Episode 10: Doing It Scared: Anna Haldane on Brunette Hair, Eco Heads, and Building a Community”

In this episode of the dressing gown CEO, I sit down with the wonderful Anna Haundang. She's a master colourist behind the Chair One Shot finalist and the new educational technical manager for Ego Hetz, as well as a founder for our official community for FOILME. Anna's journey is anything but ordinary, from building a name in the American market to pioneering colour techniques for Asian and Bruno hair to navigate in big, personal and professional shifts with honesty, grit and humour. We chat about her rise in the industry, the art and science of colouring Bruno hair, while water might be the hidden villain behind so many hair struggles and what it means to create community in an industry that often feels divided. And of course, true to the dressing gown CEO style, there are plenty of laughs, candid confessions and a few quirky detours when you won't want to miss. So this is a conversation about courage, reinvention and doing it scared and it's one you'll want to hear. It's real, it's wrong, it's the dressing gown CEO. Welcome to the dressing gown CEO, I am your host Emily Chaudiello and this is the wonderful Anna Haldey. Welcome Anna, thank you Emily, nice to be here. I'm sorry, I lost my voice today. Just like a little mouse. Like a teenage boy, sorry about that. That wasn't rehearsed, that's okay. We don't rehearse anything here. Anna wears many, many hats. She is a master colorist and behind the chair one shop finalist. She's an expert in working with Asian course Brunette Hair and she's recently stepped into a major international role with eco heads, which is Anna, your role. I am the new educational and technical manager for eco heads and POD by eco heads. She's a master of music. That's amazing Anna, we'll talk about that more obviously. And while she's doing all of this, she's a mum of two, two beautiful boys, what ages and names Anna? My youngest one is Finley and his eight and my oldest one is Edwin and his ten, he'll be eleven this year. Wow, I don't know how you do it. I'm telling all of that. It's a hard yacca. It sure is. So you're also the founder of our official FOILME community. Thank you Anna. Thank you. Which also involves a little bit of work behind the scenes as well. Yeah, but so grateful to have you on board. And we'll talk a little bit more about that as well. So Anna's journey hasn't been without challenges. She's navigating some big personal shifts alongside professional wings and you're doing it with a mix of grit, honesty and humour. Always humour with Anna. Always. If you check out her Instagram, she has some really funny Instagram rules. I apologise in advance if you haven't turned her that yet. I think it's not into your best taste, but you. Well, if you don't laugh then you don't have a sense of humour. That's right, honestly. That's right. So we're going to chat about everything from the art of colouring Brunae here to building community in the hairdressing world, to the lessons you've learned in business, motherhood and life. And of course, I've lined up a few quirky questions along the way. Of course. Well, you know. It is the dressing gowns. So that's why we're here. So what's your listening is on? As we would say to our kids. Yes. And let's get into it. Yeah. So before we dive into the hair talk, let's get into your actual job title. So it is international? Yes. Yes. Yes, I will be looking after international. It is. Oh, amazing. That's crazy. Yeah. So tell me what is that actually involved day to day? Oh, day to day. I don't even know. Yeah, it's not. I do. I'm just in my first week. Yeah. So the next step for ECO had some POD, especially by ECO had is to launch in Europe and internationally. So it is currently a major, as you can imagine. I mean, you've launched overseas yourself endeavor to get everything prepared and get all the technical managers, manuals, rights and all the advertising and marketing and sales strategies put into place. And it is currently a lot of phone meetings and a lot of discussions and a lot of going through documents and rewriting things and planning and then it will be some traveling and actually onboarding these countries in person, hopefully. And yeah. There's a lot. Well, before we get into too many questions about that, I'm just going to check that we are actually. Yeah. Looks good. We did so many different things beforehand. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Good. Oh, the little spider. Oh, bless. Let's save him. Yes. We don't care. We're going to find out sessions with spider. We have to talk because we rescued a spider. Yes, we say we are good people. We say her or him or him or they. Many. Many of them. Just. Any pinch me moments so far. Many. Oh, so many. So many. So many. Honestly, I think that. Oh, there's been so many goodness me. Where do I start? I mean, from being first of all signed with Masters of Baleash in 2020, I think it was. Yeah, it was with them for three years. That was a huge pinch me moment for me. I think it was a huge pinch of spider. quite guess. But I put them through a lot. I bet, but you get that winning shot. So you do some. So you're a master of Asian course, Brunette Hair. How did that come about? Yeah, that's a funny story because I'm obviously a little Swedish girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah, who got trained in European and well technically Caucasian hair. And it was the way that I started my career, I actually started by being a cutter and educating and cutting. Okay. And I hated doing color because I'm like it's messy. It goes everywhere and I just don't trust it. I'm predictable. Unpredictable. So it was probably not until about 2008, 2009, that I started to, that was about 12 years into my career, that I started to focus on color. And then I found blondes to be extremely, I just, I felt bored. I felt extremely bored with what I was doing. I have mastered this. Yeah, now what's next. And it was also at a certain point I feel as, when, because cutting used to be the it thing in the industry. It used to be the cool kids, you know, the Vidalas as soon as the educators who taught cutting were the, the cool, they were the celebrities of the industry. Color won't ask big back then. And then that sort of started to, to fizzle out a little bit and everything started taking a turn towards color more. And so I just like, oh, well, you know, I'm just going to, I was bored and I wanted to take a different approach and jumped into color. And how did you jump into color? Oh, just, I mean, I was trained in color. But I started taking more color clients and started doing more foils and blonde work, which I found extremely boring. And sorry to bother. Just, you know, it's breaking. Yes. But I just, I wanted a challenge for myself. Yeah. And then I realized that there was a massive, massive group of people in Australia, a demographic that I felt was overlooked. And it started with a few girls coming to me, a few Indian girls coming to me. Okay. Just from advertising and I sort of wanted to start doing a bit more lived in work. And they came in and I started hearing from every single one who had like a level five and below that we cannot find anyone in Australia who can do our hair the way that we want to. They were always disappointed with their outcomes. And I just saw an opportunity that this is what, what does that mean? They can't do our headway. We want it. What, how did they want their hair to look? So pretty much all of them come in with the same almost inspirational two inspirational pictures. One is a very caromily type of balliage you did. And the other one is a very ashy one, very high contrast. Right. Both of them are quite hard to master because since they are so dull, they have so many underlying harsh pigments that you need to either work with or work against. Okay. So. And you have to bring them down, right? Down. Yeah. And you also want the longevity, which they also felt like, you know, I have my head down and I feel lovely on the day. But then two or three weeks later, obviously because we have such harsh water in Australia too, that it just rinses everything out. They're like, I just look completely different and I hate it. And then they feel orange or they feel yellow. And I just saw an opportunity to, I'm like, I'm always up for a challenge. So I'm like, well, this is it. This is the challenge for me. And I started doing hair for free or doing their hair for free and then slowly sort of work. And so I was still doing hair cutting and I was doing my foiling and all of that. But I'm like, I just want as many asians, Indian, Middle Eastern women as possible to come in or anyone with the level five and below to just practice. Any was almost as though they knew that I was almost practicing too. And then eventually, I taught myself how to how to perfect it. And it is very different from coloring the average blonde. You cannot treat it the same. So I talked me through it. So a client comes in, she's a level five, which for us who aren't hairdressers, a level five is. So a level five, like your color hair or. So I'm a level five? Yeah. Spots on, well, I'm a colored level five. I'm naturally a level eight. But yes, I'm a level five, borderline level four. And so level one would be a black. Okay. Yeah. So most people I work with, the most women that I work with are a level two to three. Wow. For a very, very darker. And to get them up to say that level seven. Oh, you need them to. If they want to have an ashy tone in their hair, you need them to a level nine time. Yeah, nine or ten. Wow. And then you color it as well. Yeah. Or tone. You know the tone. Yeah. So then I double tone, I always pre-tone to neutralize first so that I have a clean canvas to work with. Because you're an expert in all the pH color theory as well, aren't you? For them. You don't hear people talk about double toning. No, not much. Yeah. The way that I explain it when I talk to people about pre-toning is that it's exactly like when you're painting a wall. You, yes, you need to prep first. Yeah. You need to prep that wall so that you have a clean base to which you can then go in with your final formula. Because if you're formulating to even on a level nine and ten, you still have yellow as an underlying pigments. Yeah. And to neutralize yellow, we need violet. Yeah. And if we want an ashy tone and people don't add the violet into it and they add blue, yellow and blue is going to cause green. And that's one of the main complaints that most people have, right? Yeah. That is like, oh, I left the salon and I felt cocky greenish, I felt overtoned. So by pre-toning, purgrain, purgrain. Right. Yeah. It's not attractive. Not really. Not many people come into the salon and say, I want black, I want the purgrain today. Sorry. But so by pre-toning, we create a neutral canvas so that you can literally go in with whatever color, semi-demy toner that you want. And then you have free range to just formulate that. And then what you see on paper or on swatches is what's going to go on the hair. Instead of having to overthink that I need to, I need to include this underlying pigment or this counteracting pigment into my formula. And then I need to add these ones because most stylists, they want to work fast. Yeah. They don't want to work. They want it to just like one slam on one toner and then that's it. Yeah. Yeah. But by pre-toning and doing so quickly, it's you have a result. And that's what in our education event coming up a March 9th, that's what you're going to be talking about. Shameless plug. Shameless plug. Yeah. That's what we're going to be talking through. Yeah. And we will be talking about how to very, very easily and quickly pre-tall her in just a couple of minutes. Yeah. Great. Also plug. Well, let's get on to ECO head, shall we? What is ECO heads? So ECO heads started, I think it's about 10 years old, not 10 of 14th. Please don't call me on this. I'm going to get fired now. It's like I started being in a position one way. Yes. A week. Okay. It's not my job to know how long they've been in business. That's not in the quiz. It's a fairly new company. But they started with creating the shower heads that most salons now know and trust, which creates cleaner water for our basins. Because water in Australia is horrendous. Water around the world is horrendous. We have so many minerals, toxins, chemicals, that raises the pH of the water. Water is meant to be neutral. Yeah. Okay. So when we're talking about the pH scale, we have alkaline. We've got neutral and we have acidic. Hair sits naturally at a 4.5 to 5.5. That's where it lives. It's happiest life where the cuticle is closed. You have a nice, shiny, manageable hair. You look okay. You look okay, I'm fine. Like, yeah, hairs isn't shiny. We need to work on Emily's pH level. I did dry shampoo last night and I killed it. Yes. That's fine. It's not looking at best. That's okay. So I threw it up in a party. But anyway. So water is meant to sit on a neutral level 7. But it's not because we have so many cleansing products in the water and we got chlorine and we have all the pipes, like depending on the pipes that you have. Yeah. Well, we have filters throughout the whole house. Yeah. This is how it's becoming a thing now. Yeah. So it's all that's what you need. And I thought my hair would improve and I think it is improving in in its thickness. But yeah, an ability to like, would stand more. Absolutely. Not only do you neutralise the pH and you get soft water from the filters. Yeah. Because that's the terms that we use. We use soft water and hard water. Okay. So hard water is the unfiltered where everything is coming through and that's causing havoc for your hair and for your colour as well. So soft water doesn't only have a good effect on your hair itself, but also for your scalp. Because your scalp has a certain pH level, same as the hair. So if that is unbalanced too, then you go into experience, you know, you get dandruff, you get buildup, you can even experience hair loss from that. So honestly water is the answer. Like soft water is the answer to most of our hair issues in all honesty. And many, many, many people try putting things on their hair, but actually don't think about the fact that it's the water that is. That's just it. Because. And this is something that the industry is not talking about enough and that is now going to be my job to bring to attention and to educate about. Because we always hear our clients complain about the hair feels dry, it feels brittle, it tangles. It's, you know, that shiny sort of almost gel like that we see on kids who swim a lot in the morning. Yeah. So we hear a lot of complaints and stylists always try to fix the problem with another product. But what we don't understand is that the water itself is the enemy. Because no matter which product that we put on our hair, when we rinse that product out, we rinse it out. It kind of negates it, doesn't it? Yeah. With alkaline water, which reswells the cuticle. Yeah, wow. So, and then we try leaving products and none of the leaving products are strong enough to actually close the cuticle all the way back down again. Yeah. So then eco heads saw obviously a problem. Yeah. And was able to solve that problem for salons. And we need to do a disclaimer as to why I'm drinking champagne as well. And so. On a bad influence. Anna is a bad influence, but we're drinking champagne because we are celebrating the fact that Anna has been named or not named. Anna now has a position with eco heads, yes. As the technical education manager. Yeah. Yay, I got it right. It's a big title. No idea what I'm doing. No idea. No idea. No, you do. I do. I do. Some of them. Wow. So, who's the owner of eco heads? So Benny Risher is the owner and CEO of eco heads. Okay. And he came across this problem about water quality. Yeah. That could be fixed. Yeah. How does it work then? Showerhead. So the showerhead itself is. It's got a multiple. Multiple levels of filtration. Okay. Don't ask me to name all of them. They filter well. So that's not my expertise. But it will be in a week if you give me some time. Yeah, yeah. I know about the showerhead. I'm still new. But yes. So they saw the problem and was able to solve it. So that's how everything started with eco heads. Started with water. Literally. So the way the tagline is transform water, transform here. Beautiful. And it's so beautiful and it's so simple and it's so true. Amazing. And it's great that you're being able to be in a position that you feel so passionate about. Oh, I love this one. I am obsessed with this brand. Literally. I'm obsessed with your brand too. I know, it's getting into jealousy. I'm like. You cheating on me? Which brings me to my next question. The Three Tools Forever Challenge. Oh, yeah. If you could only use three tools or products for the rest of your career, what would they be? And why? So I would have to say the showerhead by eco heads. Because water. I would also have to say. This is tough. You don't have to say foil as well, just because, you know. No, I. Here's the thing. I can't say foil, right? Because your brush, your barliage brush. Yeah, or brush. Yes. And your board. Really? Yeah. Because without that, I won't be able to get the blend that I need in my foils. Yeah, I love that. I mean, I would need a foil too, but I only have three. Yeah. Let's add four. I would need foil too. Love that. So if you were on a desert island now. So if you're stranded on a desert island and it has a fully equipped salon, who's the first. I mean, you know. This is, you know, this is dream, like. Who's the first celebrity you invite to come in for a colour service? And what would you do to their hair? You know, I read this question at 5 a.m. this morning at the airport. And I thought to myself, I'm like. And I had a laugh. Because I got a name in my head and I'm like. And I have to go with the name that popped into my head. I'm gonna have to say Donald Trump. Oh, no! Well, I was thinking. She's gonna say Donald Trump. I don't know who I am. And I don't know why either. But it was honestly the first person that came into my head. I'm like. I mean. We have to fix that man's hair. I mean, there's a lot of things we need to fix, but we need to fix that man's hair. He has the most famous hair style in the world. It's a very interesting hairstyle. What do you think he thinks? Is it a two-page? Is it his own hair? No, because I've seen him in images when the wind blows. And it sort of goes. Okay. So it's his hair is in a comb over. Yeah, or comb front over. I can't. Front over. But I would have to say Donald Trump. Yeah, well, we're gonna have to remove that the yellow and the orange and the. Let's give Donald Trump a proper haircut first and foremost. And then we'll give him like a nice, neutral. Maybe some highlights. Yeah. Maybe a pen. Maybe a pen. Ficking that up a bit. A pen would be better than what it is now. Oh, absolutely. I don't know. Anything that I would do would probably be better than what it is now. So yeah, let's change the world. The one stuff at a time starting with Donald Trump. And using salt water as well. What would happen with that? Oh, well. Oh, well. I can't completely understand. Yes. Yeah. All right, Anna. What's next for you? What's next for me? Obviously, what's next for me is in this new role of mine to. to grow in this role and to grow the brand. And to make every. My goal is for every single salon to have eco heads and POD by eco heads in the salon and making the industry understand the magic behind this brand. It is something that elevates every single color brand and every treatment brand that salon's use. It is an. It is an innovation completely on its own that stands outside the normal. What's the word? I can't think. Categories of what we normally use in the salon. It is in competition with nothing else. It elevates and it enhances everything that we use in the salon. That's my next goal. It's just a small one. Yeah, it's just a small one. And also obviously to launch internationally and to hopefully be able to communicate the message well to the world. Luka, yeah, that's. I sound so professional. I mean, you've got a lot of work ahead of you, but I don't doubt that you'll be able to enjoy it with your knowledge and your expertise in the hair industry but also in the way that you market yourself. You know what resonates with our hair stylists, with our hairdressers. So, you know, we're with you all the way and for me, you know, we're with you all the way. I know. Yeah. Yeah. And so as a co-founder of the official for-you-me community, which is on the platform circle, yes. Another show in this blog. Yeah. What's been a highlight for you or something endearing or something that's really stood out for you in being a part of that now? I found that it was amazing to see how fast it took off. Thank you. Yeah, honestly, because I thought that with social media being almost an old thing at this point, everyone is on social media. What was really, really nice to see was that people were looking for something like this. People were craving a different type of community. and jumps right onto it. - Yeah, we have like, I think it's over 120 members now. - I mean, it's just a few weeks in the making. How many weeks are we in? - I think it's coming up to four. - No, maybe three. - Maybe three. - Maybe three. - Yeah. - Well, we always had a FOILMIC community. We just didn't make it official. - Yeah. - And it was really important for me to thank and show our community that we see them. And it was, it's hard to do on social media, on Instagram in particular, because, you know, we'll get over, you know, a thousand hashtags. - That was going to sell, but a thousand to get for the events per week. - Yeah, but so we get about 400 a day. So actually it's more than a thousand. - I'm doing quit math there. - Yeah, it's like that. - It's about almost 3,000 now. - Yeah. - And we have like a whole team, including myself. Today is my day to do social media, actually, on FOILMIC. - Yes. - Where we've respond to every single one of them. - That's phenomenal. - Yeah. And that's just being what we've done from day one in 2014. One thing that I really love about how you guys actually respond to comments is that it's personalized. - Yeah. - You know, you see exactly who has commented back. There is a lovely comment and there's always the name who has commented with a little X or a heart, the pink heart. And it's so, it made a difference. When I saw that from the very beginning, when I started, you know, interacting with you guys and really getting to know you guys, it's beautiful. - Oh, thank you. - It's really beautiful. - Thanks, Anna. - Yeah. - It's really nice to hear that feedback because you don't always hear that feedback. So you don't know if the people know it. - The people know it. - Resonating. - Yes. - Having the effect that we want. - Oh, it definitely does. - Yeah. - It definitely feels seen that way. - Well, that's what we want. - Yeah. - And so by having this official community, we can also offer the perks involved as well. For the engagement that they've had with us on social media. But by having you involved and also the others, I want your perspective. I want it to be like your community, like you guys are the ones creating it. We're just kind of there to, I guess, bankroll. - That's interesting to me. Very good. - And that's like now. - I'm like, my money please. - That's like with our ad. - That's like with our education event as well. - Yeah. - And, you know, obviously, when I say bankroll, I mean pay my staff to do what we need to do. - But I can see the little thing flashing where are the batteries coming? - Mine is red and flashing. And by the way, too, this new job of mine and this new role was able to give me the stability that I needed in order to have a stable income. Because don't get me wrong. I mean, this is going to set this, yeah, I make a fair amount of money doing what I do. Like I'm not going to sugarcoat that. I make a lot of money doing what I do. - Good. And he's very embarrassed to talk about money as a hairdresser. - Yeah. - I want hairdresses to know that you can earn. - Absolutely. - Yeah, because I hate when people are like, oh, you should get a real job or like you should really get a real career. It's like, you do. Do you want to see my tax returns? - Sorry. How much do you earn? - Yeah. How much do you make again? - How much passion do you get from your job? - Google me. - Six months ago, I didn't think that would be sitting here today and talking about being a manager for the international brand. - It just goes to show that when you put in the work and you have that vision, I mean, and you manifest as well. - Manifest. - Yeah. - All about manifesting. - It is. - It is going to happen. - Good things. - Good things happen. - Good things. - So I'm speaking of good things. - You are a beautiful boy. - How is it going with your new job and being a mom? - Yeah. - Which is a job. - Which is a job. - Mm. - A job and a half to be honest. - Yeah. - Or more. - All the full time. - So now, yes. - No, yes. - This means talking so long just like, you know, the suffragette movement couldn't just sat down and hung down a little bit. - Jesus. - No, honestly, no, I thought I talked me that. But it's honestly, this new role of mine is going to make me a better mom. That's how I see it. - Oh. - My boys are used to me being away and working in the salon and then coming home and being rushed and you know, it's like, oh, we need to get here, we need to get there, we need to go to soccer practice, we need to make food, we need to work, all of that. I'm always very, very go, go, go, go, go. - Yeah. - When I come home from the salon. - Yeah. - This obviously allows me to work from home and remotely too. As long as I have a Wi-Fi connection and am available on the phone, I can do my job anyway. - I can see. - So for them, when I explained this to them, they were absolutely over the moon. - Maybe they didn't mean that they didn't see mom more. - Yeah. So I'm like, yes, for just as long as you're being quiet. - That means that I'm wrong. - One of my reasons. - Oh, so you do me off. - We'll see about that. - But the good thing about this company is that it's a small team. Everyone has got family and everyone's very understanding and accommodating and I can only see it being better for myself. - Yeah. I'm still going to be working one to two days in the salon for a week. - But only with my absolute most favorite clients. - Sorry, non-favorite clients. I'm going to regret saying that. - I'm going to get letters. - That's okay. I can cut that out if you want. - I'm not doing that. - Because I don't know if you're clients. - I'm not putting no way they will. - They will. - Yeah, and I'll still be working a little bit on the salon because I love it. And I think it's really important when you step into a role like the one that I've just stepped into that you keep going as a header as well. - Yeah. Just to get the feel of what's happening in the salon. What's happening with the trends on the floor. - Yeah, you've got to keep it foot in the drawer. It'll be, I think, like with my job. It would be very easy for me to just delegate, okay, delegate, yeah, okay. And not do anything, but that's why I do social media every now and then because I need to go in there and have a look around, see what's going on and talk to the our customers out there as well. - I think half of them don't even know who Emily is when I go Emily. They think you're an employee here. - Yeah, they're like, "What you fine?" - I don't care. - They're like, "She's the boss." - No, she goes, "Yes, the boss." - Which is a nice surprise for them when they do. - Yeah, of course. - Find that out as well. - Yeah, because I used to, for a while there, I had Emily and then I'd sign off with, you're thinking of a wanker already. I see you and I treat you to a writer. - Just so that people who I was in case they needed to reach out for anything different or in particular, right? And then I just thought, "Oh, I don't like that. I sound like a wanker." So I stopped doing it. - Yeah, good. - Yeah, that's not good. - I do understand the thought behind that. - Yeah. - But you can also be seeing us as like, "Oh, so, who is it?" - It's a bit full of that. - So she is the boss. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, well. It's been fun and I. - Is it has been fun? - Yeah. - And I hope that we're going to make a bloopers reel out of this. - Oh, always. There'll be all sorts of things. - So Anna, it has been amazing. - Thank you so much for flying all the way over to the beach. - So much for flying all the way from WA. - Of course. - This podcast in person. - Yes. - I really appreciate it, especially how busy you are. - It is a beautiful day out there in Adelaide, although it is 12 degrees. - It is cold here. - But it's sunny. - I walked out from the, oh, I don't know the airport. I'm like, "Holy!" And I'm like, "Oh, wireless. My jacket?" - Yes. - Yeah, fresh. - But I hope you get to enjoy some of the science soon. - Yeah. - In the city. - Oh, so fun. - But thank you very much for coming along. - It's been an inspiring and real conversation. - Yes. - Yes. - I love how you're bringing so much honesty to both your craft and your life. From mastering Bruno Hare to building community, to navigating the big transitions with courage. - Hmm. - So that's what you're doing. - Six months ago, you didn't think it'd be in this position where you were. - No, I did not. - And it has taken a lot of courage, a lot of. Fuck it, I'm just gonna do it. - There is a lot of that. - Which is courageous. - Yes. - It's not just sticking to that little circle or square that you're in and you're not gonna venture outside of it. - You have to do things. - It takes care of it. - Yeah. yeah and you have to do it scared because if you don't push yourself you're never gonna get anywhere oh it's that simple not that let's put that on the book that's going bumpers thicker that's going to be i'm gonna post on instagram not bumpers do care but you know like yeah okay with the dressing gowns here okay that will get those but it's a team you i'll have to take questions from each podcast and put it into one a little book yes anyway if you've enjoyed today's episode please take um well not if you definitely have um just take a moment to share it and leave us the review you can subscribe so you never miss a podcast episode for those of you who have been watching listening along to all the episodes thank you so much you do know that they vary a lot sometimes they're very work related and other times they're like with a communication expert and love that out long yeah sometimes it's heavy sometimes it's heavy like it was with Evan yeah Evan stars and sometimes it's a bit like but we will get heavy on with Anna and Julian in about six months time maybe yeah um so Anna can tell us a different side of things in her life but for now let's keep it work related yes and like that happen like a happy that conversation will be like and happy to know that it will be it will be lost yeah it'll be a freedom a freedom one yeah so well um i was going to say welcome i think the champagne has got to my head even though i've probably had a welcome welcome welcome if you've been here for a couple hours already um so thank you i'm really appreciate thank you very much your time thank you thank you thank you thank you beautiful and we're done we're done thank you for listening to the dressing gown CEO if you've enjoyed this episode please take a moment to share it leave us a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode and if you feel like it'd be a great guest whether you have a story that's rule and rule or you're an expert in a certain area and generous in sharing your knowledge i'd love to hear from you just shoot me an email and let's chat remember it's rule it's raw it's Thank you for your time. See you.