Episode 119 - An Interview with Sarah McCormick, Author of The Skunk Who Couldn't Smell

(upbeat music) - Hi everyone and welcome to the Smell Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Boating. This month joined me in a conversation with Sarah McCormick, author of The Skunk Who Couldn't Smell. Sarah and I talk about her story growing up with congenital anosmia due to Kalman syndrome. We talk about her journey to becoming a children's book author and how she and her husband decided to write The Skunk Who Couldn't Smell. A summary of the book taken from the back of the cover states, missing out stinks. Smellarella Skunkerton always knew she was different from the other skunks, but she was never sure why. When the smell of her mom's baking brings her siblings running to the kitchen, Smellarella realizes the problem. She can't smell. All right, let's jump in and listen to the interview. (upbeat music) - Hi Sarah, welcome to The Smell Podcast. How are you doing today? - Oh, I'm doing so good. Thank you so much for having me. - Yeah, I'm very excited to speak with you today. So to get started, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, where are you from and where are you located now? - Yes, so I actually live in Caledonia, Michigan. From Grand Rapids, Michigan, which honestly, it's like 20 minutes apart. So ultimately, I still live where I grew up. - Let's see, I actually don't know that I've ever been to Michigan. - No, oh well, right now it's cold, it's winter. I imagine it's not that it was someday. Yes, so can you tell us a little bit more about your Anos Mia story? - Yes, I would love to. So that my, I think everybody's story, as I know a little bit unique. So I was about eight and it's funny because of work later on, we're gonna chat about the book that I wrote, but really my story is almost exactly representative of the book. So about eight years old, my siblings set me down and they put me through a smell test because I told them I couldn't smell and they just have to leave me. So they blindfolded me and put me through a smell test. They hand me smell things like pizza and other things. And I would tell them, listen, I can't smell this. And they do not believe me. So they took then chemicals and they put them underneath my nose and because I moved my head, because the chemicals, they just burned the inside of my nose and I could move my head. They all said, "Ah, see, told you, told you you were lying." So they then did not believe me to which then, of course, I went to my mom and I was like, "Hey, I can't smell my siblings, they're being punks." And so my family's a big, big into baking. My mom is a huge baker. She's always been just baking and cooking and she goes, "You know what, right?" You know what, Sarah, for as long as I can remember, I don't ever call you saying, "Hey, that bread smells good or those cookies smell so good, I can remember all your other siblings being able to smell." But not you. And so she took me to the doctor, the ear note and throat specialist to which they didn't have great answers for me. It was ultimately just kind of like, "Yeah, she either has no sense of smell or she either has no ol' factory bulb or it's broken." They didn't really have a big, big and tell me why, per se, but it was just like, "Yeah, that's just how she is." They're like, "Okay." And then I actually have a common syndrome as well. So but we didn't know about that until years later. So, you know, around the time that you're 13, 14 and you'd get your cycle, your cycle would start, I never got mine. And so my mom then, of course, brought me to an OBGYN. To where she had no idea why, right? And it was like, "Oh yeah, she's just a late bloomer. It'll come sort of thing." And years later, still never came. - I'll just say. - Yeah. And then really what was funny kind of how we discovered I'd come in syndrome is I was in college by that point. I was just entered college as 18. And I was in a psychology class. And the professor had said something about how, and I don't know if this is still true, but how women's cycles tend to sync up, like women who are around each other maybe on a basketball team together or something that their cycles tend to sync up because of something related to being able to smell. And so everybody kind of gets in sync and I was like, "Wait a second. I can't smell." And you know, I don't have a period. So we went to, or my mom happens to work with my OBGYN at the same hospital. So she ran into her the next day. And the OBGYN was like, "Oh my gosh, I know what Sarah has. She's got a common syndrome." So it was just kind of fun how that came about. - Wow. So you actually still had a started a period by 18. And they had just kind of told you. - Yeah, they were getting-- - Actually. - They were getting ready to kind of put me, I don't say put me under, but you know, start to do more like digging in to see why it's what happened or what's going on sort of thing. So it's kind of funny story. I have a sister-in-law who's an OBGYN. And she, of course, is sort of a common syndrome. And she said, "It's funny because it's on all of their OBGYN like all their boards to pass or their tests." That's always like a question that stumps everybody is like the common syndrome. But she said, "It's a question on every single exam is like, you know, the correlation or like what does your patient have if they can't smell?" And they have knock on their period. - Wow. So you'd think that they would have been more familiar with that? - Right. I would think so. Yeah, but although who knows, you know, that was-- I don't know. I'm 38 or 39. So 20 years ago, so who knows maybe times it changed. - Yeah. Well, how frustrating to be kind of-- I don't know what's the right word. Dismissed for such a long time about what was actually happening to you and probably confusing to you as well. Right. Well, it's also going to funny because it's one of those things that you're like, well, from what I've heard from everybody, I actually probably don't want my period. So, you know, OK, that's OK. That's OK to not have it sort of thing. - Right, right. Yeah, well, let's switch gears. And I'd like to hear more about your book. So it's recently been published, I believe. The book is called "The Skunk Who Couldn't Smell." So can you tell us a little bit about the book? And then maybe the behind the scenes for you. How did you decide to write this book? - Yeah, I would love to. So yes, we published it in September of 2023. So I'm not too long ago. And really the idea behind it is my husband had said, hey, Sarah, like, let's try to maybe make a story or a children's story and put it out there just as a hobby. Maybe we can kind of generate some extra income. And I kind of dismissed him. And I was like, nah, we're not going to do that. We're not writers. We're not authors. We're not-- that's not our job. We're both, I should say, we're both currently in working in IT. So we're both very technical. And I'm like, yeah, that's not the world we live in, Michael. Let's move on. And then a couple of days later, I kind of had the idea of like, hey, you know what? We could probably write a story about what I went through with not being able to smell. Because in my experience, this is the only book we've written. But it seems a lot easier to write a book on your own experience versus trying to make something up per se, right? That takes a lot more creativity than building something off of your own experience. We kind of started the process. I will tell you, Katie, the first several drafts were all whole. If you've never written a book before, you don't know what you're doing. And you're like, wow, this is awesome. And then we worked with the editor. And she'd be like, no, try again. Re-do. So it's just a lot of back and forth with the editor to really kind of get it to where we wanted it. But going forward, we learned a lot from our editor of what we should be including, kind of how we should be writing things. She would tell us a lot. Sarah, like, you got to show versus tell. You don't just tell them that your character was sad. You've got to show that they were sad using descriptive language. So we learned a lot through that process. And really, we've already kind of started on a second book. And I even feel like just the first draft of our second book is already miles ahead of where we were when we wrote our first book. Yeah, I mean, no one knows how to do something until they do it, right? So I think that's pretty awesome that you guys pursued it anyway. Yes. Yeah, it was definitely a lot that we learned a long way. But it was really cool to work with the illustrators that we worked with. They actually aren't in the United States. And so, but it was kind of cool to connect with them. And the illustrator that is just-- she does amazing work. I don't know how illustrators are so creative, but they are. I would just tell her, like, all right, I'm Jenny. I'm like, I want it to look like kind of like this, right? And I just give her a very generic description. And then she'd come back with like all these really cool characters or features. And I'm like, how did you get that off of the one sentence that I gave you? But it was fun to see that creative process. So I imagine that the book is about a skunk who can't smell, right? Can you tell us a little bit more about the storyline? Yes. Yep, yep. So it is about, as a kind of-- a little bit earlier. It's about me and what I went through. So really it starts off the character's name. It's Snellarilla, Skunkerton. And it really starts off with her kind of realizing that she can't smell things like bread and cookies and then she goes on her own little investigation to kind of figure out, well, are there other things I can't smell? So she kind of goes out around town and she tries smelling flowers and a pig pen and she even tries kind of stunking a dog to which she realizes she can't smell that either but she knows that it stinks because the dog, the dog sure could smell it. And then it kind of journeys into her telling her brother who we have called him sneaky Pete, who she tells sneaky Pete to which sneaky Pete puts her through just all series of smell tests, ultimately. And then it really ends with the mom of Skunkerton coming home, Smellarilla telling her like, hey, I can't smell my siblings don't believe me. They bring bring her to the doctor to where the doctor, you know, says, hey, yep, you're right, you don't have an olfactory bulb. And then it kind of the very ending, it kind of puts a fun twist on it per se like the one of the characters Stingarina ends up kind of spraying the whole van on accident. And then she kind of notices all of her siblings have their heads out the window, just kind of gagging at the smell, but she's like, hey, you know what, maybe not being able to smell isn't all that bad. And it kind of is a nice twist of like, you know what, we're all unique in our own way. And, you know, does she wish you could smell sure? However, there's definitely benefits to it. So the next thing I'd like to ask you about the book is actually where can people find it? Yes, so it can be found mostly on Amazon if you're local, then I do a lot of local readings. And I also the book locally, but yeah, Amazon is your place to go just type in the skunk who couldn't smell and we sell it there for $5. That's awesome. Also, I should say there's also a ebook version and if you have a Kindle unlimited, then it is free as well. And I will just say I love reviews. So if you're listening and you want to leave a review for me, it would be highly appreciated. Awesome. Yeah, we'll make sure we reiterate that at the end as well to get people to go and read it. Actually, have it on Kindle unlimited? Oh, perfect. I've seen the illustrations and they are really cute. They're the best. They're really adorable. So, okay, we'll make sure to link out to that at the end for people. Going back to your experience growing up with Anosmia, do you have something that stands out to you as like a most memorable experience with it or something that's was funny in regards to your Anosmia? Sure. So I would, I could I share two different things? Yeah, okay. Okay. Okay. Perfect. So, I was thinking about this yesterday and I thought, okay, I feel like I have a both a funny one and then one to me that's maybe more memorable per se and the funny one is my husband and I have been married for about three years now. But right before we got married, we, I was living in my apartment and he came over and he was going to quick take a shower and so I put chicken in the oven and I happened to put it on a tray that did not have like sides on it and the chicken got juicy as it does and it started to spill over into the oven. And of course, I can't smell that the oven is ultimately on fire and smoking everywhere. So my husband, no, well, you know, boyfriend of time comes out and is like, oh my gosh, like our oven is on fire. Just fire everywhere in the oven. We had to open it up with a thorough step on it. The fire alarms are going off. To me, that was a funny story for me. And then kind of a more memorable one is I was about 24 at the time and I just moved home from Nebraska and I was moving with my parents for a little while and I was cleaning the bathroom. In the toilet, I mixed two different chemicals. I didn't think anything of it. And so I'm cleaning the way the bathroom and I'm noticing that I'm getting like a little light headed. Okay, I don't know. And so I go to open up the toilet seat and I start like gagging because there's just so much. This the fumes from the chemicals. I've been like inhaling for, you know, probably 20 minutes at this point. So I run out of the bathroom and my parents come in and they're like, they can smell it. So they're, oh my god, you know, like get out of your like, go outside, try to get fresh air. I ultimately ended up with chemical burns all in my lungs because apparently the two the two chemicals I had mixed had apparently made some like mustard gas. Oh my god. Yes. So. Don't mix chemicals together is what I've learned. Yeah, but yeah, there's definitely a lot of those things that people don't think about when they think like, oh, you can't smell that must be great. Like, yes, there's definitely benefits, but there's a lot more things that are scary, right? That you could like have my husband not vending their apartment. And but if, okay, do that's like on fire, like what's going on? Like that? Or you know, the chemical stuff, like it just you never know. You kind of put yourself in danger all the time. Yeah, I actually have a really similar story to that when I was in college. I was moving out of an apartment and I was cleaning my bathroom. It was winter, I think, or maybe the window pane didn't open for some reason. I don't remember why, but I wasn't, I didn't open the bathroom window. So I was like spraying bleach cleaning spray like all over this bathroom and just like go into town and didn't wear a mask while I was doing any of this. And I just remember like all of a sudden I was like, I don't feel well. Like I have a headache. And then my friend came in and he was like, you need to get out of here. Like, did you dump the whole bucket of bleach? Like get out of this room. And I think he opened the windows. Maybe I just hadn't opened it for some reason. Like he opened the window and I went out front. And but I had a terrible headache for the rest of the day. And that wasn't me making mustard gas, but it was just bleach cleaning spray being like too strong. And I didn't know similar to what you're saying. Like I just had no idea. So I just was in there cleaning until all of a sudden I didn't feel good. Right. Yeah. It's crazy things to think about for those of us who can't smell. Yeah, no. I know what interests it is. Yeah. So the next thing I want to ask you about is whether or not you self-identify us having a disability because of your anosmia. And to preface this question, there's no right or wrong answer. I'm just curious in how people feel about it. Yeah. So this is also you've been asking me a lot of doozy doozy type questions. I'm like, oh man, I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to answer that one. So I will say that I have never actually come out and said, you know, I would consider it to be a disability. I've never on all the forms out there where I've never remarked it as like, yes, I have a disability. But with that said, if you actually, you know, look at the word of disability and what it means, I certainly meet that criteria. So like we just talked about with me setting our stove on fire. Like there are certain things that I'm limited to. So for example, could it be a firefighter? I want to be a smell of that sort of stuff or I tried to get into the Navy way long ago and they, right, I got denied because I was like, no, I think it was a certain position I was looking for. But they're like, oh, no, you're not being able to smell the hindrance. You know, that wouldn't be an option for you. Wow. So you're able to join the Navy for that? Yep. So I definitely feel like there are certain things you can't do. But then, you know, I'm sure that there are jobs so that I could do. For example, I could go be, you know, a trash collector or a person who goes and picks up debts like dates, skunks or right and stuff that where it smells, does not bother you. So you definitely maybe have openings there. But there's definitely more of an negative impact on jobs you couldn't do. Yeah, it's really interesting. I think that, personally, I think it is a disability. I think that there's an interesting conversation around this word and like the inausity of community. Some people are comfortable saying that it is and some people are very uncomfortable with that. Some people even feel angry if you say that you have a disability because of an auspia. And I'm not quite sure where that comes from, but I do find it fascinating. Yeah. And I wonder if it's because, you know, whenever you've asked people, hey, what is if you were to lose a sense, which one would you lose? And I feel like nine times out of ten, they'll tell you smell, right? Because it's like, well, you know, do I want to see or do I not want to be able to smell sort of thing? Right? There's much rather not be of the smell than not be able to see. So I wonder if that's maybe where some of the rub comes in where it's like, well, you know, that's on the lower end of the disability range. I wonder if that's why some people kind of maybe like you said, take offense to it. But then I wonder if there's maybe people who are on the flip side of that where people may take offense if you don't say it's a disability because I've been fortunate enough to not have a lot of like, you know, really anything bad happened to me. But there certainly could be people out there who maybe half had bad stuff happen to them because they couldn't smell. There's a paper and I don't know the title of it, but someone that I know in this community doctor Rachel Hershey focuses on like, well, faction and emotions and her and some of our colleagues did a study where they asked people whether they would rather lose their sense of smell or like a physical object like something that was important to them. And a lot of the people, I should know the percentages better before I start talking about these things, but that's okay. I can look it up and include it, but many people actually said that they would rather lose their sense of smell than give up their cell phone. Really? No. Yep. I'll send it to you. And I'll include it in the episode notes so that people can click on it and read about it if they're interested. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's crazy to me because I don't, yeah, those are the people who just don't understand what it's like to know of a sense of smell because there's like, I'm going to talk about this later, but like one of the things that's probably, because I think you'd ask me like, what I want to share with people who don't have an ass. Exactly. Yeah, that's my next question for you is. Oh, perfect. So what do you, what would you share with people about what it's like to live with an ass? Yeah. And that's, I did a post on this the other day on my social media and that's for me the biggest thing with having an ass. And yeah, is I am anxious all the time about smelling. I'm worried that I'm going to be out in public and then I'll be sticky and people are going to not want to tell me because they're going to think like, oh, I don't want to tell Sarah that she smells. So then walking around smelly, I've got, you know, my poor husband has asked constantly to smell my clothes or, you know, our food, just all these things. And I, and having that anxiety about smelling, if you like just almost makes it worse because then you're anxious and then you start to splat, well, then you start to probably smell more because you're so great. Yeah. So I feel like there's just that constant pressure of like, or you know, if somebody's getting in your car, I always tell them, I can't. I promise you, there's not stinky. I mean, I'm not a dirty person. My car is actually quite clean, but I don't know. Like I drink a lot of protein shakes and maybe I left a protein shake in there overnight and maybe it just stinks really bad. I don't, I don't know. So that to me is the biggest hindrance for me is that just kind of anxiety, the idea with daily of like, oh, am I smelly? I don't know. Right. It's a real fear. Yeah. It doesn't help. Oh, go ahead. I was just going to say it doesn't help that I had an ex-husband who would, he would not be very nice about it if I did if I was stinky. He'd be like, oh, man, you stink. Like, okay, maybe, maybe say it nicely. You maybe be like, oh, yeah, I wouldn't wear that. Or you know what? Yeah. Yeah, maybe put a different outfit on. Or I don't know. So that probably didn't help. That probably illustrates why he's an ex-husband. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So one question that I'm really interested in asking people who have congenital in osmia is, if you could have a sense of smell, would you want one? I think I absolutely would. I would love to be of the smell all the different things that somebody asked me the other day. And this is the first time I've ever been asked it. But they asked, what would you smell? If you could smell, what's the one thing that you would like to smell? Which I was like, oh, gosh, I don't know. But since I've never smelled before, I'm like, I don't know. So I said pizza because I absolutely love pizza. I'm going down the rabbit hole. What was the question again? No, I was asking about if you could have a sense of smell. Yes. Thank you. The answer is absolutely yes. I would love to be able to just smell all the things out there. I'm sure if you were to say, okay, Sarah, we're going to turn it on tomorrow. There might be an adjustment period because I'd be like, what the-- what are all these things hitting my nose right now? But it's pretty awesome. Even for me, without a sense of smell, it's just like, I do love pizza. Being able to smell it, just like the flavor perception of it is even better. So yeah, I agree with you. Pizza is pretty great. Yeah. So I want to hear your story because I know I'd write up a little bit. So you had-- you were able to smell. And then you had an accident, right? Is that correct and then you lost it? No, so I did lose it, but my situation is that I was in college and I had an upper respiratory infection. I was sick for several weeks, maybe even like a month. It was quite a long time over my first-- like the first winter of college. And then at some point in that spring, when we got back to school after winter break, I realized that I wasn't able to smell anymore. So that's when my journey started. And I went to like the doctor and long story short. I was sort of left with good luck with your life. Oh. Oh my goodness. You don't need to come back for anymore appointments, right? Because it's like there's no-- that's the other thing. Somebody asked me about like, is there a cure? I'm like, nothing. I know. Like, you know, at least I don't know. If you're-- No, there's no. You can maybe have the cochlearium plants. Like if you're-- if you can't smell, there's nothing that I've ever known about that-- that will allow us to ever smell. Yeah, and that's actually one of like the most frustrating things for me when I speak to people. If I went to-- I wear glasses. So like if I go to the eye doctor and I said, I can't see, they would do something about that, right? They would test my eyes. They would figure out what was going on. They would make a plan. They would give me glasses. They would give me surgery. Like, there would be something done about that. And for some reason, we don't do that for smell. I became an ozmic in 2009 and I was never given an objective smell test, like those scratch and sniff smell tests, ever. So no one actually tested me. I had like an MRI in a CT scan, but no one actually tested the sense of smell, which is baffling, right? And so it just blows my mind a little bit that we're doing that daily to people who show up and say, I can't smell. Can you help me? And the answer is no. And then they're just like sent on their way, right? So the analogy I'm trying to make here is if I showed up and I couldn't see, I wouldn't be allowed to leave and drive, right? Like they would be accommodations for me. Like people would do something. They would help me. But we're not doing that for people without a sense of smell. Right. And I think that goes back to, you know, it was really uncommon. But of course, it's helped a little bit because it's a lot more common now. People like, oh, yeah, I joke because my sister always tells me that I'm patient zero of COVID because I can't smell, which I got. But I think it just goes back to, because it's so uncommon that it's kind of like, you know, I have no idea what even the percentage of people who can't smell is. I'm sure it's very small. So it's kind of like, well, do we want to focus on that? Or do we have maybe some of these other bigger fish to fry and focus on, you know, maybe some of the other disorders or diseases out there that are impacting more people? Yeah. Well, I mean, to your point, we don't actually know how many people are affected by smell and taste disorders because we don't do objective smell testing. Right. So like when you go to your primary care provider each year, you get things checked like you're hearing your vision, you do those types of standardized testing, but we don't do that for smell or taste. So we don't know. Well, it's curious to me. So we're both, I think, in that congenital and as a group on Facebook. And a lot of the folks in there, they've said how, you know, they go to the doctor and sometimes they even actually know more about it than the doctors do themselves because it's, you know, it's something that, you know, we're invested in it and we're like, oh, what's this? Or how does that work? Or, you know, the doctors a lot of times maybe don't have answers because it's not on high and that priority list. Exactly. Same goes true with the comments from Joe Murray. That's even more where I'll be really curious to see how like for me as I get older, how that impacts me. Like I've been told I'll have probably like put our bones and that sort of thing. But so far, I see normal, but I'm only 39. But there's no real research out there of like, okay, this is what you can expect Sarah when you're 59 and 69 and 79. Like for example, I like all of you men of all. I have no idea. Right. Things like that. So my one of the final questions for you is, do you have anything else about your story or about the book that you wrote or anything that you'd like to share? I don't think so. I think we covered it all. But I just, I think maybe the one final thing I could add is I just, I want to spread awareness about it, which is why I wrote the book when I write, when I go chat with them, not chat, but when I go read the books to the kiddos, it always comes up that the book is based off of me and I can't smell. And the kiddos are like, wait, what? You can't smell? Like nothing? How about pizza? How about right? They'll list off 20 things. And they just, they can't wrap their minds around not being able to smell. So I think it'd be great to just kind of continually, continuously bring awareness to the fact that there's a whole group of us out there who can't smell. Yeah, absolutely. And then the final thing that I'd like to ask is about how can listeners get connected with you on social media? Yes. I have two, two main accounts. One on Instagram, one on Facebook. I would say my one on Instagram, I try. to put more there because I'm trying to grow in your social media accounts as tough. This is what I'm learning. So I'm more active on my Instagram one, which is @TheScokerTens. And then on the Facebook account, it's "Smaller or less" "ScokerTens" is my one there. Awesome. I'll make sure to include links to those so that people can go and check them out. So I'd like to say thank you so much for coming on today and speaking with me about your own story growing up with congenital anosmia. But also about your book, "The Skunk Who Couldn't Smell." I'm hoping everyone who's listening will go out and get themselves a copy so they can read it and maybe share it around with kids in their own family. And Sparta, we're going to ask about this condition. Awesome. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to meet with me. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for joining today. You're welcome. Have a good one. Thank you to Sarah for joining the podcast and sharing her story with us. Please check out her book, "The Skunk Who Couldn't Smell." Co-written with her husband, Michael Smith, on Amazon. I'll include a link to that in the episode notes. During the interview, I mentioned an article which was co-written by doctors Rachel Hers and Martha Baycheck. And the title of the article is, "Your Money or Your Sense of Smell." A comparative analysis of the sensory and psychological value of olfaction. The specific statistic that I couldn't quite recall during the interview was that 19% of those surveyed would rather give up their sense of smell than their cell phone. All link to the article in the episode notes so you can read more about it if you'd like. Thanks for listening to the podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. The goal of the show is so that you know you're not alone. If you found it helpful to you in any way, please leave a review so you can help others find the podcast. You can check out "Smell Podcast merchandise available on the website, thesmellpodcast.com." If you're interested in rocking some gear, visit the website to order. Until next time, have a wonderful day.