Episode 1: GuruBir Singh and Gur Siri Kaur (1974-1992)

I am now recording and so I want to say welcome to the first episode of the uncomfortable conversations podcast. The untold stories of the 3H.O. Kundulini Yoga community. I am your host, Guru Nishan. I was inspired to start this podcast because I was born and raised in the 3H.O community in Phoenix, Arizona. And although in my teenage years I began to migrate away from the lifestyle and the religious aspects of our community. I never migrated away from the people and the people have always remained to the heart. And I've traveled around and lived in communities all around the world. And this community matters to me and the people of our community matter to me. And so the stories of our community matter and breaking the silence of our community matters to me. So I want to share the intentions that I have for this podcast and I'll share them at the beginning of every podcast. Number one, to break the veil of silence that is long permeated and continues to strangle the 3H.O. Kundulini Yoga community in the name of neutrality. Number two, to validate and help clarify the complex feelings of those who have joined this lifestyle, were born and raised into it and or have practiced or taught Kundulini Yoga. Number three, to encourage actively listening to uncomfortable conversations from our community as a revolutionary act of self and collective healing. Number four, to let survivors know that we see them, we believe them, we love them, and we will fight for their truth to be addressed. Number five, to let teachers who are denying gaslighting or spiritually bypassing know that what they are doing is willfully ignorant and retraumatizing victims. Number six, to stop the perpetuation of gaslighting and victim shaming by naming it for what it is. Number seven, to dismantle internalize shame, guilt, toxic positivity and gas light and light washing mentality. Number eight, to honor all of the parts of ourselves that have been forgotten or silenced. Number nine, to honor every body that has come through our community, named and unnamed. Number 10, to encourage people to do their own research, process their own emotions, get somatic therapy and other support as needed, draw your own conclusions and become critical thinkers rather than just blindly follow anyone. Please remember that your story matters. Please share it when you're ready. We're here to listen and support you. So our first guest today and our first episode, I want to welcome. Good to be our sing and good to see your car. They will tell their story and they first met at the Sonoma State University where they earned their bachelor's degree in 1972 and 1973. They received their names from Yogi Budgeon in the Honolulu, Ashram in 1974 and married in 1975. They lived in Los Angeles and in Northern California before graduating, quote, graduating 3H0 in 1991. They have two children and four grandchildren and are currently retired. So I want to welcome you to the first episode of our podcast and I want to first of all to say I got in contact and connected with you when I heard your story on the Zoom call and being a child of the Dharma hearing your call hearing your story kind of had a memory or a ripple effect that happened to me where it was like, whoa, that was a familiar story. I've never really quote heard the details, but I knew it had kind of like permeated the air waves of our community in the 80s. So for me, it was quite an epiphany and that's why you being willing to share your story even though I know it was a long time ago and you left a long time ago. I'm really happy for it. Why is it important to you that the story is told right now? Well, first I want to thank you. Your intentions are just fantastic. And of course it all leads to self empowerment. And while you're reading all of this and putting together a podcast and this format and the. I'm sitting here going boy, wouldn't this have been nice back in 1992. I'm happy to be the support. The reason this is an important we've been asked to before to tell our story. Yes, it was a long time ago. But we do remember in when we did live on Bruce Road that so many different times, you know, in the ashram, everybody loved everybody in the community. We, you know, we worshiped together. We did our son is together. We went to class together. We watched each other's feet going into the good war and we served each other for shot. And then all of a sudden we would be told, oh gee, that person betrayed me. They're no longer welcome and they're gone. And whatever you do if they show up, don't let them in the door. And then nobody ever knows what ever happened to those people. We just never guessed that that would come to be our term, our turn as well. So we've had several people go, what happened? Where did you just disappeared off the face of the year? No, we didn't. So that's why we're sharing our story. No, there's a story to be told. Right. So thank you. I'm really, I'm really happy you're here to share. As a part of every episode, I've asked every guest to share a song that represents it's who they are. So I'm just to do this little intro into into the song that represents their story. And I'm going to let go to piercing get right into their story of their time in 3H and their abrupt departure. And then we'll go to the next one. All right. Thank you for that. As you mentioned, you know, we started an awful long time ago in the into 3H and actually very fourth through H.O. And the world of yogi budget and Kunaliyoga in the awesome life. So here's our story of what we've called the name graduation. And here's the graduation story. So April 30th, 1992. I was arrested and transported to jail. My arrest was on the evening news on television. Front page of the morning newspaper. As a result, I lost my business. My wife lost her job. Our children were bullied in school and we lost our house. We were 18 years of being beloved son and daughter of the series things off overnight. We were exiled from the world of yogi budget. And we were just exiled from that entire world. That's a short version. So here's a little more detail into that. And we went down to the first road. We went down for one of the springtime celebrations. It was a great time and. Can you date this? Can you let us know what time period? And can you also kind of like give us a little history of joining 3H.O. In 1970, whatever. Okay. I can do a little. Okay. So joining 3H.O. Well, here's what's got to know about before 3H.O. in our life here in America. There were no computers smaller than a refrigerator. And they certainly were not privately on. There were no cell phones. We had public pay phones scattered throughout the community. And on the landline at residents and work. There was no internet, no Google, no Facebook, no Twitter. Social media was a 17 inch to 21 inch television. We had five channels. A newspaper and radio. And we had a broadcast on tellers and evening news of radio stations on November 22nd, 1963. The assassination came into our living room of John F. Kennedy, the 35th president. April 4th, 1968. Martin Luther King was assassinated. on the evening news. April, June 5, 1968, Robert F. Kennedy, the president's brother was assassinated. We watched that in our homes on television. The Vietnam War was going on. The draft was sent out of people, and my generation were drafted. There were 58,220 USA casualties, mostly my age. The peak year was 1968 with 17,000 casualties, then up to 1,000 body bags a week. We're returning to the United States. On May 4, 1970 Kent State, massacre at the University of Kent State, the National Guard, the Ohio National Guard, shot nine students killing four. Coast to coast, there was a major, major nationwide disconnect between parents, generation, and young adults. I mean, the disconnect was just unbelievable. So, a yoga ashram, it felt like an oasis. Young adults close an age, no drugs out of a hall or unmarried sex and mandatory long hair. Well, my hair was already long. Holesome, healthy, organic, lactobedudetarian lifestyle, everyone was involved in learning and teaching yoga. So, this just felt like an oasis, moving into a ashram life. I can remember going through that door and meeting people and having the community, it was just wonderful to have escaped and gotten out of all that turmoil. And of course, everything just got built from there, but like I said, we were all doing yoga together and making yoga together and doing all this. So, that's what led up to really going and getting involved and going and moving into a yoga ashram was kind of walking out in the 60s, walking out of the turmoil that was on coast to coast. Very relevant for today. So, I want to thank you for for contacting us. Absolutely. And you know, there's a lot of music and songs from back then. That's one of the ways our generation communicated was through music. Yeah. And then we keep going. And in at the university, we would take yoga and meditation classes. We would do Zen, Raj and yoga, all different types of things and experiences. And that was also the introduction to finding peace within. We started connecting with that inner self in a way that brought about much more of a equilibrium imbalance in our lives when we were seeing all this discourse around us. So, it was really beautiful. So, moving into an ashram felt like the extension of that it also felt like we were going to then be able to go out and share these types of tools to find a place that was relevant and peaceful and self empowering. That's what at least for me, that's what spoke to me. So, you're living in the Hawaii ashram for how what year was that? No 74 to 81. 81, then you end up in LA? Correct. And then they're in LA. And then like give us the context. So, then what happened before this whole or situation and who you watch people as you talked about, watch people kind of get oxercised and kind of get shunned and then you don't know who they are and where they're at and saying there's no internet. So, there's no way to find out what's happening but then what happened what was the story of what was happening with you before whatever happened? Well, my life on Proust Road, I was a commercial industrial electrician. So, I worked outside of our community and communities a nice word but I worked outside of the community. So, my involvement really was going to once a week yoga class that was taught by yoga budget and going to Goodwara on Sunday and then participating in whatever, what was our little zones turned to make Prushaad or our little zones turned to wash the feet as people came into Goodwara. So, like I said, I didn't work on Proust Road or in any of the businesses, I worked up four hours a week. I was out in the community. And Loran Grzari was just raising the kids. Well, I was really involved in the community on a daily basis. I taught yoga down at Goodwara on Dha Saj from every day at 10 most of the time. Of course, I did sodden in the morning, brought my children to sodden. Goodwara afterwards. Got home in time to make breakfast, get the children off to school, go back down and teach yoga class, read your bounties every day. That takes up a lot of time. Do save up, put together some of the programs that 3H I was putting together, including Oriental Beauty Secrets, prenatal and postnatal programs. I was working on that with in collaboration with one other woman. And we were really involved. So, unlike my husband, I wasn't working outside except for occasionally. I was pretty much immersed in the community. And even in the evenings that would be the lectures, you know, you'd budget would get, we would attend those. Or there would be the evening for sounds because Laura pretty much was immersed in the day-to-day life. And we were armored, RECs, we were ministers. Once the ministerial came along. There was a lot that we were participating in in a different way. Yeah, our time in Hawaii was always about the yoga and teaching yoga. That was the first, you know, eight years before that time came up. So then what happened? What led up to this arrest? Give us that. In April of 1992, we were in Los Angeles. And I saw a series of things I was talking about Karpalsing. And later Karpals me if he helped him and he was reorganizing the business that he was running for yoga budget. But he was in all that. Asked me if I could just help him out about a week max. And unbeknownst to me, that was the last time that would be the last time that I would ever have been in a conversation with my spiritual teacher of 18 years. And unknownst at the time, yeah, I just had no clue. Really had no idea. Everybody was in good mood in spirits in Los Angeles. And so when we returned to Northern California, about the, it was either the fourth day after we returned my office. And and grocery was in the office. And we had a head pop in. It might, you know, the office door and pop back out, pop in and look back. What's going on? Yeah, well, then all of us in my office filled with detectives. And the assistant street attorney or ADA, assistant district attorney comes in and all these detectives. And they make sure that my wire separated, they make sure that we're cornered so that we can't run out the door. And we just have no clue at all what's going on. And I asked questions by the ADA, that this is making sense to me, none of it. And the funny thing is, is while you're off this, the office telephone rang. And of course, they're not letting me pick up the phone or move. And the answering that picks it up. And it's Kier Paul saying, from what he was calling. And he's leaving quadrusting messages while five detectives in the assistant district are intently listening to the messages he's leaving. And of course, the plug the answering machine and took it with them. Well, I didn't know what was going on. I asked her if I needed an attorney because I just can't figure out where the listening is going, getting more intense, more intense. I don't have a clue. So the long story short is I went to my corporate attorneys and I just I walked in and he just looked at my face and he told my God, what's going on? I told, I don't know. And he goes, "Worry, I told them the little bit I'd I didn't know. I got five detectives in the ABA in the office. I get in there. Yeah. And he goes, are you being arrested? And I go, I don't know, but they're right behind me. And he got on a phone and called a criminal attorney. The detectives walked in his office and said, yes, we're, he's under arrest. And they handcuffed me. And they talked to, on the phone, to a man who was going to become my attorney. And they took me to jail. So that's how that started. That night, on the local news, breaking news on television is my case. This man's arrested. And I forget what they said I was arrested for because I didn't know what I was arrested for. She didn't know what I was arrested for. We're only hearing from the newspapers and the television. That's how we're hearing. In the morning, my pictures on the front page, and we've got to read the story to try to get an idea or a glimpse. We still don't know what's going on. All we know is, I got handcuffed and hauled away. That kind of messes things up a little bit. My business closed. My wife's an employer terminated her business and our kids were bullied in school. So it just kind of went downhill really fast. And I started, I called my spiritual teacher who's always told personally, on 1620 Bruce Rowley, he told both of us, look, if there's ever a problem, do not walk run, I will be there for you. Well, there was a problem. So I called, he's not taking your call. Okay, I sent letters, telegrams, FedEx, anything I could. He won't. Communication, I've never talked to him since then. He didn't want to take my call. A year later, I was told he doesn't want you to scream and yell at him. I wasn't going to scream and yell at him. But there was a rough lot at this beginning that I didn't know. I was a little naive on what the heck was going on and not knowing the time that, yeah, he and Karpal knew something was going on with their business, which was the Canadian lottery scam. And somehow they just kind of, well, let's go stick, go to birthing in a minute. Let's go stick him in this and see what happens. But. - Lorana, can you explain the part where like you're on the outside, he's arrested and you like go down and like act like you know what you're doing. Remember that part? - Yeah. - I want you to share. So first of all, I just want to say this is an extremely traumatic situation that happened to us at the time. And when the raid happened, I first want to mention that, it's a shock because first of all, always the element of surprise. You're not seeing it coming. It's one thing if you knew somebody was coming to arrest you or talk to you, but not a clue. So the traumatizing event that got, that sparked all of this was that raid, that raid. And I will call it a raid because that's what it was. Our office was infiltrated. We were separated as my husband said. And we were both drilled with tape recorders on. They're trying to get information and get proof of what had come down the pike. And honestly, whereas innocent as could be, we have no clue what they're talking about because we thought in our minds, we're doing a favor for our spiritual teacher. That was all we knew. Anyway, back to your question or your thoughts. Once my husband was arrested and taken to jail, I knew that, or I believe that the truth would have to prevail. That was what I was holding within myself. I said, somehow, the truth is going to come out eventually. I didn't know how, but I was holding on to that. So one of the things I did was dressed into what I call street clothes, which is just normal clothes. But I was in a professional suit. I was out of bona, which for me was unusual at the time. - How do you feel? - Yeah. So I'm in a professional suit with an attaché looking very much like a corporate American person. This is what I'm telling myself. I took my hair out of my turban and curled and really, go on down to the county courthouse, go inside and show my ID as if I belong there. I had, by the way, I had no clue what I was doing. I just was determined to figure out what this case was about. And I was very focused. I was very one-pointed. And I had a tremendous amount of faith that there was going to be some revelations that would prove my husband was innocent, but that I wasn't going to be a bystander. I was going to be a participant in making sure that he was proved innocent. My children were young. I, you know, our whole life was at stake here. So I go down to the courthouse, I go in, I go to the back of the open, swing open the doors and walk right to the back where all the files are. Just acting as if I've done it a million times when honestly I'm using my intuition to figure out where are these files, how am I going to do this? And I go in, I'm looking through all the cases of all the people who've been arrested, and I finally find my husband's case. And it's way down on the bottom of this huge, almost like a book case that's from the ceiling to the floor of all these cases, case files. And I find his, and I open it up. And out, first of all, I see that it's his name and what he's being charged with, which is a mind-blower, like fraud and embezzlement and all these things. And I'm like, what is going on? You know? - As a man. - When I went to jail and they're doing the intake, the guy asked me, okay, so what are you being arrested for? And I told him I, I told him no. - They never told us? - I don't know. But that's when she's over doing all of this that probably just took minutes, but she's figuring it out. I didn't even know what I was doing. Nobody told me what I was arrested for. - How I wish we'd had cell phones that I could have taken pictures of all these documents and everything. Instead, I did zero-oxic couple copies of them. - What did you see? So you opened up the folder and then what did you see? Out poor letters, letters, like 20 to 30 letters. And I'm looking at these, what is this? And I'm opening them and I'm finding that various people in the Dharma have written letters stating that my husband is the mind. - The ringleader. - The ringleader of this endeavor. - Mastermind. - These are people in the Dharma that we raise our children with, that we go in worship with, that we all trusted each other and pretty much grew up together kind of, you know? Were they leadership in the circle around YB? - There were some that were in a circle, but a lot of them were just everyday mom and dad, some get members who had written these, I will say most of them work from women from women's camp that I was told later that he had gone to women's camp and told these women to write these letters. So they fall out, I'm reading each one and I'm just like honestly devastated. Like it's such a reality reframe. I'm looking at this going, this makes no sense to me. How can these people that I know, these aren't just acquaintances, that people I see everyday be writing letters that my husband's a mastermind behind some illegal activity. And they're writing it and sign the canada. - Yes. - The canada, the canada, what they were monitoring, what the FBI was monitoring? - Yeah, the letters said that I was a mastermind and that Kapal was duped. - Was duped by my husband. And I'm thinking, this is really interesting, you know? Like just one more layer of trauma. So we've already got to the trauma of this whole thing. And now the very community that we have devoted our lives to be a part of. is actually writing letters without, I knew they had absolutely no proof or no knowledge of what had really happened because we knew that we had nothing to do with it. So I'm reading these letters and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, now he's got people that are vouching that saying that they know firsthand that he had committed these crimes. So now we've just raised the ante on his chances of being sent to federal prison, which is what was supposed to happen. And down the road will tell you, but it was supposed to be between like eight and ten years of his life that he was sentenced, would have been sentenced to, he wasn't. The point is, I'm shocked, I'm reading these letters and I've got no way to copy them, no cell phone, no. We didn't have that effect then. So I'm just trying to take notes and get as much information as I can and went back to the lawyer to my husband's lawyer with all this information. And this is how my husband's lawyer figured out what it was going on because up until then the police had not told us the DA would not give us the details. We didn't know what the heck was going on. And Yogi Bajun wouldn't speak to us after having free reign for almost twenty years of any time they need to come to see me when we live in LA. No appointment necessary, let them in. I mean, that was the relationship that we believed we had with him all those years. We could walk in any time and speak with him without an appointment. And now all of a sudden, persona non-grave. So I took that info to the lawyer. The lawyer was grateful because he gave him something to go on so that he could start building a case that proved that my husband was innocent. But yeah, that was my day where I played detective and was in disguise. And I said, there is no way I'm with the suit. Yeah, there is no way I'm letting my husband take the fall for whatever this thing is. So I do what a pure heart he had and what a great guy he was. And my children were my children's father. I couldn't let anything happen. So then tell us about what the lawyer case, what the lawyer was able to pull together and so yeah, so they because I had an attorney and the attorney called the police, they let me out on my own reconnaissance. He asked me and my wife to please, I'd never met him before, come to the office. It was two days after my arrest. And as soon as I got there, he just kept asking me. He wanted to know exactly what my, if I knew who Guru Judcing was and what my business with Guru Judcing was. And I told him, well, I could identify and I could point him out in a crowd, but I'd never really talk to him. And he questioned me several times because he's never, my attorney's never met me. He doesn't know if I'm guilty in a center, whatever it is. And then he spends his computer around and right there on his computer, he has Guru Jud's arrest. And the whole thing about the smuggling incident. And my attorney still doesn't know me from Adam or what my involvement is. But he got on top of everything. Later the ADA told me he was actually the best attorney in the county that I could have possibly have gotten. But so for, but he told us, he says, look, when you go, he asked us, do you have any pets and we said, our dogs, specifically dogs. And we said, yeah, we got two German shepherds and he goes, well, here's what I'm going to tell you. The police are probably going to raid your house. And when the police come to raid your house looking for evidence, it's probably going to be either one or two o'clock in the morning. And they're probably going to shoot your dogs. So just be prepared for that. You're going to break down the door. And they're going to tap your phones. You know, they're going to look for evidence. So we're scared to death. My God, we never heard of anything like this. And I mean, this is all within hours and a couple of days where our life was just going along normal as it had for 18 years. And so we go home and grocery picks up the phone. And she hears somebody on the other end telling, yeah, so connect the red wire to the green wire and the yellow wire to the blue wire. She literally picked up the phone while the police were tapping our lines. That's how primitive it was back then. So the FBI, I found out later that this just happened after Rodney came. So the FBI all down to Los Angeles, because I was the first one to be arrested. And they wanted to incarcerate me. They wanted to transfer everything down to Los Angeles. And I would be the one in jail. And the FBI told the Northern California, yeah, we're a little busy right now. In the middle of this Rodney King thing. So no, you keep him up there. And we'll eventually transfer our guy up there. Everything happened so fast. The Yogi Budgeon left immediately for New Mexico not to return to Los Angeles for years. Kierpoll was arrested at a bank taking $600,000 plus dollars out of the bank. And again, my attorney told me that I was arrested for a grand theft larceny for the running the Canadian lottery. And which I had no, nothing about. So let's speed this up five months. So five months go by. And I'm told that they're going to drop the charges. But I have to agree to sit down with a meeting with the detectives and the ADA. Well, okay. So anyway, they figured out that Kierpoll and Yogi Budgeon knew what the hell was. They knew what they were doing. I just kind of got stuck in here because I had no money. I had no knowledge. I was guilty of being really stupid. Yeah, I was. But I honestly, when I saw the series things I'm talking, I just blindly trusted all of that. And I had no idea that this was going on. But she started out and made it very clear to me that this organization had, had organized leader in others. And that amongst this was an organized crime element, an element of organized crime in businesses. And that honestly didn't look any different to them than the organized crime family in Chicago. And she went on to explain to me and apprised me of different businesses that they had just investigated for five months, what those individuals running those businesses had concluded. They also explained to me that there were two murders, unsolved murders of members of THRHO, let's see, Dharma Brotherhood. And she gave me a little bit of information on that. But after really laying out this organized crime element of the family, she asked me, is there actually said, and these were her words, our investigation takes everything to one handshake away from Yogi Budgeon. One handshake, everything in our investigation takes us to one handshake away. Can you close that gap? Would you please cooperate and close that gap? And I told her, I can't. I really wasn't involved in that part of the organization, that part of the family. That's not the part that I was involved in. I just, I'd never worked in any of that. I wasn't privy to that circle. One of the things when she was describing the family they investigated, she said it was interesting to them that certain members were, especially the people that were involved in the business end of this. They kind of saw the yoga as a side show of what was going on. But there were certain people on Proust Road that seemed to wear very nice silk clothing and they drove very nice cars, Mercedes and Lexus, and they all slept in brass beds. And that there was another element on Proust Road that wore whatever they could sew themselves. And they slept on the floor and they drove whatever they could afford. And they just couldn't believe it and to be honest with you, she was explaining and trying to draw their version of what they would call that day of cult. But. - This is the real, this is the lady from the FBI. - No, this is the assistant district attorney. This is the assistant attorney of California. - Yeah, this is of the county. This is the assistant district attorney. That's who arrested me. - But they were working with the FBI. They were working together. - Yeah, and all of this. - Because it was interstate building and they had been building it up and they're now informing you of this. Like, whoa. - They figured out. - All different states were involved. - They figured out that I was guilty and that'd be a dummy. And I didn't see it coming and I should have known better. But honestly, I trusted my teacher of 18 years. And. - I think her description is so poignant because it's such my lived experience. There was definitely this haves and have-nots and the yoga, yoga, peasantry, and then kind of like the higher. And just for an outsider like a DA or the FBI to study a group, let's say a high demand group or a called or a spiritual mafia or a Chicago mafia, whatever. They're looking from the outside in and identifying pockets. And that's what you're describing, which is such an interesting thing to witness. - Oh, I'm a different- - They went in with hand cards and on Proust Road. They went into all businesses and look out file cabinets. Again, they spent five months on this. - Longer than that. And. - And there's other cases that trickle down from it. - What we haven't mentioned in this talk is that our lives were in a people for all those months. While we couldn't leave the disc, we would have moved probably because our life was over there. - Well, we didn't know. And we were ostracized not only by our immediate community but by all of Sikh Dharma too. So we really had no community. We had no friends anymore. We had our families didn't know what the world had happened. The point I'm making is we were bound by law to stay there because we had to keep going to court. - We were bound by our incomes gone now. - Yeah. We had to go in front of a judge. It was devastating. Change everything in front of a judge and many times. - I was someone back to court after this meeting with the assistant district attorney where they're explaining to me that it's like Mickey Mouse and if you're wearing Mickey Mouse ears, you're part of the Mickey Mouse Club. And yes, they were using the word cult and cult leader and cult followers. But this was all just. I mean, our bubble was burst just right now. And like I said, I can't get anybody to talk to me out of Los Angeles. I only got one call and that was from Ram Dosting the Attorney. And in the early stages, all he wanted to know for me is what is the FBI now? - Wow. - Well, shit, I didn't know what the FBI knew. But the point is we ended up going to after this meeting with the ADA and the detectives. They, I got someone back to a period court and she stood up and then the judge called my case and she said to the judge, "Your Honor, I wish to dismiss all charges against Buddha Bursing in the interest of justice." And he was floored. He was floored, but when the gavel came down, all charges were dismissed against me in the interest of justice. And Fort Kierpall was sentenced to San Quentin State Prison. But our life was, everything's gone, everything's shattered, everything's burst. Our family, we hugged each other. We put what little we had in a U-Haul trailer and drove away. My attorney said, "I've never had a client where let alone a family that doesn't know who they are, where they're gone, what they're gonna do with who they're gonna be and what they're gonna do when they get there." And he just, he was right. - It was right. (laughing) - Every night. And we just left and had, we just, it was 18 years, it was over like that. And we just, I just, we just said, "You know what? This is graduation." Well, you know, we graduated from elementary school, from a mental school, from high school, from university. Why wouldn't we graduate from this? So we weren't just gonna go, you know, totally destroyed. We just didn't have a clue who went where, why? - We made-- - The rest of our world was gonna go. - There's a few things we did very, with quite a bit of intention. One was that we weren't going to let this make our lives into being victims. We decided we are not victims. We are going to do our inner work, get clear within ourselves of who we are birthing now. Who, what is, what is our life about now? Who are we? We took our children, we all went to counseling. We did a lot of proactive things for our inner growth. And we knew, deep inside in the midst of the devastation, in the midst of being let down by the family, the, the sunget, our spiritual teacher, everything we knew that our relationship with creator could not be impacted by other people. And that was where we, that was our North Star. We kept that as our intention in everything as we move forward. We also knew that at least from my perspective, well, once everything gets taken away, there must be something really magnificent that's gonna take its place. And that was the way that I chose to look at it. Not to say that we weren't devastated, we weren't grieving, we weren't completely impacted. We weren't trying to figure out where we belonged, what we were going to do. I mean, we went through the five stages of grief. We always knew where to bow our heads. And honestly, spirit, source energy, whatever you wanna call that one creator was always there as long as we listened to that silent voice. And we just got real humble, real fast, and listened as we were guided and having no idea where we're going and what we're gonna do. And to be honest with you, when we look back, just years, a few years ago, when we looked back on all of this, we'd see it, you know, it would have divine. It was totally divine. There's no right, there's no wrong. Nobody's right, nobody's wrong. And yes, that's part of the song from the '60s. But my point is, everybody's path is different, but there's only one creator, and that same creator that breathes in me, breathes in all of my brothers and my sisters and everyone else. And my path, our path is not everyone else's path. Did we feel devastated? Well, yeah, was everything, I had no idea. I never planned on not being an omuripdari seek for the rest of my life. That's another story, after another day. Because I-- - Yeah, I think you know, carpet ripped out from underneath for your next story, you know, with what is. - And everything's happening now. And that sounds like a good idea. - Everything. And as we went through our life, we've had a wonderful life. It's just been fantastic. It really has. And so magical in such a divine way. We went on to-- - It was, it was, before we do that, I'm going to go ahead and ask that we take a kind of breather to tight your story, because it's quite an intense one. And I'm sure listeners are still kind of like wide-eyed and jaw open. And so let's kind of play your tune. And kind of like-- - Oh, yeah. - This is the recurrent that Guru Beer thing and go to City of Card have said, kind of, represents their story. So as listeners, let's go ahead and listen to this. and let this sound current vibrate through you and let their story really land because each of us that were around at that time know the network of things happening in different states and kind of these rumors that we're going around and each of us have a memory of that in our own forgotten and forgotten ways. So let this sound vibrate in. Here we go. (upbeat music) Start again. Start again. Here we go. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Yeah, what a beautiful choice. Thank you. Thank you. Sherith, that's why this music, why you share this music with us. - Because there's no words that can truly express our journey as honor it. And a little backstory is we were actually in the recording studio of Russ Freeman and the Ripping Tens at Russ Freeman's place when he was mastering the master to send off a production. - I love it. So that's who this is. - It covers all of the motions and all the moods and it just really represents the flow that we've had through our whole experience. - And that song is called Black Diamond. It's on now, Black Diamond, beautiful. So Sherith, what now? Like obviously that was 30 years ago. We thank you for giving us a snapshot in time for a lot of us that maybe have are still in the community that are listening. But tell us about where you're at now and kind of like how what you want listeners to know in terms of what's in the world that you're doing. - I would like to share one thing. And that is my career has been in hospice and working with people who are dying. And I've met quite a few people who've died and come back from death. And just when you listen to people who've died and they've come back, they no longer are afraid of death because they understand the universe in a much more expansive and universal way. And that's how I feel about what we went through. When you have everything taken and you're afraid and you don't know what's gonna happen, once you've had that happen and you realize that what comes next is even more amazing. You're no longer fear loss. You no longer fear letting go. You no longer fear change. And that's what I would say would be my message to people is when you're holding on for dear life, what you're doing is you're creating resistance between what is being, what you're being birthed into, what's coming next. And what the possibilities are. And so there's no need to be afraid. Don't be afraid. It's all perfect. We are always taking care of. The universe is taking care of us, whether we understand it or know it or not. That's my message. That's true. That's true. And my whole thing about where we are today in this today's date and the year and the roaring 20s. - Yes. - That, you know, I was really, as a guy, I was very comfortable in my little finite world. My little finite world. But the universe wasn't, was just too big. And I mean, I went, we went from a finite world to an infinite world. And it's just been phenomenal. What, how amazing it is. The hardest part in the very beginning for me was, once the uniform was gone, humans started coming closer to me. And I wasn't used to that. I'm like, whoa, whoa, what's going on? You know, this is new. And it's just been wonderful. It's been fantastic, you know? When we went to Colorado, the Native American community found us. We didn't find them. The grandmothers, the grandfathers. I would come home from my little humble job in a hardware store. And my wife's got grandmothers in the house and they're doing circles. They're doing pipe ceremony. They're doing drum ceremony. And I'm like, wow, okay, what's going on? They recognized us before we recognized, before I did. Recognized your sales. And that's just really a real microcosm of how it's just been ever since then. We're retired now. We've had our careers. We feel very comfortable one-on-one with people and helping people. And we're just overjoyed to the fact that today, there is so much support with exactly what you're doing and the intentions. Because they've got to be-- I mean, the intentions really make a difference. And when people even go through the five stages of grief, there's a phenomenal world waiting. It's absolutely amazing. And all pain is real. And what you're feeling-- what everybody's feeling-- if the times are feeling it-- are absolutely real. But it's all an opportunity to move through. And we totally understand and get that. Because as you can see, we've gone through from a very devastating traumatic event to an amazing world that was waiting for us when we didn't know it. So courageous, so powerful. And thank you for the courage and the time that you've taken to share your story and to be available in this way. Do you support people like in healing-- do you have clients that you see in your healing work in your retirement? Or is that something that you retired from? Well, we had a very successful, intuitive, gist-all, holistic, psychotherapy practice. We took everything of who we are, what we were, and applied it. And we've certainly had thousands of clients that we've assisted. We really like now to work with the-- because while being retired, we're certainly not looking for clients. However, we love working with people. And especially the people-- and here's what we understand and why we get pulled in. And totally want to tell our story. It's a lot easier for somebody who's going through this today. Somebody who today is going through these five stages of grief. And to talk to somebody who's already been through it, if you've lived through through H.O. if you were there, as we've said before, look, we don't have any access to grind. We don't need to call anybody out. We don't have any feelings, ill feelings towards anybody. We've had a beautiful opportunity to work through a lot of that. And we're certainly here to be part of the solution. And certainly not part of the problem, because we're just not going to get into, well, and all that and the other stuff. So we're here for those that-- and we totally trust creator. We know that those who creator guides to talk to us, it'll happen. Now, creator puts us together. It's just, it's, we smile and we trust the process because we understand that I listen. If creator, if all we had to do is pay attention and listen and go through our heart as opposed to this thing, 'cause if you leave it up to this, it's gonna screw it up every time. But if you just listen to here, okay? And then of course, here's where we come in. We help this get on board with this. And we all get to experience that love that's, it's just there anyway. So it's there for the taking. We just have to let it in. - Yes. Well, gosh, thank you so much. It's just been wonderful to hear and I wanna just share that the telling of this story is so important because I think that what a lot of people we not understand within the time period of George, there was just a lot of things happening. You kind of heard things through the grapevine that never really heard the real thing of what took place. You just put a version of the story and what we're starting to realize now is that every person telling their story is like a puzzle piece of a large tapestry that when we put it together, it supports all of us to feel, to remember, and to feel. As a song that we now get to go through this together. - Right. - Any more under a foam? - Yeah, so beautiful. Gosh, on that note, we got another song to take us out. So I'm just gonna go ahead and play that because it's obviously very after. (upbeat music) There we go. Wasn't very slow intro. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - So to one, I want to thank you and make first guess for being here. And this is uncomfortable conversations. The untold stories of 3HO Kundalini Yoga Community. I'm your host, Guru Nishan. You can follow me elsewhere at GuruNishan.com. I'm a Silver Vocator Alchemist and Breath Trainer. Helping you turn the pains of your life into the gold. Let's, we'll get talking soon. Thanks again for tuning in. And I thank you again to my guests. - Good to be your singing and thank you.