Episode 1: The Dads Take on Daniel Boone, Colonial America, and the State of Hucky-Tucky

moral of the story is you got to get rich and retire early and then buy Ferrari and and then do what you love and then do it you love it all makes it easier to do what you love when you have a Ferrari that's the moral of the story. Yeah there it is. Hey everybody thanks for listening to the our We Bad Dads podcast where three regular guys talk about their favorite popular history books. We are Aaron, author and father of four, Dave, high school US history teacher and father of four and Mateo graphic designer and father of two. We'll consider how we match up to some of the greatest men in history. We'll laugh at each other's expense and we'll try to answer that nagging question. Are We Bad Dads? In this episode the Dodge Discuss. Daniel Boone. Colonial America. I in this day a Hucky Duckie. In Matthew Pearls book the Tinkings of Gemma Maya Boone. Colonial settlers to tribal nations and they kidnapped that shaped America. The taking of Gemma Boone as Daniel Boone is a man with a certain set of skills and he's going to rescue his daughter from the Indian. I didn't think about that today. I think this was the original taken. We had a family conflict many years ago my wife's family and my father-in-law got us together to talk about the white elephant in the room. So I feel like the white elephant in the room with this book is how Daniel Boone and the settlers basically just like Rob the Indian's blind. It was interesting to me reading it to see that the Indians told him hey Kentucky's ours y'all need to like leave it alone and he was saying I don't think I will. I think I'm just going to move in. Yeah that was really interesting and then to be like I don't I can't remember from the book like from his writing but it almost it almost seemed like we're now protecting our home. Like now that we've got this set up right you better not attack us because we will defend our right to take your stuff. It's like if somebody moved into your backyard. Exactly. They wouldn't you were like you need to leave they were like I think I'm going to shoot you. You think hey, this is my yard. This is my yard. What are you doing in my yard? You can't do this. I put up signs. There's even a beware of dog. I don't even have a dog but it was interesting because there's this really weird dynamic of the settlers and the Indians but then you've got the British. Can you talk about Mateo like with the with the it's happening during the middle of the Revolutionary War or as it starts and so you have these people who are like friends and their enemies and then even with the Indian different Indian tribes. It wasn't monolithic. It wasn't like Indians over here and white settlers over here. It was all jumbled together and what did you guys think? Because I thought it was it was much more complicated than I probably realized. Yeah. I mean I feel like this is probably a silly observation. Again it speaks to how little I know but it was really shocking to me that like the Indians had guns and this is like I don't read I guess I've not read anything of this time period or like anything about settlers you know and just I think that's why I'm super stoked on this because like I've not read anything like in this but it was just I have this like real like interesting very child like painting of what the Indians were like back then and they had guns. It's like it's kind of like shocking to me. It was like weird like I don't know maybe that sounds so silly but I feel like surely there's other people who have that same picture in their mind like they weren't boasting air with people but beyond that I thought was really complex was like the the factions of Indians and the ones that wanted peace and trying to like empath as I tried to empathize with them it's really really hard kind of like what you're saying like this is how do you like what was coming to my mind was actually Churchill and like there's this story right where in the Danobin book that basically the Indians get routed and then afterwards I think it's I forget the Indian the name like mall little mall or maybe it was like a blackfish but one of them was like they they wanted peace right then they went to war they got routed and then when one did peace again afterwards and my mind was thinking like if I were a part of the warring faction of Indians I would be obviously like they don't have Churchill and thought in their mind but in Silmer thought like you can't negotiate now that you're losing like you have that you have to almost like and so I thought that was just so interesting that like the dynamics of of wanting peace going to war losing and now you have to like choose like do I just continue for peace do I continue for war without like just in terms of like war like that's a hard problem solve not even taking into account like there's a rightful claim to this land right like there's really a rightful claim to Kentucky and that's that right these settlers are just invaders I don't know and then on top of that it's like I've just I've I've not wrestled or come to terms with this idea of our history right where we are just truly invaders like moving into these different lands and just taking them like that I it's kind of mind boggling and I think you know being a Texas history growing up Texas history and then also being you know in American like I'm very like the who raw part of our our story is like very much like ingrained in me right and doctrinated in me and I can't help but to like if I'm honest I can't help but to love like Daniel Boone in his like how hard and tough he is and like this like they just like the picture of him like cutting through thicket and brush right to get into this unknown like I love that but just juxtaposed with like but you're stealing you're stealing land and you're like wiping out buffalo right like this like yeah yeah yeah let's let's come back to the buffalo for a minute in a minute but like yeah something that the story you know is daughter who's 13 a couple of her friends who are 15 they're kidnapped you know I mean the Indians have like taken off with them so like you go into the story anticipating he is Liam Neeson and you know I mean like that's where you're at and like but the setup and that and the background as you read it you're it is a little bit of a struggle this I did feeling completely sympathetic to Daniel Boone Dave did you have sympathy issues in this book I I did so like oh man where to start like you know he's like from his point of view and I thought that Matthew Pearl did a really good job of like there I felt like there were a lot of shifts in the book like from trying to tell it from different perspectives based on the information he was able to to gather but I I felt one thing he did do a good job of like it's like giving that person's point of view you know space to be space to be heard and so on one side you've got Daniel Boone's you know rugged mountain man like I'm going to you know goodbye family I'm going to go pull trees out by the roots and you know wrestle bison to the ground with my bare hands and right all with a coon skin cap and you know all that all that like you know that's very very appealing and adventure and like going into the unknown and all that and then your daughter gets kidnapped well what now and so you you kind of get his perspective and then he starts going into the background of well here's the perspective of these people who kidnapped her and here is kind of what they're dealing with and their outlook on on things and so like by all rights if the attitude was the same in these Native Americans as it was in Daniel Boone then I would expect like just a slaughter like that's how you get rid of these invaders you just annihilate them all right because that that seems to be as it's presented in the book that seems to be the perspective of the colonists that are making their way westward you know and and if they hear even a rumor or a whisper of you know one of their own getting killed then they're just up in arms and they're going to kill it doesn't matter who like this one person was responsible but he's part of this group and so we're just going to start annihilating the group until they learn not to mess with us right so but to not see that being reciprocated at least from the way Matthew Pearl tells it night we can get into we can get into how he's telling that story in a little bit but knowing a little bit about that kind of period in history and not just that but like manifest destiny in this you know god given right to go west - It might go to be Smith. - No, it wasn't. - It might go to the movie Smith. - No, it was. - Go West. - Go West, yeah, I mean, that was the call on his theme song. - Right. - I might go West, yeah, man. - Clearly, it wasn't in "Friends or Friends Forever." - It might be now, I don't know. So I'm already somewhat familiar with the Native American perspective on, you know, they, you know, Americans felt like they needed to take Christianity and civilization and progress and, you know, inhabit the continent. Oh, wait, you were here first. Well, it's still ours by Divine Right. So. - Flex to be you. - Yeah. So I thought he did a really good job of telling, of showing both sides, but even still, like, their moments where it's like, oh, like, from letters that were written, like, they wanted peace and, you know, at the same time, we're like, killing off women and children, not, and it went beyond revenge. Now it's just making a point. - Yeah. Well, and they, when they kidnap the girls, the one hanging Ma knows who she is, because they had all been part of this like, a peace treaty. - The treaty, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. So they had all of a sudden this treaty, and it was interesting, you know, they signed these treaties, and it's like everybody kind of agrees, but then they can't really agree on where the, like, well, where was that boundary at? And then there's all these disputes, and then the white people were like, how we were just kiddin' about that anyway. We weren't really gonna do that. - It's really complicated keeping up with all these boundaries and things. It's just, we just find it easier to take what we want. - I feel like, I think Pearl did a good job in that it, he lays it out, but I didn't feel like it was America's sucks, white people suck. It was just sort of like a factual like, they were living there, and then white people moved in, you know what I mean? And to an extent, I will say, there is so much brutality coming from the settlers. I feel like Daniel Boone wasn't like on the continuum of that. I feel like he was, on one hand, he was triggering a lot of this because, you know, I mean, the town was at Boone's town, Boone'sville. - Boone'sboro. - Boone'sboro. - Boone'sboro. - Boone'sboro. I mean, it's named after him, so clearly he's the instigator here. But when his interactions with the Indians, a lot of them were, I was almost like, he used the word good, but they weren't, he had plenty of time. You get the feeling that even when he, like was rescuing his daughter, it wasn't his intent to murder everybody responsible. He just wanted to get his daughter back. You know what I mean? So I feel like as the settlers go, he probably was like, on the, man, I had to use the word like Kynelearn Jemler, because he clearly wasn't. But like, there was worse than Daniel Boone, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Like, and even when, even when they, when he gets captured himself and becomes the substitute son, for the Indians, like he, I mean, it's, it's weird because it gets not a, it's a very not 20, 22 thing in the Indian idea of retribution was different. Which I think is really interesting. When you compare what the settlers idea of retribution was with the Indians idea of retribution was, the Indians were like, you killed my son. So now you've got to come be my son. Right. I mean, I mean, on one hand is kind of cool, and on the other hand, it's like, that's weird. It is. And I think that's what, of what I read, like I was not familiar with that practice. Yeah. And I don't, and this is kind of where, like Matthew Pearl, I don't, I don't know how, the way he's telling it, because it, like on one hand, it does. It sounds like it's very, almost, almost noble. Like I could kill you. As you know, you took my son. So now I will kill you. But no, I will instead. Make you a part of my family. I will take you into my care, into my inner circle. I will teach you my ways. And you will become the son that you took from me. Like there's, it's, it is really weird, but there's something that echoes of something noble in that. But then I, I don't, so there's that aspect of retribution. I don't, so there's that aspect of it. But I also don't know, like when it involved women, did it, what, what was it less noble and more, like a, you will forcibly, yeah. You know, carry my children now. Right. Right. Does that make sense? But the, but the practice itself was still really foreign to me. I had, I was not familiar with that at all. The story of the one guy that, when they captured him, they basically played dumb so that he could escape later. That was the funniest thing. I, like, they captured this guy. So Daniel Boone's like, hey, pretend to be stupid. And so he does. And then later on when he escapes, the Indians are concerned about him. I go, the poor guy is going to die trying to escape because he's so stupid. Like, I was like, that was like, that was like the best con of like the entire probably century right there. So, but, you brought up the Buffalo. Let's talk about the Buffalo. How amazing was it to you to see the settlers not killing to eat, but just like for the heck of it. Like it's, I mean, like, you're, there's a lot of that. And let me be clear that killing the Buffalo was not as bad as what was being done to the people. I mean, I, I think that's clear. So what was your thought, you know? Yeah, I mean, they went to like modern times and trying to like, I was just trying to find like, is there some tie, you know, to like modern like hunting and mentality on it. I feel like modern hunting, it's much more balanced, right, and much more like good for the earth kind of thinking. Yeah, the stories were just those mind blowing to me, like I just never heard that. Like literally, they're killing, I think one of the stories was like, you know, four to six years within a day, just because you could and like for skins. That's what it said. I was like, just for the skins, wasn't for the meat. Yeah, and I'm not a hunter. I think the only reason that stood out to my in my mind is because we just got where we were just at the Perot Museum this past weekend. And I got to see like a real bison. And it was just, yeah, kind of crazy to me. So yeah, I don't, I don't know. Sorry, it starts out with, it really gets to me, man. It's just you can choke down Mateo just like it tells the bison, man, they just do your job. Yeah, this is a safe place. Mateo, thank you guys. Just wanted to see a buffalo. Matthew Pearl painted a picture, right? Where you're cutting through the thicket. This is how I picture in my mind. Like you're cutting through the thicket. You're getting through the heart drain. And it opens up into this like beautiful, they were like comparing it to like Eden, right? Like this beautiful land in Kentucky where there's buffalo, like thousands of buffalo on hills. And what is what's like the comparison they were all making. And I loved it. And Matthew Pearl talked about like this like in their minds, like those just like since of grander with what they were doing, right? They were comparing themselves to like the garden of Eden. They're also comparing themselves like Boaz and like the thousand hills. And Columbus, like they're in Don Quixote. Like like wow, like they're, but then like literally within 20 years. Like it's ruined. And just be well-during to me on a safe. Yeah, it was it was interesting to see like I that I didn't know. Like I mean, I knew, I knew that all these herds obviously were thinned out. I never knew the extent to which they weren't being killed for a purpose. Maybe it didn't dawn on me. But the understanding of like the reason that the buffalo and bison are with thinned out so badly was they were just killed just for the heck of it. You know? So my granddad and I, bless this, always been dead for 13 years. You'd say, have this conversation about hunting because he and my dad will be hunters. And I just, I don't mind hunting. It just isn't mine. It's not how I want to spend my weekend generally. And he would tell me, boy, if you had to live back in those days, you wouldn't have been able to eat. If you had to kill your own food, I would say, you're right. And I don't have to. I'm not, you know, like I was taking it about it today. I'm like, okay, fine. If you drop me off in, in, in, you know, 1776, I'm going to struggle. But you know, what if you dropped off Daniel Boone in 2022, he's going to struggle too. So I don't know. I think you would be all right. Oh man, that's such a man. But that, but see, this is the thing is like I, he was, but I mean, he did what you had to do, he, what you had to to survive, right? Yeah. Like, so like he could build a log cabin. I can't build a log cabin, but I can build a computer and he couldn't build a computer. Like one of those is a marketable skill in 2022. If building log cabins was a, was a sustainable career, more of us might do it. I, all I was thinking about is like, I love Daniel Boone. I love how tough he is, but I am so soft. Like I want to like put myself in his place and I want to be him, but I am so soft and all I could think is like, I am softer than Jemima. Like I, she was talking about how she wouldn't cry when she was captured. Yeah. She had like a hurt foot. She was like, I'd rather died and walk. And there's no way, like I would say that I would be bawling my eyes out, losing my mind. You know, like she is harder than I am. I am so soft. Dave, what are the ages of your children, Dave? Mine are 973 and 1. So okay, maybe the older two, they're still significantly younger than Jemima. So if you have to do a bit of a future wish casting here, but were any of your children kidnapped at 13, would they have the presence of mind to try to leave a trail? And I think didn't she tie knots in her hat to symbolize the number of kidnappers and then drop the hat trying to tip them, which one, like on one hand, that's really smart. On the other hand, where I, the day, it would not have even occurred to me with that meant when I fell in the hat. But again, I think things were different in 1776. But, but Dave, would your kids have had the presence of mind? And if they didn't, is that just because we're bad dads? I'm going to go, like, I'm going to go with us not being, so I'm going to base this on the assumption that we're not bad dads. Okay. I mean, I, I'm not completely convinced, but I'll hear you out. Okay. Well, you have to think too, like first off, Daniel Boone's like this, like, supreme tracker, right? Like, that's how you make your way in the wilderness. And also out in, you know, in semi untouched Kentucky, there's probably a big chance of getting lost, like a lot, right? Getting turned around in the bush and whatnot. And so it would not surprise me at all if at one point, like part of your kids surviving out there, because, you know, child rearing looked really different as well, right? When you're on the frontier, that's why you have lots of kids. So you have plenty of spares. And so it wouldn't surprise me at all if like the idea of leaving a trail of whatever, like, you know, you leave it, like if you get lost, just start leaving a trail of things and daddy will find you. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, but I think that would be kind of equivalent to, okay, Caleb Joseph, this is my phone number. All right. This is your address. We don't tell that to strangers, right? But you find a police officer if you get lost, you find somebody with a badge and you tell them to call this number. And it will come, it will come to me. Like, I feel like that's like the 2022 equivalent of teaching your kid. Like, if you get lost, leave a trail of something, I will find it. And if I find it, I will come and find you. What's the 2022 equivalent of your kids on a canoe by themselves? That's where we started in this, right? Like, your kids, your kids on a canoe with two other kids who they know it's dangerous. And they're manipulating your kid to do this, by saying, they're daring each other. Are you scared of your dad? Yeah. No, I mean, I imagine there was a whole lot of, if those two girls would have walked off a cliff, would you have walked off a cliff too? But at 13, like in that time, I mean, she's practically like, she's bordering on marrying age. Like, get out of me. Like, what cracked me up about that was like, after he rescues her and then they go back and then later on, Daniel and these men get kidnapped. Like, he's gone for like a year. And like, wasn't even that unusual, he had disappeared for that long before. And his wife just packed up and went back and forth. Things were different. There wasn't a lot of marriage counseling back in the 18th century. They're too busy cranking out all these spirit children because they know it's going to happen. It's funny how you read this and you just realize, sometimes you're reading, you think, oh man, things are so the same. Like, I thought it was interesting just reading about how much like, conflict and and stuff there was, but just feels very similar to now where there's conflict about everything and everything for them felt conflict, very conflict. He probably isn't a word, but I'm just going to use it. But he used to word, hold on, there's a word he used in this book. I wrote it down, fluster rate. I don't think that's a word, but he used fluster rate. I was like, it's not flustered and it's not frustrated. I mean, I'm going to use it, but it doesn't seem like it's actually a word. But there's all this conflict, which feels like pretty much like right now a little bit. But then there are also these moments where you'd read it and you'd be like, this is a totally different world that I just don't understand. He's gone for a year and his wife said, well, you went somewhere you lose seven. Which reading about Daniel Boone, you're like, hey, maybe she took this as an opportunity. Yeah, you know, yeah, but it took that but it took that long for her to get to that point. Like, how many of us, if like we disappeared, like how long would it take for our wives to like start to be concerned? Bedtime. That's when it was starting even 24 hours. Yeah, right. I know. I mean, like as soon as it was time to put the kids in bed and I wasn't here, their cops would be called. Yeah, it would be told, it's bedtime. My husband's not here to help. Y'all better find him. But then, but then there's this conflict between Boone and who is the other guy? Oh, the Callaway. Callaway. Callaway. Callaway. There's like this conflict, like this struggle, like Boone's the big man, but he's kind of supposed to maybe be in charge, but he's not really calling the shots. Boone's calling the like, so that like that conflict and the politics behind it and like you're the leader that everybody wants to follow. I'm kind of the leader that's been put in place, but I don't really know what's going on or how to handle these situations. I was like, Oh, yeah, that sounds. That sounds familiar. That's that that. Look, there's a Boone's burrow is polarized. I felt like we couldn't write. What was the Callaway's wearing red and the Boone's wearing blue? Is that what was going on? Anyway, they do a mock West Side story dance fight in the middle of the floor. And you're like, what is happening right now? Yeah, every time. I'm trying not to go to political, but I just I'm just feeling Daniel Boone screaming fake news every five minutes. I can say would be Callaway screaming fake news. I feel like yeah, I feel like Callaway would be the fake news because Daniel Boone would be like, I don't need your help. I'm going to go rescue him on my own and Callaway would be like fake news, fake news. Anyway, I'll leave that trail. But the funny thing for me is reading a book about Kentucky and my youngest son calls it Hucky Tucky. That's how he calls it is Hucky Tucky. So the whole time reading this book, I just keep reading about Hucky Tucky. There are moments where it's like, oh, they're fighting over Hucky Tucky. So anyway, they're they're fighting over Hucky Tucky. She was the name of this podcast. They're they're fighting over Hucky Tucky. I like it. I mean, it probably makes sense. So Indian names, we talked about hanging off. We referred to Blackfish corn stock. Like I feel like I feel like as Indian names go. And I realize they're all like some sort of like a translation or something. But like, what did like they're like, I just call him corn stock. I mean, you know what I mean? Like Blackfish is kind of like it's not intimidating, but it's at least like, oh, Blackfish. Like what, you know, and hanging mall, it's okay. Okay. But then there's like corn stock. I think my favorite one was dragging canoe. Yeah, I loved I loved the story behind that. Yeah. He was really young and he was going to carry a canoe all by himself, but he couldn't. He had to drag it. And so it's like this name that befits this guy who like takes on more than he can handle, but he's just so stubborn. He's just going to do it however he can. I just felt like that was such a like a fantastic name and story. I feel like I could I have at least one child that we could be calling. Oh, there goes little I do it myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't there one? What was the one that killed him? Danoboon's son? Was it? I feel like it was big Joe. Like, is my right in remembering that? I'm trying to I don't remember how to look this up. That's a good question. So yeah, the sun got killed. I remember that part. But didn't they have a friend that was hiding in a tree and died in a tree? Did I read that? Yes. I was like, talk about I mean, I almost brother just the brutal like chop my head off then to die in a tree. Like hiding in a tree could also how about Jemima checking the Indians head for lice like hanging all the guy that captured her? Like she's helping him look for lice in his hair. Like, I so weird. Well, he talked about I guess like she's trying to like build a poor and like keep herself alive, I guess. Yeah. Which makes sense. But it's just like, you know, that's like what is this like? I'm just so soft. Like she's looking for like I'm crying in the fetal position. Like what a ghost. - I mean, like, hey, I need somebody to check my head for a lie. You know what? Why don't you just kill me? - Let's just go ahead and call it like this man. - What was the name of this? That was at James. - James. - I think it was James, yeah. - Mm-hmm. - I'll find it in the next episode. Follow up. - Yes. - Yeah. - What we do with a dandelion, take two. Here's a good one. Boon generally sought peaceful coexistence with Indians. He buddy relentlessly pushed into other people's territories, prompting conflict, thus his preoccupation with Kentucky. - Yeah. - Like, he's like, he generally is trying to be peaceful, but I'm also gonna take you back yard. I'll bring you cookies when you move into the neighborhood, but also I'm moving my fence so that it's gonna take over your yard. So that's kind of, that's kind of Daniel Boon for me. I haven't completely formulated my opinion on this yet. When I think about historical figures, because there's people that are interesting, and there's people that are likeable. And I think those people aren't always the same people. Like, I think for me, even though some of these people, all these people are flawed, okay? But like Churchill, to me, Churchill is likeable and interesting. Heady Roosevelt is likeable and interesting. Douglas MacArthur is interesting, but not really likeable. And I think Andrew Jackson is neither of the above, I just don't like him and I'm not interested. Where does Daniel Boon write for you guys on the likeable? And this is not a fully formed scale. So as we go along, we may actually come up with more, like data points here, but what do you guys think? - You go ahead and then tell. - I mean, I love him. And he's interesting. Yeah, again, like I just, there's something to his, potentially mythology, but just like this, like, in Spanish, there's a word for it's called machismo. Like it's almost like a negative term in Spanish. Like, but I just loved his machismo. Like that's just, he's just a man. And yeah, he's very much on the likeable and interesting to me. - Yeah. I have to agree, because it was interesting. You asked that question, because I was reading the book, trying to think of like, you know, he's saying these things, but he's doing these things. Like he wants peace with Native Americans, but he's taking their land. So like, if I were in Boon's book, like, how would I be responding to Daniel Boon? And I think there's just something about his charisma that's just, and I think even Matthew probably even mentioned that. Like there's, there was just something inspiring about the man. And so I just had this image of myself just kind of getting like caught up in that. But like any, you know, prominent figure, there's always these inconsistencies or like, like this thing that's really, like, they're really strong in, has this really dark underbelly that's exposed all the more because they're in the limelight so much. And so like, like I could sit around a campfire and, you know, have a cup of coffee with Daniel Boon. So, you know, he's whittling something, we're teaching me how to make my own gun. I don't know. I would like to know how to wrestle a bear personally. I mean, like, I feel like I can buy a gun, but like, I think there's certain knowledge like, like I don't think, I don't think anybody else around could tell me how to wrestle a bear. So. Isn't that David Crockett? Yeah, probably. No, no, I'm confusing. And was it, is that really David Crockett? Or was that even a thing? I think he's definitely interesting. And on the like ability, like, I give him a, like a seven out of 10 on like ability. You know, he has to like, there has to be certain deductions for like, you know, just some of his general stuff. But I think he did, when you get through it, I think he comes off a little more sympathetic. Than some of the other column is probably would if they had the same level of book written about them. But I think he does come across as reasonably likable. I think he's definitely, definitely interesting. And he has some definite likable things to him. What do you, what do you think about like him as a dad? Like, is there any, are there any takeaways? As him as a dad that y'all kind of took the heart or at least made note of Dave, I'll let you go first. For me, like, one of the things that stood out was like, like the connection that he and his daughter had, like, like, you know, we've talked about his, his manliness, right? I, I want my children to feel safe with me. Right. And, and whether that's, you know, physically safe with me and, or, you know, emotionally safe or like, just to be a, a, to bring a sense of relief to my children's anxieties, whether it's by the things I say or just simply by holding them or just by being there. And so one of the things that was highlighted to me in the book was, like the nature of their relationship and just how she like, never gave up, like, knew he was alive. Like, if, if he was dead, it'd be different, but it's not. So he's not. And how just like she, you know, had the, the trust that he would come and find her and she would do everything she possibly could to try and help make that happen. And just that sense of, of relief when, when he did, in fact, find her. And so I think, like, for me, that's, I was like, yeah, that's what I want. I want that for my kids. I want my kids to know that I am that I want the kids to feel that sense of safety with their dad. Yeah. I think that the, the, the dependability where she knows, like, if my dad will come find me, like, nothing will stop my dad to come find. She's not cocky about it, but you can tell like she's, she's been kidnapped, but she's like, my dad is coming. Like, there's nothing that's going to stop him. And I think if I remember right at the end, like when he was dying, he basically held on until she could get to his bedside. And then so they had, they apparently had a very close relationship. And they, I think they've seemed pretty similar. Like you're talking about like, like he's kind of a manly dude. Well, I think she probably could, you know, we had better. If I think if I had a arm wrestling contest with Jemima, I think I'm probably going to lose. And so she could teach you how to wrestle a pair. But maybe you should have thought about it before, but like how basically women were essentially illiterate at the time. Like, there was nothing like she could do. Like she, as rumors flew later in her life about Daniel wasn't really her dad and different things like she wasn't even able to defend herself to an extent because she couldn't even read her right. So there were a lot of things that she didn't even know about. So anyway, that's off topic with Mateo Ascas. But I think to me that just the dependability of him, of her having such confidence that her dad was going to come find her. Like he would not stop until he found her. So I think that's great. Both of you all, but is he is he a good dad or a bad dad for putting them in that situation in the first place? Right. Like to your point on safety, like you didn't create a safe environment to begin with. I mean, like we're like, like stay in Charleston. Where were they up with North Carolina before, right? So, you know, that don't don't take your family into the into the into Hockey Tucky because you're putting them in a dangerous situation. But then also when she also, you know, put herself in the situation a little bit and kind of got to manipulate it a little bit by the girls who were taunting her. So, but I think your point is in the same situation. I think I probably never left North Carolina to be honest. Yeah. Yeah, probably still in North Carolina. But I'm good. I'm not going to I'm not going to Kentucky. You'll have a good time. Yeah. So is it guilt? Is he just trying to find his daughter because he's so guilty about putting her in this situation? Mm-hmm. Yeah. We've now psychoanalyzed Daniel Boone. Did you did you have anything Mateo? Like thoughts on like take the ways from like just turning the question down. I'm just curious if you had. Yeah, and it's as well. I have more. The reason I ask is honestly to be questioned my mind. Like I so I. I have the certain highlight from the book that I really like. I'm just going to read it real quick. So it says, their lives never oriented around states or establishments, appointments or pensions, but rather built them. around journeys and discoveries, big risks and perspective rewards. And I was talking about Daniel and his wife, Rebecca. And I love that quote, right? Like I love this idea of like, oh yes, like I want to build my life around journeys, discoveries, big risk, perspective rewards. But I can't, I don't, I'm wrestling with that idea, but is that ultimately putting my kids at the expense of my kid, right? Like, does, are those the cost of that? Like, the canoe ride down the river and the big fish, blackfish coming to, you know, to steal them away. So to answer the question, like, I think, I don't know, like, I think, I think he's probably a good dad. I mean, obviously, like, obviously, it's a different time period, right? Like, that's almost like a dangerous profession in the same way, like a modern day firefighting could be, right? And you would never say, like, that's your bad dad because you're a firefighter or, you know, I, whatever risky job, you know, there are 10, yeah. I don't know. But I like the question. I think, Aaron, you asked to earlier, you said, like, we, we're just bad dads. And David, I think you said, like, I'm going to frame this with we're not bad dads. I just like that question. Like, are we bad dads? And like, looking at history, looking at these other dads who like have fantastic qualities, but also negative qualities, right? They will see in every person history. But just asking that one simple question, are they bad dads? Are we bad dads? And I think, I think it's interesting. This is where I think one of the reasons I think all three of us love history, because I think Mateo, you're in a spot in life. We're making some decisions, maybe to hop in some canoes and go down some rivers. And so for you, you read about Daniel Boone, and there's a relevance to you that's greater. Because you're like, hey, wait a minute, this is actually like, I'm thinking about, I'm not going to go like, I'm not moving my family to Kentucky, but I am making decisions about career and different things. And this is what I think all three of us probably would agree on. Like, this is what I love about history, is you read stuff. And then you're like, oh, it's kind of the same thing. Like this has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, but it actually is exactly what I'm talking about. So, so I think I think we're not bad dads. I want to be clear on that. So here's a good, here's a good quote I have from the end of the book. It says, when invited to return to Kentucky some years after he left, Boone said he had quote, the intention of never stepping his feet upon Kentucky soil again. And if he was compelled to lose his head on the block or a visit Kentucky, he would not hesitate to choose the former. So I feel like that's probably a good summary of Daniel Boone and the book and and the podcast so far is hopefully if people have to choose between having their head shopped off or listening to the podcast, hopefully they'll listen to the podcast. Okay, okay, journal steps. Daniel Boone. Daniel Boone. Okay. Colonial service tribal nation. Okay, three, two, one, go. In this episode, the dads discuss, Daniel Boone. Colonial of America. In Matthew Pearl's book, the taking of Jamamaya Boone, Canola is a rare place. And they can't make that shape America. Hey, good. As a star. So is it caronio? Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. Colonio. You can, because your mind's not her. Okay. Colonio. Coo. Colon. And theleased ep in follows The Vegan Pros but fatigue of Gemamaya Boone Colonial Colonial settlers true Tribal nations and they kidnapped that shaped America 3 2 1 go in this episode the dads discuss Daniel Boone Colonial America Matthew Pros book the taking of Gemamaya Pros book 5 4 3 2 1 In this episode the dads discuss Daniel Boone Colonial America And the City of Hockey Toget Matthew Pros book the taking of Gemamaya Boone Colonial settlers Tribal nations And they kidnapped that shaped America