EPISODE 13: It's time for change: Improving early pregnancy loss support in Australia with Tarla Lambert.

[Music] Welcome to the Miss Codulean. I'm Sam Payne, CEO and co-founder of the Pink Elephant Support Network. And I'm Stacy Dune Lewis, Councillor Psychotherapist and Broadcaster. This podcast is where we share stories of many Australians who have lost their babies to early pregnancy loss. With evidence and empathy, we unpack the shame, blame and stigma and the lack of support that many face. This is a loss that has been silenced for too long, with it's over better. We are here to normalise the conversation and we're here to make lasting change. Today we welcome Tala Lambert to the very last episode of the Miss Codulean for 2023. Tala is the Editor-in-Chief and Co-Owner at Women's Agenda. Australia's leading online news site, championing women in their lives and careers. Tala is a regular commentator on politics and women's news, appearing on Sky News and ABC, and speaking at various events, promoting equality. Today, Tala bravely shares her personal journey of pregnancy loss, taking us through the challenges she faced in navigating the healthcare system, and the profound impact it had on her emotional wellbeing. This episode will give you insight into the emotional toll of Miss Courage, the need for validation and empathy, and the critical role of support networks. The conversation extends to the broader goals of the Miss Courage Rebellion movement, emphasising the need for systemic changes, increased funding, and the importance of amplifying individual stories to affect real change. So without further ado, please welcome Tala. If you could take us through your lived experience as well of pregnancy loss, and give us some context as to why you kind of understand this and lived experience, but also from that woman's health perspective, that would be great. Yeah, I mean, my own experience was, you know, I was trying with my partner to have a baby for quite some time, and it just wasn't happening as I thought it was, and I was young. I was 28 at the time, so there was, I knew there weren't any complications from that end, I wasn't overweight. I just didn't really know what was going on, and I'd been on the pill for such a long time, and then came off it. And I found my situation really hard to navigate from a health, like from a practitioner point of view, because every time I'd visit the GP and say, "Look, what's going on?" Like, you know, it was getting months down the line, months down the line. And they just, I could never find someone that seemed to really care, or acknowledge what was going on, and there was a lot of advice around the fact that I'd come off the pill, and it was just normal, and maybe my body was just getting back in sync. But they weren't, you know, doing blood tests on me, they weren't really kind of checking what was going on, and it did take probably up to 12 months for me to get a blood test that finally showed that I had, you know, a thyroid issue, and I wasn't ovulating, and that was the issue. And so that was great to finally have some kind of information around that, but it did take that long. And this was also after months of hearing, you know, I might have PCOS, I might have other issues, but never actually having any kind of concrete proof around that either. Just speculation, really. It felt like I was constantly in this space of like people speculating, but not really caring or advocating or trying that hard to uncover what was going on. So at least when I could get on thyroid medication, you know, I did start ovulating. And then shortly after I felt pregnant, and I was so excited because it had taken such a long time to that point. And I was also in this space where, you know, all of my siblings had had babies really easily. There hadn't been any issues. It had never really been part of my consciousness growing up that I would ever have any kind of fertility issue. But I think I always did have a very inherent fear that I wouldn't be able to have kids because that was always what I wanted. I always knew I really, really wanted kids. And so when I felt pregnant, I was just, yeah, beyond excited. And a few weeks into it, I started bleeding and I was spotting. And I went, I just knew, I think you do kind of just know at that point. And even though it was at that early stage where you know, you read Google blogs and forums and they'll say, oh, you know, maybe that's normal. Ink when you know there's this problem, you just know. I went to work that day and I sat there and I just remember feelings. Oh, crushed. But not being able to verbalize. And so so strange that I wouldn't be able to verbalize that given, you know, the work I do and the team that I work within who are all incredibly supportive. But I just sat there in that that really kind of deep shame and melancholy feeling like I've done something wrong. And then sure enough, you know, results from the doctor came back and I bled some more and it was all confirmed that that pregnancy had been lost. And it was very early on, you know, and it was a, it was probably seven weeks or so into my pregnancy. But it was just this feeling I can't ever, I will never be able to properly verbalize how awful I felt at that point and how lonely I felt even though I do have incredible support around me. And you know, I remember really clearly going furniture shopping with my partner a couple of days later because we were moving into our first apartment together. And I just couldn't even look at anything. And I just set him, I gave him, you know, just total. Cut one. Show the ownership over the whole process. I was like, just you buy it all. I just, and I remember just sitting there in freedom furniture on one of the beds and just like being totally out of it. And so I think it has given me, you know, a perspective that I never necessarily wanted to have, but I do find quite valuable now and particularly in advocating for women that go through, you know, similar situations and more grave situations. So, you know, I don't, I don't necessarily regret having that experience, but I just think that it's also something that that needs to be so much more awareness and education around it and how we deal with it and how we, you know, push for people to be open about it and give people license to be open about it, which, you know, thankfully the pink elephants is doing so wonderfully. But, you know, there's a long way to go, which you would absolutely know. Huge, huge way to go. We'll let them pack a little bit about that with those feelings of shame and as if you can't articulate it and for someone like yourself, who is a verse and amazing at explaining things so that everyone understands them. That's what you do. You communicate things. I mean, did you expect that level of grief if someone had said to you about a mystery story, so what did you expect that level of shame? No, and I'd always been really pragmatic, I think, around that issue. When I think about it, I'm a very rational person, you know, so I have been like, I knew statistically it was quite likely for pregnancies to end that way. I'd obviously known other people who had experienced pregnancy loss. But I think when you're at that point, when you just really so wholeheartedly want that baby and then to feel that disappointment that just, and that sense that this might not happen for me now, you know, and again, I think that that's one of the things that you advocate for so amazingly around never telling women that it's going to happen for them or telling women that just because they've been pregnant, they'll be pregnant again. You know, it's not what you want to hear when you have gone through that. You kind of do need to sit in that grief and feel that and maybe even just connect with that feeling that you may not, it may not happen for you, you know, and yeah, I just I just think it's just nothing I could ever have thought to experience. And I don't think that I will ever feel anything quite the same. I'm sure I'll go through various traumas and griefs in my life. But that was a particularly brand. And I don't think that I was at all equipped for it. I don't think anyone could be properly equipped for it. But that's why we need to have so much more advocacy in place. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I don't think that's just part of the wider societal change. And part of our role with women's agenda is around breaking down stigmas and shames and all the different things that happen around women's health issues. And you will write so brilliantly about different things about that. And we understand that it is another women's health issue. Why is it doesn't just sit within women's health because as partners, they need support, grandparents that need support, children that need support as well and awareness around that. It is part of a women's health issue. And I guess probably want to understand your perspectives around the patriarchy, the society that we live in, and what that, I don't know, it's a big question, but how the patriarchy society that we live in plays into this minimisation of a women's health issue so that we have a lack of research, a lack of funding and lack of awareness. I mean, I think when we look at women's health broadly, whether it's fertility issues, pregnancy loss or menopause or heavy periods, endometriosis, any of these issues, they are under-resourced and under-researched. And we have so much ground to make there. And the reason it's under-resourced and under-researched is because it's historically been men in positions of power enacting policy in these spaces. And so it's little wonder that the focus has been on health issues that impact men, but not on those that impact women. And we're in a real predicament right now because there are so many spaces in which we need to funnel funding into really quickly within women's health. I'm glad to see there have been some gains in recent times and I do think that there has been a broader conversation shift around many of these issues, particularly around menstrual health and menopause and fertility loss. And I think a lot of employers are leading really proactively there, which is great to see. I know you guys do a lot of work with QBE, for instance, and I know that they've got some really great initiatives in place. But we see that a lot more regularly now where you see employers really jumping on the bandwagon knowing why it's so important to get behind, you know, and why it's so important to support women's health and women's wellbeing at work, because all of these things play into everything else and proactive culture and positive culture within workplaces. So that's really exciting to see. But I think I read a good piece recently and it was around the topic of if men were the ones to experience miscarriage. And I think some of the takeaways from that piece were really pertinent. For starters, I don't think that they would be called miscarriages. That plays into the very notion that it's a mistake or it's been mishandled that somehow we're at fault for that happening. And women, when they go through pregnancy loss, oftentimes they will be inward focusing and look at what they did do wrong. I know in my own case I was like, did I drink wine at a time that I wasn't meant to? Was I eating the wrong things? Did I jump up and down too hard? You know, you're just constantly questioning yourself. And that's already something that we're conditioned to do as women. So that's one thing. I think that there would be paid leave for pregnancy loss and miscarriage and any kind of fertility leave, actually. You know, any woman or family that's going through these processes need that support. And I think that that leave would have been in place. I know we're starting again to see the trickle of that a little bit, but I think that that leave would have been in place many moons ago. If this was an issue that happened to men, I think that there'd be better support infrastructure in place. There would be no financial cost to actually going through, you know, fertility treatments or, or, you know, anything to do with the aftermath of pregnancy loss. I think there would be better scientific research into why this is happening. Obviously we don't, we can't always find the answer. But I think there would be more funding and there would be more backing into that. So I think that there are so many things that we need to be clear on and understand in this space and that, you know, there is a reason why we now need to have our voices heard and be loud and advocate because, you know, we have been, we've been pushed into a space where we've had to be silent for a long time. And it was just normal for women to shut up and get on with it and deal with trauma by themselves and not talk to any kind of counsellor or even, you know, probably verbalise it within their own homes and communities. So I think it's nice to see a shift there, but I do think that it's going to take a long time. Yeah, look, couldn't agree more, but we have to start somewhere, right? And that's funny. I was doing this as well. I mean, I think that's really the way I was doing it. I think that's really the way I was doing it. The Magical Bellion is all around Insighting Action. We do what change. We have been silenced for too long and our experiences have been minimised for too long. If you had a Monday one and there was one thing that you could make happen today that would be righted for those that are going through this experience, what would that be? Actually I think that the biggest thing is probably to this day having the support networks in place across spaces and starting from a practitioner point of view. That's not to hang dirt on GPs. I think our healthcare system is overburdened a lot of the time and they don't necessarily have the time or the energy to be able to focus on individual cases. I think what happens when we don't have early advocates explaining things to us clearly is that we can go down rabbit holes of anxiety and stress. I just think there could be more done in that early period of people asking questions and perhaps having concerns or fears about their fertility to have people, advocates, health advocates be able to respond to that accordingly and to spend the time on what those fears are. Again, that's a matter of resourcing and funding. At the end of the day we need more funding and resourcing. We need to equip healthcare workers in the best way possible and we know again that they are so overburdened at the moment. That's really on the government to fix. We need that. It's funding and resourcing but it's for civic areas. It is understanding that gap that we have, that early intervention piece of, okay, this has just happened. Then this woman away with no support and nowhere to go to. She's going to just go to Google and there's some great things now on the internet but there's still some awful things, right? We'd like them to places that are evidence based and trusted first. How about we then also have a solo up, a checkup with them and you leave hospital with a baby in your arms and you get that six week post, you know, I'm checkup for your GP. Why? Doing that in this situation as well. It's not rocket science or this stuff as well. Ultimately, you've carried a baby and lost a baby. You still have that hormonal shift. There still should be a postpartum check in six weeks afterwards. Just to check. If anything, there's that wellbeing check. There's their physical symptoms to check. There's so much marks. But yeah, I know what you just said. Thank you. Oh, thank you. People don't talk about it but it's happening behind closed doors hidden behind smiling faces. There are so many people suffering in silence right now. And they're able to access the support that they need and deserve simply because they don't even know that they're is support available. The pink elephant's community is made up of people from all over Australia. Some come from the big smoke, others from the bush. Some of us have heaps of friends and family around, others have numb. Some have lost babies at five weeks, some had ectopic pregnancies. Some had multiple ultrasounds. Others only ever saw the two red lines on a positive pregnancy test. But we all have something in common. We have all lost a baby. We are all bereaved parents. There are estimated to be over 100,000 of us across Australia, very single year. Please help us connect with these people to give them the support that they deserve. No one should have to lose a baby and be left on their own to navigate their grief. Help pink elephants support more bereaved parents. Visit pinkelephants.org.au. And that's a wrap and I couldn't be prouder. I am here in incredibly grateful space to each and every one of you who's joined us with the miscarriage rebellion and the movement that it is. We couldn't have had the impact that we've had without your support. So I want to start with an up front acknowledgement and a thank you for each and every one of you that has signed a petition has wrote a letter to a federal MP to share the post as engaged with content on social media as referred a friend to access support via pink elephants. You're all doing your part in normalizing these conversations around miscarriage because we know that the impact of early pregnancy losses far more than just the its comment or the statistics or at least it happens early. We know that the impact is real to those of us grieving the losses of our babies and we know that we need to meet them all with validation, empathy and understanding. And you're really truly helping us to do that. We thought that it would be really special to share an update of the miscarriage rebellion campaign. And to kind of let you know where we've landed, I am recording this towards the end of November and we launched on the 1st of October. We 110% will be continuing on with the miscarriage rebellion in 2024 but where we are today as I said is a place of immense gratitude. We know that for too long the experience of miscarriage or early pregnancy loss has been minimised and our grief has been disenfranchised. We know that this can lead to serious long-term poor mental health outcomes. Women and their families deserve better. The losses of our babies deserve to be met with validation, empathy and understanding from health professionals, workplaces and community. The miscarriage rebellion is a movement delivered to a podcast to shine a spotlight on the gaps in our care. It intentionally tells the stories, the statistics, the stories behind the statistics. And that is on purpose to invoke empathy and insight action. And oh my, we have insight. It's so much action. I am so proud of all of us. In just one month the campaign is in thousands more women standing alongside us and calling for much needed change. I'm going to share some statistics with you but know that behind all of these statistics are real people accessing real support when they need it mouse and I couldn't be prouder. We've had over 9,756 people supported in our online communities. We've had over 12,000 people through our website, not just in one second views, staying on our website for longer than three minutes, accessing content that is relevant to them, supporting them on their journey. In one month we had 732 resources downloaded. We've reached over 207,000 people on Instagram and over 35,000 on Facebook. Remember every statistic has a face, a name and a story. Someone very real behind these numbers is accessing the support and the care that they deserve. That's what your movement, that's what your support of the miscarriage rebellion delivers support where it's needed. Our media impact was incredible and our largest today. We reached an approximate 102 million people with 1421 media mentions that were online stories from people like Mama Meir and Kira Rumble sharing her topic experience. People like Eber Costello, featuring our board member from Sek NuGate who was interviewed on Channel 7 News, Live News, which is incredibly intimidating today but she was brave enough to do that because she knew that the people we would reach for those that needed support. Incredible, incredible impact. I can't name all of the media but I'm really grateful for each and every one of you that have featured Pink Elephant. As I said, that was 1421 media mentions across online print, TV and radio. Incredible. We have taken this campaign into the community. We've had a partnership with JC Deco who were incredibly grateful for Fox. It's a pro bono partnership. Well that means we haven't been charged a fee which means the money that we make can go back to Pink Elephant Circle of Support. Through that partnership we have managed to reduce the share and stigma that starts around miscarriage by putting miscarriage into the community on huge billboards. I've had people texting me driving out from airports. I've had people walking to their train stations seeing the miscarriage rebellion and thanking us for starting a conversation where it's needed to be started most. We've also reached out to healthcare. We've had an incredible partnership with Tonic Health Media which has allowed us to put in resources and support into 3358 GP practices nationally. Again, meaning that if you're in a GP and you've just been given the diagnosis that you've lost your baby, you have immediate access to support and we know just how important that is to you. You've told us time and time again. We're doing our absolute best to make sure everyone has a clear referral pathway. Remember that within Australia, there is approximately one miscarriage every 5 minutes. Some of the quotes that we've taken through this campaign that I want to show with you today again to highlight that there are real people behind every statistics. As someone who has grieved a loss of 4 babies, I cannot recommend the support services of Pink Elephant Synos. There was nothing like this when I was going through my grief and it's nothing less than a miracle. I want my tax dollars going here. I have gone through recurring miscarriages and felt let down by the lack of support and processing our health system. There is more work to be done to support families and I'm sure additional and ongoing government funding for Pink Elephants will support this. Good luck and keep up the amazing work. Has a nurse who works in the Peri-Alphaative Department and who has to witness the trauma and pain that is incurred through miscarriage and early pregnancy loss. I can wholeheartedly say that any amount of support that Pink Elephants offering these women and their families is so vitally important and imperative. This is so important. Pink Elephants really helped after my miscarriage. I think it is especially important for people in rural and remote areas as we don't have access to mental health support available. On that, we know with which many of you in rural and regional communities because when you've signed our petition, you've left your postcode and we can say that the reach really is across Australia far and wide, as far into Brum, into Central Australia, into South Australia. Literally, I am amazed by the locations we've managed to reach and hopefully offer you that support that you need. We've had over 3,000 signatures in one month of our miscarriage rebellion campaign calling to funding for government so that we can increase our group therapy programs. As someone who experienced a devastation of early pregnancy loss and know what it's like to feel unsupported in alone, it wasn't until my 6th miscarriage that I found Pink Elephants and finally received the empathy and understanding that I had needed from the start of my journey into having a family. This funding will help to ensure that the empathy and understanding Pink Elephants provides which is so many more women and their families. I couldn't say it any better myself. This woman should not have had to wait till she had her 6th miscarriage before she found access to support. On her very first loss of that very first baby, she should have been given a referral to Pink Elephants' support. We should then be able to meet her and give up all of the support she deserves. We shouldn't have to place her on a wait list. We shouldn't have to say sorry, we can't fit you in this program. Please try again next time. That is what the miscarriage rebellion is about. We have taken this campaign. I have met with assistant health minister Jed Carney once again who is all ears and incredibly favourable about the work that we do at Pink Elephants and he's looking at ways that she can support us. We have a very real funding ask in front of the federal government of Australia to help us to bulk up to grow our circle of support so that it meets the demands of each and every one of you that reach out to us for support. We don't want to turn people away from our support programmes. We want to make sure that everyone here is brave enough to say, "I'm struggling. I need some support. I'm going through something. I'm not sure what to do." That we can say, "Hey, welcome. This is your safe space. This is where we can hold you. This is where we can give you all of that validation empathy and also some theory around what your experience in and some hope for the future. We can't do this alone anymore. For too long, I started Pink Elephants nearly eight years ago and we've managed to fund it based on generous donations on our workplace programme which we charge a fee for to large corporate organisations. And whilst that's incredible, and I'm hugely grateful of all of those donors that help us, it isn't growing quick enough and And that's why we have a very, very specific. Pacific asked to the federal government Department of Health where we're asking them to invest $1.6 million over four years with Pink Elephants to help us to grow our Pink Elephants bereavement support group therapy program. That's a program that we know you're applying for time and time again. Every time we put one little expression of interest out we have about 80 to 100 women apply and we can only put 12 through. It genuinely breaks all of our hearts at Pink Elephants when we have to say sorry we can't fit you in this program and we see you applying in the next time. It's incredibly, incredibly difficult for us. So we're asking for the Department of Health to fund that program so that everyone that applies, that is in the right space for that program that access that material that content that's sensitive, counseling program, with all of the love and empathy that it's delivered with that can access it that they're not being put on a wait list. So I'm really hopeful that in 2024 we'll be able to share with you the true impact that the Miss Carriage Rebellion has had because without all of you engaging in our content sharing it on social media, signing the petition, writing to your local MPs, we couldn't do this. So I just wanted to finish this season of the Miss Carriage Rebellion with a huge amount of gratitude. Keep listening because next year we will be starting again, we're hoping to have the podcast back in your ears in February 2024 with some more incredible. And on that I want to finish with a huge thank you to each and everyone of the brave women who have chosen to come on and be the first to speak up on the Miss Carriage Rebellion podcast to share their truths to share how they weren't met with the validation and the understanding that they should have been to share what changed they'd like to see for the future because without each and every one of them sharing their experiences with Stacy and I we wouldn't be able to shine a spotlight that we need to shine and it is honestly one of the hardest things to do to come on a podcast and share something so incredibly deeply personal whether you're someone with experience in the spotlight as a celebrity or not. It isn't easy to tell these stories because for too long they've been shrouded in shame stigma and silence. So to be willing to speak up is incredibly brave is incredibly courageous and it does make a huge difference we know from some of the comments from some of the listeners coming back to us that they feel seen. They feel heard in those stories and they feel that now they can start a conversation with someone about their experience of Miss Carriage. And honestly, Alex, breathing of gratitude to each and every one of you that have joined us in beginning this movement. We are just getting started just wait for 2024 when pink elephants continue to deliver more that each and every one of you who lose your baby to Miss Carriage or early pregnancy loss and deserve to be met with the validation and the thing and understanding that you deserve. We are going to normalize early pregnancy loss for everyone to see so that everyone understands how to support someone through loss because ultimately. All of our journeys may be individual but we don't believe that anybody should have to walk the journey of early pregnancy loss alone and unsupported. Thank you again i'm hugely grateful it's a brilliant space to be landing in as we close for the year. Look forward to connecting with you all again in the new year. Today's episode may have brought up some feelings for you that you need some support around that's totally okay. Head to pinkelephants.org.au to find access to our circle of support your safe space where you can be met with empathy and understanding throughout all of your experiences of early pregnancy loss. We're here for you you are not alone. If you enjoyed listening to the Miss Carriage Rebellion please help us by leaving a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. The Miss Carriage Rebellion is a pink Elephants podcast produced by our friends at three-page studio.