Episode 177: Beyond the Wall Pt. 1

Welcome to Otherworld, I'm your host, Jack Wagner. Part of the reason I wanted to start this show in the first place is that I knew that so many people are out there who have experienced something unexplainable, but don't feel comfortable talking about it for a variety of reasons. I'm sure everybody's heard me say that many times. I also suspected that there might be many people who have lived through incredible but non-paranormal events in their lives that they do talk about, but maybe have one strange, unexplainable aspect of that story that they leave out of the version they tell to the public because it's just too weird or hard to explain. I used to find myself wondering how many of the people I'd see on the news every night who had gone through the most extreme things in life had something like that. A strange, unexplainable part of their story that they've always kept to themselves. It's always been my hope that I could end up being able to talk to some of these people and hear the full version of already shocking stories. This episode is one of those. Although for the most part, this story is a story that I've never heard before, I've never heard of. The story is not about the paranormal. It is far more intense than most episodes and I think you'll understand what I mean once you hear it. It comes from a German woman named Nina and it takes place in 1989 in West Germany, right after the fall of the Berlin Wall. For those unfamiliar, Germany was divided up after World War II. West Germany being supported by the Soviet Union, the wall was built between these sides later on, dividing the city of Berlin in half. And the wall became a powerful symbol of the Cold War. In 1989, the wall was physically torn down by protesters and eventually Germany unified into one. I say all of this because I think it's so wild to me to know that this story takes place immediately in the wake of that event. And if you have any photos or videos of the wall coming down, I highly recommend looking that up so you fully understand. Nina has been through so much in her life. She has an incredible life story. I spoke to her for over six hours and feel very lucky to have heard all of this. What's interesting is that Nina was very concise in her original submission. She was very matter-of-fact and to the point. She did not include much about her story. She did not include herself in that email. And I only learned certain things while reading the very limited amount of information available about what happened to her. I ended up asking her about these things early into the interview and wound up learning a lot more about Nina's life than I ever expected. It turns out that Nina had a quite difficult childhood and is a survivor of sex trafficking. At a very young age, she found herself in the red light district of West Germany. West Berlin, which is where the story takes place. So that's where we will begin. And there is a lot more coming. I'm going to let Nina take it from here and tell the rest herself. I don't want to give any spoilers, but this episode covers many difficult topics, sex trafficking, violence, assault, abuse. There is a lot. And I just want to give a blanket warning before we start. This episode is called Beyond the Wall, Part One. And you're listening to Otherworld. Hello? Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue with. I'm worried about all the science. Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die. It's limbs were just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. But I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. My name is Nina Ashbourne. I am over 50 years young. I live very close with my family. We have private property and I love gardening there. And I am an author. I help people in crisis. Well, not in crises, but to understand themselves better or through grief. I grew up in West Berlin when the wall was still up. And so original, my family came from the south of Germany, which was Bavaria. And my mom divorced my dad and she moved to West Berlin because it offered much more freedom and more. open-minded people and the reason it was so was because after the second world war when the four allies got together the west part of germany including west berlin this is why it called west berlin was occupied by france england and americans because the germans were not allowed to have unsupervised military anymore after that happened with hitler so berlin west berlin was a very artistic very spiritual um growing up with those i see that today as a privilege so it you would feel safe so i grew up as a teenager where you could always find a bus that would bring you home and you would be able to go to your home and you would be able to go to your you would always find a subway to get you home it was not a city where you had to be careful or you had to watch yourself because this was a ghetto area or something no it was really very uh protected open no matter if you were part of nightlife or day life or both like i was i was 20 or you know i was my whole teenage years there but like it was 15 16 when you start to discover discotheques this is where you would go and you would always feel safe to go home no matter what time or even you know when we experimented with drinking we would always watch out for each other when we were in west berlin we still had the subways that would pass part of east berlin so east berlin is like the other half from berlin right from the whole berlin which they just divided so the subways that we used would also go through the dark through the train stations from the east side which we were not allowed to so the train slowed down the lights were just little lights on the train stations there were east russian soldiers and it was always said don't open the door they have fire on you so for a child like me or a girl i always thought there's no sun in the in east berlin there was no sun shining because we always had to take the subway and it was always dark so as a teenager in west berlin and having a mom like i had my mom was not she didn't want to be a mom and because i was a very sensitive girl and i think this is important for to understand my entire story is that my mom decided when i was 12 years young to give me away not because i was a bad girl or did things i shouldn't have done it was because i needed her attention that she was not willing to give so i was always calling her saying mom come home mom do this with me mom i want to do homework please come come come and my sister was different my sister was more at home boy i was not i played with dolls and all my teddy bears i was playing with butterflies i was a complete different breed than my sister and i needed my mom and that was too much for my mom and my mom would bring me to a place um usually runaway kids run to so with 12 she would pick me up when i had a sleepover and all my suitcases were already in the car. she just dropped me off and that was the story with my mom we had a very great relationship all those years after I'm just saying that but back to when I was 12 this is what my mom did and I was allowed to find myself a new home the new home because I was a very like I said very gentle girl well-mannered the government or the state they saw for me to be in a place where I would learn to ride a horse and like mother fancy and I didn't want to there were over 200 girls and I was scared so I found a little home and it's tough for a 12 year old to find her home so I found a home that had 11 other teenagers it was supervised we all lived together like roommates it was a very awesome a very awesome time to look back to now you have to imagine there of course is happening a trauma right there's a 12 year old girl she doesn't know that her mom doesn't want to have her anymore she right like so that that was of course traumatic for me as a kid I appreciated the home I was living in and I was able to find a new home and I was able to find a new home and I was able to find a new place where I was in but then it settled down with 16 I got my first apartment and I still saw once a week my supervisor and I worked after school in a daycare voluntarily it was just something I wanted to do and then when I was 17 I met I got a dog my first dog and I took a walk with that dog and in the park and there was a man a very good looking man he came to me and said well it must be very difficult to train a young dog all yourself and I looked at him and I said oh my gosh he looks so nice he and he was so kind and I said no it's okay I you know I I'm learning and then he said if you want to you know we can have a hot chocolate it was no time where I was drinking coffee so it was hot chocolate so I met him and then we met again we started to date and we dated more and more and more and more and I fell in love with him I was 17 and he was probably 25 26 I felt wrong about him he was probably 25 26 I felt wrong about him he was probably 25 26 I felt wrong about him I would listen to him I learned from him and I was I would listen to him I learned from him and I was in love with him and then one day he said hey in love with him and then one day he said hey in love with him and then one day he said hey on Sunday we will have a meeting and I want to on Sunday we will have a meeting and I want to on Sunday we will have a meeting and I want to introduce you to very rich people and you introduce you to very rich people and you introduce you to very rich people and you have to dress nicely and I remember I have to dress nicely and I remember I have to dress nicely and I remember I told my sister and myself because I said told my sister and myself because I said told my sister and myself because I said what do I wear I don't know what to wear what do I wear I don't know what to wear what do I wear I don't know what to wear and she said I help you to put stuff and she said I help you to put stuff and she said I help you to put stuff together and she when I told her she she together and she when I told her she she together and she when I told her she she said don't go there is something off said don't go there is something off said don't go there is something off and it was but I didn't listen because I and it was but I didn't listen because I and it was but I didn't listen because I was in love of course I wanted to do it was in love of course I wanted to do it was in love of course I wanted to do it so he picked me up I addressed nicely I so he picked me up I addressed nicely I so he picked me up I addressed nicely I I had my makeup on and I would come to I had my makeup on and I would come to I had my makeup on and I would come to this place and there were eight men this place and there were eight men this place and there were eight men sitting in suits around a big long table sitting in suits around a big long table sitting in suits around a big long table so we sat down and everything was so we sat down and everything was so we sat down and everything was focused on me so she is the one she focused on me so she is the one she focused on me so she is the one she wants to do that are you sure and he wants to do that are you sure and he wants to do that are you sure and he said yeah I'm sure said yeah I'm sure said yeah I'm sure and I was not supposed to say anything so I and I was not supposed to say anything so I and I was not supposed to say anything so I didn't and then the boss there would didn't and then the boss there would didn't and then the boss there would say okay then she starts next Sunday at say okay then she starts next Sunday at say okay then she starts next Sunday at 7:00 p.m. and I didn't know what it 7:00 p.m. and I didn't know what it meant and then on the way back when he meant and then on the way back when he meant and then on the way back when he brought me back home he explained that I brought me back home he explained that I brought me back home he explained that I have to work in a kind of like hotel have to work in a kind of like hotel have to work in a kind of like hotel environment with rich people to escort environment with rich people to escort environment with rich people to escort them and I said I can't oh my god oh my god and I said I can't oh my god oh my god and I said I can't oh my god oh my god like no and I started to cry I have a like no and I started to cry I have a like no and I started to cry I have a super overwhelmed and then he got very super overwhelmed and then he got very super overwhelmed and then he got very upset and he hit this fit with his fist upset and he hit this fit with his fist upset and he hit this fit with his fist his doors from inside the car and he his doors from inside the car and he his doors from inside the car and he would say I paid a lot of money for would say I paid a lot of money for would say I paid a lot of money for doing so and if you don't do it now doing so and if you don't do it now doing so and if you don't do it now they're gonna kill me I am 17 still they're gonna kill me I am 17 still they're gonna kill me I am 17 still West Berlin was a war right so I did West Berlin was a war right so I did West Berlin was a war right so I did go crying and it was said okay here is a go crying and it was said okay here is a go crying and it was said okay here is a bar and if you have a customer yours bar and if you have a customer yours bar and if you have a customer yours you have to have him buying you in you have to have him buying you in you have to have him buying you in the drink if he doesn't buy the drink you the drink if he doesn't buy the drink you the drink if he doesn't buy the drink you have to pay for the drink if you buy have to pay for the drink if you buy have to pay for the drink if you buy if he buys champagne you have like ten if he buys champagne you have like ten if he buys champagne you have like ten customers for free like several words customers for free like several words customers for free like several words there were words and I panic more and there were words and I panic more and there were words and I panic more and more there was a woman and she came and more there was a woman and she came and more there was a woman and she came and she would say so what's your name and I she would say so what's your name and I she would say so what's your name and I told her my name and she said no no no told her my name and she said no no no told her my name and she said no no no no no no you can't have your real name no no no no no you can't have your real name no no no no no no you can't have your real name here so I invented a different here so I invented a different here so I invented a different name and because I didn't know how to wear name and because I didn't know how to wear name and because I didn't know how to wear makeup I didn't know what to wear I makeup I didn't know what to wear I makeup I didn't know what to wear I didn't know what to do this fancy didn't know what to do this fancy didn't know what to do this fancy society world was not something that I society world was not something that I society world was not something that I have explored yet it was fascinating to have explored yet it was fascinating to have explored yet it was fascinating to me so she took me under her wing and she me so she took me under her wing and she me so she took me under her wing and she showed me how to put makeup on how to do showed me how to put makeup on how to do showed me how to put makeup on how to do my hair how to style myself how to not my hair how to style myself how to not my hair how to style myself how to not walk go for cheap perfume was all about walk go for cheap perfume was all about walk go for cheap perfume was all about being classy having good material on being classy having good material on being classy having good material on your body because this is important for your body because this is important for your body because this is important for your skin I mean it was so your skin I mean it was so your skin I mean it was so educative and it was so fascinating to educative and it was so fascinating to educative and it was so fascinating to me it was nothing at that time then even me it was nothing at that time then even me it was nothing at that time then even when I was scared where I felt forced to when I was scared where I felt forced to when I was scared where I felt forced to because it was a new world it was so because it was a new world it was so because it was a new world it was so fascinating and we women became sisters fascinating and we women became sisters fascinating and we women became sisters and I was very welcome there we women and I was very welcome there we women and I was very welcome there we women hold together and we help each other we hold together and we help each other we hold together and we help each other we reach out for each other then the lady reach out for each other then the lady reach out for each other then the lady um who took me under her wing um who took me under her wing um who took me under her wing because I was 17 because I was 17 because I was 17 right and even if it was allowed the right and even if it was allowed the right and even if it was allowed the let's say the word prostitution no let's say the word prostitution no let's say the word prostitution no matter under what if you say hostess if matter under what if you say hostess if matter under what if you say hostess if you say escort no matter what you want you say escort no matter what you want you say escort no matter what you want to put on it right it would come down to to put on it right it would come down to to put on it right it would come down to eventually that you have a customer who eventually that you have a customer who eventually that you have a customer who wants to have into being intimate with wants to have into being intimate with wants to have into being intimate with you you you we don't have to put a blind eye on we don't have to put a blind eye on we don't have to put a blind eye on that that that and yet this lady who put me under her and yet this lady who put me under her and yet this lady who put me under her wing she knew two things once I was 17 wing she knew two things once I was 17 wing she knew two things once I was 17 it's not allowed everybody knew and that it's not allowed everybody knew and that it's not allowed everybody knew and that was a great protection for me the other was a great protection for me the other was a great protection for me the other part was that she said important is that part was that she said important is that part was that she said important is that you will do anything so that you don't you will do anything so that you don't you will do anything so that you don't have to sell your body and here's how have to sell your body and here's how have to sell your body and here's how and she taught me she initiated me and and she taught me she initiated me and and she taught me she initiated me and she did it by that she would never let she did it by that she would never let she did it by that she would never let me be alone she would say in the first me be alone she would say in the first me be alone she would say in the first month of your work I will take you with month of your work I will take you with and you observe how I communicate with the client. And I did. And I learned. I aligned with my customers. Those were customers like doctors, lawyers, scientists, like really high society people. It was not about having sex. It was about either when they were married. It was such an unhappy marriage for so many reasons. And we were the one who would understand them. So my teacher, so to speak, she taught me how to really listen and how to remember what they shared with you so when they see you again that you could ask, hey, how's your daughter? Did she pass the test? How was this deal that you were about to sign? And I learned to interact with people in a way that they felt seen. And the advantage for me was that I was protected. There was not one man in the entire career at that time that was unhappy and said, I just want to have sex with you. Not once. nevertheless there was still the whole pimp milieu right the whole pimp stories so the man that i had and he becomes again a typical nina story this man to meet with those men how he got there and how he had the idea that he would have to that he wanted to have a woman walking for him this is how we would call it she's walking for him right so i am his prostitute so his parents have been separated his father was part of the hell angels he has never met when he knew and learned about his father he knew that his father delivered young women to the whole prostitution pimp milieu field so now he was 26 of what he was 26 27 maybe he learned that about his dad that he has never met and that when he learned about it was when he met me in the park and he wanted to be a good boy and this is how he contacted his father i have a girl that wants to work in that field can you help me they have never met before and this is why he flipped when i said i don't want to do it it was not because he was afraid they could uh beat him up or kill him like he yelled at me no it was he wanted to be the good son in the eyes of his father what was the split like what was he taking from you each client he would come and he would say so how much did you make i would say 300 on this one client and then he said give it to me i never kept a penny oh my god and then the girls would ask me between clients they said why is he always showing up this is not typical usually the man drops off the pimp man drops off the woman they leave and then at midnight or two three a.m they come pick you up and then you tell them how much you made and you keep a certain amount why because you have to buy clothes you have to buy makeup you have to take care you know you go to beauticians and you you you know you take care of yourself and he took everything so they started to ask me and i said oh so you keep money like i didn't i had no i mean i was so innocent i had no clue what the rules were i you know grew into them and with that i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry and with them and then they complained at the main boss and they said he's coming after every customer he is taking all her money she has nothing she is not allowed to keep anything and we want him gone and he got kicked out by the main boss he said if you ever come close to her again if you ever show up here you will be in trouble so they paid him out because he paid his dad for me or you know the father had to pay those people so here they are out of honor like i said there were laws of honor unspoken so he got paid out and it was agreed on that he will never ever be part of that nightlife again and here i was with no pimp okay we have to take a quick break but we'll be right back with the rest of nina's story you so the new guy came and he said i know who you are it's okay for you to be here but you have to pay me a weekly fee and i make it very low for you you don't have to have a man because i made myself a name by now i was very honored i was appreciated and then i met my boyfriend so it was easy to go back it was in the beginning with my boyfriend of course conflicts he was sad he didn't like it and um then he just sniffed the money too and you know i spoiled him and it was an easier to accept and to live with so before the war came down so we are now in 18 1989 and it started if you see the geographic part we had concerts in front of it called it's a very monumental historical place and there were always concerts it was a place where hitler had his rules from and we had always concerts towards our side and now it started in the very beginning of the year like let's say around march 89 april 89 forward we had concerts there but the loudspeakers were turned around to the east side and artists from around the world like bruce springsteen david has a half they would sing songs also german artists they would start to sing songs you are not forgotten we help you we are here we go through that and that caused that on the east berlin side people started to go on the streets the first time in over 25 27 years they were not afraid anymore to get killed that was always there were many people killed and now they started to revolt and we heard that in our news and we thought like oh my gosh but nobody would ever think that the wall came would come down that was never it occurred to no one not on the east side neither on the west side so it was a thursday night and i was out with my friends and we walked the streets around and i got really emotional in that moment because it's like 7 p.m and the streets are just normal normal cars like always thursday nights like it was just west berlin night or evening life you would know you go to a bar you go to a club and all of a sudden the whole scenery changed all of a sudden there were so many cars and they stink they're cheap cars and you just know those are from the east the west side would not build those cars and they were all of a sudden traffic it was like in in between like 20 minutes from 7 p.m on to 7 30 all of a sudden there was traffic everywhere stinky cars and they were all over the city cars the cars were stinky because of the gasoline that they used i don't know if it was diesel or even less than diesel nobody could go forward or backwards this the berlin was full it was so full and we would say what happened like you know people had their windows down it's cold it's november and they had the windows rolled down and we said what happened what happened and people were screaming saying the wall came down and we said what happened what happened and people were screaming saying the wall came down the wall came down and all of a sudden everything has changed because the people were not only insider it was not the people from west berlin all of a sudden the borders were open we had people in tremendous amounts from poland from romania and they do really have mafia going on and we have not been used to it and we have not been used to it used to those even those pimps or those business pimp man you know they had their jobs and had their positions and have been honored and acknowledged and all of a sudden the especially romania they came and they would just they say i want to have this part of the street so how do i get in there yeah you can't well we will see and then all of a sudden it was very brutal it became violent brutal and all those unspoken codes of honor didn't count anymore and what happened then one night was so my at that time still boyfriend he started to hang out with the wrong people and he changed his character has changed well he changed his character has changed and I could not rely on him anymore. But we had the plan that we would save all the money that I give him in trust, and he invests in trust. He became very sloppy. He would start to hang out with other women, and he started to take cocaine, and, yeah, there were drug deals involved. So there was a lot of things that I didn't even know because this is nothing you speak with your woman about. Yeah, and then one night when I was outside, I was waiting for my boyfriend. We had a date for 1 a.m., and then he didn't show up, and five minutes later, this undercover cop showed up instead. A man, he pulled up with his car, and he came towards me, and he said, I have to arrest you because we have to ask questions about your boyfriend. He had, like, an undercover car, and so when he pulled up and he was wearing, like, those cuffs on his belt, he had a radio in his hand, he had a badge. There was no indication for me to doubt. There was no spark of doubt. I believed he was an undercover cop. We just didn't know them, or I just didn't know him because usually we would know them, right? You stand there, there's a cop. He says he has to arrest you. He says he has to arrest you because they want to ask you questions, so now it was plural. It was not him alone. And it was, for me, clear, it was just about the transportation, right? So I go in his undercover car, and we would go to the police department. This is what I believed is going to happen. It is December. The wall was down three and a half weeks, so everything was still. very new it was like okay so we go there and you know there were short moments where I thought why would we go to that police department why would why wouldn't we go to the other one they were like short moments where thoughts come up and yet there was still no doubt he's a cop and I wanted to protect my boyfriend because I was at that point so concerned about him I'm 20 years now I'm with him for or know him for over a year and we are together for nine months and I wanted to protect him because I was so worried about him that he meets and hangs around with the wrong people and I thought oh my gosh this might be it so I will protect him and then he and I can have a conversation later and say hey we should withdraw from the entire scenery and that was the only moment where I thought okay if I get jailed or if I have to go into an interview I will not have fresh air so I rolled down the window while I was doing it there was a second where I thought I should scream out and say somebody has to write down the driver the license plate and I said okay I'm going to write down the license plate and I said okay I'm going to write down the license plate and I said okay I'm going to write down the license plate and I said okay I'm going to write down the license plate and I said okay I'm going to write down the license plate this was just like a tiny itty moment but I didn't I did not scream so now I roll down the window the traffic light turns green and he says roll up the window so I have no handcuffs or nothing right I'm still free ish and she said and I said no if I you know if I have to be with you now in the department I tried to get fresh air as much as I can which was sassy for me which I was that was not typical for my character so there might have been something that I felt intuitively but I can't really recall but still it was no doubt he is a cop it was not about like oh could he be a fake cop I that for me he was still a cop in my entire well not the entire time at some point it changed but at that time absolutely so now he didn't like it that the window was open because he knew what he wanted to do I didn't so he stopped his car and he said okay I have to put handcuffs on you and I voluntarily like right like voluntarily would hand him my hands in front of me I put them I put my wrists over as over cross and I said here do it and he said no not in front of you in the back and I was still okay so I bent forward and I put my hands in the on the back of my back and he puts the handcuffs on and they have been very tight like really tight I have never been in handcuffs before but it was definitely not necessary to have them so tight and then he rolled up the window and he knew that was a moment he knew he got me and then we kept driving and it was still in the direction of the police department I was still convinced it's a cop and then I said hey can you loosen them a little bit like they cut my my wrists and he didn't answer there was no he knew he got me and we passed the police department and as we pass he says before we go there we go somewhere else and in that moment I had really fast heartbeats it started that I not panicked but I thought oh my gosh this is one of those cops that beat up prostitutes or escorts or you know like you know from movies and then he you know I will come all bruised up to the police department and he will not admit that it was him still convinced he is a cop now as we pass when you know that area a little the police department was in a nearby one of the main parks beautiful park in Berlin so when he passed there there was right behind it a little area where truck drivers could park overnight so they got their sleep and it was a little downhill and there was no truck driver it was just him and I and I was in a little bit of a bad mood and he got his car to stop I was still convinced now I thought okay I will get raped I will get beaten up and then we will go to the police department that's what I thought but that did not happen what happened was so he turns on the interior light and he pulls from the back seats a backpack in the middle between the passenger and the driver's seat and he pulls from the back seats a on this console and he opens it every move was like he knew he every move was so precise and then he pulled out a head a knitted head and he pulled it over my head so now i have my visual sent uh it's gone so now everything was about what i what i hear his breathing his arm motions i was very dependent now on my ears still thinking it's a cop and i could see through those little because it was a knitted head you know they had those little loops and you still see the light so i knew the interior light was still on but he was busy with his backpack he was doing things and then i heard a canister with a liquid in there you can hear that you know those noises from those aluminum cans or what they're made out of and you hear liquid in there and i thought oh my gosh this is the guy who burns women alive this is gasoline this is it i'm going to die and this is what i then was convinced of and this is what i then was convinced of and this is what i then was convinced of that now he will pour gasoline over me that now he will pour gasoline over me that now he will pour gasoline over me and will lit me up and i'm going going to die, burned to death, alive. And I started to take deep breaths and was just, okay, this is it. It's over. It's done. It's like your life, it's gone. But instead, that didn't happen. I heard a cloth, and this cloth was going in that container. And I started to smell ether. And I knew the scent because, like I said, I wanted to be a veterinarian since I was eight. And when I was in eighth grade, we could work somewhere for two weeks in the area. We wanted to work in the future just to see how it is. So I worked as a veterinarian. And with the ether liquid, we would take bandages off the fur from the animals. So I knew the scent. So he used his, he used that cloth, and he was, so see, I'm in the car with the head over, and then he just puts it over my nose and mouth, and he presses it on it, and it's wet. It's soaked wet. And I think, don't breathe it in. But then. And out I was. So the next thing that I remember is that I thought I'm on an island in a hammock. The view of the ocean. And I am just very happy because I'm on this island. And there's a water. And there's a warm breeze from the wind. From the warm wind, from this beautiful island, and from this beautiful ocean. This is the first I remember after getting knocked out. And not knowing I was getting knocked out. So I'm on this island. And then I hear like. And I realize, Vatama, there's a, now reality has come. That's why the brain tries to make sense out of it. And it was a heater that I heard. And the warm wind was from the heater system because, as I said, it was December. So he had the heater on. And very slow, I came out of this island, out of this hammock. And I thought, wait, wait, wait. Oh, my wrists are hurting. Why are my wrists? So hurting. Because I was laying on them and the handcuffs were so tight. So I was in pain. And the pain started to increase the more conscious I became. And I don't know if I made any noises. But I became very. So the puzzle pieces came together. Wait, you have been out there. There was this guy. He said, he's a cop. And you, I replayed very slowly. And then, oh, my gosh, I'm still here. This was not a dream. Oh, my gosh. I'm, you know, like, I, I realize I'm in a, he didn't kill me. And I don't know what he's up to. And I panic. So this panic, I mean, I wanted to pull up my legs and I wanted to hit him. And I don't know where we are. I have no clue. Are we still? On that parking lot, did we drive? Were we driving while I was waking up? I have no idea. This is, there's no, I just know the sound of the heater and the wind or the warm air that came out of it and broke my skin. So now I'm panicking. I tried to pull up my legs to kick him. Even wouldn't have done anything. And I know. I noticed that my feet were tied together. So I didn't make it very far. And then I wanted to say something and I couldn't speak because now I also had a gag in my mouth. I, I was really tied up. Absolute tied up. And then I hear him saying, hey, hey, hey. And I wanted to respond. I obviously, he obviously said, hey, hey, hey. I sensed or knew that I wake up because I tried to kick him. And I don't know if I made any noises like, oh, oh, when I started to remember, like, I don't know. And then he, then I wanted to respond to him this, yeah, I am here. Kind of like when he said it, hey, hey. And that made him beating my head and face and whatever he said. He could reach with his fists. And I remember then I got more ether. So I, but I don't remember. Did he stop the car? Were we driving? Were we still there? Like, I just remember then him calling me and I tried to respond and get beaten up. And then I have again this cloth. With the ether on my nose and mouth. Yeah, so I wake up again. When I woke up, I was, there was no time in between where I had to puzzle things together. I was awake like that. Like, absolute aware. And I knew this is a moment I'm going to die. It was like a, like, I just knew. So I come up with my up. And I wanted to tell him, hey, you can stop. I'm leaving. And there was no fear. There was no anger. There was no sadness. It was just like, it's done. I'm leaving. I'm out. And I couldn't because I had the gag in my mouth. So I remember I sank back in the seat. And then myself. Like, I got very relaxed in my body. And now the entire awareness shifted inward. I heard a very loud noise. And this noise was like. Later in studies, I figured it's the blood. You hear your blood stream. I passed out. And then I paid attention to that noise. And it came, it became so intense that my eardrums, I could feel my eardrums vibrate. And it was so uncomfortable that I thought, if I don't center myself, my eardrums will explode. Because the pressure was built up so high. And the noise was like, really like drums. Like very loud. It was very loud, unbearable loud at some point. So I told myself center, center, center. And it's so fascinating because it's still physical awareness. It's just from inside. I don't know what he did. I didn't hear him breathing anymore. There was nothing that was, had any thing to do with the exterior. Of the physical world. It was all inside my body, very inside. He could have broken my hands or fingers. And I wouldn't have awareness about it because everything was focused on inside. So I withdraw and the noise fades away. And I enter this really fast speedy spiral. And when I say that, so many who had a near death experience, they describe the tunnel and it is like a tunnel, but it has, for me, it has a spiral motion from the bottom to the top. And it's almost all. So when we talk about tunnel, so it's wider and then it gets narrow and narrow. And I was just spinning in it like crazy. Like if you would take a ride, it's a roller coaster and you know, one more spin and you vomit. And as I became aware of that, I commanded myself again. To center and the spinning didn't stop, but I became centered. so I could observe the spins without being part of the spin. So now I'm in that spiral, but I am not part of it. I am the observer, and it spins, and it's just amazing, nothing threatening. And the tunnel becomes more narrow, and all of a sudden it makes a loud boom, and I feel it in my head like an explosion, and out I am. So I know I'm dying. I have this experience. I finally press through what I call a membrane, and I know I'm out of my body. I'm completely gone. There's no memory. There's no connection to the body whatsoever, and everything is black. The ocean of stars. Stillness. Nothing. Zero. There's nothing. But it's not lifeless. Nothing. And while I become aware of that, light sparkles, let's say. Sparkles of a beautiful light appear, golden white. And yet when I say golden light, it's not golden light. It is one of those. It is one of those colors that you barely can describe, and poets and artists try to find beautiful words for one of those sunrises. And this light, at a certain second, is just so enchanting. And you know it's not gold, and you know it's not white, and you know it is kind of white, and it is kind of gold. It's not gold. Like the sun. The sunrises is the closest to that light that appears when we're going to die. And here it is, and it starts to fill the void. And there's a motion, and this motion I describe as an infinite exhale, and simultaneously an infinite inhale. And it's neither of it. It's not an inhale. It's not an exhale. But it is at the same time. And it's just peaceful, and all I felt was love, such a tremendous love, really beautiful love, unconditional, endless, infinite. And you are it, or I am it. I'm not separated. I am that love. I am that love. And in that moment, it started to, I say it, and I would prefer to stay with that. It started to talk, but not in words, and yet it was words, because I interpreted it as words that I knew when I came back. And it would ask, are you ready to leave? Now, even when there's no conscious awareness of the physical body, and you have not this ego identity, because I really was separated from the body, there seems to be an individual part of every being. There seems to be an individual part of every being on Earth, and in a body, and without a body, that still has our imprint of who we are. It just is not as a personality that separates things. It's like, or it doesn't compete. It doesn't, you know, but it's an imprint. So you have a completely different personality as an energetically imprint. And I do, and this is what we take with us, and some call this is a soul that always remembers past lives, future lives, and the current now. And I would confirm that through the experience I had that night and everything after that followed. And so now it asks me, so my personality is very curious. I always have been. I need stimulation all the time. I need to know new things, because there are so beautiful things to know about. Things that I don't know I want to know. If things are possible, I want to experience them. And it takes a while to overcome human fears and limitations. But if things are possible as a human, I want to know them. So it asks me. And that was for me not a yes or no question. It was rather me asking a question back. And I have asked, who are you? Because I was so enchanted, so mesmerized, so in awe that I needed to know what that thesaurus is. Because this is what everybody feels. This is what everybody desires. As a human, this is how much you love your mom when you are a child. And when your parents get upset with you, you just wish they could feel how much you love them. And it's not necessary to punish you or yell at you, because this love is so bombastic. Like everything that you. So I ask, who are you? And it said, I am your Holy Spirit. And there, it was no doubt. It didn't say, I am God, I am Buddha's best friend, and I am here to pick you up. No, so many who had a near-death experience get picked up. I didn't get picked up. Nobody comes close up for me. So, there it is, saying, I am your Holy Spirit. And I just feel this relief and this, yeah. This is me. This is me. And this is everybody. Everybody. And I got asked again, are you ready to leave? And I said, no, no. I mean, humans need to know. And boom. Dang, it was so fast. It went down. And I say down, and I mean it in the meaning of gravity. This is exactly how it felt, downwards. Like, when you have children or toddlers, they start, and don't ever get upset with them. They always throw stuff down because they discover gravity. It's so beautiful to see how beautiful a human being starts to learn and how fascinating, because where we are all from, there is no gravity. It's amazing. Everything that you take in your hand and you let it, you open your hand and it falls down, and so does the soul. When the soul incarnates in the body, it drops down. And it's dark, it's cold, it's fast. And there I was. That brings us to the end of part one. But luckily, you can listen to the rest of Nina's story right now in part two. I want to thank Nina once again for sharing this difficult story with us. This has been Beyond the Wall part one, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced. And hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaefer, Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson, and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Wicca Faze, Springs Eternal, Juice Jackal, and North Americans. Our artwork is by Cul-De-Sac Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron at patreon.com. Otherworld. Our social media is @otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, Leah Reese Dennis, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you can send us your stories at stories at otherworldpod.com. you