In this podcast conversation, the host and guest, Tyler, reminisce about their initial connection through a church discovery group and emphasize the importance of genuine father-son dialogues. Tyler recounts his upbringing in a Methodist household, where his father was a spiritual leader, but he experienced resentment and rebellion during his youth. He describes a phase of legalistic faith in his early teens, fueled by social aspects of church, which later shifted to atheism and substance abuse as he struggled with perfectionism and identity. Tyler explains how alcohol and drugs provided a false sense of belonging and relaxation, leading to a period of turmoil. The discussion underscores the challenges of navigating faith, family expectations, and personal flaws, ultimately highlighting themes of grace, maturity, and healing through relationships and spiritual growth. Both speakers reflect on their past mistakes and the transformative power of understanding and patience in their journeys.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the WBF podcast. I'm here with Tyler Lloyd Tyler. How are you pretty good man? Pretty good. It's good to have you on thanks for being willing to do this man. Yeah, absolutely You know, I I tell people whenever they're like how do you know Tyler? I'm like we did discovery together and then you know I'm Jody and I are so terrible. That's like where we let it stop, you know, we should have tried to Reach out to you guys more because I remember in that season We were needed in some friends and it would have probably been good to surround ourselves with some people who are getting familiar with the church at that time but you know I reached out to you to do it and then you told me you listened to the first ever episode and I was like oh no The first episode that's crazy. What do you think? Yeah, I loved it man. That's So when I saw it was you and your dad. I was like I'm in. Yeah, yeah, there's a there's something to Just father and son dialogue, especially as real as that was that I mean, it's It's we need more of it, so yeah You know when you did say that over text I was going back through a text just before you got here and you said It's always good to see like a dad and a son having like a real conversation or something along those lines But I know you said a real a real conversation and that really stuck out to me and it's highlighted to me Like how blessed I am to be able to have like a real conversation with my dad. Yeah, so many people feel like they can't Have that conversation But when that sticks out to you there a reason it sticks out to you is it because your relationship with your dad is good or what what what makes that Stick out. Yeah, so I had I had a my dad was kind of the I mean, he was the spiritual leader in our household and he Made sure every Sunday we were in church. I grew up going to a Methodist church. Okay, and You know, I'll be honest man. I could not stand my dad for a long time because he was to me So we my parents had five kids and my younger brother and I were The last of the Mohicans, you know, we we were like I'm something like 18 years younger than my older sister So wow. Yeah, they they really spread things out and Anyway, by that point in time, you know, I think like they're just kind of older they're trying to raise two young kids and I just found myself resemble a lot of times, you know, which isn't I guess completely unusual for a spoiled entitled little kid like myself, but As I got older though, I and especially now in my dad's been been he passed away a few years ago from from cancer. So especially now You know, it's just it's it It's different when I see people with their dads. It's like, you know, there is Something about that that I took for granted, you know, it was fortunate enough and in my kind of Story, you know to be able to tell my dad some of those things and tell him that he was right about a lot of the things that he He'd tried to impart to me. Yeah, but You know, I wish wish I had more of that. So yeah, I think it is a normal thing for most people to go through is like some kind of Rebellious phase where you know, I've talked about it on here before. I definitely took my upbringing for granted A lot and whenever I was a kid, I didn't really question that much You know, like I wasn't like an introspective kid some of these people talk about their like thoughts as a kid Like man, you were introspective. I just kind of went with it, you know like whatever You know, whatever was told to me. I was doing so church was just life Now as I got older, I kind of started not wanting to go as much But really the rebellion came in with like With like drugs and like my friends wanting to do stuff that I knew was wrong and and that's whenever I became resentful and Justifying my life and you don't know any better and all this stuff and and so how old was your dad when when you were born? That's an excellent question and I should know the answer. I guess he was close to 40 Yeah, and so my dad it's a crazy story he He was a manager and McDonald's for a long time. Okay. He was raising my My oldest siblings and at some point in time he decided that he wanted to go Back to school and he went to dental school In the early 90s shortly after I was born. I think he graduated in 91 and so he joined a dental practice and started Started doing dentistry man, you know, and it was That's that's the the I guess the ironic thing is I had no reason to be resentful and no reason to go through Kind of rebellious phase, you know, and I I would imagine that most people are in the same boat, you know whether they feel like they have a reason or not it's Hindsight it's probably not valid But I certainly didn't because I have two parents that are happily married Dad has a great job, you know, he's gone out of his way Near 40 years old to go back to school to better himself to provide for his family and yet still You know, I just always feel like I am Somehow different distinct like I don't fit in, you know or um I'm always trying to either Be at the top of the heap or I'm seeing myself at the very bottom. I don't have a realistic view of Of where I am relative to Everyone else that makes sense. Yeah, high highs and low lows, man That can be tough, you know, I think That resentfulness like It's so hard when you're that age to see past the bubble you're in You're just in this life bubble that it's so hard to explain you try to explain it to these kids growing up now And they just don't they don't get it But as you get older the more you see like man, I was just so I was so not thinking about the fact that My dad went to school to better. I didn't you know, I didn't think about my dad You know providing for us the way he provided for us I was just thinking of the things I couldn't do the things that made me different the things that Other kids were just getting to do whenever they wanted to and I had these rules and instructors and Religion but really my parents had a good relationship with God I just saw it as religious, you know what I mean? And everyone comes to that coming of age moment where you know your faith is tested for yourself Like you have to find God you have to find Jesus for yourself And so did that take you a while with this resentment you have what was your relationship with God like earlier? Yeah, so the kind of the ironic part is that It on Sundays we were basically just dragged to church You know insert insert classic joke here will be in drug church, but I think when I was in middle school and in early on in high school There was this I don't know if you've ever heard of it There was this college named asberry college and it's a seminary school and it's near Lexington But I'm not sure exactly. Maybe it's Wilmore, Kentucky Anyway, asberry would have every year they would have this Three-day music festival. Hmm. I remember like POD came and if you remember the old school Christian bands jars of clay was there one year um And it was just awesome and so I was in youth group and stuff like that so I I went and man I I thought I was really on fire for Jesus because I'm getting into youth group There's awesome music around um And I've got I've got all these these friends, you know that I'm that I'm hanging out with and I didn't have the ability at that point in time to kind of separate The the social aspect of church. Hmm. That was my church at that age youth group I didn't have the ability to separate the social aspect of it with the true relationship with Christ And so that never really matured but if you would have asked me at 13 or 14, I would have said man, I'm on fire You know, I'm all in and What I really ended up having was this kind of legalistic approach to I would call it religion at that point in time right and um What that showed me is that From experiences that if I approach Religion or try to approach a relationship in a legalistic way I'm gonna quickly get burned out because I'm not able to white knuckle perfection Yeah, and even as a 14-year-old that was incredibly frustrating And and so kind of from there the way that it got tested was that I just decided man if I can't do this right I'm not gonna do it at all. Yeah, and so I found reasons and this is where the rebellion really kicks in with With mom and dad. I found reasons to start rejecting my upbringing and You know early in high school 15-16 somewhere in that era If you would have talked to me about it. I would have I would have told you I am an absolute atheist I loved, you know, having battles with Christians because I thought I can logically Outdo you, you know, and what I Obviously failed to realize at the time was that that was The pendulum swinging back the other direction as a result of my my new resentment that I'd form towards What I thought I'd form towards God. Mm-hmm that yeah Yeah, man, it's like that's such you hit on such a good point there and it hit home with me so hard is that that age you realize I can't do this right like I'm gonna mess up. I'm gonna fall short of this mark. I'm going to sin If I can't do this thing wholeheartedly then like what's even the point? I remember asking my question myself that question all the time You're just confronted with this decision This almost legalistic way of looking at it where you're just like constantly aware of your flesh But then you have this on fire moments with with these worships services and everything you're one second You're on fire the next you're falling so short and it's like the enemies in your ear saying you'll never perfect this Yeah, but it's like not for us to perfect right like Christ perfects us So we've like died of that we have to die to that but at that age it's so hard to know that and to steward that Yeah, and I and I definitely don't want to come across Critical about I'm very grateful for the church that we go to now because you know, I think I'm also just I come hungry and ready to learn, you know, whereas 13 14 years old I probably didn't but I I don't remember Gidding the concept of it's not by my might it's only by his spirit right so I think what I was What I was getting it at those that that music festival and certain points was Glimpses of the spirit, but I didn't have a a framework Through which to process that or know that that's what it was yeah, and so instead what I depended on was just What I thought I knew which is like The law, you know the Torah go back to the rules yeah, I tell I tell everyone right now I've been listening to the series on sin and it's called free from sin it's back heathmore And he tell he tells everyone to go home and read Romans 5, 6, 7 and 8 and I advise it to I just read through 7 last night And I'm going to reach chapter 8 probably tonight and reread through it a couple times, but this I'm having a revelation Of sin and like what it is and like like what can we do and where are our hearts in it and stuff and it's really a fascinating Topic to dive into but for me I went to face center since I was like eight years old So like I grew up with the church like this my whole life I think there is something that comes with maturity and also like the right heart like you were just talking about And kind of growing into that okay now. I'm ready, you know what I mean? I'm ready to receive this But isn't it so interesting how as a kid you can go from if someone asked you at 14 You'd be like I'm on fire and then at 16 someone could ask you and you'd say I'm completely opposite. Yeah It's like in our brains like to convince ourselves. We have to justify it to the point of words like okay If I can't do this 100% then God's just not even real And you would even like take pleasure in arguing that you know what I mean Yeah, and and I think the fact in hindsight the fact that I took pleasure in arguing it was just a clear indication of my anger, you know I Hot take I don't even know if atheism is a real thing I don't know that that actually exists. I think yeah You know that's a rabbit hole but Anyway, we love rabbit holes on the show don't worry about it Yeah, I just think a lot of times what it is is a Manifestation of undelt with anger. Mm-hmm. I haven't I haven't seen any evidence and I've heard a lot of atheists try to debate and I haven't really seen any evidence that Convinces me otherwise but But yeah, so I guess shortly after that I got into Drugs got into alcohol and even though I did have a you know last thing I ever want to do is is throw any of my family under the bus but I'm just gonna tell you my story as it is and We I grew up in a tradition that was you know very much about going to church on Sunday but also not afraid to have a few glasses of wine on Saturday and so We I guess I like to say it like this like we took this trip every year for as long as I can remember in july when we go to north carolina we go to the coast there hang out with some family for a week and it was It's still one of the highlights of the year but Growing up what I would see is that when everybody goes on this trip you know they're drinking corona they're drinking Whatever they're drinking and everybody's having a good time and they all look forward to this trip just as much but they They've got something different going on You know they they seem to be looking forward to it for more reasons than just The ocean and the sand and the you know the beautiful weather like they are getting something I'm not out of this so I I would see that and I was like hmm that's interesting I wonder Wonder what that's like and so I grew up with this association that that drinking is A way you relax. Yeah, and So I get to 16 17 whatever age it is and it's like well let's relax, you know and I I remember the very first time that I drank Just thinking that I'd figured it out man because for as long as I could remember even when I was in youth group It was always like I said top of the heap or bottom It was always a competition it was up I Left to my own devices and in my flesh. I am The center of my universe, you know, it's just selfish and self-centered and So when I finally had that first drink I Didn't care and all the sudden like I it's I wasn't Not enough, you know, I felt like Okay, yeah people actually do they they like me just for me they In fact, I make them better the fact that I'm here, you know, so I had all of these And I've heard it said like 10 foot tall bulletproof, you know those types of moments where I just felt complete yeah, and Yeah, I mean there was an immediate love affair with alcohol after that Yeah, you know when you talking about this like top of the heat bottom feeling I remember I went to private school until middle school So like it's very small like 12 kids in my class So I remember when I went to middle school like I didn't fit in with like the top of the heat like the preppy like the popular kids I fit in more with the bottom of the heat with kids who are already kind of like Talking about drugs or you know, I didn't see any of it until maybe closer to high school or right around that seventh eighth grade Yeah, I can't really tell you exactly but You know, Pastor Garrett taught the youth. It's been probably a long time now. We talked to them about seeds And you know with substances Sometimes you don't even have to do it to like so a seed in your heart like you're talking about you're like seeing them Like they're they're having a good time with drinking like they're not just here to just you know paddle board or like float or whatever they're here to like have a good time and drinking is like the equation like it's the addition symbol It's that whatever it's it's in there somewhere And I remember like I had glorified marijuana before I'd even smoked it like I just I'd see my brother doing it I'd seen it around and I was like oh that's cool like that's a cool thing to do And so before I even like hit it once I had decided I liked it And so when you go into a substance like that especially alcohol because it's kind of harder to Drink it the first time unless you're just drinking something that's like fruity or whatever you it's harder too I remember like I had tried alcohol. I didn't like it as much when I first tried it But the weed was easy because I had already had this like idea I'm gonna like this thing when I do it And so for you it was for you. It's kind of started with alcohol. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah And I going back to what you you were talking about your experience in school, you know very similar and I think that's Maybe maybe I didn't do a good job explaining it like top of the heat bottom the heap wasn't even what I mean by that isn't even so much of uh Like I'm competing to be the best at something as much as I am I am constantly feeling like I've got to either You know set myself apart in one direction or the other and I'm not okay just being a part of a group You know, and I guess the way that That I would think about this as a Christian is that you know The church the body we all have different functions, right? And the the Tyler approach to this would have been like well, I want to be the arm and the leg and the head and you know And so I wanted to fit in everywhere with every one And so as a result I had no real identity You know, it's just I was good at blending in like if I was hanging with the the crappy people I would try to like Fake it until I make it And then I uh, but I also wanted acceptance from the stoners, you know right right right and then I also So it was just wherever I went man I would just try to kind of I would be a chameleon Into that environment and um, I guess that's kind of how I would measure myself But going back to you know, what you were asking me about for sure. It didn't take long You know what what that first that first drink kind of showed me was that My my family was on to something and that everything that I'd been taught about Alcohol being Bad, you know, you're gonna die immediately Well, that was a lie. So what else are they lying to me about, you know, and then Definitely that spiraled, you know, it was it was weed next And then it was just anything that I could get my hands on and and one thing I should say is it becomes hard in my story to distinguish between Like because my wife now as you mentioned earlier, it's Carly. We were high school sweethearts. Okay So and I the last thing I want to do is tell her testimony, but she was already With me putting up with my garbage at this age, you know, so well, yeah But thank God for grace, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, she was she and it with you though or what she was yeah Yeah, and like I said, I don't want to I don't want to give her story But we were we were definitely on the same Kind of playing field at that point in time. Yeah, but Yeah, she thank God for grace. Thank God she was patient enough to yeah, it makes it easier when your partner is in it with you And then it's really hard as a man to like grow out of that and be the guy you need to be for her dude Yeah, and like for me like I'm a Jodie right before I became an alcoholic literally I met her and within the first year of us dating I got two misdemeanors and so I started drinking And just didn't look back. So I first a couple of years. I'm just partying But I was like heavily drinking off the get go blacking out. It would just be an absolute buffoon and I'm with Jody And she's just having to put up with me and like out all of my worst moments man She's just seeing me as like just not a good person, you know And I hate I hate that but like God's healed us in so many ways. It's so awesome to kind of Get on the other end of all that and and kind of like really see where God's gonna take us now because This I mean man she was faithful, you know through a lot of it And I won't tell her a story there. I let her tell I mean she's been on here before and we've talked about it and stuff and It's just one of those. It's always good to remind myself like man She she dealt with with me. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do Yeah, last week. I think I text you our anniversary was last. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah and This time for whatever reason I think it is because of what God's doing in my life But it was just you know anniversaries are by nature times are reflect But even more than then I can remember reflecting I was just like All in my fields that day man. I was there was a couple of times that I'd just lost it and you said 14 years, right? 15 15 Congratulations. Yeah, thanks, but yeah for sure she because Yes, she was you know, we were we were partners in crime for a while But then she got her act together before I did yeah and and even You know what what I would say And it's it's it was one of those things it was shameful for me to to say for a while but She was faithful to the Lord when I wasn't ready to be and she was the reason that we were in church for as long as As we were before I kind of woke up, you know, so I thank God for faithful women who are patient enough to wait on Their spouses to figure it out I There's been so many testimonies man on here fit women don't get enough credit where it's due and never they're faithful And it's like with Jody like I had the upbringing I had the everything I needed I shouldn't have had The testimony I have I should have been able to be the straight and narrow For her for my family for everybody and I was just letting her down But like something she didn't have but what she had that I didn't have was a passion She had the heart already she had already made up in her mind What she wanted I remember that like on the first date She was like if you don't believe in God, I don't even want to talk to you. I was like whoa This is like, you know, just for me it was like cool like I felt confident, you know But it's still like for her to come out the gate swinging like boldly like you suit dude. She was superble I remember it was almost like one of those dates is like put up or shut up first date kind of like This is how it's gonna be this is how I want it if you don't want to be a part of it We don't even like we don't have to go any further. I think she'd been burnt she had her heart hurt and so For me, it was like wow like I needed that I need someone who's just gonna tell me like this is how I feel This is how I want it and yeah, like you said, thank God for faithful women and Yeah, yeah, and so we You know fast-forwarding a little bit. We went to college together. We I went to the university of Kentucky and you know things were I'm a I got sober thanks to God first of all, but through the vehicle of alcoholics anonymous and um what what they have kind of taught me to think about this is like the It's it's a progressive thing. It tends to just get worse if left unaddressed and so uh when did you start doing that? Yeah, uh Let's see It would have been 2013 so my sobriety date is September 21st 2013. Okay. That's when I got serious about it When I was 18, I got arrested for a DUI and You know, I think I had to go to some meetings, but is one of those things like yeah, I already I already know all the stuff You know, I've got it figured out. I don't need I don't need you guys right and and then of course I go and repeat and then it gets a little worse and You know, but at that point in time it it had escalated from from you know drinking a little bit and and smoke and weed to You know, I was from Eastern Kentucky in the early 2000s and it was just opiate city and so everyone It felt like every one I knew was on some form of oxycodone or something like that and it is somebody who's just wanting to feel anyway other than how I feel Sure, I'll try it. Yeah, and it It got a hold of me, you know, and it's uh Yeah, it was I think up until that point I would have said there was some measure of control and what I was doing right and then after you know, and I don't know where that that magic switch is where you you cross a line but after I did it was There was no control, you know, it was the thing that that completed me it was the thing that made me happy It was all I thought about it was just consuming yeah, and Yeah, that's a it's a pretty pretty bad place to be Yeah, I don't have experience with the pills. I'd like I was afraid of them because I was like I was thinking it was gonna I knew how addictive my tendencies were I had tried some stuff like harder than just marijuana before um And just never really gave it enough of a chance, you know what I mean to really like grab hold of me But it is it's a dangerous game and like you said it where you grew up and in that time frame That was literally just a pandemic and it was probably not just they're all over the world all over America Yeah, people were addicted to those pills. It's it's sad man And so you said 2013 was like your official sobriety date is that when you quit everything. Yeah, yeah Yep, and and so I you know, there were there were a few more episodes in there Some some rough times, but but you were still like Provide you were still doing the thing right? I mean you're going to college. Did you get supper before college or no So I was in college at UK for a year, okay, and I actually had a Scholarship to go to college and lost it within a year. Wow had to move back home And you know, it just continued to to spiral I would try to move to this place or that place. We tried to move to Louisville for a little while Didn't work, you know, I found What I was looking for wherever I went Because ultimately I was taking me with me, right? Yeah, and so it It just never dawned on me that maybe I was the problem and Yeah, I mean the reason that I'm even in peduka is because my wife and I were getting ready to get married And we had come up here So her mom lives here. Mm-hmm. We'd come up here to go wedding shopping like wedding dress shopping and get some stuff for the You know, I don't remember what all it was like, you know decor for the wedding and and that sort of thing and so we drove to peduka and Of course, I don't go anywhere without having plenty of of because at this point It's not it's not even fun anymore. Yeah, you know, this is like four years into an addiction five years into an addiction I'm not having fun. I'm just managing And I'm actually more of a danger if I don't have it Because it's it's like that is what I need to just stay out of withdrawals You know, so I'm It's it's it's insane the way that the enemy uses that to take a hold of people because that first time It's like what what could be better than this it's straight straight dopamine and serotonin all of these These things that God has given us to reward us when we do something that's worthwhile, but instead You know here I am Just getting that delivered on demand mm-hmm until it's not effective and and it wasn't effective anymore And now the thing that I thought was my solution I'm now a slave to mm-hmm and Yeah, so we come here to go wedding shopping I've got you know plenty of drugs on me plenty of pills on me We do our thing we stay with her mom for a couple of days and then we're about to head back and her mom was married to a guy at the time Who wasn't my biggest fan as you can imagine Mm-hmm, and honestly, I don't you know, I don't I can't blame them and He soon as we left he knew what was up. He called the Kentucky state police. He said hey Here they are. Here's what they're doing. Here's what they're driving. Here's where they'll be in approximately 30 minutes and so there was a Kentucky state police officer waiting for me On i24 as soon as you get onto the western Kentucky Parkway Right in that area and yeah man. He had my number. He knew he knew it was up and he stopped me and And I was you know kind of a as an aside. I hated that guy for a long time for calling the cops on me Yeah for a really long time and Yeah, since I have learned that that guy helped save my life but uh It that didn't get downloaded to me overnight, you know, I'm sitting in the jail cell and I I'm kind of keen to what happened. I'm just like All right, um, I'm gonna get him somehow and uh You know, fortunately That all did happen and I ended up in Paduca and I ended up in it was actually in Caldwell County and They allowed me to to Get everything moved to McCracken County and go through the drug court program here And that's where things really Kind of started to to turn Because at this point in time now, you know, I'm getting ready to be married I am getting ready to be a father and It's not even that I was ready to grow up. You know, I think something something happens to women before it happens to men when when they are about to be parents, you know, which Makes sense they're the ones that are They have to physically bring this child in the world, right? But for me, I'm I'm still trying to live Life normally. Well, Carly's already she's cleaned up. She's done with it. She's had enough of my stuff and Yeah, shortly before September 21st 2013, I am no longer welcome in In my house. I am Going wherever I can for a while. I stayed in the I don't even know what the name of the hotel is. It's not a hotel. It's a motel So I guess I kind of skipped a little bit. I got through drug court. Okay That was a successful student there. I could fake it long enough But then you know What drew me back was alcohol because I I still Even though I had to go through this 18 month period of sobriety and He was able to do it. I still couldn't fathom It could be it could be you know, whatever it is today October 30th and I would think about that that beer On the beach in July. Yeah And I'd go ahead and say Didn't know way. I'm going to be able to not drink Just screw it. Let's go ahead and go get one, you know, and that's what brought me back to To drink in and using all over again And so even after I'd had all these consequences. I'd been a jail multiple times. I am now on a different city You know, I do at this point. I am married at this point. I do have a daughter I have finished drug court. I'm like screw it and Yeah, it spiraled like I said to the point where she she didn't want me around She cleaned up her act she had a sponsor and celebrate recovery. Okay, and she Her sponsor wisely said, you know, if you keep putting up with it, he's going to keep doing it and so I was couch surfing or motel surfing or doing whatever I could do working a job at Is either O Charlie's or outback steakhouse trying to make tip money and survive Were you were you worried about your relationship with your wife or were you just like we'll figure it out or what was your mindset like? Yeah, I was worried but And again, I want to I want to stress I used to have the secular view of addiction and alcoholism And I would think that it's it's just a chemical dependency Well, when I was in it, I thought it was a way of life. I'm born this way. I'm going to die this way So what you know, this is just who I am kind of Just a way to cope, right? But then even after getting sober had a very secular scientific view of it where it was like well, this is a you know chemical dependency blah blah blah Whatever, you know, you could fill in the the blanks with all the scientific research on that Yeah, but but what I realized now is it's much darker than that. It's much more nefarious than that And I would say it's even spiritual and Yeah, I cared certainly about my daughter and my wife, you know and I just I guess I didn't know how to live without it That's that's the point even after 18 months of sobriety it just like I said earlier It got worse and not better. So it didn't it didn't take much time at all after ripping the bandaid off and going back out there Right to just for things to just spiral and get even worse somehow than they were before And I was even more desperate because now I've got less To hide and less to live for and you know because well my own wife's even kicking me out So even though I was I was concerned I was resentful at the same time. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, isn't that isn't it crazy that you end up resentful towards the people who love you most Yeah, and it's just it's just like the way to just keep it keep the heat off me You know earlier you said, you know, you had to take you everywhere you went And there was this accountability struggle and I think everyone who's struggled with addiction knows what that's like Is that feeling of like doing anything to shift the blame or anything to just say like Whatever justification it is yeah, not as bad as that guy. I'm not as but yeah And so just some tough love for anyone out there who's struggling with addiction is if you are looking at everyone else But yourself and the mirror and and taking some a second to really contemplate Where the issue is that you'll you'll miss it and it's you it's right in front of you And but so many people to do it and that's the thing you see with people going through recovery is that that Keep keeps on coming back to the heart of the issue And if they can get past that they can like surrender that you know humble themselves and admit it to themselves Then you can see change but if you can't if you continue on this path of like It's something else Or it's the substance or it's this or it's that it's sound he'll be resentful you'll hate you'll be not hate I mean you can end up being hateful to the people who love you most yeah Yeah, and that's that's where the conflict came in because Yeah, I it's definitely cared and I wanted to be reunited with my family, but also I can't believe they did that to me, you know, and it's it's just this inability to see reality and and again, I think that's That's spiritual in nature and that's that's a feature not a bug of addiction. Yeah, you know and so I got to the point on the night of September 20th where I I had uh, so I was an IV drug user. Okay. This point in time and I had You know, I just done too much and and I don't really know exactly what happened. I know I was at somebody else's house on their couch and I know that I started using the same way that I would use regularly and and then I woke up about four or five hours later and there was Blood everywhere and I realized that I was very lucky to have gotten up wow and Probably you were whenever you you were still in the same place. No, I had fallen down like Oh on the ground wow. Yeah, and Hopefully that's not too graphic. I know it's okay. Okay. Whatever you feel comfortable sharing is yeah, yeah um and so I don't know is the first time in my life where it wasn't It wasn't the department of corrections that told me Hey, you're going to do something about this. It was like man. I Don't have anywhere else to go. I am about to die and I need help and so you know my dad who I told you earlier had had gone to dental school He was he was always the guy that would when I'd call him and I'd ask for help which help In the middle of addiction means give me money right he wasn't having it. Mm-hmm and But what he had done in in the meantime while he was practicing dentistry is he had there was a place very much like center point Mm-hmm, but it's in more head It's the the more head Kentucky version of it. It was called the more head inspiration center And he had formulated some relationships with people there and he he actually had done some dental work for And I'm gonna brag on because he's my dad. Yeah, he would do free dental work for for those guys who were in treatment there It's awesome. It yeah, it really is just shows his heart but Because of that he had formed relationships with the kind of the coordinators and the people that managed that place And so when I I called him and said I need some help he said all right. I'll make a phone call and On September 21, 2013. I was on my way to Ashland, Kentucky to a pathways facility there and then I ended up in In Owensboro at a place just like center point in Owensboro And so that's where yeah my my sober life started And so when did when did you feel like you got either rededicated your life or or when did when did Jesus come back and that's that's the biggest Miracle in my testimony. You know, I like I like talking about what happened with drugs and alcohol, but yeah just because I it's Ultimately, it is God every step of the way everything that happened whether it was the guy who Called the cops that allowed me to even be in peduka Or it's the fact that we went to a couple of celebrate recovery meetings that just happened to be at face center And we were like well, let's try this church on Sunday too, you know, it's God had his hand and in all of it But what's what's amazing is that I got sober and was still I would say just very much like a lukewarm Christian, you know It was important for Carly to go to church on Sunday, so we went right but man from From Eaton like Junior bacon cheeseburgers for a dollar, you know and just putting Two bucks of gas in at a time two like Okay, well now I'm in college now. I've had a job and they don't want to fire me Now my wife will let me into the house, you know, now I'm like learning to be a father all of these things Hey, we got a car too, right now you're cooking with gas, you know, and so I start getting all these comforts and I'm like Man, this is this is good. I've been blessed That's good enough, you know, and so I wasn't in pursuit. Oh, man of of anything more than that. I was in pursuit of Staying sober. I was in pursuit of you know Life is much better than it used to be. Mm-hmm. So That's that's a blessing and It's funny. You talked about discovery. I was like kicking and screaming. I did not want to go through discovery Because if you remember there was a discovery Long-long time ago where it was just like one class get in get out boom. You're done. Mm-hmm. I don't remember that Yeah, so that was I'm sure I was there I just yeah, you were definitely there it but I'm wanting to say something like 2016 2017 something like that, you know, but it was just a one One class. I might have not been going regularly at that time. I can't remember Sorry, go ahead. No, no, you're good and and so I was willing to do that But we already did that. So you guys were going that how long have you guys been going to face dinner? Since so my son who is 10 my wife was pregnant with Hudson. We started going so Something like 11 years. Wow, and yeah, there's a lot of funny stories about that. I still get people this Hey, so you were going there for like oh, man. That's happened to me. Yeah. Oh, it's hilarious This one lady did it to me. It was like probably two years ago or something and she's been going to our Church forever like since I was like a kid so like I She asked us if it was our first Sunday, and I was like Kelly and your Vaughn. They're my parents That's what I always like lead with because almost like 80% of the church will know if I say Kelly or Vaughn If they've been going there for at least a little while they usually know my mom and dad But you know, so you were going there for like six plus almost six years before you guys even went through discovery. Yeah Wow, okay, and So we you know, Carly finally convinced me that we needed to go and we were in there with you guys and it was awesome Yeah, it it really was and it it started to Break down some walls that I'd built up because And again, it is not my I think AA helped me a lot for a season. Yeah, but There were some some walls that were built up there. I remember Pastor John actually what I thought was like Bad mal thing AA at certain times and the sermons you'd say things like well you you are not an alcoholic you are a child of God right at the time. I'm like Nope, you're you know, you're wrong. Yeah, and so I had this type of mentality. Well then I go to discovery And I kind of get a better picture of Who John and Sarah are yeah, and I realized that I do have some Some walls built up and I'm still not completely willing to to like let other people in or even fully submit to God But it's just like a layer, you know, it's a seed they get so interesting that stuck out to you so much Because I've heard him say stuff like that before and as someone who went through AA it was so personal to you that you You were almost like a fence to that. Well, the thing the thing that I'll say in the in defensive AA is that that that sort of mindset is Even though it's not something that I agree with At the moment in my walk with Christ at the time it's like What what had my Tyler's best thinking had proven like I keep thinking that I get healed from this thing. You know, I go a while sober Surely I can drink now right and then I try it and then it gets worse Yeah, and so it's like instead of You know, I think we're we're we're we use Christians would say like well, we don't want to Him up our identity and something like being an alcoholic what Somebody would say on the AA side is it's not so much about Making that your only identity. It's about making sure you don't forget because it's like holding your feet to the fire Like you're like you're like holding yourself accountable to To this idea to where you don't forget it. Yeah, I think something that happens with every person who who gets sober is They they have to continue to keep themselves accountable For a long time until they get it completely washed out of them You know like I've been sober for over a year and I feel like I'm pretty good But there might still be an occasional urge and I have to do some self-reflection quickly To make like say on my boundaries don't place am I still good? What do I like what steps do I need to take to make sure I don't? Yeah, relapse And so I get that idea of like as someone going through AA saying like I'm an alcoholic It keeps you in that present mindset of like no, I'm I still am like I need this right like I need to be sober but I I do also As I've been around John for a long time and I've been around faith Preachers for a long time words matter and so like when you when you do Say that over yourself whether you realize it or not subconsciously you are claiming that identity. Yeah, and so There does come a point where I feel like you do need to break free from that identity and say I'm no longer An alcoholic like I'm an alcoholic when I was Daniel. No, I am a son of God. I am a child. I'm you know Jesus Christ is living inside of me and claiming a new identity So in John's way of thinking of it he's thinking of it from like a spiritual grace filled mindset But I see what you're saying and for people who are maybe Less mature in their walk they might need they might need that especially if they've walked through it And like you said for someone for someone who's been through it you you couldn't you didn't have the pieces until you had that right like you needed Those the structure you needed that structure. Yeah, so I completely see where you're coming from Yeah, and and I I've come full circle on that and I'm Exactly where what you were saying, you know, it does words do matter They are more than just words. Well, that's why something like this is so good because people who have gone through AA Who might also go to church or whatever they might be offended by something like that But it's so good that we can have like a whole conversation about it because when John's preaching he he's going You know what I mean? He'll say that and then he'll go right on to the next point about it Yeah, and it's just it's they're in gone. Yeah, and so for us to be able to at least expand on it a little bit more Hopefully can give people a little bit more context a little bit more to think through with it Yeah, like it's okay. It's okay if you need that and you're going through AA and you're in AA You know if that's keeping you sober don't just stop what you're doing right but also You know something for you to think about is your identity and like what is your identity? You know, yeah, and I would even say that So AA helped lead me back to Christ It took me from being in a position of I'm an atheist at best agnostic to Yeah, okay. Maybe there is something. I don't know what that is But that's all AA is going to require of me. So I'll make that concession. Yeah, and then over time It was like, okay, well The the something that I think that maybe there is looks a whole lot like the thing I was learning about That was when I was a kid, you know, and so it was just a slow drip and a gradual process of me allowing myself to To you know because it sucks when you just got to be like hey I was wrong. I've got ag on my face. I was kind of living this way Making all these arguments and it was really more because I'm an immature child who didn't want to be You know, it wasn't able to go all the way back to the beginning like wasn't able to hold the legalistic religious Ideal that I thought I needed to hold and so having to kind of come back and and Face that was it was a process, but And I think AA has some good it's it's rooted in good principles. Mm-hmm But it it just There's some things where yeah as I've grown spiritually it's I'm not as comfortable with some of the some of those principles, but I think it can like like I explained for me It can be a great kind of gateway to It's it can be the Bible for dummies, you know A lot of people who go through it do end up coming to to Christ. Yeah, because you're you're acknowledging that there's a higher power Yeah, like that step for some people is a huge step and I think everyone's got their own Their own walk to walk and you had to kind of figure that out You know, you were you were tested with this word like man like Okay, but AA is good and and there is truth to that because it was good for you And so you were tested with this idea of like okay But I'm not like I'm not an alcoholic like I don't have to claim that and so then that's something that you have to kind of like work through You know what I mean, and a lot of times it's anger That's the first response for for humans whenever we're tested whenever we're like tested to grow We almost kind of get angry because we're like it hits you somewhere in your heart. You're like man, that's You know for me. I still feel like I'm tested with this whenever I got whenever I relapse and I I saw counsel I tried like meetings. I tried like a faith-based Like go to church. We did like a whole like little church service And then you had like almost like an a style me where you sit around the room and you just tell People what's wrong with you You know like just this is why I suck and this one guy I mean, he was like tweaked out like he had almost gone like it's gonna take like a miracle from the Lord to bring his brain back He was just like so had done so much math and I felt it's just breaks your heart you center on A group of guys and some of them are so broken And it didn't stick with me. It didn't so you got to figure out what sticks with you And so I saw help from pastor Jeff and I met with him for like a whole year and you know It was really a blessing to me. I think it was me Just being ready to receive some help. Yeah, but he he said something that I still battle with to this day that I'll share with you It's like he said that the reason you do that is because of a past trauma Like everything goes back to like a traumatic like there's some kind of trauma that you're not dealing with And I think that's just the like psychiatrist in him like that's like a sticking point that everyone says like But I was like I don't I don't see it. I don't see it like I don't I don't get that like I don't know I think I just did it just because I did it like I think I was just the that crappy of a person Like I don't know if I have like this traumatic experience in my life Worthy of justifying this action, you know, I think I just was it like a person of habit who got addicted and then just couldn't get out Yeah, and so even though maybe I didn't receive everything he said I received a whole lot from what he said For sure. Yeah, and you know whether or not that's true or maybe I'll find out one day there was this trauma that's still deep inside me But I'm sober now, you know what I mean that's kind of where The rubber is the road and that's what matters right is like I'm sober now. Yeah, and and through that process More is continuously revealed right, you know right but it does mean staying sober but Congratulations on the year by the way. Thank you man. It's like March. So we're probably almost on two years. Yeah Getting somewhere in there. Yeah, I don't and see I'm terrible with dates So I don't know the exact and I know people are really good with that and I'm I don't even I couldn't even tell it the eleventh I think yeah, I I've I've had a couple deaths in my life and for friends whenever they were young died too soon and like I can't tell you the day they died But people like remember that stuff and for me it's like almost like I just like forget it Yeah, so maybe that's my problem is I just like I'd rather just forget it rather than like hold on to it every time this anniversary of morning and suffering comes around I just Don't want that if that makes sense. Yeah, and I don't know either about About past trauma. I certainly have had things that I've had to lay down at the altar and a lot of it had to do with just my relationship with Anyone, you know, it was just this Something like what we're doing right now just being vulnerable with somebody else That was not in the On the bingo card for me, you know because it was just too much. I I I am My default is to just be funny enough to keep people off my back in a way and then I don't really ever have to worry about getting hurt and So it as far as trauma goes. I guess that's you know, that's something that I've certainly like I said had to lay down at the altar But I had like I described to you I had a really good upbringing very fortunate. I don't have that to blame But what I do know is that we are Fallen, you know, we are rooted in sin from what happened back in the garden and so I think just Left to my own devices. I just think that I'm smart enough to find a way To be happy to find happy and it's that hedonistic chase for what's gonna make me happy Right now and it seemed like drugs and alcohol did that for a while, you know until it Didn't and it had the the exact opposite effect. So yeah, but yeah, trauma trauma's tough because I don't I don't know that I would say there was this one of singular event that caused For me, but yeah, I think it's good for people to hear different ideas of what it looks like because everyone lives such a different life I'm sorry I went down and rambled on it, but you so you were like You got to a point where you you had figured it all out and then you're comfortable again So then it's like you almost don't even Have to seek more of a relationship with God because you're just kind of good with where you're at And so your wife's like we should do discovery and so for people who don't know discovery is like the way you get Introduced to maybe becoming a member at our church. So you learn more about like the vision of the church And it's probably something I did whenever I was like 14 or something with my parents whenever they first I think I was there when they first ever came up with this idea So I was like I kind of get it. I've done it before But for same for me, I got we needed to go through it. We needed it We needed because like we had we had gotten out of church for a few years and then after COVID and everything we were pregnant with Caleb It's time to get back into church. We're about to have a kid. It's time to get you know back into church And so after about a year or so of going back I believe is whenever we went through discovery. So you go to discovery You you finally say all right or we'll go we'll do this thing and did what what happened next? Well, it was it was about Relationships like I said, I got to see Pastor John's heart I got to see pastor Sarah's heart in a way that's just different than a Sunday morning service. Yeah, and I just I just slowly started buying in and starting shipping away at the the kind of mask that I had worn for so long and You know, of course when you get finished with discovery It's like well, you're part of the church and as I said earlier the church is the body of Christ and we all have different roles so Carly being the you know, I just wanted to leave discovery and keep going to church on Sunday and say hi to everybody That we were in discovery with you got something out of it. You're good. Yeah, but Carly's like well We got to we got to do something now. We got to you know, we got to sign up for something I'm underqualified for this you know and we ended up in in faith kids and and that has been man such a blessing like I didn't know what I was doing back there at first and now I just I've gotten Relationships with with these kids were like I I Genuinely love That time that I get to spend with them and then I've seen some kids go from being You know and like the second grade to now they're going to youth on Wednesdays and stuff like that, but I think what it did, you know, like I said, it was about relationships and and so pastor john knew us enough now to where He felt I mean pastor john's gonna do pastor john things like it doesn't matter He doesn't have to feel comfortable, but what what I will definitely tell you is that there was one September where we were in church kind of business as usual and Pastor john came up said stand up like Me you know, it's it's Carly and I and he had a word for us and I'd been going to the church for probably seven or eight years at that point in time and I don't know that I would have said that I ever really bought into the words, you know, I still was at best like an infant in the the powers of the Holy Spirit in my kind of understanding or even faith in them. Yeah, but he he spoke over us and I don't know man something like I believed it, you know, I believe that it was prophetic and what that caused me to do afterwards was the same thing he'd been telling me to do for like seven or eight years, which is why don't you crack up in your bible a little bit and so I had I'd actually heard I think it was Jamie Futurel talk about how he was doing a life group in Romans. I was not comfortable going to a life group, so I didn't go, but I thought maybe Romans is a good place to start, so I got yeah got on the the Bible app found a reading plan for Romans read through it and then for whatever reason the next thing that I read was Isaiah. Oh wow. And and it was just like stuff started changing, you know, I love John chapter one. And and it's because you know, in the beginning. Right. I'm in John right now. It's it's so art art like the way it's it's beautifully written. Yeah, you know, like I am reading through the Bible myself and I'm actually in Isaiah. That's so funny that you said that. And I'm also in John. And uh yeah, it like I after reading through Mark a couple times, I think Mark might be one of my favorite gospels just because of the like impact it has, but there's no denying when you read John, it just makes you like it hits your heart. Yeah, it's so artit like artistically written. I don't know if that's the right word, but the Holy Spirit through, you know, through that it's like, wow, it's so beautifully written. Yeah. And and the word was there in the beginning. And and so that that same word that I had made all kinds of excuses, you know, to avoid reading or to I get it, I get the big picture, you know, that same word, the manifestation of that word is Jesus Christ. And it's it's all here. And and so it started it started for me with the word. And it's just been what that's done is it's just caused me to to take new steps and continue allowing God to to chip down the the walls that I built up and and now, you know, I don't know this is so interesting you started with Romans. Yeah. Because Romans do Romans is humbling. I tell people on here all the time, just go home and read Romans one and then read Romans to and you will be immediately humbled. It's like there's some really good parts of it that are just really encouraging, but some of it's like really hard to read at least for me. Maybe I'm just on an island, but some of it is really hard to read. It's like it really tests you. Yeah, it humbles you. It's like a humbling book because like I was telling you earlier with five six seven and eights talking about sin. There's a lot there to unpack with sin. Yeah. And then it's got the whole like pa, uh, you know, Pharaoh and all this other stuff in it. It is an interesting book for you to start out with for sure. I love it. I love Romans. I think it, it constantly is like a renewing, renewing your mind. Yeah. It's in there. So yeah. And and I'm going to be honest. I don't know if I had any idea what I was actually, I mean, starting with Paul is like not the best idea because that dude he, I mean, he's awesome. He doesn't have any punches, man. He just says it and and he says it in like sentences that go on for paragraphs somehow. So trying to keep up like how did we get this is one sentence? How did I end up here from, but you know, it did, it's like it didn't even matter. It was, it was the willingness and the fact that there had been enough of a, a transformation in me already to just open it up, spend some time with God that he just started doing his thing. It wasn't, it wasn't necessarily that I was immediately digesting and eating meat, you know, I was still very much on milk, but it was the start of me going from a comfortable lukewarm Sunday Christian. I'll think about God when I'm there between the hours of 10 and 1130 depending on who's preaching. And then the rest of the week, I'm good. I got this. I'll do it myself, you know. And in that, that thing, man, has been, you know, as much as I'm grateful for everything that I had to go through to get sober. And I absolutely am. And it's, it's a, it's one continuous story. It's not like you can separate one from the other, but this part of my testimony, like getting back to God, the Father, God, the Son, and God, the Holy Spirit, that's, that's the thing that I'm like, this is, this is the part that that I want to talk about because you don't, you don't have to be the lukewarm church. We don't have to be the lukewarm church, you know, we, right. There is so much more. And, and I was saying this just the other day in, in our life group that, that Carly and I are in, you know, I can't think of one thing that the Holy Spirit has convicted me about, that I've laid down at the altar, that I've, I've really, really thought like, man, my life was better when I had that, right. You know, I mean, it feels like there's something that I'm going to be giving up. That's what the flesh tells me. Yeah. But that's a lot. Yeah. It's the biggest lie. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it, cause just like it says in Romans, you're a slave to it. Yeah. You're a slave to sin. You have to choose to be a slave to righteousness. It's like he was, and he's tells them I'm putting this in human terms, just so you can even kind of understand what I'm saying to you because it was such a hard concept to even explain to the people he was writing to that this whole idea of what you choose to do is your master. Just like Jesus says, you can, you can't serve two masters. And so there's this like built up idea that Satan runs to everyone's mind that if you lay this down, you're going to be, you're going to be less funny, you're going to be less confident, you're not going to be a, you're going to be socially awkward whenever you stop drinking. When you lay down this thing, you're not going to know what to do with your life. But those convictions of the Holy Spirit and laying that stuff down, nothing, like you said, nothing we lay down was ever like, man, I wish I still had that in my life. Like we're so much happier for it. Yeah. I was talking to a buddy the other day at work. And it's just funny. You said what you said about, you know, who am I going to be when I lay all this stuff down? And he just had recently had a terrible tragedy happen. His brother died. And it was way too soon. And people knew that it was coming. And you know, he's really, I think right now he would, he would consider himself an agnostic. So I was trying to, to witness to him and say, you know, here's, here's what I, I see for you. And here's what I hope for you. And he kind of started off pretty mad at me about it because his mom is a woman of faith. And you know, they'd gotten into it shortly thereafter just because of the heightened emotions around. I mean, you can imagine like it's, it's a tragic thing. And so some stuff's going to get said that just hasn't been said. And he said, you know, you've been, you've been praying for our brother for years. Where did that prayer get you? You know, that's something he said to his mom. And you know, I, I was able to, to talk to him for long enough that it went from, you know, me kind of witnessing to like, he was curious. And he, one of the things, you know, coming full circle, the reason I brought it up is that he said, well, I just don't, I don't see how if, if I submit, or if I give myself over to God, then who am I going to be? You know, I'll lose my, my identity. I'll lose the thing that, you know, my, my daughter loves about me or I'll lose the thing that, and it's just we, not we, the, the enemy is so good at carefully crafting lies that seem so logical. And, uh, yeah, man, we just buy a hookline and sinker and, yeah, prideful to the bitter end. And it doesn't seem like pride. Like if, if I told that guy, well, you're just being prideful, he'd be like, excuse you. What are you talking about? But that's where it all stems from is like this idea of like, I'm too great to die. Like I can't, it's like this whole idea of like having to buy that I need a savior that I have to like, let go of this thing that I am and try to be something different. But God's given you a purpose as you, you just have to find it in him. Yeah. And so it's like, it is, it's a hard idea, especially with someone who's, who's suffering, who's dealing with a trauma like that. And then those questions that almost no one has a good answer for like, where did all your prayers go? Well, they don't understand heaven. They don't have a concept of the spiritual world that, you know, really it's a blessing. And it's hard for people to hear that whenever your one, your loved ones die is like, they're with, they're in a better place. Like they're praising in heaven. Like they don't miss it. They don't miss it here. You know, we miss them and I get it. But like they're happier. If it's, if his brother was a believer, that's also a tough, tough thing to swallow too is if the loved one wasn't a believer, then you have that whole idea of like, so they're just in hell. Right. And then that makes them angry and not want to, why would I want to accept heaven if I know someone I love is in hell? Yeah. So that's a tough one, man. Yeah. At least you were able to be there. And like, you know, just him getting curious shows something's turning inside of him. Right. And I think, you know, I think that's, that's it for me, man. Like I just want to be able to, and it's, it's, I give myself a hard time about it all the time just because I am, it is easy for me to just default to humor. But it's like these things that Pastor John has been saying for, for ever. You know, it's, they're, some of them are just now syncing in. And so our, our mission field, my mission field is wherever I am. And if that happens to be at work and then a conversation happens to come up, I mean, I, I don't, I don't have any shame about what I believe or talking to somebody about what I believe and, and try and my best to encourage them. However, I can, you don't have to change who you are anymore to fit some kind of like face, you know what I mean? And I'm telling you, man, like I don't even know how to stress how much of a miracle that is because for the longest time, I was just, I mean, I was the same chameleon that I talked about, right? So even though I'd gotten sober, I, I still wanted to blend in. And when I'm at church, then I'll, I'll sing along and grab the back of the chair and look around, you know, and see what I'm supposed to do. But when I'm at work, you know, I'm, I'm gossiping. I'm doing, you know, I'm doing all the things that like I don't feel good about, but it's, it's what everybody else is doing. So I don't want to stand out. So let's just do the status quo and, and the, the, the miracle is that I don't want to do that. And it's not from a place of like, holier than now. It's, it's like, I know that that ruins an opportunity later. That same guy who was talking to me last Friday, probably wouldn't have even bothered saying anything to me had he seen that like, okay, this is what, this is what Tyler's version of Christianity is. Like, he goes to church on Sunday, but then he's, you know, using whatever language he wants to Monday through Friday. And, yeah. So it's, it is, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't look at sanctification the same way that I did when I was 13 or 14, like, it's something that I white knuckle, but I'll, I do listen and respond when the spirit prompts something. And as a result of that, it, it has given me the ability to, to speak to people in situations like that. And they don't have to question my authenticity. Right. So like I said, that, that is a, a huge miracle because I, I was not, I was, Daniel can fulfill the great commission. I'm good. I will support however I can from the sidelines, you know, but that ain't me. That ain't for me. Yeah. That was the way that I thought for years. It's so easy to get there, man. When you go to church on a weekly basis, it's so easy to get to the point of where you're just like, I'm cool with being on the sidelines. And like, this missionary work, it sounds cool, but I'm not going to give anything to it. We're, we're, you know, maybe we're even not even tithing, maybe we're just going to give whenever we feel like the guilty to give. And you have all of this, like stuff you got to walk through, but just to hear your heart and, and wanting to be obedient to what the Holy Spirit prompts you to do. And like, your desires change, man. Everything about your, like, your decisions, your, your DNA, it's slowly but surely changes within you. Yeah. Yeah. That I felt that when you said it. And I mean, it, it, uh, it definitely has. And it, like I said, it's been, uh, it's been a slow thing, but it's, it started with relationships. It started with the word and it's kind of just grown from there, you know, I mean out of all of the things that I thought I was going to have to give up, it's, I've got such a full life now. And I think that's one of the things that I, I want to, you know, or try to, to remind people of is that the, the methodist tradition in my wife is a Baptist. So that a lot of, that's what she grew up as face center, obviously non-denominational. They just preach Jesus. So, um, but like, the thing is, man, there's so many misconceptions that I had about this is what I've got to do to get my stay out of hell card punched. And that's it. But I don't think that that's what Jesus came to give us. I don't think he, he just came to give us, you know, I think, I guess what I'm saying is I think eternal life starts before we die. Right. And, and that's, that's kind of another miracle that's, or revelation that started to unfold because, yeah, I mean, all I've ever cared about is just what, what can I get in this situation? It's just been selfish and self-centered. And, it's, when I let God in all the way, it's, it's not like that today. I think, you know, just hearing you're a little bit of your story and acknowledging like God in all of it, it's so cool to like take a moment and think of even more recent, even just now because we've talked about a lot of years, but think about just the time you benefit center and the time you've been serving with the youth. Isn't it so cool? God puts you guys with the youth where you're serving with the youth, uh, the kids and I even just like youth like teenagers like the kiddo kids. Yeah, I think there's something, I don't know if this is, I just feel like the Lord, this is for, for you that like the Lord puts you there for a reason. And I think there's something that if you can explain Jesus to a child, you can explain them to anybody because you don't have to give them some kind of theology. You just keep it simple. It's just from the heart. And God's puts you around people who are very powerful, people who I really trust in respect, a whole lot who, uh, you know, the people who run it with Amy and Travis and then with Garrett and Pastor Garrett and Leslie back there. I know you guys are around a lot of you and maybe you guys don't serve at the same time, but you guys are all doing it together. Yeah. And I know you guys are like minded in that. It's, it's, it's because God's like forming you still and he's calling you more. And so like when you have those conversations with people now you, you have this experience where you're, you're surrendering to little kids who can be as frustrating as it gets whenever it comes to patients, right with attention spans and everything. But the heart of the message is just keep in a simple, right? Yeah. Just keep in it to where you can keep them engaged. And if you can take that into a conversation with someone, you know, at work, that's what's going to keep them curious and keep them interested. Not some kind of like, well, let me just explain the theology of the Bible real quick to you or why I believe this. I mean, and you're still in the steps of like learning how important this Holy Spirit thing is too. And it's such an awesome place to be when your eyes are starting to get open to that. I talk about it on the podcast agnasium and maybe some people don't feel comfortable with it. But I just started getting mentored by a guy, his name is Bob, but I call him Pastor Bob for outer respect for the podcast. But anyways, he, he told me for him, like Holy Spirit is like right up there with oxygen. You don't have to have it to be saved, but for him, it's like right there with oxygen. Like, that's how important it is in his life. And it's something my dad instilled in me for decades is this Holy Spirit tongues and all of it. It's so important in his life. And I think the more I'm around it, the more true it is. The more true it is that this world is all a spiritual thing, manifesting itself in a physical reality. Yeah. And all these people are trying to come up with this understanding and idea like what this thing is. There's this thing that happens and I feel it and I know it's more than just me, but it's like, it's a simulation or it's just out there in the ether and I just get these ideas from something else. No, it's God. It's a whole, it's a, it's a spiritual world manifesting itself, whether a demonic or angelic. And so I just, that's how I believe that's how I feel like the Lord's been revealing to me is like, there's just more of the spiritual revelation that will never scratch the surface of. Yeah. No, 100%. You know, and I don't know how much you listen to, to Charlie Kirk. But I, you know, it's not even to necessarily dive into that, but what I, what I want to say about it is that I've been working now in the same place, same, same facility for more than a decade around the same group of guys for close to that. And there we've seen tragedies come and go. I mean, in the age of the internet, you get news as fast as you want it. Yeah. But when that happened and some of these guys, I, I don't even know, you know, like there are specific ones, like the one I mentioned, I know he would say that he was an agnostic and some of them, some of them would espouse that they were Christians and, and, and, you know, I mean, that's not for me to know. But what I'm trying to get at is when that happened, there was just, you know, I meant work, we're all at work together. And there was something, there was something spiritual about that that just hit everyone the same way. And the reason why it's significant to me is because I knew immediately, yeah, that's, that is, if this whole thing was spiritual, the assassination was spiritual. And so naturally, we feel the spiritual aftershock of that as it goes across the internet. And I don't think, you know, to your point, I don't think that we're all necessarily equipped to be able to point at that and say, yeah, that's, that is either the holy spirit or some spirit that is more real than this table is. Right. But we still, we still know it at some level. It's just the, the wisdom and maturity and the, the slow revelation as, as I've gotten to know Christ more, that I do become more sensitive to, to how real that really is. And it, I mean, I love what you're saying, Pastor Bob said, you know, it's like oxygen. I want to be there. Right. That's where I'm trying to grow into is this idea and still more in my life to where it is like oxygen. Yeah. Because I've, I've been honest on here, like I'm struggling with it. I'm like not speaking in tongues and I want to grow in these giftings. But, you know, I'm just trusting the Lord. But, yeah, I wanted to be right there with oxygen. I think what you're saying with the Charlie stuff is so, I mean, it's 40 something. It's been a little while now and it's like people have already forgotten, but it's so sad. So sad people celebrated it. There was a demonic presence around people celebrating it. I think for me, whenever I was way more in my worldly state, I would see people die on social media and you would see traumatic things like that every once in a while. If you just, it got on your algorithm, you would just see people getting hit by a bus or whatever, right? And like with movies nowadays, you can see all types of gore, but whenever that popped up on my phone, I did not realize I was about to watch it and I watched it like literally right after it happened. Like hours after it happened, because I saw you guys shot and I saw you as a hospital and I saw a video and thought maybe he lived. So, for some reason, I thought maybe I didn't know what the angle was like. I didn't realize I was going to get straight on shot of what happened. And I literally watched it and it was the most traumatic death I've witnessed and I watched it on my phone. That's disgusting. Just the way it happened, I looked at my wife and I almost like I almost felt like I was going to throw up and she could see how traumatic, like I was traumatized in that moment. I was like, oh my god. Yeah. And she was like, what? And I was like, he's gone. Like there's no chance. Yeah. He's gone. And I was like, I watched it and I shouldn't have watched it, but he's gone. And it was tough, man. And even it was so interesting. We went to that John Christ comedy show and that they were friends. Yeah. Is that not a coincidence? Is that weird? Do you know what I mean? I don't know. Like there's too many things that happen in our life and people just consider coincidence, but I don't see it that way. Yeah. No. Me neither. And I don't know if I finished what, you know, the significance of kind of the way that that spiritual aftershock was was shown at work, but we sat in silence for an hour. And you know, this is this is an area in the plant that I work in where they're constantly people coming in and out. There's always conversation happening. We've got to figure out we're planning for what what's happening next or, but there was just nobody wanted to talk for for an hour. And it was just, you know, I think to your point about the phone, I heard Least Robles say in is the author of the case for Christ. And he said, you know, the enemy is not omnipresent. So, but what he is, he's very wise in cunning in a worldly way. And so he's got to figure out a way to inflict maximum damage with Least effort. And I mean, you know, these things, these phones that we have the the lie that they're making us more connected than ever. And really, we're just I'm seeing the deterioration of connection. And I was a part of it. You know, it's it's the accessibility to things like that where the enemy can show you Charlie's death or show you, you know, fill in fill in the blank. But it's certainly a cheat code for him to just be able to mass distribute. Yeah. You're touching on something important there for sure. Yeah. So I, and I think that's one of the things that I try to use almost in a apologetic sort of way, because what the enemy doesn't realize is that when he makes himself so obviously present, he is confirming that evil exists because there are just some things that you can't explain with with money or financial incentives. There's just there are some things that are just objectively evil. Right. And so if you have that, well, then, you know, that also means that we have objective good. And, and so how do you reconcile that? You know, and yeah, I think, I think there is a, there is a like, there's a spiritual fingerprint that is tangible enough that if people are just willing to, to kind of halfway open their eyes, they can at least acknowledge that and then hopefully the Holy Spirit can take over from there. Yeah. You know, he might, you know, he's not omnipresent in the sense he can't be everywhere at once. He also has an army that he sends out. Yeah. And with this whole internet thing, he can influence you, like you said, with just the swipe of a finger and then maybe a lesser little, you know, grunt comes and whispers in your ear and then you buy into that and then he sends a stronger demon and then he sends a stronger. So just even knowing how to utilize what he has as forces at will, I don't think Satan has bought into the fact that he's going to lose one day. I think he fights like he thinks he's going to win. Right. And using technology to his advantage, like, I don't want, I won't even say what I was going to say, but I just feel like that's just like he fights like someone who, but in his, but the thing is he's fighting God who's already victorious. And I think, you know, he over, he overplaces Han like you were just saying with how evil he is to where God turns everything for good. So something like that tragedy led to millions of people going to church the next Sunday. Right. And hopefully a bunch of them stuck with it and then just go for one week. I can't know that for sure. But things like that, you never know what God's going to, you know, pull out of the ashes, so to speak, or something like that. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I'm sure that there was a certain amount of it. It was just emotional, an emotional response. So yeah, I will go to church the next week. But then along with that, there's, there's some percentage of people who are going to keep going. And, and regardless, it is, it is the evidence of a greater spiritual war that's going on that I think is doing the work, you know, and even even in the case, like I said, if it is the enemy that is attacking spiritually, when you see an attack of that scale, it makes it harder and harder to just play dumb and play complacent. And I feel like I can say that because that's where I was for a really long time, you know, just complacent and comfortable. So what's next for you, man? What do you feel like the Lord's leading you in this season? Yeah, I mean, it's a really good question. I am open to whatever He has for me. I actually don't try to figure it out. I know that one of the things that that recently I've felt led to do is to become more open, more vulnerable with people that I was never comfortable being vulnerable with before. So, so, you know, I'm, I'm willing for God to grow me. However, He sees fit, you know, I, I don't know what that looks like. Maybe it looks like me staying exactly where I am and just, you know, my, I've been taught that my first mission field is my kids, you know, so I, I, I definitely hope to be planning better seeds in them. But I, I, I'm open for whatever God wants. You know, recently I heard, I heard a friend of mine say that it's just about like constantly emptying, emptying of themselves. And that, that hit me because there, there are still areas where I need to be more empty, you know. And so, I'm just letting God do his thing because I do have the, the blessing of hindsight in my story and I can see that so far, it's worked out a lot better than the nod plan. So, praise the Lord, man, it's awesome to hear where you've been, where the Lord is at with you right now and just letting him lead you, man, there's no better place, you know, you don't have to have like this whole like in five years, this is what the Lord's called me to do, just knowing like you're following him every step of the way because sometimes it is just like a day by day step by step. And Jordan, I believe in for some big things, but like it's not like in our immediate unless he just comes down and does something miraculous. So like, just waiting on him but also being ready for that because we have to be ready for the call because like he could call you to do something tomorrow that's way bigger than what we could even possibly imagine, but we have to be ready for that, you know, we have to be prayed up, we have to be in our word, we have to be spiritually ready, we have to be at the edge of our seat ready, you know. And I think that's a place that we're at more so now with our with our willingness to serve, with our willingness to be used, not just be like a backseat quarterback to John or a Monday morning quarterback when we hear something because everyone has that where they hear something at church with like, I you know, I wasn't a set of like that. We all do it rather than do that and say, what can I receive out of this? Having a receptive heart. You care if I ask what you and Jody are believing for? Prosperity, man. I don't know how else to put it and I know people get kind of like weirded out by that concept and they think of greed and they and I just did a whole podcast on giving, giving just first or second Corinthians, second Corinthians, seven or eight. Anyways, we just went to a conference. It was all about giving and we bring that home and we expect to receive. We expect, I'm believing that our church is going to have the funds for our new building. I'm believing that the church is going to have everything it needs for staff for whatever as it grows. That's a lot, right? That's a lot to believe for, but I also believe like in that Jody and Argonne receive, we've had like specific words spoken over us, um, dealing with prosperity. John gave me a hundred dollar bills. I don't know if you were there. The Sunday he did. It's been a couple of years ago. He gave me a hundred dollar bill and he said like the prosperity, like the thing is there for you to grab. Prosperity is here for you to have. You just have to go out and take it, right? Yeah. And I was like three years ago. I was like an alcoholic. I was like waiting for the Lord to say like, wake up and smell the roses, Daniel. And God was like, I want to bless you, Daniel. And I was like, you want to bless me? I don't even like feel like I know where you are right now. It like broke me. It was like so weird for me to receive that, that time was like, God, you're so much bigger than my ignorant, my childish moment of failing and you're just ready to bless me. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's it in a nutshell. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's crazy. I'll be praying for you guys. It's not crazy. It's just like, no, it's, I don't, we don't know what it is. Like Jody's business oriented. It could be a business. It could be this. I have no idea. And I don't, it doesn't matter. I like, I just want, we just want to be faithful in whatever we have. And part of that is being a good steward of what you do have. Yeah. So yeah. Just when you were sharing that man, the compassion of Christ and just how he, he always meets us exactly where we need to be met. And, and I think that there are so many, so many Christians that think they're, they're once in a way from losing salvation because that's such a, such a default mindset is this like condemnation and fear. I've lived that. I know exactly what you're talking about. And, and instead what he says is, I'm, I'm given all you got to do is receive. I mean, we've never got up more than enough, man. You can't read the story of Abraham and you can't read these stories in the Bible. And I think God doesn't want to bless you. And it's more than just financial, so financial dude, like just being sober over a year and having a loving relationship with my wife, that's not constantly in turmoil, constantly at breaking point. Right. I mean, you know what that's like where it feels like you just, you get resentful because you, you feel like it's all fallen apart around you. And just to be healthy and happy and loving and have your kids be healthy and happy, people don't have their kids. Man, they lose their kids every day. Like people die and there's so much death and evil in this world. So just to live in the blessing of the Lord doesn't mean like I have a million dollars in the bank account. So we're believing for this prosperity, but it doesn't just, it's not just money. You know, it's like in life. Yeah. Anything else for the people before we hop off here? Man, honestly, I could sit here and talk about Jesus all day long, but no, I think you can come back anytime for sure. Well, I think, you know, I've shared my heart and I've shared what God's done for me. And that's really what I wanted to do. And like I said, man, more than anything, I hope that, you know, obviously if someone's in addiction, you know, I want freedom for them from that. But what I hope resonates more than anything else is that I lived life as a slave twice, you know, I was a slave to, to addiction, but that's almost easier because it's tangible. It's this thing that I know that has control over me. But the second time around that, that's the, the more abundant miracle that just keeps on growing in my life because I was, I was a slave to my comfort and God broke me of that. And it, it's only by his grace that I'm awake, you know, and I still, I still got waking up to do, you know, but man, it's a, I, I don't know how to be grateful enough. Yeah, we all have our different things that we've, we've struggled with, you know, addiction might not hit home with everybody, but you're addicted to something. It doesn't have to be a drug. And one of those addictions easily is comfort. We just, as a Christian church, we've just grown to where we just want to be comfortable. And that's one of the most dangerous places to be because it's real easy to do with AC, with food, where we have more than enough, right? Yeah. We are blessed. Like I'm already living in, in abundance, I don't have to like worry about eating. Like I have to choose not to eat. Like I have to choose to fast. Yeah. Like some people don't have a choice. So we are blessed and that comfort, it can come and snatch up what the Lord's doing in your life real fast because in complacency, you sometimes get envious of what other people have. And then you're kind of comfortable looking at what other people have. And you're just like, why don't I have that? Yeah. Whenever you have more than enough. And it gets you, it gets you kind of away from being thankful and grateful and moving forward with that kind of mindset. And it's just, last thing, it's just so dangerous because Jesus didn't die to give us comfort and AC and enough food to eat. Yeah. You know, he, he died and gave us a very clear mission. And a lot of people just, I, I, instead of saying a lot of people, I'm going to say me, I constantly questioned, you know, this vision of what is God's will for my life. Well, it's that, that question's answered. You know, it's, it is the Matthew 28, 19 vision. That is God's will. And so am I, am I being obedient to that? Or am I comfortable? And yeah, yeah, I just, I don't, I, it's so badly just want to be a vessel of hope for anybody who is comfortable that God's got, God's got so much more. Every answer you need is in the word of God. What, what your purpose, whatever question you have, it's going to be a simple answer most of the time. And then the complexity comes with you following it out and you being obedient to it. And then the Lord guiding your steps because like, you know, we're all called to go. What does going look like for you? I don't know. The Bible doesn't say go and be a janitor, but that might be what you're called to do. You have to go find that thing, right? And so God's called you in your season to serve a faith center peduka with the children. And then he's called you to more, you know, with work and whatever. And just, not just the kids, but the adults, anyone in that church, you're called to, you know, help. And then I'll, and in the community wherever he leads you. And so could that grow? Yeah. 100%. It could lead to the nations. There's a camera dying on us. That camera has about a two hour battery on it. Which, hey, I think it's pretty good. Yeah. So thank you so much, Tyler. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Daniel. It's been a blessing to have you. It's been really cool to get to know you better. And hopefully it doesn't just stop here. Hopefully we can continue to get to know each other better. Yeah. Absolutely, man. All right. I've talked to you guys next time.
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The host and guest reflect on their past involvement in a church discovery group and the value of authentic father-son relationships.
The guest shares his personal journey from a legalistic, rebellious youth to a period of atheism and substance abuse, influenced by family dynamics and social pressures.
He discusses how resentment toward his upbringing and an inability to meet perceived spiritual standards led him to reject faith temporarily.
The conversation highlights the struggle with identity, the allure of substances as a coping mechanism, and the eventual realization of grace and maturity in faith.
Both acknowledge the role of supportive relationships and personal growth in overcoming past struggles and finding deeper spiritual understanding.
Summary:
In this podcast conversation, the host and guest, Tyler, reminisce about their initial connection through a church discovery group and emphasize the importance of genuine father-son dialogues. Tyler recounts his upbringing in a Methodist household, where his father was a spiritual leader, but he experienced resentment and rebellion during his youth. He describes a phase of legalistic faith in his early teens, fueled by social aspects of church, which later shifted to atheism and substance abuse as he struggled with perfectionism and identity.
Tyler explains how alcohol and drugs provided a false sense of belonging and relaxation, leading to a period of turmoil. The discussion underscores the challenges of navigating faith, family expectations, and personal flaws, ultimately highlighting themes of grace, maturity, and healing through relationships and spiritual growth. Both speakers reflect on their past mistakes and the transformative power of understanding and patience in their journeys.
FAQs
Recognize that resentment often stems from a misunderstanding or legalistic view of faith, and focus on building a personal relationship with God rather than following rules. Many go through a rebellious phase, but maturity and openness can lead to reconciliation and deeper understanding.
Substances like alcohol can provide temporary relief from feelings of inadequacy or social anxiety, but they often mask deeper issues. It's important to address the root causes, such as seeking identity in Christ rather than external validation, to avoid dependency.
Parents should prioritize authenticity and vulnerability, creating a safe space where children feel heard without judgment. Modeling healthy communication and showing genuine interest in their lives can encourage deeper connections and trust.
A large age gap can lead to feelings of isolation or being 'the last of the Mohicans,' where younger children might feel overlooked. However, it can also provide unique perspectives and opportunities for growth, depending on family dynamics and support.
Shift focus from rule-following to understanding grace and reliance on the Holy Spirit. Engaging with scripture, like Romans 5-8, and seeking community can help move from performance-based religion to a heartfelt connection with God.
This often stems from a lack of realistic self-assessment, where individuals see themselves as either at the top or bottom relative to others. Root causes can include unresolved anger, identity issues, or a need for external validation, which can be addressed through self-reflection and spiritual grounding.
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