Episode 149: The Reality of a Miscarriage with Helen Leland + Carter Foxworth

[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome back to "Are You Three Always Sarah Frick." Today, I'm sitting down with two of my friends, Carter, who you guys know very well, and Helen Leeland, who we've had on the podcast twice or once. Twice. This is my third time. I know. I know. You're like old hat here. I'm welcome. I was listening to another podcast the other day this woman's doing. And she had her best friend on there 27 times. And finally, her best friend was like, can we just-- can I co-host with you? So I asked Helen and Carter to come on the podcast today. We were just to talk about-- they both recently had a miscarriage back-to-back. And before we started the show, they also both had their first children within months of each other, too, because how old-- Two weeks. --weeks. How old's Lane? She's two, October 4th. And Foxy's two, November 14th. OK. So they're like-- They're in the same class together. And she's playing Rain up to Foxy again. I forgot to text you. So cute. She really cute. She runs up to Foxy now. Oh, he's adorable. Yeah. He's like a little man. Yeah, they're going to get married. So part of the reason why I asked these ladies to come on is because I think it's so common. And as most of my listeners know, I've had miscarriages as well. And especially when you're trying or wanting something, I know you both each have two different stories. But I'll let you guys tell your stories, obviously. But this kind of stuff happens. And you don't know how you're going to feel until it happens like you hear about it. But then when it happens, it's like, holy shit. This just happened to me. So Helen, why don't you start. Tell us. You got pregnant. But were you trying or anything like that? That's so funny. No. I was not. I was dating Alan. We met on hinge. This was-- when she got pregnant with Lane, you can start there, though. Oh, we're talking about-- Let's start the beginning. Yeah. Yeah, we'll start with that. Motherhood all happened so quick. So I was dating my husband on hinge because I did not even bother Charleston hinge was not an option. So went to Atlanta hinge. I treated it like I was recruiting a CEO for my company. I took hinge so seriously. I mean, if anyone needs hinge help, I'll help you. And found the chosen one. And we started dating for-- and the four months and I got pregnant. And again, I just didn't understand how serious a baby was. And I had no idea how magical it really is to actually get pregnant and have a healthy baby. I thought it was so just common and easy. I had no idea how many people struggled with it at all. And I didn't understand it really until recently. Because most people don't talk about their fertility issues. That's why I think you being open about it Carter is so helpful. And just everything that we've been through hopefully will help people today. But so this time, I was fully planning on getting pregnant in September of 2025. And that I just wanted the spacing to be that far part because I have some business things I want to do. I want to be one-on-one with Lane. I didn't have any problem getting pregnant the first time so I wasn't worried about it. And then next thing you know, it was at Starbucks because my internet was broken because we live in Old Village and it never works. And I grabbed a pregnancy test from my bathroom because I was like, I haven't had my period in a couple weeks. Let me check this out. And just while I was on my team's Zoom, I took a pregnancy test. I turned my camera off and threw hell at that course. I thought my whole team was watching. But I obviously didn't tell anyone because our CEO was talking. And I took a pregnancy test and I was pregnant. And then I checked my husband's location. He was next door at Mazzo. And after the team called, I went over there. And I wrapped it. Like a true stalker. I wrapped it in a toilet paper. And I gave it to him. And I was so excited. I was crying. I was so happy to be pregnant. And then at that point, everything makes sense. And then you figure everything out in your mind that you were worried about. And it all makes sense. You have this perfect plan to have this child. And everything's going to be great. I was going on the works to treat. I'd taken the baby with me to-- taken the baby with me. The baby was with me when I was in London, when I was in California, when I was in Italy, now Mexico. And that-- We drank a lot at that concert. Yeah. Yeah, the concert was live music. Baby had been with me so much. And that made me even more attached to this baby. So that was how I got pregnant. And then do you want me to wait for her to tell her pregnancy story? No, you can go ahead. What part do you want me to tell? So we were in Mexico. Yeah, but I was 11 weeks. I don't realize where that far. Yeah. OK. And I hadn't heard the heartbeat. I'd seen the heartbeat. And I'd taken the gender reveal test because I did one of those 24 hour tests, which, by the way, you can take. And they're at 99.6% accurate. So it was a baby girl. And I'm so excited. That's what I wanted. And they were going to share a room because I have a two-year-old daughter. They were going to share a room. Alan was really excited. He always knew who's going to be a girl dad of three or four girls. We don't know. And I was telling everyone that I was pregnant when I was at the retreat because I was not drinking, really. And I've just always been an open book about everything. 11 weeks. I mean, that's-- Yeah, you're comfortable. Yeah. Honestly, even if I had been seven or six weeks, I want to tell people because it did not cross my mind that something could go wrong with my baby, because I had such a good first pregnancy. Just in-- and even like you sharing your stories about the miscarriages and what happened with Grace, that broke my heart. But I couldn't feel the pain because I hadn't been there. But it made me sad because you were sad. But I just didn't understand what it was like. And then, as we were on the retreats, and after everyone had done their-- we had done the share circle where so many people had talked about miscarriages or relationships with their family that were tough or just traumatic things that they had been through, like suicidal thoughts. Grace is breaking the ground for people to be open about traumas that they've been through. So I felt immediately more comfortable with everyone on the retreat. So in the next day, I started spotting. And I remember asking Susie and some of the other moms there did you guys bleed with your first pregnancy, or with your pregnancies? Like, is it normal? I'm bleeding a little bit. I'm spotting. And I spotted with the lane. So I thought it was normal. And then, progressively, got worse throughout the day. And during this second share circle, that Thursday night, and Carter, you had left-- Yeah. --at the closing circle, like the last night with everyone. Yeah, the closing circle, where people, again, if you're more comfortable, you want to share about something that you've been through just because sharing is how you heal. Everyone had gone. And then, finally, I was just like, guys, I don't. I think I'm having a miscarriage. Like, I don't know what's going on. And everyone rushed over. Like, you rushed over. And I kind of explained the bleeding. And when I googled it, all signs pointed to a miscarriage, but I wasn't soaking through a pad. So, and there was a plot twist. There was a midwife of like 20 years on the trip. So that made me feel so much more comfortable. And hearing how common miscarriages were made me feel comfortable that I wasn't having a miscarriage. Because I thought it was the hematoma, because the bleeding wasn't that severe. And then that night, laying in bed with Karina, Karina, who is my right-hand girl and everything, I started bleeding more and like sending the pictures to the midwife. She was so sweet and so helpful. And she just, you know, would confirm that it didn't look like it was a miscarriage quite yet. And then, all of a sudden, like, very quickly progressed into 20 minutes of super intense cramping. Like it felt like labor pain. And then-- Mind you, Helen's on the works retreat. With no-- I mean, you have Karina, but it's different. Yeah, I didn't have a husband. Mexico, I'm like, I don't know how you-- I mean, not they had a choice, but-- I think because honestly, I was in denial that I was having a miscarriage. And then my water broke, basically. Like, I felt a rush of water and I felt something-- what pass? In Karina-- And like, I-- This was in Mexico. [LAUGHS] In the beautiful, like, bedroom that we were in, and I sprinted to the bathroom with my legs tight, because there was water. And we dug through my pads, like, we dug through everything. And there was no nothing. So then I'm still in denial, because I would think, you know, at 11 weeks, I would see something. So I thought it was human trauma. And I had not soaked a pad yet. Yep. So then I'm OK. I'm in good spirits. Like, the cramping was still pretty bad the next day. But then we go home. I was so frustrated, because I had called my OBGYNs office, and the front desk was not helpful. They were honestly, like, we can't get you in until Tuesday. I'm like, no, I need to go in immediately Monday. And anyway, that was frustrating. I just felt like-- I loved my doctor. But I think the front desk sometimes at these places becomes so immune to the emotion of a miscarriage. Because it is so garlic. Yeah, I've talked about that so much. It's like, it's so transactional. It's not like there's no heart and medical care anymore. Right. But like, if you're literally having a miscarriage, or you literally are dying to get into, have an ultrasound, because you've had a million miscarriages. They're like, nah, sorry. Yeah, they're like, hang up. Yeah, I mean, I clearly showed up. Yeah, go to the ERs with thousands of dollars. Beleding down my legs. And I was like, I need to take me back. Because I don't think anyone in this lobby wants to see me. And it was with Whalen. It's fine. But that was the one I was telling you about when I had the heat. With cash in your hand. Well, I was like, if you don't take me in the back, I'm going to sit here and probably bleed out. I just went up there. I was just like, I'm not doing this. And I think, like, I'm sorry to-- and dropped you, but I think that's such a valid point because it's not transactional. These are people's lives. And I mean, of course, I'm sure you have to deal with people every day that you don't want to deal with, but every job, it is hard. It's human. Yeah. It's like a good reminder, even in all of our jobs. I mean, just to slow down a second. And you're talking to real people. And I just hate that I had to get to that point where you're like, no one's telling me no nasty to get in. And luckily, all three of us-- because we run our own businesses, we know how to manage things. Most people don't. Most people are just going to sit there and not fight for themselves. And not stand up. You have to have the keep yourself fit. Right. And we don't know how to do that. Anyway, so-- You get in. No. So I'm back. We come back on Friday. And then all weekend, I'm just laying in bed, taking it slow, because I'm fully 100% god of hematoma, and didn't have a miscarriage. And then Sunday, all cramping had gone. I went to the bathroom, and I was just wiping as normal. I was still bleeding, but I wasn't soaking any pads by any means. And I just went to the bathroom, and it was like in my hands. It was like-- when it was big. And it was like unmistakable, like what it was. And I just remember still being in denial, like, no, this is an miscarriage. Like, can't have a miscarried and soak through a pad. Like, this can't happen to me. And then when I sent the picture to Rebecca, and then, honestly, to Mary Stewart, for her to show her dad, because there are dads in OB/GYN, or what do you call it, an OB/GYN? I don't even know. Yeah, OB/GYN. And he called me, and he was like, yeah. He was very, not a fact, but very sweet. It's a miscarriage. Save that to put it in the fridge and send it off to testing. And then it's all of a sudden it just becomes so real. And I thought a miscarriage was like fat burn. I thought when you burn fat, you breathe it out. I thought a miscarriage just dissolved. I didn't think you would ever see anything. I thought you'd peed it out or bled it out through your menstrual cycle. I didn't know. Because no one talks about it. And then I texted-- there was probably 40 people who had known that I was pregnant at that time, and I texted everyone. And just the way that my friends and family and the Charleston community poured into me was like nothing I've ever experienced before ever in my entire life. It was so awesome. And that's what healed me. It was like sharing it with them and seeing how they responded. But when Carter, when you had yours, I didn't know it until the after, it was too late. But even in hindsight, I don't think I would have been a good support system because I just didn't-- I thought you peed it out. I didn't even know what a dean see was. I had to look it up. Yeah. People just don't know. Did they-- if you don't mind, did you ship it off? But I haven't heard anything back yet. Yeah. But you got your blood work back or something, right? I got my blood work done for thyroid stuff. For thyroid? Yeah. Yes. I have high TSH or low T-something. No, yeah, my TSH is high. Which can be your cause for a miscarriage if you Google it. Anything can be a cause for a miscarriage. So I'm trying to lower that. Which is good for you because you having something that you can focus on to fix it is like-- It's like, we were telling-- Helen and I were talking offline about if it's like, is it more beneficial-- I mean, kind of like, with the unexplained infertility with me, would it be better for them to just be like, oh, your tubes are closed? Or, you know, it's like more-- Just give me more answer. Yeah. So at least you have that now. And honestly, when it first happened, one of the first things that I thought about was-- because you try to rationalize. That's like part of the stages of grief. You try to rationalize why it happened. And one of the things that first came to me was there's something that I've been planning to do for business, and it would launch in the next four or five months. And I had been planning on doing it before I found out that I was pregnant. And like, if I was to get pregnant, I would have to push it back six, eight months. And so, of course, that's the first thing that comes to mind. So it's like, is this a sign that I am supposed to move forward with that business idea right now? I don't know. And then, you know, you just try to rationalize. Like, I had a ski trip booked in February. Like, maybe I'm supposed to go skiing now. You know, just shit like that. I remember that. And I had all my failed IVFs. You're the spy world. Miss Carragels. I'd be like, OK, well, now I can do this, this, and this. Yeah. And it's just like-- I remember that so clearly. But what was so beautiful was that I was so glad to be in Mexico with women. I love my husband. I'm a hinge husband. I love him so much. But men just aren't-- what's he going to do? He's going to hold my hand and tell me it's going to be OK. Like, being around women, I couldn't have asked for it. A lot of people-- you know, like you said, like, you were in Mexico. Had to do that. I would have rather have been around 40 women, who, like, genuinely cared about me. They all have good hearts than have been alone in, like, with Google, because I would have been with Google. The devil. Yeah. But it's interesting. And I think I can say this. And I think Carter would agree, like, that would be your worst nightmare. Yeah. Yeah, worst nightmare. She would be on a plane on her way home. But Carter's a lot more private, you know, and that's like what works-- that's what works for her. Yeah. So with that, go ahead and share your story, Carter. OK, y'all. Let's talk about my absolute favorite store in Charleston. And I actually truly mean this. It is literally like, I'll just drive past it on my way home, and I'm like, I have to go in and see what they have. Sell it on. Sell it on, sell it on, sell it on. I love you. They just celebrated 30 years in business, and we know why. I love Sell it on so much, because it has, like, given my family. The couches that they lay on, the beautiful tables that we've had forever from Wayland's first birthday to the twins' first birthday to many Christmas's Thanksgiving's, dinner parties, family meals. Like, I just-- I love a table. I love connection. And, like, what better way to celebrate than, like, in your own home? Sell it on is sailing into their new decade with lots of exciting plans. Including several new series, more big events, artist collaborations, and an expansion they can't wait to share more of very, very soon. Their buyers travel to workshops and trade shows from Bali to Brazil, forging partnerships with some of the world's best craftsmen. Containers of handmade furniture, mirrors, art, and curiosities they have developed and direct source to rather their North Charleston warehouse location weekly. To learn more about all things Sell it on, follow them on Instagram at Sell it on Home. C-E-L-A-D-O-N-Home. And if you are local, be sure to visit their flagship store and Mount Pleasant, open seven days a week. And their shoppable warehouse at the Navy Yard in North Charleston. Their team and customer service experience are as amazing as their commitment to community and cool stuff. Visit Sell it on Home.com for details on hours and links to directions and more information. OK, so I had been trying to-- or have been still at trying to get pregnant since last-- Foxy will be two in November. I think I started trying last April of 2023. Three, two, four. No, 23 last year. Last year. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, it's going to take a long time. Then I'll probably get pregnant by November. And then there'll be two years apart and blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I didn't get pregnant by November. I got pregnant. OK, we went to the Bahamas for my birthday. I hadn't gotten my period, but I didn't really think anything of that because my period's very irregular and whatever. It's whatever. But I had spotting. And so I texted. I didn't text-- I didn't text-- no, I didn't tell anyone actually this time about it. I didn't tell anyone about the spotting because I was like, I really have a good feeling about this. Because I thought it was implantation bleeding, which it was. So I had a little bit-- if you don't know what that is-- seven to 10 days after ovulation. If you have light bleeding, it could be implantation. So you're getting pregnant. And I just felt-- I was like, I think this is it. And then we went to the Bahamas for my birthday. I didn't think about it again. I didn't have any more bleeding. So it either happens like that. And I'm like, oh, this is the time. And I text my acupuncturist or like Sarah. I have implantation bleeding. And then my period comes. So this time I was like, I'm just not going to text anybody. And my period never came. And then I kind of forgot about it because I wasn't like hyperfixated on it because I was out of town. But I was feeling-- so when I-- after I ovulate, I take progesterone. I've been doing that every cycle for over a year. And so it makes me really, really bloated. But on this Bahamas trip, I was like-- I was really bloated. I don't know. I just-- my body felt different. I knew something was up. So when I got home, I took a pregnancy test one Sunday before I was going to take a kelly's spend class. And then her class, I didn't get in her class. And I was so happy because I wanted to go home in Telfoxy. So I went home. I told Foxy, we went to the beach. We had a great day. It was like, I was pregnant finally, finally, finally. And then-- OK, also another point on this is this was my last time that I was like allowed to take plumage was that cycle. So you tell people what that is for their health? Yes. So with all of my unexplained infertility, I basically just throw things at the wall. And one of the things I've tried, I do ovulate on my own. But since I want to super ovulate, I take plumage, which makes you ovulate if you don't ovulate. So I've taken that. You can only do it six times. I've done it now, six times. On my seventh now, well, it's my last time. I know. See, you have to advocate for yourself. I like, I ask for plumage. And my doctor's a minute. They just don't have time for everyone. So I asked for that. So I took that. And then the progesterone, my levels are fine, but I just want extra because it can make the baby stick. So I take the prexasetest and then I go get my blood work done the next day because I want to see if I'm really pregnant, and then I want to get my blood work done in another 24 hours to see if the levels are rising. So your HCG level, and someone who just gets pregnant doesn't even know any of this exists, or like what's going on with their body? But your HCG is the hormone that rises when you're pregnant. So the human growth hormone? Yes. If it's continuing to rise, you're continuing to be pregnant, and if it drops, then you're not pregnant. So mine, you wanted to double in 24 hours. So I get the first reading of whatever blood work done, the first number. And it is really high off the charts. And I was like, oh god, well, when you do take clomage, you do risk having multiples. But I'm OK with the risk at this point. I'll take anything. And so the level's really high. And I'm like, oh, it's probably twins or something, whatever. And then I go get my level done the next day because you have to do it 24 hours later. And the number didn't double. And I was like, oh god, this is weird. Why didn't the number double? And my acupuncturist Audrey is like, yeah, that is a little weird. And I was feeling weird about it. But my doctor, who I love, was like, no, it's fine. It's fine. We're going to get in and look at it. It's not a big deal. So I go to the doctor for them to look at it. I had to wait like two weeks. So now I'm only seven weeks pregnant. But another thing, whatever, I'll get to that. So I go to the doctor, and they do an ultrasound. And there is like a sac. And they can see that I ovulated from both sides. So you know, you're two ovaries. Like you really only ovulate from one. But since I'm a psycho and supercharging it, it actually ovulated from both, which is very weird. And like, doesn't really happen that often. According to my doctor, I never really knew about this. And there were three follicles that like took, or whatever, for lack of better, for I don't have like the correct terminology. And then in the sac, there was only one. So they could see that like two vanishing babies. So it could have been triplets. But there was two that were gone. And I was like, oh, thank God. That's why the number didn't do that. Like, I don't think I can handle triplets. We're good with one. And she was like, OK, but I want you to come back in one week. So I was like, I didn't think I was pregnant. I was fully pregnant. I was like, I'm going to have this baby. We're not living at our house right now, because we're renovating it. We're living with my dad at his house. And I'm like, I'm going to have this baby with my dad. It's going to be hard and weird, but it's going to be fine. I'm going to get through the first month postpartum and be able to move home one month postpartum. I'd wrap my head around it. I was having the baby in April 20th was my due date. And I was like, I'm going to miss the masters this year. But you know, you work everything up in your head. I was so excited. And so then I go back to the doctor on the following week. And I just like, I was so nervous. Foxy was coming, but he didn't come. I got there a little early, of course. And then they ended up being able to take me back, which never happens if you know at the OBGYN. But I had texted Foxy being like, don't come in yet. Wait till we go back because there's three people I know in here. And I don't want to see them or to start talking about being pregnant because I just you never know. I did not tell anyone on, like, Helen. I told Sarah and my parents, I did tell my parents. And so I didn't tell anybody else though, not my sister, not no one. And so I went back and Foxy was still in the car. And I was like, just don't come in because all these people are here. I'll go back by myself. You can walk through the back door when we go-- I mean, it's like living in Charleston. You can't even go to the freaking OBGYN with all of them. And so I go in with the lady. And she was doing the ultrasound. And she's like, I could see there's nothing on the screen, but I was like, I didn't want to believe it. And then she can't really say anything because you have to talk to your doctor about all of this instead of the-- what's it called, an ultrasound deck? And so I went back and I waited to go see my doctor, and I just knew. And she was like, there's no baby anymore. And I was just like, I don't know what to do. And she's like, you can start doing-- there's really like, there's two options. You can start doing IVF or you cannot. And I was like, after we figure out what to do with the baby, because I was already focused. I didn't realize I had to get this baby out of me. I was like, OK, how do I get pregnant again? She was like, but next, you have to-- we have to decide if you want to let the baby pass. Or if you want to have a DNC, which is where you have this surgical procedure to remove the baby, which you can still do in the state of South Carolina because it was a blighted-- what is it? Blighted ovum. Blighted ovum. And the baby have a heartbeat. Right. So if the baby doesn't have a heartbeat, then-- you can get rid of the baby with a medical procedure. And I was like, well, what's the difference? And she was like, you'll either have to wait two weeks. And-- or you can just go tomorrow. I'll call them. And you can get it done. And I was like-- and she was like, well, it is more expensive to get the DNC. And I was like, how much is it? She was like, it's probably going to be like $3,500 to $5,000, depending on your insurance. And I was like, well, I don't want to pay that up. Just wait. And then I went home. And I was like, I kept something, it feels wrong in my god. I can't just sit here and wait. And so I did end up having the DNC. And I went in the next morning. And I haven't really talked about this at all. So I'm like, I don't know. I didn't think I'd be so sad. But here we are. Are you for real? It's OK to be sad. And so I was sad. And so I texted my doctor. And I was like, I do want to get the procedure. I don't care what you call. I want to get the procedure. I want this to be done. And she was like, OK, it's 5 o'clock. But I'm going to be able to get you in tomorrow when she got me in. And so there is good care. And so I went-- I got up that morning. I got-- I showered. I got ready. I tried to put on my best go, have an abortion look. And of course you did cardio. And I went. And when I got into the hospital at East Cooper, I get into the room. And the anesthesiologist comes. And it's the same person that did the epidural for my C-section. Or is that even what they do for a C-section? I don't know. I don't remember. But-- Oh, yeah. --and it was the same guy. And he had like witness when I went through with the birth. And then he was there when I had to do the C-section. And he was like, he looked at me and he was like, it's going to be OK. Promise. And I-- I mean, I love that man. I'm-- Foxy knows him. Well, Foxy knew him. They're like chatting as I'm like getting cut open, having a C-section. But Foxy knew him, of course. And like his son or something. But it was like it made me feel so much less alone. And that's like why I knew Helen and I are doing this right now. And I'm going to try to stop crying so I can talk. So anyways, they do the DNC. I go home. The baby's out. I can start fresh. But I-- I've never felt so sad. Like, I don't really get-- I don't get sad. Like, I'm not a sad person. I try to live in the positive. And I was really, really sad. So I basically did nothing for a few days. And then I was like, OK, I have to pick back up. You can't just like soak in the sadness. And I told some people, and what I told you, like I told a few friends and whatever. And I've told some of my classes. And people know. But I'm not like openly shouting it because I do feel like when you talk about it, everyone diminishes it. They're like, how many weeks for you? Which to me, doesn't matter. Because it took me 16 months to get pregnant. So like, you know, that's helped me. But-- That's really valid because-- I mean, even I need you to hear that. That's so valid. Because everyone says, how many weeks for you? Well, there wasn't a herbie with there wasn't this. But I'm like, it literally took me 16 months-- About 100%. And say you're sorry. Thousands of dollars of acupuncture and work to get the-- But that is like a very common miscarriage thing. And I just feel like everyone's like, well, I've had five. Well, I've had 10. Well, I've had three. Well, it's like, that's awesome. I mean, whatever. Great. I'm glad that we're connected on that. And people have. And I have said that to people prior. I'm like, will you text my friend Sarah if you want? She's had a million. You know? But I do think that people don't realize-- I mean, for me, it's like all the effort just to get there. Yeah. It's like there was a baby alive in you. It had a heartbeat. Yeah. And that was your heartbeat. Well, no heartbeat for me. But that's what I'm saying. Still, it just-- it's just like the freaking process to even get the baby. And there I'm like, there's no way this baby is my baby. There's no way. But also, like, you guys both touched on this. And I remember this more after grace, because I never let myself get attached to a baby after grace until they were in my arms. But-- and I think anyone in Lindsay's has children as well, our producer. But like, you start planning. And you have to-- and you mourn those, too. Like, you know, it's like, OK, when you had-- before I had wailin, I didn't have-- after we lost grace, obviously, I didn't have any other kids. But you're like, they're going to share a room. And you know, and Carter's like, OK, I'm going to have boxy will be this age. And we have this planned. And it's like-- I just remember being like all those plans are just like, they're gone. - Yeah. - And it's like a different type of sadness. I feel like once you already have children and then you have a miscarriage because, you know, before you have, you just don't know the joy of having a kid before you have your own. - Right. And then once you find out you're pregnant again, like you know the beauty that comes with having a child and then just to have it just gone overnight. It's so sad. - Yeah. It's, I mean, it is like so common and then not a lot of people talk about it and. - It's so common. - Yeah, I mean, I, it is. Like, I guess that maybe makes it a little bit better, but now I'm like. - Doesn't make the pain easier. - Right, doesn't make the pain easier. - Well, then like moving forward, and I can only see myself. - Exactly, PTSD. - Fuck, like every time I, I mean, you know, because my experience is different than y'all's, like losing grace and then not having a baby, like trying to get pregnant for so long was so just devastating and hard. But then once I had wailin, even though I had, I only had miscarriages after wailin. Well, I had a grace lost her in infancy and then I had an abortion and then I had wailin. But I was so happy to focus on him, you know? But that's just, like everyone's experienced so different, like everyone's perspective is so different, you know? - Right, right. - I think, yes, it makes you stronger once you go through it and you heal, but like it doesn't take the pain in the moment. It doesn't make it any easier. - Yeah. And it is hard for people to find out what to say. Like, I didn't know what to say until I had one. - Yeah, there's, I know there's like nothing you can say. There's nothing you can do. There's nothing, you know, it's like one of those things. Like when you lost grace, there's nothing anybody could say or do to make you feel better. - Yeah. - I mean, no, like amount of cast roles could help the pain. - No, you don't have to be. - You don't have to be. - But I want the cast role. I think it's like the un, like to me, it's like the unknown. I'm like, okay, so now I've had two cycles where I've tried to get pregnant since because I got my period back. Thank God you probably haven't yet. Have you? No. - I don't think so. - No, you will know. - I love you. - Okay, no, no, no. - This bleeding is going on for a long time. Is it all semi-period? - No, it takes like, you have to build the lining back up. - I'm actually talking to you about your vagina after this. - I just tried to do how many holes you have, right? - Two, three, three. - It's okay. - We're gonna do this out. - Oh my God. - I don't know, anything is no one can talk about it. - I know, that's why we're fucking talking about it. - I don't know what a DNC is like if you're okay to talk about it. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, they put you under, but I went in that I got the anesthesia and then I go into the, they wheel you in the operating room just like when I had a, or no, they wheel you in before you get the anesthesia. Just like, and I was taken back to like having a C-section. I was like, oh my God, I'm not gonna be able to do that again. It's like, you know, sterile, bright, white lights and they're all just chatting away, chatting away, having their day and they just go in and then maybe out of you. - Yeah, I mean, it's not like, it's different than like, you're, you know, how far along you were, but yeah, just, it removes like everything, so no, how the doctor described it, like no little piece of that is still gonna be in there prohibiting you from getting your period sooner. Like, I wanted it to be out and moved on. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - The reason you're still bleeding, like, things can still be coming out. - Yeah, they clean and scrape. - It's finally stopped like three days ago. - Yeah. - And then, and then I went home and like laid on, I mean, no, it's fine. And then I picked Foxy at the school, you know? - Were you emotionally okay? - After DNC? - No. - No. And then I went to teach class two days later, and I was like, I don't have anything to give these people, 'cause I don't even have, like, you know, you're just like, - You were just so broken after work. It's like, I don't think I've ever felt so broken in my entire life. - Yeah. It's, I mean. - And helpless. - I think if you could like, look into, I try to hold out hope because everything always makes sense, obviously, when you're through the other side of it. - Two years later. - But I'm like, can you just fast forward? Like, if I could just like know when I would get pregnant, I think I would have been able to move past it a little more. - Yeah. - And that's the other thing that I don't really understand is as so many people go through fertility issues and like, I don't know the pain or the struggle of what you feel every month when your cycle comes. Like, when you see your cycle, all you're wishing for is just to not see anything. - Right. But, there's strong. - What do you do? - You are a strong, Carter. - And I was at a MNTB last, what day was that Friday? - I was like, I'm not coming to work today, anybody. It's just like exhausting. - And then it's probably, do you like people asking you about people are probably asking you all the time? - Yeah, I don't think so. And I also, I think I was actually gonna touch on that, so I'm glad you said that. Like, don't ask her. (laughing) - Yeah. - Carter does not wanna talk about this before she's teach you a spin class. - Right. - And I think that like, we're also different, everyone's different. Like, you don't need to be someone's spokesperson. And like, for it, you know, and if somebody wants to reach out to you privately, like, that's maybe different. But like, not everybody handles things the same way, you know? - No. - They just don't. - I mean, I'm in a lot of people's prayer groups. They text me that. - We all protect our peace differently. - Yes. But I do, yeah, ask, like people asking all the time. So, from taking, I mean, I don't really know because my diet hasn't changed, but from taking progesterone and clomid for this many months, or a year now for progesterone and clomid seven months, my body is like, it's so different. Like, my clothes don't fit. That's why I had a mental breakdown the other day. And obviously, like, you wanna feel good in your body, you know? - Yeah. - Like, that's okay to wanna feel like, it's kind of annoying if your abs go away. And so, I'm teaching all the time, or I'm working out at the studio around thousands of people every day. And I'm gonna sports bra and pants because that's what we wear. And for people to be like, oh, how are you feeling? Is anything like going on, like being like you look like your pregnant? It's like, no. - No, no. - And I'll tell you, I'm ready. - And I'll tell you what I'm ready. - Yeah, I'll tell you. No, I'm gonna tell everyone next time when I'm like, full of the blood I know. - That's what I know. - I was literally like 20 weeks with Whalen. And this people were like, finally, I was like, I'm pregnant. Like everyone's like, we know. (laughing) It's obviously, it's so huge. - But yeah, your body, everything, your mind, your body, everything goes through so much. And I've done everything for infertility that now, like I was talking to this woman Danielle. She's actually, she was just on the podcast a few weeks ago, stunsy. And she was so sweet. She was like, let me just tell you some of the foods for fertility. And she's like, wow, you literally eat all this. I'm like, I literally do everything, Danielle. And she's like, but are you being positive in your mind? And so you start to wonder, like how much of the mind is really controlling what's, I mean, I know it's controlling what's going on with the body, but you start to wonder like, I don't know. - And then that's hard too. - That's the last piece. - And then you're welcome. - And I was stressing out, I was stressing out. - It's so powerful. Like when I went, so had the miscarriage and then like 10 days later, I posted about it on social media and I had, thank God for Karina. I had, like right after seeing the blank ultrasound, I, she was like, just film your emotions in your car and just send it to me, that's it. That's all you have to do. So I just set up the phone, I made Alan get out of the car, we got home and I just corded myself whatever. And then 10 days later, we posted about it once I feel like I had kind of healed. Because I told, like I said, I told people, you brought me stuff people, just, you checked on me, like people just poured into me. I had healed. And then I was like, okay, it's time for me to post about it. - And did it feel like, where you like, why am I posting about this? - No, well first of all, I didn't press post 'cause like Karina did it. I don't think I could have. Like I filmed the content, but she did the editing and like press post. But what I did do was type up the stories that morning and speaking of the mind, being a powerful thing. When I was typing up those stories while like the chronological is of like, okay, find that I'm pregnant. Here's a video of me telling my family. Here's a video of, you know, Alan and I finding out the gender, like here we are traveling the world with this baby. Like we're so excited. Here we are telling you, I think I'm losing the baby. Here we are with baby in my hands. That day, my whole body like shut down, which again, it had never done. My whole body started shaking uncontrollably. I couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't eat. I had diarrhea. My body was aching all over. It was like right after I pressed post, all that happened because it was almost like scarier to share than it was to have gone through it alone or just like with my immediate comfort circle. But again, power of the mind. That also helped me heal so quickly. Like people, just people I didn't know. Like I got two Venmos from random people to go get coffee. Like $10 like go get coffee or a milkshake or something. People were just so nice. And I was not expecting that at all. I was expecting maybe like two bouquets of flowers. (laughing) - One from Alan. - Yeah, Alan, how is Alan? - He was Alan like then. - He did. - There's nothing they could-- - Processed it more. He didn't cry. He more so just said like I'm angry. I'm angry that we're losing this baby. This is really sad. But again, no emotion. I would like some more emotion from him. But again, that is why I am a security of Mexico and not in Charleston. - Right. But yeah, what about you? How's Foxy? - He's fine. I mean, he's like, he's very stable. You know, he wants to have another baby. But he's like, he's just always like, you're having to work so hard, you're having to work so hard. - Foxy's an angel. - Yes. - He's so sweet. - It just fucking sucks. Like, but as someone who's on the other side of all of it, and I'm not trying to like, like at the Godfather. - No, exactly. - No, it's swinging. - I really do believe that, you know, whether you believe in God or the universe or whatever, I mean, God gave me the baby's that I was supposed to have. I'm 100%. Like, I look at my kids and they drive me insane and Carter knows, like, she's part of such a big part of our life. But like, can you imagine walking in my house and not all three of those kids being there? - No. - Like, they all are so unique and different and like, weird and quirky and amazing and like, they're just part of the fabric of us, you know? And that took me a long time to realize, you know? - A long. - I mean, I'm really deeply more in grace, obviously, you know, until Waylon was born. I mean, I still do, but like, I feel really complete with that and I was sharing with a woman today who's going through something. And I was like, I could never see this when I was in it, but like, I would not be the mom I am, had I not lost grace, 'cause I was, I think I was really, really selfish. And I was always like doing the most and kind of was like, you know, thought that, you know, played a little bit like, victim mentality, which actually drives me crazy. - Oh, oh. - And now I know, like, I just, I lived a very charm privileged life. And like, that was like the crazy, like, even after losing my mom, like, that was the craziest thing that's ever happened to me, the worst thing, you know, up to this point of my life. And like, I just, I think I'm just a better mom. Like, I just am. Like, I mean, I'm not, I don't do all the right things by any means, but like, my kid, like, I let my kids be who they are. They're part of our life. Like, I, they're all happy, well-adjusted kids. And I don't know if I would have been like that. But I think it also gave me the courage to do the work that we do now, too. - Yeah, totally. I would say I'm a totally different person, yeah, after that. - Yeah, and everything makes sense, like, long-term. And it's all, it's all, like, I mean, I talk to people all the time, reach out to me that are having infertility issues. And I'm like, I'm not really, someone that can speak to you about it anymore right now, but maybe later, but it's like, I do, like, I have a friend who had a miscarriage two weeks ago. And she had worked really hard for that baby. And I'm like, well, that's not your baby, but you know, all the things that you tell other people that you wanna hear, but you need to hear yourself. But it is true, obviously, that wasn't your baby. And it, and it wasn't my baby. And everything is going to make perfect sense, but it's exhausting. - It is. I did have, I don't know if you saw what I put in my story, I did have, like, a cool little vegetation experience a couple days ago. I haven't seen it. - Okay, I'll tell you. This was also cool. So first thing, when I shared the miscarriage thing, thousands of DMs of people, I'm sure sharing their miscarriage stories. And like, a lot of people sharing it for the first time. Like you saying, you know, you hadn't really shared, a lot of people just don't share. But this was cool. It was last Tuesday, I was asleep. I had not taken CBD this night. And the normally I take CBD, except for one in pregnant. But I had not taken CBD this night. And I was woken up by an unmaskable feeling of like someone entering my body, like from my calves. And then my whole body was, it just, it was like tingling, but it was lifted. Like, and I was awake. I was asleep, but I was awake. And I remember being like, am I awake? I'm fucking awake. And it came in me and there was like the voice of this little girl. And I couldn't hear her. I mean, I couldn't see her, but I could hear her. And we were talking and I was like, wait, why can't I see you? When can I see you? And she was like, when all the other kids go to sleep. And then we started talking some more. And I don't remember what it was about. But I remember being like, I have to remember every single bit of this conversation. And then it came to a point where we just, both of them, it was time to go. So I asked if I could have a hug. And I felt that hug wrapped around me. Like I literally felt it. It was not unmistakable. And then we both like said goodbye at the same time. And I was like, am I going to see you again? And she said yes. And then I felt just as clearly as I felt her coming and I felt her leave. And I woke up and wrote it all down. But I was awake. And then I shared that on my story. Hundreds of messages of people having the same thing. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, and a lot of times, I mean, it could be, they call it visitation experiences or this some sort of hypnotic, it can't even pronounce it. But it's like the state between being asleep and awake and like your body's, or your subconscious mind is trying to process grief or it is a visitation experience from a spirit you just don't know. But it brought me so much happiness and closure. I can't even see it. Yeah, yeah. No, I believe in that kind of stuff too. My mom came to me when I was trying after re-loss grace and told me I was going to have a little boy and his name was going to be John. And Wailen is John. John Wailen is his name. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. And I wrote about it like a year before I had him. So-- I know. And then I was at home team this weekend. And I saw Allison Williamson. And she was there with eight of her girlfriends. And I was waiting for Alan to come. So I sat with them. And they obviously were asking me about the miscarriage. And then I told them what the story that I just told you and every single one of them had a story that they shared of the same sort of visitation experience. And it was the coolest thing. That's when I was like, damn, I'm going to share this with everybody. Yeah. Because I thought it was crazy. Yeah, you're not. No. We get-- so we do this work all the time. You know, sharing our stories and connecting with people. And then I forget that people don't realize how powerful it is. You're like, wow, all these people reached out to me. I feel like we're always in this work. But it is true, despite how different our experiences are, you don't even know anything about your body or how to get pregnant, except that you just get pregnant fast. But we both had a similar situation while very different. And now we're connected on that. We've got to go make more babies together. Exactly. We're working on it. I'm not actively not working on it. I mean, I'm actively having sex, but I'm not working on it. Well, our hour is up, but I want to thank you guys both so much. I really, really appreciate it. I know it's a lot-- it's vulnerable to put yourself out there, for sure. But you're helping a lot of people. It's easier with you guys. You were there when I miscarried. Yeah. That was so proud of you. I'm brave. That was so brave. Yeah, it was so brave. Anyway, I think we can all relate to this on some level. So please share this with your friends. Rate us, review us. You have any questions. You can always reach out to me on Instagram at Sarah Livs Yoga. And we'll chat soon. Bye. [MUSIC PLAYING]