Episode 1: Kenny Hatt — The Story Behind Pine Ridge Music Festival

Hey there, it's Chad here. Starting a podcast, calling it "Set Break". Thanks for tuning in. If you're out there. I've had this idea for a little while now to have some conversations with my friends and people that inspire me, artists, musicians, people in the industry. Maybe fitting it within a set break, but not limited to that. This first-crump conversation I got is a little bit longer. I've been sitting on this for like a year, but things have been so crazy that I just haven't really had the time to get it out or the inspiration or whatever you call it. This episode that's going to be out there in the world is about Pine Ridge, the music festival that I started with my friend Kenny and some other friends up there in the Polka Nose in Pennsylvania. I got an interview for you guys here that I did with them the day after Pine Ridge. We loaded out the festival and the following evening went back up there, finished cleaning up the last stuff and sat down and had this conversation. We were all a little tired, a little delirious. It was a whole week of putting on a festival and working long nights. Like I said, we're a little delirious. My languaging isn't as maybe educated as I'd like it to be, but what are you going to do? We tell the story of Pine Ridge and I feel pretty good about that and I feel like you guys might want to hear that. It's kind of cool coming a year later, coming up on a month from the festival and seeing all the things that we did implement. We talk about getting a new website going and that's all in there. I talk about the new band I'm starting like a couple of weeks after Pine Ridge. I went on the first run with Coyote rodeo and now we're almost a year in to be in a band and a lot of cool things have happened, but we're not going to talk about all that in this episode. A couple other housekeeping things let's talk about Pine Ridge this year is happening in May 21st to the 24th in Albright'sville, Pennsylvania. You can go to Pine Ridge Music Festival dot com for more info about that. We got Fireside Collective there this year, which is the band that I've been traveling around with for two years working for and I'm thrilled to bring them up into my home territory in Pennsylvania, a little bit about me, my name is Chad Brown. I live in Asheville, North Carolina now and from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania originally, which isn't far from the Poconos where Pine Ridge is held. But anyways you can go to the website, Pine Ridge Music Fest dot com to find more info. Check out the lineup, we got Earth Cry, Anthony from Papadotosio, Jonathan Coleman, Dungeon Crawl. Last year we had Jonathan Coleman do WCK, Windermen Coleman, Kimock, Tria, which was some of the best music I've ever seen in my life. So we're really excited about that. We're bringing the kind thieves back. Concles won Grand Band, Nestor, the homies, Cumberland Honey. I'm excited about that because I'm a folky myself and love Bluegrass and acoustic music. We're actually bringing Kayaudy Rodeo up there so it'll be a chance for my PA fam to see my band and I'm excited to showcase that. So yeah, Pine Ridge is a lot of work. We're actually going to do another meeting tonight about some production stuff. We're ahead of the game this year and I have a feeling that this year is going to be the best one yet. Without rambling on because it's a long conversation that Kenny and I had, let's just get right into that and you know, I'll find some ways for you guys to support the podcast if you're interested. This is just kind of the pilot episode. So we're not going to get into all that. We're just going to leave the conversation. I'm going to keep developing this thing. It's not going to be a week to week thing. It's just going to be as I can. But I think it's a fun project. I hope you guys do too and I hope you enjoy my conversation with my partner in the Pine Ridge Music Festival, Kenny Hat. All right. Enjoy. All right, Kenny. Podcast episode number one. It's been a long time coming. Thanks for sitting down and talking. We've got a long weekend and a long couple weeks. How you feeling? Feeling pretty good. We're catching up on sleep. Not really yet. That's the hell to be here a couple of weeks. But yeah, we're getting there. I've been saying we've been getting there. But I think we got there, man. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers. Yeah, you're five. Five years. It started out during the pandemic. This festival Pine Ridge. How do you got any thoughts on the story of the origin story of us and our connection? We met at Stonehenge. Should we just start? We should just start right at the beginning. Yeah, let's start at the beginning. Let's tell the story. Yeah, where do we start? That's the good question. I don't know if we really even met at Stonehenge, but that's where the connection I think happened, where you and Corey were working together for the first time. He's all one production. The bandana brothers. That was our first festival gig with that band. I was playing in. How long was the bandana brothers a band at that point? That was, what year was that? 19 or 18? Yeah, it feels like it was '19 or '19. Okay. We started in around '15 or '16. A couple of years we were playing a lot of bar gigs at that point. And then finally, I was trying to push us to get into the festival circuit. We were a bar band, so that was a little bit of a push and a stretch, but we made it work. We threw a couple extra fish covers and gripped all the covers in and played a festival set. That was a fun jail for sure. Yeah, it's like, it's interesting being young, because you're a little older than me. How old are you now? I'm 35 right now. 35, yeah. I turned 29 on Wednesday. Okay. I forgot that sometimes. Yeah. So it's interesting, because Pine Ridge is like, you know, we're musicians first and like, how does a festival happen? You know, and like, how do all the pieces come together of friends and the resources and finding a venue like this? But we had a lot of good times there at Stonehead, because I feel like I definitely saw you there again over the years, because I was a big part of like my origin and getting into putting on events, because I helped them with a few events after that too. We did like a yoga festival, maybe before that, and before that I did the permaculture convergence. Right. But Corey wasn't really involved in that. It was more like me just being, bringing like a sound system and a couple lights. Yeah. Well, they had, what were Kevin Smith's festivals there? Yeah. K2. Yeah. Something flora or something. Yeah. Flora. Yeah. So that was between. I didn't go to any of those, but I heard about it, and it just was like this legendary thing that I was a young kid. Yeah. And unfortunately, that was right before my kind of time and exposure into festivals. That was, I mean, me and Brittany have been together since high school. And we went to a couple really big ones, but wasn't. What was your first festival? So we were at Rothbury, Michigan in 2009. What? That's crazy. Yeah. That was the first festival, yeah. Went right into the big one. In terms of the people that don't know Rothbury is like this legendary event where like everybody was there, right? From my knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. The first two. So it's before Electric Forest became, you know, E-Forest. So, yeah, it was a jam fest. It was everyone. I think like Bob Dylan had blinded. Yeah. Remember like bringing up that lineup and just like looking at it and freaking out about it. Two nights of Umphrease late night. It might be the coolest like our most stacked festival lineup in the jam scene that I've ever seen. That's why we went. Yeah. And it was '09. So I had just graduated high school. So we were kids. Her cousin took us. They were down in Florida, but they were a big kind of stepping stone into the jam culture. Were you already kind of into that kind of style of music or what was your musical listening at that point or? Yeah. We were making the shift. So I was a metalhead in high school. Met Brit and she mellowed me out quite a bit. Her dad was into the almond brothers. You know, all the, you know, not so much deadheads, but a lot of just good, good, seven. 70s and 80s music, Bonnie Ray, Tom Petty, you know, the classics. Yeah, so she made a lot of music, listened to a lot of Pink Floyd, smoked a lot of weed, you know. As it goes. Yeah, so that, and then like I found fish, and that was kind of the life-changing pivot. Was that after Rothberry or before? I was around the same time, 'cause O'9 was the reunion tour. So we were at the second show on the reunion tour and Joan Speech, so that was nice to look back and feel like we were a part of that. It was the first show after the Hampton run. Yeah, that was cool. It's similar to my kind of like general upbringing, 'cause I was like a metalhead in high school too, going rock, rock in Allentown. I don't know if you ever went there. Yeah, it was always like, "Motion" and just there every weekend and kind of like really gave me like the first experience of like musical community just going there and knowing the people that worked at the venue and all of that. But then I went to gibber jazz in like 2012 or '13, I forget what year it was. And then an equinunk PA, which is, that's how you say that. Yeah, yeah. For you at that one? So it's a funny full circle. We were not at the festival. Then they had equifunk, I think, the friends of ours went to that. Max Creek had lined that year. Okay, well the funny story is like, so in high school that's where we went away to band camp. Really? Yeah, at that same venue. It was a cool little campground stuff. Well happens at band camp. Is it like Jewish or something? I'm not sure. It was nice with the cabins and the lake and yeah, it's a nice spot but that's just a funny kind of coincidence there. Totally. But you go to like something like that and as like a 16 year old, I think I had my permit and I was like, I remember like taking a bunch of acid or something or mushrooms. I forget even what I did. But I remember being like happy and like experiencing all the music for the first time and just being like, "Oh wait, I could be happy." And like, I was like afraid if I was going to like metal music anymore? Yeah, it's nice to honor those roots of heavy music because we all like need that outlet. Yeah. And we'll get to the music and the booking and to, like it was in a Pine Ridge. But yeah, we always like include like some heavier element in there. But there's this thing that's like shifts in your life. Like you said, mellows you out and like, you know, I'm not saying that drugs are that part of that. There's like much more than that, you know, to some point that helps, you know, the psychedelic experience of it and that it's a safe place to enter into that. But it's really like the vibrations of like the music and people getting together and camping. Because at that point in my life, I don't think I'd, I didn't grow up with an outdoors family that camped a lot or did any of that. So I was like my first time camping and for people on Pine Ridge, like people tell me that all the time. They're like, that's my, it was my first time camping and like it just always reminds me of my 16 year old self and just like seeing them run around the grounds and having like smiles on their faces and connecting with people that are kind and welcoming them. And even if you do have that upbringing camping, it's usually your first time camping like with friends. Like in your own space and your own friend group. Not with your parents on like some sort of like vacation. Yeah, exactly. And that's what Stonehenge was for us. I think we were at one of one of the earlier ones that Kevin did over there. And yeah, it was just like we were in high school at that point and it was just, you know, a goofy fun time, you know. It's like we're just having a good time, you know, staying up late, you know. Man, we had so many good times at Stonehenge though, like just like, my first experience is like playing music by a campfire till like the sunrise and. Yep. Yeah, like so it's, I mean, they still have a really good thing going and, you know, I was great to see Kevin and Tom both here this weekend. That's amazing. That's true. Yeah. That is a good point. Yeah, they both stopped by. And now like they have the healing arts community there with harmonica earth. Yeah, which we're also you. There's like a lot of full circle moments we're kind of talking about and trying to move through but like being young inspired by music. Us meeting at Stonehenge pandemic kind of happens, you know, I remember before pandemic after that seeing the band and our brothers at like Whole Foods and a couple other random like shows like I had seen y'all play and at some point we started developing a relationship. And during the pandemic, I threw that earth day festival right. Yeah, the schoolhouse in a mess. That was just coming out of covid, I guess like 2020. Yeah, well, so we stayed in the me and Corey like Corey was working for Claire and just got out of college and in. And then I was doing the good town and was doing is like internship or was maybe like passes internship and you actually got the job then. But then the pandemic happened and you had all his audio gears like living in somebody shed and you didn't have anywhere to go and I was like let's just go to the school. Yeah, like build a studio in the in the events. Yeah, so we took over a classroom and made a recording studio started the band, Baba and played music all the time. They really did happen around all the same time. Yeah, the covid pandemic like as everything was shutting down for. The rest of the world like I think creatives really got a chance to like buckle down and sit down and like create and like you know, even if it's not you know everyone has a different outlet. For our production company, it was definitely like we had a huge auditorium space like to set up all our stuff. We would always like bring the light gear there. We were buying lights and like buying gear ordering things on Amazon and like literally just setting things up and breaking it down and trying out different sound stuff in the studio. And so it was like a really great workshop period for us and being like we could do this and on the back end of it kind of start like actually start our production company. That's like where the name form we actually took out an LLC around that time. But then how did you meet John who owns the property of Pine Ridge? Yeah, so that brings us back to the area of Albrecht'sville and the bandana brother is playing in bars. So John owned the Hickory Run Tavern in Albrecht'sville right next to Hickory Run State Park. You know also known as the Hick and it was the spot in Albrecht'sville for a good run. John did a really good job. He already had a good community of people up here for you know, he owns Pine Ridge Services which is also a landscape company. Who employs a lot of people in the area. He always gave back to the employees through some pretty big Labor Day parties, big fireworks shows. So having that community built around his landscape business and then owning the bar in like V-Spot Albrecht'sville it was a really kind of cool scene that was up there. So we were grateful to play there and he was one of the first and only you know venue owners bar owners that really like gave us a chance in the beginning. It's huge. Yeah, so like that was the first spot where we just had like regular monthly gigs. So having this spot that we just knew that we can go and play and you know we were rougher on the edges like we were just like you got your chops up. Oh, we were just talking to John Boyle as we were loading up the final trailer here and he was looking at videos of us in 2016 and you know he said it in the nicest way possible that we've come along way. That also means you're pretty rough at the beginning. But then you come here and you play once a year with the band-a and a brother's anymore maybe a couple other times. A few times a year. But like you don't practice right? That like you didn't get together for a rehearsal for that set and you guys crushed it. It was amazing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean the magic's there, the connections there. So yeah, I mean there's there's other little nuances and intricacies like you know how that band started was you know Brian rotor was working on a paving crew with Tyrone the drummer. So I mean yeah on the gets paving company which is the gets family which is a big part of Diane's family Diane comes from that family which is just a local you know historically local great family with a lot of a lot of different size that family you know so they own different parts of this property they used to own the whole property. So yeah it's on that end there we are the gets paving band. Okay, so we'll show how to that area. But yeah so back to the Hick we've been playing there for a few years at this time and finally John invites us to play for one of his big Liberty parties. This was prior to the pandemic or during the prior. Okay, cool. So that's where we just set a flatbed trailer out in the parking lot of his shop. I just play I mean we play all night you know two thirty three in the morning. He's blasted fireworks off. I mean it's yep that's that's just the first couple of pirates you throw off fireworks until we actually became a serious thing. Yep. And it's like well you get in trouble and you know so we did have to go through the thing that's a little a couple steps ahead. But fireworks were a big part of it at first. Yeah and he's bugging us he wants to do it again. He's you know it's hard to say never that kind of stuff because they're fun. There's a time in place so we'll figure it out. But yeah one thing led to another appearance it just organically grew then I mean then COVID hit which was the bigger piece of this puzzle where we would live stream up here and it's just a little bit more fun. shop. And then we had the boils and brothers camp out at the end of that summer as COVID was like starting to lift. We got a little more comfortable having like some little bit of a gathering up here. And yeah, we all camped out. I think we had a few other bands shout out to prospect. You know, Kevin was up here this weekend. So that was nice. Kevin Schultz. Yeah. I think I was played. I mean, then at the same time, my other band, Luca, with Brittany was taking shape. So we played a few of those. And then I booked you guys at the Earth Day. That's it. Yep. And then, but like, I don't know where we were hanging out. We were kind of already friends and acquaintances then at that point. I saw you at a bunch of fish shows. I saw you at Trey. The ghost of the forest thing. I think that's where that was. Right. So there were those serendipitous little moments running into each other. Yep. We were meant to like figure like figure something out. I felt like that at that time. I think I remember just being out of a fish show or those things. Those different. It was many instances. Many instances like that up to this habit. Yeah. Where it was like we kept running into each other very rarely. Yeah. And then we chose. But so we're putting together the production company around that time, throw the festival. On that stage, that's the side stage and was the main stage the first two times. Right. So then and you were like, Hey, you know, you could bring all this here. Yeah. Kind of thing. So you were building the production into things. We were building the venue into things and making those connections with, you know, with boils and them up here. So yeah, it was definitely yeah, things were meant to align at that point. That's pretty neat. Yeah. And then so the first year of Pine Ridge, it was bandana brothers and Luca and Baba. And Baba. That's like the three kind of headliners. Yep. So it's kind of like we threw a festival for our bands to play and for our friends to play. Yeah. Well, I mean, this then this brings us back to like our local Strasbourg. And you brought some people down from Valentine's. I forget about this. It was on that bill Rubik's pub. And now they were at the first. Do we get the living things that year? I don't think so. Tommy home, I played KQ Kevin Smith play. I think Tommy started the whole thing off. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out Tommy who I ran into at a ton of open mics over the years. And it's just like that thing where it's like community builds around music and then keeps us together. There's so many friends I've met at like shows at open mics at like little things we've done that like or shows we've pans that have invited us out to play that just become these like lifelong friends that were and really good acquaintances that I see all the time. Yeah. Yeah, it's a tight-knit community. So it's yeah, I don't know musicians. We do have like this uncommon bond just to get a little deep about what I think about fellow musicians is like you were tough but we're also like we're soft in the middle. You know like you have to be tough to be out and gig and yeah sure. But we kind of get each other in a way that's a little deeper than I mean and this goes for anyone in the arts community but I think especially musicians it's a tough world to be and to get out and gig and market yourself and like you're up late in bars and it's a rough and tumbled kind of atmosphere a lot. But yeah you have to be an artist you have to be kind of like yeah you're the gooey inside a little bit is like the way we kind of can relate. There's something about like making friends too as a musician and artist I feel like it's just way easier to like if I see somebody with like a guitar in their hand and you know on pop it around my Mandelina to festival or even anywhere it's just like like there's tons of times on the street I'll like see somebody playing and I have my instrument near me and I'll like just start playing with them and then I made a friend you know yeah. Started a conversation. Music is the universal way to connect. And it's so deep I mean because I mean this will bring us into the festival arena because like gathering in general around music arts food camping I mean sharing your wares your your gifts and your crafts like that's that's literally in our DNA as humans you know that goes so far back. Bicell trade. Yeah exactly yes that's that's why this whole project is such an organic thing and it just kind of fell into place if they. So before we get into this minor region maybe like other aspects of that I wanted to talk about your trip a little bit too because like you know there's like a mental health side to all this is like it's a lot to put things on and you got to like take care of yourself and I know you just want on a big journey to like for a couple months like oh you want to get into it. You don't have to be talking about something else too but I don't know you went on a big travel you know and it's like I feel like that's huge to like get away for a little bit to come back to it because part of our relationship is we have like six seven hour long conversations a year and a couple of methods threads and then somehow it all just comes together and like I live my life I moved down to North Carolina two years in and somehow it all keeps working but I know it's like we didn't really talk so so so much we had a really big journey and we hadn't really gotten to talk about that and just like if you want to say a couple words on that and where you been. Yeah I mean meanwhile you know as all as things develop here with our vision of the festival and both starting businesses around around the festival I mean yeah you took all one and built the LLC we have common flame which we're looking to I mean well I'm looking to rebrand and like really blow out this year so stay tuned for that but yeah meanwhile life happens man and it's tough and all the interpersonal things that go on in between and then you're expected to hold space for all these other people. Yeah I mean it's nice I mean this is like going into this it's like keeps you going in a big way you know like anyone could go into any line of work and you have to love it I always thought like finding a job was like important to find something where like you don't mind doing every day like that was the thought I had but it's like really like you want to find something that like really lights you up and like yeah and like you know if you could really think on how to you know market that and sell your passion in a way that you can sustain yourself that's the goal I feel like. And the musician's dream somewhat too but like it's hard. Yeah yeah at the same time but like you so you traveled for two months. Yeah bringing back to that yeah right before this and you just felt so refreshed afterwards and that's why I bring it up. Yeah like I said there's there's personal stuff going on with me just in my personal growth journey that I needed to kind of just go and get a clear head around where I was at and it was a good time right pre-festival I mean it was I was working full-time on festival yeah I was also working on Starlink. Yeah I was up on forest roads on top of mountains like you know with solar and Starlink and Rick and pretty much remove anywhere. That sounds like a dream to me. Yeah and and big big shout out to Brittany my partner you know she has had patients for this and stood by me and we are still trying to make make it all work because it's it's a lot you know it's a lot on anyone individually. Yeah you take most of the financial risk on this like I feel like we're partners somewhat in it but like you still take a lot of the financial thing and I need to like have to pay crew to make the thing happen so. Yeah and that's some that's another piece of it that's it's I wasn't gonna bring it up but you're nailing the questions here. Yeah yeah that is the piece that people don't really understand they see us running around like crazy working hard in the rain all night but that financial risk is very real. Yeah especially I mean I get stressed looking at the numbers because you know you're pretty transparent with me on it and we have a lot of conversations and I feel like I'm also like moral support as much as I just like in production we eat it's like I feel like I'm Kenny's like a cheerlead you on. Yeah I appreciate everyone out there who like just supports and loves what we do and offers those words of encouragement but yeah in the beginning so that during this time of COVID and everything we were just I mean stuck inside working I was working full-time doing like construction estimating and stuff like that which I you know it paid the bills it was remote it was great in that way but I absolutely cannot stay and staring at like construction plans all the time it was using the capacities I did not have so in the meantime I would get distracted by festival planning and I also got into like investing and looking into like day trading and stocks and that kind of thing did not do well at all so if you're looking into options trading be careful. So you know with that said you know with the learning curve I'm you know getting back into it now. But also if we're talking like a little bit of the money like John gave us the property for free for the first couple years right yeah like semi close to it which is huge. Yeah I mean so the reason I brought that up like this was all like a major investment and I felt so confident and the pieces falling together and the vision and the need for something like this so one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard from like someone entrepreneurial is just find like some kind of need in your community that you think you can like kind of fill by doing something you love and I just felt like all those pieces was we're very much fitting together around music and community, which is, we were all already doing that, you know? Something we didn't mention was like the Josie Porter farm opened my-- - Oh yeah, that was huge. That's where I, that's right, 'cause I was going to that. I started coming, 'cause Bill Mede was helping out a little bit or coming at least. - He was coming and supporting yeah, exactly. - Yeah, and I don't know. I feel like that's a big part of it. - It was a big part of that. - That kind of was your incubator time of like, you threw many little festival on a farm every week, just for the-- - Yeah, so every two weeks, everyone's dead. - Yeah. - And we got shut down, you know that was-- - Which is another part of this. - It was good enough. - Like people shut you down. They don't want you to get in a field and have a good time. - Yeah, well, I understand. And it's going through this process of like, zoning and like, landing. - Totally. - Landoose, occupant, like, you know. - Which we didn't do till what year-- - Do you two? - Half, or just two? - But it was like the, we did two the second year, right? So it was the third one. We got through two without all that. - Yeah, the first year was our soft opening, you know, under the-- - Yeah, and there's more like a glorified backyard party. - Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. By the time we were booking cabinet and like, you know, there's-- - You start to book real bands, you need to-- - Work with the Sherman, the year and get in the stage up here. Yeah, and-- - There's liability things that happen. - What happened? - We wanted to make sure, yeah, we weren't going to get shut down in the middle of that. - Mm-hmm. - But yeah. So yeah, that's where those seeds were kind of planted that like really felt right and felt like, I mean, things take money. And, you know, a few personal loans and a lot of credit debt later. - Yeah. - But your belief in it was there from day one, you know, like just sort of the need for the community and belief, like I remember using that language all the time, just saying how much you wanted to fulfill that for Straussburg, because they don't really have that. We have Penn's Peak, you know? - Yeah. - Which is amazing, but it's like kind of like you need money to go there. And it's like just to have something accessible and affordable for people to come to. It's like so important. 'Cause even, you know, the cost of what we do is probably worth more than the ticket price. But at the same time, you know, people can't afford that, you know? I couldn't afford that as a young kid going to Gibber Jazz's. You know, when they started to increase the price, I stopped going a little bit, because I'm like, oh, you know. - Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, these times economically are tough, you know? Like there's inflation through the roof right now, and you know, it's just tough on everybody. So yeah, we do try to just allow the opportunity to come to the, you know, a lot of people's first festival, first camping experience. Like you said, it's, yeah. That's definitely a goal. That's one thing where like, you know, you always want to strive for quality of equality, but you know, in terms of accessibility and inclusivity, like you do want to invite as many people as you can, and the widest range of types of people as you can. So that's been a major driving force right from the start, too. We want to invite everybody, you know? Like if you feel the pull to come and check it out, like just, please, you know, come check it out. Absolutely. We'll keep it open. There's all styles of music, too, you know? It's not like, like musically. Yeah. That said, though, like as a local festival in an area that like doesn't really understand what the festival scene is, like when they come in and think it's like a craft fair or something like that, that's, you know, fine, you know, if you're gonna pay a few bucks to get into the, to a flea market. Yeah. That's what a lot of like, you know, the community kind of expects us to be. And you know, we do get a lot of people turning around at the gate when they see $150 for a weekend, but what they don't understand is like, yeah, that type of investment and that type of, you know, cost to throw a giant, you know, event like this at the-- There's a lot of costs. Like renting the big stage, that's all 100 is-- Was a big step up. Yeah, so those stages, you could either, you know, put a mortgage on a house or you can invest in a stage like that. So those are definitely pricey pieces of equipment, which we're lucky that we have, you know, a production company through the Sherman Theater, right in our town. It's amazing. So Rich Berkowitz, big shout out to the Sherman Theater. Rich got that thing going, that place, you know, he pulled it out of, I don't know, it was before my time in the '90s, but it was not going well, you know, so he, you know, he's a business guy, he's a numbers guy, and he makes things work for the community, you know, he gets a lot of, you know, slack for, you know, not necessarily like-- I don't know, people's perceptions are all over the place, but, you know, he just does what needs to be done to support the infrastructure and that baseline of things just being able to happen, you know? And he was able to do it. But what we do isn't all about the money, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, there's obviously this hopeful thing that it's going to turn profit in as the years can go on, and it keeps building, and people will just be happy to support that, and that'll be like a natural thing. But I feel like the way that we're doing this, it's not like-- Yeah, unfortunately, yeah. It's like-- First of all, it's not always how it works though. I mean, sustainability is key. Money has to come in at some point, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and unfortunately, when you're really trying to just pull off a logistically and sound and safe event, you know-- It costs a lot of money. And your additional revenue streams often get missed, because that's secondary to, like I said, just running a logistically-sounded safe. You know, that's what we're focused on is like, you know, making it happen. Keep the wheels on the bus, you know? So your additional revenue streams like merch, we've never had Pine Ridge merch. Nope. So sorry, stay tuned. We always say we're going to do something afterwards. And then as soon as Pine Ridge is done, we take a little nap. Well, this year we've got a lot more people together and brains behind it and inspiration of people wanting to get involved, because I feel like it's always been a little bit of you, Brittany, me, and the people here at Pine Ridge. And then the couple of other people helping out with vendors. And you know, it's been a smaller crew of people that were coming and going in those other positions. Yeah, so I mean, for the first couple of years, it was me and Brittany and then Chad and Corey. Yep. And that was basically it. We had help, obviously we have a lot of help and helping hands. But in terms of coordination efforts, just volunteer scheduling, vendor coordination, layout, even the site ops. So much is on your shoulders. And then all the production, which-- But I get lucky on that then, because it's a lot of weight on my shoulders, especially now, with living in North Carolina and having to drive a trailer up 10 hours. Yeah. It's crazy. It's like I feel a little bit insane. And I set it all up and run it. But at least during the weekend, I'm at the stage, watching the music. And it's all flowing. And I'm taking that. You're doing-- we're in a lot of other hats during the weekend. Yeah. Unfortunately, the first few years, that's what it was. I mean, we have to give credit for credit as do you. Absolutely. Everyone lends a hand. And being up here with John Boyles and the Pioneer Services crew, the first few years, he had his whole crew out here working with us, helping get trash, helping with the site. Firewood. It's such epic fires. Yeah, so great. Yeah, so just the way he does his property maintenance services, we always have a ton of firewood on site. Yeah, so that's stuff. I mean, that's where it just all fell into place. It just made so much sense to just pull this off up here. But it's like this trust that people come together. I think in those early years, that was there. But I think I've learned to trust that more as we've done it more and more. That like, OK, the people will show up and help me where needed. And want to help. At least for what live role has on the weekend and some of the extra hands I might need. You're right. The problem is, I mean, we're coming back to the budget. We've never been able to employ anyone or pay any major coordinator positions. We try to cover costs with production just because it is a music production. We want to put on the best quality stage production as possible. So we invested in that. Which I think went off without a hitch this year. I'm so proud of it. And every year, I feel like we've had barely any issues. And I just like know for other festivals of our size, there's always something going on on the stage or somewhere that like, it's rare to not see that. There is something to be said that really kind of hit me this year. To a fault, we are perfectionists and we're all very hard on ourselves. Anyone involved in this festival, we have such a high standard of quality that we want to provide. But it's never going to be good enough. There's always going to be something to build on and improve on. But that's why it's gotten better every year. I was like trying to look at a word rather than it being stressed because I was saying, it's been stressful, whatever. And just a different word than stress. Yeah, there's probably another way to put it. Somebody said, "Anxiety." There's something like anxious and excited at the same time. I don't like that either. It's just like-- I have a problem, so it's-- There's care. It's like, the stress means I care. It's only because I don't know what's going to happen. Anything could happen, the weather, and it was really raining this weekend. But it worked out. we made through, we solved the problems, like he said. - Yeah, and that's what we were marking on to, is like anything that did come up, and like shit comes up, you know, like our luckily, this could have been a catastrophe, but it wasn't. You know, the stars kind of aligned that no one was hurt, but our hospitality tent collapsed this year. - I think it collapsed last year too. - No, it's a big unique, we had to like mend some things. - That's okay. - So some things together, but you know, we had a nicer weather weekend, we got really lucky last year with the AGT and that reunion. That was a big year, but this year the weather was just shit. All weekend, it was, I mean, it wasn't shit, like it's a negative way to put it, it was, but it was volatile, it was windy, it was raining. - But didn't break anybody's spirit from, - No, what I saw, there were smiles everywhere. - Yeah, the vibes were high, but unfortunately our hospitality tent, like just the ropes, and that thing, I mean, we got that from you originally, and if you're nose where you got it, that might have been like second or third hand. - Like party city or action party rentals. - Okay, oh yeah, so it was a rental tent before that. So that thing's seen some years on it, and it just like finally decided that was enough wind, but luckily, - You lost the production tent in the first day. - Yeah, yeah. - Had a friend to pick up, shot out to eight, and for picking me up, a new front of house tent, a dick sporting goods. - Yeah, so that's, I mean, then this comes back to our Pine Ridge site up here in the lovely Polk and Hose, it gets windy. - It gets windy, it's rainy, we're on top of the mountain here. It's high elevation weather, but it brings out the best in all of us, 'cause it provides us a problem solving opportunity to really kind of address that. And through those elements, we all do come together and really make sure everyone's okay. Lend a hand, lend an extra hoodie, or a rain jacket. - Yep. Somebody brought me some socks, 'cause I went through, I don't think my feet were dry until Sunday this week, and I got dry socks, and I went through ton of water. - Find it at Frank's. (laughing) - So what was your favorite parts about, like all the years of Pine Ridge, just like what are highlight memories for you? - Oh man. - Hey, Randy. - How are you? - Hi, it's okay. - Favorite parts of Pine Ridge. - We're talking about our favorite parts of Pine Ridge, so this is a good seat for you to come in. - So, I'll ask Kenny first, and then you should hop on and say something. - That's really hard to say. I mean, I think just, yeah, I don't think there is a favorite part of Pine. I think it's more of a conceptual thing. It's not really one specific moment. It's more of just the magic and the realization that, like, we are all one in this, like bringing it back to all one productions, and the way we aligned in the beginning of, like, we were already working on these things, and it just like the universe brought us together to do this. - Yes, and follow the kind of dreams of that, you know? Like, I guess I'm not like what I was looking for from you. I'm like, I'm into that with your response, but like for me, like having cabinet there, you know? Like, I grew up, that was the first band I followed around, and just the fact that like, you had some resources, and we tossed around the ideas, and like, remember in those conversations of being like, let's get cabinet, let's get cabinet. And that was like a dream, and you made that dream for me and come true, you know? - Yeah. - And like. - Oh, man, but that was also the most stressful year. - Yeah. - Holy, yeah. - That's what I'm saying, there's so much more in your shoulders than me. I kind of get to experience it for it's like, I was crying when that was happening. Like, we were crying for other reasons. (laughing) - There were, yeah, I mean, while you were living it up, man. (laughing) Yeah, I mean, big, big, big shout out, and props to everyone who was with us through those formative years, 'cause they were really tough, emotionally tough, and those involved, like, no, I'm talking about, like, it's, you reach your breaking point, you know, when you have that much stress, and that, this many people to manage, and you're just, you know, it's trial by fire, you know? It's other production companies probably have a little bit better than I do, (laughing) of what to do, you know, they'll look for guidance, they'll like, bring in another festival, like, coordinators, someone to kind of help you. We had no idea what we were doing. - Absolutely not. - What was the major issue at that point that happened? - Honestly, not to bring anything specific up, but it was finding the right roles for the right skills and personalities, and, you know, it's, some people are really good at, you know, coordinating, and like, the back end work, like, that's the way some of our brains just work. We like to analyze, keep things organized, and spreadsheets, and schedule volunteers, and that kind of thing. But in the stress of the moment, it is very, it's a different skill set, and that's where, you know, as a, the role of, you know, co-founder, a festival organizer, whatever, you know, I'm adopting here, and my role here is like, I've felt like I've always been on like, vibe patrol, you know, is like, deescalate, distrustful situations, make sure everyone's doing okay, and helping out as much as possible. - I think this mic will probably pick it up too. - No, thank you. - There's three little things you don't have. - But, yeah. - We got Brittany here, hands-awesome partner, and you've been such a huge part of this, for, since day one. - Can you answer the time here? I'm gonna, two years. - Okay. What are your highlights of this experience? - So, I guess for all of them, you kind of forget it when it's the next year, and it's all the front loaded work that you have to do without the gratification yet of what that work all goes for. So, when I'm out there, and I just see the, really just each smile, like it tallies up in my brain, how much joy people get out of it, and making it impression on people too. Not necessarily impressing them, but I hope we do that too, with just, you know, we have high standards, try to do things high quality in our humble grassroots way. So, when people just get stoked about what we're offering, you know, for the people involved, like hospitality, or. - Which the food's amazing, everybody raves about it. - Thank you. (laughs) I gotta give it a try. - Shout out to mom. - My mom, Kyle, for that, she's amazing. She's such a nurture or two. We are just nurturing personalities, so, we love to just see people having fun, and for me, I love facilitating adventures, I love facilitating people going out of their comfort zone, and getting joy and. - You're gonna go back to work today, too, right? - I did, it was a interesting day. That's kind of what I get to do for my job as kind of an environmental educator, and I was out preparing to take people on a kayak trip through the cranberry bog, and there were a lot of trees down that I had to saw from my kayak. So, I was doing some work today, but, so facilitating just happiness at Pine Ridge means a lot, and keeping the vibes high, whether that's just the silly unglamorous stuff, keeping the place tidy and looking like we're on top of. - I'm always changing a trash can out, and there's always something you're doing, and even if you look stressed in a moment, there's always a smile on your face later. - Yeah, yeah, it comes in waves, and then I have somebody very steadfast next to me who can help out with my dynamic emotions sometimes. - It's natural. - I also love going around just the village that's created, 'cause we're so much involved with the little hubs, making sure we're taking care of bands and staff, and the gate and everything, but actually going out onto the grounds, and trying to imagine this place from a patrons perspective that just gets here, whether they've been here before, or they have friends who convince them to come here, knowing it'll be a good time, and then they reach this place, and here we are, we gotta set out these roads, and we just wanna make this a good experience for everyone. So, imagining how they feel when they come, and they just find a special spot to camp at, and create their own little home there, and feel comfortable, experience. - And now people have their campsites that they've developed for years, and which is just interesting to see in the first couple years, I feel like we didn't really know what we were doing with Scydops, and it kinda was like, "Yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense." And then all of a sudden it kinda came together, and to then walk the grounds, I didn't really get to do a lot, 'cause I'm always bouncing around just in the center, the nucleus of it, but then I do try to make an effort to at least do one walk through the vendors, and say hi to people, and do that during the day, end at night, and just to walk down that alley at night the other night, and the stars were all out, and I was just walking with a friend, and I was like, "Wow," and just seeing everybody smile, and a little fires going in the campground, and it's just like hearing somebody on the phone with their bed, they're like, "Where ya at?" "Where ya at?" This is my first mind-rich, I just got here, where you guys can't put that in. Like, I know those feelings. You know, when I was young, going to things, and just showing up at night to the festival, and I just had to work, or whatever it was, and I made it there, and just that feeling of excitement, and you could feel it in the air, like people just energy and man. Yeah, well, trying to replicate that experience that we were so influenced by going to festivals, and then feeling like, you know, if you're compelled by this experience, you know, then maybe that's your calling to provide it for others to the best of your ability. Take everything that you have loved, and our skill sets, and put it together for others, 'cause yeah, I love seeing the growth there, and how they have their all their little sights, and we just lay out this road, and then it just, everything is just develops from there, from just people, like in the space, like in this moment. and time we create for them. - Absolutely. - Yeah, that is like the beautiful part of what we're doing. I feel like, 'cause you know, you never know how it's gonna affect individuals in that field. You know, there's so many people, you know, that come out to this event now. I think we're right around like 1200 last year. - That's cool. - Okay, cool. - I didn't know what the numbers were this year. If you haven't, you didn't count them. - Yeah, yeah. - It's TBD. - Yep. - We're getting more technologically advanced, but something we are not very advanced at is counting people through the gate. So we have to go through and count all the waivers and do some math with the wristbands. And, but yeah, I mean, we anticipate that to grow a little bit this year. But, you know, like I said, like you don't know how it's gonna land with people. And like what they're going through in life. Everyone's at different points in their lives. So could either be like that pivotal point where like it pulls them out of like this rut or this depression or this toxic relationship or anything. They're bad habits, you know? So, I think it's just-- - Or put some into it. - Yeah, I mean, like you never know, but you don't have control over that, you know? But it's intention and holding space and like showing up for people with that like care and compassion, knowing that you don't know what they're going through. - Yeah, and something like I've been, and you know, we've all been conscious of, is like I said before, like the vibe patrol. Like, you know, it's more than just like making sure our staff is okay. It's kind of centering the values that we want, that we feel are important in a community. - I feel like this year that really came together and you've done a wonderful job, just kind of emulating that. And you've always done a great job in the emails with people just like showering positivity and your reflections of just like, hey, this is a community and this is what we want. And show up, thank you, you know? And like showing appreciation and-- - Yeah, and we want to lift each other up. That's the end goal here, I think. You know, so I mean, if we can like go into business by just like empowering other people and lifting each other up, like, that's awesome. Like let's grow together. So that's where I mean, like you never know where that divine spark of inspiration is going to land with people. So in five years, like people have just like found us and like with their inspiration, brought incredible gifts and offerings to the table and their talents, you know? So this is the first year like with marketing help, with like absolutely talented people helping get marketing help. Jesse and Jamie, big shout out here. We had first year with a vendor coordinator, Anna and then her partner Tom with the electrical. - He helped me out greatly and we figured out our electrical issues and got it going real quick. - Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just like the right people are just getting involved at this point and I feel like that is just because, you know, I don't know about, I just took it for granted. I thought everyone stood at shows and music festivals dreaming about throwing shows and music festivals. - People don't know how to do it. That's the difference. - Yeah, but no. But it's probably something completely different for them. They're dreaming about another thing that's lighting their soul like, you know? So that's it is like whatever is like that burning a common flame. - Yeah. - It's a thought seed. It's a vision for a visionary. But seeds don't grow when you don't like nurture them too. So it's been, yeah, it's been a process of learning how to how to take that seed, how to grow that plant and how to like trim it and maintain it and turn it into this like the most beautiful plant. We could try to have here in Pine Ridge's dynamic weather environment. - I love the garden references that works for everything. - I love that. - You got to water your plant. - You got to put it in. - You're like your actual plants. - Manacure the seeds. - No, I lost, yeah. - We got wet. - Oh, we got water. Well, I didn't shower for like since like Tuesday. I was like the longest I've went for a shower. - Yeah. - Just stayed outside for five minutes. - All right, we're gonna take a poll later about getting showers at Pine Ridge 'cause we did it last year and it was a really funny Facebook video. - Oh my God, that was hilarious. - But I think there could be like a cheaper option for getting some showers. Like even if we just got some of those water heaters and it'll happen. - Yeah, it'll happen. - I mean, if we're actually, so this is something else, yeah, so like after polls, we're gonna start asking for more opinions. You know, 'cause we're thinking about a date change now. We were thinking about venue changes, but you know, Pine Ridge is so special to our heart. Every year, I mean, Chad, how many years have we said, this is the last time we're ever doing this? - Yeah, but then it kind of happens. Like, - Matt says that. - No, no, we don't. - No, we just have like a phone call. And we were like, "Yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen this year." And then like this is like through December and Christmas. And then, - It's just conversation. - Then other conversations happen. And then all of a sudden, like, you're like, "Oh, I booked this band." Or whatever it is. And then all of a sudden, it's like, "Well, I guess we're doing it." - Well, that's a good thing. - And then, - And then, - And I don't know if I ever really make a decision or we'd have a conversation where I'm like, "Yeah, like, I wanna do this, I don't wanna do it." Obviously, I want to, because I wanted to say like, per some of the inspiration that you guys were just saying, it's like, "You guys have helped me follow my dreams." You know what I mean? And in that, and like, helped me grow as a person. And I feel like I've grown every year. And I can see that through this thing, you know, and my team's grown and my skills. And whatever that might be. And I've figured a lot of things out through this thing. And, you know, I think that's just like, totally invaluable. And hopefully we're holding space for other people to do that. And trusting that people are gonna show up. And whether it be the marketing people, you know, whatever role that needs to be filled. Like giving somebody the space to step up and giving somebody a chance, you know, it can save your life, you know? And give you direction and path forward. And having kind people around to, you know, support that and reflect that back that you're, you know, valued and doing a good job. And yeah. - I'm glad you did say that. I mean, 'cause like, you know, you say it kind of lightly that it could save your life. Like, you know, like we never really know the ripples and the impacts of what we do. You know, and it gets deep, you know? Like it gets real heavy sometimes. - Oh yeah. - And people go through some hard parts of life. And you know, you never really know the impact you have in. - I have a capacity to stuff it down that a lot of other people don't. Like, you know, I've definitely went through some hard things, especially this year. My mom like came paralyzed this year or the year and a half now. And that's just been huge and a lot to process, right? But like, whatever the hard thing you might be going through, I feel like I like kind of push it down to go through and I feel like it's healthy to like show up to an event and have people, you know, around me that are positive. And I'm like, I'll deal with those other emotions later and maybe I deal with it in the music when I'm hearing a certain song. And I process things that way. And it's silently and it's internally. And I've been trying to get better at not allowing like my inner energy to affect the way I'm showing up outwardly. And it's taken a long time to get there, you know, 'cause there might have been other points where I'm like, it's always on my mind, you know, and I can kind of like put those things that are hard out of my mind to just show up in the moment and be present and absorb all these vibes we're talking about 'cause that's what's healing rather than just like bringing the negativity to the table. But like the work, like that pressure to work and show up is what I get some trying to say is healthy for me. That I'm not saying that's for everybody might have a different experience, but like all of that pressure to like throw a festival and put how many bands, 30 bands on a stage and like I have to operate. I can't let any of this other stuff get the best of me. It's just like no matter what, this has to happen. - Yeah, but in the same, you know, on the other hand, like here we are talking about it now, you know, just on this podcast, I mean, I feel the pressure of like needing to get it out in this podcast too. - Yeah. - But, you know, this Pine Ridge specifically, I've had more conversations revolving around mental health than I think I've ever had. You know, in a single day. - Yeah. - At the, it was Sunday into Saturday. Well, no, yeah, that's how time works. (laughing) - It was Monday, you know, that on the breakdown day, it was a beautiful day. - One big day of the whole week. (laughing) - Yeah, somehow, you know, we looked out with a beautiful day for breakdown, which is always a blessing. But that's when we, I ended up sitting down with multiple people talking about mental health and their struggles and just how nice it is to like just be in relationship with people and open space for people. - To make people feel safe too, like I feel like there's a couple times people talk to me about like, you know, I never, I just feel like I could be myself here, you know, like conversations like that or like just like with what they're wearing, they're outfit, like they're like, I would never wear this outfit that I'm wearing somewhere else and they're wearing just like some funny hat, you know, I don't know. Like, I don't know, little things like that. It's like huge, that like, okay, I'm grateful people feel safe to be themselves and that's huge. That's like what we're trying to create. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's kind of full circle back to like, my personal growth stuff. I mean, we're all going through this personal growth to just be seen and, you know, be comfortable. So in that line, we are trying to like bring in like the most inclusive type of community as we can. So everyone's feels welcome across the board. - Well, I think you're doing it. (laughing) We're trying, we're trying. - Yeah, thank you everybody for trusting us 'cause it feels really good to be trusted and also feels good to know, yeah, to trust others too and be vulnerable and that's something we're definitely learning. So when you come to a place where, I don't know, [BLANK_AUDIO] trust us to lead this beautiful experience for them and we trust this community really wants to show up for it and be part of it and we'll make the effort to be here to make this worthwhile and bring their best selves and and stuff so it's so cool. Not just your best but your messy selves. Alright yeah that's it. We're gonna work through it. Yeah. We're gonna get through it. I mean you see it like you see people just like getting messy out there and I'm like let's be going through it right now. I was just a smiley mess all weekend. Well I've seen as we stopped you know having to run around like crazy I was I couldn't really put a cook here and thought together but yeah I like you come to front of house and you sit down for a second I'm like yeah hang out. I had a lot of fun on Saturday night and Friday I had fun the whole weekend I was like beaming the whole time. Yeah it usually for us on our end it's like usually Saturday, mid-afternoon, late evening like when we can finally look around it's like hey there's nothing really to do. Yeah that's a weird feeling. It kind of just happens there's like work work work set up set up set up and then all of a sudden the first band goes on there's still more set up to do. Friday is a stressful day for sure. I mean load in vendor load in but then Friday as things are really like kicking in people are shown up and there's still quite a bit to do that's stressful you know and that's where I like it that's where you all see us ever like like crazy. Cough cards flying by. Well so I feel like we're getting closer to an end time but I wanted to kind of like first I'll ask you if you have any questions or thoughts before I ask my last-ish questions. Oh man questions for you. Yeah questions for me or thoughts on your head of what you want to say. I'd like to know like what you what where your vision is like what's your goals in life like in life in life in the festival. Yeah I guess that's what I was gonna ask next. What's the vision for the future like where to from here what's next but cool. Yeah I mean yeah yeah it's a good segue. Well so shout out to Corey I feel like I couldn't do most of this without him. He's been such a like best friend to me in my life and just like playing music in a band and like all of it for me has been like creating something like this to play you know like at least the festivals we threw in the early days and investing in all the production equipment it was like we were 16 you kind of said something about a bar giving you an opportunity we couldn't really play bars right you know like because we weren't 21 yet. Yeah yeah so it's like sort of gave us a outlet to like we would throw house shows and and then started throwing our own little festivals we threw a gathering of the Chi at Aidan's and Alley's property out in German'sville and yeah I think just Corey's support in in the production side and the audio side he was going to college for that we would practice and just like helped it we always did DIY recording and recorded our albums that way and so a lot of just like DIY mentality yeah and he's learning from like the best in the world I guess was what I'm trying to get into with working for Claire and introduced me to a lot of people audio wise so we didn't have him here this year and and Lizzie and her whole crew just crushed it you know Corey Ariel and Jack and then I have my buddy Kenny who I played in a band with in Golden Twine Kenny G yeah and he runs the side stage and Charles helped out so it's like really great to just have so many friends around me that are like supporting that vision and I guess I'm just saying that's where it's gotten to and to where it's going I don't know I still think my meant like I've grown to such a point where it's like I could run lights for a band right because I've done a lot of lighting stuff I could stage manage you know like I feel like I'd be a pretty darn good stage manager or production manager because that's what I think I am here I'm like the production manager and like stage manager and like people face money people think I like run sound and I do like I definitely run a couple of the bands on the side stage I definitely set up audio on the the wood stage but like people come up to me and I'm like run lights and I'm like hey nice job on the sound and I'm like thanks no I like how that point of band but it does feel that way I love running lights because it makes me feel like I'm in the band or that my energetic thing is affecting it but I don't do that all the time I really only get to do it here and it would be a totally different transition to try to do that on tour and other contexts because it's my system I set it up I know how it works and pretty confident in it and my ability to do that so it's like I guess I have to make some decisions personally like do I want to go more down a production route and work with the band because I work with this band fireside collective shout out to fireside and they've been amazing to work with and like you know who knows there's potentials there but there's also potentials with other bands like I work with Colby's band the kind thieves a little bit and everything he's doing we're starting a bluegrass band and playing start and going on a run mid-September so that's gonna be fun I play in boot graph so I have a lot of things going on and that's I take photos so I've been trying to like tie it all together and that's like kind of my general Gemini self is like doing lots of things not being a master of any of it and tying all the visions together and Pine Ridge is like my big show and I want to continue that to be the big show every year but otherwise it's like I kind of like riding the coattails of other bands going taking some photos at a festival and getting to just like hang out and pick with no care all night so I don't know I think I've realized that I do want to play still and I don't want to sacrifice that because I see you know people like Corey and my buddy Judah and a lot of the friends I grew up with like just Jammin in high school and in the earlier bands it's like I'm not saying they gave it up but they don't play anymore I still like you know right after this I got gigs like I got to get back down to Asheville for a gig and then and we're touring the next weekend and then touring the next week and so I got three weekends of like tour now coming up and it's I feel like it's the end of my golden year being 20 turn in 29 I was 28 on the 28 so feel like I'm finally doing what I want to be doing if that makes sense it's like I for my whole life I've wanted to tour and just like as a musician but I couldn't get the bands up here around me to like feel confident enough or want to dirtbag it enough to like actually do it and now I have people like that around me that you know that are really good and the skills and and opportunities just hit the road a little bit so I think that's at least what's next for me this year is just like hitting the road a little bit more than ever in different musical contexts whether it's like working for a band or playing in one we're taking photos or running lights or something so I don't really know but I'm excited about all of it I'm pretty excited about it all so I mean that's what's next for me and and I kind of look forward to taking more time to build Pine Ridge this year than rather like rather than start in our conversations around the Christmas holidays kind of like getting it going now and seeing how we can make make it better and and keep building a team that's excited about it include other people so that we can just enjoy it more but also have it being a well-oiled machine because that's Michael's I put a lot like I say about stress I feel like I stress a lot about it I don't do it all the time driving all the way up from North Carolina is so there's a lot and I did the drive alone this year I got a hotel halfway through and just like really took time to get into my Zen mindset on it and just like I'm gonna be okay I'm gonna do it but like there's so many elements that could go wrong like I stress about my car breaking down you know and not being able to get the things here it's like what would you guys do yeah well we make it happen yeah you would have to and that goes in that yeah there's a there's a current of energy that flows around this event and this you know project that anything that does come up we do manage to find a way and you know it's you just kind of get back into that flow and yeah we would find a way we get you to show you trailer or rental or something yeah we would figure it out but yeah that's that's me yeah well real quick there is definitely I want to just say that like you moving to Asheville while it's sucked at the time and we're still a little salty about it yeah there's a there's a pre-move chatty and post-move and like you've you know you've grown so much and you know developed your skills and just the people that you met and stuff it's it's well part of the comp lot of people ask me this year like how does the booking work in this and that and I was like well Kenny does all the booking but I I thought about it I'm like I send you a list of like bands that I've met through the whole region yeah the south and I was like Kenny goes through it some of the bans he books and then I was like I feel like I get like two to three bands maybe a year that I'm like book this band you're always a little too late the game that's that starts in December so yeah for any bands looking to go on the bill get a bug in my year early because it fills up very fast yeah yeah but that's part of the fun we meet all kinds of people and all kinds of good music there's a submission form yeah get involved we want you here yeah so that's a segue into like what we yeah yeah what do you guys feel is coming next so common flame events is the business that we started to throw the festival So we're looking at a rebrand this year and a name change into the concept of a common flame creative. Getting out of the events arena, not totally, we all still do Pine Ridge. I still would love to get open air open mic going again. There's a few venues we'd like to look at. But yeah, but we want to collaborate. We want to continue lifting up artists and musicians and just people in general. Through this platform, through this community, get your content online, get your art online, collaborate on a clothing line with art, with your art on it, sell your products, sell your stuff through some kind of online platform. That's the very, very rough model right now. So don't quote me on all that, but that is the bare bones model that we're looking at. And yeah, also step in and supplement where we can with other productions, other shows, other projects. What about this? I'm thrilled with the concept of a river trip, like, things. I've seen so many bands do it and I obviously love bluegrass music and string band stuff. Strings are a little easier to bring on the apps and amp-of-hires. We don't need any amp-of-hires. We just kind of go do a river trip and you said you've been wanting to get me on the river forever and we haven't done it. Yeah, I'm surprised we haven't had and we try to go out there. I'm just saying, even if it's not that, we got to do that. I am all about that. I would love to connect outdoor adventure and the fulfillment that you get out of that with just the fun and the vibes and the music that, you know, combining that all together would be super cool because we did, when we were common flame events, that was kind of a shorter version of common flame events and experiences. So, you know, we want to be a creative and lift people up, but then still, you know, we have, I mean, pine ridges and event, but providing, like, unique experiences. It's an extreme sport. That's what we were talking about this morning. Yeah. I really did. The specials that extreme sports are about. So thanks for fucking my calves are raw. We have festing up here. Yeah, prepare for the weather, but yeah, I mean, that was a fun idea we had. We were all guided for poking a white water for over 10 years on the Lehigh, live right on the Delaware and the water gap. So, yeah, it only makes sense. We love to facilitate those experiences for friends and just get people out doing things that they don't ordinarily wouldn't be able to do or wouldn't have the motivation levels or the gear. You know, we've accumulated a lot of outdoor gear after a while. I mean, we're almost kicking around the idea of like becoming an outfit or two, like, and just like outfitting people just to get out and like go camping, like on the river. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't have the gear for that, it's intimidating, but freaking hook you up with like a little kit. A high vibe kit. Better than just the basics. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to have a good time. So, I mean, somehow bridging that out of the festival experience is a fun little, you know, it's, we're still working on how we can parallel it. But taking some of the vibes that we're trying to curate and like, you know, that we all get and are inspired by by the festival because it's bigger than like our ideas. It's everyone's input. It's everyone's, you know, explosion of creativity. But take that and put it in these other arenas like a river trip. Like how do we do that? That's just a fun idea. Yeah, but it starts with these seeds, you know, like, like, that's how all this started. So, it's like, that's what's inspiring about talking about these little things because you never know where it can go. Consciousness sort of works like that. It has to start in the ether and then into thought and then into, you know, we speak it into reality and. Yeah, we're blessing. Amplify it together. And I said that to the end of the week and about the stage where I was like, I was like, it's all a vibration span on something like, but I was like on a serious way. It's like, it's like, it's just amplifies our consciousness and like the stage is just like this alter of that. And I look it that way. Absolutely. Yeah, just to like kind of keep those vibes shooting out of that thing out there. Shoot out of it. Oh, your brain or? Same thing, you know. Yeah. Your brain is your own personal stage. Yeah, I mean, it is, but it is vibration though. Yeah. You're putting down to like an electromagnetic pulse. We had to get to a little bit of a hippie talk, right? Yeah, every time you get it. Yep. It all sums somehow magically comes together and that's no small feet and it definitely comes from a lot of faith for me and is a very spiritual thing, you know. And that's a big part of it. Yeah. And that's something else that people kind of underestimate. You know, you think it's a logistics thing. You think it's a music thing, but it is a spiritual thing. And an alignment thing, you know, if you're, you know, like we bring it back to like mental health, just like finding alignment within yourself. And the universe around you, I think that's important. And you kind of, you give more value to yourself and your ideas when you do that too. Yeah. Yeah. And have faith. Yeah, it works out, man. Come along on the journey with us. Well, it sounds like we're going to again be on the lookout, you know, for when we start talking about that, you know, we need got, I got to get through the rest of this, this little tour run. We got Mountain Music Festival coming out, which I'm really excited about. I always want to go there. It's really cool. I hope you do something else extreme while you're there. Yeah, me too. That's right. That's right. Yeah. The only downside is I have a lot of time, but we run the late night stage. So it's like, I just have to stay up all night. You want to wake up for rapids, I guess. It's a great way. Yeah, yeah. Chili water, man. Chili water. Way to wake up. Yeah, so I think that's all I really got on my head. I feel like this is good talking and I feel really grateful. I feel like inspired after, after all of the time here and refueled. Yeah. As much as I'm tired. Yeah, I mean, just a throw in just like just where it like I said, like credit or credit is due. Like so many people lend a hand and really, really stepped up this year more than anywhere. Come on, shout them out. Shout them out real quick. I don't. I mean, I'm going to forget. It's okay. There's going to be people for debt. I'm going to make a very thoughtful Facebook post. All right. Look out for the Facebook post. Yeah, there's just so many moving parts. Yeah. I felt bad. I threw my Facebook thing up yesterday. It's funny to talk about it like this, but you know, you just, I was like, I need to get something up. I wanted to do it now. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm pretty cursed by and with. This is the more coherent thoughts coming. It's true. Yeah. But shout out, Carl, look out for the photos. He's been dropping them. Oh, and also like just, I mean, the forgot, like not the forgotten pieces, but just the pieces that you don't really necessarily think about in the production, like, and the site stuff. Like just like the, how about the visuals this year? Oh, yeah, shout out, spiral out. It's so great to work out with them for years. You know, they just keep getting better and better every year and pushing me. Yeah. And I've taken a lot of weight off my shoulders because it just looks so good already with what they're doing. And that's something I never really like thought about. I thought that was just part of production. And like, you know, that would come with like an all in productions crew. But Aaron and Mikey crush it. Yeah. They are, yeah, check spiral out. Mikey really knows how to use a ladder. Let me tell you. I learned this weekend. He does some other cool shit. He does some other cool stuff. Well, yeah, Aaron just the creative genius with that liquid light stuff. And yeah, I mean, and if you're another producer out there, look into them because, yeah, you should look. You should get them for your shit. But don't steal too much from us because high value assets there. And just like sight crew, honestly, this is a wet, wet weekend and mud control. Yeah, big shout out to Jenny and Tyler and JJ and all those guys just pulling it together. I know tensions are high for a few times just like with a amount overwhelm. I got soaked. Yeah, no, we all did. And then like we had some new coordinators on to that like it's that trial by fire. You're in it. You know, on a tom took on a huge, huge, huge task. Fender coordinating is like no easy feat. And there's nuances and like just put a lot of personalities in it. And to deal with people that people aren't happy with something and you get the brunt of that when that's your position. It's their business and they're invested in it. So like you're going to deal with those emotions. But they handled it like rock stars. But you build skills and know how to like the more you go through that and learn how different people's personalities are. The more that like you know how to do that the next time. And as hard as that is in the moment, it's you know it's good for you to deal with different types of people. And to work really hard and work a little bit too much and overwork. You know you get used to it because it gets better and it's just not for the faint of heart some of this stuff. Like it doesn't feel good to delegate stuff that you know sucks. Yeah, so then you take it all on back. It's hard to ask for help, you know, in those situations. And you also want to know it's done right. And so it's trust. It's trusting in the right people. Right. We have a wood stage this year. I like that. Yeah. That just making that a safe place, a cool place with all those cool lights. Like I was stoked about. Yeah. That was a cool vibe back there. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out Rubik's pub. I wanted to say that too. That's like some of these things that happen like from just like a thought to this. Like I ran into Vanessa in the bar at the the fun house when I was just randomly home visiting my family. And like she's just like was talking about how she really wanted to be here. I was like I think the lineups full because you had already been sending me things. And then that kind of came about through that in a way. Like we like I was like they really want to play let's create a stage for them. Back there. And then it kind of like just like happened. I mean, we've been wanting to do it for years, but that was the seed that was just how the seeds happened. You know, and like I don't know they create such a vibe they've been here every year. And we're really grateful for all the bands that have been here every year. shout out to Uncle Stump for bringing in some extra lights over the weekend and like really blowing up that late night set that was incredible. It's hard to do, shout, like you want to list off on the set. Oh, it's fine. It's fine. There's so much. There's so much. Yeah, everyone contributes so much. Yeah, and that's the beauty of a festival. That's why they do it. Brother Bear, you've been here, like every year we had some good conversations where like you played with Bob on that one year and it was, that was one of my favorite sets of music I've played in my life. Which is on YouTube, you can watch the Boba set. Yep, yeah, yeah. That was like the brother bear headed at the end. Yeah, that's when things were like really like taking form and it's like Brother Bear just has a way of embodying the sentiment and like the human condition overall like that. Yeah, fine Brother Bear's music and follow. Natalie Brooke, I saw Flo Jam. She came up that year. I was like, that was a one band when I was like, I get to book one. I was like, Natalie Brooke was my one band and they've become like just such good friends and family and it means so much to me to see them like have like taken off around the region because it's like that's the way I'm trying to think about it. It's like bands that I meet along the way to like it would be healthy for them to break into this market. And she's just crushing it. Love you Natalie and Nestor and everybody at Blue. Yeah, we got we got a Uncle Kunkel up this year which was great. Yeah. I got to even pick a little bit with them. That was cool. Yeah. But yeah Nestor also kind of helped be like by text and me being like, I want to play and it's like that really brought that wood stage together. Let's put them three o'clock in the afternoon first and then we'll let you know. It's cool. And yeah, there's just there's just a lot of good and a lot of great great music and I've found a lot through it all. And lots of come. Yeah, and a lot to come. I mean, you know, let's leave it maybe on this realm like, you know, we're five years in. We are just getting started. Totally. And we're like, you know, when we feel like we're getting burnt out or like the wear and tear and all the gear and everything and just ourselves and our bodies like, you know, we've been through it all but we are just getting started with these collaborations and these ideas. It's really exciting. I mentioned John, this is my little seed when I was talking to John Kimmock and I was like, we've been wanting to get your dad here for years. And he said, he said, he said, I'd love to. So I don't know. It'd be really cool. Yeah. I mean, my drums are. What can we get to reunite next since it's kind of become a theme too of like getting bands that haven't played in a while that are not like miss a little bit of getting that beautiful family nostalgia vibes and getting something special that you're like really anticipating. That's just part of the magic though. It's all going to come together. And if you were like here since day one, we appreciate you. Obviously, there's changes and we can't fit everybody every year as we build things in. So it's like, you know, it's all happening, but just I'm excited about. Yeah. The biggest thing I could say for folks that want to play or get involved is just like get ideas to us. You know, like, you don't think big, you know, if you're here and you see something that could be improved and that you could help improve it on, you know, like you know, build upon an idea. Let's send it. So that's explore ideas. We're all trying to brainstorm and collaborate as much as possible. Yeah. It's definitely a collective vision and a common goal that we're trying to achieve. So everyone does really have a voice and a common flame. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. It's a big problem solving thing. So let's solve it together and we'll help each other out. I'll make sure to put different resources in whatever this forms into. This is like my guinea pig episode, but it felt like the perfect little little talk to kind of start with you since we've been through a lot and we don't get to talk like this. I feel like we always want to talk and sit down like it kind of just happens. Like we don't hang out. We just throw a festival together and we see each other at shows and have like just brain. Just try. Yeah. Brain a hour long conversations here. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, for sure. We talk by like, you know what I mean? We don't get to like sit down and person like this. So that was very sweet and grateful. And it's kind of like hopefully like the fire in this little creative endeavor of me just being able to sit down and tell the story of friends to inspire each other because people inspire me. You know, like I love folk music and storytelling and hearing that. I love reading musician autobiographies and it's kind of my, I don't know. I just love that so much. So it's like that's the intention between some of this and people that don't really get the platform to tell it. But I really feel proud of what we've done here. So like really helped me follow my dreams and I think we've become like a real, real little thing. The story's worth telling. So hopefully you guys enjoyed listening to that out there in the ether. And yeah. We'll see you soon. See you next year. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Well, yeah. All right. So there you have it. That's the conversation with Kenny. Hope you guys enjoyed the first episode of set break podcast with yours truly Chad Brown. Grateful for all y'all listening and excited to see where this thing goes. I have another episode ready to go, but I'm just kind of going to weave this one, be the pilot, see what the response is and gauge my energy, try to get a couple more interviews under. I got a long list of people that I could interview. I just really got to tie it together, but mostly just wanted to get this episode about Pine Ridge out, get the pilot together and spread the word about Pine Ridge this year. We put a lot of work into it. There's a lot of community coming together to make it happen. This year we got a whole new staff. We didn't really have staff before. So there's a lot more infrastructure going into it. There's a lot of effort into the lineup. And yeah, check out the new website, Pine Ridge Music Festival.com. Jesse put that together. We talked about that in the episode there. So cool to see how that vision came to life and where it continues to go. Kenny's a wonderful person. They've been a dear friend of mine for years now and it was really nice to sit down and have that conversation with them and move them forward. I'm really looking forward to seeing you guys all at Pine Ridge this year. So yeah, again, spread the word. Give thanks and I'll see you soon. Cheers.