EPISODE 14: Climate Change is a Health Issue

Hi, I'm Makayla Lach and I'm Rebecca and this is the Yikes Podcast. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Yikes Podcast. The podcast all about things from allyship, activism, refugee rights, climate justice and any other oppression. Basically these topics that consume overwhelming and can make us want to yikes and run away. But instead we're going to lean into those issues, talk about them, try and have an inclusive conversation and work out what we can actually do about these. So today we're talking about health and climate change and medicine and all of those things which are very excited. It's super important that it's something that isn't talked about enough in the climate conversation. We're going to be talking about how talking about the climate change as a health issue can be really helpful because it can engage people who might not engage with this issue in other ways. It can also, when we look at the solutions, they can help other social inequality. We're just going to dive into all of that stuff. That's great. Because I think you definitely have told me a lot and inspired me a lot around how you as a medical student are so engaged in the climate activism and have so much spoken about how those two things are latent. And I think often we tend to not see that or it's not talked about enough as you just mentioned. So yeah, do you want to share, I don't know, like what got you into, like, how you see for yourself, like the two things? Yeah, I think it's quite funny that people find it surprising that as a medical student, I'm involved with activism. And I find that quite, that's kind of been faster than the issue. Yes. Well, the issue that a lot of medical professionals see themselves as like apolitical or see themselves outside of politics or outside of activism or outside of these issues or like don't have time to care about these issues when like all of these issues, health issues and medical issues as well. Also, social justice issues are medical issues. I was talking to someone recently who was we were talking about this and I was saying talking specifically about racism though. And like how I felt exhausted doing like how many to do racial justice work like within the medical school. And they were saying to me, but like, for that's health work. Like, but that is health work and she was like, of our patients experience these issues that cause them to have different health like disparities. So therefore like anti-racism work is health work, climate justice work is health work. Like we need to stop separating these things. I think for me it was like, I think seeing how social inequality, and racial inequality and oppression and the climate crisis all intersect into impacting people's health. Like it feels more bizarre for me not to be involved in trying to combat those combat those things because it's like in at least medical school they talk a lot about and wanting to treat the like the things that cause disease before you treat the disease because beforehand it used to be very much like you treat the downstream effects. So I know someone comes in with lung issues and you just treat the lung issues and they have them rather than being like, let's how can we do preventative things. And climate justice work is preventative should help work. It should be and it should be like it is bizarre that more like there are a lot of medics that are involved in this stuff and which like of course you can see this loads of groups. There's like docs not cops, which is a really good like group the words with refugee rights and anti-migration stuff and then over and by doctors and there are always groups to do that stuff. There's also the madness, weirdness of like being a plus school or being above everything else and it's like actually we need to be down in it or yeah. I guess also like medicine is often so framed as like objective or like something like very like you know science like science like it's not around like but it's not framed in a way of like where does this like called like objectivity that come from like you know where we're looking like are we actually looking at like for example. Real prevention because like real prevention of like down like I mean obviously we are already experiencing like the effects of climate change but like looking at like who's like most affected but then also like if we were preventative around these things then like we would be looking at like a lot of the population and we would be looking at like food justice and like we would be looking at like how can we how can we like actually respond to like a health crisis that is and I climate change is just the extension and like exacerbating all of these things. So that's that would lead us into like how how is health. I actually want to pick up on one thing you said just because so if people have listened to our episode with wild wild gathering we talk about beyond what environment is in the idea of objectivity. Just because you mentioned the activity there. I feel like the reason why medicine seem people seem to separate medicine from politics quote unquote so much is this idea that like scientists objective and not touched by politics but it's not like. I'm a reading during like during a film of the L. M. Pays people were sharing stuff around and how medicine medicine students are like not involve themselves in the B. L. M. movement and awful medical freshers are and one thing they're talking about is like. Medicine isn't objective like who like studies have been what kind of bodies these studies have been done on is a pliscu issue like what like for example the fact that I only ever see white skin being shown to me as an example of skin conditions or as an example of trauma. That is political like all of these like who's seen as the norm is political and so I think we need to separate this idea that anything can be objective and also like how can you be like kind of a political if you are dealing with humans yeah complex beings in the world. Like that you know like everything is political in that sense like how can you be not invested into like for example like justice issues when like you are the people who are dealing with. Like harmed by for example like systems of oppression like how could you just like completely like like that like that just like furthering the harm and like also like kind of like furthering the like. Signancing of their life experiences so like actually like I feel like a lot of times like people who are working with like medical things or something especially need to be tuned into like. Like kind of I guess like supporting and like kind of like realizing like hey i'm actually dealing with with things that are beyond my life experience maybe also with their lived experience obviously but. Like that it's not objectivity if if we are dealing with humans and humans are dealing with you know their their lived experiences like yeah also. Yeah whenever anyone says objectivity I'm like objective for who created objectivity is a framework and son of the world like yeah exactly. I would say if anyone's listening to this and you are a medical professional or something and you're thinking like oh but I don't have time to engage these issues recognize that's a privilege like to not have to engage with the need to have the news not affect you to have quote unquote politics not affect you in a way that could threaten your life is a huge privilege and having exams be the biggest stress in your whole life for the most important thing in your whole life is also a privilege and I think and like the thing that you only think you have to care about is privilege. I think that people need to check themselves on that yeah yeah but but do you should be going to actually what we're going to talk about I believe we can definitely get on tangents because it's so easy to especially when it's things so if anyone doesn't know actually I'm medical students just in case I want to make them and find these things very. Grating on my nerves because I experience the quite a lot. How can I change? Why is the climate crisis a healthy show on tell us well so the climate crisis affects everyone obviously in so many different ways but there are ways in which it directly affects health. There are loads of indirect effects and how it can increase conflicts in some countries and some parts of the world like how and that's also linked to like food insecurity and stuff because that's linked and just insecurity in general can cause conflicts and that's what can. Impact health and through my forced migration it can impact health but also direct effects like heat rated disorders and respiratory disorders people might know of linked pollution infectious diseases like even as we're seeing the rise of pandemics now like there's the possibility of more and. As genuinely ice is melting and pathogens are coming out of the ice how terrifying does that and there's also what I mentioned before food protection and food insecurity and how that will affect people's health and mental health disorders associated with natural disasters so assuming economic development and health progress we're expecting to have 250,000 additional deaths per year between 2030 and 2050 and that's a conservative and that that is. As just it taken from the WHO a lot of this information is taken from Dr Ellie Brooks lectures that I went to at the University of Edinburgh shout out Ellie she's legend and from those deaths like 38,000 a juicer heat explosion elderly 48,000 a juicer diarrhea 60,000 a juicer malaria and 95,000 a juicer childhood nutrition managed yeah which is just like yeah the health kind of crisis is a health issue like that is it's seen and these are conservative. Yeah very conservative numbers that and that's only the direct impacts like it will indirectly affect health in so many different ways and yeah we talk about climate anxiety and stuff people don't talk as much about like the actual impact of like natural disasters yeah mental health the impact of displacement on people's mental health I wrote my dissertation on care bash which is a nation in South Pacific which is based on. going to be submerged quite soon by residency levels. And that whole nation, a whole nation of people are having to work out where to go after their home is submerged. Like that has a huge impact on health in so many ways as well. Yeah, yeah. So it is a health issue. I think there's a climate psychology alliance which kind of looks at like eco-exality but also is like looking at like PDSD, like from, because there's a difference of like the like thinking about the climate crisis versus having experience like direct like, you know, like catastrophic events. And like we can like draw like obviously everything is real around that. But like we're not yet recognizing as much of like how like PDSD or something can come from and like how also like that trauma like can water like been passed on like generation and if you're living in for example like neighborhoods which are like really close to like landfills or something like how that can like all of our generations be like a mental health issues and be passed on through like physical health as well. And so yeah, and that's just going to be like more and more and more in the future. Yeah, already there have been like I think we would talk about a climate crisis too much as something that's happening in the future. Even then, we talked about that happening in the future already there have been significant amount of deaths and wrinkles due to the climate crisis and health related issues of the climate. People are currently living with health impacts of the climate crisis now like in London, the respiratory distress disorders in communities that live in more pleases areas are so much higher. And in the US, black Americans are three times more likely to die from exposures to air pollutants than their white counterparts. And it's already affecting people now is not just in the future. But like I think when we talk when we said that like you might be like, whoa, my gosh, it's very wild yikes want to run away. But the way seeing the climate crisis as a health issue, you can also help pass in so many ways because the way it affects health and the way in which a lot of things affect people, it affects the people who are most marginalized more. So the people who already are marginalized people who are already have been made vulnerable by systems of oppression. They are the ones who are being affected the most. So like women people like to save people people of color, they are more chosen elderly, chosen elderly, they're more likely to experience these effects and they have a greater risk, which means that when we address these issues, we also address inequality, which I think is really beautiful and like a really nice way to think about it. The Lancet in there 2009 Commission on Health and Climate Change, they said the climate change is the biggest global health threat of the 21st century. And then in 2015, they changed that to say that the central finding from the commission's work is that tackling climate change could be the greatest global health opportunity of the 21st century. How great is that? I'm so interested by the change of phrasing because there's one, obviously they're recognising it as such a big issue, but also they're seeing the opportunities for multiple systems at the same time if we took the series. I feel like the framing of the crisis is very reactionary where then in 2015 when they changed their language opportunity, it's more preventative and it's like, we are actually looking at a more holistic, complex system approach now. We are looking at all of the different sectors that make up health wise, also tackling climate change, rather than seeing these separate issues and we're dealing with one and then afterwards the second, so I find that very interesting of how we can also, I guess it's also a better selling point. Yeah, but it's such a more hopeful way to look at it and a way in which also addresses the intersections of all of these things. It's a way of being, like, of them being, like we recognise that health is inherently linked to social inequality, racial inequality, oppression. I mean, recognising the way in which people feel these health impacts is linked to their oppression. And therefore, solutions that we can create can create a better world for all these people and can kind of tackle a lot of these social determinants of health that people have been trying to tackle for so long. And so I think for me, it makes me a lot more hopeful because I'm like, actually, and how we tackle this and how we combat this and how we mitigate the effects of climate crisis, we could also create a better world for everyone. Yeah, that's like, how great is that? What great so? Yeah. And it's such a better self than, like, you need to do, you can't do this, this, this, this, any more period where it's like now, it's like, oh, look, we're actually like, we're tackling the food system, we're tackling the water, we're tackling all of this to improve everyone's health. Yeah. And like, that could look like, I don't know, things they talk about in their reports, like green spaces, improve health in so many ways, not just in, like, not just in removing pollution from areas directly, but also in encouraging people to go outside and like move their bodies more and like, how tackling, like, how the climate crisis plays into the food system as well, like that improves health in so many other ways, because it makes like food more available for people. Yeah. Like, it's just a very hopeful way of like looking at how could we even redesign the places that we live to be like this? I think it's so interesting, because it shows, it just like highlights again that like, if you tackle one thing without looking at the intersections of other things, then like, it will probably cause more harm than get it. Like if we look at this, like, you know, like this, like, complex, like, in, like, this, the intersections of everything, because like, there's a big thing, for example, about like, improving green spaces. But then there was like, there's this whole thing around, like, eco-gentification. So like, just by placing like a green space into a neighborhood, often like raises the prizes of like the housing and like, there's like stigma of like, who can actually hang out safely in these spaces, you know? So like that would actually often push out the people from the neighborhood who would actually benefit. But like, if you then, if you look at like, okay, what, how, how could we, for example, improve this neighborhood to reduce evolution and to address like, people being outside more and to like, just like kind of like, improve active, active being or like, active travel and like, more like exercise without having to like put the pressure on the individuals. And why is designing in a way that like, actually, benefits the people who it should benefit the most. Then I feel like it's so much less stress and like so much less like, of like, we have to do this. But it's like more of the focus of like, look at the opportunities for justice, for like well-being, for mental health, for all of these things and for climate change. Because inevitably, like climate change is just the, you know, the extension of all of these other issues really. Hello. So the Yikes podcast is primarily supported by our wonderful patrons. And if you do not, patron is, it's basically a platform that you can support creators to make content. Because we can't be far with capitalism. So yeah, sponsored ads. We do some sponsored ads, but usually most companies don't really support what we're doing. So we're supporting our company, supporting our work and your ingested shout out. But in general, we want to be supported by our community. Because that means you can talk about the things that we want to talk about. We aren't influenced in any way by anything. We just talk about the things that we think are important. And a lot of these issues aren't really supported by many things. So that's why we're supported by you when we own our community. Yeah. So learn from us, you appreciate our work and this podcast. Then, yeah, please join our Patreon. It's the Yikes podcast, just on Patreon. And it helps making this podcast sustainable and makes it actually happen. And more. Yeah. And also, we put on for the second tier, we put on extra bonus episodes every week. So you get extra content where we have more relaxed chats about so many different things. We talked about migrant rights a lot on there. We talked about more about the media. We talked about so many different things. Different things. Different things. It's a really great space as well. We sometimes do Q&A's, we share essays on there. You just get more content from us and mainly you can support our work if you've learnt anything from us. So thank you to all the people who are already supporting us. And yeah, thank you for making this happen. And yeah, please check out Patreon link in the show notes and we hope you're enjoying this episode. Yeah, thanks. There's a scholar who talks about inequalities of health and says that they, health inequalities, like social inequalities are written on the body as health inequalities. Wow. Who think is really powerful? It's like the inequalities that people face within society become written on your body as health inequalities. And we've, we've mentioned this at least in the Patreon before about like maternal mortality rates being different and stuff like that. But yeah, I think health is an issue where like then you just like I hadn't even thought about like eco-genification stuff. Like it intersects with all these different issues and like if we tackle how inequality gets written on people's bodies, then maybe we'll be able to tackle the inequality itself. Yeah. And I think a lot more people also like, I mean obviously this is not what we're going for entirely because we want people to care about climate change and other people. But it is also like for the individualistic and like the like ego focus society that we are in right now. Like it is actually a really good setting point to get people into the discussion around like look actually like you can improve your health and we can improve your neighbor's health. And then it's like, yeah, I guess it's like an entry point into like a bigger discussion. Yeah, I think people can more about health and they do a lot of battle out of things. I think we even saw that in the past. pandemic, like think about how people have responded to the, it might be, there are so many different factors like obviously the immediacy of it is, is in a factor as well. But people respond to health as an issue more than they do to other issues. Like people responded to COVID more than they'd answer the current crisis. May and so think about the fact that people do actually seem to care about their health and like health as an issue. So if we talk about the current crisis through the end of health and it could be really helpful in getting people on, like yeah, I know I find it different. So I'm like, do I want people, I do, we need to have everyone, not cry in a way, everyone on board. We need to have people on board, as many people to care about the current crisis as possible. It's frustrating when some people aren't caring it like, but like it is something that we need people to care about. I think for, I think that, I mean, we always talk about like the diff, like the like multiplicity of tools we can use and this could be one anyway to get in some of the like, let's say like the, the people who are like, who have nothing to do with climate change just yet, but it's like almost like the entry point. But like, and then obviously like, I don't know, I think we want to get to a place where like even if you are in the best shape possible, you would still do everything possible to protect your neighbor's health and their livelihoods or something, you know, like I guess this is like what, what, like the pandemic is trying is like kind of teaching us but trying and like not really happening with a moment like of like how, how are people looking out for their neighbors despite them not being like high risk or like even though like obviously that's not, we've seen this more and more that that doesn't actually even apply that much. But like are we, yeah, I guess like it's just like another way of teaching us community care beyond our own well-being and around like communicating and communicating in the climate crisis. Like always say to people like everyone cares about different things, we all care about different things and therefore when we talk about an issue we need to have different ways of talking about it, they'll access different groups. And so this is one way you can be like I know that my uncle doesn't care about the climate crisis but I know that my uncle's doctor or something. Yeah, he cares about asking about something. Yeah, yeah, or I know that like my cousin is a health care assistant and they care about health because of that and they're all, or even just like yeah, or my, or this person has this, like and even away it's also a way in which through how you can also get them to care about racial injustice as well. There's so many, I think it's something that we need to access more within the movement because it acts as so different things like Leigh Atomas wrote an amazing article for Elle where she talks about how the like the words I can't read that were George Floyd's like last words before he died. Like those are so infastic for so many Black Americans in the US because they genuinely can't read not just because of systematic racism which is suffocating people but also because of pollution like the fact that the stature to see where they're before they're three times more likely to die of respiratory distress due to pollution. Like people genuinely can't breathe and like helping access to health care around like low income and then all of these things like that are just like piled onto. Yeah, people yeah. Yeah, it's just like health is something that we need to tackle in so many different ways and it was a louder tackle of things in so many different ways. I think it's quite hopeful in makeup and that like there's so much more that we could do to talk about it through that lens and tushua. Yeah and I think if people want to like learn more about this then if you read Lee's art school which is called I can't breathe and the inextricable link between climate and racial injustice is on L the Lancet Commission on Climate Health is really good as well. Too bad just Google environmental racism or like in Google your best friend. I mean that's one thing that I always think I'm like how people Google it. No they blow it all on Twitter first. Yeah yeah. We'll send both of us DMs. Sometimes I'm just like yeah if you really can't find it but also you know Google exists. What is something that like you would you know as like working in the medical field and you said like you had a lecture on climate and health and everything but like what would you like to see more in the medical profite like feel around like climate justice or like climate activism. And my so my lecture on climate health is actually from the global health policy school so I interclated into that basically means you take a year I've medicine to do a degree. I did mine in global health policy and that's how I learned about climate change and health and so that was me very much opting in like I found medical teaching is very much like we'll give you the bare minimum to be a doctor because there is to be fair there's a lot to learn to be a doctor like you have to know a lot of shit yeah shit done. So I think that I can understand why they give but then also like we need to know about these other things especially like not even just climate justice but like oppression and racial justice or like LGBT issues like all these things affect health care and I think that we need to talk about these things more for example in my first year of uni we had we had some lectures on social determinants of health we had one lecture on race I'm the only black student in my year and I remember even people weren't doing this I felt like people were staring at me. No people weren't. Yeah like because I was like oh shit I'm like there are people that I'm not the only person in my year but I'm the only black person in my year and like the lecture was very much like oh if anyone in the audience wants to give us your experience and it was like a group of 200 people I remember like first year me like sweating like oh my gosh this is and it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't that in my opinion and then we were our lecture on LGBT health was cancelled because of the strikes and never arranged again and I just all the readings because I care about this but it shows that like people shouldn't have to opt in to care about inequality and like around like just as well like people should be encouraged to learn about the staff like around inequalities and pollution and all these things that we should be encouraged to not only learn about the stuff but to advocate for it like I really think we need to move away from this idea that doctors shouldn't have opinions about things or shouldn't like have plus group opinions or shouldn't be involved in social injustice issues because we should be because if what we if we're meant to be people who care about health then we should care about the holisticness of health and and also there's social determinants of health and the pliscose terms of health and all these different things and I would just say like if anyone is like a health professional listening to this whatever kind of health professional you are like talk about these things with your colleagues more like encourage conversations about these things more that go beyond like how can we use last gloves or like which I know it's a no's and what I see but it's like there are big there big attains come yeah yeah yeah no I definitely I remember like last year my friend who just going to like medical school like one of her assignments was how to make a hospital more sustainable and but it was like looking at like plastic so like how to reduce straws she's like no especially in hospital context that's very easy yeah so it is and like like plastic is there for a reason and especially in a medical like especially in a hospital and I mean I think also like a lot of people for example during the pandemic now have started to use more plastic because of health reasons and like I would I'm like that is so fair like that's so I mean the amount of gloves and aprons I go through in a day is on like and I'm not even seeing that many people like I'm not even on a covid ward I'm just on a different ward and so I think that like you need to move away from that I think there's big big problems shouldn't shouldn't we like look at like okay why why are certain people like have like higher exposure to air pollution like like can't like shouldn't we look at like for example like okay like the the hospital is powered on like fossil fuels could we for example at least power some of it by renewable energy or like could we have our pension funds rather than like fossil industry or like you know unethical like like was it unethical something into like yeah sustainable like pensions or whatever and so we could like look at that and actually make our doctors like you know like can't like or like be like really trained in like racial justice and like LGBTQI plus like justice or something yeah like within the compulsory trainings I wish there are compulsory trainings that actually taught inspiration justice in a good like I wish it was compulsory for every health professional to have to do the main white supremacy course yeah and it was prioritized I think that issue is a lot of these things that are done they're done as like an optional actually don't have to do which means they kind of be with it do them that people you already care or you know gonna say yeah it means that there is like people who just don't get any education about it at all and it's like actually these things should be compulsory like it shouldn't be an optional extra it shouldn't be that we have some doctors who are anti racist and the rest of them are racist like yeah yeah yeah I know that because um on say your mind on the podcast um regulatory offer like I they they talked about like another like medical report recently because a lot of it's I think usually framed around like in the US you know like yeah even though like the UK has higher maternity rates yes in the UK you're five times more like he's died if you're black mother than a white mother whereas in the US you're four times more like he's died and yeah and they were like yeah and they were looking at like also like children like children's neglect after birth and like how like white children right after birth are looked at more like black children and like you know like that like these studies are just coming out which is disgusting in the first place that we're just looking at that's now um but also like why why aren't we talking about this more but we're not taught that as well this is nothing is like that's just there was I feel like this could be a whole other essay but I think people might find it interesting but one one thing as well is there was a study recently in the US where they talked to final year medical students and they asked them if they thought um black people have thicker skin like genuinely thicker skin and the majority of them said that they thought black people genuinely had thicker skin like biological thicker skin which is just eugenics and isn't true in case anyone's like oh that was true it's not true it's eugenics is eugenics and there's such an issue because so I spent my last year when I was doing global health policy um the first semester I pretty much only focused on racial inequality and health and within it I learned so much about how lots of doctors genuinely believe that black patients have a higher pain tolerance and therefore they'll give them meds much later or they'll let them experience pain for so much longer. Yeah and it's and but we never the thing is that I had to learn that for seeing that myself and other doctors don't learn that and not going to learn about any of these things. And also like you as a like as a black woman in medical school you're seeking that out one of the white counterparts doing yeah doing the same because one thing is even in this conversation I've kind of almost felt like I should apologise to be like oh I know the doctor's really overworked I'm like you know what actually I still have the time I still managed to do it so you can too like and I'm also impacting your mental health exactly exactly and I also it really pisses me off because I'm like I also shouldn't be the one having to do the work like I always think about this like I've read like so many books and anti-racism and and I'm like actually I know what he needs to read that like that's actually not for me like like imagine if the people you actually need to read these books read them that's one thing I think I remember I told one of my colleagues they need to read me in white supremacy and they look kind of shocked. I was like I'm going PPE where's the principle yeah or like oh I'm just so like I'm tired and I'm like yeah I'm saying but I still managed to learn about this stuff even though I don't need to and the reason you're fucking racism yeah exactly and also like oh like think about how much it impacts me to spend my spare time having to learn about how to defend myself yeah like that is f*ck like that is ah sorry that had to happen in your ears yeah that was yeah that is god I feel like yeah I feel like that was kind of a tangent but I feel I feel healed yeah but it just shows again like how all of that is is connected and it cannot like these single issues she's cut like they're not single issues and we need to stop looking at it as a single issue or like as like justice as like a add-on option yes because like even even if climate change wasn't related to climate crisis even if justice wasn't related obviously it's like still we should be doing it because like it's like the bare minimum of like humanity or like empathy we could be doing like it just shows you are human and the fact that it's connected is even more even more even more yeah like it's like I don't know we talk about like smoking cessation and stuff why don't we talk about like preventing the climate crisis that will be the biggest health issue that the world will face unless we do something now like why don't we talk about all these other things I don't get it personally it's because people have privilege and they want to ignore things to the privilege like yeah even I don't know kind of looping back but like not not having to learn about climate crisis is a huge privilege and not having to experience it is it's a fact I I understand like I have so privilege living where I do that every day I'm not having to be afraid of a fossil fuel industry like like directly harming me and I know that's a privilege therefore we need to act but like when it comes to racial justice like having be able to go through your life and learning about race and more than experiencing it is such a privilege and saying you're too tired to do the work is just it's not okay yeah just full stop it's not anything also we we should maybe expand the conversation for a lot of people who are like dealing with like eagerness or like they're like kind of like the waking up to for example climate crisis or something like use it in a way because if you're just waking up to this issue most likely you haven't been like super directly been suffering under it right so like then use that like kind of I guess like that inside or like that anxiety or the fear or like and like all of that you're facing like channel it in a way that like it's calling for action like doing action because if you are like new to the topic then you will have a lot more headspace and like a lot more ability to do things than people who are who are already suffering under because they they will be doing the work like they you know like for them they're already in survival mode like to have no choice they have no choice to opt out of the conversation so if you're new to like now opt in great you're here you know like let's get to work and like let not the like fear and the anxiety and the just like I guess also like some of the like the grief and everything all of that is valid but all of that must be channeled and it can be powerful like it can be really powerful to create change I think there's so much more that we can be doing and there are so many other ways we can be talking about this and there are ways in which we can channel our energy and there are ways in which we can use our privilege and I also recognise that like say that you've never acknowledged your privilege before like I know from some I have it just because I'm like I'm racialized as a background in the UK doesn't mean I don't have privilege and I know what it feels like to have to confront your privilege like I'm like skin so I like and I think in the last I think from my upbringing I wasn't as aware of that because I was only about a person there it's only been genuinely probably in the last couple years since I left where I grew up that I really had to confront my own privilege and recognise that and work with that and it's uncomfortable and it's like it makes your skin crawl a bit because you're just like and then and sometimes your brain can try and be defensive but it's like yeah recognise that all of those feelings are normal but don't give in to them and instead think how can I actually use this privilege for good how can I mobilise myself for good and I recognise I have this it might make me uncomfortable but it's benefited me in so many ways and so how can I expand and redistribute those benefits to other people yeah and like going beyond that like I have privilege for because that's actually like I know that kind of sometimes I can seem like a lot if you like you know if we complete like if we are just opening our eyes on the way but actually like it's not that hard to acknowledge like that you have privilege because it's not actually like doing anything about it so and yeah I guess I guess that's like something to like think about like when are you getting like super defensive of about something and like when are you like feeling really uncomfortable of something because that's usually like a sign of like you are you are benefiting in some way and like I think when we turn that around I was thinking about that even in our last episode when we talked about like allyship fatigue flipped around that would like mean it's okay for you to be fueled on oppression yes oh oh do you know what I mean yeah wow isn't that that's disturbing that's a word too because that is disturbing yeah it's disturbing and like that should make us uncomfortable yeah I do think about if if your comfortable in the system is it is currently your comfortable with oppression yeah and your comfortable that your position your comfortable the fact that your position is causing other people like is fueled upon other people's oppression and that is messed up great great great it's very grim and that doesn't say like we can like completely dismantle all of that in ourselves or in the world overnight like that's yeah that's not gonna happen but like I guess it's just like the urgency it's like shows and like but also it shows the potential is because I don't know like wouldn't like having everyone living their best lives and like being their fullest selves which is not based on oppression like would actually like mean like we have like so much more like creativity and like more like like so much more just like you know everyone is thriving like that would make our world so much better and I think that's like this like whole discussion like like this episode is kind of showing like the issue and like they could complete like catastrophe and like and but like and how serious these things are but also how much potential for like positive and like and how great is that like why would we not want that why yeah like yeah we should want that we should want basically we can't create a better world there's so much hope yeah just let them do it just get to work get to work yes yes thank you so much for listening to this episode and we hope you enjoyed it as usual um please make sure you press the subscribe button on whatever podcasting platform you're using to listen to this share this episode if you enjoyed it and you can tag out the x podcast on Instagram you can tag myself as well at McKayla Looch and trace and penis and yeah share this podcast with people that you know and learn and think that need to learn a little bit more or maybe you help out like hopefully yeah yeah seeing it and I was saying that we're always so much more hopeful on the podcast than we are in real life but hopefully that's happy we all need to we all need it we all need a little bit of a boost so yeah we hope this gave you a boost we hope you learned something shout out to all the patrons for supporting our work and enabling this podcast really now let you can sound about you yeah thank you so much and yeah um patreon like link is in the bios usual um all the sound magic and editing was all done by the wonderful filly moat um yeah thank you listening we're back next week with another episode wait you