Episode 152: The Conjuring House

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Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at Geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico. Hey, I'm Steph. I'm Alex. And this is not today. Oh my gosh. Dracula. I'm trying something new. How fun. It's Halloween. Yeah. It's spooky. I got a laugh like Dracula on Halloween. Do you? Well, last few times I keep going, "Woo." What would you rather? I don't know. That one's tired. That was fun. Thank you. Give me a good Dracula laugh. Me? I just did. No, do it again. I can't think of Dracula and not think of the count from Sesame Street. Yeah. Like that's what I would be going for. Yeah. Like one cupcake. It's not spooky too. Yeah. I was just trying to get us warmed up because it's spooky, baby. It's the day. I'm excited for this story. I have things have been happening recently for me on the believer front. Yeah, for ghosts and stuff. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I kind of always was like, it probably is real, but I'm just not going to think about it. Yeah. And then this like video we saw, I was like, well, it's kind of hard to not think about it now. True. Yeah. Well, I've been doing a lot of research on the Conjuring House. Obviously, this is what we're talking about today. But one of the videos that came out recently is two ghost hunters that I like watching. They're Sam and Colby. I'm sure people are familiar with them. But they recently released an episode where they're in the Conjuring House and they caught some really insane evidence that is just hard to deny. It's hard to explain away. And yeah. So that's what we were watching. If it's real and they're not like, I don't know, having somebody else tap off camera or something, this is nuts. Yeah. Basically, what he's explaining is there are these two people in the Conjuring House who are like caretakers. And when they hold each other's wrists, they somehow form some crazy connection. And then you immediately hear footsteps and like tapping and they can communicate with these spirits through taps. And they're like one for your yes, two for no. And they go through the alphabet and they spell things out. It's kind of like a living breathing Ouija board. And it's really interesting. Yeah. But yeah, it takes place in the Conjuring House, which is what we are talking about today. In other words, we're talking about the survival of the parent family because the Conjuring House is spooky. Yeah, definitely spooky and has been for a very long time. But yeah, the survival of the parent family in this crazy haunted house is what inspired the Conjuring movie. It's not like very accurate the movie, but arguably the book is scarier than the movie. Because so Andrea Paren, who is one of the daughters of the family, wrote a trilogy based on her family's experience. And those books are terrifying. Wait, it's like Star Wars. Yes, yeah. Yeah, no, I want to know. So we did watch the movie. We did. So I watched it for the first time. Oh, yeah, that was your first time. That was. Yeah, I hadn't seen it before. It was spooky. Then every time something happens, that's not accurate. Actually, this is scarier. And I'm like, oh shit, I don't know. It was fine for most of the movie, but towards the end, I was like, oh, I must have been really fun to watch that movie with. Yeah. I'm like, no, wrong. No, you weren't. You were bad. It was just like, every time you did say it, I was like, oh god, damn. You're really building up this episode. So let's jump in. Okay, let's do it. Let's do it. Roger and Carolyn Perrin purchased their house in the suburbs in 1964. It was a modest Cape Cod style house with a nice backyard in Cumberland, Rhode Island. They chose that house to raise their five daughters. And since the schools in that area were pretty good and the community was peaceful and quiet. However, in the summer of 1970, things changed drastically for the family. That summer, the children had been gifted a puppy. And was just as excited about the puppy as her children were. So she decided the dog needed a special name. She thought for a moment and then declared the dog would be named Bathsheba. No. Are you serious? I'm dead serious. Okay. Yeah. We'll learn the significance of that name later. Andrea, their oldest child, had fallen in love with the dog. But tragedy struck when Andrea had taken Bathsheba for a walk. And she got off her leash and ran after a car of cheerleaders who had been all shouting in unison and shaking their colorful pom-bombs. Bathsheba darted across the road and Andrea began screaming for Bathsheba to come back, which the obedient dog heard and turned around to run back to Andrea. However, on its way back, an elderly couple struck the dog with their car. And this was in front of all of the Perrin daughters. They were devastated at the loss of their beloved family pet. Andrea, especially, she felt responsible for Shiba's death and quickly fell into a depression over it. She stopped playing outside and barely interacted with her siblings. To cheer Andrea up, her parents decided they would take in four kittens and they would also take the girls on a vacation. That way the family could kind of get back to normal. It had been working. Andrea loved their kittens and formed a bond with one they called scrunch. Our girls had a fantastic time and everything was finally getting back to normal after this vacation. However, at home, things weren't good. Carolyn and Roger had asked Carolyn's mother to watch the kittens and their house while they were away. But on the day the parents got home from their trip, her mother had left the house for a while. When the family pulled up to their house, Roger immediately noticed that their door to the sun porch had been wide open. In the past few years, their community had become a lot more dangerous. There had been break-ins, deaths, and gang-related assaults happening in the area. When Andrea and the girls got out of their car to greet their kiddies, Andrea once again discovered that her pet had been killed. Two of the kittens had been stolen and sold and the other two had been beaten to death. Seriously? Somebody broke into their house? Yes, a couple. Beat the kittens to death. Yes, one of which was Andrea's kitten scrunch. She found scrunch like that. So it was really traumatizing. So they were at their grandma's this whole time, though? They were away on vacation. This vacation was like specifically to cheer Andrea up and they came home and they found scrunch and like the other kitten that had been beaten to death. A poor kid. I mean, two? Yes. Two is rough. And like, within a very short time of each other. When Andrea saw her kitten, something in her snapped. She ended up finding out who did it and it happened to be a few boys in her neighborhood, like they were her neighbors. So she tracked down the one that killed her kitten and beat him to a pulp, wanting to do to him what he did to scrunch. Oh. Yeah. And a neighbor did stop her before she killed him, but she said she had never felt so evil in her life. Whoa. Yeah. Carolyn desperately wanted to get her kids out of there. Kids had become far too dangerous and she wanted her kids to grow up in the country like she had. She begged her husband to consider relocating the family and she insisted that her children be surrounded by wild nature instead of wild criminals. Roger wanted that too, but they were in no financial spot to move. But after someone crashed their car into the parent's home, Carolyn had had enough. She ended up finding an absolutely incredible farmhouse for sale in the village of Harrisville. It was a nine room colonial farmhouse with a barn and 200 acres of land for $75,000. Okay. Can you repeat those stats for me because I heard nine bedroom farmhouse colonial. Yeah. Very nice touch. Yes. But with a barn and 200 acres of land for $75,000, 200 acres of land. You heard me. We don't have to make ourselves depressed. We can just say today that would be a lot of money. I mean, even in the six, so here's my follow up question. Okay. What's wrong with it? Well, it's incredibly haunted. There's a reason it's 75 G's. It was also in the middle of nowhere and it was like, bro, it's nine bedrooms, 200 acres. It was old, old. Carolyn knew they didn't have the money. They would need to get that house, but she figured it couldn't hurt to go and look at it. And once she did, right, James Lauswars? She fell in love with this farmhouse. It was the perfect place. to raise her family. That day she decided they would do whatever they had to do to get that house and she put down a $500 deposit to hold the property, which was everything they had to their names. Oh, seriously? Yeah. I actually enjoy the story. Like, are they gonna like pull out credit cards or what? No, just listen. So they had maybe a few extra dollars for bread and milk, but she spent all of their money on this farmhouse and Roger didn't know. This is going to be a tension in the marriage. Yeah. So Roger was a way on business and Carolyn was like, I'm going to go look at this farmhouse and see how it is. And then she saw it and she fell in love with it and she immediately put down $500 that day. And she wasn't even supposed to go and look at anything. So she felt guilty about touring the farmhouse on her own and putting basically all of their money down without her husband's approval. And when he got home, he was pissed. But she convinced him to just go and look at it with her and the girls and then he would change his mind. If you could put all the wonders of the world into one place, you'd end up with something very much like Key Largo. Key Largo is not only the gateway to the Keys. It's the launching point for the untamed Florida Everglades. In fact, from snorkeling our living coral reef to fly fishing the Everglades back country, Key Largo offers the best of both worlds. For more about Key Largo and the latest safety protocols, visit flak.com/keylargo. Hi, I'm Jake Gruzz, also known as Nurse Jake. As a travel nurse, I've worked in all kinds of places, different sightings, cities and climates. Every assignment brings on a new challenge, which is why I always bring my figs. These scrubs are built for whatever the job throws at you. They're breathable, flexible and comfortable in any environment. No matter where I land, I know they're going to keep me looking and feeling my best. And don't sleep on the details. The pockets, the features, the finishing touches, everything has a purpose and it makes a real difference when you're moving nonstop. The fit is clean, tailored and super polished and they come in a huge range of colors. In other words, they feel great throughout a 12 hour shift and they always look good. See every healthcare professional on Instagram. If you work in healthcare or know someone who does, check out figs and get 15% off your first order at wearfigs.com with code figsRx. That's wearfigs.com code figsRx. And she was right. That farmhouse was exactly where their family needed to be. They saw it on a magical summer day and at that point they decided they would do whatever they had to do to get it. The old man who had been selling the house, Mr. Kenyon, had lived their almost his entire life and he told the parents that he wanted his home to go to their family specifically. So they made it work. By January of 1971, Roger and Carolyn, along with their five daughters, moved into the house of their dreams, which would eventually become the house of their nightmares. Still technically a dream. Yeah, that's true. Their haunting began immediately. The day they moved in was a snowstorm. It was freezing. Sorry, I have to ask this. How did they manage the finances? How did they put a down payment? They spent like months saving and like Roger worked so many extra hours and they didn't eat out ever or and they like just saved every single penny and put it to the house. Word. I respect that. Yeah. It was freezing and everything was iced over. Mr. Kenyon was still there since he was still moving his things out of the house. And the family loved Mr. Kenyon. Although he did say some odd things to Roger that he didn't quite understand, he told Roger for the sake of your family, leave the lights on at night. That was like one of the first things he told Roger. Damn, okay. I'm anist but you could kind of write this office like this guy. A little off. Yeah. It's a big farmhouse. They're in the middle of nowhere. It's dark. Roger didn't think too hard about the statement because the farmhouse was really large and he figured that Mr. Kenyon was saying that so that the girls knew how to get around in the dark. But as we'll soon find out, that wasn't why he was saying that. On the first day they moved in Andrea and the kids saw their first full body apparition. Day one. Okay, I'm starting out strong. Andrea's father had given her a box from the moving van to take inside and as she walked through the farmhouse, she greeted Mr. Kenyon who was still gathering the last of his things in the dining room and she saw another man with him whom she had never seen before. The man was wearing strange clothes that looked homemade. Andrea's first thought was that this was a neighbor who had come over to say goodbye to Mr. Kenyon. So as she walked past the man, she said, "Good morning, sir." That man didn't acknowledge her, which again she didn't find weird since she was just a kid. She walked past him and went into the kitchen where her mother had been with her baby sister April. She asked her mother who the man was with Mr. Kenyon and her mother told her that there wasn't anyone with Mr. Kenyon. His son was on the way, but he hadn't arrived yet. After Andrea had talked to her mother about the man, her other sister, Christine, came into the kitchen with a box and said, "Did you see that man with Mr. Kenyon? He's dressed funny." And then Cindy walked in and said the same thing. Meanwhile, Andrea had walked back outside to get another box. When Nancy came into the kitchen, Cindy was still in there and she leaned over to her and said, "Did you see that man with Mr. Kenyon? I did, but he just disappeared." Uh-oh. Spooky. Yeah. That was their introduction to the home and to the supernatural. Wait, so all four of them had the same experience? Yeah. All except April, who was like a baby at that point. A few hours later, once the moving van had emptied, Andrea's father went into the dining room and found Mr. Kenyon who was still packing. He had been moving slowly and it was pretty apparent that this old man who had lived there his whole life didn't want to leave. Rodger said, "Earl, this house is plenty big enough. You can stay here with us because they really truly loved Mr. Kenyon. But he said no, he would leave and come back for visits." Four of the five girls who were in the room as well could all see the man still standing with Rodger and Mr. Kenyon. But for some reason, they knew their father and Mr. Kenyon couldn't see him and they also felt like they shouldn't say anything about him being there because they were having a conversation. So all four of them, separately were like, "Yep, there's that man, but we're just not going to say anything because clearly dad can't see him." Uh-huh. I don't know. They just had a silent understanding that they weren't going to say anything. Mrs. Perron believed it was a man named Johnny Arnold who died there in his 40s and the 1800s, but they later found out that it was actually a man named Joseph who had died there. And this is like kind of recent information. They found out that it was Joseph. Because Cindy, I believe, called him "manny" because he was a man. So she just named him "manny" and recently people who have been investigating the house have like made contact with a male spirit. And he was like, "Oh, Cindy used to call me manny." So he literally identified himself and was like my name's Joseph. Cool. So that's just recent news. But anyway, even though the kids had seen this full-body apparition and knew something odd had happened, they didn't talk about it. And at first everything seemed great. 13-year-old Andrea had her own room upstairs while her sisters, 11-year-old Nancy and 10-year-old Christine shared another. And then the youngest Cindy in April had another room to themselves. The house provided ample space for the girls to play. And April would regularly play with a spirit of a young boy named Henry. Just by herself, she was just playing with Henry. Although Carolyn hadn't seen the man standing with Mr. Kenyon on their first day in the house, she too also started experiencing odd things in the house right after they moved in. Carolyn spent a lot of time alone in that house, since Roger was typically away on work, and during the day the girls would go to school. All except April, who was too young. It started with Carolyn hearing footsteps upstairs. The first time she heard it, she thought it was April up there until April walked into the room only a second later, which meant she definitely couldn't have been upstairs. She also had many instances where she felt an extremely odd sensation that she wasn't alone. Like there was someone or something else in the room with her, she would feel sick and there would be an awful rotting smell and she would get a knot in her stomach that she couldn't ignore. The house was also always cold. Of course it was the winter in an old farmhouse so they chopped that one up to the season, but there would be times when Carolyn and the kids would feel a sudden chill pass over them. So cold they could see their breath. Doors would open and shut on their own, things would disappear and reappear, and there were always odd sounds happening. And not only would doors open and shut, but they would open and slam. Sometimes multiple times in a row. So a door would just like open and slam and open and slam and open and slam. Yeah, I feel like it's one thing if it just opens or closes. It's still creepy. You'd be like, it was the wind. It was a draft. Yeah. And then it just like keeps happening. You're like, okay. Can't really explain that one away. Yeah. It's just creepy. Many times when a door would open, it would be accompanied by a horrible stench of rotting flesh, especially when the seller door or pantry door would open. So these specific doors, whenever they would open, it would fill the house with this awful like pungent rotting smell. Yeah. Also all the clock stopped at 515. What the fuck? Yeah. So this is just the beginning. This is the warm up. This is all creepy, but nothing so terrifying yet. So when. It was a-am, or PM. It was a-am. When Carolyn first brought up the issue to Roger, he immediately brushed it off. She told him she constantly felt as if she was. was being watched, and she was hearing weird noises and seeing things. But he told her that she was just paranoid from living in Cumberland for too long, and everything was fine. The girls had come to terms with the fact that not everything in life is as it appeared. But with each experience they had, they knew they couldn't share that information with their father, and they didn't even want to share it with their mother. They barely spoke about their experiences with each other. It was just an unspoken understanding that their house was spooky. One day when the girls had arrived home from school, Carolyn had left April asleep in the other room as she greeted her other four daughters. But as the four of them sat at the table enjoying an after-school snack, April wandered into the room, still wrapped in her blanket. She was disgruntled and demanded to know why she had been so rudely awakened just moments earlier. She asked her sisters, "Who shook me like that?" April began to cry, so Carolyn picked her up and assured her that no one had been in the room with her while she was asleep, and definitely none of them had shaken her awake. This is not comforting. No, it's not. But she's like, "Okay, this is just my little baby daughter. She probably scared herself." But no, she probably was shaken awake. Cindy started having experiences in her bedroom at night. The upstairs had three large bedrooms that the girls took up. They had doors between them that they always kept open because it was the only way to circulate heat between them. Cindy, who shared her room with her sister Christine at the time, kept coming into Andrea's room to sleep in bed with her. This was within a day or two of living on the farm. Cindy told Andrea she had been hearing voices in her room. An Andrea at first believed it was just Christine who would sleep talk. But Cindy told her, "No, Christine isn't talking. She was sound asleep. She heard multiple voices all talking at once, completely surrounding her bed." And according to Cindy, who was only around seven years old at the time, they were all saying the same thing. And Andrea asked what that was. And that was, there are seven dead soldiers buried in the wall. They're all saying that? At the same time. Yeah. Like, in unison? Multiple voices all around her bed in unison saying there are seven dead soldiers buried in the wall. So they're not like overlapping. They're all white. Well, maybe they were, honestly, I don't know. But they were all saying that all at once. I can't tell which one's creepier. I think maybe not unison would be scarier. I don't know. They're both terrified. They're both pretty bad. What was their tongue? Was it like fun? Or were they singing? I'm sorry. Do you think I was there? I don't know. I'm just saying. It would be kind of funny if they were singing it. They weren't. It wasn't silly. It was spooky. Spooky. She said that they would say it over and over and they progressively got louder and louder with each time they said it. Okay. No. She wasn't sure how it didn't wake up everyone in the house. And she would hear those voices almost every night for the 10 years she lived there. Every night? Almost. Yeah. And it didn't matter. And it didn't matter what room she slept in. She would just have this happen. Needless to say. It's like guys, she knows. Okay. Yeah. She's aware. There are seven dead soldiers buried in the wall. I didn't. I didn't like enough. Right. Yeah. It's really scary to think about. I mean, that's terrifying. I mean, did she get any sleep ever? Yeah. She did. She did. I mean, I didn't like the blanket over her head and she would just go to sleep. Oh my God. That's pretty metal. It was pretty metal. I mean, I mean, like after that, try and scare her. Right. She's like, dude, oh well, no idea. There are definitely scary things that happen to her. Oh, I know. I'm sure. Yeah. But I'm just saying like after the experience when she moves out. Right. Yeah. You can't really do anything that will surprise her. Yeah. Needless to say, the children learn to travel and packs fairly quickly. They knew from day one that their home was a shared space and none of them traversed it alone unless absolutely necessary. Although they're traveling in packs didn't save them because weird shit still kept happening. The girls would often play together with their chalkboard. Andrea would teach the other girls a lesson. But since they all traveled in packs, when one of them was hungry or needed to use the bathroom, they would all go get a snack or use the bathroom. However, after one of these group trips to the kitchen, they returned to their room to find that their entire lesson had been wiped clean from the chalkboard. It didn't matter how many times they rewrote the lesson or what subject they were learning about, it would be smudged beyond recognition or completely wiped clean. None of them ever said a word about it to each other, which is really strange. They would just walk into the room and see that the lesson was wiped away and they would just like silently restart or like do something else. This is wild to me. They didn't talk about it at all. At some point they do, but there were certain things that it was just an understanding that it wasn't them. They didn't have to be like, "Oh, Christine, you wiped it away because they knew it wasn't them." I don't know. That just would never be me. I'd be like, "Hey." Huh? Yeah, it's spooky, but what are they going to do with their house? Probably happens so often at a certain point. You come to this, but just seem shocking to me. When they re-entered the room to find that the board was like that, they would just heave a heavy sigh, but that was it. They'd just be like, "Oh, God. Again? Again." Henry, please. Huh? It wasn't Henry. They decided to move the chalkboard out into the woodshed, hoping that the change of scenery would deter whoever was messing with them. And for a time it worked. But after several days of peaceful sessions, the group returned to the woodshed from getting a snack and found that it had not only been smudged, but it was twisted 90 degrees. One weekend, the kids found their chalkboard had been thrown and smashed to pieces. It was nothing but a mess of splintered wood. This was after a weekend of not having played this lesson thing. They were just minding their business and then their dad called them into the woodshed and was like, "What the hell?" And their chalkboard was shattered. Wow. Not cool. It's spirits. Seriously. It was even capable of lifting the chalkboard, let alone throwing it 20 feet, which is what happened. It was literally thrown. The children were devastated because they loved their lessons in playing with the chalkboard. They had so many questions, but there was just no answer to them. Carolyn would soon experience something so terrifying that she banned her kids from even stepping foot in their barn or the woodshed. On one afternoon while the girls were at school, Carolyn decided to go out to the barn. After her initial tour of the property, Mr. Kenyon had taken her into the barn and expressed how proud of it he was. As she looked around, she noticed a hand side hanging overhead, dangling precariously from the highest beam, more than 30 feet from the ground. And a hand side is like a sharp rounded tool that's used for cutting and bailing hay. It was just like dangling from the center beam, super high up in the barn. Like the hook. Yeah. Think like Russia. Yes. I think Russian flying. Yes. She didn't think that the sithe had been hanging like that the last time she was in there, but it was very dark in the barn so she just told herself maybe she had missed it. She entered from the smaller side door and left it open so that some light would come in. And the old barn was brutally cold and everything was extremely still and silent. It was so quiet Carolyn could hear her own heartbeat. But all of a sudden she heard this whooshing sound. At first she thought maybe it was a bird or an owl that had gotten stuck at the top of the barn, but as she looked up to see, she saw the sithe was coming down at her. She recalled being instantly frozen in place and watched it as it fell down at her. She wanted to move but her body wouldn't let her. And suddenly the sharp tool struck her, the blade slicing hard across both her neck and her shoulder. By some stroke of luck the multiple layers she had on and her husband's bulky leather jacket had taken the majority of the impact and it didn't kill her. Although without those layers it easily could have. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey everyone, check out this guy in his bird. What is this your first date? Oh no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Meet a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your leg anyways. Get a quote at LibertyNutual.com or with your local agent. Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off. And Granger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-Granger, visit Granger.com or just up by Granger for the ones who get it done. The jacket was destroyed. It was basically sliced in half, but she thankfully didn't get her head cut off. That's terrifying. Uh-huh. She felt like she couldn't move. Yeah, she said she was like paralyzed. Wow. Yeah, she wanted to, but she just couldn't. I mean, this is beyond any spooky. This is like. It's dangerous. Yeah. Oh, it'll get dangerous. And do you know how big it was? It was a hand-side, so it's like a. maybe. You're showing me like a two-foot thing? Probably. Yeah. That's big. Yeah. And it was just like swinging from the center beam. She was like, "How did, first of all, why would anyone put it there?" And second of all, how did they get it there? Because it was 30 feet in the air. And she saw it and was like, "That wasn't there last time." And also, the barn was extremely still and quiet. out of nowhere started swinging and then fell down at her. She just couldn't explain it. She was like what just happened. Yeah, while saved by the coat. Mm-hmm. Terrifying. After that, she told her kids they weren't allowed in the barn or the wood shed anymore, which they were not happy about. But, you know, maybe a good call. Yeah, probably. The siphon incident left a huge bruise on Carolyn's shoulder, and that wouldn't be the only time that she was physically attacked, leaving actual marks on her body. It was just one of many. There seemed to be one spirit who was tormenting her. This spirit believed they were the woman of the house, and saw Carolyn as a threat to that. And so much of the really terrible haunting happened to Carolyn. She was like, for sure, the target. Target. Yes. And she felt like she was losing her mind. But at the same time, she knew that what was happening wasn't just in her head. Even still, it would be months before she told her husband or anyone about what had happened. Carolyn had had enough of their house and her husband at that point, because anytime she brought anything up, he would not believe her or he would blame it on her, which was incredibly frustrating. And at this point, she wanted to leave. But now they really didn't have any money to move, and they didn't have any equity in this house. So they were stuck there. That and because her children and Roger didn't want to leave. Despite the scary things going on and the frigid temperatures inside that house, they were like, hmm, we love it here. Yeah, I mean, that's tough because I don't know if you don't believe in it, like, you're probably just gonna brush it off, but it's kind of crazy that he's blaming her. Yeah, he thought his wife was literally losing her mind for real. He's like, uh-oh. Some of it probably made sense. Yeah. And at some point, when he couldn't explain things away and when he saw things himself or experienced things himself, he still denied it because he was afraid. Yeah, I made it make sense. And I get that, but also it really drove a wedge between their relationship and like, it wasn't good. Like, it was really negative in that household. Although the fireplace had been boarded up, Carolyn decided one day when Roger was away that she was going to pry it open and hopefully bring an end to the horrible cold that she was experiencing because she was like chilled to the bone. Like, it was almost always like a blizzard happening and it was an old farmhouse that had no heat. Like, it was awfully cold. And these fireplaces were like boarded up for whatever reason. And Mr. Kenyon lived there for so many years and endured these winters and she's like, why are these boarded up? What is the purpose? So she took a rusty crowbar to it and she spent the entire day pulling apart that fireplace. However, after she disturbed this fireplace that had been sealed for who knows how long she may have triggered a bunch of supernatural activity in the house. Like, it got really bad after the fireplace was destroyed. It wasn't destroyed. It was just opened. But once that fireplace had been exposed, Carolyn needed a shower after a long day of hard work. However, she wasn't alone in that bathroom. As she was in the shower, their neighbor Mrs. Pettigrew had stopped by to say hello and to drop off a cake that she had baked for the family. And as Carolyn had gotten out of the shower, she stepped into this small room they called the warm room, which was basically just a closet space off of the bathroom that was much warmer than the rest of the house. So it's where the kids in Carolyn would like get dressed after the shower. And as she took off her robe to get dressed, a hanger in the closet lifted off of the rack and began beating Carolyn. Oh my god. It was as if someone was holding the hanger and was beating her over the head, neck, and body like multiple hits. And hearing the commotion, one of her girls opened the closet door and they all witnessed Carolyn being beaten with a hanger by something that wasn't there. And after the beating stopped, no one could believe their eyes. Like the kids and the neighbor saw Carolyn being beaten by like a disembodied hanger. Oh, like the neighbor's too. Oh yeah. Okay. Uh-huh. Not just the kids. It's Roger going to believe this one. He was away and no, he's not going to believe this. I mean, dude, I mean, I how many times do I have to say this? Like that was a murder people get convicted. That's true. If that hanger murdered her by a person like that, you know, it's enough. Yeah, no, I mean, that's enough witnesses to convict someone. It is. Yeah. It was almost like something in the house was punishing her for what she had done that day. And after that Mrs. Pettigrew didn't return to the house ever. And who complained? And I do fuck this shit. I'm out. I do not blame her. I mean, but this is so the side almost killed her. Now she's being beaten by a floating hanger. Yep. And it still gets worse. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I would take the hanger over some of the other things that happened to her. Yeah. Roger was away on a trip. At this time, he was like a traveling jewelry salesman like he sold jewelry out of his trunk. Really? Yeah. But when he saw the bruises all over Carolyn's body, he asked her what it was from. And she told him about the weird thing that had been happening. But he thought his wife was just losing her mind. And that of course put a huge strain on their marriage and fed into the negative energy in the house. Like I said, did he talk to the neighbor? I mean, did she tell him? Yeah. She was like all the kids and the neighbor saw it. I'm not making this up. And he was like, I don't ask him. He was like, I don't want to hear it. Dude. He like thought she was doing it to herself. It was not good. Because she was covered in bruises from like head to toe. Roger. Not cool. Not cool, Roger. Yeah. The many months of enduring horrifying experiences had taken a huge toll on Carolyn, as you could expect. She barely slept eight. And it was as if she was aging at twice the speed she should have been from the stress anxiety and dread was a permanent state for Carolyn. But at least now they would have a fire to keep warm. Like, I mean, there was that. Simple things in life. You know, it was weird because the thing that was attacking Carolyn really liked Roger. It was as if it wanted to replace Carolyn. Like, it was kind of enamored with Roger and liked the kids kind of, but like, was attacking Carolyn. Wow. I mean, it would still scare the kids. Like, the kids weren't super safe, but like, Roger's experiences with this being was like almost like loving. It's already really creepy, but it continues to get more so. Yeah. I like, I'll get into the specifics of that later, but Roger's experiences with this thing is like not scary. Like, I mean, scary in that it's a ghost, and you're like, Oh, God, which has happened, but like, not the type of haunting that Carolyn got. And it did take a while for this to happen because for like the first year or so they lived there, I mean, kind of more than that, Roger just fully did not believe his wife when she said weird things were happening and that she was being attacked. But when their bed started moving to the middle of their bedroom while they slept, he couldn't really ignore that or like explain it away, because like, the bed would just be in the middle of the room. And he was like, what? And she's like, dude, I've been telling you. It was a draft. It's just the floorboards Roger, right? Roger, are you okay? Yeah. He would also feel like someone was caressing his back or touching his arm or his head. And the first few times he thought that it was his wife and would turn around to find no one in the room with him. Oh my God. Yeah, like one time they had a fight and he like went into the kitchen or whatever. And then he felt like a hand go like from his shoulders and like down his back. And he thought that it was Carolyn like coming to like make up. And he was like, Oh, like, you decided to join me and they turned around and there was no one there. And he was like, Oh, yeah, Alex is shaking his head. No, no, thank you. No, thank you. But also like the sith and hanger. Yeah. And it's going to get worse for Carolyn. So while that was Roger's experience, Carolyn was being tormented at all hours of the day and night. She would wake up in the night to find her bedroom on fire. The curtains, the curtains, the quilt, the floor, her furniture. And before Carolyn could even get up, the fire went out and the room was once again dark. She was left speechless on the floor. Like she got up and was on the floor. And she was like, what just happened? And she like looked out into the parlor and saw that the fireplace wasn't even active like it was dead. It's confusing. Yeah. It's like, what do you just say? What? And that wasn't even the worst one. One night Carolyn had heard the distinct sound of footsteps approaching her bed and sensing a presence next to her, assuming it was one of her children, she reached out and said, what's the matter, honey? But when she opened her eyes, she saw a grotesque figure of a woman hovering above her bed. This is like some of the description from Andrea Perrin's book. She was staring directly into a terrifying apparition of a woman, which had been wearing a rusty green hand made hand dyed fabric dress with a belt cinched at the waist with an oval buckle covered in the same fabric. She had an ugly beehive head, a hornet's nest of a face, a broken neck snapped and was hanging to the side. It had no face, no eyes, no mouth, just a mess of rotting flesh with wisps of wiery hair on the top of its head. It had no hands and no feet, and it was floating above her. And it was so cold she couldn't breathe and so close to her, it looked like it wanted to touch her or give her the kiss of death. It was directly over her, like she opened her eyes to this horrifying being over her. Damn, I would say this is sleep paralysis of everything else wasn't happening. Yeah, it's not. It's not. It didn't have hands or feet. No, and it didn't have like a face. A face? Yeah, it was just like stumps and like a head, but it was very obviously a person, but like, you know, with no features. I mean, the snap neck is just next level. Yeah, I mean, if you've seen haunting a hillhouse, it's the bent neck lady. Like, I mean, it's scarier than the bent neck lady. But that's what it is. I wonder if they got inspiration from this because it's very close to what it shows in the show. It would make sense. Yeah. Its head was leaning sharply forward as it approached her as if it were studying her. Carolyn, who was paralyzed with fear, tried desperately to scream or to wake up Roger, but nothing was working. She wanted to hide under the covers, and their bed slammed up against the wall, and Carolyn threw herself on top of Roger, hoping to get some distance between herself and this being. Although nothing was coming out of her mouth, she felt like she was screaming at full volume. In the last moment before the thing got to her, she managed to whisper "God help me." And then the thing vanished. Roger then began to wake up and like kind of stir. After Carolyn had basically clawed at him like a wild animal, although he just rolled over and fell back asleep. Yep. Carolyn, who could not sleep, went out into the parlor to escape the hellhole that was her bedroom. She wrote down everything she saw in her notebook. And the next morning when Andrea came down the stairs, she happened to see her mother's notebook because she accidentally left it open, and she approached her mother and was like, "You saw it too?" "Whoa." Yeah. She told her mother she had a terrible nightmare where she saw exactly the woman that her mother had drawn and explained in the notebook. And this woman wanted to hurt her mother, and Andrea wanted to help her mother because she could hear her mother screaming, but it wouldn't let her. Excuse me. So Andrea heard her mom screaming. Yes. And the thing told her like, "Navro." In so many words, yeah, it- Andrea talked to her? I don't know that it talked to her, but it was like in her dream, she saw the thing like approaching her mother to attack her mother, and she heard her mother screaming and she wanted to go and help her, but like she couldn't. Like she was like paralyzed almost. Oh. Which is scary enough, but it turned out Andrea wasn't the only child to have seen this terrifying encounter in a dream. Her other children did as well. They all came to her except April, I think, unprompted, and was like, "I had a terrible nightmare," and explained exactly that. Dude. Is that what I was saying? Dude. I see. What else is there to say? No, I know. It's like, it's not sleep paralysis because all of them had the exact same experience, but Carolens was just like amplified. Yeah. I mean, it had some of the characteristics, but you know, given everything else, and the independently verified dream by all of the daughters except for one. Yeah. I mean, that we know of. Like April didn't come to her and say anything because she was a baby. So it's like, if she had the nightmare, she's not going to be like, I don't know. I don't know. I forgot it. Yeah, even if she says like, "Oh, I had a nightmare," like she's not going to explain this in like such a sophisticated way. She's a kid, you know? I don't know. So this was the first moment that Andrea and the other daughters realized that their mother had been experiencing things too. So they finally got to talk about it with each other because at this point, the girls were like, not sure that their mother was experiencing things as well, and that's why they weren't really talking to their mom about it. Like they were having experiences themselves, but they didn't want to bring it up. Yeah. And talking about it with her daughters wasn't exactly comforting because the last thing Carolyn wanted was for her children to be experiencing the things that she had. She found out that when the girls had been playing hide and seek, I believe Cindy had gotten stuck behind what used to be an old chimney, but she said it felt like she was being squeezed by something. She was being squeezed so tightly that she couldn't breathe and it felt like her bones would break, but then her sister found her and it stopped. It was like almost like a bubble had burst and everything just like stopped happening. I don't know. We're like what halfway? About. Dude. This is going to be my thing this episode. Just saying dude. Dude. Sure. Of all the kids, Cindy experienced a lot. Andrea speculated that this was because when Cindy was a baby, she had flatlined at one point, like she became I think sick and like in the hospital had flatlined and she thinks that the spirits were drawn to her because she had crossed over to the other side at some point. That's crazy. So she was clinically dead for some period of time because of an illness. I think a short period of time. I don't actually know what caused it, but she had an experience where she flatlined. Yeah. Did she have any recollection of that? Like. I don't think so. I think she was a baby. That's wild. Yeah. The kids also told their mother after she tucked them in a different woman would come into their rooms at night and kiss them before they went to bed. And they knew that it wasn't their mother because one, she smelled totally different and two, they know what their mother looks like and it wasn't their mother. Okay. Maybe lead with that one. Well, they said they were like, oh, you smell like flowers and she smelled like fruit or something. She smelled like ass. No, no, it was actually it wasn't the smell they wanted. It was like the one she they were like, oh, she smells like fruit or something. So they knew it was like a cute but it was then followed by a third woman who would come into their room around 3 a.m. and she would make the room stink like rotting flesh and they knew that she was the one that quote unquote hated mommy. Not not as chill. Not cute. Yeah. Not more not as chill. Cindy with the rotting flesh. Not disgusting. Yeah, it's giving demon. It's serving demon. Unfortunately, I hate to say it, but it is. Cindy also heard and saw a young girl who would cry for her mommy and Cindy knew that she was sick. So that's just terrifying and gross. Like she would just see a little girl like crying sometimes. Yeah. I mean, you say that, but I feel like we've already like been conditioned. We've already got. Yeah, we've gotten some really bad ones. So like to hear about a half way. A young girl crying. You're like, okay, and yeah, now I hear Roger get like touched, like, caressed in the kitchen and I'm like, that's what like that's what I said. It's like he got the loving side of the haunting. It's like, why would you want anything else but Roger's experience? I know, but like also boring. Right. You know, at this point. Yeah. Yeah, it makes the like scary ghost children seem not so scary. Yeah. It's like Henry was like a neighborhood kid, you know. Yeah, I don't know. There was a lot of spirits there. Like there were a lot of people that died there and they were all chilling. This is another question I have is like, do old buildings just kind of have ghosts collect ghosts? Like they inevitably just become haunted. If that's the case, I don't want to know. Cool. Because then I'll be thinking about that anytime I go into a super old place. Like I already kind of do. I'm already like, oh, this is places. This place is old. Like it's probably haunted, but like I don't think too hard about it. But like if I had confirmation that that was just like a thing, like anywhere you go, there's just ghosts. I'd be more freaked, I think. But I think that's kind of what it is. I don't know. Maybe I sound crazy now. I've just been researching the Conjuring House too much, I think. Yeah. The family would go to church, but the priest and the congregation didn't want them there. A rumor had begun to spread that they were Satan worshipers and people began to look at them very weirdly. And the girls were teased and taunted regularly at school. That sucks, but I do feel like I don't know. Kind of small bones to having rotting flesh lady because you good night. Right. Yeah. It's like that isn't going to hurt me, right? Sticks and stones. But your words will never hurt me. So, Carolyn mostly ignored it because it was better than what was going on at home, right? Because she was still being constantly attacked. Her energy was being depleted. She was living off of coffee and cigarettes, which of course wasn't good. And one evening, she was stabbed in the calf. She was sitting on the couch when she felt a sharp pain and looked down to find her calf was badly bleeding. And when she cleaned it off, she saw what looked like a deep puncture wound from a large sewing needle. God. She was just sitting on the couch and she was stabbed in the calf. By a sewing needle? What looked like it? Yeah. So it was like a small hole. It's like a large sewing needle. So like it's a puncture wound. Like it's not like a tiny little sewing needle. It's like a sizable one. Fuck that must have hurt. Yeah. Yeah. You just want to get stabbed in the calf and then you're just bleeding on the couch. Like what? Also like so like out of nowhere too. Yeah. She's just like sitting trying to enjoy the fireplace and she gets stabbed in her living room. She also had a fainting spell where she fell into the fire. They really did not appreciate that. Did they? Yeah. But Roger thankfully immediately scooped her back up and she didn't burn alive. But that was terrifying and that continued to happen. Like she had fainting spells and a couple more scares with the fireplace. She had to like keep a distance from the fireplace. Otherwise she would like fall into it. That's nuts. Like just draw a line around it. Kind of like falling distance. Yeah. Keep a safe distance because otherwise someone's going to push you in the pool. But it's not the pool. It's the fireplace. This poor woman just how how much more I mean she's got to be loose. If she wasn't losing it. Oh she was losing it. She looked like so much older than she actually was because she was just constantly terrified and like she wasn't taking care of herself. She wasn't eating. She wasn't sleeping. She was just like surviving quite literally. Yeah. And after her kids like after she talked to her kids about the experiences they had been having. She wasn't relieved in that her kids were experiencing scary things. But she was relieved in that she was like okay let's get out of this house. Like let's sell it. And the kids were like no we love it here. And she was like what? What do you mean? Like why don't you want to leave? And they were like because we love our ghosts. She's like I hate to break it to you. Mommy's gonna fall on the fire one day. Yeah. Mommy's getting If we don't get out of here. Yeah. Mommy's being tormented, girls, like what? There would be times when the tormenting would stop. And after a while of nothing happening, Carolyn would almost start to feel comfortable, but then something would happen. And it would start all over. Her room set on fire in the middle of the night again. But this time, it wasn't just fire or the terrifying bent necklady. This time, her bed was surrounded by eight to 10 spirits, holding torches and chanting something at her. They were telling her that she was not the mistress of the house, and they were going to drive her out with fire. And this is what Andrea Perrin wrote in her book, like in quotes, was mistress once a four, he came, and mistress here will be again. Will drive you out with fiery broom, will drive you mad with death and gloom. So I don't know if that's exactly what they were chanting, but that's what Andrea Perrin wrote in her book. The Jesus. No, that's horrifying. That's so scary. Could you imagine? Your bed is surrounded. Like eight to 10 spirits, holding torches that are lit and your room's on fire, by the way. And also the bent necklady, she's there. She is there. How funny would be though if she had a beautiful voice? Ah, dead and gloom. No, that's not the case. It was bad. And Roger was asleep in bed for that. He was in the room, and again, she clawed at him and he didn't wake up, and then he woke up to her claw marks on him, and he was like, what the hell? And she was like, you don't understand. You don't understand. You would have done it too. Yeah, I mean. It's my party, and I will cry if I want to. Yeah, I just, I can't really imagine anything more terrifying than that. Right? Well, let's keep going. So after that incident, Carolyn was determined to figure out what demon wished her dead, or what spirit in the house was doing this. She wanted to learn everything she could about the property to hopefully provide some kind of explanation. Thankfully, Carolyn did find a friend in this search. She was a woman named Fran, who also lived in a haunted house. Thank God for Fran. Right? So at least she had someone. But I mean, Fran's haunting was nothing compared to what she was going through. She was just like a spirit who played the piano sometimes. Like it was-- Oh, yeah. Like our TV turns on from time to time. Right. And she's like, I got some for you. Fran, listen to this. But at least-- Fran, do you like fires? Yeah, right. At least she now had someone she could talk to that believed her, because she wasn't going to talk to the kids about all these terrifying experiences because she didn't want to scare them. And Roger didn't believe her. So even if she told him, he didn't care. I mean, he cared about his wife. But their relationship was on the rocks. And he was not believing her. And she did have other people in her life that she could talk to. I think it was her lawyer named Sam, or something. This is kind of a backburner thing that I didn't really talk about in my notes. But she did have someone in her life named Sam, who she was talking to, but he wasn't nearby. She could just see him whenever she wanted to. She would talk to him on the phone. And he believed her, because he also had experienced ghosts and stuff. But it's not like he was in her day-to-day life. Yeah, but he's her lawyer? I think he was something like that. If not her lawyer, it was something to do with-- because she would talk to him when she was like, I want to sell the house. And he was like, you can't. So he was like, their real tour, their finance. Maybe. It was something like that. It doesn't really matter. I just was asking if she was kind of looking to get a divorce type of-- No, not that point. Lawyer. Not at that point. Although I didn't write this in my notes either. After they did leave the house, they do get a divorce. But the entire 10-year span that they're in the house, they're married and stay together. Wow. Yeah. 10 years of this? Oh, yeah. Dude, how do you-- see? There I go again. Just-- I'm dumbfounded. Yeah. You can endure this for a decade. So anyway, what I was saying, thankfully, she has a friend named Fran. And she's looking into the history of the house. And when she looked into the house, she discovered that it had been owned by the same family for eight generations, many of whom had died in the house under unexplained or horrible circumstances, including drownings in the creek on the property, murders, and suicide. And this was the Arnold family. And then there was also a woman named Beth Sheba Sherman, who was associated with the property. Although she never lived in the Arnold home, she did live on a farm on the property. So she was on the property, but she wasn't in the actual house, if that makes sense. OK. But this was the dog. Right. OK. So it's weird that Carolyn said, hey, let's name our dog, Beth Sheba, because many people believe that the person or spirit or entity, whatever, that was haunting her and wanted her dead and gone, basically, was Beth Sheba Sherman. So she was like, there could only be one Beth Sheba. There could only be one mistress-- One mistress of the house. And it was her. But she's not living the house. So let me keep going. So she was born in 1812 in Rhode Island and married a man named Judson Sherman, who worked on the Arnold property. Beth Sheba was known to be a wicked woman and rumors spread around the town that she was a witch. The townspeople felt that their suspicions were correct when a baby that was in her care died under mysterious circumstances. When an autopsy was performed, the medical examiner determined the cause of death was a puncture wound at the base of the baby's skull that was done possibly by a large sewing needle. OK. This is just getting creepier. Right. So many believed Beth Sheba had killed the baby as a part of his hitanic ritual. There were many people who believed Beth Sheba should burn at the stake for what she had done. However, she was acquitted since there was no evidence to prove anything. She died on May 25, 1885, four years after her husband Judson died on the Arnold estate property. So they think like because her husband worked at the house or near the house and he died there, and she lived technically on the property, that her spirit resides there. Yeah, wow. How did she get acquitted? So like-- There was no evidence. There was no evidence. Yeah, but you were watching the baby, right? Yep. So you're in the same place as the baby. That's what you would think. And then the autopsy shows a puncture wound. Puncture wound to the skull from a sewing needle. Yep. They suspected a sewing needle, but they didn't have proof of it. A puncture wound from something. Yeah. And the baby fell on it. I don't know. I guess I see that there's no physical evidence tying her to it. Right. But who else would it have been? Like, it's not like a needle just found its way there. Well, it happened in 1880 something, or 1870 something. So like, I don't know, you know, like who knows. But Bathsheba Sherman is the spirit that the makers of the Conjuring movie focused on, and many believe that Bathsheba was behind the torment of Carolyn Parent. Like, if you have seen the Conjuring movie, she's the demon. Like, she's the one that is terrifying in the movie. And Andrea Parent is actually a huge defender of Bathsheba Sherman, because she believes that the spirit is misunderstood. And the whole murder trial and Satan worship or thing was just ludicrous to Andrea. And because of the Conjuring movie, Bathsheba doesn't even have a proper headstone since her grave has been vandalized so many times from people who saw the movie and like literally just destroyed her grave. And Andrea hates that. Yeah, I mean, that's not cool. Right. And also there's never been any proof or evidence that it is Bathsheba who did that to Carolyn, obviously, 'cause how could you? 'Cause how could you? I guess she's acquitted in death as well. But, you know, people believe it. And Lorraine Warren, who we're gonna talk about, believed it was Bathsheba, or someone, you know, some demon or something. But she was like, probably Bathsheba. And she just pulled that out of her head. She's like, oh, Bathsheba's here. Damn. I mean, also what a weird name. Yeah, yeah, and they named the dog that, out of nowhere. Weird. I'm not weird. Anyway. (clock ticking) If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, sleep number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1,200 on mattresses for a limited time. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a sleep number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep number to a good life sleep. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. 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Either two paranormal investigators claimed Carolyn called them about her home, although Carolyn said that she never did this, but it was those investigators who tracked down Ed and Lorraine Warren and told them about the farmhouse. Or it was a family friend who contacted the Warrens, either way, the Warrens came to their house and not by the request of the parents. - Interesting. I also wonder if she called them and didn't remember it or something. I mean, she really is in this bad shape. It wouldn't be crazy to me if she-- - Possibly? I mean, I-- - It was in that state. - Out of the realm of possibility, but Andrea has said many times that her mother is like, dead set that she has never called anyone about it. - Yeah. - So one October evening, after four years of living in this house, the Warrens literally just showed up on their doorstep and asked if they could come in. And the parents were like-- - Sure, so then I have some coffee. - Yeah, they were like, "Hello, old couple coming in from the night." Like, "Sure, it's the 70s. You can come in." Like, you know? - I was in the neighborhood. - Right. - And Lorraine Warren were extremely famous demonologists for those of you who don't know. Lorraine Warren was a psychic medium and the two of them traveled the country helping people with their dangerous hauntings. And, you know, they-- I guess they gave themselves the name demonologists, 'cause they like, you know, quote unquote, "specialized" in demons. So they have an extensive list of hauntings that they've been a part of, one of which was the original Annabelle story. So maybe we'll talk about that at some point, but that's not today. That's just one of the things that they've been a part of. On their first trip to the farmhouse, Lorraine asked for a walkthrough. And when she entered the couple's bedroom, she immediately stopped and said, "No one should sleep in this bedroom." (laughing) Isn't that just awful? - Well, I mean, probably pretty validating. - Well, yeah, but not only did she say that, she also suggested they board it up and stop using it entirely. She's like, "Um, no one should step foot in this room." - God, it's terrifying. - Yeah. She also stopped inside the laundry room through the pantry door, which if we remember, was the one that never stopped opening and slamming, or one of the ones. Lorraine stepped inside and then immediately backed out, startled by the negative energy in the room, and said, quote, "Something awful happened in there. "Violent, the poor thing, so young, "a girl, blood, definitely a female." And she said that the door kept opening because this girl was just reliving what happened and she was trying to escape. Which is so sad, if that is true, but she just literally walked into the most active places in the house and pulled it out of thin air that like, this is the place that's spooky, and here's why. - Yeah. - Don't love it. - Uncomfy. - Yeah, don't love it. She suggested they have a conversation with the children, meaning her and Ed talked to the children, and although Roger was not at all on board for that, Carolyn convinced him it may help their family in the long run because Lorraine had convinced Carolyn that the kids were in grave danger. So she was like, I think we should let them talk to them. So the warrants met the kids and they were stunned by what the kids had to tell them about the many spirits they regularly saw and interacted with. Like all of the kids were like, oh yeah, and I talked to this one and I see this one and this is what happens at night. And like, I hear tapping and I smell rotting flesh and then this woman comes into my room and she scares me so I pull the blanket over my head and then I see the little girl crying and then, you know, what are, they just wouldn't shut up. Like they had hundreds of things, each of them basically. And the warrants were like, what? - They're just, they're dumbfounded. - Yes. - And Roger didn't know any of this? - I don't know if he knew or not, but he definitely didn't believe it. I don't think he did because the kids didn't like tell their father because he would have like outbursts and he was like angry sometimes and they were just like, we're not gonna tell dad. - Yeah, well I'm just saying like, hearing all of this at once must be overwhelming if you believe it at all. - Right. The warrants were also extremely concerned about Carolyn, not just the children, but Carolyn as well because at times it seemed like she was in a trance and would stare and would go through like waves of extremely aggressive behavior, which they knew was unlike her because she would like yell at them over something and then like two seconds later she would like forget that it even happened and be like, oh, like would you like some tea or like something? It was just, it was very weird. And they were like, I don't know. - Some things up with you. - Some things, some things eating you. Something scary is eating you right now. Lorraine was convinced that a demon, potentially Beth Shiba or something else, someone unintentionally invited into their home was attaching itself to Carolyn and attacking her. So that's what Lorraine said. She wasn't quite possessed, but from what Lorraine felt she was getting there. So she's like on her way to possession. - Yeah, and I guess this is where I have a question. - Okay. - How do that work? - So there are like stages of I guess demonic possession. - Is this like a thing, is it like demonology, like, is it like a textbook? - Well, I don't think so. - You know, this is the stages. - It's like you can't really say you're like as an expert in any of this because it's like pseudoscience. - I'm just wondering if it has progressed to a point where people like Ed and Lorraine Warren are like, oh yeah, step one, they-- - It's like invitation and step two. It's like oppression and it's something. - Yeah, well, so from Ed and Lorraine Warren's perspective they had had many experiences with these beings, entities, whatever, they go into a house and they are like, Lorraine Warren could either see things or she knew what was going on or she could like communicate with these beings, I don't know, but on multiple occasions, they would go in and like see these, like the progression of things. So from their standpoint, it was almost as if Carolyn was like holding hands with a demon, but it wasn't quite wearing her skin yet. Because if like a possession-- - Interesting. - Because a possession, at least from what I perceive it as is like it's using your body, it's like wearing you basically and it's like communicating through you and it takes over your body and wants your soul, I don't know, who knows? But it doesn't just happen overnight, there are stages to it. And this is getting real woo-woo and this is interesting stuff that I like to read about. - I don't know if I believe it or not. - It's how the ween. - Yeah, I don't know. - Who knows for real? - Right, like I don't know. But from what they knew, they were like, she's on her way to being possessed. - How does one stop the progression? - So they thought that they could. They were like, okay, we're gonna do a saiyance and we can get this demon away from you. - Right, it's like, it's not quite terminal, but it's a stage that's not good. - Yeah, it's bad. Lorraine suggested they do a saiyance with a priest and another medium and a tech crew. - A tech crew? - Well, that was more for recording it for evidence. - Yeah. - Yeah, they were like, we wanna get our own evidence, so we're gonna bring in cameras and recording devices. But for Carolyn's sake, they brought in a priest and another medium or they were going to. And that took quite a bit of convincing as well, but after multiple visits from the Warrens, they finally decided that it had to happen. The Warrens, a priest and a medium named Mary and two large men entered their home to do the saiyance and document it. And what occurred that night was by far the most traumatic experience the parents would ever have. She had told her kids to find a friend's house to go to that night, but unfortunately only Nancy was successful in that, so the rest of the kids were just there. And Andrea and April watched what happened from the stairs through like a crack that they left in the doorway, 'cause the door wasn't all the way closed. So of course these kids are gonna watch what's happening and they did. - They feel like moms having a say on's. - Right, so Carolyn sat on a big chair in their parlor as the saiyance began. Mary had everyone join hands and asked for the spirit to show itself and the table began to vibrate and move, like almost immediately. It's like, truly every saiyance you've ever seen in a movie, like picture that. It's like the table table. - It happened for real? - Yes. - Damn. Carolyn's body recoiled. Her head lifted and she began mumbling a series of incoherent words in a language that no one could identify, like other worldly language. She began making noises that sounded as if it wasn't Carolyn who was making them. They were like, "This isn't Carolyn's voice. What's going on?" Her hands pulled, (laughs) I mean, in so many words. Her hands pulled free from the grasp of those on either side of her, 'cause they were like holding her. And her fingers curled and her nails impaled the palms of her hands, which then led to Carolyn screaming out in pain. And her eyes sprung open, and suddenly both of her legs drew up to her chin as if her body was forming a fireball, is how Andrea described it. A low-pitched guttural groan came from deep within her as her body trembled in place. Andrea said in her book, "It sounded like a wild animal, warning often intruder preparing to attack." She again began saying words in some other worldly language, and then began making these shrill screams. Again and again, she would throw her head back as if it was being pulled from behind. It jerked with such force it should have broken her neck. Each outburst she had was louder than the last. Roger screamed for them to stop, but as he did, Carolyn's chair lifted off the floor, where she remained suspended in the air for a few seconds before she flew straight back, as if she was thrown and everyone who was there was witnesses. Yeah. Everyone corroborated this story. Oh yeah. Dude. Oh yeah. What? How does levitation? That's the end of your sentence. How does levitation? Okay. I had just so many things, but. So as she was thrown into the parlor, which happened very quickly, she flew like really fast. Her head hit the wood floor with such force that everyone in that house believed they had just witnessed Carolyn's death. Like, that's how hard it hit. And including her two kids who were watching. Oh my god. Oh yeah. Roger immediately sprung to go to his unconscious wife on the floor. However, Ed tried to stop him telling him not to approach Carolyn, but Roger wasn't having that and he punched Ed in the face and then told them to get out of his house. Wow. Just as that happened, they heard a huge crash from downstairs and the two large tech men ran downstairs to find that all of their equipment that they had set up down there had been smashed to pieces. So it's like Carolyn got flung her head at the floor, Roger punched Ed in the face and then they heard a gigantic crash downstairs. Wow. So everything that was recording this guy destroyed. Yeah. Dude, if this tape came out. Oh my god. Could you imagine? I mean, that would. You couldn't deny that, right? Yeah. I mean, unless you're like, oh, they faked it. They have their suspending her with wires. I mean, 70s. I don't know. So they ran downstairs and they saw that their state of the art cameras and expensive equipment had been completely destroyed and they were devastated because that's like really expensive. But after the Warrens left that night, they had no idea if Carolyn even survived. Like, they left and she was unconscious. So they were like, did she die? I don't know. Oh, so like, Roger actually kicked everything. Oh yeah. He's like, get out and they all had to leave. And that was it. They were left with that. That's what they had. How do you just leave after that? You just do. I mean, you're getting kicked out. Like, what are you going to do? So the Warrens came back to the farmhouse maybe six months later to see if Carolyn had survived. And she had, but you know, when they left the. I'm sorry. Like, what do you say? Like when they left, you know, when they left that night, they thought she died. So they were coming to just be like, hey, um, did you live? And she's like, yeah, leave. Oh, she told them to leave. I don't know that she did actually. I'm just making that up. But, you know, after they left that day, they like didn't come back. It was just like, oh, are you good? And she was like, I lived. Well, actually Lorraine Warren took Carolyn's notebook that she had recorded everything in for years. And Carolyn was like, you can take it and like copy it as long as you give it back to me. And Lorraine was like, for sure. And then she never gave it back. So, you know, yeah. So she, well, because Lorraine had, I guess, said like, this is a haunted item and you can't have like, it's dangerous for it to be in the house. But they were upset about that because that was Carolyn parents like extensive notes about what had been happening. Well, just copy onto a non-hunted one and then give that to her. Just give it back. I don't know if that's how it works. I don't know. But anyway, either way, Lorraine didn't give it back and they didn't come back to the house after that. Out of the many, many hauntings, the Warrens investigated, Ed described their investigation there as the most significant of all investigations they have ever conducted. So this is like top to your spooky. So they didn't even finish the sands like she's fully still possessed. Well, no, they don't think that she was possessed when it happened. Like they thought that she was being attacked or something. At least that's what Andrea says. I don't have the answers. All I know is that they were kicked out and then they remained living in the house for like another five years. So she did live, but she had sustained like a really bad concussion. So there is that. But according to Andrea, the family continued to live in the house due to financial instability until they were able to move in 1980. So that was like another four or five years that they were there. And after that, they moved to Georgia. However, I believe Nancy or one of the sisters I know didn't want to leave the farmhouse and she stayed back to act as a caretaker for the house. So like a new a new couple bought it and she was like, can I stay and they were like, yeah, this is so so bizarre. And the Conjuring movie was clearly extremely different than the actual story, which is arguably way scarier than the movie itself. I mean, think about any of these things happening in a movie. You'd be like, I'd like to leave. You know, and the men who made the movie read Andrea parents trilogy about her family story. And they were like, yeah, no, we're definitely not going to be able to do that because it is far too scary. Like they were like, we're actively going to not do that because otherwise people won't won't come and see it. Like it'll be too scary. Yeah. So it wasn't inspired, but it wasn't the actual thing. But like I said, Andrea parent wrote a trilogy called House of Darkness House of Light. And it is the family's full terrifying story. And I know I just talked about a lot of information, but I didn't even get anywhere near everything. Like not even just the first book I didn't spoil. Like it's, there's so much. It is three books and the they're each like 500 pages long. Like it is insane. Oh, actually, yes, you read 1500 pages for this episode. No, I didn't read all three. I read the first one and then I read part of the second one. I did a lot of, I've been reading all week. Like I've been reading and listening to hours of interviews with Andrea all week long. And like last week too. Like this was a big episode, but anyway, if you guys are interested in hearing more about this story, I highly encourage you to read her books because they are extremely detailed. Like you're, you're going to get it. Like you're going to get the full story. I couldn't have told the full story in this episode if I tried. Like if I wanted to, we would have been here for so long. But also I didn't want to. Yeah, also I didn't want to spoil her books. Like she wrote this trilogy for a reason. Like go read them, you know. Yeah. And actually there are a few encounters that she left out of the books by her family's request. But from what I've heard, she's making either like a TV series or a movie of her own of her family's like real actual story that is hopefully coming out in the not so distant future. So fingers crossed, keep your eyes open for that. But one of the stories that she is including in this new project was one of her sisters, either Cindy or Nancy was taking a bath and something held her under the water, which is terrifying. And one of them like came into the bathroom and again, like burst the bubble. And it like stopped happening. Well, but I guess whatever sister this was, like didn't want her to put in the books because like at the time that she wrote these books, the paranormal like community wasn't as big. And they didn't know how it would be received. And they didn't want to be called crazy. And like, you know, all these things. So she left it out. But it will be put in whatever project she's working on, which is exciting and equally terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just such a weird position to occupy because I'm sure everyone wants to know. But it's like, she's kind of like a influencer for her family. Oh, Andrea. Oh, yeah, she is. I mean, of her sisters and her family, like she is by far the most like known face and person because she, you know, she wrote the books. And she's done so many interviews and she goes back to the house sometimes and like does talks and they did a documentary. And this is like highly documented. And as we talked about earlier, it's not really known who the main aggressor is in that house. Lorraine thought it might be Bathsheba. Others believed it was Abigail Arnold who was, you know, the, the true like mistress of the estate because it was the Arnold estate. But based off of what I've seen, it seems like Abigail Arnold is like a really nice spirit. Like we've, we've seen those videos now and it's like they're talking to Abigail and she's like, they're protector. Like she's nice, you know. But one thing for certain that I know about this house is that it is packed full of ghosts and entities. So who knows? It's just weird. It's all it's a little weird when mom levitates and gets flung across the room. Yeah, we're gets stabbed in the calf or she has like her room set on fire or she faints into the fire or she has a side fallen her or she, you know, I can keep going. I can see there's 500 pages more. There's many more pages than that. Like that's yeah. What Andrea has said about this entire experience is that love, conquer sphere, good conquer evil and that the parent family had an extreme haunting that they survived. This whole story to Andrea is like one of love. Like it's about good versus evil and like love conquering all kind of thing. So at the end of the day, it's like a love story in her eyes. And she has said like it's not all bad. A lot the kids didn't want to leave for a reason. Like a lot of these things that they experienced were very positive and like really enlightening and really beautiful. And so I kind of highlighted the scary stuff because like it's Halloween, but it wasn't all bad. One thing that is really sad is that April parent sadly died in 2017 from a prescribed fentanyl patch that she was given for surgery. So it was like literally something she was prescribed and it killed her, which is awful. Although her passing devastated the family, they also feel very comforted knowing that she isn't really gone. And they know how to look out for signs that she is with them. So at the end of the day, they're like very comforted by their experience because even though really traumatic things happened, like they now know that whenever someone passes away, they're not gone. Yeah. So I don't hate to leave it on a sad note like that. But it is. So what happened like in the five years after feels like we just kind of brushed over that. Yeah, like everything kept continuing the way it was. So they had really big periods of time, sometimes when things wouldn't really happen. The house would kind of go dormant and then things would occur and then it was waves. There was one instance where Carolyn, who was kind of like really going through it, she felt like she was losing her mind, she wasn't really eating. Same stuff that we had been talking about. She asked Andrea to heat up a bowl of stew that she had made for the whole family that night, but Carolyn had kind of slept through it. It was like later in the evening and as Andrea left the room to make her mother a pot of coffee and like heat up this stew, Carolyn said that she saw a family in her home, like also eating stew, but like it was clearly from like a different time period. And like they had seen her, like she saw two men like pointed her and like look at her and it was almost as if she was the ghost. And so she felt like really comforted by that because it was like a really happy scene that she saw and like she was the ghost of them. And so to her it was like, oh this is just like a portal, like it's just like a different dimension. Like it's not all scary, it's not all whatever. Like, I don't know. Interesting. But there were times where she felt like extremely comforted and she like didn't feel so bad about the house anymore. And I think after that say on's like the really bad tormenting stuff stopped kind of happening to her from what I remember. But things definitely still happened. Yeah, I mean, that's what I wanted to know. She's still like extremely tormenting. I'm in a break of possession. I believe except for like one, I did bring up like the major ones. So what's the one? She was attacked when she was gardening. Like there was another instance where she like drew blood. Like a gardening tool? Yeah. So anyway, that's that's that story. Anyway, I mean, it was a fresh past. We were already at an hour like over an hour. We were still cut down. People love it. It's Halloween. I don't know. I'm just not going to ask about that. I don't have all the answers. I don't know. But point being, the house wasn't all bad. It was terrifying at times and traumatizing. And Carolyn and Cindy and like a couple of them have said, I will never ever step foot in the house again. But like Andrea and their father and the other sister go back and they're like, they love it. We have, of course, Roger goes back. He's trying to get trying to get laid by the spirit. Oh God. No. It just wasn't like as scary to him because he got the loving side of the haunted. Yeah. Although that really shocks me because he like watched his wife get smacked. Yeah. Like WWE, Smackdown, Spirit Style. Uh-huh. But yeah, I mean, they're hunting didn't stop when they left either. Like it followed them a little bit like when they left the house. Yes. This is where I'm like not really as knowledgeable anymore. So like definitely go read the books, but there are three books for a reason. This is a big story. Do we have kind of a where are they now? Like what are they all still alive? Yeah. Yeah. Andrea and I believe Cindy and her mother live in Georgia and Andrea also flips back and forth. I believe between Georgia and Florida because she lives with her dad and Florida and she lives with her mom in Georgia. And she is all over the place. She's doing interviews and conferences and investigations and you know all her really cool work. So she's she's very active and she's also writing a screenplay where she has written it and it's like you know trying to get it made picked up by whoever. So I'm hype for that. I really can't wait for whatever that is. But as far as her other sisters go and her parents like they're pretty out of the spotlight. Like they just want to be normal people and they are. But yeah that is the survival of the parent family and in other words the con drink house. Yeah genuinely terrifying. I know. At 30% in. Uh huh. And it just it really kept going. I know. Happy Halloween right? Yeah. What I'm going to take from this is that it's not real. Okay. I am back into full denial. I want nothing of it. It's too scary. I don't want anything. I actually don't invite any negative energy into our space because I like our space. It feels good. And uh I hope that nothing ruins that. Yeah. I'd like to package it up in a nice box. I'm going to write return to center. No like I'll just put it right back in the mail. I'm actually quite excited to be done with this story because I have spent the last. I've been I've been extra jumpy like I am quite jumpy as it is. But like I can't even see you without being spooked like and that's not because you're doing anything. You're just existing. Yeah. Well I have been trying to like look a little extra floaty lately. You've been love it. Tading more. Um yeah. No but also like I'm like waking up in the middle of the night. I'm like freaked a little bit. So I'm ready to just go back to my normal level of jumpiness. Yeah. Well I mean if you if you see fire at night I will believe you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Are Ed and Lorraine Warren still around? They're both who are who are them now. Okay. They're they both passed. Um Ed and Lorraine Warren had a like haunted museum in their house from like all the haunted items that they've collected throughout all their investigations and what have you. They kept them safe quote unquote in their house and now they're both sadly passed. But I believe their son-in-law runs it. So like you can still go see it and you can like tour it and you know whatever I think. But yeah they're both gone. It's now the son-in-law. That's it. I guess I was asking who are them now like is there anyone else who does what they do now? Oh not to my knowledge. No. I mean I don't know maybe. I hope to never know because I don't want to have to use it. Oh yeah. Huh. Yeah I don't know. That's that's all I have. What's your good thing? Let's get out of the spooky land. My good thing is that we are having a little Halloween party. Yeah. A little gathering. Not a say ounce. No. A gathering and it won't be spooky but it will be fun. A fun spooky. Yeah. I guess we can say what our costumes are. What do you say? Oh yeah. I'm going to be cash cow. And I am holy cow. And I'm very excited. I'm sure photos will be on my Instagram. So if you want to see that head over there. My good thing is the Italian wedding soup we made tonight. Say las. We made really good soup. And it's just soup. It's soup season baby. You know. Oh it's but it's always soup season. It's not always soup season. It's. Ooh I disagree. You love. To give me a soup and a baguette. You love a soup. I'm living. That's true. You love a soup. You live for soup. And I love that for you. But I love that it's like getting chilly and I can have a nice warm soup to warm my soul. And we did that tonight and we made it really good except for the meatballs which made us a lot. But we're a little freezer parents. Yeah. It's okay. But everything else was really good and I love soap. I'm sorry I'll see myself out. I love soap. I love soap. It's been a long week guys. Anyway. I hope you had a wonderful Halloween or we'll have a wonderful Halloween. Stay safe. Dress up. Eat some candy. Do it. Anyways. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you would like to look at all the pictures we post of all the stories we talk about check us out on Instagram at not today underscore podcast. If you would like to check out a bonus episode or many other bonus episodes head over to patreon at patreon.com/nautodaypodcast. If you or anyone you know has a story of survival or something spooky or something crazy that's happened to you and you want to send it to us and possibly hear it on an upcoming list or episode send it to know today podcast at gmail.com. We have a TikTok that is not today podcast and a Twitter that is not today podcast for the T on the end of podcast is a three. Because that makes sense. And just keep breathing. Yeah. Yeah. [Music] [Music] [Music] When you manage procurement for multiple facilities every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system they matter even more. Granger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. 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