it and he was not behind me yeah he was not there he was probably in shock um yeah and I did make it to the street now the street you know the little street light there it's one of those gas street lights a wide street just a few houses everything else was woods and one car I saw one car coming towards me but also in the distance it was not so close you and fascinating is that I in this moment shifted my view to their view so they are driving I don't know who it is right not then and I see that they see a woman or someone running out of the woods crazy on the street and that perspective and that perspective is that I'm not alone I'm not alone I'm not alone I'm not from that moment this opposite like because it wasn't me right it was them and yet inside of me something shifted and could do that I knew the chance that they would stop for me would be very low because I could it was dark still not too dark but relatively dark so it was around 7 30 a.m between 7 and 8 winter time so there have been a lot of hours passing from 1 a.m to that point and I there's just a crazy person who runs from the woods out out of the woods in the middle of the road and because I was from the nightlife and there were so many people heroin addicted I knew what crazy people look like I knew what pray what judgment could be and I knew what could come from people when there would be a crazy woman running out of the woods like that was not uncommon um that thought and I didn't want to make I could not afford that they would not stop because it was the only car and he was still there so I had to make sure they stop and I jumped on their hood they came close to me and I said I'm not alone I'm not alone I'm not alone I'm not alone and they did not go full throttle like 50 miles they did slow down because obviously they didn't want to kill me it was not that they came to stop so I had to make them stop so I jumped on the hood and then they stopped and then I slid down from the hood and I went to the passenger side because the driver's side would have been now we are in the middle of the road and when I say that I say we have not been on the right side and we have not been on the left side we were in the middle of the road because I jumped on their hood right so the driver was like maneuvering his car and if I would have run to the driver's side I would have been more close to the side where I ran out from I ran to the um passenger side and I opened the door the door was not locked and there was an older couple in the car so that was an older lady and I just grabbed her hands and kissed her hands and said I am alive I'm alive I am alive I couldn't and I kissed her hands and the tears were rolling but out of joy there was almost no memory how I survived that I had to survive something it was only I am alive deep joy so the car's full stop um I am almost on the lap of this older lady and this older couple I mean there were at least 70 75 there was a car behind them then and it was a cab driver and he couldn't pass because we were in the middle of the road so now the driver the the husband he he came out the car then he while I was knee kneeling down on the passenger doors she started to get out and then the cab driver walking so he has his car in the middle of the road and he is walking towards us and I hear them say this young lady just came out of the woods and she said she got kidnapped so and I don't remember that I don't remember that I said I got kidnapped but I may have right I I got kidnapped what I do remember that I said to her was because I was aware that I was smelling really like heavy heavy like something right like this ether it's like chloroform but ether has a more sweet scent and yet it is like you know sniffing on any kind of chemical solutions like you I mean I could have been a glue loose and I remember I told her I didn't take any drugs he gave me ether he gave you know I remember that part so I might have said he kidnapped me and then said he gave me ether and I only could say it because I knew the scent otherwise I would have said just he drugged me or something yeah so the cab driver is there now he asked he approaches me and he says is he still there now see I am at that point I mean I just got kidnapped I don't know what time it is I don't know where I'm at I just know I survived it I escaped and I know he's still there I also know that I could shift my perspective all of something has happened because of me dying in my consciousness so there was no moment where I would not have an eye like a hawk or like an eagle on the exit or entrance from that woods I had my eye on it the entire time so now the cab guy comes to me and he says is he still there and I said yeah he is and he said okay I'm going there and I said no no no no no no no no no no I I realized I had to do with a psychopath we didn't talk about someone who is just domestic not just in the meaning of it doesn't mean anything no it's awful domestic violence but this is this was a psychopath and I didn't want to be a psychopath I didn't want to bring myself more in danger neither in danger any other people around me now and still shock didn't happen yet I was still in this like joy joy euphoria because I survived right so now it becomes grounded we all know so three other people and me not knowing that my whole clothes I'm soaked in blood I am bruised and beaten up I don't know that right like I don't know that I am like swollen all over I don't know how I look like at all I did not have any kind of pain or any kind of difficulties to say something or to see because the eyes were so swollen I I was fine I say yes he's there he says I'm going I said no no no no no no no and I can feel now something is changing inside of me it became a different kind of reality uh more serious and in that moment we saw and you may remember I said I had to run uphill so he couldn't see what's going on on the street was he I mean the perpetrator and we couldn't see his car parked down there because there was this hill between us and then all of a sudden very Very slow and sneaky. No lights on. He would roll his car up the hill and we saw the front tires entering the road. And because he didn't have lights on and it was still dark enough, cloudy enough, gray enough, we couldn't see his license plate. And very slowly he was just rolling to the right and he was starting to drive away and the cab driver runs to his cab and he says, I will follow him. And then I panicked. Then I got an absolute shock and cried and screamed and said, please don't leave me. Please don't leave me because I know this older couple will not be able to defend me if he turns around. And. Will finish us all. This is, this is when the shock, like really panic and shock when I, that something happened inside that I know, oh my gosh, this is real. This is real. So the cab driver didn't leave. He stayed with me. He called the cops. The cops arrived and now everything starts to get muffled. Right. Like they talk about me in third person. And my ears become like cotton balls as if I have cotton balls in there. I can't really understand what they say. I just follow instructions. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. okay. here was a lot of the drivers driving down the road from the cab to the cab driver driving around the cab to the cab driver. we have to go to a quick break, but we'll be right back with the rest of Nina's story. that still needs answers. We'll follow every new lead, every break in the case, and the moments when a mystery is finally solved. Because after all these years, one thing hasn't changed. Someone, somewhere, knows the truth. Listen to and follow Unsolved Mysteries. Available now, wherever you get your podcasts. There was a female cop and a male cop, and they come to me and they say, okay, here's how the procedure goes. We have to go to your home. You have to change clothes. We unfortunately have to wear gloves. It's not because we think that you are gross. It is, there can be no marks from us. So they were very detailed and very gentle and very, they explained. explained every step ahead so they bring me in their car and they asked me for my address and I give them the address and I remember that I started to think oh I can relax in the back seat I'm safe now but we only drove two minutes and I was like wait and they said well is that not where you live is that the right address yeah it was my address now you have to see where I was working that was the core the heart of West Berlin or Berlin but where I was living was about 30 miles away near the forest near the lake right like nice not in downtown not in the city life it was away so now another conflict came where did he really know me from or know me from did he really know me from my night job or was I his target all along the entire time and he knows where I was living that was that was not a that was not good to fall victim one thing is that he got away but another one was that it was so close to home but he got me from where I was working so there was no safety guaranteed because I just didn't know how did he know me so I put everything back in my car and I was like oh my god I'm so sorry so I put everything in the bags and I give it to them as I take off my clothes I see oh my gosh I have blood everywhere this is the first time I notice it and I look at her and you could see he she felt so sorry and she just couldn't break down because it would have been unprofessional but she did give me a hug and then I thought okay I have to call my boyfriend before they take me so I called him I asked her if I can take a phone call if I could call my boyfriend and she said yes so I called him and he said you know what I don't have time for that and he hung up when I said hey I'm I got kidnapped and I am at home and there are the cops here I had to change my clothes we have to go to the department now for the report and then I go to the hospital you have to meet me you have to come and he said I don't have time for that and he hung up and I remember how embarrassed I felt there was this female cop and I pretended that he was still on the phone and I said yeah I understand okay I see you later I love you like as if I like oh my gosh I was so pretentious and that moment made me aware he is the absolute wrong person for me and then we went to the police station and I gave my report and we then would come to the hospital there was first like a main doctor and he said well oh my gosh and you know everybody was like oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and he said well oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and he said well oh my gosh and he said well oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and he said well oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh um because I had deep cuts next to my mouth behind like around under my ears and behind my neck because of the gag that was so deep cutting I had deep cuts in my wrists like literally cuts I had to go to a neurologist for years so I could feel my hands again but then I got to the GYN and that was the first time I felt really bad and I was like oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and I was really well I felt this one moment nice with this female cop in my bedroom and then a second time with the GYN because it was just her and I because it was a female matter female like a woman just would understand different than a man what I would need sitting in this hospital it's all done I'm and I don't know what to do where to go I didn't want to go home I was hoping my boyfriend would show up and he didn't and there I was and in my entire life that was the loneliest moment and if somebody said oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and I was like oh my gosh and I was like I feel so lonely this is what I remember and I would do anything that this person doesn't have to feel that way because this is an awful feeling there was not this moment where I was sitting on the bench and thought oh I just died we we are never alone no in that moment it was absolute human awareness and this is not what you do you you never want that somebody feels that lonely and it's beautiful because it was a great lesson in compassion there I am and then the doctor comes at some point and she says don't you want to go because you know I was just sitting there on a bench and I thought okay I'm going so she called a cab and I'm sitting in that cab and you know of course oh my gosh how do you look like what happened to you and it was that was not time the time to talk I let him drive me to the club where we would go with our customers if we would be there with them this is where I went and my dear friend she took right away care of me you know she said oh my god oh my god and that was family and I was not able to go home because nothing felt safe and if anything would have been safe then it would have been that place that I chose to go to because they were my families and at some point my boyfriend showed up there so it is Sunday right so it happened Saturday night to Sunday and then finally in the late afternoon I get home and I sleep and then Monday morning I get a phone call from one of those huge criminal lodges and I'm like oh my god what's going on here and I'm like oh my god what's going on and I'm like oh my god what's going on here and I'm like oh my god what's going on here and the guy says I have to come and he feels sorry but they have to take things for the forensic. This is not, you know, because I survive, but, you know, so I have, I am the evidence and because I am the evidence, this is how they will find him. i was convinced so i went there and we did the sketch and i'm there about like five hours in the whole institute the guy is awesome like he he was so sensitive and really a good good person and then he gives me a like a business card and he on this business card has written down a case number and there's a phone number and he says whenever you see him or whenever you think you see him you can call us hundred times because even if he isn't it 99 times it will be the hundredth time the case will never get cold and the thing why my case never got cold was because he said he is a cop and the government or the state doesn't like that that is what happened then that he got not caught for a very long time i even when i could remember somewhat the license played there he was not caught and then i thought i will never have peace as long as this man runs free And the only way to make sure if there is any chance is believing Miss Marple, because Miss Marple also said, and it sounds naive, but it worked for me, that the perpetrator always comes back to the scene of crime. So there was no chance I could not go. I had to return to my job. And I wouldn't have if he would have caught. No way. I was traumatized. So because it was not an option to not go back, because I was hoping Ms. Marple was right. She said they will come back. So I had to go out there. I was much more careful now. It was, I was more educated there. When you get arrested, it always has to be a woman and a man, if you are a woman, and always two people. So, and because I have never been in trouble before, of course, I didn't know those things. I always had my card. And it was not cell phone time like we have today. We had phone booths, right? So, but I had my little wallet and I had my, this case number, business card and the phone number in there. And some days you would think about, I would think about it some days I didn't. It was just something, you know, it's like you have your wallet and you have that in there for years and you never cleared it out or I didn't think about it every day. And then I was in the same place and he rolls with a car and he steps out, he walks towards me. And he, I mean, it was so him, it was so him. It like, there was, it was like time stood still that i thought oh my god here he is oh my god and my knees started to shake and my heart started to beat so fast and i i have started to shake three and a half years later april 92 and he walked towards me and he said the same line i have to arrest you we have to interview you about your boyfriend this man didn't recognize me i don't know what he did in those three and a half years but that he encountered me and that he did not know that he already had me once is either because he was really so sick like thick or this is just divine destiny on its highest level nobody could have identified him like i could So, I look at him, I'm super nervous, I'm scared, I'm excited, like all emotions you can imagine, I want to scream, I want to jump on his neck, I want to beat the crap out of him, I want to run away, I want to hide, I want to scream for help, like every emotion you can imagine was there, very present, as if we had a bubble around us. And I looked him straight in the eyes and I said, I don't have time for games. And I walked away. And in the street where I was, there was no telephone booth. So I had to go through the corner and then a little street and then go to the main street where also I had colleagues out there. And they needed to know, no matter what he is saying, that he is a guy who kidnapped me three and a half years earlier. under no circumstances go with him right like so there were no several tasks I had to achieve so I had to I walked in the direction where the telephone booth is and I also had there was also a colleague of friend of well yeah colleague let's say colleague of mine where I knew that she always had her pimp around so he would tell every other woman do not go with this guy because now we had also the license plate and she said oh my gosh he already he already approached me but something fell off with him and I was oh my gosh so he is in his car and he is still driving in a in around the block so I walked to the get to the booth I continue walking I go to the booth and I call this phone number that I got and I guess the case number and I said he is here here is where I'm at and I don't know took three minutes because it's you know it's downtown it's And a lot of undercover cops always on the road there because it's, you know, nightlife. And at the end, when they finally stopped him and got him out, there were over 12 cop cars. Big vans, small vans, undercover cars, even the security people from around were there. and they with guns and they jumped from the side with the guns and dragged him out he was a bad guy and everybody was happy he never admitted it but because they found so much evidence and his lawyer was as much as good he was there was nothing that indicated I would lie or I would add something that didn't happen or I would add something that didn't happen or you know they found all the evidence in his car they later found evidence at his home and it was obvious that the judges were so upset with him and I don't know if they felt like there was some higher instance behind him that had so much money to try anything that he would not stay behind bars because they were looking, he was warranted before even my case. They were looking for a guy who was harming women by saying he is a cop. They really were after him and I was the only witness. The job that he had at the time of my kidnapping, that was a job that allowed him to have access to a radio, to handcuffs and he actually got fired there because he overstepped several boundaries. I can't say what it was but it was not a cop but it is definitely a field where he grew into this energy of playing a bad cop. Definitely. That was not his job anymore because I said he got fired. He worked something completely different and he had, when you think about it, it is almost like this is where a mafia, one in those lines would work if they want to get rid of bodies. So this is as scurril as it sounds. Like I, you know, if you wanted to get rid and you just have to do a little thinking, right? Like what kind of areas would that be? How, where would it be as easy as to get rid of a body? This is what he, but then was his job. So after he got arrested, I was still in this routine and it was not only his arrest. It was actually then that I worked less. There was no, I didn't feel drawn anymore to go out there. I, at that time, have already been separated from my boyfriend. So I'm 23 now. And so it happened when I was 20. Now I'm 23 and I went more on vacation. I would do something more fun with the money that I had. I worked a lot to save a lot of money, but then, you know, I didn't have to provide for my boyfriend anymore and I could go more on vacation. And now I was like out there and I didn't even know, it didn't make any sense anymore. And I remember, after the trial and he was behind bars, got convicted, I was standing out there and I was wearing my normal clothes and I was wearing glasses and I was like, what am I doing here? And it was like as if somebody would have snipped with their finger and saying, I don't know. And I left. As if I have, there was nothing. Like it was really as if somebody opened my eyes, as if the only reason why I started in the first place was to get this bad man off and save a lot of women's life and bring a lot of peace to other families. It was really like this, as if somebody wiped my eyes. And then I wanted to go back to school because I wanted to become a religious. I wanted to become a religion teacher. But now from nightlife to daylife to complete different people, I had to learn. So I started voluntarily a work to work with heroin-addicted teenagers that would go on the street to make money. It called Wednesday Initiative and we would help those young women and women, and most also their boyfriends, to get off the heroin, go in methadone programs. We cooked for them. We gave them fresh needles, fresh condoms. We made HIV prevention work. And I got fulfillment. And that is when I first met, again, more normal people. Like not from the nightlife. It's a complete different life. Complete different people. Complete different laws. And then I decided, because it was in the, in the rooms from the church, this is where I met my beautiful friend who was a pastor. I could give him what I wrote. I could ask him. Then we wrote assignments together that he would hold on Sundays. And I said, I want to be a nun. And he said, you can't be a nun. And I said, yeah, I want to marry Jesus. And I want to live in a monastery. The world is so crucial. And I love God so much or the source of life, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, now I understand why women want to marry Jesus. And this is what I want to do. How, how do I become a nun? And he said, this is not you. This is not your destiny. This all did not happen to you to hide in a monastery. Why don't you become a religion teacher? And then I thought, this is what I want to be. And I wanted to be a religion teacher for muted and deaf children. So I went back to school to get a higher degree, a degree I could go to the university with and I became a religion teacher. And then with 27, I got leukemia. And I healed that, but I had to start the chemotherapy and I quit the chemotherapy. But that did not allow me to have children for a very long time because the DNA is so altered through a chemo. But then as soon I could get pregnant, I did get pregnant. And I raised a beautiful son. He's very spiritual, very grounded at the same time. One of the most beautiful beings I know. And I'm a grandma. And today I work with a lot of people, a medium, like as a medium, or help them to become authentic and give their life meaning. This is what I'm doing. And I'm still writing. I'm an author. I'm an author. I'm an author. I'm an author. When you died, like I have, that involved physical trauma. And this is only what I can speak of. And in my journey and overcoming this trauma, which is a journey, I think that I'm going to be able to do it. And I think that I'm going to be able to do it. It is so very important that we understand that we are so much more than the body, but not using it as escapism. We want to use it today, now, here within the body. If you are sick, here, know what made you sick. If you are unhappy or in an unhappy relationship, don't stay. The life is so short. Or have a great communication. I'm not saying, oh, just run from one person to another. Or run away from your family. No, I believe it belongs together, but it's only possible when we give ourselves a voice. And if we help others to find theirs and respect theirs. And claims of respect, and we can lead in love. Like, it doesn't have to be combative or fighting. It's leading. I am me, and you are you, and you are just as divine as I am. And if we encounter anything and everyone with that knowledge, there can't be conflict in the world. It's impossible. We have so much respect for life within everyone. When people say, and this is something that I really would like to address in the long run, when people say, this life doesn't matter because you are so much more than your body. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You misunderstand something. wouldn't be here you wouldn't be here if this wouldn't matter you got a body and you got a body for a reason yeah that's it i want to give a very sincere thank you to nina for sharing this story with us like i mentioned her original email was very concise and when i sat down with her and started asking questions i was so shocked as she began describing the entirety of her life story she has lived through so much and it was an honor to hear it this was one of my longest interviews over six hours you shout out to hayley parison for doing such an excellent job editing it what nina went through is shocking on so many levels something i've been thinking about is that near-death experiences come in many forms but people who have them report many common themes these themes are actually tracked and measured by something called the grayson scale created by dr bruce grayson who i've interviewed on the show and the grayson scale tracks 16 common themes and the grayson scale tracks 17 common themes that people describe in their ndes one of these is being able to perceive things that normally should have been out of sight from one's actual point of view at the time like for instance somebody unconscious undergoing surgery witnessing a conversation that the doctor is having several rooms away which to me sounds a lot like what was happening to nina after her nde supposedly ended and during her escape that time she saw from the point of view of that couple who rescued her she saw herself in the road from their perspective i find that very interesting and it makes me wonder if her nde was going on longer than she realized and maybe even started earlier as well it's hard to say and part of the reason for that is that i think it's a very interesting story and part of the reason for that is that there are still many mysteries about this whole thing that remain to this day germany has extremely strict privacy laws when it comes to their justice system it's very hard for the public to get access to information about investigations or trials the names of both victims and criminals are kept anonymous in any public release of information or reporting about a case it's really the opposite of how things work in the media and in the public media so i think it's important for us to be aware of how things work in the united states so nina knows a little bit about her attacker but not as much as she would if this occurred somewhere else maybe that's for the best i'm not sure so while i don't know how many other people this man might have kidnapped or why he did it i think it's safe to say that nina probably saved the lives of many of the people who had with him three years later thank you so much again to nina for talking to me and sharing this incredible story this episode was called beyond the wall part two and you've been listening to other world other world is executive produced and hosted by myself jack wagner our producers are theo shaffer theo kranz hayley pearson and nikki k delgado our theme song is by cobra man the soundtrack of this episode is by wicca phase springs eternal juice jackal and north americans our artwork is by cul-de-sac studios please show us your support by subscribing leaving a five-star review and telling your friends about the show if you want to hear bonus episodes of other world you could become a patron at patreon.com other world our social media is at other world pod thank you to the team at odyssey leah reese dennis mora curran josephina france francis eric donnelly kate rose colin gainer and hillary shuff follow and listen to other world now for free on the odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts and finally if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal supernatural or unexplained you could send us your stories at stories at otherworldpod.com you