Episode 1038: The Global War on God — Dr. Hak Ja Han and the Fight for Religious Liberty

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts. I, um, I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Somethings you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question to embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Your symptoms and get virtual care 24/7. Health care just got less painful. This is Matt Rodgers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try a new food and suddenly it's like, okay, hold on. I got a new favorite food. That's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try cupimeo. Yeah, it's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it at the grocery store. And this mayo is different. Most mayonnaise uses whole eggs. Cupid only uses egg yolks, which gives it this rich umami flavor. It's smoother, deeper, almost buttery. Once people try it, they start putting it on everything. Egg sandwiches, fries, burgers, chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really care about flavor use it. Put it on just about anything. Then you'll understand. Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Why are you dealing with listening to Armstrong and getting on demand? We're not boring, lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong, he's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world. How about something about a comedic tone? What? We have a winner? Yes. Listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand on the iHeart radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Newt World podcast on the iHeart podcast network. My next guest is here to speak for a woman who right now cannot speak for herself. Dr. Huck Jahan is the 83 year old co-founder of the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification, widely known as the Unification Church and is known to followers around the world as the mother of peace. For nearly a year now, she's been held in a South Korean detention cell, a great grandmother, invisibly frail health, coping with failing eyesight, mobility limitations, and a serious heart condition who has undergone shoulder surgery this year while still in custody. Now as she awaits a verdict that could send her prison for 13 years, her family and her church, are asking the world to see what they see, an elderly woman of faith caught in the middle of South Korea's biggest political scandal in the generation. This isn't a story I'm coming to secondhand. I was there in April 2025 for the opening of the new sanctuary at the heart of this case. And that July, I sat down with my next guest and said plainly that I believe there's a global war in God being waged in plain sight. Dr. Damien Dunkley, president of Family Federation USA, joins me today to speak on Dr. Hans' behalf, to help us understand who she is, what she and her family have endured, and what's at stake when the court rules in just a few days. That's next. We're not boring, lot of news is boring, and tedious, and depressing, and makes you angry, you don't want to live your life like that. What you do want to be informed? Can you be informed without being all of those other things? We think so, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, the Armstrong and Getty Show. If you shoot at us and we deflect it, it doesn't really count. And that just doesn't make any sense, you gotta make a rule, don't shoot at the United States. Or if you prefer, Iran, blah, blah, blah. America haters are winning, the would-be communist, the Marxists are winning in America, and they're doing so openly and nobody cares. I think giving the downtrodden money enables them. They aren't getting the money, I'm winning. Good Lord, that was the voice of the Patriarchy right there folks. Listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am really pleased to welcome my guest, Dr. Damien Dunkley. Damien Dunkley joined the Unification Church in New York in 1996. Since 2017, he has served as Chief Marketing Officer and Executive Producer of the Peace Starts with Me campaign, working with the American Clergy Leadership Conference to fill stadiums across the country. In October 2020, he was appointed Regional President of the Church's Asia Pacific One Region, 20 nations, home to roughly 3.7 billion people. And in March 2024, he returned to the United States to serve as Chairman and President of Family Federation USA, a role he continues to hold today. He's joining me today primarily to talk about the woman at the center of his faith, and right now at the center of a South Korean courtroom. Dr. Huck Chahun, she and her late husband, the Reverend Sun Myeong-moon, founded the Unification Church, and together led it as the movement's true parents until his death in 2012. Since then, she has led the Church along. Special prosecutors in Seoul have accused her of bribery, violating the Political Funds Act, embezzlement, and ordering the destruction of evidence, and have asked the court to send her to 13 years in prison. She has remained in detention since her arrest, and has not spoken publicly since the trial began. So Dr. Dunkley is here to speak on her behalf. He and a growing number of religious freedom advocates worldwide have publicly called the case "religious persecution." Dr. Dunkley, welcome and thank you for joining me on this world. I know Dr. Han can't speak for herself right now, so I appreciate you being here to speak on her behalf. Let's start at the beginning because I suspect most of our listeners have never heard her name before this case made headlines. Dr. Huk-ja-han was born in 1943, and Andrew, and in what is now North Korea. Her family's own account is that she, her mother, and her grandmother were held by North Korean Communist authorities before the family fled south when she was six. What do you know about that early life, and how does the Church talk about those years? Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, for having me and taking the time to invite me and be able to speak to what I can. As to the story of Dr. Han's youth, it's remarkable. Frankly, I would love to sit alongside her and ask her tons of questions about it. What we understand being born just at the end of World War II, and with only a handful of years in an impoverished nation before itself descends into civil war between the North and the South. And the story that we know is that she, at six years old, together with her mother and grandmother, three generations of ardent Christian believers. They were forced to go to the South because of an uncle that was associated with the South Korean army. Actually, the mother and grandmother did not want to leave the North because they believed that great things would be happening in Pyongyang, the Jerusalem of the East as it was sometimes considered. But they were forced to save each of their lives. So yes, the journey walking, I think, over 200 kilometers by night through muddy fields because the Northern armies had destroyed the roads. There was no paved roads to walk on, knocking on doors, asking for a bowl of barley when they could. And they were actually captured, Mr. Speaker, they were captured on the border and sent to a prison where they would later be sent back home. Dr. Han or mother, as we sometimes refer to her, holy mother Han, Dr. Han. At six years old, she was going over to the guard at the door, offering whatever food they had or whatever rations they were given, making a relationship with the guard at the door who actually let them free, just these three ladies. And as they left that place, they came across a gentleman who snuck them over the border at night. Now, if it were me, I would be as quiet, like quieter than a mouse, but apparently the story is that as they cross the border, keep in mind that both sides are instructed to shoot to kill if they see anybody passing either side. And she's whistling a tune or singing a tune of freedom from the South as she's crossing. And I would think that that would cause a stir. It's going to attract attention. But in fact, the testimony of a South Korean soldier is that it was that song. being sung from a six year old little girl's voice that convinced the South Korean soldier that maybe they're good people and I will just check before I shoot. And so he lowered his rifle and ended up handing over all of the money that he had in his pocket to help these three ladies on their way to the South. This is just one of many remarkable stories of a young woman who from the youngest account of her memory had a relationship with God, had a relationship with God as if God is my parent and I am God's daughter. And I'm not only going to dream of a peaceful world, surely I'm going to do everything I can to live it and to build it and to support it. And so from the youngest age, you hear these types of stories. So that's why she's alive today because they got through by the skin of their teeth. She really, in her own right, was a deeply committed Christian and had enormous courage already at six years of age. And I think that's important because I think sometimes we in the West tend to see her in the context of her husband, who of course was a remarkable charismatic leader in his own right. But as you're describing it, she was really parallel to him, not subordinate to him. And what you've just said is perhaps more acceptable in the West than in the East in several cultures and she's as a worldwide religious figure as a woman as a peace leader that may be one of the misconceptions that she's had to carry. And other burden she's had to carry, but absolutely you nailed it. This is a woman who from her earliest years, you know, there are some who ask her, how is it that you know so much? How is it that you know so much? This is not a person who went to seminary. Of course, she was well versed in the Bible growing up Christian and with an ardent Christian mother, ardent Christian grandmother. And these were women, by the way, who were fighting for the independence of their nation at the time and believing that a spiritual work was going to happen in Korea. And they were preparing for this. So she was raised in the spirit and truth of the Christian faith. But sometimes people will ask her, how is it that your depth of knowledge and your articulation is so deep and accurate? And she said, well, for me, discovering God, knowing truth was as natural as it would be for a baby to find its mother's breast. And to those who might question why I didn't study at length in schools, in seminaries, I giggle after they leave the room because it's actually something I'm truly proud of that I didn't need to go to school to find God, that I didn't need to go to school to build a deep relationship in sense of life purpose, directly with God. So those are some of the things I see her. I think we ought to put in context for our listeners who may not fully realize that Korea had a terrible cycle with the Japanese taking over, running it very ruthlessly as a colony, deeply exploiting the Korean people. And then when Japan was defeated in 1945, really almost by accident of diplomacy, Korea was divided into with a South that was generally pro-American and pro-Western, and under the leadership of Tsingmunri was seeking to become a much more modern Western society. And in North, which had a ruthless Soviet dictatorship imposed, this entire process even before the Korean War and that brief period, 1945 to 1950, you had people who were constantly being persecuted in the North, you had a relentless anti-Christian anti-religious view in the North. And out of it, you have people emerging who, like Dr. Han and her husband, the Reverend Sun Young-moon, who are literally heroic figures, because in every way their life was at risk every single day if they were in contact with the North Korean Communist. I mean, it was a really frightening time, and then of course, from June 1950 to the summer of 1953, you have a full-blown, all-out war on the Korean Peninsula. So this is the context in which she is growing up and the context in which her future husband, who became the Reverend Sun Young-moon, is growing up. And it's in the context of all that violence and all that difficulty, that they both find God, cling to God, risk everything for God in a way that is truly historic, almost like a Greek epic. Yes, well put, the context remarkable. Some have questioned to them both, how is it that you could think from such a young age that you had some mission to bring about a world of peace? The answer was, something like, when you grow up under such circumstances, is it really so strange to dream of a peaceful world? And when you've grown up in life and death circumstances, you've already signed a contract. You've already made a commitment, and like you say, heroic figures. In my view, there are many great people around the world and through human history, but Korea, I would say, should be proud of these two people, perhaps more than any other, for what they've for lived for, what they've built. Despite being misunderstood, they come from such an obvious dysfunction of society and break down with war. And to this day, mother is dreaming of a world of peace, praying for a world of peace, not for her own, but for all. And willing to do anything to see it happen, yes. Our husband, himself, spent two years and eight months in an North Korean prison camp. He was in prison eight different times in his life, including tragically and ironically in the United States. And when Senator Orrin Hatches, Senator Judiciary Subcommittee looked at the case, which had led him, he ended up spending, I think, something like 13 months in a U.S. federal prison before his 1985 release. And when Orrin Hatches committee reviewed it, they said it was clear that this was an injustice, that it was wrong. So here you have a couple who have been persecuted by North Korea. He has been persecuted wrongfully by the United States. And yet, their mutual commitment to defeat communism and bring peace and freedom to the world, apparently never wavered, no matter what was happening. Correct. I mean, unbound investment. This is why they founded so many organizations to seek to actually many times to educate. You'll remember far better than me in America. It took education before there was any awareness of the threat, right, of communism. So a lot of the work they've done is to educate, to make people aware of the threat, but also to work together across the aisle, work together across religious beliefs, across national boundaries, to work together towards peace. Why did you listen to Armstrong and getting on demand? We're not boring. Lot of news is boring. And tedious. And depressing. And makes you angry. What you do want to be in a form? We think so. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, the Armstrong and Getty show. You shoot at us and we deflect it. It doesn't really count. And that just doesn't make any sense. You got to make a rule. Don't shoot at the United States. Or if you prefer Iran. Blah blah blah. America haters are winning. The would be communist. The Marxists are winning in America. And they're doing so openly and nobody cares. They aren't getting the money. I'm winning. Good Lord. That was the voice of the Patriarchy right there, folks. Listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand on the I Heart Radio at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. most magic that in 1982, Reverend Moon and Dr. Han founded the Washington Times, which became such an important conservative voice in Washington in contrast to the Washington Post that President Reagan apparently read it every single day because he found it to be so much more accurate than the Washington Post. They were in the process of trying to educate the American leadership and the American people. At the same time, however, this is part of what makes the two of them, I think, so remarkable. Dr. Han and Reverend Moon meet with Gorbachev in 1990 and try to talk with him about moving the Soviet Union, and of course it disappears a year later. In 1991, they met with Kim Il Sung, who had been the dictator of North Korea, harshly, deeply communist, deeply anti-Christian. The very fact that he would meet with them was, I think, astonishing. And I think it was one of the very small breaks in trying to help North Korea migrate away from the dead end they have found themselves in. I'm curious from your own experience in talking with them and knowing them, Dr. Dunkley, what was the gap they were trying to fill in the media landscape when they launched the Washington Times? Well, I think they came to America because they understood that America is a world leader. America is a nation blessed by God. And you can appreciate that they may perceive young Americans of the day, perhaps taking for granted the freedoms that we have. And when they came, they said, we didn't come to America because we love America, although they truly love America. We came to America because of Jesus. We came to America because of Christianity. We came to America because we believe America is not just a lucky nation. It is a blessed nation and has divine providence. And that we shouldn't merely be grateful for our freedoms here, but we should reflect that gratitude and how we stand for the freedom of others. It's as if to say America's greatest export may be the belief that freedom comes from God, not from government. But this freedom that we have wasn't just given to us so that we could be free and that we could enjoy those freedoms. I personally believe that this freedom was given to us so that we may help free humanity. And that makes me proud to be an American proud to be born in this nation. But several of us may still take that for granted. When they came to the United States, they were rallying righteous people to know how lucky we are, to know how blessed we are, and to steer our minds towards what they believe to be our original purpose. And I think the Washington Times was a vehicle. Of course, paper media at the time was a strong influence. And no matter what it took, no matter how many donations of the members, no matter how many businesses they had to erect in order to support that education. They saw the Washington Times as a means not only to educate America, but to stimulate America to lead the world. And I believe they went to the ends of the earth to do that. And I'm really grateful that several key leaders understood that at the time that it was able to have some influence. Well, I think there's no question that the Washington Times still has a surprising level of influence, particularly among conservatives. But the very fact that in 1990, they meet with Gorbachev. They call for the end of communism. And within a year, it disappears. Now, I don't know those direct relationship there, but I thought their willingness to meet them in Canada, his willingness to meet with them created a unique historic moment. I mean the guts, right? The guts, first of all, to believe that it's possible. And you'll understand, you'll appreciate, we had back then missionaries from America, missionaries from Asia, missionaries from Europe going behind the Iron Curtain many, many, many years earlier, risking their lives, some lost their lives to create foundations and footholds to create relationships. You also had the worldwide movement being led by this couple in prayer, in focus, in mission. And so all of the prayer support, the financial support and focus, but the belief, I'd say the power of God, the Holy Spirit, the power of God to be able to back those who have great belief, great vision and willingness to risk their lives. Remember, they'd already risk their lives many times before. So yes, to be able to meet with Gorbachev and I hear by every account, it was a wonderful meeting, but to stand in front of these leaders and Kim Il Sung the same, to stand in front of this man who they knew was responsible for killing members of their family, members of their village, along with several million others, were standing in front, embracing and smiling and eating food together, breaking bread together and having the audacity to look that man in the eye and say, you know that your nation has no future without God. But the thinking was, look, let's try to solve this not with military power or diplomatic power. Let's solve this with a fundamental appreciation that God exists and if God exists, then not only do you need to invite God into your country, but I'll help you, we'll back you, we'll protect you. Reverend Moon believed that the way to deal with tyrants was to encourage them to let them know, don't worry, if we can get through this together, we will let you also be a winner of peace. So why was he investing so much in Alaska, hunting and fishing? Why was he investing so much in South America? So much land was purchased that some neighboring nations were concerned that he might be trying to build his own nation with their land. But actually, the inspiration behind all of this was, in fact, Newt, it was just a few months ago that mother reminded me of this. Dr. Han was telling me, again, this story, we wanted to invite Kim Il-san or his son or his grandson to Alaska to go fishing together, to see the beauty of God's nature together, to walk and talk and discuss together and then to bring to South America and look at the land, we will use this land to feed your people. Let us feed your people the word of God, the freedom to believe and we'll bring food. Our founders told members decades ago, be ready for the day that I will ask you to buy a four by four and fill it with bags of rice. If the border may open, we will be the first to drive up to the north to feed them. Many misunderstand what kind of a church we are because for most of us, we believe the label of church members is too small, we're far more interested in doing whatever we can to contribute to a world of peace, the same dream that they've had since childhood than simply growing a denomination or a church. So that's the power of God, the power of prayer and the power of belief, not only from them, but all those around the world who they awakened. So they could stand in front of these, you might say, tyrants or former tyrants and have the confidence to say, not only are you wrong about God, God exists. But number two, I'll be there to back you up and support you so that you don't end up in prison, but that you too can end up a winner for peace. Can you be informed without being all of those other things we think so Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty the Armstrong and Getty Show we try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world if you shoot at us and we deflected it doesn't really count and that just make any sense. Don't shoot at the United States or if you prefer Iran blah blah blah. The Marxists are winning in America and they're doing so openly and nobody cares. I'm winning. Good Lord. That was the voice of the Patriarchy right there folks. I remember being with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on the 10th anniversary of Reverend Moon passing away and it was quite remarkable because the North Korean dictatorship sent a huge world tribute so big it took two people to carry it on stage and it said quote Reverend Moon worked for the sake of world peace. His achievements and legacy will be remembered for he owns and I thought it was quite remarkable that here is this. Anti-Christian totally communist North Korean dictatorship reaching out to honor Reverend Moon and to honor him. For seeking to work for peace and was a remarkable moment which I will never forget. There was a friendship built there rumor has it new that Kim Il Sung told his descendants the only family you can trust in the South is the moon family. And we've seen every year gifts being given whether on anniversaries or birthdays or. On the first anniversary he sent two dogs I am sorry I forget the name these are the most famous dogs beautiful dogs a boy in a girl puppies as a gift I think to signify respect and also new life and encouragement. And I understood from the testimony note that the embrace was real it was real because they went there by the way they spent I believe two or three weeks in Hawaii in prayer before going to North Korea which was by no means easy to get to North Korea but they spent two or three weeks in prayer. And mother's testimony is that we wanted to make sure that there was not even one spec. Dust size spec of resentment left in our hearts they were aware that as global peace leaders they may cross that border with all of the gumption but they had to make sure that there wouldn't be even one spec of resentment in their hearts such that there would be no condition to stray them of course to embrace this man who had the power to execute them on site. And nobody would know and it turns out that in fact he had taken time before they arrived Kimmelsung had taken time to restore Father Moon's home in his hometown village they restored his home which had been dilapidated they had restored the tombs of his father and mother as ancestors as a sign of respect. And when they finally met they spoke of things as simple as the hard days when we were under colonization do you remember the hard days up here in the North in the cold winter when we had no food and we had to dig with our hands for wild potatoes to eat raw or eat bark from the tree these were stories that they shared this was a history that they share. And so it was a very common base bond of brothers that I think when way beyond politics way beyond power and when straight to family and I believe that had something to do their willingness to go their commitment to bring no resentment to the table to speak of God but also just to be human. Totally remarkable and I hope that bond remains until today I wonder what today Kim Jong Un as he looks down towards the south with mother detained imprisoned hospitalized mistreated I wonder what he's thinking but those testimonies inspire me. To look beyond what the military can do what even excellent diplomacy can do but the common bond of the brother relationship the brother sister relationship of humanity I believe is the strongestable one of the aspects of. She had 14 children she has about 40 grandchildren and all this time she's leading a global movement while also serving as the head of the family I mean she must have just an enormous level of energy. I've seen mother Han sit through hours and hours and hours of reports from around the world only to break to make sure everyone's coffee is topped up only to break for a restroom break and. The retention of detail also remarkable she can refer to a conversation or report from weeks or months or years gone by. And as a world spiritual leader the other thing that's remarkable about her stamina I mean I need more than three hours sleep myself but to get by with only three hours of sleep and. She's always embracing always poised and if you sit in a meeting with her ask her where's this coffee from where's this tea from where these chocolates from where these rice dishes from whatever's on the table she'll be able to tell you exactly where it's from and why because she chose it she goes to great detail to create environment. To embrace as if embracing children and very patient and very free giving. And on very little sleep. And there was one testimony I heard if I can share it once from a member of staff. That is responsible to kind of go in the morning and check on her themes and help make her bed for her. This member of staff once testified that every morning when I go into greet mother. And help her make her bed her pillow is wet. Her pillow is wet. And so what she's doing by day to put on a smile to embrace to lead to encourage to give. And I have to tell you she hears reports of all sizes of all magnitude but this is a woman who is often most moved by the simple anecdote from a child in a far off country who has had an experience with God. She'll spend hours listening to small testimonies as much as large reports. She's looking for where God is touching the earth God is touching humanity. And at night you think even during those three hours of sleep it turns out that she may in fact be spending those remaining hours what crying tears of prayer for humanity. This is a woman I know a woman who when she looks up to the night sky I've seen it when she looks up to the night sky looks up to the moon looks up to the stars. And this may in fact be her most enchanting quality not that of a world religious figure or spiritual leader or as we call her a true mother. But as a child you know looking up to the night sky just longing to bring joy to heaven longing to bring joy to God to liberate God that's what she said. Long to liberate Jesus liberate God bring an end to suffering bring an end to war bring an end to when human beings walking around with lonely hearts wondering who they are wondering why we're here wondering what our purpose may be. She's literally dreaming of a time when all of us are joyfully relating with God as our parent and with one another as brothers and sisters, enough with the war, enough with the conflict, enough with the confusion. And so I find that to be her most enchanting quality. - Well, of course, she turned it into a practical quality by in 1992, founding the Women's Federation for World Peace and the World Christian Leadership Conference. She spoke at the UN, the US Capitol, the Great Hall of People in China, the Korea's National Assemblyman, on the role of women in peace building. In that sense, she's been a remarkable leader at trying to turn a dream into a practical reality. In 2005, she and Reverend Moonco founded the Universal Peace Federation, which now has a foundation in 170 countries. It's really quite remarkable how she's worked to turn her dream into practical reality. Remarkable and risky, right? You mentioned speaking, the founding of the Women's Federation for World Peace and endless world tours. She shared memories of those tours, traveling, going from hotel to hotel. Her husband, all the while, listening live, watching live where satellite was possible, calling her after every speech to debrief and to pray together. But she was warned on many occasions for some of those examples you mentioned, speaking in China. She was warned very clearly, not only by the hosts, but by her own leaders. Please do not speak about God. Let's just make a friendship first. Please do not talk about freedom. Please do not speak of these things. It will get us in trouble. It's dangerous for you. No, she shares those stories today, especially within the context of everything going on. I'm not afraid to speak about God. I'm afraid not to speak about God. I'm not afraid to stand up for freedom. I was born into a time and into a place where that was our family brand, that was our national brand, that was our mission. I'm afraid to not stand up for God. I'm afraid to not stand up for freedom. So she went about her way and spoke the words she intended to speak, regardless of the audience. Both of them are remarkably alike in that way. Why did you listen to Armstrongy getting on to men? We're not boring. Lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. Or if you prefer, it runs blah, blah, blah. The would-be communists, the Marxists, are winning in America. I'm winning. Good Lord, that was the voice of the Patriarchy right there, folks. Listen to Armstrongy Getty, I'm demand on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING] Now you find yourselves where we are today, which is here's a woman who spent 65 years building a movement for peace. And yet she ends up as a criminal defendant. And the whole thing is, I have to say, as an outsider, I do not understand how Korea could end up with an 83-year-old religious leader in the middle of a South Korean constitutional crisis. Can you walk us through how did we get to this terrible point? I still struggle to understand. May 12, 2025, I received a phone call that mother has been placed on a travel ban. And I was absolutely shocked. This is the day my world completely changed. And there was initial attempts to work with the prosecutor's office to remove the travel ban. But they refused to do so. At the time, they were just calling her a witness. But here in America, we were immediately concerned of worst case scenarios. How is it possible that we went from a witness to a travel ban, to suspect, to endless hours of interrogation, to detention in a cell the size of a mini-cooper, to indictment, to prolonged detainment, without proof of anything, and ultimately hospitalized, where she now is recovering, and yet still under trial, where days away now from the final ruling, I cannot understand how it is that prosecutors have asked the court to keep an 83-year-old world religious figure, a great grandmother who can barely see struggles to walk, who only is working for peace. How is it that prosecutors even asked her to be detained in the first place? What are they afraid she's going to do? And now they have asked for 13 years. Essentially, they want to keep an 83-year-old female religious figure in jail until she's 96. I still, you're asking me a question, no, I cannot answer. I have no idea how this is possible. And I wonder what career stands to gain, what the world stands to gain, to keep her in jail, to accuse her of these things, which she has on every occasion absolutely denied, the allegations, the accusations, it's guilt by association. Now, we're not asking anybody to ignore the law, but at the very least, we've been asking for a humane treatment of an 83-year-old lady, a world religious figure, trusted and respected around the world, trusted and respected even by the North. So we can respect the court, but that doesn't deny us the right to ask if the treatment is humane. And at what point does justice become inhumane? She's currently legally blind, legally blind. And she suffers from atrial fibrillation. And last May, she had to go to surgery because she heard her shoulder after a fall. I mean, you have a 83-year-old who is a grandmother to 40 plus. And she's being treated as though she's a hardened criminal. I do not understand what's happening to the South Korean system that it could do something like this to somebody whose background has been so consistently pro-peace and pro-religious liberty and candidly pro-Christian. I mean, this is so different. I would have said to you three years ago that it was inconceivable that you would have this happen to an 83-year-old woman, and yet we're living through it. How do you explain that? I was on the way to the airport. I happened to be traveling to Korea mid-July from the United States. And I was on my way to the airport when my phone blew up with texts and images of reports, of a raid on the campus, which is essentially our main spiritual retreat in Gapyeong, South Korea. It is also where Dr. Han resides. This is a place that we come together to pray, to worship, to celebrate. And I'm boarding the flight to Korea. And my phone is blowing up with messages about a raid that has just taken place in this place of peace. And I saw a photograph of bus after bus. I heard reports of 30 police buses packed with troops. I mean, these are right-gear police. Some argue the number, I heard it was 1,000 police investigators, prosecutors, lawyers. And this was a simultaneous raid, not only on every office in that complex, but other Christian organizations in South Korea at the same time, a morning raid. And the first word I heard when I landed from many others was this has never happened before. Special prosecutors are allowed to do what they want. And in Korea, the police work for the special prosecutors. It's not a partnership. It is a temporary army of sorts that can do the work of the prosecutors. But I asked, is this normal? Is this a normal number of police investigating on a raid? No. It's not normal, apparently. Is it normal that they trample onto sacred spaces into sanctuaries? I had heard from several Koreans. It had never happened in Korean history under Korean leadership. Maybe under colonial leadership? I was totally blown away. I arrived literally the next day. And what startled me the most knew was nobody knew how to feel about this. They were still in a state of shock. And they didn't even know how am I supposed to feel. Mother herself-- I don't know if I'm supposed to say this-- but mother herself, reflecting on it just a couple of days later, said to a few of us in a private meeting. She said, why didn't they just ask? Why is it that they saw it necessary to come into my room and throw everything on the floor? And she felt deeply hurt, not personally. She took it as an offense to God. It's like, why didn't they just ask me? I would have sat down and talked with them if they wanted to ask me some questions. Why are they treating me this way? And note, you were there in the building. They call it the Chon-Won-Gun. This is an international temple of prayer, if you will. It was just a few weeks before you arrived in Korea to celebrate that opening. That mother personally took just a handful of leaders myself among them on a tour of this building. This entire building was off about even the most ardent members were not allowed to enter this sanctuary before the grand opening. You understand the kind of prayer and the sanctity, the sacredness that was being applied to this place. And she invited a few of us on a tour herself. She led the way. And she had her team take the protective plastic off of the photographs, off of the furniture, off the floor, off the walls, just prior to us getting a tour of this place. Because she wanted us to see it first. We're not supposed to be there, but she wanted us to see it. And she sat us down, and she sat me right next to her. And she said, all of this, I made for you. She's speaking to the whole room, but she's not speaking to us. She's speaking to history. I made all of this for you, for all religious figures, for all people of faith, for all humanity, and for God to have a home, for heavenly parent to have a home, where everyone is invited to pray. And all she was asking that we might either take our shoes off before we go into the inner sanctum, or at least put on a couple of those shoe socks that you put on even to go into the hospital, even to go give birth to your baby. They asked you to put socks on your shoes. All that she was asking that we might preserve this sanctuary so that hundreds of years, thousands of years from now, it might be seen to be in as a pristine condition as it is now. And it was only a few weeks after the opening that you were there that the boots came trampling in. That these boots came trampling into places of worship and prayer where we were called to take our shoes off. Out of respect for God, yes, but actually, out of respect for humanity, for the thousands and the millions that would descend upon this place to see it and pray there and see it in its most pristine beauty. I remember vividly visiting there. Let me just say two other quick things is we will run out of time and this is an important, extraordinarily important, it's important to remember the Charlie Kirk's last great effort before he was killed, involved religious persecution in Korea. And he was very directly concerned about Dr. Han and about what he saw as an increasingly anti-religious and pro-communist government in South Korea. And I think it's also important for people to realize that this is part of a worldwide effort to destroy religious liberty, to destroy Christianity and that the persecution of Dr. Han is as relevant to every American or every Nigerian or every West German that you name the group. She is a symbol of belief, a symbol of a lifetime of commitment and her persecution is symbolically the persecution of religious liberty and everybody on the planet who cares about religious liberty should care about Dr. Han and should care about what the South Korean government is doing in basically forming an anti-religious dictatorship. And I know that you, Dr. Dunkley, have played a major role in this, continue to, and I know that the Washington Times will continue to cover this. And I also know that people can listen to the piece starts with me podcast, and they can learn more about the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification USA at familyfed.org and we'll have a link to that in our page. But I want to thank you given everything you've been through and everything she's been through. I'm very grateful personally that you would take this time to talk with us about such an important topic. No, you are too kind because really the thanks goes to you. It was just after the story of the raid I shared with you that mother turned to me and said it's time that you go to America and go and meet with Speaker Gingrich. And I remember sitting down with you and sharing with you a five, 10 minute report and you listened with your eyes closed and when you opened your eyes, the first words I remember were, there is a global war on God. And Mother Han is finding herself in the middle of it. I'm so grateful to Charlie Kirk and others. It's like when you, if you allow your neighbor to be raided because well, they're different, maybe they deserve it. Who's going to be there to protect you when they knock on your door? And honestly, you're thanking me. But the truth is we thank you. You've been supporting, you've been writing on this. You are far more aware of the threats than I have been. For me, this last year and a half note have been probably the most difficult of my life. I have had to be very careful not because I don't have things to say, but because I don't want the people I love to have to bear the consequences of the things I might say. But others such as yourself and what Charlie Kirk was spearheading, Rob McCoy and others, we need to thank you. And if anything, tip our head with a humble heart and to ask what more can we do, not only for Mother Han or our church in Korea or our church in Japan, but I feel like you're calling us into a broader fight that we also need to show up for others and understand what's going on. And if I may just comment, it was just a few days ago, I was in Washington, DC, in a meeting with Christian ministers. And I was sitting next to an Archbishop Kawas from Nigeria. It was an all-day event. And we were praying and singing and worshiping together. But by the afternoon, he told us that while we were eating lunch, he received a call from Nigeria that several of his colleagues, his close friends, Christian ministers, bishops, had been slain, annihilated, assassinated. When we heard this, we ended the day putting our prayer hands on him. He was reduced on his hands and knees in tears for his people. And the whole room came to pray over him, to pray for Nigeria, to pray for his people. And I remember in that minute, you know, thinking, my God, what is going on around the world? And I remember in my own heart, praying that the family members of those killed, that the members of those churches, that the brothers and sisters and communities impacted by that behavior, that they don't succumb to anger and resentment, that somehow they can find it just like father and mother were praying in Hawaii before they met Kimmelsung, that we be careful not to carry resentment in our fight for peace, because I think that God is calling us, especially those of faith or leaders in faith. Yes, we might have to speak straight, but sometimes it's dangerous to speak straight for your own people, but we can stand up for those neighbors beside us. And if there's anything more we can do with family fed or the peace starts with me or anything our friends can do around the world, we truly ask your guidance and support. Don't be shy to ask for what we can do, because this is far bigger than what we find ourselves in the middle of. Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me on this podcast. And thank you for being such a respected world leader, for peace, for God, for freedom. And I have a lot to learn. So please count me among your many students, and I look forward to doing what I can. Thank you, Newt. Thank you to my guest, Dr. Damian Dunquay. Newt's world is produced by Game of Thrones 60 and I Heart Media, our executive producers Garanzi Sloan, our researcher, his Rachel Peterson, special thanks to the team at Game of Thrones 60. If you want to join Newt's World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both radius with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. To me on sub-stack at Game of Thrones 60.net, I'm Newt Gengrich, this is Newt's World. Why are you dealing with listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. And tedious. And depressing. And makes you angry. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty. Oh, something about a comedic tone. We have a winner? Yes. Guaranteed Human.