Episode 14 - Sam on the LGBTQIA+ Experience

(upbeat music) Welcome back to Project Outsiders. If you are returning, thank you so much for your support and joining us along on our journey to improving the foster care system. For those who are new, welcome to the Foster Care Experience podcast. We are a youth led social organization that is trying to bridge the gap between youth and care with decision makers. We are all youth from care who have been pushed by our experiences to ensure we see changes to a disconnected system. Welcome to the last episode, the season finale of the Foster Care Experience podcast. (audience applauding) Yay! (laughs) We have completed a total of 14 episodes now, which has been amazing. And this journey has just been incredible, incredibly educational and enlightening. And I'm so incredibly happy if you've listened to every single one of the youth stories. You are really making a difference in our lives just by listening. For those who are new here, we are a youth led social organization that is trying to bridge the gap between youth and care with decision makers. We are all kids from care who have been pushed by our experiences to ensure that we see changes to a disconnected system. We're incredibly passionate and we want to create paths and new opportunities for other youth in care. And so, for our last episode, I am so excited for this conversation. You don't understand. To officially end off this season, I have with me a person who I have known for a very long time. In fact, we both live in the same group home for almost a year. - Yeah, I don't like that. - And so we go way back and we both have shared a lot of crazy experiences that we didn't even fully understand and realize the extent of how crazy it was until probably just now. And so who is this person? He is Samuel. - Hi, how's it going? - In today's episode, we have Samuel Esherbeckum and he has been a good friend of mine for a very long time. He's a very passionate advocate who has done public speaking work in the past with 360 kids. He wants to venture into politics to be able to influence policies for the betterment of vulnerable youth in Ontario. And he's an incredibly bubbly, kind-hearted, amazing human being that I have the pleasure to know and had the pleasure to see grow just a little bit. And so I'm very curious to know a lot more about you, about what your life has looked like after you have left the group home. He left first before me. I want to start off with this. I know that we lived together for a little bit and we both went through a lot. And I still remember a lot of your story when we used to sit down and we pretty much have done this with a lot of other kids who come in and out of the group homes. It's one of the first questions, what's your story? What happened to you? Why are you here? That's the kind of thing, you know? Yeah, I would love for you to share it yourself here and tell us what had led up to you being in that same group home as me. So my family and I immigrated here from Pasadena in 2008. I come from a pretty conservative family, not a family that doesn't really understand how the LGBT+ community or identities work. Immigrated here, my family dynamic wasn't the greatest. Let's say I was experiencing a lot of physical abuse from my dad and there was also the domestic violence issues around with my mom and dad. In grade nine, I came up to one of my teachers and told her essentially, "Look, listen, things at home are pretty bad. My dad is beating me. I need some help." And I remember her asking me, "Do you realize that I have to report this to some of the society?" And I was like, "Yeah, I know." And she was like, "Are you sure you want me to do this?" I said, "Yeah, that's kind of the reason why." The point, yeah. Anyway, essentially I stayed in three different foster homes for a period of six months. One out of the three homes were good, two of the other two were absolutely awful. The first one I lived in, the foster parent, basically, my foster mom was in the greatest. I actually remember coming up to her and saying, "Hey, I think I'm France." And she was like, "You're too young to know that. Fast forward to now, I'm definitely a man." They moved me out of the first foster home due to issues with her and a foster kid. I was with Markham, and then they moved me up to Barry. I stayed there for two weeks with a very lovely lady, who I couldn't stay any longer with because I was going to spoil Markham. And she was all the way up to Barry. Then they moved me in with this couple out in Mount Pleasant, like, but f***ing nowhere. Very weird. At that time, I was having visitation visits with my family and stuff like that, because at the end of the day, people say they're playing at the end of the day to reunite the family. Living in foster homes stuff so much, I remember thinking to myself, "Is it just gonna be better if I live with my family instead of foster care?" Yeah. And things were going well with the foster parents I was living with. So I was like, "F*** it." So I'll be back with my family. Stayed with my family from age. I stayed with my family for two years before I went to two group homes. And for the two years, I was really having a lot of questions about my sexuality as well as my gender. It's just so funny, like, looking back on that because for a period of time, I thought to myself, "Oh, yeah, sure, I'm a trans dude." But like-- Yeah. Being trans, you know, there's a lot of transphobia and stuff like that that you face from society. So I was just really denial about it up until I, funny enough, was in the hospital for a suicide attempt because that's just how it'd be. The friend that helped me all night long was with me and told them, "Hey, Sam uses he/him pronouns." And the doctors were all very sweet about it. They all asked me again and again. Like, your friend told us they used these pronouns like, "Do you want us to use them?" And I was like, "Oh, it's okay. Don't worry about it." And they were all like, "No, seriously. Like, this is a very welcoming hospital. We even have one of the head paediatricians here as trans, you know, like, seriously, like, it's okay." And I had a bit of a moment where I was like, "You know what? The world isn't that bad. There's enough people in this world who are genuinely accepting and welcoming to make it worthwhile." Realized I was trans. And around this point, I was about-- Yeah, I was about, like, 15, 16. I started to, you know, be like, "Okay, right. I'm trans. What do I do from here?" So a teacher at my school was like, "Okay, well, let's get you connected with a family doctor so you can start your position." After a few appointments with that doctor, she was like, "Okay." I said, "A referral for you to Sick Kids Gender Clinic. We should hear back from them in a few weeks." And I was so excited about it. I was so stoked. I texted my friend. I was like, "Hey, finally got the referral to the gender clinic. And I said to eat the text to my mom instead of my friend." Oh. Yeah. I get--my mom sends me a text being like, "What?" And I'm like, "Nothing." Nor that. I get home. My parents are like having this huge fight. I was like, "F*ck it. You know what? I'm gonna go over to my friend's place because I don't feel safe here." Which takes turn of the process for me to get into group homes. I had this big meeting with the school and my family being like, "Hey, yeah, I'm trans. I don't feel safe living with you guys. I'm gonna--essentially giving myself up for foster care again." And that is how I actually moved in with you, Denise. Well, I think I got into the group home first. Yeah. And then a few months later, you moved in. Yes. Yes. So, yeah, that's how you and I started living together in this hellish group home. I didn't tell you. We're gonna--oh, we have stories, guys. This is why I'm so excited about this episode is because we have stories for that story. But I do really appreciate you just like kind of telling us your journey of how you kind of like came to the realization of that you were like a trans man. And I'm kind of like curious as to like what was the point that you knew for sure that, yes, this is who I am. This is my identity. Was it like in the hospital when like the nurses gave you that validation? Welcome back on it. I actually do remember where I fully didn't realize that I'm a trans dude. I had--so before I started identifying as a trans man, I identified as like genderqueer, essentially. I just used A of the pronouns and just left it at that. And I went to a LGBT+ like event for--that was hosted through York Children's Aid--not York Children's Aid. Sorry, York Region School Board. And I met a trans woman there who was, you know, an older trans woman who was like in her 40s, 50s. And she had a workshop where she was talking about her, like, you know, identity and how she came to realize I was that she is who she is. And at that moment, like again, as I was saying, I had a lot of like second thoughts about being trans just because I didn't want to like face any like transphobia or homophobia. And just seeing somebody who is way older than me, who's been identifying as trans for like a good portion of her life and she was going about her life as normal. She was working at a bank. She had even ran for mayor of Toronto in 2000 and got third. And at that point, I was like, oh my God, if this woman is able to like live her life and live it happily, I should be able to as well. That's facts. I'm so happy that like you just like prioritized yourself. That is really hard to do. Sometimes when you're kind of like, you know, you have culture behind you that just rejects it completely, you know, and that like, especially knowing how your parents received it, I personally know, well, I don't know, but I remember in the group home, like meeting your parents at some times and they were starting to be like a little bit more accepting and stuff. And so that was kind of like knowing that you took that leap. And there's something really hard for a lot of people to do. Is to accept or be willing to actually change because change is uncomfortable and change is scary. You did it. And you then, you know, feel so much more satisfied by that decision because now people are going to accept you regardless because you're here, you're present and your impact in other people's lives like mine, it's last, it stays around, right? How was like the agency supporting your transition? - Oh, at first they were pretty good about it. Like, well, obviously they have to be because they're also being educated by, you know, the parental advocates. But, you know, at first it was okay. Like they, like especially moving into the group home with you, they, like they advocated it for me. They were like, it came look like this guy is trans. You have to use these products for him. These are his needs. This is what he's looking for. Remember, first week living at the group home, the staff actually changed the bathroom so that they weren't like, okay, this is the men's bathroom and this is the woman's bathroom and made them both just straight up gender neutral. So that was good. However, like I said, at first they were great about it. They got me a binder, they supported my transition. But then as soon as I came up to them about, hey, I'd like to get top surgery, OHIP will cover a good portion of it. The only thing they're not going to cover is the procedure that's sort of afterwards to, because basically what they do is they take out your marriage lands. They take out the excess fat that's in the breast. And then, I don't remember. But there is, oh wait, that's the term, countering constantly. The government does not cover the contract. So that's about like $50,000, $200,000. So I went to data about that. I was like, okay, listen, OHIP Plus is going to cover most of this. All I need you to do is just cover the $2,000 for surgery. And they stood up to say no. They said that they don't have the funding. They don't have the funds allocated for this specific need, even though I said, well, let's say I needed this life-saving surgery, you would pay for it, right? Yeah. And I said, well, this is technically life-saving for me. I don't see why this would be not covered. I even actually ended up going to the provincial advocate about it. The advocate came back to me and said, yeah, much we can do. They just straight up said they don't have the money for it. That sucks. Do you remember how your worker was like, hey, you have this money set aside in this savings account? Yeah. That you can take it out when you're 18? Yeah. My worker was like, why don't you just use that money? I was like, the money I'm going to use for first and last? Yeah. I know. Like you're making me choose between a surgery that I need versus my house. Like, don't you see how [BLEEP] up that? Yeah. That is. There's a lot to impact there, man. I remember specifically when I had first come to the group home and I was trying to understand or meet everybody. It's just like a weird thing or a position to be in. Any time that you're entering a new house, you just feel so sad and just floaty and stuff like that. I was like, god, this is a change and it's really uncomfortable. But I have no other choice but to adapt. And so I was trying to get to know everybody. And then when they had told me about you, and obviously they have to emphasize to everybody who comes in that you are trans and stuff, I personally was feeling like, OK, I have to make sure that-- I use your correct pronouns. I was really fearful of making those kind of mistakes at the very beginning. And you were so just chill and accepting and understanding. You were like, hey, pretty much like I need to this as well. And I will completely understand as long as you're trying. And you were always just so just about it. So about LGBTQ community and advocating for others in that sphere, in that community, and just always trying to educate people around just that community and stuff. And so you were clearly just passionate and very open to teaching other people and making sure that others just do their job, right? The workers should be doing their job and making youth feel uncomfortable because of the position that we're in. Honestly, the way I look about it, how you mentioned you were really nervous about getting your pronouns right, giving me the respect that I needed, or not need. But I know that at the end of the day, like you said, this was new to me as well. I don't know what the [BLEEP] going on. You don't know what the [BLEEP] going on. We're all kind of lost in this situation. But when it comes to educating people in regards to the LGBT+ community and just the topic of transness, I understand that I'm not going to get anywhere by, I guess, arguing with the person. Obviously, I was probably the first trans person that you had met that was out. So I'm not going to hit on you for [BLEEP] up a little bit. You can't educate anybody by being hostile. Yes. Especially if somebody is transphobic. Obviously, to a certain point, I'm not going to fucking hate you. But I will at least try to be like, OK, listen. You're obviously misinformed and ignorant. I'm sure that as long as you understood and were educated in this subject matter, you'd be fine about it. And that's the case for a lot of people. I mean, they're just misinformed and don't understand how it works. God, what's the saying? Ignorance breeds hate. No, as long as you're-- we're just trying to make the effort to be respectful in the same space. Because we're living together now. We're going to be sharing the same space. And so we kind of have to just learn to live with each other and then be cordial regardless. And so sometimes it was really hard for me to learn not necessarily with you, because I've never had an issue with you, honestly, just with other people in fact. Beautiful. Bro, I was just a different person. I kind of didn't take shit when it came to certain treatments with staff and some of the stuff that went down, even with other youth. And so I kind of tried to just still be peaceful. But I always wanted to maintain this level of respect for everybody. If I respect you, I expect the same return and type of thing. Man, it's so vivid now in my head since I'm sitting here with you, like the things that we kind of experience. I'm wondering if it's cool if we say names. I don't [BLEEP] wouldn't really mind, you know? Yeah, I'm sure [BLEEP] wouldn't mind. I don't know about everybody else. Yeah, we'll just reference them in a different way, because there is one person that I want to bring up, and I think you know exactly who I'm going to be bringing up. Does their name start with a D? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's from a different perspective, though. [BLEEP] I love [BLEEP] Listen, it's like my human now. And we've stayed connected. He's actually helped me so much with this podcast, with creating of it. You hear him in the background of some episodes and stuff, and you see him walking around just so-- He's just like his own-- I think of himself being this weird little guy that we absolutely love. Yeah, that was like-- Here's the thing about our group home. So I was kind of like the mom in the group home. [BLEEP] He declared himself as like dog. Remember that? And then we were like-- And I was the baby. You were the baby. Yeah, and so, uh, and then there was [BLEEP] and all of them, I still, like, I still love [BLEEP] I still keep in touch with him as well. Oh, yeah. He was like the ghost. He was the ghost. He was declared as the ghost. He was the quiet, like-- he was always like a such a quiet and chill dude that like-- just like, I don't know, I have a lot of love for that guy because he, like, even when we were living together, I could see, like, all this shit that he had to put up with. And all this, like, hardship that he had to, like, you know, get to work on with this and stuff like that. Like, every single day, he was just so strong and such a cool dude. Yes. All the time. That's one thing that everybody said about him, is that he was such a hard worker. He would work all hours of the night and come home late with some Popeyes and whatever, just high as-- Highest shit, just buying his own business, eating his dick. And I remember, like, we would be in meetings or just, like, talking. And then, like, you would just turn around and he's there. You wouldn't even hear him coming. He would just appear, like, so silent. That's why he was, like, the ghost. He would be, like, in and out. And just, like, no one had ever had an issue with everybody, regardless of who they were, and regardless of, like, what type of personality was inside that group home, whether they're, like, hard people, you know, who were just, like, tough guys or wanted to appear as tough guys, or if they're just, like, loving, quirky, kind of, like-- I love Carly Quinn, you know? Like, everybody just adored, like, he had principles, right? And it was very clear that, like, hey, we help each other. We respect each other. We don't rob each other, or at least I won't rob you. I will rob the rich, kind of like Robin Hood. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. And, like, then there's, like, [BLEEP] he kind of just gave me the most amount of headache in the group home. Who tried me? It was always really funny, because I could-- the one thing about is-- and this is something, like, I, like, you know, when I tell people my experience in group homes and stuff like that, I'm always the most funny person to bring up, just how he loves to just run up and down the stairs, and, like, from one point of the house to the other, just at full speed. And then he would just, ah, there's, like, certain things that he just did. That was just, like, I will be in the kitchen just working away. That's just my identity. If you just knew me in the group home, you knew that I was that person that was just in the kitchen, came home from, like, school, maybe sometimes late, went straight to the kitchen, and did homework into, like, three hours. You were the wonder child of the group. He was the only one that actually gave a buck-- a fuck about your score. You were always, like, OK, I have to sit down. I have all of these school projects I have to work on. I have to get good grade. I have these fucking universities I have to apply for. And meanwhile, me and the rest of the guys are just, like, hey, you want to smoke some weed? Everybody-- I remember when, like, you guys got me to smoke weed for the first time. I don't even remember that. What? I do. You guys didn't smoke weed? We weren't able to convince you to do that? What? It was so funny. I remember vividly, like, we went-- I think we went to some kind of school or something like that. It was late. And, like, I don't even know why I should be saying this, but it was from, like, a bong. And I remember just killing my throat. I was just, like, ugh. What is this? I don't like it. And then for the rest of the night, I was just eating these crackers, and they taste so good. But yeah. But I personally want to emphasize one thing, though. Specifically, just like with the structure of the group home, it frustrated me. It frustrated me so much because I have seen so many kids go into that group home starting from just a place of struggle, a place of wanting to seek help, and then leaving with hard addictions, leaving feeling helpless, homeless, useless, worthless, everything, right? And that was me. That was me as well. I went in with a vision, a path. Nobody's going to mess it up for me or whatever. And throughout my time there, I kicked you not. The staff just picked at me. They were like, no, you're not allowed to do your homework here. You're not allowed to do it in the office. You can't do it in the kitchen anymore. Or you have a timeline of how much time you could spend or whatever. They would try and, oh, it just drove me crazy how, like, they wouldn't at least give-- I mean, I want you to share your experience, but they wouldn't give me a break. I was trying. I was trying. And they got in the way of it. And I, for that, can never forgive them, right? Oh, yeah. With me, it was a little weird. That's the shirts. Because when I first went into there, how I actually started public speaking for them was we had this event happen where it was like a staff appreciation event thing for the staff of 360. And they brought all of us because, well, they couldn't just leave us alone in the house because we burned the place down if we were not supervised for any amount of time. They'd run us along. And they asked us, hey, do you guys want to say something to the staff? Mitch went up first his speech, which is filled with as many profanities as you can put in a speech. And then I went up. And I was like, OK, look, thank you. I appreciate having a safe place where I'm allowed to be myself. And after I said my piece, I had the CEO of the company come up to me and be like, hey, we have a fundraiser gallery in a few weeks. Would you like to be one of the speakers? I was like, yeah, sure. So after that, I kind of became like the poster child for the group. Oh, look at this kid. He's doing so much. He's so responsible. And then I just slowly went down the path of, I hate all of this, I hate all of you. Yes. And it's mostly just because that was the first time in my life where I had the opportunity to just say [BLEEP] I mean, even looking back on it, I always had a problem with authority. I still do. It was deeper than that. Like, oh, I would love to-- Oh, my god. I would love to go in because there's so many vivid things that I remember that it honestly stopped me if I ever go over the line or talk about anything that you're uncomfortable with. But for sure, with the whole poster child public speaking thing, they tokenized you. And it upset me, especially when you did that interview, I think, with like [BLEEP] or-- Oh, god, yeah. Was it like Toronto or something like that? Oh, it was most-- I did interviews for city [BLEEP] TV. I did one for a city [BLEEP] video. And then later on, I did a very short one for a [BLEEP] Yeah. Yeah. They just kind of like put me on as many of these news spots as they can to be like, hey, look at how progressive we are. We have this trans kid who we're just going to place all of these kids on and hope that she gets as much money as she can. Yes. And I remember you coming home and telling us, or telling me at least, how the interview went and how they told you to sit on this swing and make you look sad and just tell you how depressed you were and how you got kicked out of your home because you were trans and how [BLEEP] you in and they saved your life. In my eyes, I was livid. I was so upset because they took advantage of you. What-- they don't realize what they probably-- they know that's a lie. They realize this because they're teaching you to just learn how to be helpless and learn how to just rely on these different programs to save you, right? And it was so frustrating because I saw other sides of you. I saw-- yes, I saw you when you were depressed and anxious and you wouldn't come out of your room for days sometimes. But I also saw you when you were happy and bubbly and just constantly going out, obviously skipping school, but going out, you were interacting. I saw both sides. I saw you when you went and got diagnosed. I saw you when you wanted to be better, do better. I saw you in your hard times and the good times when you helped out and cooked. I remember with Glenette and Nigel the first time, I think, when I started to come, first month or so, and I was helping you cook this meal. It was like this chicken meal. And you were so proud of it and stuff. And it tastes really good and it's smelled like the whole house smelled really good. But it wasn't your fault. One of the staff, he took the chicken out too early. Oh, yeah, the chicken was undercooked. It was undercooked. So I got sick afterwards. Me and Nigel were just like-- Yeah, I think I remember which staff it was. It was [BLEEP] I think. Some of the staff, I look up back on them, and I'm like, you should not have been helping us. You don't know how to cook. He was a good one. He was a good one. He cared. And that's kind of one of the things that I looked for. He was consistently just real and raw, right? But there were some staff who were manipulative. Oh, yeah, absolutely. How was the supervisor? I can't even call out her name. I won't. I refuse to. Obviously-- I don't remember her name. She's not smart to you. But I do just remember how cold she was constantly, right? And how just like, it was hard to go to anybody if we had a problem. Because they would always take the staff's side, at least in my eyes. If something went down, it was just-- yeah, no, I want to hear what you were going to say. But once again, it just like angered me when I saw people just constantly being kicked out, like [BLEEP] because like, yeah, they were struggling. But what are you expecting, right? When you take in these youth? This is supposed to be 360. You're changing their life completely around. So you have to be prepared for what you're taking in. Yeah, for staff who were supposed to go to school and learn how to not put up with us, I guess it's a little mean to say about myself and all of us. But for people who are supposed to be educated in helping us know how to go about dealing with our mental breakdowns and stuff like that, they really just like-- they really just suited us like, oh, god. Another kid I have to deal with. I'm just here to make my life-- I don't know how much they're making probably like $20, $25 an hour. Yeah, a lot of these people, a lot of the staff, just looked like they were so burnt out and they just don't want to deal with this anymore. And I guess that is just kind of like the unfortunate truth about the social working. Yeah, I'm not excusing it at all. It's more or less like an explanation in my head that I've come up with. They probably weren't good staff when they first started out. Don't get me wrong, they probably did care. They did want to do everything they could for the kids. But because of the-- probably lack of support on their end as well with some of them. Oh, and just becoming so desensitized to all of it, just being like, you know what? I don't give a shit about these kids. They're just being fucking-- Yeah. Yeah. Especially with the supervisor, she really was one of the people that turned me into the poster challenge of the organization. Same thing with the lady in the marketing-- not marketing, sorry, the fundraising department at the group home. But yeah, no, I remember actually towards the end of the stage there, we had a-- I don't know if you remember this. We had a conference at the station. Oh, yeah. I remember. Yeah, I remember I actually-- I went up to the program manager at the head office because I was there talking to the fundraising lady. And I asked her, hey, how often are they supposed to spray the house? I said, oh, once a month. I'm like, once a month. So yeah, I'm like, I have not seen the house get sprayed even once in my one year of living there. I just was like, what? I'm like, yeah, it's OK. I'll go talk to the supervisor. I was like, don't worry. And I went up to the supervisor the next day. I was like, hey, how often is the house supposed to be sprayed? She's like, oh, you know, every three months or so, but we don't need to spray it so often. I'm like, are you sure? Because so-and-so, the project manager says that you're supposed to do it once a month. Immediately, her expression changed. It dropped. And she just turned around, went downstairs into her office. And the next day, we had an exterminator. See? It's just like, you want to put your kids in better living situations because you're here to try and better their circumstances, right? And so yeah, having a nice, clean house that's not infested with rats or cockroaches or anything like that is like a minimum, you know, right? So I agree. Yeah, and it's really frustrating when staff kind of just don't take you seriously until you kind of have to get other people higher up involved. It shouldn't have to be like that, yeah. Yeah, so I can't believe I have to go to the project manager just to get, like, you know, like anything don't-- like you said, it's literally the bare minimum of living in a clean house. Yeah. Having food that's not fine. I mean, you can buy your own food at one point, right? Yes, listen. That was one thing that I was, aha, I remember seeing. But here's the thing. I tried so hard to, like, advocate for you guys, too, to just, like, get a better living situation because I was just not having it. And so I would try to constantly negotiate. And they constantly told me that, like, going shopping with them or whatever, or they kind of, like, emphasized the idea that food is a privilege. It's not a right. And that is one thing that upset me. The fact that I had to, like, start working and pay for better groceries for everybody else in that house is, like, inexcusable. I complete all the time about how, at the end, not even mid, by the mid of the week, any kind of fresh produce meat or whatever was gone. You were not getting enough groceries for seven kids. Seven pretty much teenagers, right, who are all living in the same house together. I was constantly cooking. I was constantly cleaning. I remember the Sunday breakfasts that I'll always make with crepes and bacon and eggs that, oh, I love you. Good. You always did such a good job of, like, making the breakfast and stuff like that, at least making that house feel somewhat normal, I guess. Like, we weren't living in, like, this weird, uncomfortable bed. We were all so, like, fed up with. And, you know, we had a morning breakfast and we all sat at the table. Yeah. I remember I was kind of strict with that, too. Like, breakfast, y'all, better come down. I was aggressive too. I remember my little antics, but it was really frustrating that, like, I remember them specifically saying, and I'll be like, OK, you guys, it's Tuesday. Here is my list of groceries. And every time I wrote up a list, they would just not even, like, look at it. Well, they would look at it and maybe take some dates into consideration. But all of us, if we needed to cook something, would have to write a list of produce and stuff that we would need for our day to cook. And so I would do that. And they just would still not get a whole bunch of things of the list. So I asked them, OK, can I go grocery shopping with you? And then sometimes they would include me. And then other times they would just be like, no, that is a privilege. You cannot. And then those days would be missing a whole lot of stuff. It's OK. They would come back with groceries. I would figure out, OK, what is missing out of what I had requested? And then I would go and buy more groceries myself to last us a little bit longer in the week. And it was frustrating that I had to do that. And small things like that, what I would complain about, yo, we should not be relying on having canned soup, expired canned soup all the time. Oh, yeah. Like, Oakley was OK with it. Oakley admitted that, yeah, they were not being fed properly. All they had was like, the most of the time they would have for dinner would be soups and sandwiches or something basic and unhealthy like that. I'm like, aha, no, I'm not doing that. I would make macaroni pie. I would try and make your chicken sometimes. And I remember ackee and salt, but some Caribbean foods that I knew that, yeah, yeah. But I would cook. I was trying to make it like a clean living space or whatever. And the more I would do it, the more they would expect from me. And then even if I needed break, even if I needed me time, if I wasn't in a good space, they would take it out on me. Yeah. Right. Like, I would tell them and I would sit down and give them the rules and listen, hey, if my room is messy, it's meaning that I'm not in a good place right now. So please just either approach to me and ask if I'm OK, or just give me some space. Give me time to collect myself. And they did it. One thing that I also look back on and feel like they could have done more is when I started to get worse in terms of my behavior as well as my mental health in general. And with somebody that I shouldn't have been hanging out with, the fact I didn't give a shit. Like, they saw it like that. I was saying, worse, I wasn't going to these events that I was going to. I wasn't doing public speaking anymore. I was going out skipping school and not giving a shit about a single thing. They were like, you know what, I don't want to have to deal with a kid either. Not once do I remember having to be being like, hey, like, are you OK? Like, I noticed like a huge change in your behavior. So they did absolutely fine. Yeah. Yeah, no, like, my behavior got so bad that when I put through poems, I just, I did worse. I got addicted to cocaine and I was doing all this other shit. I remember. Yeah. That, yeah. Yeah, it broke my heart. And me and Mitchell kind of still talk about it to this day about kind of what you went through after what's his name came into the group home, you know. Yeah. Quite frankly, I was some of the things that you guys came back in the stories that you guys would tell me of what you've done throughout your day. Always like skipping school, sometimes Robbie the liquor store. And but like, let me know if you want me to include this or not. It's just like it just. Even when you would talk about like you would spend a lot of your days just like begging on the streets and stuff for like cash because we needed it. It was just it broke me. I'm like, no, Sam, like you're being set up right now and you don't see it. And yeah, I saw like when you even you, Mitchell, sometimes will be a part of your little group after like, I remember one time we went camping and you guys didn't come. And so you guys stayed in like blue doors or something like that. And yeah, like slept under bridges and things. I'm like, Sam, it was hard to see. Yeah, like especially like looking back on all of that. Like sometimes I look back on it. I'm like, why did I do that? Like what was up with me? Literally the only thing like the reason why I did all those things I did was I was still trying to figure out who I was. Yes. And you know, like trying to be like, OK, well, I'm a guy now. I'm a man. What a guy is to do. I don't know. I guess I'm going to follow these dudes and see what the fuck they're doing and just copy what they're up to. And I didn't know any better. I had no support system or anybody that I could look up to. I what I really needed was like a parental figure, really, like a father figure or like a brother or something to like help me out. Yeah, I had one of those. And so I just went to what's up that next best thing. What was the guy that one guy? Yeah, and like, I feel like you can also do that. That I was like very easily manipulated is like I think it makes me do whatever you wanted me to do. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, like looking back on that, it's like really tough. But like at the end of the day, I'm kind of glad that I know who I am. I do what I want. I'm happy that those years didn't define the rest of you. It didn't find the rest of your future. It was a phase of you just like trying to find your identity. And but in somewhere deep inside of you, you just knew that that's just not who you were. Yeah, no, I was just saying like, I'm so copy that like in the end, you know who you are. And like those things, those years didn't define you. And other people didn't define what your path was going to be. Because I get it. He was struggling as well. He like had a different upbringing, a different group around him in different, you know, reflections of what a man was in his perception. And it was like a lot more violent. It was a lot more robbery and just gang and stuff like that. And that's just not who you are. And that got me that got me thinking. Like it's important to be able to have like some kind of mentorship. But imagine having mentorship from like either it could be just men for like trans men to help them learn what it really truly means to be a man. You know, things like that. I don't know what you think about that. Oh, God, I have a lot of opinions on that, actually. You know, like how you mentioned like how I mentioned having a mentor and somebody to show you what it means to be a man. Like a lot of trans dudes, I find obviously don't have that. Just like I turn to what the stereotype of a man is. So society says that men are tough. They don't have emotions. They are assholes and all this stuff. And so, you know, like that's kind of how I was as well. I was like, OK, well, that's what I mean if I'm going to be that. And it wasn't. And it took me a while to be like, no, being a man at the end of the day. Well, first off, gender is fake. It's a social construct. Yes. At the end of the day, I know that, like, yeah, I'm a man, but I'm very soft. I I'm quite emotional. I love animals. I have two cats that I absolutely love. I am also very at least I try to be very, you know, aware of like my own behaviors in terms of like toxic masculinity. How I just treat people in general, yeah. And it took me a while to like figure that out. It took me years. And I I did that one point, you know, to come to the toxic masculinity, like the toxic masculine like way of thinking because I had a. This guy that was like who's like years older than me, who was trying to like raise me and show me an example of what that is. And lo and behold, he's toxic with a boxer. So, you know, I have to unlearn that and, you know, figure that shit out on my own. And like, I'm personally pretty lucky that I have the. You know, the ability to take a step back and like look at my situation. Look at myself. Yeah. And people don't have that. So that's why like, I find a lot of things just get lost in this, like society, the society's toxic way of thinking. Yeah, like that they should be thought like. Honestly, there should be programs for trans women and trans men. Kind of like the big brother, there's big sister, like program, except specifically for trans people. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there really is not enough in terms of mentorship for the people like that's very true. And I've been trying to do. This is one thing that has been talked about a lot in this season. You'd like, you don't even realize like mentorship kind of comes up at least once every like two, three episodes or maybe like five times within every two, three episodes. It's insane mentorship, mentorship, mentorship. That's what we want. That's what we're looking for, because we need guidance. We need to be able to have like a vision of ourselves through or like what our possibilities are, what our actual capabilities are, which is outside of poverty, because that's all we see in the child welfare system. That's all people paint us to be, and that's what they painted you to be. That's what they painted me to be on these different committees. In these interviews, it's just this helplessness. It's a trauma bonding kind of scenario. And so we're stuck with this mentality way after we leave. And it's and that is so bad because that's how we end up homeless. That's how we end up in poverty and struggling for probably the rest of our lives, because nobody's trying to teach us otherwise, that we are more than that. Right. And I want to ask you, like, what happened? Like, what happened? Like, what was your journey after you left 360? Oh, boy. Well, like I said, I got put into a different group home. I was moved to a group home in a starbroke one called Kennedy House. And I was this man. This house was weird because it was an old farmhouse that they had. And this house was definitely fucking haunted. Let me tell you that. It was Oakley, wasn't it? Oakley. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Oakley was haunted, too. But not to the same degree as this house was, this house, we had a guy, this random dude, pull up in the driveway and the staff were like sketched out. They're like, what is this guy doing here? And turns out it was the student who had lived there in the 70s or 80s as a kid. And he was like, I just wanted to visit and see what it's like. And I overheard him talking to one of the staff and him saying how like, oh, you know, that road that's in front there, the like the Kennedy Road. That was just like dirt. That was just a dirt road and everything around was just part of it. And yeah, this is out in Scarborough near near Pacific, well, like on the border of like Scarborough and Markham. And yeah, no, it was an old house. And I got moved there, stayed there for. I stayed there for like eight, nine months before I. Yeah, I lived, I stayed there for a little bit. I left on my 18th birthday towards the end of me staying there. I had a buddy that I had a guy that I thought was like incredibly close with. He in some ways was kind of like, it was very sweet. He was I still talk to him to this day. He's he's like a brother. Essentially, there was another kid living there and him and my body were like getting into fights every single day. It's the point where my guy, my like my body was having a mental breakdown. And staff had to call the paramedics. Paramedics couldn't call them down. So they called the police and the police decided that the best course of action in calming down a 60 year old who was five foot four was getting six cops on top of him and tasing him and breaking his wrist. Um, yeah, and that was the day I left. I, uh, I, it was my 18th birthday, November 11th. And I left and moved in with a very close friend of mine that I used through my time going into live action role playing games. And from there, I had to figure out how to be an adult, uh, live on how to write and go to work. And I, I've moved around a lot. I've out surfed for a while, met somebody, got engaged to her. That fell apart, moved to Scarborough to live with my best friend. And, uh, his, like at the time that we're dating. And I moved here and I'm living with my partner and roommate, especially like looking back on it is so weirdly condensed in like all the shit happening. Like I was always on the move from one house to the other and just like how certain go like fucking figure and worm. Yeah. Yeah. And like living in the second group home out at, uh, out at Kennedy house. Like I obviously had my own struggles there that was quite similar to, you know, living with you and me, you know, having to put up with like the kids there and putting up with the staff. Um, in fact, I actually have to file a thing with the. A bunch of it in regards to the group of next day because they violated a protocol. So you have to get that. Yeah, it's weird. Like I said, it's weird. Like looking back on it and trying to like talk about it just because like a, I haven't done a lot of like break a lot of reflection. Well, yeah, I haven't done a lot of reflection as well. It's just like, you know, sitting down and breaking these things. I'm looking at it because I'm telling you, this is actually something. Um, Troy had brought up in our episode. Um, I will actually send you that episode afterwards. Um, because it was a pretty good one. Um, it was basically like one thing that he really said is that. Typically we don't process what's happening to us while we're living in our trauma, but once we are out of it, it kind of like all hits us at once. And I was like, it did that for me. Like I didn't even, I'm not sure if I told you, but like, um, when I had went to university, like I had almost lost my leg because like, yeah, no. Yeah, it's just when it all kind of hits you at once, it gets too much. And we live like, I want to say that we live like this same life, but like our situations are not far off, like constantly moving, constantly in another crisis. It's just ongoing. It doesn't stop in when you're in the midst of it. So it's like, yo, when is this ending? Because I can't take it anymore. It's too much. I don't have the energy for this anymore. I've tried, I've fought and like I need to see an exit out of it soon or else like, I don't know where I'm going for the year, what's going to happen to me. And I'm so grateful that you survived it all. I'm so proud of you for like surviving it all. Like you are so powerful. And like, I hope you like realize that. I, you are, I will fight you right now. You are powerful. I really do appreciate it. And you know, things that goes to you because you're doing all this like awesome shit right now. You started your own podcast, you're like working on a bunch of different things and trying to, you know, get our voices out there because nobody's doing that, you know, when you've had to put up with so much bullshit. And like right now, I don't know about you, but like right now we're both at a pretty like stable place where we're like, OK, we have our roof over our heads. We have people that care about us. And for the most part, most of our needs are met. However, at least for me, I'm still like, OK, what's that? Yeah, what's going to and like, what kind of bullshit am I going to have to put up with again, even though I know that like everything's killed. Like, I got a job, I got, I got a partner that I absolutely love. I have a best friend at two paths that I take care of. Like I should feel like it's fine now. But once it feels like it's not, you know, learn helplessness. It's a little learn helplessness. It's 100 percent that. And there's, oh, there's so much that I've learned over this past six months. So much that so many conversations that I've had with people one on one and different insights, like you really do just get it. When you like, I don't know, that's why I really want you to just like be a part of our season two in some capacity. Because like it has helped me have a new view of like, you know what? The trauma that life is behind me now. It truly is behind me now. It doesn't define me and it's not going to define my future. And I'm training myself to see things other than crises, right? And the second that you're able to like train your brain to have that type of vision, I can't do not your life changes. Yeah, no, I'm just happy that like we're both doing pretty good. Yeah, we're both able to sit down and like look back on this shit and like actually talk about. Yeah. And it's one thing to talk about it for sure. But like I want to, I truly want to use our experiences to like change things now, because you have such a powerful story. There's like, not to like, you know, like put you in a bracket or anything like that. But the way that people will like bracket you, like, yes, we're a trans person who's dealt with homelessness, who has dealt with like immigration and stuff who had, you know, like you're taking all of these minority sector boxes and you're able to speak on things that like really could change. Like, for example, your identification at the beginning of COVID, I still remember this. And I addressed this, I said that I legitimately want to like the office of the children's lawyers and we talked about it in like this little group meeting with like at least 80 people in it. I'm like, yo, there's some people who don't have their identifications when they turn 18 and what that does is that they can't get a job and can't open up a bank account, they can't get housing, nothing. That needs to be priority. Like you have so much knowledge, so much that you can educate and you're so incredibly fluent. You're so you're you're a good speaker. You have so much, this is a good field for you to be in. I'm telling you, like I had asked my social worker, look, listen, I need help getting my first student, I need you to help me get this. But because I had already turned 18, she's like, well, that's your problem. You're the one that's supposed to do that. You're an adult. And I'm like, OK, yeah, I fucking understand that. Thank you very much. However, I wasn't taught how to operate as an adult. Nobody taught me how to do that. Can you help me do that? You're just like, no, that's on you, you know. But yeah, no, like, and especially considering the. Complexity of my situation, like I it's not like I was born here. I can't just go to the service Ontario and ask them to get me in versus. I have to go to the fucking embassy of Kazakhstan. Talk to them, pay the money, have them to have the mail it from Kazakhstan over here. You know, I look at this whole situation and I thought I'd done anything about it because of how overwhelming it is. And yeah, if only the government could give it, that'd be nice. Yeah, no, that is not OK. I wrote that down so I'd be able to, like, see what I could do on my end. Are you OK with that? Can I help you with that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could. Yeah, the only, like I said, the only reason why I haven't done anything about it is just because it's like fucking overwhelming. This whole thing is and also we're in the middle of COVID. I got I got work to do. I got to pay my bills. I can't be worried about this shit right now. Yeah, but you do have to worry about it. You still absolutely do. It should be a priority to some degree because it interferes with everything. It interferes with your independence, and that is OK. So, for example, bank account, like I only have a savings account that I have to pay out the asset like service fees. And when I tried to be like, hey, look, can I like open up a new account? They were like, well, we need some identification. And I don't have it. So, yeah. I'm so happy that like I'm really able to connect with you again. I hope we're able to do some really good work going forward. Yeah. Yeah. If you're down, oh, oh, hell, yes, I'm down. They're like, yeah, like, I've been pretty excited for this whole thing with you because, A, I get to talk to you again. B, I've been wanting to do something, you know, like I've been like hearing other people's experiences and like, you know, looking back on my own experience as well and like how the system bailed us essentially, thinking like, ah, like, is there anything I can do? Like, I don't want to fucking do something about it. Let's do it. Listen. Oh, we we could definitely I know you and I know like how incredibly strong, resilient you are and just how eloquent you are with your words. We could definitely do I have so many ideas. OK, you will be hearing more of Sam. I'm going to emphasize that and I know we're coming close to the end of like this episode, particularly the conversation is not over. It's not two final questions. I want to ask you before we end today's conversation. If you're OK with that, the first one is what is something that you understand or you know now that you wish you knew while you were still in the foster care system? Your self-worth isn't dictated by who you have in your life. Because a lot of times I felt like looking back at it, you know, but like, I didn't have any family. I felt like I didn't have any friends. And I felt like that in itself doesn't directly translate into myself work. And yeah, sure, I didn't I didn't have a lot of people growing up. I didn't have a lot of support. But that still doesn't mean that I'm worthless. Yeah, like it kind of makes me feel like I'm a little worth more because I managed to work through all of those hardships on my own. And I still got out of it. Pretty, I'm not going to say I got a fine. I came out of it with a lot of problems, but I still. Still came out of it, you know, it's still alive, so yeah. Yeah, I love that. And lastly, what is something that you could use right now that could help you alleviate the effects of the foster care system? Oh, my God, better mental health care, better, better funding for mental health support, not taking us out of the system as soon as we turn 18. Or we turn 21 when we lost our money. Yeah, yes. Yeah. The fact that there's not there's nothing proper set up to help us transition from turning, you know, turning 21 and having all of our sports, because I feel like that's where most kids, most like former crown wards get like, but that they like fall through the cracks is having all of our sports cut off by the government. Like, I honestly think that there should be like a proper program set up. Then, you know, hey, you have a year left with us. Here's what we can do. Here's the plan or something extending it to 25, because that's what our brain stopped, you know. Oh, brain stops developing. Yeah. Yeah. That's what our brain stopped developing. That's what we, you know, scientifically speaking, become adults. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, the audience personally will know exactly what I'm going to say in response to that right now because of COVID-19. They have put in place this or they're trying to put in place this system called a readiness based system. So actually replacing arbitrary age indicators at 18 and 21 and replacing it with readiness. So like, where is a person currently in their life? Are they ready to age out? And if they're not, then they are they are allowed to stay in care. And so that also and they're also trying to talk about or implement this aspect of it where youth who have already aged out might have the option to go back into care. Oh, right. It's not interesting. That is very interesting. However, I feel like one way they're just going to get around that by saying, well, we think you're ready. Right. And out of here, I don't have to help you. I think you're fine. Like I'm a little suspicious of it. I don't know, like, exactly how well that's going to work. But, you know, in a perfect world, it's going to be a great thing. Oh, yeah, I will continue to update you on how that's going. But like it is some interesting stuff what they're doing. And I personally know the people who are actually leading that initiative. And so they are really trying to prioritize the youth in their and in their opinion on where they are at in their current life. So obviously, other people can't dictate where you like what your mental health is, what your level of independence is that's up to you. And that's legitimately their motto. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time and speaking with me. Thank you for just like reinterred my life again and sharing these stories and the good ones, the bad ones and reflecting on like being able to reflect on our experiences is just very refreshing for me to know that we've overcome it, and I'm so proud of you. Thank you. I'm I'm really proud of you. [BLANK_AUDIO]