Episode 138 - "I have a pretty good team this year”

Unscripted Direct is brought to you by walkup Melodia Kelly and Schoenberger. Based in San Francisco, but with cases all over the country, walkup is one of the most respected, plaintiffs personal injury and wrongful death law firms. The attorneys at walkup are passionate about trying cases, and some of our cases have come from our listeners. If someone reaches out to you with the case, we're happy to see how you know about. We thank walkup for supporting this podcast and our trial advocacy community. [Music] Welcome to Unscripted Direct. I'm Spencer Paul, you can break the law. I'm Justin Bernstein, UCLA. Happy 2026 and welcome to season 10 of the show. We have some national news regarding a prominent member of our community. We've got our first set of NTC regional's predictions between Robert Little at Phil Pasgrello. And we're going to finish the episode by talking about Susan Poles. Let's start though, where we usually end with a mail-back question. That seems so appropriate, right, Justin? Yeah, so here's the question. This one came to us in digital forms. You don't need to open it up. You don't need to make your sounds. Right, it'll be silly. It'll be silly. Right. Is one of your near-resolutions that you're going to be more serious about the mail-back? Absolutely. I am, that is on the head. I will be only serious about the mail-back going forward. Okay, great. Our here it is, first mail-back question of the year. When is the last day of the year when it's still appropriate to say happy new year? The last day of the year when it's appropriate is January 13th. End of the second week, that's the rule. Explain yourself. Well, you know, I think that first week is obvious, second week is okay. And third week it's like, "Yo, it's like we're in the second week of second half of January here." The Christmas tree has been gone for weeks. What do you think? You know, the new year is underway. You can say in the second half of January, I hope your new year is going well. That's legal until January 31st. But yeah, those are the rules. What do you think? Spencer, my new year's resolution is to never disagree with you when you're right. Oh, when I love the conversation. Unfortunately, nothing you just said is correct. So first of all, this January 13th business is utterly arbitrary. 13th by the 13th. So arbitrary. Sometimes two minus one, but you know, keep going. Keep going. I'll hear you out. Second of all, even if you were going to impose some sort of date restriction, it should obviously come with a caveat that it can only be used the first time you see somebody. If you see somebody on the first wish I'm happy new, you can't do it again in the second. But and here's really the, here's really the kuda grot. It's just factually incorrect. The last day of the year when you can appropriately say happy new year is December 31st. Oh Jesus. Yeah. And it's that is funny because if the if the the last day of the year, you can never do anything on is the last day of the year, you can always do it on any day of the year, which I love. But that's not what I'm that's not what I'm saying here. I'm just saying, you know, you can say happy Thanksgiving before Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas, poor Christmas and happy new year right before the new year. So December 31st is the right answer. I'm sorry that you've started Owen one. Man, wow, I'm keeping score too. Only when I win. Only when you win. So so most of the time happy new year, Justin happy new year. Okay. So aside from making very important new years resolutions, what else you've been up to since our last episode fill us in on your winter break. I had a great one a break. I got to do an NBA road trip. My brother, if you listen to the show, you know, my brother works for the NBA. He's the head of referee learning and development. And so one of the orders of his job is that he has to sometimes go to NBA games. And he sometimes has to observe the reps in the game and really great seats. And even though my job has no benefits to him, I can tell so far, his job has great benefits to me because when he gets tickets, they always give him two. And so we, you've got some logistics. Where where did you guys go? We did four games in four cities in four consecutive days. That's awesome. We went to Detroit, then Indianapolis, then Atlanta, and then Salt Lake. The Detroit, Indianapolis, Atlanta, Salt Lake, is that what the order was? Yes. The little north, south, west sort of action there. That's right. Man, did you realize the directions you were going as you were going them? Never. I mean, I guess only in so far is like the time zone would change. You'd be like, "Huh." That's different time here. Yeah. So tell us about some of these seats. I mean, you guys were up in the nosebleeds. That's where they put the employees, right? I assume it's just sort of the last available seat kind of thing. The seats are great. They're consistently pretty close to the court, pretty close to center court. We depend on the game, depends on what's happening, who's playing. But the highlight was in Atlanta, we got for the first time, both my first time at his first time, floor seats. That is nuts. It was really cool. It was really cool. And it was the game where Trayon was traded. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of the fans, including us, knew he was traded before he was. Because he's looking at your phones. And he didn't know. People are looking at his other phones and he's like hanging on them. And then obviously, you see somebody come talk to him, he's looking at his phone, and then he's like giving hugs. Oh. Yeah. So, you know, just like on our show, it's like breaking news. Like we're, you know, we're often, often finding out before others. Yeah, that's pretty difficult of us. Yeah. All right, basketball. Sounds like that was fun. Anything else? Yeah. So, he flew home from Salt Lake and I flew to Vegas and met some friends. And we played some cards. Played some cards. Yeah. A poker type I might suspect. So, yes, it's pretty much the only game I'll play. Occasionally, if others are playing Lackjack, I'll join in like the low stakes. But I don't really love like the gambling in the house. I pretty much only play poker. You like to take on humans who are not as good as statistics generally. So, I, you know, some of your strategies include, you know, obviously, you know, using your training and logic and statistics and all that jazz. But is there anything fun you do at the table to, uh, you know, to spice it up a little bit for yourself? You know there is. What? I've told you this. It's live action role playing, larping. I will sometimes when I'm at the poker table, take on a different identity. Not just for my own amusement, but also I just think it's useful if people don't know you are like, if you say, oh, I'm a lawyer or whatever, like you're, they're going to draw certain assumptions. For example, right, you know, I should do that one. But they're going to draw assumptions about you. You don't want people thinking, oh, this is a person who's trained in logic or risk management or anything like that. So like, I always get surprised to be like, oh, I'm a hedge fund manager. I'm like, oh, great. So you like to bluff terrific. Thank you for telling me. So, you know, I, if somebody asks me what I do or where I'm from, I, I've got some stories. Okay. And share your most recent one. So I unveiled a new one. Unvegas. When I was in Vegas, I can't say I thought about it very long, but I saw it coming. I'm like, all right, I got to have something fun. And so I said, I make fonts. And they're like, you make phones. I'm like, no, fonts. I designed typeface. Did they push down your Sarah? San Sarah? What was the answer there? Oh, they asked a lot of questions. What was it? And so, well, they're just like, what does that mean? So I'm like, oh, you see how it says, Venetian casino on the table below that it says Las Vegas. Like one of those has the curves at the end. Those are called serifs that helps us identify letters at a distance and increases comprehension. Then you got below that no serifs. We call that contrast. What do you do if somebody asks like, okay, what's really interesting then would on which marketplaces do you sell your fonts? So you have to be prepared and poker and in this game to lie. And so I was asked that question and I said that I sell to companies. I do work for companies who are looking to design fonts. And someone's like, oh, you mean like logos? I'm like, oh, no, I wish I could do logos. I do fonts. Such a, it's funny and bland and perfect for your purposes, right? I mean, I realized there's some risk of getting called up. But here's the thing. They might be curious. They never accursed them. You're lying. Like, why would you lie about this? That's what they're thinking. So I, yeah. And they're like, I'm a lion tamer myself. Don't you expect they're lying as well? Not about that. Although I have said, I'm a zookeeper. That is one of my go-to's. I'm more like the, the like, what, what's the zoo keeping? Which animals do you keep? If you keep lions, you know, it's like, that's kind of a recipe. You have to pick something you know a little bit about. So I do elephants. I keep elephants. Yeah. Good stuff. Sounds like you had an excellent, excellent time over the break. I feel refreshed. What about you? What have you been up to? What have I been up to? Well, aside from the break, which was restful, since the break has not been very restful. And I hate to, to, to comment on the current times. But it has been a hard go of it for our country in the last couple few weeks. And that has taken a lot of my attention. Well, you and I are talking on a Tuesday. This episode comes out on Thursday, assuming we still have a United States of America on Thursday. When this comes out, can you tell us a little more? I mean, like, what have you been focused on? I mean, what have you been doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, a lot of protesting and organizing and soul searching. I mean, so if you, if you'll forgive me, I'm just going to share some, share a set of thoughts on, and where we stand. What we've seen this administration do in Minnesota this year is. horrifying. It's the breakdown of the rule of law. People are exercising their first amendment and second amendment rights and have been shot and killed, murdered in the street in broad daylight on video. Instead of any investigation whatsoever into their conduct, the administration has barred investigation and immediately lied about what happened in the shootings in the face of clear video evidence. They have smeared the good names of a wife and mother of three and an ICU nurse who worked at the veterans administration. And while all of this is happening, the administration is violating the fourth amendment on a regular basis by going door to door and searching homes without proper warrants. We teach our students and have dedicated our careers and our lives to the rule of law. In the courtroom, we train our students to know the law cold, then martial defects to get the proper outcome based on the law, law above all else, above how much we dislike the defendant or like the prosecutor, above which side has more money, above which ways the political winds are blowing law above all else. If we don't have the rule of law, what's the value of what we teach? What will it mean to prove your case if proving your case doesn't affect the outcome? There's a reason we've all made the rule of law central to our lives. We believe in it. Our constitutional rights are just words written on paper. That's all. The first amendment means nothing if we don't stand for it and use it nor does any right we claim to have. It's only real. They're only real. If we make them real and if we don't make them real, they are not real. So what can we do? Anything and everything small and large. You see protesters on a bridge of the freeway honk. You know, there's a protest in your city, drive by, honk. Maybe stop. Join them for a few minutes. If there's a general strike, join. This is our chance. Now we need to stand up. I agree with everything you said, 100%. And one thing I admire about you most is you never shrink from this. A lot of times I just can't bring myself to read the news or I'll read it. But I can't talk about it with others because it's just too upsetting. How do you stay optimistic when it seems like there's so little reason for optimism? How do you stay energized when the news is so crushing? I'll tell you it's not that it's easy. I feel down as well. But really two things I think pull me through. One is, I mean, you know, what's our choice? What choice do we have? We're going to quit. We're not going to quit. You know what? What would be the point of this existence, either as an American, a believer in the rule of law or a human being, if our choice was to quit? So, you know, at the end of the day, none of us are going to quit. We aren't. Right? So let's lean into that. And secondly, I find the most uplift in taking any political action at all. And it doesn't have to be going to a protest even. Of course, I would not recommend that higher to be in common cause with folks. But just to talk with somebody else, however small, however short the conversation is about what's happening and to realize, wait a minute, this other person feels like I do that realization that we are not alone actually. And in fact, the vast majority of folks of Americans believe that it is, for example, wrong to murder people in the streets, like, you know, just the realization that we all believe in this is incredibly powerful to me. So I would just, you know, that's what gets me through. And I hope I can get other people through too. Well, the only part of your recommended course of action I personally will have trouble following is the honking. I don't know if you know this. Did you know that I am bad at honking? Is it like a timing thing or I did not know it? I just don't do it. I get, I feel like it's discurdious. So I like in a positive way or in a negative way, like somebody cuts you off blatantly, puts you, you know, it's dangerous or yeah, that circumstance, would you honk there? If I thought there was like immediate peril and I'm like, I need to alert somebody, I might honk, but the truth is I probably would be like, oh, I don't know what to do. Like I'm not the best at driving. You know how the people like, oh, 80% of people think or 90% of people think they're above average drivers. I think I'm pretty average. Like I, I'm not the only thing that keeps me from being below average is that I'm pretty defensive driver, pretty conservative driver. But I'm not great at like, oh, I need to react to this car that cut me off a honk. I'm like, I'll just immediately slow down. It must be my fault. So yeah, yeah, some like the competitiveness that I might have in in other endeavors or aggression, I might have in competitive endeavors. I don't have it all behind the wheel. So I would estimate, you're going to think this is crazy. I would estimate that I've honked fewer than five times in my life. I just love the, it's just funny how everybody's different. And I wouldn't even think to not be certain about whether I should honk positively or negatively. I don't do it gratuitously, but if like someone's going to cut me off or injure me or something. But I just love how you have lack certainty there. But then in your trial advocacy and your consulting and, of course, all the other skills that build off of that, you're very confident. It's funny. I'm also bad at rebounding and basketball. I just sort of hesitate. I don't jump. I wait for the ball to come to me. As I say this, I think I, I think I need help. I think you're done all right. Okay. Well, speaking of sports and competition. Yes. It's time for. It's time for the victory. Since our last episode, there's been one big competition result. Cal alum Fernando Mendoza won the Heisman Trophy and then completed its college career with a 16-no undefeated season and the national championship, including an iconic fourth quarter touchdown run with a dizzying dive and spin. His team season is being described by many as one of the greatest stories in sports history. I really want to say alum or attendee. Is that more accurate? Just asking curious. Go Bears. Go Bears. Why would I ask? New topic, Justin, you said that a member, a prominent member. Hold on a second. Are you so rusty for last season that your sag ways have developed to new topic? Change course of conversation. All right. The good stuff for later. We got to build during the semester. I can't, you know, I can't just like try out all the good stuff right now, you know? Yeah. Well, there's somewhere in between good stuff and new topic, but okay, that's fine. New topic. You said that a prominent member of the community has been in the news. I didn't know about this until you mentioned it to me. Please go on. Same topic. Here's the story. Charles Bediaco is a basketball player from 2021 to 2023. He competes for the University of Alabama. Then he declares for the NBA draft, but no one drafts him. He signs what's called the two way NBA contract. He gives an NBA team the right to call him up to the NBA, but he never gets called up. Never plays an NBA plays in the G league like their minor leagues for the Austin Spurs and the Grand Rapid Gold. Fast four a couple years, he applies to the NCAA for reinstatement of his college eligibility. NCAA says no. He sues. Goes to court. A judge grants a temporary restraining order allowing him to play for Alabama while this sputes pending plays one game scoring 13 points in a loss the Tennessee. I thought you said something about a prominent member of the community. The judge in question is Judge Jim Roberts. The rent of the pod. Of course. That's right. Head coach of Kermit Williams trial team. And as you said, friend of the pod, that's the top of his resume right above Judge. Some people agree with his ruling, including prominent basketball people like Coach K, Michel Shepsky and Jay Billis, because his ruling they said is consistent with how the NCAA has handled similar cases. Some have disagreed saying that once you sign in a NBA contract, you're ineligible and this is just another step in the descent of college sports. And some have made it hardly personal attacking him and his family because he's an Alabama alum and supporter. Some of the attacks in social media have gotten really, really ugly. I don't I have not followed it that closely. That of course is completely ridiculous, outrageous, completely totally unacceptable. Are you referring to his ruling or the social media attacks? Okay. Social media attacks. Thank you for the clarifying question. But it's just, you know, it's like, you know, what I don't know the facts here well enough. But what it's just like, it's a little ridiculous to me that, you know, that a fine judge like Judge Jim Roberts is the one who's like, you know, taking another step in the descent of NCAA sports. I mean, as if this has not been sort of foretold and written in stone by, you know, decades of other things that have come before. You know, this is indeed it is going to something else, a quasi or actually professional thing and rulings like this, I suspect will be part of the path because that's just how it's going to go. Well, the news continues. Like I said, you and I are talking on Tuesday, late yesterday, the NCAA asked Judge Robert Stewart Hughes himself. So by the time this airs, that may have been decided when we're the other. But they made it clear they're not alleging any wrongdoing. Here's an excerpt from their brief quote, the NCAA does not allege that any actual bias motivated the courts grant of a temporary restraining order instead the NCAA contends that proceeding in this court has created an impermissible appearance of impropriety because of the intense media scrutiny and public speculation surrounding the courts' religious beliefs. at the University of Alabama and its athletics programs and student athletes. Who's council friends? You know, for the NCAA, you know? I think lawyers. Any particular lawyers? I don't know. I don't know. I wonder if it is. Yeah. Well, you can find out. I could find out. I would require research. That is quite a statement on their part though. Well, okay. Well, you defended him a moment ago. I'll defend him too, even though he tried to replace me as co-host of the show. He did. He did. He tried and failed. His ruling seems right. The NCAA has allowed other professionals to return to college basketball, to our European players, G-L-G-L-Y-Payers. Even G-L-Y-Payers were actually drafted by the NBA for sure on picks. The two-way contract is the only distinction. It seems like distinction without a difference. I sympathize with people who hate what's happening in college sports. I do too. But this ruling doesn't seem like a change to NCAA policy. It seems like a reflection of NCAA policy. Agreed. And I think that you know, college sports are changing. I'm nostalgic about how things were, but how things were was not acceptable. You cannot people doing this kind of work and putting their bodies at risk and not getting paid. I mean, you just cannot do that. And so a version of college sports that used to exist, it really can exist now. And that's going to have a lot of uncomfortable. And in some respects, sad changes to the sport that we love, sports that we love. But, you know, it is also the reality. And regardless of the merits, anyone who knows just Robert's knows the decision wasn't motivated by anything other than the desire to get it right. I mean, if he resists the motion to recuse, exhibiting should be cumberslans, 352 professionals and moors. Yeah, that is laughable. I mean, I know he loves Alabama sports. But I think he loves trial advocacy and his students more. And they are classy when they win, when they lose every moment. And you know, that's why I find that incitably statement to be just completely not knowing who they're talking about. Yeah, I mean, now I don't want to second guess him. But I wonder if, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, maybe he shouldn't have signed his order roll-tot. You know, like that. That's something we can debate. Well, maybe we'll get Jesu Roberts to come on. And he can make eligibility rulings for law school Montréal. Like, you know, two L from Baylor in good academic standing. Nope, no eligibility. Sarah Williams, member of A.J. experienced trial lawyer. Yeah, she can still compete for cumberslans. Different couple of years, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Funny thing is, I would trust him completely to do that. You know? Oh God. Well, hang in there, judge. Well, speaking of totally unfounded accusations of impropriety, you're going to hear some from Phil Pes Grello in this segment of NTC Prediction. Spencer, you want to tell everybody about the history of the prediction segment? That's one of first of all compliment you on your mid-season form with the transition there. It was really excellent. Same topic. So the predictions contest is an opportunity for folks in the community who don't mind the getting picked on for their choices and razz the entire time to come on and make predictions about who is going to advance at NTC and A.J. We do the regionals. And then we also do the nationals separately. And in the last three years, we've had Robert Little and Phil Pes Grello on to do the NTC predictions and they are back again. Who won those first three years? Right. So first year, Robert Little had an astounding win that I think sort of set the tone for the entire competition, never be forgotten. The year after Phil won and then I think Phil made a one the third time too. So we got to have him back on to really settle the score finally in a proper rubber match. It's Robert won and Phil, you know, the next two years versus Robert. So we got to see who comes out. Wow. Big year whoever wins this year is leading. Yes, exactly. All right. Here's Robert and Phil. We welcome back to the show, Robert Little from Baylor and Phil Pes Grello from Drexel. Thanks for coming on. Excited to be here as always. It's that time of year again, guys. As the inaugural champ, I'm always excited to be here and to thin my first and original title. Don't know response. Let's just get on with it. Let's get on with the contest. Usually it takes you like halfway through this episode to get grumpy. You're already there. It's season four. I said we welcome you back, but of course it's just me. Spencer couldn't be bothered. I don't know where he is or what he's doing. So I apologize. It's almost like being a real full-time practicing lawyer has consequences. I wouldn't know. All right. Well, Phil, where we're talking here mid-January, Winner Break is just ended. How many days during Winner Break did you spend at Disney World? Nine. I was kidding. Nine for real? Nine. We had three separate hotels within the property. At what point are you ashamed? Never. I had an amazing time. Robert, at what point should he be ashamed? I'm ashamed for him right now. That's bad. Clearly, nine is too many. But I feel like it's way over the line. Can I reveal something that you guys may not know? Go ahead. There is a prominent member of this community and a prominent guest on this show who is also a closet Disney adult. Are you going to tell who it is? No, Robert. That's what we in the radio business called, "Tes." I know you were in the media. I know you were in the media. That's a good idea. I enjoy that when you get it. Let's turn to this year's predictions contest. Normally Spencer would recap how it works, but I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but he's not here. So this is the fourth year we've had you guys on the show to make predictions about NTC regionals and the results. I will go through the rules in a second. But the most important part of our first weekend of predictions is setting the stakes. We've had before the loser had to wear the other's football jersey at Top Gun, whether that's an Eagles jersey or Cowboys jersey. We've had Robert having to show up in Philadelphia at the experts. I mean a trip to Philadelphia. That's rough. I'm sorry, Robert. And we've also contemplated the possibility that Robert would get to name Phil's first born child. That's where the name Chicken Palm Pascarolo entered existence. Have you guys thought about what you want the stakes to be for this year's competition? I just want to point out one thing. We didn't ponder the possibility of me naming his first child. He put on the line me having naming rights and then withdrew that opportunity. And I didn't win, so I didn't get the right. But I would like to point out that it wasn't discussed. He agreed to it and then chickened out at the end. So I just think the record needs to be clear about what happened last year with that wait. Phil, do you want to correct the record? That all sounds true to me. My only comment is that I won last year's prediction contest by a wide margin, despite you and Spencer ringing it beyond belief. And so regardless of what the stakes were, it wouldn't have really much mattered. And so I again rejected this question as moot. You won by one. You literally could not have won by less. And you had to win the last week in order to avoid having your child named an embarrassment. Yeah, but have you ever watched like a sports game and you know, like an NBA team wins like 123 to 120 and someone says, oh, it wasn't as close as it looked. Like that is how I feel about the predictions contest every single year. We're doing the first year. The first year when you lost. Yeah. When you rigged it. Right. Sam, Sam, I'd like you to insert right here into the episode where they rigged it three years ago. Right here. You you better a little man. You you you better little man. Yeah, 511. I don't know if you call that average now. Is that what I think I'm taller than you. Right. All right. So what are the stakes for this year since you've now, you know, argued about the stakes from past years. Bill, any boss? I think Robert's got to come to battle regardless because I think he had fun and I think he enjoys spending time with me. I don't think we need to wait for that. Well, 2D fair last year I did admit I was going to fill it up either way, which means last year I had to buy the sandwiches at battle, which by the way, small pitch for battle, you ought to come if you have it. You can because we have a delicious spread of Italian hoodies that we get while we're, I don't know if you'll call them hoogies. I don't know which of, we're northeastern thing is. But anyways, we have delicious sandwiches we get brought in for all the coaches and I paid for those last year for the lunch for everybody. That was my losing bet, which by the way, just means I got to eat really, really well. And so I agree I will do my best to be in Philadelphia this fall if I can. So that's really not worth weight drinking this pool. Robert, tanking my US news rank by saying you ought to come to the 10 team invitation only tournament. Just saying you got to fight for that invitation is all I'm saying. There you go. There. Well, I'll toss out one possibility. You know, last year there was naming rights for Phil's firstborn that were contemplated. Robert, I understand you have some big news. I do have some big news. Me and my wife Adriana are in fact, do with child, we're with child and she is due in early July. So this will be our first child and we are very, very excited. So we're definitely looking forward to that and have been pumped for a few months now when we found that out. So we are very, very excited for that. I admire how you timed the due date to avoid major competitions. That was really, that was really some good work by you. That was my joke off air. That was my joke off air that Justin just repackaged in real time as his own joke. That was unbelievable. Well, I figured if you can make a career at a repackaging my lines, I could steal one of yours. You know, it's the best part of that is off air when Phil told that story or said, made that joke. He then described a conversation with him and Jess, where Jess brought that up as soon as they found out when the job was due and said, this way, you can still go to Thailand and the nationals, the advanced Thailand nationals, isn't that exciting? And as I said to Phil, my wife told me, me that we were pregnant and told me the due date and has made not a single mention of anything that will impact in my life in any way other than you're going to need to be here a lot. So that was the difference between my wife and Jess is she does not care at all when I do professionally. So that's always a good reminder. So Robert, do you want to put it risk, the naming rights to your first born? I asked Adrienne before I came on the show whether I could do that and she asked me if that was the deal last year, I said it was supposed to be but Phil's a big chicken. And so she said, well, if he refused to honor his bed, then there's no reason for us to put up our daughter's naming rights in exchange. Robert, I'll make you this deal. If you, if I win, I get to name your daughter. And if I lose, I'll give you, I'll even give you odds. If I lose, you can name literally every single child that I have for the rest of my life. Wait a second, every single child you have every one of them, you can name every single one of them, Thomas R. Klein, if you want to. I grab the first guy that you are over and wake. I just want to point out there's no chance in hell. I would give that your child the name Thomas R. Klein, this point and much, much worse than that. It might be another name, comma, brought to you by Thomas R. Klein. That's an old name. Old name. And then last name, like almost like Comma Jr. I'm a Comma Jr. Brought to you by Thomas R. Klein. But yes, okay, well, I will agree to that. I want to be clear that I'm 50% of this enterprise. So we'll have to all have to check with the wife, but I will make that deal with you right now. So we'll have to check with the other half of our lives. Done. Let's do it. Okay, so let me make sure I understand if your wives agree, which they definitely won't. The agreement is that if Robert wins, he gets the name, all of those remaining children. I can't wait to meet ZOOM Mug Try a little this June. And if Phil wins, he gets the name Roberts daughter. Is this right? I assure you next week, I'm going to have a list of incredibly offensive names involving various Italian dishes that will be for Phil, the rest of Phil's children. Okay. I can't wait to meet. Should we have a new national tournament little in Waco in June this year? I'm going to be off the top of the following. If in the unexpected scenario that your wives reject this absurd idea, how about the backup plan for stakes is that the loser has to wear a t-shirt of the winners making at eats. Well, just because our wives won't call the kids that doesn't mean Robert and I can't call the kids those names. It could be their community name, like what the rest of the community calls them. I will also though, in lieu of our addition to, I will agree your side bet, which is the loser has to wear a shirt of the winners making or choice at eats. I'm down for that. Phil? Whatever. Is Phil at the company eats? Is that a thing or is that part of this bet? Well, now that's my full-time job, Robert. So I have to go. Okay. So Phil, when you said whatever, was that a yes or is that a yes and a withdraw later when I get scared? I'll agree, but I want you to promise on behalf of you, and Spencer and Sam and Stella if she's still involved in this podcast. He's laughing at his own joke. He's so pleased himself. That you won't rig it. I want you to promise that that you won't rig it. And then I'll agree. Of course, it wouldn't rig this. This is too important. All right. Here are the rules. In each region, you alternate picks. Each get three picks per region. For the first two picks, you can choose any team you want. For the last pick, you're a sleeper pick. You must choose a school that hasn't advanced to NTC Nationals in the last three years. For your convenience, the teams that have earned bids in the last three years are in the document. I said you. The international's is worth one point. Remember, you're picking teams not schools. So if Phil takes Utah, Rob can still take the other Utah team. And that scenario, if one Utah team gets a bid, Phil gets the point. If both get bids, you both get a point. You can draft both teams from a school, potential to learn two points, but that requires two separate picks. Any questions? We'll start with Robert. I don't understand anything you just said, but it's all going to go great. Well, it's the same rules as when you won before. Yeah, I didn't do any. I didn't understand it then. Just dumb luck. We know. Phil, any questions? Ready to go. Let's do this. All right. In week one, Rob's going to pick first in regions one and 12. Phil's going to pick first in region nine. And don't worry, Phil. It's not a question of rigging next week when there's another odd set. You'll get the extra pick. Sure. Right. I'm sure I will. All right. So in region one, Rob, you've got the first pick. Who do you select? Well, I want to lay out my framework for this year. People have understood my framework in past years. Year one completely random guesses. Year two was kind of like almost football theme. Year last year, it was basically based on the idea of who had the most interesting story about the university. This year, I'm a numbers guy. You know, I've learned from Phil over the years. It's about numbers, about crunching the numbers, getting in the lab. Here's the thing about that. I'm not going to do that myself. So I thought myself, I'm a numbers guy. Unknowingly, you do the work. What can we do to really turn this into a competition, not between Phil and I, but a competition using general knowledge? added Adams rankings and crunching, letting them crunch the numbers for me. And now using the Gavill rankings and the trial competition performance rankings to determine my picks. So, with each pick, I will either be picking the highest ranked team from Gavill or TCPR, and you can judge for yourself which one turned out the best over the course of the picking. So my first pick I will give to Gavill. I'm wearing my Gavill quarter zip right now, so I'll go Gavill with my first pick. And the highest rated team out of Region 1 in Gavill rankings for last year is Harvard. So I will be picking Harvard with my first pick. Phil, how do you feel about this? Robert's actually showing up with data. Have you ever had to face an opponent who done any preparation? I mean, at the risk of revealing the helping Robert, it's not going to be there's no way to help this guy. He's lost. But I have two comments. One, the guy can't even read. It literally says Jared's name on the Gavill ranking list. He said Justin, he can't read number one. Number two, he's using last year's data. Does he know that those kids graduated? Like he has the Gavill for this year. Why is it you think last year? Did they graduate? I don't know. I've seen some of your kids who were there last year. They're still here this year. We've all got kids who were two old enough reals. That's how time works. I'm simply saying, I don't know who's on these teams. Somebody did math for me. I'm using that math. It's a much better system than whatever jackassery you've gotten along. So I'll trust my system. Phil, you have the next pick. Region one. Good use of jackass, Rob. I'm going to go with the only school in the country that won both of its tournaments this fall. Right? 13th in Gavill for the fall of 2025. The most recent Gavill or anything's data, Robert. I'm going to go Boston College. Robert? Bear point. I'll go back to last year's rankings, but you're a whole season, not turn my tournament. You're going right now. It's a whole season of data. Given that they are also the highest rated team in the TCR rankings, I will also take Harvard's second team. I haven't followed up about that. You said they're the highest rated in TCR. Did you go to TCR.com? Because that might have forwarded you to Gavill. I cannot reveal how I did the work. Okay. Just checking. Phil? Over the last nine years, Harvard has won this region more than any other school six times. I'm going to go with the school that's won this region the second most at five times. I'm going to go with Quinnipiac. All right. Robert, you're sleeper in region one. Sleeper. It's the highest rated sleeper I could find from last season in either Gavill or TCR. That will be Boston University School of Law. Probably my sleeper pick. We have an even bigger surprise than the Robert sleeper pick. We have the appearance of Spencer Palky, who apparently is still part of the podcast. Spencer, welcome to Unscripted Direct. I came on to apologize to, well, especially Phil and Phil and Robert. I'm sorry, guys. Also, I wasn't going to wait until the show airs to get at least some of the flack that you got for me. So I figured I'd just pop on here. You can hit me with it. I'll just see what the best shots are, but I don't mean interrupt too much. So my apologies. What kind of flack are you talking about? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, now I feel bad because we didn't notice you were missing. There we go. There we go. But a lot's happened since you were gone. Phil went to Disney for like weeks and weeks of winter break. Robert and his wife are now expecting. Oh my lord. This is totally worth it. Very true. Congratulations. Thank you, sir. They have wagered. They have wagered if you believe it. Naming rights for Robert's first born versus naming rights for all of Phil's future born. This is great. So good. I love it. Okay. Well, these are wonderful life developments and carry on. I don't want to interrupt too much. Phil, you're sleeper pick in Region 1. He teaches our students to get out in front of things in trials. And so I'm going to go out in front of Robert's stupid. Oh, it's a name joke. And I'm going to make it first that way. He can't make it for the entire semester. I'm going to go with Roger Williams. I get Roger and Williams. You believe that? Roger. That's how you talk. That's how you talk. That's how you sound when you talk. I missed you guys. Oh, I'm too. I'm too. Oh. All right. So I moved to Region 9 till you've got the first pick here. I'm excited to hear how you're going to say it's rigged even though you get to pick first. Sure. So my first pick means actually a lot of my criteria. They are number, they were number eight in Gavagrankin for the fall of 2025, which I will repeat is the most up-to-date data that Robert is for some reason not using. They won A.A.J. last year, which if you've listened to me in the past, you know, that's a big criteria for me. A.A.J. student sometimes competed at NTC the next year. So they won the region last year. And they are also the host. So this checks my maybe host or cheating box. So Josh potentially is cheating behind all of our backs. That would meet my criteria as well. So I'm going to go with Northwestern. Northwestern A selected by Phil. Before you pick, Robert, I'm just going to do a quick poll of everybody else on here. Robert, do you think the Northwestern's cheating is the host? I do not believe that. And it's a, it's disappointing to hear from the member of our community cast dispersions both on Northwestern University, Josh as a director, and just NTC in general. You know, Tyler or TYLA and the ACTL organizations that I just don't think deserve that kind of, you know, flag from somebody like one of us. So that's it. But see, you never know about the director. You think you know them well. Then you learn things about them. For example, we just learned that Robert can't read. So you really learn new things about people every semester. And so maybe Josh is cheating. Just like we learn that Robert can't read. It's always on the one. I'm going to join Robert. Go ahead, just go ahead. Just to total, you know, Shiv, instead of this little, you know, glancing. God, just, the jugular is always the aim. The man can't read Spencer. He's on a podcast. Okay, all right. Yep. Spencer, you know, you're going to break the tie here. Do you think there's shenanigans going on Northwestern's region? Oh, I'm going to break the tie. Wow. You just because I'm late to one podcast segment, you think I have no sense of the questioning type that I get from you. And I let you do that. Enforce me to answer. I will not answer your question, but I believe Robert's right. I thought this was an easy one. I was giving you an out here. Of course they're not cheating. But I will point out, you know, Phil's super suspicious of host cheating. Phil, aren't you hosting an NTC region? Maybe I'm cheating. You never know. Okay. This is a real problem. Okay. Robert, you've got the next pick in region nine. Okay. So first of all, I really hope I don't end up on a protest committee involving one of Phil's teams when somebody brings up his admission on this podcast. I don't think that's great. Second of all, Phil, why I'm not using the most recent data and why I haven't done things like looked up. They won their A.J. region last year. They won the two terms they went through this fall and blah, blah, blah. And it's called a life. So when you're not spending nine days in the Disney World, singing "Mawana" songs and stuff, you got actual things to do. You know, I'm sorry, but I don't just walk around going, you're welcome. And so here I am with a live interview with which a stuff other people prepared. That being said, I'm excited to pick the team that had the top ranking, the highest ranking amongst this region in last year's T.C.P.R. rankings. And that be Chicago Kent. So I will take Chicago Kent in my first day. What's your issue with Milano, Robert? I love Milano. I love Milano. I love Milano. I just don't need to put on my costume, my rock costume, whatever that guy's character's name is. And he actually goes to the park and sings the song and like, he did the theme "Brestron" and ride the stupid rides. It's like, that's the difference. Oh, they were costumes, Robert. Okay. Spencer, do you have anything to say to him? What's that? Do you have anything to say to Robert? He says they were costumes. I don't think that's right. Well, I just didn't say his name is Maui, actually. And I love the podcast episode when Robert Little is saying, maybe we could get a couple bars of your welcome, you know? You want to do that right now? Sure. By the way, he says he doesn't know the movie or like the movie is not a Disney fan. He knows like the fourth most popular song from this obscure Disney movie. It's ridiculous. He's a liar and he can't read. He's going to be a dad. So here I go. I have something to say in this moment and I think it's important. Number one, I can't read joke. It's getting very played out. But regardless, fair enough, I can't read. We're doing a podcast. I don't think it's important. Oh, the concept that you're welcome is the fourth best song in that movie is evidence that Phil has no idea what he's talking about. Like that is even the top three joint in that movie. It's not even close. That's a silly thing to say. It's, it makes me disappointed in you as an evaluator of Disney lore that you think that. So we'll just end it there. I've seen Robert read at least at least twice. So I can vouch. All right. The next pick belongs to Phil. Chicago can't Northwestern have won this region more than any school over the last nine years. So I'm going to go with the school that's won at the third most at four times. I'm going to go with Loyola Chicago. Robert. So based on my rules, I got to take the highest ranked team in Gavels. Since I took the highest ranked team in T.C.P.R. It's like going to go from last year. again last year's video. data, which will point out in a second, loads you've done. And I will take Chicago against second team as well. That is him. Excuse me. Phil, last pick, it's a sleeper. For my sleeper, I'm going to go with the school that I believe as far as the data goes over the last nine years has never won their NTC region. Yet this team is ranked 27th in Gavill for the fall, broke at two of their five events. And this is the Chicago region, and this team won the Chicago Cup. I'm going to go with Illinois as my sleeper. Spencer's nodding his head. I'm going to go with the rest. Robert. Data driven, Gavill rankings, next highest rated team, St. Louis. We'll be my pick. You get St. and Louis. You believe that? I've got a question, Robert. Are you going to continue this approach in later weeks? You're going to see how it goes this week? First of all, I doubt that I'll know what the outcome of this week is. So I think it's unlikely I'll be able to judge my performance based on the outcome of this week sitting there on the phone with you going, "Hey, who are the, did I score eight points?" And all that stuff. I'll just find out in the next podcast. So who knows? I don't know what I'm going to do next week. Total chaos, right? It could be anything. So we'll just, we'll have to find out. That's why people tune in. Yeah. I mean, Phil's scouting department is really going to be confused. Like, do we scout based on Robert doing the same approach? Are we assuming he's going to mix it up? I mean, I think you've got a lot of people running around confused at this point. Just likely next week it'll be something about relating each one of these schools to Disney characters just to really get it and feel it's head and then speaking of the characters the way of picking schools. So I would love that. I would be really great. Okay. Last region for Weekend 1, Robert, you've got the first pick in region 12. With that, I'll be taking Drake. The school and not the rapper. So in this region, these schools have only competed in four fall 2025 tournaments combined. So not a lot of data to go on here. So I'm going to pick the school that's competed more than any other school in the fall in this region. And that is Wisconsin. Aren't they the host? They're the host. Any any. You want to say accusations you want to take there? Possibly they're cheating. That's not even controversial. I'm not saying they are cheating. Maybe they're cheating. Has anyone ever come on the show and more unnecessarily just attacked other programs and directors? I don't think so. I think if Wisconsin heard this, they would agree that like, yeah, maybe we're cheating. I don't believe that. I don't think that's true. Is that what you would think if somebody came on and said, maybe Drexel's cheating? Yeah, maybe. Well, they'll be cheating. Say that though already. He may be cheating. By the way, after we bring it up, if I win, he has to wear a t-shirt I get to make at eights, odds are it's going to be say on the front Drexel, Matt Trial on the back is going to say, maybe we're cheating. So just put that out right now. Since that's his basic program, maybe we're cheating. That's probably going to be the share. Okay. Next pick, Robert. I am going to take the. I'm actually going to leave out here and take my. What do we call sleeper pick with my second pick? And the highest ranked team I could find out of this region in GABA rankings, which is North Dakota. So I'll be taking North Dakota. Phil. This school has won this region more than any other school in the last nine years at five times. I'm going to go with Iowa. This is my favorite because Phil always talks about how he does research, which he's really doing is seeing who won before and assuming they're going to win again. Like that's the research. No, I need you to listen. That's not. That's one thing I research, but not the only thing I research, Justin. By the way, it's hilarious when somebody says, you're using old data. You're not using current data. And then he says, they won the region a lot in the last nine years. Seems inconsistent. Not saying it's inconsistent seems inconsistent. What would it sound like if you were saying it was inconsistent? It would sound a lot like that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Robert, you're pick another sleeper. This is the next team I've got right now. I'm going to go with the Golden Gofers of Minnesota. Nice. I think they have qualified for nationals in the last three years. I took my sleeper pick last, but North Dakota. I thought I could take them. So the last pick has to be a sleeper. The first two can be the ones. You can end up with more than one sleeper, but you can't do a sleeper in round three. I know Phil thinks we rig it, but we are going to follow the rules. How can you select this man to know that if he can't read the rules? I didn't read the rules. I can't read. I think we've learned that. I can't appreciate buying music in a way that Phil doesn't understand, but I can't read. So it's a real problem in life. Okay. Well, whatever. So in that case, I will take, you know what? I'm going to take, I don't get just one pick here. I get two. I get both Mitchell and Hamline. So I'll take Mitchell Hamline. Done. Phil. That was my pick. Kyle Corver. Kyle Corver is one of my favorite six years ever. I'm going to go with Creighton. That was a little bit of Robert strategy there. Just say around them fact and then pick a school. I can't believe the University of Nebraska was shut out here by you guys. You know, we are at this point, 18 and oh, in basketball. Top 10 for the first time ever. Number seven. I think we can deserve a little more respect. Just saying. You want to talk about football team, right? Nope. Okay. Spencer, I, Spencer, I agree. Robert doesn't respect you. I, I totally agree. And I for one, don't think it's right. Thank you. I appreciate it, Phil. All right. Let's wrap this up. Robert, how are you feeling at the end of week one predictions? I'm feeling exactly the same as I do every week would do this, which is awesome and amazing. But that has nothing to do with what just happened. That is mostly to do a spending time with you and Spencer and that. Yeah. Yeah. Phil, how are you feeling? Just just waiting to see how you guys are going to. Oh, actually, the rules say Robert gets to make every pick because he's done 18 to nothing in a weekend three. That's what happens for the rest of this. He will forget the fact that y'all just enforced the rules against me in a way that means I did not get the picks I wanted. And it'll just be like, then it will happen. Let me make sure I understand. You're evidence for them, not rigging it is for the first time in three years that enforce the sleeper rule in region 12, where there's only been four fall tournaments. That's your evidence. I mean, they enforce the, I think enforcing the rules is the very nature of not rigging it, isn't it? That's correct. All right. Save some of your barbs for later, gentlemen. We, you know, we, we, we've got to be back on again and again, actually. Well, I want to thank both of you for coming on and Spencer for joining us for the last third. It's good to see all of you. Great to see you guys. Thanks for having me. Good to see you guys. Thanks guys. So great to have those guys back on. Always nice to see him. How would you describe the interview? What word might you use? I'm trying to help you get back into season four. Well, I missed most of it. So my recollection of it was that Phil was, uh, Spencer, you've never needed to hear the interview to tell me it was fun. I left. I'm the only co-host who's ever guilty of that. So, um, so, uh, Phil was, uh, you know, really came out swinging and Robert was, you know, smiling and making jokes. And, you know, I think it's exactly what I'd expect. You know, Robert's gonna run away with it. You know, but when we were recording, the A.J. case was not yet out. It is now out. And now I can understand why Robert didn't want to talk about it. Because can you imagine like the collective reaction of all the students across the country is they're like, oh, this is the case. I'm waiting for him. A three out is my last case. What's it going to be? Oh, slip and fall on a sprinkler. Robert. Uh, Robert. Robert. Yeah. Well, he'll be back on next week and he can tell us all about it. Yes. Well, and I'm sure Phil will have some commentaries here as well. So, yeah, great. Yeah. No, I kidding aside, it looks like a great case. And it's certainly a longer case, than others. 198 pages, 180 of those after the rules. I hope they were paying Robert by the word. Well, folks on our team are excited about it. So, yeah, my kids like it too. We just started practicing and already people are enjoying it. Nice. Yeah. Let's turn our attention now to Susan polls. On Tuesday, January 6th, the community lost Susan polls. She was a professor and the Director of Trial Advocacy at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. And in the history of American Trial Advocacy Education, she was one of the giants. Her excellence can be seen in many places, including especially her students. There are more than a thousand lost students who had her as a professor, hundreds of students who had her as a coach, and so many who will tell you that her instruction was a key to their careers. Her excellence can be seen in her competition results, dozens of tournament wins, including back-to-back NTC national championships. Her excellence can be seen in what she did for others. She created the National Civil Trial Competition, which wasn't just a tremendous event for those who participated, but also an exemplar to everyone else for how to run a great tournament. She was part of the leadership group that met with TYA and garnered huge improvements to their competition. A few years later, she was part of the leadership group that met with AAJ and garnered huge improvements to their competition. And her excellence can be seen in her reputation. In the courtroom, you never wanted to face one of her teams, but you always knew be a clean round. At a conference, she didn't raise her hand often, but when she did, everybody listened. Susanna said respected that she won the EATS lifetime achievement award. about halfway through her career. - Now we plan to do an episode about Susan later in the season with some of her students and coaches, as well as some of her closest friends in the community. But in the meantime, we both wanted to say something about Susan. - Spencer? - You know, I'll never forget when I met Susan in Austin at NTC Nationals. I knew of her and her reputation, and I had met her in person, and I'm just there for my first time at NTC Nationals, and she's sitting in back, and I was like, you know, nervous, rightfully afraid of her, now her team of course just stomped us. But after the round, she was completely gracious and welcoming, and was, I could see through the way she welcomed me, that there was a path in this community to grow, and that people like her would support that and welcome that, and it proved true. She was always somebody I could go to and I had a question or had, you know, thoughts about way things were going on smaller, big issues, and she was just always approachable that way. And I was back and listening to my first interview on the podcast, which was Susan, episode number two of the entire, the entirety of this whole thing. I was listening to that recently, and just blew my mind like where she came from and how she did this. I mean, there was a time folks, when Loyola's trial program was not a trial program. There was nothing there. Hardly anything at all, and she grew it into this incredible presence, this hugely prominent program. And sort of, I don't know, to me, to people of my generation, and my generation, I think, showed how you can do that, and how that's even possible. I mean, but she didn't, I mean, I know there are people who came before her, yes, I understand that, but I don't know, just the way she made this program out of what was nothing before is inspirational to me, and she did it with grace and class, and we won't forget her, and we'll surely miss her. Justin. I first learned about Susan 20 years ago, when my girlfriend at the time competed for Susan's team at Loyola. So I never heard the name Susan, just Professor Poles, and I became well acquainted with Professor Poles' practice schedule. Wednesday night, often until late at night, all day Saturday, all day Sunday, and I do mean all day, three meals. I never met this Professor Poles. I just heard about her, and I heard only good things. I didn't really get to know Susan until I coached law school. First, the top gun. Not everyone was kind of welcoming to the guy who'd only coach college or my trial, but Susan was. And then I got to know her better during the year I coach a Drexel. She hosted us at TOC, and I got to see what it looks like to be a great law school tournament host. We faced later that year at NTC Nationals, and Loyola beat us in round three. Our team sat together at the banquet, and she was really generous about sharing coaching advice and life advice. After that year, I came to UCLA, which meant coming to a region Susan had dominated literally for decades, our relationship changed dramatically. Our programs quickly became rivals. At first, her team's got the better end of it than we did. In the process, our relationship became icy and mistrusting. Publicly into her, I was pretty stoic about it. Privately, I was sad about it. She was a legend. She was somebody I admired. I wanted her approval. I wanted her to like me. So the fact that she didn't hurt. But the weird thing was, even during the days when things were strained, we talked a lot. One of us would call the other about some logistical thing. Where's the NTC banquet? What are the rules for your strange verdict competition? And then we'd end up talking for an hour. We talked about trial strategy, about coaching, about our students. We talked about winning, about losing. We both ate, slept, and breathed this work, and there's something special about connecting with someone else who does too. But it was more than that. Even though we were rivals, we always had strikingly similar backgrounds, growing up in California, going to UC schools for college, starting our careers at the same exact law firm, coaching and practicing law at the same time, then going full time, building a program from scratch, and then dealing with the expectations that come from success. Eventually, our relationship improved. We became actual friends. I can't pinpoint the moment it turned around, but I can pinpoint the moment I was sure that it had. We were at NTC three years ago. She was hosting. I was coaching. And Friday night, after round two, it started. Susan and I ran into each other in the hallway. I think I was going to the coaches' room to get a snack, or the judges' room to steal one of their snacks. And I asked her a question about something trivial. And then we sat in one of the benches and talked for almost three hours until the round was over. I don't repeat exactly what she said. I don't think it was meant for public consumption. But I will say, I'm still moved by her magnanimity. I was awed by her grit and determination in fighting cancer. I was in awe of how she kept coaching and teaching, even when she was too sick to travel the team. The end seems so unfair. Her career ended earlier than she wanted. And then she didn't get to enjoy the years and decades of retirement that she'd earned. Time for their family that she'd earned. I'll remember how thoughtful Susan was, how ethical, how dignified. But most of all, and maybe because this is how we related, I'll remember how competitive she was. The last time I saw Susan in person was two months ago at NCTC, the opening banquet. She greeted me how she usually did. Have you gotten taller? And we talked about getting lunch ever when a break. And then she told me she was planning to help coach NTC regionals. She had a slight smile when she said, you know Justin. I have a pretty good team this year. To Susan. All right, folks, we will see you next week and hope that your semester's off to a good start. Happy New Year. [MUSIC PLAYING] Unscrypted direct is a production of Justin and Spencer, we're mixed and edited by the Sam Chase. If you're not on the list, sir, but want to get our blast email, the chapset sign up at www.unscrypteddirect.com. Follow us on social media as follows. Instagram, we're @unscrypteddirect. Facebook is facebook.com/unscrypteddirect. And Twitter is @unscrypteddx. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING]