Episode 108: The Notebook & conflict resolution

We're proud to have today's episode sponsored by Ergo Patch. An Aussie company born right here in Melbourne. It all started when found that Alina Sack, a sleep deprived mum, sowed her first sleeping bag to help her restless pub sleep better. That little idea grew into a trusted brand making beautiful organic sleepware that supports your child's development from newborn to six years old. The products are TOG rated for warmth, made from certified organic content and built to last. They're also big on sustainability, which is something I'm really passionate about, especially when it comes to looking after the environment for our kids. So please check them out and show some love as they're helping pop culture parenting grow into the future. Dr. Billy Garvey, that is episode 108 in the can, conflict resolution and the notebook. What are people going to learn this week? Yeah, we're going to the movie a bit. It's really fun, the episode felt like. Considering it was about conflict resolution. And then we talked about a framework that hopefully is really helpful. It can be used with three different groups. We want to spoil the reveal with three different groups, including young kids. And hopefully a really helpful framework to support something. It's really important and shouldn't be as hard as it is. Fantastic framework. And you're going to hear me really stumble through it and work through it. So a bit of a tough listen there for me to pull out seven right hands. Just a quick shout out as well. Thanks to those who joined the Patreon. We've had a couple of live listens. And I think people are really enjoying it. So we'd have AMAs over there. So ask me innings with Billy after hours. And Nick and me. Yes and me and other people as well. So thanks to you guys who are supporting that. Really appreciate it. Enjoy the episode and make sure you get through your questions as soon as you listen to this one. Especially if it's a week after it's just coming out. We'd love those questions. Thanks Nick. Thanks Billy. Hi. I'm Billy, a developmental pediatrician. And I'm Nick, a developing parent. We're going to use things to work on activities to talk about how we best support our kids. This is Bob Contra Parenting. Hey. I'll let you mother smell that pure and impressive. Take it out on me. I wish you and your brother were alive. I didn't want to see anything for the outside. Where's your daddy and what does it do? Just your best judgment. Good afternoon, Dr. Billy Garvey. How are you? I'm good. Just good, mate. It's been, yeah, it's been a big, big 24 hours, big two weeks, big two weeks, since the last recording we did actually. I think I texted during a high analogue. I texted you when I was on my way to landing a front flip. I was a 42-year-old and a trampoline. I was like, I finally made it. That teenage boy is good enough. He didn't just tell me, you go, oh, can you do a front flip? And I was like, no, okay. Oh, that's right. Just the way I meant to ask. As I said, can you, oh, wow, yeah. Now that you mentioned it, I think I got the video. I already uploaded it to sent it. Four different angles of my friend. Got the kids holding it. No, give it steady. Yeah, and then two days later, I was brushing my teeth and saw a white hair in my beard. And I saw you two weekends in a row. We had dinner or and a party. Yeah, it's party, which is right. That's right, we had dinner in a barbecue. Yes. We had been hot legs. Yeah, yeah, I got to see. So it's all socially. But yeah, yeah, pub. Yeah, God, that's three weeks in a row. Yeah, yeah, it was amazing. Goodness. Yeah, wow. Yeah, for an instant. Really? You're not clever. Maybe that's why I've been so glad you're telling me. It's a real shortness to your ability. You just answered a question, actually. Why am I feeling so tired? Maybe I'll write it to go wild. Anyway, I had to go wild. I'm sweaty. I'm really hot, I don't know why. You go. Yeah, really good. Yeah, really good. No compliance. Getting back to some normalcy post-school holes. Just that sort of stuff that, oh, good. Now, pretty up and about, heading in a little bit of a birthday season around our house. Yes, and we kicked it off yesterday. And listeners will not be surprised at all. But you were phenomenal. You were just so amazing. Do you know what the funny thing is? I didn't tell you this. We went through all the kids that came and it was like, eight kids or something. She's naming them all like, really excited. And then she goes, Nick. Only parent that got named is one of the kids. You put an obstacle course in front of me for one. I did the whole thing straight away. And then I was like, there was goal-kinging practice. And I was like, this was going to. I really bodyed out those kids as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a bit of, I'm forgetting so much of the tackles. But, um, and yeah, and listen, I both said, actually, just how lucky we are to have you in a life now. Amazing you are, because lots of reasons. It's about a million of them. But yeah, if you struggle a few times and we couldn't get it back into playing, we've failed a couple times and then you swung in and jumped on the table all the way there. That's the easy stuff. Like, that's, it's not made. A lot of people don't make that effort. A lot of people don't succeed at it. You put all the work in with them. It's beautiful to see Charlie. He's thinking about it now. Well, thank you. You're really nice. Thank you. Yeah, it's good when you've got other people that can give you that sort of chop out and break it up a little bit, because yeah, they seem to, what is it? The contrary. Why are they contrary to what's parents sometimes children? What is it? Well, there's a bit of independence in it. But, you know, like, I won autonomy, you know, kind of. Yeah, I wouldn't expect about this. Like, yesterday, during the party, and I was working at Analysts Better Sense about, like, it's kind of a joke now about how much I say I love Evie and how much I want kisses and cuddles off her. Well, I mean, it's, yeah. Analysts is like, because I didn't, I asked for opinion. She didn't give it to me, I'm solicited. But I was like, yeah, I worry, I'm overdoing it a bit. And she's like, yeah, you might be, because you've kind of made a game about her not wanting it. And I think you said that, yeah, you grew up sometimes, like, just getting told all the time. Yeah, my mum used to say it all the time. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's kind of, it's one of those things, isn't it? Like, you obviously knew how much your mum is doing how much your mum loves you. Yep. But it's, yeah, just that kind of forcing a lot of kids away. So, I'm just, yeah, because I just, obviously, like you, I just adore my kids. And so it's, it's very exciting. Bush. And I had a great time yesterday. Yes. Are we getting to cruise walls and windslocks? Yeah, what should we start with? You go first and you pick what you want. OK. I don't object to fun. I love fun. In fact, I'm the grand funk master of fun. Do you want to go first? OK, first. Mine's a bit of an odd one. OK, another odd one. But it was, it made me feel really good for all the work that we're doing and you're doing, particularly you're doing. But I was, I took the kids to a pub recently. I don't know why. Well, it froze up, I was really proud of myself. Yeah, I don't know why I should have really practiced this story. It took the kids to high tea. But it's a place I used to enjoy high tea. So I went to this really cool pub that I used to go to. And I rolled with my kids, and I was like, they're really cool pub. And I was, this story's kind of great. And I go to, I was at the bar and I was like, oh, I just could do back here. You know, sort of take the girls here and blow the ones. And I was, I was like, oh, I'm, you know, dead now. I'm like, cool, dead, like, cool. And I was chatting. This guy goes to me. He's cool. This guy at the end of the day was like, you got their podcasts and I go, I go, oh, yeah, I'm in the podcast. And he goes, it's really good. And I was like, oh, of course. And I said, um, you got kids, you know, if you got kids or your teacher or something, he's like, no, I go, oh, yeah, he goes, no. Just really parenting myself. Just really like listening to it. I went, oh, I said, oh, like I hadn't had that response from someone. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And I was a bit like, oh, it's like that's great. And I said, oh, cool. Thanks. And I left him behind. Yeah. Well, no. That's not easy. I've learned from Bill. No. But I was like, oh, that was, it's not a, I was just, I thought that was a really nice thing that someone, yeah, he's not, yeah, he just said that and I was taken aback. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. Like that's great. Yeah. I hadn't heard the response. Do you know what I mean? Totally. It was a while ago, but I remember going into, yeah, a place in two, like 20-year-old, you know, a couple came up and it was like, hey, man, I was like, oh, that's the coolest over me. I was like, I really love what you're doing. Actually, no. Someone, a young guy came up to me to a farmer's market, like ran out of the stall to come and tell me. Yeah. So it's phenomenal. Some of the other day, like I said, sorry for bothering. It was like, you're not bothering me. Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah. No, not at all. Your showing gratitude, which we're going to talk about on topic. Oh, really? And it just makes me feel like we're going to go to the topic. So, no, you don't know the topic. So yeah, maybe actually, maybe I'm going to start, because my main thing is it starts actually as a grizzly and becomes a win-sale. So, OK. So maybe let's go. Grizzly is still. Yeah. Hey. Don't let your mother smell that beer and your breath she'll take it on on me. So one thing that this promise that relates to parenting, one thing, you know, the parent, the pop culture parenting is part of social enterprise, God in growing minds that's trying to like really share what we're doing clean for, broadly, most kids will never see us, those that do have a long late list. So much of this is like stuff that we can do in the community with trusted relationships that already exist, the amazing caregivers and educators and everyone else, not me. The book has been a really amazing thing. We've talked about a fair bit. It's getting translated into another language now, like really cool, but we got some really good advice back when I wrote it about, like, keep your power to dry in the UK in the States because you want a partnership with someone who's going to help with reach and media. Gotcha. Had this amazing support from someone who's trying to help with that. We said no to a couple of deals because this one was potentially happening and I've been waking up every morning for about two months, waiting to hear about this, just really stressed about it. And I've been like, just not sleeping well because I'm like drinking less, which is, you know, I've talked about that before, but just like waking up at three, you can't fall back asleep. Two nights ago, the night before I was birthday, I woke up and found out the one we'd been hanging out for fell through. And I was just like, oh damn, I was like, so pumped for that. I was like, I don't know if you have this stuff. We like, this will be the thing that makes it all work because I was like, if we can engage better, like our podcast, you know, the book, the work we do at the States, like that will just be amazing because there's, you know, so many great partnership opportunities over there. It looks like it's going to work. So it looks like I'll be coming in September, maybe near if we can pull some strong media options, like, but, you know, so to be really cool to think about that trip being fruitful, but that was the idea was that, you know, the book partnership would all be sorted. So I've kind of been, just worried that I've been a bit selfish and, you know, trying to pull off bite off my leg and chew, but yeah, hoping that still works out. Work up 3 a.m. Saw the email, Evie's birthday's the next day. Couldn't get back asleep. Did this work, which is part of the Wednesday stuff, literally at 3.30 in the morning, just lying there in the dark that my therapist has been working on about, like, acknowledge how that makes you feel, makes you feel inferior, not good enough, everybody has told me I'm out to nothing. It's right. All of that stuff. Validate it, but then kind of go through it, you know, and process it and all that stuff and think about that. So I was doing that. I didn't fall back asleep. I got up. Evie wakes up. Super pumped. She's like, it's my party today. And she like couldn't sleep for two nights and all this stuff. And then this thing happened that was really powerful for me where she was so excited and she came up to me like, and she's like, hey, dad, are you going to be able to come to my birthday party? Expected me not to be coming. And I was like, fuck, she doesn't think I'm going to come to a birthday party because of how much I'm missing, because I don't come to most things. So, and you know, the thing is, it analyses, works long hours, but it doesn't ever so over the roster. I don't have to work as much as I do clinical, I don't have to do the social enterprise and you have to write the book. I don't have to do the podcast. Like, those are all choices I'm actively making and I probably complain about them too much. But those are selfish pursuits that I'm doing and I'm robbing time like kids for them. As my choice, because it fills me so much and I get more out of it than I put into it. But it was just a really big wake up call for me where I was like, man, my four year old daughter doesn't think I'm going to come to a birthday party and is asking a camera how she worded it. Like, she was asking, expecting I wouldn't be. And so I was like, knock the wind out of your sail. Yep. So, yeah. But once again, I did the work and I luckily just that week, the week is just where at the end of, I'd gone through this work with my therapist about feeling like because I'm chasing all this stuff that I'm not a good dad and, you know, and yeah, no, it's beautiful your responses to it, mate. You're making me, you're the one doing the call face work with me and the therapist is the one, like, which is what the podcast is trying to do. Yeah, let's do that stuff. Well, that's what the pod's trying to do. This is science and the evidence. Yeah. Well, he's like, he's like that in a critic needs to stop, but he's like, use it to try and get even better as a dad. Understand where that comes from in your child or all of that kind of stuff, you know. And so it's, so yeah, it was actually kind of became because I haven't been really, I'm like, the book will work out, like, hopefully something will happen now where an even more powerful partnership comes. People are still trying to help us with the States in the UK, but I'm like, I'm trying to get to that point where we'll talk about this more in other words, but it's slightly related to what we're going to talk about where I'm just like at peace with myself about stuff and I can take that feedback on externally and go, yeah, cool, use it, but use it in a healthy way. It doesn't challenge you. You are an enthusiast feeling as a shame and like, you're a failure and all that kind of stuff. So yeah. I'm not to swing in, I have your own cruise world, I've got to go, I've got to go, I've got a great one. But what I was going to say was, so I respect for the, the, the, the shrinks to Iron-Ear and all that. Just don't belong to shrink. Um, psychologists. Yeah. Um, yeah. Amounting to plenty. And you have plenty of your parent. Oh, you have plenty of your parent. I know. I can see you're going to go, I know that feel, I know that feels bad. I know you would feel bad, but I'm like, mate, I see it. Yeah. I see all of it. Yeah. I appreciate it. And it's like, have you remembered what I just said on the pod before a long time ago that I always forget who it is. There's an amazing MBA basketball player who's like, if all I'm remembered for is how good I was at basketball. I've failed at a lot of parts of my life. Yeah. And it was kind of like this real opening because, yeah, I just have a lot of, yeah, you know, a lot of anxiety and past trauma and screwing that up and like, you know, I'm getting feedback and I should know better and blah, blah, blah. So I really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing a great job. Yeah. Showed yesterday as well. Thank you. Thank you. I was, yeah. It was, um, it's a tough thing to birthday party isn't it because you kind of, like you talk about on the playgrounds, you kind of want to stand back and just let them play, but you also want to be in there, like, being a part of the memory, but also making sure it succeeds. Yeah. And I think that's you do that beautifully. But you want, like, it seems so silly. I'm going to say it, but you kind of want good photos from the day because that's often what the memory is. Yeah. Now I'm going to do it again. Half an hour where I didn't feel good or whatever you're like, yeah, let's get some smiles. It sounds bad, but it is part of it because then they, I think that that's what they might hopefully take away because sometimes kids don't take it away. But if you get some good photos, I know you had a really good day and once again, no surprise to listening to it somehow. You won the tug of war, won the athletics on the footy, but also took phenomenal photos. So I was, it's pretty kind of winning that tug of war, but they put six or seven kids on on it. I was right. I was like, you know what I was saying, but it's seen in the matrix where you were at, the cable ran his ears. I know how he popped up. I'm like, can I want kids? Beautiful mate. No. So what's, tell me, what's your grizzly? My grizzly happened about three meters from here, Billy, when I was at your house for, we had a barbecue, recently we're down family friends, yeah, we had a nice three of the traps together. Yes, yes. We got all the kids to get up and it was really good and everything was going pretty good. You know, it's busy and we were having water fights, it was lots of fun. Is it tough on the revisit for me, because it's really shitty what I did, but I've changed since then. So what is it was bad, but what I changed since then I've changed it and it's gotten better. Okay. So I feel like it feels shitty, anyway, right? So my, one of my kids wanted to do a performance and I like stop the whole party. The whole party was, I think it's about 12 of us, you know, there's eight kids or whatever in six adults or something like that, whatever the numbers are and it wasn't like a full swinging party and whatever. And I had a moment of like, I don't want to stop the party for you to do a performance thing. I was like, like, don't want to, the words around it, I don't know how to quite put them, but it didn't feel good. I was like, I don't want to stop. You know, we're just having a party like, why do I have to stop, you know, do this center of attention thing? And I didn't want to. I sense it. Maybe it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. No, it's not. I remember going out and I was like, oh, you know, I don't want to bloody, you know, like, do we, you know, do we have to with my attitude, which is shit. And what was your worry? And I can tell you, oh, I don't, why was my worry? I'm like, what were you feeling when that was potentially happening? I, I don't know, like it felt like special treatment or something or like, I don't want to go quite into probably what I just didn't, and so the party was flowing in your way. The party was flying. I was like, oh, and then it's just embarrassing like the way I reflect upon it, because it felt harsh. And anyway, what happened subsequently was we decided to put a song on, my kid danced. There's people who must be listening, he's going, you jerk, but I did it. And then I was like, then you go, I used to do this all the time, and I was like, oh, yeah, and then one of the mums there's like, well, I'm dancing next and busted out some dance, and she was phenomenal. And then probably the kids did it. And then I was like, and I just turned to Henry, I was like, why did we have such a problem with this? And I've done this before. It's a party for you to do a dance, and so shit, for a bloke, the puts his kids into dance and tap all week, and then when they go to want to perform, I go, oh, now, like, and I go, oh, the week before I'm like, I want to go dance at the disco, but I don't want to stop a party. And I was like, and then everyone had a little dance, and I was like, well, that probably wouldn't have any if I didn't do this. And it was really nice. And it just made me go such a prick move every other time I've not let it go and do it. And it also made me then subsequently like, now we practice before we go out, if there's going to be a barbecue or something, we actually prepare and do the dance and, you know, and we actually get of enjoyment and build up, and she feels great, and she comes out and does it. And here I am trying to build self-esteem, particularly in one of my daughters, and I'm like, no, and I'm like, it just maybe go, God, I don't know. That's awful, mate. I'm sorry. You felt like that. I didn't catch that. Well, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It is the way I feel, and all that. But I just felt like it was such a good gym in the fair, and part now, because of your feelings. But it's crap. And I don't know, I've just changed my whole attitude around it since then, like, last couple of weeks, whatever. It's just been so good. And you know, my experience of that was that that party was succeeding because of you, because you actually said to me, you were like, it's going to be harsh, and one thing I really like is when other parents get involved in the water play. Yeah. And you were still the main ones. I was. But the kids are so naturally drawn to like squirting you and all that stuff, and you brought stuff around that I was like, oh, this isn't some beautiful photos of you, like, the mall gang up on you and all this stuff. And that was a success because of you, and I know you're consciously putting effort into that, and I was trying to do it with you, not doing it as well as you. And I caution your daughter asking for it. And I went straight to egocentric, and I was like, yeah, man, I used to get the best feeling out of stopping all the adults, so I was like, hell, yeah, we're doing it. But I wasn't, I'd love to say it was because I was protecting your daughter's self-esteem. It was more that I was like, this is such a nice memory for my childhood, because I used to make my mum and all of her friends watch endless performances of me. Be sure, dressing up in like women's costumes and doing dance numbers. And I think my brother's probably hated it, because I was the main one doing it. And, but I think that it's quite funny, because your girls are like this, I went into stage performance because I loved it growing up, which is probably no surprise, you know, because I loved it so much, and that's probably why I like public speaking, and all that kind of stuff. But I think that, and it's funny, isn't it? There's this beautiful memory that I didn't know that was a part of that for you, where one of the boys caught this beautiful like 90 second clip of the kid's old dancing. And it's a shame not being able to share it on socials, because it's this beautiful moment of like, just kids dancing and everyone just enjoying them, and it's yeah. And I, and here I was, try to kibosh it, yeah, but I think the hard thing, the hard thing I totally understand where you're coming from, but the hard thing is that you, you may be slipped once when all the rest of us weren't putting in the effort that you were to be chasing, letting kids chase you around, like in your shorts and squirt you with water pistols, you know, including my 18-month-old, you know what I mean, and he's cackling laughing because he's wetting you and you're jumping and shrieking and all that stuff, like, and you're beating yourself up for the one time where it took you 30 seconds to catch yourself, like it's, well, no, it was you going, yeah, of course we can did the performance, and I was like, all right, we're doing it, and I still begrudgingly did it, and then afterwards I was like, well, no, and this would have happened if it had been my way, do you know what I mean? Yeah, but I think the most of the parties that I've never seen anyone facilitate kids being not just in the background of a party like you do, so I reckon it's more of a sensitivity in you that you are like, you know, don't stop it, don't stop the flow, don't get special treatment and all that stuff, and that's coming from a placement, that's coming from a place that makes sense, and we'll, yeah, that'll come up not your specific thing and no need for any deeper exploration of vulnerability from you, but our inner, the needs that are underneath our emotions are a really important thing for us to do with, and we're going to talk about that. Well, what are we talking about then? Well, let's talk about the notebook first. Well, let's talk about the notebook, sorry, the movie, yeah, sorry, the notebook. So yeah, the notebook, what do you think? I hadn't watched it in 15 years or something. When did it come out? 2004. Yeah. Just 21 years on. Yeah. He doesn't age. Who's pretty young in it? Yeah. He'd been in a bunch of stuff, but it was right off the back, I remember the Titans. Yeah. You loved it. Any chance for you to mention remember the Titans? We could be talking about Denzel Washington, the world, if we were going, maybe you remember the Titans. Yeah, Pete? If you're describing it, isn't he? Pete. Yeah. Just, yeah, you loved it. I just connected with it. My best mate in that period was 11 years ago, I was quite dark skinned and I think because it was like two guys and stuff, it is just a roll around like, we're like, oh, it's so many things. We're like, we're going to be cops together. I love it. I love it. It's like going together. We were from prep to like mid 20s, it was like, you know, a most platonic, you know, closest intimate relationship in like, you know, for the first 20 years of my life. And so we had this special bond over those tough movies, where they'd be like, you know, the African American guys, I'm really tough because he was really tough and strong and confident and I was like, the dorky white dude. So, um, so yeah, I have this strong connection, but yeah, and obviously McAdams, another movie we've done off the back of Mingles. I have, of course, yeah, Mingles. Yeah. That's why it's so weird that she's the Mingle in that. Yeah. And then she's, because what did you think? Do you like it or not like it? It's like, it's made. Uh, look, I, um, I'm much enjoyed the second half, the first half I was like, it was pretty long. Yeah, it's long, isn't it? Thought it was good. I thought it was good. I, you know, I was like, I wasn't enjoying it, I'll be honest. I miss you. I was like, oh, this is it. There's two hours. I was like, could be a little bit less. Like, I don't. Yeah. I feel so rude to those people that made these movies. I wouldn't feel too bad, mate. But I would be willing to. But I was. Yeah. They made $15 million on a $29 million budget. Why? It wasn't as much as it was long. Sorry. $85? I think. Anyway, um, no, no, I, I, uh, I just, yeah, now that I'm reflecting about it, I did like more than I probably let on. Yeah. Um, and I had some fun with the final scene. I sent you that photo with holding the hand. Oh, yeah. Totally. Um, which was, uh, it was, it was good. What did you think? So I think it probably, I remember watching it, I remember it being like, some people would say it's the best, like romantic movie, you know, you have a written, like, nickel spark. So we were talking about 11 of these books got turned into movies. So I'm going to start writing romantic novels. Yeah. I'm just going to chase fame. I'm just going to give up my therapist to help me. So it's all that. I really just go. Anyway. Yeah. I think it brought up a few things from my childhood. What? So the lighthearted, lighthearted, more less heavy topic stuff was, um, yeah, I was, you know how he, so, so I think Gosling's, Gosling and McAdams make it a good movie because they're acting as phenomenal, phenomenal. The chemistry they have. A lot of it ended up being real chemistry. I don't know if you know, the story. It did end up being real chemistry. It wasn't the start though. Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah. They had each other. They had each other. They used to want to read separately. Yeah. And then you see him coming in. It was funny bit about Gosling and the dude, the older guy that plays him because Gosling's like, he was, um, you know, really trained actor and really cares about his craft and all that kind of stuff. And so he's done all these like collared movies, but he's done with this amazing art and stuff as well. And it's supposedly, the guy that was just so rude to him because he'd like up and be like, what are we going to do about the fact that we've got different colored eyes who's going to wear the contact lenses and he was like, get away from it. Get away from it. Get away from it. Get away from it. Yeah. So, um, but it's interesting. So I was, it probably all know the story. He's like, uh, you know, wrong side of the tracks kind of guide us from wealth and McAdams as wealthy. I don't know if you had this. So I had a high school girlfriend whose parents didn't sat behind my back that said it to my face to your trash, like get away from her daughter, stay away from her. And I still remember that. I also had an adult relationship dad who, um, took me through a drive once, the only bad relationship I've had, the dad was this farmer took me through a drive to, um, drive me past the gun clovey's to shoot. I didn't say the average one. Wasn't two. Wasn't two hidden images. No. And this is what I'd hide a body, but the other thing, the more powerful thing about this movie is it has a really unhealthy depiction of conflict and of what relationships are like. Yeah. And we are so in love because yeah, I'm so passionate about you. That's why we fight so much. And I know about you. That's how I grew up. I grew up. I was a kid with conflict in the house the entire time and have unrepairable relationships now with family because of that because of overcompensation of protecting relationships because not wanting that conflict or, and I remember I talked about this in the pot, I think, or a talk idea. I remember recently, Evie was blowing up and I followed her into the room, you tell me. That happened in me growing up. Like that's what it was like. It was like, it's just a normal to scream at each other. And it's like an intensity of a relationship. And then you kind of go lucky that, you know, the, my relationships were never like that. But it kind of, I think, frame shifts a lot of people to go, I'd normally just scream at each other in a relationship. Right. And I know you're not like that. But it's interesting to think about that setup. And then we know divorce rates, for example, are so high. And thinking about what is our frame of what is a healthy relationship? Let's talk about romantic one. A lot of that gets built in your girls watching you and Henry now. And my kids watching me in Annelise. And I've got to remember that it's not us sitting down and going, you know, guys, this is what a healthy relationship is. It's them watching us show. We had one time where Annelise and I got heated in front of Evie. And it was hard, man. I don't know if I told you about this. She like started trying to distract us and change what we were talking about. I was like, far out. I don't remember that. My kids will say, stop yelling when we're not like yelling, no? Like the one. I'll show you. We're talking passionately about something, and we're like, ah, stop yelling. I'm like, well, we both look and go, this isn't yelling. You weren't in the 80s, like, this isn't, but maybe in there, maybe there's not used to it. I'm going to be careful, yeah. Well, beautiful. Maybe I'll be able to. I'm not, I'm not. Well, well, well, well, well, oh, man. That's not even a maybe really. I was going to say. It was close as anyone's come. But, yeah. So it's this interesting thing, I think, that this movie does about what is a relationship, what is conflict, how do you show someone you care about them? And obviously, there's this manipulation stuff. There is one redeeming feature of it where he just wants her to be happy, and he's like, go, and he kind of connects as well, like the one thing is that he sees her. And that's why he's like, how long has it been since you've been painting and stuff like that? He sees who she is. And she's kind of classic, which still obviously happened in 2025. Everyone makes decisions for her. So she has no abilities for most of the movie to connect with what emotions is experiencing and what needs underneath it. Which leads to the very famous scene of like, what do you want, which has been made a thousand times. Yeah. What do you want? Yeah, there's a really powerful one. What do you want? I forgot to tell you. That you had to start talking about the movie if you're a bird and you come a bird, because you know that. Do you remember that bit? No. Where she's like, just imagine you're a bird and you come back and it's like a beautiful moment on the beach. God, were you actually watching? Oh, the bit on the beach. I think I was sitting there going to Henry, that stage, I was like, oh, what? I think I feel bad. Well, I was like, sitting there going, yeah, this, like this moment, okay, we know that the romantically involved, like it was, I was, right, now it was, right, that part. And far I was like, oh, it looks so cold. You are a romantic guy. That's it. No. It's just nice. And maybe Henry's going to get it. This one would have been nice. All right. I mean, it was like, look at DCD, it's being nice to each other. Yeah. You need a two-year-old wedged suit. I need about four layers of sunscreen to do this thing. But yeah. So it's anyway. So let's, we'll come back to her saying. But I think that that is why I've chosen this movie, because it's so like, it became a cult movie. Yeah. It did. It really did. Yeah. So it did well. But also it's, yeah. And it understandably has some criticisms about some of the things that depicts an including Alzheimer's. But the, I think it, it does have some beautiful things in it, but it also has some really unhealthy representations of what relationships look like, especially in conflict. Just like, hey, do you know who Rachel had to beat out of the role? No. And she hadn't got the role the day before. Who? Jessica Beale. Oh, really? Britney Spears. Britney. Reese Witherspoon. Shoot him in great. Shoot him in great. Shoot him in great. And Ryan beat out Tom Cruise. Cruise ship. Tom, wow. Yeah. The cruise ship. Wow. Yeah. Okay. There you go. Different movie of cruise. Yeah. In it. Yeah. Cause God's name is great. Just both of them. You're both really good. Nonverbal facial expression, subtle acting. You didn't necessarily like love the film. As individuals, I love both of them. Same. Him in drive. I don't know how we can do drive. Oh. Can you find one? We can. Non-Parental Adopt. He's really protective of that boy. Yep. Okay. Can you please drive? Yeah. Oh my God. I love that moment. The soundtrack. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Just how he is. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. She's just great. Yeah. Great. Anyway. And Scott phenomenal dimples. Like you. Thank you. That's going to be true. He probably used to it. Three and a half years in. He realized. I can't see. Guys, we know what your film is pointing to his own image. Anyway. So let's get to topic. What's the topic? Yeah. How we go. Time wise. We're not too bad, actually. Like resolution. Oh. Handy. Handy. Between kids or between our partners or both. Yeah. What's the other. What's kids? Your self part. Oh. I just thought there was anyone. I'm laughing. Yeah. It's nailing it. Nailing it. Oh. Are you contractual? We're going to do this with me. Maybe at the point where you could do it without me. Okay. Conflict resolution. We haven't done this. Yeah. We haven't done it. We need this. We need it. Yeah, we need it. So to big one's conflict. Well, yeah, what is conflict? Yeah, posing opinions. Yeah, posing views. Yeah. Yeah, from the same page, I'm just gonna keep talking to you. Give it in a turmoil. In a turmoil. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, conflicted. I'm conflicted. Ah, because how often do you reckon you get? Yes. She's usually conflicted. Constantly. Yeah. I think it's because I got a bit of empathy. Yeah. Is that what that drive a bit of it? Yeah, because I'm always trying to think. Are we talked on the part about when kids do all the empathy? We don't know the part. Oh, we do. Yeah, we have where they do something for the kid next to them in the experiment of it. Yeah, I shouldn't be so flippant with someone's brilliant research. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, but it's an important part about it because one of the criticisms of what we're going to talk about is that when can you teach kids conflict resolution? I'm fascinated to also know how this is different or works in with things like when they're dysregulated. Yeah, like because you should give it a co-regulate, but that's not is that resolution. Here we go. This is what. Yeah. So let's. Let's all end on the kids alone on the kids. I smell you a three-parter. Yeah, yeah, hopefully, hopefully. So yeah, I always feel like I'm now do questions come in. Thank you always though one person is as I liked it. Yeah, so lots of lots of big part of our lives, big part of my daily life against part of your daily life conflict. Yeah. And who do you have the most conflict with yourself or the people? Myself and my kids, yeah, yeah, it depends what you're going to find conflict as now because I'll be like, oh, yeah, I'm just a bargy stashed. It's constantly with the kids, but like, yeah. And what about the pool? I'm like, no, what would you do with potential conflict with an adult? If you can think about, you know, to tell us it, but what's the thing about the last time? Yeah. And what why why are you avoiding it? Because the main busy, I don't want to hurt someone's feelings about always. What about if it's the cost of your own? I don't like that. What do you do then? Resolve, hash it out. Okay. How do you hash it out through words? Okay. How do you do that? I would probably say, I'd probably try to get really clear with them all where they're coming from on a certain point. So I understand it clearly. I'm going to explain my side of the story. Yeah. Okay. So you feel like you do have a framework? I don't apply it. I just try to barge through. Well, firstly, when do you decide whether you're going to use the framework or whether you're going to avoid? When I catch myself, which I don't do. So you catch yourself and don't avoid, catch yourself. Well, I don't catch myself. Okay, everyone. I'm a thousand miles an hour. It's a little like going on, Billy. A full time job. Kids need you picked up and dropped off. Yeah, different locations. Yeah. But meetings, good stuff. Fun, hard, but it's hard to be. So what will determine if you use your framework? Yep. Yeah. Capacity, like a passie. Yeah. And who taught you that framework? I don't know if it's for work. Yeah, it's going to work. Do you got some training somewhere? Yeah, definitely. I've got some training. The components of feedback. Yeah. I've got it. I've got a framework for feedback. Yeah. From work. Yeah, totally. Do you have one? Do you reckon you got your conflict resolution right from there? Don't have one for work. Try and get what do you say? You're trying to get perspective of trying to get clear on where the other person is coming from. And then what was your second step? Oh, no. So my work one's different. My work one's like specifically pointing out an occasion where something's happened. Communicating how that sounded or come across. It's impact. And then slot it, sit with the person and chat about it, and then say, and then sort of hash it out from there, like just to be really specific about something. So you know, attacking the person talking about a specific situation. I like, hey, do you do that with your kids? On top of last night, I was shot on the patience of the end of a long day. Since it's been a big day, girls. I am, I am, I didn't say running out of patience. I said, uh, what does that say? I said, girls, I'm getting to that point where, uh, I just said it, girls. I, you know, like, because we made deals and deals were broken. You know what you're like? Well, mate, I'm going to give you the path out. Okay, let me ask you. Plus not like, they made a deal. And they really, they backpedaled and went several ways, and it all fell apart and dead said, there's been promises made. But anyway, I don't know how old he gets so hot. How old are the girls? Just to remind people. Yeah. Promote, mate, that would articulate. We can rewatch. We can rewatch this part of this show, rewatching the Anzac Day, put a game, opening ceremony. Not opening ceremony. Yeah. Yeah. Portant ceremony with is the National Anthem because they love it. Yeah. And what was that was that? What did you get out of it? What was your, what they put on the table? No, no, as in what deal was broken? Oh, I just said we can watch this, but it's straight to bed afterwards. Yeah. Not straight to bed. I'll get the books. Whatever. And then it went and someone just was like. This contract old man. Please look to the bedroom. Tell me down on the cat. Like, not communicate. Beautiful. God. It's a great. Mate, why do you think it failed? You want a better framework? Yep. Next time. How to set the deal or result? Okay, tell me. Yeah. It's a good sign. I said, hey, this note is going to come up tonight in my house. Can we watch that? Yeah, can. But you got to go to bed afterwards. Yeah. Okay. It's typical. It's pretty typical. It's pretty typical. So what do you do? Yeah. So let's let's talk about this. It's heaps of great literature. We'll all be able to cover maybe one of them, but let's let's cover one that relates to what you're just talking about. There's a guy who's passed away a few years ago called Marshall Rosenberg. He's an American psychiatrist who has worked in the non-violent communication space. He's written books about it. He's God. He's got expertise, obviously in training, which we really value in this space, but also he's got a lot of experience in like war zones, talking to tribal leaders that like massacred the other person's tribe. And he goes in and has to get them to resolve the conflicts. Does a lot of stuff with kids nonviolent communication. Sorry. Beautiful question. So nonviolent communication comes from the premise that we can actually resolve a lot of our differences without aggression, threats, accusations, judgments, all of that. And Marshall would argue that most of the violence that occurs in the world in terms of in family homes and non-large scale war conflict is because of how poorly we communicate with each other. And he has a framework that he has built. He's also very dry. So if anyone goes and checks him out in, there's a lot of content of his online, which is amazing. He's like everyone. He's not a perfect human. But he's, yeah, he's got some really amazing stuff where he delivers. Like so he's talking with these like so promise I'll give the framework, but there's just some funny stuff about it. He talks about how there's like he changes a little bit, but there's wolf language or jackal language, which is like aggression, hostility. You'll do what I want because I'll say threats, punishments, demands. We'll talk about demands. And you might have you made a demand last night, which is where you failed a bit. You possibly should have made a request, do you know what the difference to a demand request is. Do you think after we watch this, you guys can go to bed. Yeah, so what's the difference to a demand request? They. I'm not giving them an out. I'm not I'm being flexible. Yeah. And a request is asking for them and they're buying or they're choosing to do it. Yeah, they're choosing to do it. Now think about life. What's one of the things that sucks about life? All lots of things, all the things, all the things that you have to do that you're under doing because you think you have to. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people that would be work. Yeah. When does that start in life? No, when you ask him to put their shoes on or go to bed. Yeah. Starts here, doesn't it? Yeah. Well, is it always needed to be like that? Well, why do you think this is why? Seven years of thought of 44 years of feelings had to be like that. Why do you think so many teenagers don't go to school anymore? So don't care about it. Have you been told you have to go to school? Yeah, because I say that shit. Because they never intrinsically we pitched as a request and found a reason why they wanted to go and chose to be at school because they benefited them. Okay, we don't do it all the time, but we've got to build opportunities for kids because kids have underlying needs. And often when their emotions boil up and struggle is because those needs aren't met such as last night having a sense of autonomy. All right. And the girls didn't have that. So it's not like it's not permissive parenting. But I thought I was. But I thought I was. I was like totally. But when conflict arose, which is what we're going to talk about, you just, there was, there's another path which you should try and it's evidence based and developmentally appropriate and all that kind of stuff. And you can do it from quite a young age that we'll talk about that I do with Evania and she's. So it's listeners. Just probably. Sorry, it's probably not to say, well, we can't ever do this again. No. So why does that? Why is that bad? Because then I'm sort of shooting myself in the foot next time because then I'll let them have it again. Yeah. And so I didn't really mean anything. It's conditional support. And as you will do it because there is a punishment. And it's also these guys, including Marshall Rosenberg would say, praise is not good either. And we'll do a separate topic probably on rewards. But he's argument is that you. What do you do? You'd never challenge who the kid is. But I'm trying to work on that at the moment. I challenge who the kid is. I can see why that's important. Yeah. So you raised a really good point. So he does this amazing stuff. So let me just tell you very quickly. So the African tribal leaders, he goes in. They've like decimated each other's crowds. He talks about jackal language and like they shout across, you know, your murderers. You murder all our people. It's like heavy and motive threats, judgments, accusations, all that stuff. And we do that at much lower level. And then the other guys and he has, he talks about instead giraffe language. And giraffe language is, he says, derives because it's all about thinking from the heart. And giraffes are the land mammals with the biggest heart. And he says, you've got to have giraffe language and understand what is the need. That is underneath the person who's like you guys are murderers. And that's how you will find that path back about what is it. And I'll step through the way that he does it. But he literally is in like these. He goes into refugee camps and stuff. And they're like his America and his murderer and all this stuff. And he can listen to it and not take it personally. It's this beautiful thing that I'm so jealous of him. But this is how we do this work because he puts a hunt literally. Costume giraffes. So he's in like East Africa in a village. Two guys going at each other. He puts them on. Doesn't in the refugee camp does it in the school. He's so dry that one of the schools he talks about. They were like, there's all the teenagers here are smashing all the windows. We don't know what to do about it. He's like, what's your goal? And he's like, they don't smash the windows. He's like, I've got a perfect solution. Give it to the windows. No, he's like killed them. But his point is like, that's not what you actually want. That's not what any of us want. You last nice watching a thing. You want connection and partnership. Yep. Now the jackal language he talks about is authority hierarchy. I made the call here, not you. And that's what we know. He's the authoritarian parenting that fails and leads to kids not having that in a sense of motivation of worth intrinsically driven towards things and having a voice. So let's talk about his steps because they're really helpful. And then we might even roleplay one with you and me and then there's a kid. So first step is observation of what happened. I said this and then you said that. Quotes. I said you would watch this and you'd go to bed. Yep. I've asked you to go to bed and you've said, you're not going to bed. It's not you're not listening to me. You're disrespecting me. You went back on an agreement we made. You're being rude to me. All those things are unhelpful and will stuff up any opportunity of conflict resolution. Okay. So you don't do that. Then second step is seven steps, but it gets easy because the first three and the last three are the same. Okay. Second step is this is how I felt. Yeah. She, one of your daughters didn't make you feel like that. You chose to feel like that. Yeah. And I felt angry. Yep. Third thing is this is the need that is not being that underneath it. Control. Or love. Yep. You know what I mean? So yes. Yeah, lots of different needs. There's lots of different needs. Yeah, yeah. Scent of belonging. Lots of different needs. Safety, security, creativity, like lots of those things they talk about. Then the trick is you make a very specific request. I would really appreciate it if you did this. And it can never be. I would really appreciate it if you stopped doing that. Stop hitting. Stop swearing at me. Stop trying to punch me. Stop throwing rocks through glasses through windows. Now the trick is this specific request is not a demand. And we're not even talking about consequences on the other side of her and you give the kid the opportunity to do it. Now you're not waiting for to praise them. You're waiting to then do the first three steps again. You listen to me and you got up and you went and brushed your teeth. That made me feel really good inside because we succeeded together at something. And it met my need of love and connection with you. That genuine celebration of succeeding in a moment of conflict will rewire both of your brains to be better at the next time it comes up. Does that make sense? Yeah. So let's do it for us. Just give me the quick three steps again. Need. No, no. Not observation. Observation. Emotion. Need. Specific request. I asked you not to hit your sister and you hit your sister. That made me scared and angry. I felt. I felt scared. You don't want the kid to be feel like they made it. I felt. I felt really scared when I saw how upset she was. And. What's your need underneath? I need. I need you two to get along. No. Why do you need them to get along? I need you to show how much you love each other. Yeah. What's below that? I need you to. Be nice to. I don't know what. I can. I can try guess for you. Tell me. I need to be in a family where everyone feels loved and is loved. Yeah. I need to be in a family where everyone feels safe. Beautiful. Even better. Cool. What's your specific request? Then tonight. Don't stop hitting your sister. I would like it. If you two didn't. Nope. I. I'd love it. If you two could play gently for the next hour. Yeah. I'd like for, I'd like until lunch time for you guys to play outside without eating each other again. Yeah. Okay. That's just important there for sex. Beautiful. Tell me. What's going to happen if you do that? And they go, okay, run outside. If you were gambling man. They might hit each other again. Yeah. How did you stop that from happening? I'll go out there. Yeah. What can you do on the request? Just stop that from happening. I'm going to come out there and help you. Play before lunch time so you don't hear each other. Yeah. You don't want any part of it to be stopped doing something. So what you might say is what I would really like. And it would make me really happy is if I go get that puzzle that you haven't had a look at yet. I put it down on the ground in the kitchen while I'm doing the dishes. And you showed your little sister how good you are and teach her how to do a puzzle. Okay. It's tight. It's achievable. It's scaffolded. You're observing. It's really specific. You can reinforce it in the moment. And they do it. Look at that. You showed her how to do the puzzle and she's better at it now. I feel so happy and warm inside. Because it's helped me feel like we all love each other and support each other in this house. Gotcha. Bang. Okay. You're good with the key. Yeah. I need a top. Yeah. Go. Yeah. Well, let's just say. Let's just make one up. You. I. I'm really pissed off, mate. I've been saying how much I want to hang out with you, heaps. And you're really disrespecting me because you haven't been wanting to see me. And it makes you feel really crap. And you know how important relationships are to me. And I'm really pissed off that you just don't respect me. And you seem, I seem to be the least important person in your life. Okay. You sound like you're pretty upset with me because we haven't caught up recently. Yeah. Yeah. So you're doing a beautiful thing. You tell me no, how could I do that better? I'll give that to you. I will do. I was going to be the one that's like. Yeah. How did you feel? How did you feel when I said that? Hi, recently you've cancelled a couple of. Recently we've had plans to catch up a few times and you've cancelled with me. So I'm playing what the beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, we'll do it this way. Right. Because how did you feel when I did it before? It was attacked. Yeah. I was like, oh, we can't ever do that. You're going to go home and text me because hey, let's catch up for a beer. No. And if you did, why would you do it? Would you do it? Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. So that's the teachers at school that are like. You've got another suspension. You keep doing that. Stop it. All right, that's me. Okay. What? So which is like not a lot of teachers like that. Hey, we've had a couple of catch ups in the diary recently. And on two occasions you've cancelled those. Beautiful. I love the time I spend with you because it's always good to have a beer and a wine. And it does wonders for my mental health. That the need for those. How did you feel when I cancelled? Yeah. I felt, um, I felt pretty ordinary when you cancelled because I felt like you don't like me. And I need to, and I, I'd, if I'm going to hang out, well, I need to know my mates really like me. I'm fucking this up. No, not at all. So if I was saying, so if I said to you, I would say, hey mate. So setting is important for this stuff as well. I wouldn't rarise you like with other mates around and make sure the time is based and all that stuff. So we'll talk about that maybe next time. But in the scripted approach to it, what we would be saying is, hey, I messaged you last week saying, let me know over time to catch up for a beer in the next fortnight. And I haven't heard back from you yet. Oh, sorry mate, yeah. It just makes me feel sad and like I mean adequate. Because I have this need underneath of having really rich relationships and feeling loved by the people that are in my life. Would it be okay if you have a look today and see one time that works for you that we could catch up in the next week for a beer? Then you text me. We have a beer and at the beer, I say I really loved it. How you texted me to say that this night worked. They knew if you were really happy and gave me something to look forward to. And I met my need to have beautiful people and relationships in my life and feel loved. Gotcha. Bang. Gotcha. Now, in a lot of moments in life, we don't have the, you know, the depth of relationship that we have together. But think about it, like I, I find myself quite easily agitated in everyday life. Yeah. Like way more than you, I suspect because you're just a karma nicer, greater empathy. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But so I, now I can roll around and be like scream at someone because I don't pick up after their dog. And I, I have three dysfunctional coping mechanisms, like a lot of people. Overcompensation, avoidance, anger. That's what I've learnt in conflict. I void, I overcompensate, and toggle the blame. Or I get angry. Why do we avoid as little kids and as adults? Why do we avoid or overcompensate and take the blame? Because the, what are we afraid of? Yeah, and what's the repercussion? What's the most devastating thing that can happen to us as a love you? Yeah. A loss of a relationship. We are social beings. It's why we've survived the thousands of years. We are innately built neurologically to fear separation from people. That's why people stay in unhealthy relationships, where people abuse them and neglect them, because of the threshold of being alone and losing that social connection is worse, than having a healthy way of resolving conflicts where you say, "I don't like this anymore." So when I'm rolling around, I can either avoid it and shut it down and bear it. Guide it, it upsets me. And people, just for an example, don't pick up after their dog. I can overcompensate, and just pick it up myself, and like, if they see me, just apologising and say, "I know you missed it," and all that stuff, because I just really don't want conflict. Or I can get angry and shout at them. Or I can use nonviolent communication to say, "Hey, I just noticed you didn't pick up after your dog." No threat net, no accusation in it. There's no, you don't care about this place. It's really disrespectful. Who do you think you are? Because none of these things work. They don't change. No one goes, "Oh my god, you're right, stranger." Like, how about a person like, "Tell me how to be a better one." That doesn't work. Notice that. It just makes me feel a bit angry, because I think it's really beautiful around here. And I'm not saying that you did it intentionally, but it'll be really great if it was picked up. And they can go get stuff to whatever. But what I'm trying to do is connect with them and say that. And then, it's a request. It's not a demand. It's really important that I frame it like that. I don't put any tension in it. I don't say if you don't do it. I'm going to do this. I'm going to tell someone. I'm going to tell you much of a piece of crap you are. And then if they do it, I just go made that. That's awesome. Thank you for doing that specific thing. I mean, if you're really good, because I think this is a really beautiful place. I like this. Yeah, it's cool, isn't it? So that process is one that is trying to empower. Because what really matters through childhood development is that kids don't get taught. A couple of those steps, do they? They don't get taught to be objective observers of what's happening. So say the girls have a fight. You don't want to go as she was really mean and she stole her out of your hands. You go, you were holding the ball and she took it. That's it. There's no accusation in it. There's no picking aside. There's no who's at fault, whatever. That probably felt really crummy because you probably won't finish with it yet. Once again, it's nothing you do with the other kid. And I know it's really important for you that you go to play with the toys until you finish with them. Wouldn't it be really cool if you sister gave it back to you? Handed it back to you gently because I know and I know you do this because I know that in a couple of minutes you were finished and then you can hand it to her and she'll get to have that enjoyment. She hands it back, plays with a couple of minutes back. What I really liked was that you handed it back to your sister. She played with a couple of minutes and then she gave it to you and you thanked her. It made me feel really good because I know as a family we really love each other and I want us to always feel like that and keep working on treating each other better. What if they don't? It's a request it's not a demand. Okay. And then what if they don't? If they get it's worse and they stop doing it and they fight more and they snatch off each other more. What do you do then? Confiscate the ball. No. No. Well, I don't know. What do you do? I'm serious. Well, I'm like, I'm like, alright guys, you can't get along. Yeah, the stretch is too much. There'll be a reason. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry. Sorry. No. Wow. I know you wouldn't do that. You wouldn't be like all the balls gone. No, it doesn't work because then they're still there. Then they're just fighting each other. Yeah, exactly. So I'd go in and play with them more and guard them more. Catch them earlier. And you'd increase the support and drop the demand. Yeah. And then you would stretch them to resolve conflict slightly more independently and greater levels of difficulty and make sure they keep succeeding at it. Mm-hmm. You had a really good question at the start that I didn't address. When they're disregulated, this doesn't work. Okay. Yep. You have to regulate them first. Yep. And then you help them learn. So we started talking about these kids do not learn when they're growing up. Oh. How to be objective observers. How to actually talk about their feelings without blaming someone else. Without saying, I'm angry because you're a jerk. That's not true. I'm angry because you don't care about me. I don't know the reason you've done that thing. I can't guess. I can't read your mind. All I can talk about is my feelings. And then try and learn what is the need. It's underneath it. Hopefully I'll step through that well. Yes. That's just one. There's other models we can use. No, I love it. I think Marshall's nonviolent communication. One is a good one to help us think about how do we actually get down in our own relationships in those like what our kids are observing between our partners. Also how we're supporting our kids when they're up with other kids and also how we're dealing with conflict. And I had this, I came back from very quickly before we go to the scene. I came back from the gym the other morning. Constantly feel like I'm neglecting the kids to go to the gym. And I get much time. And when I go, I walk back in. And if you're sitting there, she wasn't awake on her left. Live at like 630 and she gets up and she's awake. She's just waking up when I walk in the door. She sees me and I was like, hey, gorgeous. It's so exciting to see how you're going. She's like, get away from me. First thing she says to me, you know, I'm just like, watch it. Well, for me, it's like reinforcing the reason she probably did it, which we'll step it through. The reason she probably did it is because I'm not around much. And I'm like, I'm constantly like, you're probably like this a bit too. I'm constantly just separating from them, you know, to run the dog, to go to the gym, to go to work, to do the podcast, to do all these things. Like, I don't have a lot of time where they're just like, let's go do this. And I'm like, sweet. I'm always tight pockets of pressure. And so she was probably like, oh, now you're available, eh? She wants autonomy. She's feeling a bit annoyed. All of that stuff. Now I could have been like, that's a really rude EV. That really hurt my feelings. That's so mean to be like that to me. Had it even worse, punished her. What's the worst punishment I could have done to her then? Taking her love away. Bang. So I don't do that. I try really hard to never do that. I never would draw my love for my kids, all the people I care about. I've done that in the past. I've done that with friendships where I feel insecure. And I go screaming. So I didn't do that. I just said, I walked in the door, really excited to see you, and said, hi, and you said get away. Makes me feel sad. Because I have this need of the time that I have with you. I want it just to be fun, enjoy, and celebrate you, and if you don't know how much I love you. Would it be okay if I sit down next to you, and you and I read this book together, and enjoy it? Now, two scenarios, let's play both of them. No, get away from me. It's okay, and then give you some space. Listening to you. Not threatening her, not hostility, not showing her a pissed off my arm. She's allowed as a three-year-old to be annoyed that I'm just rolling in and out all the time with pressure. Yep. I'm not making a little brash or something like that by doing that. I'm understanding where she's at developmentally. The other thing is, she sits down, she goes, yeah, okay. Reluctantly, sit down, make the book fun. The end of the book, four minutes later. I asked if I could sit down and read the book with you. And you feel awesome when you said, yes. Because I love seeing and spending time with you. And it helps me feel how much I love you. Okay, I have a lot of opportunities to do this, man. But yeah, it's good, but I don't know what you think about it. No, I love the model. I love the model. I'm going to run, I'm going to get that, I can get it. I get it. Like the observation, how it makes feel. The need. The ask. And then repeating it all back. I get it. Yeah. I'm just going to like get a bunch of different scenarios like 5 or 10 and just like map them. And just so I know. Yeah. And just think about how much of my forcing kids to do this. And how much of my building that into the world, which is one of the worst things about our lives. And thinking about actually, you don't need to go to school. I want you to want to go to school. I think I said this on the part, I remember who was like, oh, schools is one of those things, you have to do it. Yeah, but I've said that. I mean, I don't settle at the time, but like I'm like. Yeah, so I think it's okay when you like occasionally, like you got to get in the car. Yeah. You got to do this, but being like you have to go to school, or you have to say sorry, we haven't spoken about that. You do not have to say sorry. You do not have to say thank you. Like Evie came in today and I gave her an opportunity to say thank you for the presence. I do not force her to you. And I told her why because it was going to make you. Yeah. And I cute her for it this morning because I was like, because it will help Uncle Nick feel really good. I see what you're done there. Because you're not really worried about it. To go, I know what you can say, but say it. Compliance. Yeah, teaching compliance. Yeah, what are you worried about it? I'm worried about it too. I'm worried about it. Yeah. Because I don't, I want a really, like everything. I want to respect for a well-managed child, I want them to just say yes. Yeah. How do you teach a kid respect? I feel like this is a trick question. You give it to them first. Like, that's what I was going to say. Yeah, I was. Yeah, totally. I believe. But I'm like, yeah. I know. It's the only way. I know because we talked about the only way. I want my kid to respect me. So you feel it first, don't you? Yeah, totally. And then you teach them how to do that. Just the same as you ride a bike. You teach them how to read. All those things. You don't give them the lecture. Or put pressure on them when they stuff it up. Or just tell them. It's like swimming, isn't it? You don't go, well, you swing your arms like this. And you kick your legs really hard. And you just go sort it out. And they get in the pool. And they're like, why are you not doing it? Yeah. But you get in there with them. Don't you like it fun? No. Graduated in heaps of support. Little demand. Move those levers. You know, it's really important. But no compliance. It's like one of the biggest failings of what our society does. The sense that takes away your ability to express your feelings and your needs. And says you'll do this because you have to. Yeah. And it's awful. Don't worry about that. And it just reinforces authority structures. Yeah. Tell people what they need and what they feel, what they deserve. And the only people that know that are the individuals themselves. Yeah. And we should listen more. We haven't been talking about active listening, but I'll bank it. Okay. So we're probably too far in. Let's go. So it's the same. It's the same. You mentioned. What do you want? The famously. Yeah. What do you want? Yeah. And I'm going to so think about what we've spoken about when you listen to the same. But for those people who haven't seen it, I haven't seen it in a long time. This is, she's been gone for a long time. They're separated because they're falling out. They're a classic teenage breakup. If you drive away forever, forever. Yeah. Ultimatums like all the best stuff we've done. They're gone back to this. Why don't we just break up now? Yeah. You know, if it's going to happen. So all ultimatum stuff, all the bad stuff we do in relationships, including with our kids. If you do this, this is going to happen. Consequences, punishments, all that stuff. They've done this all to each other the whole time. They're justifying how normal conflict is because we're so passionate and all this stuff. And they've been gone away for a long time from each other. They've reconnected up to years. She's repartnered. Yeah. With the guy who plays Cyclops at X-Men, I can't remember. So good looking. Yeah. And he's a good guy. He's a good guy. He didn't deserve the cards he got dealt. He didn't have anything wrong. Yeah, totally. Totally. I just love him hitting on her in the full body cast. It's a bold play. But anyway, I'm just not sure if there's any medical injury that puts you in a full body cast. So I had enough to criticize it. It's through class, already. That'll break in every body. Anyway, so they've reconnected and they've hooked up. And she's come back and he's trying to figure out where they land. And this is a woman who has a girl was like my parents have told me this is the school that I'm going to go to. My parents have told me not to be in a relationship with you. They've told me this is the type of person I'll be with. Classic compliance stuff that you're talking about. And let's play the same. Do it. What are you going to do now? I don't know. We're back to that. Are we back there? What about the past couple of days? They happened, you know? I know that they happened and they were wonderful, but they were also very irresponsible. I have a fiance waiting for me at a hotel who's going to be crushed. So you make it up to me and then you go back to your husband? Is that your plan? Is that a test that I don't pass? I need a promise to a man. He gave me a ring and I gave him my word. And your word is shot to hell now, don't you think? I don't know. I'll find out when I talk to him. This is not about keeping your promise and it's not about following your heart. It's about security. What is that supposed to mean? Money! What are you talking about? He's got a lot of money. Now I hate you. You suck faster. If you leave here, I hate you. What are you looking at? I can't imagine anything that's been happening. I guess not. I think I must have misread all of those signals. I guess you did. You're bored. You're bored. You know what you wouldn't be here if there wasn't something missing. Aaron, son of a bitch. Would you just stay with me? Stay with you. What for? Look at us. We're already fighting. Well, that's what we do. We fight. You tell me when I'm being an arrogant son of a bitch. And I tell you when you're being a pain in the ass. What you are? 99% of the time. I'm not afraid to hurt your feelings. They have like a two-second rebound rate and you're back doing the next pain in the ass thing. So what? So it's not going to be easy. It's going to be really hard. And we're going to have to work it this every day. But I want to do that because I want you. I want all of you forever. You and me, every day. Will you do something for me? Please, you just picture your life for me. 30 years from now, 40 years from now. What does it look like? If it's with that guy, go. Go. I lost you once. I think I could do it again. I thought it's what you really wanted. But don't you take the easy way out. What easy way? There is no easy way. No matter what I do, somebody gets hurt. Would you stop thinking about what everyone wants? Stop thinking about what I want. What he wants, what your parents want. What do you want? What do you want? It's not that simple. What? Do you want? God damn it. What do you want? I have to go. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think about so she has internal conflict. Yeah. And she doesn't go through a much of a process of figuring it out. Why not? Why didn't either of them go through a process? It didn't allow each other much space. Yeah, why we more likely to fall into these traps with people we're close to. Back to that one about fear. Love being the drawing. Yeah, yeah, definitely. But what else? Yes. But we also were more vulnerable for our emotional brain to just overwhelm us. Yes. And to lose like a clearer process. They're also like, yeah, so what are her, well, he's a bit easier. What are his, what do you think of his feelings? I think he's angry because she feels like he's been led on. Yeah, he feels like he's been led on for a couple of days. Like he thinks it's all going to be a hunky-dory. And then she's like, I don't know about this. I don't know what I'm going to do. And so he's like, I mean, I'll lose it again for a second time. He says he'll probably get over it. So let's imagine any kind of happens. He's the reason to start this conflict. He says, what are you going to do? So he obviously, let's very tightly say what he does. He goes, really angry. You're treating me like crap. You're leading me on. You know, this is normal to fight like this. If you leave, I'm giving up on you forever, ultimatums, all that stuff. What could you have done? Give it to me. Could have said, go through it. Allie. Sorry. Oh, you're coming any. So Allie, I actually thought after the last couple of days that this was going to be forever. And that objective observation. We came back and it's been amazing. Yeah. But it now feels like that's not going to happen. And it's got me worried. And I'm scared. Because in my mind, I want you today and every other day. And I feel like I'm about to lose you permanently. Beautiful. That's my second time. Amazing, no requests, no accusations. No demands, no accusations, no blame. Great. What's the request? Allie. I want you to picture. Give a source in Gosling's. Allie. Allie. I would like it if you hung around for the next 30 or 40 years until we are living by the, not specifically too broad. Okay. Prefer it. If you said to me that. No, I was a realistic. Think about an at-all. Like this. Think about this. I want you to. What's a realistic thing? How can you give a spate a safe request? I'd like you to. I mean, just gone stuffy. I don't want to see you ever again. Well, it's gone through. This is how you've made me feel. You haven't said any accusations. This is why. Because I'm scared. I'm going to lose you. You know, let's just think about relevant to a team. It's like I'm out of here. Yeah. I'd like it if you stay with me for another week. I don't know. What do you say? So what I think is a good one is like. I can see this must be really hard. This must be really hard for you. This must be really hard for you and you must feel really stuck. I would really appreciate it. If you just gave yourself the space and time to think about this and decide what you want, and I'll support whatever you do, but I obviously have a preference. Mm-hmm. Calmly. Not ultimatums. Not you were on my life. If you do this, I'll never recover. Again. If we punishments, I'm going to withdraw my love. Yeah. I'm so sick of you. Don't let me get stuffed. I'll go to bed when I tell you to. Any of that stuff. Yeah. And then after it, you know, she takes a breather. Yeah. And goes, Ryan. I mean, I would say. Fantastic. Glad you made that choice. I'm really excited about the next 30 or 40 years. And it is going to make me feel like I'm not going to lose you any time soon. And that makes me feel great. And I feel pumped for the next 30 or 40 years. Beautiful. Amazing. Or you just, you came back. You know, I just want you to. I'd really appreciate it if you worked on thinking about what your own needs are and communicating with me clearly. So I can support them. It's like a gentle version of less catastrophic, less like fork in the road. And that's another one with teens. And primary school edge kids as well. Like I just want to understand how to support you better. So we're going to work on me supporting you expressing what your feelings are and how I can help you. Love it. You are going to get some questions. Yeah. Challenge. We want tricky ones. Be good. I always flexions. Like I think a lot of us grow up with different stuff to this. A lot of us have been in unhealthy relationships. A lot of us have feel like we screwed this up, you know, catastrophically with the kids that we support in our lives. Where the young kids are teenagers. We think that it's unrepairable. You're good at this. I've seen you do this. I think we have. I think you've like respect. Like you've used this with me before when we've had a conflict which is good. I'm recognising it in a good way. In a good way. I think it's really good. Like I'm like, ah, I can say how you've done this because you've really good at discussing things. Like we sometimes. Yeah, but I also know where my traps are. I'm very motive. I'm very like righteous. Yeah. I'm very I know best. And I think you do it from the back of. As much as you do it for me. You like it. Yeah, I can't do this in a really rational way. You do it in a good way. In a good way. Totally. But you need to think about that. But how we do it internally is exactly the same process. What has objectively happened? Yes. How am I internally feeling about this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is leading to a conflict. What is the need? Totally, sorry. And what I was going to say was, this is clearly something. Because I'm finding it. I get it. But I'm finding it complex and a bit. thingy to step through. But you actually do this all the time. See, if you do it enough, you can get used to doing this. Is my point. Well, yeah, I do it professionally as well. Because I wanted the greatest privileges of my life. Professionally is that I see families that have had negative experiences with the service, with other services. And we might talk about that next time. And you might kick it off with that? Yeah. I build a partnership. This is good. Yeah. I show them that they're in equal. You're good at it. I show them it's a privilege to meet them. Yeah. I show them that their feelings are valid. I try and explore what their needs are. Yeah. I try and guide them towards things that they could do that would be helpful and benefit them. And mate, I'm very good at doing it. Not maybe not very good. I put effort into doing it with you. Yeah. My kids and Annalise. Because you're probably the foremost important people in my life. Everyone else. I appreciate it. This is how they're going to respect me. I fail at it the whole time. Hey, this is how you got me to put in chicken on my pizza. I was playing after that. It took a long time. The way you're a Alina Lisa's family were here. They got the barbecue chicken for me. And guess what I'm going to eat first? It's not always the first. But Ron makes fun of me. I can feel like three sessions when we first got together. Like, can we get chicken pizza? I was like, no, we can't. Yeah. And then eventually I got it and yes. So yes, you did a good job. Nick, I've asked every time the barbecue chicken pizza. It makes me feel like it makes you feel angry. Because my need is a recognition of how barbecue chicken is actually. Sweet barbecue sauce with pineapple and chicken. I would really appreciate it from the future. You either don't eat any of it, but if you don't, it's complimentary. Or now we order to them. You order to them. Yeah. I mean, wants to sit with these pizza bombs. So often the corner. Just give them a moment. Beautiful. Hopefully a helpful one. Yep. We'll see how much we get coming in. We forgot that we always forget. Thank you, Patreon. Thank you for everyone on Patreon. We recommend that every time. Sure. Thank you for people over on Patreon. It's amazing to have that support from everyone. You're helping us be sustainable. Awesome. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. And send your questions through to pop culture parenting at Gmail. And make sure you stay tuned for the polls and answer the questions as well. And we'll be forward to it. Thanks. Hey. 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