Episode 138: Sensory sensitivities & Mad Max Fury Road'/

Doctor Billy, I love all of our sponsors. But this is one that I rely heavily on. We're proud to have today's episode sponsored by Victoria Coffey. Billy, and on heart, I absolutely swear on the first one. The first coffee I could ever recall was Victoria as a label. That's how long they've been around. Since '58 I learnt when we were actually learning. I've been learning with them. Yeah, the only disappointing thing is I didn't find them earlier. I didn't start drinking coffee until I was 30. But I cannot tackle a single day without a shot of coffee now. That's the first thing I have. That is my moment. Totally. There's a really beautiful self-kindness part of it, isn't it? A hundred percent. It's the thing that gets you going in the morning. So I absolutely rely on it. And they're our new sponsors. And they're a wonderful family business that is genuinely helping us. So it is great that we get to sponsor a support of a company of family business like Victoria. Yeah, and they've got, like, heaps of products. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting the family yet. But if that I'd buy me a coffee, I'd go, "Gladily come and meet them." But if you're into ground coffee, if you're into beans, capsules, instance, sachets, coffee bags, there's a format that works for all of you. This has shown some love to Victoria and Australian family business, helping fuel parents conversations and pop culture branding for a long, long time. Well, Billy, personally, this episode was absolutely mind-bending. I absolutely love it. I think people are going to learn a lot in it. Sensitivity's Mad Max Fury Road. Yes, I think people are about to listen to us unpack what our own experiences in a sensory world from our external and internal senses. What might be going on for some of the kids are having a bit of a hard time. And instead of, like, talking to them, trying to understand what their preferences are. So my mind is absolutely wearing after this. It was really eye-opening. Like, yeah, my mind-expanding stuff. Yeah, that's great. It's great, isn't it, at this age that we still haven't thought about this stuff? And this is important for everyone. This is not just autistic kids that did this. And we need to understand the kid before we get to the bit of what we do about it. So that's a really important message of it. But really excited. We've been leaning on the occupational therapist a bit lately, but the peds guys in this space and everyone else that has amazing knowledge in this, please send in your guidance, your reflection, your questions. Yep, can't wait for part two. And make sure you get over to Patreon as well. Yes. We've got a bunch of stuff coming through there. New content on top of everything else. Thanks, Nick. Thanks, Pilly. Hi, I'm Billy, a developmental pediatrician. And I'm Nick, a developing parent. We're going to use scenes to work on activities to talk about how we best support our kids. This is Bob Country Parenting. Hey, my little mother's small app here in Brussels. Take that on me. I don't want to see you in person. What? But we also like you. We should daddy. And what does it do? Just use your best judgment to get to this too. Good evening, Dr. Barry Garvey. How are you? I'm good, Nick. I am great both in hoodies. Yeah, don't know why I went sleeveless. Little winter. People who are listening and not watching are really missing out over here. Good guy, mate. Wow. Stop. Really? Yeah. A little bit. A lot. A lot. Big muscles, big muscles. Good. Good, but yeah, how cool is this hoodie? So this is, I was a keynote at Rezzy Rocks, which is a celebration of residential care workers. So a really important workforce. And it was amazing. And they gave me this hoodie that is designed. So they have this huge thing that one of the kids that spent time in residential care gets to designish. And this is the design. So it's really cool. It's a really cool story. Check it out. Actually, you can check it out online. And ask a really high resolution. Yeah, lots of residential care. Oh, yes. Yeah, so a good, very good call out. Residential care is for kids in out-of-home care. Right. So they go live in residential care because they're not able to be in their home. Makes total sense. Sorry. Because when you said it, I've got two parents who are in a nursing home. I thought it was like, why would you think? Yes, of course. If you run a conference, and look after workers in residential care, I'd feel it is weak and somehow fit at all. Especially if you have resources to help support. Would you rather thinking Nick was right that we're not the right fit for you? He's wrong. We've got that wrong. That's the right answer you have. Talk to Bill again. Yes, but very quickly, just very quickly. Yeah, I just wanted to give a shout because we don't enough to residential care workers. And the whole talk was about what understanding the experience of those kids and giving them a sensible longing. So it was really cool. Just like, I just want to say, it was like a talk I was really excited about for months and months. And then I just really loved doing it. It's got a bit emotional and surprisingly. You know, one letter that stays with me the most is the residential care worker with the kid and the. Yeah, it's probably about that. I'll talk. It's that it's, um, can't remember the episode sadly off the top of my head. And it is one of the. That's when I told you I didn't know the stuff was happening. So those guys are amazing. Just, yes, tremendous effort. Yeah. Hey, how's your weekbang? Pretty rough. This is, um, well, just to just, just to do this on my day. Because my day, I was on a plane, uh, at six a.m. that I was meant to be on, uh, the night before, but missed it because I was rolling through, um, security and found out that even though the gate was closed, skateboards need to be checked. So my amazing team without missing a beach and probably not that surprised, uh, rebuilt another flight for me for the first one that day. Did you stay at the airport? And I've rolled. No, we're not running. I think the Newcastle boat might close, but, um, but now I went home, um, and Rod back in. And this is my fifth podcast episode today. And as you know, final one. Final one. Well, you think so, but I've got a tight end because at 10 p.m. this evening, uh, which will make this a tight episode, I'm being interviewed by the Guardian for the UK. Oh. So, yes. Do they need me? Probably need more than either of us. Why? But funny. Because you're, you're a man that, uh, can't be contained to simple print and newspaper. Oh, thank you. Okay. Well said. Vision video. Someone's saying, "person, you're the best." Now, did you have a Grisbalber or a Winslow? Um, what do you have both? No, I don't think I've got a Winslow. I've been like doing some stuff. We haven't, which is going to be my Grisbal. I've had like zero childcare support for three weeks now. Um, and my Winslow has been just how amazing it is having some time. So, yeah, give me the great Carl. I don't object to fun. I love fun. In fact, I'm the Grand Funk Master of Fun. So, yeah, for anyone listening for the first time, this is where we reflect on celebrating something about our parenting, which we don't do enough over as a community. And so we're all modeling this. And, yeah, so I've just had, uh, my three cherubs. And it's been, um, it's been really wonderful, actually. So, it's been hard because there's so many channels going on. And I've found like a lot of the time of failing at two things, the social enterprise, um, and my kids. But there has been these beautiful moments of like just actually being with them. It's been really cool because one of my kids have an hard time and time with her has made things better. Good, because I've been able to just give her that. So, that's been cool. How about you, any Winslow's? Ah, no. Okay, let's come jump straight to the grizzly. Hey, don't let your mother smell that beer and your breath she'll take it out on me. This is the other part of the reflective practice that Billy and I do, which is we talk about things that haven't gone so well. And this is the grizz world. I've got a lot grizzly and I've got a heavy grizzly. I can't believe it. Oh, I'm not heavy. It's heavy enough. I'll probably laugh a little bit through it though. It's kind of, so, um, for lowered the colors recently. So, you know, bedtime never easy. Anyone's house. If it is someone send some advice down on that, I'll take it. And there's a lot of upstairs, downstairs. Kids come down, kids go back up. Third, fourth time. Kid comes down. You know, and I've already put the threat. Just put a threat in there. What is this threat? Wow, there's no craps tomorrow. This happens again. Your craps are good. They're good. Kids usually fall in. And they're like, my craps are really good, really good. Yeah, I've got the special pan and everything. Anyone. I, my kid comes downstairs, my eldest. And I like creeps down. And I'm like, well, I'm not sure what's going on. But I think that's actually it. She goes, no, no, it's all good. And I'm like, and they give you that. And I'm like, you give me that it's all good. And she goes, no, no, I'm just coming down to grab something for Ronnie. And it's all good. I'm like, I don't see how this is going to work. I match upstairs. She shoots up ahead of me to like send the warning to me. That's coming. I'm, I love you, you resty. I'm just like, I just don't see how you could possibly think we're getting craps tomorrow. And I think that's actually, you know what, guys? I'm done. That's it. I'm done. Terrible. Not, not too like yelling, yelling. I get up there and I'm like, I don't say this is going to work. Get in there. One of the kids is really upset, the little one. And Henry, he's in there doing the put down. I'm like, what is going on here? Don't say these craps. going to work. Winnie comes in, she goes, "I was getting her thing, her comforter, and now look at her. You're saying there's no cropes?" Winnie, it's not funny. Winnie gets upset, and she goes, "I thought you had a parenting podcast with like 800 listeners. I heard you were popular. I heard you were meant to be good at this." And I was like, "We knocked out of my sales." Henry had a half-sniggering, and she goes, "Good one, win." She's just like, "Wow, what a zinger." And both girls upset crying. One of the real tears, the other one tears, but not really feeling it, and it's just like, "I thought you were meant to be good at this. What's with all this podcast stuff?" And I was like, "Wow." It's probably the first time my kids bought up the sort of podcast in that way. We've been doing this nearly five years, and we don't really talk about it a whole lot. Some people with really nice people say, "They go, "What's that about?" I think they're a lot of the podcast, and they're like, "Okay, talk about it a little bit. We don't really talk about it." But it's just like, "I thought you were good at this." And I was like, "Oh," and I just said, "Well, it's actually not why I do the podcast." I was like, "I do it because I'm trying to get better at it." And you know that. And yeah, so it was kind of light, but it was not great. And Henry, they all just looked at me like, "Made this was under control." And you came in and did what you do and stuffed it up. Yeah, I'm sorry, mate. I'm not. No, no, no, no, no, no, sorry. This is the stuff. No, you don't, I'm packing too much, which is fair enough. Couple of corrections. You are good at it. Yeah, but it's not why I'm here. I'm not really. Yeah, the other correction. 800 listeners. We do that too. So I was like, "Well, I don't want to correct you. You're good at this, but there is 10 to 10 every day." But I'll take it on. So no, even with that. So, yeah, it was just like, I just, my point was, it was funny at that part, but like I just walked in and stuffed it up. Henry, it was looking at me going, "Made, he's going to get something to look after it because she's upset." And you've come in and done this and I'm like, "Yeah, right, I know." So I stuffed that bit up. So I go, this is the next off few nights later, I'm like, "I'll do the put down. Make up a little bit. You know, build that sort of muscle. There's a funny aside, I'm sitting in there and I'm like doing a Harry Potter. And Mum usually reads 15 or 20 pages. I can't read that many pages. I just sort of, you know, not off sometimes when I'm reading. I get two and a half pay. My daughter goes, "Dad, this is great. But I'm going to be honest. I'm going to get Mum to reread every page you've read. You don't do the voices." I'm like, "Honey, I don't know the characters." And she goes, "We know." And that was it. I felt bad. I thought you were about to say, I was stumbling through it too much. She was like, "It's not doing the voices." So, she said, "Hey, once again, they say you act." I went into that. But if you don't know Harry Potter, mate, you don't know nothing. Yeah, that's true. But, yeah. So, yeah, it's happening. Live stage, I'm at cardboard cut out next to you. I'll stop. So, yeah, you should lean on this. Yeah, okay. That's anyway. That one a few years. Anyway, we weren't even discussed today, and it's enough for this week. So, I've a couple for the next day. Oh, yeah. I was getting, yeah, I've got, give me two. Yeah, two. So, give me two. Okay, go. So, yeah, the. I prefer I'll just do them in chronological order. I was on National New Zealand radio. Oh, yeah. They're like, "What time legs for you?" I'm like, "Well, I've got three kids. I know time." But we're so big to time. And I did the classic setup where I was like, full disclosure, streets, these lollies, lollies that take time to weeks. You know, on the ground, they're in this room. The door's closed. Babies in the coughs. You can see this green. Not getting the lollies. Lots of toys in there with their contents. They gave the five-year-old the responsibility of making sure that she's okay for the next half hour. He said, "If you're all staying here and you can't let me do this for 30 minutes, there'll be, you know, rainbows with pots of gold in it." See you made a deal. Yeah, I made a deal. Okay. Well, that's good. Connect with the journalist. Hey, yep. Great. I love the opportunity. Yep. More than happy to speak about this, you know, the books and the podcast and all the other work we do at Gotting Home Lines. I can one minute into the 30 minutes when my son comes out. Dad, dad, dad, dad. I was legit. I don't think I've ever done this. Like, maybe in a work call or something. I was avoiding him. I was trying to dodge him. I was like, yeah, just pushing it away. And then he's on a noisy bike following me and everything. And then I just like, five minutes in and answering these like complex questions about kids' mental health. I just leaned into it and I did it with them. So, turned this green off, but I was in there and I was like answering all these complex questions while I'm wiping a kid's bum while I'm changing. No, just audio. But I'm literally doing all this stuff while I'm like, you know, smart enough not to flush the toilet, but I'm literally bleeding over a kid wiping at a bum while I was speaking to like, and, you know, national. It's awfully echoey in there, Billy. Yeah. It's going through one of my vast hallways. Yeah, there's a very funny TV series, which any listeners know that it's telling what it is. So, this we got what it was where it's like some hack, um, Australian character. And he's taking a phone call from the toilet. And he's like, hang on a second. I just got a dropper. Some cops have gone into a bottle of water. He's taking the call from the toilet. Something for the 90s. Just throw it up like that 30-year-old bit before me. So, I'm literally doing that. And I was just like far out. I just, you know, completely failed. And of course, at the end of it, they're like, can we have the treats now? Fight the promises, because they don't think it's gone bad. The other one was I reckon in the next day. I had a meeting and rushed to soccer. The first time I've ever done soccer with them, I'm like, what's going on? They're doing call grass office. It's amazing. It's like, you have all central coast. Can play soccer. Yeah, so I'm in the right place. It's on the right place for me. No, no, no, it's gone like that. I'm left footed. Oh, you keep some quits. No, no, no, no, no. Stop. That jar. The children. Tell me. Yeah. So, anyway, so I'm like, I want to be a part of this. This is important to lean in. So, I was in a meeting with a team, quickly shot out, thought out enough time. Once again, five-year-old helped me dress the three-year-old. So I roll in. I'll shoot down on, quickly get the shoes on, get in the car, guys. Hey, guys, this is not good. Maybe we can't do soccer. We can't get in the car, quick enough, and all this stuff, given the two-minute window to get ready, because I've run the whole meeting. Get there. 15 minutes late. It's a 40-minute class. 15 minutes late. Pull up right out the front. There's all these kids, all these parents, the coach. I'm right in the car at the front. Go, I'm click the two bigger kids and go around to get hiding and strapper onto me. Charlie, he hasn't got out of the car for some reason. Lift him out. He's in a jumper. It's cold. Peashoot, jump, past shoes. No, socks, jocks. No pants, no shorts. I understand what I can't be angry at the five-year-old. You're going to do the EVM, you're like, you're stuck, there's ups. I'm in front of everyone. I had to scramble through with a kid on the hood of the car in jocks and find some shorts. Thank God, there were some shorts that were like, you know, went from the ocean or something. I made it into the trees. It's nice. Of course, I roll over. I apologize, everything like that, do the whole thing. Yeah, lovely coach. Love the podcast. Of course you do. Nice humbling experience, but yeah, and I've had many more, but that's just two of them. Just two of them were pretty grisys. Yeah, they're thick and fast, aren't they? Yes, I'm getting a lot at the moment, but it's a muscle that I haven't flexed enough, so it's been good getting some time in. We don't, well, thank you. Just feel my north star, mate. Stop. Any other announcements for we kick in? Oh, I'll go over to Patron. Like, we're going to start doing one more there, because it's a really rich, important part of the community. Any other announcements? Just one quickly on Patreon. Everything in Patreon is free. It's an option. It's an option, there's levels. Yes, there's levels. Like, there's a lot of stuff you get for free, and there's levels that we're building out to try and essentially make this not just a hobby that is, yeah, it just funds everything. All the funds, like all the funds in the merch. You don't talk about the merch enough. The merch, the merch, and we look like we're going to be able to sell books, which will be as if you buy them through guiding growing minds. The profits get back to all the sales, goes back to guiding growing minds and all this stuff we do in the community. So we have a bit of a sustainability issue that we're trying to resolve, and just really appreciate all the amazing corporations and orgs that come in and want to do stuff with us. So, so much opportunity, we're just trying to find the right mix and, um, speaking of which, which is going to be on topic, just the amazing Victoria. But we'll get to it, because it's going to be on topic. Now, you don't know the topic, but you do know the movie. Damn sure, no, the movie. Modern Australia. Yeah. And a few production challenges. Did they? Yeah, I feel like you know more than I do. I love it, man. Mad Max Fury Road. Yeah. I imagine you're a hearty fan. I'm an absolute hearty fan. You know, I'm a hearty fan. Love him. Do you like, um, what's the one, the brothers that wrestle? Oh, the MMA one. Um, warriors? Yeah. Warrior. Got warriors. Love that's great. Yeah. McNulty. Dad and Joel. Edgerton. Yeah, Joel. Edgerton. He's excellent in all. Yeah, massive hearty fan. Yeah. Love to made him. He does this really cool thing, which I would love to do, but I have, you know, no. profile to do it. But he reads children's books. Yeah, yeah, you have to do that. I could all right, if I get paid to read children's books, don't worry about guiding their own minds. They're about clinic. Started YouTube page. Yeah, but I would love to do it. Yeah, I'd like to meet him. Yeah, I'd love to meet him. And Tully's, I'm a massive fan of as well. So he's my incredible character. Yes. Amazing character. Hard as nails. Yeah, and what have you got in this movie? What do you mean? Well, what do you know about it? Like what? Well, yeah. So a couple of things, I know about it. Just it was filmed. Broken Hill, but they had they ran into a production problem where it rained like it didn't ever, I could have this wrong. It rained like it had never rained before and turned the orange sand into a green. Yeah. That's a lot of ice. Yeah. And it actually liked nothing else. It grew grass like nothing else. They ended up having to change the location. I quit making this up. I don't think I am. No, because I didn't research. I just know this from speaking chatting to people they're like, yeah, no, that's a change of location. I think they're not going overseas to do it. No, parts of it. I might know that wrong. So they've grew bumsy, but one thing I do not have wrong. Do you know who is nearly cast as the man of gas town? The people. Yes. I don't know who you're chatting now. No, no, I don't know. I don't know who the actor. I know the cast. You're talking about who they nearly cast. Bert Newton. Well, that could actually see it. That's amazing. Yeah. Because remember there was Wolf Creek. There was a classic Australian actor that everyone loved. Who was his name? And he played the baddie of Wolf Creek. And it was like this amazing transformation of an actor. We'd never seen a part like that before. So I could totally see. But we've never seen Bert. I mean, I've never said he does character and you know, it's variety show man and host. Probably overseas, I don't know but you'd need, but it'd be like trying to cast someone like really turning up in a character that you would not possibly ever picture. Yeah, which there were Australian actors throughout that movie. I hate to see that. I hate to see the women. What are they called? The ladies? Other mothers. Yeah. Yeah. Most of the mothers were Aussie. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. But other roles as well. No, I mean girls. Yes. Yeah, I forgot the shoes in it. Yeah. Until the end. Yeah. And then obviously Fioriosa. Chris Amesworth. Yeah. You know, like in a really different role that he hadn't played before. Yeah. So you're a fan of that movie, aren't you? Fioriosa. Yeah. Like that too. Yeah. I really like Fiori Road. Yeah. Me too. It's awesome. The whole aesthetic. I think it's originally what Miller intended. That's what he wanted the original ones to be and he was like finally had the technology production to go back and actually do it. Yeah. So what is what is a movie about like the clue that we used is just how basic applaud it is. It's like run away, run back. It's this desire to reach this to reach home. To be fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To go back to the sanctuary. To escape. That's fair. To escape. You know, there's almost like this. I was thinking about it. There's almost like this like Troy component to it, isn't it? Of like flying with a damsel, you know, and they're being pursued. Yep. You know, and then a last stand. But what's the interesting thing about this is this movie such a sensory experience, you know, it's like almost overwhelming. It's like it never stops. So often movies will have a bit that doesn't have a lot of plot. It's just exciting, which is an action scene or a chase. And then obviously this movie is like what if the whole movie's a chase? Isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Go all the way. Yep. There's a whole time. Yeah. And there's this amazing thing and there's an amazing experience as well from the arc of the characters because there's so much happening, but there's not a lot of talking. That's true. Yep. Doesn't say too good. Yeah. Yeah. He does. He does. I forget what I'm saying. But yes, it's bugger all. Yeah. Because what's going on? Why is Max not talking? Because he is just along for the ride a bit. He survived. Yeah. Isn't he? Oh, yeah. Particularly the start. Love that has chained up. He's like skate every two months and getting pulled down. Yep. Yeah. Constantly under the pump. It's just in survival mode the whole time. Yeah. Finally gets on with Furio soon. Then it's like still survival mode. This is only way out. Do you know something supposedly changes on the red this afterwards that when he finally start working together, the music starts like you hear the first chord or something like that. So there's been really a radic sounds all that time and all over the place. And then when he finally starts driving the Rick and they connect and they're on the same page. The music gets in sync or there's synchrony. Like it's this really cool thing about like yeah, just the journey and how the journey changes once they find each other and they connect. How good's the war rig? Yeah. Just amazing. The scene's like a cinematic experience of it. So what is that? There's this sound isn't there? Yeah. So yeah, there's music and explosions, lighting, violence and clashing and everything and then there's the visuals isn't there? Yep. So there's like these dramatic visuals are going into the sandstorm and there's the fire through the valley. Explosions. Yeah. Pain. There's so much pain. Physical injury and death. Witness me. So all these, yeah, witness me. So what's like, what's witness me? It's like look at my sacrifice. Is that kind of it? Yeah. It's seen me trying to get to Valhalla. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, he saw me. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when he's like, when I can't remember his name, but he doesn't. Nucks? Yeah. Yeah. Nucks. I think NUX. I think you might be right. And he realizes that Joe Immortal or whatever his name is. Immortal Joe has seen him and not chosen him. Yep. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. He slips. He's like, I'm going to go get them. I'm going to be the savior. And he's like, I'll carry you through the gates of Valhalla or whatever. And then he slips and he just keeps up on him. Yep. So as you failed, I'm out of here. And he moves on and he's crushed, isn't he? Yep. Because he's like the identity I was seeking to be seen, to be witness, to be part of it. That was going to, you know, and he talks about what does he call him? He's like his tumor. He's got a name for his tumor that's going to kill him because there are half-lifes. Yep. And that's the only way I can actually, you know, get validation of who they are and succeed is when they do that, make this ultimate sacrifice. And so there's this real like hierarchical system that exists in us where there's, you know, those with power that are above everyone else and they have the nutrition, they have the water, they have the fuel, they have the power. And then there's everyone else. Yeah. There's just caught up in this awful dry, arid, overstimulating sensory experience, isn't it? Yes. What's the topic? Sensory sensibilities. So which we haven't spoken about yet, but it's just so relevant for like all of the kids in ourselves. And so what we're going to talk about is like how do we best understand what's happening to our nervous system in that space? How can it be an explanation for where success is possible for our kids, whether barriers that are blocking them, that are impacting their negative experience from something that means their sensory experience means they can't succeed in an environment or it's limiting their capacity to use higher functioning parts of brain, like speaking, like talking. Yep. So I'm actively drawing this in. Is there a difference between sensitivity and a sensory kid? Yeah. Tell me more about me, man. So we talk about sensitive temperament. Great. Yes. Yeah. Is it something to do with like, yeah, I think they're different? So different sensitive temperament is like your emotional sensitivity. What I'm talking about is form with respect to them. Yeah. Like what are your senses? What are your external senses? Yeah. Touch, smell, start, airing, taste, taste. Yeah. How much are you aware of that experience you're having and the impact it's having on how well you're functioning? Not really? I mean, I don't think I. What about if you think about it right now? What do you notice right now? If I'm like, be aware of your external environment. It's a bit cold. Yep. It's hot under the desk. Do you think that's impacting you? Yeah, it would be. Yeah, tell me why. And how? If it's cold, more tense. Yeah. So we joke. Last time we were here that we were freezing. Yeah. Oh, shivering. The teeth were chattering. Yeah, they were. So that's a really good example of my sensory experience impacting my ability to perform well. Okay. If I was in that environment every day and really cold. Gotcha. So a little baby, we're like so in tune with that, aren't we? Yep. Yep. Yep. But like a really good example of EV, doesn't wear pants. Just tades wearing pants. Refugees to wear pants. Doesn't matter how cold it is. Got it. Because that sensory experience on a thighs. On a thighs. Gotcha. Is worse for her than being cold. Okay. So she's got a sensory sensitivity. Yeah. A sensitivity to tactile sensation on that. So touch, external stimuli. That's one of the five is touch. Of course. Does this evolve? Are you born? Is she born with that? Can she ask about it? Great question. Yes. And it changes as well. What are sensory sensitivities? Yeah. But yes, think about it. Let's start a bit simpler. When you're having food, how aware of you of that sensory experience? Yeah. It's a whole cold. What else? Spicey. Yeah. It's salty. Does it taste good? Is it enjoyable? Yeah. So if you're really enjoying food, what do you do? Particularly me. Yeah. On the label, we're kind of that's boring. But yeah. What do you. If I'm enjoying it, eat more of it. What else has happened in your world? I'm happy. Yeah. You probably focused on it, aren't you? Lays are focused, yeah. So most of my meals I have standing. Like, I don't sit down much like, and that's not a play the violin. That's just even if I've got time, I'll often stand, because I've probably been doing something else. So, I'm not actually paying attention to my world. - Yep. - I'm not actually sitting there enjoying it, eating it, noticing it, taking it in. - Yep. - I'm just like, this is kind of in my way. - Oh, you're like an A to B, A to. - Yeah. - Sustons. - Exactly. I see it as that. - So, not a sensory experience. - Cooking the airport. - Yeah. - Yes. - Yeah, the beautiful, for the listeners, the beautiful Steph Close Meath. I was one of her podcasts this morning, and she texted me and said, "Hey, I'll get you some food." And so, I had this food waiting for me when I got there. And she's like, "I just remember on PCP, "you mentioned that often the first thing you'll eat in a day "is a cookie in an airport." And it's true. And then, amazing, Laura Henshaw, you've got to make just a phenomenal human, was then like, when I came out of the podcast, she's like, "I'll let me help you with all the stuff "that you're carrying," and all this stuff, just two great humans that were like, once again, aware of my sensory experience, and saw that I was carrying way too much stuff, and were like, "Let me help you." And it's a really important thing about noticing and trying to be in tune of this sensory experience that kids we care for, and being like, "Where are you overwhelmed?" I could force you to be like, "It's too cold, we're pans." But I shouldn't. I should be in tune with what a sensory experience is, and support her in that. - Just gonna ask some questions. Is it neurodivergence? - Great question. - So, can you have, my point is, can you have sensory, when does it become sensory? - So, it's all sensory. My point is our experience to the world of sensory. So, external senses, five of us just talk about internal senses, interception, what's going on for me? - A motion. - I feel tired, like I feel like, you know, I feel a bit bloated at the moment, and there's a fullness, there's getting aware of like, my bowels, my body temperature, my fatigue. You know, when you think about it, when we exercise, there's a good muscle fatigue, and we're like a no-boy, there's a good one, yes. And then there's like, I'm so exhausted, my eyes are heavy. That's a sensory experience that is signaling to your body in your headrest. - Gotcha. - You know, and being in tune about that, and it's not so much one is bad or one is good. It's about all of them as signals that are trying to tell me how I'm experiencing the world. - So, what you're talking about here, sensory, it's very physical. - Yeah, very physical. - It's not emotional, mental. - No, but like, it's in tune with like, there is not this division that we used to think maybe decades ago, like there's the mind and there's the body. - Yeah, okay. - Like a simple explanation of it. - No, no, you're not. But there's this like, we know that the brain gut access, for example, AXIS is such an in-tune part of our microbiome and all that stuff, and that's where stress manifests for me. - Yes. - Stress manifests in my gut, and that's where I feel it, that's where I sense it. And then you combine that with how bad my diet is and how food just fits in somewhere. I set myself up for it to go the other way back as well. You know, feeling hungry all day, and then I like, we'll hoard each one day in one moment in the day where I find a gap, and then that'll cause me fatigue and stress and overwhelm and bloating. And so, our sensory experience is just a really interesting one that I don't think I'm most of us and not in tune with what our sensory preferences are. - I wouldn't know when my kids eat that. I'd have to think about it. - We just should think about it. It's a really cool opportunity to think about it. And think about it. Well, what is, 'cause I know we share this. What's a positive sensory experience that not to have too bits of toilet humor in a single episode, going to the bathroom. We're used to share early in the morning in Melbourne. (laughing) What would we go and do? - We're going to have a coffee from where, from a particular place that the coffee was excellent. And it was, yes, it was cleansing. - Last time, you know. - Yes, but what is coffee to you? - Like, I'm being gentle. - Oh, yes, no. - This is Victoria is a genuine, amazing sponsor that are getting behind us and supporting us in a more meaningful way than just a transactional sponsor this minute. - Yeah, yeah. It is my oxygen mask. - Why? 'Cause what about it? - Oh, it feels amazing. - It feels amazing to drink that has caffeine in it. - No, no, it's like, it's comforting. It's known. I know what it'll do. It makes me feel great. Gives me that bit of buzz first thing in the morning. - Yeah, and it gets me going. It's ritual. - Like a bag. - It's beautiful. I need to have a listen. - Yeah, need to have a listen. Yeah, need to have a listen. I'm just like I make a rule, I can't be on the laptop, so sometimes we're checking in, like if one of the kids has a wake up with them and I sit there and just enjoy that space and that sensory experience of having that coffee. And then, and I can actually tell, depending I will shift from like crystals to stovetop to depending on how much space I have for it, but I always make space no matter how busy I am to have that 5-10 minutes of a sensory experience when my body is rested calm. - Totally. - Not moving and I'm just enjoying, and that's probably the only thing I do it with. It sounds like I'm just saying this because they're a sponsor, but I'm going to do that with food. - I think most people are really taking a coffee. - Yeah, but being present with it and being aware of your sensory experience in that moment. - Yeah, no, I need it. - So, I jumped on one question before we did an answer. - Is it neurodivergence? - So, yes, a great question. - I'm not over. - Oh, stop. - So, no, no, this is great. There's a breadth of neurodivergence, and what is this, this has been unfair, and what is neurodivergence? - neurodivergence, are people experienced the world a little bit differently, if you have a sensitivity neurodivergence or have beautiful, you experience the world differently? - And that's all it is real. - Yeah, neuro. - Your brain, your neurological experience, your sensations. - Different. - Different. - Different to how I experience it. - Different. - And so, an often, like it's important, can be hard, can be powerful, especially in the minds of harness. - Right, environment. - Beautiful. - And so, it is a really interesting thing to think about this, and we know that if I'm being the specialist clinician, then a part of diagnostic criteria is that things like autism, there is often a sensory experience that impacts their functioning, repetitive, restrictive behaviours. They're what we call class to be, symptoms, cluster A, symptoms of autism, our social communication capacity, struggle with nonverbal gestures, struggle with picking up social cues, neurotypical, all the components of that, you know, social communication deficits. This is what the clinical deficit- - Deficitological-based stuff. - Class to B is repetitive, restrictive behaviours. I struggle with transitions. I'm overwhelmed by sensory experiences. I seek sensory experiences out. I have to line up certain toys. I have to do something over and over again. Stimming. - Stimming is a good example of it. - Stimming and remembering, stemming can be a healthy, rich experience, expression of joy, way that someone comes and throws down and stuff like that. And the whole gamut outside of neurodiversity is not about changing the sensory experience of a kid, it's about harnessing it. - Harnessing it or making accommodation for it. - So what? - Both. - What are your sensory preferences? What are the sensations that you like? - I know what I don't like. People touch them with four arms. It's really weird. Never liked that. I did this far into it. Never liked that. - How do you feel about touch in other places? - I think so. - I really like touch. I really like affection. I have enough physical affection in my life. So I seek it out. But even within that, there's a complexity. But a lot of the kids, especially autistic kids, people go, they hate touch. You know, often what they hate is unexpected touch. - Got it. - Touch that's not gentle, slow, purposeful, such as like deep massage. A lot of autistic kids love deep massage. - Yep, I know. - Yeah. - Yeah, I know someone glistening their little arms massage. - Why? - Because it's that sensory preference. And there's this thing called, let me see if I can remember it. Dunns model of sensory processing. This is occupational therapy territory as well. I've been getting some amazing feedback and I want more in reflection from these guys that looks at how what are the profile of someone from a sensory perspective. And this is just helpful for us to try and unlock what is going on for a kid or ourselves in the sensory world. Now there's four different types. - Okay, hit me. - So there is high threshold, low threshold. So high threshold means it takes a lot for you to notice. Low threshold means it doesn't take much for you to notice a sensory experience. - So you have a low threshold for touch on your forearms. - Yeah. - Someone who has a high threshold might not notice that something is on their face. - Got it. - That a really loud noise is going on in the background. - But someone's calling out there now. - And the parents are like, Nick, I have quite been calling you for 10 minutes. - Yeah. - The kid's actually not ignoring you. They've just got a high threshold for that part of their sensory world. - So do you want to be in the middle? - You don't want to be in the middle. - You want people to just understand and be able to know what your forearms are like. - He's middle way for you. - Yeah. So yeah, we'll talk about that. - Okay, sorry. - We'll get to the bit. - No, it's amazing. - Talk about this. - So high threshold, low threshold. - And neither one is better than the other. - Yeah, yeah. - They can both be functional and dysfunctional. - Got it. - And then there is your response, which is active or passive. So someone who has a high threshold and an active response is a sensory seeker. - So they want you to be in the middle. a lot of sensation, they need a lot of sensation. I like active, I like movement, I like touch, I like taste, I like holding things, throwing things, looking things in little kids, in little toddlers biting things, squeezing things, seeing lots of things, spinning things, and this is off an autism. Okay. Because they have a high threshold, they want lots of stimulus, they want lots of sensation coming into the world and they actively seek it out. Okay. Now if you have a low threshold, what does that look like? I'm that buzzing, I can't handle it. You can't even hear it, but I bet you can now. This is the spectrum you're talking about. Yeah. So now can you hear that buzzing? So you can't even hear it, or I can hear it. No, there's a buzzing coming from far away. Wow. That's probably a light fixture or something that's just I can, but I can ignore it. It's not impacting me. I had to think what I did quickly then is I scan my environment for a sensory perspective. I might be like, this chair is pressing into my leg. Now you probably not even aware of where the chair is touching your legs. Yeah. So you have a high threshold for that. If I was like, I can't sit on this chair because of how much it's pressing into my leg, that's a low threshold. Right. And now if you're a sensory avoider, you are active in your response because you go away from all those things. You wouldn't see it. I can't be in a supermarket because I'm centrally overwhelmed. God, that makes sense. No, that makes sense. So the sensory seeker, the sensory avoider, high threshold, low threshold, both are active. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. That's two. So then you have kids with a high threshold once again. So the high threshold, but they're passive. So they stay in the space. So they're not aware of what's going on. They're not aware of like this food on their face that they're really hot, that they're actually exhausted, that things are touching them and all those things, but they just stay there. Is they're passive? Yep. And then you have the low threshold, passive. So this is way too much for me, but I stay here and get emotionally overwhelmed. Why do they stay? Because they don't have their responsiveness. They're not active responders to that. So does that make sense? So there's like these four, yeah, there's these four processes of how they respond and that last one is really about low registration. They don't register the world. Got it. Yeah. So it makes sense. My mind doesn't kind of like I'm trying to get my no, explanations golden, mate. I just can't. Yeah. It's just even in explaining it. I'm like, so yeah. So think about the two dynamics, two dynamics. Yep. The threshold is high. Yep. It takes a lot for me to notice something. Yep. Or low. It doesn't take much for me to notice something, an active response and a passive response. So yeah, the low registration is that I have a high threshold. Sorry. And I'm passive. I will stay there. Okay. You know, it takes a lot. And so thinking about where the dynamic exists across the spectrum for our kids is a really important part of it. Yeah. So when you use the word spectrum, are you talking about spectrum? Sorry, not autism spectrum. So it's the spectrum across that of the behavioral response they have. They're actively, they change the sensory experience they're having. Got it over high threshold. I go towards sensory experiences. I have a low threshold. I move away from them. Yeah. Does that make sense? Like sensory speaking and sensory avoiding. Often the kids are meeting clinic. Whereas the kids that will stay there, the low registration kid is like the kid who you're calling out to constantly. They just stay in that environment, not being aware of the sensory things that are in their world. They don't do anything about it. Because they're not aware of how to impact them. They don't know how to impact. Yeah. That's a lot of kids in environments. Yeah. But it's also us when you think about it. It's a lot of us because we just cope. Yeah. We just don't use to being in tune with what's happening to your body. Yeah. Yeah. I can't tell if I'm cold hungry or tired. Yeah. But if you start noticing it now, and there would be really cool activity if between now and the next week you think about what's going on for you in your sensory world. Yes. From those external sensors. Yes. Well, it's funny. I feel like you do have some things like this. You notice the visual aspects of your world better than I do. I just move through it. Whereas even when you're in Newcastle, you're like, how beautiful is that architecture? Yeah. So that's you being aware of your sensory experience. And you would probably have a lower threshold than me. And you seek it out. So you're active. Whereas there's other elements of your sensory world where you're probably not as in tune with it. Yeah. Tell me. And you're passive. What are you saying? Well, even what do you like? What are your preferences? You've told us around touch. I like touch. It's not my forearm. What do you think about? Like what do you like in sound? What's a noisy environment like for you? What do you like enough foodie? No, no. Like in the kitchen. Harbwood floors. Yeah. Steiner to loud. Yeah. And so what is it? Yeah. So we'll leave the kitchen after dinner. It sounds bad. What's that? It's active. Your behavioural response is active. Yeah. It's just too much. So possibly low threshold. Active. Sensory avoid. And that capacity in that environment. What does it do to you if you have to stay in it? Stress. I mean, I get that green because then it starts impacting your emotional capacity. And that's the bit that really matters. Is that if you are not getting your sensory sensitivities needs mess, then it will often lead to exhaustion, emotional dysregulation, disconnection, frustration. And you'll sometimes just blunt it out. And so this is where a lot of the harmful stuff comes in. It was like, no, no, you're going to be like this in this environment. So often the kid who gets distracted by everything in the environment, that's a sensory thing that's like, spoke about this years ago on the podcast with the phoning email app. But the idea of like every on with ADHD should sit up the front of the class. Or do you know one thing like? Tell me. Thinking we've got to know the kid really well before we decide what interventions are from a sensory perspective. And what we see unfortunately is a lot of kids either get told, no, you can't fidget. You can't have that thing. You can't like you are sensory seeking out touch and tactile element of your world that will help you regulation. We take that away from kids and say, no, you can't do that in class. Those are the rules. The thing about actually how do we do that in a way that doesn't disrupt the environment, but helps you be performing at a really high level because your sensory needs are being met or we just go, you're playing up headphones, earmuffs. So we don't actually, we haven't understood the kid. New York's personal therapist do these amazing sensory profiles. They do it. Yeah. They do a lot of red hundreds of them. And it is the idea of like sensory seeking, like low registration, you know sensory avoiding all that kind of stuff. But then they kind of say, and this is how we're going to help this kid now. But you can't just jump to the bit of like, let's put earmuffs on. Let's do this. Let's do a weighted blanket, for example. If you know weighted blankets are a good example, that is a sensory seeker. Love. Yeah. So I need a lot of touch. I need a lot of pressure. I need a lot of that on me to feel and I'm like this to a certain, I cannot sleep no matter how hot it is without a sheet on me, without a donor on me. I could not lie in the middle of the Amazon just on the flash comfortable bed because I need that touch. Yes. Therefore a lot of kids that touch needs to be way more than just a normal donor. It needs to be a heavy weighted blanket, but you have to understand the sensory profile and sensory needs and sensory preferences of the kid before you decide it's earmuffs, it's sensory blanket. Question around process. You might be like, why are you asking this? I ask it. Diagnosing if a kid has sensitivity does that start with someone like you or does it start with an OT or get referred to an OT? I'm just curious. So you can both, like my preference, obviously I'm biased as a developmental pediatrician doing a developmental assessment that holistically looks at just child, their environment, their journey, their story. God, who is around them? What are we worried about? How they're doing? Well, that's tough, but the OT's can be phenomenal as well. The OT's the way that I think about it is OT's held this amazing ability to understand our emotional experience from our sensory interactions with the world, and that can be emotional regulation, that can be toilet training. It can be like, how do you know a kid's ready? It's often their sensory experience at cognitive capacity. It's literally toilet training like an awareness of that their bowels are full and need to be empty. And it's a sensory experience that you will go through every day. You will be checking constantly, subconsciously. I can see that in the past room. Yeah, I know to go. Yeah, so it's a really interesting thing about what is that process like? And instead of saying does the kid have a sensory problem, it's what sensory experience does this kid need to do well in the world? Yeah. And what are their preferences? Oh, but it is. I don't know anything. We'll just notice between now and the next episode. Yes, I will think about just as you move through the world, what is your sensory experience? I've got something to tell you. What do you have a high threshold? I think a low threshold, but also think about it for the kids. I'm trying to think about for the kids. I'm like, I've got a handle on myself first, but this makes sense. I've got to explain it. I've started through a bit the fifth podcast of the day. But you've stumbled through it. The occupational therapists will be phenomenal in this space. So we want to, like, we've had some amazing input on our flexion episodes, but it'd be really cool if the OTs can lean in again. I love meeting the OTs at live shows, Billy. Yeah, they all have the same. Amazing. But yeah, and so we want like questions about this, but I want reflections about sensory world. Yes, so like heaps of stuff like that. But yes, the scene. So this is the only bit from a sensory experience that is different. This is, they're going back. They blocked the passage. They're gone. We've had the biggest scene of like explosions and pressure and what's going to happen and it's been sensory overwhelming. And this is the first moment of calm that we see where furiosa looks like she's going to die. She's inhaling blood onto her lungs. She's got a pneumothorax and a hemothoraxi and this is testing my medical knowledge. I'm just trying to remember the differentiation between a hemothorax and pneumothoraxis, air or blood going into her lung cavity and you'll see she's breathing like that and he relieves her for those cutting out of the scene. He puts a knife into a lever. But just try and be really in tune with the sensory experience of this scene. Knowing the rest of the movie is really overwhelming. And just pay attention to what happens in this scene of what you hear. Why is she making that noise? She's pumping air into her chest cavity. She's collapsing her lungs. One breath at a time. I know. I am so sorry. No, I know. Put her, rest her down. Hey. Hey. She's oxygenated, trained over blood. Hold this. That's a looking needle. Come on. I think this is it. Keep her awake. Here you are, Zah. Okay, that's not what you're talking about. Sorry. There you go, okay. Max. My name is Max. That's my name. How's your fine now? What was that experience like? What did you notice? He was quite comforting. Why was he comforting? What about it was comforting? He was softly spoken, which he had been like mumble. There's almost like a, is there a word, timber or whatever it was, voice like he's you can really hear every bit of it. That's coming through. He got a voice, doesn't he? Yes. He got a real voice, doesn't he? I remember that in common. It doesn't stop there. But it is, isn't it? And it's funny, isn't it? Because there's another powerful part of this movie where she realises home is gone and she's never going to see it and she screams. But here she whispers. And like he physically connects with her, doesn't he? Like he physically connects. Yeah, he's IV line. Like they've been using him as a blood donation. And he takes it, realizes she's losing blood and connects to her and gives her what her needs are through touch, through comfort, there's even pain in it at the start where he clears the pneumothorax. You hear the, the thrill of the knife and going and the pain, the gas, he says, sorry, connects with her and then he holds it, doesn't he? It does the first time we see any gentle, grace, touch, comfort, kindness is this scene. And it's this beautiful, compassionate moment that so much of it is bound in a chaotic sensory world of storm. It is this little moment of connection. And that's the beautiful thing about what this episode hopefully is helping us start to think about is how do we connect and create sanctuaries and calms and harbors in the storm for the sensory world that our kids live in by understanding what they need from us. So much stimulation, isn't there? Yeah, like a lot of the world is overstimulating, whether it's all the screens and it's not about get off your phone. No, no. It's about why are you seeking out that sensation because there's another sensory experience that's happening in your world because that's what your preference is because you're overwhelmed with fatigue. Often we will go to sensations just because they're repetitive and comfortable and expected and we know them well, they're well worn. But finding ones like, yeah, we'll get into the deep stuff because there's some really deep heavy stuff that it's wrong to end on. I cut a lot of the relief that comes from some of the most destructive sensory things that we see kids do to themselves is because I need the pressure out of my system and that self-harm. And so thinking about, like, what is going on in a few and what are your sensory experiences? Like, and it's not about stop doing that. It's about, there's something about that and a lot of kids who have, you know, biting behaviors we heard about in the last reflection. The dad was like, "I dig my hands into the dummy so that it hurts. I bite myself so hard there's this electric pain or whatever he spoke about." That's because he's trying to use the sensory strategy for the other overwhelm that he's experiencing. I can't handle this like vague, overwhelming experience I'm having so I will bring pain into a certain part of my world to focus, to be a pinpoint. And so a lot of, like, yeah. So, yeah, I thought about this in four and a half years. Yeah, well, think about it for yourself. And someone will say, they're quite sensory and I'll go, and I can see it and oftentimes I can see it. Yeah, but we all are. This is a problem so much of this stuff. Putting a kid in a box and saying, "This is what I'm saying. I hadn't been like, the different ends of the sensory. What you're telling me, high threshold, low threshold. Yes. Yeah. Active seeking. Yeah. I'm like, yes. Active seeking, active avoiding. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me think a lot differently. Just, straight off the bat, I can think about my kids just, not diagnosing them with this nap, but I'm like, "Oh, now I actually can see that. I can see it differently." Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Brilliant stuff. Well done. Yeah. You're good. You're good. This is good. I like this. Thank you, sir. Well, looking forward to it next year. So lots of the ally health guys come in, educators come in. Please. People with a lot of rich lived experience in this space. We're a divergent. Kids, families, parents. Yes. Therapists. Yeah. Our own childhood, what we wished that people had known about us back then around this. Brilliant. Yeah. No, it can't wait to really listen already. I cannot wait because there was a lot for me to take on. That's really interesting. Yeah. And I'll do it too. I'll think about, like, reflecting on my own experience and that of my kids from a sensory perspective. Yeah. Yeah, my kids. I can't wait to do that. I'm already thinking, yeah, the mind's wearing at the moment. Beautiful. Well done, Dr. Billy Garvey. Guys, enjoy the episode. Make sure you send your questions through to [email protected]. I'll make sure you follow us on the socials. We really appreciate what you do that. So you can be part of the polls and the questions we're going to ask. You can send us questions through that as well. Hey, my mother's small after your new breath. She'll take it on on me. I don't want it. I don't want to see anybody else like you. Yes, you daddy. What does it do? Just use your best judgment to trust you. Dr. Billy, I love all of our sponsors, but this is one that I rely heavily on. Billy and on heart, I absolutely swear on the first one, the first coffee I could ever recall was Victoria as a label. Since '58, I learned when we were actually learning. 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