Episode 171: The Widower

Hey everybody, before we start this episode, I want to say that we are currently on the hunt for news stories. Technically, we are always on the hunt for news stories, but especially right now because we're already getting a head start on our Halloween episodes for this year. So if you have experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, email a summary of what happened to [email protected]. If you have a friend or family member that has a great story, now is an excellent time to talk them into finally emailing the show. Once again, the email is [email protected], thank you, and I'm looking forward to reading all these. Welcome to the world. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. The story about to hear covers a long period of time, multiple generations, and honestly, so many different things that I'm surprised it ended up being just one episode. It comes from a woman named Ashley, who grew up in the United States, but then had to move to Mexico when she was just 11 years old. This was a huge culture shock for her, and also a big change of pace going from a relatively large city to a small rural town in a totally different country. Luckily, Ashley ended up settling in and really enjoying life in Mexico, and something that really helped her with that was getting to know her grandfather, who lived a really interesting life and had many stories to share with Ashley. But there was one topic that he did not enjoy talking about, something that took a while to get the full version of, and that is what this episode is about. Just a heads up, this one contains some descriptions of violence that may be difficult for some listeners. This episode is called "The Widower" and you're listening to "The Other World". "My name is Ashley Villarreal, and I was born in Los Angeles, California. In 1989, I lived there until I was about 11 years old. When I was 11, my grandfather had a heart problem, and so he had to go into surgery and we went to his hometown, which is this tiny town in Mexico, to visit him and to take care of him, you know, after the surgery. But my parents did this crazy thing where they left me and my 12-year-old sister taking care of my grandpa for two weeks. And when they came back two weeks later, they came back with all their stuff. It wasn't a, you know, smooth move. It was a very, all of a sudden, you live in Mexico now. And so that was pretty shocking because we, you know, I had never moved from California. We had always lived in the same spot. And when we moved to Mexico, it was basically from overnight, and the cultural shock was interesting. You know, from living in California, we used to live near Anaheim. And then we moved to certain parts, like Fuller 10 and things like that. So that was like the biggest moves I had ever done, which was inside of LA. And so when we moved to Mexico and I go to this town where, you know, my school didn't have a desk for me, there was no, like, cement on the streets. There was no supermarkets. Everything you bought, like the fruits and the food. You bought it from, like, particular people. The news was given out in, like, this little car that passed with a huge sound system. So it was very shocking. It was, like, traveling back in time. It was, it was hard when we made the move like that. You know, there wasn't a chance to say goodbye. And I was 11 and also phones, like, cell phones didn't exist. So the only way I had to communicate with people was through email and barely, you know, I was, I was a kid. So it was more of letting go, you know. My parents were very, I would call it unsabeled for a bit. Like, they liked to move around even if we were inside the same area. So I was very used to leaving schools, you know, moving from school to school and losing friends. So when it comes to that, it was kind of not that hard, but what was very hard for me was, you know, my family, we had my cousins in California and I grew up with them. So it was very hard from one day to another to basically have brothers and then, no, then it's just you and also I knew Spanish. You know, my mom had taught us Spanish as a first language and English basically a second. We learned it in school, but I didn't exactly know how to write well in Spanish. I knew how to speak it, but it was a very tricky transition because I was already in fifth grade. So when, you know, first day of class in Mexico, they start like telling me to write things down and I was in complete shock. So it was a pretty rough transition, like from one day to another, a life change. But at the moment, obviously I felt very attacked by the world and angry and sad, but it took me, I think if I had to calculate probably two weeks to be very happy, I fell in love with the town and I fell in love with the people and the friends that I made there are still my friends today. I think it was a great change. I just at the moment didn't see it that way. So when we moved there initially, you know, the move was rough for, you know, all the reasons that I already told you, but one of the things that started getting me comfortable and settled in Mexico was being able to be so close to my grandfather. We moved into his place, which is a big house, that we had been to maybe four, five times in my whole life. One of the interesting things was that, you know, when I was getting to know him, I was getting to know him on a personal level and I didn't really know, you know, about his life or his professional life. And when I would, you know, go out or go to school, you know, one of the first things that people would ask me and I'm going to change his name for privacy reasons, but I'm going to call him Carlos and they would ask me, you know, are you Carlos's granddaughter? And I mean, it would be like, if I was a celebrity's granddaughter and I, I was always very shocked about that. I wasn't used to that because in California, nobody knows you, you know, and I was nothing compared to like what I became when I moved to this little town. All of a sudden, I was, if I was walking down the street, people would wave at me and you know, say like, say hello to Carlos for me. And I had no idea who these people were, but everybody knew me. And so it was a very beautiful way to start to understand, you know, the level of person, you know, that my grandfather was and how many people loved him. That to me made the move to that town smoother because I felt immediately taken care of, even by strangers and people that I didn't know. And it was this feeling that I had never experienced in the United States, you know, and in Mexico, it's this very welcoming environment. You know, people knew, for example, that I couldn't write perfect Spanish. So they would my teacher at the time and the other teachers from this elementary school, which by the way was public and, you know, they did not get paid extra for this, but they would take turns after class to teach me, to stay with me and make sure that I was learning and that I was making it easier for me. And I feel like those are things that made me immediately feel attached and loved, you know, in that little town. And then in terms of friendship and fun. I learned how to have fun in a very different way. I feel like in California fun usually meant going out somewhere or doing something really cool, you know, going to a museum or going to Disneyland or going to a park and here in this little town, all of that was out of the picture. So the fun was going to the downtown and getting what we call respaldos, which is like ice with flavoring. And then people would, the activity was to walk around that little block and say hello to everyone. So everybody just said hello to everyone like over and over. And that was fun, you know, that became fun to me to be able to know everybody in the town and to be able to have friends and know their mothers and know their cousins. So it was a very welcoming environment. My grandfather is a very interesting person. I knew that from, you know, the Gaco 'cause he's just a wonderful person. But I didn't know, you know, his history or his life either politically or professionally speaking until we moved to that little town in Mexico. And that's where I started learning about his childhood amongst many things, right? But so he started telling me the story of his life and it, you know, it begins with him being a very young boy. He is one of 11 brothers and sisters so he comes from a very big family. And they are, you know, his father and mother were from this little town in Mexico which will remain nameless. But they grew up in a very poor environment in terms of money. He, his father passed away when he was around 14 years old. So his mother was left to take care of, you know, 12 children. And the only thing she knew how to do was make bread. So, you know, he always tells me that the story that she would make bread like at 4 a.m., you know, she had the bread ready in. She would put baskets in all of their heads and then like fill the baskets with bread and then send them out to the town to like different parts of town to sell the bread as much as they could. And that's how they survived for many, many years until my grandfather was a little older, old enough to get into middle school which, you know, he describes to me was not normal at that time. You know, studying wasn't part of the equation. And we're talking, you know, this is Mexico. If I had to put a year to it, it would probably be like the 40s. So a very long time ago. He says that he wanted to enroll into school because he would, you know, see all these kids coming in and out and he wanted to live a normal life as much as he could. And he enrolled himself. He didn't even know like what grade he was going to get into or what he was getting himself into. But he said he just like walked up in there and said, "I want to study." And so according to the age they put him in a group and it was pretty quick that they realized that he was very talented. He was great, his favorite subject was math, but he was great at poetry too. So he did a lot of poetry contests and a lot of writing. He was just very into learning. He was a big, big nerd. As he always says, he was a very cool nerd. He had a lot of friends and he also did a lot of, you know, I don't know how you would say this in English, but like that I was sort of like. He did a lot of mischievous, I guess, things. So he always, you know, laughs about his past and how he, you know, growing up had, you know, these two types of sides to himself where he was super strict and smart and committed. And then on the other hand, he loved having fun and going out on the town and things like that. But during middle school, he learned that about himself that he really loved to study and that he was good at it. So when it was time to pass to high school, he did and he also went to the only high school that was in that town. And that, at that time, he met a professor which would change his life. And that professor changed his life by noticing him and applying in his name for a scholarship. My grandfather didn't even know that this could be done. So this professor is the one who did all of that for him. And he got him this major scholarship to be able to study, you know, professional career at a university in Mexico City, which for my grandfather was impossible to even dream of. But this professor didn't take no for an answer. He told him, "Hey, you have this scholarship and you're leaving." So he even, you know, lent him money for the move and everything. And my grandfather, from there forward, you know, says his life changed completely. After he accepted the scholarship, he moved to Mexico City. And he started studying at a university called El Instituto Politecnico Nacional de México, which is the most important school for engineers. And he describes it as a very eye-opening experience for him to live in the city. He comes from this tiny Mexican town where you know, the coolest thing you could do is like have a ranch and have a cow. And all of a sudden, he's in the city that is compared to like New York, you know. He is living a life that he couldn't imagine he could live. But he's also living it being very careful, you know, with his studies and with his money. He's sending half of it to his mother. He's still taking care of his brother's ancestors from far away. So he describes that time as a lot of like growth and fun, but also very, very serious time in his life, where he also liked what he was studying, you know, and he figured out that he was very good at it. And he wanted to become like the best civil engineer in the world. So he took out the nerdiest parts of him and it paid off. He got into a lot of competitions and a lot of teachers wanted him to get involved in like other things out of school. And that's how he started to like get his professional career going even before he had graduated. And it was also during this crazy time that he met my grandmother. This is a funny story because he always says that he wasn't supposed to end up with her. He had asked one of his classmates to go on a date with him. And they did. They went on a date. But he says that when he went to go pick her up at her apartment and the door opens and it's his date's sister. And he says that in that moment he fell in love. It was like love at first sight and he was so worried because he thought I'm going on a date with the wrong sister. Like I should not continue this date if I ever want to chance with this girl who just opened the door. His date comes out. He of course isn't going to be rude so he takes her on a date. You know, at the end of the date he told his current date that he had really liked his sister, like her sister, and that he would like to approach her if that was okay. And thankfully his date wasn't bothered by it. And you know, laughed it out and just said sure. Just give it some time because we just went out on a date. So my grandfather did. He waited a couple of months until he approached them again. He says he went back to the apartment, asked for a date and he got it. And you know, he explains that first date as the best night of his life. They went to a movie and that was it. And he just says like it was the best date because we didn't have to talk. But he just he just wanted to be with her. You know, he just wanted to sit with her. So you know, whenever he talks about my grandmother, it's like his whole face lights up. And he just starts talking about how funny it was and how he used to joke with her a lot about, you know, if you misbehave or if you do something, I'm going to go back to your sister and like they had that running joke forever. During this time when he starts to date my grandmother, he is also about to graduate. So it's a very defining time in his life. And he figures out pretty quickly. Once he starts dating my grandmother that she is the woman he wants to marry. But he is also very young. And he has in his. his own words nothing to give her. He didn't have anything to offer her. So he starts working really hard. He starts in a company where he starts as a civil engineer in a low position and slowly starts going up and up and up inside of the company. And he describes this time as his dating time with my grandmother, but that he kept promising that, you know, they're going to get married and they're going to get married. And my grandmother would just, you know, say, don't, don't even mention it until you have a ring. And, you know, there were different times, but they were both very into each other. And he knew from, in his own words, from the first date that she would be his wife. So he describes it as he had an objective now, you know, he wanted to have this professional life, not only to help his family now, but to build his own, you know, to have a wife. So at this company that he started working in, he started working as a civil engineer and he worked in projects, mostly building bridges for the roads in central Mexico. But he started basically as an assistant position and overseeing these big sites and projects. And then slowly started, you know, becoming more and more important within these projects. And as that happened in his personal life, he decided it was time. So he asked my grandmother to marry him, even though in his own words again, he didn't have anything yet, but he knew he would. So they got married very quickly. I believe they had been dating for about only a year and a half, you know, like it was pretty quick for for that time. And they get married. They move in to this part of Mexico city that is very famous for being a terrible part of the city. There's a lot of poverty and there's a lot of crime. And you know, my grandfather says that this is where they had their first apartment. And he would come home from work every night, you know, exhausted. And he would apologize to her. He would tell her, I'm sorry, we're going to move out soon. Like I promised where I'm working. And she would just say, you know, in that time that she was the happiest woman in the world. She didn't need anything. But she also knew, you know, she would always tell him, I know, like I know we're going to, this is going to change. I know I married a very talented man. So whenever, you know, he tells this part of the story, it's very heartwarming. You know, they both had so much love and like faith for one another that things were going to work out. So even though he always laughs at this part as like a defense mechanism, I think, to think that it was such a horrible part of town and like such a horrible experience, he also says it was what made him feel like, you know, this was the love of his life that she could live anywhere with him. And he would feel like, you know, the king of the world. So that was like a time in their life where as a couple, they grew very close. And also it is where my grandfather, you know, my grandmother and grandfather got pregnant for the first time. She got pregnant of their first child. He started doing a lot better at work. And he started getting ascended. So he moved out of that apartment into another area of Mexico. And you know, he always describes that as, you know, the beginning of his very, very successful career. So after they move out of this bad side of town, my grandfather's life starts to change professionally. He not only leads like these small projects, but he becomes a very important part of the company. When my grandfather became a very important person for the company he was working in, he also opened his own company. And in this company, he had a lot of, you know, big group of civil engineers working, building huge projects for the government, building bridges and building roads for the central part of Mexico. So he was very busy. And he had to deal a lot with politicians because of it. And my grandfather's life changed from completely, you know, black to white basically. He went from being this very poor man to having anything you can think of. You know, he bought a huge house in the best part of the city. They had chauffeurs. They had more than one maid. And my grandmother was just busy having babies. You know, she ended up having four. And at this point in time, they're doing really well. You know, he, he's a very important businessman. She is a very beautiful young mother. She even modeled for some time. She, she was a model. And she was like in covers of magazines for Mexico. And she was very beautiful. So she, she knew how to, how to exploit that part of herself. And, you know, my mom always says that it was, it was that the common thing for them was to wake up. And she was already in the hair salon. Like she would have her hair done every morning. Like this life that was just completely, you know, my grandfather's dream. He wanted to give her everything he could. And he managed to do that. You know, he managed to give her the best type of life. You could give someone, I think. All right. We'll be right back after this quick break. The Unsolved Mysteries podcast is back. I'm Jordan Murphy. And each week, I'll take you inside a new investigation. It could be an unsolved murder and unexplained disappearance. The search for a wanted fugitive. Any mystery that still needs answers. We'll follow every new lead, every break in the case. And the moments when a mystery is finally solved. Because after all these years, one thing hasn't changed. Someone somewhere knows the truth. Listen to and follow unsolved mysteries. Available now wherever you get your podcasts. So at this point in time, they have had four kids. One of them is my mother. My mother was kind of like in the middle. She was the third child out of four. And at that time, she was 14 years old. And she describes that time as, you know, being wonderful and beautiful. And her life, her upbringing was just full of privilege and a lot of happiness and love. And she always describes my grandparents as being extremely in love with one and other annoyingly, so according to her. And so at the same time that, you know, they're having such a beautiful life. My grandfather's job is getting a little more stressful. He's dealing with projects that get a little more complicated just because of the size of them. You know, they are huge projects. And he has to do huge budgets for the government. And at this time, my mother is 14 years old. It was during August of 1979. So it's a very beautiful time for my mother and her family. And she describes this evening as a completely normal Sunday night. Her mom had made them hot dogs for dinner. And they had had it in the dining table together. And after they finished, everybody went up to their own bedrooms to, you know, settle for the night. So my mom says that they each had their own bedroom. So my mom had her bedroom and her, she had two brothers and one sister and they each went into their individual bedrooms to call it a night. But, you know, they were still awake. They were just kind of hanging out like you do on a Sunday evening. And my mom says that all of a sudden they just heard the door, their front door in their house was made out of glass. So she said they heard the glass breaking. And by the time they had gotten up to their doorway, like in their bedroom, the men were already in the house. They were carrying two guns. And they were walking down the hallway that led to my grandparents bedroom. And so my mom says that the only thing she managed to grab was a pair of shoes that she was wearing and she took them off her feet and she started throwing them towards the men but she says that they were coming in so fast she's not even sure that the shoes hit them and then they proceeded to go into my grandparents bedroom and they shot my grandfather and they shot my grandmother multiple times and you know my mom just describes that as the most terrifying moments of her life because she wasn't sure what had just happened and she says they took the shots and then as quickly as they took the shots they left the house they didn't bother to you know either shoot the kids or anything they just walked right out of the house right where they came in from but my mom says that they ran towards her parents bedroom and my grandmother was on the floor she had been shot and my grandfather was not he had managed to grab this huge television set that they had in front of their bed to throw it at the men and when he did that the men shot him and the bullets got stuck in the television so he survived but the men they did it so quickly I think they didn't even notice and so when my grandfather is you know laying on the floor with my grandmother and my mother describes this as you know the most traumatic experience of her life she's seeing her mother pass away and you know my my grandfather is in a state of shock holding my grandmother and my mom says it took a couple of minutes that she was alive for a little bit managed to say a couple of things but you know the things she managed to say were like if she was going to survive you know like the ambulance will be here soon and everything will be okay but she passed away and when the ambulance arrived it was too late my grandfather the only times that he has like talked about the event itself he always says that he feels like it was very unfair he's he's very upset at what we would call God because he feels like he should have died you know whenever he thinks about that moment that's all he ever says that he tries to forget about that moment because he he should have died you know he always says that that he that was wrong and that he sure that like destiny something got twisted because it shouldn't have been her but he in terms of detail doesn't give much he just describes it as the worst day of his life and you know he says that after she passed away he like kind of came back to himself for a second and you know told the kids to get out of the room so he that's the only thing he's told me that he got up and told them to go to their rooms and he regrets that too you know he says like I should have stayed with them I should have hug them I should have you know we just lived something severely traumatic but he told them to go to their rooms and wait until police and ambulance came and part of me wanting to tell this story now is because he doesn't speak English and also he doesn't speak about it at all even if it's in Spanish he considers that the most important event in his life but also obviously the most tragic but I feel like it's important to talk about it in a way to like remember my grandmother and the way she died so unfairly once my grandmother passed away my grandfather called the police the police came to the house and took my grandmother but they also took him to the police station because he had become immediately suspect number one and you know they took him in to interrogate him and then in the morning they brought in my mother and her brothers to also give their interrogation but the way that my mother describes it is that they separated the children into different rooms and told them that their father had confessed and that he had been the one who shot their mother and my mom says that she was very scared and she was very angry because she of course knew that this wasn't true she had been in the house she knew the two men had come in and she said that they were there for days interrogating them and telling them he already confessed and they wouldn't let them see each other so this went on for about two weeks and they were trying really hard to to keep them in jail but they couldn't because you know the kids they were not breaking and nobody you know they refused to lie that way so they had to let him out after he is released from jail he realizes that this has to do directly with a specific politician who he did not want to make deals with because these projects and deals had to do with huge projects that would require him to inflate numbers and therefore participate in like massive amounts of corruption in the government and my grandfather did not want to get involved and so he declined and right after he did that this happened you know and so my grandfather knew at that moment that my grandmother wasn't supposed to be the one who died it was supposed to be him I'm being intentionally vague here with the details of you know people because it's still a subject that scares me a little bit it probably shouldn't because it's so far in the past but we are talking about very powerful people who you know do very horrible corrupt things in Mexico after he comes to this realization he decides to leave Mexico City as well as you know his former colleagues due to he meets up with them one last time they basically shut down the company legally and my grandfather decides to leave to sell the house and to go back to his hometown where you know he's from and to bring his children with him which that part eventually his children go back to Mexico but for the moment being they all move back to the city of to this unmentionable small town and he goes back with the sense of wanting to like fix things so he becomes a politician himself so this is eventually the town that he moves back to which is his hometown is the town that I end up moving two years later and this is the town where he has this change and he becomes a politician he decides that he wants to fight corruption for himself you know he wants to make sure that in his town where he's brought up these type of events don't happen he starts to bring a lot of projects for growth for his town he you know becomes a politician he starts canvassing basically in the streets and he eventually becomes mayor of the town and you know the way he describes it to me is he give he would give money from his pocket to the town like the town was so poor it was so little and he wanted to see it grow and he wanted to see it prosper he made it like his life objective to basically bring this town up I think he wanted to erase so hard like what had happened in Mexico and his previous life that he completely focused into work he became a very strong politician for this for this small town which eventually you know would be the town that I moved into and that's why people would recognize me all the time because of his history with the town he did a lot of amazing projects he built a lot of bridges around the town to connect to bigger cities he put cement in the streets which you know doesn't sound like a big deal but at the time it was a huge huge deal you know from having a dirt road to having an actual road you he did a lot of projects like that he built more schools because he wanted there to be more than one option for each level of education. I could honestly continue like listing the things that he has done for this town to date, you know, even though he's not an active politician, he's still in a lot of groups and he's an advisor to many politicians at the moment, you know, to keep he he's obsessed with this town. He loves it. I think he transformed his heart kind of and he poured it into this town. After, you know, years later, I move to this town of his and we move in with him to his house. I was very curious at the time, you know, I was 11 years old. I was so curious to figure out who he was. So I would every day, like during dinner time, just ask him so many questions. I would ask him about his past. I would ask him about his friends. I would ask him about my grandmother, but in terms of details, like I wanted to know if she was funny or you know, I wanted the positive stuff. And so I think it took him a while, you know, at the beginning, he wouldn't really tell me a lot of details or a lot of stories and he slowly started opening up and telling me a little more about his past. I would always joke with him and tell him that I was going to write a book about his life because he has a very interesting life. And honestly, I think I would, you know, he he does have such an interesting story. And through this connection that we develop, he begins to tell me more details, but it takes a couple of years. So I start getting closer and closer to him. I'm always very curious about his life, you know, his room to date is still full from like ceiling to ground with photos of my grandmother. So my curiosity keeps growing and it isn't until years later, I'm 17 years old that one night he decides to tell me the full story. That's where, you know, he begins to tell me the story. And at this point, I'm trying really hard to not interrupt him because he does not speak about this. And the story he tells me honestly blows my mind on one hand. I fully believe him and the other. I'm obviously kind of like confused. The way my grandfather told me that this happened is that after he had been detained and the investigation for the murder had begun, but not really begun like nothing much was being done. He was starting to feel very frustrated. And so he started looking for other ways to find information. And when that was happening, he had a cousin of his reach out to him and say that if he was interested, he knew somebody who could talk to the Ouija board or communicate through the Ouija board. And my grandfather, even though I don't think he was a believer, I feel like he had no other option at the time. He felt very desperate. So he agreed to contact this person through his cousin. And what he told my mother is that after that happened, they made an appointment. And that the appointment was at a very late or early time, you could say, at around 2 a.m. to meet in the outside of the city, outside of Mexico City in a ranch, where they would meet this person and this person would bring out the Ouija board. And my grandfather was able to go there and ask the main questions that he wanted to ask the Ouija board, which was all concerning my grandmother's murder. He wanted to know who committed the murder and where this person lived because my grandfather wanted to basically take the matters into his own hands. He was obviously very upset at the time. So what he recalls is going and the Ouija board being very rude, he always said that to me that the Ouija board was very rude and said a couple of bad words to him. And that when he was able to ask the questions, the Ouija board just gave him a name and an address, spelled it out. And so my grandfather after that went back to the city and he found the house. And when he went to the house, he told me that he had gotten his gun because he was basically ready, you know, to avenge his wife's death. The way he describes this to me is that he's not thinking. Like he says, I just like, it was like just immediate. I got the address, got up, and then just started doing everything. Went got the gun, got into the car, and then started driving. When he gets to the address, he finds out that it's like in the same area where he used to live with my grandmother at the beginning, like when they had just gotten married and moved in. So it was, you know, the poor side of town. And exactly where that address was, was a small house that was made out of like laminate, like a very poor house. So he could see through it. There wasn't really windows. The windows were made out of like curtains. And he says that he sees through the curtain, the shooter. He recognizes the shooter from outside his house. So he's, you know, ready basically to take a shot. But during this moment, he says that there's a lot of things going through his head. He says that he got very scared for the first time because he heard a voice that was clearly not his internal voice. My grandfather says that it started telling him like, "No sé es un pendejo, no sé es coerde, as lo idiota pendejo." Like that, he kept repeating pendejo, pendejo, no sé es pendejo. And my grandfather, you know, what he told me is like, I don't speak to myself like that. Like I don't tell myself that there were more words like homophobic words involved. The voice was telling him que no sé a coerde, que no sé a joto, or which means, you know, gay in a very demeaning way. To not be a pussy basically, you know, no sé es joto. Which to my grandfather was a huge insult, you know. He's brought up in a very machista kind of Mexico. So he says that he got really freaked out by this voice. And it got so loud in his head that he couldn't do it. You know, he tells me I wanted to. Like I felt like I wanted to. But I see this man, I recognize him. And he's about to like sit down in his whatever dining table is. And he's got kids, you know, he's got little kids. He's got little kids. He's got a wife. They're about to have dinner. And he says that, you know, he still to date doesn't understand like how he got the strength to not do it. You know, he, he says that they are nights where he like still dreams about it. And he he thinks about doing it. You know, he dreams that he does it. But that at the moment, he he was very scared. And the voice in his head was getting louder. And he didn't like it. So he decided to jump back into his car. And, you know, throw the address away. And that's the night that he decided that they had to leave. In the family, we did know that this cousin of his ended up in time committing suicide. And they believed that he was very into like, you know, dark magic and things of that sort. So he was controversial in the family. You know, he he explains it as the way he presented that to me was for me to understand that there are things that hold the power that we probably don't understand. And he wanted me to stay as far away as a witty from a witty board that I could. You know, he didn't want me to ever play it or approach it or take it as a funny game. You know, he that night just told me, I believe, you know, he's never said this again though that this was the only time he told me that he believes that the devil is in that game. And he just says, like, and the devil, you know, it's not, you don't mess with the devil and not get hurt. And I honestly think that the only reason he told me the story was because he felt like I was a very curious young girl. You know, I was always asking questions. I always wanted to learn and to experience and I think he didn't want that to happen to me. So I was, you know, when he ended the story, I was honestly presented like with a lot of confusion. I thought, wow, I can't believe my grandfather is opening up to me and telling me this part of the story that I had never heard of. But then also he's so serious. You know, he's not kidding. Like this really happened. And the fact that, you know, this board that he didn't believe in, out of the blue and quickly gives him the address of the person that he recognizes as the killer, to me was like a movie, like it was bizarre. I was like, this can't be true. But my grandfather would have no reason, you know, to make this story up and to lie to me. So after this happens, I talked to my mom and, you know, it's also a subject that I don't really approach with her. But I told her mom, I, you know, my grandfather just told me this story and I'm a little freaked out. And my mom was like supernatural about it. She said, yeah, that happened. And that's all she told me that night. She was like, yep, no more detail. Just that's true. Yeah, that happened to your grandfather. Don't ever play that game. And that's it. Later on, you know, we, we've had different conversations about it. But the day of I was just shocked to one, receive the story from my grandfather and then receive a confirmation, you know, from my mother. Hey, I am Claudia. I am from Mexico. My daughter is Ashley. Well, I'm here to tell you some, a little bit of my story of, of something that happened in our family. My dad told us that he once had contact with this board. He played with that board and asked a lot of questions and the board answered. And he had answers. He does the only thing that he told us that he had answers for that. My dad is a bear. It's, it's, he always, I remember him like a very happy person. But when this situation goes in our family, well, my father just changed. It's not, it's not like he is a serious person now, but this is says make a change in, in his life. So at that time, when he told us about this, he was very concerned, I think, and very worried. And to tell us that thing that he did at that time, that he knows that it was wrong. You know, my dad and I, we have a very, we are very close since I was a little girl. So I said, okay, okay, dad, don't worry. It's okay. Because he, at that time, he once like, you know, there has a wet eyes. And I said, don't worry about that. He, you don't want to say more, don't say more. That said, it's okay. And never, ever we're going to talk about that. Again. Is that the last you heard about this? Yeah. Or did you ever find out more about what happened? Because actually, you told me a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think what happens is that my, my grandfather, as the years go by, he opens up a little bit more. He talks more about what happened at the older he gets. I, you know, I feel like he, he saw an opportunity to, when I was living with him in his house, we had never lived together. And we started getting really close. The three of us, my sisters, and him, we used to go to the ranch with him in the mornings and things like that. And so we had a lot of time to talk. And I also think that since I'm not my mom, you know, it was like a different type of relationship where he could tell a little more. You know, I feel like the subject of my grandmother's passing is something that we all acknowledge, but don't really talk about in the family. So when he decides to tell me this story, I was also a teenager. But, you know, I, I think the difference was that I wasn't his daughter. And he was just telling it to somebody else. So he gave me a lot of more detail that at the time I didn't, I thought my mom knew, you know, I thought, you know, and my mom and I spoke about it afterwards. And we're like, yeah, yeah, that happened. But like, we never went into detail of like all the things he told us, mm-hmm. Did Claudia, did you ever find out about what he did with the information, or did you find that out from Ashley? Well, first for Ashley and then for my dad. Some, some, I don't know, maybe that's why Ashley and I were, we were talking. Maybe, well, my dad with my daughters has a special like feeling. And my dad told us, lastly, at that time, a lot of things that I didn't know that. I think because at that time, when we were young, my dad doesn't want to tell the complete story because I don't know, maybe he thought we, our hearts, we're going to be sad or I don't know. But time passed. And my dad right now has 89 years old. And now he can talk about that now, but in another years now because this, this story of his life and if our life like a family, it's terrible. So we don't talk about, we don't like to talk about too much about this, especially my dad. Unrelated to all of this, I heard that some strange things happened later on. I don't know mom, if you remember better than I do, I don't remember if it was my grandpa who told us that they had gone to the house like years later and that they were, whoever lived there had to leave because they would hear like a woman cry and kids on the screen. We had a big pool in the house and the person who lives, who bought the house, they just keep calling my dad and said, "Something is wearing your hat in this house because sometimes during the nighttime or daytime, we hear people in the pool." And you know what? We love to swimming in that pool. My sister, my brothers, my mother loves to swim in that pool. So then they decided to close the pool and they closed that pool. And they, and then start to hearing like crying, somebody's crying like a woman's crying and I think it was my mom. So they decided and then to sell the house for that and they sold the house. Did any other strange things happen to you guys? No. No. I mean, there's a couple, you know, you know, the story mom of, you know, that everybody believes that my grandmother wouldn't have liked my aunt's ex-husband because every time they put the day of the dead altar and you know, her photo is the main photo in the altar every year and every time he would pass by the altar, something would fall or the candles would like shut off. So everybody believed that she didn't like him and they ended up divorcing so it It makes sense, but there's story. It's not particularly spooky, she's like a presence in the family, but you know, we just didn't get to meet her. Okay, thank you so much Ashley and Claudia for speaking to me and sharing this story. You know, typically in another world, I only feature first-person accounts, but when I read this submission, it was pretty obvious that it was worth making an exception on this one. Thank you once again to Ashley and Claudia. I'm so glad we got to help preserve this incredible and very surreal piece of family history. This episode was called "The Widower" and you've been listening to other world. Other world is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Shaffer, Theo Krants, Haley Persson, and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans and Juice Jackal. Our artwork is by Koldisak Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of other world, you can become a patron at patreon.com/otherworld. Our social media is @otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, Leah Restennis, Laura Curran, Josephina Frances, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gainer, and Hillary Shuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you can send us your stories at [email protected].